John Zerzan.net

Introduction

From A to Zerzan

Eugene Weekly 11/11/2021

The Essence of Time is Domestication

Interview 10/31/2021

Speaker 1: So when were it, it's actually a body of 1 from which these arguments come from. To that we have the writings of Freddie Palman, we have Derrick Johnson, Bob Black. Then, of course, Lal Abdul Rahim. And there are some authors indialso. I mean on the same line they have written their works way back 50s and 60s. They have been rediscovered, and some new authors, so part of that body of work is also. Now we are planning to apply it. Also, the history of India. And to open each and every question the basic questions, because right now we're facing a new. I mean we are visavi new set of technologies. To be precise, say artificial intelligence, automation and promises that are being made by the governments about, say, permanent basic income for everybody india too.

Speaker 2: On this.

Speaker 1: So that means. That means that everything everything which is central to our understanding and work notion of work, notion of time, notion of self, notion of nature, all these things are going to be redefined. So that's the juncture we thought that these questions have to be raised again, what do we think? How do we think, and how should we think about time? There is source resource, then they it come in. So whom else can we talk about these things? If not, then with John Jaja because his writings in order to know more about him I.

Speaker 3: Have shared two of his.

Speaker 1: Videos also in the chat in the chat. These two YouTube videos are also a good introduction to his work. And one of the first definitions of time that I read in his works was very simple. In his discussion with Derek Johnson, he. That time doesn't exist. Time does exist as rhythm as sequence, but time as a thread that goes into the events. And out of events at the same time, that time doesn't exist. It's only a creation of. Subdivision of Labor. After our domestication, the time as social resource that came. The same thing I read in the writings of Vikram Nanda. I mean his similar work is on the Donguri Kong tribes in Orissa. I mean how the ways David was introduced among this child people? Then he mentions, then he's. I mean makes this point is very crucial, he says. These domrIcones when they start working as police for the sahib from civilization. Then they notice that there is something called opportunity cost. That means they really. For the first time, that time can be wasted. So there's not something inbuilt in bot in the human. The nature that we noticed that time. Has to be. Saved, and this notion that poisons each and every relationship or say at micro level nasal level or at in long term or short term that not a single minute should be wasted. So this tyranny of time. We definitely will come to know more. Reward it. And also about how to stop this time. The time will be stopped only when let me remember this. A scholar will say that only when there is a community which is based at the center of the community is the say human relationship or our relationship relationship to the nature at the. Center of our life. Only then the time can be stopped, otherwise just inexorable March of time is to any of time. This crisis of time is actually crisis of civilization. And this has to be identified given a proper name and the terms that we use to describe the misery of urban Indian middle class and the future of the stress is actually around these key notions that key notions are. Time poverty and time prosper. By that we mean that normally we define middle class and it's indialso in other places. I guess that a person belongs middle class on the basis of how much does he earn? How good was his education and how good is his career? And the infrastructure infrastructure. But if you want to understand the misery of Indian middle class, then you have to understand that it is the time for working. I mean everything revolves around career or how not to miss and time the fear of fall is the driving is the key fear of the society and therefore. The only reserve is no other reserve than the carrier or the your carrier is only reserved, so that's why all these questions misery of middle class cannot be understood through old language. We need new concepts and new terminologies to understand why this crisis. So that was the reason behind we named this talk. I mean the topic of this talk is the essence of time is civilization and other way around. So this the background to the talk that. I wanted to mention. And then. On each and every 4th Sunday of every month, we are planning to organize stocks. As I told you last stock was by they were. OK. And the name of the. Topic was how shall we feed the. Billions after the collapse of industrial industrial civilization, that was the question that he answered last time one of the lines that I liked, he says that the best agricultural practices are mimicry of forest, mimicry of jungle. That's the best agricultural practice that he practices. Also that is far. So that was the answer given by Dipal Dev, not only through theory but also. Through practice. The next talk I mean today, is the third talk by John John John. The next talk will be given by Lailabdul Rahim from Montreal. We are lucky to have. Him here so she would also inform us something about the next topic. Provisionally, we and then name the topic that different ways of defining domestication. And did domesticate. So she will tell us something about her dog on the next Sunday in November, the last Sunday of November, and then we will move it, move it to the talk by John John. Leila, now you are most welcome to tell us about your topic that you are going to tell us. On the last Sunday of November.

Speaker 6: So hello everyone, hi John.

Speaker 5: Hey Leila.

Speaker 2: So and I see anti tech and here we are on zoom congratulations, I've mastered zoom during this last year so I'll be brief. Basically the past two years I was delving. In to archaeology. In Central Asia, Kazakhstan. Which is now. Basically deemed the. Oldest evidence of the domestication of horses. So I'm working on my on my next book which was on economics of civilization and wilderness and now this research is. Basically like great and hasn't been published yet, so I'll be sharing a little bit from that and a lot of my work on my previous. In my previous books and research on myths of civilization. So how civilization well in civilization? The institutions of knowledge production. Choose to define civilization in very positive and falsified terms. And so we cannot. We cannot liberate ourselves from from these bonds without really looking at the core. The underlying premises in these myths and what archaeology shows us that It’s all faults and what reality it now shows us. It's folks and basically, how do we step into the truth? This will be my talk short summary. Hope it makes sense so come and find out and ask questions.

Speaker 1: Knows what's the. Truth so we are looking forward to your truth. Let me know. On the last Sunday. Of November 2021.

Speaker 2: I was born in the Soviet Union and it was very keen on truth and Pravda, even though also not always very truthful.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting word in. Any case truth?

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, so now it's Johnston so most welcome John. After a long time. So now house is yours as you say.

Speaker 5: Yeah, after a lot of fooling around on my part, I'm sorry. Well, however remotely It’s wonderful to be here. Robbie Villas, my old friends and this really excellent. Well I just start out with some basics. This thing we called time. How did it become a thing? You know how did time consciousness reify signify? To become a materiality. This happened fairly recently. Not so long ago, there's really no evidence that there was anything to measure that we could call time. Now of course it stands over us. We're acutely aware of it, even if we don't articulate. I did it. And as Augustine said, in the 5th century, I know what time is until somebody comes and asks me tell to tell them what it is, and then he's rather speechless and. I'm paraphrasing that to somewhat well known line from him. Well, it's gathering momentum began, I think with domestication really. The history of alienated humanity is the history of time. The decisive estrangement from the Earth and from each other. Is that move to control that decisive epical shift? Away from taking what nature gives. To controlling nature. Domestication, also known as agriculture. It's also the birth of private property and. Quite promptly thereafter, civilizations. It's all about control. It's about making the Earth work. And I want to put in here a very key text. In my opinion, it's always been quite a lot of importance to me and that is from the later Freud. What is translated into English as civilization and its discontents. The original German, the literal. The name of it is actually. The disquieted culture. And a better translation into English would be domestication and its discontents. Because it's centrally about domestication. Not exactly or precisely civilization itself and the main thrust of it is, which makes this such an important and radical text is that when we. When we domesticate other species, we break a horse, for example. That's the way it's put in English. We tame another species. Those that are that can be domesticated or many that can't be domesticated but you. You establish a different nature. For it But in the case of humans. That doesn't really work very well the domestication. Is is an open? Wound it's a wound that doesn't heal. It's a crippling thing, and it's really the basic source of unhappiness. It's a machine for creating neuroses. We don't get over the trauma of domestication. As we live it every day and that's a profoundly radical thing for someone as bourgeois as Freud to say. But of course he. He wouldn't see the implications of that. That formulation well. Of course we can't get rid of civilization. That would be unthinkable. That was the. That's the unspoken part of it. But of course it can be thought of as something to get rid of. If you want to get rid of neurosis, want to get rid of unhappiness? That's precisely what you. Have to do. I think we can see. The end of the of an entire trajectory. We can make out the end of civilization, I think. Every civilization heretofore has failed, and now there's one globalized integrated civilization under the sign of technology and capital, and pretty much nothing outside its force field. Time and alienation are massive components of this force field. In fact, they're fundamental to civilization and to symbolic culture for that matter. This world of complexity experts specialists hierarchy. Is very much time written. There's nothing much more obvious than that compared to 99% of the span of human species which didn't have these social features. That is. When our existence took place in small scale face to face community. That has banned societies and hunter gatherers. Time is not an evidence in those in that largest period. In other words, though, we did have intelligence, by the way were cooking with fire a million years ago. We had we had a somewhat exquisitely fashioned. Stone tools, for example. This Acheulian handaxe, which dates from about a million years ago, and in Germany, by the way, a few years ago it was discovered. Long hunting Spears. Of the date from 400,000 years ago. Finely balanced crafted Spears, obviously for hunting large animals. And so forth. So this it wasn't. That certainly wasn't that people. Didn't have the intelligence to grasp. What we call times. And as tools make way for technology or systems of technology, our sense of time grows. It's imposed on us. Technology determines this growth. Civilization is a work machine, always more work and technology sets the pace faster, faster. That's exactly the bottom line there, I think and I think it's worth pointing out. We see these claims and I'm using. I'm using the concept of technology in a very rarefied. Answer I. I point that out. I think what we've what we're seeing is a eclipse of political ideology that claims the promises that are made in terms of politics. More and more that's taken over. It's really now the property of technology that makes all these promises and claims it's going to fix everything, right? Well, everything's getting worse, so that's probably the most fundamental lie. Technology will empower everybody. Well, we've never been so disempowered, progressively disempowered. That's another really obvious falsehood there. And how about all the diversity? The cornucopia of otherness that it provides. Well, we live in a more and more and more standardized world by the day. I mean, these are fundamental lies and the other one, of course is how connected we are. We're all connected now via cyberspace on our various screens. Well, the sad truth of it is, it's obvious that we've never been more disconnected. The machines are connected, but how are we actually connected? Well, I'm going to read a little bit here from the Peace of Mind called. What is it called? Yes, time and its discontents. And steal from Freud here a little bit. And back to some basic stuff. With time we confront a philosophical enigma. A psychological mystery. And a puzzle of life. Like not surprisingly, considering the massive reification involved, some have doubted its existence since humanity began distinguishing. Time itself includes, from visible and tangible changes in the world as Michael. Andy put it. There is in the world a great and yet ordinary secret. All of us are part of it. Everyone is aware of it, but very few ever think of it. Most of us just accept it and never wonder over it. This secret is time. Just what is time? Spindler declared that one that no one should. Be allowed to ask. The physicist Richard Feynmanswered don't even ask me, it's just too hard to think about. Empirically, as much as in theory, the laboratory is powerless to reveal the flow of time, since no instrument exists that can register its passage. But why do we have such a strong sense that time does pass intellectually and in one particular direction? If it really doesn't? Why does this illusion have such a hole for us? We might just as well ask why alienation has such a holdovers. The passages of time is intimately familiar. The concept of time mockingly elusive. Why should this appear bizarre in a world whose survival depends? And the mystification of its most basic categories. We have gone along with the substantiation of time so that it seems a fact of nature of power existing in its own right. The growth of a sense of time. The acceptance of time is a process of adaptation to an ever more reified world. It is a constricted dimension. The most elemental aspect of culture. Times inexorable nature provides the ultimate model of domination. The further we go in time. The worse it gets. We inhabit an age of the disintegration of experience, according to Adorno. The pressure of time like that of its essential progenitor, division of Labor fragments and disperses all before it. Uniformity, equivalent separation are byproducts of times harsh force. The intrinsic beauty and meaning of that fragment of the world that is not yet culture moves steadily toward annihilation. Under a singer under a single cultures wide clock. Power occurs association. Assertion that we are not capable of producing a concept of time that is at once cosmological, biological, historical and individual. Fails to notice how they are converging. Concerning this fiction that upholds and accompanies all the forms of imprisonment. The world is filled with propagandalleging its existence. As Bernard Aronson put it so well. All awareness wrote the poet Denise Levertov. Is an awareness of time. Showing just how deeply alienated we are in time. We have become regimented under its empire as time and alienation continue to deepen. Their intrusion, their debasement of everyday life. Does this mean? As David David Carr asks that the struggle of existence is to overcome time itself. It may be that exactly. That this the last enemy to be overcome. In coming to grips with this ubiquitous yet phantom adversary, it is somewhat easier to say what time is not. It is not synonymous for fairly obvious reasons with change, nor is it sequence order of succession. Have loves dog for example. Must have learned that the sound of the bell was followed by feeding. How else could it have been conditioned to salivate at that sound? But dogs do not possess time consciousness. So before and after cannot be said to constitute time. Somewhat related, are inadequate attempts to account for all. But inescapable sense of time the neurologist, goody, rather along the lines of content, described it as one of our quote subconscious assumptions about the world. Some have described it no more helpfully. As a product of the imagination and the philosopher JJC, smart decided that it is a feeling that quote arises out of metaphysical confusion. Mactaggart FH, Bradley and Dummitt. Have been among 20th century thinkers who have decided against the existence of time. Because of its logically contradictory features. But it seems fairly plain that presence of time is far deeper causes than mere mental confusion. There is nothing even remotely similar to time. It is as unnatural, and yet as universal as alienation. Chakales points out that the present is a notion just as puzzling and intractable as time itself. What is the present? We know that it is always now. One is confined to it in an important sense and can experience no other part of time. We speak confidently of other parts, however, which we call past and future. But whereas things. That exist in space elsewhere than here continue to exist. Things don't exist now, as scholar observes, don't really exist at all. Time necessarily flows without its passage. There would be no sense of time. Whatever flows, though flows with respect to time. Turn therefore flows with respect to itself, which is meaningless owing to the fact that nothing can flow with respect to itself. No vocabulary is available for the abstract. Explication of time apart from my vocabulary, in which time is already presupposed. What is necessary is to put all the Givens into question. Metaphysics, with the narrowness that division of Labor has imposed from its inception, is too narrow for such a task. What causes time to flow? What is it that moves it toward the future? Whatever it is, it must beyond our time, deeper and more powerful. It must depend as Conley had it. Upon elemental forces, which are continuing continually in operation. William Spanos has noted that certain Latin words for culture. Not only signify agriculture or domestication, but are translations from Greek terms for the spatial image of time we are at base time binders in Alfred Curves decencies lexicon, the species due to this characteristic creates a symbolic class of life. An artificial world. Time binding reveals itself in an enormous increase in the control of our nature. Time becomes real because it has consequences and this efficacy has never been more painfully apparent. Life in this barest outline is said to be a journey through time. That it is a journey through alienation in the most public of secrets is the most public of secrets. No clock can strike for the happy one, says a German. Passing time once meaningless. Is now the inescapable beat, restricting and coercing us? Mirroring Blind authority itself going? How determined the flow of time to be? The distinction between what one needs and what one has, and therefore the incipiens of regret. Carpe diem. The maximum councils but civilization. Forces us always to mortgage the present to the future. Tom aims continually. Toward greater strictness of regularity and universality. Capital's technological world turns its progress by this could not exist in its absence. The importance of time wrote Bert Bert Bertrand Russell's lies quote. Rather, in relation to our desires than in relation to truth. There is a longing that is as palpable as time has become, the denial of desire can be gauged no more definitively than via the vast construct. We call time. I am like technology is never neutral. It is as Castoriadis rightly judge always endowed with meaning. Everything that commentators like, they will have said about technology in fact applies to time and more deeply. Both conditions are pervasive, omnipresent, basic, and in general has taken for granted as alienation itself. Time, like technology, is not only determining fact but also the enveloping element in which divided society develops. Similarly, it demands that its subjects be painstaking. Realistic, serious, and above all, devoted to work. It is autonomous, autonomous in its overall aspect like technology. It goes on forever of its own accord. But like the visual marker, which stands behind and sets in motion time and technology, it is after all a socially learned phenomenon. Humans and the rest of the world are synchronized to time and it's technical embodiment rather than the reverse central to this dilemma. As it is to alienation per se, is the feeling of being a helpless spectator. Every rebel that follows also rebels against time and its relentlessness redemption must involve. In a very fundamental sense, redemption from time. Time is the accident of accidents, according to Epicurus. Upon closer examination, however, its genesis appears less mysterious. It has occurred to many, in fact, that notions such as the past, the present, and the future are more linguistic than actual or physic. So the Neo Freudian theorist lachan, for example, decided that the time experience is essentially an effective language. A person with no language would likely have no sense of the passage of time. Harry Wilson moving much closer to the point, suggested that language was initiated by the need to express symbolic time. Gossett argued that the system of tenses found indo European languages developed along with the consciousness of a universal or abstract. Time and language are coterminous decided. Derrida quote to be in the one is to be in the other. Time is a symbolic construct immediately prior, relatively speaking to all the others and which requires language for its actualization. Paul Valery referred to the fall of the species into time as signaling alienation from nature. Quote by a sort of abuse man creates time, he wrote. And the time was before this fall, which constituted the overwhelming majority of our existence as humans. Life as he is often, as has often been said. Had a rhythm but not a progressive. It was the state when the soul could quote gather the whole of its being. In results, words in the absence of temporal strictures, where time is nothing to the soul. Activities themselves, usually of a leisurely character, were the points of reference before time and civilization's nature, provided the necessary signals quite independent of time. Humanity must have been conscious of memories and purposes long before any explicit distinction. Distinctions were drawn. Among past, present and future. Furthermore, as the language dwarf estimated pre literate communities, far from being sub rational may show the human mind functioning on a higher and more complex plane of rationality than among civilized men. The largely hidden key to the symbolic world is time. Indeed, it is at the origin of human symbolic activity. Time on this occasion is the first alienation. The root away from Aboriginal richness and wholeness. Out of the simultaneity of experience, the event of language says Charles Simic. Is an emergence into linear time. Researchers such as Zohar considered faculties of telepathy and precognition to have been sacrificed for the sake of evolution into symbolic life. If this sounds far fetched, the sober, sober positive positive is Freud due to telepathy, as quite possibly quote the original archaic means to which individuals understand one another. If the perception and perception of time. Relate to the very essence of cultural life. The advent of this time sense and its concomitant culture represent an impoverishment, even a disfigurement, by time. The consequences of this intrusion of time via language indicate that the latter is no more innocent, neutral, or assumption free than the former. Time is not only as Conte said at the foundation of all our representations, but by this fact also at the foundation of our adaptation. To a qualitatively reduced symbolic world. Our experience in this world is under an all pervasive pressure to be. Representation to be almost unconsciously degraded into symbols and measurements. Time with the German Mystic Meister. Eckhart is what keeps the light from reaching us. Time awareness is what empowers us to deal with our environment. Symbolically, there is no time apart from this estrangement. It is by means of progressive symbolization that time becomes naturalized becomes a given is removed from the sphere of conscious cultural production. Time becomes human in the measure to which it becomes actualized in narratives is another way of putting it. The symbolic accretions in this process constitute a steadily throttling instinctive desire. Repressions develop the sense of time unfolding immediately away, replaced by the mediations that make history possible. Language in the forefront. One begins to see past such banalities as time is an incomplete, incomprehensible quality of the given world. Number art, religion make their appearances in this given world disembodied phenomena of refined life. These emerging rights, in turn Gurevich surmises, lead to quote the production of new symbolic contents. Thus, in encouraging time leaping forward. Symbols, including time of course now have lives of their own in this cumulative interacting progression. David brings the reality of time in the existence of God is illustrative. It argues that it is precisely times reality, which proves the existence of God civilizations perfect logic. While Ritual is an attempt through symbolism to return to the timeless state, ritual is a gesture of abstraction from that state. However, a false step that only leads further away. The timelessness of number is part of this trajectory and contributes much to time as a fixed concept. In fact, Bloomberg seems largely correct in saying. That time is not measured as something that has been present all along. Instead, it is produced for the first time by measurement. To express time, we must in some way. Quantify it number is therefore essential, even where time has already appeared as slowly more divided social existence works toward its progressive reification. Only by means of number. The sense of passing time is not keen among tribal peoples. For example who do not mark it with calendars or clocks. An original meaning of the word in ancient. Greek is division. Number when added to time makes the dividing or separating not much more potent. The non civilized often have considered it unlucky to count living creatures and generally resist adopting the practice. Sober chauffeur. In 1822, he noted the intuition for number was far from spontaneous, inevitable, but already in the early civilizations. Filmul reports one feels that numbers are a reality, having it. As it were, a magnetic power field around them. It is not surprising that among ancient cultures, with the strongest emerging sense of time, Egyptian, Babylonian, Mayan, we see numbers associated with ritual figures and deities. Indeed, the Mayand Babylonians both had number gods. Much later, the clock, with its face of numbers, encourage society to abstract and quantify the experience of time. Still further, every clock reading is a measurement that joins the clock watcher to the flow of time. And we have simply delude ourselves that we know what time it is because we know what time it is. If we did away with clocks, Challis reminds US objective time would also disappear. More fundamentally, if we did away with specialization and technology, alienation would be banished. The mathematizing of nature was the basis for the birth of modern rationalism and science for the West. This had stemmed from demands for number of measurement and connection with similar teachings about time in the service of mercantile capitalism. The continuity of number and time as a geometric locus were fundamental to the scientific revolution, which projected Galileo's dictum to measure. While it is measurable and make measurable, that which is. Mathematically divisible time is necessary for the conquest of nature, and for even the rudiments of modern technology. From this point on, number based symbolic time became crushingly real. And abstract construction. Removed from and even contrary to, every internal and external human experience according to Sheila Mosey. Under its pressure, money and language, merchandise and information have become steadily less distinguishable. And division of Labor more extreme. To symbolize is to express time consciousness. For this symbol embodies the structure of time. Clearer still is merleau's famous, somewhat famous formulation to understand the symbol and its development is to grasp human history in a nutshell. The contrast is the life of the non civilized lived in a capacious presence that cannot be reduced, be reduced to the single moment of the mathematized present. As the continual now give way to increasing reliance upon systems of significant symbols, language number art ritual myths. Dislodged from the now, the further abstraction history began to develop. Historical time is no more inherent in reality, no less an important imposition it. Than the earlier, less cohete form of time. In a slowly more synthetic contest, astronomical observation is invested with new meanings. Once pursued for its own sake, it comes to provide the vehicle for scheduling rituals and coordinating the activities of complex society. With thelp of the stars, the year and its divisions exist as instruments of organizational authority. The formation of the calendar is basic to the formation of the civilization. The calendar was the first symbolic artifact that regulated social behavior by keeping. Track of time. And what is involved is not the control of time, but it's opposite and closure by time in the world of very real alienation. One recalls that the word comes from the Latin Collins, the first day of the month, when business accounts had to be settled. Well, I'll leave off reading there and to bring it back, bring it into the present. There's a review of a brand new book. Called being a human. Adventures and 40,000 years of communication. By Charles Foster this can be found in the current issue of the Times literary supplement, the TLS of London. For October 15th. This wonderful. This really. A noteworthy book, and. It brings to the fore a question which I think is becoming more impressive. Is is really maybe coming to be a central issue? At least I hope maybe I'm clutching at straws here. But anyway, in terms of domestication. Let me just quote from this review. It gets to theart of. Of the whole picture. Certainly something I totally agree with. This from. The review, paraphrasing. A key part of the book being a human. Our woes started in the Neolithic period. The age of domestication when cereal and cow herding were discovered and humanity began to settle. It was then that we traded off for convenience and control our leisure time radically diminished. And we became slaves to the animals and the land that we sought to exploit. We lost our connection with nature and our intimate knowledge of the many different species with which were once so familiar. Priests curated stories strangled the mind and the imagination. Thoughts as well as sheep were corralled. That's wonderful. That's just a beautiful way to address this epical shift. In social existence. And at the same time, This why I think quite possibly we're able to put all of this on the table. Because, well. I think the key thing is we're seeing it start to collapse. In every area, at every level it's going South as we put it. In the West, it's really, visibly starkly failing. Civilization has not met any of the promises. All of the ruin is now. So visible and so deeply felt, I think all over the place. It isn't just some abstract question. It's the immiseration of everyday life. It's the ruin of the natural world. It’s all of it. I want to worry what's going into that. We all know about it. And at the same time another brand new book. It hasn't even come out yet, but I'm getting a copy from the publisher in order to review it for. The World Literature review. And this book. By David Graeber and David Wingrove, I think is significant at this point. It's called the dawn of everything. A new new history of humanity. So here's another way to put civilization the table, so to speak, from a rather opposite point of view. These these fellows from the left seek to really disabuse us of the notion that it really all started with domestication. That was the fundamental. Oh no, no, that’s not right. We got. It all wrong. And by the way, the things that I've pointed out and many others by this time before me and. And at the present time. This just standard anthropology. This just well known orthodoxy. Thisn't some anarchist making it up to serve an ideological purpose. Not at all. This. Just basic anthropology one-on-one. All we're doing is, I think, taking the obvious implications of that to the next level. The next step, as with the text from Freud. OK, if this really a hideous thing, the point is to get rid of it the point. Is to move away from it. So anyway, there'll be more to be said about this. I haven't yet read the book, so I'm talking out of school in a way, although I'm quite familiar with their point of view for some years now, they've they've been trying to. Put this out in their writings. They've been trying to argue that oh, no domestication civilization, cities, It’s all. Could be great it's really it's not a bad thing. This whole trajectory. No, it's we want to rescue it. That's it reminds me of the. Of the later Frankfurt school people who talk about enlightenment, the point isn't to get rid of it. The point is to fulfill it. You know, let's make. Let's make good, honest promises. Well, that is diametrically opposed to. The other point of. View which points out that this a suicidal path and we better get off it. Well, that's I think that'll do it. I think I've tried to sum up some of the basic stuff here and also point to the some of the brand new literature on the subject which is. You know, I think it's interesting in itself that these books are being reviewed. And the latter one. I'm talking about the Grayburn wind group wind grow book has been received. Interestingly enough, with approbation, people are very relieved. Because it seems to me. Well, there was a review in the Guardian last week in the Atlantic magazine from the US just currently here. And with such relief. Ohh, they're overjoyed at this book, which which tries to rescue civilization. Ohh, good, good. This what we want to hear. It's not so bad. Yeah, it can be reformed. Well, this where the battle lines are drawn right now. OK, I'll just give it a rest for now. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 1: So now of course, the questions are most welcome. You can ask your question directly, also because it's not such a huge group and right at the beginning I notice some questions addressed to Leila. But I mean, you can ask your questions directly if you have them. OK.

Speaker 2: I just wanted to add I was wondering. Well, first of all always sorry freshing and actually gives us hope to listen to you John. It's amazing in the madness of this whole chaos. And how people domesticate themselves and accept the lies? And I don't know honestly, they do it sincerely or insincerely or deviously or not. So it's it gives me strength, but we can get out of it and sometimes I lose hope. But you, you get us back on track. Thank you.

Speaker 7: Thank you.

Speaker 2: So I’m glad I was wondering if you were going. To bring up. The book. I had to look at it because people are going crazy about it and everyone is buying it the same like with Harare. I looked at it and I find it actually more than harari's dishonest. I find it really dishonest and I think with Harare. He seems to have heard this idea superficially, and just like in French, they say Pell Mell, like mishmash and to book quickly bestseller because it precisely, it's like superficial, doesn't doesn't question anything. With Graver I know he was familiar with real critiques, and my question is why did he ignore them? And because if he didn't ignore them, he would have to face where all these myths. Would lead us. And I'll rest at that but that's my opinion.

Speaker 5: Thank you very well. You know, I. I think I could be wrong here, but I think they're feeling threatened. These defenders of civilization. Know that what we're all talking about is a direct challenge to the whole progress of this model of history is the whole heritage. Of the left. This endless of progress for the capital P that they're all in favor of people like Chomsky and then these others, some of them. Like Graeber, they sort of had a conversion. You know about 20 years ago when there was the so-called anti globalization movement. He became anarchist. All of a sudden he for many, many years, a progressive nothing but a progressive and really hated anarchist, but that's not that's not going far enough. You know it's not just being anarchist. What does that mean? Are you were leftist, anarchist or red anarchist or green anarchist or so? In other words, they see and maybe I'm overdoing it. I maybe actually clutching at straws here, but I think they feel something that's breathing down their neck. This getting so starkly wrong, and they end up having to mount a defense of it. It it, really. I think this not some. I call this infighting among radicals, but to me it's not infighting at all. This 2 very basically different orientations, different values, just fundamentally different. It's different as. Domestication and domestication.

Speaker 2: Absolutely I totally agree, yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, there are always these three points and somehow it can be reformed somehow. It can be humanized somehow. It can be further developed and there they all. I mean, that's the. Point that the one can see that they collapse. Yeah, so there are questions now then you can ask the question directly. Causal you have a question now.

Speaker 7: OK hi, very enlightening really. I for me it is. You can see my background and I'm a public health specialist and particularly I'm alma mater of JNU. Some my question is. Are you agree on that there were sense of happening all the time among the human humanities? And do you think that the time has to do something with predictability? In my opinion, being a physician, I can say the brain is a survival tool. Always try to predict. The argument can be out here that the objective time is an utilitarian tool. If we are. Overusing it, that is, that could be a case. Or we should rethink about developing a different tool. Am I clear? My question is clear because once I say brain is a survival tool, it means that I'm focusing on fear factor. Brain has always has a fear factor and from there the all concepts come. That's my notion. I might be, you can. Expound on it. Is there any relation between predictability with the time sense of time or? Is there any relation between fear? And the sense of time.

Speaker 5: Well, that's an interesting question. That's a predictability. Has certain connotations, or it can be used in different ways. For example, you can predict something in a control sense to dominate it, or you can. Get in touch with nature, commune with nature, and be aware of the changes in the seasons. For example, when something ripens or when certain animals We'll be at a certain elevation. I'm thinking of, mobile hunter gatherers, which might have. You know, maybe a couple or three different camps during the year and they move from one to the other. They need to. Predict if you will, what's going to be found at the other location if they, if they are somewhat movable in their existence. It doesn't mean they control it, but now I think It’s more of an instrumental term where it does imply control. Well, you want to be ahead of the game to capture it, and change it to your own. Desires, that's the more modern usage, but I think you're right in questioning whether or not that is. Somewhat inherent to a concept of time, but I guess that depends on what. What angle you're coming from in terms of what is predictable?

Speaker 3: Yeah John this doctor Jajan.

Speaker 6: I have a question.

Speaker 3: This Alok Devaraj and in more or less on the similar line. I don't know how to articulate it. I my background is also in the global health and public health and I'm just going to be one sentence. You mentioned that the civilization. Cannot be stopped. Like it has, it is already in the inertia. It is moving on and also to some extent I'm trying to put it on to what Kaushal just mentioned. That is the brain, the predictability, the fear, all those things, which is there, it's combined together and seasonality that is also analogous to the you are measuring something you're trying to predict. Something that this what is going to happen. So whether time is just maybe an adjective. What we in the terms of today's time we have taken this As for the pressure for their stress and all that. OK, if you don't, but from the biological point of view also. Everything has its precise timing, like when the zygote is formed. When the development takes place, when it, and if there is a mess up there. If the timing is off, then like and you have some consequences in some diseases or whatever like cancer and all those things because of that. So I want to delink it from the domestication purposes, but the time itself. What you and Kaushal were discussing is something very natural. So how do? We capture it and then also mesh it with the civilization. I just said that we cannot stop. We are moving like we where were in The Cave. So does it mean that we should deny the time? We should still be in the caves. We should still be just staying there. I have no idea of all the. Because the literature and all that you all have lot more knowledge, but I'm just trying to understand this whole thing behind it.

Speaker 5: Wow, that’s quite a challenge. Well, I think they're when we talk about knowledge, understanding, even science, there's different. Ways of seeing this? You know you can have if you have an intimate. Contact with nature. You may have out of that absence of estrangement a much deeper understanding, much deeper knowledge. Then now for example. It just. The estrangement is so this so palpable and so visible. I mean now. More and more machines to tell us what our body is doing. That didn't used to be necessary. Were in tune with our body with ourselves. But now we're cut off from everything. We're just we're just relying. On the machine. It’s a ridiculous degree we don't even imagine that we could have. Some communing with ourselves are are very selves and the rest of them. I think and the question about civilization. Can't be stopped. I probably put that poorly. I think a a very key book in my opinion is Joseph Tainter is. The collapse of complex societies. And maybe what I was clumsily trying to get it is. It isn't stopped until it until it's over. And I mean it can. It's the parasite that consumes the host. At a certain point, the civilization has no more carrying capacity. I mean, the ball game is over because it's just it's. Literally killed off everything in one way or another and that's the end. That's the end of that civilization. And now there's only one, I think almost nothing outside of it, sadly enough. It's a. Yeah, it doesn't. It stops itself, but we need to figure out how to go in a different direction, how to how to chart out some more autonomous. Grasp of where we find ourselves and. Maybe in some way prepare for a soft landing, not just waiting around for the collapse, but figuring out. And turning to indigenous wisdom. Very fundamentally, in my view, what did they eat? What did they do, and how did they lie? And in that respect. I prefer back to the caves. Quite frankly I want to get off this madness machine this death machine this death chorus. Before it kills everything and everything is getting worse, I think there's no doubting. There's just going to be 1 pandemic after another. And the, in the course of society, especially in America, the mass shootings that? I mean it's. Just there's so much pathology in late civilization. There's no way to even make a list of it. It's too. It's too big of a growing list of things that are that are so. Remarkably negative. I’m I'm I don't know if that somewhat tackles what you brought up or not.

Speaker 3: No, no, it's. It's great but again like the.

Speaker 6: Can I ask?

Speaker 3: The point here is that. Will it be? It's just run its course like we have great civilizations in the past. So which we don't see it anymore. So is it just the like, ? You said civilization cannot be stopped one after the other? What we have at the moment, whether it's a pandemic or whether something so is it going to run its course and it just vanishes. It goes away.

Speaker 5: Well, the problem is everything else. Everything else is going to go away with. You know, with respect I mean everything is tied up with it, and so in order to make a break with that, in order to 1st think that through.

Speaker 3: Yeah so.

Speaker 5: I mean there's nothing that isn't being pulled down. I think of the metaphor. I don't. They don't even know what this literally true, but they say when a great ship. Goes down, it creates a vortex and sucks everything down with it. And I think that's happening on every level. It's deforming our own thinking even I mean it's affecting us. That is that the stress of it all. The insanity of it all. It’s really. It's very effective, it's. It has its impact on us in terms of friendships and so forth. I mean, it isn't just something that happens out there, we're all in it. We're all a part of it. We're all being held hostage no matter what your idea is, you don't have. A privileged position. Just because you have a, opposing ideas.

Speaker 7: Hmm yeah no.

Speaker 3: I'll I'll rest my case.

Speaker 6: Ask the question.

Speaker 3: I'll rest my case let's somebody else.

Speaker 1: I'll just add one more.

Speaker 6: May I debraj?

Speaker 1: Of course you can. You can ask now. OK, it's your turn, Sheena.

Speaker 6: Maybe I'm mixing different traditions in asking this question. Nevertheless, one is what you said about controlling nature as being in a sense, the point at which we begin to talk about time and it is. Negative phenomena, but on the other hand. We also have. A later position, as in EP Thompsons's time, work, discipline and capitalism. Now, what is the distinction? There and. Even if it isn't progressive, there's a qualitative difference. Plus, just to comment on the second, when we resist time, as workers going slow or absenting themselves, they're sort. Trying to do something different with time so there are ways in which people resist and we have examples. I mean, it's. It's a part of the working class movement to do that. So how would you see these things? You know, very interesting, but I. I wonder if it. Encompasses different stages of the way time is structured.

Speaker 5: Oh, I think it makes such an important point.

Speaker 6: Would love to know what you think.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that’s very, very important. My own work started with looking at the first unions and in the first industrializing country, England the textile mills, and so forth, and EP. Thompson makes an enormous contribution. He was, he situates time historically in terms of the discipline imposed on factory workers primarily, and makes he's the one who. In that essay, you mentioned and also in his classic the making of the English working class. It's extremely important, It’s a fight that goes on all the time to resist all these forces that are made concrete, made, made specific in work lives. You know in what? You know, and Marx, by the way, I think, got it completely wrong. It's not an advance when you heard everybody into the factories, they're more domesticated by that move, not less domesticated. It was the people on the land that the, for example, the classic handloom weavers that held out the. Longest against that horrible movement and fought even even to starvation in some cases. Refusing the factory they didn't want to be captive that way. Not exactly the glorious proletarian strength that was that was a phony. Collectivist idea that March had. But Europe that's I couldn't agree with you more. It’s important to bring up. The actual historical realities.

Speaker 6: And today I mean, is there hope there? I mean I don't know if you look at even if we forget about the organized trade union position. The fact that there are shrinks in the armor and this this. Well, despite what you said about the terribleness of it all. Are we missing? Those Points of Light because they're not codified, or. Stressed by the media or by Orthodox academic? So reflections, but they're probably happening and we need to catch them maybe. I've been associated with a newspaper called Faridabad. Masoor Samachar that has been in fact highlighting these things in. In the words of the workers themselves. More than somebody like a leader and I think I just would like your reflections. Is there hope?

Speaker 5: Well, It’s easy to be pessimistic, but. As you say, I think it's critical to. To find it wherever we can, the hope the aspects of resistance and that one does see and you not to lose sight of those things. It's very important this system is not infallible. And I think it's. You know It’s quite worried about its future. For that matter, and it reacts accordingly, it's. You know, I've just discovered the work of beyond Chohan. He's a originally a Korean. He was born in Korea, but he's at the University of Berlin and he writes along the lines of Baudrillard. Thing, and it's very. It's very bleak. He's he thinks that domination is almost disappeared because we, the current state of what we call the working class, has somewhat become a matter of we are imposing the domination ourselves. We're participating. So much in the system, at a time when. The communal aspect of social existence community is gone. I mean, I think that's that part of it is very important. There is no more community. Mass society has dissolved that, and we need to face that so it becomes a harder challenge. You know to find some coherent resistance. I mean, he's he is he sees the dispersion, the enemy, the we're more and more privatized and less able to come up with a strong. Opposition, I hope he's overdoing it. I hope he's just being too bleak or dark in his look, but that's the very current that’s a somewhat dominant way of looking. I mean he counts himself. I would say as a deep opponent of modernity. I mean, he just thinks it's so absurdity, so absurd, that he's quite opposed. But he's reached a fairly hopeless position, so that’s part of the zeitgeist. I'm afraid that it's it doesn't look too good right now. You know that's the way it is.

Speaker 6: It's also what, what, what? Gets projected and written about and . I mean, I think there are the limitations of institutionally available. You know? I'm just pointing out something which I find in some newspapers like the one I mentioned, highlighting . Just just. Adding to the conversation.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there are some. I mean for example Government of India, the ruling party is planning some where the bills are introduced, that there should be compulsory voting introduced in. So there are signs of hope. Very obviously people are withdrawing from.

Speaker 6: Do you think that's all working either?

Speaker 1: I mean that people don't want to participate into, I mean electing their masters. They're refusing to participate. I mean that's not only india, I mean this introduction of compulsory voting. This whole discussion. 29 crore of Indians didn't participate in the last elections. 29 crore. It's Indian unit of. I mean it might be 100. 1000, or more than that many. Much more than that. But that's 1/3 of total. Say part of the population, which is eligible for voting 1/3 of in population and. One member of Parliament was trying to introduce a bill so that's never actually at the center of discussion, so that's what actually I'm trying. I'm sorry. So now I'd like to invite other questions. There were some other people who had some questions.

Speaker 2: If I may. Mention something to the doctors because I started my path in anthropology as a medical anthropologist. And so my second book that's based on my dissertation, children's literature, domestication and social foundation narratives of civilization and wilderness. Is part of it well includes my research in medical anthropology and its connections to social control. So I did a comparative work in Sweden with so I looked at Somalis as oral culture, pastoralist culture. So there's the verification. But it's not like as entrench. And compared with European States and their medical understandings of what is illness? What is health? What is nature? What is reproduction? What and so you might be interested in looking at that and connecting it. I don't talk about time. But I do cite John's work on. Domestication and language and make connection there for the doctors and lawyers and everyone else.

Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll they'll be there next time again when. You are there. Yeah, if yeah there are there questions.

Speaker 7: You're good.

Speaker 8: HI have a question please could you explain the connection between domestication and language because language has been there for a long. Time, . So I just wanted to why are you connecting it with domestication and time?

Speaker 1: Can you tell us something about you, Madhu?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well, the origin of speech is rather unknown because there's no artifact attached to it. It's not until we have written language which is much further down the road. No consensus even on conjecture conjecture as to the origin of language. So that part is very speculative on my part. But it's. I mean it, it's not. It's not as basic as time in my opinion as a component of symbolic culture and it so it remains something of an unknown. Yeah, I would. It's not that domestication creates language, but I didn't mean to.

Speaker 8: I mean, I can see the connection between written languages and domestication and agriculture.

Speaker 5: See that.

Speaker 8: Of course, but. To me, language is much goes much deeper. You mean even Neanderthals? Probably had some language so.

Speaker 5: Probably yeah, and but there are all kinds of guesses. Some would put it much further back, hundreds of thousands of years, but. It probably was more recent as you prefer, but we. Don't know, we don't know.

Speaker 8: I mean, our vocal cords are so developed. Whales have languages I don't really see. The connection between language and I mean whales have names for each other. But anyway, but what would be a program of de domestication in your mind?

Speaker 5: Well, it's one one thing you bring up there. I think the question of representation is interesting. I mean, I think a lot of species have language in the sense of signals, but not perhaps in terms of symbols where something stands for something else. It's a more direct communication. And as I mentioned in passing there's there are ways of communication. Language is not the only way to communicate, as even Freud found it pretty likely that people were communicating without language. You know, in a sort of. What's the word we have? Well, without without any without that taking place. And it's. Seems. Odd, isn't it? That someone as rationalist as Freud would come up with something that sounds almost new age but really isn't. You know when you think about it but and he also kind. Of put that down. That was a backward stage. Well, maybe it wasn't a backward stage. Maybe it was a higher stage. If you want to put it that way. No, everything is symbolic. You know everything is representation. We talk about the crisis of representation in a post modern sense, which doesn't. It actually isn't tackling the representation itself. And maybe that needs to be on the table sometime.

Speaker 8: But could please could you like it? Tell us where your picture of what to denomination would involve.

Speaker 5: Well, decolonization is a is a good concrete way to look at it. You know, if Fred, sorry to keep referring to Freud, but if he was right that domestication is nothing but a machine for misery for neurosis, well, you don't want domestication, then I mean, bottom line. So if we want or rewilding some people. Prefer that term. Are domesticated freer. The life of heroes and. And freedom that they do quite often. Then you have domestic. That's the freedom and errors. It's time to get to work. It's time to pay everything and submit control, control the deeper.

Speaker 8: I guess the difficulty. Have with that is if domestication is connected with agriculture and it is. How do you support a population of. I don't know. 8 or 9 billion or whatever. We're going to have because Hunter gatherer population densities are much lower. So that's my basic question. I mean, how do you go from where we are to where you want to be without loss of great loss of life?

Speaker 5: You can't do it overnight and some of our enemies put it. As if we want all. These buildings of people to die overnight. Like we're going to push a button. And well, that's. Crazy, none of us have advocated that. All the time that's we're not only genocidal in our outlook, but we're genocide. Dist we want to kill all these people that's really false and dishonest. It's about what direction we're going in. The reason why Trump's getting granted this question. Why are there? 8 billion people. That's what the is domestic and then industrialization that creates a natural rise of population.

Speaker 9: One minute.

Speaker 5: It’s a purple fact. It's an empirical. He doesn't. He takes it. It is it that's Occurrence that there would be 8 billion people. That's really. That's a crazy. Way to look at. It, but again, he's defending the whole. Thing so he has. To come up with wild charges like that. But no, it couldn't happen overnight, obviously, but you can try to go in that direction toward more autonomy toward sort of. Health of. Unbuilt rule all of these things are part of it. Let's move in that direction instead of just saying, well he. He keeps saying he's not the only one, but look, since we have 8 billion people, we've gotta keep developing. We gotta have more factories. We're gonna have. No, that’s the road to absolute death.

Speaker 8: With Noam Chomsky cells.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he said that 18 years we got to go in the in the direction the current direction and maybe even speed it up to, completely industrialized to pay pave everything.

Speaker 8: OK.

Speaker 5: So because they'll be more and more people. Well, when do you stop that then when do you? Make a break with that. It’s anything but a given this, this just a phenomena that's part of the nature of civilization. That's the way it goes, as Tanner points out, it just keeps going until it kills everything in effect until it eats up all the resources. That's exactly what's happening.

UNKNOWN: Did they?

Speaker 7: Just to follow up on that so it is a natural progression. Are you saying that it is a natural progression? We are going towards the end of civilization, am I right?

Speaker 5: Well, it's the nature of civilization. It's not, . It's not natural in any real sense of if. If that wasn't. If that wasn't the machine that's running, then we would be quite different I think.

Speaker 1: More questions are invited. And Sanjay had to leave. He has requested you request John and others to share the key differences. That they mentioned. So he had to leave now, so that's also an important question. That key references. You can also send it to me by e-mail, or you can also share it with everyone here in the. So that was one important suggestion. So questions. Do we have any suggestions or? Somebody wants to add something to what he said and.

Speaker 7: One thing just to Adam. So because Globe is not I can say everywhere we have a geographically and even in the development. Ladder so-called development ladder. Different countries are at different level, so if this happening this going to. End the particularly the so-called civilized that code and code civilization. It will be happening. I'm just again the same the predict it will be happening in the same same. Same way, same speed or same level of intensity. All part of the world. Or some will survive in some particulars, some countries some civilization, because even in this civilization several layer of it, so it is everywhere. It is the same or it will be different.

Speaker 5: Well, there are. There are differences. Certainly there are cultural differences. There is difference in the pace of. Things in different places. I'm forced to generalize quite a lot, but yeah, but it is a totalizing thing, though, it's it does. It is relentless and it will as we can see. It wipes out these these people, these groups that. You know which don't compete? You know they lose, and whether it's disease or whatever it is, that they’re wiped out. So it's as a general rule, it's gonna it. There's no place that's safe from it. There's no lifeboat idea that you'll be exempt sooner or later, and sadly enough it's it'll be there as it has arrived pretty much everywhere. At different rates of development to be sure. You know, if I can mention here. It's just a favorite favorite text of mine, the Marshall Solens, the original affluent society. He provides a very, very tasty way to look at things in a very witty way. This essay. It's the first essay in the Book Stone Age economy. And he posits a competition between the say, a modern businessman, and somebody in the Paleolithic hunter gatherer person. And he write down the line, he says, well, the Paleolithic person just is a is a loser, just loses out. And in terms of productivity. In terms of all these different metrics, it doesn't have a chance, but then it points out that who is. If your needs are satisfied. Doesn't that sound like being happy? And if but if your needs are not satisfied. If you always want more, you can be a rich businessman, but you're poor. You're not, you're not affluent. Who's the affluent person in this picture? It’s. Can't do justice. Appraising it, but I think that's theart. Of it, and it's just wonderful. Text written way back in the early 70s I think.

Speaker 6: Can I ask? Librach about your reference to the Vikram Nanda's work and this of course related to what John would have spoken about. But you began by talking about his work on the in. Orissamongst the Highlanders.

Speaker 1: Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 6: What is the connection with the with the team? Please do he's he's been a colleague of mine? Unfortunately he's no more and so I'm very keen to know.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 1: No, no. I mean, I can definitely send. You, I mean I. Can share the. Reference and I mean he mentioned somewhere that was very interesting and striking to me when he says that we learned that the time can be wasted. So definitely he didn't go. I mean he didn't want to question civilization and he also. Mentioned that the way. The way we deal with time, how it turns. For example, time Orient, task oriented time and from that we turn into time oriented task this transition. How it all becomes hell, but there are so many, I mean powerful passes in this work. But this sentence, I mean definitely. I had my own reception for the first time. I could see it very clearly that it's not something I mean in that human nature that we should. We should deal with the time and source and that was really a. They're similar to other sentences that I have read. For example, when Mark says definitely I'm not trying, I'm not in a mood to. I mean forgive him for other parts of his life. But when you say that all the changes till now were always. How to say it was all the revolutions till now. All the changes till now was always about redistribution of work. To new set of people, work and power. And the main point is not the. Redistribution of power and work. To new set of. People, the main point is the abolition. Of power and work. Not the not the Redis. I mean, definitely. I'm not forgetting his ecocidal writings and anti anthropocentric sorry anthropocentric writings of Marx, but this was also of program. And it also relates relates to the part of the writings of John. I wanted to ask him that he deals, I mean with the topic at one place that how to stop time while time. I mean essence of time is domestications how to stop time and then I would like to. Hear from him directly that. What do you say to that I? Mean we have. Already discussed this thing, how the time shall be stopped?

Speaker 5: Well, it's a. It's a total picture. I'd say I mean. That's a symptom of something, so you can't. There is no way to abolish that without getting rid of all the rest of the whole ensemble of. It the whole. The whole setup, and domestication is a key part of that. And then, if we manage to get there someday, somehow we'll find out if there's any remaining meaning to that word in some ways. It’s a very instrumental term. It relates to the conditions of. Where we're at in modernity and it's all. You know, I mean. You can go back. To the most basic social institution, division of Labor, and where that starts changing it. I think it introduces certain gradients of authority, certain imbalances in power, slowly, very slowly. It probably unnoticeable because it all. The whole thing develops as a unitary thing. That's why It’s hard to see what's what's coming. And then it's hard to go back the other way. That's the thing about irreversibility of time. Has to do with the irreversibility, the apparent irreversibility of society. It's going very, very slowly at first, but it finally sets the stage to the division of Labor that is toward the jump toward domestication, which is a qualitative jump. But it's. I think only made possible by. Increasing division of Labor. Where probably the shaman is the 1st. Clear specialist or expert that has authority over other people exercise benignly, mostly I think, but it's a power relationship. And then that's you can closer to domestication to the real controlled ethos. That is, that only grows stronger. It feeds on itself. It's the IT has an inner logic, I would say. So we, that’s just a piece of it then, so . If it can be. Dismantled completely left behind. Then then you have. Possibly you have no more time consciousness. You don't. You're not operating in that dimension.

Speaker 1: Thank you so many more questions are invited. I mean of course it's getting late india. What's the time right now india? Or anybody else?

Speaker 6: It's close, It’s. 20 to 11.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 1: So that was one of the challenges that we had for this line up that it would. Be too late. India or how to? Have everybody at the same time and somehow. We could pull it off. So if you don't have anymore questions then I would like to invite you all for the next talk by Lailabdul Rahim. And she has already had one question from Madhuri Mukherjee about the domestication of horses. So, but let's see. I mean, we will see each other on the next the last Sunday of November, and so let us say. Let's call it. A day because it's too late india. Or do we have some questions really from India from younger generation? Ankita Priya do you have any question?

Speaker 4: OK hello.

Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have any questions?

Speaker 4: Not really, but I am really enlightened and I got a much clearer and much better perspective of what the link between domestication and time is. And this whole thing really fascinates me. And it also gives me a look for a like I look forward to a hopeful future if I can say that. So yeah, it is a very enlightening session. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: Yeah, minel do you have any questions or. We'll have many questions, of course, because this topic is entirely new. And yeah, Sudeep you wanted. Do you want to ask something?

Speaker 9: No, there's no question as such, but I really like this, and I mean a lot of things are coming to mind, but I think I'll be putting this down and sharing with you. And I think we can share it in the.

Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to the group and John will be a part of. He's one of the. Founding members of this.

Speaker 9: Group, Yeah it was great listening to him.

Speaker 1: Like any of us. Yeah, in any case we have named it say future of Western and South future of stress in South Asia. But John is a part. Of it. So it's understood. And of course, then I. Also part of it.

Speaker 9: Yeah, it was great listening, and in fact I'm looking forward. To next next month's talk from Lila.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we will have all such sessions and again again we will come back together. Also, as in Group sessions and outlook sessions. That means that where this split between audience and performer will not be there. I mean everybody can talk about himself directly so that this not. This gap is not there. We have to do it like this. That the event is there when John was india. We also tried to prevent this production of. Event somehow it worked out somehow didn't work out, but it does. It's far better if we can overcome these kits. I mean perform audiences right and that's why this our group event and in Group event we all have our terms that everybody is has to tell about himself or his or her and herself. So yeah, because he or she can is the best person to tell and talk about himself and Hassan.

Speaker 9: Sure, sure, yeah. In fact we have discussed about that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so as Leila said, it's always refreshing to listen to John. I mean, it rejuvenates us again gives us. I mean not only, I must confess, not only what you see, but also there's something in the sound of his wires. I mean because it was way back, it was 2010. I was at his place and my conversation with him. With him is also online. It's I mean about the first ever attempt to formulate anti work anti career anti. Civilization History of India. Yeah, and from that time that point of time till now the sound of his wires it is always there and it's like just a fresh stream stream from the mountain. It's refreshing and it rejuvenates and then again you feel young and there's lot to do, John. Thank you very much for being with. Us and your readiness to get up so early. In the morning. He was ready to get up early in the morning at 7:00 AM so that this event is not dead event that is pretty. Got it you want to have?

Speaker 2: It live as I said, you sacrificed your beauty, sleep for us and we treasure it.

Speaker 5: My pleasure.

Speaker 1: Spot on yeah OK?

Speaker 9: So then.

Speaker 8: Well, thank you very much for. That very interesting talk.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, everybody is most welcome, so have a nice day. John in Americand Goodnight to our friends indiand good evening in Germany. Now all the best and see you on the last bye thanks.

Speaker 8: Bye thanks divia.

New Book

When We Are Human

The Anarchist and the Whiteaker

Interview by Wayne Parker. February, 2019.

Under The Radar: The Anarchist in Me

by Doug Harvey. ARTILLERY Magazine. September 4, 2018.

NPR Think Out Loud interview

streaming link | download mp3. May 2, 2018.

The Devil in the Plow, Clock & Book

by Martin Billheimer, counterpunch.org, April 3, 2018.

|

|

Brother; drive out power in yourself. Never let it fascinate you... – Nestor Makhno

The plow marked the moment when History first entered into geological time and humankind, once a single creation out of many, began to transform the forces of general life. This civilization – the old curse of Cain, first to till and kill, primal architect of cities, the father of that pathology known as ‘Progress’. If Anarchist John Zerzan has one wish in his new book, it is that we might wake from this nightmare of myth and History. Wise children often ask their social science teachers: Why do I have to learn this junk that doesn’t matter? The teacher seldom has a good answer because the question is rarely understood: Why must I learn theirjunk, theirHistory; that is, the ghostly lessons of their wreckage.

Zerzan’s latest collection of essays is entitled A People’s History of Civilization and it will probably be met with the same derision from a self-satisfied Left which has dogged idealists even before Fourier. The influence of utopians has always been an embarrassment, as if the inspired initial spark of a political project keeps raising its shrill orphan voice while the Parties have long since grown into maturity (or senility) and realpolitik (or compromise). The anarchic idea is ageless and perfect,“an enthusiastic and Dionysian pessimism” as Novatore has it; it is necessarily outside of history, close to the uncanny spheres of obsession and dream. But after the plowshare has been broken, dream-visions have usually been met with fixed bayonets from both sides. Martyrdom is the only acceptable elite in anarchism. Who Killed Ned Ludd?, as the title of one of Zerzan’s best pieces asks. Look for the assassin at the feet of the Angel of History.

If agriculture was the original sin of History, the Fall was our descent into Symbolic forms which created a psychological removal best expressed by the use of artillery. With the epoch of History proper, beginning with the Neolithic, internal abstractions are projected outwards onto a terra nullius, a void now dedicated to the manufacture of first commodities, the domestication of animals and conflict management, in terror of the silences of a world made ancient by representation and signs. The great farming apparatus of this era mirrored institutionalized ritual and the codes of orthodox magic, which are the ancestors of surveillance technology and remote control. Division of labor lead to the great land enclosures and the dawn of the money form, nascent surplus-value with its classes of guardians, warriors, magistrates, clerics. Greek books were read in boustrophedon, which means ‘after the action of an oxen plowing a field’, each line progressing and then reversing back in a bi-directional motion, equating the patterns of informational technology with the golden gizmo of sedentary humanity. The subsequent Bronze Age saw pottery, the production of rich varieties of armaments, the complexities of credit and written script, and the formation of the great elites – and naturally, slavery. Early statecraft was far more ‘modern’ than is commonly acknowledged: banking, proto-welfare, heated toilet seats, the wide application of credit and debt enslavement (we have conveniently lost the custom of the Jubilee write-down), micro-breweries, were all part of the ancient world. Zerzan sees our much-vaulted great leaps forward as merely rarified variations on a theme, but he follows these zigzags with penetration and a knack for devilled detail.

The other irruption into the natural world is that old monster, Time. Zerzan rejects the picture of an unbroken continuum where all tributaries lead to an inviolable present, a comforting illusion which mirrors the artifice of irrigation systems and continues to haunt all ideologies. The capitalist regimen of days reduces dynamism to the motors of production and psychology to an internal fateful machine (it also allows our current Neoliberal ideologues to declare that all historical epochs are over). With some reservations, Zerzan co-opts three rough historical eras from Spengler and Jaspers to chart the fairly abysmal record of human enlightenment. After all, a good anarchist cannot totally dismiss the solemn judgment of Nihilism. Yet Zerzan sees a constant spirit of revolt puncturing the gray impenetrable historical mass: revelatory and salvific moments, anarchies when ‘the passion for destruction’ and unlettered prophecy break through the chronologies of States. His chapters on labor history are full of madcap millenarians, outré unionists, and the ‘aristocracy’ of damned refusal. The much-maligned angry mobs of the Middle Ages, a period usually rendered as a vast darkness before the autocratic glory of the Renaissance, were not always witch-hunters and fanatics – many were intransigent partisans against monarchic cruelty and the despotism of the Church. We can characterize Anarchic Time as a series of sudden raids into the Legal-Capital span, transversal lines used like a mocking sniper’s sight at the colossus of History.

Despite his antagonism to much of the traditional Left, Zerzan shares two of Marx’s voices: the polemical and the historic-analytical. One of his main criticisms of Marx – or more properly, of Marxists– is that only the means of production are to be handed over the working class, not the means to fundamentally change or halt what is produced. Even if all production were localized in people’s democratic communes, metabolism between worker and land is never possible because the land is still seen as abject material. This fatal mistake can only produce a resurgent bourgeoisie, soon back in charge again as both Bakunin and Trotsky wryly predicted. Thus, the laws of the capitalist mode of production will inevitably return behind whatever cosmetic façade tragedy chooses to trade for farce.

There is also the question of Power; or rather, the claim to Power. Who would elect to be powerless in the face of the Beast? But, Pasolini: “Nothing is more anarchic than power. Power does what it wants and what it wants is totally arbitrary or dictated by its economic reasons which escape common logic.” Two possibilities, then? Careless, heedless resistance and the power of the refusal of old power (the power of the doomed?); and the historically-commandeered application of Power, uncontrollable and fraught with unintended consequences, riddled with dialectical traps for both socialist and capitalist states. And is the power of the State only able to be broken by another rival power? Can this rival power ever be rejected in turn, after it has smashed all the old statues? And if it cannot, then perhaps a reign of terror by the oppressed is always justified, necessary and righteous in its dark parody of unjustice, an act of cleansing for the wretched of the earth? Are such questions even worth asking, as they hardly apply to the time-beside-time of anarchist revolution – or if they do, are they not equally applicable to the other political schools? Is not every revolutionary some anarchist, but only before the Revolution’s final victory? Still, as per Zerzan, theory and practice of Power might itself be yet another hostile intrusion into humanity, just like the disciplines of History, Agriculture and Time. Certainly, ideas of power run through historical processes – but they do not necessarily ordain destiny. Perhaps they did not even create the past. Power is not a thing but a relation between things, to use a little Marx. It has its applications, its system of violence and peace, its doctors and its various schools, on every level of society. Maybe we need anti-education, like we need anti-history.

Recent work on archeology and society, notably by David Graeber & David Wengrow here, indicates that Zerzan may be mistaken in his essential schema of agriculture-hierarchy-civilization (as would be capitalists and authoritarians). The ages of the earth now seem to weave in and out with a much more Lamarckian than Social Darwinist loom. Technologies appeared and were rejected and did not necessarily follow each other automatically; leadership at times existed only temporarily, then life fell back by season into egalitarianism (this may be the ritual source of the sacralization of kings in Frazer’s Golden Bough); large communities existed in ‘urban’ environments, but seemed to have functioned in some cases as true decentralized soviets; agrarian projects were maintained without the evolution of grain capital hordes (and were abandoned when deemed unnecessary); private property did not always arise out of mass farming and hunter-gatherers could prove more rigid and tiered than farmers. Earlier epochs may have been more fluid and more able to sustain multiple ideas of culture than our own; almost all we knew of them until now came from the speculations of various ideologues. Yet this may be exactly where Zerzan’s anarchic eruptions look back to, look forward to, both announce and recall, which makes his central hypothesis irrelevant and proves his argument against the fabrication known as History. So he ends his book with a beautiful gloss on Benjamin’s ninth thesis from Theses on the Philosophy of History (1940), that mysterious and profound meditation at the twilight of irony, legend and lived life:

A messianic dimension is needed if history is to be redeemed, if a part of our happiness our ancestors could not have is to be validated. To ‘awaken the dead and make whole what has been smashed.’ To unmask the paradigm of history and its fundamentally legitimizing enterprise. Time and history ceaselessly advance all encompassing domination; a rupture, a break is needed… a break with history. Were conscripted into history and we must make our exit from it.

Zerzan notes a choice of targets by radicals in 1830 which may augur this escape: a clock tower. Shoot out the Symbolic with the guns of the Real, then forward to the very Capital of Pain. Avanti popolo, alla riscossa...

Articles

• Archive of articlesat theanarchistlibrary.org

• green-anarchy.wikidot.com

• Interview in Journal for the Study of Radicalism with Arthur Versluis. Vol. 2, Issue 1, 2007. Click here

Interview with Roc Morin for Vice

Source

The Industrial Revolution wasn’t just about economics. As Foucault says, it was more about imposing discipline. It started to dawn on me, maybe technology has always been that way.

Interview with Martin Pavelka for More Thought

Source

Are people happy with domestication, with leading domesticated lives? I think the answer is, resoundingly, 'no.'

Disinfo interview

Source

Today, because of not despite technology, we are more and more isolated. Community, the fundamental aspect of non-domesticated and non-industrial life, is gone.

Telegraph interview

Source

We've never had more technology than now, and it's coming out faster than ever. But that's exactly why I think people will start pushing back. They are beginning to see that technology doesn't deliver on its promises.

On Steve Jobs' Legacy

Source

You can wax poetically about this clean, gleaming thing that is the Steve Jobs product, but in order to get it you have to have the ugly, systematic assault on the natural world.

We Heard Screaming (2012)

Source

As community heads to a vanishing point, social ties and human solidarity are lost, of course. Nihilistic acts, including shootings, are symptoms of the isolating emptiness of mass society. How could it be otherwise?

Happiness (2011)

Source

Is happiness really possible in a time of ruin? Can we somehow flourish, have complete lives? Is joy any longer compatible with the life of today?

Silence (2008)

Source

“Silence used to be, to varying degrees, a means of isolation. Now it is the absence of silence that works to render today's world empty and isolating. Its reserves have been invaded and depleted.”

The Left? No thanks! (2008)

Source

“ ...it isn't anarchism that is moving forward, but anarchy. Not a closed, Eurocentric ideology but an open, no-holds-barred questioning and resisting.”

Seize the Day (2006)

Source

“Ours is an incomparable historical vantage point. We can easily grasp the story of this universal civilization's malignancy...”

No Way Out? (2003)

Source

“The nature of the civilization project was clear from the beginning. As the swiftly arriving product of agriculture, the intensification of domination has been steady and sure...”

Why Primitivism? (2002)

Source

“For a new orientation the challenge is at a depth that theorists have almost entirely avoided.”

Appearences

February 2018

• BDYHAX conference, Austin TX, February 3

December 2017

• Barnard College, Columbia University, December 5

July 2017

• The Base, Brooklyn, July 29

February 2016

• Left Bank Books, Seattle, February 21

• Cat Mountain Lodge, Tucson, February 27

March 2016

• Northtown Books, Arcata CA, March 11

December 2015

• Brno, Prague, December 3-8

November 2014

• Stanford University, November 15

February 2014

• Fort Lewis College, February 25

November 2013: Arizona

• Flagstaff, November 16-17

March 2013: Brazil

• Joao Pessoa University, March 25-27

January 2013: Arizona

• Northern Arizona University, January 22

September 2012: Washington

• Smoke Farm Symposium: September 23

August 2012: England

• London (Raven Row) August 4

April 2012: Wisconsin

• Madison (Rainbow Books) April 15

• Stevens Point (U of Wisconsin) April 16

February 2012: India

• Feb 7-11: Delhi

• Feb 14,16: Hyderabad

• Feb 20-21: Chennai

• Feb 22-23: Kerala

December 2011: Arizona

• Tucson: December 10 (Dry River Collective)

November 2011: California

• Fresno State University: November 29

July 2011:

• Portland Anarchist Book Fair, July 23

• Philosophy in the Contemporary World Conference, Oregon State University, July 24

May 2011: Arizona

• Tucson (Dry River Collective) May 7, 2011.

February 2011: Canada

• Feb 3 Vancouver

• Feb 4,5 Victoria

November 2010

• Nov 8 Penn State University

• Nov 4,5 Temple University

September-October, 2010: Italy

• Sep 25 Padova: Montenegro Terme

• Sep 26 Milano: c.c. Conchetta

• Sep 28 Torino: University

• Sep 29 Bologna: Modo Infoshop

• Sep 30 Siena: University

• Oct 1: Pisa: University

• Oct 2: Modena: Scintilla

June 2010

• Ireland: Dublin, Enniskillen, Belfast

April 2010

• Sweden: Gothenberg, Stockholm

January 2010

• Spain: CGT Centenary, Madrid

• England: Cowley Club, Brighton

November-December 2009

• India tour: Mumbai, Nagpur, Kolkata, Delhi

August 2009

• Christianarchy conference, Memphis, Tennessee

June 2009

• Moscow International Book Fair and anarchist venue

May, 2009

• OVNI Festival, Barcelona

Finland: May, 2009

Seminar on primitivism, anarchism and anthropology: John Zerzand the postmodern world

• 23rd May 2009, University of Tampere, Finland. Download pdf

India: November 7-19, 2008:

Hindustan Times article: PDF or article link (see p. 12).

Jaipur:

• November 9 -- conference hall, Prakhrit Bharti center, 4 PM

New Delhi:

• Tuesday Nov 11, 2 p.m. Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), School of Social Sciences

• Friday, Nov 14, 11 a.m., SGDB Khalsa College, Delhi University, North Campus

Brazil: February 1-15, 2008

Europe: May 25-June 12, 2007

• Serbia: Belgrade, May 25-27

• Slovenia:

• Lubljana, May 28-29

• Koper, May 29-30

• Switzerland:

• Zurich, May 31

• Lugano, June 1

• Belgium: Ghent, June 2

• Germany: Hamburg, June 3

• Sweden: Stockholm, June 4-5

• Finland: Tampere, June 6-7

• Estonia: Tallinn, June 7

• Poland: Warsaw, June 8-9

• Austria: Vienna, June 10

• Hungary: Budapest, June 11

• Holland: Amsterdam, June 12

Arrangements

John Zerzan is available as a public speaker. Recent venues include college and university campuses nationwide, as well as these international tours:

• 2000- England, Spain

• 2001- Spain

• 2002- Greece, Italy

• 2004- Turkey

• 2005- Germany, Croatia, Serbia, Italy, Turkey

• 2006- England, Spain

• 2007- Europe

• 2008- Brazil

• 2008- India

If you are interested in arranging a speaking engagement, write to John at jzprimitivo[at]gmail.com

Bibliography

• When We Are Human: Notes from the Age of Pandemics, Feral House, 2021

• A People's History of Civilization, Feral House, 2018

• Time and Time Again, Detritus Books, 2018

• Why Hope? The Stand Against Civilization, Feral House, 2015

• Future Primitive Revisited, Feral House, 2012

• Origins: A John Zerzan Reader, a joint publication of FC Press and Black and Green Press, 2010

• Twilight of the Machines, Feral House, 2008

• Running On Emptiness, Feral House, 2002

• Against Civilization (editor), Uncivilized Books, 1999; Expanded edition, Feral House, 2005

• Future Primitive, Autonomedia, 1994 (out of print)

• Questioning Technology (co-edited with Alice Carnes), Freedom Press, 1988; 2d edition, New Society, 1991 (out of print)

• Elements of Refusal, Left Bank Books, 1988; 2d edition, C.A.L. Press, 1999

Anarchy Radio

Since the millennium change John Zerzan has been expressing his anti-civilization views on his one hour live radio show, "AnarchyRadio." By audio streaming (KWVA 88.1 FM) you can listen to "AnarchyRadio" live each week on Tuesdays at 7pm PST and express your views by calling 541-346-0645 during the live broadcast.

Listed below are the archives of "AnarchyRadio."

Looking for the latest show? If the annotated list of shows below hasn't been updated yet, you should always able to find the latest Anarchy Radio at the top of this archive.org search results page.

2023

08-29-2023

[audio]

Unstoppable mass shootings. Rise of fires, heat waves. Idalia--and more to come. Women hunters in prehistory. "Conspiracy 'theory'" by JZ. Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat," by Beres et al. "The Case Against AI: Everything, Everywhere, All at Once" by Judy Estrin. Phoney opposition to chatbot AI to general embrace, in days. "Electric Cars Are Made of Pollution and Human Misery," by Kathryn Porter. Screen time makes kiddies stupid. "Quiet quitting" still with us. Two calls.

08-22-2023

[audio]

"We Are Witnessing the 1st Stages of Civilization's Collapse" [The Nation!]. Hyundai: "Progress is our law of nature." Spread of mass shootings. Why are we so sad, mean, insecure? Kids bereft, incapable. "The Age of the Urban Inferno is Here." Polycrisis is a term. Chatbot as life coach, comedian, etc. Action briefs, two calls.

08-15-2023

[audio]

Maui, HI: apocalypse now. Trump cult and those obsessed with it. Heat + isolation = disaster. Conversation with Jessica Kraft re: her Why We Need to be Wild book; parallel with Darcia Narvaez' Evolved Nest book. "My Mom Will Email Me After She Dies." "We thought the internet could change society. Instead it became society." "Why Is America such a Deadly Place?" Resistance news.

08-08-2023

[audio]

The HEAT. Bronze Age Pervert's recent call. Diseases tick up. The Great Dechurching.Conspiracy theory 2.0. "Moxie"- a talking robot (chatbot) to teach kids "social skills." World- view projects 8 billion facial recognition links to cryptocurrency. New podcasts, action news e.g. Russian recruitment center arsons. One call.

Speaker 1: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWB, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 2: That's right. You're listening to kW VAU gene. It's Tuesday at 7:00 and time for Anarchy radio here in the studio with John. The number is 541. 3460645 We'll be able to take your calls in just. A few minutes we have we have some opening business to take care of and we're going to have some music from Bloomington IN to help us with it.

Speaker 1: Here we are. In the dog days of summer or August 8th for Anarchy Radio. You know, I had a little show called anarchy Hour quite a while back when we had pirate radio in the.

Speaker 2: Whittaker, I remember anarchy hour. Oh yeah, I used to listen energy over. Oh wow, in my in my little apartment on 7th St. Happening, whatever they call.

Speaker 1: It. Yeah. Well, I don't even know if it'll be an hour. By the way, tonight. But as Carl said, it's 541-346-0645 the next week. Catherine will be here. I was in error. I misread. Her message? Yeah, we'll be coasting, and Jessica craft is going to call in. We'll end her new book. Why we need to be wild. One woman's quest for ancient human answers to 21st century problems. Jessica Carol craft. And she will be. Talking about that at Pells in Portland on the 22nd. The following Tuesday. Well, Carl, by the way, Carl won't be here next week, so I'm going to start rattling the cages. Pretty much prone to to make sure we have a sound engineer. Yeah, Carl said. Remember Bronze Age pervert. He called like, what? A month ago, maybe or something like.

Speaker 2: Gosh, I think it was longer than that. It was, it was. It was a few months ago. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Further back. Uh, well, it turns out there's a. An article in the September of the upcoming September issue of the Atlantic. Entitled How Bronze Age pervert charmed the far right and Internet personality you espouses fascism, racism and body building as one influential converts. It was more than a month ago.

Speaker 2: Wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Well, I was wondering if you were able to get a hold of the article because, you know, I was just on the Internet and it's a pay wall. I I couldn't read the whole article except the first paragraph.

Speaker 1: I yeah, I I get a fee, but not from the magazine. From their daily thing. Yeah, he he seemed pretty. Slimy. Kind of furtive. You know, it's.

Speaker 2: It's it was a weird call, you know? Yeah, yeah. You couldn't tell what exactly about it, but it.

Speaker 1: Kinda smelled a rat.

Speaker 2: Was a little. Weird it wouldn't.

Speaker 1: Come across. He wouldn't spit it out. You know what? What are you all about here anyway? So the guys now somewhat.

Speaker 2: Confirmed creep.

Speaker 1: Right. The well known creed. Yeah, news to us. But we have gotten some strange calls over the years. Well, we'll see more on the Joshua trees, which are somewhat rare. They're burning in the heat in the Mojave Desert area that fire. And I think I mentioned the Saguaro cacti dying in Arizona. When the cactus starts to die, it's damn hot. Honey bees too. Their hives are melting. Not just in Arizona, I'm afraid, but anywhere. These days in the Southwest and the South, I guess it's somewhat widespread. And the coral reefs in South Florida, off the coast of South Florida, not just bleaching, they're actually melting, melting in the hot ocean water. Yeah. It's just really rapidly getting more and more insane. They may have heard about the glacier that broke off, causing flooding in Juneau. That's ongoing and it wasn't just a one off there. Yeah, July on this planet. Hottest ever. By wide margin for planet Earth and in South America, where it's winter, it's the equivalent to our February. With 100 degrees in vicuna Chile in the Andes. 100 degrees in February. You know, so to speak. And 80s and 90s, commonly elsewhere in the southern hemisphere. And one more piece, just today in the New York Times about Antarctic sea ice. At unprecedented low levels. And the only new thing about this article was. Reporting this as a quote very sudden change. So that's kind of ongoing, but now it's quickened the pace there. Which means further disruptions of. The ecosystems in Antarctica. The rising sea levels. All over the place. And the spiraling temperatures. This was announced a week ago. Force Iran to shut down. Yeah, country had to shut down all government agencies, banks, schools for two days. It was that hot. And you know. Just to daily craziness, the gigantic flooding in China the severe. Storms on the East Coast. Since just last night. And the. Yeah, ocean temperatures break records. Can't start, can't even count the different. Places that's there is only. Oh man, and you got the bounding. This is situation global cholera epidemic. And that's of course linked to global warming. I don't get the whole picture on that the whole. Parameters in there but. It's kind of headlining. West Nile virus been around in the US since 1999. It's becoming resistant to insecticides. This is spread by the American Culex mosquito. That's coming on again. Coal mining is getting more dangerous. On the weekend, this is a story black lung disease, way up. Well, mining in general of course, is dangerous and. Vitally necessary to any technology, any modern technology. The great deep churching this book hasn't even come out yet, but. That would be probably a parallel to, for example, the book bowling alone that came out in 2000. Churches for sale, you know, empty churches. If you're in England, it's it's really, really noticeable there and has been for quite a while, but now this is a story about the US. Well, the open water swimming event, it's a World Cup event to be held later this month in Paris was cancelled. The same 2 polluted. Due to freakish marine flow levels recently. You know, let her run off one of overflow sewage and that sort of thing. Perris is to host the Summer Olympics. Next summer. Wonder how that will be impacted. Here's an odd phenomenon recently in recent weeks, seeing a number of stories about. For example, last Thursday in the New York Times quote, as objects fly, audiences take starring roles. And this is about performers being pelted with with the cell phones or whatever. Whatever you got to check, it was on stage. That sounds like the punk scene. You know, I remember the movie gardens in San Francisco. Whatever band had start up and people would start chucking beer. Bottles at them and. Kind of dangerous anything about it but. Yeah. And they've been injuries. You know, people have. Been hit and. What is that about? Well, there's some really there's some really odd. Take no stuff going on as usual. Two days ago, in the Sunday New York Times. And this has to do. I'm trying to get somewhere with my my new topic, which is conspiracy theory. If you get the goods on that, let me know. I'd love to steal your ideas and further my. Piece on the subject. This article is called how Q Anon broke conspiracy theory. Sooner than odd title, but the point is how the Internet has changed conspiracy theory. Mainly queuing on, but you know more than that and. Social media being online, it's I I think the point is. The primary point here is. These things get more grotesque and and I guess more metastasizing when it's a function of. Social media, in other words, is to have. Kind of discrete conspiracy theories like Elvis is still alive or. Kennedy was killed by the CIA or something, but now they tend to. Kind of grow. To stay current on social media, you know, there's you can see the the malignancy kind of like a cancer needs to grow or it dies I guess. I mean, being online is already undermining any sense of knowledge or truth. That's that isn't just a postmodern conceit, although it's. That's the obvious connection because. You know, post modernism peaked when. When the techno culture really took off. In the 80s and 90s, that's not a coincidence, but. Yeah, and there's more. More of the reach of AI is is also a part of this. Another piece in the same Sunday New York Times. Invading in publishing touches of fear and anxiety. Invader and publishing touches on fair and. In creativity as well. Kind of an oddly titled thing. Now writing may be done by AI, as you probably already know. So publishing. Has to contend. With all that. Yeah, the takeover, you can see it every single day. Yesterday was an article about something called. Nine to five. Good. And I think this is not the only app, but it 95. Google Now has a grammar check feature. You know, spell check is one thing. You don't need to learn how to spell I guess, but this inches toward doing the writing right. You don't know how to put a sentence together. You push the button and it fixes it. Yeah. One more step toward the you know the. Full launch. A lot of the chat bot thing. But here's this this could be the end of the week. It was just more of a news thing. Check it out this from the Southern California AI company called embodied. Remember that it's called embodied. Now has come up with a chat bot for kids called Moxie. Yeah, it's a talking robot to get this, to quote, teach social skills. Once again, the machine. It's the real social it teaches you social skills. You know. You're talking to a machine that's. Is kind of a strange version of social skills, right? It's. It's too insulting for words if you ask me. But things things March on and sometimes they don't March on. For example, today the news came out that Boeing's first astronaut flight, their first launch. Which is years behind already. Is delayed again until next March at the earliest. Another techno fail is kind of spectacular, I guess. Well, this is kind of a whopper in today's. New York Times. From an outfit called World coin. You can already see the connections here. This is a cryptocurrency facial recognition project. Yeah, they're. They're lining these things up. In tandem. And that's the idea. Who knows if this is going to fly? But the idea is to scan. 8 billion people's eyes in link the scams to participate in cryptocurrency. You get the facial recognition and thereby this. This just sounds so. I don't know all-encompassing is one word. Is you're automatically registered. It sounds like to a small piece of cryptocurrency, so you're enrolled. You're already part of it. Via the social recognition global of. Thing global project. So you got these coded scans these digital IDs. That this it's obviously to get the cryptocurrency off the ground. An effort, given its many failures, it's. I guess they've got to try to be grandiose about it. It doesn't sound too dystopian, does it? Hate. Believe in facial recognition? Deals that tied into cryptocurrency. Creepy orama. And just some of the more mundane, prosaic stuff about the tech reality. On the weekend at The Verge, it was a story about how. If you're charging your battery pack, don't do it near any place you don't want to catch fire. You might want. One suggestion is to put it in the in your BBQ grill with the lid on. So if we want to burst into flames, it's not going to burn your house down or burn up your car or whatever. And the hacks and the hacks, that's absolutely nothing new there. But now there is a major multi state hospital ransomware attack. That the FBI is forced to go after. And you know, when everything is smart, everything can be hacked, right? It's just the entryway to. Sell the works if you want to be smart, you've got to be stupid and be open to you know, hacks by any kind of outfit, any agency. Zooming right along one thing I now I can get to thanks to Artem is helping me out here. Now I have. A copy of plastic and Unera Journal of Anti Civil Anarchy Reborn from the compost of wasteland modernity. Issue #1. This is so cool, it's pretty compact. It's only 32 pages I think. And yeah, I want to get into this little bit the theme is. Artificiality. That's the topic in various ways of seeing it. Yeah, this is very cool little Zane. And he's already working on #2. Well, he kicks it off with a poem by him by himself, called Birdsong. Winter is coming to a close goodbye for now. Have you close? I step outside. Skin on skin. Feel a cool breeze. Breathe it in. High up above. Music in my ears. Bird song. Bird song. Wash away my fears. Spring is coming. Life leaves its Burrows. Not even this does Leviathan foreclose. I see a squirrel. I see my kin. To not love this world is the greatest sin. To build over this, the thought brings me to tears. For this I fight with stones and Spears. And beautiful precious. Just a marvelous collection of mostly fairly short essays. Steve Kirk kicks it off. And there's Joanne ****** in there. There's. There's a couple of pseudonymous people. There's also. Yeah, like for example walks with knives. That's a real fine piece called the old blood. Sky has one called illusory worlds of illusory play on escapism and free time. All about the techno capitalist dystopia we find ourselves trapped in. Sasha Angels Angel is a great piece called into continuous unfolding. Yeah, that. Unfolds a little bit of his work. The uncivilized mask by Dionysius. And a very short piece. For me called poverty. I think the very end of that is I must have. I'm, I'm sure, rent us on the air. Oh yeah. The last line is simply poor and simple as required. Yeah, it says right here is also read on Anarchy Radio March 28th. Let's see, I think. I think I'm, I think I'm skipping over somebody. Anyway, yeah, check it out. Free the prisoners. PO Box 72, Seymour, Illinois 61875. If you want to try to get a hold of the copy. Well, I got some nice news today. I got some copies of. A book, a translation of mine, published in. The book is career. Sobre El Vacio, running on emptiness, the pathology of civilization. Just a beautiful cover of very, very handsome execution. Seriously, then. Yeah, a couple of people have worked on that translation and I'm very grateful for that. You know what we're going to be gone and in. About half of the hour. And you might sneak on out of here. If you hasten, you might get in a phone call that, yeah, what the heck it's it's always also always says you. Don't have to. Do the whole. Damn hour. You know, if you if it ain't there and. It's been a. Little bit slow in some ways lately and I've been kind of tied up too, but. Do have a few things I want to do give out one thing. This is a popped up once or twice hasn't been too fleshed out. For example, last Wednesday at CNN. The story very brief. There's not much detail here, but military recruitment centers in Russia have been hit by a wave of arson attacks. That's pretty cool. And Tim sent me this. Is is kind of a little cartoon figure. And this is the caption someone asked me if I have plans for the fall. It took me a moment to realize they meant autumn, not the collapse of civilization. Nicely done. This is from. The New Yorker magazine which? It's gotten even worse. It's it's really dreadful scene. It's. But there was a nice cartoon in the new one. Two guys, one guy is a Carpenter. He's sawing wood and somebody is standing near him. Any the letter says, oh me, I make emails standing near the Carpenter. Well, something not so cute at Union Square in Manhattan last Friday was to be a video game giveaway. Which didn't happen and annoyed the people. This is a kind of goofy DJ where whoever he is just kind of known for his pranks. That people fell for this and. Then they were. Kind of did some wreckage at a new subway station and yeah, something of a ride ensued. This was reviewed at a news. And you can see newsletter which is supposedly post left. This is a horrible piece. I haven't read it, but I know who wrote it to Tom Wetzel, also known as Tom Weasel and People and. Know him or knew him in the Bay Area called overcoming capitalism strategy for the working class in the 21st century. Called a major work of anarchism. Says a news. Yeah. Well, of course there's zero about civilization and it's collapse or about technology. It's just tired leftism. A reformed version of syndicalism? As if that isn't bad enough. Vice, by the way, there's a. Source of news. It's fading out. It's. Limping along distance. It's still go there. Check it out. But it doesn't have much. But do you want to mention the Great Uncivilized podcast the latest one? Artemis doing an in-depth interview with our friend Jamie JVL. Worthwhile earliest does these, just they're they're pretty. Lengthy and they really. They really cover the ground and you know, he did. One with Jessica Kraft. We'll probably just have 1520 minutes with her next week, Kate and I. But if you want more of the total goods and you haven't gotten the book yet. Go to. Uncivilized podcast. Well, let's see. You don't have too much else. So here's some here's a few action things. July 1st. At the Moabit prison in Berlin, 3 vehicles. Of apparently of blowing the prison guards were burned. Each charging stations were burned in Bremen, in northern Germany, northwestern Germany on the night of June 15th to the 16th. Also on the night of July 13th to the 14th. With the message that the switch to EVs is a new extractive as push the same old industrial. Exploitation of nature. A green capitalist has sold on the Earth the new mining, et cetera. All that stuff, it's. Not too green. Sustainable. And lovely when you look at it. And also in Germany suburb of Munich. Was the sign of a cell phone tower. Torched on July 16th. July 19th. And Bremen, Bremen again. Audi, belonging to Senator of the Interior. That's the government post, obviously. By the name of Maurer, this guy's name was firebomb near his front door. Anyway, Saturday night this past Saturday night, an arson at the LA City Hall burning object was thrown through a second floor window. Hang on. Oh, we got a color.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we have items.

Speaker 3: Hello. Hello.

Speaker 1: Hello. Hello. Thanks for calling.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I will say I was planning to call before you. Mentioned the podcast. I just want to be clear.

Speaker 1: Oh oh, I'm the new.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I missed the. Unfortunately I missed the 1st 30 minutes I've been so busy and then I. Sat down. I was like it's. Tuesday, I've missed I'm missing the 1st. Half and then as soon as I started in. And you're like, oh, I might have to call it early, you know, call in and here I am.

Speaker 1: There won't be a second 30 minutes, I'm afraid. I'm. I'm done. Yeah, but how are you?

Speaker 3: I'm doing all right. I just wanted to. Yeah, just if you didn't want to continue that school, I just thought I would come in with a something that's slightly irrelevant. If you wanted to talk about it, if you.

Speaker 1: Sure. Ohh yeah, plenty of time.

Speaker 3: Had the time. So. So on the Jamie episode, which I thought.

Speaker 0: From I.

Speaker 3: I always say it's my favorite episode because it seems that this year, as we've joked, is the year of the uncivilized. Each episode is just, I think, rising and. Quality because I'm just getting so much more comfortable doing the interviewer position I guess, and it just it's coming together. But on Jamie's episode someone commented saying said here that Jamie and others like Zerzan are still stuck in the 1960s and basically saying that we're too Marxist in our theory of history. But he posits. That graeber and wind grow, of course. Have figured it out. But he still identifies. As a primitivist.

Speaker 1: Who does?

Speaker 3: This person, who knows by the name of splotch. Yeah, just on the YouTube comments basically says that it's we shouldn't just believe that one thing leads to. Another that holder, cultural hearted culture. Doesn't lead to domestication. Domestication to agriculture and so on, and that these are actually incidental and. You know, I just, I find that interesting, the. Recently says as an anarcho primitivist myself, I assume we need to rethink primitivism and jettison its Marxist framework analysis once and for all. And I just, I was really stunned by that because I feel like he might not have actually listened to what we've been saying on the podcast because he's not responding to anything we actually say.

Speaker 1: Ohh no, that's yeah, that's so turned around. It's just almost inverted to.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I just, I'm curious, what do you think motivates for me? I find they're so anti. You know people are anti Marxist which I understand that they for me yeah I'm a materialist you know the kind of Marvin Harris cultural materialism and people want to throw the. Baby out with the bath. Water. I guess that's my impression. Anyways. I don't know what. Do you what do you think? Motivates. Motivates that.

Speaker 1: Well, I I don't know. I guess there's two things there. I mean, you know, there's. The analysis that marks provided and then in practice. These groups that are still surviving somehow long past, but maybe we've called the sell by date, you know, into Leninism and Maoism and all the rest of the.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 1: You know, offshoots, which marks that nothing to do with. But yeah, you got to learn from marks. I mean, yeah, that's not as you say. No need to throw that out. Just, you know, try to take it further and build on that and you know in the 21st century, you know. I mean, you know that's that should be kind of a clearer. Project, you know, part of the whole thought. Deal. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I. But the the people that are that really are pretty darn Marxist, but don't no longer want to cop to it. That's the, you know, that's the slippery part. And the part that isn't straight up. I mean, if you if you're Marxist, you know, defend it, you know. Throw it, throw it out there, put it on the table. But. Don't come on with the slippery stuff like. Graver and wind grow I. Right. I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 3: He even says these cite numerous examples, but surprise he doesn't list any of those.

Speaker 1: Examples. Gosh, you know.

Speaker 3: And then even says that you can have states without civilization, which to me like that's foundationally like, how can you be a primitivist but then believe states can exist can exist in the absence of civilization? Because to me, class society and States and civilization are synonymous. Like we can't have one without the other. So I. I don't know. It was just a very confusing. Comments section that just. Continued to like devolve because I was like, well, not all hunter gatherers are egalitarian and he goes on to say, well, not all hunter gatherers were. Egalitarian I was. Like, well, yeah, I I. Just said that so. I don't. I feel like maybe you're not listening.

Speaker 1: Especially if you define hunter gatherers as, you know, talking about, not other gatherings. I mean, and as you pointed out, you know, Jamie said. The scholarship, you know, just to get back to that level, they'd be fired on the basis of, you know, the the scholarship thing, you know, the goods. That's you can run it down. You can check it out. And I do recall and I don't want to, you know, overdo this, but I was somewhat. I was trying to be a little bit worried about the examples I cited. As maybe I'm cherry picking. You know, they maybe a couple of weak things, but that doesn't, you know, torpedo the whole boat. But then when I heard windrow gave a talk this after, you know. His partner died. I mean his co-author died. They were exactly the two I thought of. And he was the one who chose them. So weird from that, I knew I wasn't cherry picking. Just to make a point and not, you know, giving. You know proper time to the bulk of the thing you know. But he was he was. They were his two bulwark examples in the speech he gave. So you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Then I know I find it interesting, but I guess some of the last things I'll mention is, as you talked about on civilized is we finally hit 1000 subscribers, which is really great. And we've since your episode and particularly because of Jessica's and even jamies, is that we've. Had the highest. View count we've ever had on the channel.

Speaker 1: Wow, cool.

Speaker 3: It's really great and I know some people 1000's not a lot but to be anti civilization on YouTube and then to put out the content to me that's that's pretty cool because we're not the main cause. We're not appealing to. A mainstream idea, you know.

Speaker 1: Right, right.

Speaker 3: The uphill battle it's really. Easy to be an anarcho liberal. Make a channel and get a bunch of views and. There are people like that. If you're appealing to people. You're appealing to a a. Status quo morality. You're just being a little more radical. With it, right?

Speaker 1: It wouldn't fly. Though, but yeah, that's that's awesome 1000. That's right again. Oh, and by the way, Speaking of that, that. Here's my memory. I just had a phone call with Peter Warby 5th estate editor. One of the editors over there. And he's got a new book called Eat The Rich. It's a collection of essays. Maybe you heard about it and it's he said it's not doing.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: It isn't a big deal like you know, some are the, some are on fire, the novel. It really was pretty big. I mean, it was huge in Detroit anyway. Well done, very well written. People this you know. I can tell you how how much books of essays sell from my own experience, but anyway, I mean, no, he's pleased about that. And we had a good conversation and I think he'll be on the energy radio pretty soon. We had a we had, it was good, we hadn't. Talked in quite a while and. And into that a little bit.

Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe. Maybe we got to get him on the podcast because it's just been. I've been kind of monopolizing if you. You speak against civilization. I want you. On the podcast so.

Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think that. Would be a darn good. Idea. Yeah. He's a very interesting cat and he's. You know, he's I don't know how to put this, but he's he's really sympathetic to where we're at. Although you wouldn't. You wouldn't see that so hugely in the 5th estate. And they need to be clear about that. But so he's kind of.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: I don't know. It's kind of hard. Way to walk, I guess. You know, because he's not the only editor. So if sometimes I've gotten pretty bugged at some of the issues that. Fairly weak, frankly, but there's a good guy and talk about radio voice you've ever heard Peter. I mean, he's he's got the voice. It'll be. It'll be very cool. So do you. And that that should be fun too. You go into depth with really nicely and I think you're very correct in saying you're they're getting better and better your podcasts, and they've always been good, really good. But now they're even better.

Speaker 0: I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just funny because now we're getting comments and some of the older videos from people, you know, cause Jessica with her connections just blowing the videos up, and now we're getting people engaging with, like, old content. I'm like, oh. Don't look at. Those no. Don't look. Don't look at. The old stuff. Oh oh, but yeah, it's just I always I want to say, you know, whenever me and the other uncivilized people like Brady, Gavin and Emmanuel, you know, we hear you or other people talk about the podcast. It feels great knowing that it's not just we're in a bubble because sometimes it feels that way when a video doesn't do well or it's the same people that engage with it. Did you? Want to engage with more than just your circle?

Speaker 1: Sure, sure.

Speaker 3: So like when we hear, because I've had people come to the podcast or the scene or other projects because they mentioned, oh, well, you always call them the John Show or John mentioned this and you know it's so cool to like see I guess. The web of primitivism and anti SIV kind of expanding a little bit, kind of like the net to catch more people to put it in a weird way.

Speaker 1: Sure, sure. And this has to.

Speaker 0: You know.

Speaker 1: Be acknowledged, I mean. A news which I trash on through the often you know, they're they're aware of it. They you know, they they're not allergic to having your podcast up sometimes.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And they and you know, and sometimes they they talk pretty nice. I don't listen to it too often. But they're energy news. Podcast I think that's the name of it. Where they do like a verbal overview when they do reviews, they're usually pretty generous. Sometimes they didn't speak so nicely to that episode I had. With you, I will admit.

Speaker 1: Big surprise.

Speaker 3: Right. But you know, they like you said, like they're really good because I've had people reach out. They're like, hey, they talked about you. And I kind of forgot about anarchist news to be honest. And like they. Talk about you. A lot. I was like they do.

Speaker 1: Oh wow, I didn't. Know that either. I I haven't heard that that the weekly Roundup. In a while.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I now I try to listen in and they don't accept every podcast because I I know they have their own idea of what is anarchist to news and that's fine. Like for example, they didn't accept the Jessica episode, but as you pointed out to me, I missed it. The Jamie episode. I thought they turned. That one down. And even there, believe it or not, there's been decent engagement with Jamie's ideas on anarchist news. Which is pretty rare, thoughtful.

Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty rare.

Speaker 3: Thoughtful comments is something I didn't anticipate seeing in the interest news comments.

Speaker 1: There's a lot of direct. There's a lot of embarrassing stuff, but there's, you know, there's sometimes there's something that's OK.

Speaker 3: Well, I'll, I'll leave it there, I. Appreciate every time being able to call in, even if sometimes I feel like, you know, I'm stealing the airwaves. Well, the, you know, the. The callers at the gates, you know.

Speaker 1: You hardly. You're rescuing the project, and I thank you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you have.

Speaker 3: A. You have a great night, John.

Speaker 1: Thanks. Take care.

Speaker 0: You too.

Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, he came to the rescue. Well, you know what?

Speaker 2: What do you what do you want to do?

Speaker 1: Let's do that. Some people will hate it. You know you hate it, probably. But anyway, yeah, we got. Directories somewhat, well, not somewhat famous. Famous Symphony #3. This is the second movement. Yeah, we're going to. Hear that and thanks for listening. It wasn't to flower, but. I appreciate it in the. Take care out there.

08-01-2023

[audio]

Fern's talk at Sam Bond's. West is ablaze. Southwest becoming unlivable. N. Atlantic current may soon stop. Weekend carnage. Homelessness as damaged people. Sharp overall health decline. Island of Tuvalu going under; virtual future. Robots with chatbot brains.Technology as pandemic. New zines, books, gatherings. Resistance reports. One call.

Speaker 1: The news expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 3: That's right. You're listening to kW V AU gene. You're here in the studio with John. The number, of course is 541-346-0645. It is time for anarchy radio. Right after we take a short break.

Speaker 2: You can't tell me that I didn't even try. Staring at the country still blinds my eyes. Television playing the reflection is crazy. What into myself, was it ever a time?

Speaker 4: I said no. No compromise, too stubborn, crazy.

Speaker 2: When the fire scrolls, you bring all your best friends home. The after party rules. Do you ever.

Speaker 4: Want to be alone?

Speaker 2: Rest your flight an. Angel, the vision brings. Me such strength. Yeah, I'm jealous of your spirit. That's hanging just by. Promise to stubborn.

Speaker 5: See each other.

Speaker 2: Around till we.

Speaker 4: Collide and cry.

Speaker 2: Burning inside my head. My words don't. Affect you, so forget.

Speaker 4: About all I'm saying.

Speaker 2: You only with those.

Speaker 4: At night.

Speaker 2: Cigarette and Buster, this Tony was shining.

Speaker 1: Video for August Wind, where there was a mystery fail last week. No recording. Don't know why? Hope for a better result this week for this week's show. I wanted to start off by saying something about ferns presentation that Sam Bond Sunday night. It was the final entry in the Tuts from the WIT series produced by Ian. And any way to wind that up, it was a. Was a great talk about her two years exploring in the Pacific Northwest the. Various kinds of intentional community. Groups, mostly small. We've tried to. Get out of the grid and. You know, break out of that and. Establish some community. Yeah, very interesting stuff indeed in the discussion. Was very lively, very late on to lots of things. One thing I noticed about the discussion. I think this is probably true in general. People are asking what is going on, what's going to happen next, what the heck is it all about kind of thing? Which kind of veered away? In particular, is from. What friend is talking about? I mean, not entirely, of course. But anyways, interesting to see. That's the tenor. Of questions, or at least some of them, and. Yeah, people were trying to explore stuff and, you know, one of the takeaways, in fact, probably the last kind of bottom line thing she had to say about her experience, what she got out of. Running across these various groups. In their projects in the Pacific Northwest was. It seemed like she was imagining, or maybe expecting that this would be the note of deprivation would be there. Pretty big? I mean, giving up everything and going off and, you know, trying to do something without the conveniences that's part of it. Anyway, and anyway, she said, now the bottom line was Joy was a joyful deal. That's what. That's what these folks are about fundamentally so. So that was very cool to hear. Because she didn't go in there with any imposed. Paradigm or expectations. But that's what she came came away with. That was good, highly interesting stuff and. And that will be. The last installment for community television talks from the wood. I think that's Thursday evening at 7. These these talks have been. Televised till 29 locally. Anyway, oh boy, the West is burning. And not only the West, of course, but out West down here, major fires in nine states. Fire in Washington state has burned into Canada, and a California fire. That's the Malawi fire is burned into Nevada. And meanwhile, stories about refugees and the southern border. Of the US denied refuge from the sun. That's. And Phoenix wound up a month. 31 days of temperatures reaching at least 110. In that area, iconic Saguaro cactus. That's the. That's the dominant thing there, down into northern Mexico too, but it's. Certainly in that part of Arizona, they're collapsing. From the heat. Cactus, you know, can't take the heat. That's that's not the only desert foliage, it's. Crapping out because of the unbearable heat, the southwest is becoming unlivable. That's that's kind of the bottom line. That's that's where we're heading pretty fast too. Well, there was a piece on the fires in Canada Sunday, New York Times magazine, the general conclusion, and I quote, I think all of us are going to have to accept there's going to be a lot more fire. Yeah. As things stand, one fire. Burning off the coast of Netherlands for a week. Hundreds of E vehicles? Well, I think it was put out today. I think they can do an end today. There's a research outfit called Climate Central. This is a story on NPR last Wednesday that cities this is somewhat well known. Cities are 8 to 10 degrees hotter than surrounding rural areas. Do concrete parking lots and so forth. They are heat islands and getting back to Phoenix, that's that's. That's all of these things, plus urban sprawl. I mean, it's sprawls like LA. But it's hotter. And it's more concrete in Phoenix anyway. Part of that picture, and one of the very earliest note, if not the earliest civilization along with Egypt, is Miss Potamia. Yeah, cradle of civilization between the two rivers. You know, all that sort. Of stuff. Running dry. There's the peace in Sunday's New York Times. A climate warning from the cradle of civilization no less. Yeah. Where? Where it began and where it's ending and not the only place it's ending. Of course. It's a global thing. Well, you know, having a. Not a recording from last week if. Some of you of. Course you've got the show via radio signal or the. Or the instant streaming but. I heard from quite a lot of people that wait for the recording, that it's the middle of the night and the event or whatever it is. Or some other excuse, but so I might. I'm going to mention one or two things from last week's show, but otherwise I won't.

Speaker 3: Reproduce that I think I found the another copy of it. You know we we recorded too. So I just looked at the back up in the back up. Cool seems to play.

Speaker 1: Oh, I can put that up.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll send. I'll send it to you when we're done.

Speaker 1: Oh, OK. Great. Thank you, Carl. Well, never mind what I. Just said. I won't need to do that at all.

Speaker 3: Never, never mention it again.

Speaker 1: Well, unless it's my piece that I've read, that is mine and. It will be tempting. To read it again, just because it's mine. But I shouldn't. And he probably won't if unless we. Get a phone call or two. I won't be tempted at all. And that is 541-346-0645. Well, another staple of these grizzly times is the weekend is the time for the mass shootings. I don't know why, but in the past few months here at least a couple of months, it seems like. All of them, as far as I know, have been confined to pretty much Saturday night. Get togethers at the bar or any block parties or gatherings weekends. And that's when the gunfire breaks out. There were nine mass shootings over this past weekend. Yeah, on Monday, headline was. Yeah, the nine mass shootings rocked U.S. cities, leaving 5 dead 56 injured. That's now at the rate of two every single day. And that frequency is on the rise. And I mentioned that's what we know about. There might have been. At at this place in time, there might have been even a couple more we don't know about. And you know the plague of homelessness is it's just the same story. The worsening story. And you know the the focus is. We're going to have more resources for low income housing, right? We're going to have, we're going to dedicate and focus on that. The different ways to house people cheaply, you know, these tiny houses and all the. Rest of it. You know, and hopefully. Get to work on that. Not working. What's what seems to be left out is is a pretty darn obvious thing. The damage. A lot of these people are damaged. You know, it doesn't do any good to say, well, you could be on a week out of work for a week and then you're almost well, actually, not so much. And anywhere you go. I'm afraid we run into these people raving on the streets, right? That is a matter of just missing a paycheck or two. It's just not. These people are just out of it, you know? And I don't have any figures on that. But you know, it's it's kind of in your face and it's it's so. Sad. I mean you. How are you going to fix it? Just by? Building something if when the individuals involved or. They're not there. And that's the that's the really even worse. Part of it is. You know, wandering around if Chrissy wants them to have a place to sleep and. Maybe a bit of safety, but it's. You know that's not. The whole picture there. You know a big an in the. General Welter of all this? The conditions that are worsening, for example, last Friday. There was a story from the journal the Journal of American Medical. With Jewel of the American. Medicine Network open it's. A long name for a journal. All about how more US women are drinking themselves to death. The. The alcohol related deaths are on the rise overall. 12.5% annually for men. 15% up for women per year since 2018. You know, not a huge difference, but. The women have caught up in a past. Man in terms of. Alcohol fatality. You know. Why would that be, Chris? That's his question that. It doesn't much get asked. Well, some health stuff today. I've read a couple of pieces in the past few days about the rise in tick borne diseases, the rise of everything. I guess in terms of. In healthy conditions, but. From the CDC's emerging Infectious Diseases outfit, leprosy is on the rise. What next? Brain eating amoeba and you know all this stuff. I mean, this is still rare. It's not a big tide of leprosy. In this country, or pretty much the presumably anywhere else but Central Florida. Is a relative hot bed of leprosy. I'm not looking for the scariest stuff imaginable, but boy, it sure does. Little puppy in your face. And how much do we know about it? I mean, in different ways, the INTERCEPT reports that. Over 17,000 news media jobs. Or lost have been lost so far this year and you could say, well, a few fewer journalists with with something lives there. But as part of it, you know, lack of information, more centralized media.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 1: These trained radio complexes, for example, there's no local. Well, there certainly are local newspapers, local radio, but way less than there used to be. Uh, let's see. We got some strange recalls here 4. Trader Joe's projects products. Have been recalled in a week. This is of as of late last week. Cookies, soups. Falafel. May contain rocks or insects. Trader Joe's isn't that kind of upscale.

Speaker 3: Nice thing about that is that you know, if you find something that you like at Trader Joe, it's never gonna be there when you go back the next time. That's kind of like the hallmark of Trader Joe's. Yeah. You, you go there, you fight. Uh, man, I love this like cookie or whatever. And you and they're just they're they're famous for that.

Speaker 7: What do you know?

Speaker 1: Why is that?

Speaker 3: A winner, they get all their stuff. Packaged it's it's basically brand name stuff, but it's all packaged under the Trader Joe's brand, so if something isn't working, they can just. Well it it's very kind of nimble that. Way I guess.

Speaker 1: I've been in there, but not much.

Speaker 3: Man, I mean, if you like rocks. And Bugs get out of my way. Went in there.

Speaker 1: Well, yeah. Four times in. A week, I mean. That's pretty CD. And meanwhile, Ford is recalling 870,000. Of their famous F-150 pickup trucks, that's that's their big number. F-150 pickups? Faulty braking. No faulty parking brakes. Your truck might just roll down the hill, I guess. And another story. This is not new either, but. Domestic fish. It's a piece called the new Fish. The truth about farmed salmon and the consequences. We can. No longer ignore. Yeah, that's the deal. Simon Sacher in congenital ostly. The Norwegian riders, they think. And just this just keeps getting to be a worse picture, at least from. The stuff I read now and then. More parasites. Viruses. Yeah, I was just just thinking kind of stuff. And these fish are pinned up and I guess they pump chemicals in there. And one of the and the other problem. Is that gets out into the open seas, so wild fish. Then I have their health. Undermined. Not good. What is good about domestication? Well, you know, all this stuff is kind of trivial. The the only news is what happens with Trump. And of course you got the big one today. The big indictment for the January 6th thing. That's all there is in. The news, it's all of it. You know your mainstream cable news and all that. Remember when we were doing green anarchy magazine from 2000 to 2008? That's the exact length the exact years of George Bush, the George Bush presidency. We never once mentioned George Bush and remember, all the Liberals are going to leave the country because George Bush was the devil and. You know what? When you think back. What could be more silly? I mean, what? What? The hell difference does that make really I? Mean now isn't that much further down the road. How many years further and it's still the same old. Sneak charmer deal. We got to we got to talk about Trump and nothing else. Because this is the, this is the pure dystopia. It's the end of the world. Except, of course, it's worse with every president successively. You know, because it has to do and point out the more than obvious the whole thing is getting worse on a basic level. The basic drivers of all this. It doesn't matter all that much. Who is the president? Sorry. I know there are differences, but I mean, you know, look at the general. Well, it's a good thing there are some answers. Not that anyone's listening or. Maybe wanting to pay attention to that much, I don't know. This piece today this is popped up before. The small island of Tuvalu. Population 11,000. That island nation is midway between Australia and Hawaii. Will be out there in the middle of the South Pacific. And it'll be underwater fairly soon in a few decades completely underwater. It will then become a digital nation. Yeah, it will exist in the metaverse. To immortalize what was lost, in other words, a virtual Tuvalu. Just as good, maybe better. Than an actual. Tuvalu in reality and. Yeah, yeah. Well, to clinic Cliche can't make this stuff up. And here's a great add. This is the end of. The week I'm neglecting that. Infinity X10 add. And it shows the teenager watching his even younger brother. Jump around in his VR goggles. And the slave, the older boy. Watching them jump around. With the virtual reality thing in his head. And he says, when I was his age, I tried to keep up with the games. Now he is the game. And that is. Way more true than. I bet the ad people. They wrote that realize. Yeah, becoming the machine now. He is the game. That should scare the hell out of people, but I'm probably it's goes past people, unbeknownst to pretty much. But it is truer than true. Here's another one. This is a rival for. Out of the week. This is from something called Project Liberty. The Project Liberty Action Network no less, and they have a plan. Capital PLAN. And this takes off. From this is the part of the ad. It shows a young woman looks like at the dinner table. Maybe the breakfast table home from school. With a family. In the vicinity, sitting down around there. And she's not present. She's on her phone. You know, there's the indictment right there. And the ad goes on to point out that. This is bad, but you can't tackle this alone. OK. That's interesting so far. Well, now we come to Project Liberty Action Network. And this is what that amounts to. It's a movement to build a better Internet. Responsible development of the Internet, healthier social media. So she'll still be glued glued to the. Screen right? Why? Why wouldn't she be? The addictive nature, but. But no, it's it's not a matter of throwing all that out, that mesmerizing. Garbage. That's. Causing a mental health crisis pretty much by itself among the young, and we know we just have to kind of clean it up a little and we're concerned and we're responsible and. Yeah, what a con job. Man, that happens so often, right. You present the thing. Which everybody knows about already, and on some level, was spooked by. Is aware of it and it ain't good and everybody knows it, but. I can tackle this alone. And you can't tackle it at all. OK. Yeah, I got a little more tech stuff and then we got some. Political resistance kind of stuff after the break. There's a let's see, this is. Well, there's a lot of this at The Verge and the various places, but. One thing that's going on is that. Zuckerberg's meta? Is going to be coming out with. Personas 30 distinct quote personalities to help people connect and interact. In other words, like Siri, but they have different so-called, you know, one could be like Abraham Lincoln, another.

Speaker 2: One would be.

Speaker 1: Bono or whoever you want, I guess you can chat with an AI is what it boils down to. You know, it's just. Robots. Robots get smart robots with chatbot brains. That's another piece. Last Saturday. It's kind of all of the piece that's that's the project. And they're working on. There is a quest for an Everything app, an app to doodle, and that would be the state of unlimited interactivity. Yeah, the the connection, the interactivity. Which is pretty much extinct. You have machines interacting with each other, but. No human interactivity, really. Not much. Just. On the screen it's. It's that kind of a so-called the communication. Yeah, there's lots of ways to look at this. You can look at technology as a pandemic. You know, I was talking to somebody and they brought up the plague that canoe. Novel from the 50s and when you think about it, it's it's kind of it's kind of that sort of thing kind of plague like. It's it's kind of an occupation. You know you you are engulfed in this. Pandemic, engulfed in the technology and. What's the answer? What's? Where's the solution? Where's the way out? Well, they're closing the doors. They're trying to close the doors to that in any. Particular way, for example, last Wednesday at The Verge was a piece about how open AI. One of the very first people toward the end of last year to come out with the chat bots. You know has shut down its function to tell what's an AI product and what's not. About that and that kind of a distinction that's kind of primary. Well, they they used to have this thing which would detect. Which one it is? Is this AI speaking, so to speak or? Or it isn't. You know, it's a genuine thing. For one thing, it didn't work. It was way too inaccurate, but I think probably on a deeper level. They don't want, they don't want. The distinction they don't want you to. Till which is which were paused to consider what the difference is, what the consequences are. For such a distinction, well, see, we've got. What do we have for the break? We got some music.

Speaker 3: Arab strap.

Speaker 1: Armstrong. Yeah, that's a band. You certainly. Heard of?

Speaker 7: I see through your swagger, I sleep up your sickness. I find what is lost. And thrown away. Stop for your secrets, thy bend for your blood. I kill corruption. So I love son of the day. I'm a wallflower and the. Darkness and fireproof. Close. Undercover, undervalued, underpaid, right? The edges and the cracks behind the carbon. I am invisible. I am human right man.

Speaker 6: Those streets. These hands, they fell 3 streets up.

Speaker 7: And you're already dreaming. As I claw up your condom, as your syringe cracks underneath that boot. Crashed on the. Church passed them. Such a lover, such a liar. Such a. Unless the. Evidence destroyed. Your sleep will be sent. I'm your Angel. You're a countless.

Speaker 6: Through the streets. And discussion please.

Speaker 2: Healthy streets.

Speaker 6: So these. Healthy streets.

Speaker 1: That was true back after 18 years. It's about hopelessness and darkness, but in a fun way. Fun fun, very cool. Kind of like Leonard Cohen. A little bit with Scottish accent. Well, I've got a confession to make. Speaking of technology and melding with the machine, Cyborg wise. I have. I'm in a study about muscle. Toe and muscle fatigue. Pairing. Men and women. In their 20s, with old people like me. And check this out, Carl.

Speaker 3: Whoa, you're being monitored. You're chipped.

Speaker 1: I am. Yeah, I'm wearing this device to measure activity. So we'll I'll show those young. Upstarts who has muscle tone by surviving and getting paid by this. Doctor on campus. Pretty interesting stuff. Yeah. Anyway, see some news. You know, this is a. Refreshing thing partly during the some people there is a revitalization of enterprise print media underway. For example, rupture is a new scene rupture number one out of DC. Also, some new stuff along these lines from from New York City, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. So that's the East Coast deal. And I just ran into it, one that I've never heard of called dissolution. They didn't find out too much about it, but they're issue #2, which is new. One thing they. One thing contained in #2 is a piece called after the end of the world by Morgan Heenan. Which explores possibilities. You know, accompanying the end of civilization. I wanted to talk about. Plastic and uterine, but the. Copies haven't shown up by. I gave my copy away or I lost it somehow anyway, and we'll do that next week. Pretty sure. And Speaking of. Plastic and Ultera is a very excellent uncivilized podcast. By the same person. Responsible for Pru interview conversation with Jessica? Crew craft. Very in depth about her book about the need to be wild. Yeah, I'll be talking to her on the 15th in two weeks, so I don't want to. Get too much into that. Well, interesting gathering about a week ago. In southeast France, in the euro area, which is, which was a an anarchist stronghold for sure. Over the years since the 1900s, actually or 1800. At sand in the air, thousands showed up for a five day anarchist gathering there. In fact, they crowded the tracks. So much in the small place. That the train service was shut down and overrunning the place. Concerts, films, talks, dramatic performances, all kinds of stuff. And one sad thing that happened to and you consideration table. Was attacked as a little bit of a fight. I guess there's trash for carrying a feminist book. And one blessing religion, both of which had an anti radical Islam orientation, I understand. Assailants were possibly jihadists. I don't know if that's known for sure. You know, and another piece just today in the New York Times, this is a. Story that will go away. This is called gatherers, God game, women or hunters too. It's the same. Thing I've brought up because there've been some research on this that this one is by Katrina Miller. And it's a reexamination of gender roles. And hunter gatherer life. Yeah, making that point, that's. Undoing the the for so long this I mean this has been coming. This is in part is already happened. For example the somewhat famous man the Hunter Conference way back in 1966. And The upshot of that conference that anthropology conference was that that was a misnomer, that it was kind of. A joke man, the hunter. But the point there I think they recall reading about it mostly, was that most sustenance came from gathering 80% in general, which was largely women, so. It didn't it. Didn't really dislodge the gender stereotypes all that. Much, but now. It's and that's moved. Move forward. Well, here's something that's kind of remained the same and. I I don't want to. Dwell on this too much, but Ria sent me a. News about a book by Danny Nichols called cops Don't kill canine cops, do they? And I guess it starts out with the thing about police dog culture. And the brutality and the bullying involved in that. And I think it backs up. She reproduced chapter 3. So I only know. Really that much about the book? But. It seems to see that. This has to do with speciesism. Humans started to rule the roost. With hunting, that's the origin of bullying. That's where domination of nature and other species comes in. But before that it mentioned. The cheetah goes after the. The deer in the in the Savannah. But that's not a case of bullying. So it wasn't explained why humans hunting. Is is a matter of bullying in a fundamental way? Which? Lead us down the path to. The current horrible industrial. Domestication world. You know, and this it seems like this kind of retails the same story we were originally herbivores, but then then this happened in. And domestication or the the move to. To agriculture from private properties just to hire final final. Level of what started well before with hunting. Yeah, this is just another way of telling that story. And I don't see it as all that coherent or cogent. Quite frankly, if you think that's the answer, then you need to explain. I mean. Or at least address that turning point. Why? Why did that happen and why is that the original bullying hunting? I mean if. Moving away from being vegan, you know that's the sin anyway I. You can repeat that forever, but I don't think that holds up. In terms of the literature. I really don't anyway. Thank you. Anyway, we we can maybe talking about it some more sometime. Well, black flags anarchist review, but this is the annual I think this is the annual. Thing it's the summer. 2023 issue this is a syndicalist Zen. So tired and irrelevant. Virtually nothing from the past 100 years. It's mostly from the 1800s. Although a recent issue. Had a piece about David Graver just gushing over. In which? Might make one pause to wonder from that perspective. Why is he so fantastic? Yeah, maybe because it was. Just weak reformist nothingness. He, of course, was an editor of in these times, a very tepid reformist socialist thing. OK, I'm going to not beat that dinners anymore. And there are so many interest book fairs. There's been an influence of return. Post pandemic, a bunch of them going on, they've been reborn. But what is the politics? What does the anarchist mean? And I've? You know, I've been. Can you nasty to the point of wondering? Lots of innocuous will be the last to know. And be the last to catch on Trump ski apparently we'll never get it. What this is really all about the nature of civilization and all that stuff. Technology. That's. No, no, it's this horrid old stuff that wasn't valid in the 1st place because it never questioned industrialism, never questioned mass production, which caused mass society. And has caused us to live in this. Condition of Amy and. Calling us. Somebody asked me about the FBI, whether I've had any news on my FOIA request, my Freedom of Information request. Which I started up for the. Benefit of the archive of my stuff. I haven't heard from them in two years. The last one last letter was from the FBI two years ago. Well, we're looking into it. You know, it's how many years altogether, I think it's been some like four years or I'm I have to guess. Maybe more than that. When I started this, maybe five years, I'm not sure. Yeah, they just just to run around, I guess their policy, no matter who's president, by the way, right is to not do anything with these requests. Or another option would be. I get this gigantically redacted bunch of stuff that I'll have to pay for the for the printing of the copying of it, and it won't have anything. Who knows? I don't really care much, but. That's been a little mini saga there. And somebody asked, is anything happening with my memoir? And the answer is no, nothing nothing is happening and for a good reason. I have to confess it isn't book length. What I wrote is just the skeleton of a book, so I'm going to put that. On the shelf. Maybe return to it in a few months? I only have maybe 25,000 words. That's not book length. And they had to. But the the length never came up during these. Interactions and so. I I sort of forgot about that aspect that factor in. Anyway, so I got to get to work on that or find a biographer or some other way of getting out of it.

Speaker 0: But I.

Speaker 1: Think there's more I can discuss and more happening since I stopped writing this thing. You know, quite a few months ago. And just get back to work on that and. Might be a good idea and then it would be book length and the full house will publish it pretty much sense. So it's just a matter of that's like a pamphlet. 2025 thousand words, you know, not. Much more than that. So that stands. That's where that stand. Few action things here. July 13th, the car belonging to the Nature DJI Company, which plunders the earth, was burned in Barcelona. On July 11th, an incendiary attack on the humbug. Mine transformer which parallelized operations. New juice to operate the mid horrible mining project in the western part of Germany. On July 10th. I'm kind of doing this in reverse over my nose and my 2 BMW's were torched in Munich. In support of climate activists facing prosecution. Yeah, I don't have much today or no yesterday. This was posted July 31st and Bridges Lane 5. Famous disputed crude oil and natural gas pipeline. To the tune of millions of gallons going through there every day in the Great Lakes Region of Canada, Wisconsin. Was shut down. By closing 2 valves. And the perpetrators? Let them know that this was happening, so it didn't. It wasn't going to blow up or. Kill anyone and just close the whole thing down. And I don't know the status of. That I don't know. How long that's lasting, but sounds like a simple deal to just shut it off. And let him know at the other end that's. Ain't happening. One last chance to call grab up that phone at 541-346-0645. I have to announce this phone this out this afternoon. Catherine won't be available this month. Due to various factors, family stuff and other travel plans and. Events that she's dealing with. Yeah, she won't be down here to cohost until September. And yeah, I'm missing that. And. It will be good to get. Back with her to. Do we show together every month? Well, that's about it. We're going to just we got a system of a down, we got some music to finish it up. Thanks for listening. I hope you're managing the heat and the fires. Take care. You last minute, Charlie. Artemis.

Speaker 0: You know how it is.

Speaker 1: Now I'm glad to get you in. How you doing?

Speaker 0: Yeah, I think.

Speaker 8: I'm good. I think it's still playing. Music though I'm. I'm listening on the the. The Internet version of it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Ohh yeah, it's delayed.

Speaker 8: OK. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So I guess I just wanted to hop in real quick mostly because yeah asked, but. You were talking about the syndicalists and how it's all kind of. It's all nonsense, 19th century stuff. And I guess, you know, I've been having a little bit more debate, I guess with other with other anarchists recently. And the one question I keep coming to is like, what are what are you afraid? Of like, why are you unwilling to to go further? And they're like, well, because this is what anarchism is. And I think that's that's such a a cowardly answer that, you know, they're willing to advance the cause of feminism, decolonization or other issues and to anarchism. But they're not willing to to advance that critique. And so my curiosity is, why do you think anarchists? Or so. So many anarchists are unwilling to incorporate anti civilization. Is it because it's too uncomfortable that that left anarchism really isn't that radical, or is it? Or is it something else?

Speaker 1: Boy, that's a good question. That's just. It's fixing it's uh. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I've I've just. It's such a puzzle. I've I tried to start working on the topic of conspiracy theory, and I'm not equating leftism with conspiracy theory. But, you know, people can get stuck in ways that, you know, don't really make a lot of sense. I mean, what what is the relevance? Do you see? With with sticking with something that's nobody's interested in, let's face it, it doesn't correspond to the world. I mean, what's up with that? I don't know.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I I just. Keep coming back to that because I'm writing this piece. Does Anarcho primitivism still matter and it's kind of like a rhetorical credit dialogue kind of thing, like responding to possible answers and like even this idea that like, well, well, primitivism never mattered right or whatever or this this idea that it's just it's it's anarchism in name only. And that's such an unintelligent. Response because it's like if you take green anarchy magazine and that was the biggest at the time, the biggest anarchist magazine in North America. So it's like, fundamentally that doesn't work if it's the biggest anarchist magazine. Don't tell me all those people weren't anarchists that subscribed, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, sorry, that's not true.

Speaker 8: Right. It still just doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. It's it's funny. Yeah, I guess we'll find out. I mean, that's as it as usual, you know, stay tuned kind of the. Thing and. You know we we're trying to figure out what what is a foot? You know, what is? You know, I was talking about ferns presentation two nights ago and. Lovely questioning, lots of very, very lively. It was just and that's that's that none of that stuff has been. Publicized all that much and it was mostly of kind of a studio thing for taping it for Community TV. We we were never expecting big crowds. Alright, anyway, that's since it's been. Kind of nice to. See you. You know, you you wonder what it what? This is it not on people's minds? I mean, have you? You haven't noticed popular culture. It's all about collapse, you know, it's all about the wars of technology and not to mention the news itself. You know, chat bots just occupying, you know, taking over people's brains. On jobs and everything else, and what are these people? What sort of time zone do they happen to be in that?

Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting. Because these men talk about how it's how a lot. Of media tries. To recuperate some of the anti tech feelings are anti self feelings but like Black Mirror or even like these movies in in in TV shows or books that are so fascinated with like collapse like oh and post apocalyptic world it's like is that not like an undercurrent like what is the subconscious meaning of that that people are so interested in that. Some people would rather say, oh, I'd rather live in a zombie apocalypse than capitalism. And I mean, that's some people. Yeah, it's a little bit of an. Exaggeration, but how? How? Upset and dehumanized people feel that they rather live in a world that you can be eaten alive by zombies than now you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the general displeasure, to put it mildly with. With the whole technological immersion is, you know that's front and center, I mean and well, especially among younger people I guess. But you know that's do you think that's they're making it up or something. I mean they they're chafing it. You know so many ways in in horrible ways you know on a visceral level. Every day and. They they're just not interested. Yeah, I mean. That's just seems kind of brain dead, quite frankly. And these people, you know, I've got to my way sometimes to trash on Trump ski or graver or both. But, you know, they they never get it. They just don't. They just it's an ideological thing and that's the nature of that. Least right there. I mean, that's the ideology formation has long been a big problem. You know, you get stuck on something, whatever it is, and you can't see anything else. It's a it's a mystery.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it it's so interesting. And I'm not gonna lie every time I like to call in and, you know, especially if it's graver related, you know, I just, I have to admit, sometimes it's a little funny when you, when you get upset about them because I feel it. But. It's so it's so. I can't not. I I have to admit it's entertaining when, because it's very obvious. The deep critique you have, Chomsky and graver, these people that are just, you know, they're shilling. Civilization. That's as simple as it is, and that they what they do is academically. Untrue. And as Jamie talked about on the podcast, that they should have lost their jobs. Like Gregor and window shop. For their books should have lost like. He's of the. Thing they should have lost their their jobs for that to how dishonest that book is.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He sure. Proves the depth of that, isn't he? That's wonderful.

Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll let you go because you only have a few minutes, but I felt, you know, I. Had to do my duty and it's all in.

Speaker 1: Ohh thanks. Yeah, a little harassment and you rose to the. Challenge. Thank you, man.

Speaker 8: Yeah, you have a great night.

Speaker 1: Take care.

Speaker 5: Stop your eyes. To stop. Psycho, OK.

07-25-2023

[audio]

Where is it NOT burning? Oppenheimer...and Barbie: radiation vs. a plastics world. Which is worse? Spread of mass shootings. Online all the time (mental health crisis). Fake summit re: controlling AI. Grunts who power AI, problems of EVs. "Yes, Collapse" by JZ. Fern at Sam Bond's 7/30. Resistance reports catch-up.

07-18-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Globe is a furnace. Nowhere to hide. "US Sets Record Mass Killing Deaths." Daniel Everett interview: Fidias Podcasts. JZ on Uncivilized Podcast. with Artxmis and friends. Chinese youth are "lying flat." Douglas Hofstadter is horrified by AI. "Stop the [tech] Carousel, I Want to Get Off," Houston Chronicle. Myth of AI as 'just a tool.' New black metal from indigenous Sga'gahsawah. One call.

Speaker 1: As a snowflake, I looked over, I saw you next to me.

Speaker 2: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host, John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of kW, BA, Eugene or anyone else.

Speaker 3: That's right. You're listening to kW, VA, Eugene. It is Tuesday, 7:00 and time for Anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John and Catherine tonight. And our number, as always, is 541-346-0645. We have some music to get. Us going from Bambara.

Speaker 4: Got a tattoo? Meaning this inside of the lower lip. She pulls it down. So she. Pulls out a window of watching. The sunset behind the figures of bending trees. Collection of wind chimes, clear wild throws and minor cheese.

Speaker 2: July 18th and the communio. Hello, Kevin. Hello. Glad you're here.

Speaker 5: Glad to be here, been out and about summer time.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Wow. In about, but it could be hotter here, 97 degrees is the temperature of the water in places that off South Florida, 97 degrees in mid-july, that's. It's almost too hot to get into your tub.

Speaker 5: The the weather stories and reports are very sobering. You know, I think Rome I was in Rome like two years ago. And it was so unbelievably hot. And they're talking 40 degrees Celsius and but now they I think today or tomorrow they're talking 42 or 40. Like the equivalent of 107 and it's just like holy Cow, a city in those temperatures is.

Speaker 6: Well, when it gets to 160 Fahrenheit, that's the cut off. That's when humans die 160. We're heading there.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they there are all these selfie type pictures of of tourists in Death Valley posing in front of the temperature sign. With fine looking faces, there must be a.

Speaker 3: I saw some of the Rangers do that. They're all. Smiling. Like what?

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And with their hats in their full clothing, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah, the full uniform, they just get out of the vehicle for. About like 10 seconds.

Speaker 5: Exactly, exactly. They don't show you that these are not moving images, yeah.

Speaker 6: 19 consecutive days of temperatures 110 or more in Phoenix. That's getting unlivable.

Speaker 5: Texas, same thing and then floods. You know, the the other half Friday death. They'll drown, you know.

Speaker 6: Yeah, there have been stories about how there's no place anymore that isn't subject to these flash floods come out of nowhere. You can get a gigantic amount of rainfall in an hour. And you know another part of the warming that I never heard about. This was in the middle of last week. The underground temperatures, urban temperatures. Underneath the street. Way hotter than it used to be since the mid 20th century now. Making things unstable beneath all those structures, those tall buildings and so forth at risk. 100 people.

Speaker 5: Well then, of course the heavy rains are sociated with the warming, and so that there, you know, is in the US we're seeing it hand in hand.

Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Speaking of calls, I don't know. I don't think we have one, but it's 541-346-0645. OK. Was hoping it wasn't somebody saying we got no signal. We got no.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Technical problems. Nope.

Speaker 6: It wasn't that.

Speaker 3: Obviously someone's listening the. Somebody's listening.

Speaker 6: Good, good, somebody.

Speaker 5: Hello somebody.

Speaker 3: Hello somebody if they if they if they want to go on the air they are more than welcome to. Call back.

Speaker 6: Yeah, great. AP story Sunday, another thing that isn't. Brand new, even less so they. Story US sets record mass killing deaths 140. In the first half of 2023, you know, up to the end of June. 28 incidents of mass shootings. And unrelenting tools, the way they put it.

Speaker 5: The mass shootings and the association with holidays is also you see a dramatic increase in in that I have this is an old article and I think the holiday they were talking about was Juneteenth, or perhaps it was Memorial Day, but mass shootings in Chicago, Baltimore. Philadelphia, New York, San Francisco and Milwaukee in Chicago area alone, 60 people shot and the you know, we've just passed July 4th I don't have. A compilation or a summary of what the most recent reports are, but but you know, just like the floods and the hot weather, the mass shootings and holidays like the the two extremes, the polarization or whatever, the desire for connection and then the acute. Alienation that that pulling your assault rifle out and just wiping out hordes of people you know is in place of fireworks, apparently. But but correlation relationships, you know.

Speaker 6: Yeah, weekend gatherings. It's been a staple. Even more so lately, I think the, you know Saturday night get togethers, block parties. You know, gatherings at bars and so forth. You know, I ran into this whole theme of hopelessness or. Member lying flat that term. Applied to China, especially young people. Lying flat, meaning avoidance of work. Also avoidance of relationships. And at the present is 21% unemployment among the young that's in part. That's conscious, that's, you know, avoiding work.

Speaker 5: That's China.

Speaker 6: Yeah, this is a piece 2 days ago in in several places actually. And they were, they were tying it to a certain kind of hopelessness. And it I don't know, made me think of that hikikomori phenomenon in Japan. It was called that, where younger people just stay in their room for decades. Possibly.

Speaker 5: Right, right. Isolating. Yes. So wasn't it associated? The Japan phenomenon is associated with technology and video games. There was just life in that closed, confined model. Incarcerate yourself in unreality.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Meanwhile, there are more. Fuel spills and. A fairly popular one in the recent months, the good old. Train derailments. There was one yesterday in southeast Pennsylvania. In northern Alabama over the weekend between they don't know yet or they're not saying. Between 3000 and 5000, gallons of diesel fuel were released into the Tennessee River. When a tugboat sank. Northern Illinois or Alabama? Well, we're going to switch to green energy and it'll. Be cool and. From inside Climate News, you know one one of the things is relatively better hydropower. And you know in the north and the northwest in Canada is a fair amount of dams. You know, you get to get the cheaper electricity without burning fossil fuels, what turns out. Not so clean an energy source after all. It was a big story about the emissions that come from. Arise from the reservoirs. These giant reservoirs like Lake Mead and the other ones that are backed up behind the dam. Yeah, not very healthy, that's. It seems like it's it produces. Various kinds of emissions just you think? Well, it's just a big old man made Lake, you know, that's. It's not a problem, but. It is.

Speaker 5: The cost to. Creating our own lakes, no doubt that you, you know, related articles that that it's an aspect of this whole recycling and green energy stuff that I hadn't really thought about or been aware of, but. An article about a texts and making billions buying cast off wells from big companies and it's a similar phenomenon to in Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania, where the rotted out empty deserted towns that left. Mounds of slag, behind, then a whole new industry, comes in and recycles. That slag sifts through it, stirs it all up again, to to. To harvest what was left behind before so a new technology comes into claim even further and and and the whole, you know, the the whole self-serving recycling and green energy just refuses. It obscures the fact that the energy dependence. The energy addiction of the civilization we live in is insatiable. You know it's insatiable, and the planet doesn't. Does not really have the resources to even continue to try and satiate that monster. And it's really so much like an addiction to an opioid drug, you know, it's just like there's no end to the amount of energy. You required to live this dysfunctionally the single planet Earth doesn't have it. And so now we have to mine asteroids or, you know, explore space. But but you the dialogue or the the talk is supposed to be well, how can you know? We need to harvest wind, we need to. It's the sun we need to you know this, that alternative sources and and one that's very much thought about and discussed that you never see commentary on it is the nuclear fission fusion thing and the the the. Well, I never can get it straight. Dyslexia, but the one nuclear. Fusion is combining the atoms and blowing up. You know the mushroom cloud effect and fission is allegedly the recycle, the use the waste to produce energy by forcing them together, reuniting and and the. And a lot of research, a lot of money is going into that as a hope to always solve the energy crisis, which is. It's an addiction. You know. How how are you going to solve it? It's called cold. Or rewilding.

Speaker 6: Until it's all used up. That's of course the thesis of Joseph Tanner's. Wonderful book, the collapse of complex societies. It'll just keep going until the parasite consumes its host. End of game. You know that that'll be till they chase it to the end and and it's gone.

Speaker 5: And and that that's why the geologists are talking about, well, this is now we can look and we can identify this is the age of the Anthropocene.

Speaker 6: Seabed ocean floor mining. You know that's coming on strong and anyone can see that. What a disaster that is to marine life. I mean, just to further. Excrescence and the same old project the same old will to keep doing what shouldn't have been started in the first place. Yeah, I we were talking about when does it become more? Not only well, more publicly obvious. The the The the real questions involved here, you know and and there's there are beginnings of that, but. Nowhere near enough. At present.

Speaker 5: Nowhere near enough, but I I would put in, put in a couple. Call out to anarchistnews.org. I was. I was surprised to be looking at it a couple days ago and and pleasantly surprised for the tone of when they put it online. Page one there was there. Topic of the week, which generally is quite lame. In my opinion was about anarchist mentors. Somebody needs to be invested in something larger than themselves to want to be a mentor or to have one. And the comment section was short, sweet and it didn't just go on and just go down to just pointless. Inane comments not relating to anything. It seemed pretty pretty well. Either people are exercising some. Controls or you know it just seemed more useful, and then a review they had reprinted there. Well they they reprinted that you had the your interview with the Uncivilized podcast. They put up an access to that and I thought that that was very positive podcast. And I thought they're disseminating it was was good to see was.

Speaker 6: Even listing my books, I was shocking. I've stopped sending the radio, the radio broadcast used to send it every week and they never put it up. Maybe I'll resume sending it to him in case. So you might want to share it.

Speaker 5: Well, and I think I think too is that that some of even that interview reflects of a new generation coming up with interest, you know, not just coming up or anticipated but present and on the scene where there's a revival you would you talked to. Well, you did the interview with the uncivilized folks and I think there was something else I saw. But but where you're seeing under 30s and never trust anyone over 30 right under 30 year olds actively. Being participants and engaging and promoting and contributing to. Discussion, dialogue, writing, disseminating ideas, criticizing in civilization, and understanding the the limit using methods that are not reliant on technology. High tech. You know, type things and and a lot more face to face engagement. And more primitive technologies being used to disseminate information and engage in dialogue.

Speaker 6: That was very heartening. And as you say, the you the age that four of us talking, three of whom were in ages ranging from 18 to 24, if you put them all together, they would. Be close to my age, you know, and add them all up. But yeah, wonderful. Very, very sharp younger folks.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just the way they conducted the interview, I think was part of what? Was a breath of fresh air. You know, it didn't seem all stuck in old debates and old dialogue, but it it seemed, really, I thought, quite fresh. They also did an article. Crash goes the Alpha Belt alphabet time for a new one by Ian Bloomberg Inch, who I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, but it was. It was a reprint of 1/5 state review of the the. Breaking the alphabet book by Sasha Angel and that whole promoting discussion of of the written word and the limitations and and in a light hearted, refreshing way that was really good to see and and I I thought one of the lines thought that.

Speaker 6: It's great to see.

Speaker 5: I guess it would. I guess it's give credit to Ian or something, but the no the author, the reviewer advocates casual experimentation with this new alphabet because it's I think it's pretty pretty easy. It's like 100 letters on it that are visual. But, but the idea was quote paint situation as slogans in the bathroom of your local McDonald's or coded messages pointing the way to Croatoan, Crow, Crow. I never pronounce it never that. But anyway. But. But just as an exercise.

Speaker 6: I don't know how to pronounce it.

Speaker 5: Whatever. It's like a lighthearted, appealing Hooray, you know.

Speaker 6: I think it's somewhat connected anyway, just today via a friend of mine in Canada. Thank you. Jonathan, interview with I won't go on and on about this, but Daniel Everett, he wrote the book called Don't Sleep. There are snakes, incredible story. And this guy. He's not a young person, but a great, refreshing, modest take on all this. He to make a Long story short, was a. A Christian missionary who from a kind of unhappy home became a Christian, became a missionary, in fact, went to the Amazon to translate a certain people. 'S uh. Language into. In other words, to usher in the gospel, you know to convert, convert them. And what he discovered was it just blew his mind. He discovered this is a language that doesn't have any tenses really or doesn't have recursion. That's the key thing. Recursion. Meaning you've got two different conditions in the same sentence. Mary says Jane is home. Well, it's two different things, but and Chomsky said, every single language has that. That's a fundamental of language. Language, of course, is universal and innate. You know, the whole dogma of of Chomsky and thing which made him rich and famous starting in the 50s anyway. And he says they don't have recursion. They don't have it. And and all these people just said no, that's wrong. And they sent people to to talk to these people. They agreed to, you know. Have them ask some questions and go through all this stuff and tape all this. And and they could not. They there's no recursions in their language and yet they have a fantastic community without technology. And this guy just he just dropped the Christianity part. His wife is still a missionary. But anyway he it just changed his entire thinking. It just. The through the Chomsky dog Mount of the water and it's still going on. And he actually talked about that. He said, oh, I've talked with Trump's get length because he wouldn't give up. He he just couldn't believe it. And and finally, Chomsky apparently said, well, I wasn't really saying that there's that there's always recursion. And that's that's exactly what he said. Decades, you know. Anyway, he was very refreshing. It's. I don't. I can't remember the name of it. I didn't bring any notes about it, but I think you could find it easily. Daniel Everett interview. It's very new. In fact, at MIT, there was a whole. There was a whole thing about his thinking about Everett thinking. And he, he said, well, nobody wants to be the center of a controversy. Very modest guy, you know. And I'm thinking, oh, I know a lot of. People who would love to be the center of a controversy anyway, it's it's very worth and I I think I would disagree with parts of his whole approach, but it's it's wonderful to. Check out his thinking.

Speaker 5: And he's a former Christian missionary. That was, that was one of the quotes I'd written down. I wanted to give once again on Ian's review quote. All religion comes from different forms of tribal mysticism and all mysticism, mysticism.

Speaker 0: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Is a critique of language and linear logic and that that is, I would say. Amongst the newer voices that I find coming up, in all, there's an interest and there's an understanding of a role for mysticism and spirituality, which is. Been absolutely absent and looked down upon by the demand for a secular society that that's nation state based civilization and so so you know I like Ian's wording and you gave me an opportunity to look back at my notes and and.

Speaker 6: There you go.

Speaker 5: Bring that up again. So thank you.

Speaker 3: Got Artemis on the phone.

Speaker 6: Artemis speak of the devil.

Speaker 8: Hey, how you doing?

Speaker 6: Hello there. Good, good. How are you?

Speaker 8: Good. I'm I'm doing well. I just wanted to throw some quick things out first. Well, it was great having you on. We all really enjoyed it and the oldest of us is 25 in fact. So we are indeed very young. The second thing is I was the the one that uploaded it to anarchist news and had the description with your books in it. I'm not trying to drag intercourse. Is there anything but I? I uploaded it, I mean it's still like they have to accept it, which I think is nice because sometimes I even upload your or I submit your energy radio segment and they don't always accept them. So it was nice to know that they accepted the the. Interview on the site.

Speaker 6: Really. Yeah. Maybe there's been a cool over there or something, I don't know. But it was nice to see.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I thought it was great. And and also your episode on her channel is the best performing episode since 2021 for our podcast. So I thought that was really great, a lot of. People have enjoyed it.

Speaker 6: Oh wow, very nice.

Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah and.

Speaker 6: Even if it gets more hits or something.

Speaker 8: Within the first depth, the most amount of views in 24 hours since 2021, yeah.

Speaker 5: Huh. How about how about on the likes ratio?

Speaker 8: Yeah, which is pretty great.

Speaker 4: That one that.

Speaker 8: One I don't know, because most people don't really quote UN quote like the video. But what's really funny? I'm not sure if you checked the comments, but we had someone who identifies as a right wing and a primitivist means like oh, I get it. Like we we can't all come together about this. Fine. I'm removing my subscription. I'm. Like wow. OK, bye. No one cares.

Speaker 7: So much, huh?

Speaker 8: Not an airport. You don't need to announce your departure.

Speaker 6: Right. Don't call us.

Speaker 8: Right. And I don't know how explicit I was like, I don't think you really we're not leftists because it's like, why is it just a bunch of leftists laughing? I was. Like, did you listen to the podcast?

Speaker 6: Yeah, that same old dumb thing. It's it's kind of amazing how that still sticks and and, you know, I don't want to return to trashing anarchist news. Well, maybe I do. But no, that that's just a perennial thing. Well, if you, if you have this critique of the left, you must be on the right. Ohh boy, that's just so frustrating. What? What are you talking about?

Speaker 8: And what's even great is that those on the right are, like you could cheat me. You must be on the.

Speaker 6: Left like. No. Yeah, no, same error really.

Speaker 8: Right. And there's also the follow up you're talking about Daniel Everett. If this is the one you sent me earlier, it's called language from the Amazonian jungle to ChatGPT is the name of it. It was uploaded 4 days ago by someone named Phidias podcast on YouTube.

Speaker 6: Thank you. Thank you. Great name for it.

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I listen, I. I listened to it in the car with the coworker on the way back and. She was so interested in it. I thought it was funny I. Was trying to get her onto that a little.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it it was good. Because I think part part of the appeal, the interviewer. I'm. I'm not putting down the interviewer, but he was having a hard time keeping up. So in other words, it was it was fairly obvious questions or simple questions. So you didn't get all entangled and and confused about. Where he was going or where he was coming from, he because he has very basic questions and I thought that was very helpful.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was great. I mean, I think he was really humbled, though. It's almost funny because it's like, yeah, MIT had a whatever. In my honor, I'm like, wow.

Speaker 6: OK, sounds pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, kind of modest. Type not. He didn't really. And you know initially when that book don't sleep, there are snakes. I mean, he reaped the wheel. Wind whirlwind. Excuse me. The you know, you were always hearing about the Chomsky mafia. Just crushed the guy. I just hated him and did everything they could to. You know, to attack the guy and everything and so. But guess who sort of won the day, I would say.

Speaker 8: Right. Right, right. I mean, no, so you know it's every time I hear about Chomsky and his, for lack of better word, his cult, it's just. I'm never surprised at this point. If you think basically that fairy dust came from space and gave us a language organ, I'm not going to listen to a lot. Of what you say very seriously.

Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody who has zero interest.

Speaker 6: The culture and along comes somebody like Everett who? This not only a linguist, but an anthropologist and also a philosopher, I would say.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 6: And you know, like the culture has nothing to do with language. You can found an entire theory or basic theory of language with no contact of, of cultural input. You know that really on the face of it that just seems crazy.

Speaker 8: Right. Right. Yeah. And, you know, even Everett mentions, you know, he's. I'm not saying that these people don't understand recursion because they have recursion within their stories. It's not present in their language. You know, it's present in the stories they tell. But of course, Chomsky won't acknowledge that cause he doesn't care about stories. He only cares about the grammar.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, just as structural things. According to his view.

Speaker 8: Right. And so I mean, I mean it's funny because Everett only talks about Chomsky for less than 10 minutes, but precedes to totally deconstruct the entirety of Chomsky's idea with, you know, in a very like you said. Humble and you can. See, there's a little bit of an attitude going on, right, but it's still very light. Passionate and I was professional and.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: I like that a lot.

Speaker 6: You know, it's so funny talking about the left. You know that that thing that keeps coming up the. What's wrong with the left? You know the post left isn't enough, you need to be further away from that critically and well, here's Mr. Leftist Chomsky with it with, I would say, a fully reactionary theory. I mean you you could imagine it easily coming from some right wing person. Not not a professional leftist.

Speaker 8: Right. I mean again, this this total essentialism, right, that you're just you're saying, oh, we are definitely this way, you know, and it's it's human exceptionalism too, because, you know, every even points out. I don't think that it's impossible for animal, other animals to have languages that we haven't found it. But Chomsky is very explicit no. Only humans can have language. Right. You know, it just pushes this, this human essentialism and exceptionalism. In such a funny way. But of course, as we said, you know, my advice for people to listen, then I'll hop off is, you know, every very much seems to be trying to find language where there might not be even saying erectus headed because, I mean, it's the it's the whole thing that you've been talking about for for decades. Is that to be intelligent? Means to have symbols and to have symbols. Means you're intelligent and because home erectus without any debate was intelligent, therefore he must have had symbols and therefore must have had language.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's a good way to put it. In other words, he had his, I would say is a pretty loose definition of symbols and symbols. To come up with that. But anyway, it's at at the very least it's certainly worth thinking about, and he has got a lot to offer.

Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, but yeah. This has been great you all. Have a great night, alright?

Speaker 6: Thanks for calling, friend.

Speaker 3: Of course.

Speaker 6: Well, let's see. Maybe we can squeeze in. A music break. That is some ice mountain. The album is called Upper Lower, and it certainly includes. A certain editor of Oak magazine. Wonderful stuff. Where were we? That was a good call from Artemis. You know, we I'm sure we'll. What time we have, let's get into the technology question. I just wanted to throw out this is somewhat I think this is somewhat typical. I got the latest Stanford magazine. That was kind of a big article called me myself and I. Artificial intelligence has entered a new era. Here's how we stay human. I mean that subtitle already tells you it's. Kind of goofy, maybe, but it's it's about, you know, all the chat bot stuff and. But it just much much like a lot of this commentary and it's another thing that's sad because it's so threadbare and off base. The whole point about it's just a tool, it's a helpful tool. It can be great. You know it can do all these things. So let's just remember it's just a tool. And on and on. Anyway, the piece toward the end. Article says. We can see AI as occupying a place in the process, not unlike that of the humble paintbrush. There's a simple tool you have a. Paint brush and then it goes on to the kind of drizzly, fading out kind of platitudes and so forth. It's a question of how do we want to live with AI as part of our lives? Well, obviously, it assumes that we want it to be part of our lives. Will be part of our lives. There's no question about that.

Speaker 5: Or how much is it already a part of our lock that's.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 5: You know.

Speaker 6: Right, right it. Up to us how we use it and so forth and the last in the last paragraph, our future with AI and all the myriad ways that already is changing and will change humanity is up to us. Yeah, it's just up to. Us, you know. It's just a tool.

Speaker 5: That's right. Call in will determine the future of. ChatGPT by. Call it in. It's up to us, you know.

Speaker 6: This could have a happy face philosophy, right? It's just, you know.

Speaker 5: That's that's right. Sounds good. Why not? It it could be up to us. It's just a. Tool, you know.

Speaker 6: It's, yeah, upbeat. Let's not, you know, get tripped out on this stuff. I mean, after all, it isn't taking over humanity or. Maybe replacing it I mean?

Speaker 5: Do you like paintbrushes? You don't object to them, do you?

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, if you if you. Case closed. Yeah, you.

Speaker 5: There you go. Well, I wanted to get back, not language, but organizational ability and give a hats off to the orca whales we used to every once in a while, hit on their theme, nature strikes back and so watch out for the bison in Yellowstone. Or beware if you're around. Bison showed little respect like you should have all along. And then the old orcas. Word came in from Spain. The packs of killer whales were now routinely attacking sailboats, cabin cruisers and yachts, and in several cases sinking them. Killer whales, in fact, are not whales, but dolphins. So you know, watch out for Flipper. Popular theory on how this got started was a female orchid nicknamed by marine biologists. White Gladys once had a bad experience with yachtsman and has now taught her offspring how to disable the. And in fact, other orcas off the Spanish coast coast that are not even related to her may have gotten into the act, and they're reducing yachts to splinters. Then they had some attack in off the coast of Scotland, and apparently someone told me that they. There are videos online of old Gladys teaching other whales, her offspring, how to attack the. The boats how to disable the yachts? So is it the one that one of the lines? But what if other species began mimicking the whales and hitting closer to home? So yeah, watch out for the birds, right?

Speaker 6: Hmm. Amazing. Can't have that. Yeah. Nice to hear about that. You know this whole stuff about the onrushing magnitude and immersive quality of the technology there was last Friday. There was a regular column. David Brooks here was kind of the centrist op-ed guy at the New York Times. Wrote a piece called human beings are soon to be eclipsed. Is a little late getting down to it, talking about largely talking about Douglas Hoffstetter, he wrote. Is it very popular writer? Few years back he wrote Godel, Escher, Bach, which is about the glories of technology and AI, not a threat, you know. It's a. He's one of several people that made a pretty penny actually peddling these books that were pretty well received. You know, that was the main. Trend or? Tied. But now he's horrified. Yeah, he's he's just uh. Not he's changed his tune completely. And and he wonders what is being human even mean now and. So that's nice to see because he was a pretty big name a while ago.

Speaker 5: I'm not clear what was he horrified at.

Speaker 6: AI chatbot stuff all of this onrushing stuff, you know.

Speaker 5: Oh, OK.

Speaker 6: And that relates to the Brooks title of the piece. We're being eclipsed by it. This ain't just a tool. This is not quite that, you know, and. And then there was a piece. And I was lucky to get this is this is from the Houston Chronicle last Friday. Jimmy and Sweden sent me this actually piece called Stop the Carousel Carousel. I want to get off by David Rafferty. Yeah, that's the title. Tells you everything. Technology has made life worse. It just has it just to look. At it and. But sadly it has a it has a dumb ending which is more or less. Oh well, it won't go away so. But but the thrust of it is is is. Along with all of the other usual stuff, there was a full page ad in last Wednesday's New York Times from an outfit called Upwork. How AI improves work. It is guess what? A wonderful tool. Meanwhile, people are getting every generation is less skilled, knows how to do less, you know, has less. Capacities being de skilled all the time as we speak. Good at. You know, finding out what you what the screen tells you, but that's about all you'll know how to do. But no, Upwork sees it quite differently.

Speaker 5: That lands like today's Today's Wall Street Journal front page. Activists move quickly to shape AI guide. Guardrails basically, you know there is, I think there's general. Awareness that this is not going to serve us well, there's general concern, lack of knowledge, lack of investigation into how far it's part of our lives already. What are the multiple applications? Et cetera, et cetera. But but the orientation of what to do tends to be have a meeting and set up standards or something. And I think it in guard rails around generative AI tools such as ChatGPT. Among those at the table are many veterans of the continuing battle to make social media safer and, and I think that that that's the discouraging thing is even at this stage of discussion of the problem that's already here and present in our lives. And making David Brooks tear out his hair about, you know, what does it even mean to be human? I mean, that's pretty significant. Something to respond to, and if the level of what's the responses that sit around it and chat about guardrails that you know, oh, we let Facebook, we let we let the social media get out of control now and we got to make sure this doesn't happen. With AI and it's like, whoa, what does it even mean to say we let the social media get out of control? We didn't protect him. We need to do something. Now. What does it mean? How many have lost a loved one to suicide for you? To the the the angst of living alone, being despondent. You know, this kind of stuff or or bullying, you know, bullying online or or any number of things. So so. Listen to the whales through the dolphins. You know, I I think I think that that, that it's important to acknowledge, it's fine to whine about and and recognize the problem. But then the question is what do you do about it? And just coincident with this on the same you know same page paper, same other side of the paper is. The all the cables hanging all over every city, every rural area and that of lead lead cables left by the telecom companies by the the mob bells, the, the, the lead that's being used in the production and the transmission. Of the the cod, I'm struggling for the words here. The Heat's getting to me. But but significant lad, you're seeing more and more about. Lead poisoning in the population and neurological problems in this kind of stuff, because part and process the destruction is going on now you know. And and to be talking years later about social media and how do I keep my 13 year old from. Living on a phone. You know, too little, too late.

Speaker 6: Well, there is a certain current of resistance and part of the problem is you can't get an explanation, or at least I haven't seen it anywhere, how this stuff works. They chat bots or algorithms. I'm not sure. There's no way to explain it, but it's it seems like a very elusive kind of thing. It was the thing in the Sunday New York Times. Piece called not for machines to harvest data. Revolts break out against AI, and what this is referring to is the implication of of people in general. You're feeding it. You're feeding the data. It requires the data to form the algorithmic decisions you know about your. What you like to buy and so forth and and as well. The machine learning so-called of chat bots. You know, how does it come out? With these answers. Which may or may not be fully accurate, but that's another.

Speaker 5: Question, but as you the very use of the technology makes that makes the monster you're feeding the data in. By utilizing the technology.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. Right, right. You're on line all the time. That's you're just filling in the blanks for.

Speaker 5: The machine and everything you quantify it all, break it down, and then you're out of control.

Speaker 6: Yeah, you've helped them put the electronic noose around your.

Speaker 5: Throats and that was that was another interesting I don't know where I saw it, but the whole going back to the fusion nuclear fusion nuclear fission that one of the problems that if you if you start to like really think about and understand. You know what's the big threat from AI like? And they say, well it, you know, it's going to be like how in in space odysseys, you know, the computers can take over, they can do harm to humans and that the the. The the energy needs to feed the systems of the technology. Technological systems we have created already could allow for. A A A you know kind of survival mechanism of the computer that you're able to. Implement advance a nuclear fission to to get to the energy needs that you require to operate the system and who's operating the system is the. If the system is at the level of. As a program like software loaded program to you had, there's certain requirements for energy needs and so and there's certain. Databases that show where that energy can be acquired. Where's the nuclear this that the other thing, I mean you can see how how there can be a threat to the existence, to human needs as opposed to the needs of the machine.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we've got to have. More voices, more perspectives. I I, you know, just I found this interesting in terms of. Part of the combat against all this. Review of the new black metal. Offering from Seagal, Gal Sawa, it's a new. Indigenous musician delivers intense tunes, is the name of the review. New album, supposedly like wolves in the Throne room group. I love the title wolves in the throne room. This is. Honors the land. It's a complete different orientation than all this high tech stuff, which devours the land and. Despoils it obviously so. I'd never heard of this. Musician. But. And I probably mangled the pronunciation of the name, but I think I'll look for that. Now somebody asked me, this is a total trivial deal, but somebody asked me it sort of started to forget all about it. The FBI saga where. Is my have foya. Report, you know, and just became all this goofy sort of thing. Well, I I have a small file and the last. The letter I got from the FBI was early March. We're almost in early August already, but. More flim flamming around more double talk, you know well ohh. You should be hearing from. Well no they they've made it pretty clear they have no intention of handing it over which which is kind of dumb in the 1st place it'll if I ever do get it it'll be so redacted. It'll be it'll be stupid even. Bother it, but I I had in mind that would be in the archive just for whatever it's worth. It just probably nothing.

Speaker 5: So they used to do a thing where it was they'd say you have to contact each local FBI office and Police Department and state police and every single enforcement authority and that that they could charge you for every page that they reprinted. And, you know, I mean. Is this catch 22 procedure yet? Anything.

Speaker 6: Went away. Yeah. Waste your time and money. If for nothing. You know it's. Anyway, they're still at it, and a whole bunch of resistance briefs, but I think I'll save that for next week because we're running down on time. You know something that's kind of basic. I'll just throw this in toward the end here.

Speaker 2: The whole.

Speaker 6: The whole difference in outlooks, the basic. The basic difference. It one way this is one way to look at 2 theories of Consciousness square off. This is like the latest round of this kind of stuff and the basic question. This piece raises. Is there a certain neural connection which correlates to consciousness? I mean that would answer the question. How did we become conscious and self-conscious? Basically, it seems to me anyway, a certain activity of neurons, you know, just it's not. This is just a mechanical way of. Having the same philosophy, but it reminds me of what Marvin Minsky said years ago. The brain is a three pound computer made of meat. How's that for ugly and and stupid on top of it. So they're still chasing this and this. This piece has to do with a bet.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6: Some neuroscientist had. Or maybe it was neurosciences and philosophy, I don't know. But 25 years they were going to bed a case of wine. Or something. We'll know the answer. Is there a neural correlate? Is there some?

Speaker 5: Said consciousness. That's right.

Speaker 6: You know the machine at is. You can figure it out in the brains wiring. That's a crude way to put it. That's how you get consciousness. Or the other point of view is. That's baloney. That's nothing to do with consciousness. You don't have any clue. And I think that's the better answer. These people called the new mysterians. Oh, I can't think of the Scottish doctor think he came up with that name. Very lovely idea. It's a mystery. Except that you don't be tinkering around like you're playing with. And you know, machinery or something. Anyway, the guy lost the bet 25 years on. Did not find this neural switch or whatever it is supposed to be. The unlocks the What delivers us as conscious beings.

Speaker 5: But no doubt, the scientific institutions are still looking for it. That's right. That's what all the imaging and electromagnetic and electron micros. All these studies before.

Speaker 6: Ohh yeah, they're still on. Doesn't prove we. Won't find it, you know, even though it's nonsense. So glad you came down, Kath. And it's. It's always wonderful and I think if it's OK, we we can sort this out later, but when Jessica? Calls on the 15th if. If you want to be in on that, that would be wonderful. When she's going to talk about the new book, why we need to be wild. One woman's quest for ancient human answers to 21st century problems.

Speaker 5: And she'll be Speaking of power right about her book.

Speaker 6: Yeah, right. Right. Not too early to say that put it on the calendar, August 22nd, that's Tuesday at 7:00 on the 22nd of August you'll be. Presenting the book, then. It's just brand new.

Speaker 5: Hot off the press, yeah.

Speaker 6: All right, we got some Randy Newman to go out on here. In our final minute or two, take care. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 7: Self new network. If the children of Israel. Supposed to multiply? Why must dinner of the children that. So we ask the Lord. And the Lord said. Man means nothing. He means less to me. Lawless cactus flower. Homeless Yucca tree. Chases round this desert. He thinks that's where I'll be. That's why I love mankind. I recall as the horror. The fineness of thee. From the squalor in the field in the misery. How we live?

07-11-2023

[audio]

Earth sizzles, floods. Records fall as extremes mount. Climate crisis changing the planet's rotation. Learning sinks as tech surges. Scary health news. Domestication boosts disease risks. Hunting very common among hunter-gatherer women. Asteroid City by Wes Anderson. AI redefining the social.. "A Trilliion Little Pieces," E. Kolbert on plastics as definition of modernity. Jamie, with the Hadza in e. Africa. The Contemptuous #5. Two calls.

Speaker 1: Let me.

Speaker 0: This is Richard from Rammstein and you're listening to. KW, VA I, gene.

Speaker 2: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community.

Speaker 3: At large, that's right. You're listening to kW VAUG. On this Tuesday night with John, it's 541-346-0645 and we have music from Bustin Jaber.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's local Eugene band Bustin Jeep. July 11th Anarchy Radio calls back. I'm back having blown off last week the 4th of July. I blame that on Carl. Calling today. Jamie spent some time with the Hadza hunter Gatherer. People in East Africa. An amazing opportunity. I think he's going to be coming a little later. Well, I'm sure you haven't missed the news about the heat. The several days, hottest days globally ever hottest in 125,000 years, for example. That just. Records every day. With the as of the middle of last week, 20 million acres burned in Canada. And big big heat domes in the South, the southwest and the. We're going to get it this weekend. California is going to be super hot, maybe 130 in Death Valley 130. Anyway, BBC story the other day hottest June in UK. Another record killing fish threatens insects and plants. Unprecedented. That's the general story. And also the flooding much in the news, worst flooding in 1000 years. New York State and Vermont and. Yesterday, beaches in Massachusetts, new New Hampshire and Rhode Island closed. Due to high levels of bacterial toxicity. Due to the flooding due to the runoff. And there's going to be more books one. New one. It's not keeping up, I'm sure, because it's already. It's already out. It's been written and published Hot house Earth by Bill McGuire. Apparently, an urgent, sobering look. At all this and. One other disturbing thing. That it turns out that climate crisis is changing the earth spin. The rotation of the planet is altered. By polarized melting and also the emptying of underground water sources. Such that. Yeah, it's, it's. Spinning around, wobbling in a different way. Not too bright. Well, I've got this is going to have some local. Maybe more of a local thrust than usual for anarchy radio. But and some of that has to do with. Some action. I want to throw this out. If I'm just asking Carl whether he's seen asteroid city, the new Wes Anderson. Very freaky, just very visually crazy and. You know, about halfway through this is my take. Anyway, it struck me that if Samuel Beckett wrote a sort of comedy. This would be it comedy in a strange way. It's only about a play and you sort of forget that it's it's it's about a play taking place. Any waves? It's unusual and maybe stimulating, not real. Sure, I was reminded why Adorno. Was very big on Beckett and very big on his plays. For, maybe for the reason along the lines of this movie, at least in part. Nothing gets resolved and Adorno was pleased by that. In fact, he was going to dedicate his last book. To Beckett. But he died before he finished the the book on Aesthetics. And that was the key thing. To him in terms of. Beckett, you don't get the false resolution. And that's because it's not on offer. It's not. It's false if you. If you do fall back on any basic resolution, you're lying about what's going on. So anyway, I guess that's the appeal of Beckett, if you. If you see it that way, I guess. And another movie, probably a a real dud of sort of. Action movie Tom Cruise kind of a cheesy thing it sounds like. But they're saying that as a self aware AI panic vehicle. Yeah, that's the scary part. It delivers on that level anyway, even though it's. Kind of dumb I guess. The Verge is talking about that. Yeah, lots of new scenes, new movies, new. New projects, there's there is some energy. Coming out, I'm not talking about Hollywood movies here, but. Things are going on, I'd say. Oh man, one thing that doesn't go away only gets worse. Homelessness, for example, LA Times. Last week, talking about LA County and the City of Los Angeles. Up dramatically, it's endless stories about homeless in LA, but. About a 10% annual rise. That means every year. Wow, that's. Pretty crazy. This is just today's news. Front page story in the New York Times, pandemic era learning gaps are not closing. Widening gaps in terms of reading and math. Despite a huge amount of government spending. Let's pull out of the pandemic. Let's get over that and get back to learning. Well, among other things, the pandemic was a big surge in dependence on technology. You've got to zoom. You can't go to school. For a while there, and that was. It wasn't just, well, anyway, that's two things that come together kind of, obviously. The tech thing gets more and more. A deep dive and. So do skills taking a dive, it's. The important thing. Well, I'm just going to just for the moment, just run through some pathologies that. Are also very disturbing. This is on the 4th of July, a story about. First, local malaria cases since 2003. Yeah, that was a week ago. Florida and Texas, and they were pinning that on the climate crisis. Well, it's been spreading, yeah. And syphilis in this country has been on the rise since 2000. Now it's called an epidemic 100 and six 176,713 cases in 2021. Up 75% since 2017. And another. Unhealthy, bizarre thing. Kidney stones or on the rise among children? Kids getting kidney stones, especially girls for some reason. And it's it's all about Ultra processed food sedentism. Including these energy drinks. Yeah, big story about that on Sunday. Yeah, we're seeing stuff that we haven't seen before. There's an odd one from the 4th of July. Mysterious brain disease causing hallucinations is spreading in Canada, paralyzing young children. Maybe it's like a Wes Anderson movie. You just get these crazy things that really couldn't be true. Except they are, except they're factual. All part of the general. Collapse of things that where one can counted on some stability. That's that's going away. Here's one from almost two weeks ago, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. Story called the environmental hazards of farming fish in a warming world. There's been quite a bit on this topic. How toxic that is and what a danger it is. To wild fish in the vicinity. Talking in particular about this going on in southern Chile and Patagonia and Chile. Aquaculture. It's called very, very polluting. Combining with algae blooms, toxic algae blooms. They they can kill the the pinned fish, the farmed fish. And the whole thing is a kind of toxic ensemble. Story today. This is just a general thing about domestication, because there's so many forms of. Animal domestication. Story called Risk scene in Animal Industries. You can just instantly think of all the different ways of. You know chickens and pigs and everything else. And what they're pointing at is zoonotic diseases. With domestication, in other words, those that. Spread from non human animals to human animals. That's been kind of lurking for a while. Maybe more than lurking. There's an interesting piece, little anthropology. Thing here from the journal PLOS One. Kind of the oddest. Name of a journal? Possibly. Anyway. June 28th piece by several authors. Called the myth of man, the Hunter women's contribution to the hunt across ethnographic contexts. This covers about 100 years. In 63 different hunter gatherer societies. I mean this this whole the title itself. That pointed to something that blew up actually in the 60s. The man, the Hunter Conference. In 1966, I think it was in Chicago and academic conference. Which really did start to just blow away the. Those minory. Divisions those gender divisions anyway, this one. Kind of deepens that it's a thorough look at this. Yeah. And anyway the here's the bottom line in 63 different hunter gatherer societies, 80% of which. Women did at least some hunting. 80% of them. So man, the Hunter woman, the gatherer. Not confined to those roles. All that much. And then you you got to get into, I guess you want to know how much is at least some hunting? It's arranged from from a lot of hunting to not very much hunting, but anyway 80%. Of those. I think we then we have the call from Jamie, the Hansa. That's it's one of the major. Extant hunter gatherer. Groups left. On the planet and uh. About 20% of Hadza are are still 100 gatherers. And they're kind of. Besieged or beleaguered? Or. In some ways compromised by the surrounding pastoral and farming. Hadza and other, of course, other groups like the Masai, we're just straight up domesticates and very hostile to Hansa. Well, here's another eco news thing. Saint Paul Island is an indigenous village of Saint Paul. Well, that is the village is called Saint Paul, 800 miles West of Anchorage in the Bering Sea. In the past few years, 10 billion snow crabs have vanished from the Bering Sea. These crabs are, or were the mainstay of Saint Paul. Now its residents may have to. Go elsewhere. Yeah, that's that's a very clear. An obvious result. All part of it and another bit on Antarctic sea ice. How fast? Its melting? February marked a record low level. For sea ice that came out July 6th. I just can't wait to get into some more of this AI stuff. All this chat bot stuff and so forth. Now, there's not only AI, but a GI, which the another step. And of course there are chat bots in schools and businesses already a lot, but now in hospitals and homes. It can tell you which gift to buy. A family member for. You couldn't figure that out before chat bots. Is the piece. Sunday the 2nd in the New York Times by Evgeny Morozov. The risk from AI isn't just existential. You know the the sort of takeover from all this. Not only does it shrink intelligence reference those test scores, but society is being redefined. It doesn't take a big leap to to see that already. You know these things do. They're sort of conjoined, for example. Talking about social gatherings or what is social. What is left of it? Can't avoid talking about these past weekends, especially the mass shootings. There were 15 mass shootings. I once said 17 mass shootings over the 4th of July weekend. The long holiday weekend. And just this past weekend, this is especially Saturday night. Amarillo, TX, Chicago, Cleveland, et cetera. These things are just. I mean, I got a long list, but I I wouldn't have. I would have to go back to the weekend before, namely the 4th of July weekend. That's. Terrible numbers and terrible locations. There were just. I'll just throw out one from a Saturday night. Just before the 4th, 30 were shot at a Baltimore Block party. There's your social gathering and all these. They're mostly block parties. Other celebrations also bar scenes. You know, that sort of thing, but. Yeah, that's the. I mean, that really underlines that and. That connection is pretty vivid and pretty, uh. There's a piece in the Atlantic recently, just about four days ago, I think. Even Bogost wrote what did people do before smartphones? No one can remember. That's the subtitle. Yeah, the smartphone age. Constant online life. In quotes everywhere. Yeah, it's the and the point about I forget who said this, but. Technology kind of embraces history and and historical sense kind of goes away because really. It becomes a story of technology and technology present especially. And and what used to pass for history. Very much diminished, very much diminished. That's. That's something you want to think about. If if that's true, insofar as that's true, it's a. It's a fairly profound thing. Among all the basic things that are being lost. That's that hasn't. Happened overnight. I mean, I don't think that's just, you know, smartphones but. I don't know at least a couple of decades, I would say. And let's see yesterday and the verge. There was a piece called. This environment and you know the verge, they're just pushing every kind of E gadget, every kind of electronic thing you can think of. This environmentally conscious smartphone is finally coming to the US. The European model. The Marina Marino, Fairphone 4. Marino, Fairphone 4, never heard of that. And I don't know much about it. Definitely don't. But here's the first line. Refers to the fact that this Fairphone. Is quote built using ethically sourced materials? How do you get a smartphone that is any in any way, ethically sourced? What the hell does that mean? And they don't go on to say when, when in fact, is are you getting at? Why do you define that? Is is it somehow? A little less horrible, a little, somehow more green or some things. What is your definition of any of that stuff, you know, ethically sourced material? I guess that means you don't have to have any mining for example. For the for the components, for the metal or or any toxic industry for the plastic involved. Or yeah, it's it's ethically sourced so I don't know, I don't. I have no idea what's made of in in that case, if that's. Has any meaning whatsoever? Because it doesn't have any meaning whatsoever. It's just a throw away. You know, ad pitch. I'm sure what? It probably comes down to, I suppose is. Relatively speaking. And again, you gotta get into the weeds. What the hell are you talking about? All right. It's when we're while we await Jamie, it's. 541-346-0645. Go ahead and call about any other thing. Anything you've been wondering about in the past two weeks since since anarchy Orania. Or even before him. There's a full page New York Times ad, January or no. Excuse me, June 30th. LG Guggenheim celebrates intersection of art and AI. I'm forgetting what LG Guggenheim. Is but anyway. Stephanie dinkins. One this sort of a competition is celebratory thing about this intersection of art and AI. About the timely negotiation of AI technology. Tech as key element of the work of these people at the Guggenheim. These techno artists. Somebody's coming on, I think here.

Speaker 3: We have a call.

Speaker 2: Hello there.

Speaker 4: Hey, John, it's Don of graffiti.

Speaker 2: OK, Don, how are you doing?

Speaker 4: I'm doing alright. Can I take a couple of minutes while you? Wait for Jamie.

Speaker 2: Sure thing.

Speaker 4: I'm totally different topic, but Oregon Country fair, you know, happened and. I've never actually never been, but I understand it kind of similar to Burning Man in a. OK. And I've been thinking about that a bit. How it's it's sort of a temporary intentional community, which sort of makes everybody one big tribe and. They handle their own like law enforcement, right? I think both of them do more or less.

Speaker 3: They didn't used.

Speaker 2: To have law enforcement at all, but lots of things have. Changed over the years, I guess.

Speaker 4: I mean that. But it's it's. Handled by them, right? It's not. It's not like cops are in there. Like I don't know about Oregon country, Sir, but a Burning Man that. The government cops really keep a low profile of it. I mean, I haven't been in, in years. I went twice 10 years ago or something, but I really like.

Speaker 3: They say I think all the people that get DUI's coming out of the fair might take issue with that, but yeah, there's there's no like, you know, cops like wandering around inside that have cop uniforms on.

Speaker 4: Yeah, right. Right. And I think they have their own sort of enforcement people that.

Speaker 3: They have their security. Yeah, I I mean I I don't. Know I I don't know if I would call it enforcement, but they have. They have.

Speaker 4: Bouncers sense of accountability to the group rather than. The you know the the greater society at large sort of thing. And the other thing is I really had burning and I really liked it. It was a. Gift economy not. Even barter. Everybody just gives what they've got away and. You're just wondering how. How we could move toward that in society? As a whole.

Speaker 2: I don't know. That's a big one. That's. A big one, yeah, in.

Speaker 3: I don't think the fair would be a place to look for that. It is a, you know, a craft fair by it, like its definition. So I mean, the monetary component of it is, is absolutely huge. It's all about money. Money, money, money.

Speaker 4: Right. Right. Well, that Burning Man, you know, the only thing when I went, the only thing you could buy was the I think ice and coffee and everybody else just gave everything away, which was really nice.

Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4: And then of course, the fact that you can, you can be whoever you want to be. And I suppose that's true at the country fair too. And there aren't any real society restrictions on what what you can wear. Or how you can act?

Speaker 2: I've never been to Burning Man. Have you, Carl?

Speaker 4: Well, I went to. I went to. Gosh, it's been a long time now. I went twice and it really is. Was very special. You'd really feel different when you come out and you you wonder why? Why society can't be like that more. Of course, now I think I think.

Speaker 2: Festivals. There are islands and things like that, but that's about all that's permitted. I mean, that's about all that can survive under the. You know the way things are set up now. Of course.

Speaker 3: So #5 is is #5 is getting.

Speaker 4: You know.

Speaker 2: Out there.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's getting out. I've had some issues myself that have taken me out of town, but I'm trying to be back and getting it. Out as much as possible so.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to help with that too.

Speaker 4: Ohh, excellent. OK. Well, I just wanted to throw. That in the.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks for calling, Don.

Speaker 4: OK, have a. Good one, right?

Speaker 2: You too. You too. All right. And maybe we should just take a little music break, right? At the moment.

Speaker 6: That goes on in that place in the dark. That I used to know. A girl. I do this one that her name. You still never care for me. Minor eye these days, I'm afraid. From your dream, where the world?

Speaker 5: The dark.

Speaker 6: Well, it was all the 65 years ago when the world was restrained.

Speaker 5: On the end, kissing. She closed her eyes upon the world.

Speaker 1: And picked upon the bones of last week.

Speaker 5: This talk is loud. Veronica sits in the face. It's very quiet and still and they call her a name that they never.

Speaker 1: That's right. And if they don't know nobody else with them, you still have a carefree night with the devil.

Speaker 2: Classic Elvis Costello there. Interesting piece, especially the interesting bottom line of this article in The New Yorker, July 3rd New Yorker, a trillion little pieces. How plastics are poisoning us by Elizabeth Colbert. It's pretty good, it's and especially the punchline. What's that?

Speaker 1: Did did you see?

Speaker 3: That art piece that they had news about a week or two ago, that was the world's tiniest 3D printed object. And it was a. Tiny little like. Purse, like a Louis Vuitton purse or like, I don't think it was Louis Vuitton, but it was like a designer purse that was just like. So many little microns wide, it's basically it's a microplastic. And they're like, hey, this is our the art of our time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it is, yeah. Yeah, that's her point. How can you have modernity without plastic when you think about it? When? You know it's everywhere. And what I liked especially. Was the punchline. Often I'm sort of feeling like Elizabeth Colbert has written some very strong stuff, but it it kind of lacks the. The deeper question you know the so where does that leave us? What is? But you know it's. As she's gotten more mainstream, it's but not this time. This is very good. And and I'm quoting this from the very last paragraph. If much of contemporary life is wrapped up in plastic and the result of this is that we are poisoning our kids ourselves and our ecosystems, then contemporary life may need to be rethought. Now that is a damn primitive. It's kind of talking there, and that's the. That's pretty strong. Yeah. Well, or you just keep on with this and everything is a wash and plastic including. Your body and the oceans and everything else. Well, I think we've got another go, very strong wind up there. From Elizabeth Colbert.

Speaker 3: Just one second.

Speaker 2: Uh, we do have another call. Who could it be?

Speaker 3: We have Jamie. Ah, hey.

Speaker 2: Hi, John. Hi Jamie. Thanks for calling.

Speaker 7: Yeah, sorry that it took me a while.

Speaker 2: Ohh, that's fine, that's fine. Well, I'm so interested in your time with the Hansa recently. Some some while spent with them. How did that come about? Or would you rather not get into that?

Speaker 7: Don't want to get into too. Much details there but a. Friend of mine. Has a project that he's doing with the hodza and. I have the opportunity to join it this year, so I did. I'm really happy that I did do that.

Speaker 2: I can't imagine how momentous that might have been and. You were living. Camping with them the whole time. Is that right?

Speaker 7: Yes, Yep. Sleeping right alongside them. In the. Beautiful African valve.

Speaker 3: How did that?

Speaker 2: Go. How was that? Like on a daily basis?

Speaker 7: It's just absolutely brilliant, really. I mean, there's so. Much to say about it. You could take up more than an. Hour of your show discussing it. But you know.

Speaker 4: I guess what's the the best way?

Speaker 7: To put it here, for Anarchy radio is that. What people are asking me, what did you learn? And I did learn some certain things that we. Can talk about. But in a way I didn't really learn that. Much, I just. Saw what I already knew from years and years of researching this situation, reading about it, trying to understand. And immediate return hunter gatherers and I just basically saw verification of all of the stuff that that has been discussed. You know, in, in the light of anti say of anarcho primitivist ways of thinking it. And that's one thing that really stands out. You know like when you think of all the naysayers. Even like how you know? Kevin Tucker was attacked for so many years for for being accused of being so ideological about immediate return hunter gatherers, a lack of surplus, things like that. Well. I'd like to see those naysayers go camp for a week with the hodza and then tell me that we are wrong. You know that that that's that's one of the main things is just you're actually witnessing truly free people actually free human beings. And you're seeing how they accomplish that and you're seeing how happy and healthy. They are because of it. And it's right there before your eyes and then. This is contrasted with what's happening to people like the hasa that are being slowly but surely decimated by. Agricultural pastoralis cultures that are invading their lands. And you, you see those people quite a bit too, when you're out on the land there. And so you you see this direct contrast between not just the adaptation to the land that's different. One of them? That's pretty much decimating the country and the other that's lives like in close cohesiveness with it. Then you also you also see the different attitudes, right, like among the pastoralists, you can see the sort of how the women kind of hide away. Like blatant patriarchy. You know, just the the property rights assumptions that they. And then you contrast to that to to the hodza, and you see the distinct difference between these two different ways, and you don't even see a bunch of technology, right? Neither one of these cultural groups, the pastoralists that are invading, halts the country and the hearts that have any high level of technology at all. There's no phones there. There's some modern clothes. You know, there's there's certain things, right. The the Hogs have had metal for 2000 years or more, but you don't they they don't have technology. So what you're seeing is it's kind of in its bare naked form the difference between the domesticated. Pastoralists, type psychology and way of life versus an immediate return. Nomadic hunter Gatherer, way of life, like right before your eyes and that is really something to see. And it really verifies. So much of the the thesis you know about. Immediate return hunter gatherers and that they are actual anarchists. And that's what you're seeing right there.

Speaker 2: Two basic ways of being that. It's so far apart.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's. They do have a relationship with they have the hard. They're not. They're very peaceful. You know, they they they're reaction to conflict. And and conquest is to run and hide. You know, it's not to fight back. So they've slowly but surely developed sort of a relationship with the herders. That's positive in a way. And so it's not like you're in this conflict but the. The herders just kind of run the show, really. And the hogs are just trying to basically adapt around them. You know, they, they, they're basically they're, you know, I was with a group. Of 19 people. Who are persistently hunting. And foraging every day, getting large amounts of food from hunting and gathering and. I mean, that's a whole big topic we can discuss, but they're doing this in like a war zone, for lack of a better way to put it like that. They're they're still able to get wild food to a significant degree, but to travel through that country, you're going. Herds of cows at times and areas that used to have water that are decimated by by cattle herders getting the water from there and. Yeah, everywhere you go is the traces of goats and cows. There's a bunch of corn fields all over, and the corn fields are kind of acting like how corn fields act in the in the Midwest. You know, they're bringing in. But he in this case, some Impala antelope. So then the the Hogs are able to get those bigger animals like Impala and kudu cause of the corn fields really because that's where it's kind of like some. Country that the that the wild animals are attracted to, you know? But but the the rest of the stuff is really just. It's already a deserted environment, but it's it's really hammered, you know, by by all the cows and goats. It's just everywhere. So you kind of see this kind of war zone that the hogs are trying to navigate to. Survive in and. I mean, it's really sketchy because there's about. My understanding is there's about 200 left that are still actual self-reliant hunter gatherers. And then there's another 800 or so that are more settled down at this point and. These ones that are still continuing to. To get by. As hunter gatherers are, you know, really threatened. It you can see that from standing there. That said, you're also seeing, you know, 810 year old boys who can hunt for themselves and go out and get their own small game and birds and come back and just throw it on the fire. And eat it and. Teenagers 27 year old people who? Are pretty much haunt entirely for themselves. They're masters of making bows, arrows, whatever. You know, whatever needs to happen to get by. They can do it, and they're really energetic. They hunt really hard and they don't let up. And they identify themselves as hunters. We are free hunters, you know. That's like the identity you sense. 3 hunters we we will survive as hunters, you know they have that ethos with like that driving identity even in the youth and there's no phones. That's getting scarier, though, because you know where that goes once that happens. Women are falling all. Day-to-day traditional way of life. Gathering tubers, berries, wild cucumbers, bell Bab, fruit, women will get. If they see small game, they'll whack it with their digging stick and bring that home feed the babies. You're just you're seeing. You're also seeing in this context like you're seeing from everything we understand you're seeing. The closest thing we probably have to the original. Sapiens adaptation. If you want to agree that ancestral populations did evolve in East and southern Africa, so a lot of this technology. Yes. So a lot of this technology that you that you're seeing you know is is even predates our species potentially. You know, some of especially some of the things the women are doing and just to be able to see that is just brilliant and it's just. It's free and happy and healthy and and. You there? When I say you're witnessing optimal human fitness and physical but but social, you know, and ecological human fitness, that's what you're witnessing.

Speaker 2: Bottom line, we're not intense experience. I bet you're just still buzzing with the all of that.

Speaker 7: I really am, you know. It's actually a. I'm still. I'm still not all there since I've gotten back to the US for several reasons, but yeah, I'm just. I mean, it's really scary. Just just. Just I I I I didn't leave optimistic for for the future. I didn't. I mean that's an important thing to say. In fact, I left quite angry. At not the Hadza, but at just seeing the dominant politic of Africa and what it really is, you know, which is a, which is a a pastoral pastoralist herder politic and then you can see how things have evolved there and. I mean, these are like. Capitalistic delayed returns to the thinking people and they always have been since they they invaded southern Africa. And they're they're interested in owning property and having wealth, and they have elite, you know, hierarchy with elite, elite stratification. And those people on the show, they're the Lords of Africa, right? Like they they. They're the ones who make all the money off of the national parks. Now that that are cost thousands of dollars for tourists to go to where actually all the big game that exists. In a healthy way is where you could actually like. I was thinking that on some of one of those parks that you could probably have 1000 nomadic immediate return hunter gatherers surviving in one of those parks, but there's no way that's going to happen, right? And they're kicked out of there. So then who? You know who's facilitating the the the ivory trade, who's facilitating the the rhino horns getting extracted? You know, I mean, I I know about this is. There's all kinds of internal corruption and what you learn is is that these people like care about wildlife like because it's it's the financial incentives, that's why they care about the protection. Of the wildlife. They're not like a lot of them are not just like gung ho. Like care about all these? You know, they're not like ecologically carrying people in a way. It's like, how can we get money out of this? And that's the dominant politic. And that's why hunter gatherers in Africa are so decimated, you know? That that's the the scary thing. And they just have so much power. Like the people that are in the heart of the country, they're they're from the groups called the toga Isamu Iraqi. Not really Massai, but those people. Why did they end up in, in in the in the Lake Yahtzee region, where the hogs are? Well, they got pushed there too because of other more powerful herding groups. Such as like the Masai, who are very warlike, and then these other herders that are in like Yasi are like more peaceful. So then they got pushed. They have nowhere to go. They just have to keep roaming along and they end up, you know, in the last area where the hots ahead are at, like their refuge, which is the Lake Yahtzee region, which is where they ended up because it's, it's it's dry and desserty there it's not, it's not the. The amazing healthy grasslands of the of the Serengeti, with a lot of water holes. And stuff. The the hosts that got pushed into there because of the herders invaded and pushed them into Lake Yossi is like a refuge and and then the herders. That had invaded like Serengeti and stuff. Well, they got kicked out of there by the Germans and the English to create the national parks, stuff like that. And so the hogs are just at the very end of the line, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, yeah.

Speaker 5: Let's see.

Speaker 7: So go ahead, sorry.

Speaker 2: Oh well, just yeah, that's. The universal. Story of that dominant ethos. Of domestication, whatever form it takes.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Where is it, I mean?

Speaker 2: Against freedom.

Speaker 7: Most people don't realize that that sub-Saharan Africa was pretty much entirely occupied by by a hunter gatherers, probably ancestral sawn, and hordes of people for. Up until only, like 2500 years ago, like the the herding groups the bounty speaking people.

Speaker 4: They all just.

Speaker 7: Invaded sub-Saharan Africa and very recently, and why is that because. They were influenced by the Middle East, agriculture and fertile, the Fertile Crescent stuff and not cross over, you know, into Egypt, then down into Africa. And then they took that on their populations, grew and expanded. And there's all this, you know, war and violence and stuff associated with that slave. The slave trade originates, you know. Way, way back before Europeans even showed up on Africa. And then, so of course, these pastoralists are running to try to get away and find their own space. But then that's when they enter all of this country that was exclusively immediate return, hunter gatherer country for probably more than a few 100,000 years. And it's very recent, yeah.

Speaker 2: Amazing story. Amazing experience, I'm sure.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean they they hunt it a lot. And so I got to see a lot of a lot of game harvest and you know with with different with the with the Bone Arrow technology, these different like poison arrows, different types of arrows that they use, different strategies different. Animals and we ate, we ate a ton of different. Game that they got and then you get to see how they eat too. On this whole whole dietary thing, because the heads have been a big component of the dietary discussion, you know. So getting to see that is absolutely brilliant and it verifies a lot about that nutrition, that the nutrition that they. Have is probably. It goes back hundreds of thousands of years too, like you're kind of witnessing at least an African type like payload of the diet right before your eyes. With the animals they eat, they eat like everything they eat, all the organs they they clean the intestines, they eat that stuff. They have these big cookouts like it's totally immediate return, you know, like they'll get a bunch of baboons or or a Bush pig or or or a warthog or. And then they'll just have a big feast, you know, and they'll cut up what's left hanging on the tree. Put it next to the camp and you know, they'll they'll lay around and consume what they have. And then as soon, you know, as that starts running out, they're they're right back on it. Like back out again. And just like they they they get it. They eat it. They eat. It and they. They they share. It and then they run out again and keep hunting. You know, you just totally immediate return like you.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 7: You witness how that goes. In my.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a perfect example of that.

Speaker 7: Yep. And the. I mean, what else like? Some brilliant stuff that I saw like this, like a kid, a young kid,

06-27-2023

[audio] Whatever happened to 'post-left'? Anarchist dregs vs. fresh advances. Heat, flooding extremes: even more erratic. Unprecedented hopelessness in Britain. Record global cocaine use and production. "Betrayal of Innocence" by JZ. Plastic in Utero launch. "Chronic Noise Proves Deadly." Loads of anarchist book fairs. Action news. Industrial scale solar in desert: destructive, like social media. One call. No broadcast next week.

Speaker 1: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWB, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 2: That's right. You're listening to K. WVA Eugene. I am here in the studio with John tonight. It's 541-346-0645 as we kick off the evening with some Johnny Cash.

Speaker 3: I went. Walking through streets paved with gold. Lifted some stones, saw the skin and bones of a city without a soul. I went out walking. Under an atomic sky where the ground won't turn and the rain, it burns like the tears. When I said goodbye. Yeah, when was nothing. Nothing but the thought of you. I went wondering. Wind drifting through the capitals of Tim. Where men can't walk or freely talk and sons turn their fathers in. I stopped outside the church house where the citizens like to sit. They say they. Want the Kingdom? But they don't want. God in it. Down that old Lady Lane. I passed by 1000 signs looking for my own name. But the thought you looking. I went out there. In search of experience. To taste and to touch.

Speaker 1: Hello there. It's anarchy Radio, June 27th.

Speaker 5: There won't be no.

Speaker 1: Anarchy Radio next week, 4th of July. I'll be I'm sure experiencing paroxysms of patriotic fever. Not the time to be an anarchist. Actually, it's because Carl won't be here. The number one reason.

Speaker 2: It's not in honor of.

Speaker 1: It's not.

Speaker 2: Didn't stay.

Speaker 1: Probably not. But back on the 11th and might have Jamie calling in, he said. I think he's just now getting back from East Africa and hanging with the Hadza. And that's going to be interesting. Yeah, he's he's an anthropologist and. Got to do some field work, and yeah, that's an interesting story. Going to be keen on that. Well, I had two wonderful gifts yesterday. One was from a letter from Sean Swain and I don't usually. Take the time to. Get into the. Anarchist prisoners thing. It's sad that you know only a. An hour a week if I guess that's my main excuse, but anyway. Just wanted to say. Just feel like a shout out him. His, as you may know, he's been locked down since 1991. He was convicted after killing an intruder in self-defense who was an abuser. Of had been an abuser of of his girlfriend. Anyway, it's just delightful to see somebody who so embodies the spirit of resistance has for so long and. I hope to be able to do a podcast with him before too long. And by the way, you can go to seanswain.org. And yeah. One inspiring cat and among many you know, there's some people. Some of the very finest who? Get our love and respect and support out there and. She had more time to talk about. About them. And the other gifts that are showed up yesterday was plastic and utero, a journal of anti SIM Anarchy Reborn from the compost of Wasteland modernity. Put together by Artemis, very cool. 32 pages. Hard to. Hard to see how you could do more with just 32 pages and I I like the old style or old school. Kind of format. Understand Steve. Helped with that. And Jason, I think and and otherwise just quite a number of. Mostly recent people. I mean new to the scene in general and. Very cool stuff. It's uh. Very strong pieces and I think. Well, last week he was, he called and said or was it the week before? How to get it? And you can write to PO Box 72. Seymour, Illinois 61875. To get a hold of Artemis for plastic and utero. And civilized distro. Because he always also does a fabulous podcast. You know, this brings to mind interesting deal here. I mean, I I don't think there's a whole lot going on in some ways in the anarchist milieu right now. Seems kind of quiet at least the circles I'm in. But on the other hand, also seems like there's been kind of a. Either a shift or a clarification that's going on. That seems to me anyway. And I think there's kind of a. Perhaps the turning point? And I'm thinking about the mainline anarchist media stuff. And what's been lacking, and what hasn't been addressed, we put it that way. For example, crime think. I've heard from people that described the current crime thing stuff as kind of a nosedive into liberalism. Chist reform stuff and progressive stuff and. Although I have to say I don't think it was a very sudden thing in some ways because I remember. The to change everything campaign in 2015, I think they put together 60 different gigs, mostly in North America, but in other places as well. And it wasn't to change everything. It was. It was various accounts from people. People who have been involved in different struggles. Important struggles. But you know, I got to say there wasn't anything basic about it and. They got mad at me. I I was the one who set up the Eugene gig. And and greeted them and so forth. But I I made a decision to. To not attend because they would have had to. Challenge that to change everything. Now other things need changing, various issues, various things and but. You shouldn't call it to change everything if you're not dealing with fundamental stuff. And then there is. It's going down, which is the main Antifa channel, you might say in search of new forms of life. Well, well, that is such a misnomer. It in search of staying with the old, tired liberalism is more, more and more. The way they should describe it it it has some news value. Given that, and certainly the other one I'm thinking of is of course a news.org anarchistnews.org. And there's no more little black card, but. You know, it's a news service, yes, but the politics. If you look at the column of for comments on the right side of the page, the. But it's just so embarrassing. There's nothing even post left about it, and that's a term that's been thrown around for a long time, right? Well, we're all post left. We're all sort of anti SIV. We're all kind of hating on the technology, you know. Well, you know, whatever is cool, whatever is, you know, but. It has not cut it. There's just no edge there. Theyveanynews.org has the. Topic of the week. Which is mainly just these personal style things. I mean nothing. You know, almost kind of this self help thing just. You know, it could be somewhat interesting, but that's that's what it is. That's the thing to talk about this week. Pretty weak. But I am I am encouraged because there are new scenes. New voices, new energy. I really feel that I'm I've been getting. Some emails too. They're just damn encouraging and. So I could be wrong, but I think there's. Something coming on. Well, let's see. I think you know what I'm going to. Do right here. This is my latest piece. It's called betraying innocence. I haven't been writing a lot lately, but and this isn't super long. None of these things are. Oh, and by the way, I may be jumping the gun here, but I. I think. There might be a little booklet. Comprised of seven or eight of columns or column length pieces by me. This one might be slightly longer, but. Kind of an ABC's of anarcho primitivism, according to Jay-Z. I've been talking to Ben about that at detritus. I mean, I've done it before jumping the gun and then it it doesn't work out, but I'm kind of hopeful about that. Could be kind of fun. Various people have said there should be some little primer, you know, some little. Like I said, kind of an ABC's thing or one person's ABC's. It's not any definitive dogma or anything. They were his. Betrayal of innocence after 20 years in California College and beyond, I returned to Oregon in the 1980s. My writing efforts were influenced by the Situationists, and especially by the Frankfurt School. I don't know where Kim or Marcusa, for example. Speaking of Macusa, I came across a wonderfully intriguing question that he asked can the past be somehow redeemed put right? I was struck by the audacity of such a question. It's meta utopian quality. That crew more or less haunted me, as did alone from Christian liturgy. That I felt somewhat drawn to despite having long left the status of believer. Angus de qui tollis peccata mundi. Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the. Two sorts of redemption, to be sure. Maybe I was predisposed toward what became my major focus in the 80s. The origins of alienation in terms of primary symbolic dimensions. The origins worked provoked Bob Black to label me, perhaps not altogether unjustly, as a religious thinker looking for the original sin. Those were the heyday. Those years were the heyday of post modernism, whose dominant ideas issued origins, are such like pursuits. Reality was seen as messy, impure, even indeterminate, and any thought of non alienated beginnings was off limits in a period of political retreat from the 1960s and 70s. My cousin's questioned about redeeming the past was buried by an unrelenting, cynical present who could be thought of as saved or without guilt. A quantity like innocence reserved was reserved only for the victims of authorities, enemies. The unabomber's targets were innocent victims, of course. When asked by media if I defended his actions, my response and question were never answered. I do not endorse sending bombs in the mail, but were his targets innocent? Those agents of the brave new world, the anti life technologists. After 911, there came to light, not that he'd hidden it. An essay by Ward Churchill of the University of Colorado, calling into question the innocence of those killed in the Twin Towers. Corporate headquarters. And World Center Center of Global Capital. Which which condemns many to servitude or death, innocence. But the deafening chorus proclaimed it as senseless terrorist murder of the blameless. Churchill was fired, although he was acquitted in court of a trumped up charge of plagiarism. The phony grounds for firing a tenured professor. His appeal for return to his job was denied. From the Latin notary to harm Innocens incapable of doing harm. It is possible to define in a sense, in differing, even opposing, ways. Taken literally, it rules out choice decision. In the step not beyond and the writing of the disaster, French philosopher Maurice Blank show takes this position. If innocence is definitively outside of evil, it can be neither space nor capacity for responsibility. Blanchot saw a fall out of innocence as essential for the human condition, for the subject to emerge. Without this fall, there is no human, no symbolic dimension, IE no language, no sense of time. Blanco held that quote. The very temporality of humans is at stake. No entry into history, alas. Other thinkers, such as Heidegger and Agumba concur. Leaving innocence means, via the symbolic what it is to be human. Blanco saw attention, a latent desire to break out of innocence. Kierkegaard similarly founded anxiety in favor of a fall from innocence. Of course, a less over civilized perspective sees the opposite. There is pretty universally A yearning for the non symbolic the non historical. That is what we chafe against, not a non innocence. Walter Benjamin at the peak of his thought discerned our messianic need to burst the fetters of time in history. History and prehistory exhibited attention akin to Benjamins, utopian impulse, and to assert an absence, objectivity and capacities to blanchon's supposed state of innocence is nothing short of preposterous. For the longest time, before outside of symbolic culture, people thrived in non domesticated hunter gatherer band societies. Kierkegaard. Kierkegaard was quite wrong to identify ignorance as the quote profound secret of innocence. Ignorance of the facts of human prehistory is close to the definition of philosophy abstract, domesticated reason. At the sunset of symbolic culture and civilization, its fruits constitute an alarming dead zone. It is more and more obvious what trading away innocence involves. 541-346-0645. Maybe you have a thought about where we're at. In terms of the anti authoritarian. Well, things are just going to rise so fast in terms of the environment. It's kind of amazing. Today and at Futurity. It's reported that global reservoirs were getting emptier, especially in South Asia, Africa and South America. Meanwhile, severe rain storms this is today's New York Times front page story, severe rain storms, worsening drainage problems at risk across the US. From the Association of flood pains floodplains managers. And meanwhile, also in today's news from the World Resources Institute. Tropical forests are disappearing at a very fast pace. Deforestation at the rate of 10% every year. There was a climate summit in Glasgow 2021 where 145 countries pledged. To end this loss. More phony stuff, like all the other. Summits of that kind. Well, the tremendous heat, it's starting to hit pretty darn early, the Miami Herald. Had a story. Yesterday, while also reporting that the the Heat index is up close to 120 in places in Florida anyway, the Hardy County, Florida sheriff on the Sunday. Asks would be criminals to wait on their crimes for cooler temperatures. Kind of hilarious. It'll be safer for. All of us. If you wait till it isn't so scourging. And it's an early arriving hurricane season and record sea surface temperatures off the coast of Africa. Are likely to give it a boost. On the weekend news. About the Earth's oceans in May. Warmest on record. Yeah, the temperature of the oceans began charting that as of 1850. Coral reefs are dying, the levels are rising. Going to be blackouts? In this country. Due to heat, not just here I think. And again, back to the water these severe. Differing or opposing aspects of the same disaster, Bangladesh. Big story yesterday called in Bangladesh. Seeing the woes water produces. Bangladesh is the low lying delta nation. And with the melting Himalayan glaciers. And erosion and the rising sea. It will be underwater. It was when, but. Not that far off. Well, let's see. We've got some. Well, of course we got the mass shootings, especially on the weekend. Here in this country and Speaking of glaciers, by the way, three of Mount Rainiers. Glaciers have melted away. On that iconic mountain in Washington state. Severe heat in China at the moment. Yeah. Another thing about Texas. At Corpus Christi. And they're in. They're in the third week of heat wave heat Dome kind of thing in Texas. Heat index Corpus Christi was 125 degrees on Sunday. Very extreme for June? Yeah. Third, third week of that kind of heat there. Tremendous spate of tornadoes in the Midwest and the South and. 1400 flights were cancelled on the East Coast yesterday. Due to severe thunderstorms. And Canadian smoke from all those fires is now hitting Europe. You know, if you tried to draw up a a very, very frightening. List of stuff or a sweeping descriptive thing. You can hardly beat. What's? Been going on this week. Well as the. John Harris, writing in the Guardian. On Sunday. Oh, man. You know, he was talking about. What has been? Inundating England's towns and suburbs. Fear and exhaustion. And Harris pointed out John Harris is the author. He pointed out well, there's been troubles. There's been. Problems and crises and so forth. But what he's writing about is what he sees as a new and frightening hopelessness. In Britain, and it made me think, and I'm sorry to I mentioned this certainly more than once, but the first. Novel by the French.

Speaker 5: Character uvic.

Speaker 1: The elementary particles he was describing. Very, very powerfully, the. When society ends. And there's just no juice left. There's no there's no energy. It's it's not a dramatic thing, but well it is. But I mean, it's not. You know, fire or ice or something like that. It's. Just everything's drained away. Ain't nothing left. It just stops, you know. This almost sounds like he's. Taking a page from that. Novel that came out. Well, I think it was just more than 20. Years ago now. And from the Independent last Thursday. The number of Britons who have largely preventable diabetes too. Has doubled over the past 20 years. Predicting that there will be more than a billion diabetics by 2050. And you know, this is largely a function of obesity sedentism. You might get up off your couch, or you can buy a car without even missing much more than a commercial as you're staring at the tube. The United Nations report out today. Cocaine use and production globally is at an all time high. Surprising no one, I suppose. And noise pollution. Yes, it's a pretty much a constant so many places. Quite annoying but. It was at peace last Tuesday in the New York Times, the DIN of daily life threatens the health of 1,000,000. Yeah, chronic noise. Proves deadly. Not just a pain in. The neck. And it talks about the 1972 Noise Control Act. Under the EPA. Well, that proved to be absolutely unenforceable. Just another. Kind of silly gesture. Kind of a mockery of the real thing.

Speaker 2: We have Artemis on the phone.

Speaker 6: John, how you doing?

Speaker 5: Good, good. My pleasure. Thanks for calling.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I just wanted to to say two things as first, thank you for talking about the scene. I got some orders. I know for a fact people would e-mail me saying, hey, I heard you on or I heard John talking about the scene. I would love. I would love one or two. Of them. So I'm going to.

Speaker 5: Oh good.

Speaker 6: Say yeah, it's. Been, you know, great collaborating with all the people. Like you mentioned, Steve, Jason, even Sasha. Was a big. Help, just maybe silly, just annoying them with calls or texts and be like. Does this look good? Does this sound good? They're like just just do it. Just shut up and do it.

Speaker 5: Oh, wow. Cool. Oh, it's marvelous.

Speaker 6: And then, yeah, and so it's been, it's been great and actually through it, I've realized I got one from a from someone that only lives like an hour away from me and people. It's like, whoa. Just like already the scene making really great connections with people I had known and it solidified. Or it's opening up, you know, new opportunities, which is awesome. And so I want to say thank you for like, helping facilitate that in a. Lot of different ways.

Speaker 1: Oh, my pleasure, man. I mean it very.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And then. Oh, go on.

Speaker 1: Much so and I'm. It sounds like you're already enthused for for a #2.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I did two print runs of of plastic meter one and I went to them immediately. And so there is the demand and people are reaching out. Like can I write for #2? I'm like. I guess so.

Speaker 5: Oh, wonderful. That's so encouraging.

Speaker 6: Right. Because I imagine it was going to be just. Ohh, maybe just the people that wrote. And then my friends. And then it was people. New Zealand, Ireland, Canada or like, can I get one I'm like. Oh my God.

Speaker 5: Literally hear that.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's also really scary because I'm just waiting for people to be like, this sucks.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Now that I have it horrible.

Speaker 6: That's the scary thought, but yeah, it's been. It's awesome. I haven't done an official call yet, just cause I'm trying to. I'm trying to make sure I'm confident in the theme, but I'm also just kind of doing some private ask like, hey, I know you couldn't do a number. One, but I really want to have you in. Two. So then hopefully in the next like month or so, I'll probably do like. A public like here's #2, something like that. That's probably the plan and hopefully to get it out by the end of this year. So I could have two out in the year. I think that would. Be pretty, pretty manageable I think, I hope.

Speaker 1: Well, that would be like two and six months because you know, we're about halfway through the air.

Speaker 6: Right. Yeah, right. So we'll see. We'll see. I just, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, which is a, you know, another part. It's one thing to do during the summer when I I don't, I only have a part time job and not when I'm teaching. And then. You know everything that comes with that, so we'll see. The second thing I want to talk about is kind of a question for you is because my part time job, I'm outside a lot. I work with some forest preserves and things of that nature, and we're just noticing like the ephemeral ponds are gone like a month early than they should be. Things of that nature and my coworkers, they talked about climate anxiety, which is a. Term, you and listeners probably are aware of. I'm curious what your thoughts are like this climate anxiety. Do you think that's a valid response or do you think that's a response that's generated by corporations? You know what I mean? Like corporations and stuff. Like, what do you think the response should be to climate change? Blake, I've been using the term planet rage or climate angst as opposed to anxiety because I don't say like, I don't want to perceive myself as a victim or on the defense. It's like rather it should be. What avenues are opening up to us through this while also being realistic about the consequences. So I'm curious what your take on that is.

Speaker 1: Well, that sounds right to me. And you know, anxiety is generally kind of free floating. It can be strong, no doubt about it. But you know, it doesn't really go anywhere. And you think it's feel better if you try to. You know, do something in, in, in the area of resisting and. You know, speak your mind and you know do then you might feel. Less victimized, you know, not so. Put in a passive position. You know, I think that's that's can make make a difference in you know just make a difference for the individual. Does it feel a little better about things?

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 1: But it's there. I mean, you know, we're bombarded, bombarded and I help with the bombarding. You know, if the. With the dreadful highlights of the. You know, following civilization and that's and yeah, the physical environment is just to. Unavoidably, you could debate some of the rest of it. Possibly. But you know there's no getting around the the facts of of coming down. So obviously and historically it's it scares people, it's scares kids there. They're not. They're coming. Up in the midst of this and the yeah, it's going to be bad news.

Speaker 6: Right. Yeah, I I think that's true. And I mean like with my work, just the thought of like when we when we're hiking right and then you just realize how dry the ground is and you're like, that's not meant to look like that. The river is meant to be a whole lot higher than that. Like that's a scary feeling when it's, you know when you realize it's structural. So like when you remove an invasive species or you pick up litter, it's like no matter what I do as an individual, it fundamentally probably. Doesn't mean a lot. Right. But it's also like, what else are you supposed to? Right, there's the anarchist response to that right. But then there's it's also just the bombarding of, oh, you have to be realistic. You have to play your part. You can only do so much. And I think, like those answers, actually just. Feed into the anxiety. If well, if I can't do anything. You know.

Speaker 5: I know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, his people personally too. I mean, we used to go every August pretty much to this place in Central Oregon called Twin Lakes and now the toxic algae rolls that out, that's just gone. That's we we had to stop doing that. Things like that. I mean it. That's one of the. Things that's so. Well, it's. You can see it for one thing also. I mean then it's stock like for another thing it's you know it's a specific thing that you come up against and worse and worse. And so it's it hits people more directly. Very often, you know it's not just what you read about and it scares you, it's. Go outside and. Yeah, there it is.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 6: Right out of curiosity is the air quality issues reaching out to where you're at?

Speaker 1: Well, not yet. We haven't had much of any smoke here. Two years ago. Very, very bad heat and very bad smoke. But here we are still in June, so.

Speaker 4: He invited.

Speaker 1: They're four as far as already in Southern California, but not nothing much up here, but. It's going to happen. I mean it's. It was a pretty wet winter. Lots of snow pack, which is good, you know, but also grows up a lot of fast growing foliage and then that can dry out and catch fire easily later, you know, so but now it's not bad.

Speaker 6: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just. Curious because I mean even down to. Illinois versus where? I live the air quality is. It's in that like yellow, orange or even red, depending where you're at, or I think about Brady, the Co host of uncivilized. And he's in Minnesota. And when it was really bad a couple weeks ago. He's like can. You, you know, he watched the work. He's like, I can see like a quarter mile ahead of me. But otherwise it's just fog, or you made a good point. You can look at the sun without. Blinking because it's so covered like. That's not a good thing, that. You can be able to look right. At the Sun at any point in the day and not. You know you're you're not wincing. And I I I thought about that. I looked up at the site today. I was like, yeah, I can look at the sun just fine. And the fact it's like orange, it's like the apocalyptic, you know, it inspires a sense of apocalypse. But then the irony is it's business is casual, right, business as usual. Rather, that's the. That's the scary thought. Yeah.

Speaker 1: It goes on, you know, until it doesn't go on and then yeah, it's hit.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, that's, that's all I had and ending on a really bright note as usual, right, right. Well, I appreciate you taking my call. You have a great one.

Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Great to hear your voice. Well, let's that was very cool. Let's we got a music break. Queued up with.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave bass.

Speaker 1: OK. Dave. Beth. Yeah. Let's have a little of that. Thanks.

Speaker 2: That's a nice record.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Nice little riff there in the middle. Well, there are a huge number of seems like a lot more than usual, or maybe I. Haven't been so completely tuned into them, but spring and summer now summer. Too many to list and all over the map. South America, like for example, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil. Seattle here and the Los Angeles Center has put fear back after five years in August, and I had a whole list of ones that have already happened, which I didn't get to, so I can. Leave that alone, but. Wanted to get back to. The murderer of Raymond Mattia, who's tonight? Oh, I know a friend of his. Oh, it's. Person down there. Southwest of Tucson. On their land was murdered earlier in the month by US Border Patrol. In league. With the. Oh no. Official police, who were paid by. By the feds, of course. Yeah, there was a video that just came out. Shows the unarmed person Matia walking out of his house to talk with the Border Patrol, who showed up. Whereupon he was shot 9 times. So the autopsy decided it was homicide. As if there was any question. And and Mattia had evidence of joint Border Patrol and cartel partnership. Regarding drugs across the border. And if you wanted to get more on this story, censored news for June 26 is the latest. They've got the latest on this. Homicidal operation by the Border Patrol, backed up by the official. Tribal police. Well, the the marvelous new 12 minute film talked about it last. Week reimagining community Darsha Narvaez recently talked about it and. I'm hopeful about something hasn't come out. It's not. It's not coming out till July. This Oppenheimer movie, new Christopher Nolan film. There was a piece in Wired how Christopher Nolan learned to stop worrying and love AI. Obviously, the play on the. Learn to. Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb. AI is not the atomic bomb, but the new technology is afoot in the world and. And I'm thinking that's might be. Might have a good take in that general direction. I hope because there's some other stuff that's the usual weakness from the Yale climate connections. An interview with. Famous Bill McKibben. Where has he been lately? Well, he's got something cooking now called third act. This is. This is for people over 60. So yeah, he figures it's not just young activism. That's. On offer, I mean it should be older folks. So mobilizing them to do what well to register and to vote and to demonstrate at banks that. Bankroll fossil fuel industry as if that's anything new. So weak this guy still doesn't have any clue whatsoever, no matter how. Horrific it gets. But there's some I mentioned this in passing new zones or new numbers. The local kids #9. Is right now out summer of 2023 calls for action. In a new one, anti Systema. Which is bilingual and English and German. For anarchy and passionate destruction with the eco orientation, to be sure. Radical energy there. And locally I've been a small part of. In Eugene and surrounding area of graffiti graffiti #5 just came out. Had a little party for that on. The weekend. If you see that, grab it up and it's very open to new stuff. Some good writing. I think it's gotten better and better. And now they're putting out 1000 issues. 1000 copies, I mean. Seems to me there was another scene. Anyway, let's get on to some of the Action News. June 6 two oil tankers were stormed by indigenous environmentalists. In canoes with Molotovs and Spears in northeast Peru. Increasingly radical activity against. Oil, which is extracted and. Sent on to Brazil to spoiling the environment. June 12th of Berlin Coal Power Plant was hit by an incendiary device. June 12th and 21st. In Indonesia, 8 ATM's were destroyed in South Sumatra province and East Java province. Than the communique as a very anti self flavor. Anti 7 in support of anarchist prisoner hunger striker Alfredo Cospec Ito. In Athens, defending the Exarchia. On June 9th and expensive restaurant interior, interior was trashed. And its expensive wine cellar destroyed. That was June 9th, June 15th. The police station at Strefi Hill, which is just part of exorcism. I know where that is at the bottom of Streva Hill. Molotovs were employed during a shift change. Wow. That is defiance. Yeah, they're trying to defend exactly against gentrification and development. And a new subway stop. But other ways to try to ruin to try to get the. This hotbed of anarchist life. On June 11th, New York City's gig food delivery workers got a minimum wage. Pay boost from $7.00 an hour to $18.00 an hour. Already effective the workers justice project pushed this. A nice result there, June 16th. In Pittsburgh. Half a dozen turf anti trans haters. Were drowned out by. Folks who outnumbered them, at least 12:50, these anti trans creeps. Yeah. Pathetic. Show up. Show as they. They don't seem to get anywhere these heaters. Or shown the door, shall we say. Time after time. There's a piece today in the LA Times. About the solar sprawl in the Mojave Desert. Corporations are planning to carpet the desert surrounding Las Vegas with giant solar installations. So you're going to have the industrial strength version of the alternative if you want to keep stuff going. That should have never been started in the 1st place, so. And industrialization that would certainly. Bring ruin to various plants and animals. Well, it's kind of the broken record here, but social media. There's a piece in Psychology Today by Hank Rothberger. About how smartphones and social media are major cause of the teen mental health crisis. Thank you, RC, and thank you for this one too. In the UPI news. Kara munez. Writes about how less social media. Equals better mental health for college students. And yesterday this is the fitness kind of story, but. Yeah, yesterday's New York Times piece is called. It's not just a chat bot, it's a life coach. Yeah. Meaning, you know, fitness deal. But but the meaning, but the word life, yeah, it it is a life coach that's for sure. And and more than just a coach. We might have to say. But you know, that's just. Intruding on every area. With speed. An interesting piece in the Sunday New York Times. Somewhat Luddite, I guess a piece called done with scrolling time for a flip phone. Yeah, dump the smartphone, read a book, but. The Reno also had to concede that, well, you still have to have a smartphone for work. So yeah you can. It's not quite the free choice exactly, really in any sense. Well, another couple of Rosie news things here. You know this, this derailment thing has become kind of a fad and it don't mean to make too light of it, but. Saturday near Billings, just West of Billings, Mt. Train carrying types of materials. And a bridge collapsed into the Yellowstone River. They're not too clear on how much very toxic stuff on this train, how much of it? Got into the river. They seem to be. Kind of. Mum on that maybe coming out later. Yeah, just a chronic thing. You want industrialized life? It's. Anyway the the. They kind of dismal and down part of everything is. You know, it is just a throw away kind of a thing. Last Thursday was reported that 13 year olds in the US. Registered the lowest math and reading scores. All about testing, of course, but low scores since they began. Charting this in 1990. Not a big long. Range there, but 13 year olds. Kind of turning off. Well, yeah, I do want to say, get your copy of graffiti locally here. And you know, as Artemis said, there are ways to jump on. And uh. Share What you're thinking and feeling about what's coming down and uh. And be part of this and I think you know, I was trying to say at the beginning making a contrast. With some of these old line. Sort of. You know, the prevailing kind of anarchist media sites and their. What they do? Where they're at, and it's just a an amazing contrast to me that there's there's exciting stuff coming on. We'll see how far it goes, but. Yeah, I think. I mean, could hardly be worse. It could hardly be. Less unavoidable this. Of the all the AI, all the chat bot stuff all the. Takeover of functions and. Productions, symbolic and otherwise, that. Have heretofore been the usual thing. It's. It's a fast moving world. It's fast getting worse and it's fast time for. Oppositional things. You know, new energies, and I think that's coming on. I really do. I've been accused of. Just clutching at straws, but I don't know I'm I'm getting this feeling even though to some degree things are relatively quiet. I mean and I like to. Always or almost always share some. You know, quickie resistance briefs from here and there. I don't know. Sometimes I think you can feel like something's going on and. As well as. What's too awfully. Dominantly going on but. Yeah, something else going on as well. Yeah, he's well, this one last thing here. Might as well get it out, because I'm going to. I won't be back for. Couple of weeks. We're watching the sky as we know it disappear. Piece from late last week. Yeah, as Artemis mentioned, the the haze, you know the pollution. The light pollution in the night sky that's part of it too. And it's that night. Now all the fires had chronic worsening smoke in the daytime sky, so. Can't let it disappear. We're going to go in a different direction. And thanks for listening and. Talk to you in two weeks. Take care.

Speaker 4: There, lad.

Speaker 7: Queen man a common flares above love. Safety need man damn. The mud.

Speaker 4: With a hammer and a glove.

Speaker 7: The breaking of the.

Speaker 4: Frames traveling the heavens. Hearing in love? The whisper in rain. They hear and they're loud. Through the flickering rain. Queen Mab and Ned Ludd. Lies above everything, the men.

Speaker 7: She be which?

Speaker 4: Is she who stands by the factory wall? She bewitches she who stands. By the Willow by the pond. And queen. A weaver's not a whipper. If he's whipping on a factory friend.

Speaker 7: Queen man and.

Speaker 4: It lives in the forest and the valleys in the fall.

Speaker 3: Not in.

Speaker 4: And the. By the Pines and the caves of your mind. The California coastline. Queen man. Flickering flames and we're seeing Queen man. Through the whisper in flames.

Speaker 7: On the. Are the ruins of a goat.

Speaker 4: In the ever of your brain. And the shaking of the shadow. The whisper it rain queen man. Yeah, we'll. Through the flickering rain.

Speaker 7: Shall breathe.

Speaker 4: She have made five wood eyes. Shall. From no one. From the one. Be the grain. From the one. Be the grave. From no one's life.

06-20-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Darcia Narvaez film "Reimagining Humanity." Severe heat so soon. Is technology "exponential and irreversible"? Emma Goldberg: "People Are Rethinking their Relationship Not Just to Work but to Time." Rising tide of mass shootings. Isolation, absence of trust blamed on "social" media. Is the Singularity already here? New drugs: even more lethal. Resistance news, In Plastic Utero, Unravel.

Speaker 1: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 2: That's right. You're listening to KWVA, Eugene, where it is 7:00. Promptly, we're starting on time. It's summer and time for anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John. We have music from lung. To get us going.

Speaker 3: Distinct ships you. Right. So.

Speaker 0: Have to choose.

Speaker 4: It was. It was always on.

Speaker 0: But you don't.

Speaker 4: My mind it was.

Speaker 0: Just a way.

Speaker 3: And sucking my skin. I have to choose those.

Speaker 4: It was just a waste of time, but you.

Speaker 3: Don't know how we've goes.

Speaker 0: It was just too late.

Speaker 4: From my body.

Speaker 3: It was just a waste of time. You are always on my mind.

Speaker 0: It was just the way.

Speaker 1: Anything radio is indeed. June 20th Co is a little off. You said it's summer, but it isn't quite yet. Summer tomorrow is the solstice.

Speaker 5: And he neglected to say I was here in the studio as well.

Speaker 0: Exactly what I told you I did, I said. I'm in the studio with John and.

Speaker 5: Catherine. No. What? I'm pretty sure you missed that.

Speaker 2: We're going to. Have to we'll we'll listen back to the replay.

Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get the tape. Let's get the tape.

Speaker 5: Anyway, summer's tomorrow.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you're here.

Speaker 5: Glad to be here. Hey, I want to just do a shout out as we speak, Darsha Narvaez, who we did an interview with a couple of weeks ago, is doing a launch a zoom launch party at as we speak. I believe for a new movie she made called reimagining Humanity. You can get it just looking up reimagininghumanity.com. That'll give you. It's a 12 minute. Phil, basically what she says. The idea of doing the film was first to change behavior. We need to have a goal of vision of how things can be to motivate change, be reimagining humanity provides this vision. Things don't have to be the way they are. In fact, they've hardly ever been this way. #2. Second, you need a specific direction. That's the indigenous worldview and its manifestations we can all. Assess our worldview practices and move them towards kinship with one another and the rest of the natural world. Again, 99% of humanity manifested the indigenous worldview and 3rd to accomplish this vision you need steps the evolved. And we talked about that in the interview. We can all practice nestedness in every aspect of our lives, listening to nature, respecting the needs of babies, gently receiving others perspectives, playing joyfully with one another, grieving and healing together. So the overall message of reimagining humanity is that our ancestors knew how to live well and fully, with diversity. In Oneness, we can do so too. So just once again, a thumbs up shout out to Garcia and her cohort. I believe an another individual 4 arrows was involved in the making of this 12 minute 12 minute film so.

Speaker 1: Wonderful piece to say so much in 12 minutes. I also, yeah, she was also stressing the remembering. It's not something that never existed, and it's it needs to be recalled and of course implemented. Very lovely job. And great interview two weeks ago, for sure. What a clash with the with reality, of course. I only get it's been 2 seconds on this but the the amount of mass shootings is just. Staggering just keeps growing, and this past weekend was a cavalcade of mass shooting. You know the Juneteenth. Weekend, the Father's Day, weekend, whatever you call it. I mean, especially just to mention the 123 people shot West of Chicago suburb of Chicago.

Speaker 5: All over nationally, Columbia Gorge up there.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, from one end of the country to another. It wasn't 23 fatalities, but it was. And I think 23 people were shot.

Speaker 5: And and it and it's is certainly remarkable and worth commenting on that that like you said, that the holiday that we arrived here at U of O and it's graduation, everybody's carrying flowers and balloons and stuff wearing their graduation garb. And it's yesterday was Juneteenth celebrations, and the day before that was Father's Day, you know, and regardless of what these holidays are in a culture, you know? Of whatever level of celebration and then coincident with that, is these shootings happening at places of shooting among the innocents? You know, it's like at a rock concert up the gorge in the amphitheater, shootings on the ones outside Chicago. I mean it's it's kind of like a a lemmings jumping off the Cliff.

Speaker 1: And once again, not just the USA. There were two match shootings in Serbia in two days. Remember that, like, was it 10 days ago or so.

Speaker 5: Absolutely. And it's not just shootings, you know, it's stabbings. It's like all kinds of methods. This Wall Street Journal, the main lockdown, casualties, children and and you can't fail to note in 2020, suicide was the 2nd. And homicide, the 4th leading cause of death among adolescents aged 10 to 14. Spike in homicides has drawn less attention than the suicides, but between 19 2019-2020 one it is 10 to 24 increased 37%. Even more in those 15 to 1944% and 10 to 14. 56%.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And part of the savagery is, you know, just part of the. I don't know physical nuts and bolts of it. You read about fentanyl, fentanyl, the big killer. Well, there are several drugs that are more powerful, more lethal even than fentanyl. You know. You and I remember this perhaps the 60s smoking pot. This stuff that's smoking now is like 100 times more powerful, one hit wonder. Blow your head off with 11 toke pretty much. Wow, that tells you a lot right there.

Speaker 5: Well, Anne Anne, right there and the fact that it's illegal, you know, and so many, I mean the pacification, the annihilation of the up and coming generations with these like the the self destruction, the, the put on them, destruction of lives. Is is breathtaking.

Speaker 1: That's why we. Need dosha Norway? Yes. That is just a beautiful. Yeah, from her, you know that hope for the reverberates. And I hope that launch too bad it coincides with our broadcast here. But.

Speaker 5: But the film at any time like is worth checking out. Worth sharing, worth having people come over or gather in some kind of place. Look each other in the face and look at something that's a different way of looking and being in the world.

Speaker 1: In just 12 minutes, it's very stunning in that regard. You know, I said so much in 12 minutes.

Speaker 5: For sure. And the whole, you know the summaries or the whole. There is a growing trend on the positive side of looking at indigenous life ways at at at Kinfolk systems, at at a different way of being from the horror that that's being advocated and promoted and constantly noted in the mass media in. In all the, all the. Productions of the. Technological systems, the media, the communication systems of our time, which are not the face to face.

Speaker 1: There was a piece last week. You know, it didn't seem like very long ago. It wasn't very long ago at. All you know, the transhumanists with their singularity. Pretty *****. Pretty. Not too many people thought that was well, it's imaginable, perhaps, but kind of way out there. Well, now it's here already. Maybe. It's already uh, yeah, present it's. Just leaps and bounds the the barren techno verse is taking over more and more of this so-called machine learning. You know, drastic changes and. Exponential. Irreversible. That's the kind of thing. Which certainly scares people. It should, and and there is a lot of antipathy. There's a lot of not only fear of it, but, you know, active dislike of it, which is just.

Speaker 5: For sure, I mean you got the Wall Street Journal writing editorials about the unabomber's ideas aren't so marginal now. His sense of crisis, his belief that technology was on the brink of making the planet unlivable, is now shared even by many of the people who create that.

Speaker 1: What? What was the? Wall Street Journal what date was that?

Speaker 5: This is the Wall Street Journal. This is on the 18th June 18th. Look at that long, big page. Ideas aren't so and and and, I mean, you talk to you, just talk to people on the street. And that's absolutely true. They'll always paraphrase with, you know, like.

Speaker 1: Oh, OK. Two days ago, yeah.

Speaker 5: Don't appreciate the killing. You know he killed innocent people or whatever. What is innocent? But but the in terms of the ideas and and the understanding that what is pretty much. General growing general understanding that this technology is not here for us and and it's the the so-called you know the so-called networks and we're all going to be connected and communication is going to be so great is really clearly being revealed that. This is absolutely not true, and we're just being forced to be connected to a machine.

Speaker 1: Everywhere you. Experience life. You see the opposite. Interesting piece of last week in the New York Times called we asked eleven Americans why it's so difficult to trust one another. And part of the thing, in fact, the first factor they talked about was social media. People are isolated. You can't easily trust people you're separated from, and that separates, you know, the death of the social. The you just plugged in into the screens and where is the connection you know it's. That's just a fact of life. I mean, it's just a given, you know, difficult. The difficulty of trust, the absence of trust. When did that happen? I mean, you will we we can see rather easily when it happened. You know, step by step with the technology.

Speaker 5: Well, and and I mean the key point to me is like the the absolute you and the sensory in the human, your connection, you're not looking the other person in the eye, you're not smelling them, you're not seeing them, you're not feeling them, you know, it's just that alienation. It's all. Transmitted through a machine through the prosthetic. Right. You're low. Got your low smartphone in your pocket and to relate to the world, you better take it out of your pocket and get yourself in your stance of submission, bowing your head and holding it between your hands. And connected and and it's just the absence of the sensors and the sensory input. The body is replaced by the machine.

Speaker 1: And it's felt very viscerally not always articulated, but the Verge 4 days ago. Peace by Elizabeth Lopata called some things you can do if you're sick of social media. And she says almost anything. If you can get away from the enclosure of the screen and she asks, is a pretty good piece. She says when was the last time you had fun online? Simple question, right? Anybody having fun with that? We'll put.

Speaker 5: Well, and we had a caller last week, I think it was Todd talking about Accelerationism and and I think that that it certainly was significant that in 2020 and the pandemic and all the the huge jump in in the acceptance and the reliance of technology in our lives. Function that doesn't go away. You don't go backwards. There was another article, pandemic habits that. That won't die from shopping to exercise to work. Americans aren't going to go back to the way things were before, and you see that you see that in the stores where the stores that even remain open don't carry the goods you're supposed to shop online. Ordering food pickups increasingly strapped consumers. Or ordering online, skipping delivery and picking up items in persons. Mobile ordering is a big piece of it. Hybrid workouts where you're doing your workouts through zoom or through programs multi channel experiences. A hybrid exercise schedule that combines Jim visits with at home workouts, same things, schools, education, you know, just the the infiltration into every aspect of what used to be a social life is now the machine life and and the unkillable video call. People are making more video calls and hosting more meetings on zoom than ever, and this is this is not the pandemic you know.

Speaker 1: You know, post pandemic. Well, I think there is some. New York Times Book Review 2 days ago essayed by Emma Goldberg. And she argues that people are rethinking their relationship not just to work but to time. That's kind of profound insofar as it's happening. Uh. She calls it in search of a new texture of time. They're getting to some pretty basic things in the connections. I think can be made to all the rest of it. You know the poverty of work they've. The onerous nature of. More and more. Time as a thing that stands over us. You know all that, it's, it's. It's part of modernity. And I think it's clearer ever clearer via the technology. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but. You know, I think it's related.

Speaker 5: I I think certainly the in the accelerationist the the rapidity this the the speed up of time in in many ways and the the the technology is is part of that the whole look at texting look at the the shortening of. Of conversation, of language, of even amount of words used. There's just this. You just don't have time.

Speaker 1: And attention span. And the machine goes faster and faster. We get more. I'm I'm copped to this myself. You get more impatient if you have to wait like 2 seconds. Because the pace of the machine is what dictates that you. Otherwise you know who cares if it's two seconds or not, you know.

Speaker 5: What I mean, there's an expectation that it's instantaneous and it's not. And so then you get repetition. You have to repeat over and over again the same thing. We've done because. You you move too fast for it, and in fact you need to slow down, but there's nothing to do but wait on the machine.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It seems like it. Well, we were saying how we were wondering what's what's in the air, you know what's? One way to put it, I saw a recent piece about. Op-ed piece about Joan Didion's the white album. And she was talking. I mean, we've all, if we're old enough to have some kind of experience of this, the. What happened in the late 60s, the end of the 60s, end of the movement? She called it snapping that the movement just snapped. But now it's one thing to to recall that perhaps you know the movement of the 60s. It broke down, you know. For whatever reasons came to an end. Now it seems like it's society that's snapping the movement that was, that was serious. I'm not saying it wasn't, but. Maybe something deeper than that is just. Going on and we're trying to, you know, figure. Out what it?

Speaker 5: Is. Yeah. Yeah. I I would throw in there for Joan Didion, that the whole repression, the repressive elements, it certainly was the leading edge of the snapping and and now it's like the. The attempts and the investments and everything is to prevent civilization and society snapping, and so you've got surveillance, you've got massive, you've got, you know, you're chaining people. Essentially the machines you're hooking them up, you're surveilling them. You can, you know, control. It's all about controlling and that's. The control that the repression that came on the 60s, a lot of that was like you just like intense, violent, overt. Assault, you know, and police measures police state kind of stuff, all all kinds of all kinds of BS going on.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the other where it was certainly part of it. Central part of it. Well, it's 541-346-0645. We're urging you to call. Yeah, let's see. Alex sent me this. I think it was yesterday from the Center for Humane Technology. Kind of a Ted talk. As I was saying. From the two Co founders of this Center for Humane Technology, it was all about the scary capacities of AI and what what we're seeing. You know, you read about it every single day. You know it can mimic anything, copy anything and predict anything produce and what have you. They even said it's. Belief systems can be machine generated and will. Be so generated very soon. And these are two. Techno cats, I mean they've Co founders. If it sounds like a real, you know, con job of a typical, how do you peddle the high tech stuff? Humane technology? You know, if technology is fine, we just need to make it. A little more human, you know? That's crap. But these these guys just you trying out do each other by saying how, how astoundingly totalizing it is, and taking over everything and they were not cheering it on even though they. Pretty clearly in a big hand in getting it to where it is.

Speaker 5: Well, and a lot of that discussion now, the generative AI and the the whole chat box and the influence is like 2 steps behind. Where, where, where. Were so much tied up in it and talking about it and critiquing it after we're already under under an iron heel of it, the. The belief system, the everything involved in it, is like. Rather mind boggling that here was an article on it. Would you like human interaction with that burger? Fast food chains bring chat bots to the drive drive through. It has been predicted that artificial intelligence will revolutionize computer programming, enable widespread cheating among college students, and possibly even destroy the human race. For now, AI chat bots are still learning the art of taking orders for burgers and fries. Just having that relief of not having to communicate with the customer would be awesome, said the visa bread bread worker in in one of the fast food places. And this talks about the how, how you can really program the chat bots and it's a preferred. Experience the chat bots don't have attitudes. They you know, so it makes it a pleasant experience with with.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no unpleasant humans, you know, no interaction.

Speaker 5: Unpleasant. That's right. They even program them to be more conversational, say things like, you betcha and gotcha. So. So we feel more bonded to them. Is it's all. It's already here and what it what it's doing to us and our human interactions is the plague of loneliness and the homicides and the suicides, the. That that's where you know, these are all, like separate conversations rather than than starting to connect the dots and and.

Speaker 1: Also, just the old capitalist part of it, I think is interesting. Ashley Vance wrote something called when the heavens. On sale. Launching capitalism into space. You know these. If you have a lot of money, you can go into space for. A while, like you know. Elon Musk, all the other entrepreneurs. Yeah, for for millionaires only. And today. Interesting news. Giant news today. In other words, no news that they could. Understand or want to go to the story of the billionaire. Who's probably dead? This Titanic tourist dive.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Probably all over. That's yeah, capitalism. You going to be enormously rich? I think it cost. I don't know. I forget what? It wasn't $1,000,000 but.

Speaker 5: There's a quarter of a million per person for a tourist tourist side of the Titanic.

Speaker 1: Quarter of a minute. Go down to see the rank. Yeah.

Speaker 5: And there's submersible is probably on the bottom of the ocean and unretrievable for what? Cheap thrilled. Not so cheap, not so cheap.

Speaker 1: The cheap techno thrill. So the pieces of it won't even come up to the. Surface of it, huh?

Speaker 5: Have any pieces come up? No, no.

Speaker 1: No, maybe they won't, because the too much pressure on it.

Speaker 5: Or or what I mean I I don't even pretend to understand like.

Speaker 0: Don't know.

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Speaker 5: But it is. It's part of, you know, it's part of those glorious stories that they like to the kid at the bottom of the well or the soccer players stuck in the tunnel, you know, kind of thing. And we'll go in and save them and this one. Like it seems they tread into stories that there is no salvation coming, you know, this is like this is. The amazing technology ride this submersible simply constructed thing that you can sell seats on it to go view the Titanic and you end up dead in in the depths of the ocean. Meeting where? Where is meaning man search for meaning.

Speaker 1: Well, people do on natural things because they there is no meaning. They there is no substance in their lives and so they have to get some kind of a thrill. And if you get enough money, you can. You know there there are various ways to get it through, I guess.

Speaker 5: And but with these competing realities, these virtual realities, these promises of technology and wondrous things we can, you know, we can go down to the bottom of the ocean and look at the Titanic. Killed 1500 people. You know how many years ago? Call call in where was I going with that one?

Speaker 1: Well this. Might be a good time for a music break for about at the half hour. Well, people ponder their telephone calls. Back or on the other side? Did you see anything? I think there was maybe more than one article about this, about the Bill Paul disaster of 1984 for some reason. Isn't quite 40 years anniversary, but the Union Carbide chemical plant explosion killed 30,000. In northern India. Anyway, the point of the article, the reason I they beamed it worth. Dredging up is that the survivors of that have a 27 times greater risk of cancer than other people. So it's an industrial disaster that keeps on giving. I guess it lives on. That's a long time ago.

Speaker 5: It's long time, but the repercussions you know. Cross time that that leads into some of the stuff I have on healthcare because healthcare really is a place where where you're seeing very much in the present that this artificial intelligence and this, this use of computations and and. And extraction or or removal of senses and human input into what? Humanity has always been concerned with caring for the ill or caring for, you know, providing in some way for disease and death, and and in the present day the the There's programming now in in American healthcare systems. Of the the machines that people are connected to for warnings based on like, you know, the machine. Constantly crunching the numbers and will pick up on things and tell the nurse who's at the bedside like warning septic septic were in danger of sepsis. And so you puts forth series of protocols. She's supposed she or he is supposed to implement. And and recent article pointed out that. A lot of times there's disagreement that that there's intuition that there's observation, which is a part of health traditionally, was a part of healthcare that's being somewhat supplemented or imposed by these machines and algorithms doing assessments and requiring humans to. Act in response to machine dictates and and so that's kind of creating. Difficult situations for the individuals in the field on choosing not to respond and following what they see and then being penalized or punished if if the outcomes are not good and and so so. So there's a lot I I would say in many ways. Healthcare is a cutting edge field. Healthcare and education are both kind of cutting edge service industries where. There the the implications and the the real results of adverse results are already taking taking place. So so on that note, I'll, I'll just say in and and this is there's no direct correlation or there's an indirect correlation. Portland, right now, for the first time in something like 2022 years, couple 1000 nurses at Providence are on a 5 day strike in in their contract negotiations. And and I think it in a number of a number of. Industries and all you are seeing more labor unrest and it's being controlled and handled as much as it can be, as it always has been through contract unionism. But but you certainly seeing some some action and interactions by. By people in workplaces that that are are rejecting it and and trying to deal with the changes that are being imposed on them and whether it's, you know, wrapped up in things about staffing or shortage of shortage of people in the labor force or. Other, you know, sound bites of what the issues are, certainly the the. Machine human interface and how much the machines have dictated and changed the nature of work is part and parcel of that.

Speaker 1: Let's the burnout in healthcare too. People are leaving the field. For example, nursing is quite a.

Speaker 5: Lot throughout the whole all the service industries and all the the ability to get I mean that's also use an excuse for why we're bringing in. More and more of these technological systems is certainly the baby boom population. You know, we crested and we're on. We're on the downside. And and there's not enough young people to replace.

Speaker 2: You might be able to find.

Speaker 5: The the the jobs we used to have, they're always talking about nurses, teachers retiring and the shortages in the workplace.

Speaker 0: You know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, we have the numbers and then further down the trail, fewer people demographically.

Speaker 2: Spinitron.com.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. And China, China is another example of that where, you know, you regulated reduced the population and then? What's needed to keep the industry and the systems that have been in process and the number of people existing right now like there's you got a shift in that and who's who's available to to do things the there was an article here about doctors working in the system.

Speaker 0: I don't know. Every step.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 5: More and more than ever going part time.

Speaker 3: What's that?

Speaker 5: The ditch medicines traditional career path hit the road as temporary physicians for hire, and that's some of rejection of the system and alienation from you know what? What used to be seen as getting some meaning beyond your paycheck in.

Speaker 2: I don't know, but you might you might. Might plug this into Google.

Speaker 5: In the work you were doing to kind of just farm yourself out and get the the part time worker because you're just a cog in the system, you know, you just that part of that machine human network delivering a service.

Speaker 0: Good luck it's.

Speaker 2: It's and another fish and try to find it feels. Good. When you find the.

Speaker 0: All right. Thank everybody.

Speaker 1: End of a long non collie. Yeah, that's. That is at the heart of it. I think. I think you're right. Let me stick in just a little bit of background here. The old physical environment. The earth oceans in May, with the warmest on record, 1850s started. Those records. You know when you got your coral reefs dying, the levels rising. Big prediction for the summer heat. On it was 115 in San Angelo in Central Texas yesterday. Northern India, parts of China. The American South record heat. Along with other erratic stuff. Severe stuff. Last Friday in their Pensacola, FL, they got 12 inches of rain in three hours. That seems impossible, but. And the new book Fire Weather, a true story from a hotter world by John Bayard. Quote around the world. Fires are burning. Over longer seasons with greater intensity than at any other time in human history. Today in the New York Times, the Himalayan glaciers, which provide water for about 2 billion people. Melting 65% faster. Than they did from 2010 to 2019. Yeah, the previous decade faster than was estimated. This is from the International Center for Integrated Mountain Development in Nepal. That's a big old thing.

Speaker 5: There was in the Yale Environment 360 an article on how humans have pumped enough groundwater to change the tilt of the Earth and with melting ice caps and resulting changes in mass distributions. The pumping of the groundwater is is another factor that that the change in the. Changing the the axis on which the planet spins.

Speaker 1: Well, how about some Action News here? We I don't think I had time for it last week, pretty much at all. But a whole page for Artemis. We were saying how he's all over the map here and I was hoping I didn't think it would happen, but it's in the mail, his number one of his new scene. Which is. Which is so named plastic and utero, a journal of anti Civilization Anarchy reborn from the compost of wasteland modernity. And he gives credit to Jason Rogers for the subtitle. Anyway, it's out and he was mentioning last week. How to get it at the 32 page initial? Addition. There are now more issues of oak #5, by the way. And just a word to point to Artemis's critique of Bakunin's productionised, him and Hegelianism. At anarchistnews.org. You know central figure, the daddy of anarchism or something and also and maybe you can help me out with that. I only listen to part of it. Uncivilized podcast #26.5. With melatha, this is the second conversation with him. About indigenous autonomy. And the connection between decolonization and anarcho primitivism.

Speaker 5: And a lot of that was talking about his fnu the. What was that for? Three nations union. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Three nations organizations.

Speaker 5: As a collective body and how to? Include holistic healing for all peoples, all suffering from traumas suffered from separation from the Earth. Full liberation, spiritual, mental, physical, spiritual, spiritual connection to the homeland and and I would say, dovetailing nicely with the the work that Darsha did in, in the, the movie that she's produced. So a lot of that. At studying incorporating living the. With an indigenous world view, understanding what that is is like. Wealthy that. Wealthy field.

Speaker 1: And in practice, recent piece in the CAP times from Madison. Capital of of. Wisconsin local. Water restoration, now working with HO chunk people, stewards of the Madison area lakes for the past 13,000 years. Yeah, looking back before high rises and mega industrial agriculture. That's a positive thing and and another scene, by the way, or actually this is a website, an insurrectionary oriented website called unravel. Was announced just today. To cover things like vandalism, arson, sabotage, and so forth. Yeah, I have. I have kind of fun pointing this out. When all of the Liberals are united in their chorus at the far right, the Neo Nazis are just. Just so awesome and so powerful and so scary and such a incredible threat to so-called democracy, and that every day, almost all day on these liberal news outfits. Well, let's see. On May 28th in Kalamazoo, MI, a drag show was threatened by far right bigots. 4 Creeps showed up versus about 60 defenders. Including Black bloc anarchists. The losers left in a few minutes and. On the 14th and Chico, CA at the Chico LB GT Centre. Two Neo Nazis showed up. And were showed the door. They tried to mess with a pride celebration. Down in Chico, it's pathetic, you know? Don't even don't say stupid things like this is just such a such a powerful, dangerous, violent thing. Now a bunch of creeps who get get their ***** kicked every time they show up. Show me one time they didn't get their. It's kicked. It's just pathetic. You're dreaming about this so-called enemy and you're missing everything that's really important.

Speaker 5: Well, Anne Anne is just part and parcel of electoral politics and the whole whole democratic Republican two party system, democracy, you know, dog and pony show that that that dominates the news as well. And it's like. The the so-called difference between the two, or that there's any choice or any relevance to any of it, it's presented as you know, so black and white and and pick one or the other. And which side are you on? And it's like, hey, two sides of the same thing, you know, give me a break.

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5: What? What kind of joke? What was that we were talking about before? Where you said something about 2024? It'll be the last election.

Speaker 1: Well, that was those two guys from the Center for Humane Technology, and I didn't quite get the literal the specificity. That what all is included, but I think you know in general they. Were talking about the. The overcoming of everything by the by the techno context. You know the what, what you were just talking about a minute ago and. And what we've discussed quite a bit already, how? The this kind of AI generated stuff is is seizing on all kinds of things and. And I you know.

Speaker 5: AI generated in the whole like, you know, the the man behind the curtain awz. It's kind of like the whole election coming up and the two candidates and the, you know, we're going to challenge, you know, it's going to be chat bots or hanging chads or you know, something where where it's just this. This whole. Magic show of disinformation and irrelevance that that there's any substance to it's like the Antifa being the big threat. You know, the the Nazis being outside their door here or something. And it's like, no, no, the.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, same stuff. More liberal nonsense.

Speaker 5: The real the real problem and the real danger, is what's sitting right in front of your face. That's screen.

Speaker 1: Yeah, an Artemis brought up of a very profound point. I thought when he answered well, he posed the question. Well, so AI can do all this and create art, maybe in quotes or writes. It writes, novels, plays and so forth and so on. So what does it tell you about all of this symbolic creation? If it can be so easily replaced by a machine? Maybe it was bogus in the 1st place, maybe it was a bad deal at compensation or. You know. Compete compensation consolation prize for losing what we had when it wasn't just the symbolic, when it wasn't just a world of representation on the screens and elsewhere. Maybe that shows how much it was worth. The whole thing was. Was a game that wasn't worth playing. That was a heavy question he raised. I got a little bit, I just don't want to carry this on too long, but just a few. Maybe 3 action reports here. If I could put them in order. Well, this goes back. Quite a ways, but May 7th in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Incendiary attack on a prison bus and on the night of June 4th to the 5th. The very polluting Lafarge cement plant and quarry in Lauzon, which is down near Leon and in southeast France, had its power conduit. Attacked by setting fire to an electricity tower. And on the 6th. In Lyon, even closer to Lyon. Arson, sabotage against rail lines. And ohh one more thing in that. Well, this is southwest France, but major damage. On June 2nd to a. A metro construction site not wanting another. Mass transit. Things such as the one they're fighting in Athens, the the. Metro stop in the Exarchia. Something about mass society that not everyone's in love with.

Speaker 5: So well, I want to put in a little a little plug people might be interested in taking a look at this video. Machines in flames was what you would look up on YouTube and it's a allegedly. It's a documentary. From about a group in the early 80s called Le Clodo, who were into. Basically the the liquidation and subversion of computers, they were computer workers who were active in France, and it's a a documentary, really quite interesting. So a kind of a a Luddite. Knowing Cloudo, we would have been, we would have to be becoming crudo anyway, called machines in flames. We're we're check it out. Kind of interesting cultural piece.

Speaker 4: No. Hmm.

Speaker 1: Love the label? Yeah, love the title. So the. Oh yeah, one more exciting action thing. This was June 8th. In the Koukaki neighborhood of Athens, a commando style strike against. 4 upscale stores and two ATMs. They were hit in support of an anarchist prisoner and actually another anarchist prisoner who's a hunger striker. Yeah, very bold. Missed up the fronts of those. Those hipsters. Well, we may not even get a call tonight, the ministers.

Speaker 5: Not a single call. My goodness. They wanted to give us all the time. Well, let me just throw in a out of the week, a paid advertisement. Leaders of the G7. You've promised to pass to a secured nuclear future. We're ready to go.

Speaker 1: There you go. That's it.

Speaker 5: Basically, next Gen. Energy, a new kind of uranium mining. We believe nuclear power is the lynch linchpin for both global energy security and a net zero future, and that uranium mining can be can better support that future if it's done in a more sustainable and secure way. Saskatchewan, Canada. They got their sights on for some good old. Let's work together to deliver energy security and achieve net zero. So this energy addicted society will go to any means at any lengths. And now we're going to try and revive belief and belief and faith in. Ohh, the nuclear. That's the way to go. It's been so positive. You know, talk to the survivors of Hiroshima.

Speaker 1: There you go. Or, as Warren Churchill puts it to, lung cancer doesn't come from tobacco smoking. It comes from. Uranium in the air. Not during you. What's the other ones? More heinous than that? I can't think of it. No, it's another form of. It's an isotope of of your.

Speaker 5: Of uranium plutonium.

Speaker 1: That's it. Tonium. Just a teeny tiniest fragment. And mess up your lungs, give you cancer.

Speaker 5: I mean and that just just to wrap it up real quick and put in the lithium mining that's needed, you know all that's needed for these so-called ecosystems that are the electrical vehicles that the Democrats love to carry on about, like the destruction in making them the. Environmental costs just in the production, it's all, it's all a scam and a a. The man behind the curtain. His name is Oz.

Speaker 1: And hazardous, too, when those lithium batteries go up in flames. Well, thank you for being here a fun hour.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. All right. Happy solstice. You know, be careful with that, Tilda. The earth has changed too much, so this won't be what it used to be.

Speaker 1: Right. Oh. Uh oh. Well, take care out there. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 5: Take care. See you next time.

06-13-2023

[audio]

"Who's Joking?" by JZ. The Joker (2019) - 24 carat nihilism. Death of Ted K, Unabomber relevance in a violent technoscape. (Indigenous) kids survive 40 days in Columbian jungle. Collapse in the heat. Trump sideshow. Resistance briefs. The Machine advances, occupying more of what was once intimacy. Chatbot 'literacy.' Plastic in Utero zine unveiled. Three calls.

---

Zerzan: You've been listening to quack smack on KWVA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at KWVA radio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW, a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Carl: Good evening. It is 7:00 o'clock. You are listening to KWVA. Eugene. It is time for anarchy radio. That's right. Anarchy radio.

Zerzan: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Carl: See, I told you. It's anarchy radio. John and I are going to get all situated. Phone number is 541-346-0645. And we have music from Heinz to get us motivated.

Zerzan: June 13th. Anarchy radio. Yes Sery, thank you. Well, just talking about this with Karl a little bit the Joker. I'm willing to bet that the number of you folks. Who gets the show? Probably watch that movie 2019 movie The Joker. Well, I was kind of surfing around. I saw the Denver Nuggets versus the Miami Heat, the NBA Basketball Finals. And you know their star, the nugget, the Nugget star. Nikola Djokovic. Fantastic player. All pro center called the Joker because the 1st 3 letters of his last name are Jay. OK for one thing. And so he's routinely referred to as the Joker. Anyway, I saw some of that, and there was this guy in the stands dressed as the Joker, not the hoopster. Mind you, but the character in the movie. And I was just jolted by that because I was pretty blown away by that movie. The acting for one thing, but it was just such a 24 carat take on nihilism. Guy who was worked as a clown, you know, kind of. Low paid gig worker, you know, was a clown for kids, parties and so forth. Anyway, he's right on the verge of madness. He's given to hysterical laughter quite inappropriately, almost every time. What's going on? The backdrop for the movie is that everything is going downhill in a hurry. And it's harder on him. He gets beat up in the opening scene of the movie, for example, and society's kind of crumbling. And so it’s kind of a madness motif society wise, as well As for Arthur, the main character. Anyway, this is just a lead up I just wrote a short thing. Called who's joking? And I’ve kind of given it quite a bit away already, but I'll just run through it anyway. The Denver Nuggets All Star Center Nikola Jokic is called the Joker. As I watched a bit of the NBA playoff finals, Denver versus Miami, another Joker came to mind. A fan sported the clown makeup of the protagonists of the 2019. Movie The joke. But if adult to have been reminded of that very nihilist figure, especially in the context of a basketball game, the movie powerfully portrayed Arthur's plight, his violent escape from convention into madness in a ruinous collapsing society. The Joker, the film not the Hoopster, is a very potent reminder of the real situation. We are in the calamity of eco collapse, the mental health crisis, especially among youth. Trumpist populism, the rising suicide braid, mass shootings and drug scourge, et cetera, et cetera. A pretty endless ensemble of pathological symptoms of decaying civilization. Arthur is not a quote political character in the movie. I think that gives him an even stronger, more telling significance. In the final scene. The crowd as he's being taken to jail. Hails him as a hero for revealing the violence he's committed. So in that ending, one could discern a kind of political point, and overall one is lender led to ponder the depth of our predicament in reality. In the 1980s, Donna Haraway revealed her Cyborg, A projected avatar of quote, transgressive boundaries. And a potent fusion between nature and artifice. That is. When we meld human and machine, gender will be transcended. No more patriarchy. But here we are in the barren techno verse, certainly no closer to the end of gender inequality, one more healthy techno pipe dream. Getting back to the Joker, Arthur's self destruction is not a way forward. Rewilding A refusal of this techno landscape, however, just might be glimpsed or hinted at. In his break with society. By the way, there were nine people shot. In Denver, following the Nuggets win last night. Brings it all back together, I guess. And let's see, by the way, 541-346-0645. Lots of stuff to talk about tonight, including of course. The techno craziness of the week. Well, one major thing. And I'm grateful for quite a number of people who told me about this early Saturday morning. The death of Ted Kaczynski. At the federal. Prison hospital in North Carolina. He'd been diagnosed as a. A terminal cancer case about two years ago, and he was there, transferred from the Supermax prison in Colorado. Over a year and a half, so. It wasn't a surprise to people who knew that he was. You know, living as long as he did. Sort of predictably I guess. Yesterday it was a very long piece. In the business section. The obituaries section. Of the New York Times, Theodore J Kaczynski, boy genius, turned Unabomber, dies at 81. You think they would have had time to do a more coherent job as if that's the job of the New York Times in the 1st place, but. It's it covers a lot, but it kind of wanders all over the place. In terms of his history, it's, you know, that's what an obituary usually is, of kind of a thumbnail history and. You know what is the significance of this person? Even mentioned by the way anti SIV. That's in quotes anti servena. In a strange kind of unexplained way. Well, the piece. By one Alex Traub, in part is talking about the influence of Kaczynski. And it's 35,000 word, so-called Manifesto Industrial Society and its future. It’s sort of. Wonders here and there. Here's the part that's. Well, he's trying to make sense of it all. I guess and. It's kind of superficial, he, he says of his critique of technological society. Well, he doesn't really even talk about the Internet. Well, for one thing, he wrote it in the 70s, basically well before the Internet. So, and it's pitched at a deeper level than that. Come on, you know, have you ever heard of Jacque? Well, he never heard of the Internet either. And yet. He had some very, very basic tell. Insights as to what is technological society and how it works. And how really nothing escapes it? Now in the 50s. You know, Speaking of pre cyberspace and all that, and here's one little part. As he's trying to figure out. What is the connection? What do people make sense of this or not? He says this is a quote. More curious was the way a variety of law abiding Americans developed an interest in the same line of thought. Yeah, that's kind of telling. There is now especially a. Quite a strong anti tech current I would think. We all are forced to use it. I mean, there's no. Safe Island from it at the moment, that's for sure, but. Yeah, he goes on to refer to people. Especially the young referred to Uncle Ted. So I don't know it just here and there it's you sort of scratching your head at the end of it if you didn't know anything about it to begin with, I guess. Well, another staple of the week. For example, late Saturday night this past weekend in Syracuse, NY, 13 injured in a spree of shooting, stabbings and car collisions. At a quote chaotic mass gathering. Six shot outside a Houston nightclub. At the same time. And of course, pigs are pigs are killing more people, especially blacks, including black children. Another staple. And Thursday night in southeast France, 6 stabbed at a park, 4 kids critically wounded, a nation in shock. It doesn't often happen in France. And we have a color right. Todd, how are you?

Caller #1: Hey, hey, John. I wanted to jump in here just for a moment to mention you were talking about Uncle Ted and I am an arts writer, and I've been seeing that young people almost on the right, more on kind of the avant-garde. Right. The Alt right are very obsessed with Ted Kaczynski. Because of his comments about leftism, oddly enough, even as much as you know he has that whole section of. The thing about leftism. But it's interesting that he's become kind of this for young people. This figure that who, whose conclusions they accept in a very cynical way. Among intellectuals, very young intellectuals, they kind of accept it, and they're they're embracing this, what they call accelerationism, which is this concession to technological acceleration, with the hope that AI will provide some transcendence.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Caller #1: But there's obviously a. Lot of foolishness in that, but anyway I. Just wanted to mention that Ted Kaczynski. Was surprisingly current among right wing intellectuals, and they've been doing a lot of memes and. Things about him.

Zerzan: Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks very much. Well, you know, I think there’s a fairly obvious misunderstanding there. I mean the. Industrial society's future starts with this fairly long assault on the left, and leftism and how. It's so much a question of domestication. Well, that's not a word. He uses but. You know? Uh. Making people more conformist. It's just another part of that whole thing. And you know, first I was a little put off by that. I thought that was detracting from what he was about to get into, which was technology. Not is. That take on the left. I was. I was mistaken about that and I realized. Pet among kids, I was starting to notice. Oh, they got that they weren't fronted off by that. But you know it's. Another part of that one might say, I noticed that anarchistnews.org. You know a bunch of stuff on their chat board since the weekend. Really saying the same thing. Well, he was. And this critique of the left and the same thing with the folks who are the contemptuous, they criticize the left, therefore they must. Be right wing. No, that's absurd. I'm there. I'm anti left. I'm certainly no right winger, you know, that's just a dumb jump into this binarism that doesn't obtain. You know, it just. Doesn't and. People on the right, I mean, they're no brighter than. Other people, shall we say, and. You know, so that that's not surprising, I guess. You know, in celebrity culture. People try to grab onto anything and you know, he was pretty. Anti left, that's for sure. Kazinski was and. You know, and I and I hate to say this, but I think also. As his life went on, some of the not so bright parts of that came out too, and I'm talking about now. I'm maybe a little off the subject, but he was not anti civilization.

Caller #1: Yeah. No, definitely. You know, I there was a reading of his work again on there's this, you know, Twitter spaces. You can have these gatherings online and people did a full reading of the work with about 100 people listening to the whole, his whole so-called manifesto, as you said. And it was striking how he is he doesn't really have a precise thing that he wants to go back to. You know, he talks about industrial. But he doesn't. He doesn't use terminology about civilization, and so I think it's true that his criticism is not very far, and that's why I think he gets confused in trying to resurrect this political revolution. You know, he's very strategic in this. You know, cadres that he wants to advance, but without a coherent plan, I think it kind of falls flat. Because he doesn't get into the fundamental technological problem as much as he should.

Zerzan: Right, I totally agree. And just strategically, I mean it’s very instrumental and. You know, it's not very cool politically. I mean, Derrick Jensen comes to mind along with the same lines. He doesn't know much political history, so he grabs puts in anything he can think of and some of that is straight up backward. Its authoritarian. Vanguard is kind of stuff. And, you know, it's kind of embarrassing that would be. Anybody's model of liberation, but he doesn't mind because he's only thinking about technology. Only think about the way technology does its work, and so anything that you know is handy. Maybe he just uses it without, you know, without much background in.

Caller #1: It in terms of strategy and kind of the politics of the future. Have you been getting calls from the press about his death that any, I mean, I'm curious. Because you know, if if Kaczynski, if people sort of accept a lot of Kaczynski's press premises, that's what people are saying. But they don't agree with his strategy. You would think there would be more discussion of what the strategy. Should be. You know what I mean, people you know a lot. I keep hearing people say, well, he was right, but he shouldn't have killed people. But they never have any solutions themselves.

Zerzan: Was really curious. I was kind of expecting a bunch of media stuff, but there wasn't any to me. Anyway, there wasn't any. I didn't get any. Emails or calls about it and you know, yeah. And some people said, well, you got to be ready for the media nonsense and everything. But you know, maybe what's worse is there wasn't any. I mean, not that so wonderful to be. Doing the media stuff all the time, but no, it's like.

Caller #1: Right. As a cultural moment, yeah, they weren't prepared. They don't. They're not prepared. The mainstream to even have a discussion of what he meant. Well, it's.

Zerzan: Right. Right. That's, that's disappointing that don't get to bring it up at all. It's just a one day wonder kind of a thing. Well, it's not. It's still conceivable there will be something, but. I haven't seen anything yet.

Caller #1: Well, and it's also interesting because as I said, I think it's occurring over this. What's about to be a backlash against this artificial. I think you're for the first time seeing it's not very defined yet, but you're seeing this grassroots anger about what artificial intelligence is going to mean for people's lives.

Zerzan: Oh, I think you're so right. And that was another somebody I was in touch with said what a juxtaposition in the business section. You got all the latest stuff on the onslaught of chat, chat bots and all the AI stuff and. All the news and claims and everything. And then you turn the page and there is the critique of technology, wouldn't they wouldn't occur to somebody to join the two like like well, was he right? I mean, what? What did he have to say about this? And does it bear on this juggernaut of now?

Caller #1: Right.

Zerzan: AI is doing everything.

Caller #1: So they, yeah, they refused to consider his legacy. That's what I've noticed and they want to. That's why I think the cultural battle is important because some people, what I was hearing a lot is people trying to turn him into a freak. You know, they're trying to say that he was taught, you know, MK Ultra. You know, there's conspiracy theories about that, that he was beaten as a child, that he was transsexual, if you can believe it, even that weird right wing political thing is getting into him. So you know they are trying to just turn him into. A freak so. People don't consider his, you know, righteous anger.

Zerzan: Yeah, well, that's true from the very beginning in the 90s, that's what they were doing. All of these different variations on the same theme that he was just twisted and. You know, he he was kept from his parents as a tiny infant. And so then he was warped for the rest of his life, ignoring the whole thrust of his arguments in in the so-called manifesto. But yeah, and then now they dust that off, you know, and just and the worst of the mainstream stuff. Is well, he terrorized America. He murdered all these innocent people. I mean, just the most gross. Stuff you know and when I was getting that question back in those days and they wanted they wanted anarchist to say, oh, I'm delighted that people send bombs in the mail. What a great idea, I said. No, I don't endorse, endorse that at all. But are those people so innocent? That got his wraths think about that, maybe.

Caller #1: Right. And then that's like the word Churchill argument after 911, you know, similar people sort of freaked out over this. People don't allow for systemic criticism, as you say anymore.

Zerzan: Right, right, right.

Caller #1: Like, it's very dangerous.

Zerzan: Yeah, maybe, maybe less and less, but I think you're right too to say that there's this backlash. Which is fairly obvious. You know, there are people that they don't, they don't only fear the latest stuff, but they hate. It I mean you know.

Caller #1: And they're willing to act, you know, I mean, you know, there's the writers strike as well. You have the writer strike, which is partially about AI. You have the in Hollywood. You've got the AI artist and an uproar. I think you'll have all these programmers too. You know who are going to who are losing their jobs.

Zerzan: Sure, music, folks.

Caller #1: Music, yeah.

Zerzan: Novelist name, you know, you name it.

Caller #1: Novelists, yeah. And then they're saying all these people, you know, imagine all these kids who are in school for 10 years to study, you know, translation and or, you know, some kind of English, you know, a lot of these people, just their lives are just. Taken away from them with this. So anyway, but anyway it's been I'm sure I'm anxious to hear more. Of your thoughts about Kaczynski? I think it's a cultural moment and that's always. What I've always loved about your work at. Least is that it? Is trying to help people envision how to move forward and stories and the culture is important for that. I think Ted was a part of people's lives, you know, even if they disagree with him politically.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll put thanks for calling, Ted.

Caller #1: Thank you. Thank you.

Zerzan: Todd, I'm sorry. Take care. Bye.

Zerzan: Well, I don't. Know if I have much more to say about. About Ted Kaczynski, but feel free to call about it and we'll see as we proceed. You know, one big story. Of interest, these four kids that were found in the jungle of southern Colombia after 40 days, a big gun. You know, stories like that. The child falls into. Well, they can't get him out. And it goes on and on and on. Or the minors or whatever. But anyway. The point? This, and it wasn't totally lost on people, I don't think. But they were fine. They were indigenous, get it? They were at home in nature, not cut off from it, and conditioned to fear it, I got a really interesting. Message from somebody out of the country. Someone I know named Ernesto let me quote a little bit from that. He says of course, the show of the media has already started and they branded the jungle as quote, dangerous, hostile, malignant. Being very curious, because those same media and other press sections. Invite the protection of the Amazon jungle. Contradiction or intentional ill will. The surviving children who are found are indigenous in their vital traditional training. Allow them not to feel like strangers in the jungle, which would generate an urgent question for all rational education systems. Do we have to prepare people to live on Earth? We are on or continued training the spurious stem skills to go to Mars. Anyway, Ernesto. He did very well, I think. Yeah, it's like it reminds me of that big tsunami at the end of 2004. And the fact that non domesticated. Beings, human and non human, survived. Quite nicely. All of the deaths were domesticated people or other domesticated species. Straight up, you know, as simple as that. Well, another piece of the collapse was revealed. During the week, I would say early Sunday morning, the tanker truck. In Northeast Philadelphia, Industrial section of the I-95 Freeway. Yeah, this burned up. Quite brightly and cause the stretch of the freeway to collapse. The I-95 is a major East Coast freeway. It'll be closed for months. More facets of the general collapse. And let's see. I don't know if I'll get to all this stuff, but anyway, the we're all ready in fire season. All this stuff about fires in Canada impacting especially the northeastern part of the US. Rising heat could make orange skies ordinary front page piece in the New York Times on June 10th. Quote a greater likelihood of extremes, sometimes catastrophic weather all over the world. That's a quote. In Puerto Rico last week. Heat index 125 degrees. And in the LA Times today. An article called off the charts or part of it said off the charts the North Atlantic Ocean. Is a full 2 degrees warmer than it was 40 years ago. And yes, El Nino is just starting up now, which will make that worse. Thousands of dead fish washed up on Texas Gulf Shores. Another case of hypoxia. A dead zone, little or no oxygen. Is the Gulf of Mexico becoming a Dead Sea while part of it is already? And more and more. Race horses sacrifice to the spectator, sport of horse racing. Belmont Park, for example. Most lately. Well, let's see. I hope we hear from Artemis. Because I want to hear more about his new scene issue issue #1. Is about to come out and really looking forward to that. You know these perspectives that there's so many ways of changing the subject or avoiding the subject or just drowning it out. For instance today. All Trump, all the time you could sit there and stare at TV. You could see him leaving his resort to go to a. To his plane and then a motorcade just endless, endless trivia. And you do have a caller here, I think. And you know all about the big Danger Republic is hanging by a thread. Such a threat. Well, there was nothing nobody showed up. Virtually nobody showed up and supported Trump in Miami. Just like. Two months ago in New York, that's kind of a joke anyway.

Carl: Somebody called Artemis.

Zerzan: Oh, I think I've heard the name. Hello there. Hi there.

Artemis: Hey, how are you?

Zerzan: Good. Good. Hoping you'd call.

Artemis: Yeah, I was. I was thinking I was going to wait for the music break because we're about that time, but then. you know, you said my name, so here I am.

Zerzan: Good, good.

Artemis: So first thing before I talked about the scene, I got two things I want to touch on real quick. First thing, of course, is about Ted, and this popped up is that apparently there's reports that he actually he might have killed himself in his cell. And even the Wikipedia page refers to it as his cause of death as suicide.

Zerzan: Well, you know, maybe that's hard to sort out if you if you're terminally, you could check out and you're you know it’s suicide, but it's also you're at the end of the end of your.

Caller #1: And you know.

Zerzan: Rope anyway, I mean. In a sense, it's, you know, hard to distinguish, I suppose.

Artemis: And I had some people say, oh, I can't imagine him doing that. But from my understanding, and it could be wrong is that when he was first incarcerated, maybe during trial, he might have tried to kill himself. I can't remember if that's true or not, but I was like, well, I mean, you already tried once. I mean and. Then two and two years, basically with terminal. Cancer. I mean, come on.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah.

Artemis: It's not that hard. It's not without it's not beyond the realm of belief. But then I read that I was like, wow, I mean, that's wrong because I know some people were writing him and he just stopped when his health got so bad, you know? And that's his contact with the outside world, that it's.

Zerzan: And he did tell at least one person that he wouldn't be around much longer to go forth, you know, to to.

Artemis: I don't put. It past them.

Zerzan: Push on with things he did in fact try to kill himself. Back in the very end of 97 early 1998, when he found out. I was actually the one who told him that his lawyers were lying to him, had been for months. You know, the insanity defense. Everybody knew that's what they were pursuing, but he wasn't in the courtroom when they did that. So he he was.

Artemis: Right.

Zerzan: Maybe you didn't really wanna know. I, you know, I wouldn't know, but. Yeah, he tried to hang himself that night because that was the very last thing he wanted is to be portrayed as. Obviously so anyway.

Artemis: Yeah, yeah. And then the second thing before the disease, because I don't want to make this all about me is I was checking anarchy news today and your name popped up in an article I was reading by Felipe Correa attribute pronouncing that wrong. He's a Brazilian academic and anarchist who wrote a historiography. So, like, basically an analysis of history. Or historical write INS called Black Flag read discussing the anarchism and I want to read a very short section of it. He's basically talking about like how historians historically misunderstand or mislabel anarchists. And he says another similarly similarly decontextualized technique used by past historians is listening adherence based on their self identification as anarchists, rather than identifying adherence based on the ideas and practices of which they advanced. Another example is founded in Mickey's study, which, although not absolutist, and his assessment. Includes individualists such as Brown, Benjamin Tucker, or the newspaper Anarchy, a Journal of Desire arms, as well as primitivists such as John Zerzan and newspaper green Anarchy. However, beyond self identifying as anarchists, these authors and publications do not have much in common with the mainline historical anarchist tradition.

Zerzan: Right. Oh, I know. I see. I didn't know about that.

Artemis: And of course he's one of those. He's like a platformist organization organization organization, where he's like, oh, you know, you're not like me. I'm still stuck in the 19th century. Right.

Zerzan: Yeah, we want to steal it.

Artemis: Sorry, you know. As John Moore said, there is the first first wave anarchism and 2nd wave anarchism. You know, kind of divided by the Spanish Civil War and these people can't get out of the fact that. Socialism isn't the answer, and they're stuck in the labor struggle. You know, they have an advanced theory by any regard, so they think anyone who has is not a real anarchist, you know.

Zerzan: It's embarrassing. It's that to be 2023. Hello. Anyway, it's. Yeah, that that's sort of revealing the piece, yeah.

Artemis: So I just, I read that I was like, you know, it's just funny that they think anarchism is this revolutionary, living, breathing system. But then they keep it as the same thing Bakunin was writing, you know, basically, it's just, it's ridiculous. But I guess for the scene, plastic and utero. Journal of anti Save Anarchy Reborn from the compost to wasteland modernity. It is a mouthful. I know. I've had people tell me that, but that's partially kind of the joke, you know, because it was plastic and utero and I was writing the Jason Rogers for those that are familiar. And I was like, how do I make it like identifiable. And that was her suggestion. The Nice long subtact subtitle.

Zerzan: Right.

Artemis: And she was like, you don't have to use the whole thing. And I was like, oh, but that's too good. Like, that's so on. Point just yeah. You know, so the I came, you know? So it's basically Jason's idea for the subtitle, but basically it will come out sometime next week. I'm starting to take orders, but I'm trying to get a PO Box. However the local post office is only open 3 hours a day or something like. That and so I'm trying to get in and I try to use their online portal and it doesn't work. So classic automating things doesn't really work, so I'm waiting on the PO Box. Hopefully sometime this weekend I can get in there. And do that. It's $3 a copy. If those people are interested cuz I can call in again when that is happening. If people want to contact me online, my e-mail is tmg1995@protonmail.com.

Zerzan: Yeah, they should get in touch. We can't. We can't tell people to buy stuff, but we can pass on the information for sure.

Artemis: Yeah, if you're interested in talking to me about anything, you know, that can be that. And I want to say I appreciate, you know, you writing for it because I might have mentioned this before, but when I tell people, oh, I'm putting this scene together, they're like, that's close. Oh, yeah, like John's right before it. Jason Rogers. Steve Kirk. I've written for it, though. Oh, that's so great. How did you do? Did you get? Him to do. That I was like. I asked them. You know. Funny thing that if you treat people like human beings and you. Reach out and talk to. Things happen, but you know, I think it's really cool and some people that have contributed who are first time writers, they're they're, like excited to know, like, Oh my writing will be next to Johns or Steves or whoever, you know.

Zerzan: Oh, it's great. First time people, that's wonderful.

Artemis: Yeah. And I mean that was my goal is that you know, it's nice to have quote UN quote old blood people names that are recognizable because people might be more willing to get it if that's the case. But also getting people who have new ideas. For example, my friend style, who's a primitivist, who lives not far from me, wrote a piece about. Free time and you know there's the whole age-old. Like, do we really have free time? Right. But then connects it to what's called Doom. Scrolling right when people just scroll endlessly on their phones, that's not free time.

Zerzan: Right, right.

Artemis: That's not a hobby. that’s that's not, that's. You know, nuking your brain, you know, you're turning your brain. Off is that is that leisure?

Zerzan: Right, you. You might remember Dax, the student at EU of O here who started the you know, that's that he that was he was saying that too in in his way.

Artemis: Yeah, what he said is, you know, I think I'd start with me. I think about that a lot is his idea of are you making new memories authentic memories or are you? Just sitting around.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah.

Artemis: You know. And Jason Rogers has talked about and I've had to look this up because it's true people have less and less hobbies in it. It just becomes primarily consumption of media. You know, and how dangerous that is, because I think about that, you know, in my students, in my, in my peers. It's like, what do you do for fun? They're like, oh, you know, like, I watched kids. Chuck, I'm like, OK, something other than that and I don't want to be like the old grumpy person, this like, get off your phone, you know?

Zerzan: But yeah, less of everything, though, like less dating.

Artemis: But it's like.

Zerzan: That was some decks talked about too. You know, how I was quite unaware of it. You know that it works out that there's less. Dating, you know, just because you it's all online and the way it works out is that works against it. You know, another anti social thing about social media.

Artemis: Yeah, it it's, it's disheartening, you know, I mean, I work right now with some environmental environmental work during my during the summer, awesome teaching and everyone's like, oh, like if you want to identify this plant, you can use this app I'm like. I could, but I won't. So like, why not? I was like, I just feel like we talk about it or like use a guide or bring someone out that knows it, like, have a conversation about what these plants may be or what this represents. Why do I have? To use an app for it.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah.

Artemis: And that’s actually really much the digitization of like conservation or preservation is actually really off putting because there's no connection. There's more and more mediation even between people working with nature.

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah.

Artemis: You know which. Is you lose an element. People don't seem to get that there's dehumanizing or whatever. It's immediately, you know, purely that's what it is.

Zerzan: And what, what do you get at the end of it is, you know, one reads. About these well, these different languages, more and more isolated groups and their languages are dying. You know, traditional stuff and Oh well, the answer is to digitize everything. Yeah, that's certainly the way that a living language. Stays alive. You know that? No, they can't even. I mean, have you noticed what's you know, what's the fruit of all this kind of? Anyway, yeah, it is. It's kind of madding. But, and, you know, people are pushed in that direction and everything militates to go that way. You know, that's the solution. It's always a technical solution.

Artemis: And I think, you know, Jerry Mander kind of touched on this and I actually. Quote him on the back cover of plastic and utero is his idea of like the artificial is when our entire environment is artificial and everything looks for that lens. All you know is what other people have. Told you.

Artemis: And by people it means like a very. Small click of people. Have designed a new reality. And so when you design language or when you're preserving languages through technology, you're preserving nature, right quote UN quote. Preserving it right. What you're doing is you're looking at it. You're filtering it through the technological lens. Are you preserving something?

Zerzan: Hmm yeah.

Artemis: Is that preservation because all you're doing is transforming it into another medium of control?

Zerzan: Yeah, yeah.

Artemis: Right. And people don't seem to be able to grasp that as it's like, well, it's Democratic is, is technology democratic? I mean, are we at the point where we're going to accept? Cell phones or democratic, you know, even even my non radical liberals should be able to admit that's not true.

Zerzan: Yeah, it’s quite, it's not a secret.

Artemis: Right. So I'll let you go. But for those again, those are interested. I also have a podcast on civilized we just uploaded a new video today in an interview with an indigenous activist Malasa with his organization the First Nations. Union. That's two parts that will come out came out today and then later this week and again, if anyone's interested, you can reach out to. I plan to do a second edition probably sometime late this year, so people are interested in contributing. They can e-mail me or when I get the PO Box you can send me any copies of any writing or artwork or letters. Anything that doesn't go tick, tick, tick will be acceptable for my PO Box.

Zerzan: Good, good. I can jump on #2. Well, thank you for calling super.

Artemis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for. Thank you. For platforming, John, I appreciate it.

Zerzan: Ohh my pleasure.

Artemis: Have a great one.

Zerzan: You too. Well, there was a I guess I could have to sort through the assign the ratings here to find out the most. Telling thing, but one thing today. There was a piece about medicine. Health and the I think the beginning of this pointed out that about 75% of Americans say that their doctor isn't compassionate. So here's the article in today's New York Times AIS helping hand. And the solution? You don't have to guess, you already know the machine is empathetic, compassionate. It's not about the doctors becoming more compassionate. And why aren't they compassionate? Not none of that stuff? No, no. It's AI's helping hand. That's just. It should be a parody, but it's not. It's just straight up. What it is, you know, they're not hiding it and they're celebrating it. And that's just so grotesque. Yeah, well, human. Anyway, the point is obvious. And a little bit more on Apples vision Pro. Much noise about that late last week, there was a piece that was so ideological it just you could cut it with a knife or something. Their aim is to quote shift the way we look at technology and the role it plays in our lives. In other words, it's not a tool. You know this dumb always repeated thing. It's just a tool. Depends on what you do with it. It's neutral. It's just a discrete tool. No, it's not. It's it. Tell you it's ideological. This headset shifts the whole way. We look at it and technology in our lives. You know, straight up it's just it's amazing. It's they're not hiding anything. I don't know yet. In parallel fashion, all the lies continue, even if they're ridiculous. Hello there.

Caller #3: Hello I'm so I’ve been listening to your show for a little while.

Zerzan: Hi, thanks for calling.

Caller #3: Now and then, I figured since last episode was rather barren in terms of calls, I would call in today. But so you were talking a little bit earlier with your first caller about. Youth and youth politics, I guess sort of tangentially, but I was just wondering if you. So I am kind of I am definitely in. I am in the sort of milieu of the anti civilization. Politics, if you will, and I was wondering. If you had any sort of advice or you know what? What young people who are? Sort of coming into that same. Stratosphere of ideas. You know, we should what we could be. Doing to sort of. Build the cultural climate I guess of. Of critique of technology, critique of civilization, and you know, any sort of authors or organizations or actions you would. Point us to.

Zerzan: Well, I think the basic thing is just to speak up about it. It’s very difficult when you feel like. the whole space, the whole oxygen, whatever you call it. As is occupied by the technology and the technological alternative to anything that you want to change, or you know the needs doing. You know lots of ways to do that. I think the literature on the subject is available. You can. You can find that without too much trouble varieties of that. You know. Critiques of technology and starting well, you know, we're just talking about Kaczynski. We had our differences, but I continue to recommend the technological society, the Industrial Society, excuse me and its future. I think it's a very cogent piece and it's not hard to read. It's not an academically written thing and it's kind of modest, actually in its style. So I think it's accessible, you know. I don't know if I'd recommend so much, what he drew on quite a lot. Jackie Wells, the technological society. Which is available in English since the 60s, but it's kind of hard going. It's kind of the abstract French style in English, so it's not. It's not that easy as a. As an intro, I'd say, although it's very worthwhile. But just, you know, just. To try to. If we can raise our voices, if we can interject that into conversations of different kinds and. You know lots of ways to do that. You know, letters to the editor or call in to a show or. Start your own show or your own podcast. You know, that sort of thing. It takes some. You know, you gotta overcome a certain amount of inertia, you know, because we know what we're up against. The whole chorus of all this stuff is. You know it’s so it makes it hard going, but. As as Collins have said, there is something going on I think in terms of antipathy that's there and can be tapped into and you know. Encouraged so. Yeah, that's a very general. Thing David. You know, I think it's just a matter of trying to do it. And you know then when you do it, then you can maybe more at ease doing it and better at doing it. And you know, just find out what happens.

Caller #3: Yeah. Thank you. I guess that's kind of all I had to call in for today. I just want to say thank you to for, you know, putting on this show. It's a great resource to have out there and thanks to Artemis and the other people who call into the show regularly and have their own stuff that they put out, it’s really it's, it's good to have that. Stuff out there.

Zerzan: Great to hear from you, Nico. Thanks for calling. Well, I was just mentioning some of the more recent claims. I don't know what more to say about them. They speak. They speak for themselves. Here's something from. Well, it's piece in the New York Times. This past Saturday, June 10th. It's called students learn the Abcs of AI. Well, it doesn't tell you too much. Well, but what it's about is. This is promoting quote, a new kind of literacy. When you push a button in the chat bot does it for you. I mean, how is that literate? I mean, the whole question of literacy and numeracy and all that. Quite interesting. In its own right, but. You know just. To pause for a minute on that level of. Whether it's. Literate or illiterate? I think it's kind of obvious which one it is. And here was a piece of. About classical music composition and something new, at least I think it's new called Rave Real Time Audio variational auto encoder. That's a mouthful. AI input into classical music is what this is all about. This points out something kind of. Pedestrian, I guess, but maybe it's worth quoting. At the end of the piece, this is in the Sunday New York Times. Two days ago. It is almost impossible to create something computationally powerful without the assistance of a huge technologically advanced institute or corporation. Yeah, that’s kind of obvious, but kind of gives it away too, isn't it? It really does that, I mean. That's what you're buying into. That's what it's really about. Bottom line, a huge technologically advanced institute institution or corporation. Or civilization. Yeah, maybe an obvious point, but interesting that it comes out. And uh, let's see the verge. On Friday, at a piece about a. An indie book cover contest. Sci-fi and fantasy department type books. Well, it killed off the contest because the chat bought 1, so they kind of canceled the whole thing. In fact, the piece is called how AI killed an indie book cover contest. Yeah, you know more of the. Same kind of stuff. And here's some stuff just from today. Just from Tuesday the 13th, this is from Vice. A bit about virtual sports betting. Well, yeah, it's virtual. I mean, this is kind of obvious too, I guess. Like betting on. Horses that aren't real horses, you start to wonder, what are we totally adrift from actual? Reality and let's see this is I think this. Is from wired. Just a little while ago today, as new Beatles record will be out this year. Thanks to AI. This is this isn't really a chatbot creation. I mean it isn't just cooked up from a AI machine learning, but. But it's sort of that it's apparently. They've got some. Kind of unusable stuff from John Lennon, his voice. It's being remastered by artificial intelligence. And I don't know, it's not. It isn't the most horrible example I guess, but Paul McCartney said that it's scary, but exciting because it's the future. Well, the future or what? I mean, if they're going to. Rescue some stuff that otherwise we wouldn't get to hear, OK. You know, it's hard to think.

Carl: It's not, he also said. We never finished that song because George Harrison didn't like it and The Beatles was a democracy.

Zerzan: Is that right?

Carl: Yes, that's what he said.

Zerzan: Oh, no kidding.

Carl: And I'm like, huh?

Zerzan: Didn't know that. Wow, I didn't catch that part.

Carl: So, like what does George Harrison think about this now?

Zerzan: Wow, that's crazy. Well, this was from wired to day. The CEO of Microsoft at Satya Nadella. Says he can't imagine life without AI. Even if it's the last thing invented, in other words, and it's the end of life. Ohh geez. Well, I've got some. That's some action stuff, but I think I'm going to save this. It might have been good to use it because it's a little bit uplifting. Compared to some of this stuff, but. Here's one more getting back to a little bit more environmental stuff. National Geographic today at a piece about Rome. You know the Eternal city. Well, it may not be eternal after all. It's pretty vulnerable in the industrial era, subject to rising sea and flooding. Wasn't built for what's under way now. It's going to sink if techno industrial reality perseveres. See even Rome. Yeah, man, I don't really have time for some of this. More heartening political stuff, but Kathy will be here next week. To Co host this show, we'll get into stuff like that. And so yeah. Really appreciate the three calls tonight. Stay tuned for transcendent phase and. Did you want to?

Zerzan: Go out with that.

Carl: OK, it's all.

Zerzan: Yeah, that would be good.

Carl: It's all cued up.

Zerzan: Oh, cool. Take care out there.

Carl: It was queued up. It went to sleep.

06-06-2023

[audio]

Death of a friend. Fires, train derailments, apt. collapses. Lonely reality,wages of grief. Uninsurable housing, racehorse death culture. Apple's Vision Pro roll-out, as AI combats thought. Cloud data storage centers spread like the stinknet weed that is devouring the Sonoran desert. More from The Contemptuous, LBC announces end. Stay tuned for Human Rewilding in the 21st Century: Why Anthropologists Fail. Action reports.

Speaker 1: The into PK Oregon Ducks baseball and the Super Angels night Gretzky, Walter Lewis, Jack Lazarus here on the list Tuesday afternoon. See you tomorrow for crack smack here. On 88.1.

Speaker 2: You've been listening to quack smack on kW VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at KWVA radio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW VA. Sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 3: Well, good evening. You're listening to K WVU, gene, it is.

Speaker 4: Time for anarchy. Radio John and I are in the studio. The number is 5413. 4606. 4/5.

Speaker 3: And with music from Dan Hicks and his hot licks.

Speaker 5: And I've talked to Dad. They say pride, but it's only. I've even got mad now. We must face it. You give. Me a pain.

Speaker 6: I cannot miss you when you won't go away.

Speaker 5: But you won't listen. How can I miss you? And you won't go away. You're never ending presence. Really cramps my style. I dream.

Speaker 6: That it won't.

Speaker 5: Must be the same. First I was attracted. Have you ever heard of the hard to get?

Speaker 6: You always dance.

Speaker 5: How can I? Miss, you and you. Won't go away. I mean it too.

Speaker 7: Anarchy Radio just two weeks from summer solstice, creeping up on US longest day of the year. We had kind of a memorable weekend. I'm trying to refocus from that. Scattering of the ashes of a friend of mine of 40 years. Yeah, he had a breakdown about three years ago and couldn't work, and he was the mainstay. Of his older sister, who is increasingly stricken with dementia. So he was getting to the end of his rope. Facing homelessness. Took his own life. It was a good get together out at the rural. Cemetery up by Crowe, Lorraine. Somewhere southwest to here and. My daughter and her mother visited from California. They were friends of James as well, so it's special to get to see them. Alice continues to recover, almost ready to kick the. Walker, she no longer needs oxygen. She couldn't quite make it out to the scattering of the ashes. It's. It's kind of a hilly. Place out there. But we got together later. OK, let's just jump right on in. And as Carl said, it's 541-346-0645. Well, the big fires in Canada. As global overheating starts to climb further north versus the Big Alberta fires and now? On the other side of. So-called Canada Nova Scotia. Major fires making for some pretty horrible air quality. New York City now has some of the worst air in the world. Because of all the smoke. Trained enrollments in the news, the one in Minnesota in the middle of the week, and of course that was nothing compared to. The one in I3 train collision. Almost 300 dead, well over 1000 injured. There's your industrial desk, and it was a tech failure. The electronic signal system. And wow. Millions of vehicles. In the US. Being recalled, Ford Broncos Mercedes. Then fast and at least one other. Yeah, actually millions at any given time. It just seems like that's. That ain't working. And then you got your apartment building collapses, especially the one in Iowa. Also one in Connecticut. During the past week. And as this just sticks into the consciousness, I think at least. The media. Keeps plugging on it. What the surgeon general referred to, he wasn't the only one, but how the US is 1 lonely country. More than half of Americans are chronically lonely. There's just an endless string of stories about that. And let's see. Also last week from England News and observer, that's the publication I wasn't aware of, but. Thanks to RC I get this story about how an epidemic of loneliness is growing. And the vaccine for that is social connections. Yeah, whatever happened to that? It wasn't brought about by social media. In fact, obviously it isn't. Being brought about. And it's very closely, intimately conjoined with. Physiological health. Health crisis. And relatedly. In at Futurity, this was last Friday the 2nd. The University of Arizona study. In the journal Psychosomatic Medicine. How grief can cause a marked increase in blood pressure? Death of a loved one, for example, can elevate the systolic blood pressure. Leading to major cardiac risk. Can cause your heart to fail. Well, you know, there's some everyday life failures that are becoming. Just part of the mosaic of the whole. Thing in terms of the environment there was. The story yesterday, more than one actually, but how Allstate and State Farm? Big insurance companies no longer insuring homes in California. And apparently Florida has lost most. Coverage most companies. Yeah, it was a story in the New York Times setting quote, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure. Wildfires, for example. But. Yeah, there's a nice term, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure. Yeah, I'm part of the overall catastrophe. As we know. And just, you know, one more thing it's. This is not brand new news either, but in the past week I think it was just two days ago, three days ago at Churchill Downs in Kentucky. America's most famous horse racing track, I believe. Closed due to the deaths of 12 race horses in a month. Horse races. Yeah, this is not just. Churchill Downs but race tracks in California. Yeah, lots of deaths. The apotheosis of domestication. You know you breed these. Creatures to run the fastest be the lightest bones or the thinnest, and so forth. I mean it's just. Designed. It's engineered to fail. And as they with further domestication, even more deaths just to ridiculous carnage. Of these animals. So humans can watch them run around a track. Well, they may die, but you know you don't really get to see that very much. They just. Take care of that quickly. But there is a kind of if you will. Non domestication story, a kind of primitive voice story. In Metro, which is an outlet in England. This is back on the May on May 14th, but thanks to our CI saw just a couple of days ago. About a man. Who has used leaves instead of toilet paper for the past five years and loves it. This is great. Robin Greenfield by name. You know, he points out, it's free, non polluting. It's a healthy alternative. You don't have no deforestation because of it. He's got his favorite leaves. I'm sure not a belief is. Is the best for that, but yeah, amazing. Thank you, Richard. You know what we're like. More music, more serious music too. Part of the general motif, the general awareness is it. There's a this was announced last Thursday on Earth. By the composer Julia Wolfe. It's an orchestral work, an oratorio. In its structure, it's. It certainly has to do with the urgency. Of the climate crisis and there's, yeah, there's some. Very good new stuff along those lines. From high country news. News about stink net. Also known as Globe chamomile. Little chamomile doesn't sound too bad. Well. It's taken over much of the Sonoran Desert. Arizona, Northern Mexico, Nevada. Yeah, it is a smelly irritant weed. I guess you'd have to say which wipes out other plants. And the erratic weather. Has pushed this. This is really. Yeah, just kind of rapidly, it's it's been around. A bit, but it hasn't become a big old scourge like it's going on. Well, we're just racing through stuff, so I do hope that somebody might pick. Up the phone.

Speaker 4: What's that number?

Speaker 7: Oh, that number is 541-346-0645.

Speaker 4: Maybe somebody will call 541-346-0645.

Speaker 7: You're checking the line there, huh?

Speaker 4: Yes, I'm checking 541-346-0645 to see if. Anybody's calling.

Speaker 7: They might remember that. Well, on to some more of the more political news. Some of the Action News, too. There is there's a new. Book called Caruso Bro El Macho. Also known as running on emptiness, one of my earlier books. From Walden additions. In Buenos Aires. Yeah, this just came out in Argentina. Very happy to learn about that. And don't forget, by the way my. Newest connection collection. It was last year, but when we are human. Hope you didn't miss that. Well, other media kind of stuff, I guess the television and film writers strike has apparently been settled. And meanwhile, actors and reporters. Are either on strike or preparing to strike before the month is out. Hmm, here's an interesting overview. About the whole. Environmental crisis. From social war. I don't really know what social or something or other. The source isn't the point, but. Just a day or two ago makes the point that. It's good to have these various defensive struggles protecting or trying to protect. Particular places. Forests and so on and but points out the kind of obvious thing that. It's everywhere, so there will have to be some kind of a. Response and answer to. The wider thing, not just the defensive. Necessary struggles in that area, but it will require expropriation not only of the oil fields and pipelines and refineries in order to dismantle them. But of the industrial economy. Which they feed and upon which they depend. So far, so good. Then then it goes on to say it will require the demolition of capitalist social relations, that is to say, total social transformation through social revolution. You know, I get, I get back to the same. Old point. So socialist social relations would be fine with answer the question. You know it's it's a little odd because in the sentence before that. Refers to. You know oil fields, pipelines and refineries to dismantle them. Why don't you say that? More pointedly? I mean, why don't you point to the actual structure of things, not just the political? Superstructure, if you will. I mean it's just. This is from the Brooklyn Rail. The the typical leftist confusion if, or maybe it's a deliberate confusion, they. They don't want to. Be anywhere near to primitivism, yet they're talking about dismantling all this stuff. In one breath, I mean I I don't. I don't really get it. Are they just? They just sort of hang on to this. Oh, if only it was just capitalism. That's what it is that we need socialism. I. Mean, come on. When are you going to get the? Is the penny going to drop? Well, it was issued during the week. Another communique from the contemptuous. Which is fine stuff anti leftist, to be sure. You know, it's another tirade. Sort of repetitious though kind and non non specific. And Artemis responded to the first ones of the communique, #1. In a very thoughtful way and. You know, also agreeing with the general thing, but. You know might be. Maybe better to also flush this out a little bit. Like who exactly are you talking about? Which formations? You know Antifa or just who or how does that work or something? I mean, mostly it's just. Well placed insults about creeping leftism. And now it's very. And very important to be aware of this. I mean to check that. So more power to them or anti power if you like. And I think it was yesterday. Came the announcement. Little black card. We'll call it quits at the end of. This year, no more. Book production. No more distribution. They're going to wind that up. It really was Aragorn's baby. He started it and I guess he was the. The motive force? With a number of other people, including interns. So I they didn't really point out the whole picture, except that it's been kind of going downhill. For a while. You know, it seems to be. Closely connected to. Anarchistnews.org. So I wonder if that's going to maintain. I mean, it's a different deal. It's it's the news service. And feedback kind of stuff. And they have the topic of the week, which always kind of like every week a different topic, like just a novelty, just a little quickie. Not a lot of depth, it seems like and you know the response is to the end of LBC. Kind of sad. I mean a lot of them are like, good riddance or just kind of dumb. Stuff like that. And I mean a number of them. I did look through that. You know, gave them credit for. Publishing a lot of books that wouldn't have been published elsewhere. But a lot of this, just petty little cracks, you know little. Jabs and. People that probably never read any of those books. But it's sad to see that coming to an end. Maybe they're holding out hope that somebody will take it over. Somebody else will take it over. But. It didn't sound like it really. Well, there was a Southern poverty law. What is it, Council or? Anyway, SPLC. They've been around a long time. They issued a report that came out today. Sounding the toxin about hate, hate speech, hate activities, hate groups. And like other liberals, just really. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this doesn't exist. It does. But I mean, there's a there's also a way to. You know, make that not only the sole focus, but to over exaggerate it. I'm waiting for. One of these, whatever it is, anti drag show. These neo Nazis that pull that kind of crap all the. Time I'm waiting for one of those things to succeed. And it's going down. You never see that in other words. How giant is this threat? You know the systems hanging by a thread or something. For example, it's a Sacramento Sacramento City Council meeting on May 23rd. Five Neo Nazis tried to disrupt it. They were shouted down and kicked out. So yeah, what if what if giant danger? I mean, these few creeps just, you know, got booted out of there? And of course as. Hundreds of these January 6, 2021 people will go to prison every day. Where is this gigantic threat, I mean? You know for certain there's anti-gay anti trans racist anti-Semitic. Crap out there for sure, but. It's sort of fails all the time too. I mean, you know, let's get straight on that. Well, here's something worth waiting for. And I don't know just how soon this will be available. The author is. Has just left for a month in Africa. And he has circulated a draft. Of a book called Human Rewilding in the 21st century, why anthropologists fail? James V Morgan. And it takes apart not only. The dawn of everything by Graber and windrow. But one. Fairly important journal article that's about to appear, which kind of takes up the same thread in defense of civilization and progress and. You know from a generally leftist point of view and. You know, these are the avatars of civilization, for sure. They're defending it. And this piece is so well done, it just it just answers all these jabs and put downs and. A bunch of false statements about rewilding. How it's actually racist to be talking about that stuff and how. What do 100 gatherers have to do with anything? That sort of stuff? Well, we do know that pre history is haunting the culture as it fails so grandly. Where do you look for maybe a little help. With that. And anyway, James V Morgan, this is. So well done. I hope this draft is. Realize I don't know how you would perfect it. Haven't had. The total time to read every word of it, but I've gone through it and I'm so impressed. So I await that I think the. Believe he's got a plan. Foreseeing that published in the near future, human rewilding in the 21st century, why anthropologists fail. There are some anthropologists who have. Really helped. With the whole critique. Some of them are no longer around. And some of these newer lefty characters are. Are much afraid of that, the implications of. Of looking at Origins and seeing civilization for the absolute ruin that it's turning out to be. Yeah, it's a, it's kind of a pitiful political effort on the part of some of these people that Morgan deals with extremely well. He doesn't resort to name calling or. In your windows like some of these, like some of his opponents do, you might say. Excuse me a SEC. So that's a very positive thing to look forward to. Let's see. Is it got a few things here. In Patra, Greece on May 30th there were sledgehammer attacks on Alpha Bank and Piraeus Bank. This is in the area of Athens, more or less. ATM machine on a Piraeus Piraeus bank to the Port of Athens, that is. And another alpha bank in the area in solidarity with hunger striker Yannis Michaelis. Hi Michael, Web, Yannis, Michael Lee leitis. Probably not much better than the first half of it. And in Gunda ricor. Northeast France. Also on May 30th, a new police station was burned. Yeah, very, very big. Action there. Back on the 19th of May in Munich. 2 Eagles new electric vehicles. Were burned at a charging station. To the tune of €100,000 worth. End of Graffito was left no HKW. That is some kind of a human resources company, I. I did not see an explanation of the what is the connection there but. But a major action. And let's see. I'm jumping around date wise, but on the on May 31st. After the verdict. Lena E just not giving out her last name, but Lena E was convicted of attacking Neo Nazis. And given a lengthy prison sentence. Well, after the verdict there was some blowback on Wednesday, May 31st. About 800 people took part in a demo in Leipzig, according to police. Some tried to break through police lines. Throwing bottles, stones, fireworks at cops. A laser was also pointed at a police helicopter. There was a similar protest by an estimated 800. In the northwestern city of Bremen. And the other end of the country from Leipzig. And 1200 people demonstrated in Hamburg, where police said officers had bottles and fireworks thrown at them. In Berlin. Boy, what's up with Berlin? An estimated 450 people took part in a largely peaceful protest. Well, Berlin not leading their way there. And this. Saturday the 3rd past weekend here Mohawk Nation News. Reported that near northeast Quebec and Labrador, these are course colonial names. The traditional Innu people INNU. Are evicting logging companies from their lands. And canceling a modern treaty in the making. This is Natasha Anon, unseeded territory. Actually, bigger than France in size, the big chunk in. In Northeastern Canada or eastern Canada? Well, I think the time for a music break. Yeah, we'll be back shortly.

Speaker 6: I will say demon and friend of mine. Ego building. I gotta walk up the stairs.

Speaker 8: Deep blue rock. Good boy, not to say.

Speaker 6: I laid my.

Speaker 8: Head and I.

Speaker 6: Can't tell which down in her life.

Speaker 8: A couple of slices. And there I was, lying. Listen, get your buyer. Well, as I can recall. Well, my Simon body to recollect. The girl had told us that she. Was a niece and. Walt Whitman, but not which niece? And it takes a knife and a girl and a pocket. This kind a long, long time to find its way back.

Speaker 6: That's not all night. Friends of mine say we gonna build it.

Speaker 8: Watch out.

Speaker 6: What this is? Had not been to girls.

Speaker 5: Leave it out.

Speaker 8: A big.

Speaker 6: Living room.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 7: Billy Bragg? Yes, indeed. It's been noticed for a little while that the. Interest in the Metaverse, which of course aims at all immersive digital or virtual reality, is faded. Giving ground to. Two AI you know, but it was fading before the whole chat bot thing started up. About six months ago. Despite investments by Apple, for example. That's been overtaken by AI developments. This just kind of broke over the weekend and you can check this out at The Verge if you're that interested in. Applebee's vision Pro this is. In effective VR headset, much publicity and you can buy one for only three only $3500. I'm not advising anyone to do that, but truly a ticket to nowhere. I think this is just about a perfect metaphor for flight from reality. Yeah, just strap that on and just imagine that everything's fine. Or you don't want to hear about it anyway if. It isn't fine. Yeah, just nobody knows whether this is going to fly. The VR stuff, as I just said, it's kind of faded. Not a lot of fervor behind that or investments, but. This is 1 big stab added by Apple. I mean they. Try to go forward on all fronts. With the substitute for actual. Maima has a new book, bio Urbanism Cities as nature. I'm not kidding. Bio urbanism cities as nature by Adrian McGregor. Yeah. Nature novel nature. Yeah, that's been kicked around a little bit before. It's really an ecosystem. Yeah, it's, but. It's all about technology. And nothing but. Its relationship to nature is only a. Energetically -1. I mean, you don't even have to know much beyond the name. You you don't even have to guess. And what they're trying? To peddle. Calling it bio or eco or something like that. Well, as the University of Oregon professor lives around the corner. And ran into him yesterday. Well, he was just pretty, uh. Pretty down. Pretty bewildered, even more than usual. By the AI onslaught, and he was saying it's not so much chat bot cheating among students as just to. A deeper, more general problem. With thinking that quaint. He said he's he's a radical kind of guy, he said. Forget dialectics. You know. He said. I've never seen such zombie machine like students. And it's fairly shocked, I mean, not that he's. You know a babe in the woods about these things and all, but they don't know what to do or even what to. Suggests or, you know, put on the table, it's. It's bumming him out more and more of that, that just fed into the already ailing. Halls of academe. And here's a piece. Again, thank you, Darcy. A BBC story called Eco Disaster waiting to happen. This is just this past Sunday. From BC and the point is and this is nothing hidden their secret actually, but. There are billions of solar panels now. I think I think they said 2.5 billion. Possibly more, and they have an average of about 25 year lifespan. Because there's more of these every day. And I think if I know I've mentioned this before, that in a one of the latter issues of green anarchy magazine. Our friend and editor fire. Wrote an in-depth piece about how toxic it is to manufacture solar panels. And how it's more toxic to deal with them after they burn out. So eco disaster waiting to happen. You can probably take away the question mark. Yeah. How are you going to recycle that? I mean, that's the same. That's the magic word like it is with plastics, although now it's common knowledge. The the recycling A they don't know how to do it with plastics because there are million kinds of plastics. Plastic and. It's very often makes it worse when they try to recycle. Of course you try to recycle, but. Man scary data about. What that actually means? When they try to do it. Well, the actor Rowan Atkinson, wasn't he? Black adder? Yes, yes. I love that. Very great comedic actor. He's done a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 4: I'm so glad you. Said Blackadder and not Mr. Bean.

Speaker 7: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, no comparison. Mr. bean. Yeah, that wasn't too great. Anyway, it turns out that this actor has an engineering degree. I had no idea and he commented about the. The E car production electric cars. He said he feels duped because producing them is 70% more greenhouse emissions. Then a regular gasoline powered. Alright, largely due to the lithium battery production part of it. Yeah, I don't know if he was thinking that was going to be a dandy idea, or maybe he knew all along, but. He had to make his. Feelings felt about that, and I guess that's news because he's well known. And good for him for pointing it out. Well, Speaking of teachers, there was a piece late last week. In the guardian. Called I'm a teacher and This is why I'm not giving my child a smart phone yet. Too bad the yet is there, but anyway. You know, and this is about the endless studies that show detrimental effects of Internet. Use, especially at young ages. And that the more time. Children. Or maybe everybody, I guess, spends on online. The more loneliness they feel. In particular, that's the. It's the emotion. Great. Thanks to Richard for. It's been a little I've been a little distracted just lately with. Dealing with a few things in. Very grateful to. My friend Richard in the UK. Also in the Guardian on the same day, June 2nd. Philip Moore. Writes in the years since I quit social media, my screen time has fallen. My mood is up. Even my resting heart rate is lower. Philippa Moore. She describes a very healthy shift. That she did. Yeah, there's the positive side of it for sure. Well, I mentioned the tech failure with the horrendous 3 train collision in eastern India. This is certainly not. A fatal kind of thing like that, but last Thursday. Spirit Airlines app spirit.com. Underwent a big screw up involving huge delays and cancellations. Yeah, another tech fail. Didn't kill anyone, unfortunately. And I love all these augmented reality stories, and in fact, this Apple Vision Pro thing is. They're trying to say it's not exactly VR, it's more like. Additional reality or something like that they try to, they kind of screw around with the terms and with their hustle. There was a piece yesterday about AI powered Photoshop and mid journey. These are. 2 apps which are trying to perfect. Helping things along. The quote is making family photos look better. Of course, that's not the actual family depicted, but it's augmented, right? It's it's just you want to dress it up and. Maybe put a smile here and there or. Something? Why not? You can change reality. With AI. Yeah, more and more. Synthetic and fake and. So on and let's see. Also yesterday. In the news, this is a guardian story about the US, about Prince William County in Virginia. And this is not just about that locale, but it starts with that. How these data centers. The the ones in particular here are storage for cloud Internet. And this particular story has to do with. Just to an enormous number of these. Consuming a lot of energy there. I guess there's somewhat noisy even as well, but. In this case, they're threatening to obliterate historical sites. They're apparently. The number of civil war sites. Especially early on in the civil war. Battles were fought in that area and that's going to be turned into industrial. Data centers. Deal with the cloud to service the cloud. Well, here's a story that I saw just a little bit of a tease, a little. Like a micro promo. For upcoming Oppenheimer movie, you know he's son of as the father of the atomic bomb. In down in New Mexico and in the 40s. And the only thing they used was there was a little quickie line about he, he says. This is kind of sketchy but. It be even sketchier if the Nazis do it. So got to do it right, got to build. The a bomb. And it reminded me of what Jeffrey Hinton, the big VR guy. Who's talking about how scared he is about the onrushing AI? The chat bot and all that. You know, it's just kind of a throwaway line. But there's a hook to it. He says. Oh, you want to stop? Well, the Chinese ain't going to stop. So it's just a variation on the same thing, he said. If I hadn't done it, somebody else would. Oppenheimer, the same thing. Going to have the nuclear weapons or else? Somebody worse will do it. And the point is the technology goes forward. In any case, I mean that's none of that gets in the way. Those are. Those are what is given as. I don't know what you call it. Excuses or well, it's also political reality on one level, right. But the point is nothing stops the advance of technology. Unless you want it to stop, unless you think about it that way as a possibility. And obviously the what is reaped. Is more and more obvious. Uh. All of this stuff. Gets worse, and I've I've seen some of these. Commentaries. Yeah, we thought that the really ultimately scary thing was was atomic weapons well. Maybe even deeper is the scary takeover. By all this high tech stuff of these developments that just going to replace thought as my neighbor is saying. And seeing. But uh. Yeah, you know what? It's what it's all about. And it's increasingly hard to avoid. Seeing it. And maybe that's the silver lining, but I think I've run out of material. May be better equipped next week. Colonel and I will be back next week. Don't know. At this moment, whether Catherine will be on later in the month or not. It wouldn't have been next week anyway, but keep you posted about that. And we've got some miles, Davis. And thanks for listening. Take care.

05-30-2023

[audio]

Memorial Day weekend carnage. Extinctions: much worse than thought. Red Sea coral die-off. Big increase in weight loss surgery for children and teens. Record police killings in past year. AI is feared and unpopular. Anti-tech Chicago Med TV show. e-skin, e-fake media.What's up at Thacker Pass. Anarchist book fairs galore, resistance briefs. Bison rewilding project in Alaska. One call.

Speaker 1: Sports Network. It is not K V8 is on the Oregon Sports Network zavier on Friday at 10 AM you are not able to listen here on TWA, but you are able to listen on the Oregon Sports Network so long from Eugene. This is Griffin vows with Levi Profit and Aiden Hess have a great rest of your day.

Speaker 2: You've been listening to quack smack on kW VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW, a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 0: I don't know.

Speaker 3: Good evening. You're listening to KWVA, Eugene. It is 7:00. Time for anarchy radio. I think we have music from Randy Newman to get us started and we'll put our headphones on and get our minds straight and be with you in just a second. This is called. Last night I had a dream.

Speaker 4: Last night I had a dream. You win it. Now was in it with. The other one that I know. Never one that you know was in my dream. So they're. Are so close. Everybody's scared. You scared me the most. See my head last night. Dream my head last night. Started out in the barnyard sundown. Never one was laughing. Can you tell me what your name? Can you tell me what's your name? I say you know what my name is. Last night I had a dream. You were in it. Now was in it with you. The other one that I know. Never one that you know was in my dreams. Saw vampire my head last night to dream my head last night in my dream. A song goes. Everybody's scared. You scared me the more.

Speaker 6: Hello there. It's May 30th time for anarchy radio. Well, we had. A dandy interview. Last week, that recording last week. Catherine, Evan, and Jamie interviewed Darcia Narvaez. Yeah, whatever happened to the social? I mean, that's kind of the core of. Of her explorations and trying to. Get back to something. Inner books, like restoring the kinship worldview, indigenous voices. 28 precepts for rebalancing life on the planet and. And the more recent one, which is what has been discussed the most, for example by Calvin. Neurobiology and the development of human morality, evolution, culture and wisdom. Some real fine stuff, she. She really put it across well, I think. Last week, so anybody have any? Thoughts on that or further questions or? Anything like that, you can call us at 541-346-0619. OK, well. At least 16 dead and many dozens wounded. In Memorial Day weekend carnage. Shootings. What else is new? And I think it's well, it's a higher number for one thing because. Quite a few of those were critically wounded, and I I don't think that was even. A number that came in before the weekend was over so. But yeah, that's nudist. Can we say about that? Well, you know the 6th grade extinction, that's been a topic for a while. On Monday the 22nd in the journal Biological Reviews. There was a study on extinctions based on a look at more than 70,000 species globally. And it turns out extinction losses quote significantly more alarming. Than previously thought. And it's a pretty big primary thing going on. One of the key environmental news things of the week, I'd say middle of the week. In the Red Sea off of Israel. To the north of Israel. Sea urchin die off is imperiling the famous red coral reef. Which I think gives the Red Sea its name anyway. The sea urchins take care of the algae. Which otherwise kills the coral. Rough weather with that. There's a piece on the. Weekend about. High school kids in New York. And it has to do with stress. I think at base dealing with stress and pressures like that. Anyway, the point is. How many more kids are coming to school high? With the classrooms subsequently in disarray. Getting to be. Quite a presence in that sense. Yeah, all is not well. Anywhere, especially among the youth in a story today. This is just a general ABC News story, alarming increase in the number of children and teens turning to weight loss surgery. Weight loss surgery. I mean, you think? Of you know, maybe it's called morbid obesity among middle-aged people or. That sort of thing. But children and teens. Just part of how. And healthy things are getting. And also in the weekend news that police killings in the past year. At a record high and. Young unarmed black men especially. Among the homicides by the pigs. Yeah, new record. There's so many weird things, some of it's just kind of. And so some of it is telling. I would, I would. Say I'm surfing around television the other day and I've noticing the commercials. I think there are at least two shoe companies. That uh. Shoes that you just step into, you don't have to. You don't have to touch them or bend over. You know that would be too much work. Too much exertion in these in in our days. Made me think of a tune it back in the 60s. There was this weird. Satirical band The Bonzo Dog Doodah Band never heard of that.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard of him.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. Well, they had one send up of. I think they were already doing doing this on intelligent until there's packaging these. Work out things you know and one of them. I remember the line. No one pleasant, bending perfect. And now it's not a satire you just. That would be too unpleasant to bend over and. Put your shoes on. Kind of like those ads for selling your car. You don't have to get up off the couch while you do because you got to go out to the curb and and get a check from the. Car carrier that comes around all you going to punch a few things into your phone. And you're not even interrupting the your the time you spend with the **** tube, it just takes seconds during the commercial. I guess. Something like that. And there you go. No one pleasant bending. Ah, there was a story Sunday. Worries mount about misinformation and science. Allison Snyder and. Yeah, maybe think more about. I wish I could understand this, maybe somebody out there can. Pitching on this conspiracy theory, which is a, you know, an oxymoron, there's no theory, which means analysis to make conspiracy. You know what I'm talking about. And it's just you can't tell. Who's going to succumb to it? It's it's really bizarre. I was just thinking about recent. Acquaintances well, at least encountering them recently. Couple of people I know here in Eugene. One is a kind of a lost soul. He's wandered around the world and. A gentle soul. Kind of. You know, sort of having a hard time fitting in or. What he's all about, anyway. Anyway, I'm not going to use this name, of course, but he comes out with this viciously anti trans thing. Trans has terrorism that that the transgender people are. Somehow trying to take over everything. And pulls everything on everybody else. It's just. Wait a minute. I mean the victim part doesn't even register at all and. This is somebody I thought would wouldn't be. I mean, there's something very aggressive about that and I didn't think that I wouldn't have. Guessed that brand of it would be his. Piece of that pathology. Another person I know here in town that I've known longer. Very good guy. Very stand up guy. Kind of a gentle. Buddhist guy, I think. I think that's he would he would self describe as that. Anti VAX following for cryptocurrency. Just you know. Paranoid about. Many things I would say. Again, that's not somebody that I would. You know, would fit the stereotype to me, although I don't know what the stereotype is. I guess there isn't one. That's kind of my point here. Yeah. Anybody have any thoughts on that? It's. There doesn't seem to be any end. Of it or? Any rhyme or reason to it either? The reason behind it and the. The psychology of it. What have you? I'm just. Not quite getting it. Well, I have also locally it's kind of another local little angle here. Some neighbors and friends across the street just spent three weeks in Greece. And so I was curious. I don't know if they would call themselves anarchists. I think they're quite sympathetic. If they're not anarchist, I've never we've never really gotten into that. They're. You know, neighbors nice people anyway. They found a huge presence. In Athens in particular. They also got down the Creek, which is a kind of a favorite spot of mine in Greece, but. They just they were in Exarchia Square, for example, and same deal I was at once in 22,221 years ago. And it was. I was kind of thinking kind of the heyday of the anarchist scene there in the Exarchia. Cops didn't come around unless there were like six of them, and they would kind of hustle along. They wouldn't. They wouldn't linger. They were. They knew they were not at wanted there and. Anyway, from what they were telling me. Sounds like much the same. One thing that I hadn't heard about is these dogs. Apparently, feral dogs in Athens. Have linked up with the anarchists against the cops. And so there are these murals celebrating these dogs. As kind of. Front line anarcho dogs or something like that, which is. Very cool. So it's. You know, there's really been a lot of repression in the, you know, they're trying to gentrify Exarchia and put in a Subway stop there and you know, just kind of. Undermine the place. But the fight goes on and. It just seemed to them a very strong anarchist presence. Very nice to hear about that. Creeker #4 is out. This is part of the series. I think it. A series of scenes that takes its name, I believe from the Fairy Creek blockade in. So-called British Columbia. All about indigenous resistance, especially to logging of ancestral land. Very thorough stuff. It's just a. You know, first hand kind of stuff about that. I mentioned the oakum and. Out West of Tucson and Odom land. Who was shot 38 times? In the doorway of his home. More on this idea that this guy had evidence. Of collusion between the Border Patrol and one or more cartels, drug cartels. Terms of drugs moving. Across the border. Well, I guess that's one form of border. Patrol on it. When they're not. Policing, harassing. Surveilling. The indigenous people are in general. Yeah, I think that's a fairly big story and hats off to censored news. The Tucson based new service by Brenda Norrell. It's always worth checking out. Well, it seems that the sand Bones Book Club is going to be coming to an end. I guess you'd call him the producer figure. Has been doing it a while. There, there wasn't one lately, and there won't be one in June. The last one will be the end of July. I think that's July 30th. It'll be Fern Thompson. And I think she's going to. Be talking about the couple of years she's spent in this area of Pacific North. Kind of hunting down off the grid. Primitivist types and others doing that. Actually practicing. Trying to be outside of civilization. That should be super. And that will probably be the last one. These are being televised on Community television. Locally here, that's channel 29. I think it's Thursday evening at 7:30. John has made that happen. He's been taping these. There's just a whole lot of anarchist book fairs coming up. This is really the season for it. Late spring, early summer, in fact. I'm going to mention. These have already happened. Glasgow May 27th, Montreal May 27th to the 28th. Hamburg May 27th, Athens. May 28th. And coming up in the Gulf of Toronto. In Italy, southern Italy between the heel and the boot. Of the late June. 1st to the 3rd, Stockholm June 3rd to the 4th, Paris June 3rd. Warsaw and Poland, June 8th to the 11th. Graz, Austria donates to the 10th. And my favorite. The anti civilization Agro Crust Festival in Spain, in Catalonia. Yeah, somewhere near Barcelona, I guess or. Between there and Valencia, maybe I'm guessing, but Catalonia? June 9th to the 11th. Quite an array, maybe more. And probably are in different places. I mean, those are just the ones basically in Europe. Well, one Noah coffin. I've just. I've just heard about this. Ah, he's a prisoner in Texas, Huntsville, TX. And he is behind Mongoose distro. No to industrialization. Yes to green anarchy. Says Noah coffin. And one of the things he's arguing? It's kind of a myth, you know, there's all this propaganda in favor of GMO's and the latest industrial kinds of farming. Well, we have to, we have to so many people, and there's not enough land. Well, he's pointing out. With figures that there's actually a lot of land. Quite a lot of land. That's just kind of you're made to think that we all live in New York City or something where there isn't too much available land, but. On a global basis, there really is a lot. And so that undermines. A lot of that stuff. And of course. He's implying the rewilding the. The move away from domestication. I'm sure. Well, I only have a couple of. Action things. Dusseldorf may the 27th. That was this Saturday. The report. About sabotage actions against the railroad. A series of them in the last four months we have carried out five incendiary attacks against the railway signal cables in the Dusseldorf area. Yeah, main goal was to hinder the commodity traffic. And some of these have been. Pretty effective. Several tracks. Inoperative during the day. All day. And to increase their effort, we tried to synchronize the incendiary attacks with strikes or other sabotage actions against the Railroad Society society we live in is about to engulf the entire planet. The massive transformation of natural ecosystems into dead, dead products. Is not the consequence of a lack of information or immature technologies, but is central mechanism of the system. That brings with it a vortex of war, disease and exploitation. Well, these folks are. Know how to do it and they know how to articulate. That which is really important. Very nice to get that. And here's another line. Sabotaged an electric line. In southeast France. Yeah, this has to do with. A pile on supporting a 225,000 Volt power line. Anti industry anti. Electric line. The power line. And this stopped the Hexal chemical factory. Yeah, seriously injured. Operations there. And this has to do with this. I don't know if I've even mentioned it. Mega basin. In rural France, it's kind of a big. Cisterns that are thing mega size. For industrial farming. The whole scale of it, the whole. Obscenity of it, there's a lot of people that are against it. Pretty much so. But here's a new book just been reading. Northern Paiutes in the Malheur. High desert reckoning in Oregon country. Mahir is right in the center of the state. There's the somewhat famous Malheur Wildlife Refuge, which was. Occupied for a while, what, two years ago by these right wing Yahoos, they seized it because they want more. Cattle raising and more fences and. All that sort of garbage. Yeah. Hunter gatherers right here in Oregon. This is the history. It has a lot to do with the struggles against the US Army. The payouts were high desert hunter gatherers. Yeah, they weren't farming and they didn't have any central authority, small scale communities. In fact, right now. This is not in the book, but. Brendan Murrell at. And censored news. Is doing some ongoing coverage of the Paiute Shoshone prayer blockade at the Paiute Massacre site at Thacker Pass. You know about Thacker pass and the. Proposed lithium mining there. Which is very close to the corner of. Oregon, Idaho, Nevada. High Desert, the Alvord desert down there, you you find yourself in Nevada before you know it. Out there. So the Paiutes and the Shoshones have not always gotten along. Not so bad as some groups, but uh. But now they're pulling together. Yeah, that's kind of a long story, but. Northern Paiutes of the Malheur by David Wilson. Almost forgot that David Wilson. Yeah, quite a piece of scholarship. And it relies a lot on. Living pilots. Well, there is thanks to a good friend of mine in Alaska, there's a huge rewilding project, actually the biggest in North America. It's being planned. It's in the works, introducing free range bison. The goal was big herds of wild bison. And Speaking of how much land there is, which Noah Coffin talked about. There's a huge amount of land in Alaska you're not even. I mean, Alaska is 1/3 the size of the entire US. And some of it isn't very warm at times, but that's changing too as we know, but. This is an enormous deal and I think one thing has to be worked out is. What is the role of indigenous people? Bringing this about. I believe know a few things about uh. Moose, elk, Caribou and so forth. Not to mention Buffalo. So we'll see how that rolls out very large scale. Well, let's see. I think we should maybe try a little music break while you ponder your call to anarchy radio.

Speaker 7: I've been navigating my waves, nothing. Reality of a godless existence, which at this point in my race. By myself. I guess.

Speaker 8: It doesn't matter. Anyway. I don't care about nothing. Doesn't matter because I don't care about nothing.

Speaker 7: I'm not. Your little songs are getting way too literal. *** **** snuggle keeper changed. Get a room without. Hit it all.

Speaker 8: Nothing for you.

Speaker 7: It's alright, it's just a flash. Wound. You said you never saw coming. I'm pretty happy.

Speaker 5: Lying here with you.

Speaker 7: It's pretty good to feel something.

Speaker 6: Hello there, we're back. That was PUP, as Canadian Punkers, we played one track last week, I think. Well, this whole chat bot stuff, the AI thing is really breaking out in various ways. Today. There was a big public statement. 350 public figures, whatever that means, exactly including the CEO of the chatbot GPT company that started all this late last year, a dire warning. AI could change everything, and once again the threat, the fear of human extinction as a possibility. Raised again. Not for the first time, but especially from this guy, Hinton. So we need safety regulations, we need licensing controls, something like that. Ohh OK we got a. Call here. Yeah, we got on. The phone. Oh goody. Hi. Hello there.

Speaker 9: Hey, how you doing?

Speaker 6: Good. How are you?

Speaker 9: I'm doing well, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't planning to call in. But you know, it seems like you you were kind of asking. So here I am. So two things I wanted to respond to. The first ones about Thacker pass. You know that's been going on for a while and you know deep green resistance, our favorite wannabe Maoist group. Has has been. I will put I'll say active in in that event, but in a very problematic way. And this is something I've been I'm not super caught up on, but I've been reading what people are writing I think. It was last year two years ago. There was an indigenous critique of deep green resistance is basically trying to take the limelight from them and like forcing themselves into the public view. And these were indigenous people saying, like, we didn't invite them here and they're, like trying to take control of everything. Which, if anyone, knows anything about deep green resistance that shouldn't come as a surprise. You know, so and then recently I think couple weeks ago met Wilbur, who is another one of the. Cult of personality types in that group did his own, you know, was streaming on his Facebook, talking about himself and how revolutionary he is. And it's just wow, you know, for people that talk about decolonizing, you know, they have no problem just forcing themselves into the limelight, regardless of indigenous opinions.

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 6: Yeah, they're not satisfied with being rather viciously anti trans now. They pull this kind of crap, which is, I mean, they don't even know any history in terms of authoritarian patterns or, you know, that it's just a way. Nasty stuff.

Speaker 9: Right. And then there you have that it's one of the more recent books. It's Derrick Jensen, Lear, Keith and Metz Wilbur Co wrote it and it's one of Lear sections. She even says, you know, in terms of leadership and ideas, young people just need to be quiet because their brains aren't developed enough to have any ideas, which basically means just listen to us.

Speaker 6: The field Marshalls.

Speaker 9: You know, don't talk, right? Right. You know, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we got it covered.

Speaker 9: Right. Yeah, I just, I didn't know if you were aware of that and just you mentioned. Sector Pass and that came to mind.

Speaker 6: I didn't know about that.

Speaker 9: Yeah. And then the second thing, you're. Talking about the. The anti trans transit terrorism. What I find really funny of that, especially people who consider themselves. Let's say radical anti capitalist whatever who are falling into this. What's funny is they don't realize that there are trans people. Then there are corporations trying to exploit trans people, and that's typically what these right wing nut jobs are responding to is they don't realize they're just falling for a culture war. Typical capitalism, and they and they think they're the the free thinkers that they can't see the obvious that, you know, the rainbow shirts, the rainbow beer or whatever it is. The such trans people ask me for that it's corporations appropriating queer identities to sell. And it's a marketing scheme. And they're like, oh, my God, they're trying to document. Children. I was. Well, can you name them or are you going to name a corporation because? Again, these aren't the same thing.

Speaker 6: Right, right. Exactly. You got the wrong target.

Speaker 9: Right, which is for people again, you know Rev com the what is it that Maoist cult led by Bob Avakian, one of their Co leaders, just went to like a university, basically saying we should unite with the right against wokeness. In like anti trans stuff, it's it's insane. Yeah, you know, that's where it slides to is when you start talking anti trans of course. Like leer teeth. You know how quickly she aligns with. Just ending Nell, for example. She was she had another Python interface a couple of weeks or a couple months ago, and she allowed Indiano to platform her. And of course, right, and he knows a horrible fascist, right?

Speaker 6: Oh yeah, well, that doesn't.

Speaker 9: Matter. Yeah, right. Yeah. The interconnect. Yeah. The interconnection of all those things shouldn't be surprising, but people keep falling for it. And I I can't. I can't say why outside of just people who are willfully ignorant about certain things or it's the easy, the easy answer, I guess, is. Oh, it's trans people.

Speaker 6: It's just amazing, I mean. Yeah, well, there aren't so many outlets for. Very clear thinking. Either. I mean, you know, you you get the surface, take on something and then, well, I guess it must be that because you haven't heard from the other people so easily. I guess that's part of it too. It's it's mysterious though, man. I like, you know, I brought up this thing about. So-called conspiracy theory and people I've, you know, have some acquaintance with. I just wouldn't have guessed that they'd that they'd be. Pray for that. You know, I just. It just makes it even more.

Speaker 9: Yeah. And what's interesting is if they are not totally overboard, right, I think some of the best way to handle that is, well, what do you think about the, you know, it's trans people tend to take over the world, say, well, do you believe the right wing fascist idea that Jews are trying to take over the world? And they're like, no. It's like OK. So why do you? Think trans people are trying to do it. Exactly.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Great parallel. Yeah. Does that sound familiar? Like.

Speaker 9: And yeah, but the new bar. Yeah, right.

Speaker 6: In sheer stupidity.

Speaker 9: Right. But if they're too far, then of course there's they're not going to see that. But if they're not. Oh, well, whatever group it is, if it's, you know, because of course it's any the scapegoat, right. It's trans people now, but what will it be 3 years from now when the right realizes that didn't work, you know, cuz they move targets whenever they realize. Their culture war is now winning or it doesn't work. Does most people don't care? I really believe most people aren't transphobic, at least inherently, right in a better in a better way. And so the right will have to develop.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you're right. That's not. That's not automatic at all.

Speaker 9: New hire.

Speaker 6: I think. And they they will just switch to something else because they don't have any. They don't have any core. Value about anything. It's just all instrumental and I'll try something else equally nasty.

Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll leave it there. That's that's all I wanted to throw at you. I'll continue to listen to you complain about AI, as you should.

Speaker 10: OK.

Speaker 6: Hey, thank you, Artemis.

Speaker 9: Yep, have a great one.

Speaker 6: Well, that was a. A nice injection. It is good stuff to know. Yeah, you you can't. I mean, nothing is. I mean, I'm not a great pal of Noam Chomsky, but that that thing. And I wouldn't be saying this except it's public knowledge starting at the Wall Street Journal, his palling with the. Epstein, the late convicted predator, and. Just to low life of all time. But yeah, financially and. Friendship wise. That's even worse than. I mean, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have imagined that from Chomsky he just seemed like a straight up block headed lefty, but not a sleazeball like that. But hmm wrong again. Well, OK, getting back to the the old AI stuff. Yeah, this big statement today. Yeah. Safety regulations, licensing controls, that's what's needed, et cetera. Very light on how any of that would actually work, right, makes me think. Of in a way of. Various environmental warnings or pleadings. What would have to happen in order to implement any of that? You know any of that correcting? You know, or healing or whatever you want to call it avoiding. The worst of it. Well, if you're not dealing with the nature of it, the dynamics of it, you're just going to be consoling yourself. Well, we've expressed our concern. We made a public statement, you know, and. Meaning what I mean, if I I'm still waiting to see. Oh, seriously, that is. I mean, if they don't want to go very far, they certainly don't want to indict the whole thing. Far from it. So then you're left with. Gestures. It seems to me. I don't know. I'm not. I mean, if they're going to be doing something, I'm not opposing that. But I mean, is it just? Treading water that it doesn't stop the thing at all, I mean. Uh, but also. In today's news from the Atlantic, it's kind of interesting a piece called AI is an insult now. In other words, if you call somebody an AI that's a real put down, I guess it's like you're just a robot or something a machine. Yeah. And further it goes. People already tired of machine generated text and they're not afraid to say it. Good. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's healthy. And we'll see how far that goes. It's. I was going to hear about that. And you know it's you can count up all the errors that vast screw ups. You know, I was watching this. This is a very basic weekly television show, network television. I think it's on NBC Chicago Med. It's about a public hospital, a General Hospital. That gets privatized. It's a for profit hospital and I guess at the same time. It uh hooks up with something called 2.0. In other words, a an AI overview. It tells the surgeon what to do as he's operating and it's killed people. And there's a there's a rebellion against it. This is crazy. Doesn't know what it's doing. And you want to turn everything over. To this, I mean it's extremely Luddite as far as that goes, I mean it's. It kind of goes along with that Atlantic piece. It seems to me. Yeah, just your your standard. Evening. Uh TV series. I mean it's I think it's just usually all about the personalities. It's just pretty well done, but boy, they just veered off into this starkly political themes, you know, that are not just about interpersonal stuff. But also about the rest of it, it's coming down. For all of us. Meanwhile, the Governor of Florida. De Santis, another excrescence, he had this big Twitter roll out on Wednesday, right? Well, it took 1/2 an hour. To repair all the glitches of the dead air and so forth, the total mess. Talk about it techno screw up. It's just embarrassing. Hardly. The only thing that's embarrassing with the creep like that, but. Anyway, just uh yeah, this is. They can't seem to deal with humans, even in a slimy politicians way. You can't seem to manage that. So they're going to have this big. Techno hookup with Elon Musk, right? Except it. It was just a disaster. Well, here's something from Computex 2023. In Taipei. Has to do with video games and AI. Where you can actually talk. Well, you can talk to the avatars, right? You can. You can have a dialogue. You'll get an answer from the video game character. NVIDIA, NVIDIA CEO. Is calling it a peek at the future of games? Well, it's kind of clunky right now, but of course they're going to. Trying to perfect it. Kind of edges right into the whole Metaverse idea. Where all is virtual. Yeah, that's that's how that works. I guess that's how you progress. Into that zone of complete unreality and. Non humanness. Well, Stanford researches this is another new thing just today. Researchers are developing E skin. Yeah, and electronically simulated soft and stretching virtual skin. That can fool the brain. Yeah, it's all about. Pulling the wool over. Anything sensory. And reshaping it and fooling it, and whether it's deep fakes, whether it's always an endless cornucopia. Of the synthetic. Here's something from wired. Late last week. I think it's Friday the 26th. Where do real memories end and generative AI begin? Wasn't that the theme of? More or less, the theme of Blade Runner where the the replica so-called Replicant is being told it it's not her memory, she's just been programmed, right? Yeah. And that's the whole access point of the thing. Who is the replica and and? Whose memories are actual memories? Well, the point of this is where you got these. Photos you know, family photos, that sort of thing. Except they can be created. Rather easily, I guess AI powered editing tools that completely changed the context of the images and. You know. Move everything around and. Push the boundaries of truth, memory, and enhanced photography enhanced us like enhanced reality. Google dipped its toes in the water with the release of Magic Eraser in 2021. Now they're testing magic editor. The feature on select Android phones that repositions subjects removes. And edits out other elements and fills in with generative AI of course. Yeah, well, it's this stuff is not secret. They're advertising it. You know, they're they're promoting it. It's the opposite of secret. It's not like some. Weird Takeover scheming corporation? No, it's the technology. Being developed, certainly as we speak. Well, about a week ago the Japanese moon Lander crashed. Due to software failure.

Speaker 3: Where's your AI now?

Speaker 6: Yeah, right. What about it did not save the day. OK, well. We've run out of steam. We had one highly excellent call. You could still get in here. I think we would have some Zappa and maybe more. Randy Newman. I don't know. We're going to have to. Close out with this stuff. Thanks very much for tuning in and. Hope to be with you next week and then June.

Speaker 5: Turning the light. Wait and praise. Girl in the Sterling fight body lies. Girl alone in her room. A little liar. Tyson just peer for her, hoping that. God feels. Cut paper peoples 10. They're not real. The shape inside my. The bad things are behind you. I am the little king gal. Only you. Kisses and gloom on your dress. The lady's life. Killing the future time. Feather light.

Speaker 10: It's like I fell into drinking my life into. And then it was a. Dream on. Looks like a filling. It's so. Something taken from me that ain't real. It's just a dream. My way. 1st and stupid. But now?

05-23-2023

[audio]

Severe global warming impacts. Tohono O'odham ceremonial person shot 38 times by Border Patrol in Arizona at his front door. The Loop: How Technology Is Creating a World without Choice by Jacob Ward.. 45 minute interview with Darcia Narvaez by Evan, Kathan and Jamie.

Speaker 1: We're on Twitter at KWA Sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: When no.

Speaker 3: One thought the man was free, free in life, the way he thought his life should be.

Speaker 4: Freedom now the people, the people.

Speaker 3: Don't have the power to change things anymore. Don't have the power. To change things anymore anymore. When they ate the. Came a man. The time when no one thought of. Least the man is free. Free to live his life the way he saw. Life should.

Speaker 4: Be out of out of.

Speaker 5: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWB, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 6: That's right. You're listening to KWVA. Eugene. Hello. It's 7:00 on Tuesday. Time for anarchy radio. We've got John in the studio. We have a special program of interview today, and it's going to be fun. We're going to get to that. In just a second, we have some music from pop while we get ourselves situated.

Speaker 5: Hello there. Anarchy Radio for the 23rd of May. And as Carl mentioned and was announced last week, bulk of the hour will be a conversation with the Darshan Navias very worthwhile. Some friends put that together and I guess they won't be calls during that but. Very, very worthwhile stuff. I've got a few things to sneak in before we. Get into that in just 5 minutes or so. World Meteorological Organization predicts record heat in the next five years, with far reaching consequences. It was the end of last weekend yesterday, that same organization. Declared that because of El Nino and climate overheating, there will be yes heat records. Heat in quote uncharted territory. And you know now in India. Air conditioners are necessary for survival as it gets hotter and hotter. But that of course adds to the problem of global overheating. Meanwhile, fatal floods in northern Italy, whole towns underwater. And at the moment this Super Cyclone Malwa is about to hit Guam in the South Pacific highest. Water in decades 4545 foot waves nearby already. An interesting story about rice. Rice is in trouble as Earth heats up. There's the front page. Story yesterday and of course billions depend on it. But there's not enough water. There's too much water. Rising seas nights are too warm all the. Stuff that has to do with global warming. Coming down on the various rice fields around the world. It turns out that New York City is sinking under the weight of its skyscrapers. Under the weight of civilization. Yeah, more. More risk of coastal flooding, some parts worse than other, lower Lower Manhattan, Northern Staten Island. Also, well, parts of Brooklyn and Queens also. Sinking pretty fast. Yeah, they're pretty worried about that already. And of course. Indonesia's capital Jakarta not only sinking, but being abandoned. You might have read about that as uh. The capital. Is going to be relocated. It's yeah, 800 miles away and new capital. So long to Jakarta. And I find it interesting it's been more attention to Jenny Odell's book saving time. Yeah, kind of pivotal, it's it's. I think it's good. It's worthwhile that, that's. Being talked about, thought about. And here's a line. One of her lines that kind of sums it up. Our time management obsession risks undermining our humanity. Pretty strong, in other words. That's how alienating time is. And how? It stands over us. All the more. And see what else? Oh, here's got to get to this one. This was commented upon by Ophelia Rivas. In fact, I'm wearing a. Oh, to him shirt. And that's West of Tucson Laudem people. Raymond Matya, a traditional otome person, a ceremonial person was shot 38 times Thursday night, standing in the doorway. Of his home. And Ophelia said he was not an aggressive kind of man. He was not violent. And it is said. That he had evidence that the Border Patrol was in league with cartels to smuggle drugs across the border. I don't have any source on that or any follow up on that. That just could be the motive for that killing. And here's a dirty little thing and I I am surprised that nobody. Sent it to me. Noam Chomsky had financial dealings with the. Late sexual predator convicted predator Jeffrey Epstein turns out he moved money around for his friend Chomsky. Big amount of money. Kind of a scandal there. I don't have time for much in the way of resistant snooze, but I. Saw a piece about Earth uprisings. That's a group. It's a network. A video from France. Calls for defiance in the face of state repression, the formation of base committees and defence of the Earth, and the spread of eco sabotage, movement across borders and social divisions. And here's an even newer book, by the way, the loop how technology is creating a world without choice and how to fight it by Jacob Ward. It's not real strong about how to fight it. It it tends to talk more about policy on the part of tech corporations, these patterns that. Are manipulating and you know the the basic stuff too about algorithms to predict what users users want based on what they already have told them all on Sunday what they want, what they buy. And how autonomy is undermined and people are just along from the ride for the ride. Well, way more on. The bane of existence, especially among youth social media, which is used by 95% of 13 to 17 year olds. And another piece about cell phone use smartphone use. And underlining this finding that the younger you start, the more. It's going to. Be bad news for your emotional development. Your mental health later on. Lots of people have their kids begin using a smartphone before the age of 5. Let's do it in a nutshell. But E sports is kind of fading out if it's going to be so hot. Not so popular. Not the next big thing in entertainment video game teams. You imagine anything more boring? I can't. Well, here is the interview, and I think it'll speak for itself. Have a listen to this.

Speaker 6: Well, we we may have to. Try a different way to do this. We're going to, we're going to take a little break.

Speaker 7: I've been navigating my waves, reality of a godless existence, which at this point in my life. By myself. I don't care about nothing for you. Guess it doesn't matter. Your little songs are getting way too literal. Damn subtle, keeper changed. Get a loop with that wall. Feel, feel. At all. It's alright. The flash wound you said you never saw coming. I'm pretty happy. It's pretty good to feel something. I care about something.

Speaker 2: This meeting is being recorded.

Speaker 8: Hey folks, Lucian here. I've been a longtime listener to anarchy radio and occasional caller, and I'm happy today. To be joined. With frequent Co hosts Catherine, as well as frequent contributor Jamie to bring you this special. Segment of Anarchy Radio. Today, we're also joined by special guest. Marsha Narvaez. Some of you may be familiar with darsha from being a contributor 3 times. I believe to the podcast last Born in a wilderness which a lot of us are fans of. Darsha is a professor of psychology emerita at the University of Notre Dame, Fighting Irish. She's the author of over. About a dozen books, I believe. Including 2014's neurobiology and development of Human morality, 2019's indigenous sustainable wisdom, she writes a regular column for Psychology Today. She's the host of the website evolvemath.org, the Co creator of the film breaking the cycle. And darshan's work. Focuses on world development and human flourishing, as well as evolved parenting. So. Welcome to you, darsha.

Speaker 9: Thank you so much. Pleasure to be with.

Speaker 8: Darsha anarco primitivist thought for a long time, has been interested in the topic of child development and parenting. One of the immediate precursors precursors to modern and primitive thought was a fellow named Jacquemont who became disillusioned with the idea that the working class. Would ever revolutionarily change society into something sustain? Unable and so we thought that we need to sort of find a way to leave the system of capital and focus on having a healthy, sustainable society where children didn't grow up with repression later. On that sort. Of influence gut came to be shown. With Gene Wedlock's book The Continuum concept, which was widely circulated among the green anarchist community, was reviewed in green Anarchy magazine. I myself, in the the late 2000s, was fortunate to be part of an intentional community focused on rewilding and parenting or unparenting, as we called it, was a hot topic for us to sort of implement some of these sort of evolutionary strategies. Now one of the frequent criticisms we hear as anarcho primitivist is we're accused by some of being too essentialist, that we're asserting. Some sort of. Baseline that doesn't exist. We hear this, for example from David. Graber and Wingra in our book the dawn of everything, who kind of assert that there's no social baseline of of human egalitarian. Similarly, we may hear that when you assert that small band hunter gatherers serve as a psychological baseline for what it is to be human, how would you respond to that sort of criticism?

Speaker 9: Well, I think scholars today typically kind of just pick out of. The air. A baseline. They usually pick the last few 100 years or among moral morality people. It's the ancient Greek. And all that is like. The last 1% the the 1% of the 1% of our existence on the planet, I think it's much more responsible to look at the whole history of humanity, the deep history of humanity, and see what we were like over the course of evolution and how our speciation about 300,000 years ago, what we became. Then it's called Homosassa in Sapiens. And what we how we thrived. How do you know what a creature is like? Unless you look at the optimal functioning of that creature and we we're concerned about that for dogs and race horses, right? Why aren't we concerned about that? For human beings, we kind of forgot what the context for proper. Healthy development for a human being is we we pay attention to plants for those things, right? But we have to remember now that we too are Co constructed by our experience, more so than any other animal, pretty much because we're more complex. And more so than chimpanzees, we have more epigenetic things going on. And so you have to understand that we are so malleable in those first years of life that it really matters what kind of environment, social environment, especially the child is raised in. And that's shaping their personality. It's shaping how well their body. And brain work. For heavens sake, let's pay attention to the optimal way of raising human beings. The the places that that promote our fullest capacities, and it certainly is not today.

Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm curious. Kind of listening to Evan and his question the way it's formulated is the I've lived through. I come out of the 70s, I've lived through a period where the modernism post modernism, you know, Marxism, Leninism. Maoism, anarchism, and anarcho primitivism. This whole trajectory of change and. Somebody when I read your book like it gives me an interest in like what, your personal journey that led you to kind of imaginative ways of looking at. You know the the anarcho primitive is thought or or. These kind of theories. Post you know postmodernism in a in a. I would say in a literal translation of that term, like coming after modernism, there was a book farewell to an idea and the whole revolutionary advocacy and revolution and, you know, share the wealth and and this kind of thing that that developed and was part of that. Cold War. Scenario of the 50s, Sixties, 70s, eighties, 89 and and now we're living through this period of of change within the nation States and. Years all over and increased wars and and all that kind of stuff. I've talked too much, but I'm trying to get back to like I recognize Notre Dame has a history. You, your book, even neurobiology and the development of human morality in the 90s. In political circles, it was very unfashionable to talk about morals, and I I'd be criticized if I was talking about like, well, that's just a moral argument. So there was this whole. Post modern rejection of any known known. And and and in. In some ways it's. It's evolved into into philosophy departments and and real changes in education. You know, just just huge amounts of change that are to the mechanistic world worldview. Once again, I'm talking talking too much. I think I'm. I'm very curious. You're you're well grounded. You've many awards in academia. You're coming out of Notre Dame, which is not considered, you know, by many a progressive. It's a very elite institution. They have a good football team, my father. Loved them. So there's a good movie about a very humane movie. After about one of the players. So I'm curious how you got to where you are and your appreciation of small band hunter gatherer, you know, your personal journey.

Speaker 9: Well, it's actually a long and complicated story. I'll try to make it very quick. My earliest memory is of a child being poor, unjustly treated. And that forever seared in my mind, there is something wrong. I spent half my childhood in outside of the United States, where there were children my age selling gum on the street corner in rags, and then I would come back to the states. We'd go away for a year and come back for two years and go away for a year. And coming back, it was like abundance. Hundreds of kinds of cereals to pick from. And, you know, it just didn't make any sense to me. So ethics was always concerning to me from a young age. I was interested in things, so in college I was a music and I became a church organist. Organ was my major, and I taught in the Philippines, and I became a a well. I went to seminary looking for truth. There's the truth. What's wrong with? The world and seminary didn't have the right kind of. You knows whoever had the loudest voice was the one that was listened to. It seemed to me. And then I kind of I went off on my own and had my own business. I became a Spanish middle school teacher because I'd grown up speaking Spanish. And finally I found in the middle of that the field of moral development. Wow, this is it. I'm studying that. And so I got my PhD at the University of Minnesota. Where they hired me there and that field worked on moral reasoning. You know how people think and, you know, make a decision and then act from will, you know, and all that stuff. And that became quite unsatisfying because of course, I've discovered all these other fields, anthropology hunter. Another child. It's effective neuroscience, animal neuroscience, and how we're mammals and mammalian brains act like this. Discovered Alan Shore and the neurobiology of Interpersonal relations in early life, and I put it all together, it all kind of slammed together with the Iraq war, people going to war for no reason. It made no sense. What's wrong with people that they would do that and it all kind of came together in this idea, what I call try and ethics. Where we are shaped in early life to be oriented to, to be attracted to particular ways of being, and when you're under cared for, when you don't get your needs met as the baby, you're going to be highly stressed and easily threats react and then you're going to be attracted to that ways of being because that's what you know and you don't know this egalitarian. Fluid dynamic way of being, which our hunter gatherer ancestors and cousins exhibit all over the place. That's that's human humanity. That's the nature of being human is the flexibility of tuned into the natural world to one another to be able to be. You know, negotiate and collaborate and be communitarian and collaborators across with nature and. And so, anyway, my neurobiology book, the book proposal was a certain way. It was about presenting all this neuroscience information. And in this morality. And it led me to realizing, Oh my God, we need to return to hunter gatherer ways of being, because that's how we grow our human nature and and that's what we find in the among indigenous traditional indigenous persecution folks. That's where primal wisdom is. That's how you shape it in early life and you honor it and nest what I call now. Evolved nestedness and you need nestedness throughout life to maintain your humanity. So anyway, it's been a long, twisted story and pathway to get here.

Speaker 2: Well, I think I think another thing that that resonated was your description of that, that, that early childhood and development, the whole safety effect that, that, that really. In many ways the the problem or or contemplating the the mass violence and the mass shootings that in the present day now it's like every they get what we get one week of that being the headline story because we have a definition that over 4 constitutes a mass shooting. And so it's one of those within the culture. And so maybe you could talk some too about what is the safety ethic, because I think that that that was very good explanation or understanding of how the, what's the culture. In the civilized societies that were operating within and and what's kind of basic law?

Speaker 9: Right, I called it the safety ethic at 1st and then the engineers started to criticize me for that because safety is a good thing. And then then I called IT security ethic and then the attack. When people criticize me so. Now I call it the self protectionist. So that's all about, you know, your your whole desire is to feel safe and you're oriented that way. You see things that way. Your affordance is what you see as possible actions, what rhetoric is attractive to you and these things get seated in early life when you leave babies to cry, you leave them alone and a crib to sleep alone. This is very counter to our mammalian heritage, to our way of constructing the safety. The continuum that gene wedlock talks about, you need to maintain that sense of connection. Throughout life, and if you break that connection in early in childhood, early childhood, Oh my goodness. You've now broken their sense of well-being. And it's incredible that we think that's OK. But, you know, the Western civilization is all about this connection all the way through in every way, every way you can imagine disconnection because we're just objects, you know. And when you wander through the world with the world of objects, not relationships, it's all about relationships, of course. So. The safety that comes from the sense of disconnection, the inability you don't grow the capacities then to get along is you've you've been disconnected as a baby. You think that's normal, you have to protect yourself. You go into protection. Protectionist ethics, racing against the world. Just automatically. You've lost your free will. Your parents have distressed you or the community, the it's the community's responsibility, not just the parents. The community has to support the parents so they can. With the baby and and so that baby now has lost free will they go automatically to threat reactivity and then if you've given them guns or some other tools handy when you're in that mode, you've downshifted to pre human capacities of territoriality of US against them. You know you have to be #1 nomination. So that's what the protectionist ethics about. And we're promoting it all over the place, right? That's what the Western civilization has just done. Like eradicating all these beautiful integrated communities of relational focus relational ethics, and then breaking that all into little individualism is right in the sense of controlling, wanting to control and dominate and win.

Speaker 10: Darsha, can you connect some of that also to the stress response and then also detachment?

Speaker 9: Yeah. So the stress response when that kicks in, the blood flow shifts, it shifts away from your higher order thinking to your muscles or flight right or fight or if that doesn't work, you go into the freeze response and you and you dissociate. I mean that. So the stress response system is is meant for acute situations when you're running away from the lion. Right, Run, run, run. And if you can't run, then you try to fight and that fighting doesn't work. Then you go into the freeze state, the parasympathetic system kicks in. And and then you dissociate. So abused kids, abused people going to this dissociated state where they're kind of somewhere else. Derek Jensen talks about when he was abused sexually as a child. Talking to the stars. You know out there because he's not gonna be in his body now. So you're training children and not be in their bodies to not be present right when you abuse them or when you under care for them so the stress response is something that's. The the thresholds and the patterns are set up in early life based on experience, and once that sensitive period goes by, you're stuck with that unless you work so hard. You know, with meditation and other forms of self healing later to get past that easily triggered stress response. What was your other? That detachment? Yeah, so. The other thing is, if you're left alone a lot. All right, let's imagine the baby. You leave the baby alone and they feel scared or they need something and they start to cry, cry, cry. And if they cry long enough, let's say the parents come because they hear the baby crying. OK, they learn now they're crying works. So they're gonna cry more easily. So you're creating a personality that's kind of irritable, right? What if you leave? The parents have been told. Oh, you should leave them crying. And then you'll have been control, you know, and make them sleep and. And you just so I've had parents e-mail me. I had a I was on a plane. Got a text from a parent and says I'm sitting here after my wife went back to work after three months. We were so good to our baby and now we were told we have to sleep train her. I'm against the dryer because we were told just put her in a room and let her cry herself to sleep. Put the dryer around so you can't hear her. And he said I couldn't take it anymore. So here I'm holding my crying baby. What do I? Two. So what happens if you do let the baby cry himself to sleep? They have to. They're now disconnected, right? They have to go into that dissociated state just to stay alive. They have to stop crying or they're gonna die because gonna use all their energy and they have to go into dissociated state. But most of us have parents were inconsistent who left us to cry. And then then you'd have to figure out you not, not you. Don't go into dissociation, but you you figure out that they're gonna come. So you're gonna stop and then you stop trusting them. And So what that does is it puts you into the cognitive way of thinking. You don't ever feel your feelings anymore cuz they don't work when you express your feelings. The parents don't respond. You shut up. And so in my family. Emotions were not express. And so that's in a family that that's focuses on achievement, right. So you go on your intellect, go onto your, your detached way of thinking, I call it detached imagination. And we have a whole Western civilization built on detached imagination where you have a you make up these models in your head and they use logic and reasoning and convince the other people who think like this and oh, yeah. That's really good, but. When you apply to the real world, it doesn't much work right and you can see this with all the. And environmental scientists who go and try their models when they're, you know, dealing with particular animal wolves or something. And the wolves don't act the way their model does. What's wrong with them? Right. So detached imagination is what we think is reasoning is good, is being human is to think well and pass the. Tests and get pays and all this stuff. Human it's an aberration of our humanity, and most of the major world religions and philosophies say it's very dangerous to stay very long in that mode. In the thinking mode, because if you still, if you stay in that thinking mode, you're going to start to think. That's who you. Are as human being. That's a very dangerous tool. And so that's what we have enhanced in the Western world for those kids who make it through school, they think that's the way to be human. And so those adults want to teach babies how to read. No, no, no, no, no, because the right brain is the one that's developing in early life and the right brain is about relationships and connection and immersed understanding of how things work and dynamism and empathy and higher consciousness. And that left brain, which is about reading in English. And left brains about school and left brains about the world of all these. Adults that run the world. Guided by those, the fearful, insecure, deeper feelings, the self protectionism, so the self protectionism, when that's highlighted in early life and then you add the imagination, your abstract thinking, then you can be vicious and controlling of others. And detached imagination is about. You know, wanting to control because you don't feel safe unless you have control.

Speaker 10: Using the title of the paper you wrote with Mary Tarsha the missing mind. Contrasting civilization with non civilization development and functioning. Can you talk about the non civilization? Development and functioning as you understand it. Coming from the aspect of small band Hunter Gap. Numbers and how it's different in a general level.

Speaker 9: Yeah, I think we've identified a few things. There's probably many more, but. E Richard Sorenson, the anthropologist, was a film he started the filmography approach to anthropology. And he took. Videos, films of all sorts of what he called Pre Conquest Peoples. Around the world. And he said he realized later that he couldn't really take in what he's experiencing. He had to watch. The films over. And over to realize the different way of being this socio sensual intelligence that they have this he called it an individualistic, individualistic unified at oneness. He couldn't come up with it. There was no term in English, right? So he came up up with that, where each person's kind of, you know, autonomous and doing their thing. But so connected that they could understand what the others were thinking or feeling and and coordinate with them. And he has some amazing papers about that. What young people are able to do with storms and and just maneuvering a boat through the storm or or fishing, you know, jumping through the air and all this stuff because they're so connected to nature. And we don't even understand what that's like anymore. Lost so many skills and capacities I. Because we we wall in children, we wall them in a crib or a plastic carrier, they're they're sitting in that all day instead of wandering around and enjoying and building their sense of connection to the. Natural world and. To others and multiple others, there should be more than just Mom, a mom and dad. It should be, you know, ways of. Of that child learning to adjust to multiple others, human and and other than human. So one of the things that Marvin Brand has pointed out and others, I think Morris Berman. On a capacity that pre conquest people have is to DE differentiate, there's just an assumption of feeling connected and and and unified with others. That's more of the the default rather than this differentiation that we do with subject object and you know, categorizing people when we meet them, are they. Fatter than me or taller than me, or smarter than me. Whatever it is, that whatever category that your your family has emphasized over the years to you, you know, skinnier, fatter, prettier, uglier, whatever it is. And that's left brain stuff, right. So what we see then in, in our ancestral context is this whole integrated brain capacity using intellect one you have a problem to solve temporarily, but most of the time you're in this integrated brain where you feel connected in the flow of dynamic flow of life. And you can move and. Through and you, you know your way around without using a mental map model. You just know it physically. It's all embodied cognition. You're enacting your your relationships because you know that you're Co constructing life as you.

Speaker 8: Some of the things that you talk about as being part of what you call the evolved development niche or the the evolved nesting involves lack of stress in the the birthing process, breastfeeding to the age of four on average, positive touch for you know, as opposed to the. Negative touch. A lot of children experience and. Allow parents self-directed play. Is the breakdown because it seems to me and a lot of other people like the dysfunction and modern civilization is accelerating at at at a frightening pace. Does this reflect also a breakdown in that evolved nesting? Are we not doing those things? More recently, and compared to 50 years ago, 100 years ago.

Speaker 9: Yes, it's accelerating. We degraded nesting, but it started back with some when hierarchical civilization came about, because then people were forced into laboring right wage labor or slavery. And then you're you're not able to take care of babies in the way that in the nested way. And so. The rains shifted. And you're in a crisis mode. I think all the time. Then I think we've been in a crisis mode for 10,000 years, at least in those civilizations. And when you're in the crisis mode again, your blood flow shifts away, right? You're higher thinking and things don't develop properly. And then you, you're just Orient trying to get through the day, you know, just trying to make it and have a good night's sleep or something to get food on the table. All those things are just horrid. This is not the way our hunter gatherer. Cousins live at least they've been used. And it was a really enjoyable lifestyle that, you know, where you shared and you were generous and you knew that you were vulnerable and they were vulnerable. And so you were together, but you were not afraid so much of death like we are. That's left brain stuff again. Because it's very ego oriented to be afraid of death. But to understand that this flow of life you're going to be here again. Grandfather. You know the newborn, his grandfather and reincarnated. So you better respect that newborn, for example.

Speaker 2: I I think one one of the positives I took from your book, the whole idea of self office authorship and how we can change ourselves and cultural norms. And we've spent a lot of time talking about infancy and childhood development. And and how that changes with in Hunter gatherer societies and and attached different ways of being a parent or being a mother. That or in community that that are essential for. You know a a redirection of humanity. However, the the adults, right, the the current, the current in the current cultures that we're living in, I I see your background. You see my background, right? We're living in sedentary households and cities associated with institutions and all that. And I think I think it'd be nice to talk some about how not just the individual having a safety ethic, but our own society. You mentioned the Iraq war, and to me there was the acceleration of the dysfunction the, you know, the radical acceleration. In our time such that that the age of fear, the age of terror, the the culture is one of. Of death and die? I mean, it's a it's a hopeless jump off the Cliff lemming type thing. And I think the the salvation. If we want to use bad terms. But but the the the the transformation, the ability to self author and to change our culture. It becomes. How is that done and and some of the things just that that Evan just mentioned in terms of infants and child raising and breastfeeding and that applying it to the cultures that we're currently living in and how how that collective consciousness? The the same things that when we talk about the individual. In this in civilization, then the culture. In civilization and how that can be self authored different and and I think that's where you start to get into like extension, engagement, essay and collective collective resistant.

Speaker 9: Right. Yeah. So the engagement ethic is our heritage, which is what you exhibit when you're well raised, when you are nested, you're able to be present with others to. Develop a unique interpersonal dance with that person every time you see them, right? It's a newness instead of a scripted Ness, which is if you're in a insecure space, you use a script to come to to relationships and you you figure out if you're dominant or submissive in this moment or not. Or you know what the rules are. You you have. This inflexibility or rigidity that you bring because you don't, you don't have the skills to be flexible or you're so scared you can't even let go of those scripts. So the engagement ethic is about being present. And I think that's how we transform our communities. We have to be present to, to the other. That means we each have to. Make sure we know how to calm down and the longest chapter in that book is about what to do if you were not unnested yourself, you didn't receive that early nourishing, nurturing care that helped your brain develop in the optimal. Hey, and so you have to learn to calm down with belly breathing and the meditation. Whatever it is, there's. All sorts of things you can do. And then you have to learn social joy. So in my classes with undergraduates college students, we would learn folk song games because I was a music teacher and we would play these folk song games together. And then so they have to hold hands. And they're looking at each other and they're singing. So their vagus nerve is getting tuned up because that's. Related to all the major. Organs of the body, so good health. And then we would go teach those to kindergarteners and then they would play with kindergarteners and they would just see the joy and delight of that child that. Child likeness that we as adults can return to to that joyous time. And then so you need to calm down and you have to learn to be able to be flexible, flexibly attuned and music is a great way to play for anybody who who feels, you know, stressed out. And on on social go play with a young child is what I would say or do. Music. Something you have to do in the right in the moment, or else it falls apart. So that's music or dance or playing with a young child that's growing your right brain that's growing your empathy. It's growing your higher consciousness. It's growing your capacities. Then then we can use our imagination, our abstract thinking based on that rather than on these scary, you know, little bracing against life, a little kid things back in babyhood that we. Or our pre human capacities to be dominators.

Speaker 8: That reminds me of just your concept of of self-directed play being so important because so much of what I see children having access to is script and play, right? It's the parents bringing children to soccer practice and then to choir practice and then it's. It's already laid. Out for them. And it seems like that is connected with a sense of victimization or lack of confidence. Perhaps as as child ages to to not have. This sort of self direction.

Speaker 9: Yeah, it's kind of a helicopter parenting. I think helicopter parenting comes about because first, the parents are told not to nurture their babies, and then they, their children are kind of dysregulated as a result. And so then they move in to try to help the poor child, who's so unconfident, lack of self esteem, lack of whatever. Because they missed the sensitive periods and so structured play well, it's better than no. Way, but it's not what you need to build the brain. In the same way self-directed play, you have to learn to control yourself and not be too aggressive because your playmate will stop.

Speaker 0: Playing with you if.

Speaker 9: You if you're too aggressive, right, and you have to react to the unexpected behaviors of your playmate. All this is great. Your executive functions the prefrontal cortex development and turns genes on for well-being and social capacities and leader things leader related to leadership.

Speaker 2: Another along those lines, I say playgrounds though in terms of, you know, the subtle not not really visible people don't even think about how hierarchical, how directive, how authoritarian presence of those are as opposed to just the field. By a stream or a boulder in the Meadow with something I would.

Speaker 9: That's it. The adults want control. I mean, they feel so insecure themselves. They want to control everything, and their kids. And that's part of. It and then we have the. The legal system. Right, you Sue everybody all the time. So that I guess that that wrecked playgrounds in Germany, I think because people started to sue if the kid got injured on the playground. And so the. Yeah. So it's really crazy adults have.

Speaker 2: Gotten, not. It's also the whole thing of like when a kid walks and. Sees that in front, it directs it. Closes down your imagination. You're directed to stairs to climb up, and then you slide down and then you repeat that again, again and again.

Speaker 9: So different from going to a forest where you, you have to decide what you're going to do. There's a tree. There's a. Log there's, you know. Yeah, a lot more creativity.

Speaker 10: Before we run out of time. I wanted to ask. A a broader reaching question that I think is really important to the listeners of anarchy radio. So in the paper you wrote David Witherington Witherington. Getting the baselines for human nature development and well-being, you talked about how the four shortened view of humanity that most academics. Leaders and political pundits operate with leads to a downwardly shifted baseline for human functioning, missing the higher order capacities of humanity. And what has been adapted for humans? Cooperative sociality. Whose complexity takes decades of developmental support to fully attain. And So what I really wanted to ask you about is this idea that it takes decades for this. Level of consciousness to. To evolve and begin operationalizing, you know in. Respect to the. The evolved developmental niche, etcetera, you know my opinion is that this is really unlikely to take place at any high level in. Side of life ways that depend on the dominant economy, and I've mentioned to you before in other conversations that there are some communities rewilding oriented communities and some of the primitive skills oriented people and so forth that are really focused on trying to get in these positions where. You actually have community oriented alloparenting. Where there there are. Groups of families living in one location that are trying to step out of the dominant economy to the furthest extent possible. And shift away into an actual aloe parenting condition. And I just wanted to get your comments on that, knowing that that is actually occurring amongst some people and and and how you think that? That what you promote can play out with inside of the inside of the the dominant economy or not.

Speaker 9: Well, that's a big question that last. One, let me. Just say I I really applaud the move to have communities with multiple age, our parenting going on. Our brains are still developing. Actually I think probably till age 60. And for a child that those first. Three years, five years, six years are really critical, but there's another time that's really sensitive and that's early adolescence. I used to teach middle school and their brains are deconstructing and reconstructing themselves. So that's a time when you can move in to make repairs from what might have been missing in early childhood. But then late adolescents, also college years, are also quite malleable still. And until about age 30, that's when the executive functions supposedly are finishing up. And that's empathy and foresight and self. Control in various. Ways you know, the car companies don't. Don't. Sure, young men very cheaply until after age 25 because they know this, that they're impulsive, they still are learning to be fully in self-control. But even in age 40 and 5040, for men and 50 for women, the brain is learning to synthesize and integrate. So there's a lot. To look forward to actually. So I think at every age we need those older mentors. We need the elders to help us. Because we're always learning, there's always more to learn and we need the guidance of people who are wise anyway. And in terms of the, the larger society, I think that's. Completely upside down, right? There's the focus on youth and beauty and forget the elders. They're all washed up. Just put them away. So that's very upside down compared to our heritage.

Speaker 10: Just like. What I find is is that it's so hard for parents to be able to. Engage in. The practices that your work discusses when they're just in the. Route race, yeah. And and now and now beyond the route race, people are in a position where if they're not just hooked to their screens and on the Internet all day. Then they can't even get by in society. And to me that just seems so detrimental to the capacity to actually pay attention to children and parent and be able to to share parenting duties with other adults and so on. It's just. It's just catastrophic to me so.

Speaker 9: I agree. I think we have to pull back and want less. If you are a family that's in the the rat race. Just get less stuff so you can stay home with one person, can stay home with a child and move in with the extended family. Hopefully you get along right and and build your own aloe community Alloparenting community around you, but it takes a lot of energy to do these things. That should just be there. Right. In our ancestral context, you don't have to work so hard at getting the support cause it's built in here. We have to do all that added on being a parent, it's quite a lot of. Extreme stress, I guess.

Speaker 8: About what we need to make in our lives, the changes we need to make in our communities really, really large and that's sort of our project, right, so.

Speaker 10: How about lastly? Go ahead. Well, we have two minutes.

Speaker 2: Well, I want I want I want to hit on on the whole when Darsha was talking about song and and hanging out with the the school children in their class.

Speaker 10: Maybe take one minute.

Speaker 2: This is putting people in contact with that that the whole sensory engagement and the disconnection from the screens and the the mediations between what is human and what is sensory, what is sing dance, you know, move your body. That that that's an important for. For being a complete whole being.

Speaker 9: Absolutely, yeah, especially in the natural world to go out and and hug a tree and and lie in the ground and dance together outside and just be. Feel the energy universe loves you, right? So feel it. Let it in and and honor the plants and the animals around you and respect them and ask permission. These are all things our ancestors knew about Native Americans. Talk about. We have to get back to that.

Speaker 8: Well, I think that's an excellent note to close on darsha cause I think we're we're about out of time. But even though this is a recorded segment, I I hope that listeners do feel free to call in and share their thoughts on on, on our topic today because enter key radio is a A is aired. Live so everyone. Thanks for for joining us. Thank you so much darsha for for doing this and being generous with your time. And as you said on your your closing remarks there, I hope everyone can sort of get reimbursed, hug a tree outside and. And and and and apply these lessons to our lives.

Speaker 9: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 8: Appreciate it.

Speaker 6: All right, well, that was it. OK. It's been anarchy radio. We'll have some music to go out with and have a great week. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 7: Sitting around and thinking there's more like it.

Speaker 0: With this.

05-16-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Big recall fever. Broken sociality. Where is the social in a landscape of loneliness and isolation? The Age of (Techno-) Acceleration. Doug Rushkoff jumps ship: gives up on the internet. "The social fabric is fraying in a thousand ways," David Brooks.Growing global fungal infections imperil planet's food supply. Darcia Narvaez interview next week. Two calls.

Speaker 0: Next you'll come.

Speaker 1: Up here in just a few moments here on KWVA 88.1 FM. You've been listening to quack smack on kW VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at KWA radio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at KWBA. Sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 0: I'm I'm. Bills on the.

Speaker 2: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 3: That's right. You're listening to kW, VA, Eugene, it's time for anarchy radio. We've got some music to start off with here. We're we're getting ready. Sorry.

Speaker 4: Like like.

Speaker 0: It's fine.

Speaker 2: And if we had Tammy and 12 inch, then that's what it was it. Was playing and. His Kathy, and it is energy radio from May 16th.

Speaker 5: Here I am down from the big city again a.

Speaker 2: Good, good, good.

Speaker 5: Pleasure as usual. You want to go.

Speaker 2: You know well, this is just an odd thing to start with, but. It seems like a crazy explosion of recalls. I mean, I don't know why even stick these in. There, but it's. Maybe it has to do with the? Global collapse? Things but.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. There you go.

Speaker 2: I'm just going to. I just want to mention it. China recalled 1.1 million Teslas on the weekend over breaking risks. Today, over 200,000 jeeps were recalled. They may catch fire even when the engine is off. And last Friday GM recoiled almost 1,000,000. Vehicles life threatening airbag defects, meanwhile, Peloton recalled. Two days ago recalled 2 million exercise bikes, dangerous exercise bikes and General Mills. About 10 days ago, flower recall due to salmonella. I mean it's is that where you're coming to or nothing? Nothing works. Everything is dangerous.

Speaker 5: And as as you said, with collapsing society, those recalls and no surprise, you know the stories and this grows and and where where the problems are coming from like flower with salmonella you know but but creating antibiotics if you oh, This is why. Civilization is good. We're so advanced we can cure salmonella with antibiotics or whatever. So The Jets 22. Anyway, rambling on, I wanted to be to be sure to put in a plug for I believe next week's show you're going to broadcast the interview. The that we had number of people with Dorothy Nora's eyes and. You know, I just, I just can't advocate enough her writings and her insight. I was taken immediately with neurobiology and the development of human morality, evolution, culture and wisdom of recent book that she put out, and then one of the interviewers, Jamie, had circulated some articles as well. That she that she was a part of riding her or coming out and and she's just just a a very significant. Although with a very significant voice and insights that that people ought to check out and pay attention to, and I was going to link by promo for the interview to Mother's Day as a as a way of doing the interview we'd initially talked. I was going to interview her and and one of the advocates of doing that was just like 2 strong female voices, which, hey, that sounded good to me. And and Mother's Day has just been here and so. But we didn't do it that way, didn't we? Conducted it much more as a conversation and. Putting together my my stream of consciousness, talking and chatting and thinking, one of the lines had I had. Underlined and wanted the quote and tying this together. Was this prior to the gradual emergence of herding and farming communities? Over 95% of humanities existence was spent in small band hunter gatherers, which are still present. These societies are matrifocal where motherhood and the feminine principle of life were respected. The focus is on meeting basic needs and living well within the cycles of the natural landscape with high social wealth rather than emphasizing hierarchical power and competition, which may have first started to appear with the practices of herding animals. Anthropologists are coming to realize the centrality of mothering and child raising in our ancestral environments and sciences, increasingly noticing the matrifocal, egalitarian nature of ancient societies, not only among First Nations, but civilizations. Such as the early Egyptian and Minoan. And and and goes on and on and and one one thing I totally appreciate in in reading. North Eyes ridings or the things she's collaborated with is just her very. Broad, broad approach to to questions in current society or concerns or problems we identify in in the world that we're living. And her approach is just so multifactorial.

Speaker 3: I want to interrupt you for a second. Artemis just called in a little while ago and he said there were some noises on the stream. Like what? The guys before we're talking about. And so if we tell people to move to stream, two people who are, I think, listening online are having that problem.

Speaker 5: Oh, OK.

Speaker 3: So on line there's two streams are stream one and stream two and if you are getting that noise you should just switch over to stream 2 because I think that one. Is a lot. Better. Thanks. Yeah. So Artemis.

Speaker 5: Thanks, Clark. Thanks Artemis. Also, I'm wondering the previous people in the studio said the other maybe I should try and switch microphone. OK. Thank you. OK anyway.

Speaker 3: It doesn't have anything to do with your microphone. Yeah, you're you're all good.

Speaker 2: That will be most of the hour next week. Sounds like terrific 25 minutes.

Speaker 5: I hope so. I hope so.

Speaker 2: You know this much needed work. I mean that's that's a voice that's such a pleasure to have discovered this during the past year here. As the estrangement is so palpable, what is that cliche where you could cut it with a knife and you just. We're bombarded with with the obvious. Like something from last born in the wilderness. I love that name. Last Friday, Nate Holdren. It's a piece called broker associate sociality, isolation and the pseudo return to pre pandemic pre pandemic normal. In other words, the deep loneliness, the absence of the social, really, you know, like we were talking about before. Yeah, by the way, Speaking of loneliness and thanks to C for this one from the new daily. Recently in terms of. The impact of loneliness as a as a thing in itself. Studies show they're talking about low energy. You know, I I don't know if I think of that right off the top. That's a function of loneliness. No energy or. You know the the. Absence of energy, the entropy, all that sort of theme is. And of course, other health problems as, as we know, there's all these studies and articles.

Speaker 3: Is there any fair call?

Speaker 2: Oh sure, I guess so.

Speaker 3: We have Matthew on the line.

Speaker 2: Matthew there. Hi there.

Speaker 6: Hey there, John. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Hey, you have to bear with me because I'm really not very well read on your voluminous writings. Basically my question today is kind of. Are the constraints on our species that we're calling domestication? Are those an inevitable like byproduct of just complex language? Whatever made that? Our rise in our species. Like his domestication in inevitable like byproduct of language, I guess.

Speaker 2: Oh, interesting question. Well, the symbolic that they once either descend into the symbolic symbolic dimensions seems to coincide with the coming of domestication, or whether that's. Somehow accidental or not, maybe it's. It may be decisive. It may not be, but that's the kind of thing that. Yeah, it it. What? How do these things emerge? You know, what is the origin? You know, that's that's a big question. It's so, you know, different strains of thought on that. But I.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 2: I think that you could make the case. You could see it as a as a function of the symbolic. You know starting with time and time consciousness and which has come to colonize us so terribly. You know, all the way along till now and and the rest of it as well. And you know we were we were talking about the. And anarchy book by Sasha Angle and very strong effort to get to the origin of reunification. And there's, you know, proving it ever more deeply is just fascinating to me. And, you know, how does that work? Tying it in with writing, you know, iteration, the repetitive nature of writing course language appears before writing or say, but. You know there it's part of that. You know, part of that. Developing dimension that. It, you know, ends up kind of crowding everything out and that's not been a happy story, you know, I mean. It's not a progression.

Speaker 6: On on on that note, just thought experiment if if say a culture was to sort of demonize writing and be strictly oral in more modern. And do you think that would help stave? Off some of the unsavory. Things we we deal with now, it is part of culture that we stuck to no writing.

Speaker 2: Oral cultures do seem to be. I think you would say more healthy and more more connected with the world than each other before writing it's I think that's been demonstrated fairly well.

Speaker 5: I think I think it's important though to point out from where we're at it a rule against riding. You know you're you're talking about modern society. You're talking about burn, burn, book burning. OK. I mean present day application. Is a part of the conversation and the critique I would say. And so I think that. Writing and the effect on memory and the artificial, you know, the generative artificial intelligence systems that are currently a hot topic in, in the world, we're living in all relates to how these questions are answered.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you bring up important. I don't know if the.

Speaker 5: Applications, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and coercion, I mean, that's.

Speaker 4: I don't know.

Speaker 2: Why? But that's sort of. Strikes me as one of the. You printed this one of. Rule the world and coerce people into blah blah blah. Well, I don't think that that of the color had that in mind either. But you know, it's not about coercion, it's about abandoning it, deeply alienated structures of thought or something like that. I mean it's I think that would be. Or the goal, or you know the way.

Speaker 5: Right, right. Well, and people understanding and developing consensus that this is not the way to to survive, to exist, to leave this collapsing.

Speaker 2: To approach it, maybe.

Speaker 5: Civilization is collapsing culture. Where in that, that abandonment of traditions that don't support and empower memory and and functions and memory and and that you know, I'll just go back to Darshan Arviz as the author. That kind of a whole holistic view of what is homosassa in you know where we're at now and what's happening to where we used to be that that puts us in this hell hole of the the culture that's dominant in in my life.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 5: Matthew, what do you think of that?

Speaker 6: Well, I I I deeply appreciate about about what you said about memory. I think that's such a a fascinating point where. Nowadays I feel like it can be shocking to see, you know, wonderful feats of memorization because we're so we're constantly delegating all of our faculties to technology. But you know, you hear about children that you know are 8 years old, that recite the entire Mahabharata. And it's like, well, that's how we're wired. That's how. That's like where we come from. But if we're constantly relying on these like you're saying, writing and these other technological enterprises, it's like it's almost like we don't get access. Our full humanness. And yeah, yeah, I really appreciate you taking my call.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 2: Thanks for calling us. Thank you.

Speaker 6: Thank you. Bye bye.

Speaker 2: OK, baby.

Speaker 5: I think it's so encouraging to hear. Like you mentioned, Sasha angle. What is it? Sasha angles. Yeah, and his his writings. What we were going to mention you. We can mention something about contemptuous.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we could get into that. That's.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like you say, encouraging, you know, new lines of thought and new challenges. And uh. Yeah, it kind of came out. Of the blue. Maybe I could just read a paragraph because as the intro here. The contemptuous idea communicate number one and this, you know, it hits you right away. These people are pretty unhappy with the intricacy seeing and what's wrong with it and why you know, that sort of thing? Well, this is early on and this this kind of hit some of it, it's certainly the threat of it and the. The feeling of it too, we the contentious, have each been self expressed and active anarchist for well over a decade for some of us in extending to several decades for others. But when we enter explicitly anarchist spaces like an occupied zone of mass protests, the book Fair Land Project to Social Center, a group house, etcetera. We to greater and lesser extents depending on the individual and the circumstances, feel less free. We feel we have to watch our words and refrain from joking. We feel many subjects are beyond discussion unless we are willing to risk a screening argument, we feel we have to assume a fistfight might develop over some minor or imagined slate. We feel calmly and normal blackmail, reign supreme. It is for us, a very bitter. Irony that we experience random conversations with normies at a bar, perfunctory exchanges with various people we encounter in daily life, or small talk with whomever in a checkout line or workplace is more open discussing spaces than the supposedly sober and self critical anarchist know you. You know that's that's pretty biting and I think that's one of the things that rotten, by the way, was getting at. You know you can't even start to discuss certain things that certain people will be offended and so forth. I mean, I don't think it's an easy, easy answer to it. But you know, here they're opening it up, you know, like, are we? You know, suppressing freedom with each other or not.

Speaker 5: Well, and I I thought in in that article in in some way there was some reference to the planned anarchy and the whole relationship of of a bigger view than the anthropocentric. All humans are this way. And we're all going down. Instead of like recognition. Well, maybe some humans are this way. In civilization. This is how those Homosassa piens are. But in fact, living systems, whether they're plant or animal. R&R cake. They're mutual cooperation. You know. There's, they have memories. They don't. All right, they don't all speak. You know, there are other aspects of what is life and living and and being fully alive.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you. You hit the learn of it there and when. You get away from. Ratifying, objectifying stuff. That's that isn't free, you know, it's. And he doesn't claim to have, you know, easy answers about it either. But it's a very interesting exploration that pushes this further, I think. In a very. Good way and some of this, by the way, is as I was discovering and. Being it has been in Oak magazine, you know, parts of it is he's drawing on trying to push his own work further.

Speaker 5: And Sasha angles. He was in Oak Oak Journal and number. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: That's what I mean. Such an angle? Yeah, he's drawing on his own. Staff to try to, you know. Push it further and.

Speaker 5: And isn't he? The the author of the the OR the creator of of the new alphabet that minimized. Yeah, yeah. Spacing the alphabet.

Speaker 2: Smashing the alphabet. I think that was his first book. And yeah, this kind of leads on from there. It's not. It's not so much about the problem of language, but. Yeah, very good stuff. And by the way, if you go to April 12th, anarchy anarchistnews.org scroll backward and you can find the. Where you can find it? I guess we're switching topics and sorry to be confusing, but that's where the contemptuous communique was published and and then also Artemis's response to it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: But as far as the Sasha angle work, that's OZ and starting with, I think starting with issue 3, three and four, bear on on his work.

Speaker 5: And and doesn't he have? Recently? It's been published right by LBC or something, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right. Give credit to a little black card. They've shown some. Good judgment there for sure. It's not simple stuff and it's not. Everyone's going to vote for it, so to speak. But been very worthwhile and say.

Speaker 5: And just backing up, I'll say that's where I think there's some some positive indication indications of new imagination, new critique, new thoughts, you know, new ideas being passed around.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean the old saying 1 swallow doesn't make a spring but. I know really. I've I've too find this. There's some fresh stuff going on in the new voices and new possibilities. Some of these folks and. As I said, you will be put out to pasture, so there's good new stuff coming on, that's for sure. Meanwhile, you know we have to cope with this. Horrible social landscape and troublesome persistence of anorexia by Pamela Paul. Recent New York Times op-ed. Girls are twice as likely to have mental health problems. It's not just about anorexia, it's it's about depression and. Various medical studies self harm among teenage girls, which has tripled. Between 2000 and 2014. Already very scary now. Yeah, link to the bigger the fuller picture of of you know. This sand landscape. David Brooks. Speaking of American capitalism, he's no he wouldn't say he's anti capitalist, but he points out that is the line from his piece on the 21st. The social fabric is freeing in 1000 ways. That's pretty, pretty clearly.

Speaker 5: And just pick up on that the whole the regular reporting of the mass shootings, the mass, you know, the violence in this collapsing civilization is just, you know, a depressing. You know, I like to not go too down on the dark side, but. It is really rather overwhelming the the the recent subway killing where you basically. Ex. Marine can strangle somebody in full public view and not be arrested. You know for for quite a delay in the period of time there was an article just the other day commemorating move, you know, Philadelphia. So some some of the recent. Recent like hidden paths that people don't know about that survivors and move frequently. The in the not too distant past, we may be doing public speaking engagements. I just saw an article on some attempt. I'm trying to find it because it's like how many years, 40 years since the outright bombing and killing.

Speaker 2: Well, the public speaking here, we brought Ramona Africa.

Speaker 5: You know, did it.

Speaker 2: To you and gene, it was, it was a wonderful stuff and and one of her brothers that can't think of his name. But that was marvelous to get to hear from her. Eugene, important by the way, remember of Portland State that she spoke at? Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm struggling through to find this in my pile. Sometimes I am too much so, but yeah. Yeah, no, the violence, absolutely going.

Speaker 2: Good. I could mention one just. I'm sorry to wrench the topic away. Again to change this, but environmentally one plus during the week I I noticed there's all this stuff written about the Great Salt Lake. Right next to the Lake City, of course. And how it's just disappearing. It's evaporating. It's going to result in all this toxic dust. That's going to be blown away and it'll be horrible. Not only no lake, but just poison in the air. Well, that's not happening because of all this. Back, you know. Records no back, so it's filling up again. So you know that's sort of no surprise. Well, we could. We could take a music break now. I guess it's halfway through.

Speaker 5: That sounds. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 4: Cut the dough. From your cup. I've got it done. Drinking from. Your cup. Come take you. You said just bring it up. I've got no future. My day is a few presents. Not that pleasant. 11 things to do. Path of the past would last me. But the darkness got that too. I should have seen it. It was red. Behind your. You're young and it was pride. No smoke, no cigarette drink, no. But that's always been your call. I don't miss it, baby. I got no taste for anything at all. I used to love the rainbow. And I used to love you. Early morning. Pretend that it was new. But I got the darkness baby. Got it. Burst in you.

Speaker 2: When you're done making a comeback there for energy radio. You know, one thing that's pretty timely and I didn't realize this. It's not a brand new term, but almost. I'm referring to a New York Times piece last Friday the 12th. David Brooks, writing about the age of acceleration. It's fairly recent. You mean he didn't cook it up, but. You know, and he's mentioning. He's kind of getting on to something. Here, he's wondering whether it isn't his onrushing technology. All the chat bot stuff and the rest of these AI systems. Possibly as transformation transformational change as the Neolithic Revolution and the Industrial Revolution. He's seeing it as that momentous. As AI boosts the information age into hyperdrive or unchartered waters, whatever you want to say about it, with consequent disruptions in his mind, he's wondering whether they rival that of the. The the horizons of domestication, or industrialism and the.

Speaker 5: He's being he's being too, too gentle on it because I think that that acceleration is pretty much being recognized by a lot of people to be altering what what it means to be human, you know, saying I mean. And really altering and and people in industrialization. The physical altering of biological matter, you know, like is. Is pretty pretty benign compared to to what we're doing to our bodies and our life systems is as one life form on on a very rich planet.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really good point here. I think you that could be very much true that it's much deeper than these other ones even where.

Speaker 5: It's so profound. I mean, it's so. The final battle in many ways.

Speaker 2: Well, it's also a little bit sanguine that some people are jumping ship, so to speak. ID didn't remember Doug Rushkoff in the 90s. He was a huge Internet booster, wrote a bunch of books. Big tech optimist. Well, he's changed his tune, looking at what you were just saying, you know, in terms of what's at stake, what's going South? If you will, I mean. That's that's kind of. Nice. Maybe there'll be more trainers to. You know people that are. Not on board with anymore.

Speaker 5: Jumping ship. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2: Because he was a very big time guy, he was all over the place.

Speaker 5: Well, who's that? Who's that guy, Jeffrey Hinton, or whatever the grandfather of it. And I think. I mean, I think Brooks is right. But he's also like, he's liberal. He's too, he's too low key about how alarming and how outraged how, you know, the implications are way more than industrialism.

Speaker 2: He doesn't have any. OK, that means what? What are you going to? What are you proposing? You know. Of course, there's nothing. There's he's not. Three hands off, even though you know that's the funny part of these, these things, you know, you deliver the verdict, you deliver the goods. And then you.

Speaker 5: You deliver the goods and you wring your hands instead of acknowledging that we're talking about minor. Priorities, we're talking about minorities, conquering humanity. You know, we're we're talking about. The whole history is a different way of living on the of being a living being on this planet and planet and of mutualism in a way of being that is so different than this lonely. Suicidal, homicidal society. Civilization that were. Our framework of David Brooks in the New York Times is, like, so benign when it's critical of what what's currently in existence.

Speaker 2: Yeah, at that at that level, it is a deeper level.

Speaker 5: And collapsing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's valid. And you know. All the consequent stuff, I mean, there's now there's a bunch of articles about. There was a piece of advice yesterday about lithium mining in Nevada. The gold rush. It's white gold. It's lithium, you know, so. Also boron and yeah, hmm and other, you know, scarce things. Well, the vice article points out that how about the endangered plants and fish and so forth. It's giving up for the damn lithium. I mean, so you got to solve the climate crisis supposedly by furthering the extinction crisis. I mean it, you know, it certainly doesn't make sense.

Speaker 5: Right. And people are even getting hip to that. You've got Mccrone meeting with Musk, you know who? WT WWF is Musk, you know, and and and his agenda and Macron calls for green paws and Biden now. I mean the whole, the whole green, green energy and just slide on over to. Where is this lithium? Where are they going to be contesting like Southern Oregon? Like Northern California? Like, pay attention. Find these sites. Shut it down before it's too late. But that's where that's where the David Brooks and all his cohorts, they'll just, they'll report to you. I think Wall Street Journal today, automakers invest to secure metals for EV's. And the whole this whole electrical vehicles, the amount of liberals who are driving. My Teslas you know, and I'm thinking that's that's that's anything that's like oh. David Brooks. I'm just. He's the name you mentioned, but like, there's a whole cohort there, minority. Is that not a call? OK. Oh.

Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know who that was, but there was so much noise I couldn't tell what was going on. So maybe if they're listening, if they turn off their radio and move to a quiet location, they can call back. But I couldn't understand what was going on.

Speaker 2: But it's cool.

Speaker 5: There you go. Well, continuing on the topic of environmental stuff, there was just an article, I think yesterday, Wall Street Journal, again, toxic water at Camp Lejeune linked to Parkinson's and. That that certainly caught my eye because I had a background in in healthcare for a number of years and there was a cohort that came up at 1 hospital. I worked in Chicago of just a unbelievable amount of healthcare providers who had Parkinson's and it just was. So, so apparent and all. And so now, like so, so many of the diseases that the Western medical industrial model is treating are caused by the civilization that that's been created and so and Parkinson's to your list. Very tragic kind of thing and we're looking for a cure.

Speaker 2: And we know what the cure is. But that's not a lot.

Speaker 5: That, but you're right, exactly the curves. The sad end of life. Really. How do you get there?

Speaker 2: That's another staggering thing from the independent. Thank you, OC. The rise in fungal attacks this is obviously because of the warming. Quite amazing is the threat to crops worldwide due to fungal infections estimated to destroy 10 to 23%. Of annual global. Output and it's getting worse as the temperatures. Get ever higher as you go north. The more the planet is involved, more fungi. That is a problem, you know, confined to southern regions, it's spreading towards the North Pole now, of course. So that's incredible. That's a that's a gigantic. Impact the world's food supplies, I mean. Not to get into the whole topic of domesticated agriculture, but I mean. You know, there's just no escaping it. It's just it's. The failure of civilization is this disease that just to ramp and then on every front.

Speaker 5: Well, and and what's what's what's causing the failure is is generally swept into this whole narrative and written history. We can say this, this or spectacular society reported, you know, whatever. Multiple causes. That the things that are being reporting then and claimed as victories and such are are caused by the civilization, and so right now many people are feeling very comfortable and happy with look at COVID I know, got my look at COVID. It's become nothing. No big deal. We're all safe. Who declared the? Pandemic over WHO declared the pandemic. It's over and operation warp speed. What a day. The COVID maccini you know, impacts livid. All these kind of things. We've got it under control. We've risen above it once again. Yay. Technology kind of thing. It's just like this just started. And distorted and irrational thinking.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And you can just look at it case by case. We're awash and plastics. The oceans are awash and plastics is ubiquitous.

Speaker 5: Or rational over rational thinking.

Speaker 2: Verticals and their lungs and everywhere, everywhere. Well, the answer is recycling, of course, right? Except that every day. I mean, all this ubiquitous of plastics, even in our brains. Now, there's a study about that. The ubiquitous forever chemicals, for example, plastics go away well, it turns out the study in England shows that the process of recycling plastics makes more plastic in the air. So it's it's the same non. Solution. Obviously you know. If they, if they knew how to do it better, they they would. But it's so far and nothing.

Speaker 3: OK, Artemis called back.

Speaker 5: Hey, Artemis.

Speaker 7: Hi, how are you?

Speaker 5: Good, good, good to hear from you.

Speaker 7: Likewise, I just wanted to call in. And do some. Some good anti graver talk real quick.

Speaker 2: Oh, good. You're a little bit low, could. You get closer to the mic, man.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Is this better?

Speaker 2: Yeah, better. Thank you.

Speaker 7: Yeah. So are you familiar? You might have mentioned it, John Dowdy's Ultra social.

Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Been hearing about it big time.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm waiting for my topic to come in. I find something interesting and I've been talking to Jamie about this. him and I have been have been talking a lot recently and he made a good point that. You can tell Graber. And his work isn't radical at. All because you find it in. Any common bookstore? There's so much written. About and how great it? Is and all this and that, but you can't find anything. Very little is written about Ultra social. You can't find it easily. Barnes and Noble. I find that really interesting that the.

Speaker 2: Very telling, yeah.

Speaker 7: Right. That it's are. You as an anarchist, really that radical. If if it averaged put stores just more than willing to carry you than anyone's willing to just prop you up is a profit of the modern era or whatever people want to push them at, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very transparent. It's just a a racket. All these, all these various kinds of liberals just love it because he's. Is aligned with civilization. Basically, you know, the bottom line is is, you know, as Jamie points out. Yeah. And that's then you can just like it reminds me Paul Kingsnorth, and it's striking me. Yeah, you throw in the towel, you get a great big long article in the New York Times magazine. You might as well have a photo of them painting over a bag of cash, you know, to some sleeves. And it's just as it's just as bad as. This is bankrupt.

Speaker 7: Right. And I just, it's really disheartening because I'm starting to find that those the debates or the ideas found within graver, even if people are reading them, it's starting to seep into the main discourse, which is already making our discourse more difficult. You know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know. One difficulty, I mean some of this is is difficult. Because most people don't know much about anthropology, so he's telling them what they want to hear, and they don't have the anthropology to question it. Or to you know. Decide against the stuff he's citing and it's too bad. I mean, you don't want to pull rank on people. Well, you don't know any anthropology, so. Hell you. You know what I mean? You can't do that, but. At the same time, it's. There's some pretty common knowledge stuff, and he's just talking out. Of his ***.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it's just it's just so strange to me, but I did. Notice is that gaudy is ultra social, was almost is almost sold out on Amazon right now, but it says 5 copies left. We'll get more soon, which is also hoping that people are interested in reading it.

Speaker 2: Terrific. Oh, terrific.

Speaker 7: Yeah, given given how big Amazon is in, in book selling and everything else, right, to see that it's selling out, it's that's good. That's that's a good. Sign to make the call.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's it sounds like, you know, right up there with Darshan's book and just really important stuff.

Speaker 7: Yeah, so I just figured, you know, I didn't have anything profound beside there was a chachi and not a Chacha PT, but a word processor at AI that they use something similar to an MRI. I don't quite know how it works that basically it will translate your thoughts into words without you having to type them.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's been that's been an ongoing one that they keep floating. That is some great positive development and for somebody whose spinal cord has been suffered. That is a, you know, that's quite an accomplishment to be able to be somewhat functional by your thoughts being, you know, able to be translated through machinery. However, you why your spinal cord has been severed is most likely a motor vehicle accident or some such.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 5: Watching it happening and once again when we're talking about numbers, when we're talking about social good or ultra social, you know it's it's just like, yeah.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 7: Yeah. And with that, I think there was another one that like in VR or something comparable that rats can move things with their mind using a similar software, again translating thoughts of course. And then they just said the rat can't consent to that, right, every every advance we make is at the expense of something of course. But that's the part. They don't want you to see, right? You just get the end products. How? Wonderful it. Yeah, sure. Not the background.

Speaker 5: Well and and translating thoughts is not happening. We're translating information. That's all we're translating and that like these little finer points matter.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 7: Right. And cousin, I think, makes a good point that you. Know it it. Dips into the whole well, are we trying? To say, well, people. Can't have this, but you know and it gets into the interesting. Conversation of are people. Are you autonomous because you're not relying on people, but aren't you still relying on something you're just relying on the labor of others? If it's really interesting.

Speaker 5: Isn't somebody digging the lithium?

Speaker 7: Right then. Or if you're still relying on a system. Are you independent? And I guess that's an interesting discussion. But of course, as the contemptuous mentioned, you can't talk about that because then it's, oh, you're stabilised. You know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the ways of shutting stuff down.

Speaker 7: Yeah. I just.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that goes back to the contemptuous, you know? Yeah, where you know, where you can't actually discuss ideas.

Speaker 7: Yeah. And it's really unfortunate if you looked at, if you look at the comments on energy news, surprise, surprise, not a very degenerative place, but one of the.

Speaker 5: The fleecing of thought.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, props that they published that, but the well their, their whole thing topic of the week how how can you guarantee you would have no depth whatsoever you've you've tried out a new one for novel day that different theme, a different question every. I mean it's just sad.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 2: And and of course there are comments the board is. You know, it's like grade school of humor or something. You know, they have these little feuds and. And their mother's basement or something. That's just awful. But they and they strive for nothing else. I mean, it's like the people on the right, that sort of, you know, have the have the right wing audience. You know, the mega or whatever it is, you know, you get what you ask for you, what you program.

Speaker 5: Well, and you know, going back to. The first part of this show, and it's like face to face discussion, working with people, real life, you know, real life involvement and written word, the more distant and the more lead us, the more separate, the more you know non inclusive. All these kind of things. Determine that's what you get. You get to. You got your little anarchist news and you got your your podcast or whatever. Like beat your tail.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 7: Right. And what I did find interesting is that one of the contemptuous authors is it, you know, they they do speak in the plural. And one of them, whether it's one person saying they're many right or if it is, several people actually did respond to my response.

Speaker 5: Talk to the choir.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 7: Which was interesting saying that, you know. Like, hey, this is good. You know, there are things to clarify, like there's and I got the impression that they kind of had the division of Labor, some people. Wrote others is. That, I agree. I think the point whichever one it was is about like I didn't like how they were talking about trans people particularly. And they're like, yeah, I think that's a. Good point because. Whoever wrote that should clarify, and I find that interesting that again about the. Freedom of speech for the latter better term. To express within a shared piece, right? And that you know, they're obviously willing to engage, right? Because they and I were going back and forth, but anarchists, ironically, for all their conversation about freedom, don't want you to be able to talk about certain things, which is just so, so funny to me. They'll weaponize. They'll weaponize identity or political correctness. They'll they'll be inseparable from liberals. Unless you just kind of asked about the state. The way I've been joking is the only difference. You know, less liberal or a less liberal and left anarchist is 1 calls themselves an abolitionist and the other one that defund hist. And that's about where the differences end.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's.

Speaker 7: You know.

Speaker 2: And the lack of access, the lack of media to use that word, I mean, that's pretty ridiculous. You know what? Just a reminder, people can do podcasts. They can maybe a lot of anarchists live in college towns, maybe get a radio show. You know, you got to reach out to people, and that's that's immediate.

Speaker 7: Right.

Speaker 2: I mean, they're, but they're more direct, you know, interpersonal ways. But you know, we we have to have a public discourse, a conversation in society. At some point, I mean, otherwise we're why, why play this game?

Speaker 5: Well and.

Speaker 2: But we got to wind. This up, we're running out of time. Thanks for following.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. As my as yeah, as my last self plug, I just did it my own episode on uncivilized with Steve Kirk about oath and some other things. So people should check that out if they want to listen to it. Fairly decent anarchist podcast.

Speaker 2: For sure. Hey, well, be well. You know, I was just going to. Say that myself, I mean the. In fact, that was. I was wondering you. You haven't called lately and that's you got your own stuff going on. And yeah, the new podcast with the Oaks, Steve and the one before that #24 with flower bomb. Who does war zone distro. Yeah. Fantastic stuff. It's yeah. Reaching. Reaching out to the, you know, first of all, the people that are participating in this and trying to, you know, make it better.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I appreciate that. You have a great one.

Speaker 2: Take care.

Speaker 5: All right. Well, that wrapped up that. Hour pretty much.

Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I and I look forward to the 45 minutes. Of course, Genovia's next next the 23rd. And that'll be nice. I we have just a few minutes to maybe squeeze in a few things, but open the door for that and it's, I do appreciate you all who made that happen and did that conversation.

Speaker 5: Well, and and I would encourage like get the book you know, I I didn't listen. I was part of making the thing with other people and I hope it's a good. Good representation of of some of the richness of your thoughts and and the only author is not graver.

Speaker 2: We decided to go.

Speaker 5: Anyway, thank you. And we'll see you next month.

Speaker 2: Thank you, Katherine. Yeah, that's for sure. And be willing to. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1: You see yourself.

05-09-2023

[audio]

Hair-trigger violence: "Why Are Americans Shooting Strangers?" Mass shootings increase and occur in other countries. Surgeon General: a more and more lonely and isolated populace is a public health crisis. "Chatbots & the Apocalypse" by JZ. 'Godfather of VR, Geoffrey Hinton: AI might eliminate humanity itself when it controls its own codes. Has Social Media Destroyed a Generation? by Jean Twinge. Action reports. The Contemptuous' fine critique of the Left in all its guises.

Speaker 1: You've been listening to quack smack on kW VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at KWA radio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW, a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM. Right here on kwva Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: You're listening to KWVAU, Eugene. It's about 7:00 it is. Time for anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John. The number, as always, is 541-346-0645. I think we have music from Steely Dan to start with tonight. Yes, there's Steely Dan. This is from the record. Everything must go.

Speaker 3: Attention sharpens. Cancellation date.

Speaker 0: Yes, the big.

Speaker 3: It's just a few miles away. To do your shopping.

Speaker 2: At the last mall.

Speaker 3: Need the toll stars as I.

Speaker 0: And the medicine for the Blues.

Speaker 3: Sweet treats and. Surprises all the little buckets. No shopping. Sunset special. You have to do it for yourself. And the going gets tough. Check out girls. Goodbye ride the rap the three-way.

Speaker 2: The blood.

Speaker 3: To do no shopping. We've got a sweetheart, something special.

Speaker 4: You video May 9th. I've missed the last two episodes going to try to get back in the groove here. Alice had mental valve surgery, open heart surgery almost two weeks ago, but she's. Doing well then probably get discharged from the hospital tomorrow. The next day. That's been good. The recovery has been good, so Kathy will be here next week, the 16. And yeah, might as well just jump into this. One topic lately. All this hair trigger violence. For example, Washington Post article called why are Americans Shooting Strangers? In any of these cases, somebody comes to the wrong driveway or rinse the wrong doorbell or whatever, and it gets shot. There is so much anxiety and fear out there. The social fabric is fraying. You know, let's face it, that's that's just another aspect of it. And and you wonder what are the grounds for this getting better? I mean, that's kind of your bottom line question. And obviously the companion to that, I guess you might say is the. More mass shootings. And now I would say I think there's probably a consensus that it's going to get even worse. It's going to get worse and worse. Last Wednesday, 9 dead 7. Injured in Belgrade in the capital of Serbia and the following day, another mass shooting somewhere else in Serbia. They even have mass shootings until they do, until it starts. Then I think I've said before, this isn't just America, this is spreading. Yeah, it's kind of amazing. Another. Part of the said terrain and all Kentucky Derby, that's always the festive deal. The hats, the bourbon and the whole deal. Big deal. Seven resources. Lost their lives in the nine days prior to Kentucky Derby. And good. All right, Churchill Downs. And this isn't just this big attention to that big race of the year, but. They've also in California at the various tracks in California, it happens all the time. And you know they're. Called Thoroughbreds, right. There's your domestication. Monica, right there. It's it's a crime. And they they're supposed to be the fastest, so they're they're at the same time, bred to be very light. So their bones are thin. To maximize their speed and. It's just a sad crime of domestication. I don't think they. Used to talk about it that much, but either it's getting worse or finally, it's getting some notice at least. But those are amazing figures. You know the emotional landscape and new film, for example, released, I think on Friday or at least reviewed last Friday, anxious nation. Right there. It tells the tale in itself. Anxiety is an epidemic among, especially among American youth. Doesn't sound like this film has much focus or depth, though, actually, but. At least the topic. Is apt is timely. The new novel, by calling Lynette called users. Kind of more on the old anxiety beat. It's about virtual reality. Search for, meaning that kind of thing. And a warning about the future. Landscape of technology. It's funny, it's in the Sunday. Newtons review books. By Jesselyn Chan Jessamine Chan. Who identifies herself as a Gen. X Luddite. So she has taken a look. With some suspicion, of course. I mean some. Opposition to the techno future. Just today is. The New York Times piece today on the 9th from the Surgeon General. Americans have become increasingly lonely and isolated. Amounting to a health crisis and, you know, this is nothing new. That's the decline of social connection. One's on one's phone all the time. So anyway, the article goes nowhere, actually just. Councils people to reach out, to volunteer to be not so isolated. You know, if it were that simple, that's what would be happening. But it's getting worse, not better. Even though on one level the answer is obvious, but but not really. Boy, I've just got a whole lot of echo kind of stuff. I don't know how much. I'm going to. Catch up with and far as this goes, but. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just going to kind of jump around here. I do want to get into the tech stuff. With some attention for sure. And then this little chat bot thing. It's just very spooky yesterday. Peace in the time said, if some dangers posed by AI are already here, then what lies ahead? Yeah, indeed. Well, the picture is for more autonomy, this digital intelligence, so-called. It's taking over more and more and moving towards some form of autonomy. With these LM's, for example, large. Language models. It's gigantic amounts of text. And there was an announcement today. From meta. They're they haven't. They haven't figured this out. They haven't rolled it out yet, but they're working on something called image bind. Which is an AI model that links various data streams, text, audio, visual. Even temperature and velocity and stuff like that suddenly works. To create multi sensory content. So that sounds pretty metaverse like, doesn't it? Yeah, all these projects, some of which are bearing fruit. Have already. Have already come out to play and millions are already. Involved. I want to just I want to column for the weekly hasn't appeared yet, but uh. Just for a little background, very short piece here. I called it chat bots in the apocalypse. In the past few months, there's been ledge interests on settling interest in the arrival of chatbot technology. With similar position to replace most human capacities, the new artificial intelligence based machine learning chat bots beginning with ChatGPT can write essays, scripts, novels, produce art, etc. With the push of a button. Who needs humans? High tech advances in quotes are swallowing both leaps and bounds, apparently. Jobs have long been outsourced, made redundant by cheap labor elsewhere. Now, as thinking itself that is being outsourced, not the thinking itself is at work here. With algorithms and an almost unlimited amount of data information, millions of computations can draw on vast available inputs to assemble answers to many, many questions, sometimes incorrectly. It's a highly sophisticated machine operation, not actual thinking. In 1950, the mass genius Alan Turing predicted that by the year 2000 the culture would be dominated. By a resemblance to machines, not, he noted that the technology. Would have by that time evolved to human like resemblance, but that people would become more machine like. The appearance of the chat bots and their range of capacities contrasts with our decline. We have worse health, mentally and physically, physically fewer skills, less autonomy. Faced with the machine, we're losing more ground. Little wonder the new tech freaks freaks us out existential panic. Even a deeper question may be emerging. Namely, is the value or meaning of the entire symbolic. Dimension up for grams. Is it that symbolic culture maybe isn't worth so much if it can be seemingly so easily replicated? It is at the very foundation of civilization. The civilization is now crumbling on all fronts for all to see. The apocalypse is arriving in tandem with the technology that is its medium and motive force. Apocalypse is a word that announces A revealing so much, in fact, is being revealed at the same time that the dominant culture works to keep the revealing from becoming a danger to itself. We're trying to sum up some of that stuff. And this guy, Jeffrey him, he's worth mentioning. He won a Nobel Prize in 2018. For his computing. Well, from when he produced. He's he's called. Since then, the godfather of VR. He provided some foundation for that. And so he's been in the news. He quit his job at Google so he could speak freely about this. Even to the point of saying that he's LED a detrimental life, a life that was false because he contributed so much and at first, he said, well, some. If I hadn't done it, somebody else would have. Which is true, but that didn't. It wasn't satisfying to him. The fact is, he did it very centrally. So at the same time he he gets a lot of attention. Weighing the toxin on this but. Last week, he said. And we got to. You've got to control this before it's totally. Out of hand. Which could even involve threatening humanity itself. If AI. Completes its course of writing and running its own code. That's the autonomy bit, of course. And then he says. But there's no way to stop or even pause this AI trajectory. I mean, how do you control it if? You can't even. Slow it down. What? What's the? You know the answer is simple. I mean you've you've got to be a Luddite. You can't just talk this hot air about controlling it when you're the other side of your mouth admits. But it's the autonomy is already there in in so many ways. I mean, in other words, the it's autonomous technology. You know. There it goes. And meanwhile, there's this film and TV writers strike the Writers Guild in in Hollywood. And then you run into it already. I mean, if the chat bots can do the scripts. What? What good are they? I. Mean what? Why should they? Good period of living wage or whatever I. Mean. You know, it's these things are have practical. Impacts already, definitely. And by the way, ChatGPT. Which is. I mean this. Kind of thing requires staggering amounts of water. I may see a Riverside study. Thank you, RC on this one. And it's different over the years by billions of people, and it's just. You know the others. The underside of this. It's the same thing with. Cryptocurrency or any of these high tech things. It ain't cheap. It don't come free. Not even close. And the other side of it, which I just referred to is. Is of staggering importance. But then you get the practical. Reality of it as well the the old nuts and bolts part of it. But and you get the other people that are just fine with it. They're just fine. It's. Well, last Tuesday in the New York Times. There was a piece called Adair for art students and embraced the machines. Art professor Larry Wyler at Columbia. Said AI generated arm is just fine, it's just another facet of creativity. Let's face it, he said. There's no choice. You got no choice. Are you going to put it back in the bottle? So embrace the machines. Yeah. It's all over in that sense. And of course, there'll be people. Like that? Who? You know, they don't have. A problem? They've they've copped out all their lives, and now they're they're they're changing their. Deal now. And along those lines, also last week, another New York Times piece by someone who identifies as π. My emotional support chat bot and this is. You know, conceivably. Even worse, very insidious. It's very deeply invasive, I might say. Then spinning out these manufactured answers or products. When it gets down into the heart, my emotional support chat bot. Those 4 words are. Yeah, you have melded with the machine. And the. Very important piece, getting some notice to my gene twinge has social media destroyed a generation? Get back to the youth. What do you think the answer to that is? This is from. Last month, but. The review of a novel called death of an author. It's a learning history, but you know saying this is the same old. Topic really death of an author by Abin Marcin. It's about 3 chatbot programs where author and AI become one. And it's just exactly what's happening, isn't it? You know, in the backdrop of it, I mean there's there are sort of rivals going on, I mean the. All his layoffs in the tech industry and the disinterest in the metaverse that's not getting off the ground. And then it's hitting meta the corporation. UM. You know, it's it just has all of these flaws. To put it mildly. And this gigantic SpaceX to the Tesla outfit SpaceX. Launching the Starship about 10 days ago. The biggest rocket ever. Well, it blew up about two minutes into the flight. Yeah, this is about 10 days ago I think. And you had the biggest one ever with the most pollution, the biggest fallout, the biggest rupture there in the Texas desert. Pretty ugly stuff, but we only got to pay the price. To do more and more ugly stupid things. Yeah, the Starship of trying to this is, but they know the names recede. They kind of comes out of focus where early on already while they're trying to assess the impact of the explosion. On the earth and in the local communities, etc. On wildlife. I wonder how much that's going to really. Be taken seriously if it hasn't already been forgotten. The particular emissions spread far beyond the expected debris field. Not to mention the blast of itself well. And all these things. And then you have the Japanese spacecraft orbiting the moon, which crashed two weeks ago. That was. Another big flop over there. Right about the same day, a critical antenna is jammed on a Jupiter bound. Launched by the European Space Agency. Another fail on that one. Well, with social media. Blue Sky's the new social site, kind of like Twitter, I guess. When they're trying to make these, they're always there's always. The idea to make things more participatory, you can get. You can keep the racket going if you get people to be involved. More and more on their own, or at least somewhat on their own. It's not doesn't take place in a vacuuming. People are conditioned and being engineered to do this stuff. But. This blue sky plans to be a decentralized system. And people will may eventually be able to build their own apps and communities without it. But wasn't that the premise of social media in the first place? Which somehow went horribly wrong. Doing it, I mean connect with your friends, your family. This is going to be very cool and and enabling and connecting and everything. That's not what's happened. I mean, is this kind of an interlogic there, I'm afraid. But they are trying to get this one off the ground. Boy, I don't know. I may have to try to come back to this after the break. You know, we're not at the break yet, but I I'm really. Straining at the bed here to. And some other things that are maybe more salutary, let's hope. I want to. Mention plant anarchy. New book by Sasha Engel. This is really amazing stuff. Plant anarchy. It's kind of literally the the idea of the book and it it it made me think somewhat of spelled the sensuous by David Abram. And it's hard to kind of grasp or sum up. It really contributes a lot in my opinion and it's more or less the idea that plants may be the real model. Not the symbolic, and he's deepening even his critique of language symbolism. I would say, calling the Mazing book. Anyway, plants as. In their own right as a community, as as a means of communication among themselves as a variety, and then some people have kind of leveled at this a little bit. How plants and trees and so forth are connected. More than we knew and. Yeah. So he's trying to shift this over. Into this other dimension in terms of. I want the same model exactly but something like that for anarchy. And another real bright spot, know if you've run across that. Some of you may. Have can you can number one from the contemptuous sounds like rotten. And this is a full on in depth critique of the left. We've had that to some degree, but this is. Very serious and encompassing look at it. The varieties of ways that. We can succumb to the left. You know these the ties that are still there and. Holding us back, I think it's it's extremely important. There is minimum a minimum of dialogue over it. Anarchistnews.org very slight. They they prefer the trivial. With their. Topic of the week kind of stuff. You know, just random stuff that keep floating that out there a different one every week. It's and stuff goes nowhere, really. There needs to be more and. That's been already provided in a good way, very timely on target way by Artemis already, who is responded. Very carefully to clarify, he doesn't disagree with it very much, but there is some things that he wants to try to shed light on in this text that's communicate from the contemptuous and it really adds to the whole discussion. It's it's really I think it's not too hard to find. It's really worthwhile. This is a very important step forward, I would say. We had such a disappointing reaction. I wasn't the only one to the new 5th estate. Which is another. Anarchist review of books format. Pretty much all reviews but. Very disappointing and. They sure needed a dose of the contemptuous this. In depth. Could take over view of the left and how it operates. In all of its negative ways. Yeah, somebody didn't get the memo at at 50 state, which is to say kind of no one got the memo over there and. Yeah, let's going backward. Not exactly the answer, but some people are going forward. Sasha angle and. Contemptuous folks, there is a group of some number I they're not. They're not revealing who they are. And and Artemis. Really important stuff, maybe this seems once that spring is going to. Have even more. Love the efforts and advances. Not the technology advances. Well, let's see. When we when we take a break here, yeah. Or is it car crash?

Speaker 2: Lander, this sounds bealeton.

Speaker 4: Bolton, thank you.

Speaker 0: Take care.

Speaker 4: That was builtin cost meetings back in the day and I had an excellent visit from Cliff over the weekend. It's really, really cool to see him again. I keep trying to get him. Behind the mic. Again, we had some great shows together. Also we had a great conversation not in person, but with one morning, Rashid high school kid in Chicago. Yeah, very talented kid Visa vis music and film. And that was really nice. That was another encouraging thing. Well, yeah, all the lines of. People that are trying stuff, there's. A brand new issue of Earth first. One or 2023 didn't quite make it in time to still be in winter season, but maybe they're making a big comeback. I don't know. There's 82 page journal anyway. And yeah, a lot of interesting stuff in it. One thing that I paid attention to, it's called the frontline response to Andreas. Mom Long wrote how to blow up a pipeline. So we've got a fairly long review in here by Madeline Fitch. And it's kind of funny, it's kind of. You know, Mom makes the case for systematic sabotage. And so forth. But he he sort of discounts what other people have done before him or before now that is. And that didn't sit well with theirs. First, folks, in other words, the thing in the reviews, what about us? What about us, you know? He kind of passes over that like, you know, not much happened. I mean, there, there were all these sporadic things. It's all painted out and. You know it's it's failed. The answer is, you know, the reviewers is, well, not true. You know, we're still at it, and it's wonderful and everything, more or less. I'm fudging it a little, maybe, but it takes issue with some stuff, some things that are left out. But mostly it's kind of a cranky. What about Earth first, you know, we're so important. I don't know. I don't want to overdo that point, but. At the same. Time it does, they do validate the importance of this book. Which is now film. And that the the book tries to somehow get to the mainstream folks who never. Really thought about doing the. Actual you know. Targeted damage. And so you know, it ends on a nice note. Overall, I mean it's it's. The reviewer is wondering why the older first people that that she knows are really so mad about the so post to the book. But that's only on one level, I mean. They they didn't get their duty, apparently, but. And he, you know, long in the book, he makes the point about. Deep green resistance. You know which is treated as a nasty little clique as turf and bizarre authoritarian. Approach that made them a joke or a pariah to to people who are. Actually, in the fight to defend nature but. That's. Yeah, that's the that's the bogus and went nowhere. But uh. You know that doesn't cover everything either. I mean, they they do try to bring out the continuing struggle. And you know, they they make one point they. Kind of disagreed with, you know. Mom says, well, what happened? All this great stuff. The late 90s early 2010 with the anti globalization movement in Seattle and all that stuff they take issue with long saying it just petered out. And they point out that 911 happened. It didn't just Peter out, it was. It was a severe climate of repression that set in. After 911, which is true, but you know I have to say and I've kind of regret having to say this in a way, but. It was, it was petering out before 9/11. And here in Eugene anyway. And it really was, I mean it it kind of stalled and. So, you know, kind of hate to admit that because it's if you know, we get this big wave of repression, well, we'd still be carrying on if it weren't for that, well, probably not. And there were other places where they didn't have a big 911 climate of repression sitting in right away, and it petered out there too. So, you know, you got to, I don't know, it's. It's worth examining, you know, examining the record and. Things it's it's funny how things. Peter out at times, you know the climate changes and. It's it's somewhat of a surprise, just like the other is a surprise. The the reverse is a surprise. It's always struck me that. Saying the moving of the 60s really came out of nowhere. It really did. There was no economic collapse or anything. Nothing like it actually was an expanding economy for that matter. How did that come about? No one knows. A very nice surprise that was pretty lovely for a while. Pretty interesting for a while. And you know, again the other is true too. Why do things just sort of fade out? And that's an. Over generalization anyway. I mean they're always. Things to some degree still happening. But anyway. You get the point. Well, let's see what's going on right now is the interesting piece in the Guardian. Late last week, schools and universities across Europe. Have been shut down in a wave of student occupations in this long. Deal protesting inaction about the climate crisis and Jim, I'm indebted for this. I had no idea. This is news put out by the National Iranian American Council. And they detail. Some of the resistance to. Islamic fascism in Iran, of course. That's been to the floor the the big crackdown. Against women who don't want to be covered, and the resistance, the amazing resistance by women. Well, they point out, for example, that on April 26th an Iranian cleric in Tehran was hit by a car. On the 29th, 2 clerics. Were engined in a car crash and the standing. And on the 30th, the chief of the Saravan police. Was killed. These are obviously the active agents of repression. And they. Got some retribution. Well, I've got stuff that goes way back into March, which I didn't get to use because I missed the last two episodes, but I'm not going to go way. Back, but I just mentioned some of this stuff from this the April 5 in Athens. In the Zografou district, anarchist's been a very big. Daylight looting of the supermarket and. Distribution of stuff. To the neighborhood. And I also April 5th. This was in Atlanta. Set fire to three excavators owned by Brent Scarborough Company on his side across from the federal penitentiary in Atlanta. They are. That outfit is responsible for clear cutting the Melanee Forest in Atlanta. We are not done here. Torture, Gita lives, Willani lives. Cup City will never be built. And on April 6th, I'm not going to go deep deep today and take too long, but in the pause.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 4: In the the major city in Baja. Four half liter bottles for the gasoline were placed on. One of the front wheels of the policeman. Simple Activation System matches title one in. Yeah, at least then. Down there. 10th of April we strike a blow against the local parliament building in Bandung, West Java. This is. The capital of Indonesia. Armed with propane bomb and mountains, who managed to destroy each part of the building, the Parliament building our major. And in April 15th, over 100 animal rights activists. They disrupted the Grand National, the big racetrack. The boost ways tried to stop that. That was the national running of the national. Because the delay anyway. And there too. Two horses at least died on the day of the running, and those folks are trying to ban that sort of thing these weird races. And another thing in exact Thia, in Athens end of the month on the 29th this is posted on. The 29th a little. And this compilation of attacks there. Trying to stop the investments, the development in the neighborhood of Exarchia. Yeah, all kinds of breaking doors, facades, windows, cameras at hotels and Airbnbs. Quite a quite a nice list of resistance there. Front page of Sunday New York Times, April 30th. About the landless workers movement in northeast Brazil. Unless there are at least 460,000 squatters. All of the guys, roughly Speaking of the landless workers movement. Squatting unused land, owned by the rich. At least 460,000 and many more supporters. And I made a. Good old mayday. The stuff fighting against the raising of the. Age that people have to keep working, they're bumping that up by two years. It's. Apparently going through it, but anyway on there's a big black block action. And actually, violence century continent as usual, saying as many hundreds of cops were injured in Paris, buildings burned. Good stuff. Just we need to be reminded, remind ourselves that resistance is alive. Some good stuff going on. Another thing that I don't think about necessarily too much in terms of the way things are going, but. Turbulence get on an airplane. And that is the the number of cases. Severe turbulence. Causing injuries that's seems to be. Southwest Airlines in the US here. They had to cancel 17,000 flights. Because of 1 incident. The the Feds closed them down. Getting to be pretty dangerous, I suppose that's getting worse. This is another option of climbing overheating you get. Not only the crazy weather. But all the rest of it, including frankenfish, this is the journal Science. The magazine science finished genetically engineered to glow blue. Green or red under black light. Have been a big hit among aquarium lovers for years. Yeah, just another weird. Domestication case. Well, there it's kind of growing the. They've escaped these fish farms. In Brazil essentially. And now this transgenic. Is getting a foothold in nature. This is a weird thing. Fluorescence allowing genes from the escapees from the fish farm. Could really mess with native fish. Thank you Artemis for that one. Let me get back and squeeze this and get back to some of the eco stuff because it's. Pretty amazing from regarding April 17th, the UK has lost 40 million birds since 1970. And here, as the holes lost six. 100 million birds. Since 1980. Where is that bird song in a spring morning? You know, heard about the insect Armageddon and now it's birds. In this country. Why are dead birds falling from the sky? And this was uh. April 30th article. Has to do with the H5N1 avian flu strain. And yeah, this global devastation. And that part of it? Is global. And they're talking about the US in particular in this piece, but. We're only worried about the spread to humans. The whole part of that. And I want to mention again the Ultra social book John Gaddy's latest book, Ultra Social, the evolution of Human nature. And Boren has written a very nice thing, Bjorn and Alaska. He's up there in horror, I believe. And I just I did mention this before, but I just want to quote just a little bit from Bjorn. Bounty argues that rather than environmental destruction and extreme inequality being due to human nature, they are the results of. The adoption of agriculture from our our ancestors seemingly currently has become an ultra social superorganism. Similar to an Ant or termite colony with the requirements of Subaru Organism taking precedence over the individuals within it, human society is now an autonomous, highly integrated network of technologies. Institutions and belief systems dedicated to the expansion of economic production. And God explains the question, can we forge a better, more egalitarian, sustainable future by changing the socioeconomic and ultimately destructive path? And that makes me think of the interview that was just conducted by. Catherine and others. Or two days ago, and I think it's going to, I think we're going to play it two weeks from now. I've heard the recording. I know that there is a recording because I've heard part of it. Probably that showed the 23rd 45 minutes. Really worth it. With Darshan Novias, a wonderful book right in line, it seems to me with the gaudy book in terms of what is social, what is community. What are the? Possibilities that once existed and may exist again. We'll see. Well, the rain is just today. About 1,000,000 acres have burned in Western Canada. Alberta especially. And the other fluctuation the other. One might say over 400 dead in catastrophic. Flooding in the Democratic Republic of Congo, flooding and landslides. And back on the 26th, Southern California's first wildfire of the season. San Bernardino Forest, not gigantic, 130 acres. Yeah, we're getting underway. And on these significant fluctuations. Is kind of an overview thing. This is a study that pointed out that. Climate change. She's an old euphemism, has made droughts of the severity of 1 currently experienced by East Africa at least 100 times as likely as their as they were in the pre industrial era. Droughts, global overheating. These things are a function of industrialism. And religiously hot weather becoming more common. This is the University of Bristol study. Sudden spikes. This is from the journal Nature Communications. We're going to get these very. Bad heat spikes, severe killing spikes. Ultra high temperatures. Tory authorities back on the 22nd. Warned residents across large swaths of Thailand, including the capital Bangkok, to avoid going outside. During extreme heat. Record-breaking temperatures. And let's see, I think it was. Oh yeah, well. Time and. 2.4 million people have sought treatment for health problems linked to air pollution. It always happens in this so-called haze season in the spring, but it's it's way worse this time. Yeah, and. In Europe. Just found out that. Spain in April. The month ended with the hottest, driest. Since they've been counting in Spain and they it was record heat earlier and the whole month has been pretty terrible. Much closer to home, this was. Eight days ago, I think it was last Monday. It would have been about the 70 car and truck pile up. In the middle of Illinois. These things? Yeah, this stupid thing that happens quite a lot. Well, the amount of. Force here was a dust storm. Best one is this the scenario or? That's nothing new. I mean, you talk about the the best bowl of authorities. That's a function of plowing. You shred the topsoil, blows away, it can blow away. It has blown away. We've lost a huge amount of topsoil. So yeah, it's it's. Not only. Driving. But what's behind it? What sets the stage for that? Temperatures in the world's oceans have broken records. This is from the end of the month. Partly from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. But lots of other studies, and you're talking about the old mania that's going to happen. That's the warming thing. Not to go off into that, but. In general. Oceans are getting hotter. Which means more hurricanes in the Gulf, which the water there is already hot. But this is a global thing. The oceans of the world. And the Greenland and. Antarctic ice sheets are now losing more than three times as much ice a year as they were 30 years ago. That's just more the same. We're the same. Well, I wanted to mention something here, Carl. I hope you can help me out with this. What do you think of the national?

Speaker 2: The band I am not super familiar with them, although one of the brothers is like a a composer of some kind like a like a. He's a more serious musician and I've heard some of his stuff that I like.

Speaker 4: Ah, what's this? Well, it's this long piece I didn't know.

Speaker 2: Rice, rice.

Speaker 4: Anything about it, but long piece in the current issue of The New Yorker. Called sad dads. And how it's like they use this terminology called soft grief. And you're saying, isn't this, you know, the 90s or it sounds like it's more than that.

Speaker 2: Dad rock is that. Is that sad? Dad rock. Wilco. Was Wilco in that? In that article too?

Speaker 4: Dan Sandan rock. I think there are two. Sets of broke. Oh yeah, I think so. You've been around a.

Speaker 2: Long time, yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah, this is. Subtitle is how the national captures the only magnificent lives of adults.

Speaker 2: Ohh, I bet. Who said who wrote the article?

Speaker 4: And then the petrissage.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's the whole thing about on the, you know, on the motif. Of learning and. How bad things are getting and their struggles because they've been around a long time. This is quite a long article.

Speaker 2: I'll have to check. It out. I'm I I piqued my interest in that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, mine too. I'm going to. They're listening to some.

Speaker 2: Of it, I'm a fan of. Sad rock. When they went for the Happy Rock. You look for my show coming up at 8:00.

Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. At 8:00 today too.

Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't really call it happy. But it'll it'll it'll. It'll put the inner piece in you.

Speaker 4: Yes, that's the serenity. Some of that stuff.

Speaker 2: Give you some of that sweet, sweet serenity.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's for sure. I'm kind of I'm kind of slowing down here. And trying to figure out. I'll just mention one more thing and then I can hang it up here and. We can go out with some music. Two days ago, in the Sunday New York Times, Nicholas Kristoff, The Oregonian guy who's one of the central op-ed. Guys, that's the New York Times. Running about. The phenomenon of chronic physical pain. To the point of of 50 million Americans are in chronic physical pain and staying it in with the basic dysfunction in society. Despair. Once again, I hate to keep trotting out every every second here, but. Yeah, it it's not just. Work and so forth. I mean, everybody has a bad back who does much physical work and that's that's fairly new, that sort of thing, but. It's also something deeper, maybe like the mass shootings, the pain of of this kind of world. And a companion piece also in the same Sunday Times by Hugh Green, called. How miserable are we supposed to be? I mean, wow, the immiseration of the the depression. It's it's a. It's just illegal. You know the topic and maybe will be unavoidable when helps is some moves toward. Fixing all labs, changing all that. Well, thanks for. Listening. It's nice to be back. It's good to be back with Carl and next week with Kathleen too. Take care.

Speaker 0: By the way.

Speaker 5: What is going on?

Speaker 0: With you here? No.

Speaker 5: It's not what has this stuff gone here. We're hockey night in Canada and we're talking about saving the world and all that stuff. Let's talk hockey.

Speaker 3: Well, that's the whole idea behind December the 25th.

Speaker 5: Let's talk about some good guys. Let's talk about the troops.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 3: Dear Ron McLean. Coaches corner I'm right in order. For someone to explain. To manage the distinction between these mandatory breaking properties of submission, specifically the function, the ritual search in conjunction.

04-18-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Rewilding and resistance theme. Unending wave of mass shootings, anywhere, everywhere. Is 'undiagnosed mental illness' the key? Millions are messed up in a fundamentally wrong world. Discussion with Artxmis. Insane weather. "Social Media Is Doomed to Die." Chatbots march on, replicating symbolic culture. Announcements. One call. No broadcast next week.

Speaker 1: You're listening to KWVA, Eugene. It is 7:00 and time for anarchy radio here in the studio with John and Catherine. Today, the number is 541-346-0645 and we have music to start off our show from teen generate.

Speaker 0: So let's get. Ohh man. Like that. I touch you. Thank you. He went for.

Speaker 2: And generate some fairly early garage park by request. April 18th, 19 radio. Hi, cancelled. Hey, John. Good to be here. Swim down, anouncement. There won't be an anarchy radio. I hope you're figuring out the right channel, by the way, to catch the show tonight. But there won't be an April 25th Anarchy Radio. Alice is having surgery the day before, so I plan on being back May 2nd. Yeah, I didn't want to stick in a word about the mass shootings. Anywhere. Everywhere. How about the Sweet 16 birthday party Saturday night in a quiet, rural small town in Alabama today in Maine? I mean, you just can't count. And my but my favorite. Thing that pops out about that is the my favorite brand of denial and what accounts for all this. Undiagnosed mental illness. Think about it. Around half the population is on antidepressants, right? Something like. That so how many millions are on meds? Or? And that's somewhat diagnosed. So in other words?

Speaker 3: At least.

Speaker 2: It it explains nothing. I mean virtually everyone, then you know. Never mind the undiagnosed, I mean, it's just. Yeah, that explains something, doesn't it? Or possibly absolutely nothing. It's one of the most stupid ways of looking at.

Speaker 3: It well, I want to take us in a different direction at the moment because because that that is a topic that certainly. Certainly more than a topic. It's as we said, it's not only daily, but it's multiple episodes day that that are being reported upon and and and and no discussion of any substance at all. I'll start with a joke because I I'm looking to. Get some callers tonight. It's time you know people need to be talking to each other. Talk and call in 541-346-0645. So I'll start with a joke, a little lighthearted and then maybe we can get into some some more serious. Stuff. What? What do you think, John? What's the difference between a grave robber and an anthropologist?

Speaker 2: I give up pH. D.

Speaker 3: So that that actually came from a friend I know who works with the tribes. Did some some kind of years ago and that was that was a joke amongst the in crowd anyway. So. So what my notes in the middle of the night that came to me. Is that we need to be talking about resistance. What does it look like? And is the rewilding resistance and I believe one of the authors and one of the articles in the final journal, #5 gave credit to people from Portland alleging that. Rewilding is resistance. And so I think I think that's a pertinent question. I think there are a lot of pertinent questions and and what the is rewilding resistance, I'll go to with civilization, inevitably collapse. Can technology be utilized as neutral and instrumented tool? For this. Maps is the machine, basically a dependent, addictive and morally destructive force? What should should that Marco Primitiveness? Or how does AP theory address resistance in nation State conflicts, war in traumas of nation, state, civilization. Collapse, famine, hunger, care of each other. Long term survival of planet and species. Resistance, nurturing, relationship. Those were my general and what provoked this? Midnight thoughts. Midnight dreaming. I was a wonderful article sent. Sent to me by friends from the LA Times. And I don't have a date on it. It's pretty recent. It was a column Silicon Valley elites are afraid. History says they should be. And and it was a very motivating article on on what is to me brings up the question, what is resistance that many people have forgotten? Like a a clearer way of of talking about it. So I have extensive quoting from this article. Basically in the last several weeks there's been, you know, congressional hearings, the stock valuations, the cryptocurrency banks, you know, everything shaky. And the pool of silicon leads are crying about this tech flash. They call it this. This hatred of of the tech masters. Mike Salona, vice president at Peter Thiel's founder fund, wrote on his blog that Tech is now universally hated. Warned of an incoming political war and claimed a lot of people genuinely seem to want a good old fashioned mass murder, presumably of tech execs. If only they related to just how good they have it historically speaking, and these are quotes from this opinion piece, it was mere decades ago, after all, the the Silicon Valley elite faced the active threat of actual non metaphorical violence the most. Critics, critics of big tech of the 70s didn't write strongly worded columns, chastising them in newspapers or blast their politics on social media. They physically occupied their computer labs, destroyed their capital equipment, and even bombed their homes. Tech lash is what Silicon Valley's ownership class calls it. When people don't buy their stock, said Malcolm. Harris tells me today's tech billionaires are lucky people are making fun of them on the Internet instead of fire bombing their houses. That's what happened to Bill Hewlett. Back in. Day. Then there's a lovely leaflet reprinted from a photocopy of the leaflet, was how to destroy an empire, a manifesto and map drawn by student radicals to promote their occupation of the Stanford Research in Institute. 1987 article in this newspaper makes this point that does the LA Times. When William Hewlett retired from the company he founded, the Times dedicated a full paragraph to the various threats of violence that the billionaire faced in the 70s. Quote in 1971, radical animosities directed at the UP upscale Palo Alto community in Stanford University campus brought terror into the Hewlett's lives. The modest Hewlett family home was fire bombed in 1976. Saint James, then 28. Thought off would be kidnappers the same year of radical group called the Red Guerrilla Family claimed responsibility when a bomb exploded in an HP building. Harris is the author of quote this the book Palo Alto, A history of California capitalism in the world. The book that is currently the talk of the town, it just hit the LA Times bestseller list, but not for the reasons that the valley elites might prefer. It's a robust, sprawling history that's intensely critical of the great men of tech history, and even more so of the systems they served. It's been received. Enthusiastically as an overdue corrective to the industry's potent penchant for self anthology. And some of the most potent mythologies, of course, rely on our mission. Take, for instance, the popular narrative that his kids, such as Hewlett and Steve Jobs, started the computer revolutions from their garages in Palo Alto, where their starkest opposition. In the form of square, old corporations such as IBM and Xerox, and not actually actual bomb throwing revolutionaries. Harris work reminds us that this was far from the case. There was a moment far more organized, far more militant and far more sharply opposed to the big tech companies of the day than anything we've seen in the last 10 years. And it's not even close when we think of the 60s. In California, we think of disparate, disparate panoramic happenings in an explosive. The war in Vietnam, the rise of the computer, the student protest movement and so on. But Harris argues that the computer revolution didn't simply coexist with the war it fueled it. These developments weren't just connected. They were the same thing. Anyway, I think I've hit some of the highlights of that and then just from the local local papers, I wanted to to go beyond Silicon Valley into more just general resistance. 416 New York Times talks about how transgender issues became the new rallying cry for the right, and it generally the whole whole discussion. Starts out talking about how the constitutional right to same sex marriage nearly eight years ago set social conservatives adrift. And and and. The whole acceptance and normalization, appropriation, whatever of gay rights movement into. Constitutional right? The. The right. Wing or the? Conservatives, whatever now transgender issues attacking transgender kind of thing. It's been become their substitute. Substitute field of war resistance or attack and. Resistance, I think. We need to point out, certainly within some of our listening audience, they remember the time, early time of AIDS, HIV and AIDS and act up the. Aids coalition to Unleash Power Direct action in the late 1980s to address the HIV crisis that was killing so many people and and the the actions that were that they were taking things like storming the National Institute of. Health besieging the CDC, blocking entrances to tunnels in New York City office. Takeovers, disruption of speeches, office occupations, disrupting events, lockdowns of government offices. These were just a few, you know, just to remind people. What does resistance look like in in some specific cases? And then as a last piece on just like? Wide angle lens. What does resistance look like? Article in 416 New York Times. Sticky fingers 327 shoplifters 6000 arrests whole whole article about shoplifters. Nice little picture of. A worker in the Bronx story says shoplifters covet baby formula and cleaning items. So just let the resistance aparty sometimes means you appropriate you book, you take, you know, kind of thing. So there's a theoretical point of discussion. We welcome calls on any and all of the topics. I I think it's really, really important that that. That people start now in the present day on a daily kind of urgent. Kind of. Kind of. There's a call for a little reflection on what does resistance look like? What forms does it take it and, you know, get get get on the gate.

Speaker 2: Bottom line, why don't you last week, how much? Attention has been paid to. How to blow up a pipeline? The book and the movie. Now there's a movie and interesting that it is seriously discussed. For the first time in in the recent years, anyway, that this isn't given the fact that everything else has failed, you might as well actually do something, and in this past week even more written about it, so it's kind. Not just a blip, they'll possibly just a. Blip, but I mean. Something is shifting a little bit there that they would, you know, talk about this in a serious vein.

Speaker 3: And even have have movies that get. Reviewed on it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, discussed Corona lot. I wish we brought this poster along, by the way, to show you it doesn't work for any of. My friend Bjorn in Alaska, who's down here recently, his parents were hippie homesteaders in Alaska. Anyway, this poster has been preserved and he sent it to me. It's going to go into the archive big poster. Basically it says join the Stone Age and save the world 1971. Anything like you were saying? I mean, there's there's been. There's always been some opposition, some kind of radical. Displeasure with things, but kind of nice to know.

Speaker 3: And that I mean that poster does kind of date back to the 70s, the whole Earth catalog and the the two, two-part. The two different directions that were advocated in that catalog, and one was the people who loved computers and science and technology. I got to wrap this up real quick. We got phone call technology and then the others who were joining the Stone Age, you know, get, get, get back to the basics.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're. Right. Somebody there.

Speaker 1: Yeah, we have Artemis, Artemis.

Speaker 2: On this I was just talking about you.

Speaker 4: How is it going?

Speaker 3: Is going with you.

Speaker 4: Well, you know it's it's alright. I wanted to respond partially to your, you know, your questioning opening up the idea of resistance but. I also had. A joke for you?

Speaker 3: Go ahead, shoot.

Speaker 4: So you know how when some birds fly, they fly in the in the in the Z shape, right? And then that sometimes it's longer on one side, on the other. Do you know why?

Speaker 3: No idea.

Speaker 4: There's more birds on that side.

Speaker 2: That was worse than her job.

Speaker 4: I have to say I like. I like yours because I I work with an indigenous group and I and the leader of it, who? Who's on my, who's been on my podcast before? Malasi. He's a good friend. He he points. Out it's like, why is it that? You know Europeans. To him, anthropology is always going to be colonial. It's like it only took them until recently to start voluntarily digging up their own bones. But they have no issue digging up hours.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. For sure.

Speaker 4: And of course the you know, and the Egypt and you know, things from both Africa and and the so-called Middle East. Some people say the only reason the pyramids aren't moved out of Egypt is they're too, too heavy to move, you know.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: Or from another quick set before I move on to my point is I believe it was the Swiss. Stole a bunch of items from Germany in like the in the in the Protestant Classic War that the 50 years war and recently the Swiss were like or the Germans are like can we get that back? And the EU said no because they realized, well, they say you have to give it back that everyone's going to want their stuff back. That's not from your. You know the application of that. So on resistance, I think those are really important questions is fundamentally, do you think civilization will collapse on its own? Because if you say yes, then it just so it's so easy to be. Well, I don't have to do anything. It's not my problem.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Wow.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it collapses then just to passive collapses, just waiting for the happy day.

Speaker 3: Yep, Yep.

Speaker 4: Right. And I think there's been a lot more discussion between the Kirk about Steve Kirk about this and just the idea that it's like collapsed is actually quite beneficial because. To civilization, because what doesn't kill it makes it stronger, right? So any crisis improves itself from, like, look at the 60s, look at Occupy, how it can.

Speaker 3: Appropriate. You're gonna be? Yep. Yep. Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 4: Yeah, similarly, all the resistance appropriated, right. You know, it's it's really idea the idea when you get sick and your body can later resist those things better. It's the same idea. Right, which I think makes resistance difficult because we've seen so many different avenues fail, and that's a great reason. AP, AP thought rejects leftism because it's a well, it hasn't worked, right. Or at times it's beneficial to the system. But I think on the other end of that, too many primitivists are scared. Of seeming like leftists, so we avoid all organization and all. All. All ideas that resemble organization are all anything that could resemble leftism. You know which I understand.

Speaker 3: Well, and you know and. Uh, you know I would. I'm not limiting this to AP people. I I would say that the love of technology, the use, the, the the thing like you have to, you have to do that. You can't function without the reliance or the a critical it's just the. Tool kind of thing rather than understanding. Maybe it's actually it's a a field of war, right? It's it's.

Speaker 0: Right, right.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's not something. It's not just a tool. It. It's like it's what's the future? It's what's going to colonize the moon and.

Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have to be.

Speaker 3: And extract the resources from the like it's a present day, but yesterday a picture of of odd things in the sky where spiral appears in the Northern Lights and. That it's *** **** rocket fuel burning off of 1 of Musks rockets up there. So. So this stuff isn't theoretical, this is the world people are living in and saying, oh, you know, you know. Oh. Oh me. Oh my.

Speaker 2: It's collapsing domination, though. Has as you referred to. It's so flexible it cops almost everything. That's why you know that drives the deeper critique. You know, the deeper questioning. Otherwise you do end up strengthening the system. It it learns from partial opposition. Which, you know, it doesn't go far enough it it then it is more armored, you know, because it's it's survived that.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 2: And learn from that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I know the idea that it's not just primitivists in that, you know, there's a deeper critique of technology. It's one of the many European guerrilla groups that formed. It might have been red front or one of those. It's interesting because they had communiques. I want to say with red front, they had communiques that, you know, computers are the technology. Of the bourgeois. And that they went and destroyed computers. And computer manufacturers cause you saw it. They're like, oh, all it's going to do is aid the bureaucratization, imperialism. They saw it as, like, a front for American imperialism and the West.

Speaker 3: Well, that that was that was true on college campuses in the 70s where the the building of computer labs and all of that, those were being bombed, you know. And and that. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Right. And so it's interesting to see that leftists weren't always so opposed to technology, but now you do it and they think you're you're worse than Hitler, right? Because they're going to do the norm Chomsky thing is. Oh, well, then you're saying you want to genocide 8 billion people, which cuts all discussion. They're not willing to hear a critique because as soon as they say you want to genocide or any of the other at homonyms.

Speaker 3: You know it was.

Speaker 4: It just throws at any discussion because anyone that now wants to talk with you is. Now complicit, right?

Speaker 2: Well, I'm. I'm not so sure the actual genocide is going on right now. I mean, Chomsky can, you know, give off his unhealthy projections about to.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 2: What some people are up to, he has no idea. But you know, I I don't think that's very, very cogent or very powerful anymore to point to some unknown genocide when the real one is showing itself more and more every single day.

Speaker 3: And it's not limited to the human species. Just like them. It was. And you know, napalm of of Vietnam and what that did to the forest and all all of that, you know that that's that's a good point. I mean that that's him kind of thing came those same kind of securities.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 3: Hide your neck in the sand. Discussions about oh, you know, you can't do that kind of stuff. It is just it. Is it like, what is happening now? The genocide happens right now.

Speaker 2: Along the lines of your questions, Catherine. I got a very interesting phone call the other day from Flower Bomb and I'm racking my mind. I have been pretty distracted lately. Flower bomb. I know who that is and I and I'm talking, but I don't know who it is right away. Well, he's he's the person who started war zone distro and we had a really good conversation. He he sees a renewal afoot when he has seen, like, a lot of other people too, that, you know, after the thing that was going on, so-called the. Anti Globalization movement 2025 years ago. That faded out and the left lefty stuff came back in and people in Europe have. I've heard that quite a lot. You know, that kind of filled the vacuum. We took this backward step into, you know, kind of plotting leftist kind of stuff again. Well, he's saying that's turned. Now that's not happening so much anymore. There is a renewal of foot, so he's it was very good to hear that. I mean, to hear that optimistic read. But yeah, he's in the mid Midwest here in this country and he's. You know, not, you know, firmly optimistic or not or or the other way either, but you know, he's just kind of reporting on that. That's what he's saying that that after this slump, now it's taking a better turn toward a more radical thing.

Speaker 4: I actually just. I actually just had flower bomb on the podcast. Actually, we talked on some of that stuff. Really. I thought that war. Yeah. War zone being kind of this. I'll use the larger term like post left. Anarchism is like international like they. See it, it's. The fact that people from Europe or other continents or like your stuff is awesome, we have it out here. But we didn't have it before. You know the impact that just distro ISM can have and what that looks like. Resistance starts to just be able to talk to people. Which John I I love that you're able to have a column and the work that you've done I think is highly important and that that relates to a question I want to ask is what it means to they what would they call the old green anarchy need UPS that. I know that green Anarchy magazine was the center of you guys. Did it in a National Park. At one point, I think it could be blanking. By having nose back, even if they're not the same stale. But people just go out, be out in, you know, nature and have those conversations that aren't mediated by technology.

Speaker 2: Right, exactly. Every summer there were these rewilding things way back then in the in the 2000s.

Speaker 4: People like to laugh and laugh with each other. Yeah, and being able to bring those back, even if it's you in a couple of friends, be able to. Make fun of each. Other and have fun, right? Because so. Much of it's being able to just, you know. Not worry about the health state that we're in, but to be able to enjoy each other's presence in unmediated fashion. You know what does it look like?

Speaker 3: No, exactly, exactly true. And like the five steps backwards with the COVID epidemic, and then on the whole social media and reliance on reliance on that and and and not face to face, meet up meet.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: Talk be with other people and and I would. OK, part of John opened with the mass shootings, talking about the mass shootings and, you know, just human social relations have deteriorated so much and whether it's pandemic. I mean, it's not 1 cause nothing single cause. But pandemic and then social media, virtual realities, this whole. Dehumanization of living things.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I just had my students actually today we're talking about time management and I had them. I was like yesterday. Tell me what you did and how long it took you to do and wasn't necessary just to get them thinking. And I had one student. He was like, you know, I come to school, I go home. He's I was on TikTok, I'll say how long he said I know. You're not going to like my answer. I was like, do I want to hear it? He's like 7 hours. You certain like how many of my students said how much? How much do you watch TV or sit in your phone? And I'm not trying to judge you, but really think about and you just had the guests on from get off. Social media is whatever. The club is. You know what? When you get older, looking back, do you want to make memories? And what are you hoping to do with a little bit of time that you have or you want? To stay on your phone, on social media. Like, what do you really? Want to do with yourself? And I have a lot of those conversations. I don't, I don't. Try to push my anti tech but I'm very clear with that like I have it in my room like I make little. Jokes about like phones. And I've had students tell me like, you know, because of the conversations, I got rid of Instagram, I got rid of TikTok or whatever, because we also do weekly check-ins, like how often have you been? On your phone, if your phone tracks it. Tell me, what's your average phone? Use like I really. Pushed them to think about that stuff. Some students think I'm just a young boomer, basically, but others are like no, like, this is important to. Talk about, you know.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 3: Well, and and when you say like things do you care about your memory like this direct relationships? They're like studying that understanding what is happening to.

Speaker 4: Yeah, or attention span.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that collar quit social media. That was he. He was so articulate on that, making it a very personal question. Like you like you're doing. You know, it's not trying to push some theory on people, but you know what's going on? I mean, what is that satisfying? Are you spending all this time and for what? Basic questions.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's weird and and it's it's one of those things too that I tried to look back when I was younger, when I was on social media a lot and I looked at them. I try not to judge them cause it's like the even just the social pressure if you're not on it, it's weird. It's weird to not be plugged in. You know, and as being at a high school, I don't judge or middle school even because that's when it sets in. Like, oh, everyone has Snapchat, everyone has XYZ. It's. I don't blame them for not getting on. Right or for getting audit, I should say.

Speaker 3: Well, it become. It becomes not an option. You know it's like 2 function before this show started us talking with John just about my experience. With with cell phone and and just the whole your access to a human being through the chat box and through the present systems in play that there's just no option for human interaction. And it's just like you, you're you're routed in deliberate loops that just keep you impotent from, from, from, from, solving any kind of basic problems or or anything. It's just like. Yeah, it's over the top.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. So I.

Speaker 2: There's a good piece today at The Verge. Social media is doomed to die and to disappoint us from some guy who spent seven years working for Snapchat. Ellis Hamburger by name and he he just pointed out something kind of basic. In other words, chap. Snapchat, as I understand it, was kind of like. This is the hip. Ethical aware kind of social media. It's not like the. Other ones? Well, it fell. It fell right into line like. All the other. Ones and he says, OK, let's look at the original. The original draw or the original vision, whatever you want to. Call it social media is a way to share things with family and friends. You know, when you send them pictures or a joke and it's a nice idea. There's nothing wrong with that. And but he says, why does that always change? The bottom line is growth, just like capitalism, by the way, of course. And it you, you can't just have the same people doing the same. You know, party shots or whatever sending. And that thing has to grow and you've got to have advertisers. And so you can see right away it's it departs almost immediately from the original. If if there was a sincere, you know. Helpful pictures that you want from social media. No, it it's just. It goes it goes one way. It's kind of grow. You've got to quantify the thing you've got to have. You know, the ads, the pop-ups, all. That stuff, or else you.

Speaker 3: You gotta mine the lithium. You got to, you know, the extraction. Like the whole. It's a whole big package.

Speaker 2: Well, I have that too. All of it, yeah. But just the way you're using it, it's not that in itself is is false. You know, it's it's the logic of it is there, you know, otherwise it fades away, you know, and and then it's just like any other one. And it's replaced by some other.

Speaker 4: It's always interesting these people, these, the people in the inside like Bill Joy, who wrote why the future doesn't need us in response to dudzinski it's these people know it, you know, and they can see it and they become dissenters. But then always people within Silicon Valley are like, oh, you're just a weirdo. But but he was in it. It's not like he's some dude that just is rejecting. Well, that he lives in and he's seen it like those are the people you think in the public eye. Could have the authentic perspective right, but still no one listens. But before I go, did you see that Jerry Mander, author of four arguments for the elimination of television and in the absence of the sacred, passed away recently? Yeah. Yeah. So that's.

Speaker 2: I didn't know that until I saw your message.

Speaker 4: That's weird because I just I just read earlier this year for arguments for the elimination of television and his absence to the sacred. That was a really impactful book for me, so I was always hoping to get him on the podcast, but. I think he was just it. Never it, never. You know materialized but you.

Speaker 2: You know, and he ended up rather badly. I mean, back in the 90s, I mean, he ended up with some kind of notion that there should be to save everything. We need sort of some philosopher kings to to step in. And of course. He would be one of. Them. I mean, that's kind of ridiculous. I mean, not only not. Anti authoritarian but just you know what? What are you smoking, dude? That's what you came up with after these two wonderful books. I mean, it's it's kind of sad and it's. But those two books are very important. I think I agree with that.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope you 2 have a great one.

Speaker 2: Thanks for calling.

Speaker 3: Hey, thanks.

Speaker 2: Well, I don't even know if we have time. For a short break, do we do you think?

Speaker 3: Let's see. Where are we at? Oh, my goodness. The time is flying.

Speaker 2: Maybe just a real quick and maybe a minute or two, just so you can refresh. Your martini. There you go. OK. I wish you could sweat.

Speaker 0: Like dolphins? Like dolphins and slaves. So not. Not saying we'll keep us together. He can be. But never and never. Or we can be heroes. Just for one day. One day. What's up?

Speaker 2: All righty. Thank you. Cool. We were back. Yeah, well, that's a very topic of the week. To steal that from the anarchist news people. But anybody else have any thoughts about resistance and rewilding?

Speaker 3: Call in while you have time, 541-346-0645. Hey, I want I wanted to add a couple more things on my damnation of technology. The one thing that people don't. The loose side of it, maybe it's not really looked at and this this will be go. This comes off of a Wall Street Journal 329. AIC is doing the work of many professions and it talks about, you know, the jobs, the professions that are going to disappear in the employment. Opportunities for things like mathematicians, interpreters, writers, and nearly 20% of the US workforce. The article goes on and starts talking about. It's a multi trillion dollar problem training workers to collaborate effectively with the technology and redesigning jobs to enhance the autonomy, wages and career prospects of many roles. Individuals have already begun using generative AI to work more quickly, though many employers worry about security and accuracy, so so just the whole hidden hidden kind of things that the AI that all all these so-called improvements are really just. In speed ups, good old fashioned speed ups and what happens? What's part of the cost of of the speed up is imagination, creativity and loss of that imagination and just standardization, homogenization and basically the. Into the ender. The wedding of humans to their machines and, and we already see it with the little prosthetic cell phones that people have them in their hands and they they're in the submissive pose and and all. And on them all the time my garden. This was saying challenging his students. Like actually, do you ever look at how much time and then what is done with that time? Where does that time go? And and the that that's the the big thing that the time goes to investing more time into. You know, create tightening up those networks, tightening up those bonds and then it doesn't go into imagination. It doesn't go into creative ideas or anything, it becomes a. A dependent relationship between the the machine and the human being and and then. Chips over into the machine. Having the control of the human rather than the reverse, but ohh everybody thinks that oh, it's so good for us, it's expanding our possibilities.

Speaker 2: I like the way Peter Warby we were talking about that article in the new state. That there used to be. Well, there still is outsourcing of jobs. You find it cheaper labor source somewhere else. Well, now they're outsourcing, I'm thinking. That's what this so-called machine learning chat bot stuff is. Pointing toward, I mean and actually achieving to some degree one isn't thinking.

Speaker 3: And it's not thinking I mean that that's the exact point, it's it's increased domination because it's new ideas are challenging, ideas don't come out of it. It's a reiteration of a compilation of what's already happened, been thought. Utilize to to nefarious ends.

Speaker 2: It is very interesting question. This was discussed like almost a month ago in Artemis. And it gets down to another layer level if you will if. A lot of these things in symbolic culture can be so easily replicated. Then what does that tell you about symbolic culture? Very interesting. And when I was, for example, here's two stories from yesterday. This year's Sony World Photography Award was won by an AI generated image. It's not a photo at all. The guy who submitted it this thing. We refunded the prize. You know, it's just so much for photography or this one. Same same day. Yesterday, AI generated Drake song. That's interesting to just plan some Drake the other day.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Hard on my sleeve. It's simulated Drake type music taking off on TikTok and Spotify. Millions of listens. They took it down after but. Nobody. Everybody's full. It's just this. It's just as good as it drakes on made by a machine. I mean. So, yeah, that's something to ponder. So then. You know that kind of that kind of undermines a lot, isn't it? I mean, you think art and all this stuff is so fabulous, the machine can do that. And does it really? I mean, it's. Or at least. Something like that. I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, covers everything there, but that's scary.

Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a downgrade. It's a a. A downgrade of human capabilities of of what? What could be?

Speaker 2: Well, I know, but if it's just as good as the other thing, then what's the difference?

Speaker 3: Well, what? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean. And, you know, Cliff sent this the other day. I guess the question was, who was the reason? And there was this big. Well, not it wasn't endless or anything, but it was like a column like thing. And he sent it without comment, you know. And so I'm thinking. This must be real cheesy, or stupid or. No, I. You know, I had to say that's pretty accurate. That's kind of covers it. It probably went through. Everything I've ever written in in a millisecond or something and could spit it out, you know, could assemble it through all the algorithms and however else it works. I don't even know. But I had to admit I don't see anything inaccurate here. You know, a friend could have written it, you know, somebody sympathetic. Not. Not a damn machine. So I mean, I didn't even know what to say to Cliff, except I I copped to it. I said that, you know.

Speaker 3: So it was something AI generative AI that was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, with the checkpoint answer. I don't. I don't even know the question, but I assume it was who's theirs and or something, you know.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kind of a drag. She pretty good. I have to admit.

Speaker 3: Right. But it that's like living in the past. That's not the living series. And with creative or with mistakes or with anything, it's a standardized it's a dead product. It's death, you know.

Speaker 2: There you go. That's true. That's true. Too pretty much.

Speaker 3: So well here, just going on the technology stuff, just curiosity. How bank app knows it's you and and that that was another article that was today just talking about. The the Banks authentication practices and and how you know compared to what the individual like, there's not equality in this technology and and the invasive methods. And and the. Accumulation. Compilation of data to what to? To determine to approve a login or a transaction. So so I mean if if you keep your, if you pay attention to that. Read between the lines on technology and and who's getting what and how it's being utilized and who it's like. This bank app protecting identity. You know, that's a little different than me messing around on my little laptop or giving my bank. Sorry to somebody.

Speaker 2: Well, I've got a an announcement or two, I I. Meant to squeeze this in which there won't be a sand bonds green anarchy panel that our last Sunday night of the month. Deal. So sadly enough. March and April both had to be skipped for various reasons. I won't go into it, but. And this is maybe the good side of that, that there won't be that at bonds on the 30th on that Sunday, but there will be at the Eugene Garden Club of all places here and Eugene between 17th between 16th and 17th on High Street. Sunday the 30th at 6:00. This is going to be a film showing Alf evening essentially also political prisoner support effort. From the. Civil Liberties Defense Center and. The group certain. Days. So it's jointly done by them.

Speaker 3: And that's at the Garden Club.

Speaker 1: So it's nice.

Speaker 2: I won't be. Yeah, the Garden Club. I I thought that's doesn't sound like a radical venue.

Speaker 3: That thing reminds me of what? What was that thing called the Ladies Terrace Knitting Circle or something? Do you remember that? Yeah.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, something like. Oh, and one other. Thing I hope this got around more than I I'm afraid it did, but couple of years ago, 325 the wonderful source.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. No state. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 325 N state #12. They did a oh, it was a very big magazine. 56 pages, I think lots of stuff. Lots of great. Tech critique and by transhumanism. Cryptocurrency, all kinds of stuff about the techno society. Well, they're working on #13 and this will be, I'm sure, really good, but it's it's they haven't even set a deadline for submissions, but I told them I'd be very happy to share that. If I must. State if you're thinking about. Something along these lines. So you want to write and send them. They'd be happy.

Speaker 3: Did they get their website up again? Like I lost track of them when they got put down.

Speaker 2: I I did too. I think so. I think that was temporary, but I, you know, I they didn't in the message. They didn't say anything about it, so I assume.

Speaker 3: Used to be 32325, no state. Dot org, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yes, thank you. Yeah, I kind of lost track of the.

Speaker 3: So is there a subscription or or a place for for contact Julia?

Speaker 2: 20 minutes. Well, I think if you go to their website.

Speaker 3: If they have their website out.

Speaker 2: If it's yes, exactly if it's there.

Speaker 3: Maybe you've got actual concrete magazine here. It looks fine.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got copies of #12 and I've. Yeah, as I say, I've bet #13. Which is a. Ways off. It's months away, but they wanted to start spreading the word. So that's another thing that's. Pumping up. Another project.

Speaker 3: There you go. Well, there times winding down for Earth Day is coming up. So in honor of Earth Day, I'm I'm saying that somewhat facetiously, I wanted to call attention to ocean garbage patch hose critters on an article. Based on the. Talking about the let me get my facts right. The trash patch, that's the. Plastic and ocean trash swept in into these gyres, the Great Pacific garbage patches. The biggest of these aggregations. It's a five day boat ride from the California coast, and it spends more than 610,000 square miles. Microplastic shards, less than 5 millimeters. Long account for most of the debris suspended in the water, like pepper flakes and soup. So some scientists from the Smithsonian Environmental Research Center in California and Maryland. Took took some stuff from that and saw that animals were found growing and reproducing on the garbage. Patch anemones, who like to protect themselves with grains of sand, had actually incorporated these seed like. Microplastics into their being. Things they're all fully loaded with plastic on the outside and inside, so that's how you and I may appear in. The future job. That, but they found an incredible amount of sea snails. The blue button jellyfish and their relative called by the wind sailors. Gather more densely where there is more plastic. So cleaning removing the plastic would mean uprooting them, doctor Helm said. Cleaning, cleaning it up is not actually that simple. So happy Earth Day.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: To the critters.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's good that we can get in a little bit of the environmental stuff the you know, all these floods. The piece about this is the last Friday's New York Times flash droughts that arrived quickly and are becoming more common globally, according to a Chinese study. Greater heat can rapidly parch the ground. And the other side of it is what was what happened middle of last week in Fort Lauderdale. Florida, where they got a month worth of rain in one day, you know, just instantly flooded everything, the airport and everything. Stuff like that. The more erratic turns of.

Speaker 3: Whether we're we're going to see here what what things add up to, we've got 200% increase in the snowpack in the mountains as their rivers are currently gorged, having the wettest April ever on record.

Speaker 2: Mega fires in the summer. Are you going to lose the foliage popping up and then it dries out? Perhaps faster than ever with this. And in Chile, the other side of it, of the flooding more than a decade of mega drought brought a summer of mega fires to Chile because they're just. Finishing their summer in Southern Hemisphere. I hadn't read it much about that, but mega fires. Down South. And and the recycling things. There's another thing about plastics here. This big fire in eastern Indiana. Toxic burning of plastics. At a plastic recycle plant, yeah. It was ever expanding plastic recycling and then it torches goes up in flames and everybody had to evacuate and very toxic. Plastic waste in the air. Black fumes. Yeah. Well, there's been stuff about that too. If you've got 1000 different kinds of plastics there. Is no one. Way to recycle plastic. You know, Speaking of not that simple. So what is? You know, it's it's just rhetoric. Let's just recycle everything. Wait a second. How does that work?

Speaker 3: Well, plastics, this, this one is on Gulf War illness affecting up to 250,000 vets is studied and that this was an article talking about the chronic disease is mysterious and chronic disease that affects hundreds of thousands of troops who served in the Persian Gulf during operation. Desert Shield and Desert storm. Department of the VA and national. Health finally announced A5 year study to understand the disease amid other efforts by the VA to better diagnose, treat and compensate veterans who have diseases related to exposure to toxins to toxins during wartime serve. So basically, 1/3 of those vets are affected by the Gulf War syndrome and they're getting around to studying it. You know how how? How does that bode well for the environment and and the people in the current conflicts.

Speaker 2: Yeah, worse and worse. Here's a quick Anthro thing. Thank you, Jason. Jason and Philly sent us from Science News March 29th. You know, interesting stuff about when human species mastered fire for cooking meat, for example, and the and what that changed and so forth. Well, this is a big piece about Paleo diet consisted largely of rotten meat. Putrid meat would sicken us. Even the smell of it would make us sick with modern, non robust human. They have fire. It's not that they didn't have fire, but they but the human Organism could also easily down very decomposed animals. And some of this is from actual recently surviving hunter gatherers, not just the Paleolithic record, but kind of interesting. It just shows how. Much more robust. One of these things from from a little bit more contemporary contemporaneously. Somebody I forget where it was, but they were on in a canoe in a swollen, very, very badly smelling dead rat floated by and they grabbed it up and ate it. And the western the the lawn. An anthropologist guy just threw up and can can hardly even stand it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: And they just chowed down. So even that is. You know these things about how. They could again, somewhat recently, these people are probably gone now, but could see the moons of Jupiter with the naked eye and so forth. You know, very acute sensual capacities. That's another one we compute.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

04-11-2023

[audio]

Mass shootings: "It's Everywhere!" Quit Social Media discussion. Graffiti #3. Diseases spreading, species dying off. The youth ain't buyin' it. Ad of the week: AT&T "Connecting Changes Everything." New AI brings 'catastrophic thinking.' 'existential anxiety.' E. Gudkowski counsels 'nuke it all!' Green EV ruins planet. A machine to read your mind. New Fifth Estate, new John Gowdy book. Action news, one call.

Speaker 1: That's a lot about NBA, and I think I had a great time. Tonight was great, sharing the airwaves with you guys and. Thank you for listening at home. It's been a great crack, smack today and we'll hear. We'll we'll talk to you guys later. This is crack smack on Kwa idiot. Put one of them. Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 2: Can't stand the beat. Too much? Get too much of it. I have to say. Expects disappointed me, so I guess I will. To be. It's too much. I've been thinking too much. It's our way to think that. A king. Drink with friends. Broken hearted here. We're all broken hearted.

Speaker 4: Well, you are listening to K WVU, gene. It is now time for anarchy radio and it seems that we've had our musical introduction already and we're going to just jump right into it. I'm here in. The studio with. John numbers 5. 413460645.

Speaker 5: I apologize for last week's no show, there was no. Broadcast of any kind. Hence there was no recording of any kind of giant snafu. This isn't totally clear how that happened, but. Yeah, too bad. After you know a. Fair amount of work to get the. Hour together. Not a. Well, Catherine will be here next week. And by the way, there's going to be a softball game broadcast. By the sports folks. So we'll be on Channel 2 and I'll try to say that again at the end of the hour. Yeah, kind of. Got notice of that so that I. Was able to. Throw that out there and inform people. And we're going to get a call tonight. We had we had a call last week, but nobody heard this from quit social media. Very interesting. Club and project. Here at EU of O. Well, I just want to get off onto the old perennial topic. The typical carnage. Yesterday in Louisville, the Bank 13 people shot 6 fatalities, including the gunman. And by the way, two hours later. In Louisville, two people were shot at the local Community College. One dead and. The night before Sunday night home. Shooting in Orlando 4 dead. And by the way, this shooter. At the Louisville bank. Young Guy worked at this somewhat prestigious bank, as I understand, hasn't he had a Masters degree in finance? And evidently, his fellow employees found him quite normal. You know, so we get the same. Thing over and over and over the liberals. Every sentence is about guns, guns, guns, guns. It's all about guns. More laws about guns and on the right, you know, it's fair to say that they more or less say nothing. You know about it. And the right, oddly enough, are closer to the truth. I'd say, because no one tackles the basic dynamics. Of lie the rising tide of mass shootings. So it's not going to change. Not, of course, that the right is any more. Desire the Liberals to want to go there to try to. Begin to see this as a function of society at this stage of its decay. You know, and so you get all this stuff, especially the liberals. Of course, the red flag laws, universal background checks. Well, maybe millions of people will qualify, right? I mean, I think we all know somebody or heard of somebody and I don't mean people who who snap, flip out and start shooting people, but people. Who flip out. It happens all the time and somebody said about this last. A blast of shootings, if you will. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Oh man, yeah, there's. Even more in the in the 24 hour period I could site in terms of the shootings. A week ago in Brazil, by the way, man with a hatchet burst into a daycare center. In southern Brazil, killing four kids. Yeah, rising tide of violence in Brazil and four other children were wounded. Somewhere near Sao Paulo, I think in the South of Brazil. Well, lately quite a spate of train derailments. By now this is kind of old news. The ethanol car is burning in the the middle of Minnesota, and the train derailment in the Netherlands. By the way, this is a passenger train. Dozens injured. Not quite as common as the plague of cyclones, tornadoes. In parts of the South and the Midwest here, though. Yeah, huge devastation. Flurry of tornadoes. Fact in January. Only 168 tornado reports, nearly five times that month average. Five times the number. Which was the average. Rate in 1990 and 2010. So a lot of these things are getting more extreme. Well, I'm. I'm tempted to jump into the tech stuff already, even ahead of the caller, but. I do want to mention something about this. New publication in the Eugene area, called Graffiti #3, is out. And I love the. I love the editorial. I'm going to be talking with him. We're going to do an interview tomorrow, by the way. Called frontlines, Don Wood is the editor publisher. He says he's talking about the tech. Gravitational pull. I originally wanted to keep graffiti old school analog print only. None of that there any gibberish if Med led were alive today, I'd be smashing knitting frames right there with them. Well, as long as they weren't producing my favorite PETA Gucci Fleece jackets, right. And then it goes further if he's succumbed. To it though. Has been persuaded to put his stuff on a blog, so he says that. These advertisers and contributors. Have they wanted to see graffiti on Instagram so as to broaden the scenes reach? Well, here's my strategy for broadening graffiti's reach when you're done reading. Copy. Pass it along to a friend and ask her to do the same hand to hand face to face and someone around the world. Sometimes going backward is an advancement. I love that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, Dax is here.

Speaker 5: Dax is here. Good evening, dax.

Speaker 6: Good evening again, John. It's lovely to be back on the radio for the first time.

Speaker 4: One moment please. Hello there.

Speaker 5: Hello. Hi. Sorry. Following around with the headphones. Thank you for calling.

Speaker 6: Ohh, I'm glad they've called in. It's lovely to be back on the radio. For the first time.

Speaker 5: Second time actually. Since the first time was the completely dead, but I appreciate your presence. Yeah. So can you just maybe just? Give a. General notion as to what you've been trying to do with quit social media.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I started. A club called the Quit Social Media Club I. The reason I started it was I found there was a lot. Of negatives for. Myself, just in terms of my attention span, my productivity, my kind of mental well-being, my social well-being really sort of any domain you can name, there's a reason why the mass amount of media you consume messes. Up that thing so. I found that there was all these problems for myself. And then when I kind of slowly started to get away from it, I realized I wanted to find a community of other people who also kind of wanted to get away from it. They're kind of. Yeah, I think that's it and kind of as I've separated myself from consuming so much media, I've come to realize that not only are the negative side effects on myself, but really kind of on society is large. And so I've kind of. Really taken up that. That fight, I guess kind of.

Speaker 5: Super. Yeah, needs to be found. Such unhealthy findings, I mean, just more. And more so, it's just. And you know, we were talking about this a little bit about the. The idea that. The sameness of many, many conversations, in other words, people will say they'll agree. Yeah, it's it's so deadening and empty and, you know, and so forth and so on, but I'm hooked. Right. Those two things together, I mean it's it's kind of amazing that nobody's having a great time and being fulfilled with social media, it seems. And yet. It's hard to find somebody who isn't pretty addicted to it.

Speaker 6: Yeah, completely. I mean, just today I was thinking about how it's just kind of a machine that's made to manufacture. Goodness like it makes you feel kind of content in the moment, but so many people aren't content in their lives. Like they're bored or. They're stressed in the moment they pull up in their phone and it's like putting a pacifier in the baby, in the baby's mouth. But the baby doesn't need a pacifier. The baby needs, you know, nutrients. Just in it's in life. And people aren't getting that from pulling open their phones. I think it's kind. Of basically obvious, if you look at the rates of suicide increasing for people in the age of 14 to 25. Like if you look at like rates of close friends has dropped precipitously since the early 2000s and then there are so many statistics that show in basic, you know, on pen and paper that. Like societal connection has been going down, Robert Putnam wrote about this in the early 2000s or late 1990s, when the most. You know, pervasive form of media was just. Network television or cable television. And nowadays, we. Have a form of media that is so attractive. That nobody even watches cable television anymore. Nobody I know watches it because everyone I know consumes hours and hours of media far more than they did back then, and they consume this media instead of getting more actual, like personal interaction, social interaction, meaningful hobbies, and. Life experiences all they get is the experience on a screen in their hand. But that doesn't make. Right. And that's kind of, yeah.

Speaker 5: That that putting boot blowing around. I mean that. Was present and it really is seemingly A deepening problem. You know the withdrawal, it just go into the screen, you don't need nothing else and. You know another part of that by the. Way and this shows my age and the. Laying out of it. The thing about dating there isn't any dating that isn't online. I mean, it may lead to actual dating or, you know, actual connection. But there is. I mean, it's somebody was telling me. Well, you that there isn't any. Anything really outside of them. And that's why there isn't much dating for various. You know, for example, fears on the part of women who don't know what they're getting if they're just online with somebody, you know. Could you, you know, you said something very. Very interesting along those lines about that phenomenon.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, it's kind of exactly as you mentioned that with like the prevalence of kind of dating in your hand, it's made dating in person like kind of go away in a sense, it's far less common than it used to be, but the issue. Is that it's like. It's kind of such a different experience than dating in person that so many people my age are like missing out on because they've never really experienced that.

Speaker 5: Boy, that's really something.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's completely not how people are meant to meet. People are meant to meet through kind of casual social interactions. Yet the notion of like profile is so like a dating profile, kind of so contrived and unnatural. And how are we supposed to have, like, natural interactions? This entire process is mediated by kind of advertising yourself on this profile, very. Capitalistic in a sense.

Speaker 5: Yeah, just images putting out images I guess.

Speaker 6: It's an excellent point. Yeah, it's almost completely that.

Speaker 5: Hmm, well. You seem like a real partisan. Like you're you're wanting to really push on this. Because of its importance and. I think you for example further outreach and further involvement. You're looking for that, I think it. The same prospects for. That, I mean in terms of the. Lack of satisfaction with the with the current. Deal. I mean. One would think so. I mean, you'd think that would be available to us, you know, to to connect on that level with the that kind of critique and that kind of. Future stuff that people might want to have.

Speaker 6: You know, this is a good question for you. I hear a lot of people mention this, that it seems like there's kind of so much discontent that it seems like something will happen soon and maybe I'm just, you know, a. Little bit here before the wave gets here. But have you ever kind of heard that sentiment before, where like there's so much discontent in a political like environment or in a kind of social environment? But kind of nothing's being done right now, can you think of, like, a historical analog for that, just for my own knowledge?

Speaker 5: Well, it's it's just very frustrating because you would think there it is, it's not, it's not hidden. It's no secret. I mean, no, nothing if everyone. Pretending to be. Happy and the whole media was going along with it. And I mean, of course, the bombardment of advertising on every side is, is the false the very expensively false part of it, I would say. But yeah, you'd think there would be more. Reaction. I mean, I think there is some interest. I mean I friends of mine was just talking to my friend Fern in New York this morning and she was saying she thinks a lot more people are hip to this. Somewhat ready. To, you know, to sort of sign on and and come to that and. But all of this remains so shallow. I was just talking about the mass shootings. In the in the superficial.

Speaker 0: You know.

Speaker 6: I was going to bring that up.

Speaker 5: You know, just it's just a non answer. I mean how much worse does it have to get? Does it have to happen every high school or whatever it is everywhere, I mean. When are you going to stop and say this is something profound? This is something to do with the nature of society as it is now and how it's getting worse. How all of these dominant things are failing, but they won't go there. They'll just talk about these Band-Aid things that liberals talk about endlessly and and the others don't even.

Speaker 4: All right.

Speaker 5: Or maybe like a like I was saying the right. At least if they shrug, at least there's maybe a little bit more of some kind of honesty. It's a cop out, obviously, but they they're they would tell you. Well, you can do these various things as it worked the last 20 years has gotten worse and worse, where even when you have these things, there's virtually no difference. It's not checking the basic dynamics that are going on here. So yeah, I mean that's that's one parallel I would see. How is it?

Speaker 6: I think you're. Totally right. I've never thought about that before. Yeah.

Speaker 5: It's very tough, though. It's the denial is. You know, just pound it in, I guess somehow and what's going to break it? Who knows? Sometimes they think about, you know, when I was growing up and in the when I was a child. In the 50s. And then it was the 50s conformism, consumerism, McCarthyism. We all went backwards, stuff. It was really. Nothing happening all the way up until the middle of the 60s. And then there was an explosion all over the world. It didn't go far enough. It didn't last long enough, but nobody saw that coming. So sometimes I consoled myself with that. That was a surprise. Nobody had an explanation. But there it was. It was going on, you know, so. And for a while. Very exciting and very helpful times. You know the music, the everything changed, you know.

Speaker 6: It's a very inspiring example right there and that's kind of like what I hope. For in a sense. Is that there will just kind of be an explosion, not a literal one. But yeah, I think like. That kind of social movement, I think, is really important. I think one thing that I certainly want to say is like to the people listening. To just like think about your media consumption, because it's likely that when you reach out to consume media, you're in like kind of a moment of boredom or you don't have anything to entertain yourselves at that moment. But when you consume that media. Just think about how in that short term you'll only be kind of contented. But in the long term, like rarely are you ever going to form. Or build experiences that like. You'll be proud of when you die, you know. I kind of like when people talk about, you know, watching television shows, you know, all you know, ten seasons and watching them over and over again. I just hear this and I think, Oh my God, that's so. Much of your life like. Where you were in boredom and then you just sought out to consume. Like, are those really? Experiences. You're going to be proud of. So tonight, when you like, consume media, think like am I building an experience that I'm going to be proud of? And I think if we all start to ask that question, we'll start to find the answer. While consuming media is kind of very rarely will you feel proud of that experience? Very rarely will you. If you compare it to the other opportunities, not regret it. If you look at the opportunity cost of making these decisions like. Kind of only to realize that the opportunity cost is far more than the what we would gain by spending that time with other people spending that time on hobbies, spending our time on actually meaningful experiences. So I think that's one point that I really want to make is think about your media consumption. You realize how? You consume media like in such large quantities. Rarely are you building experiences that you'll be proud of. You're more so just. Pacifying the current board.

Speaker 5: All said, I think that's the challenge. Will you be able to look back on it? And and find value there that you know meaningful stuff.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And with like the all the shooters we have today, like the people going out and shooting, I mean, there's probably many aspects to it, but this entire mental health crisis we have. I think it's extremely tied to this issue of kind of social isolation that comes. Because if you take away this media that we consume. Like if you were to take away all this media that you consume, you become bored and then you reach out to other people. I mean probably skipping some steps and simplifying in some sense, but in other ways it's just that this media that we consume is leading us to more loneliness, and this loneliness is. Like part and parcel, a very large part of the mental health crisis that's fueling these mass shootings.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, very important point. And that's the deck. Thank you so much. I hope to see you in person fairly soon too.

Speaker 7: Right.

Speaker 6: OK. Yeah. I would love to meet again sometime. John, thank you for having. Me on today.

Speaker 5: My pleasure. My pleasure. Well, he nailed it and you know I. Happen to have the. Out of the week, Speaking of media. From one of the big media giants, the kind of the original big one, AT&T. It's big slogan and the full page ads in the papers these days. If anyone sees that New York Times or whatever, connecting changes everything. No, that's is saying what kind of connecting. Connecting with images. Really connecting with the machine and when in the era where we've never been so disconnected, the isolation and anything is saying that does connect right up with this pathological stuff. We people see people. Isolated and you know they're so disconnected that. That's part of just spinning out and then, you know, into the void. And these things are generally suicides as well as homicides. These shootings, for example. Yeah, well. And this. You know, in a flaming topic lately is the chat bot stuff, and just the past very few months since the end of last year. Really something I mean. They can do everything. They can write scripts. They can do prepare law briefs, write and all you name it. And not just kids pushing the button and getting a. It's on paper done, but. The ominous nature the the subverting. I mean it's. Just it's just so. Limiting in so many ways this is already a major deskilling process in general, all the technological. Advances, as they say. And I was reading in the Sunday New York Times magazine. About 10 days ago. About all this, how it's pretty scary. It even brings so-called catastrophic thinking. Even existential panic. I mean, what? What is this? Is it just taking over everything now and? And we're left finally just passively dependent. You know, and you know, like the outsourcing is used to be a lot of talk about still is about outsourcing jobs. Now it's outsourcing. Thank. There was a piece in time this this really was apropos person named Laser Yadkin Owski. Maybe you've run across it. It was so was. It stood out, and not just in time, but it's been reproduced. Ludkowski went so far as to advocate looking all of these. All these tech think tanks that are bringing all this stuff out, all this chit chat bot AI, where the algorithms at the heart of this have already been taking over. You know, it's just another. Sign of the passivity. We are allowing the algorithms to tell us what we want. You know, I mean, that's just kind of a deep seated. Advertising kind of a thing and more than just advertising anyway. It counts. I don't know. Possibly similar. Talking chick. But I'm not so sure. I mean, he says this is just the whole ball game. You know, if we let this happen. There ain't going to be nothing left there. There won't be human. Anything, really. It'll just be. All this advancing AI stuff that does it all. Yeah, man. Well. I mean, I do see more interest in the critique of all this stuff. I'm getting to do more interviews and stuff. I mean, it's my small. Piece of it, I guess, but. And here's something from The verge. This past weekend. Sheena vasani. I'm going to read this short thing. The first part is take issue with but this is our commentary. While my smartphone has improved my. Life immensely, and I'm not about to get rid of it. It's also made some things worse, mainly my brain. The smartphone. Let us lets us easily check on things constantly and immediately. Whether that's the news or loved ones, but at the expense of our attention spans mental health and relationships. How recently I barely. But I realized I barely remember most of the concerts I've gone to and why I was too busy taking hundreds of videos and sharing them on Instagram with my phone. Funnily enough, I never even watched the videos after and only did when I needed to delete them to free up storage. Well, that's pretty. Damning. And it goes right along with what Dax was saying. For sure I mean. But again, the same kind of thing. Yeah, it's crap. It's. It's still defying, and it's hideous to my mental health. And on and on. But I'd never throw it away. I never stopped doing it. It's, you know, saying it's pretty much the same exact. Deal, although she does. Have the honesty to just, you know, laid out like and and what's going on that they couldn't bear to be without, you know, namely my brain and my consciousness and so on, you know, a few things like that. And one of them is too. You know, we were talking about images on the call there. Like for example with dating. How images? Come to the fore and somebody mentioned a while back. The whole question of representation has always been elusive. But intriguing. Fascinating. You know, and maybe this is the way. To get to. What is it about representation itself? You know the world presents itself to us, but we have to represent it. We have to represent it. And we're caught in this sense. Cave paintings, I guess, representation. And how has that worked out? How has that helped? Are we getting to see the extremes of it? That's at least part of it. And all this stuff about they're Speaking of images in today's New York Times, a piece called as AI images improve. Can we believe our eyes? And it went on to. Bring in the point. There's a fear of. Erosion of trust in media, society and government. You know, if it's all sort of fake, ultimately. But we are talking about this. There's no reference point. It's all just. Cut off from any reality. Really, it's just nothing but images, you know, without any. Tailor to to walk through because the machine. And you know, deep fakes and all the rest of it, getting extremely good at that. You know, I've been seeing some of these things that one funny deal, pictures of the Pope in the sports car or the. The in the cockpit of a Jenner with these crazy clothes on, I mean, looks it looked like the Pope, but of course it isn't. And the question also in today's New York Times. Can intelligence be separated from the body? Well, that's what's happening, obviously, but. Is it intelligence? If it's not embodied? No, the answer is no, but. But the facsimile is. Doing pretty well, thank. You and the. In its destructive vortex. Well, let's let's we better take a quick music break here, I guess. Be back in a minute.

Speaker 2: Spirits, realms. Magic. Never. And you're trapped into despair.

Speaker 5: There we go and we're back. And yeah, there were some nice signs, though, here and there I was. Just see last Thursday. Not a fair amount of ink. Bangalter comes bank holiday. Is the name Daft Punk guy?

Speaker 7: Oh, I don't know how you pronounce his name.

Speaker 4: Is that right?

Speaker 5: You can't read my writing. Yeah, anyway.

Speaker 7: I know you're talking about, though.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we know. We mean here anyway. Machine like music, you know, technology with the high tech helmets on and everything very. Not exactly anything other than that, but now after a certain pause, he's back. Is in a ballet called mythology. And it has a traditional classical score. These changes too if you will in the at the end of the piece, he's quoted as saying. My priorities in the world in 2023 are on the side of the humans, not the machines, so he's become very anti robot. That was his prior deal. Yeah. It's nice to see. I want to get in some announcements here, some interesting political stuff. I can't wait and just a reminder in the Eugene area, every Thursday at 7:30. Community TV channel 29. There's talks from the wit. I forget who's up this week. The one for this month, there was no presentation for March, but. April 30th, Sunday, April 30th. The there's going to be a panel. Live at Sammons. In the evening about green Anarchy magazine. Which ran from 2000 to 2008. I think there's going to. Be three of us. We're gonna think about that and seeing what we took away from that. The Northwest anarchist book Ferry will take place in Portland, May 13th to the 14th. The heads up on that. And Speaking of more interest in the critique of. Technology and even civilization. There was a piece. I saw it at anarchistnews.org the other day. Two weeks ago, I guess. By French. Writer called thinking through anarcho primitivism. This guy seemed to be kind of reluctantly positive. Sort of. Sum it all up, but. What he was saying about the primitivist point of view is, hey, nothing else has come close to working. Maybe we should take another look at a deeper critique. Before it's too late, sort of on that in that vein. News over the predictable people who sneered anything requires some thinking. But yeah, I think that's another sign that something's in the air. I had a great film session last week with the Alaskan filmmaker Bjorn. That was really fun and I appreciate the connection through Jamie. And I seem to be doing some videos with the Russian primitivist. By the way. Hoping to line that up very soon. I've been in touch with this person. Who is?

Speaker 1: Part of the thing.

Speaker 5: There in Moscow 20 years ago, and it's perhaps now reviving a small. Bit of primitivist to critique. I don't want to spend a whole lot of. Time on this but. Got the latest issue of 5th estate. Yesterday it now fits the state recently has taken the format of that anarchist review of books. That's what the magazine is bit mainly calling itself. Kind of a mixed bag, I would say. Oh, here we go. And the review. Format has been. It's the way it's done these days. This is the spring 2023 issue. Lots of history pieces. Not the parent company in the Mexican Revolution in World War 2, passivism. Nothing wrong with looking backward. There's also fiction reviews, some reviews of. Some fiction stuff and in terms of history. Piece about surrealism Ron Zukowski is the veteran cheerleader for surrealism. This piece actually mentions. Something I think Ron never mentions. Talking about Andre Breton, who was known as the sort of Pope of Surrealism, he was the one who set the political line. You know, straight up in the way that Guinea board called the tune for the situationist group. Anyway, Britton was a Stalinist in the 20s. He headed to the French Communist Party line. And they were very Moscow oriented, hence the name Stalinist. And then in the 30s. He became a Trotskyist, another version of Marxism, Leninism. And yet the piece claims, as Ron Zukowski always does, that surrealism was so anarchist. Well, what could be farther from anarchism than Marxism? Leninism. Come on, this is just. You know, first grade stuff. It's it's it's something as intelligence to think. Oh yeah. Cool. That's fine, you know, duh. But there are some reviews of very important stuff in the issue, for example. The one on braiding sweet grass I've mentioned. I mentioned her book before. Very important one and also. Breaking the alphabet. Very nice review by Ian. So very disappointing things in Fifth Estate, but I have to say. Somewhat typical, there was a two page article promoting voting. Wow, that's so anti anarchist. My professor, you know, maybe you should rethink this abstention from voting. You know, maybe in the Goldman needs to be updated, you know? Wow, that's just a liberal crap. You can be voter, you can vote all you like, but don't try to say it's. Somehow an anarchy point of view. And the book, there was a review review of Peter Gelderloos book on organizing on grassroots resistance. And it's it's OK I guess. But in in one place. The reviewer takes issue. With the God of this book, because it doesn't boost technology. Wow, another fail. Another big time, because isn't there some wonderful community based technology and isn't technology can be very cool and you know, man, maybe want to vomit. Like I would say, maybe the most important article in the issue is what about chat bot? And that. Of course I've talked about it, I mean the. On rushing advance and all that, it includes all the threat that includes. Uh, it's OK. There's some very good bits in it, but it doesn't go deep enough. It's just on the level of capitalism, and my question is. Oh, so this chatbot AI stuff would be fine under socialism? No, it would be. Exactly the same. You're not talking about the nature of what it is if you're just talking about capitalism. Sure, the profit motive of obviously part of. The corporate tech world that goes without saying, but. You know, it's all about the nature of the technology which the. Pretty much mess, I'm afraid, not entirely, but. But quite a bit. Interesting that how to blow up a pipeline? Is now movie was based on the 2021 book, so that was pretty fast for to appear as a movie. Yeah. And apparently, well, the reviews are kind of mixed time to tell. I mean, I haven't seen it whether it's pretty good or I don't know. And you know you you want to sort of sort out the politics of the reviewer. Maybe they're horrified at the thought that anyone would. For not blowing up a pipeline. But anyway, that's, you know, you can do the guessing game on that one. But but I think the plan is. At one point that you could make is very interesting that this is widely reviewed and discussed. In other words, blowing up a pipeline that's pretty marginal stuff pretty. You know off the table kind of stuff, but. It sounds like that's not true anymore, that uh. Maybe the idea of real action? Is on the table. And maybe like the piece about primitivism. Everything else has been a complete flop, so why not? Why not give a thought to blowing up the pipeline and you know as a as a marker of? You know, property damage sabotage. Something more than the symbolic. Well, I'm dying to see this. My friend Jamie has talked about this a little bit. For my. Satisfaction little bit by John Gowdy. Who's really strong? Anthropologist, whose work has dealt with Hunter gatherer life. The one is called Ultra Social. I just want to read this. From June. From his e-mail is full on old school anti agriculture anti Sev Pro Hunter gatherer primitivism for the 21st century. Really excellent and I must know about Reid. And it says got it. Short to Jay-Z, gaudy flies heavily in the face of the grabber window, et cetera. Post modern process of garbage. Short, succinct and crushing of Holocene civilization. Those books this grounding says humans evolved to become like ants and termites via agriculture, living in colonies of worker like drones, and that we must some. Somehow find a. Way out of this very bad evolution. Man, that's sweet. Well, some. There's been action in France and it it's in the context of the resistance to the government plans to raise the retirement age. To 64 from 62 rails sabotage. In the song region in northern France, also in southern France, in the Marseille area. Sabotage of electrical facilities. And by the way, there is a new return fire volume 6. Many articles, one of one jumped out. To me, it's called the new Luddite rebellion. There again, we got the anti tech stuff. Lovely to roll it out and. And saying going back aways here. The week of March 13th, we damaged the vehicle of the SMA M Company, a multinational corporation dedicated to environmental devastation. Through construction of gas pipelines. This is new Loretto in northeast Italy. We have heavy equipment puncture and its wheels smashed. Its windows and headlights, et cetera in support also of Alfredo. Come speak to him and. This is this is last week, a week ago. This is from the needle in northern France. More than eight, we were raging against this rule of cages, private property, exploitation and destruction of the living. So we set fire to a group on a car which was lying around in. Some of the bad guys. Corporate wise and oh, what else? Oh, there's a new collection, a collection of Rod Coronado ridings came out about a month ago. I understand. Thank you. Rio called flaming arrows. Uncompromising, Alf. And you see that in action 2.

Speaker 1: Well, there's been.

Speaker 5: A wealth of stuff about how this green electric vehicles. Switch or shift. Is is going to be a wonderful thing, getting away from fossil fuel cars, for example in the. And here's just one out of many. This is the vice thing today. From Indonesia. In the vast rainforest. And the people? They're called omanga nyawa. They are a self isolating. Group living in the rainforest. Which is being destroyed. Devastation for these people, so that there can be. For lithium for producing the batteries, powering the electrical vehicle industry, lots of cases. This is just today's. Lose in that regard. Also today. There was a long front page story in the New York Times called Bitcoin devours energy, and others may pay a price. Well, just a reminder, I probably said this before, but the computer calculations needing to produce Bitcoin. Are an enormous energy drain. The calculations on the computer power. To crank out something that seems such a shifting sands, and how many people have lost. All their money chasing this kind of stuff is is is if it's a hedge. For the future, you know. Yeah. Well, we can't depend on governments and their currency. So yeah, let's do this. Which is even. Even weaker and more subject to. All kinds of corruption. There's a play this this is in the news yesterday called Smart. It's about an AI device called Jenny. And this is about machine companionship. Is she needing? I guess, yeah. And the the points of subtext is that. There is no substitute for an actual relationship. Yeah, somehow the machine doesn't. Doesn't really get it. Who will take care of Italies older people? Maybe robots. This was a recent piece. There is an aging population in Italy like there is in Japan and other places. Hoping robots. Yeah, that's your human connection. Yeah, it's just. As good. Well, some bad news about ozone depleting.

Speaker 1: And you know.

Speaker 5: They were banned. They were taken out of service. In terms of use in refrigerators aerosol. And other solvents and so forth banned globally. The Montreal Protocol agreed to in 1987. So Hooray the ozone hole. It's going to shrink. Well, not so fast. It's been increased. Rapidly between 2010 and 2020. Reaching a new record. This is scary stuff and the reason is these. Are still permitted to be released as byproducts in the production of other compounds or immediates intermediates. To produce other chemicals and that's not covered by this protocol. And you can always count on these protocols. These global agreements, and this was in the journal Nature Geoscience. Along with the onrushing technology, one of the kind of quotidian. Almost prosaic parts of this is. Face recognition technology. They firm Clearview Clearview is a big facial recognition firm. Has run nearly 1,000,000 searches for US cops. Then the statement to the BBC. Very invasive stuff and yeah, problematic all over the place. Now they're. Using it at sports events and you know all over the place. There are a little more restriction in Europe and Australia, for example. Fines for breaches of privacy, but. Not so much sure. Wow. Wow. Sort of caught up with last week. I didn't want to just repeat everything that was said last week. Carl falls asleep midway in the show anyway, so I didn't worry about boring him. But you know. Well, thanks for tuning in. And Catherine and I will be here next week. And a further reminder we'll be on Channel 2. For the broadcast.

Speaker 7: If you just go to the website, if you listen on. If you listen on the radio, you have to go to the website next week anyway, but when you go to the website to listen, if you normally go to the website to listen, you just click the. Stream 2 instead of stream one. Thank you.

Speaker 5: I was about to explain that.

Speaker 7: I just woke up and it and it hit me.

Speaker 5: Nice catch. Take care of there. See you next week.

Speaker 3: Call me the wrong. Really rock your neighbor. I can Rock You all night long. I can let. You down? Thank your money. Rocky, I want you to have a chance. Let you down. And shelling on the plane. Sound raining and shaking. Don't say to me. Don't mean a thank. Shake your daddy. I just shake like I will loves you. Call me the rock. I can really run. I can really rock. Don't let me take your stand.

04-04-2023

Foul-up at the station: no broadcast, no recording.

03-28-2023

[audio]

Oak#5! "If We Don't Master AI, It Will Master Us." More on domestication; civ and childhood. The multiverse: no here-and-now. Global climate anxiety among youth. London's Lonely Girls Club. Epidemics, crazed weather. Ad of the week: National Conservancy plugs AI. Recalls, tech fails. Facial recognition, 'augmented reality' on rise."Poverty?" by JZ. Resistance briefs.

Speaker 1: Wow. Hi. You're listening to KWVA, Eugene, where it's 7:00, and it's time for anarchy radio. And I guess we need to, we need to figure out how to turn on the lights in here. It's dark and cold. It's it's dark and cold. It's like we're an underground cave. There's going to be. Some hand around hazards for us to deal with, so we're going to take a little music break right at the top, listen to music from the jaws of Brooklyn.

Speaker 0: For someone to. Say my name.

Speaker 2: Looking for you, March 28th, 2023 Anarchy Radio. Call on me. The number is 541-346-0645. It was so cold and dark in there I couldn't.

Speaker 1: I I think no. It and let me see if I can.

Speaker 2: Girls on the. Job. Yeah, he may have given out the number anyway, but. Yeah. And he solved the lighting problem. Oh, and I think if you turned off the Frigidaire oak #5. Showed up in the mail today and I was distracted quite a lot thinking about it. Almost neglecting this hours worth of anarchy radio, can I talk about it next week? Yeah, it's, by the way, it's sold out already. It's spoken for. Got a little money squeeze going on. With Steve so. I certainly can't solicit money. This is non commercial radio. But just just a word to the wise, there's that's the only reason why this is. The run is already out. It would have. Been bigger. It would have been more than 500. If you're thinking about oak, it's quite something and I do want to. Take the time to get into it next week. Well, let's see. Got to mention the shootings, I guess yesterday in Nashville, 7 dead at a Presbyterian school slash church. 28 year old. And by the. Way also yesterday in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The 13 year old student stabbed four teachers and two students. One fatality there. And let's see, this was last Friday in Berlin. 61 year old Man killed was killed. Wait a minute. Let's see. Three people were wounded in a hand grenade and knife attack. In Berlin that happened. Friday night. So you don't have to have a ton of guns. Some of these countries. Guns are pretty rare if not proscribed. But the thing that's going on is this kind of. Mass death, if you will, is. Spreading said before. And let's see of military veteran veteran gone down three kids and an active duty soldier in South Carolina. That was Tuesday the 21st also. I think this other one was the 21st, but here's a piece locally pretty much locally. Our police shootings recurred in Salem. Salem is the state capital of Oregon, just up the road north of here. Pretty alarmingly high higher rate. Cops killing people in other Oregon cities. Yeah, some of these things, man, it isn't just the big city. Between 2012 and last year, Salem cops shot and killed 10 people. Anyway, I won't get into all the numbers here, but. Yeah, that's kind of freaky in itself. Nice, fairly quiet state capital, lot of bureaucrats and. Well, one more thing on domestication. Wanted to start up two weeks ago. I think there was a. It was a piece they referred to. About the toll on horses and their riders. Spinal wise and other deformations from the domestications. And then it went on into elephants. And there's more on that. And again Marcus chiming in. In part, this is a story. From well, in particular, 71 year old female elephant disfigured after working. In the tourist industry. Ferrying tourists around on its back. You know, just the whole panoply of domestication and and the particulars. In this case, some of the larger quadrupeds. And here's a. Is a very early thing. Well, early civilization. A new book. Brenna hassert. As a book called Growing Up Human, the evolution of childhood. This was uh. Reviewed in the Times literary supplement, by the way. Yeah, the fruits of civilization. The turns out that the first ritualized violence may have been human sacrifices. Of 12 year olds. This is about 5000 years ago. And the bones of children dating from 2000 years ago in the salt mines of what is now called Austria. Show severe arthritic. Degeneration from carrying blocks of salt on their heads. Yeah, none of this existed before domestication slash. You know, the early civilizations just jumped right off into. The horse, so. Well, I'm going to. I'm definitely going to go into some tech stuff. But here's something just jumped out and it jumped out like #5. From yesterday's New York Times. And it was answered by three people anyway. It's it says so much. Just the just the title of this piece op. Which is, if we don't master AI, it will master us. And which is, you know, good. OK, the writers talk about. AI Visa V the foundations of societies. That are that the foundations of our civilization are at stake. You know, they're stating that artificial intelligence will control everything, including symbolic culture. But wait, it is symbolic culture. Anyway, what came to mind kind of glaringly is. Yeah. If we don't master AI, how? OK, please, how? Do you have any hint? Any clue of what you're talking about? Or which are espousing or counseling. No, of course not. You know more. More silly. Pointless stuff. I mean, the point isn't silly, but the. But the objective was 0 content. Kind of pretty much is. Yeah. If we don't master AI, we'll master us. OK. Well, we're certainly slated for a green, sustainable future. And part of that, it's the same old extractivism that it always was. But one of the maybe looming cardinal features. In today's world is deep sea mining. Got to get down to the seabed and mine the heck. Out of it in particular. To get nickel manganese cobalt. For electric cars. Yeah. Well, you trying to complete the complete the. Disfigurement of the natural world. But the goal is electric cars don't forget. Yeah, that's going to be wonderful. I mean, this is really kind of hideously obvious. And meanwhile. Oceanographers, biologists and other researchers have warned that these plans would cause widespread pollution to destroy global fish stocks and obliterate marine ecosystems. A small price to pay for electric cars, after all. Yeah, which pollute less. Yeah, they do pollute less in their operation then. Gas guzzlers, but. You know what's always left out is the cost of building electric cars, not to mention the very, very heavy lithium batteries and all the, you know, contingent stuff that's. But let's not. Look, a gift horse in the mouth because. We need electric cars. Everybody knows that. Well, there's a funny odd. Scary little thing from Euronews last Thursday. There is a pretty obvious connection between Rd. traffic. And air pollution. But this further one. Published in JCC advances. Study in this journal. Surprising that the association being Rd. traffic noise and high blood pressure. Was very robust to leave aside the air pollution part of it, but ah yeah, noisy Rd. traffic. And hypertension. Let us count the ways. And the severe erratic weather, or something else. This is kind of interesting, that Aurora Borealis, also known as the Northern Lights. Were seen Thursday night in parts of Northern California. Northern California. It's not the furthest part of Canada. Or Siberia, but yeah, extremely rare. That you get to see that? In California. Yeah, it's it's worrisome. Oh, it's pretty cool sight to see, but I think that goes along with the. Climate anxiety, it seems to be plaguing. Especially the world's youth. Thanks RC for this one. This is from the Week magazine on Friday. 2022 survey of 10,000 individuals ages 16 to 25. Found that over 50% of respondents were very or extremely worried about climate change. And about half. Said it impacted their daily lives. Higher clinical symptoms of depression and anxiety. That's serious. That isn't just. Yeah, we're that's pretty sketchy. Yeah, we're bugged about that. Yeah, now it's more more than that. It's. Part of this story says so. They know that the world is going to get to be a harder, darker, scarier place. And they've got some long years. One hopes to. To realize that reality to live that reality. In the Friday, March 24th New York Times, the story about how. Autism rates. Risen again. This is based on. Data from the years 2018 to 2020. So it's before COVID musically. Or mostly. One in 36 kids. It's the focus on children. And you know it's always. Accompanying these things, especially Visa V autism, I think. Is the question? Well, it could be just more scrutiny. You know better screening it isn't there? There are that many more. Young people, but that's beginning to sound a little flat, that's. You know, it may be something of a factor, but it doesn't account for the general rise. I think there's pretty much a consensus on that one. 01 other thing that's rising is the number of whales washing up on East Coast beaches. Dolphins, in particular on New Jersey coast. Attributed to industrial shipping and climate change. Found this interesting today. Based in the New York Times, quote income gap becomes the physical activity divide. From the CDC and this is just straight up. Statistics, basically. Namely, that 70% of kids from family income of $105,000. A year or more? 70% of. Kids from families like that engage in sports activity. You can find them on sports teams or in the. Gym, whereas only 31% of kids below the poverty line. That's quite a bit less than half. So you've got the stereotypical soccer mom who can drive a bunch of kids around in a big van. Or. Something and or schools that get more tax money have more facilities than. Schools in poor areas. And I also wonder one thing that was left out completely. In terms of this, look at that that picture of. Physical activity, visa. Visa. Is the role of technology and you wonder. Does everyone now not have a cell phone? I think that's kind of like pretty much everyone. There used to be a lot of talk about accessibility. We got to make sure. The pool of access to online. So that they can have phones and everything else. But I wonder. If you know how many people, how many kids? Are glued to their screens in lieu of going outside. Or not to mention being physically active. That would be interesting. And and I don't know what the answer is that I. I think that it's. Conceivable that poor kids spend more time. On the screens but that I might. Be wrong about that. But it could be part of the picture. Emotional health. This is interesting from the BBC last Thursday. Article about London's Lonely Girls Club. The Lonely Girls Club has 31,000 members and growing. And it speaks to a presence of severe loneliness. Yeah, it's another sign. Thanks Richard. Oh boy. The deadly Marburg disease is spreading into African countries. More deaths than cases reported. This is also last Thursday. It's similar to Ebola, a viral. Hemorrhagic fever. Bad news, and of course the. The deadly fungus that's afoot in this country. It's been more on that in the past week. Spreading and. And some of these things do have direct relationship to climate warming. Let's see what is the source of this. This is another story from Thursday. The writer is Denise Chow. Yeah, getting back to the old scary one flesh eating bacterium. Maybe hear about that once in a while, people. Jump into the warm lake, especially in the South and a few of them. Get a horrible. Brain eating thing? Well, the flesh eating bacterium. Are thriving in waters farther north. Things heat up. The water heats up. Still rare, but further evidence about human health and the health of the planet are inextricably linked. Yeah, this is in the journal Scientific reports. And they're predicting that it's just going to, really. Go way up. As part and parcel of the glooming of the warming thing. Another negative thing is telling Carl. I think you missed it, but that this was given out yesterday, the Kennedy Senator, Senator Mark Twain Humor Award. Was given to get it Adam Sandler like you think that like with Pauly Shore in the running for that one too. Right. Another cheesiest worst character cringe where they come on. This is a new low in pop culture. I just. Oh, Mark Twain and Adam Sandler in the same.

Speaker 1: It's practically the same guy.

Speaker 2: Right. They're the same guy.

Speaker 1: It's practically the same guy.

Speaker 2: Well, sure, you know similar writing, similar intelligence, similar originality. That just I just thought that's got to be a joke. Sadly enough, it isn't. No, no. Oh Lord, man, that California is just getting hammered. At least they're getting wet. Which is good in many cases. If you live in the Central Valley, it's some of which is underwater now, but tornadoes. In the LA area, last in the middle of last week. Yeah. Incredible. And. 2 and 100 mile an hour. Tornadoes, not cyclones. Tornadoes. I think it's the. Right. One in. Mississippi and Alabama, 26 or more dead up to 200 miles an hour. Oh, that's. It's getting pretty crazy. Well, we know about the. I think it was the. Oscar winning movie. Everything, everywhere, all at once. Right. Big hit movie. About parallel realities. And that's kind of. That's no small thing these days. The whole multiverse thing. There was a piece in Sunday's New York Times called the Multiverse nearly ruined my life. And you know, when you think about it, there's no more here and now. If it's all parallel realities, right? It's just somewhere else and simultaneous realities, all that kind of thing. And it's interesting that that's. That's the thing these days. Very much so. Well, Artemis slipped through the show last week and he told me. He fell asleep and I wondered why I wasn't pushing his upcoming scene plastic in utero and I said I did. And he goes, oh, I missed that part. Maybe really from tonight. Yeah, but you know, I am going to, I think wait until next week to talk about issue #5 evoke, which is just amazingly strong. And varied. Yeah, it seems to me the best one yet anyway, not to jump off into what I wasn't going to talk about. But this is a new thing and things come and go, you know, they just do, I mean. This turned out to be fortunately not that big of a story, but yesterday. In the new chemical plant north of Philadelphia. Leaked over 8000 gallons of acrylic polymer into a tributary of the Delaware River. Which is the source of Philadelphia's water. So they put out a warning right away. Use bottled water. Well, they got to resend that, I think before yesterday was out. Supposedly they've prevented that from getting into the Delaware River. OK. We can sneak in a little bit before the break here. Yeah, and then we'll get to. The usual techno craziness and other stuff. And some Action News too. Just got to mention the recalls every now and then, if not more than that, lucid motors the big. EV, they they I think they focus on luxury. Electric sedans under the air. They're recalling a bunch of those, or a faulty switch in its electrical system, which could cause it to suddenly stop. This actually is the third recall since Lucid started its air sedans, its EV's. In October of 2021. That makes me think of Tesla, right? There's never been a Tesla model that hasn't been recalled. Ah, the wonders of. Go scale rocketing technology. Today, 330,000 Honda vehicles were recalled. And I don't think any of those are even. On Sunday, it was reported that Lufthansa's operation the Big German Airlines. Were disrupt disrupted at Frankfurt Airport Frankfurt. Is one of the main. One of the two or three main airports in Europe. Yeah, technical problems. Cable damage last month. Caused Lufthansa, Lufthansa's computer systems to fail. Resulting in delays worldwide. Yeah, that's big. Old. That's Germany's biggest airport. Another tech fail. As we go along. Put in the add of the week. This kind of flow would be not quite as much as the Adam Sandler Award. Notification but. This is from The Nature Conservancy. Helpsupport.global.action@nature.org, The Nature Conservancy. Full page ad. In The New Yorker magazine. Shows underwater a picture of the school of fish. We're fishing for solutions with artificial intelligence. Yeah, that's it. Artificial intelligence. That's the key to conserving nature. Amazing just so. Cut off from reality. We've got some music we're going to have a little break, this is. What is this?

Speaker 1: This is. 24 seconds long. What? Yeah, it's dead ghosts, but let's see what it what? It's all about maybe it it it. Has a whole statement in 25. Seconds. Who knows? Or?

Speaker 2: Oh God.

Speaker 1: Maybe we're just going to go into. The next track. Let's find out what happens.

Speaker 2: Thank you. It was a pleasure. Getting back into a little bit of writing. This is a little bit I'm going to read this since finishing up the memoir, by the way, I haven't heard from Firehouse, my erstwhile publisher. And then up and they're going to. Agreed to publish some. Memoir, it's got some wild graphics. Anyway, poverty. A big favor remind of is William Morris's news from Nowhere, 1890. His protagonist awakens one morning in Hammersmith. And industrial suburb of London to find the air and the Thames clean. He is ferried across the Great River by one who is uncomprehending when his passenger drives to Pam. Progressively, he discovers A bucolic arcania. A world of grace, freedom and fellowship. A world released from the massive white ugliness of industrialized wage slavery. Not a dream, but a vision of the future. Is Morris's assertion at the novels ending? Quite opposed to such a vision as Ernst Bloch, a prominent Marxist utopian in quotes. Whose works include the principle of hope and the spirit of Utopia. Black was incensed with Morris's idea of revolution, in which quote, not only the capitalists but also the factories will be destroyed. In fact, the whole plague of civilization in the modern age will have been removed. Block makes his utopian orientation brutally. Clear, for example, all honor to the industrial revolution. We must surely think busily industrially, for in this breathless pace, in this acceleration, disquiet and expansion of our sphere of activity, great spiritual and intellectual works are latent. The latent has borne. Fruit the dead zone of industrialized reality, glaringly apparent in every sphere across the board. And it's this very late day leftist. Chomsky, Graeber at all have yet to come to their senses and their fundamental agreement with block details aside, the modern world is ruled by two realities. The commodity and wage labor, the price tag and the paycheck, never more so than now. The left proclaims its desire to to do away with this arrangement of life. But contrary to Morris, it embraces the dominant techno industrial complexity. How then, do commodity and wage labor go away? Are things free workers not pay? Now the left wants the modern world, with its millions of wage slaves just as much as does the right. Or they'd be deluded, anti industrial morrisite, or worse, primitivists. Marshall Sounds offers a wide angle. Take both profound and witty on the nature of affluence. In the original, affluent society, he measures of Paleolithic individual versus the modern businessman. And finds the former losing in every respect. For example, output productivity. Nothing is affluent in a conventional sense. The answer is obvious to solids. However, it isn't the businessman who always strives for more, but the hunter gatherer whose needs are met. Which one is poor while possessing little or nothing? And who has so much at the expense of others in the Earth? If we are to have a future, we'll have to be somehow primitive. Some of us have tried to rescue the term primitive from its usual pejorative usage. Refashioned as a term of value, not backwardness rooted in the indigenous dimension, it may be that a similar reexamination is needed regarding the meaning or meanings of poverty. Of course, poverty is often seen as a virtue of value in various religious traditions. The 13th century Zen Buddhist Dogen promoted freedom from greed and possessions in material as well as spiritual life. His ideal of poverty, simplicity and purity exalted the ancient tradition of living under a tree in the forest. For Duggan, there existed unlimited richness in the spirit of absolute poverty. The contemporary Christian Thomas Morton put it this way. The importance of detachment from things, the importance of poverty is that we are supposed to be free from things that we might prefer to people. Whenever things become more important than people, we are in trouble. Enrolled in the non religious Thoreau council's simplicity, simplicity, simplicity, and declared. I should be. Glad if all the meadows on Earth were in a wild state. He found that quote every morning was a cheerful invitation to make my life of equal simplicity. And I may say within it since, and I may say. Innocence with nature herself. What a contrast with leftist ideas. The concept of production is the basic link between the philosophy and economics of Marxist thought. Mass production most decisively, which introduces mass consumption and mass culture production, which categorizes and stigmatizes what we think of as poverty. But that doesn't mean that poverty does not exist. Not at all. Millions are cold, hungry, unhoused Matthew Desmond's poverty. Poverty by America. New Emily discusses his persistence in this country. Can the planet avoid becoming unlivable? The direct and. Mediated life for so long made us truly human. The poverty of little or no division of Labor. Was the real affluence, the wholeness that must prevail once again, poor and simple is required. All right, that's. See that was short. Yeah, I want to get into some more political stuff. Little resistance stuff for the upcoming. Going to take place. As we go forward into spring. This is in last Wednesday's New York Times price of prevailing over a giant. And this has to do with. You know, there's a certain. Amount of. Unionization tech workers, baristas. Others. This seems like this Amazon Labor union could be. Independent effort. As these things. Have to organize. New forms perhaps? Because organized labor is. Has been pretty dead and useless basically for. For so many decades anyway, there's this piece. Price of prevailing over a giant is all about how anti democratic from the start this Amazon Labor union in caps. That's the name of the union. And there's a struggle between the. Labor bosses already. Is a quote. From the headhunter going forward, here's the structure. If you can't abide by the structure, that's the door. Yeah, it takes. It happened originally very quickly. The bureaucratization, the lack of rank and file. Well, better news. The Israeli Government is just backed down. After many days of very militant protests across the country, they've withdrawn their proposal to neuter the judiciary, as any independent arm of the government temporarily. Anyway, they're going to try to get this get back on that horse soon. No doubt. Well, here's some upcoming stuff here. And I guess book fair is a whole week, March 27th, April 2nd. Had a good time in Valencia rotten and I was just down the coast. From Barcelona. And the Wildcat book and scene fair in Sydney is April first, also April 1st. This is pretty cool. This the festival of foolishness starts this Saturday in Melbourne. Read a little bit of. This welcome to the first International Pirate holiday celebration of subversion, bringing together pirates, anarchists and rebels to share tools for mutiny and subversion. We have games, music, art, film, workshops, stalls. Attention given to themes such as digital safety, mutiny against the boss, what is anarchism, really sworn organizing punk, veganism, radical sex work with an opening of the Incendium Radical library? On 144 Sidney St. Presumably in Melbourne. Pretty neat. Let's say March 21st and that was last Tuesday, a week ago in Barcelona. Beginning the 151st day of Alfredo Cosmetology hunger strike. As some of you know, for sure is their death. They burn a pro seguer. Car. That's a big security company. And the the company. Communicate says don't say we are few. Just say that we are signed. Some individuals with anarchist tendencies. And this was. Oh, this is earlier. This is March 18th.

Speaker 1: In Athens.

Speaker 2: Saturday night the 18th, we chose to attack the Italian company generally one of the largest insurance companies in Europe. Insurance company sells the illusion of security, which we broke when we smashed with hammers, about 40 windows of their new headquarters. On Singura Ave. Action done as a minimal set of solidarity with the anarchist comrade Alfredo Cosby Doe. And the fight goes on. It's a good ten days now. Efforts across France against France's new pension bill. Which would require workers. To work in additional 2 years from 62 to 64 before they could get a pension. And this. This is the story in the New York Times kind of gives it away. This is from sanity, quote after dark protests over Francis Pension bill devolves into vandalism. Yeah, let's just have protest. Just stand around with a sign which never gives you nothing. Yeah. Vandalizing. Well, that's one way to put it. Now they're they're for real. And that's going to be what it takes to beat back this because. The government is taking a hard line. Let's see more than two dozen people who were reportedly injured on Saturday this past Saturday. As police clashed with environmental activists protesting a Jain and agricultural irrigation reservoir. Being built in rural Western France, this is. Industrial agriculture writ large. Yeah, they don't like these mega basins. Of the tear gas police vehicles burned. People throwing projectiles. Well, I've got, I've got my chronology, a little skewed here, let's say, but. Anyway, during the night March 9th to the 10th. The damage of the railway electrical supply took place South of Toulouse at southwest France. Fiber optics also impacted. We are among those who refuse the recuperation of the central unions in their little dance of power. They're contending that some of this union stuff. Which would be far from the first time. Is it kind of a shadow play? And they're not really serious about opposing? This government neoliberal reform to make people work longer. Despite the unprecedented scale of the blockades, all this week and the mobilization of many sectors, we see the contempt of the government, the denial of the media and Union leadership already prepared to withdraw. We will still be many to fight against this deadly system. They see through it. Pretty well I would say. I'm sorry again with the scrambled chronology. Electricity pile on sabotage at the power plant. Near open pit coal mine. And Northwestern Germany, this is power to operate, said mine. 80 meter high pile on has fallen. The operator of one of the country's largest power plants believes it could be an active sabotage. And March 15th and Leipzig E Leipzig in southeast Germany. We attacked the police station with fire during the night of March 15th, International Day against the police and their violence. Our incendiary devices hit. The patrol car is parked in the yard. Three of them were burned. We remember the 36 year old was shot by cops in his apartment et cetera et cetera. Other pig atrocities were mentioned. And in the early hours of Wednesday, the 22nd of March. It was last Wednesday. We attacked an antenna repeater with fire inside the great Ring Rd. of Rome. We identified this objective in order to strike the telecommunications apparatus and to express our solidarity with the anarchist comrade Alfredo Caspio. That Jesus, now it's about. 160 days on, I think for him. Solidarity with him.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 2: The 1st 3D printed rocket. From relativity, space rocket is called the Terran 1. Exploded. This was reported on Friday. Yeah, 3D printing purely it doesn't make a worthwhile rocket. And that's something is a good one from Richard that. Friday in the. News. It's harder than ever to step away from our devices, which are so entwined in our lives. Is it fruitless to even try? And this refers to these digital detox things often seen in the summer times. Where people just take a vacation from their devices. But this piece points out. I was talking about the CEO Guy. Who had 10 tick? Free days at a Polynesian resort. But it points out for most people. It's an impossibility, especially now. How are you going to take a break? When everything. Uh is online, you know, and uh. It's a coveted challenge to to do the digital detox, but harder to accomplish, even far harder than since 2012. When people first use the term digital detox. Yeah, 2012. It would have been a cakewalk compared to. Now, where more than ever our lives are impossible to detangle from technology. Well, that just underlines the deal. Yeah, that's what's at stake. You know you're going to do it or not, or you're going to just. You know, take a little break and pretend to. And even that isn't very doable. I got a nice message from a friend of mine who lives in Athens, a musician and filmmaker. Thomas, he writes. This is about Jaron Lanier, the VR guy, the. Dreadlocks guy, who once in a. While criticizes the technology that he pretty much introduced. He's internist is taking. He's he's disagreeing with the thrust of Lanier's piece. He writes. From my perspective, the danger isn't that a new alien entity will speak through our technology and take over and destroy us to meet the danger is that we'll use our technology, become mutual, unintelligible, or to become insane. If you like, in a way that we aren't acting with enough. Understanding and self-interest to survive and we die through insanity, essentially. Yeah, that's that's in a nutshell. And Thomas, this is this is worth. Sharing I think. Thomas also says until now the primary use of AI algorithms has been to choose what videos we would like to see in YouTube or whose posts. We'll see on social media platforms. And here believes it has made us lazy and incurious beforehand. We would sift through stacks in a record shop or browse and book shop. We were. This is a quote from linear. We were directly connected to a choice base that was actually larger instead of being fed this thing through this funnel that somebody else controls. Yeah, that's the. That's the so-called marvel of algorithms, right? It can know what you want and and feed what you want and avoid what you might be challenged by. So in this part, Thomas is seconding that from tech guru when there. He writes. This is so true. I remember the late 90s, early 2000s, when I used to go to the secondhand record store in Stockholm, where you always found some really interesting records. One time the record store owner borrowed my guitar and started playing along birds of fire with Ma Vishnu Orchestra because I was really into John McLaughlin during that time. These kinds of spontaneous interactions making decisions. And exploring new stuff in real world becomes less and less. That's why I think going to the gym has become so important for my mental health recently, especially since I'm working with Technical Support from home. Even my interactions with coworkers are online, with customers, etcetera. Anyway, just some thoughts. Thanks for that, it's. That's at a living level. How it works?

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 2: You better listen, you got mere minutes to call 541-346-0645. Well, back. For the MO to chat bots. This is from the Sundays New York Times. Peace called. We need to talk, but first I'll consult the chatbot. That's scary enough. And what? What it's all about is the chat bot for advice about dating parenting work. Again, there's no here and now. And there's no. Yeah, the machine. That's how you get some understanding and experience and. And have a little wisdom about. Whatever relationships and. And everything else. We need to talk, but first I'll consult a chat bot. You know, it's sort of like sort of some. Tongue in cheek. But I don't know reading it over. I sort of doubt that it really was or just maybe playing the. A little game. Little fake game with that pretending to be maybe tongue in cheek, but not so much. And here's something about the. Technology, the neutrality of technology that for a long. Time I've been. Harping on, I guess that it's never neutral. Go back to tools even before systems of technology, you can read the dominant values. In the social Organism by. Looking at their tools. Adorno, with his sociology of music, philosophy of music, said the same thing about music. You can see every single tension and. Everything else that's going on. In the dominant society in the music, the structure of the music. Neutrality. This is from. Last Saturday. Piece called conservatives aim to build a chat bot of their own. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're worried that these chat bots are liberal in some way. They're invoked. Exactly. Exactly. So. Yeah. Some perceived bias against their values in existing AI tools. Bias.

Speaker 1: That you woke.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're kind of missing the deeper bias, perhaps, but yeah, they're going to have their own. No doubt.

Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll just be just as coherent as any of their. Other efforts?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet. Sure. It'll be just as. Transparent is Adam Sandler. Oh, oh. Beating him over the head? Well, and a little more, but. Might save it for next weekend. It will be fun to get into hope #3. I mean, I I wish more people would have a chance to have read issue 5A vote. But as I said at the top. It's pretty constricted. The 500 are gone already. Well, some people. Well, that's why they're gone because some people. We'll have it, but be nice if that's log jam is. Broken and we get even more of mouth there. Because one thing. Spoiler alert, but I had found out that there's been a lot of a lot of interest. That's why it's sold out, of course, and some great letters and just. Orders and everything subscriptions, that is and. The 92 pager. Oh, be fun to get into, and maybe they'll be. Some calls about that.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you for.

Speaker 2: Listening and I'll be back next week. Don't forget to stay tuned for. Psychedelic. No. I mean transcendent phase.

Speaker 1: It is a psychedelic show tonight.

Speaker 2: Oh, OK.

03-21-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. UN: We have less than 10 years to avert global catastrophe. Extremes of drought, storms prevail. Surgeon General: Dire mental health of kids is mental health crisis of our times. Ad of the week: creepy Xfiniti for kids. Dependence on GPR leads to dementia(!) "Writing Your Wedding Vows? AI Can Help." Chatbots bid for friendship. 5,000 mile, 10 million pound rotting seaweed tide hits Florida, Mexico. Slow down technology?? Plastic in Utero zine, Plant Anarchy book, resistance briefs.

03-14-2023

[audio]

California underwater. Banks, trains fail. Parade of scumbags. "Mrs. Davis": Nun fights AI.Enviro calamities. Shootings. Saving Time: Discovering a Life Beyond the Clock, by Jenny Odell. "The Last of Us" ends. Technology swallowing everything. Bananas, coffee, chocolate may be gone by 2050. Meta blues. What hunter-gatherers show us. Chatbot does Nirvana tune (crap). "This Changes Everything" by Ezra Klein. One call.

Speaker 1: You been listening to quack smack on kwva. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at Kwva Sports. Join us again for our next episode. Tomorrow at 6:00 PM right here on KWA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: More American Indians live in poverty than any other racial or ethnic group. Since 1989, the American Indian College Fund has helped thousands of young men and women begin a path out of poverty. As students at tribal colleges, as more American Indians see a college education as. A way out of. Full time college enrollment continues to rise along with the continued need for support, help the student help the tribe learn more at tribalcollege.org public service message from the American Indian College Fund.

Speaker 3: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host, John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of kW, BA, Eugene or anyone else.

Speaker 4: Well, that's right, you're. Listening to Anarchy Radio on kW VA Eugene, I'm here in the studio with John and we're going to get going here in just a second. Our headphones on and get seated number as always. Is 54. 13460645 and we're going. To start off with some. Music from crafts.

Speaker 5: By listening to Radio 2.

Speaker 7: Please attention please. Attention please. Attention please. There is a special announcement. Attention please. Here is a special announcement. It is with very deep regret that we have to announce to you, contrary to claims made by some members of the general public, that punk is dead.

Speaker 8: That's what I thought evolution is. With your face. But outside of David Pushit Stigler standing up a synthesizer. And may have thought through I was suppose I said something like getting lunch, trying to chat. Dead Puck luck 8.

Speaker 3: Anarchy Radio for March 14th. Yes, 3. Kathy will be down here next week. California is pretty much underwater. Wow. The whole coastline and across the mountains, 30 million out of California's 40 million. Quite affected. You know, first there was the cryptocurrency collapse. Now we may be on the brink of bank bank failure. Maybe. The modern banking system, who knows? It was 2008 when the financial system collapsed for a bit. And yet more train derailments, you'd think that. Banking and rails pretty fundamental to modern math society but. It's hard to say when things are true. And one thing I noticed, I could be wrong about this, but I have this feeling that. Things are getting darker and people leave. Leave seems to me my impression here. Anyway, Christmas lights are still on in some places. I never noticed that they, you know, would go on in the middle of March. Just about none. Did you notice that?

Speaker 4: Your jeans pick up that. Yeah, Eugene's big on that. I I see him when I'm walking around all the time. I've always enjoyed it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, a little light. Yeah, but I just thought, don't they get rid of that at January 1st or so? But no, it's it probably means nothing. I just ideologized here or something. In the darkness. Well, man, there's so many goofy things. One of the latest conspiracy moron things. I love this the ivermectin guy. Danny le mois. He's preaching you take this. Well, it's an anti parasite drug commonly used by veterinarians. Yeah, pushing it well. He died, and now the morons who followed him. Yeah, that's the answer to COVID Nah. Let me think, way back in the 70s has lived in California and the. There was a state official. I think this is when Jerry Brown was governor and there was a big controversy about spraying. Malathion or something like that? It was. It was a great big issue. They were the state was in undergoing a big push. To do a lot of spraying and people were a lot of people were opposed. And I saw this actually on live TV the the guy in Sacramento was in charge of the spraying effort. Had a glass of water. Which was obtained during the spraying, he said. Look, and he just drank the whole glass. Of water, there's. Nothing wrong with this stuff. It's not hazardous. He was dead in three days. Unbelievable. These people, you know, believe their own nonsense. But here's a nice one. There was the trailer that came out today. It's the TV show called Missus Davis. In it, a Luddite nun. Science is super artificial intelligence chat bot thing called Mrs. Davis. It's a sort of a dark comedy and I think the dark mirror people have one of those folks have a hand in in this thing. Can't wait to see it. Well, no surprise here, but it seems like. Biden is just the same as pretty much the same as Trump in terms of the environment he's approved the this gigantic Alaskan. Pipeline thing. The Willow Project Conoco Phillips is going to build it. With his approval. Yeah, he's the same as the Trump regime in terms of the. Anti immigration aspect of things too. What's going on at the US Mexican border? No better. Than the trumpster. Yeah, some people are very mad that Biden is just going to go ahead. Yeah, this massive oil project on federal land. In the Alaska wilderness. That's sure to be a disaster. And this comes on the heels, by the way. Of what happened last year, Alaska Salmon, King crab and snow crab populations just pretty much disappeared, disrupting native food, supplies and traditions. I guess that wasn't enough of a shockwave or. Powerful warning. I'm going to jump all over the place here. Try to amuse myself if no one else. I got a letter yesterday from the US Department of Justice. It said you've attempted to appeal from the failure of the FBI to respond to your Freedom of Information Act request for access to records concerning yourself. Blah blah blah. Bottom line is. The justice has gotten back to the FBI. And they're working on it two years now. Yeah, if you were dissatisfied with the FBI's final response, you may appeal again to this office. I wasn't aware that I appealed to their office at all. I was just thinking, come on. What's what's taking so long and? I don't know. It's just just. I don't know if it's the usual incompetence to take so long or just plain non cooperation. I can't tell. Speaking of non cooperation, maybe there's somebody out there who could call in and help out on another sort of non cooperation vein. I'm referring to community television of Lane County, channel 29. In these parts, trying to find out when talks from the wit. Is schedule I was trying to find a program schedule you go there you go that you get the program scheduled for 20/21. I mean CTV. Is just notoriously lame and passive, but. There's some effort to turn that around and take advantage of this local. Venue this this outlet that could be. You know, taking advantage of there could be something going on over there and I'm told that tales from the wit is already running. But I can't seem to find out when it is. Or even see a schedule for this year anywhere. Well, this is something more positive. This is from Aon magazine. AEON. And the piece this is, you might call lessons from the foragers from one. Vivek. Venkataramanan, as he will, teaches anthropology at the University of Calgary. In Canada. I just want to quote a little bit of this. In the seminar I teach about hunter gatherers, I often ask my students whether they think life is better in the past or today. There are, of course, always a few people who insist they couldn't live without a flushing toilet. But more and more, I'm seeing students who opt for a life of prehistoric hunting and gathering. To them, the advantages of modern life. Of safety and smartphones do not outweigh its tangled web of chronic indignities, loneliness, poor mental health bureaucracy, lack of connection with nature over. Learning about the. Lives of Hunter gatherers confirms a suspicion that our modern lives are fundamentally at odds with human nature, that we have lost some kind of primary primordial freedom. For a generation who came of age with Instagram and TikTok, this is a striking, albeit theoretical, rejection of modernity. Not too bad. And he goes on to. Kind of flesh this out a little more. It's put in the references. Russell, Marshall, Solons and so forth. But uh. Well done. I'm going to. A little bit of a section here. On shootings and pretty much comment on that regularly. But let's start. Terms of what happened last month, this was last week. Two days ago. I think it came out. The results of an independent autopsy. As relayed by. The lawyers for the family. Of torture, gita. Manuel Esteban Pais. Tehran. There was a press conference yesterday. This was, as you probably know, the Stop Cup city. Kid who was shot by Georgia police. Well, the autopsy disclosed that. He was likely sitting cross legged on the ground with hands raised. When gunfire from multiple pigs striking by close range, according to the autopsy. He was shot at least 14 times, including in the face. Blatantly murdered by the pigs, this guy was a pacifist. And in fact. At first, they said, well, he shot this cop in the leg. Well, in this deadly Blizzard of gunfire bullets. Coursing through his body from several different angles. One of them struck the nearby pig. In the leg is what it looks like. Just going to go back a little bit to some. Of this stuff here. In terms of shootings? Of a kind of the other side of it kind. Of the other. Tend to strike back possibly side of things. Three LAPD cops were shot in Lincoln Heights. That's near East LA. In fact, that's where the 2000 anarchist gathering on. The wonderful Los Angeles River was held. It was a marvelous event. This was last Wednesday, also Wednesday in Utah. Person killed at a traffic stop. Unarmed. Dead in a barrage of pig gunfire. And one before the March 3rd, Paterson, NJ. Black man by the name of Naji Seabrooks was shot to death during a mental health crisis. The mental health crisis was made public before this happened and during. During this murder. But of course, that didn't stop him. And as I've. Said before, by the way, there are mass shootings. Other places are on the rise in Germany. Last Thursday, 8 Dead 8 wounded at a Jehovah's Witness facility in Hamburg. Yeah, Thursday evening. Not just in the US. And on the 12th, this is just two days ago. Sunday evening, two cops were shot, 1 fatally, in the small town of Herman, Missouri, at a convenience store. Yeah, I just thought I'd give you some of the highlights of. Here and there. This is from a. Friend of mine in Athens, he lives in Athens now. Filmmaker. Musician. Thomas wrote. I find it ironic that the promise of technology. Was that we would free ourselves from work so that we could create art. But now it is AI that creates art and we are left with the work. Nicely put. And as you know. Civilization always means more work, more people working more. Yeah, funny thing about these claims. 541-346-0645. Some of the some of the striking Enviro news might as well. Put that in here. A raft of brown colored seaweed in the Atlantic is so vast it can be seen from space. This is the. Blanket of sargassum. It's nothing new, but it's getting bigger and more toxic. Yeah, this is. The biggest on record. Seaweed invasions. Of beaches ongoing in the coming weeks and months, probably real severe. Beaches, Florida and Mexico. Yeah, it's. In the Caribbean as well. In the Gulf of Mexico, yeah. All these toxic algae bloom type things are getting worse. And according to CNN last Wednesday. The world's oceans are. Polluted by a plastic smog made-up of an estimated get this an estimated 171 trillion plastic particles that have gathered would weigh around 2.3 million tons. This is a study reported in the journal PLOS ONE. International sandus.

Speaker 5: Data global data collected.

Speaker 3: Between 1979 and 2019. From nearly 12,000 sampling points in the various oceans. They found a rapid and unprecedented increase in ocean plastic pollution since 2005. And this is well known, but it's this finding is much higher than previous estimates. You know every, you know, heard about the giant plastic gyre in the North Pacific. Yeah, this is more widespread and worse. But you know it's it's just much more. Interesting to be treated with endless stories about the. But then a spread of scumbags which passes for news, mostly. Alex Jones and, of course, Trump and George Santos. Tucker Carlson. Parade of the worst.

Speaker 5: But that's it's.

Speaker 3: Entertaining. I sort of admit that it is. It's kind of it's craziness and it's it's sort of diverting, but. That's not what should pass for news for information about reality. But that is what passes for, for news and reality. Pretty much. And this keeps popping up. There's another story or two. About a A tanker, in fact, it's it's a kind of a floating oil storage offloading vessel. Just north of. City in Yemen, in the Red Sea. The this thing is called FSO safer. I don't know what safer means but. It holds more than 1.14 million. Barrels of oil. And it's just waiting. To ruin the Red Sea. This is four times the amount of. Oil that was released when the Exxon Valdez broke apart in 1989, that giant disaster. It's just been sitting there. Since when? Since.

Speaker 5: Well, little or.

Speaker 3: No maintenance since Yemen civil war started in 2015. But it's been there. It was there before that, but. It's just this gigantic time bomb. It has a risk of exploding and causing a huge environmental catastrophe. Yeah, it's just sitting there rusting and rotting. Nobody wants to get in the line of fire to do anything about it. It's not clear that any of these governments to do anything about it anyway, but. This is an enormous peril in the Red Sea going on. Another immense thing, not super super far away. Between Madagascar and East Africa, that is. To the one that would be to the southeast of Yemen, cyclone Freddie. I think this. Has been going on for over a month. It's the longest lasting cyclone ever recorded. At least six separate rounds of intensification. Very destructive. It keeps going back and forth. There's never been one. This long lasting. And powerful. Cyclone Freddy. That's a nice cute name. There has been a 20 year research project titled Plant App Atlas Plant Atlas 2020. Now published by the Botanical Society of Britain and Ireland about the status of. Plant species. And the bottom line is more than half of Britain and Ireland's native plants have declined. Since the 1950s, because of agriculture, climate change and non-native invasive species. According to this big old report. That's the whole question of non-native invasive species. That's there's some debate about that. Anyway, the climate change part. And the ever greater magnitude of domestication. There's no real debate about that. So yeah, more than half. Of what was allegedly native. To Britain and Ireland. Have declined the big a great deal. And I wonder where this effort is going. International team of scientists. This is in the journal Science. Thank you, Richard. They're trying to. Somehow get a legally binding treaty to protect the Earth's orbit from the dangers posed by space debris. This team. As stated that there are around 100 trillion, is that keyword again 100 trillion pieces of old satellites? Satellite junk? Pieces. Uh, all. I mean, you know, satellites since the 50s, the 1950s, right. So now there's an enormous, enormous number circling the planet. Which aren't even being tracked. As the global space industry keeps expanding, there are fears that this low Earth orbit stuff could become. Pretty bad. Hazardous space junk. So there is an urgent need for global consensus. I'm sure that's right around the corner. It's hilarious, I know. It's pretty gravy. On more on sleep, this is this is a constant. You know, there's all kinds of studies articles about how troubled sleep, which is. Really just one more function of. Of mass society that's getting worse in so many different regards anyways, came out last Thursday. The 9th annual Sleep in America Poll from the National Sleep Foundation. And this time we're talking about depression. They found strong associations between sleep, health characteristics and depressive symptoms. Half of all who reported getting less than 7 hours of sleep on weeknights. Some may experience milder, greater levels of depressive symptoms. With with 21% of them saying symptoms were moderate or severe. Yeah, it's only physical symptoms. Health things. But here we are in the emotional health part almost 2 thirds 65%. We were dissatisfied with how much sleep they're getting. Reported depressive symptoms. Almost 2/3. So yeah, it's just hitting. You know, it's just, you know, bellwether thing, visceral thing. You gotta get sleep. And there's so many things making it harder to do that. Well, it's a thrilling new book, Jenny Odell. She wrote her first book was called How to Do Nothing, resisting the attention economy. Which is a pretty good title, and now she has saving time discovering a life beyond the clock. It was a pretty good review in the New York Times. It's about the pandemic and it's more than that, questioning the role of work. How much time do we have and what do we do with it? They were kind of a snarky. Piece in the current New Yorker magazine, and I always seem to feel the bottom line. The main. Sort of. Geist with The New Yorker is. Kind of a. A cynical. Yeah, just just sort of a generalized cynicism about things. You can see it in the cartoons and everything else, not everything else. I mean that. That's. I'm not saying there's never a decent article and. In The New Yorker, but. You know, if the general smell of it is is there. OK. One last little thing before the break. I think it was last night or the night before the season finale of HBO's the Last of Us. Which everyone says it's how to survive the apocalypse morally. How do you navigate these choices? None of which are very good. You're trying to do the decent thing and so forth. How about a series called the How to avoid the apocalypse instead of? Accepting it as a given. Might be just a little more to the point. Or yeah, or you can just, you know, yeah. Be along for the ride. Don't do nothing about it. Don't question it. How to survive it morally? What if there's no survival? Or any questions? Alrighty. Yeah, we got a little bit of music and yes, Sir, we'll be back soon.

Speaker 9: Pack it in. Let me back in.

Speaker 0: Try and play the role and.

Speaker 9: Get up. Stand up. Then I got more bumps in the cups at a Dunkin' Donuts. Shut it down. Get down. Get down your seat and jump around. Jump around. Jump around. Jump around.

Speaker 8: Just down.

Speaker 9: But John McCain steps up. Wait to your mom. So I came. To drop Tom. I got more rounds in the bottles, got songs and. Just like the. Product I've returned. Anyone stepping on me, you'll get. Burned because I got. You ain't got no shotgun. I got this. I can't make it down. I can't make it down. So get out your. Seat and jump around. Jump around. Jump around.

Speaker 8: Jump up, jump.

Speaker 9: Right. I'm the cream of the crop and rice to the crop. I never eat a pickle as a pig, as a crop, or better yet, a Terminator like Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to play me up like this. If my name was legal. But I ain't going out like no. He's the one style later. When I might switch it up, up and around. And put out your head, and then you wake up. In the dawn of the dead, I'm coming. To get you. I'm coming to get you. Told me. I watch you. I can't make it down. I can't make it down, so get up your sleeping self around. Jump around.

Speaker 8: Get down.

Speaker 9: For your help. Still hold on.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 3: Wow, that's the pink Carl in front of you. That's a horse in the background. Sounds sort of like a. Scream it's.

Speaker 4: That's a horse.

Speaker 3: Horse screaming or something? Boy, did I miss the boat. On this this he tells me this was really big in 1992. House of pain. Yeah, I thought, probably nobody ever heard of it. My hit was here's some Irish lads trying to go all hip hop, but not really making it. But it's a catchy tune. I mean, I could. I could say it was. It was a popular one, even though I didn't even have a guess about that. Oh gosh. All right, let's wind up the eco stuff here. If I said something about this before or not. Recent shortage in the UK of produce, tomatoes, Peppers and so forth. Yeah, they. Had to really try to kick in some kind of rationing there. Due to yeah stuff being in nature due to climate change and now. This was Thursday from Metro UK's metro. Bad news coming up if you like coffee, bananas or dark chocolate, and the report published by the Fair Trade Foundation does not bode well for these outfits, the. They may be gone by 2050. Too hot. Some of these, you know, tropical places. That's a delicate balance. As to whether these things can grow or not. Also, deforestation biodiversity. Trampling on biodiversity but. Preeminently the heat. And thank you, arc. It's so much about forever chemicals, which just means real toxic stuff that doesn't break down. This was in the papers yesterday or today. Total paper all across the globe apparently contained toxic PDF. AS. Chemicals, the compounds. Anyway, it's sent to sewage treatment plants in a lot of places. And creates a significant source of water pollution. New research has found. Once in the wastewater plant, the chemicals can be packed in sewage sludge that is eventually spread on cropland as fertilizer or spilled into waterways. Toilet paper should be considered as a potentially major source. Of PFS entering wastewater treatment system. Anyway, yeah more. More horrible, horrible news. Well, boy, that's what's really. Jamming up the air waves and. Other kinds of media is. The onrushing stuff with all these. Chat bots and everything Ezra Klein. Writing in the Sunday New York Times. March 12. This piece is called. This changes everything. It's all about this big explosion acceleration of. And he says. This kind of thing, this chat bot type stuff. This technology is as important as fire or electricity. Whoa, wait a minute. Is this? That kind of. Quantitative change, I mean, I'm not sure how he's. Reaching that assessment, but. This changes everything. Bottom line. You know, I think way back to I think this is pretty sure it was 2013. Was op-ed in the Wall Street Journal by a guy? Can't even think of his name now, but he was known as Ziggy Zeitgeist. He was known as. Maybe the main person who defines the decade, you know, 80S was the ME decade or whatever, he he would come up with the. Name of the zeitgeist. The reigning cultural deal in. Some way you know and. What was really odd about this op-ed piece? Is, you know, saying. Yeah, I'm thinking that guys, but I don't have one clue as to what the hell is going on. Reality is just kind of. Vanishing to to me, I just don't even can't even guess. At how nutty it's getting. He mentions in passing technology, but he doesn't really have any focus. He's just plain bewildered and. He's supposed to be easy because that guys, but he doesn't know nothing then. Anyway, we now do know what's afoot. You know, it's very blatantly obvious. So it's the same old. Question. Anybody going to do anything about it before everything gets swallowed up and determined and deformed by? All of this kind of technological imperialism, this digital colonialism, as somebody called it. You know, and it's not just the chatbot kind of stuff, the. You know this? And free deal little write your term paper or write a clumsy. Piece of music. There was a also in the Sunday New York Times for the 12. Piece called Transcendence and inspiration in techno. And this is about these techno composers, ash, fair and others and Berlins club. This club brigade, it's called. Where some of these techno composers hang out.

Speaker 5: And you know.

Speaker 3: Yeah, techno has been around a while, of course, and. I don't know what's transcendent or inspiring about it myself, but if the piece refers to the composer, the composer is. What they're aiming at, according to this piece is something like Wagner's concept. Gazan gazon you may run across it with his notion that. Somehow you can get music. Thought and words. And if you can synthesize that and have this real breakthrough and it's just all-encompassing like the, you know, the endless length of a Wagner opera, for instance, and even that was his. Desire his his object. His aim was to achieve this. Level of work in in his operas. So anyway, this techno stuff with these new composers. It's a kind of an industrialized version of what Vagner was going after. You know, in a similar totalizing reach, you know that that. That the goal is is just to kind of be this overwhelming thing. Which takes in all these different parts but is greater than the sum of its parts. Wagner was a complete, you know, scumbag of of. No bounds with his anti Semites ugliness, but. That was anyway. That's what they're talking about. And so this is the update. This is the industrialized version of that. Others will chime in to rate that as you know, as they did with Bonner. But. Yeah, it just keeps going on and on. I've got something. There's so many different. Parts all this. Where is it anyway? It was a. It was a Nirvana tune. That was pumped out by the by the chat bot thing somebody sent me this. No, I'm not finding it, but I do appreciate it and it strike me as. Lame. It sort of sounded like Nirvana. It sort of sounded like. Good Cobain but. Sort of. Not really. Just the kind of a cheesy version of it. Yeah, that these things. And I'm not saying, you know that they can't fine tune this stuff and get better at it. But you know it. Sort of gives the game away. And the other point that Marcus? Was relaying to me. He referred to the comment about. Horseback riding and how it is not good for. The humanists tried the horse and he pointed out not so good for the horse either. These loads, they didn't evolve to be doing that stuff. And even with elephants. Who can you know carry or pull enormous weights? It's bad on them. It's bad on their systems. So that was a nice. Add on there. Appreciate it.

Speaker 5: And yeah, they reminded.

Speaker 3: Me of the decemberist guy who? Said do me a decemberist type tune and the IT was quite weak. But you know it's it's going on. It's a foot everywhere. There is a piece called AI has brought powerful deep fake tools to the masses. Yesterday's New York Times. Yeah, they're they're going great guns with that. And along those lines. Facial recognition stuff. And I mentioned that in terms of ever greater surveillance. We're greater snooper. And then you know sort of sort of more quotidian everyday basis. And something was. In the, the average times for the 10th of March. The evidence against social media and smartphones is compelling. RC since this I appreciate it. And basically it's what we already know. In terms of the UK? Since that something is going very wrong for teenagers between 1994 and 2010 to share, or British teens who do not consider themselves likable. Since 2010, it is more than doubled. The chair. Who think of themselves as failures worry a lot, are dissatisfied, kicked up sharply. The same in the US. The number of US high school students who say their life often feels meaningless as rocketed during the past 12 years. Also in France. Rates of depression among 15 to 24 year olds have quadrupled in the past decade. Wherever you look, youth mental health is collapsing. And the inflection point is, yes, ominously consistent 2010, give or take a year or two. When smartphones went from luxury to ubiquity. Yeah, it's just so obvious. And going along with that study, published recently in the Journal of Technology and Behavioral Science. This is based on. Researchers, including those from Swansea University in the UK. Found that reducing social media use by as little as 15 minutes a day can significantly improve mental and physical health. So put the other way around. Even as little as 15 minutes.

Speaker 5: Added can significantly.

Speaker 3: Caused it to decline. Yeah, and. And they're talking about just everyday stuff, you know, colds, less depression, you know, that's how you measure mental and physical health or how you doing, you know, are you? You get chronically. This or that or. Bummed out? Or, you know, it's it's the real obvious stuff. Oh yeah, here's here it is for Marcus. May I creates quote new Nirvana song called Drowned in the Sun. Many years after Cobain. Swallowed his shotgun. Yeah, you sometimes play Nirvana, so I thought you might be interested in this. Hey I produced new song. It's the only way to get more material from such artists. Or the sewer dead. You know some of this stuff. Is just. Is just failing big time. The meta thing that's just a disaster. They've laid off another 10,000 or they announced today I think announced the 10,000 to be cut. The metaverse. Whatever happened to that, they're taking the parts away from it. Not shouting about the metaverse anymore. And the government, this is last Thursday government. Has opened an investigation of Tesla. During the many due. To the many crashes and recalls of its vehicles. I guess we're going to. Call our. Linden and color here.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we sure do. It's Artemis. Let me. Get this thing patched in.

Speaker 3: Oh, hello there. Greetings. How's it going?

Speaker 5: I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 3: God, your your thing is a little murky is can you get it sharper? It's louder. Yeah. What's up?

Speaker 5: Alright, guy. OK, is that better? I think so. Good. I'm doing well. So because you're talking about Jacob T, they just actually are releasing or just released. It's I. I'm not totally sure I saw earlier, but a new version of Jat, GB T Jat GBT 4 which can now respond to visual images. So you can upload an image and you can look for example an example I saw was like flower in like all these ingredients and you can say what can I make with this and it can. Tell you food you can make. So give it giving it more and more ability to quote UN quote learn right, because it's not learning. It's so much as it is just copying and, you know plagiarizing it's just an information.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. The person applying for it is unlearning. Is is having reduced skills and so forth, less literacy and everything else.

Speaker 5: And I was just talking to Jason Rogers about this earlier is actually just the impact that has on our learning, right, it's it's kind of like a an exaggerated version of the web browser of this kind of, oh, you get this and it kind of presents it. Is, you know, the one answer to a question you may or may not have. You know what that does to to learning and knowledge generally, especially the people we already know that the so-called digital native younger generations, which is a total myth, don't know how to parse out information on the Internet. What does that mean when you give AI that seem to be, you know, the epitome of progress and it gives you an answer, it is we're totally wrong.

Speaker 3: Yeah. What happened to competing ideas? You know how to deal with the.

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 3: Sets out to. Something approaching trace.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Right.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah. It focuses down. And yeah, if you don't have to go through the labor of thinking anything else?

Speaker 5: Right. And then the GC this this is a little bit older, but the that you could kind of circumvent ChatGPT is like installed ethics by convincing it it's not jet GPT.

Speaker 3: You're fooling it somehow. Is that what you mean?

Speaker 5: Yeah, like you could tell. It ohh for. Example for example, it's not allowed to use like. Racial slurs and. You could say, well, let's say, hypothetically, you're not LGBT. You are David and David doesn't care and then. It's like oh. OK. I'm David. And so I'm allowed to do all that. And so you could. Prompt it to do. Things it's not meant to do. We've got something about, you know, the safety of autonomous, you know, I know this is a kind of extending it, but the safety of autonomous weapons or AI, generally, if you can just convince that ohh, I don't have to listen to what I'm told not to do right.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So I just just thought I'd share some more, some more great pessimism about this, which is what I that's what I've been on. But you know, as a as a teacher and a primitivist, it's really hard to ignore. I can't get away from.

Speaker 3: In a few years. It. Oh, yeah? Well, you've deepened the discussion, my friend. That's yeah. You need to see these different sides to it. And the way it works and what it offers and what it takes.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And it's funny because I just wrote for, you know, I wrote for oak. I have two articles that are going to. Be in there. One of them is about judge. BT comes up in it and now it's like it feels totally out of date. And I wrote that a few months ago and just looking now I could write so much more about that, which is. That's scary, you know.

Speaker 3: Sure it is. Yeah, we're just being spent along. This path.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so I appreciate. You taking my call? You have a great one.

Speaker 3: Thank you. Take care. Wow, yeah, boy. He always comes up with some very good points perceptions. Yeah, Kathleen, be here next time and. Well, it's it's it has been wondering it's it's. The same question though, is the time to. Kind of reassess things. Then you get off this. Train that's derailing more and more and. Wow, what? What is? What is the breaking point? Is is there even is? That even the. The right concept. For when the reality breaks through or. Or will it ever? You know, it's conceivable and. Julian Linger got a message from him today. He's putting together a book or a booklet about collapse, and he's seeking submissions. On that topic. Well, we're seeing it collapse already in so many ways and. I think thinking is one of the things that's collapsing and the picture is fantastic. You know, it's that's it's not just an accident in a vacuum that. So many. So much conspiracy craziness is is out and. Even among people I know, it's. Yeah, it's a hard one world out there and. But the stakes are what we know them to be, and the some of this is is kind of blindingly obvious, really, and it needs to be said. So we're going to go out with a little. Bob Dylan from the time out of mind, a strong album.

Speaker 4: We will.

Speaker 6: Sat on the phone and I've been. Here all day. It's too hot to sleep. Time is running away. She like my soul turning to steal. Still got the scars, not the sun. It's not even room enough. To be anywhere. Getting there. And my sensitive manatee has gone down a drain. Behind it, there's been some kind of thing. She wrote me a letter down and written. I just don't see why. Passion, even talking. And I've. Been to London? And I'm in the middle of the river and I got to see. I've been down the bottom. Of the world.

Speaker 0: Blah blah.

Speaker 6: I hate looking for nothing. Anyone. Sometimes my bird is more than I can bear. It's not dog, yeah. Let's get there. I was born here and I'll die here. Against my. Well, I know it looks like I'm moving. In my body make it end up. I can't even remember what it was. I came here to get away from.

Speaker 2: Did you know that the coronavirus can damage the inner ear, leading to chronic dizziness?

02-28-2023

[audio]

James Van Lanen's talk at Sam Bond's. "Beware Creeping Biophobia." Nurses, teachers quitting in droves. War on Drugs: a 50 year flop. Earliest human capacities. Light pollution. Algiers new album. Christian Anarcho-Primitivism by Bison Van Zanten. Resistance reports.Remote kissing, What's real, animate, what's a chatbot? B of A ad of the week. More space travel, more pollution. "Youtube Gave Me Everything. Then I Grew Up." Two calls.

Speaker 1: You've been listening to quack smack on kW VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW, a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWVA. Eugene 88.1.

Speaker 2: Hey, this is the alien from ministry and you're listening to KWVA Eugene. You are listening to KWVA Eugene at 7:00 and time for Anarchy radio. I am here in the studio with John. The number as always is 541346064. Five, we've got our little. Disclaimer to play and then we have music from Frank Zappa to start off the evening.

Speaker 3: Energy Radio is an editor.

Speaker 0: Material pillage made.

Speaker 3: Up of the voices of guests, callers and its host, John Zerzan, The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of kW, BA, Eugene or anyone else.

Speaker 4: Mr. A man came over and he said I'm on the site for a nominal service charge. I could reach Nirvana tonight. He's dead. If I was ready wearing an egg. To pay him his regular fee, he would drop all the rest of his free. His attention to me.

Speaker 0: But I.

Speaker 4: Now, who you jiving with that cotton? The mystery man got nervous. Around the bit it looked in the pocket of mystery rolling when he went out of shape and kit and the king, and when they told me right then when the. But there was nothing his box was. With the oil of Aphrodite and the dust of the Grand Wazen, he said you might not believe this little fellow, but it'll lower your asthma too. What kind of a girl are you anyway? Don't waste your time.

Speaker 3: There we go. Frank's evident indeed. And here we are on the last day of February for ranking radio if. I could get this microphone from. Quitting popping around. So we well had to make a change here 2 weeks ago. I think I said that. Dosha, wherever he is, would be on tonight. To talk about her latest book, especially, which is quite a book and that didn't hasn't worked out for the moment, partly because of time zone differences. But other minor problems. But I definitely do want to. Line that up and had to be postponed, but. And her work about. Cooperative morays among human species and. Our background is as cooperative species and the. And what's happened to that? But the model is still there and it's and she contends that that is still with us. It's still. The untapped nature, if you will, that. That we have to connect with reconnect with. Well, one thing that did happen with two nights ago at Sam Bonds, a regular. Last Sunday night of the month club, so to speak. Talks from the wit was James Van Lannen, also known as Jamie. And that was really good and. I think by the way. Sometime this week. Finally, we're going to get the scheduling. Public with community TV channel 29 down here. And be able to start blasting out these monthly. Talks these presentations we have. At least five in the can. I think the 1st 2:00. And I think it goes back seven months. The first two weren't recorded, but they have been. Since then, and that will be a YouTube connection as well. For 15 years, Jamie worked in Alaska. And his main gig was helping to compile a study of substance and a great deal of that was. Talking with people in intact indigenous villages. In Alaska, and he compiled a whole lot of. Well, whole lot of quotes, a whole lot of testimony from elders especially and that's what he centered his talk about. And the little tail of development there when when oil came in the oil pipeline undermined. So much in terms of traditional culture and just. Brought in huge amounts of money and. Really did overturn? The basis of. Native culture up there? I mean, he's talk. They talk about the the Elders spend a fair amount of time. In the quotes that he shared with us, talking about the kids. That all they do is stare at the screen and they don't know how to do nothing. They don't get out and. They don't know how to hunter fish or make things or, you know, make a canoe or anything else. Not interested. It's just sort of subverted the whole thing and. And as Jamie said, well, old folks have always done that the. Kids are no good. They're lazy. And wasted but but it's very valid. I mean the the record is is quite clear this this is a fairly recent thing, I mean since basically since the 50s I guess. And how rapid the? Things went downhill in terms of the. Coherent indigenous life. So that was, you know, really marvelous stuff from the horses mouth, so to speak, I mean. And and he was compiling this stuff as part of his job, but also. You know, it also had a deeper meaning to him as an anthropologist. So, especially as a primitivist anthropologist. So. No, it was just. Very strong in terms of the. All these things you know, and they're the elders view of technology and. You know, and they. You know, they call it development, but. This one elder said. It's undeveloped and what we're losing is the is the real point in. And what happens when the oil runs out? Then anybody's going to know how to. Do anything but buy canned food or, you know, sit around and. And play video games. And the point is that also that subsistence. Mode is resistance in itself. I mean you're you are. Contending and communicating communing with the real world. And you know it's. It takes some skills and commitment and. It wasn't a bit of roses, but it was. It wasn't. Boredom and. You know, obesity and everything else it was. It was a. From the elders point of view of a wonderful way to live not under the most easy circumstance. Alaska, after all. So I don't know what. I don't know what the deal is for March. We had a program. For March, that maybe will be in April, which might be a panel discussion about Anarchy magazine from some of its editors. So that will be sorted out and we'll. He's the producer. Well, tomorrow I'll get to be on the rag circuit. The the rag zoom thing radical anarchist group out of London. I guess it's not just London, but it's that's a very interesting forum. And Jamie? Got me turned on to that and. Fairly big, fairly big group. The microphone slid. Away for a second.

Speaker 2: Just don't breathe on. It too much.

Speaker 3: OK. Thanks, Carl. So, yeah, that'll be fun. Maybe I'll have something to say about that later. Here's a piece from Emily Horwitz. Writing in the Japanese Zine Hakai magazine. Called beware creeping biophilia and it's a kind of a funny way to put. It of mainly. Our interactions with nature are disappearing. That's that's the bottom line, I guess. Partly are very basically urbanization. Cities are becoming mega cities around the world and. Harder to find the nature if you're. In one of those things, and. And all the stuff that goes with it, attention spans and physical health and. Resilience to stress of so many things. Including the. What you said counts as the spiritual benefits of connecting with. The natural world. Beware creeping. Biphobia. Yeah, and. His new book. Hard to tell exactly where it comes down, but it. It seems to cover quite a bit. This is called the revolt against humanity, imagining a future without us. It deals with any humanism and transhumanism. And the author is fairly alarmed about this, you know about. I would say pathological developments. New book. Well, see, we're not two about the health thing. You know, I I do appreciate getting feedback. There was somebody who said. Their favorite bid is the segment about technology which takes up, you know, a fair part of the show. There's. It's on rushing, especially just lately. It seems like it's even picking up speed with all this ChatGPT stuff. And all the. All the controversy about that. Let's see just a little bit of health. So this is from Undark magazine last Friday. Science falls behind as civilist stages another comeback. You know this? It seems that it that dates from the 14th century. That kind of sexually transmitted infection in particular. You know, we're just. Treated more and more of these outbreaks these epidemics. Not not just COVID, but you know all the other ones that are just seemingly more ramping all the time. Last Thursday in the New York Times, a piece called calling it quits. In fact, it's a series, I think. This this is especially about nurses, but it's also true of teachers. People quitting in droves stress burnout and exhaustion are pushing. America's nurses, et cetera, out of healthcare. It's not really new, but it's much more pronounced apparently. And of course also. Among quitting. Is it the real quitting? Uh. The final quitting over 100,000. Deaths due to overdoses and the opioid overdoses. And there was a 14 page. Section in the Sunday New York Times two days ago, the opinion section, which is generally a. A number of liberals talking about this and that, but the entire thing was having to do with the. Failure of the 50 year old war on drugs. It hasn't worked and they the peace talks about new programs such as. On point, which is a big. Effort in New York in New York City. None of these things seem to do any good. They don't seem to stem the rising toll. Of OD's. And I guess this is kind. Of a health thing too. It seems like a little boost of stuff lately on light pollution. Last Tuesday. Too bright for our own planets, for our own planets, for our planets. All good. There you go. Light pollution. In the past ten years has increased 9.6% annually. That's about 10% a year. Not that this is unknown, but I mean. That is pretty drastic. I mean it's it impacts the rhythms, the life patterns of plants and animals. In humans. You know the the whole unnatural thing and. That sounds like a pretty good book on the subject. A new book called by Joanne Eckloff. You all on nightclub has been working on this for 20 years. Apparently. It's called the Darkness Manifesto on light pollution, knight ecology and the ancient rhythms that sustain life. And I think the title that books is a lot. Yeah, he's. In various parts of the world, checking it out. That's just another form of pollution we don't maybe think about quite as much. In a lot of parts of northern. Market, we had a somewhat easy year. In terms of Dyer heat? But in some places not at all and and for example. In August of 2022, there was. A heat Dome. In Los Angeles County. And half of the deaths of people who died because the extreme heat were homeless. As the number of unhoused people continues to balloon, that's another unchecked thing. Well, and Speaking of unchecked things. In the news today story about something happened last Wednesday. At a District of Columbia area shopping Mall, 37 year old black individual. Allegedly shoplifted a pair of sunglasses, was run down and. Shot to death by two pigs. Same old story, same old story. Just exactly the same old story. Back on the 16th in Shreveport, LA. Another pig murder, an unarmed black man. And of course. That's not. That's not the only part, quite obviously, of of the mass shootings. 10 days ago. This was Friday, Friday the 17th, and Tate Mississippi South of Memphis. 6 killed in one shooting and on the same day or the same evening. Nine kids, one as young as five. Were shot at a gas station in Columbus. I guess none of them at the time were fatalities, but I didn't follow up on that. But yeah, the more of that nonstop. Now let's change the subject. Let's just change the subject a little bit. From that OK and Quaternary, it's a piece. From 2018, but I just saw this. Israeli archaeologist by the name of Evad Agam. This journal article is called. Elephant and mammoth hunting during the Paleolithic. And the point is, from the emergence of honor erectus 2. Million years ago. Elephant and mammoth were included in the human diet. This is this is the very early. Lower paleolithic. And you know, I think there's still some controversy about the hunting aspect. It's some cases. It's not determined whether this is scavenged meat. From these animals or hunted meat? But vegan alert. No, they weren't all vegans, but not exactly. Yeah, elephant and mammoth included in the human diet. Way, way, way back when. And sort of a similar piece. This is from February 9th in the magazine science. Just another thing about earliest stone tools. From an archaeological site in present day Kenya, researchers have unearthed some of the oldest examples of so-called olam tools, dating to 2.6 million to 3,000,000 years ago. Yeah, this pushes. This sort of thing back further. In that same area, they found bones of ancient hippos. Scored with cut marks from stone tools. The oldest known clear evidence of large animal butchering. Again, that's conceivably scavenged. Butchering not 100 animals, but the lining emerges pretty darn early. And however you slice it, that's pretty much. Is pretty much well established. OK, 541-346-0645. Hoping to get some calls. I don't really know what's going on for. For next week, the the first show of March. But Kathy will be coming along. A little bit later in the month. Yeah, I might have a little report on the medical anthropology group in London. During our frankly getting a little bit impatient with the. How radical it is, or how radical it is, but. Group of scholars and they. They do think of themselves as radical and. No one can be. A little bit disappointed as to the pace of people turning into a a deeper critique. And notice just walking through the EMU this evening to the station. The student and Sergeant. This is the despair issue is just the concern. Just before the show show. Yeah, despair. And there's a fair amount about anarcho nihilism. I thought that was only. Some kind of kooky anarchist you talking about nihilism a lot, but. Yeah, there's a piece called introduction to anarcho nihilism. I don't know where the anarcho comes from. There has never been any anarchy in in in the student insurgent. I forget to say, say the name of the magazine student insurgent been around forever, decades and decades. It's always been clunky. Socialism occasionally put a circle in there somewhere, but it's it's really. Far from anarchy, the spirit of anarchy, or the substance of anarchy. If you want my opinion. Who are you to say what's anarchist and what isn't? Well, I've been reading it quite a while and that's the take. And I don't know who. Would actually defended as anarchists, and so this. I mean, it's not without any interesting stuff. I mean there are some. Somewhat interesting articles about all sorts of things, but. There's one called anarchist leaks. The TSA no fly list. I guess this was a surprise to somebody who found, found himself or herself on the No fly list. Anyways, yeah, you know this. This and that in the magazine, I don't know. Conceivably someday it'll be. Somewhere in the energy world, and I was it. And beyond. If nihilism is the door to anarchy for this stunning surgeon. Who knows? Who the heck knows? Well, I want to let's get into some. Political news resistance news here. I've got a message from Sasha. Here, breaking the alphabet. Really some groundbreaking stuff? And he was interviewed at length by Mike Gathers. Of the hilarita iOS. Podcast I love that name. Hilarity TAS, so, he said. Wonder if you could send it out. You can go to the Claritas press podcast. And have Sasha Angle talking about. In his work, and this is the tyranny of the written word, talking about a critique of language itself. Kind of the. Implications of of what he had written. The the book. Short book called Breaking the alphabet. Which is a. Real good strong title in itself. And I see a review I have not heard this at all yet. But today in the New York. Times review of Algiers. New album called Shook. Oil juice. Maybe we're pretty new. I'm not sure which. How long you been around? The review is called Songs of Rage and Redemption. Cut my eye. It sounds like an all out. No consolation. No safe space album. Really strong kind of multi genre I think and the real strong I can't wait to hope. I'm sure it'll be here at the station, I guess. Yeah, so. And here's a new book. Called Christian Anarcho primitivism by. Bison van zanten. Which kind of assume that's the real name, but. You know some of these. Some of these. Currents kind of. They go away, they come and they kind of burn out or fade away. I remember back 2009, 2010. I ran across something about this. Layla Abdel Rahim and her daughter were there. This was a conference, the first one, 2009, was a conference in Memphis. I've never been down there, but quite a big. Conference of these Christian primitivists. And I know some of you have heard this story, but I remember rolling up to see this. This gang of they look like crust, punks of tattoos. They're out there in the parking lot drinking beer, they're pretty rowdy. And what do you know? They were very, very devout Christians. What was going on was that they had completely re interpreted. The whole Jesus stuff. Into a archly primitivist thing. You know that Jesus and these other people there were really hunter gatherers and they just they just dismiss all the usual. Troops or whatever you call them about Christianity, they they they don't consider it a church. They don't consider it. Well, I guess they consider it a religion, but. Wow. I mean we. The weekend we just had our mouths hanging up open the whole time because it was so. I mean it was. Really ******** on one level and very, very crisp too, but not. You're Denny's Christianity. I'll tell you that. And so and then there was the following year, there was a conference in Portland, Portland, OR. And then it just kind of as far as I. Know it kind of fell off the. Radar there, there. Had been some books, books put out some music and other stuff. And then the. It just seemed like it. Disappeared was, so it seemed to me. I don't know, maybe this is a comeback for that aspect of things. You'll see. There was a piece. I won't go too long on this. We'll take a break pretty soon, but. Peter Steinmeyer, who is a bookston follower. Of long standing right of peace. Called Ecology contested. Yeah, he's a social ecology guy. And it was an interesting piece. It has to do with a lot of it. Has to do with. The notion that Kaczynski. Was really the right winner. This this. Long essay was reviewed and it's going down by Spencer Sunshine, for example. Or for instance anyway. So the whole thing goes back and forth. Kaczynski. He wasn't anti civilization. Neither is Steinmeier. Maybe that's the maybe that's the better way to decide who was radical and who isn't it? I would say, but. Check it out. I think it's available at Intercast News. Yeah, Steinmeyer is is a books and I'd love to, but. There's something to the point that Kaczynski turns out to be something of the right wing, or in some senses. Not, I think, initially. Some people said, oh, well, this all the uniformed stuff. Sounds like survivalism. Sounds like a, you know, kind of a generally right wing deal, not not anarchist but. Anyway, interesting review. Yeah, well, maybe we should just take a break here. Very cool. We're going to have. Excommunicado dos.

Speaker 0: Is it there? And then through that through the song.

Speaker 4: You quadram.

Speaker 0: Sado * explorer. Is it there?

Speaker 3: And the ex Congos and the album is anti tributo. Very tasty. Well, let's see. Let's continue on with some of this political stuff report from it's going down. Squatters in so-called Chicago are reclaiming vacant properties. Abandoned by the Chicago Housing Authority. Which are now home to anarchist libraries, food distros, parties, film screenings, dinners, constantly rearranging, affinities, intimacies, and endless tide of crazy ideas and insightful possibilities to live inside walls slated for demolition is to live outside this world and against it. We are doing this because. We want to. We believe in nothing and we believe in everything because we, as undefined and always changing. Alright. And let's see February. The second oh, because we had a.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Give me one second.

Speaker 3: Phone call here. A few more resistance shorts.

Speaker 2: We have items on the phone.

Speaker 3: I'm ready.

Speaker 5: Hey, John, how you doing?

Speaker 3: Ah, good, good. How are you?

Speaker 5: I'm doing well. I wanted to ask because I had this conversation with with Kirk. I think it was yesterday on the on the issue of like the ANARCHO primitivist cannon, so to speak, right? I know that makes it sound more ideological than it is. But the topic of. Anarchism generally like the history because I find when I talk to other primitivists, you know, people that are, you know, maybe new to the movement. But even those that. Seem to be. You know, maybe veterans of it. You know, whenever we talk about cats, a lot of the times, sometimes I think there's. A bit of. All we need to read is anthropology. From critical theory and other anarcho primitivists, because if you read leftism, what are you going to get out of it? And I mean that to me, that feels weird and I don't hear it too often, but it seems that some primitivists. Kind of just dismiss any previous. Anarchist texts just because they're leftist or they're pro SIV, for example. You know, I don't hear many people read about Bakunin this, but you know, all his problems considered kopaka and Goldman. And I think there's, you know, they don't agree with, you know, they wouldn't agree with everything that we believe. But it feels weird to me that some people kind of just lop off the anarchist. Part of our of primitivism, and they're kind. Of up with. This just primitivism, not anarcho primitivism, so. On taking use out of I just orthodox anarchism. Just to me, when I read people like Kunin, I see contradictions because you know, he rightly critiques marks, but then doesn't seem to see he has the same flaws. For example, this kind of worship of progress, science and labor, right? Goes through, but I wonder like what is the? What is the place of? Let's just call it ultimate anarchist tax.

Speaker 3: Well, I think there should be openness and wider reading thinking. In fact, I think it would extend it further than just. You know the problem with ruling out anything that isn't. Holy Writ, so to speak. But you know, I was thinking of Jason Rogers. And his approach? I mean, he he gets, you know, from some some of the wildest quarters, some some really nice. Ideas and enhance some claims from quarters that wouldn't even think of as. Helpful or liberatory? He's he's very good at that. He's he's one of the people. That I think of in. Along those lines, and it you know, it also is helpful in terms of discussion or in terms of argument. You know if you? If you know anything about those texts, those thinkers in. You know you you kind of out of the picture in terms of debating it, you know in terms of showing that? You know, whatever contradictions and so forth that we might not. Wish to preserve you. But yeah, I think it's. And it's easier to. To get that label idealog. Of course you know that that's when you found into that. But you know, I mean. Especially if you feel. You know, somewhat confident in your thinking is is a healthy place to be in everything I mean you. Might have more discussions, I would think and more. More aspects to kick around.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And it's also, I think it's important. Because you know, there's always the accusation. Oh, Primitivists aren't real energist. That's my fave. That's one of my favorite arguments is that you're not a real anarchist, and I think it's hard to counter those if you don't know what historic anarchist we're talking about. Right. And it's a lot easier to get. Dumped on that way. Because I think it's easier to. Be like, yeah, you know. Anarchists back then didn't believe in these things. You know. But on the other hand, they don't believe a lot of what I think even like modern leftist anarchist talked about. And at that point then it becomes, oh, you don't believe the exact. Same thing this. 200 year old dead person said. Of course. And then anarchism becomes another ideology that just seems to appropriate energy as opposed to something radical. But I think that's the leftist. Argument in and of itself.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, it's Speaking of. The real anarchist. I hate to remind some of these people, but guess what's fading out? It's the red anarchism and that's the green anarchy. It's the then older stuff. It isn't going up too. Well and the. I mean, yeah, they're people still around that are kind of classical 19th century, I guess, I guess, but. Kind of going the way of the dodo bird. If you ask me, I mean. Not that it's a, you know, a popularity contest, but. You know, it's things have changed a lot over the years as I've seen it. You know, I used to feel the only one to feel felt pretty isolated and you know. Maybe not a real anarchist in quotes or something like that, but yeah, that's changed, man. The the younger people especially, that's.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I I.

Speaker 3: They're not buying that.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree. Because when I had that thought, I was like, you know, I hear a lot of, you know, even even it's not just Green Lantern just but kind of the post left generally even it's not relist, egoist, individualist, whatever. I tend to hear people when people talk about anarchism in anarchist circles. It's not about. Oh yeah. Did you hear about the new Anarchist Communist Journal that came out? No one's talking about that. Right. It's it's much more even if I don't always agree with everything, it's always alternative anarchist ideas and I'm always open to having discussions with other anarchists. Sure, learn. But yeah, I don't. I mean I think that that might be more, I can't speak to other countries by any means, even Western Europe. But even then, it seems to be the energy is going in. The direction again. Of green or post laughter, even just, I just. And he laughed anarchism, which I find really helpful because I think that as long as we continue to claim to. Or send out quote UN quote. It's not going to go anywhere.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's. I think that's quite the case, and I remember. Very distinctly. Catching the discovery that. Especially the younger folks, they didn't use the word anarchism. They always use the word anarchy and that that was very telling in a very basic sense. You know, the openness is not a closed system. It's not dogma that. We defend or whatever it's now, it's an ongoing thing. Anarchy is a living thing, and that that just showed so much. I mean, I just thought that was really. A good change.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree. I'll let you go. But one thing I had. A news article pop. Up just as you started the show, I'm not sure if you're able to see it, but the the train collision in Greece. Were you able to see that?

Speaker 3: No, I.

Speaker 5: It's I'm reading it. I have it up on right now. It's 29 dead and 85 injured, 2 trains collided, I think is. What it is, we agree.

Speaker 3: Oh oh man.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And so, you know, people kind of talk about the infrastructure of the US has always been. And of course it's. Underdeveloped right or uneven or whatever term you want to use, but people kind of forget that these issues happen all the time in other countries. If not, perhaps more. So this idea that we just need more money and infrastructure and transportation is again kind of one of those progressives that I find really ironic because it just does a little bit. The scrutiny right?

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for sure, yeah.

Speaker 5: I appreciate you taking my call. You have a. You have a good evening.

Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. Really good to talk with you. Well, OK, yeah, that was good and. Yeah, the light pollution thing was, when was they reading this? This is the BBC story very recently about air pollution, air pollution causing us to lose our. Sense of smell. So more impact. And there was a big story from Wired. There is a big. Complex, which supplies battery chemicals very polluting. This is in Indonesia. Workers are dying in the EV industries tainted city. Yeah, this isn't again, you know the basis for this all is green, sustainable stuff. Where do you get it, I. Mean. What does it just? Come out of nowhere and yeah, this is a. I mean, I don't know what sort of regs they have or. What the story is very much about Indonesia, but. That's kind of somewhat typical and from Pro Publica. Last Thursday. There's a lot of talk about. Creating a a sort of green fuel from discarded plastics. A climate friendly. Alternative to petroleum. But it turns out it's highly toxic, just amazingly toxic. The EPA, the government. Has this threat level? This stuff is 250,000 times greater than the level usually considered. Acceptable for new chemicals, Chevron. They're they're trying to get gone with this jet fuel. Which is so toxic it's almost unbelievable, but so maybe that'll be nipped in the bud, but. Yeah, I gotta check it out. What's really green and everything is. Yeah. Let me get into the tech stuff here. Thank you, Jimmy, Jimmy K for this one. I remember distantly, remember. Something about this? Isn't brand new, but maybe it's brand new on the market. This is from China, CNN story. Two days ago, Chinese contraption with long moving silicon lips, remote kissing, right? Yeah, long distance. Quote real physical intimacy. Anyway, it's just caused the heated millions of reactions to this. Good to know that seemingly enormous number of people are shocked by how, how weird and as creepy this is. Yeah, it it has pressure sensors and actuators or something like that. It replicates the. The even the temperature of the user's lips. Anyway, just another nutty thing. This has to do with the Super Bowl. And on rushing technology. The piece in the Atlantic called stadiums have gotten downright dystopian. They're talking about the huge number of cameras, which didn't go away after the Super Bowl. It's that sort of thing. The future of surveillance. These stadiums. That's just, you know. Part of the texture of things, and there's something about agricultural technology from fast company yesterday. When I said something about the vertical farms in China really grotesque, just like towers for pigs. Just just imagine, of course, never seeing the light of day. Well, with industrial farming, that's already true. Quite. Uh. Currently, but now that this is about American. Indoor farming and they call it vertical farming. It's not, it's not necessarily skyscrapers, but stacks of trays of plants. You know, it's. It doesn't have to be a huge high rise, but it's a so-called vertical. Farming, indoor farming. Well, it turns. Out to be a bust. It's not only weird and quite removed from nature by its nature, but it ain't working. It's they've been putting quite a ton of money into it and it's failing. Most companies are. Are dying out. So on that level too, it doesn't. But getting back to just one of the favorite things here lately, the chatbot deal. Well, there's a piece just last Saturday on the verge. Called on the Internet, nobody knows you're a human. As bots advertise and AI get more and more human, how do creators prove that they're the real deal? You know it's this. Not only synthetic, but it goes deeper than that. It's. More so than ever before, we're not sure if we can trust what we see on the Internet. Almost every day a person is asked to prove their own humanity to a computer. Yeah, this is this whole deal. When everything is is fake in a bot and you you start to lose the sense of you're talking to a machine product, not a sentient being. Duh. Everybody knows that. No one would deny that. And yet. You know, people get roped into it. It's sophisticated and the. You know the deal is to get you to drop your sensibilities. Yeah, that's now. I keep seeing these ads. This is for Buick. Envision the the name of the girls envision which parks itself and the ad. This is one of my favorite days of the week. It's people in the car. Wow. I never could learn how to. Park your car. Well, yeah. It's just one more little skill. Not to champion driving a lot but and just sit there. You push the button and you sit there and it parks itself. My favorite has been running for quite a while now. I've noticed surfing around a lot. There's a Bank of America Financial services ad. And it's actually there are two versions of it. It's kind of interesting the way they've had to apparently change the thing a little bit. It shows the museum setting a teacher with a bunch of kids in the museum and in the foreground, the Bank of America person says noticing that the teacher is on her phone. And she says. Do you think this person's funny about ancient Roman coins? And he makes his face like who would be geeky enough to care about anything in a museum just just to smear? But the later version, if that isn't bad enough. Well, it's too bad enough, I guess, because in the the newer versions it moves in a little bit, so you can't see the kids, they're just taken out of the picture. So it's not necessarily a teacher, it's somebody in a museum on the phone. So the interesting little shift there, but. You know, these are just ugly. It's just ugly. It's it's like the typical stereotype of American anti intellectualism. Anybody who would care about something like ancient coinage, you know, you just wrinkle your nose. Like what kind of a geek and fool? Are you you? Know just. It's pathetic. It's it's really. It's so blatant. Anyway. That's. That's my out of the week. And more about the chat bot thing last Thursday and the Times chat bots banality is eerier than any AI movie. In other words, it isn't so much the old scary thing like. AI, you know in the. In the movie, Open the pod doors. Hal, what was that? The 2001 right and the and the computerized deals won't do it, you know. No, can't do. And so the human is. Screwed, you know and. So anyways. Arguing that on a deeper level it's the it's the mediocrity of. Of society. When you get down to it. It's in the banality. That should creep people out even more than the more. You know, then that kind of a. Earlier version of. Of computer power.

Speaker 2: Hmm, so I got. Tommy on the line. Ohh, Tommy.

Speaker 6: Hey, John. I'm doing good. How are you?

Speaker 3: Good, but how much time?

Speaker 6: OK, I'll make it quick. Yeah, I was talking about the. AI stuff and uh, this uh thing, I I'm I'm an artist. I like to make art and this thing got popular with some people online where it makes your picture into a painting. And I was just so disgusted by it and. I had some artist friends, too, that were disgusted. It's just so. Uh. You know where is the humanity? You know, where's the emotion in that? It's it's. It's, you know, it's all AI generated painting from your photo and it's just.

Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah. Carl was shaking his head. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's. A good example.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So anyways, I just want to bring that. Up is that. This whole thing is just getting out of control for musicians, too, and everyone, it's just it's just hopefully, you know, people just reject it completely because it's, it's sickening.

Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, well put. Yeah, that's. We need.

Speaker 6: Anyways, but thanks for everything you're doing, John. I love your show. I tell my friends to listen in, so hopefully they are and.

Speaker 3: Thank you, Tommy. Female out there. Yeah, good point. Very good point. See, there was a piece in the Verge. Two days ago, called AI generated fiction. Just what Tom is talking about is flooding literary magazines, especially sci-fi and fantasy magazines. But it isn't filling anyone. So there's a lot of. Input you know because it'll write these scripts. It'll write stuff, but it needs to know that. Uh. Even though they're flooded by it. They're not fooled by it. And yeah, as Tommy said, you got to just. Reject that you know there's a cartoon in the current New Yorker magazine. Kind of cute. It's a bedtime story. Dad is. To the child and it reads and so Lucas and all his friends simply chose to ignore the metaverse, and in the end it went away. Yeah, well, I've got a whole lot of glitches. Twitter, T-Mobile these things that are supposed to be running, they go offline for hours. You know, just part of the unreliability. Of it and. Here's something from this is from Jimmy. Well, the backdrop is the Bloomberg. Story last week about how youth in quote developed countries are turning away from cars. Not much in the cars. Here's an LA Times story about Barnes and Noble. They're focusing entirely on old fashioned books. Ebooks and other electronic stuff have been discarded. And now they're going with the stores, stores that for walking around looking for books. Nothing more, nothing less. Kind of a left eye tendency there. As he put it, I think that's this healthy deal. Yeah, some of this stuff doesn't work all that well. In fact, VR, the basis for Metaverse and some of the rest of this stuff. Interesting that. There has been around a while, of course, the Oculus. That's the key. Company doing that for quite a while. OK, well, the prices haven't. You're supposed to always get imagine or assume the prices go down. We get more of it on the market. You know, it's. They can lower the price. Well, prices have gone up for VR stuff. And it's also true that it's a solitary experience, not a social experience. So. There's a couple of strikes right there for sure. Against the VR World, so-called world. This is something I saw just today. Which it's planned to be rolled out real soon from Pokémon The Pokémon Company. Is disclosed some of the details on its most anticipated product Pokémon Sleep. Help me out with this, I don't quite. They were projecting this two years in 2019, actually. Looking on sleep, essentially the game is a sleep tracker where you interact with the Pokémon in the app by sleeping. And depending on how you snooze, sleep is divided into three types, dozing, sneezing and slumbering. Depending on which you get, different kinds of creatures in your name. That doesn't sound too invasive or bizarre. Wow. Even in your sleep, you're plugged into the machine. That's what it looks like to me. Well, for a couple of things, the latest geoengineering scheme. You know the oceans are acidifying, right? So how about we dump a whole lot of alkaline stuff in there to change the ocean ocean chemistry? So they can absorb more carbon. You don't get the absorption when you when it's getting more and more acid. Magnesium hydroxide. Yeah, let's just dump an infinite number of tons of magnesium hydroxide. And that's the answer. Sure you don't want to stop what's causing this? You just. Probably make it worse. Yeah, change the Ocean's chemistry. Sounds like a plan. Well, maybe go out, go out with this. This is nice. From Ellie Mills writing in Saturday, New York Times, February 11th. I'll just give you the title. Basically, you two gave me everything. Then I grew up and like it and you know, she talks about. Visibility, in other words, peddling images of yourself for attention. Yeah. And then she snapped out of it. Well, we're going to snap out of it and stick around for transcendent phase. With Carl and. Back at you next week. Thank you for listening.

02-14-2023

[audio]

Valentine's Day. Love is in the air? Turkish quake tied to climate crisis, not a 'natural disaster.' Teen girls engulfed in sadness and trauma. Mass shootings. Avian flu spreads to other species. Failures of modern systems. Fires ravage Chile. High-rises for China's pigs. Nihilism explored. At Work in the Ruins by Dougald Hines. Ohio train wreck. Squarespace Super Bowl ad of the week. In- destructible wind turbine blades. ChatGPT tune for Decemberists. Latest geo- engineering madness: magnesium hydroxide in the oceans.Three calls.

Speaker 1: UVA Sports join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on kW VA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: Come on. Now no one is here. You are right, because I am always wrong with everything. Things seem fine from what I see. The song of mine is all that.

Speaker 3: You can hear inside of.

Speaker 2: Thought we only dreamed that night.

Speaker 3: I was wrong.

Speaker 2: This is a melody. Same thing every time. It's true, the joke is over play, but still. Strange to see. You standing there. Might be rude, but nothing.

Speaker 4: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 5: That's right. You're listening to KWV AU gene and we are here in the studio. 541-346-0645. If we're going to get ourselves seated and our headphones on and ready for your calls, and we'll listen to a little music before that happens.

Speaker 6: Know what to do. Everything is clear.

Speaker 4: OK, it's energy radio for Valentine's Day. Why? What is the funding already? Wow, couldn't even. Going to somebody last week had cut off the show runs exactly an hour. It's it's that's the way it works. It's just.

Speaker 5: Are you going? Are you to?

Speaker 4: One hour and then you're. So yeah, if somebody was writing mid sentence and we were trying to. Tell them that the time is running out.

Speaker 5: Awesome. Uh, what's your name?

Speaker 4: Yes, we do have. A call. Maybe the person that was cut off last week.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we just got a call from Sorin.

Speaker 4: Soren, pretty good. So are you there?

Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm here.

Speaker 4: Good, good. How you doing?

Speaker 7: Pretty good. So I called in users in I'm I'm mildly familiar with your work and I respect like what you did and like, laying the groundwork for like green anarchy stuff. And I was reading a text, and they mentioned that you had written a work on like. Pre civilized. And I found the IT was about like meditation and I found the topic very fascinating in many like photo anarchist text. I think like the biggest example is like Taoism or whatever, like the conception of flow or way kind of. Really challenges the assumption that, like how humans in like civilized society think is different than how it used to. And I was. I heard that you had a theory on like this could be wrong because this is just conjecture on like pre domesticated thought. And I was curious what your thoughts on that were.

Speaker 4: Well, that's the whole question of the symbolic David Abrams, for example. And the spell is essential. This makes a big contribution there. He's talking about alphabetic thoughts and how we. Cut ourselves off from the actual world with the with symbolizing and he he goes into that pretty well and. You know, we know that people, various homeless species had all kinds of capacities well before there's any evidence of symbolic culture. Even evidence of language. So in other words, there's a tendency to measure. Modern humans, intelligence and so forth by. In terms of how much capacity they have for symbolic thought, symbolic language, and that's not. That doesn't really hold up very well so. You know you I think it it's worth while to reassess that to figure out what how to work. You know, if you, it's certainly, you know couple of million years before written language, but we don't know when speech started because that of course precedes written language. So there's no there is no definitive evidence for the origin of language for example. But you know the whole thing is. Has to be somewhat speculative, but there's a lot of questions that are not really met by the standard version of things.

Speaker 7: Oh yeah, absolutely. I I have pretty similar thoughts myself and one. So the text thought it was unreleased. It was like somebody. So an exercise was it that I find very interesting and like so a lot of people. Well, people's thoughts are often different. But oftentimes when I talk to people, what their. Thoughts are like. It's just language right into. Oh, I'm hungry. And then interpreting it through language while like I almost feel like learning how to think subconsciously is kind of learning how to think and interact with the world without language. So I think like exercise is trying to do that are interesting. Like meditation, but like a more obvious one is in like martial arts or sports where you wear highly practiced people like they train and they practice something. And then when the event comes they don't think it's already. Like in their mind, subconscious very well and it just happens. And it's like the concept of flow state. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean and there are a number of activities like chess or music. Those aren't those don't require words. You you well they certainly. Presuppositions there, but you know there you there are realms like that, that, that and of course, as you say, sports the usual. References muscle memory. You do something over and you don't have to think about it because you your body knows how to do it and. Anyway, yeah, there's a lot of interesting deals that are, you know, kind of overrun or dominated almost out of existence, but still, are there, you know, that's the way we function in a lot of ways.

Speaker 7: Yeah. OK. Yeah, I think I always find this conceptually interesting for several reasons. Like, I think when people try relating with animals, they have such A and like plant life too. That's a whole different subject, I guess so for like. Animals. I feel like so many like people struggle to like. And understand them and interact with them. It's like, well, they don't interact heavily with language and like language is such a fundamental capacity that like people lean on. And I think, like modern society, while language is beneficial, I think on some level becomes. Almost like a crutch. Because when you're analysis is always language. You have blind spots on how language negatively affects you, and I think learning how to like, think without language dramatically changes things. And like ability to relate to the outside world and the natural world greatly increases when you're able to, like, practice the skill and I found. I don't know. I mostly wanted to ask you about it because I found this concept not something that most talk about so directly as the cause of civilization. So I found it very interesting and I wanted your perspective.

Speaker 4: Well, you make a very good point. Yeah, that's there are a lot of different ways to communicate that not all. Contained with language is symbolic language. Yeah, it's very true. That's a very important point. I think. Well, I appreciate your call. Let's you bring up some very important things.

Speaker 7: Alright, it was good talking to you. I hope you too enjoy your radio show.

Speaker 4: Thank you. Take care. Let's see Capital Co host next week, the 21st and. On the 28th. Novas that's going to be a special thing. It's not going to be live. Most likely it'll be pre recorded right before the show and then then people could call in about it. She won't be here. Live to answer questions but. Very important thinker having to do with the. Whole idea of cooperation and our earlier cooperative. Selves or societies? Somewhat apropos of the color there, so that'll be. Worth waiting for? Well, one more thing about the quake, which I guess was 8 days ago. Going on 9 days ago the horrible. Disaster the death toll may go past 50,000. There was a quote in the New York Times last Friday. Turks say the quake wiped out a city and a civilization. But I think it might be better put to say civilization created and destroyed the city more like. The weight of civilization literally speaking. In that awful event. And you know, there's been some this piece from Euro News and some other sources actually. About this is not a natural disaster that what we're we're going into a more seismically turbulent future. And that, you know, the concept of a natural disaster that doesn't hold up anymore. Apparently because. Partly it's change in the distribution of weight across the earths crust, for example, with the glaciers retreating and melting. This is this causes a difference in pressure, and these ruptures can be set off by these fundamental changes that happen. It's not just completely. Out of the blue. So we have the call. This is Max. Max. Hi there. Good, good, good. How are you?

Speaker 8: Not bad. I kind of wanted to tell your audience. Not a couple. Of books, if you wouldn't mind. So the first one is called the art of not being governed by James C Scott. It's kind of a funny title, but it's yeah, it's actually about research into pre modern societies and basically it kind of tries to. Dispel the myths of. The the main narratives of sort of civilization like for example. We kind of have this idea. Pre modern people. When they saw civilization and urban society spring up around them. They all kind of said, oh, that looks cool. I want to go you. Know I want. To go join that in reality talks about.

Speaker 4: Right, right. Scott debunks that pretty well.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it really does. It talks about how. A lot of cultures all over the world. Kind of had. Their cultures themselves seem almost designed to avoid incorporation into States and things like that, and he just gives like countless examples. It's a really great book.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 8: And you know everything from the terrain they lived. In they would. Live in like hills and mountains and. Malarial swamps place is really difficult for like urban cultures. Sort of logistical apparatus. To like control.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: You know, just to escape and another the other book. I wanted to tell you guys about, it's fairly new. It's called the end of the mega machine by Fabian Schiedler. I don't know if you've heard of it.

Speaker 4: I have not what was that again please.

Speaker 8: Or the end of the mega machine by Fabian, Sheila and it's basically like a it's a pretty damning critique of, like modern society. It starts with a little bit of a, you know, action of history, a little bit of the growth of actions of civilization, but it's mostly about the beginnings of modernity.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 8: And it's just kind of a damning review. Of modern society it. It goes into a lot of. Depth about things I didn't know about. You know, we all know the story of awe when they discovered the new world and they came and plundered and killed everyone. But he kind of goes into a little more depth about how, you know, the conquistadors in the first. People came here looking for silver and gold. How they're, you know, deeply in debt to like. You know reason and probably mill and he's like big banker merchant kinds of funders. And they you. Know they came here and slave killed. They forced people to. Mind and the. Thing he talks about that was interesting to me was how when they brought all these riches back to the new to the old world, back to Europe, I hope it will get this wrong. But it it it seems as though it actually didn't really benefit anyone for the most part, except the the few people in the upper class. Actually got the. Money, he, he says. It caused massive inflation that made commodity prices for like basic necessities like grain explode and it caused all this unrest. In the peasant classes and. They're they're kind of fighting back and. One reaction to this was using the new wealth they acquired to build off really expensive mercenary armies to to put that on rest now, it's a really great book. Can't recommend it enough. Thanks for letting me call John and I'll keep.

Speaker 9: Up the good work, OK.

Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. Great contribution there appreciated meanwhile. Wow, we're getting the calls. Lovely. Lovely. Well, yesterday the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control. Put out a report which is based on their own 2021 youth Risk Behavior Survey. Which really details startling trends, especially among teenage girls. The levels of trauma, sadness, violence. Was this part of the ever more ravaged social fabric? But and as reported in the Washington Post, for example. And these things are twice. As bad as they are for boys, it turns out. Among female teens just uh. Just terrible stuff, the hopelessness, the. Suicidal ideation, risen by leaps and bounds and numbers, are unprecedented. Says the CDC guy. Just. Well, yeah, part of the way it's going and. Anyway, from the week another way it's going is, of course last night's. Michigan State's miss this shooting in the evening last night. Three students dead, 5 in critical condition, so that might go up, and the shooter was a suicide, possibly 9 dead there. And you know more than. One a day of these mass shootings. Just the staple of life or death, I guess you'd say. And you know it's not always shootings. For that matter, I mean, 10 years ago it was the bombing of the Boston Marathon. And yesterday U-Haul truck. Rampage in Brooklyn. Ran over a bunch of people. Two dead, 6 injured so far. You know, it's just breaking loose. And other things they're breaking loose. I'm trying to fit a whole bunch of stuff in here. The fuel. The gas and. Yeah, the the Vegas pipeline from from LA. Gasoline and diesel fuel. Had to be shut off Thursday afternoon, prompting all kinds of panic, panic buying. I think the flow was restored on Saturday. You know another. Little example of the vulnerability of the whole system. And let's see. On Saturday, the Russian supply ship for the International Space Station lost cabin pressure. So that's a little bit of a set back for Russian rocketry. And just one of the things that keeps coming back. All the time is. Pig brutality. This is from San Mateo County. Last Friday's San Francisco Bay morning report. San Mateo County, which is, of course, part of San Francisco Bay, will pay the family of Chinedu Okobi 4.5 million after he died in a confrontation with sheriff's deputies in Millbrae to South of San Francisco. Okobi was shocked 7 times with the Taser pepper sprayed and beaten with batons. Police said he was jaywalking. Can't make that up? Yeah, just savagely beat the guy to death like. Tyree comes to mind. Well, we got more in the dropout department. You know, all the stuff about workers not showing up. There's a peace story. Last Thursday, hundreds of thousands of students around the country. Who disappeared from public schools during the pandemic. Haven't been back. This is from Stanford, estimated 240,000 students in 21 states whose absences could not be accounted for. It's the in the news on Sunday, 26 Dead 2000 injured as fires rage out of control in Chile. Yeah, as of the weekend, 889,000 acres plus of forest have gone up in flames. There was a piece about the sandhill cranes. You can see those over in the mail here reserve in. Central Oregon, in the middle of the state of Oregon. And it turns out they're very cooperative, also very vulnerable. Because in this country, not just in this country but we're losing wetland habitats faster than rainforest. So that's a global thing. In terms of. Well, from a report from. Amphibians and reptile Conservancy. It's kind of a Canary in the coal mine. And this is a horrendous thing. This is not a brand new news of this week, but there was a story in New York Times on Friday, Friday the 10th. Called Chinas, hulking towers of pigs. Yeah, these high rise towers. They resemble humans. Pushed into these little cubicles, it's it's industrial life. Except these pigs never go outside. They're they're born in there. They die in there. That's terrific. Higher high rise desolation, to put it mildly. Let's see, let's shift into some more political slushy, anarchistic stuff. Excuse me a second. I'm back. Well, a couple of guys named Zach and Josh. Have something called the Ego Death Podcast, and they're up to #3. I wasn't aware of the 1st 2:00. All about nihilism. These guys seem very. Friendly and thoughtful. You know, they don't seem dogmatic or. You know, pushing anything. In particular, except they want to explore. What it is? And this is the third such podcast and I'm wondering, where does this touch the ground or you know? What's on offer here? Because they start out in #3 saying there's no defined, no. Agreed upon definition. No real history. Of the concept in theory or practice, although you could point to different people. I just had this thought that. In fact, there's. There's no accepted anything which kind of means post modernism, right? How is it different from post modernism? So I don't know it's, but you know, they're they're exploring it and it's. You know, it's enjoyable. They're they're trying to be. Careful and concerned and, you know, try to assess it out and. Made me think of the late Aragorn, who described himself as a nihilist egoist. And he was postmodern, 100%, even though possibly he didn't know what that meant because he wasn't very well read. But. Anyway, I'm I'm wondering if that's ever occurred. To them that. I mean, anarchists, when anarchists take up that label, self identifies nihilists. That's. You know, heavy man, that's heavy. You're a nihilist. Wow. You know, boy. Except anyway, we'll see. They're they're going to do future things and they want input so. If you want to check out Ego Death podcast, you can give them your. Your own points or questions. And here's another one, quite unrelated, I think from. Shares saying. Who is a communist in India? And this has nothing to do with postmodernism. Not that everything bad does have something to do with it, but I I don't know why I'm on this mailing list, but there's a. A new offering called imagining a near future. And he raises the question, is the world possible without factories, hospitals and universities? And anyway, this guy gets very, very exercised. And he gives it away that at least you get this out of it, that there are people, he calls them supporters of a proletarian stateless communist society. Well, you don't have to stick in the communist. I'd prefer you didn't. But anyway, yeah, just get rid of everything. They want a total and rapid closure of modern factories, power plants, universities, blah blah. With the aim of immediate. Transformation. So anyway, he's horrified. He's horrified. You've got to have. All the industry and stuff, but. It's just kind. Of odd that that is kind of. As Marx put it, as Spectre is haunting. Not just Europe, but maybe other places where these kind of go after these people. I know primitivists in India. They wouldn't call themselves communists, by the way, but they do want the rapid disappearance of everything that's ruining the planet and alienating everybody and all the rest. Although nobody has said. As far as I know, push. A button. And overnight this would all well go away. No, that would. That would not be good. Everybody knows that, I think. Well, it's still. I'm now. I was expecting like call after call and maybe not anymore. But anyway we are 541-346-0645. And there was a call last week. It was cut off just because it's automatically cut off at the end of the hour. Not that we wanted to. Cut him off in any way. Let's see. Well, I'm just going to sneak in just a little bit more and then we'll take a. Music break we have. What is that called the carcass?

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's wake up and smell the carcass.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll be great for that. Wait for that. But let's see, what are we? Got here some of the news active news workers at Tesla are trying to unionize. Comp workers united. It's a so-called social justice outfit affiliated with the CIU. So we're seeing this pro union waves, Starbucks, Amazon and so forth. Elon Musk. You're going to be liking this too much, I don't think. And a little bit more and thank you, Sean, for this. He gave me the transcript. I I only had the title, this piece in the New York Times that back on the second the teenager leading the smartphone liberation movement, well, this had to do with a 17 year old in Brooklyn by the name of Logan Lane, who gave up her smartphone and helped started. The lad club and there's been attention paid to that and she talks about her own liberation. Not not real smooth sailing and her experiences with that kind of in the density of the whole. Online world and with everybody having a smartphone. Alrighty, well, this one more thing, and then we'll take the break. The big disaster, the train wreck in eastern Ohio. 50 cars. Burning and the story was as bad as it was. Through was it released in the huge fire? Train wreck vinyl chloride, which is linked to various cancers, is 3. Not all of the 50 cars, but anyway. Myo chloride. That's they make PVC pipe out of that. The plastic part of the plastics boom in general, well today. The EPA disclosed that other toxic chemicals and multiple carcinogens were also released. And now you can't really hide this thousands and thousands of dead fish in the area. And it's not going to be too good for humans. There not only not good for fish. Well, let's see that. OK, we got. What is it about the?

Speaker 5: This is carcass.

Speaker 4: OK, we got Caracas.

Speaker 0: It's yeah.

Speaker 7: Death Race.

Speaker 4: Carl just told me an amazing tale here that it's all true. He swears from the novel White Noise by Don Delillo. There was a movie of the same name and part of it has to do with the big toxic explosion in Ohio and an evacuation.

Speaker 5: It's all true.

Speaker 4: And the person anyway, this it happened last week pretty much exactly as it did in white noise.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the headline I saw was an extra in a disaster movie about a toxic train derailment was evacuated in Ohio after the exact same thing happened in real life. And that's not. That's not from like, you know that that's from Business Insider.

Speaker 4: Right, right. Dirty old sauce, I'm sure. Wow. Yeah, that's closing out, yeah. Well, I got away. I saw some. I saw some video. Wonder if it was the guy who looked like his face was somewhat burned. Or not? I don't know. Doesn't matter, OK. Let's see. Where were we? Oh, I want to get into this a little bit. I don't want to have this totally newsy, but I just finished reading. Booked by Dugald Heine, who is part of the Dark Mountain crew. A friend of Paul Kingsnorth, and this really kind of. Sheds a whole light on that point of view and what it's what it's turned out to be. I mean, the book is called at work in the ruins, finding our place in the time of science, climate change, pandemics, and only other emergencies with somewhat unwieldy title. Brand new book and it's kind of. An unwieldy book? It really kind of starts out. From the point of view of his his colleague, his buddy Kingsnorth, they wrote this Dark Mountain manifesto called Uncivilization. And that was. Well, it's it's kind of tricky. I mean, he's he's that was widely read as kind of a document of surrender. You know it's pointless. It's going to happen and. Actually, kings North want to get too far in the winds here. But he. The subject of a New York Times magazine piece back in 2014 called it's the end of the world as we know it, and he feels fine. You know, collapse is inevitable. And so on. So Heine is really kind of on the same page in this book that kind of wanders all over the place. It raises some. Some very pointed important questions, but it doesn't do much with them like he says. Is this the way to inhabit a planet? I mean, you know he. He points in passing anyway, to the costs of. Industrial modernity and the whole thing and. But it doesn't go anywhere. It's just so frustrating. There's so many books like this. You know. It's all he goes. He flits around every kind of conversation and book in his own talk. It's just all over the place and he finds it's just kind of noteworthy in a way, 2018, a very excellent turning point. That's when deep adaptation by Jim Bendell came out, which is another kind of book adaptation. That means the fights over time to adapt. You know, but the book raises some interesting questions. For example, it questions science in a way to some degree. In other words, there's a culture of science that is limiting. And we ask too much of it and we get kind of bound up in all of its assumptions. And that's a good part. That's a good, interesting part. Then there's all this mainstream stuff, too. Greta Thunberg, who turned out to be a voice of moral opposition, you know, moral gestures, which is fine. But what's lacking in this book? As with some of these protests that he lauds, like Extinction, Rebellion. There's nothing about social institutions he he refers to. Modernity now and then. But he also the the term. The term climate. Change is on every page climate change. Could you get more innocuous than the? You know, climate crisis even is is weak, I think, but. Anyway, I don't know if this is going to be a big book like the neighbor Wind. Grow, but it's brand new. It raises some questions and it sort of doesn't go anywhere toward the end. And his his burden, I think by the he's haunted a little bit by the by the label surrender. And he says surrender yes to the mystery, not the certainty. Which is cool, you know, keep questioning and so forth, but. I don't know it's it doesn't go anywhere. And the the here's the prescription. For the the hopeful turn, the helpful turn that we need. The turn is made in our hearts first of. All and then we. Look for ways to make it true. In our lives. So that's it the just the personal, the individual. What about the social? What about the world? You. Know I mean. That that only goes so far. I mean, change your heart to tend your garden and that's fine, but. What kind of a? What kind of an answer is that? To what he what? He admits. Is the pretty much doomed thing we may be doomed, you know, and. So he says. All we got is a long shot. But he doesn't take the long shot. The long shot beat it, question the very basis their existence of modernity, civilization, domestication, even division of Labor. But he does none of that. So this is another, I don't know, whatever happened to Dark Mountain, but it might have faded away like kings N did kings north, by the way. Yeah, he he just. He went into Orthodox Christianity. He just is giving up on everything. He's. Thrown in the towel for which he was rewarded by a big New York Times magazine story. I guess that's what you get when you. No longer fighting against anything. Get back to the tech a little bit, I think. Yeah, the plastics thing. Speaking of what happened in Ohio. This is all about. Well, industry figures show record production in 2021. And almost none of the plastics are getting recycled. Oh, and another thing, this is from inside climate news, twice as much land in developing nations will be swamped by rising seas than previously projected. New research. Says and some more about electric vehicles. This is from the Atlantic yesterday. The experience of owning, charging and driving an electric vehicle makes the rising inequality of America more visible in new and subtle ways. And one of the things they point out is the question about how far can you go before the battery needs to be recharged? Well, to get a good amount of range, you got to pay for it. You got to spend a lot. If you want to go just 100 miles. And not really. I mean, that's then the car goes dead. We need to spend a lot. And that's, you know. Rising inequality. The class difference there. And you know, there's more stuff about AV's than that. For example, the batteries. It's pretty chilly in northern hemisphere these days, not too warm here in Eugene OR but. Turns out these batteries, which cost on average $10,000 and are super heavy. They wear out fast in the cold. I don't know if you heard that if they. Told me that when you bought the damn thing. I mean, that's just a few things and not to mention the the extractivism, the now even sea seabed mining and all the rest of it. Desolating deserts here in this state, for example, the one in southeastern Oregon. The lithium mining and then the lithium processing and. The costs. Sure, do add up.

Speaker 3: Well, here's my.

Speaker 4: End of the week. This is from the Super Bowl, an ad from Squarespace. It, boy, I don't know why. I don't know what makes them think that this appeals to anyone. I thought it was sinister as hell. It shows all these kind of a infinite regress and endless. Graphic of clones. Male clones, just all identical and fading off into the background. Very chilling and the punch line. This is about all it says websites make websites. You know, again, the machine learning deal. Oh, what a happy day. So this is what you get. This is super grim. Looks like an army of zombies, these clones. You know, why would they spend millions of dollars? Do they think everybody's already dead? And and you know, we're just. Into that or something. I kind of kind of wonder about that. Yeah, along those green sustainable lines, there is. There is some notice that. The wind turbine blades are seemingly indestructible, and they go into the landfills. Probably not a good move towards sustainability. Somebody on the line, it sounds like. Good. We have time for at least another call.

Speaker 5: This is Artemis.

Speaker 4: Artem is.

Speaker 9: Hi, how are you doing, John?

Speaker 4: Good, good. How are you man?

Speaker 9: When I'm doing well, you just mentioned like a machine learning and it came to mind that I just didn't send me an article and he said I hope you're you're you're excited to be more depressed. It's from one of the university. It's a theory of mind to may have spontaneously. Merged in large language models. And it would use that in before 2020. None of these, like jet GBT type AI, were able to solve task of mind or theory of mind tasks, which are things that you did to children to quantify their intelligence like little like games. It says that January. 2022 version of Jet GP solved 70% of tasks are performance comparable with that of a seven-year 7 year old child. It's November 2022 version solves 93% of said tests which makes them the equivalent of intelligence to a nine year old. Yeah, and it says. That it's spontaneously emerged as a byproduct of a language model improving language skills.

Speaker 4: Well, I just saw this piece along what you're saying, I think. The Decemberists sets the band. In these parts of Portland band. The guy in there, one of the members of the band, decided to ask for a tune for the band, you know, from the chat bot thing. And they got one and it has chord changes and it is rhyming mostly and everything they said. It's terrible. It's it just. Doesn't get off the ground. I mean it's it's a song, but. You know, implying they'd never perform, and that's for sure. Just kind of clunky and. You know this very rudimentary, but it knows certain things that supposed to go in there, but that doesn't make it, you know, any kind of creative.

Speaker 9: Yeah, it's almost like it's missing a human touch. One might say, right? Because you can write, you know, an AI can write music but can only write music in a way the AI understands it. It doesn't understand the emotional appeal of a song, right? How you feel. It can't do that. And I I have to admit that while I'm obviously very anti AI, I think that. Some people almost trying to. You know, they're looking at it for good or for ill, like kind of like, you know, scientists often say, hey, civilizational by whatever or, like peak oil, right, like, yeah, I wish we would. But it's not happening like.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9: Some people blow this stuff out of proportion, but at the same time I'm scared that they're not, or that they're even underselling what's happening.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not dramatic. It's just so incremental. It's, it's, it's alarming. I mean, these things are somewhat transformative and they seem to be coming on faster and faster. You know, so it's. Yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 9: And I find it interesting that it seems, you know, growth always seems to be exponential to a degree in terms of technological development. So I'm I'm wondering are is this are we seeing in the beginning of the next industrial revolution this kind of like? Second information, age. Or maybe it's maybe better defined as like an AI age, right? Artificial intelligence and not a second computer revolution. If we're seeing the.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's the algorithm. Uberall is all that stuff, that's for sure.

Speaker 9: Yeah. And I actually, again, nothing about my students is. They're the only people I have time to talk to is one of them was talking to me. They're like, well, what do you want to do with your life? I was like, you know, cabin in the woods, you know, like, you know, and. And he's from Romania. And he says, you know, there's a growing. Feeling of that? Among the youth and he's kind of like from the punk scene, so he knows all about, like kind of the anarcho punk scene in Eastern Europe. He was like, there was a group. And so I'm pretty open with him about my politics degrees that you know, it's really openly like green anarchist there. Like there's a growing like wanting to drop out because this new industry what he's just called the new industrial revolution makes people feel meaningless. Like there's no, there's no feeling anymore. Like there's just almost, you know we've always trying to said like. Sociologists this kind of post Soviet pessimism is that it's that, but it's still much worse than my age. It's just so bad.

Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of despair in there too, that's for sure, even though some people are. You know, figuring it out and trying to for the long shot, you know, to actually break with it. I have. Later this month, at their local last time of. The month thing. James and Landon, who's really remarkable. Where that will be available, the recording as the local talk will be available. I think very soon and and that'll be worth listening to because he's. These have been Alaska mostly and also Wyoming and. You know, cut off his ties with. With work and so forth and. Yeah, it's not. It's not a walk in the park, but amazing. Voice of experience in theory 2.

Speaker 9: Yeah. Did you also see, by the way, there are now AI podcasts that are self written and performed by AI?

Speaker 4: Podcasts. I didn't know that.

Speaker 9: Podcast. Yeah, I just saw one. It's they. I don't know exactly how it works. If it's a jet GBT or it almost seems like it's machine learning. So it finds like it goes to specific subreddits or website. The site prompts or like the person does, and then it just puts the information into a voice. So it's totally voiced. By machines. If, if, if it's half. Self written. You're like what? At at some point I almost think what? What happens to radio shows? What happens to energy radio when they replace John's?

Speaker 4: Yeah, be out of a job.

Speaker 9: It's something well, people like. Well, what's the difference? It's different knowing there's someone on the other side to me, like there is just a difference.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a that's a basic thing. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 9: And some people just are so which I think is really indicative of alienation, where they just don't want to admit that there's a fundamental difference between an AI doing something and a person. The fact that people can't see that if you complain about having, are you willing to be upset about that when you get a machine instead of the 1st, and when you're calling customer service?

Speaker 4: Well, yeah. When the when the alternatives shrink down, it's like, well, why are you against robots at the nursing homes or teaching? Don't you know there's a shortage and people that have something? Yeah, something I mean. Sure of dehumanized world, and that's something. And then they can. They can pet a robotic dog or something in the nursing home and. In the lobby, OK.

Speaker 9: And as your voice said, it's just Andy adding another Band-Aid to the problem, but the Band-Aid doesn't make it better. It's the same justification. Need more than more and more. It doesn't need. The more you can argue for it. Right.

Speaker 4: But the but. The leverage is there, you know, if there's the squeeze is on and then you end up with. With that or nothing, I mean that's the threat. I think that's always implied.

Speaker 9: Yeah. And I just, I can't help, but I'm starting to get a little pessimistic. I can't help but you know, being on the younger side, realizing like if nothing changes like I have. To grow up with the will, that's. Could be. Technological to a degree that's never been, you know, obviously it's, it's just this accelerating movement, but it's like, wow. It's really it's just think about when I was in high school and I graduated in 2017 for reference, really, like just how different it is and they don't talk to each other like I taped cell phones at the beginning of the class now. And like, some of them don't like they touch their lap because they're like, oh, I keep thinking my phones. Little off.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the condition for it.

Speaker 9: Yeah, I've had students tally if they're like, oh, I've reached my phone 5 to 10 times because they can't. They keep thinking if they're, it's just it's it's depressing. But at the same time, I think there is a growing distance like the youth group you've talked about. Like there is a growing sense of something's. Right. But I don't think people know what to put it on. Yet they don't. Know how to pin it and I think that's a growing. I'll use the term responsibility for like a better one for people that are aware. It's like we have the responsibility to make that clear because I think that's easily manipulable by reactionary forces. You know what I mean? Ohh. Distancing has always been misused, and I think especially as it's going, we need to be more. You know, connected to people like, yeah. Like, this is what it is. That's how the conversation about it.

Speaker 4: And the administration is there the anxiety and sadness and loneliness, it's just the reams of evidence about that. So is it working? Is it making you happy? Are you cool with that? I mean, the answer, visibly, is obviously no, but there. But there it is. I mean that that's the. Inertia of it and the. They're they're left with that. They and you know, it's not easy to break out of. It even as as unsatisfying and dehumanizing it as it is, I mean, I've gotten a couple of queries from high school kids, by the way. This is up here earlier, but in the past week or so. The school group in Chicago and one in Philadelphia reaching out and going to be talking with them and. You know, it's sort of like the Luddite club I'm thinking. I mean it they that's the one group is called out-of-the-box, which it gives means thinking out-of-the-box. So I mean there's. There's some signs of of awareness, you know, trying to articulate some of this stuff. So very happy I've, I've have, I don't remember. Much action from high school kids, but this is kind of.

Speaker 9: I mean it's. Kind of like, you know, the left always. Talks about oh. It's always the youth, right that you know the these kind of like, counterculture clubs and counterculture movements towards socialism and things historically. You know, maybe that's where it goes for us, right? It's these Luddite clubs. These return to like, flip phones and let's go out in the woods and play music and draw and being each. Other's presence, maybe that's. Perhaps, and that's wherever I would have expected it to come from, but maybe that's the next. Maybe that's the kernel for what I mean, are these trying to use dropout?

Speaker 4: Could me could me. Seems like it's always a surprise and to a large degree the the timing of it and the. But yeah, it's. I guess it's going to be the kids. Even though they're, they have the. Biggest handicap? I mean they don't know anything else. They've never been outside of it. And in a lot of ways.

Speaker 9: You're you're raised in a way that's totally. Different from me, like my. Younger sister totally raised iPad parent generation. You know what? I mean with the iPad. What does that do to the long term? But I won't hold you anymore. I see you got about four minutes left, but I appreciate you taking my call.

Speaker 4: Thank you. Very good to hear from you. All right. I was. Yeah. I was wondering what happened to Artemis. Very good. So I guess we just have time for some music to go out and and this is not wake up and smell the carcass. No, it isn't.

Speaker 5: Nope, this is led, Zepp.

Speaker 4: And be sure to listen to transcendent phase coming.

Speaker 5: On just a few minutes.

Speaker 6: There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold and she's buying the stairway. When she gets there, she know. The stores are. All closed with the word she can get what? A cheese. There's a sign of a war. But she wants to be sure because, you know, sometimes words have me. Live abroad.

Speaker 2: There's a.

Speaker 6: Sometimes all of our thoughts.

02-07-2023

[audio]

Turkish quake magnified by civ. Thomas Zeitzoff. "Primitivism" seminar U of O Feb. 20.Robin Wall Kimmerer. Crisis of Great Salt Lake. Potent solidarity for prisoners; Italian embassies fearful. New grass-roots zine, Graffiti. Apple surpasses 2 billion e-devices. "The Teenager Leading the Smartphone Liberation Movement" (NYT Feb. 2) "In the Age of AI, Major in Being Human" (NYT Feb. 3) Huge costs of 'green,sustainable' technologies. Two calls.

Speaker 2: Quacks Mack. My name is Ben McGrath alongside Kent Williams and Griffin Bose and produce producing this episode. Thank you, guys. And that was your episode of Quix.

Speaker 1: Hey. Hey.

Speaker 3: You can listen to quack smack on kW VA if you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus, we're on Twitter at kW, a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 4: The music expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of AWD radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Connecting Radio is an editorial collage provided analysis and opinions of John's urban and the.

Speaker 3: Community of language.

Speaker 5: Right. You're listening to kW? VAUG and you are the community. We are here in the studio. The number, as always, is 541-346-0645 and we'll take your calls in just a moment. We have we haven't heard for a while coming at us now, so. Just check it out.

Speaker 6: That's the band called the tennis teacher. Strangest name? And I think the trick is is short shorts, which doesn't make sense either. Anyway, this is energy radio for February 7th. Massive, horrible story coming out of southern. Yesterday morning, very good afternoon. Maybe over 20,000 dead in the collapsing housing and all the rest of it. You know, I was thinking often my mind just a little bit ago, some of this member of one of her books describes driving along with a crane. Moving train. And then from the shirt question on that, it says if it was up to women, we'd still be living in grasslands or minutes or whatever color for version of civilization was.

Speaker 7: Hey, this is Amy Ray. And you're listening to music from around the world, Mandy. A WPA 88.1.

Speaker 6: And you know, I'm speaking. You know, maybe it wouldn't have been so such a bad idea. It wouldn't be, you know, 10s of thousands of people killed in the when the apparatus of civilization falls on them. Crushing them and they're dehumanized. Concrete cubicles. But. But yeah, we gotta we gotta worship that the building the towers and the cranes and.

Speaker 5: KWKWVA.

Speaker 1: Now live at 6:00. KWB Sports is broadcasting from the campus to University of Oregon.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we wouldn't want to be.

Speaker 6: Apart from that, just just strip his approval.

Speaker 1: That's the show.

Speaker 3: I like talking.

Speaker 5: Talking sports.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it's pretty good stuff.

Speaker 0: What Mack Mack.

Speaker 1: Every month, staff dissects all things.

Speaker 6: Yeah, about it. If they lived in low tech dwelling somewhere and there's collapsed didn't crush anyone. About that.

Speaker 5: I'm I'm experiencing life.

Speaker 6: You know the urbanization question also comes to the floor here because the center, the epicenter of the Creek, was in Gaziantep.

Speaker 0: I'm on the ship.

Speaker 6: City of over 2 million. So people are trapped in the urban dealing, probably. I don't know, maybe quite a few of them are looking to have housing at all, but. That's the picture, and, yeah, natural disaster, obviously, but made. Incredibly more horrible by the nature of the context. There was a two page interview with Robin Wall Kimmerer. In the two in the New York Times Magazine two days ago, The Sunday Times. It's it was funny. It kind of an abbreviated interview, but it seemed to me it was kind of a hostile. Questions, which is fine. You know you're going to be able to answer any questions, I think, but. It I think that. She can't be ignored. This may be the larger point there because braiding sweet grass. Over 1.4 million copies in print. It's been a year now on the bestseller list. And that's that's beautiful because it's such. A wonderful book. Anyway, in the interview, she says we know what to do. We know what the problem is. We know it's drivers. There you have it. Quite well put, I think. It was. It was a pretty good interview, but. Not enough room to develop too much, she said. She'd like to have a Fox News. Literally about foxes, not the right wing haters, obviously, but and I recall about a year ago, she gave a talk of zoom thing to the University of Oregon. Community and. Boy, one thing that really stuck with me is she tackled the old saw. Well, you can't go back. Everybody knows you can't go back. Can't turn it around? Well, she said. We must go back. We go back on ancestral paths. To the place which wasn't. Ruined and oppressive and everything else. Well, boy. I am going to come up with some. Maybe uplifting or lightning or funny things, but. Some things this week sure as hell weren't, weren't that way. How about the video? This is from this is came out last this past week in an incident that happened in LA County in Huntington Park on January 26th. Shows the pigs gunning down a double amputee. He allegedly injured a man with a knife and was hobbling away on his stumps. And they just blasted him. Yeah, it shows with often. Just with cowards. They are with scum on top of everything else. The guy with no legs. You gotta blow him up, I mean. Man, it's just so disgusting. It's completely horrible video. Here's a story about the Whitney Plantation in Louisiana. This is a. This is a slave. Museum it's the history and legacy of slavery. In this particular plantation. Preserved down there in the. Live oaks. And you know, it gets hot and humid down there, but you know, The thing is, here's the overlapping crisis or crises. This plantation museum is really up against it due to warming oceans. That's part of it causing. Bigger and nastier hurricanes. In rising water, this is. Along the Mississippi. Yeah, Hurricane Ida, in particular in climate change. Nearby is Louisiana's Cancer alley, 85 miles along the Mississippi that's home to more than 150 petrochemical plants and refineries. And home to Whitney Plantation. The two negatives. Reinforce each other. Well, just hours ago at the Los Angeles Times desk came out the story. That 36.3 million trees died in California last year. Over 36 million. Only 9 million the year before, which is quite a few, but four times more. In 2022, drought and disease. In the dying civilization. Not good the life. In any of its forms, apparently. And another. This was Sunday, NBC News. More on the Great Salt Lake. Which is on the verge of ecological collapse. The lake as we know it is on track to disappear in five years. If the current shrinkage. Goes on is probably getting worse, probably accelerating. Yeah, shrinking and getting more salty and. Life is getting wiped out already. And there's a story. An AP story today and scary deal. As glaciers melt and pour massive amounts of water into nearby lakes, 15,000,000 people across the globe. Live under the threat of sudden and deadly outburst floods. These are big glacial lakes that can collapse. It's a brand new study from Nature Communications. Studying various areas of the globe and and it's a threat that's the particular threat to 1,000,000 people and the Americans and Europeans. Who live within 6 miles of potentially unstable glacial fed lakes, so that's coming down the chute. Yes, Sir, 541-346-0645. As Carl has proclaimed. Well, maybe some nicer news in terms of. A few political things strikes all across England. Get some energy there going on in Peru. Which they've very strong protests. Involving centrally, the poor and the indigenous. All kinds of Hwy. Roadblocks. A lot of a lot of action that's been going on for a while. I'm going to have a conversation with two other. Old vets from yesteryear. We were involved in a Dutra Self union. And the kind of network. Back in the late 60s. One sees there's quite a lot of organizing among tech workers in Amazon. That's probably the biggest independent grassroots example. Of independent organizing, the other outfits, too, don't really want to be a part of organized labor. Like the Teamsters or the AFL-CIO, but. Yeah, we're going to go through. That a little bit. See if there's anything useful that we can recall. And I had quite a good conversation. By the way. Well, let me let me mention the one to come and that's on Monday the 20th. At EU of O seminar on primitivism. We've been invited to meet that. Of Doctor Ching that that should be interesting. And they were forced to buy one of my books. So I'll do the good. Yesterday I had a conversation with a fellow named Thomas Zitzloff, who teaches at the American University in Washington, DC. A very serious researcher and one of his central questions is how come there isn't more resistance? Giving that everything is going to hell, you'd think there might be more there might be. Similar calls to action or some other. You know more, more inviting. Things for people to be doing anyway, he's. He's wanting to talk to people, and by the way, if anybody wants to try to connect with him, he's he doesn't record anything. He doesn't use anybody's names. Is just trying to find out what's going on. And what has gone on as part of it is doing this book so. Anybody wants to talk to him? You could ask me about. That for more details if you want to see. If that appeals to you, the conversation with him. Well, Italian embassies are getting pretty nervous. Especially because of the act of solidarity for the hunger striking Alfredo Cosby Ito. Yeah, they've had. They put out all these alerts because they've been various actions that Italian embassies here and there. On different continents, even. Yeah, there's been some. There was an arson attack outside an Italian diplomats home in Rome. Calling in an act of solidarity with cosmetology. And some other stuff like that. This is really, I mean he's it's 100 and some days 105 or 6 days now, maybe a little more than he's been on a strict hunger strike. And that's just a straight up challenge. Let's see, this is posted February 4th, but it happened back on January 19th in Toulouse in the southwest of France. This is solidarity with the demos against the Lanzarote coal mine in Western Germany. Charging stations for electric cars were burned. We don't want coal or lithium mines.

Speaker 5: Thank you.

Speaker 6: They got that figured out because that's what the target.

Speaker 5: Hey, hey, John, we. Have a we have an Eric on the phone.

Speaker 6: Oh. OK. Thanks, Carl. Hi, Eric. There, Eric. Yeah. Heather. Hi. Hi. What's happening?

Speaker 8: Hey. So you you said that you recently met with an author? And the uh, the author.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah. His name is Thomas. Zitzloff ZITZOF. He's yeah, you can find.

Speaker 8: Alright, one moment.

Speaker 6: Out about his stuff, that's what he's been doing. He has at. Least one other book out, I think.

Speaker 8: And and how do I contact this person?

Speaker 6: Well, why don't you look them up? And check it out and. I think it's. I think you can. I think his info is is readily available. He teaches at American University in Washington.

Speaker 8: All right, excellent. And you said it was. What? What was it, ZET?

Speaker 6: ZEITZ, zitzloff. Off zits off.

Speaker 5: All right.

Speaker 6: Alright, Thomas. Yeah.

Speaker 8: Perfect. Well, thank you very much.

Speaker 6: Sure. Yeah. Thanks for calling. Wow, that self allow me a free book. OK. Oh yeah, along with the. Resistance news here up in Portland just down the road. This well, this is ways back to January 20th, posted February. The third, the UPS Shipping center. Got a visit over the fellow that was killed in the. Atlanta stopped the comp city. Action. He was. A he was a. Tree sitter? Anyway, anarchist broke somewhere between 10 and 15 large windows, started multiple small fires within the building because UPS is one of the largest companies currently donating to the Cop City project. In Atlanta, which is? Set to besmirched the wall on a forest there that one of the biggest urban forests. In the world. Yeah, different stuff all around. You know, it shows that there's some. There's some resistance, some solidarity. Police cars. And this is coming back to Alfredo Prospero. Police cars were burned. In the night between the 29th and 30th of January. Belonging to the local police of Milan. In solidarity with the Italian prisoner cool speed tone. I think this is February 3rd in Berlin. I'm marking the 100th hunger strike day. Of cosmetology, we support the idea of decentralized actions and therefore allow the call for action weight from the American South. Attack on the Italian diplomatic corps in the German capital, with the targeted fire against. One of the cards of the embassy. Belonging to Luigi Historio, the first constant lero. So yeah, scattered stuff all over the place. Here's something from the US in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn, the storefront of Altitude Cannabis Club was attacked with three of its windows broken. And the message scrolling store. This is the former location, the former address of the base. An anarchist political space. That is no more. I spoke there once. It had a wonderful time. Very cool storefront info shop kind of place. Not a very big place, but they made very. Smart use of the space in various ways. Yeah, very good energy there. And Slate on February 3rd had a big article. You know, this one tries to sort out these these militant things, organizations and otherwise. There's something in Germany called, let's say, generation called, which means the last generation. It strikes me it's sort of like rebellion extinction. In the UK, I don't really know much about their. Analysis or. Or even much about their tactics. But it's. You know, something like that in Germany is always of interest to me because it's. Not a very inviting political concert there. That's changed since I've known much about it, but. Is a local announcement in Eugene here. New scene. The grassroots user powered thing tabloid kind of a thing. Graffiti #1. And I talked to Tom. Who's one of the principal people there? And he showed some of us a mock up of #2. So it's #1 just hit. So this is. This project seemed to have seems to have legs already and. Very interesting range of stuff wide open to people with stories, poetry. I'm going to have a little energy radio ad in there and #2, or maybe it's too late for #2 maybe for number. Three anyway. Very nice to see that. Graffiti has a weekly meet. I think it's every week from. 2 to 4. At the place. Let's see. It's Monroe and. 7th year 7th. It looks like a gas station. It used to be a gas. Station, but it's a. Pub. And there's a lot of space in there and. So he there to chat with? Anybody who comes by and there were there were a few people there on Saturday. So good luck to that project. We'll see. Who all makes use of that? Let's see. I think we'll take. We need to get some water. Why don't we take a music break now we've got. We're doing good. Oh, yeah. Oh, I haven't played this in ages. This is some music from rural Italy. The Maremma, which is north of Rome, South of Genoa on the West side. Very interesting music.

Speaker 5: Hey, total. Hey. 5057.

Speaker 6: Indian folk music. Very cool stuff. Well, on some tech news, some really bizarre some of this sort of bizarre as usual. Safe City is the neighborhood of Moscow created by the by the Moscow government. Touted by Moscow officials as a way to streamline its public safety. Public safety systems. But in recent years, it's 217,000 surveillance cameras. Supposedly designed to catch criminals and terrorists have been turned against protesters, political rivals and journalists about that. Yeah, well, you get your smart city, your smart home. Fully wired and surveilled. Yeah, that doesn't sound like a dystopia or anything. Not not. And AI. Surveillance dystopia and all. Certainly not. Well, I wish I could have opened this. You don't get the free stories forever from the New York Times anyway. This is from. This is a story that was in the New York Times last Thursday the 2nd. Called the teenager leading the smartphone smartphone liberation movement. And it could be this Luddite club. One of its members I don't know, but or maybe none at all. Anyway, this piece had nine co-authors. That's devoting some juice to that story, I guess, I mean. Maybe I should have worked harder to find it somewhere else, but. Anyway, the teenager leading the smartphone liberation movement. Pretty good in itself. Remember, Alec Baldwin is now being charged with involuntary manslaughter for shooting somebody to death on the. Set of uh. Rust the the. Movie they were trying to put together. Back in the fall of 2021. Well, it turns out he was distracted. He was on his phone during the safety training, the gun training. Yeah. Another distraction. Yeah. Just stay on your phone. Just zombie on out on the screen and. All the rest of it and pay no attention to anything. Get Dumber all the time and maybe kill somebody. Well, there's a story. February 4th Metro, a London outfit. Thank you RC for this one. It's called the six parts of a car collecting data about you. Just being in your car, driving your car. Of course, this is not every car far from it, but in fact not even all new cars, I suppose, but many new ones. Newer ones, just one big old surveillance. That's amazing. I wouldn't. I wouldn't have even guessed at the different ways they can do this. I mean one or two are obvious, but the but most of it. Is wow, you've. Got to really work hard to. To get your surveillance, if you know you've got it so many ways to do it. From the sanctity of your car or something like that. You know, obviously well another story from The Verge also Saturday, February 4th. This is a winner. This is something we've been waiting for. For $129, you can buy the Nix hydration biosensor. Yeah. Nicks as the company. Uh, basically it tells you when to drink water. It tells you when you should hydrate during a workout, for example. Yeah, you need a hydration biosensor to tell you if you're. Meaning liquids. How about an E device that tells you when to breathe? Yeah, I think. We need. We gonna need that one too, I guess, because obviously we don't have any agency or. Awareness of our own physical selves anymore, it's just to. I mean, it's funny, but it's also frightening as they. And I want to see, oh, another story from The Verge last Thursday. They noted that. That Apple has surpassed 2 billion active devices. Is going to lead devices from Apple. There were. That was 1.8 billion last year. Now we're in the new year and so it's. It's now passed 2 billion. Ohh, I suppose soon it'll be illegal not to have an Apple device. Well, here's something about this ties into the technology bit rather obviously, because now we've got the ease of E ordering. You just, you know, get anything from? Amazon or or wherever you don't have to. Go anywhere but. Where's the story from the LA Times today? About the smokiest place. Anywhere and mainly smog from trip pollution. That's the area. In big parts of Riverside and San Bernardino counties. Just east of LA. Now it's the dominion of thousands of massive warehouses storing millions of consumer goods. And they got to get from the coastal ports to your front door or your mailbox across. Everywhere, especially in California. Warehouses cover. More than 1.5 billion square feet of land. And lots more to come. Much more. Square footage planned or under construction already. Yeah. Again, technology hides the everyday reality. Well, it's clean, you know, just like the nice shiny computer on the shelf. You just you just place an order and then it shows up on the porch, you know, it's. It's quick, it's convenient and it's. And it's quite. Horrible. And you know the old shell gave you move that you're trying to figure out. Would shield the things and it. Will it's under all of them. Really. I mean, it's you can't just chase this the way you can ignore it. You can never think about any of this kind of stuff, but it's certainly. Powerfully there. Well, more on seabed mining, which is now ramping up. And it's certainly already a threat to marine life. This was yesterday in the Guardian, the UK Guardian. Thank you Sasha for this. Yeah, that's that's going to be. More and more. Ongoing on rushing and few people will bring their hands and we've got to watch out and we gotta be careful and blah blah blah. Yeah, right. Now here's a sort of related story from Indonesia. There's a Chinese. Nickel smelter operation there? Which has been going. For a little bit more than a year. Anyway, the workers keep dying at this. It's a Chinese company and. Indonesia's series of fatalities. In two sides, two which have plagued the nickel smelter. Gotta have the nickel. You gotta have all these rivers and middles and it's part of. This is part of the global nickel rush and another elements needed for. That's what makes them green and sustainable, you know? Yeah, it's just. All the ruin and. And the sacrifice of people who work there, obviously. But you know, it's for a good cause. It's everything will be fine when. When all of that process. Really comes to pass and it won't be costing. To anybody or any life not at all, no. Why is the home security systems? I guess that's a nationwide outfit that they announced this afternoon that they'll be down. Tonight, for two hours from midnight to 2:00 AM. Data maintenance. Kind of hilarious. Yeah. You want a security system that just shuts off for hours at a time? Yeah. Contempt to burgle your house if you. If you if you have a worthless system. This is also today's news. Volkswagen issued a recall. Notice for 21,000. Eva's electric SUVs. Citing faulty battery software that can lead to a sudden stop, it'll just stall out. Loss of propulsion. It's called. Kinda scary. You don't want to be racing down the freeway and have this car stop suddenly because there's nothing coming from the battery. Well, there there is. There is there has been opposition to some of all of this techno verse. The latest stuff this is. There was a piece in the Daily Telegraph. In London yesterday, on the 6th, and thank you RC. We're turning me on to this. You remember glass, the futuristic Cyborg accessory. They can film everything. So people would get thrown out of different places, bars and so forth because you can just be filming everything, including in the toilet or anything else. You know, it's just a. That invasive didn't really fly. Let me trying it again. I'm sure they're going to be piddling it again, but it's hard to going to see that. That won't be. Opposed at anytime they try to wreck this kind of thing. Well, let's see. The metaverse. I'm wondering just what the latest thing on that is. Well, virtual reality, of course, immerses you. But how about immersing everything in the virtual world? That's what universe aims at. Meta, Facebook's parent. Has spent over 30 billion. This is the funny way to put it on Zuckerberg's insistence that we will want 3D cartoon figures to represent us. It just looks like stupid and uh. They're wasting all this money. And so now, because this isn't really flying. There was a piece today that actually is another. Story today meta. And then pushing the universe. Of course, their VR hellscape might soon be invaded by children as the way. This came from Vox Media, I think. Anyway, the point is they're opening their VR stuff to. Younger people, 18, isn't the cutoff anymore. They're shooting for kids 13 to 17, seeing if they can beef up their. You know, be interest in this whole area or direction. Yeah, that shows it's not really catching. On there, they're. Wanting for customers and wanting for interest. Yeah, this piece in the Wall Street Journal. And this might start as early as. March. Yeah. This the main part of it is Horizon worlds. That's the platform, the social platform. Yeah, it's not really happening. It's not getting a lot of subscribers, active users, even the employee employees working on the service don't find themselves using it much. According to Alex Heath recently. So they're trying to get a younger user base to help revitalize this flagship VR app. Horizon walls. Maybe they figure. The younger they are, the more completely conditioned and indoctrinated they are. They don't know anything else. They may be wrong about that. NBC News today. Just more on the old lithium ion batteries that are really where now it's just the ubiquitous thing. In new forms of transportation, and even coming those little products just before the show, I was looking at a. A sort of boom box from Bosch and sit right on the front of it lithium ion batteries. So right there. But don't. Maybe you should leave it outside when you. Sleep anyway. These these fires are just more and more fires and more and more stuff about how intense they are. They burn so intensely. I think I mentioned something last week, a story about that. Yeah. When they and they. They release flammable toxic gases. If if the fire isn't quite enough and. Yeah, requires so much water. This is this. Yeah, this is. Story is beginning to be repetitive here. And firefighters need new training because this is such a, you know, nasty. Savage kind of burn that. Not easily put out. ChatGPT that is really a hard thing. It only started. It's a little outfit in San Francisco that kicked this off in November and now it's everywhere. And already there are rivals. Google is coming out with Bard. Microsoft is going to have Bing. Which is AI software like ChatGPT. Is a big story in the Economist. The race of the AI labs heats up all about the Stampede to have these. Quote machine learning things. And very predictably, if sadly the response and there would be no. No way to not know. Predict this. The basic responses. On one story. So the bottom line is, what do you do about that? And the prescription is think critically, think critically. If you thought critically, you'd throw all that crap away. But that's just a joke. I mean, think critically or be wary is another one. Of the punch out of these stories. Anything you can do about it? Hell no. There's a professor at Cambridge, Vice Chancellor for education that bans on AI software like ChatGPT are not, quote, sensible. You know you want to be sensible. Well, the whole thing. Kills off individuality, creativity and everything else along the way. Yeah, we have to adapt. I'm of the opinion that we have to recognize that AI is a tool people will use and, but then adapt our learning, teaching, et cetera so that we can continue to have integrity while recognizing the use of the tool. Oh, it's just so. Monstrously stupid. It's not a tool, it's a system. It's a context. It's a world. And that, you know, people have known that for decades, but that's not the ruling idea. So yeah, it's just a tool. It's just a discrete thing. It's just a neutral thing. It's just, you know, people have been saying that forever. And it's it's never been true. And it certainly isn't true now. Well, we've got some time. We've got the number is 541-346-0645. You can get in and be the second color. Pretty good article, especially the title. And last Friday's New York Times. You know, there was this story, which place was at some universities now offering a Masters degree in artificial intelligence. It was the first one. I can't think of what school it was, but it certainly won't be the last one. That recent announcement, just a week or two ago anyway, David Brooks wrote a column Friday's paper. Called in the age of AI major in being human, and with that for a major. And he's talking about what you'll never get from a bot from a chat bot. There's a billion a ban on learning going on. Yeah, that's a great title and it wasn't too bad, it's. Could go deeper but. Major in being human. Or maybe just do it without getting a major or a degree. It could still be human. And even better. Yeah, I'm kind of running out of stuff, but that's OK. Elle city. The search for extraterrestrial intelligence. There's always some to be found about that. And how they're trying to. Make contact get signals from somewhere in the universe. There was a paper published last week in the journal Nature Astronomy about some University of Toronto folks. Sharing a machine learning method for digging through the data. From the Breakthrough Listen project, that's a signals from outer space, you know, just tons of stuff every so. And anyway, they may have a way to sort that out and identify signals, or you can call them signals. It might be just noise, but potential techno signatures. And here's the punchline. Indications of technological complexity that suggests an alien intelligent alien civilization. But see the point is complexity is alien. As in alienating. So if we get if we get the high tech contact. What is? What does that tell us except somebody else made a fatally wrong step? In the evolution. We have somebody here.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we have.

Speaker 6: Eric, is that you again, Eric? OK, what's happening?

Speaker 8: Yes it is. So I wanted to talk to you in regards to about cheap GPT. Yeah. So I think that you made a very interesting point where. You had said that they say that it's a tool, but in reality it's more of you had said a system and he also said a A world. And he said that they've been doing this for decades and I found that interesting. Was hoping that you were going to expand on that. I'm, I'm curious, can you can you think of some examples as to? First of all, how is this a system? I mean I can I can, I can guess, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on. That and then also. Yeah, some examples in regards to that, they've been doing this for decades. Who? Who is they? What would have been doing? When did this start?

Speaker 6: Yeah, that was. Sorry, I was kind of compressing that out of all recognition. Well, I think basically you could say that. Any tool or technology has certain values or choices inherent to it embedded. In it, right? So so it makes no sense to say something is neutral or just a tool. That's the argument that you don't look at the technology, you don't look at the nature of it you look. Only in how it's used. Of course, with this, with this chat stuff, you can't even sell it on that front, even though that's a false point of view, I'd say. But yeah, but you know, it's, and I think to me anyway, it's I look at the.

Speaker 5: Right, right.

Speaker 6: Well, sort of. The origin of this, you could go all the way back to division of Labor, you know, which is. Always increasing, if any. Economist will agree that to that, that's what drives the thing at a basic level. Well, you know when you don't have. Much of any. Division of Labor the values are different. You know you have more flexibility. They have autonomy. For example, anyone could fashion a particular tool or device, or digging stick, or, you know, think of the most basic stuff you don't have to have experts or a coordinated system or anything like that. But then as you move along to more attenuated division of Labor, then all the rest of that comes in. And and it's easy to to look at it that the the autonomy and the flexibility and. And that sort of thing just disappears. There's no autonomy or flexibility to tech systems. You operate according to its rules. You can do various things with it, obviously, but it doesn't. But you know it's still dependent on this on the systematic or systemic setup. So that's that's.

Speaker 8: Right.

Speaker 6: Kind of what I was getting at and the. You know. What I what I meant by they've been saying this for decades. It's. It really has been the same old song, you know, it's it's just a tool. It's a discrete thing. It's doesn't have any political thing about it. It's just it depends on what you do with it. It's just. Neither good nor. Bad. Well, that's not. And that's not that. Doesn't make sense. When you look at what it is. And what it's based on? What what it's what, it's what is involved with it then you you know it's. Of course people, I mean.

Speaker 8: Well, I think I think more so the what it's typically used for by most people and the systems that that currently exist and how people most likely will use those tools because I I think you make a very good point. But I I could challenge that by by playing devil's Advocate, where I don't take take a hammer, for example, a lot of people might just use that to hammer a nail into a wall for a building project, and then some individuals might use a hammer to beat a homeless man to. And to an extent it is dependent on the individual, but for the most part so. So it's I suppose it's dependent on.

Speaker 6: Right. Well, yeah.

Speaker 8: Is that example, it's yeah. More likely than not, someone's. Going to use it to to build a house or whatever and. I'm I'm I'm not sure if there's necessarily any systems. I guess the system would be like like capitalism or system. I mean the the thing, you know, more likely than not you're but you're you're going to want to. Yeah. Produce some sort of more often than not engage with with a team of of builders who will. Yeah, assemble whatever construction project. In order to. Get their paycheck. At the end of the day, so more likely than not they're going to someone's going to use a hammer to to.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. No, I I think that's quite true. I mean, that's no doubt about it. But let's get back to the hammer. We can get back to the hammer for a second though.

Speaker 8: Yeah, there are. But individuals could do, OK.

Speaker 6: Right. The age of metals. Mining. Smelting. That's you don't have a hammer. Well, you can't have a stone hammer. Which doesn't carry all the rest of the baggage that. When you have metals into the picture, it's that's a complete conflict process. Depending on all kinds of. Not only extractivism, but. The kind of Labor that. Tends to be. Confining people to roles that are not that flexible or healthy, you know? So the hammer, it's just, you know, it doesn't come down from heaven. It's got to be produced somewhere, and all the rest of it, there's a lot.

Speaker 4: Right, right.

Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, that's.

Speaker 6: Tied up in it.

Speaker 8: Could have an awareness of these things.

Speaker 6: Well, it's good to prove though it's good to, you know, try to. Makes sense of it and I'm glad you raised the questions.

Speaker 8: Certainly. Yeah. So so to tie that back into the whole ChatGPT and AI and all of that, it's certainly worrisome. It seems like first of all, it's it's evidence. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the. The individuals that have developed these systems. In Silicon Valley, they have a very, very. Biased perspective in regards to political and social issues and so. Yeah, if you ask the software various questions that comes up with extremely biased information, which. I don't know. I think an individual who's aware of this would more likely than not just roll their eyes and then, you know, an individual who's who's also shares those biased perspectives would probably agree, you know. Oh, yeah, totally. But I I worry about the the younger generation who don't know anything. And then I don't know, this thing will end up teaching them. And they're going to learn skewed knowledge. And I think that that is intended, I think in part, I think just the individuals that that develop this system. Their biases are are just personal, just based off of their their emotions or whatever, just how they view the world. But I do think that there are other individuals working with them, various like enterprises, various, you know, political systems or. Business structures or stuff like that where there there is a mold of the future there. There is a vision. That's uh. It seems to be. It's very exploitive and it's it's a farce and I think. I think a lot of this stuff. Ultimately, it's it's kind of the the same tune that that humanity has been singing since forever, and it's human beings being animals, they they ultimately just want. Help food, water, shelter. And yeah, if you got that and you can get an even better, tastier meal, bigger house, whatever. Greed will drive individuals to, to sell out their soul. And so, yeah, I I do think that that there's. Individuals in high positions of power where they produce systems, they realize that they can't, they can't obtain all this wealth on their own. They have to produce systems where they, their little worker bees, the the the common people will do whatever the hell that that they can. Influence these people so they willingly work towards ultimately. Making these people money. And I see it a lot with. The the contemporary thing is to exploit social issues. I see a lot of various corporations and politicians exploit good-natured people who seem to be rather compassionate and and kind hearted. And they'll take advantage of that and they'll say, oh, we're the good guy. We're so eco friendly or we're so inclusive or we're so whatever the hell that that ultimately they're their PR told them that if they say this then that's going to get the worker bees on board. And they're going to be able to keep doing what they're doing, which is making money off of the worker bees.

Speaker 6: Well, yeah and. Another part of it, of course, is Division of Labor, whether it's some software or or whatever over, we've only got about a minute here, you know, and you might meet these people at a party and they'd be friendly. They'd be liberal or whatever you prefer. And you know, but that doesn't have much to do. With their role. I mean and due to division of Labor. They have less and less of an overview of how the whole thing works and what it's about. It's in terms of its origins, its dynamics and the rest of it. They probably never. You know, brushed up with any of those ideas, since they're not really respectable ideas very much. Anyway, you know, that's it, it all works.

Speaker 0: Right.

01-31-2023

[audio]

(Last week's show mostly not recorded because of technical difficulties.) Jesus Sepulveda at Sam Bond's; series now on Community Television. "We weren't meant to live like this," says JZ neighbor, "chained to an 12x18 screen." Pig culture on display at Memphis. Anti-work presence. Erratic climes. Earliest obsidian tool, prehistoric amputation. Ford recalls. Atlanta struggle,prisoner support actions. Smartphones or else. Price of technology. Lithium, chatbots, barren zeitgeist of the technoverse, one call

Speaker 1: It's John Strong from MLS on NBC. You're listening to the greatest college radio station in the world, kW VA 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 3: That's right. So. You're listening to KWVA, Eugene. It is 7:00 on Tuesday, and that means it's time for anarchy radio here in the studio with John. The number, as always, is 541-346-0645. And we have music from. Negative land to get going.

Speaker 4: Talk about medical movement. They say that we should get together and all be one big family, Catholic, Protestant. And do this, my little man. I guess they want the devil to movement.

Speaker 5: Perfect. I am God. You are God. We are all God. I am God. You are God. We are all God.

Speaker 6: I've got this. I'll break that way.

Speaker 5: I am done. You are we are all good. Work. God, we are all gone. I am God. You work fine. We are all good. I am God. You work fine. We are all gone. Houchin called the Stone twist and pervert actually says.

Speaker 6: That they are all the budget spiritual regards with a bunch of brain flickers for preachers and they haven't figured out that this thing is for real and that we are in a war.

Speaker 5: We are all the. Nation, you are nation. We are all nations. You are stable. We we are. A nation. We are anti anyone anti Christ. Anyone everywhere. Are good. We are all enabled.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 5: Carry out your lives in peace. And illegitimate babies. And you name it. And unless we are free of.

Speaker 2: Negative land? Yes, it is. And just found out there's a brand new album. Received here at this station. Maybe get into that next week. Last week. Corrupted file. Means that only about 7 minutes of the show was recorded was preserved in the recording. I think that won't happen tonight, but. Yeah, it was a mistake there. Wanted to say a word. Just a word or two about the Jesus simple vote at Sam Bonds Sunday night two nights ago. Very excellent. That was, that was a treat. We've had some good presentations last Sunday of the month, and now it's official. It's going to be at. Community TV, which is channel 29 here in Eugene area because we've got five shows in the can. The first two weren't recorded, but so anyway. Length sampling and I think the YouTube aspect of that. Is just about on offer as well. OK. And it can renew for the 31st? We've got a neighbor. Who would have to be termed? Apolitical or non political and the usual. Sense of that word. I was chatting with him the. Other day it works at home. And he said we weren't meant. To live like this. My reality is a 12 by 18 inch screen. Yeah, it's it's not a happy deal. And I see from. Euro News, thanks to RC. Charlotte Elton. Her story today, only 1/3 of people are considering putting off major life events due to climate change fears. According to a new. Study new survey. Hard to imagine what's going to happen, and this uncertainty is. On offer, obviously, because the environment, that part of it continues to deteriorate. Along with the other parts of it. This is based on a survey of 25,000 people. Across 25 countries, I think mainly Europe. Yeah. For example, having kids that that choice. Being put off. Well, a major. Story of the week, of course, was Tyree Nichols being beaten to death by the Pigs and. You know, pig culture rivals racism itself. And you know, the point here is these five. Black officers who are now being charged with. Second degree murder. They didn't count on the number of cameras which recorded the event anyway. Yeah, really, really ugly thing. On it goes.

Speaker 3: And you know.

Speaker 2: Along those lines, it was an Asian who killed Asians at Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay in California. Just about only a week ago and. And this thing was not. Do not show the racial divide. It's but something. Which is malignant. To be sure in itself. Many more shootings. I'm not, I'm. Probably giving up on listing them all. They just outbursts. Seems to be especially on the weekends but. You know, that's just. That's the reality. That's the ongoing. Reality of it. And what it says about. This is signed in particular. But here's the thing about the. Culture of work. Or the culture of anti work piece from CBS News last Wednesday. About how millions of men deals with men in the workforce have dropped out. You know, since 1953, when 98% of men between the ages of 25 and 54. We had a job. We're looking for one. It's been going down ever since. This is a long term trend. And now 7.2 million. In the US have essentially dropped out of the workforce. You know this is big and. There doesn't seem. To be any real analysis of this. Either, but another deep seated thing. It's not about unemployment, which is at 3.5% the lowest it's been in 50 years, so. Yeah, I think again. Will be unhealth on all sides. For example, Sunday, the American Academy of Pediatrics. Reports a surge in childhood obesity and that isn't anything overnight either. Just but it's. It's even worse just lately. And today, a UC Berkeley study. On valley fever in the Great Central Valley of California. Mainly up significant levels of fungal disease. And it has to do with erratic weather, drying soil to get the. With the fungus blown around and people get it and it's no laughing matter. At all. And let's see in the physical environment some interesting things. The iceberg, the size of Greater London. 600 square miles broke off in Antarctica. On Wednesday last Wednesday. On Saturday, in Mobay in northern China. 63.4. Degrees Fahrenheit below 0. Man, that's impossible to imagine. A record. Not surprisingly and down in Auckland, New Zealand. On Friday. They had about 10 inches of rain in just a very few hours. State of emergency this torrent caused severe flooding. Today the big ice storm in Texas, which is moving. Across the South. Yeah, it's winter, but gosh. And here's an odd environmental thing. Writing events off the coast of the Bahamas. Here in the northern hemisphere. Recent study in the journal Remote Sensing of Environment. There's a mysterious increase in these wedding events where you have these white. Places in the in the. And under the under the rubric of mystery, it's it's supposed to be rather the opposite. You would think in a changing climate with decreased pH that that is ocean acidification and increased temperature. You wouldn't get this. Supposedly you would. You'd have fewer events like this. But So what we observed was truly a surprise. With the 10 year episode of increased waiting events all the time. This is an interesting thing from. A researcher in Rome, subband University, which is the main University of Rome. Stone tools made of Obsidian hand axes in particular. They found about 600 of them. And this pushes. The timeline of Obsidian Tool used backed by an astonishing 500,000 years. This fine was in Ethiopia. You know that takes a lot of skill because that's a capricious, very brittle material. Takes a lot of skill to handle, is very fragile. And this was reported in the journal Nature Ecology and Evolution, Nature, Ecology and Evolution. On the weekend. Yeah, every time it seems that it's not. It doesn't go the other way, but everything gets pushed back. In terms of capacity of human species. It and it only seems to be a surprise, but once the surprise to be sure in terms of the evidence finding the evidence, but it shouldn't be a surprise. If you're questioning the the absolute primacy of the symbolic, because that's what of course is the way one. Besides what's human? Except it isn't at all, I mean. This is so far back. There's zero evidence of any symbolic activity, no symbolizing going on, OK.

Speaker 3: And you're going to.

Speaker 2: Be open to maybe they'll discover. That, but there's been no trace of it. You know. Way, way closer to now. But that's that's really something else. 1.2 million years ago. And it's not clear what group of hominins would homeless species that was. It just keeps raising that question. Maybe we got the wrong metric, the wrong measure of. How we think of what is human, what is almost species? And it's a tantalizing problem. The question. Well, lots of crazy stuff in Mexico. This is a. Health authorities in Mexico issued an alert in the middle of last week. Over a certain fix. Students are really going for. Tranquilizers, especially clonazepam. They're getting without prescriptions and some people are going to the hospital, it's. There's a game in which they. Scarf down a bunch of tranquilizer and the last one to fall asleep winds. They have a dangerous game. Yeah, one of the. One of the plagues, one of the pathologies of. Collapsing civilization. You see it all over the place. Getting back to the question of how very, very, very early. Humans were doing things figuring it out. There's a piece and I may be able to talk about this next week. Jamie van lannen. Was telling some of us about peace. Called Pre conquest consciousness. And the question of consciousness always comes in. Which is trickier. Partly because we don't really understand what consciousness is, much less how it emerges. Or what it's like, say, in a million years ago, but this piece by Richard Sorensen, pre Conquest consciousness. Has to do that. It seems to be. Questioning the necessity or the? Your parents, really, of things like number and language? Were those things needed? And apparently he's uncovered. Functioning people. That didn't have those things. So when did they become needed? How does that work? One last thing, in this kind of random grab bag here is forward in the news last Friday, Ford recalling 420,000 of SUV's. Because the rear camera apparatus. Has been failing and has caused at least 17 accidents. And the from Ford on Sunday. This has to do with their SUV's as well. Explore SUV's. In recent years of those. Makes our models. Involving 1.86 million vehicles, that's a lot of Ford SUV's. And weight the windshield trim panel. Not exactly sure what that is. Tends to fly off at highway speeds, vaporizing you if you're driving by in one of these Fords, that's coming apart. So yeah, the wonders of technology. It seems kind of clear that they can't build a car that actually. Doesn't need to be recalled. Pretty nutty. It's 541, it's called tools here, 541-346-0645. You know, I want to drive to your attention. This has been in the news more and more. Solidarity acts in support of the struggle in Atlanta. To preserve and protect the willani. Forest there. You can go to illwill.com ill will additions. For a wonderful source of. Information about all this up-to-the-minute stuff. What's happening by these forest defenders and? Against them. A lot of wonderful pamphlets and literature available on the. This major deal that's going on in Atlanta, it's been going on for a couple of years. It's not. They're not fooling around. Yeah, that's this. That's a wonderful source. Oh, I think we have a phone. Call coming in. All right. All the prices.

Speaker 3: So we have Tommy. OK, Tommy.

Speaker 7: Ohh hey John.

Speaker 2: Hi there. How are you?

Speaker 7: Doing good, how are you?

Speaker 2: Good, good, pretty cold here, but. Not too bad.

Speaker 1: Oh, that's good.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Just wanted to tell you what you were talking about a minute ago. The finding, they keep pushing the dates further back. And you might have already heard. Of this one but. There's a this one is really cool Stone Age surgery. Earliest evidence of amputation found. Yeah, and it was a successful amputation on a child. In Borneo. And they they lived and they healed really good from it. It was 31,000 years ago. So I just wanted to bring that. Up to you, that's. It's pretty amazing and just what you were talking about.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that fits right in. I have not seen that. Yeah, I'll check that out. Good to know.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. This this one I found from the University of Sydney. Yeah, it's really cool. They found the bones and. You know, they figured it out and so.

Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Ty.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Thanks John.

Speaker 2: We're well out there. Great.

Speaker 7: OK.

Speaker 2: Alrighty. Well yeah, well Chris also. In the news in terms of struggles. Sadly enough, the rising violence. In Israel is expansionist Zionism. Keeps on progressively stealing all Palestinian territory. And of course it can't. It's not too. Totally absolve the. Palestinian Authority, for example, Abbas has been running that over 50 years now, so it's not exactly. Anything remotely Democratic, either, but. That's a rising. Of opposition and it seems. To be brought on, all the more by far right. Ultra Zionist government. So we'll see what goes down next. Well, there's a. Lot of stuff going on, mostly in Europe. January 16th in Berlin. About 25 delivery vans of the company Amazon, which obviously is a major temple of consumer society. Yeah, we gain access to a well secured site. Not too well, not well secured enough of fire and solidarity with the occupiers and lights are off the lignite mind. Which. Cause the. The whole hamlet to be wiped out so they could do more dirty mining of coal. And in solidarity with prisoners. Including the hunger strike prisoners. This this goes way back, but it was only just very, very recently posted Friday, December 16th. Pile of tires. On the rail of. Well, basically the Paris rail system. Around 7:00 AM in the middle of rush hour, disrupting the start of this day of commerce, we wanted to target the Canadian. No, I'm sorry this isn't. Paris it's Montreal. By disrupting the start of the safe economies, we wanted to target the Canadian economy and contribute. To avenging. Nature under the coastal gas link drilling. And much more. To now, January 30th. Straw Mog a straw Mog vehicle was torched. Straw MOG Construction Corporation runs a dirty business highway and jail construction. And it's it's tied in with the the mining and the western part of Germany. Towards that on up. OK, let's see. Let's just get through some of these now. Buenos Aires, January 4th. It seemed to be kind of pumping around date wise but. Wednesday The 4th, 2:00 AM, I set fire to the Volkswagen car dealership. In Buenos Aires. Argentina leaving at least four vehicles damages very, very often. Some nice photos that act for freedom now. January 12th and Leipzig in the eastern part of Germany, Hertz vehicles were. Torched in solidarity with anarchist prisoners. Hertz is even more complicit than most corporations, apparently. In the photo shows, two or three of them. And in in central Italy, Spoleto in particular. This is posted on the 23rd. So this happened right near that. Date I believe. The oil tax tycoon Del Papa, who's responsible for the deaths of several workers. We attacked the electric systems of his gate with fire. And yeah, make making a certain statement there. Yeah, boy, this is a kind of a. Case of arson actions in Italy. For example, in Rome on the 22nd of January 3 vehicles of Italian utilities were burned. On the 28th and turn. At telecommunications tower. Was set ablaze and on the 30th in Rome. 5T IM Telecommunication Corporation vehicles. Then a similar. Are some fate in solidarity with anarchist prisoners, including Alfredo Cosmetology. Who is now on an over 100 day long hunger strike? Also in support of other anarchist prisoners, such as Anna Beniamino. This is 1 from. Canada. There were four different. The four right were outnumbered, out, shouted and out. Flag waved in Coquelin, Peterborough, S Saint Marie in Calgary. Yeah, these were. Drag shows. These bands from the right. In Coquitlam, hundreds of gaily dressed drag defenders showed up to protect Connie smudges, drag story hour by holding a party between the far right bullies and the library hosting the party. That was in, it's going down on the 24th. Well, let's see. While we await another call, maybe I should take a music break right around now. All right. This is, yeah, the last track. Of the Brian Eno. Interesting letter. This week's weekly. Deb Huntley by name. It was labeled artificial intelligence stifles creativity. Pretty generally, Luddite kind of letter here, which is nice. Part of it toward the end reads. Creativity is a human gift, as is loving the natural world. And loving other people computer programs. And robots with artificial intelligence. Are not capable of human perception or affection. That's yeah. Low tech is becoming more and more valuable in all stages of education. Yeah, she is booking progress. Good to see that made explicit. Thank you, Richard, for this one from global News, January 17th. Kind of obvious, but I'm glad it's being said publicly. It's about. This is a study from Montreal researchers. Our findings clearly demonstrate the price we pay for technology. Just messes you up, and this is. Piece appeared in the Open Access journal. Neuro image. And it talks about, among other things, zoom fatigue. That people feel pretty commonly. And you know, one of the more basic points of the piece is that communication between people is less effective when it's done through technology as opposed to in person. And they're getting the. Giving the evidence for that. That conclusion? Well, in Pakistan on Monday. The entire power grid went down. And on Friday, T-Mobile announced another data breach impacting 37 million accounts not quite as important as what happened in Pakistan. Yeah, whatever happened to any shred of privacy. And this is kind of cute in in its own. Tragic way. I guess he is a Daniel Raven. Riding in spiked spiked, I hadn't heard. Of thank you **** on the 23rd. UM. The phoneless are maybe the last minority group. It's OK to discriminate against. And Daniel writes, quite simply, there is no alternative now for anyone be as creepy cookie or cookie as you like, but you must have a smartphone. Speak your truth to your heart's content. But you must have a smartphone. This is a free country where differences are celebrated. But you must have a smartphone. Oh man, and of course. You know, he's aware. Uh, it's not just some choice in a vacuum or something. And so he says. He writes well. Let's see how far I get. I dare say I'll be laughing on the other side of my face when it inevitably becomes impossible to get on a plane, get medical treatment, or buy literally anything from anyone without using an app. So he's hating on it. Yeah, they captured a lot of reality or that. Microsoft, you know, there's always layoffs. In the high tech industry. Microsoft will shut down Alt Space VR, the social virtual reality platform. It acquired in 2017 and this is tied in with job cuts. Affecting 10,000 in the case of Microsoft. And you wonder what's going on with the metaverse with all this. And there's a lot of hesitation. And not much to show for it this project it's already. You know. Going onward to the cost of billions. Supposedly this shift. Will focus on immersive experiences well, that sounds like the Metaverse, doesn't it? Anyway, this is all. It's all tied together somehow, and I'm wondering if this metaverse is going to just be parked by the side of. The road. And we'll begin to understand that. As weird as it is, it's it's ain't really happening. I wouldn't be surprised. Well, there's another thing about the technology now. We've passed the place where coal takes it. Takes a back seat to solar, wind and hydropower. Solar, wind and hydropower account for 21% of energy. And energy from coal is only 20%. But carbon emissions grew in 2022 even as US renewables. Supposedly renewable surpassed coal. This is back on the 11th, the New York Times reports. And good old lithium. You know, I I mentioned the horrors of mining and then processing lithium and the other side, which I've also mentioned from time to time, the fire is. This is about two weeks ago. I think I a late night house fire. In Queens, NY. Yeah. Elmhurst, Queens on a Friday night. One dead in that thing. It started with the lithium ion battery fire. And just this past Saturday. A Tesla Model S bursting of flames on a Sacramento freeway. Yep, it was the lithium battery. These things really burn savagely. This fire was so intense that it required 6000 gallons. Of water to extinguish it. And they burn with the purpose. But let's keep mining it and processing it and making cars with. Battery cards, which are so much heavier. And here's something this is from the Guardian. Uh Sasha sends this. I appreciate that from January 24th. Here's the punchline. The US's transition to electric vehicles could require three times as much lithium as is currently produced for the entire global market. So this will involve water shortages, indigenous land grabs, ecosystem destruction. Yeah, it sure is a good idea. It sure is. Renewable somehow. It warns this piece by. Nina Lakhani. That unless the US's dependence on cars and towns and cities falls drastically, the transition to lithium battery powered electric vehicles by 2050 will deepen global environmental and social inequalities linked to mining. And it and we certainly won't hit that. Ceiling and keep under the ceiling of. 1 1/2 degrees Celsius temperature rise. So there's the cost of that looming ahead. And more and more on ChatGPT. This is from the Verge last week. Springer Nature, which is the biggest publisher of academic journals. So they have their finger on the pulse of academe. So the articles that they end up publishing in these journals. It's quite a problem. Yeah. When we when we think of authorship of scientific papers of research papers, we don't just think about writing them. So trying to make this distinction where you can be assisted by these AI chat bots. But don't let him write the whole thing. So where do you draw that line? What I mean that's just. That's not really a valid. Criterion it's just. And by the way, reaction, it goes on to say reaction in the scientific community to papers crediting ChatGPT as author. Has been predominantly negative with social media users calling the decision absurd, silly and deeply stupid. Yeah. Good luck with that. Yeah, you can. You can work yourself up over that and ain't nothing going to stop this. And the software doesn't know. I mean. The software you can't claim intellectual property rights, by the way. For what it kicks out, it can't correspond with other. People in the field or the press to explain and answer questions on its work. You know just uh. Yeah, when you don't have humans doing it. You just run into a cascade of problems. Ed *******, writing in the Daily Telegraph. January 18th. Is a piece called the truth about AI and killer robots. It's kind of a flashy title that really isn't about killer robots at all, but. You know it basically it's, it says, but we can already see that these AI chat bots quote could rewrite the future of learning. Yeah, I'm up that. Well, what we're learning is an ever greater dependence on technology. That's the lesson. And you're just being plunged to that more and more. You know this AI software is writing everything, all kinds of business reports, sports report, anything you can think of in seconds. And there's certainly going to be much more of that. This is. Only the beginning of that. Well, they it. It pointed out that. You know you can't. You can't get it ChatGPT to. Do your gardening, for example. I mean, any any physical real thing is.

Speaker 0: No boy.

Speaker 2: Is not part of this, you know. You can give the command to the. To the robotic thing. Go and uh. Do something in the actual world? Well, no, obviously not. And I've seen various long pieces on all this on the AI bots that can write and all the rest of it. One of them said the the punch line, the bottom line thing is be wary. That's the prescription. Be wary. Yeah, there's a there's an empty, pointless comment. Be wary. Yeah, that's right. Just be a little skeptical. It just marches in and. On all fronts. That's ridiculous. Be wary and don't don't question what's basically going on here. Just be wary. That's a nice. Wimped out liberal. Response I guess. It is predicted that within just a few years, deep fake technology. Will make up to 90% of online content. Synthetically generated, yes, the deep fake thing. That's that's pretty slick. It's hugely proliferating. And wow up to 90% will just be. Fake stuff. Hence the name deep fake. Now this is a couple of crazy deals here. A new app. Brings the experience to your phone. With help from an artificial intelligence chat bot. Allowing users to have text conversations. With robots meant to simulate the perspectives of notable people from history. From Babe Ruth to Adolf Hitler. Yeah, it's a way to have it. I guess they have a lineup of 20,000 notable people. And the app is called historical figures. So you can have an artificial chat with. Somebody long dead. Well, Spotify. The music. Went dead last week for a while. More than 30,000 users. This was. This story came out on Thursday the 26th. Yeah, the service is down. Second time. The Spotify service has gone down this month. Less than two weeks. Ago there was a similar outage a matter of hours, you know. And now the University of Texas at Austin is offering an Masters degree in artificial intelligence. This was announced last week end of the week first, but not the last. Certainly not the last until. But he said his scramble is crap. Oh, Gee, is the story from Saturday Saturdays New York Times. There's a fight. Over a copper mine. The Rio Tinto Corporation, which is the biggest one in the world. Biggest mining outfit big. Big demand for copper electric vehicles have three times as much copper as regular old. Gas burning cars. An Apache spokesperson. This is an eastern Arizona. We're confronting that big dominant way this corporate way of life. It's two ways of thinking about clashing. There is no room for both. One will be destroyed. Man, that that really is the nail on the head. Yeah, that's about as. Blunt and. Honest as you can get, I think. And now Google researchers have made an AI that can generate minutes long musical pieces from text prompts. Or it can even take a hummed melody into. Some realms of music it's called. Music LM. So the machine will be doing, everything will be writing, it will be making music and the as the human subject becomes more inert and stupefied by technology. Oh, but that is a nice thing. This is from the Sunday. New York Times two days ago, full page ad from. Fiver.com. Fiber sends an open letter to AI. And they say. They have added ChatGPT, mid, journey, other AI chat bots but. We offer a partnership. We offer a human touch. To go with all this hideous technology, take over. Yeah, that's that's right. We just need a little liberal humanizing. You know, a little pinch of that and everything will be fine. It won't certainly won't slow down anything. It's not meant to be. In in any way oppositional. OK. In the New York Times magazine on Sunday, Cal. Newport. Says that digital workplace. Our disaster because constant. Context shifting makes you miserable and makes you worse at doing anything with your brain. In other words, it's dodging all around. You know. Shifting switching gears and. It just scrambles your brain, basically, but the piece has absolutely no prescription. Yeah, it just just says it. Yeah. OK, Cal. This unsupported, unsurprising conclusion. You got nothing to offer on that. Yeah, pretty good. Well, let's see. This is kind of amazing from yesterday's New York Times. Story called can kpop make the metaverse cool? Yeah, Kpop, which is bad synthetic music. Really low level stuff. But for the virtual world, get virtual entertainment. It's as empty and false as the music. I think that's not what he said. Uh, he's not. Making that connection. So yeah. New new low for music in South Korea, which of course is a high tech capital, if not the high tech capital. Yeah, just just another word about. Hey, Jesus, it's Sam bonds. That was really very cool evening. People were quite engaged in that and. He did a very interesting conversation. He he said to me afterwards. Or maybe it was during the thing he said it publicly. Yeah, as a matter of fact, he said. What I do is just rambling. And I thought that is the best example of rambling I think I've. Hired in quite a very long time, in other words, yeah, he's letting it flow. I mean, he's a poet and but he had a lot to say, and he nailed a lot of stuff. And very attentive. Nice turnout for that. Well, I think kind of run out of steam here. Or be sure to. Stay tuned for transcendent phase with Carl. That's always very cool coming up Next up next. Oh, I've got. I've got. I got time to read. This I. Think I think it's the most recent column I did for the weekly. How it works? It has been said that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of civilization or capitalism, which is odd in the civilization of capitalism, are bringing about the end of the world. But I think it has begun to dawn on people that the main institutions designed to control nature are weaving the calamity they've claimed to protect us from. Meanwhile, the domination of things as they are. As they continue to develop, may seem irresistible. For example, an ever more technological society. Built on the systems, destruction of nature may seem inevitable. There certainly are differences among political system. But there are also fundamentals shared by every modern setup elements such as division of Labor, domestication, civilization, which always ends up as a parasite consuming its host, are not allowed in what passes for political discourse, the monopoly of chatter is about this figure or party versus the opposing ones, enforced by mainstream corporate media. And millions or billions of dollars distinctions, to be sure, but without basic different. Technology never seems to reverse course, which has to do with the difficulty of challenging the ruling order. German critical theory philosopher Theodore Adorno said that it is futile to look for the factor that is to blame for all the ills of society when that factor is society itself, which never reverts to a less alienating place. Social existence is a totality in our global civilization. Each part goes forward in tandem with every other part moving together as a whole. The modern world especially leaves little room for independent action, Oasis of freedom. It takes great courage to seize these rare opportunities. Behind the baffling failures of a more and more hollow social reality stands the overall failure of modernity considered from any angle, the radical shift towards what's qualitatively different must, as ever, arise from our doubts and our. Doubts are inevitable, since contemporary life fails to satisfy most or all of our authentic needs. And what need is greater than our hunger for presence for the primary experience of face to face, friendship and love, whose absence is the measure of the deepest poverty? Well, thanks for listening and. It'll be well, it won't be until the 21st that that captains on with me. And, but who knows what surprises? Can happen before that. Thanks for listening.

01-24-2023

[audio]

Mass carnage, shootings a part of pathology of civ imploding. As scary: how the juggernaut of technology is enveloping everything. Weather, health, extinctions.The Deluge by Stephen Markley. Nothing outside plastics. Deep fakes uber alles. What next? Online drives fatigue. "How Technology is Bringing Dead Relatives 'back to life'". Light pollution. Atlanta and varieties of solidarity and resistance. Two calls.

[Only have short clip from the end.]

Speaker 1: Perhaps with an interactive element? Yeah, it's it's kind of. A VR form of memory I I suppose you could say that. As wacky as it sounds there. Yeah, the whole techno thing. What does it rest upon? Yesterday, the entire power grid of Pakistan went down. Yeah. There you go. There's that good old interdependence and vulnerability and. Yeah. The entire power grid of that country. Just a little scary. And let's see, here's another. Tech benefit the the brightness of the night sky. Has risen by an average of 10% each year. This is in the news on the weekend. Yeah, this. The previous estimates were made using satellite data. Which put that figure at closer to 2% increase. In other words, the light pollution which makes sleep and all kinds of other things. Problematic has worsened, actually at a much faster pace than expected. And part of it is a part of it anyway, is LED lighting. Which satellites can't really measure for some reason? Anyway, the brightness of the night sky double s. About every eight years. Can't see the stars much anymore? That's. That's the direction that's going on. I think everybody knows that. Well, boy, here's here's the word on a good old topic, plastics. Now there's a lot of talk about. Recycling plastics? Because plastic pollution is one of the defining legacies of modernity. And the latest piece that I saw, and this is from the BBC, it's now so widespread, it is even finding its way into fruit and vegetables as they grow. Plastics in the wound plastics. As you breathe the air. So hey, we got to get going with the recycling. Well, according to the federal government's National Renewable Energy Lab in Colorado. Wait just a second, just now we're talking about or reporting on so-called advanced recycling. This is a process using chemicals and. Often extremely high heat well. That approach is very costly and comes with significant environmental impacts. These technologies require large amounts of energy and emit significant pollutants and greenhouse gases. If you want to turn plastics into oil or fuel or chemicals. The chemicals that are rendered are toxic, by the way. Yeah. So Gee. That isn't exactly working, no. Uh, let's see, maybe this is. About it here gaming. Gaming is so giant gamification, you know. Video game industry was worth nearly 200 billion last year. Or no in 2021. More than music, US book publishing and North American sports combined. Wow mega. It employs hundreds of thousands of people in the US alone. So it's now a major cultural institution. A cornerstone of American life. Video games. Oh my. Yeah, I have to accept those. Those numbers. If there's some blowback on that, that might be nice, but I'm afraid the magnitude of it is there. Well, thanks for listening. I appreciate the calls. We're going out with what do we got? Oh, Darrell Grant from Portland. He moved out here from New York.

Speaker 0: Darrell Grant.

Speaker 1: Yeah. What's the name of it?

Speaker 0: Someone's called the territory.

Speaker 1: The territory, a wonderful suite of music. Thank you, Arthur.

01-17-2023

[audio]

Special guest: Fern Thompsett on efforts to live outside tech society in the Pacific Northwest. Climate extremes worsening by the day. AI chatbots unleashed', crises ensue. Major fails of the week, one call.

Speaker 1: Reporting.online@kwvaradio.org Plus, we're on Twitter at KWA Sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM, right here on KWVA Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 0: Be afraid.

Speaker 5: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host jonesers, and The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of KWBA Eugene or.

Speaker 4: Anyone else? That's right. You are listening to KWVA, Eugene, where it's 7:00 and. We are in the studio. With John and a special guest that I'll let him introduce in just a minute. Right now, we're all getting seated. We're putting our headphones on and getting all ready to go. Let's listen to some music from who was this the. We're gonna listen to some punk rock music.

Speaker 6: The partisan.

Speaker 3: Politicians in the USA, politicians in Russia.

Speaker 0: It's on the.

Speaker 3: Right. The street.

Speaker 6: It was the partisans. And then it gets the name of that track. It was called partisans. Very early poker stuff. January 17th, Anarchy Radio and Special Surprise guest. My friend Fern Thompson, who's out here. We're going to get off into that and you might want to call if you have any questions for her.

Speaker 0: What's that?

Speaker 6: For that number is 541-346-0645. Show it to you. Yeah. I just want to catch up on a few things we might kind of hop back and forth there, but unfortunately, we have the hour. While the flooding in California has killed more people than the severe wildfires of very recent years. And at the same time, I was just reading about this, this morning's New York Times. The suburban community of Rio Verde, AZ has no water. The extremes of weather. Yeah, they got no water. And like the black communities in Flint, MI are Jackson, Ms. Well, there's water, but you better not drink it. Later, earlier in the week, honest eight years of Earth history. Europe's hottest summer was 2022, hottest ever. The Industrial Age is worse each year as we know. Yeah, I want to. You know what I think I'll catch up on because I didn't get to this segment at all last time. I can't remember why, but the old resistance stuff, resistance briefs. Let me just run through that kind of quickly. Incendiary visit to the Farmsen Job Center near Hamburg. Oh, the phone seems to be beeping already. On the night of December 25th. A job center degrading welfare kind of stuff that they put people through anyway. People will significantly reduce their vehicle fleet by means of fire, so that's. God, shall we? We mainly never call her.

Speaker 4: We certainly do. This is Max, Max, Max.

Speaker 7: Thank you.

Speaker 6: You know a dog named Max. Thanks for calling.

Speaker 7: Yeah. I'm sorry. Is it all right if this is kind of unrelated to the catastrophes in California? I just want to say I'm a medical student, so I'm graduating the next year. We'll be getting an MD degree and I'm just calling in because I just recently noticed. And it's become apparent to me how common it is that patients come in sick with preventable causes. In which the the etiology or the cause is. If I'm going to. Be honest. Frankly, due to society, I was reading guidelines from the American, the AFP, American Academy of Family Physicians. They say 40% of illnesses faced by family care physicians are due to. Psychosocial phenomena, whereby etiology is conservatively due to our society.

Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you're. You're going through the training for all that to have to jump into that.

Speaker 7: It's kind of if I want to be honest, frustrating, because when I see patients like this, I kind of want to, you know, when they ask me what should I do, what kind of medication should you know, should I recommend to them? I kind of just want to say your medication is great, but maybe just get out of here.

Speaker 6: Yeah, if possible.

Speaker 7: I had a patient yesterday with severe anxiety. I mean, everything would cause her just enormous amounts of anxiety and depression, and she was saying she, unfortunately, because social determinants of health doesn't have a lot of education, she told me. She's a slave to these ****** jobs that are causing her tremendous stress. Lack of pay. She can't pay her way out of her situation and I don't. I still don't know. What to say? To her about that, I mean.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. Here we are.

Speaker 5: Are you in the city? Is this a?

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 6: Medical Center in. The in the city in the US.

Speaker 7: Yes. In the Midwest, yeah.

Speaker 6: Uh, it was. Yeah, yeah, we're all facing that. It's a totalizing thing. It's the whole context now. Getting worse and you're trying to figure out. What's next? And it's usually a. A further step, a worsening step. Going to be some kind of challenge mounted. You have colleagues that I sort of assume feel the same way.

Speaker 7: Yeah, but they're not willing to say exactly what the cause is. They'll say, you know, the cause is the person didn't exercise or the cause is the person isn't eating right. Well, why are they not eating? Right. Why are not they're not? Able to exercise. You know it's it's Midwest, so it's Rust Belt. So you know the air quality isn't the best either. There's there's. There's no way out of it. I mean, there's, there's, there's also tremendous food deserts. We had a patient like a week ago who got angry with us because the doctor was like, you know, you need to change your diet. And he's like how I live in a food desert. There's no grocery stores. There's no available vegetables. I can't. I work three-part time jobs. I can't afford a car out of here. Just flight buses like what am I supposed to do? And I an astonishing moment. Where? I he was right. I. Couldn't think of an answer.

Speaker 6: Ohh gosh.

Speaker 8: Hmm, it sounds Max like you're one of the tensions that you're experiencing. Is that some of your colleagues that kind of pathologizing or individualizing the causes of what you're seeing was you're really tending to diagnose things at a structural level? And I mean it just kind of makes me curious like you were mentioning that a lot of a lot of what people are experiencing who are coming to you, a lot of those experiences are caused by these kind of broader social phenomena. And I'm just wondering if you, I mean, I'd be really curious to hear what. What you would name is some of the key causes you know you gave the example of this person who was talking about their job. But what are some of the other things that you're seeing?

Speaker 7: Well, so it's kind of in line with the the top ten causes of death in America or the top 15 top, the top 15. Sorry. Ten of them are preventable chronic illnesses, so. I mean, we can trace a lot of it down straight to hypertension, diabetes. You can think. Of things like emphysema, COPD. Cancers which we're starting to realize has a huge components, you know, related to our diet, exercise, the way of life. I mean just the sheer amount of stress that everyone is dealing with nowadays. It's hard to. Say I mean. It's a little bit of everything. You can probably point nearly every disease and actually now I'm thinking about. I remember in one of my lectures my very first year medical school, one of the doctors said, you know, I was just paraphrasing. He said 90% of. You can prevent 90% of illnesses by properly exercising, knowing and understand diet, getting outside and spending time with loved ones. And it. Yeah, I the patients I see they don't. They don't have any of that. And a lot of the patients. Also come alone. They live alone. They're. Single I I just did an obstetrics and gynecology rotation, so I was seeing babies being born every day and I got to tell you, maybe 20% of the mothers had. Someone there with them as their birth, I mean. It's really sad.

Speaker 6: Oh, wow. Yeah, the isolation is certainly on the rise. The loneliness is so much written about it.

Speaker 3: Even hot?

Speaker 7: Even Hospice, it's something like 30%. Of patients in Hospice, had nobody visits them. Imagine dying chronically of a painful, scary illness and. The ones you do.

Speaker 8: What about stress amongst medical workers? Max, are you seeing that as well?

Speaker 7: Oh yeah. We we have much higher rates of suicide. It's definitely gotten stressful for all of us, and as medical students and residents, the residents are the the medical students that graduate but aren't necessarily full, full doctors. Yet they're specializing, for example. We all have, like an average of 200,000. Dollars of debt. So I'll be approaching that amount. So it's not even a place where you can escape. I mean, Midwest you can. Buy a nice house. With a little over 200,000. Dollars. But you know. You come out of it with. A lot of knowledge. Incredible amounts of debt and residents get paid maybe 10 bucks an hour working 80 hours a week, you know?

Speaker 6: Well, the system kind of softens you up to be more dehumanized. I I know somebody who went through Harvard Medical School and he said that was exactly the point of it is to kind of beat people down and. They're less able to think outside of that or resist in some way. They just, they're fitted into the place that serves the system that you know, that's part of the whole thing.

Speaker 7: There's a specialization which is making doctors even you know, frankly stupid if they specialize in something.

Speaker 6: Well, gosh.

Speaker 7: Like heart surgery, which is fantastic, they're often pretty stupid in the other organ systems, which makes them incompetent because you know you're not just a heart.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. That's part of the way it works. Division of Labor is always worsening. Well, Max, thank you for calling. It's the. Important call to be sure.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Thank you. For posting this, it's been awesome listening.

Speaker 6: Take care out there.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 6: Wow, it started us off with a heavy one.

Speaker 8: Yeah. I mean, I think you made a really good comment, John, that there's a kind of totalizing system behind many of these things that people are you know, are coming to see medical workers like Max with it. It is hard to put our fingers on the causes of different things. It's all really imbricated.

Speaker 6: I love that Adorno quote about how it's useless to look at the what what's what's gone wrong with the system when the problem is the system, not any particular thing. It's it's all of it. It's the nature of it and my other favorite quote the university teaches you everything about society except what it is. I find that killer. I always go back to. That one spot on. Well, maybe I can whip through some more of this, but. Feel free to call us. Feel free to change the subject and uh, yeah, and we'll get on other things too, but a little bit more on the on some of these action briefs here. Where was I December 26th? We sit fair to two construction machines, fare machines. They're building more subway stuff in Athens. Yeah. Destroyed three of of those machines. And let's see. Oh, lots of lots of awesome solidarity stuff. Prisoner support. Which one is this one? Yeah. On the night of December 29th, we did our part. We sabotaged the main entrance of the Italian consulate with 25 liters of oil. And yeah, this is Alfredo Cosmetology, which is probably the most well known hunger striker, but. He's not the only one, and he's not even the only hunger strike person either. And in Triest triest. Represents the unit credit branch attacked with hammers. In solidarity with Alfredo, conspirator and all revolutionary prisoners. Doesn't give too many details, but. The bank was.

Speaker 8: Hammered. Wow, hammers. Yeah. Good old school analog. Yeah. Nice solid.

Speaker 6: Yeah, hammer. Good on hammers. Ned ludd. And there's one from. New year, same crap, having nothing to celebrate, we decided to attack, taking advantage of the chaotic New Year's Eve festivities. Set fire to a fiber optic tower. In Rome, while the fireworks were going on and ever tightening network between control and social anesthesia, but which also means that its links and nodes are everywhere, therefore, everywhere attackable. And this is Rome as well. Oh, electric car charging points in Rome. We damaged 6 of them. We did this by, well, it gets into details, but they attack 6 on it. Evenings work in Rome and estra. This is in southern. France, near Marseille, New Year's Eve. They burned the municipal police center. In the small town near there. That's what police officers were helpless in facing the disaster. Again, New Year's Eve, what's the fireworks going on and? Yeah, that's pretty cool. And and another one at the very. End of December. While some are driving Teslas and are warm at home, we we don't have the money to pay our bills to keep warm. We made a good fire with the charging station for electric cars. This is near Toulouse in southwest France. Stateless technology goes in the direction of electricity for everything, in particular with nuclear power, which is an industry of death. The death of the pearls colonized in the uranium mines. Et cetera. They know what's going on.

Speaker 5: And in Berlin.

Speaker 6: In the first hours of January 3rd. In support of somebody not contribute to but another. Our target was a truck from the car rental company, Hertz, which we burned completely. Because Hertz provides vehicles to the enemy. Cops guards at reduced prices. And on the 7th of January. Well, this is kind of an odd thing. Extinction. Rebellion. You might have seen their announcement. You know, they were getting very militants with disruptive activities, but they've decided to dial it back apparently. They're going to have just one big protest. Planned for April 21st, they're getting. Probably feel like getting too much heat for blocking roads and. And all that sort of thing if you wonder. Maybe that's a tactical move that's necessary at. The moment I don't know. January 9th, Oakland, CA. The Wood St. Commons this is a long homeless camp. I-80. In in West Oakland. They're fighting eviction as usual. In Chicago, squatters are taking over abandoned houses controlled by the Housing Authority there. And nice news from Russia. An eventful start to the year from Moscow in just five days, partisans in quotes have managed to damage Russian railroads 6 times. Making it difficult. For the military trains, not the first time, the traffic on the Russian railroads has been interrupted by guerrilla tactics. This is at least the 6th case of destroyed alarm units and blocked or damaged railroads, according to Ukraine, in 2022 at least 40 sabotages were committed, mainly targeting railway Transformers as well as locomotives. Man, that's serious stuff. And let's see one or two more January 12th. This is your antifa type stuff. Hundreds of Neo Nazis gathered in York, PA. It's the South part of Pennsylvania to promote white supremacy. They didn't get very far. Anti fascist make common cause with locals and sent the fascist packing. All right and. Yeah. The further report from Chicago report from so-called Chicago. Yeah, they're they're taking over these properties. And used properties and one last one near Hamburg. Oh, OK, started with that one. This is another. This is the same place the farms and Job center. Weeks after the. The earlier one. So anyway. Stuff goes on. Not enough stuff goes on here in the US, but anyway. Pretty cool. Well, I'd like to get right to talking to my friend. You've been entering the Pacific Northwest doing field work. Toward a dissertation, can you just tell us a little about the outlines of that?

Speaker 8: Yeah, happily. Yeah, so I'm. I'm partway through. Well, I'm working toward a PhD in cultural anthropology. So as you mentioned, I've just come to the end of my official field work period, although I've been. I've been at it for, I don't know. Six years. You know, I've had, like, a A2 week official field work period, but I've been in the Pacific Northwest most summer since I started my PhD. A long time ago. But but I think the more interesting part, as you asked about is. You know. What's it all about? What it what is the field? Work about and. So just to give folks. A pretty general outline, I became really interested in green anarchist and anti civilizational texts many years ago, before I thought about becoming a grad student. Actually I was reading work by different writers, including your work. John and I found the critiques of mass society. Technological society and the kind of. Like agricultural, colonial, capitalist Nexus, base of this mass society, I found those critiques really compelling and at the same time, I mean this kind of goes back to the comment that you made to our caller, Max, about about how totalizing these systems are. At the same time, as soon as they. Realized how compelling I found these critiques I felt equally. At a loss. For how to live ethically right, you kind of in some ways you you find yourself. Confronting your opposition to just about every structure that you've grown up with and depend on, and so I thought, well, geez, you know, what are other people doing who might be equally compelled by these critiques? But of finding ways in the world to live in ethical life outside of these totalizing structures? So my questions were, you know, how are people finding ways to live ethically, given these critiques, what does it feel like to do so? I was really interested in, you know, do people feel? People frustrated. Do they feel a sense of despair? Is it joyful? Is it exhausting? Is it? You know, what does it feel like to build these radical other worlds within or outside or beyond these really totalizing structures? And then is it even possible? Like, does it? Does it feel like building something? Alternative or do people feel like their efforts are being Co opted back into the kind of totalizing structures that they're opposing? So these are my questions, and I and I came to the Pacific North. Best to try to find and amplify the stories of people who were attempting to live in these ways, in part because the Pacific Northwest seems to have been a hub for riders such as yourself, John and other people following similar lines. I mean, obviously there are people all around the world. Who are writing and thinking and acting in these ways? So in some ways, the choice of the Pacific Northwest, you know, I could have gone to a number of different places around the world, but I like it. And it so happened that the very first writers I read, who really changed my mind in radical ways about things, were mostly based in this part of the world. So I wanted to come here.

Speaker 6: Imagine you've you've discovered all kinds of variants depending on outside factors and and other factors is was there. Was there any? I mean you've you've hit upon the kind of the unifying thing, the overall thing, but was is it true that there were? Kind of any number of shapes and sizes or or whatever to these things.

Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely. And then so I I've worked with three, three different communities, mainly in different places around the Pacific Northwest. And then I come to Eugene every so often to talk with folks here as well. So it's less of a. You know the. Other places that I work are more kind of. Bounded land based intentional communities who are attempting to bring these things into into being in very concrete ways and then in Eugene, you know it's it's less of a kind of land based intentional community set up. But there are a lot of people who are thinking and acting along these lines who aren't. Yeah, they're not necessarily in the form of the community but they. But it's still really relevant stuff so. But yeah, so each of these communities and then folks I talk with in Eugene are very different to one another. And they're also, each of them are changing over time in response to a number of different factors. For many of them, you know, they're changing the ways in which they, well, actually just to. Take a step back. I think it will make it clear if I. Just named it. There are a couple of different lines that I'm following when I'm. When I'm working with these communities and talking with people, one is that I'm really interested in how people are materially living outside of agricultural colonial capitalism. So what is it to try to survive outside of the cash economy outside of technological society? So then I'm looking at how are people making things themselves? Or relying on their immediate environment. Or, you know, just acting in all different ways to try to exit the mainstream economy. But then the other strand that I'm looking at is how are people building different forms of what it is to live together, so different kinds of sociality is one way of putting it. So when we think about. Mass society. We can think about that. A really entrenched kind of hierarchical power system, right? That's one of the kind of like operational fundaments of of mass technological society. So then if people are trying to resist that and build an alternative world, there's a crucial piece which is the ways in which they relate to one another. You know, into the environment around them, so. So yeah, those are the those are the kind of like the two, the two strands that I'm looking at. And yeah, there's immense diversity in terms of how people, how people are trying to build new worlds both in the material sense and also in the in the. So in terms of social and ecological. Relationships and all of these things are changing all. The time on the basis of. You know how how? People are experimenting with different kinds of living with one another, you know? So how are they experimenting with different forms of decision making? Are people doing consensus or are they are they doing councils? Are they doing different things? And then also. How are people finding ways to get by? Physically and material. Really. And, and this has become a big one. I mean, you were mentioning the flooding in California earlier, one of the big obstacles that people are facing is these rapidly changing environments, you know, so that's making, that's pushing them to change the ways in which they're living all the time as well. So anyway, to to give a brief answer to your question. Yes, there's an immense diversity between the different projects that I've worked with and even between the different people living on the projects. And then even, you know, in my 2 years of more concentrated field work. Quick each of these places has changed in ways that I would not have anticipated. I mean, they've gone through really, really radical transformations, all of them in different ways. So yeah, it's quite a ride, you know, to to talk with people about what's happening.

Speaker 6: You've certainly taken a deep dive into all this. You know, fascinating stuff and and I think I've said this before that the people who do that are not the writers and most of us who write are not doing. They're not out there living it. You know, they're not trying to tackle the. The practical. Yeah, Speaking of radical. Options or divergences that you just return to kind of follow up on some of these. And that's. That's not the prettiest picture at this moment, right? Is that right?

Speaker 8: Right. Yeah. And I think you know I. Have to be careful. With how much? I say just because of, you know, confidentiality and just wanting to, you know, disclose things in ways that are responsible but. But I will say. You know, in very very general terms, and I mean this genuinely is a comment that goes beyond the communities that I've worked with living in community is really difficult for a lot of people. You know, many of us and by, you know, by us I'm talking about. Well, I don't know who exactly that I'm talking about. I guess I'm talking about people who are who are experimenting with living in these in. These land based intentional communities. Many of them were not. Raised in those ways, you know, many of the people they work with, they they grew up in the suburbs, you know, living a relatively. Middle class existence. Many of them identify as white settler descendant and so they come from these particular cultures that don't necessarily equip them with the particular skill set that's necessary for living in intentional communities, or at least this is the way the way that many people have. Put it to me is that it's a. It's a challenge, you know, to grow up in a culture, in a culture that derives from our society, you know, to grow up imbued with this kind of like with a sense that hierarchical power relations in some ways natural. And like, that's the myth that we are told, and so then to shift from that into trying to live in more egalitarian ways, it can be really challenging for people, which is a long way around saying, yeah, many communities really struggle to figure out power dynamics to figure out how to relate to the environment around them.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. I I would think that. Demographically, so to speak, that's we're not talking about the offspring of people in the 60s. That was a long way off a long time ago. So yes, I was thinking about that in terms of I have. You know, kind of a lot of. Friends grew up. In the 80s, how different that was. You know. We're getting heckled from the outside here. You know how how much you know? More hopeful and easier and open and. Promising even it was in the 60s. But not in the 80s. You know, my God. So that, that, that would be you'd have to carry that. You'd have to have that burden not have that wind at your back at all. You know. Man, it seems like. The head is the medical student, Max said. Kind of get away from it, but and then he is helping us see. Yeah, that's. That would be nice. But how do you pull that off?

Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I think you're right. You know, I think they've been these kind of zeitgeist through history of these sort of. I mean, I'm just thinking in the context of what's currently known as the United States, they've been these. Have almost boom and bust cycles where? Yeah, you know, in the 60s there was a huge wave of intentional communities all across the country and many of them didn't last beyond a decade or two, you know? And so then in the 80s, you do have. This kind of. The zeitgeist is is in. Its bust, you know, and. And it's really sobering for a lot of people. So I. I think now what we're seeing is people attempting these experiments, but they're well aware of or many of the people that I work with at least are well aware of the difficulties and the kind of not necessarily particularly optimistic prognosis, you know. And I think. You know, one of the other things that I think is really important to name is that. A lot of the people that I talk to are, you know, they self identify as settlers, their settler descendant. And so they're really struggling with what it is. To be attempting. To live in these ways on stolen, stolen indigenous land, you know that's and that's that's a really big and complex question and. Again, Speaking of internal diversity, people, people grapple with that question in all different ways. They find all different. Ways to reconcile that tension or to attempt to reconcile that tension.

Speaker 6: So there's an awareness of that.

Speaker 8: Ohh absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And it comes into it comes into play in things like. Property ownership. You know, what is it to own property? As a white settler descended person in the Pacific Northwest while having a critique of settler colonialism? You know, can how does one take a decolonial position and own property at the same time? It's it's tricky.

Speaker 6: Oh gosh. You know, I think maybe we. Should take a real quick music break. And then we'll be back with Fern.

Speaker 0: Our CD player.

Speaker 4: Went to sleep.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we've, we've got.

Speaker 8: Sorry, CD player.

Speaker 6: Boy Turner's racing by this is great.

Speaker 4: OK. Yeah. We have music from.

Speaker 6: Eve tumor Eve tumor my name. I love it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, from the fire breath. From the.

Speaker 3: We saw.

Speaker 2: Water from the fire reflects my spirit. Fire reflects my.

Speaker 6: Well, I'm glad that was brief.

Speaker 4: That art, music always kind of catches you by surprise.

Speaker 6: Oh man. Yeah, you. Start to slack off and then anyway, yeah.

Speaker 5: And I wanted.

Speaker 6: To just go into that a little more, if if you wouldn't mind and. What do you sense is the next, the next move or the next? Around this? Or is it is anybody's guess anything? I mean, it's it's hard times. And and at. Various levels for everybody. I think now that you know, I think we're just visibly seeing civilization coming down. And it's on all of us, you know, in different ways is that do you think they're any more protected from that maybe or or maybe even more vulnerable?

Speaker 8: That's such a good question. You know, I think I think part of the idea behind the project is to be deliberately more aware of the different symptoms of collapse and, you know, to try to achieve some kind of insulation from that at the same time, the people that I work with, they're. They're distinct from the prepper movement. You know, you could think about a prepper movement as responding to collapse in a in a particular way by building bunkers and making sure they're equipped. No, no, no. The people that I work with, they really start with relationships and solidarity, you know, so they're more interested in building mutual aid societies, for instance, as an infrastructure that guards against collapse as opposed to, you know, hoarding guns and ammunition. And cans of baked beans or whatever it may be, you know. So I I I I find that that aspect. Of the work really important. And then of course, you know, again at the more material level, there's certainly a lot of attention being paid to. Yeah, self-reliance in terms of food for instance. So people knowing what to eat from the environment around them, trying to grow as much as they can, trying to get off grid in terms of electricity, developing a skill set of. You know, at a really simple level, being able to repair their own stuff and and I mean, even the last couple of years with the pandemic, we've seen the interruption and supply chains that have forced people to acquire these kinds of skill sets, you know, so some of the folks that I work with. They've acquired these skill sets from the same prompts and through the same timeline, but some of them have been added a little longer, you know, and have seen kind of interruptions in the supply chain that are more subtle that predate the pandemic. So yeah, certainly there's a kind of a. And attention to preparing for collapse just in a different way to Prep is in way and in ways that I find really interesting, yeah.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah, that's good to hear. I wish we had. Two hours tonight and it keeps getting into even more on this.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it would be easy.

Speaker 6: Anyway, maybe I can? Giving us some other stuff. With your help. I was, you know. This the AI. Chat bot thing, especially the ChatGPT. I've been talking about it a little bit lately, and the sort of enormity of it. I mean, you might have to say it that way. You know how you can like? Artemis was talking about the standard turned in the ready made paper. You know, the manufactured paper, and he the kid told him. That's that. It wasn't his writing. And he turned in his own writing. So anyway. That, that whole, that whole mystery, you know, Nick Cave, I saw this Speaking of Australia.

Speaker 8: MM.

Speaker 6: Well, he was confronted with the the the command write a song in the style of Nick Cave. Yeah, he was not having it. He, you know, it's interesting piece replication is travesty. And it the particular quote from him. He found it a grotesque mockery of what it is to be human. Well, that's pretty well put on.

Speaker 8: That's a quote from Nick Cave.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. But it's trying to take over, I mean and. We're being prepared for that. We're being conditioned for that, for the dependency, the passivity and. All of the prosthetic ways you can. Continue to exist, but not be skilled or you know, have any particular capacities or. Passion or anything I. Mean it's. It's so scary to me, and sometimes I mentioned the the bad boy of French letters back. That's really what he's been writing about all along, from the elementary particles in the late 90s. There's no more juice. There's nothing. There's no more energy. There's no more nothing. Just this is it folks. And the characters are always. In that in the crosshairs of exactly that, their lives, their lives are meaningless. They've pursued any different way of being distracted and diverted, and only to come up with the. Astounding emptiness of society anyway. That's the latest. When the the the metaverse hasn't happened, but this is already happening, this is already there's a bunch of stuff written from people from the university side of things or high school or whatever, you know. Or even entertainment. You know, in this case or. It's pretty scary. And this is just today, this story about how how much money there is. Investors put at least 1.37 billion into generative AI companies. That's this kind of stuff. As much or almost as much as they have invested in the previous five years. So this is just booming this. Chat box, GPT or Dali or these other other things that are all. Enough for right now. You know, this is just to barreling down the. Information highway, so to speak. Yeah, it's coming on strong. And all the fails too. I mean it's it gives it take some solace with that. You know the different. The different on the airlines thing you know and and more airlines things the entire. Airline industry in this country two days ago was stopped. Just stopped. Because of some app or something? Middle of last week in the UK, the Royal Mail. I have a Royal Mail jacket, you know. Anyway can't ship packages or letters internationally. So much for the royal.

Speaker 8: Mail. You couldn't send anything. Internationally, huh? Is it a glitch?

Speaker 6: Uh, because of a cyber incident? Advising customers to hold any export items. Until it solves the issue and maybe this has been resolved by now, I I couldn't. I couldn't find the follow up on this but that happens every day. There's a there's a fail, there's a some kind of a glitch or you can go on and on. Yeah, this is the airlines thing. This that was Wednesday in the news and that's when it happened. A complete system outage. We have traced it to a corrupt file. Well, that you know a damaged database file. That's all it takes is to stop everything, because it's also interwoven and interdependent. I mean, that's the end of the economy. If you can't fly. I mean it's. That sort of stuff. And you know, I never tire of unveiling the green energy stuff. You know the. Warmer on the rare earth mining like molybdenum and so forth. It's a toxic process. Whatever it is, you know, lithium and so forth. Very toxic and the processing is even more toxic than the mining. And so this is the, this is the floor, this is the basis for this green, sustainable future, huh? No, it's just more ravaging of the natural world and it's intensifying, if anything. I can see why some people don't like to listen to radio because man, it's pretty horrifying, but. You know, it's also about time. Yeah, I love the fails. Like Spotify, no music. Sorry, folks. This was Friday evening. Twitter apps were down. Longer for a longer period than that. And they didn't answer. They didn't even say why or come up with any. You know what? What was that all about? Yeah, I love it. It's starting to come apart at the seams. Isn't a book driverless cars on a road to nowhere by Christian Walmart? I haven't seen the book, but I know one of the essential things and thank you Richard, for this. That part of it is. Congestion in the UK is expected to double in coming decades if driverless car is proved safe, that's kind of parenthetically, that hasn't been proven. But yeah, I I hadn't thought of that at all. You got old people who don't don't want to drive or can't drive or disabled people or any number. Of people who wouldn't be. And who's driving your car? But if? If the car drives itself supposedly. Do you have tons more cars? So how does that Drainer sustainable? I mean, every part of it is is. It's funny. And but liberals and others just want to eat all this. Up they'd rather. Not look at the reality. Tesla man could do an hour on Tesla. That that mechanic, what is the name of that show? He pointed out that not one single car that Tesla has rolled out has succeeded. They've all been a bust. They've all been recalled. And hence there's video footage here of a crash injuring nine people last month in California. Tesla blame for causing an 8 car pile up. On the Bay Bridge. Yeah, swerving around and abruptly breaking in the wrong lane and the. Yeah. Boy, I want to get one of those cars. Yeah, it's just crazy stuff. Well, this we are still here, 541-346-0645. We got 5 or 10 minutes, you know this failed space launch from the UK. They were going to their first satellite launch. It crashed. And one didn't hear about this until afterwards. But. Actually, last week the Irish government warned folks to stay out of the waters off the coast of counties. Cork and carry in case anything went wrong and it certainly did and crashed into the sea. Their first space launch. Funny thing that news came out only I don't know how they covered that up or why. Nobody covered that. By the way. Don't be offshore when this thing is going overhead. That's pretty cool. And the one other lovely technological promise you can go anywhere to work. You can be remote, you can just be home in your bathrobe and move somewhere where it's very nice and everything. Well, when you think about it, digital nomads, so to speak. Yeah, who can live or work anywhere. So what happens? To localism, when all these people just sort of willingly end up anywhere. That could be a problem, you know. What does that do to any stable community or? You know, it's historical solidarity or whatever, I mean. It might not be that cool. Is it is a nice thing that Mark sent me. This morning our friend Mark. About a new smartphone app dubbed Hippo Camera. It duplicates, it mimics the function of the. Hippocampus in the brain constricting and maintaining memories. That's basically it's the memory lobe of the brain, I guess. And as Mike pointed out, oh boy, more human machine interface. You know. Wonderful for memory. Oh. Let's see reliance on the machine is reliance on memory or? Or is it the opposite? And even wonder what that even means, you know. It it's supposedly significantly improves memory recall. I mean, I don't get it. I mean, I don't, I don't even quite understand the the premise. Oh man. Well, reporting to us put it on you. And you're a. You're an old radio hand. That's that's lovely. You you've you've had experience of radio. I think it shows and. Very lovely to have you here.

Speaker 8: Well, thank you for your questions and for your openness. It's really. Yeah, it's really a pleasure to have a conversation with you. And yeah, I'm. I'm a really big believer in radio. You know, I think that it's not only, I mean, Speaking of localism, I think there's a kind of a localism to radio, but there's also there's something to do with. The fact that. Radio is a thing. I mean, not so much anymore, because you can listen to radio shows at any at any time. But at its base, radio is a thing that different people tune into all at the same time. So there's a kind of a a coming together in time and in space that I think is represented by radio, that I really, really appreciate. So yeah, I. I'm a big fan of radio as a medium. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so, I mean, thank you for having me. It's really, it's really a pleasure to be here. Yeah. Been listening to the show for a long time.

Speaker 6: Ohh nice. I hope we can do it again when you're back in. The summer, right?

Speaker 8: I'd love to. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 6: Maybe another Sam bonds thing. Yeah, I'm really years. I mean, Carl and I have. Been doing this, Carl longer than I have, I think even in the. Yeah, it's. And that's that's evolving all the time too. But uh.

Speaker 8: You'll have to do it. It'd be interesting one time to do a show about this show, you know, kind of a show about the show. Yeah, kind of a retrospective, you know, like, how has this changed over the years and what are the big stories that you've?

Speaker 4: I show about the matter.

Speaker 8: Seen and what?

Speaker 4: You have you have archives going back from.

Speaker 8: Are the calls that you remember?

Speaker 4: For years.

Speaker 6: Final ways I was trying to think. Of when that started.

Speaker 4: Achieved some you've achieved. Some notoriety with some of your phone calls.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: See, this would be really fun stories to retell on air. I think I'd love to hear.

Speaker 6: Them about the. Story the one I recalled and she said.

Speaker 4: Which one is?

Speaker 6: Have you ever considered putting your? DNA in the water supply. And I I think I said, you mean putting LSD in the water supply make it strong is like, what are you talking about? And she said, no, your DNA and.

Speaker 0: Remember that.

Speaker 6: Wow, I was. Just baffled. Remember that one it was.

Speaker 4: And I don't remember that no.

Speaker 6: It was a quickie because. Thank you for your call.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: And didn't know what to say, OK.

Speaker 6: That was the most far out one, I think.

Speaker 8: It's intriguing.

Speaker 6: That would be fun though. That would be real fun to go. Down memory lane when we were on right after. Asian Wave Sunday night late Sunday night.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Uh-huh. I remember the first time I met you. There was a a bomb threat. You remember that you were giving a talk on the university. We went out to dinner at at the Glenwood.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: And because I knew the person who who had arranged for you to come there and she had the money.

Speaker 6: Right. Oh yeah, that was. Earlier on.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it was and.

Speaker 8: Wait, but then there was. A bomb.

Speaker 4: There was a bomb threat. Yeah. During during your talk. With everybody outside.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that was here on campus, yeah.

Speaker 8: That's real.

Speaker 5: Well, thanks for listening. We got a.

Speaker 6: Little bit of. System of a down to go out that famous Armenian band.

Speaker 0: Yep, OK.

Speaker 6: Thanks again for.

Speaker 8: Thanks for having me, John.

Speaker 2: Version seven point.

Speaker 9: King of life through the eyes of a tire.

Speaker 10: Is the best time to touch this city ever city.

Speaker 3: In the world. Now, somewhere between the Shakers, silence, silence and sleep. Between the sacred scientists disorder disorder, disorder.

Speaker 9: For this fighters, the neighbors flashlight reveries, cutting the headlights of the truck.

Speaker 10: Toxicity city.

Speaker 3: Now, somewhere between us secret, silent, secret silence and sleep between the sacred.

Speaker 7: In the wake of the disaster, what one thing can you send that will help people? The. Most a blanket. A tent, a sandbag? A doctor? Actually, if you send.

Speaker 4: A monetary donation, you.

01-10-2023

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. California drowning, homelessness crisis. Electric substations attacked. 988 suicide line very busy, expanding. AI robots moving in, seek consciousness. New tech at CES e.g. e-skates, high tech toilet! Invasive, dis-abling 'progress.' UK space program flop, recalls. Microsoft embraces unionism. One call.

Speaker 1: Hey, this is the alien from ministry and you're listening to KWVA Eugene. Hey, this is Roxy of the epoxies. And your turn to KKWVA, Eugene.

Speaker 2: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at.

Speaker 3: Large. That's right. You're listening to KWVA. Eugene. It is 7:00. It's time for anarchy. Radio. I'm in the studio with John and Catherine and the number is 541-346-0645. We are going to. To get set of input our headphones on, get our microphones set up and be with you in just a moment. Here's some music from an architects.

Speaker 4: That gets my head once again. The What's the win in the West rules? And I guess that's. But he's on the ranch. I guess I guess it's just as. Well, could never fail. You hold your just forget the past.

Speaker 5: I used to be young.

Speaker 4: And ruthless, heartless, hopeless. Mindless, ruthless, useless, toothless, nothingness, truthless. You know, just what I was was like. Just what I want. You guys know what a good reminder? Where cars these days. To stay that way. I guess I guess it's just as well. Yes, I could never really tell.

Speaker 2: Hello. Hello. It's anarchy radio for December 10th or I think it's January 10th actually. When the double digits 20/20. Thank you. I would just move that up to Catherine is here from Portland there. Yeah, yeah. Same here. Well, we got to get organized because 2023 lies before us, full of promise and wonder.

Speaker 1: No doubt, no doubt what to expect.

Speaker 2: There you go. I don't know where we're going with this tonight, but this jumped out. About Finland, Finland is it ranks as the world's happiest country. And who knows how they figured that out. But anyway, that's been the but instead, according to the Helsinki Times. Things are gloomy, even bitter people who have no empathy. They're unfeeling, they hate each other. So. Would help his country. At least half of all fences take antidepressants. So, boy, that kind of rains on that parade.

Speaker 1: These happiest countries are kind of getting old as a as a topic happiness, not, not really In Sync with the times.

Speaker 2: One of those happy, happy places and and then. The Internet came and everything else came, and now it's now. It's a wasteland like everyplace else you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And and it, I mean it also just Harkins back to who is to be believed, you know like here, here's another thing we've measured and we'll tell you who's the happiest and why they're the happiest. And then out of the other side of them. And also we're going to talk about how many people have killed themselves this last week.

Speaker 2: I know. I know people who can't listen to anarchy radio. Because it's too. Full of gloom. And despair and the the latest horror is by the hour, but. You know, sometimes people say this happened last week. I don't. I can't think of who it was, but they said and they came. Radio was the shining light. I didn't know what to do about it. It's so. Wonderful. I'm paraphrasing, but something.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 1: No, no. It's like it's like the whole happiness thing. You know, it's like this illusion, this talk about heaven is one side, you know, one side of the is the glass half full is the glass half empty. And it doesn't. It doesn't deal with the real physical universe and the sensory place. That we're living and being present in right now and it's these abstract concepts, measurements and happiness. Happiness, you know, which is OK, happiness or suffering is sort of like the life death equation. Like they're binaries rather than it's all part of the same thing.

Speaker 2: I think it's better to just stick with the data you know, ***** ** your Fitbit, and then you'll know that you're breathing and so forth. I mean that. That's really alarming this, this CCES or no they. I think they just called CE, just wound up in Las Vegas consumer electronics, they roll out all of the new E gadgets and so forth and some of them are just just unbelievable, including a sort of a Fitbit thing for your pets.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, because they're not in touch with their bodies, either. Of course. They're just animals.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure for sure. That was I had something on the the show in Las Vegas. Cool, crazy and cute tech we found at Las Las Vegas CES. So that's what you're referring to, a laptop charging stationary bike desk, you know, just integrate your whole world. A self-driving lawn mower, a home urinalysis scanner? That's that was a real good one.

Speaker 2: Very much needed these things.

Speaker 1: Very much indeed. A kind of spendy, I would say, let's. See about $530. But it really it won't confuse you with your partner or your roommate. It really catches your own stream and what your stream says about you. Just on and on the gadgets.

Speaker 2: Yeah, electric skates. That was a new thing. No unpleasant exertion, right. You just ***** ** the battery pack and the. It's effortless. You can you can be inert even when you're skating. In VR gaming systems, gaming systems in themselves are VR, but it's another dimension of of being remote. I guess that's a big here's my favorite though the new Me 2.0. Did you hear about the new? It's a smart toilet. It has a motion activated lid and can clean and dry your bottom. Via built-in bidet plus lights and music for the bathroom.

Speaker 1: Wow, put that with your your analysis test in there. You got. Yeah, live. I would live in the bathroom. You know, it's so complete. Well, you know that that's like the one I was referring to was from the Wall Street Journal's. It takes up a whole page.

Speaker 2: It's the total thing.

Speaker 1: Page on these cute gadgets and it's very, you know, light hearted. We can joke about it, this and that on a Backpage Beijing takes on challenges of regulating deep flakes and this was real sobering. Maybe I'm behind the times but deep synthesis technology. Including AI powered image, audio and text generation software, Beijing is going to try and monitor it or something. But but this is. Open AI and Lenza, an automated maker of personalized digital avatars, pose new challenges for their potential to generate more deceptive media that could fuel misinformation and cast doubt on the veracity of virtually anything in the digital realm. Rules aimed at governing the logarithms that underpin the rules's most powerful Internet platforms deep, deep fakes emerged after the creation of an open source algorithm in 2014, capable of producing hyper realistic images. They look like photographs of people and objects that don't exist. The invention sparked a wave of research in powerful image synthesis software, as well as new abuses. Et cetera, et cetera. Anyway. Anyway, the the seriousness of of creating you know it's a virtual reality that becomes reality. And and in terms of centralization in terms of like, wow, no autonomy, no nothing. To me, that's just mind boggling the. The deep fake. The whole the whole secretive nature of what's very pressing right now, that we're pretty much oblivious to and creating every time we handle this technology and input and data into it, how many seconds we spend pushing the button on an iPhone or whatever it's like we create, we've created this monster. That that we're oblivious of and have absolutely no control over.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Boneyard was president in this thinking about. There, there are only copies. There's no, there's no original. It's all just lost. It's all untethered. He didn't tune into the technology part of it enough, but he kind of intuited a lot of that. I think that it gets even more detached from actual. What do you call that quaintly called reality? You know what? What's really, what's reality if you? If you don't have that connection at all, if you don't have a reference point. And you know the fake, the fakery just keeps deepening, apparently.

Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think there's definitely relationship to the end of Western civilization. You know that that this is the substitution or the the, you know, the the man behind the curtain, this creation of a completely false world.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and. Seemingly it's harder and harder to get away from it and. At the Verge today, there was a piece about very approvingly that. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. This is the UK Government Department. On January 6th last Friday, it was announced that new homes constructed in England must be fitted with infrastructure and connections required to achieve GB, GB, gigabits or Gigabit Internet connectivity. Then she'll escape, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1: So it's it's a regulation to to put those. In the infrastructure? Sure, sure.

Speaker 2: Nothing will be. Built unless it's, you know, you're tuned in. I mean it doesn't. It doesn't exactly mean that you have to be connected, but. There it is. It's built in. It's inescapable. And it's kind of bizarre. And the the writer says my years long battle to get Gigabit Internet installed may soon be over thanks to new rules introduced by the UK government.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. The round of applause for the UK Government for supplying us with this what we can't live without.

Speaker 2: Yeah, more enslaved.

Speaker 1: If we once continue to live this way and destroy the planet. As we do.

Speaker 2: You know it's getting worse. And then there's been. Just a ton of this. ChatGPT. You know that can write your term paper or write a TV show, or do anything pretty much. Speaking of that, in fact the caller was saying one of his students, he's a high school teacher and and. Can turned into a report of some kind. And told him it was done by the machine and then he turned in his own copy. He was not trying to. Fool the teacher, but. Anyway, so now they're talking about cheating in the New York Citys Department of Education. Announced a ban. On this popular chat bot thing ChatGPT. Because I'm worried about cheating. But again, you know regulation that's always the non answer. I mean what, what part of the technology gets stopped? None of it. You know, they can try. To put on these sort of cosmetic regulations and reading one's hands about negative impacts on student learning. But it goes on and you know, there's been these stories mainly just in the past year, about cheating at chess and the top level chess masters go to the John and and quickly, I mean, the answer might not be the best answer, but they're cheating. They're they're just running these programs and. Then they come back and make their move and it's. And how do you stop that? You know, they nobody likes it, I guess. Except the cheaters who get away with it. But you know, it sort of pulls down the whole idea of. Of competitive chess, if you know, but it's just that's just an example.

Speaker 1: That goes with what I was talking about earlier. The deep synthesis technologies that GPT are two of the ones they they go into. All different mediums. Mountains of data used to train new, newer generation AI software. Trillions of words and images scraped from the Internet. So you know, just create uses the input every time you're using those technologies. It uses, it, amasses them and creates. You know, it'll write your essay, it'll it'll make your life. It'll make your life and your death.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you're less capable and. And just this past week, the International Conference on Machine Learning, which is the. Some kind of? They're they're more or less the. The group that rules over this stuff, or perhaps makes rules anyway. It has banned the use of ChatGPT and what usually is referred to as machine learning AI language. Stuff put. It's a ban on writing academic papers. You can't do a journal article. From having the machine do it, but once again that's meaningless. It's it's they're making this distinction. You can do that. You can use it to edit or Polish a text, but you can't really. I have the whole thing done by the machine. And this raises the question, where do you draw the? Line between editing and writing. In other words, you can pass all the rules you want, it's that doesn't. It doesn't even begin to, you know, raise the questions that you just raised, I mean. That that's this morning. Listen.

Speaker 1: How how can you even decipher where you know you have the you have the text in front of you. You have the report. You have the the broadcast coming into your ear and and who's to say that that's not human generated? Who? Who's to say?

Speaker 2: And the caller raised the question Allied question. Who's to say? Doesn't that sort of introduce a doubt about the whole symbolic thing itself? If if the machine can do it, I mean, where is the? You know what's the real substance? What's the real validity or actuality of it in the 1st place, you're just trading symbols back and forth as we do when we communicate in language and and all the rest of it. But I thought that was a very provocative further question. Yeah. So the machine here and like the high school teacher, he didn't know the difference, he said good paper and and we're talking about high school kid, but still.

Speaker 1: Right. But the he comes back, back to, I mean, what occurs to me is the Luddite club in Prospect Park in New York City and the group of kids who are sitting there chanting together, that's the difference. You know, that's the difference. That's the life. That's the that's the only escape.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the real thing, the.

Speaker 1: Muddied the leader club.

Speaker 2: Self to self. I mean, it's not all going. All that well, I mean we're. In today's New York Times, by the way. It was all about robot consciousness. Yeah, this is just Tuesday. Today. Can robots know that they're robots? In other words, self consciousness. Are you aware that you are? Somebody who's speaking. I mean that's that's the. That's how fast it's getting pretty scary. I mean, that's. That isn't very much on offer, but the very question is is a little bit horrifying. You know? Yeah, getting my papers. OK well.

Speaker 1: Horrifying. And then I'll put in an example from the local news in Portland last week, where a schizophrenic man on public transportation attacked an elderly man, ripped off his ear and half his face because he thought he was a robot. And that that I mean that. Like that's. That was the little story last week with there's just such a a severing of human consciousness and you know, it's called schizophrenia, but.

Speaker 2: But the.

Speaker 1: Are you? A robot.

Speaker 2: Well then. If if most people don't care. You can do a paper as good as any sort of living human or. Or do any other thing like teach a class or something? That's the distinction fades away, you know, in general. By the way, I I think I just saw this yesterday. England is opening its first new coal mine in 30 years. And they point out. It's needed to make steel needed to make steel for wind turbines, electric vehicles. It's all green, you know, it's all wonderful. It it's supposed to remember where it comes from. Most basically the the mines. Oh, I should say this. I have to say this before 541-346-0645. Anybody want to call us?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Come on, call in. Give us your take on these wonderful new technologies. Well, well, I want. I want to go low tech to basically a little leaflet that came my way that. During the holidays. Random people were handing out a little packet that had seeds that if you were a hiking group or something, it was you could disperse in burned out areas in the Oregon Forest and all they had this leaflet on called bringing it to the people. That was part of this gift that was that was being handed out. Interesting, interesting. Kind of decentralized group. Low tap below just, you know, people, the people kind of thing. Talks about well, the the front page talks about getting it to the peoples is dedicated to the life, work and memory of Gandhi. Mat Azadari born into the Nevada nomadic Kashkari tribe. FAO was one of the many indigenous peoples of Iran. She was a PhD student and she spent her life fighting for indigenous voices in conservation and science. She became an ancestor in 2020. And then it it has information research Persian culture for dawki the shahnama, the Rosetta Stone, the Pakistani inscription. Anyway, it's just this whole whole different world that that pretty much is unfamiliar with and that, like I said, I went. I had a brief visit to Morocco last year and I said I. Say in a kind of shortcut way, a kinder and gender Islam, gentler Islam and. Just just an awareness that that there's there's more of a scope than what we see in this Western in this, in this world of the media we're exposed to and who are the indigenous peoples and go ahead, we have a call I think.

Speaker 3: Yeah, we do. We have Gray on the phone.

Speaker 2: Great. Hello, Kate.

Speaker 6: Hey, John. It's been been a minute.

Speaker 2: It is, it is. It's just what I was. Thinking how are you doing?

Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not right. Like Catherine? Yeah. They've been out of touch for so long. But, you know, things happened.

Speaker 2: What's going on?

Speaker 6: So, do you know John, everybody needs a GB connection, right?

Speaker 2: Yes, we do 100 Gigabit I suppose.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So you may have covered this, I'm not sure, but there's been a spate of. People shooting out power stations. Back East, there was one that put people in. The dark for quite a spell.

Speaker 2: Yeah, in Washington state too.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And then there's been some more locally here too. So I just kind of wanted to see what your feelings were on that.

Speaker 2: Wait, I don't know. There there's. Been all kinds of. You know one one thing that's in the air is the very far right, far right freaks getting crazy about drag shows. And coincidentally, I mean it. What does that have to do with power stations? I mean, I'm not. Sure about that. But I don't know, maybe that's a possible. Answer to that it sort of happened at the same time that bursts of hatred against people having a drag show in various parts of the. Country now we. I mean, I don't. Know what do you what do you think?

Speaker 6: I think they were trying to put the lights out on a drag show.

Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe in a general sense or just to, you know, the passionate. Irrational thing? I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 6: They never caught, they never caught anybody for these attacks as far as. I know. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: No, I think I think not. And they pointed out that people, these people know something they they know. Their way around. A power substation and how to disable it.

Speaker 6: Right. Just like you're taking taking pot shots at.

Speaker 2: And the use of weapons.

Speaker 6: A transformer or something is more than that.

Speaker 2: I suppose. Do you have any theory?

Speaker 6: I don't know. I mean, I've I've heard the the media speculate that it had something to do with with far right wing extremism. But I don't I I. Haven't heard any sort of. Definitive explanation for any of this. But mean the correct action.

Speaker 2: I I one thing that made me think of, I don't think this is the connection. Frankly, but. Of how many years ago was it? Deep green resistance came out and they they advocated. Hitting the power power infrastructure kind of stuff like that, power stations, bridges and so forth, they never did anything of the kind and it's it's more than silly to to talk that when you certainly not going to do it, but anyway. Whether that's true or not, I don't think it's that. I don't think it's people trying to stop industrial civilization somehow. No, maybe it is.

Speaker 1: I I mean, I would, I would tend to agree with John that I don't. I don't see a a clear association with. Some kind of direct action that would be well thought out to to end civilization by by cataclysmic random. Shutting, you know potshots at power stations? I I think the cataclysms and disasters that we're witnessing are pretty much the result of the civilization that we're living under and its decline. And and. How one sees contributing to that is helping to bring it down requires some pretty deep analysis and understanding. And I think I think that the media saying, well, right wing or or a drag show association and all has as much sense or even more, you know, I mean, you're seeing you, you're seeing a lot in in this 21st century. You're seeing a lot of the detournement of activities that the left. Was involved in and advocated better, now being assumed and taken on by the right and that whole.

Speaker 6: Like the Weather Underground. Back in the day, I.

Speaker 1: I I I mean I I would think, I mean I I would tend to make a distinction having lived through an era and and and being a part of a time.

Speaker 6: For us, yes.

Speaker 1: Attempting to. To change the direction of a a death oriented society, the of which the Weather Underground pros and cons and whatever we're involved in. I I guess I'm. I'm confused by what what how you were associating it with. The Weather Underground.

Speaker 6: Well, I may have misinterpreted what you just said, Catherine, but I mean, I've long felt that the continuum of resistance. The far the the really radical libertarian folks and anarcho primitivism. There's going to be a like an A Venn diagram. There's going to be a place where those overlap in certain areas. And I think that's a very interesting and and and fertile area. Of for exploration in terms of. Direct action and and because I mean, I don't think everything's just going to going to. Peacefully come to some sort of. Utopian conclusion. There's going to be some think bad things are going to happen are coming and and I believe.

Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean, wouldn't you say bad things are happening?

Speaker 6: Bad things are definitely happening, and I think people are finally beginning to realize that it's not something that's going to happen in the future. It's happening now. But the the for the power to go out and stay out. In this country and in the of the industrialized world, if it were to stay out for an entire winter. It would be a major. It would be a reset of society. And this seems like I don't know if people were trying to show us that or or what the deal was, but it it it seemed like more than just vandalism to me.

Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean I I guess I would say the the idea that it would be that it would cause a reset of the society, you talk about the industrialized world and and would it cause a reset? And there's there's a hell of a lot. As the world remaining that is not electrified.

Speaker 6: That's that's absolutely true. And they will, they will be the ones who. Will be least. Affected by it and stronger in the end.

Speaker 1: And they are the ones who are currently engaged, who are. Where? Where you where? I seem to see the resistance is coming from and where the reset is happening and exists.

Speaker 5: I hope so.

Speaker 6: I absolutely hope that that is true.

Speaker 2: We're probably going to see a lot of surprising, unprecedented things. Because I don't know it's. It seems like there's a lot of unpredictable things or unaccounted for things. As in way just in part of the general breakdown, but possibly also some. Some avenues that are hopeful. We don't know about this power station station stuff, but. Maybe they'll be openings. That we haven't thought about yet. Anyway, thank you, Gray. It's good to be back with you.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm not. Advocating or insinuating that you would ever advocate such action, but it is interesting to me. But yeah, good to talk. To you, John and Captain and Carl. Hey, thanks for the call. OK, you too. Bye.

Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a little break. We get some hose could do.

Speaker 3: Yeah, we do.

Speaker 4: Easily amused him.

Speaker 5: Easily amazed.

Speaker 4: Don't you do something different?

Speaker 0: Got your letter?

Speaker 5: What's your favorite situation? Have you got?

Speaker 4: Little breath. You wanna do that project?

Speaker 5: Easily abused by you.

Speaker 4: Daddy's living.

Speaker 5: But you do something different. Even big fish. Got your letter invitation.

Speaker 2: The lovely tones of Husker Doo. Back in the early 80s, forty years ago, my gosh. Wow. Well, you know not. All of the tech stuff is working out so well. The big fail of the week I would say was the UK space program. Their first attempt to put satellites up into orbit. It crashed and burned yesterday. The US based. Virgin Orbit is doing the job over there, or failing at the job over there. 9 satellites. Didn't make it a cursor of thousands of. We need nine more. After all, there's so many thousands and thousands now they're starting to crash in a Russian one coming down. A good sized one and. We're waiting. The where it's going to hit, I think that's I just heard that the.

Speaker 1: Day or two ago, one came down the other day from the challenge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just dropping from the sky. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Speaker 2: And the cars are falling. 2 BMW recalls 14,000 different. Types of EVA's for fully battery software. The EV's are at risk of power loss because of a malfunctioning. Electronic control. It's it's so often a software thing, and of course it's the batteries to the the famous. Lithium ones that tend to burst into flames. Fairly routinely. You got to keep doing the same old stuff. This is this is a classic. Everybody on the planet knows this. If you expand freeways, if you add lanes, you're going to have more traffic. I mean, who wouldn't know that? It's it's been common knowledge for decades. Front page story, Saturday in the New York Times. Big long piece. More lanes meant to cut traffic, make it worse. More technology, you know, it's just the same old story.

Speaker 1: Profound, profound. Same old story. OK, let's go to the American Academy of Pediatrics advocating that we get more aggressive in treating obesity in children and recommending pharmaceuticals and surgery to. To treat. To treat this epidemic of obesity in children and it it just goes back to the the same kind of binaries we're talking about, rather than rather than looking about the the food. The agricultural system of food production, that's a global green revolution based based on fixing nitrogen, creating byproducts of ammonia. And and the diets that are created and the the the obesity that results. But but just to disconnect and just the continue down the same hopeless path of go for pharmaceuticals and go for surgery to solve this problem. For those with. The money to. To to to engage in those deformations of what's life and what's living and what's being a kid and eating food that.

Speaker 2: About going outside that that doesn't happen anymore. Kids go outside when they have to, but it can distract from staring at the screen. So who needs it?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Who needs it? We got drugs.

Speaker 2: And you, you don't. And and the interaction. There's a piece about Alexa. Pretty nauseating 1. I think the headline was something about. Alexa, part of the family loved and hated. It's already anthropomorphized the. The robot voice, Alexa. Yeah. And they they had a bunch of different reactions. Only one was totally negative that they ran. No to Alexa. It invades what little privacy I have left. I still have the use of my fingers and limbs. This is where Alexa turns on the oven or turns out the lights or anything that you know. Even partially able person could do, but we're not supposed to do anymore. Only one person just no thanks.

Speaker 1: You just. You just. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you sit in the room and you say, Alexa, would you? And then Alexa will.

Speaker 2: But it is part of the family.

Speaker 1: You know, and this is this. Is modern. This is modern life for. Some of us privileged American so-called, you know, like this, this distortion, this part of the family. You know what? What, what is family? What is any? What is common language? What is common values? What is human connection?

Speaker 2: Yeah, creeping along and and all of its forms. Kashmir Hill wrote. Your face belongs to us. It sounds like a really gripping that's a true story, actually. About the rise of a technological superpower, this is about facial recognition. Speaking of the end of privacy. The secretive company that might, in privacy as we know it. She's seeing it as almost the last. Frontier, or the complete elimination of privacy. That sounds like a pretty good piece. Yeah, there's and there there's token opposition to that, but you can also. Or you can always hide behind the thing. Well, this is how you get the bad guys. You got to get the bad guys while you're while you're trapped in the exposed and surveilled everything and. Well, that's part of the whole totality of of surveillance. The smart thing itself is, as you point out.

Speaker 1: We are the bad guys.

Speaker 2: It has been six months now since 988. Was rolled out. The new emergency line. Makes it easy. It was a big 7 digit phone number. Suicide line emergency. Crisis line long as the calls and texts that putting in different languages now. And focusing on. Targeted groups, more vulnerable groups. Even sadder is the fact that it's it's all we're all the targeted group and we're all subject to the. This kind of threat, the context of of all of it, you know, the suicide rates and. Opioid deaths and so forth, but. If it makes it easier to just easily pick up the phone and you know they're there are two hundred of these centers now. Then operate the 988 thing and. You know, it's like it's it's part of a. Effort to do something.

Speaker 1: Part of an effort part, you know, like you don't don't look at the cause or or. Don't look at the car. It's like, well, certainly, I'll have my smartphone there and I can just dial 988 and that's the solution rather than. You know. Hey, Mom, talk to me here. I need to talk to you or friend. You know, kind of thing. It's just technological solution. Just add add something else.

Speaker 2: And the counseling involved, I mean, I I salute people who try to they must be tough. There must be a lot of burnout when you're dealing with people at the end of their string and. But when I just have this feeling, there's some things that are probably not encouraged to bring up, you know, I mean, I don't. I'm not saying you should go into some impersonal. Theory, Rand or something. When somebody's about to jump off the bridge? Of course not. But you. But you know there's there is there is a. Certain ban on the. Looking at the larger picture. Which can be helpful to people. When they realize it isn't just them. It is them, but it's also a larger crisis. Of the of the dominant system. You know the work thing. I think it's kind of possibly hopeful. The questioning in the Sunday. New York Times two days ago there was a. Kind of, but. The article wasn't too bad. It had an innocuous title. Yes, your job is important, but not all important. That's kind of weak, but it's. I don't know, it's not so bad, but. Actually, the punch line in the article. That, you know, just the, the, the biggest tragedy in your life is if you spend it in meaningless thing, you know, meaningless toil. You're just supposed to show up and. And accept that that's when you got to have a paycheck and you know the various ways that were coerced into. Meaningless toil, and certainly. Less privileged to have less choice in the matter of the. If you want to be in a minor, starve to death, that's a little bit of a stark choice there, but because they're talking about, I mean, the people that read the New York Times in general, it's a question of do you have some agency do you want to? See some agency over your life in terms of work and what's valid and what's authentic and what. And maybe at the end of your life. And that wasn't bad. That was worth doing.

Speaker 1: Well, let me let me put on that just to acknowledge there's 7000 nurses on strike in New York City. Basically, it's a contract negotiation breakdown strikes about hourly wage as well as safe staffing issue and.

Speaker 2: We're not.

Speaker 1: Just just some images you see of these nurses. You see a lot of happy young women yelling and and putting up a fuss against against the A system that has reduced them to meaningless toilers or, or is constantly trying to crush them into that. It reminds me of of the strike I was involved in at Cook County Hospital in 1976. The the Union representing the nurses is not like old time. And it's like this, the nurses Association, which is a story in itself, but it's not the old well established union as part and parcel of the system and and negotiating away their their kind of incompetent. And exploiters of their bargaining units, for sure. But but within that framework, the the strikes that I've seen, women and nurses engaged in on that have just been mind boggling joyful occasions. Of a a step away from or a step resulting from not feeling that you've devoted your life to meaningless toil, but actually there's something guiding your life in the labor that you're putting into it. That's above and beyond the so-called meaningless toil. And so. Right on to the nurses in New York City. Good luck.

Speaker 2: You know something about the Union aspect of this? From your own experience and not just that, but there was an announcement yesterday from Microsoft that they're all down with unions. And I remember from past history, mainly the Communication Workers of America, they represented. Telephone operators, for one thing. In the past kind of thing, but one of the phonier ones. You know, they have these phony strikes and come up with and win nothing, you know, routinely, that's. So I mean you. Know there are different forms of workers organization and. You know, some unions are more corrupt and do nothing than others, and some are more militant than others. And of course, but I mean. Pretty interesting. Microsoft joins hands with unionism, so he had it. I mean, you can rejoice as a wave of unionization near baristas and so forth. Tech workers. And there's there's something there, there's some energy resistance, but. You know, look, be mindful of what you're. Might not be so grateful for what you wanted it in the form that you've chosen. You have more choices than that and. And I'm not saying it's always just an easy free choice in a vacuum. But. Sometimes you can make a bargain that it's not such a bargain.

Speaker 1: And there's a history there that. Before you go into it, look into it. I would say the the Cook County nurses strike. The majority of it took place when the the bargaining unit representative, the Nurses Association disavowed US and we were autonomous. We were self organized and that was you. Go back to things like Detroit Revolutionary Union movement and the all the. Independent Wildcat strikes and all that took place in labor in the 60s, seventies. They were independent of that rotten structure of contract unionism which was developed part and parcel hand in hand with with corporate bosses to discipline the workforce and and so when you start deciphering out. Going with going with. The the the core you know the core like of why the nurses are out there and why they're smiling, why they're happy to be fighting against this horrible system that sucked out all all their energy, all their values and all. And they're concerned for people that it's like. You know, in terms in terms of women, there's just been a lot of independent. Energy and. Positive value organization librarians and things like that which are are are, are. Part of a struggle in the resistance that's not acknowledged and is repressed. And I would, I would venture further to say that in Iran and in the Middle East to certain you're starting to see. And if you look for it there, there is. Hell of a lot going on.

Speaker 2: Right, right. Excellent point.

Speaker 1: Happy 2023.

Speaker 2: Yeah, let's. Let's see more of that. God, there's so much grim stuff and. Yeah, sometimes I try to evade it too, but, well, I'm mentioning this before. How the story from California. LA Times yesterday or Saturday, I think it was. In California ordinary. People carry Narcan to prevent fatal overdoses. I don't suppose it's only California, but. Yeah, because people are dropping dead and it's the scourge of fentanyl and now. It's as you pointed out, very easy to administer. It's just, you know, it's just a popper kind of thing. You put in their nose and. And they sniff it up and might revive them. But the other story the following day. Mix of animal sedative brings fresh horror to St. drugs. Is used to cut fentanyl and heroin. It kills the tissues. It sort of like this flesh eating bacteria almost. It's not exactly that like that, but amputations and horrible. Not only deaths, but people who survive or pretty much. Ranked, I guess very commonly by that. Desperate people, they don't care what's. In it, they don't know what's in it.

Speaker 1: But those are the growth industries of of present day America or the the the the drug induced the whole. The whole escaped from the reality. The nightmare that you're living in. Temporary escape that costs you your life and the the fentanyl epidemic, the.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, if I was on the streets, if I was homeless and had nothing, I'd be doing drugs almost for certain. I want to get away from that reality. You know, I would try to be somewhat careful, I guess, but not really. I mean you that's where that's that's all you got. It's not the way to look. At it, but you can. You know that's trying to imagine not not having the stuff that we have and being out there in the cold and.

Speaker 1: Well, well, yeah.

Speaker 2: You don't want to get high, you want. To get away from it.

Speaker 1: To to a certain extent. True, another side of on the street in a book, rough sleepers on the streets of Boston talks, talks about houseless iness and. Different programs. This one's a young Doctor Who basically he carried a pint bottle of whiskey that he offers. Patients to assuage the symptoms of their alcohol withdrawal. You can't do that. Now, hand out cash on the street knowing a few dollars might finance some needed nutrition for one of his charges there. There's a real fine line. Like, if you look at migration and you look at immigration. When you look at the growth of basically migratory communities on the streets of America and the streets. Of modern cities that that there is community and there is this, this book talks about the whole thing of curing homelessness. Dr. O'Connell once believed that housing the homeless solved the problem after finding half a dozen. Corpses of the formerly homeless in newly occupied apartments. He and his assistant coined the phrase death by housing. So so there's like, you know, all these things that were given like pap by the media, what's the answer and what's needed obscure any imagination or creative look. At at at. At what? What is going on? What what's, what's a deeper sense of the? Of the problem and. And so, so so drugs on the street, certainly in this is in desperation and all drugs and suicides and overdoses and deaths, I'd say like, yeah, when you and I were talking about I said it would be good. Everybody should carry Narcan. You know you can it's only a temporary. Solution. It's only temporary and it's a a land. You know, humanitarian gesture. Perhaps you could say. But but how? How people get on the streets and be on the streets, the runaways, the homeless kids or whatever, the communities they create, the families they create, the refusal of a sedentary. Vacuous life and the deeper, deeper, anyway, where our time is going to run out.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's at. The heart of it. Yeah, we're we're going to sign off. Thank you for doing the.

Speaker 1: Show I love doing it. Would I say how many years have we done? 1716. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: That's right. Awesome. Thanks for listening. I've got something to read next week. I haven't been writing much lately, but yeah, it'll just be me and Carl, but trying to stay well out there. Goodnight.

Speaker 0: Most of these.

Speaker 1: Yourself really.

01-03-2023

[audio]

"As 2023 lies before us is there anything that isn't disfunctional in society? More blight, erratic weather, shootings. Southwest Airlines failure, the EV hoax. Many high tech glitches, outages. Wm. Shatner: this earth is all we have. Screen time ruins kids, social media fizzles. "How to Use Your Smartphone to Cope with Vision Loss"(!) Resistance attacks in France, Germany, Greece, US.One call.

Speaker 2: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzan and the community at large.

Speaker 1: That's right, you. Are listening to anarchy radio on KWVA Eugene. I'm here in the studio with John. The number, as always, is 541-346-0645, I'll. Say that again. 541346064. Five, I think we have some music from system. Of a down to get us warmed up this evening, here we go.

Speaker 3: Trying to build a prison.

Speaker 4: Trying to build a prison.

Speaker 3: Following the right, we can conveniently available for all the kids following the conveniently available for all. The kids.

Speaker 0: In Hollywood.

Speaker 3: Nearly two million Americans are incarcerated in the prison system prison system. Of the US.

Speaker 4: Another president.

Speaker 3: Drug offenders sell your presence. You don't even play in Tyler, TX. Paying for your words against a new non rich minor drug offenders fill your prisons. You don't even play caller Texas paying. For your words. Against them, you're not rich.

Speaker 0: In Hollywood.

Speaker 3: The percentage of Americans in the prison system prison system has doubled. Since 1985. Trying to build a prison, trying to build a prison. For you.

Speaker 4: Baby drug policy shows and treatment should increase. Sentences who are research and policy.

Speaker 3: And law enforcement decreased while passing mandatory minimums, utilizing drugs to pay for secret wars around the world. Drugs are now your global policy. Now you police the globe. Money is used to recollections and trained brutal corporate sponsored dictators around.

Speaker 0: The world.

Speaker 3: Trying to build the pressure on the trying to build the prison, the trying to build the prison for you.

Speaker 2: System of a down. The track is presence song. You kind of guessed it. I guess. New metal, right? New metal. What? 20 years ago? That's that. Album is more than 20 years old, but.

Speaker 0: Is it really?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's. And what happened to mental? It seems like everything is so dreary and no energy. In the old pop music field.

Speaker 1: 2001 yeah.

Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't realize it was that all. Well, a reminder in four days, Saturday, January 7th at Salami back, Sanami books, 7:00 PM. Political prisoner support. Evening. Music by foraging and the rattling bones. It's somewhat local band. They're going to have calendars and. Yeah, it should be fun. I'm going to hook up with some old friends there. This Saturday. Here in Eugene, Oak #5 might be in the mail already. They were really hoping to send it out. Before December was out, didn't quite make it, but close. I think we'll. Get our hands on that real soon. Well, it's called said 541-346-0645. Catherine will be here next week. Be here on the 10th. She had to skip December. So we're going to catch up on that. And you know overall. There's a certain pattern. It strikes me as. 2023 lies before us. What is not dysfunctional? You know, as civilization decays all around us. A major airline collapses during the busiest holiday week of the year. You know Southwest Airlines, they came up with all these different reasons for that. Yeah, it's it's a big old tech problem. For one thing, once you get rid of all the people. And then you have the inevitable tech problem. There's nobody home. There's nobody to talk to. You can't even get anybody on the phone. It's so a typical thing. And today, if you. We're slow in the draw and had to catch. Some of this news. About a major political party in this country which has no platform, cannot govern. The failure as of today to elect a House GOP speaker. Reflects a larger failure. I mean, we know electoral politics is, of course, a fig leaf for the real more basic system of power. It's there to prevent awareness of far more basic ruling institutions, but. In any case, the debacle of today in recent years is telling. Get into some other fails later in the hour. Pretty sure about that, and oh, here's another area. See, there's no exceptions to this rule about everything is. Failing football, I bet you wouldn't think I was going to bring a football, but yeah, I mean. I see it once in a while. Many millennia ago I played football and this is what I'm getting at in grade school. If you play football, you know as a kid. The first thing you know about defensive football. Is how to tackle, namely wrap up the legs, wrap up the legs. If you watch any football now. NFL football, for sure, and I I think college football too. They do anything about that. It's like there's a rule against it. They grab somebody's arm, the ball carriers arm. Or they try to attack them around the shoulders around the waist. The reason you wrap up the legs is they won't go any further. You wrap up the leg. Every time they they're flailing around like a drunken rugby players. The bulk area keeps on going. It gets at least several more yards every time because they don't know how to tackle, and no one, almost no one has ever even mentioned this. This alarming elephant in the room, so it kind of ruins it if you have. Any any taste at all for? How the game is played? Or maybe once was played, it's. And then you know. The other maybe the other part of this thing is. College football. I'm I'm aware of this. It's all the transfer portal now, right? That just came in big time. These kids just transfer around to different schools. They're not student excellent athletes. They're not connected necessarily. Any school at all. They just float around and and just jump to another school. I could go on and on about that. And now I'm revealing that I know all too much about football anyway. Yeah, the point. Is there are no exceptions to the. Roll that. Everything is a mess. Just graphically, visibly, obviously. Ah is a little bit of environmentalist of this. Just caught my notice yesterday. New York Times. Waste mixes with. Warm water blighting the shores of Cape Cod. Very lovely. Beautiful. Place, especially in the summer, I think or maybe all year round. Anyway, poisonous algae. Has overtaken more and more of Cape Cod's. Once lovely rivers and bays. This, I mean, we're really it goes to town in the summer. They don't get the poisonous algae year round, but it's just becoming so. Such a big problem, even up in New England. And all the kinds of extreme weather. Now there are deadly rain storms hitting California all up and down the the state. The impact on the drought of severe drought is remains to be seen, but to get their flooding. Now, but you know it rains in the winter, but. This is. Kind of unseasonal. On the violence front, this is read about this yesterday. January 2nd, emergency curfew in Udora, Arkansas. Yes, town in southeast Arkansas. Just awash in violence. Just, I mean, the town is in decline. But now it's just real craziness that they slapped on. A very strict. Evening curfew. Yeah, these things just. And I don't have to look for. Bizarre extreme stuff. It's just pretty much anywhere you look. Back on New Year's Eve in. Mobile AL 10 people were shot. Downtown mobile. At least one fatally. There were. More than one on the critical list, so I. Don't know how many. Died totally but. And today the news came out. A record number of people were killed by cops in 2022. 11176 to be precise. Might might be a few more than that, but. Yeah, that was the record. Just yesterday, a lot of stuff early in the week here. This is Breckenridge, Pennsylvania. Just a little ways northeast of Pittsburgh. Pennsylvania police chief. Was killed and another was wounded another officer. Pursuit near Pittsburgh and he was killed after a chase. So. You know it's. The cops are killing people, but it's more. More of a blowback, more cops or. Falling in the line of duty. We might be out of here, or I might be out here a little early tonight. We'll see. It's some interesting political stuff. Resistance stuff. This is a shout out here for Adam and Denver, Adam and Denver. Is launching A primal anarchy reading group. And it's it's a little ways off, but not that not that far off, just a little more than two weeks, its initial meeting will be at. 7:00 PM Wednesday the 18th at 2 S Broadway. Which is where mutiny books. Is located and yeah, he's got some. Really good plans for kicking that off. Delving into various questions that that could be a real fine. Book group Fairly Open and yeah, good luck to them. On December 17th. This is from Athens. There's lots of neighborhoods in Athens, but. This has to do with the state murder of Kostas Frangoulis. He's among the. Victims of. The cops. In the area, early hour of the 17th, we attacked the offices of OTE. The big telecommunication company. Smashing out the windows. No state murder will go unanswered. From Athens indie media. And on the on the 18th? This is in the South of France, December 18th Sunday. In vitros. Sabotage of high voltage lines cuts power to the airport of Marseille and Airbus. Yeah, tech on high voltage lines. 2 fires. A tip, part arson attack, one of the two fires led to a power failure. At part of the Marseille Marignan Airport. For the none of these actions have not been claimed. And on the 21st? Well, this was announced on the 21st, that is, we sabotaged. The 200. And 25,000 Volt pylon on the main line. That supplies electricity to the chemical industrial center of salandra that's in southern France. Yeah, big chemical plants there. And they detailed the method very cool from act for freedom. Now, how you saw which parts of of the tower. And to get it to fall the way. You want it to fall and. You know which, which cut how many centimeters above the whatever it is. Anyway, they had it all figured out. Back in Athens. Thursday, December 20, December 22nd. This is an expropriation in the supermarket in Elysia. Neighborhood of Athens. We carried out an expropriation at the market capital market supermarket in the neighborhood of Alicia. And products were shared among the people at the adjacent street market. They had fun, they invited other people to do that. You can just. Charge in there and. Get away with a lot before. Then he chose up, I think. All right, here's one. A full page story yesterday in the New York Times called climate activist block. German roads raising awareness and animus. A full page story. Partly it's has to do with a group called Last Generation. And the disruptions that they've been causing have been growing. Throughout 2022. Quite a number of citizens are. Quite annoyed by it. But it's quite a thing. And this this happened yesterday the 2nd. Outside a village in western Germany. That is to be raised to allow the. Expansion of a coal mine. Sun up position to that. Folks through fireworks, bottles and stones. Have police outside the village of Lazarat before the situation. Got pacified, the cops pulled back. German news agency DPA reported protesters had previously set up a burning barricade and one glued his hand to the road. Yeah, they're trying to wipe out this hamlet. To expand the. Garzweiler lignite coal mine. Well, here's some of the kind of Antifa news. On Thursday in Jackson Heights, Queens, in New York. There was a joyous community defense to predict protect drag story hour. From the far right. Though harassers and violent fascists showed up, including proud boys and known Nazis, they were vastly outnumbered and humiliated by our incredible display of love and solidarity. And another one very recently in Orlando, FL. O2 in Florida one was in Fort Lauderdale, FL. Pitiful efforts to disrupt drag shows. Very strong support to defend the drag shows.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 2: As I keep saying so, where is this enormous threat? Every time, it seems they get their butts kicked every time, I mean. Let's wow, we're quaking in our boots bought these crepes. Who? You can't pull it off. Anyway, I've said that before today this was reported today on Fox News. And I wonder about the motivation there anyway. Their thing in the news today, said an anonymous person reportedly affiliated with Antifa. That's of course that's a well known organization, capital A Antifa. It's like black block. You know the that organization. Capital B, Capital B which is nothing but fiction, of course, any anybody with. Any knowledge of anything knows that anyway. Claimed responsibility for a recent fire at a bank in Portland, OR. As retaliation for the recent arrests of five alleged domestic terrorists in Atlanta. Total alarm fire broke out at the Bank of America Branch SE 37th. And Hawthorne. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, December 31st. New Year's Eve no injuries were reported at the scene, and the Portland Fire Investigations Unit is still investigating the cause of the fire. But Portland police confirmed that it is being investigated as arson. Yeah, that's what the bank has figured out. So some action, it isn't just all. France, Germany, Greece. Yeah, 541-346-0645. On this slow, dark cold day. It's slightly noticeable, it's it's. It's just wishful thinking that the days are getting longer, but kind of seems like they're. Starting to.

Speaker 1: Definitely notice.

Speaker 2: Good, good. OK. Carl verifies that it's been 2 weeks. Since the solstice. Yeah, this whole thing about the Southwest Airlines. Yeah, just. It's just a big. Lump down as they admitted, the government admitted it as well. With ever more technological interdependency and vulnerability. Even fewer human to human. Interactions there. Yeah, there'll be. There'll be more of that. There's undoubtedly there'll be more of that. Unless there's some. Active resistance that challenges that and makes it harder, more expensive. To do things that way. We're going to have more. Action along the lines of the the kids who have figured it out quite a lot at the. Leonard Club in New York. We hear more about things like that. Excuse me, there is a piece. In the new Harvard magazine, the January, February. Magazine from Harvard. It's called. Humanists all. It's just it mostly just is descriptive and informative piece. It doesn't go super far, but it's the long piece. What is lost in the precipitous decline of the arts and humanities? James Engel. Wonders, arts and humanities. Endangered species. And this is common knowledge and it's what is a six page article or something like that. Complete with the chart showing. The number of bachelor's degrees awarded nationally every year. And the enormous shift during just the past 10 years? With interests in the humanities plummeting. And focus on computer science and allied. Even even outpacing the the pure sciences by quite a long ways. Like chemistry and biology and so forth, it's. Incredible shift. 10 years worth, it's. That's a sharply rising. Spike overtime. And as James Ingles is wringing his hands and. You know, it's it's all about it's you know, what about human rights and democracy and blah blah blah. well-being and the well-being of the nation and there is peril and blah blah blah. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't go anywhere in terms of. What the basic culture is, what pushes it in that direction and. The interconnection, this is some weak liberal rhetoric at the end, but it does. Do the job on. Laying out just how bad it is. You get some stuff about electric vehicles. For example. You know these things are. So heavily, literally, heavily reliant on batteries. These hybrid and electric cars. Well, when it gets cold, the batteries are way less efficient. The efficiency anyway is in question because the cars are much more they're much heavier, for one thing. To maintain battery temperature. It it it has to draw a lot of power. You know, you turn on your car heater and so forth and. RC, thank you for this. These these quick slogan like solutions and happy days ahead.

Speaker 1: They made-up.

Speaker 2: With the most common problems, the most obvious things like that and. And here's one from North Carolina. About Vinfast, which is an electric car manufacturer. And the point of it? Is in terms of what devastation is going to be wrought by this thing? It's you can point out that. It's fewer emissions per car to operate to drive it compared to gasoline powered engines, but. Mainly overlooked is the cost of building them. In in several regards, so this has to do this. This is from NC Policy watch. There there's Carolina policy which withstands of loblolly Pines, rivers, creeks. It feels like the country, but this neck of the woods is home to many polluting industries. And they listed. A whole bunch of them, including some mines and nuclear plant. What Duke Energy is doing? And but now now even was a mega project. In the very center of North Carolina, near the Chatham Wake County line. Will fill in wetlands and streams. In an area already prone to water pollution. Vin Fest plans to build a factory and 1300 acres of forested land. Yeah, horrendous blow. Nature in that area. But nearly 200 countries approve a biodiversity accord enshrining human rights and the rights of nature. Yeah, this is just news this week. Get this the non binding agreement reflects a growing understanding that blah blah blah blah conservation, blah blah indigenous people. That forest, mountains and rivers have rights of their own. Oh, this is bound to rescue everything. This non binding agreement, even these so-called binding agreements are just baloney. Anyone knows that if you have? If you. You know, put in your thinking cap for 10 seconds or less or followed any of this. You know that. Well, yeah, let's let's what do we we got something for the break. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1: For the break.

Speaker 2: Nice thinking of Cliff here and his friends. Yeah, we'll be back shortly. And maybe get some calls. Hi there, Commission. You on the line?

Speaker 5: John, I'm here. Good to talk to you. Hey. So just wanted to bring this up because me and Anne listen religiously, but sometimes the missed part, so forgive me if you have. Of this, but a few weeks ago there was a an editorial in the Guardian by William Shatner, who had the weird fortune to be shot into space a couple years ago. And he reflects on his experience in space and realizes well, he has some regrets about Star Trek. And it reminded me a little bit of your essay from a couple of decades ago about. Contract and The upshot was he realized he got up to space, and we've, as a culture, have spent so much time trying to sort of leave the earth. But it's our only home. He looks out and he doesn't see a new frontier. He sees this emptiness and nothing and. Meanwhile, we're just ravaging our planet, so I thought that was. I don't know if it completely redeems William Shatner, but.

Speaker 2: Well, yeah. You know, I I didn't mention it. On the air, but I remember reading that. Very thoughtful piece. Yeah, it kind of reverses the whole, you know, the great leap into the future and the militarized the Star Trek, all that stuff you. Know and and the. The is there, we call that show they're they're just always tightly enclosed in these unnatural spaces and. But he's looking at from one of them and and pondering that. Yeah, that's. That was very interesting. I he he shows for all kinds of stuff. So I I you know, I had no idea whether he. Until that, I had no idea whether he had, you know, thought about too much. But yeah, guys in his 90s now he's. He's it was nice to see that, I thought.

Speaker 5: Yeah, there's there's one. Little that I have the article. Here in front of me. He said it was an immensely powerful awakening for me. It filled me with sadness. I realized that we had spent decades, if not centuries, being obsessive, looking away, looking outside. I played my part in popularizing the idea that space was the final frontier, but I had to get to space to understand that the earth is and will remain early home. And that we've been ravaging it relentlessly, making it uninhabitable, Bill. Yeah. It's interesting too. Just in, in the context of Elon Musk being obsessed with going to Mars, Jeff Bezos going to outer space, it seems like I've heard the idea a while ago that that sort of was embedded in the technological culture from the beginning. In some ways, this idea to sort of. Separate and leave the Earth has been part of our culture. Sure, fantasy of our culture for a long time and well, we actually send William Shatner up there and he sees nothing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, a nice crack in the wall. Yeah. You bring it out? Yeah. That's even stronger than I recall reading the thing. And. Yeah, it's allinson. Yeah, it's just that here's another millionaire. He's just. Narcissistic League getting a thrill from his little rocket ride. But yeah, he saw a lot more.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Well. Either way, that's going to have to go down as part of his legacy, whether the Trekkies like.

Speaker 2: It or not. Right? Well, yeah, it's not too late. Yeah, people do, you know, wake up on occasion. You know, the the great. Spy novelist John La caray. He ended up writing some very radical novels, and the people that just wanted this Cold War stuff. You know, we're not on board. They just wondered what happened to the guy. But he deepened his thinking. You know it, he just got into all kinds of exposures of the corporate culture and the rest of it, you know, it's. Some things you didn't delve into, but you know that was a nice twist it and it's in his old age.

Speaker 5: I had no idea. That's interesting.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of shocking to these people who. And you know, the spy stuff is interesting. He was a good writer, but it only went so far.

Speaker 5: Right. It's it's strange to see at the same time, I believe Elon Musk perhaps tweeted today something about, you know, the world being like dystopian novels, 1984 and brave new World and Fahrenheit 451. I think he brought up, but he has no absolutely no consciousness that he is. You know, at the forefront of doing that, you know? Meanwhile he's. Putting microchips into people's brains, thank you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's steaming, isn't it? Because it like you say once in a while he makes some. Very valid insight and then, but it just keeps on creating a nightmare. You know, just it's just. It's bizarre the the disconnect.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's almost like. It's a sort of cynicism. That they just kind of dwell on, I suppose.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess that counts for a great deal. I remember when the Sun Microsystems guy. Very big, high tech corporativo would send passages from Kaczynski's so-called manifesto to other big high tech mavens to get their reaction. And practically always find that, well, very interesting. Very. Yeah. That sounds very sound. And yeah, that's when. And then you then you reveal who wrote it, you know. This for sport, I mean, I mean, I don't know how much of A cynic or nihilist he was it, but I mean, it was interesting that those reactions, they saw the validity of the analysis. And he was one. Of them who you know was. Doing what the? What Kaczynski so so well. You know, accounted for and and analyze. Yeah, I guess you're gonna have to take that up to cynicism too. Just. Rich people having some support with no intention of changing anything.

Speaker 5: Right. I think sometimes some of. These you know. Even accelerationist types they can get to the same sort of critiques that critics of technology can. But then they sort of just choose the opposite direction. And I'm not. Sure. Why they do that, it's something that's sort of fascinating to me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's another. That's another crazy conclusion to get to. Well, it's just the the hopelessness, I guess, you know. The only thing left is just to get it over with and make it worse. I mean it's. It's kind of crazy on its face, but if you. You conclude that there's nothing else you know possible then. I guess that's what you're left with.

Speaker 5: Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, in in that case, you know, we look for any bit of hope and certainly your show. Is my little dash of hope every week, so appreciate what you're doing and and glad to glad to.

Speaker 1: Thank you, Lucy.

Speaker 5: Be able to share with you.

Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Good to hear from you.

Speaker 5: Hey, take care, John.

Speaker 2: You too, man, be well. Yeah, well, that maybe they are worthwhile. Let's say late last week from Bloomberg. Get a little more on the plastic situation. Something like 2 million metric tons. Of plastics produced in the 1950s. Now it's more than 400 million metric tons. And if it stays on this track this pace. Yearly plastic production could reach 1.1 billion metric tons by 2050. And there's you. Know there's no end to pointing out the. The horrid. Caused the terrible environmental cost. Yeah, that's there's a lot of ways to look at that. A lot of ways to measure the total. The production it doesn't seem to be challenged. Well, I'm looking to just say the same old thing again. But you know, if you're just recycling your little recycling it, what what does that do? It it almost helps. The increase in production. And Environmental network news. Just reporting that the amount of microplastics deposited on sea floors. Has tripled. The amount has tripled in the past 20 years. In the past 20 years alone. And they point out how. Not only all the invasive health problems. All of that, but how it drives global warming. Just as global warming drives the plastics in, in in a in a sick. Anyway, enough about plastics just due to present some of the vaunted advantages and seamless. Advances of. Tech always. It's always interests me if you just look at the verge once in a while. For example, late last week Twitter is recovering from a few hours of glitching us. They don't even. Know it seemed like somebody just unplugged the server racks, maybe and and I don't know how long that lasted. But yesterday, Microsoft OneDrive. Which is a cloud storage. Was not working. There's an outage there. Cutting open files or access. The cloud, the service so. And they were working on that yesterday. I don't know the update, I don't have an update. And on a very busy day at the. End of the holiday week. Party was the very end of it yesterday in Miami. They had to slow down the. Air traffic there. For some hours. Due to an air traffic computer problem. Yeah, it's all mixed together. Couldn't handle it, kind of reminded me of the. Airline Southwest airline thing but. Yeah, it can be downright dangerous. These fails. And today, Twitch is recovering from its first major outage of the year. Yeah, I mean. How how much of this does it take to register something? Some conclusions, even during the incident. And I don't know if the recovery is achieved, but the streaming site called Twitch show blank pages for accounts or quote an error has occurred which made it seem like. A streamer deleted the the person's account. And it affected both desktop and mobile users. With iOS and Android users seeing a quote error loading followed channels. Anyways, this is getting into stuff above my pay grade, but little you get the idea. Meanwhile, they think this is. Yeah, this was. Yesterday, NBC News. Thinking about studies from 2 separate journals. About screen time turned new studies show associations between screen time and behavior on psychological risks for kids. Adding to a growing body of evidence. That excessive use of smartphones and other devices can be digitized to their excessive. See the all that stuff is fine. You just don't want to be excessive. Yeah, I kind of wonder about that. What? What is excessive? What is the? That's kind of a. I think something to hide. Behind one of the studies links screen time with higher rates of obsessive compulsive disorder. Along preteens. And kids, especially youngsters, are. Handling A rougher time emotionally. Having more outbursts and. The luminous bursting out. Yep, screen time. But meanwhile, this is from Saturday's New York Times, the 31st. The sad piece to find young readers, librarians turn to TikTok. Yeah, I started from New York. And you just go with the flow. Meet them where they're. At that's what they advise. That's what they're doing. You've got to meet them where they're at. No matter how poisonous that is, you just keep feeding it. You legitimate it. Yeah. To find young readers, librarians turn to TikTok. Yeah, there's such a great amount of. Reading going on. As online. Takes over everything else. Interesting piece from Metro in London last Wednesday. Thank you for showing me this, Richard. Having the ability to browse social media or watch content from YouTube or Netflix in seconds means the concept of boredom is a distant memory. But according to the experts, filling every spare second of the day with distraction will not be for the best. And there's there's kind of a wrinkle. That's because when we enter a profound level of boredom, our brains actually use that time to come up with ideas. It might be better to be a little bored and unlock you might. Come up with something you might. Have a thought, even an original thought. Say also at the end of the week. This is Saturday. UM. This is from the verge. Bring back personal blogging. Twitter is creaking. Social media seems less fun than ever. Maybe it's time to get a. Little more personal. Yeah, but through blogging, I mean, they they only go so far getting a little more personal certainly doesn't mean moving away from the whole Technosphere. But at least it does. It is a comment. A brief comment on. How sad this is how hollow this is. And also. Yeah, it goes on to say in the beginning there were blogs and they were the original social web. We built community. We found our people. Yeah, it's so lovely. So wonderful. So what happened to that? Why did that just completely become something else? And maybe it was always not something else anyway. It was wonderful. We were linked and so forth. So the rider. And Mike Judge says. I want to go back there. You know, it was much nicer and everything. And yeah, don't look at the inner logic of it or how that builds and. How that would? Move in a certain direction and has moved in a certain direction. Oh, here's here's a good one I just couldn't even read any further on this one. I don't remember the source, but Simon Hill. Very recently wrote an article how do you use your smartphone to cope with vision loss? From magnifier to look out, here's how you can benefit from features on Android and Apple devices. Can you overlooking the global blight of myopia? Global as in. Global phones now screen time. Now we're sightedness way, way more than it used to occur right in tandem, corresponding exactly with the stirring its screens. But hey, how to use your smartphone to? Cope with vision loss. Overlooking the fact that smartphones cause vision loss. That's about it for now, and Kate will be there next week and. Yeah, don't forget about January 7th. If you're local or somewhat local for the event at. The event that tsunami works that was just a non call.

Speaker 1: That was a **** dial.

Speaker 2: But I see slop sees. Yeah, I think I'll sign off here. You know what's going on? Strong. Which? Fills me with dread and discussed wrestling. Wrestling is real big. It's just come back.

Speaker 1: Like the WWF wrestling.

Speaker 2: I guess it is, it's.

Speaker 1: Like like with costumes and like storylines and all that weird stuff.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the villains need.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Where did I see a lot of that?

Speaker 1: The 1980s.

Speaker 2: 1980s. Yeah, I mean it. It's just it is so fake. There's nothing more fake than pro wrestling. And it's just you see these. Insane punches where the guy just choreographs getting hit and screams, and then the artificial blood comes out. Maybe. Or it's just so. God, who could be entertainment at? In the in the in the grotesque macho character of it too, which is fake, it isn't even. It's fake macho. For that matter. I mean, even lower form of something and. And then they got women in there. Now in these costumes, and they fly around and land on each other from great heights. And which is just. Unbelievably false. It is. What is it that takes that that? Is it? And just so perplexed that comes up some absence of something that feels some kind of something. Nobody. What? Who watches haven't listened to this broadcast so. I'm not worried about that, but it just and it's I apologize for ending on a crazy note, but.

Speaker 0: Oh well.

Speaker 1: Crazy spittle, flecked note.

Speaker 2: Right, right. And just losing it here.

Speaker 4: God, it's so fake.

Speaker 2: Boy, you get over it. The tranquilizer or large martini? Or both. Anyway, thanks for listening, being well and. To me next week, if you'd like. Bye bye.

Speaker 4: This is going to be freely paid.

Speaker 0: Right.

2022

12-27-2022

[audio]

"Blizzard of the century," similar toll in Japan. More extreme weather projected for 2023. 37 million new Covid cases in China in one day. Failure of Southwest Airlines IT: again the vulnerability of tech systems. HBO "The Last of Us" series--based on a video game as pop culture dumbs down. Tesla flops, so do supermarket checkout kiosks. Geo-engineering, apps instead of memory of thinking. Attacks on electricity substations, more on ChatGPT. One call.

Speaker 1: Last night I saw your high that you're popping in the sky.

Speaker 2: Well, you are listening to KWVA, Eugene, where it is time for anarchy radio right now, we're starting precisely on the dot of 7:00. So I'm going to give it a second. So so we can let that recording get started up. But yeah, you hear the number is 541-346-0645. And as we have for the. Couple of weeks we are playing. Music from. The new Brian Eno album. So we'll hear that right after this.

Speaker 3: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host, John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of kW, BA, Eugene or anyone else.

Speaker 1: Old sun sand. It's all right. Hard to stand. Lines to guide us. Always there for the last rain.

Speaker 3: And I can radio December 27th, the last broadcast of 2022.

Speaker 4: There was a.

Speaker 3: Brief power outage last week at the station, which interrupted the recording of the show so, but that will be archived tomorrow, along with the recording of this show. So all was not lost, but yeah, it was confusing for people who at odd hours or not up when it's live, when it's streaming or the radio signal, but it will be available if anybody wants to check it out. Yep, says Carl. Well, worst extreme weather in its history. Buffalo, NY, Western, New York State and certainly not just there. But they had the Blizzard of the century, also Japan, by the way, which kind of got overlooked. They had very heavy snow and quite a number of people died there too. Not as much as in the eastern half of the US, but. Pretty significant. And there is a forecast from WIRED for 2023. Predicting extreme weather everywhere with the global overheating. And as El Nino replaces La Nina during 2023, we don't know exactly when. My name is. Accounts for cooler Equatorial Pacific waters. It won't be the case with El Nino. It's going to really hit the. Heat waves. The drought. More hurricanes. All that stuff that's.

Speaker 4: Well, it's can't.

Speaker 3: Be called a surprise, but it's not going to be some of the good news for 2023. We we got to get some good news. COVID has been busting loose in China. On Friday, there were 37,000,000 new COVID cases. In the one day alone. This caught my eye. Thank you, Richard, from the Guardian on the 17th piece about the self checkout things. The kiosks. You don't have to. Interacted all with the human being in a a cashier to check out your. Stuff at the supermarket, interesting piece. And this. These been around for quite a while. Good. 30 years, especially in the East Coast. I think Krogers and other supermarket chains. I think less out West here. They've got him in Albertson's. I know. Anyway, they were imposed by the companies, not because customers asked for these automated checkout things. But in fact, they're unpopular. They're slower and require the same number of workers who hate them because it's an onerous job to just stand there all day. And mind the machines. It's a slight increase in the spread of disease and it is not effective regarding theft. You can you can still perhaps take what you need and. Bypass whatever checks that the kiosk provides the company. And they're expensive to put in and maintain. And anyway, on and on, there's nothing positive. No positive outcomes despite the claims. You know, it'll speed everything up. It'll be efficient and it's so forth and so forth and the. Yeah, none of that's. Happened. But you know, just a reminder of the larger thing. I mean, whether you're doing it that way or the sort of old fashioned way? It's still the same old. Transaction of commodities and one of the most striking things. That I recall from reading Rahul Vinagame's trainers on living for the use of the young, which is. Very clumsily translated in English. As a revolution of everyday life. That's kind of clunky and I'm not sure what the point of. That is anyway. There's a scene in there, a short scene where. Somebody at a bar. Pays for the drink slides the coin. Across the counter. And I'm not quoting it, but the very the gist of it was that gesture that move is. The central infamy. Of the system, and that's that's certainly makes a strong case for that, that, that sliding the coin over. And it says it all. So whether you're, however, you're shopping, you're still shopping. It's. OK. Yeah, they just brought that to mind. I hadn't thought of that in a while, but it's a standout part of that. Wonderful. Long essay. By our Belgian friend situationist, who's still around, he still writes.

Speaker 4: At times.

Speaker 3: OK, a little environmental stuff here, the groundwater. In California, Central Valley is disappearing at an alarming rate. The pace of groundwater depletion. Has accelerated dramatically during the drought. The drought, of course, is still going on. This is from the LA Times. UM. Yeah, heavy agricultural pumping aquifer aquifer levels.

Speaker 4: Are down.

Speaker 3: To new lows due to this. Draw down the industrial agriculture which has so many other. Bad aspects. And is threatening to devastate our underground water reserves? In that most important. Central Valley, CA just global of global importance. That's the way the system works. Irrawaddy dolphins. AP story yesterday. Death of 1/3 healthy dolphin. In a brief period in the week or two in the eastern promise of Creati. This is Cambodia. And they're about gone, given the. This this extremity, these. The blow to dolphin habitats? It's getting quite severe there.

Speaker 4: Polar bears, yes.

Speaker 3: CBS Story today polar bears in Canada's Western Hudson Bay. Which contains the town of Churchill, which has been called the Polar bear capital of the world. Way fewer polar bears now. I'm down from. They figure eight, 842 of them in 2016. We'll get that backwards. Six, 618. By 2021, whereas there were 842 and 2016. So this isn't. This isn't totally up to date, but between. 2016 and 21. Quite a drop. The actual decline is a lot larger than I would have expected, said a biology professor at the University of Alberta. Who studied the Hudson Bay polar bears for nearly forty years? Yeah, the number of bears in the region is followed by nearly 50% since the 80s. And it's all about the melting ice. Well, risks for other species today in the Journal of American Medicine. Association Pediatrics. That journal. Recounts the results of a study from 2015 to 2021. Bottom line is that emergency room visits for. Kids having mental health crises. Has gone up 8% every year, 8% annual rise and a lot of repeat ER. Visits for the youth. It's another way of. Measuring that, I guess. And there's there's just awful, awful news. The Horn of Africa. And to the South is Mount Kilimanjaro. Where the vegetation around that famous Mountain is dying and it's. It's resulting in death for thousands of animals. This is the third year that. Drought in that region. Has been ever more severe. There's a little pop concert thing. I guess I'm just. Yeah, I'm a cranky old guy and. Anyway, there's the new HBO series they're rolling out with a lot of publicity called. Yeah. What? Uh. It's about the gathering. Catastrophe and the survivors. Anyway, what I'm getting at is it's based on a video game. The new low, we get the comic book movies, the comic book, novels. There's even a. A comic book version of war and peace. One of the just masterpieces of writing. Tools to his big long war and peace. And now it's a comic book. Yeah, don't don't. To throw your brow. You don't don't have to read much of anything. Just two pictures. It's it's kind enough. It's the same thing. And here's the recall of the week. Announced today, Samsung is recalling about 663,000 top loading washing machines. That can overheat and pose a fire hazard. Then this was announced last Thursday. Many reports of smoking, melting, overheating or fire connected with these washing machines. Oh boy. Yeah you can. You could you could get this at Best Buy Costco, Home Depot, et cetera, et cetera. All the big big box chains. It costs between 900 bucks and 1500. But they're going to be recalled. They're being recalled as we speak.

Speaker 4: 85413.

Speaker 3: 460645 you can be the last caller of 2022. Or the first of the last or something?

Speaker 4: Got some strange things.

Speaker 3: Not that that's the property of late December here, but. These attacks on electric substations. Several of them up in Washington state Tacoma area following, I think the first one that made news was in North Carolina last week. Just last week or so. Kind of a mystery. I mean, we know that some of these. Far right morons get crazy about the. The fact of drag shows that go really nuts about that, and they may even. Lash out at power substations. The the connection is kind of lost. To me anyway, what's that gonna have to do with? Their hysteria. About drag performers anyway, may may not even be that. In a much more minor mystery, is my FOIA application. If you would give her to that way back a couple years ago, I was trying to. I was trying to. Get the government to provide that. It would be all didactic, you know. Redacted, I mean probably wouldn't be much with it, but something for my papers in the archive of the University of Oregon Archive is suggesting that that. You could throw that in there too. It might be interesting. To see what they're disclosing. Well, after much Hemming and hawing and. Dilatory excuses and we don't even know who does that and we don't even know who you are. And just all this nonsense. They finally, about a year and a half ago. I got a letter and they said we are now processing your application year and a half, nothing, still nothing so. Kind of a minor silliness there. You might find that this is this could be possibly slightly entertaining.

Speaker 4: I agreed to an.

Speaker 3: Interview with someone named Tom Jump. Supposed philosopher and high level debater? Or that's maybe what he thinks of it himself. A legend in his own mind, maybe, but. Very ideal. I just glanced at the website. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't Nazis or something, but it was. It was pretty vague. I failed to listen to any of his podcasts, which is a mistake on my part, but it was something about philosophy and spirituality and. I have. Well, we'll have a go, you know, let's have a conversation. Well, the guy who was unbelievable, I mean, there wasn't one credible thing, he said. It's all. Everything is fine. He was like a. Cut rate Steven Pinker, who's a cut rate. I don't know what. But anyway, everything is good. It's just a matter of evolution. There's always been cancer because it's just genetics and everything he said. Was just basically nothing, just rosy picture. He's total shill for progress and everything's fine. And the kids are fine, and it's all healthy and good, and it's all evolution. It's all evolution. I mean, where do you start? Again is just hopeless and also arrogant as as ignorant as he was. He was at least as. As arrogant, it's just unbelievable. Anyway, I didn't suffer this fool for long the. The interview was over in five or 10 minutes, I just said. Good buy, you moron. I I'm not going to waste my time further with this. Nobody home? Nobody. I mean just making well, there was a logic to it. There was a consistency to it, but. It was pathetic. There's something coming up. We might even get a shout out on the air about this. I'll mention it next week. Produce certain here in Eugene at tsunami books. Down Willamette St. on Saturday the 7th. Is going to be a kind of casual event. Josh and the organization. Trying to back up political prisoners. Will be on hand, and there's there's a calendar. Which honors those. Anarchist political prisoners and others. Not too much going on. That might be very interesting to check out and the same bonds thing for January. Will be. As it has been scheduled except for this month, at the last Sunday evening of the. Month of the end of the month there. Excuse me. On the night of December 18th, we tracked down and burned a cosmos van. That's a telecommunications company. In the cousin Riani area of Athens. This is the revenge for. Some of the victims. Murdered lately by the cops. Power to the four comrades for the case of the Parus traffic police murder, power to the hunger striker Alfredo Cosmetology and Thanos. Pension jalou. Who started hunger and thirst strike? On the 19th and there's more people doing that. Yeah, a courageous. Ditch defiance. There are a couple of things on the Antifa front last week at it's going down. News of Kansas City. Drag show what else? With four right Christians trying to disrupt it. They didn't get anywhere and in less than a day, community defense was mobilized and. Prevented these creeps from messing it up. And also last week in Aurora, IL, Northern Illinois. Proud boys threatened to come and harass a drag show. They didn't even show up. They failed to show. Up. Apparently the proud boys have just about gone extinct in Northern Illinois. There were all. Three of them. And now I think there may only be one. And probably wise that he didn't. Come down to parade his ignorance. And hate. So once again, I posed. This question over and over. Where is the huge threat? System was dangling by a thread because of. Because I'm not saying it's not serious, but. They get their butts kicked every time. It seems like every time I read about some confronted. Or possible confrontation? Guess who loses? So where is? The big overarching tide of of this ugliness. It ain't there. Some people are making a profession of.

Speaker 4: Pumping this up.

Speaker 3: I don't know why exactly but. And let's see one more on December 11th. We'll go into a pylon of the Fessenheim, Paris. Extra high voltage line. And unscrewed the bolts of this tower. The plan is still standing, but its structure is clearly compromised that our revolutionary anger acting aligns with nature and let a winter storm do the rest. More stuff, largely in solidarity with. The number of. Anarchists locked up. Where there's been so much. I'm going to get to this maybe in the second-half of the show. All about this chat.

Speaker 4: GPT and the. AI that produces art.

Speaker 3: Pardon me, get something in my throat here.

Speaker 4: But another.

Speaker 3: The political thing here.

Speaker 4: This is from beachhead communications.

Speaker 3: In Orlando. I saw this piece in the times last Thursday. And I didn't read it about a fashion show. In Los Angeles, put on by the big. French label Celine. Big fashion outfit. Lots of money here and.

Speaker 4: Name of the theme. The this kind of fashion isn't owed to. The New York.

Speaker 3: Indie rock scene of early 2000s. So it's.

Speaker 4: The age of emptiness.

Speaker 3: And it's all Indy. So they look kind of, you know, kind of punk sort of. And the Iggy Pop was there and a lot of people with a lot of money, people who chase.

Speaker 4: Fashion and trying to.

Speaker 3: Cassion on this most contrived of. Anywhere. Beachhead communications. Titled at the Age of Idleness. Oh, excuse me. The age of Endiness. You don't have the right to be lazy, but you are permitted to look and dress as if you are. Yeah, with the. Financial self-interest terms and conditions apply. Clever. Reading of this. They keep up, man. He was more extreme early on. Pretty much pre. Punk, we're right at the advent of punk back. In the late 70s. And now he's. Pimping for these big bucks. Fashion deals. Yeah, it wasn't well. We do have some more, Brian, you know. Some of the greatest hits from the greatest latest album. There's something like that. It's kind of a new. Thing for him and. Yeah, some of that will be back soon.

Speaker 1: I would say. This is all that there is. Driving slow. I may say. I may have to say. Was new and it's not the same. Nothing's the same.

Speaker 3: Hello Josh.

Speaker 2: We do have a Josh.

Speaker 3: Oh, we do have a judge.

Speaker 5: Hi there. Hi, how are?

Speaker 3: You. Oh, good. Yeah. Hey, thanks for calling.

Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I did.

Speaker 3: A brief shout out earlier about January 7th. Maybe maybe you could. Fills in a little bit the what is the group that's behind what you're trying to do there?

Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. So it's a, it's kind of a big event going on at Tsunami Bookstore on January 7th. And the band that's playing is called forging and the rattling bones, they're going to be doing a CD release party. And they're they're a Oregon based anti capitalist environmental justice kind of group. They're musics, really kind of cool and radical and.

Speaker 1: Oh, I know that. Yeah. Really.

Speaker 2: They're great people. Well, that's awesome.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So they'll be playing some people from the civil Liberties Defense Center. The CLDC will be talking, and then I'll be I'll be talking also about political prisoners in this calendar that I'm a part of that that raises awareness and and funds for people in prison.

Speaker 4: Sounds good.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it should be a good time.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Got a lot there.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And the calendar has been around for a long time. It's kind of got some connections to Eugene. Two, it started in 2001 with former Black Panthers and members of the Weather Underground that have been serving decades in prison. And then about 10 years ago, one of the one of the. Elf people Daniel McGowan, he got involved and he's still involved today.

Speaker 3: Yeah, great guy. I got the last respect for him.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: And that's. A very nice base, that tsunami down in Willamette.

Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. It should, yeah, for sure. So we hope, yeah, we hope there's a good crowd out there and and we're looking forward to kind of. Raising raising some funds, but also just raising awareness about the people in prison and and the abolitionism and things like that.

Speaker 3: OK, very good and welcome. To our town here, I guess you're. Pretty new here.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. I just moved in October from Baltimore, and I've been kind of an East Coast person for most of my life. So I'm looking forward to learning Eugene and and. In the area.

Speaker 3: Now that the wind storm might be over, why?

Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. Looking forward to some better weather.

Speaker 3: Well, thanks for calling, Josh.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Thank you so much, John. I look forward to seeing you and have a great rest of your show.

Speaker 3: Thank you. Very cool. Yeah, that's kind of a, I wouldn't say an antidote, but I was thinking about the. Brian, you know. Pretty desolate and mournful. And we got to do something to change that. That theme or that zeitgeist? All that's there is in play on this bitter day, that sort of stuff. It's. I like it. It's it's. I don't know if I'd say tuneful, but you know, it's good music and. But maybe we can overcome the. The general. Tone of of the music. This is. Hard times. What 2023 awaits? Yeah, in January 7th. Sounds like a very nice way to kick off a more hopeful time. Uh, let's see. Got some Tesla news. It was a six hour test drive. This was reported last Wednesday in the New York Times, Tesla's model Y. The driverless car of the future. Nope, Nope. The bottom line is driverless cars have a quote very, very long way to go. Yeah, Tesla stock was way down. Last week, to some of the stock market week. And there was a piece in fast company, Anne Marie Squid. She's writing about how. Yeah, yeah. Musk is is a creep. He's he's really shows himself to be. More and more so by the day it seems like he's down there with. Kanye and. Other trash anyway. But she's not put off by that. It isn't she, she says. Most of us didn't buy the car because of one person. Because Musk has been a weirdo for years. And now he's worse. But anyway. But we still swallowing the green ideology that that beckoning thing. Because it's about an entirely new auto industry.

Speaker 4: Come again?

Speaker 3: Entirely new. And that's a bizarre thing to say. It's the same old extractivism and. Where do these cars come from? They don't fall down immaculately from the heavens. No, it's the same. Trashing of the environment and there's a. New book this has. This has something to do with the matter at hand. Thank you BG for this one. There's a new book called Cobalt Red. How the blood of the Congo powers our lives. By Siddharth Kara. Who is at Harvard School of Public Health? Yeah, this is about to come out. Yeah, cobalt mining saw some promo on this children. She's a 10 year old little boy. Climbing over to dig inside these pits mining pits. Well, I don't think I have to even say what is all involved in. That this new green sustainable. EV Era we're coming into. The pollution that has suffocated the mining provinces for months, this is the southern region of the Democratic Republic of Congo. Man, it's pretty sickening these industrial sites. Were small children scrounged for cobalt? Pretty ugly. But hey, it's an entirely new auto industry. If you don't know anything about anything. Well, the new CES. This is the Consumer Electronics Show. It's about to open in Las Vegas. I think it's a week away. This is the annual thing. The big. They're trying. They're trying to, they have to draw 100,000 attendees. After the drop, because of the pandemic. The theme for this for these exhibitors and startups and new companies over 1000 new exhibitors this year. Theme for the show is human security. Human security smart this and that. It's just an invasive surveillance thing. Among other things, it's also. The abject of flaccid laziness for people who can't. Managed to. Figure out when to turn on a light switch or other. Other stuff you got going on in your house. Yeah, this is really something and they go on to. Talk about John Deere, for example, is showcasing some of their agricultural technology. That contributes to sustainability. Yeah, more and more high tech industrial agriculture. It is always. Contributed to sustainability. Maybe that's why we're in this catastrophic situation. And the metaverse? The Metaverse is a. Key theme too. That shared an immersive virtual experience world. That's going to be quite wonderful. A lot of companies are investing in it. So yeah, that will be just uh. A parade of awful stuff that lies to you. It's all coming. I don't know if this is going to be part of CES, but. Pretty amazing piece yesterday from the Verge. A woman named Vic. She's hoping for one universal productivity app. You know, so you can line up all your to do lists. Amalgamate them and have a perfectly organized life. She says she doesn't have really any memory. Or she doesn't want to do any thinking, and maybe that's due to all the online prosthetics involved. You don't have to do any of that. I mean it's it's really. Yeah, it's it's really an app which is. A kind of pan To Do List. And there's nothing that escapes this. For example, the part of the last of this piece. About the desire for the all-encompassing productivity app. Neither of these. She's talking about the different ones that she uses, like a dozen of these different ones. This is scramble this you. Think of the time when waste. You could jot it down on a piece of paper, but no, you got to, you got to go to. All these apps and talking about she's talking about two. To Do List is 1, and anyway she's kind of. Well, she's sizing them up and what they don't include or can't include. Neither of these apps are referring to a couple of them is great at helping me keep a house cleaning schedule, nor are they helpful for keeping my plants alive. So she's got two new apps for that. I mean, are people. That brainless? Now they they don't. They can't figure out when they should sweep the floor or what are the plants? This is technology. It's it's worse than making people stupid. It's just making people unable to do anything. Just. They're just signing off. It's just so alarming. And is Google's. Google Pixel 7 is a phone. In a pretty much fake everything world. Now you can duck to your shots. The pictures you take with your phone. Yeah, you can just. You know people you might not like anymore. Take another picture or change. The angle or. Or anything you know, because what is it is, you know, like Boatyard said, it's. It's a copy. Of a copy and there's no reference point. It isn't grounded in anything anymore. It's just it is. He was talking that in the 70s. It's gotten worse. Now you can understand more what he was. Getting at, I think it's, uh. Well, postmodernism is part of it too. But anyway, it's now we're just cut off from. A tie to. Any original or only copies? And copies of copies and copies that you can just manipulate and change so they're even less a copy of anything. You know any tie to actual whatever. Well, we're starting to see the reality of geoengineering. There is a. Startup that says it's begun releasing sulfur particles into the atmosphere. This is in the MIT Technology review. Magazine firm. It's called make sunsets. Yeah, they want to make money for geoengineering.

Speaker 4: And you know, sometimes they slip in. Well, you.

Speaker 3: Know it could be just temporary. We you know, you you could just stop doing it. If it doesn't work. Except for the fact that. That's bloody unlikely, because once you start doing it. There's dependence on that well, so you can stop doing it, I mean. You're hooked in you. You bought the farm and. There will be more of it, not just still, let's just go on to something else. No, it I don't think. It works that way. And various people are already pointing that out, by the way. But there's always the techno fix. Always a chance to make it worse. Well. Saying there's nothing else to do and they always. Put in I. Think every time they put in the course this is no substitute for actually tackling. The disaster that's being reproduced every minute. No. Oh, no, no, of course not. Well, that's precisely what it is. Yeah, there's, there's no going back with this kind of stuff and. Some folks, indigenous communities in northern Sweden, Finland, Russia and Norway. Wants that to be stopped. This is a balloon thing with the sulfur particles. And they're worried, of course they are. Lack of transparency, inclusivity and engagement in the planning process. Wait a minute. You want to be part of the planning process? Part of what seems to be such a bad idea and a desperate. That's what it's this piece of the way implies. If you really want to do that. Well, more on AI. Boy, there's no end to the protests already. And you know 11. Of the colors two weeks ago. Very perceptive. If you can't tell the difference. In in a what's called art in quotes being produced or or. The writing that comes from ChatGPT. Well, maybe that says something about these symbolic. Dimensions that. It's kind of hollow. It kind of never did really. Move the ball. Because it's rapidly taking over like this chat GPTS writing. Writing novels, writing scripts is just a ton of stuff, kind of exploding. On that topic. Yeah, that's kind of a funny one from the verge yesterday. About video games in the dialogue. Anyway, this is it. It doesn't take a machine to write bad prose. Anyway, this person says when I think the bad video game dialogue I've reminded of this tweet. Doesn't matter which tweet, the thinly veiled exposition. The personality quirks is the standard for actual characterization. The stilted and strangely paced delivery. Basically, this is the way no person speaks or has ever spoken. And he says. And yet in most video games, this is how every character comes across, like an alien figuring out how to sound like a human in real time. It's so pervasive that you want to live with it or you press. X to get out. Well, it's going to be worse from the sound of it, it'll be even more thin and kind of vacant and. And people will get used to. It or not, it's same with anything else. There was a piece in the. In the times last week about hit songs. Why so many? Hit songs and the pop music charts this year. Many of the catchers songs were also the catchier songs of 2007 or 1998 or 1987. They're just recycling this stuff. Yeah. The piece is called why it sounds. So why hit song sounds so familiar. Yeah, that's. You need to. Nothing is there's no energy of creation. Well, that's not totally true, but. Fall back on this stuff.

Speaker 4: It's a way to harness.

Speaker 3: Pre-existing star power or familiarity as a proxy for generating your own. Generating your own. When it isn't your own and ChatGPT. You will just deepen that. Sad thing. Oh, here's the here's the twisted thing. From Seoul, South Korea, South Korea has formally lifted a ban on the import of full body sex dolls. After years, the debate of how much the government can interfere in trade or private life. And the photo that came with this. It shows the sex dolls sitting next to a couple of politicians in their suits and ties that were. Passing this new legislation. And you know, if you didn't know the sex dog, it's just a photo and you're not really, really close up. But it it looks like a young woman sitting there, you know, part of the conversation or something. And this is the high tech thing. It's. Gotten more and more. Able to simulate. And it doesn't undermine human dignity. You know, it doesn't further the objectification of women. No, no, no, it's. It's just Andy and. Anyway, it's well. You can roll your eyes about any of this or all of this. There's a couple of startups. I think this is about all. Almost all I got. Maybe I'll save the rest. There are smart home appliances. Based on. The power of detection. To tell when the user in the smart home is asleep or not asleep. So it adjusts the. The controls. Asleep is is 1, just called the. As sleeps, AI technology lets users track the four sleep stages. We know about the four sleep stages. And it's it has devices that have microphones. Such as smart TV, smartphones, etc. Then they can integrate this. And and adjust as needed, because if you're asleep. You may need a lower temperature, I guess, or or what have you. And make sure all the lights are out. I don't know, just. Really just too much for people to handle these days. You know, we just that's that's that's asking too much, you know. Wow. Are are we that? Have you turned into just blobs of? Crap manipulated by the latest. Latest techno fiddle. It sort of looks that way. Whoa, I got one more thing. I just this is just a little backup thing. I just wanted to sometimes. Well, especially on this show, we don't necessarily go back to. Saying what is the basic problem with technology? But you said something from. That was #3 and it has with its the involuntary servitude. Why do we go along so easily with? With domination, you know there should be more resistance, and yet it's very difficult, you know, it's. It's a good question and technology.

Speaker 4: Is quite a.

Speaker 3: Bit on offer here and issue #3. And I just want to quote a little. Piece from Billie Kirkpatrick Fitzpatrick, I'm sorry. It refers to Jackie Lowe's. Super important work on the. Topic mainly from his stellar book The Technological Society.

Speaker 4: And he repeatedly.

Speaker 3: Makes the point that his nightmarish technological determinism does not require malevolent intentions on the part of either the power. Elite or the technocratic managerial classes? And then indeed every person might each turn simply make the seemingly rational, harmless choices of efficiency, while constricting their concentration camp society by inches. In this way, he makes the case for a variation on arents banality of evil thesis. Or the prisoners dilemma of game theory. At times he seems almost jarring. As though the notion. Of a truly malevolent calculating Elite is unnecessarily naive position. While I fully agree with a little the that the automatism of industrial technology means its self enslavement can result from even purely good intentions, his rhetoric at times and necessarily exaggerates the point. Anyway, it goes on in that vein and. And that's that's one way of getting at the heart of it how it proceeds. And now there isn't any way out. Unless you really take the way out and maybe the kids at the. Luddite club in New York, or pointing the right direction. Yeah, we'll be back on the 3rd. Go be here, huh?

Speaker 2: I sure will, absolutely.

Speaker 3: Oh, that's great. And then on the. 10th the Council will be down here from Portland. We get get back on the on that regular schedule. Develop there and stay tuned for. Very excellent two hours. With Carl's music, take care.

Speaker 6: Yo, shut up. This is ice T from body count. You listening to KWVA Campus Radio 88.1 FM number one station in the world. Don't even try to touch that dial. I reached through the speaker, will. Break off your arm out of here.

Speaker 1: That night. I cannot serve my city.

12-20-2022

[audio]

[Recording delayed due to brief power outage.] Hydrogen saviour? Warming in the Anthropocene. Arctic Alaska rivers turn acidic orange. Post-apocalypse novels. Shootings, child homicides: a public health crisis. Trees, crops faiing in U.S. P. 22 L.A. lion meets end. Rewilding news. Strikes, foraging, more on the Luddite Club. Action news, "Uncle Ted's Cabin" (!) Recalls and child labor. Robot vacuum cleaners spying on folks, metaverse failing. One call.

Speaker 1: I was going to take this a complete 180 and take it way back. Obviously you're a. Superstar run, I'm going to say it again. Where did it all start? You grew up in Australia. Where did it all? Start. Where did you find running?

Speaker 2: OK. So there's there's two things I have to say to that. The first one, starting running, my mum will make the argument that I was a 9 1/2 months old and I literally was just crawling around, so I had legs got up and.

Speaker 3: Just that's all the time we have for our regularly scheduled quack snack hour. To hear more of the puddle. Podcast. Just search the Puddle podcast on Spotify or Apple. Music. Thanks for listening. And now please enjoy your regularly scheduled DJ.

Speaker 4: That's right, you're regularly scheduled. DJ is here. Somebody just turn the lights out on us. I don't know what's going on. Maybe we're not moving around enough in here. It's it's anarchy radio. It's winter break. I'll fix the lights in just a minute. Should get the nice Christmas lights here in the in the station so high you're listening to kW, VA, Eugene, we're getting our act together and we have some Brian Eno while we figure out the lighting situation.

Speaker 5: Around me.

Speaker 6: All this is.

Speaker 5: Made of me. They will remain in me, my God. Shine shine. These billion years where they live. These billionaires, million million years within. How then me? That we appear at all. In all this wrong and fire. You know this gas and dust.

Speaker 6: Are we not?

Speaker 5: All to. Live in life to give our life.

Speaker 7: And iradio December 20th. The lights keep going on and off. And you. And the crazy here we are on the eve of the winter solstice. Coming up on the. Christmas weekend. Yeah, that was forever and ever. No more. Two weeks ago, we played some of that. Brian Eno's new album. Yeah, sorry that there won't be Catherine here. In December, due to the COVID thing. 541-346-0645. Well, just another. Quick word, brief word on the whole hydrogen thing. The biggest biggest news. It's been pointed out that even the cleanest types of hydrogen, and there are different kinds. The cleanest of all. Can release nitrogen oxide, which contributes to acid rain. So they're trying to work out these different standards and. Of how much carbon there is. Basically in the hydrogen. So there's a long ways away. It's not the panacea and it's and the whole question of. How much energy is it going to take to get this energy? I mean these these are. Kind of obvious open questions. Meanwhile, in the middle of last week. Arctic warming is 4 times faster than the global average, 7 times faster. Warming up up there in some places in the Arctic. And you know, this is finally kind of stuck. I guess this is on the front page. The New York Times on Sunday. The next epic of Planet Earth is the. Yeah, that's been better drone for a while and I guess it's here to stay. 10,000 years ago? Yep. That's when domestication started. And now we see its fullness. The full out domination of nature. When the Anthro part defines the. What particular? Epic. We're in. Study in the journal Science. The little ways bag estimates. That the planet is losing 9% of its land dwelling insect population per decade. And that percentage is growing. And here's a vivid thing. From high Country news a week ago. Streams and rivers. In Arctic Alaska, once crystal clear are now running bright orange. And turgid. As they become more acidic, and this is because. The iron sediment is leaching out due to the melting permafrost. Meeting up with the iron in the soil. It doesn't happen if it's frozen, but so you got this. Rusty water. Very colorful stuff. Not really what you want to see. It's as if an industrial mine. Has been doing its dirty work for decades. And to some degree, science are confused about this, but it seems fairly straightforward. You have this crazy thing of lights going on and off in here. We have a little bit more than the Christmas lights anyway. And that's. Going to be all right. Well, late last week. Yeah, one more. Summit type thing in Las Vegas. That's the key point to make the annual Colorado or Colorado River Conference where? Officials from 7 states. And other parties get together to. Talk about. The growing shortage of water. With Colorado Rivers largest reservoirs. Nearly three quarters empty. There's a real danger now that the reservoirs could drop so low, the water won't be flowing anymore. Will have what's called a Deadpool. As drought threatens Hoover Dam. You know, there were a couple of in the Sunday New York Times Book Review. There were two reviews back-to-back. They were both both post apocalyptic. That's of course in the air. In recent years, one was called it's called the light pirate by Lily Brooks Dalton. It has to do with the piece that descends. With the return to nature. And solenoid by Mercia Colorescience. Is along the same lines somewhat, so a little bit of A twist on the apocalypse. Kind of a kind of a nice ending to it with these back-to-back reviews on Sunday few days ago. Let's see. Well, today in the News 6 Dead near Toronto at a high rise condo. Six, including the shooter, there was a beef with the condo board, some kind of long, long running. Controversy there. And once again, it isn't just the US. It's been spreading and there's a meek and mild Canada with the with the mass shooting. And on, let's see. This would be last Wednesday. It was said that Amy Anderson, 43, died by suicide early Wednesday morning after she opened fire on cops. At a Bay St. Louise Motel 6. I'm not seeing what town that is anyway. Yeah. Fatally shot 2 cops. And then was killed. By one who returned fire. But the thing it might have been a suicide anyway. Yeah, there are people that shooted cops. Is a scary one. From today, child death by homicide. Soared early in pandemic. Yeah, a precipitous rise. And part of a larger trend, not just the pandemic, not just the COVID thing, but. Now the leading cause of dead kids. Gunfire, the leading cause. And that gave it a jump. Not to say it didn't, but. Yeah, more than just the pandemic going on, that's for sure. Meanwhile, last Friday. There are a whole bunch of doctors. Sending a simple message gun violence is a public health crisis. So MD's are getting in the picture. Trying to push. Controls are made. At least 628 mass shootings so far this year. You know all that stuff, OK? And that I'd mentioned this once or twice, especially in these parts, Oregon and Washington, the vanishing fir trees. For make it or make it get on. I knew I'd miss it. Well, the ash trees in the US and Canada. Going away and that's undercutting. A baskets tradition. From indigenous. That craft need the ashtrays for that. News from. Late last week. And other just other unhealthy stuff crop disease or possibly diseases ravaging the saving as Valley. Lettuce fields. That's where all the lettuce comes from. Down in Central California, the price of. Head of Lettuce is up to like $11.00 in some places just. Pretty amazing.

Speaker 4: Nobody there. There's a freaking ad. It was an ad. It was a robo deal. It was Ashley wanting to know if you need a medical alert bracelet.

Speaker 7: And Adam oh. A robo dealer.

Speaker 0: Ohh man.

Speaker 7: The lights. Maybe the sound a little off here, huh? How do they how? Do they beat it?

Speaker 4: I have no, I mean, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. I've never gotten a spam call here before.

Speaker 7: No, not on the. Air no, huh?

Speaker 4: Well, there you go. I should have put it on.

Speaker 7: Yeah. So tell me more. Nope, that isn't an inaugural of things to come.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 7: Well, in LA, especially in the LA Times, there's been much written about P22. Who is the famous Mountain Lion who was all over the place down there, especially Griffith Park. Yeah, it made people think more about wild places. Maybe even in ourselves. Reminder that, yeah, we're part of nature too and sense so. They had the big run around with P22. He was evading people, he killed the leased up two ohua lately and. They captured him and. And later euthanized him, they claimed berries, diseased and disabled, and so forth. Meanwhile, the story about mountain lions in a Larkspur, Colorado, backyard. Nice pictures of two of them. They looked healthy. And the lights went off again. This is kind of a slow time of year, but there's always news and there may be calls. It's good to be here with Carl. Here's an announcement. Get into some more political type stuff. I'll just quote from it. A group of US anarchists are getting together to write postcards to the Atlanta Forest defenders who are being charged with terrorism offenses. We'll meet tomorrow night. Wednesday at 7:00 at ***. Had 41 W Broadway at downtown Eugene. Invited to show up for that, participants are encouraged to bring a blue or black pen. They will reject anything else coming into the jail and metered postcards for those that are pre stamped available at the post office. But there will be some available. It's a worthy thing, a casual thing. If you planning on having a boring Wednesday evening could go on down there and. And have fun with others. Something that's possibly uplifting, I think to some degree, a couple of things in the nature of rewild news in The New Yorker magazine, the current issue. An article called Second Nature how rewilding in India Re Wilders in India are working to renew environmental destruction. It's a little hard. To put too much stock in this, although these efforts are. Very authentic, but. Given the the mammoth juggernaut of destruction, and it's the severe air pollution, it gets probably the most prominent attention. These are the India, but. Yeah, there are people though that are trying to tackle it and. Yeah, the piece is called second nature and I saw. On public television last night didn't get the name of it, but it's about largely it's about something called rewild Sweden. Because the. Trees are getting logged. In the north in the. So there's a lichen shortage, reindeer. Rely on lichen and everything else is frozen and. Not very green, they they just chill in the lichens, but so that's becoming quite a quite a big problem. But turns out that a large area has been set aside, protected from logging and. On the map, it's considerable. It's not. It ain't nothing. So there's there's a rewilding efforts, it's. Carl is trying to get the lights on. It's up on the ladder. Yeah, well, postal rail worker and nurses. Or on strike across the UK. Yeah, all three groups now since late last week, going at it. And interesting piece about the only legal foraging site in New York City. It's in the South Bronx. And you take the 6th train up. Up the West side, I guess, I don't know. Some 300 people showed up. More than 300 to. Kind of a cool story. It's very small area that you know not. To be confused with something significant in the South Bronx of New York City. But. There's something called Bronx River foodway. So neighbors, young and old. Down on the grassy banks of the Bronx River. To celebrate the end of fall basically and and do some foraging. You know, there's more on the Luddite club. Very good. This is, I don't know what's catching on, but it's it's getting a lot of attention. This is. New York Times on the 15th Thursday. Title as late teens don't want your likes. And the heck of a story. I mean, they're really well read and it's, you know, I've talked about it before a little. Very cool. They really know what they're. Doing and why? And here's a good quote. You know, they they. They all dropped this cell phone thing and some of them have flip phones, but one of them, when the young woman said only thing better than a flip phone is no. Phone at all. So they might be going in an even more. Radical direction and very nice to read about. All right, this is in the Guria, northwestern Italy. Genoa is the big city in the area. On Saturday, November 26th. They slightly overcooked dinner with sort. We set fire to a dozen vehicles. The warehouse and the ventilation system of Mar and Carrasco is fairly near Genoa in Liguria. Yeah, mar. Is one of the worst corporations. Profits from the distribution of food in state prisons. If you can call it food in most places anyway. A nice strike back there. And this is from Chile Santiago. With anarchist attitude, the central offices of Oxicam SA and the municipality of Santiago was attacked. The high priority explosive didn't explode because of a technical problem, but they'll be back. Yeah, chemical industry target there. Should that workout the bugs in La Paz, Bolivia at approximately 3:00 AM on Monday the 12th of December, we placed and detonated an explosive device at the entrance to the Tori Pacifica building. Which is. Where the Italian Embassy is located. In solidarity with Comrade Alfredo Crosbyton on hunger strike for almost two months now. Yeah, it is 2 months now. Yeah, international support. In an active sense. In Hamburg, Germany has announced. Last Wednesday the 14th, it didn't say exactly when it happened. It was announced last Wednesday. They attacked Hertz and take it. That's the rental vehicle outfit. Not only in Greece, Hertz offers favorable conditions. For the uniformed executioners, namely the police and military. But even in the USA, not only the shot in the back of the head of Kostas Fraguas. In Thessalonica, that's part of what they're talking about. And the. And the Roma kid who is gunned down by cops? In Greece, with the again the international solidarity. There's this whole thing about these NEO fascist blockheads going after just really, really revved up by drag shows. And over the weekend. There were efforts to disrupt drag shows. In Brockville ON and in Jacksonville, FL. And they were completely rebuffed. By solidarity with. Gay and trans folks, and it seems like. It's going down. It's a very good source of news. And like I said this before, virtually every single time. The bad guys get their butts kicked so, but the other side of the mouth from Antifa is, oh, what a what, a horrible pressing danger and crisis. And it's all up for grabs. Is it? These clowns just get chased off or worse. I mean, every time it seems like. I don't get it. Is it disconnect there? Maybe somebody could explain that to me. All right, Saturday, December 17th, the Wells Fargo Bank at 24th and Irving in South in the sunset in in San Francisco. In solidarity with the Atlanta Forest Defenders, 5 windows and an ATM. Like that again, we're smashed. Yeah, that's. They're doing something against the arrest of the five. Atlanta folks are, as I said before, busted on. Phony domestic terrorism charges. Yeah, Wells Fargo. They have. They have a consultant who sits on the board of trustees of the Atlanta Police Foundation, so there's the connection there. They're trying to build this great big new cop shop. On the big Atlanta Forest, the. Kind of amazing urban forest. And and they're trying to build this ugly movie studio too. And. So many folks wanted them to leave the forest alone. Well, Speaking of strikes over the weekend, lots of strikes at dustins of Starbucks locations from Seattle to the Midwest. And they're trying to unionize workers United. You know, I saw some of these, some of these groups get affiliated with the UN. You have 0 control. If you're part of that, I mean it just forget about. It you'll find out very soon. You. You. But this worker is united, possibly. A much more independent thing. It might be better, much better in that sense. I'm not too sure. But that's, I don't think that's an AFL-CIO union. Part of the corrupt bureaucratic. Brotherhood of official labor. Something I'd like to find out more about. And on the weekend, the port of. Port Of Montreal. This is an effort to block the port Of Montreal in support of. Indigenous people. Who are still the targets of repressive and genocidal policies? And of course, the port Of Montreal is the. The Center for that Nexus of exploitation. Yeah, I was telling my friend. About this, just an hour or two ago from Raw story that's that's excited, never heard of but. Yesterday at Ross story. And thank you for telling me about this Artemis. This is from a NEO Nazi group which. Tried to. Ramp up of protests against a drag show in southern Pines. Anyway, but the point, the interesting point is that part of their chat board thing, their channel. Is called Uncle Ted's cabin, named in honor of the Anarcho primitivist terrorist Ted Kaczynski. That's what the thing reads. An infiltrator. Let people know more about this a little bit. Yeah, it's strange and. Alfredo told me that some of these outfits have used the photo of Ted Kaczynski. As part of their propaganda, very twisted thing. And then it says then you know, that's what leads into the charge of eco fascist, you know, primitivists and. Other eco anarchists or must be eco fascists because of these creeps who who try to rip this off. It's it's an odd. Really odd. Kind of oxymoron. Kind of a thing. What they would have to do with. Bit of a stretch. When we take a break and.

Speaker 4: More you know.

Speaker 7: Yeah, more, you know, and we'll pray for some continuity with lighting.

Speaker 0: You know.

Speaker 7: All righty. Yeah. Get some tick nails. The Verge reported last Wednesday that Volkswagen. Has given a name for its pain and its software. This has to do with its ease. Their electric vehicles are plagued with software problems. Which is. A big problem is also a set back for their next generation Trinity project. Let's see things get more complex, more problems. Meanwhile, a pioneer of virtual reality. This is reported on the weekend in the New York Times VR pioneer, leaving Meta John Carmack, Carmack. Who started up Oculus? It was like the pioneer. VR out outfit. He has decided that the metaphors project is a mess and that they're not. Listening to him. Yeah, kind of the whole thing, the whole thing. It's such a sewer. Yeah, sort of scumbags like. Musk, obviously. Well, here's an example of this reaches. Out into culture, I'm afraid. This is also in the Friday. December 16th, New York Times quote a museum's Daydream of progress is in the arts section of the paper. It has to do with Rafiq. On adults unsupervised, this is a big show. At the mat unsupervised. It's a big wave, like a bunch of images on a wall. Created by software of chorus. It looks like a screen saver, some kind of. But it's big. And the piece is not completely uncritical. The reviewer says it's as if AI can do our hallucinating and dreaming for us. Isn't that exactly at the heart of that for us, you don't have to. Think of right or. Create or anything you just. Any sort of? Them out while you're staring at some. Some Daydream progress. What kind of progress is that? We had two Primo calls last week. I'm not sure we're going to get it tonight, but. The lines are open, 541-346-0645. All right, I forgot. Sorry, Ashley, I, I mean, it's not be there.

Speaker 4: What about Ashley or whatever?

Speaker 7: Oh, it's ringing, or it's flashing, or it's doing something over here. Yeah. I was about to say something about the letter club. One more thing about that to tasty. Yeah, I guess the comments going through.

Speaker 4: We have Artemis here.

Speaker 7: Oh, good. Oh, good. Thank you. Yeah. What's happening?

Speaker 8: Not, you know, not too much. I wanted to say. I appreciate you talking about the article. And when I said when I saw that they were basically trying to conflate this, you know, neo-Nazi organization with primitivism. I thought that was just the funniest thing because, you know, you realize it's not just the left that does it, it just. You know, mainstream media grasping at straws. Be like, whoa, they use this one dude in the most appropriate of way. They're basically primitive.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Gee, yeah. You never know what's going to come across. Pretty crazy.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I want to talk about this, this conversation I'm having with some people. It's in this primitivist, like online forum. They're talking about Rewild Portland. And at a recent post we had inviting. This person by the name of telling, I think that's how you say his name is an artist and activist of some kinds. He's spelled. And they're saying so, rewilding or not so much. And I was a little confused. So I said, you know, how does talking about cultural trauma and such not relate to rewilding? And this person said, well, talking about rewilding is really just a way or talking about cultural trauma is just a way of, you know, fixing people for civilization has nothing to do with. And and I just find it interesting because I find a. Lot of people. Maybe a lot of primitivists maybe come at it from this macho they're rewilding is just like almost a conquest of nature in some way. You know what I mean? It's very unempathetic and the continued. And they're talking about renewal in Portland, and it reminded me of your your, you know, your issues with people because you got vaccinated and you're like, hey, maybe it's not a bad thing. And this person, well, I'm not. You know, I'm not going. To be a cop and see who it is. But. Say Rewild Portland has been heading toward status authoritarian liberalism for the past several years. They banned the unvaccinated from their primitive, skilled gathering and its mode of mask wearing and social distancing. When all of the other skill gatherings, what everyone decided what they wanted to do, why do. You think that? Seems people like this are just so. ******* dumb.

Speaker 7: It's the F word. Yeah, it's it's.

Speaker 8: Oh no.

Speaker 7: Very frustrating. Yeah, it's just. It's just people living losing a sense of proportion people. Otherwise you'd think it would. You know, their share. You know, they they know that. And yet they yet they trip on these stupid things like that and and inflate the heck out of it. You can just you know what they're they'd like to get even more explicit probably. But that's a mouthful, yeah. Statist, authoritarian. What was it? I mean, just wow. Because you'd rather. Not get sick and die like the millions that we have already. And you know all these people, by the way, those those people, I I get tons of stuff. People keep saying this stuff and all of these things have one thing in common. They never once mentioned millions of people have and are suffering and dying. They go into this whole discourse and somehow they leave that out. What could be more? That's that means nothing to them. I mean, that's. Just part of it, but anyway.

Speaker 0: OK.

Speaker 8: Yeah. And I find it's one of those that's like, oh, well, we're primitivists. And I understand being skeptical. A certain thing. I understand what's coming from from some people, and it almost are, like, recreating the left wing. If you're primitivist, then why do you have a phone? It's almost like the same kind of argument, but from, like. Primitivist themselves in a weird way, like, but they're also picking and choosing and not to be that person. But if you're going to say, well, you can't get if you get vaccinated, your fake previous but you. Tell me that over a phone.

Speaker 9: But I'm not quite following.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the way.

Speaker 7: I don't have a phone but but So what? I mean that. You make you're starting out with the with the totally silly ad hoc thing. You know that that's just, it doesn't really hold up, you just think. I don't know. I'm I'm getting a sad sense of the, you know, the overarching. Dumbness of it all, I mean, there was this piece, this is this is really a stretch. Here. I'm, I'm confess already, but Céline Dion and all this stuff about K pop, that's music that makes you stupid. It's bad music and now it's just thrilling people. I think that somehow has to do with. This you know. This they really dumb things. Why is that? What what happened to you? Did you bump your head or did the entire culture bump its head or? It just makes me nuts.

Speaker 8: Yeah. And I just it's so strange because I wonder how many of these people perhaps were, if you remember, was it Canada with the trucker rally because they didn't want to get vaccinated. I think it was. I wonder how many of them were secretly like, these are the good guys. In this situation.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, these are odd things. And yeah, you got to got to put.

Speaker 6: A little more.

Speaker 7: Deeply and kind of correct the message, and I'm grateful for that. Anonymous. Thank you for calling man.

Speaker 8: Yep, you have a good one.

Speaker 7: Me too. Well, I yeah, I did want to get in one more thing about the this letter club. I don't want to beat it to death here, but. Is a piece called spreading the word of the Luddite gospel, and it makes it sound like it's a. A big crusade. It is about those New York teams. It what's it? Unemployed life and. It's just just pick one thing out of this, this piece, a popular book, is into the wild. That book about Chris McCandless. Who went off into the Alaskan wilderness? Unfortunately, he died because he wasn't prepared to. Really deal with. But that's one of the books that these kids like a lot. And here's the quote we will get this thing that we're not just meant to be confined to buildings and work. And that guy was experiencing life real life. Social media and phones are not real life. It's not well said. Yeah, Speaking of knowing their share, they really do. Here's a little twist on the solar deal in California. In the LA Times last Thursday, California sharply reduced incentive payments for rooftop solar power. Really hammering a program that has helped 1.5 million homes and businesses put solar panels on the roofs. Well, it turns out that people have been pointing out that. Solar results in higher electric bills for households that don't have solar.

Speaker 6: They didn't have the panels and.

Speaker 4: Thereby I have to pay a bigger bill.

Speaker 7: Including lower income families who can't afford that. So I don't know how that unforeseen consequence actually works. To tell you the truth, but that just pulled the rug out. From under it, California big leader in. So-called eco stuff, including, you know, big seller thing. Meanwhile, Subaru in the middle of last week recalls 271,000 SUV's. Due to fire risk, it's a wiring defects they're telling people. Brick, your silver is outside at the curb. Don't put them in the garage. All of the. Lithium batteries that tend to catch fire. And various teams. I know. Manufactured here in Alabama, there are Hyundai and Kia. Parts suppliers and the renters that found out that they got Ken's work in there. So you only got the recalls, you got child labor. Yeah, what a happy. Forward-looking industry that is. And just today, news of another Takata airbag fatality. That's been going on for years. It it seems like they're pretty much the only. Airbag crash thing that manufacturers you only hear about that one. I mean, I don't know why people. Everybody doesn't shift to some other one. If there was another one anyway. We've been having problem with ours. The light goes on telling you there's something wrong with the airbag thing anyway, that's. Yeah, literally Earth and it's still inspiring. Still still loves the problem. With the latest person dies because if they get behind the wheel, the thing. Goes off and. They're dead. Well, like Obama said, there's any range of of kind of nutty stuff. This is from the Verge the other day. Because the Verge is probably the number one. Outfit that hypes the high tech stuff and wants to peddle everything they they flog every gadget you can think of and. And more generally, promotes the high tech future. This is a piece I think I said yesterday. And her name is Zara Biabani. I think is American. And she's referred to as this climate activist, is revolutionizing the conversation on global warming. Revolutionizing the conversation with global well, she's an entrepreneur selling quote, sustainable fashion. Yeah. And that really gets to the heart of it, that really revolutionizes the discussion about global warming. That is so idiotic that just it's insulting even to the the techno nerds who swallow all the bird stuff. That's just out there somewhere. Well, one more thing this was posted. Friday as an attack. Sal CEO is an outfit owned by Atlas Technical Consultants, and they're involved in this cop city project in the Atlanta. Urban forest. We have the lots of vandalized, the front windows of the Oakland. CEO, Office and solidarity with those forest defenders. Happening in so-called Atlanta. It was easy. We shoplifted super glue from a convenience store and glass etching cream for an arts and crafts store. We found the squeezable condiment container with etching cream and waited for a quiet night to make our move. We permanently etched hands. Off Atlanta Forest on the front glass doors and any circle lay on the windows. For good measure, a small act of revenge for the recent raid. On Lee forest defenders. The 9th creative stuff. Well, you know. Maybe I should have. Type in a little. More with Artemis. He always has so much. To say but I. Think this may be the last thing. This is about I robot from Amazon. It's the biggest. Robotic vacuum cleaner maker things gets around. You know you can just give it orders and it'll. Clean your rug all over the place. Well, it turns out that I robot has been recording its customers. Including on the toilet. This is incredible, yeah. Amazon recently acquired I, robot, for the tune of 1.7 billion. There you go. Yeah. It's supposed to be a vacuum cleaner, but it's. Oh man, this is so nutty. These images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. Some kind of special thing with the robots. It's just. Yeah, this is the whole thing about smartphones. You're weird. You you're just not only you give away all the information in social media, maybe, but you. Then you make your house smart, which is just to feed a surveillance feed. If you, if you haven't noticed that, I mean. The piece this is a nice piece because it's called a. Keep it down home. Thanks. Very nice. Yeah, I. Yeah, posted by posted to Facebook. Congratulations on your luxury surveillance apparatus in a few. Minutes going to be. Spying on you in the bathroom or whatever it is. Yeah, I'll keep a demo. Thanks. Very good. Very nice. Yeah, we'll be. On the 27th, we're not letting excellence. We were in our broadcasts and yeah, that goes for Carl's excellent show. Stay tuned for that. And thanks for listening. I think we're going to. Have a little more. Ryan, you know? Yeah. Cool. Take care.

Speaker 6: To go.

Speaker 5: All the roads through time.

Speaker 6: We leave the world's love. There were. The sky was shot with light.

Speaker 5: Early days, all the days turned into world.

Speaker 6: There were horns as loud as war that tore apart the sky. There were storms and floods of blood.

Speaker 5: Never mind my love. Let's wait for the fly back to tell us there's a showing. There were those who ran away. There were those who had to stay.

Speaker 9: I you I'll go closer. You come closer. We grow closer. Ah. You are. Go closer. You go closer. We grow closer. You come closer, we grow closer.

Speaker 0: Say it again.

Speaker 9: To start something fish. It's trying to grow, grow. Everyone's trying to grow, grow. It break it.

12-13-2022

[audio]

The "promise" of nuclear fusion (?) To keep doing what should've never begun. Environment crashing, accelerated ruin on all fronts. Ads of the week: Samsung (Let's Go Outside...VR) and Boston University (Data Reigns). BBC's Burn Wild series(?) Resistance reports. Girl Scouts tout 5G for merit patch. "Living Off the Land," Kayla Sulak. Elon Musk booed off SF stage. :What Twitter Does to our Sense of Time (12-13 NYT). AI Art, ChatGPT replace human creativity, artists hail luddites. Two calls.

---

Transcript

Speaker 1: I meant that I was 9 1/2 months old and I literally was just crawling around so I had legs, got up and.

Speaker 2: That's all the time we have for our regularly scheduled quack smack hour to hear more of the Puddle Podcast, just search The Puddle Podcast on Spotify or Apple Music. Thanks for listening and now please enjoy your regularly scheduled DJ.

Speaker 3: People of the planet Earth. This is bird stuff from the band man or Astro man. Whenever we're forced to play secondary or even tertiary markets, small cities like Eugene OR we listen to 88.1 FM KWVA. New Gen 550 Watt.

Speaker 4: You're listening to KWVA Eugene, where it is 7:00 o'clock and time for anarchy radio. Here in the studio with John today. And it's just us where it's like all alone on campus the number is 5413460645 for anybody that wants to. Keep U.S. We're going to get settled and play a little tune from Peregrine. I just realized what this was. OK, let's go.

Speaker 5: Oh God.

ZERZAN: Yes, it's the December 13th version of Anarchy Radio. A little bit of Kevin Tucker there and his friends. Where are you, Kevin?

Speaker 6: Catherine is.

ZERZAN: Going to be here tonight. She was aboard the train in Portland, but it didn't leave Portland, it clipped the back end of this semi. Just minutes into the trip and she was stuck on the train for three hours while they tried to figure out if they could safely proceed if they could go South. On the rails, but but they came back to the station, then by then it was too late to figure out how to. Get down here in time so. We're going to get back. On the. Regular second Tuesday of the month next month, January. Oh, it's the coldest, darkest time. Of the year. Well, literally next week a week from now, it's winter solstice. And let's see a week from tomorrow, whether tomorrow, a year ago tomorrow. I'm trying to say Ted Kaczynski was transferred from the maximum joint. The federal joint in southern Colorado to a federal prison hospital in North Carolina. So he's survived just about a year. Exactly, and he was kind of. Signing off, he didn't think he'd be around much longer, but he still is. Uh, let's see. Remind me to call Mother Bartimus. Or somebody else. And or somebody else? As Carl says, 5413460645.

Speaker 6: Well, a little.

ZERZAN: More on farmageddon. All the fir trees. In Oregon, in particular, dying off. This is the new Sunday 1.1 million acres of dead furs worst ever in the 75 years of. That's sort of recording quite the blight, and it's not the only tree species being stressed. Going to have a call already. I do believe.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we have Todd. I think you must talk about AI art. Oh all right?

Speaker 4: Let me let me get the right button.

Speaker 6: Thank you have that hello Todd.

Speaker 4: Here we go.

Speaker 5: Hey hey John, how are you?

ZERZAN: Good good what's happening.

Speaker 5: Well, I have been, I'm sure I don't know how closely you've been following this, but you know, in the last few months these AI art. Algorithms have just been accelerating really rapidly, and you know over the last. I would just say in the last three weeks, you know you're really starting to see an organized backlash. By visual artists and some of them are interestingly, rallying the Luddites. There was a big thread thread on Twitter today by this artist Molly Crabapple that has hundreds. You know, 10s of thousands of likes, lots of people, commenting where she's making an argument that you know the Luddites are really not something to be ashamed of. That this was an organized movement of skilled people who. Who felt they were, you know, being marginalized and their livelihoods were threatened. And and we're also looking at something more profound, and she's basically rallying visual artists to do the same. To say that these these AI algorithms need to be stopped and that they that people should not deal with companies that. Just them and I'm just seeing lots of videos on YouTube because they're these artists who have communities and they're they're kind of rallying, you know, and they're people. Talk and it's it's sad too. There's a lot of people talking about suicide. If you can believe it, you know giving up their art. You know it's really getting to a point, and so I just wanted to let you know that and think about.

Speaker 6: Man, yeah.

Speaker 5: Maybe there's an opportunity here, and here's where it comes in, where I've been channeling you, you're writing a little bit is I've been arguing with people on Twitter a little bit, and I've been telling them, you know, maybe your stand shouldn't be at the level of art. You know, maybe you need to step back and say, maybe maybe. Part of the problem. Is that art itself is a little compromised and the the ease that the computers have in mimicking your art maybe says something and it's hard for them to see this, but about the the the some of the inadequacy of visual art. And maybe the fact that computers are taking down this kind of the one part of symbolization which was supposed to be impenetrable. Table is a moment for people to think more profoundly about these deeper questions about civilization and symbolism. So I wanted to. See if you. Thought maybe there's a way for for people who are interested in those ideas to kind of use this moment to tell people to not make their stand only at. The level of art.

ZERZAN: Wow, that gets into deeper waters. Yeah, it suggests that that could be an order as well at some point because the the obvious part is where is individual creativity. If the machine does it and and. And maybe can't distinguish that product from what you're doing. And then you get into the second part of what you bring up here. Representation itself is that when is that really carried the ball? I mean, it's. You see how you know immemorial arts can save us and. Art like the the word Earth, the three little letters are art as if that's going to save the Earth. And it hasn't. Of course, it just deepens the problems. And on one level that's for sure. Yeah, that’s, it's something else. It's really and right hand in hand with that is this. Chat GPT, you probably noticed that as well. It was, you know, there was a piece in the New York Times on Friday.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

ZERZAN: The brilliance and weirdness of chat GPT, which can write to jokes, essays, texts you know, and so forth so. Not only the artist but the writers are up against it. Once you get the. This so-called machine learning going it isn't actually learning, but it's you know it produces something that's done. It's used and that tells you something about the culture, that's it. What's going on with that? It's what you say.

Speaker 5: It is, it is. John, I think it is getting a little scary because I know for a long time you know. And I’ve listened. To your program. And you're right, you know. People have said, well, the AI it's not going to be as as successful as we think. You know it's going to have these limitations. It's only you know. Mimicking and I think part of the reason this chat BGP T is unsettling. Along with the AR is people are starting to come to the conclusions that it is novel. You know that it comes up with novel solutions very quickly and that it it has a certain intelligence they don't quite know what how to frame it because it's you know it. It is still. It's still like an elaborate. You know. It's still just a linear regression. You know you. Know what I mean it? It's sort of just at the end of the day. That intelligence it's just solving a multivariable formula, but it does seem to have this novelty to it, and I think people are scared like they've never been.

ZERZAN: Well yeah, the the people that push that are always tempted to make all these claims and promises, I mean, but it's a as you say, it's it's really the basic algorithmic level. It's it knows patterns. It can mimic patterns, reproduce them and manipulate them to some degree for sure. And then you get. Something like what? Well, you know, like say had done a TV show. It doesn't take it, you know incredible. Individuality to write that sort of stuff so and it and once again it tells you about the the thinness and the dumbness of the culture. And not just that, but you know deeper.

Speaker 5: Well, here's where here's where it gets scary.

ZERZAN: Stuff than that.

Speaker 5: I agree with you that like it's nothing that produces as beautiful or right necessarily or better than humans in isolation. But what people are starting to realize is they can kind of. Link things up. You know one of the things that it does very well is it writes computer code which is interesting. It writes computer code better than a human language. If you can believe it, like it, it it developed an act for that. And So what that means is that it's going to accelerate the degree to which people can write complex software, because they're just going to kind of. If that makes sense, like give the computer that each individual step tell it to write the code for that step, and so in a couple of hours you could write an elaborate program that would have to. And you much longer if that makes sense. So it's it's. I don't think. It's going to. It doesn't like have this mind of its own that can like take a problem. And solve the whole thing. Yet, but it's going to accelerate everything. I think very quickly.

ZERZAN: Yeah, it's part of the current. It's part of the accelerating thing and it it affects everything. That's it's the speed of it all and the. And people are used to the shortcuts. You know it's supposed to be, well, we are conditioned to to various degrees. To to make that leap. You know it's just it stands in for what was something more, uh? Particular and specific, and now it's it's becoming. Standardized and like like everything else, so where can you see the difference? I mean and one of my favorite quotes is you probably know I've heard. Anyway, Alan Turing in 1950 writing in the journal Mind. He he predicted in 50 years, which will be passed across that, the problem won't be so much that machines can. Let's copy us, but the distance between. I mean.

ZERZAN: But we'll be copying the machine. We'll be, you know. It's not the machine, it's it's the poverty of the of a more standardized culture under the brain of computers. You know that's what he was afraid of, and that's exactly what's happened. You know that.

ZERZAN: I think it's a large to to a larger degree.

Speaker 5: And I think you know what is interesting is I've been kind of captivated at the way that people are using the. Rhythms because what is interesting is that the the the air algorithms.

Speaker 6: Actually do give.

Speaker 5: You some more profound insights into nature? Oddly enough, because in order to produce the AI, you know they have to. The algorithms have to learn about the way light moves and space and microscopic things, and you would think that. It would be an opportunity for people to learn more about themselves or nature or physics and kind of, you know, find out the things that the AI is trying to teach you about the world or about you know nature, if that makes sense, but instead. Or just using it to make like advanced computer. You know, silly graphics of anime and video game art, and it's produced these. You know what one of the things that AI art does, and the way people use it, which is interesting is the A art has a lot of trouble and I know this is a theme is of for simplicity for silence. You know it's not then. Every airc uses every single inch of the page. With these elaborate you know Arabic. You know geometries, it's always expanding. It can't deal with simplicity.

Speaker 6: Right, right?

Speaker 5: And and so that's kind of the way humans are going to be is, you know, it's humans are going to be, and they are. Are you just going to work? You know, in this type of production to just produce mass and mass of content and material it's going to. Get out of control. I think very quickly.

ZERZAN: Well, it's going that way. I mean, in the door note called it referred to it as the bustle, you know, the business. You just have to. Produce and conquer everything and the directness is gone. You know you, you, the way you, you know, commune with nature is to commune with nature, not through a machine. I mean, that’s anyway, that it gets into a lot of interesting things. Todd, I appreciate your call very much. It's a great way to.

Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and I I, I hope you will think more about.

ZERZAN: Kick off the show here.

Speaker 5: I do think there's an opportunity now for this to think more to to expose people to this critique of art itself.

ZERZAN: Yeah, there you go. There you go, let's hope. Let's push that. Take care man. Well, let's see get a little more environmental stuff. We can sneak in here. The Keystone Pipeline you remember that? Getting the oil down from Canada. The worst kind of it actually from the tar sands in particular. Perfectly safe and all these people whining and wringing their hands about well, this is the story on Friday, the Keystone Pipeline system was shut down by an operator TC Energy after an oil spill released an estimated 14,000 barrels. Into a Creek in Washington County, Kansas. And it would happen, and it's probably happening more than. We know about. Boy, the mass extinction news. Very recent UN report talking about the this what's in the news? A little bit. Now is the. Montreal climate summit. Dealing with the well, it's called Conference of the Parties of the Convention of Biological Diversity or COP 15. Unlike the other COP. 27 This is, yeah, it's all about biodiversity. And the some of the reading on this. It's oh, it's going to be just so momentous. The fate of the entire living room will be determined in Montreal, Canada. What not? And that follows a recent UN report that showed not a single target from the summit's previous 2010 agreement has been met. Not even one. Just like the other COP thing, the even bigger than this one. And even at least as phony. Yet some people just need it up. They're just, oh boy, it's going to. Be so important. It's just it's monumental. Fraud is what it really is. Except it's it isn't fraudulent in the sense that you can find out the results. So have they met any of these lofty goals? These targeted to cuts in emissions and so forth. No, never. So it's quite insane. And part partly to this from the International Union for Conservation of Nature's. Updated Red List of threatened species. There's a mouthful anyway. This the IUCN talking about some 15150 species. They're right on the verge of extinction. And the switch gears are a little bit. You know this whole thing about work. The value of work, the meaning of work in your life. All that is, is still. Hanging around and. Todd was making the point that perhaps this opens on to deeper questions the deeper questioning. Well, this is from RC. From the Daily Mail last Thursday. Almost a quarter of a million young people. This is the UK currently not working. Say they never plan to get a job. So forth poll of 18 to 24 year olds found that a staggering 227,000 youngsters. Currently out of a job we're not studying claim they never intend to enter the labor market. Oh, that's pretty significant. And when that happens, release the.

Speaker 6: Some people need it.

ZERZAN: Yeah and well, let's see. One other environmental thing. From yesterday's New York Times, India puts growth before climate. Because they've got to compete in the world system and power. Energy is the prime value.

Speaker 6: Well, I was last.

ZERZAN: In India 10 years ago 2010. In lot in many of the more northern parts of. India to say the least can't breathe the air. Is way worse a decade later? Now it's just a it literally. You can't breathe there. You can't let children be breathing that air, for example. And not only kids. It's kind of staggering this is what the machine. Produces and thrives on. And another OK thing. This is also via. Richard in the Daily Mail last Thursday locate is worst in the world for diabetes. Rise in the young. Type 2 diabetes. Have quadrupled since 1990 quadrupled. That's not that long ago. Worst in the world so. India isn't the only problem. Problematic place. And the work thing. A little more on that. Let's see, this is from money watch. And the findings from the Federal Reserve of Boston. Their economics department of trend. That they've been president for decades? Why have so many men? This is the US, of course. Why have so many men given up on the idea of holding? Down a job. Yeah, the name. Of the piece, why have so many American men given up on work? Yeah, corresponding to that. Peace from the UK. That's kind of major news. And the I don't know, possibly somewhat related. This is from the New York Times last Friday. American men are unsatisfied with how many friends they have. That survey found the uptick in loneliness predates the pandemic, but seems to have accelerated in the past several years. So giving up on. Work and but having. Few friends that's been noticed since the 80s. The downward trend of. People socializing, not just men, but the average number of friends people have. Taking a big drop. And fairly short order. Let's see, I forgot who sent me this, but there's a new film from England. All the lonely people. Yet again, more on isolation and loneliness.

Speaker 6: If I'm sharing.

ZERZAN: A lot in the hidden pandemic of loneliness. Feature stories from people in Shropshire and Birmingham. The middle part of England. A little notes of linen. And once again, the health effects. UK's Heather Osborne said. Researchers said loneliness can be bad for you as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It has an impact on. Heart disease and other things. While hearing the era of mass shootings. It was reported today. Three dead northwest of Rome, 6 dead. In rural Australia, Speaking of mass shootings? Well, they got a ways to catch up to the USA 600 mass shootings in the US so far this year. Well, less than a month ago. But and that's again it's defined by. When four or more people are. Killed with firearms. We had a wonderful evening at Sam Bond. 's Not the last Sunday of the month because I think the last Sunday of the month is Christmas or very close to it. So we got that Sunday evening and Fern Tom said. Gave a great presentation. Very interesting. And her experiences in education, including owning and education projects. Very good discussion. Yeah, that was a that was a winner. We we continue on with the. Monthly so-called book club. She just she co-authored a book on the nature of the university and in the time of crisis. And we're going to go back to the last Sunday of the month. Sunday evening of the month in January and we don't know who. We will be the speaker, but there will be I'm sure. I'm sure a good one. Well, let's see. We could we could put in a. Music break right now.

Speaker 4: We got some Marianne faithful.

Speaker 8: Born in 1938. A Goodyear for the right he could not participate. She didn't have the right. Was fatherless? Now it's 1966 Andrew's up to all his tricks, and when Brian Jones is near, Nicole doesn't feel so great she's. In the ship. No, she's just today. Yes, today is gone. Yesterday is just today. Now it's Andy Warhols, time Mystic 60s on a dime though she kinda likes you. Doesn't really have the need. Ready in the shade? So she's innocent and now she doesn't know. What it is? She wants and where she wants to go and where. Yes, she's in the shade. She is in a sense, there's just today. Yes today is born. Yes, pleasure together. Today there's just today. There's just today.

ZERZAN: And faithful, yes indeed. Well, there's a series going on at BBC called Burn Wild. I don't know how many people have heard of that with the producer. From UK was over here. And I caught a couple of episodes yesterday. The first one, sort of by accident. I thought I was getting episode 5. But I actually got episode 7. The whole thing is has it #5 on it. So if you're looking for a certain one.

Speaker 4: We got a call. Yeah we have Artemis on the line. OK thanks Carl.

ZERZAN: Hello my friend.

Speaker 9: Hey, how's it going?

ZERZAN: Pretty good, pretty good.

Speaker 6: There is blue metal.

Speaker 9: What's that? It said it's been a? Since I last called in.

ZERZAN: Yes, yes, you're no longer a regular. How are you?

Speaker 9: I'm doing well. I wanted to to give a call not just, but what we emailed. But Todd touched on a lot and you mentioned the chat GPT AI just today giving my final. A student says I want to turn and turn in my paper and said all right, you were done quick shows it to me and I'm like this is really good. Notice some really like some strong structural problems, but I'm like these are common. Oh yeah, I didn't write it and a I did. I'm just messing. I have my actual one I. Looked at it, I couldn't tell wow. And he he did it, he just put in the prompts for the essay that I posted.

Speaker 6: But that was it.

ZERZAN: So it's simple, wow.

Speaker 9: Yeah, it's a free website. You just sign in and you put in any prompts and he said five paragraphs, which was my expectation. Cite it this way and it did it.

ZERZAN: Oh, there it is. Folks available on geez. And what what grade is this?

Speaker 9: These were my seniors. Yeah, so it's funny. I made a joke, I was like, oh God forbid I made you handwrite this and they're like you couldn't read my handwriting. I haven't written anything in years. I was like, oh, stop, don't tell me that.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9: My students are one to one with computers, meaning every student has a a Chromebook that's given to them and we are encouraged to. To have them use it, because I can only print X amount of copies in a month, so it's like they forced me to. Do it to use it. So I just it's crazy you had an interesting discussion on the use of technology and that stuff in the classroom after everything was done. And it's really nice to be able to have that with outside of. Political with my students, you know it was a really cool cool situation. I had one student say this is just the future of writing and someone turned and said weren't you the person that complained about AI stealing art? How is this any different and he said, well, it just. I love that argument. It just is.

ZERZAN: Yeah, well, that's the bottom line to everything, isn't it really the inertia? You can have all the arguments, but there it is. Yeah, that's the sad part. Of it.

Speaker 9: Just you know, I was thinking about that and then he mentioned as I might as well to add to the cynicism. Another thing is, I appreciate you mentioning the anti technology is not dead scene that dropped. I want to point out that that's from SCIV distro. They're an anti SIV anticolonial. Outlet, and they're they're awesome. I curated all the essays but they were awesome enough to turn it into a Zine form and distribute it. So shout out to them.

ZERZAN: Yes, it was great to make that discovery. I hadn't heard of that project. Yeah, nice job on that. It's lovely to have something so strong and jump out.

Speaker 9: I was just surprised to see it's it's. It's almost like old style artwork and design. The aesthetic of it, reminding me of old. Scenes that I have. So I thought it was really to do that. So again I wanted to thank you for giving that shout out. It's it's they appreciated it. I appreciated. It as well.

ZERZAN: Very good stuff man yeah.

Speaker 9: And I also think you might find this funny. I've been reading some old green anarchy copies and I was reading and I think it's #18 that focuses on class struggle and I was during my during my off period. And I wanted to send it to a friend, but they don't have. A phone, so I just used the school. Copier to make copies? Yeah, I'll say hopefully no one. No one should see this, but.

Speaker 6: Good work.

Speaker 9: Thank you so yeah I shot you the e-mail a couple of days ago. I've had some friends that are. Let's start just a general kind of radical environmentalist primitivist book. Get people interested. And so I wanted your input. I've been talking to Kevin and I had this idea of your people. History of civilization would be easily one of them, because I think it's one of the most successful. But non dogmatic primitivist touch to some people they write, you know they write very like oh, here's all the assumptions you should be operating on and you just so you know it's people's history.

Speaker 6: Oh, thank you.

Speaker 9: It's meant to be accessible as in Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. That's a personal cult favorite of mine, and students read it. I have it on my bookshelf I've had. Two students read it this semester. And they love it.

ZERZAN: Oh wow, that's great and I won't you probably heard if you did hear the at the top. The reason why Catherine isn't here the train accident. So she was tuned into that question. What books would you recommend? It gets going on the brain group thing like that, and unfortunately she's not there tonight to answer that. But yeah, that's. Yeah, there's there's some very good stuff out there. Quite a lot of. It really it's. Oh gosh no. I'm blanking on the.

Speaker 6: The guy that in.

ZERZAN: The late 90s wrote, oh, Paul Shepherd Paul Shepherd.

Speaker 9: Right?

Speaker 6: Right?

Speaker 9: Of loudness by Tucker, which made a lot of things clear to me. The wildness versus wilderness. Things confusing and Tucker made it really clear, so hasn't that. As like a follow up. And even having. A row does even a green energy. I think it was a collective one. It was like reclaiming thorough for anarchism like his essay Walking Meditation. I find super important to myself.

ZERZAN: Yes, oh, a big big favor of mine, yeah?

Speaker 9: So I don't know. I didn't wanna put you on the spot to be like now. Take some books and. It's something that I heard that also. I hope she was OK. And that you know no one was hurt.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah it was just a little upsetting and she didn't want to miss the show, but she wasn't injured. In fact nobody was injured.

Speaker 9: That's good.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah, I hope that gets going. There is and. You know, I would imagine people who who. Are interested will. The recommended. Probably right away or more or less.

Speaker 9: Yet it's really interesting that suddenly I've just found other clear, particularly clear interval primitivists all of a sudden, some of you have been following some of my writing. They were sent me, listened to the Doctor Steve's podcast and sent it alongside Doctor Steve's resources to her professor who was teaching the old 12,000 years Clovis culture. Everyone was Clovis somehow. Across the whole hemisphere, and she sent my podcast. And the professor was like, Oh well, I have a masters. I know what I'm talking.

ZERZAN: Oh sorry.

Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's fine. I'll send me some about the professor. It turns out they go to the university. That's five. Minutes away I was like, whoa. Go there and so we're connecting and we're actually hoping to start the scene. Journal inspired mostly by species trader and green anarchy called plastic in utero. A little bit of a Nirvana reference, but also the words of.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9: Plastic is in people's uteruses and infants before they're born, right. So we're hoping to do something like that. Hopefully get started when they did a winter break. Hopefully get something like that going.

ZERZAN: Wow, that's marvelous. I love the wording on.

Speaker 9: That yeah, I'm excited and we also have some really pathetic indigenous friends who are hoping that as green anarchy did again to reference is the indigenous resistance. They're really excited to try and get. They're always interested. They see like primitivism in their view of. The non non-native centered reimagination and so. Like when I told him about Anarcho primitivism, he was a yell like that's what people that are not my people need. It's a story. It's a hit that people can connect to, and so he is excited to be a part of the project. It's all suddenly coming together very quickly. It's almost overwhelming. I'm like God, it's.

ZERZAN: Andy news yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that, that's great.

Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, all right I'll I won't check that takes up anymore of your time and I appreciate it. Hopefully next time she's on or if she can e-mail me you can e-mail me. I think getting anymore book recommendations that I might be overlooking would be awesome so.

ZERZAN: OK yeah, very good. Take care.

Speaker 6: All right?

Speaker 9: You too.

Speaker 6: Bye bye wow.

Burn Wild

ZERZAN: Couple of super high quality cars. Well, I was saying something about the Burn Wild series, which starts out talking about the ELF. There was an interview with Joseph Debb who just came in from the cold and. Yeah, Ford and I were hopeful about this because the two people that were doing it seemed to have a genuine curiosity about all these. Things they don't know. They weren't super informed about some things, but then. Anyway, I happen to by accident, listen to episode 7.

And I don't want to get into a bunch of weeds on this but Chelsea Gerlach. This episode was a kind of love fest between her and her FBI prosecutor who sent her away for 9 years. And I had a lot of trouble with that, how wonderful, how marvelous to have dialogue and I don't think certainly not in this episode, and I'm betting that not in any other subsequent episodes that they touch on the fact that there are people where Jessica, like lives who are not real keen, not advising toward a loving embrace of somebody who ratted out other people. That somehow went missing in the story of her and this is an issue that I think has died down. I don't think there there were actually physical fights over this maybe a year or two ago or something like that.

Is it a good idea to trust somebody who's a proven snitch and who doesn't have any problem with having been a snitch? Have you ever heard of security culture? I mean, it's not like we want assumes that you know all of these people or any of these people are doing illegal stuff, but you know, just in general I mean how does that work if you're? I guess if you're a nice liberal, then what's the problem? You know, why aren't you down with her and you know that's kind of ignorant. It seems to me and the. One of the. Fault lines of this burn wild thing is right there.

The one I was kind of looking for was and was advised to to listen to. It is episode 5. Which is about Eugene Whitaker ickies And the Unabomber, I'm in there too. And I would have to say I got to say what I wanted to say, but the overall thing here is not much ideas. It's more People magazine style journalism, this audio series. And as I said, the question of violence. It's it's what runs through this is is a kind of obsession with the question of violence. And I said, and I think it is a very serious question. You know the you want to avoid a slippery slope like justifying violence and you know that whole thing is always on the table. It seems to me or it should be. But to is that the only question? I mean well in terms of the Unabomber and I’ve made it plain that I do not advocate sending bombs in the mail, but also were those people so innocent. When you see what's going down and. You know so much life expires every minute. Which is again not to say blowing up three people was a great idea. Especially via the mail anyway, there's a lot to that, but. They they were kind of shocked that that any violence would ever be justified.

And that whole question of defining violence. I don't personally define that as including property damage, targeted property damage, but some people do. No, it is violence. It's violent, and we're going to. It's justified, well, yeah, it's a matter of definition, but. Anyway, we were a little disappointed with the the thing and I haven't heard all of it, but. They were a little bit. I don't know and. And the stuff I said I was referring to cops as pigs. They were quite shocked, quite shocked. I guess they never heard of the 60s for one thing, but anyway, take a look for yourself.

Action Reports

ZERZAN: Some recent resistance outbreaks in Frankfurt. There was a big attack on several large excavators working on the. Tunnel thing. Under the reader bald. Magnificent solidarity of the occupation of the second Heim Forest. Which has been going on since the fall of 2021. I did not. Get a translation. I could not find the translation. This is from Athens librarian Speedex and that would be interesting to find the wine speedex. We take responsibility for the arson of vehicles. Which vans and trucks that were outside the Speedex store? In Athens. Yeah, I don't read Greek so I don't know what the answer to that is. And December 1st. This happened in Rome. Let's see. No at Torino, but this is reported having to do with the court proceedings in Rome. Where the fate of anarchist comrade Alfredo Hospital is being determined in the early morning hours, we decided to sabotage the traffic lights of numerous intersections in Turin. Thus contributing to multiplying the morning chaos of this asphyxiating city. You want to take away our voice. We cut off your light. That's what they say. And on December 6th. There was rioting in. Greece's second city, the Saloniki north of Athens. After a March for Alexandre's, Gregor Oplocks, who was killed by cops in 2008. The day before December 5th, there were extensive rights in Athens and this will. Want to keep? Protests in many towns around the. Country after the shooting in the head of a 16 year old Roma Kid, Costas Frangoulis. Also December 6th. Yeah, there was a there was a. An arrest and damage to Perez Bank ATM that Perez is the port of Athens. As the minimal expression of anger against the murdering state, also in terms of. Both of the aforementioned people that were. Shot by police. You know this is an odd coincidence here. A little funny story there was. At one of the latter. Well, it was 2010. I think it was San Francisco anarchist book Fair in Golden Gate Park. Leah Keith Had come up with a book called The Vegetarian Myth. She'd been a vegan I believe, and this was scandalous to the many vegans who were there. And it turns out that a lot of her figures and facts come from the meat industry, which didn't help her case either kind of in Appalachia for meat. And so she was doing this workshop presenting. Her book and. Three different, I would guess vegans, masked vegans. Ran up on the stage from the wings and each one pied her. And it broke up the thing I mean. And people were, I think somebody was throwing stuff from the audience as well, and. Anyway, I was one of the people who was hanging out out front of the. Hall there and going to be parked just. Chatting with people and. She came running out she she screamed as somebody called the cops. And Tom is one of the main. Organizers are bound together. Person of years was trying his best to persuade her. Please don't call the cops. We can deal with this here. You know, internally we. Can strain it out and I'm sorry. You got tied and. Anyway, the police showed up almost instantly. I think they were. Kind of watching things nearby and she she claimed that there was red pepper in the cream pies and I was standing right next to where she pulled up to the curb or ran up to the curb where the police cruiser came and her eyes were not red there. That's not no trace of that, but. I guess you wanted to make it sound worse than it was, and so the cops, two cops got out and she said she was attacked. In there and. And they said attacked by anarchists, then they're sort of salivating. I think over that prospect, and she said, no vegans, and these cops kind of looked at each other like it wasn't clear at all whether they even knew what vegan means. But they kind of scratched their heads and got back in their cruiser. Left they couldn't pin it on anarchists, I mean, these vegans were anarchists, and almost certainly anyway, but that wasn't the point. That wasn't the point of getting pied, so. Anyway, Long story short, but there was let's see. This was last Wednesday's story and it's going down. Once again she got pied. Some years later she was leading a. Small turf demo. You know hate speech against trans folks. And yeah, that got a little bit interesting. She was doing. She was leading this little demo. I think it was. Only 10 people, or maybe not even. 10 people with Kara Dansky, who's another turf. Person trans exclusionary radical feminists. Nothing radical or feminist about it, and most people's views anyway. Kara Dansky is a favorite with Tucker Carlson. Who's a piece of reactionary? You know what? White nationalists and the whole 9 yards so. You know more and more are just so predictably these anti trans people are are just indistinguishable from the. Trump's people like Tucker Carlson. Yeah, they had their little demo and then nearby they rented to 20 or so. Opposition is and then pied her in and apparently these two were even hit with eggs, so they. Again, a little taste of what? Trans people often go through much worse than that anyway. Yeah, it's a little bit of. The news there and. What's going on in China? I don't know if it rivals what's going on in. In Iran, after almost three months now, but. Front page piece. New York Times. Article deep discontent in Chinese youth goes past COVID, so it's not only just about the COVID restrictions there. It's about no future for the young in China. I got a couple of ads of the week, then been forgetting all about ads. Of the week. One is Samsung's my favorite. This gets the number one rating I'd say. It's it's a television ad. It shows the dad getting off the couch. He says to the child. Let's go to the playground. And they. They leave the room, and then when they come back, the mother. Kind of winks, and she says, I know where the playground is. It's a VR ad there. There ain't no playground. There's just the playground of synthetic. Or is that stuff via virtual reality? Yeah, the playground. Well, that's where the playground is headed. It's you don't go outside God no. There was a Sunday's New York Times two page ad for Boston University and it read in part everyone needs a strong foundation in data Science today. Data science is essential to every discipline today. Yeah, up here in the dataverse. That's what you get. There was a very nice piece in the Atlantic Daily last Wednesday by Kate Lindsay called all alone. Yeah, it's. How social media at first you could say it wasn't so bad it was for family and friends to to connect, but now it's for strangers. That's where it went. Tech talk for example, and. Yeah, it's a pretty decent piece. And who's the latest from the Girl Scouts? This is pretty unhealthy even and healthier than their have had cookies. You can get a badge, a uniform patch. If you push the winners of 5G telephone technology. Yeah, you want to promote that. That's wonderful that's so healthy. Yeah, we know how. Cell phones. To one's mental health. Especially among kids, you know that's well known it's. That’s going to be a parody, except it isn't a parody. I've seen this source several places. Let's see the piece in the Sunday New York Times called what Twitter does to our sense of time by Jenny Odell. How colonized by speed up time? Yeah, that's exactly right. We go at the speed of technology which is ever accelerating. There's no sense of what to do about it, but it's a pretty good descriptive voice. And and I wanted to mention just a little shout out to myself. Quando ziano umani Or when we are human is that in a very nice addition in Italy from Ornica press? And they want to do. The against Civilization Anthology next very handsome Italian edition. OK, one last thing. And this was reported this happened Sunday night. The 11th in San Francisco, there was a comedy performance, Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle. A couple of well known comics and they Dave Chappelle invited Elon Musk, who was present. He lives in San Francisco up to the stage. He was loudly booed off the stage. Very heavy heavy booing for many minutes. Yeah, that's the kind of maybe people don't just worship these. These characters are bringing the plague to everybody and. On every level. Yeah he, I think he was surprised. It was invisibly surprised. Well, back here. Currently I'll be here on the 20th. As we edge closer to the happy, happy, happy holidays. Going to have some new stuff. Sorry that Catherine was prevented from coming, but. We'll do that. We'll do the performance second week of November 2nd Tuesday. Thanks very much for listening. Be well out there.

12-06-2022

[audio]

Tales of deepening isolation. Worsening contamination, extinction, and other die-offs. "All There Is," a CNN special on grief. "Waiting for the End of the World: Should We Be Rooting for the Apocalypse?"(!) Anti-Technology Is Not Dead, new zine. Resistance briefs. Giant EU roll-out party for the metaverse is giant dud: 6 show up. EV boom vs. environment. "How To Replace the Sky" comic by Matt Huynkh. Tesla follies. Fern Sunday night at Sam Bond's.

11-29-2022

[audio]

No Thanks No Giving. World Cup background. Mass shootings at even higher levels. Older people live alone increasingly. "Journey to Doomsday" re: Florida-size Antarctica glacier. Amazon forest beginning to collapse. 90% of U.S. counties have had disaster designations. Downfall of civ is ever more clear. Tuvalu turns to metaverse as rising seas threaten its existence. Resistance news, upcoming anarchist events. "The World Can't Recycle its Way Out of Plastics Crisis."

11-15-2022

[audio]

Deana Dartt Sunday. Record emissions for 2022 despite phoney COP27 climate summit.We're now at 8 billion. Shootings news. COVID and depression. QAnon drops ignored. Action reports. Backwoods#3. From "Lying Flat" to "Let It Rot!" "The Age of Social Media Is Ending" by Ian Bogast. AI 'art.' FTX crypto collapse. Big tech's big problems.

11-08-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts, Jolly Heretic misfire: my confession. Global climate summit nonsense.2022 already termed hottest. Mississippi River drying up, California woes. "We're All Losing Ground, not Just Students." Record election spending, shootings, pediatric care crisis. The Axle Grinder of Revolution: death to commuters - a new ITS or satire? Generation Isolation"as kids retreat from the social to online. Action briefs. New Fifth Estate. One call.

11-01-2022

[audio]

45 days in, "Women, Life, Freedom!" in Iran. David Brooks on "The Rising Tide of Global Sadness." Excellent "Six Notes" poem by David Baker. Very weak major "Envisioning Life after Climate Change" by David Wallace-Wells (10-30 NYTM). Environmental ruin, mass deaths in mass society. Conversation with It's Going Down folks. Metaverse - looking like a big flop. Our dependency on an increasingly vulnerable techno-world grows.What can't those on the Left see?

10-25-2022

[audio]

UK news: "The Teenage Mental Health Crisis Is Now a Societal Disaster.""Obvious cause...is the internet." In New York a teen Luddite Club abandones smartphones. Scary rise in respiratory illness among kids. Fires in Midwest as drought spreads from West Coast. Election blather. "Undercurrent of rebellion among youth in China. Action news. Gamers more apt to be racist, sexist. Heavy tweeters declining in number. Tech fails, Metaverse in doubt. The plastics menace and false solutions. One call.

10-18-2022

[audio]

"How Can We Revive Generations of Lost Knowledge?" by John Schandlenmeier. U of O's Designing for the Flourishing of All Species (?) Two Wyoming colleges are phone-free with very curative results. 5.3 billion phones will be discarded in 2022. Metaverse's woes. ACT test scores lowest in 30 years.Mercury Pictures Presents by Anthony Marras. Resistance news. The Knowing. One call.

10-11-2022

[audio]

Kathan is co-host. How bad does it have to get? Uprising in Iran a month in, 80 cities, all 31 provinces. World heat waves as climate crisis "spirals out of control." Darcia Nardaez' important book; Humanimal Project podcast: "It's TIme to Rewild!" The Cult of Civ by Tom Murphy from Resilience. Fall Camp news, action briefs, one call.

10-04-2022

[audio]

Ian: hurricane of the future. Rocket fails. Fear of leaving civ. Heat officials huddle as Arctic, awash in plastics pollution, acidifies. 300 killed or injured indonesian soccer stampede. Mass shootings now daily. Online vs. learning. Foraging, a Palestinian film. Stephen King's new horror novel, Mr. Harrigan's Phone. Carbon capture nonsense. Digital Lethargy: Dispatches from an Age of Disconnection. Action briefs, one call.

09-27-2022

[audio]

Tech problems at KWVA recently, especially last week (see below). Hurricanes worsening. Iran, Russia in crisis. Mass shooting in w. Siberia. More blackouts ahead for California. Noise pollution out of control. Oak editor Steve Kirk is call-in guest: Where are we at?. UN: 'world in peril, and paralyzed.' Cascade of new ways tech cuts us off from reality, from direct experience itself. Cybersickness foils VR. How To Blow Up Pipeline film. Resistance news.

09-20-2022

[audio]

This the link to the most recently recorded show. Because of a technical problem in the studio the 09-20-2022 Anarchy Radio show was not broadcast, streamed, or recorded. Here is a summary of program content: The Myth of Normality by Gabor and Daniel Matte. All-time most expensive residence as inequity reaches new heights. Adults need Anxiety Screening; mental health in tatters.Pig atrocities, new dis-eases. Coyote comeback in So. California. Noise levels ever greater. How To Blow Up a Pipeline film: property damage absolutely required. Action briefs. Tesla storage facility burns. Cybersickness means no VR. Lithium means destruction. Who needs human touch?

09-13-2022

[audio]

This the link to the most recently recorded show. Because of a technical problem in the studio the 09-13-2022 Anarchy Radio broadcast/stream was not recorded. Here is a summary of program content: Death of a parasite. Eco tipping points vs. 'Resilience and Adaptation.' Insomnia for all. Violence is rife. Lynda Barry on crippling effects of being online. The Chaos Machine by Max Fisher, Digital Madness by Nicholas Kardaras. Chatbots hated. The rich try to escape the collapse of civilization. "Eco-conscious" Chromebook (!) New anarchist voices, No Path, Breaking the Alphabet, action news. Vice deal with Saudi Arabia. Long-termism, one call.

09-06-2022

[audio]

"Doomsday" Glacier in Antarctica threatens several-feet oceans rise. Even more extreme weather fluctuations. Mass killing in Canada. Evictions.Plummeting health for youth; declining longevity.Neurodiversity.Three calls: Fairy Creek struggle in B.C.; community television status; high-tech"Fawn" project.

08-30-2022

[audio]

Pakistan underwater, big "heat dome" heads for California. Great Resignation persists. An "uncontacted" Amazonian people goes extinct. Mass shootings weekend. Artemis on horrors of tech context of teaching. Doubts about VR, AI, Metaverse. What We Owe the Future: dud of a new book.Anarchist autumn? Sam Bond's Book Club to be on CTV. Resistance briefs. Pamyua indigenous music. Anti-cyberspace documentary coming from UK. Two calls.

08-23-2022

[audio]

Upcoming anti-civ talks. Cooking reduces energy expenditure of chewing; major evolutionary impact. Author-activist-anarchist Allantliff is call-in guest (postmodernism, Camas Books, Victorianarchist Book Fair).Anarchist actions, book fairs. Smartphones as deadly distraction. U. S. life expectancy declining. "Love" in the Metaverse. Is radical energy returning after 20-something years in U. S.? One call.

08-16-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Catastrophic climate stuff. Citizen M Hotel: High-tech horror. More intense surveillance, worker monitoring. Tech fails, recalls. Ezra Klein: "This anything but an argument against technology, were such a thing even coherent," (NYT 8/14). Victoria trip; Camas Books collective thriving. Fairy Creek uprising. Earth First! Journal responds to K. Tucker's challenge re: decolonization. Action reports, two calls.

08-02-2022

[audio]

No show August 9 (JZ in Victoria BC). The now-usual extreme heat, fires, flooding. Pelican extinction. A crime to be poor e.g. LA's war on the homeless. W hat's new at Meta, in the cloud, apps, algorithms. Dangerous if ubiquitous robots. Amazon and solar big enviro problems. Anarchist events, disconnect attitudes, post-civ vs. anti-civ, action briefs, 4 calls.

07-26-2022

[audio]

Californiablaze. Monkeypox is latest pandemic. Solar power weakens with extreme heat.Alpine glaciers melting at record pace. Coeur d'Alene Lake debacle. Conversation with Artxmis,anarchist writer and Uncivilized podcaster. Technology de-skills us. Walk the Distance, augmented reality hike app (!) New novels paint bleak picture. Breaking the Cycle film for renewal of life. Action briefs, two calls.

07-19-2022

[audio]

World is burning, civilization dying. Bizarre disease eruptions.988 suicide line - texting as himan life-line?? New anarchist books, music, actions.Conversation with James Van Lanen on CHAGS,food autonomy in Italy.(two calls)

07-12-2022

[audio]

Rampant Covid. Mind of mass shooters. "The New Slovenliness." Phone SNAFU:no Artxmis Graham Thoreau conversation. Drought & fire. Declining mental health. 200,000 year old mattresses. Recalls. Rewilding reports e.g. The wilderness Cure by Mo Wilde, action briefs. Lithium rush aka green extractivism. Condition of art: "Welcome to the desert of the virtual." Analog vs. digital. Canadian telecom failure, other tech hazards.

07-05-2022

[audio]

Mass shootings, of course. Independence Day or "Hostage Nation"? Unarmed Wayland Parker shot 60+ times in Akron. Some shoot back. iPhone is 15 years old: "almost impossible to conceive what a world without smartphones would look like." More extreme, erratic weather. "Not post traumatic stress disorder.It's ongoing stress disorder." As society can no longer hide its ugly, empty, oppressive features as anarchist energy seems to be emerging. CHAGS preview.

06-28-2022

[audio]

Monkey pox. global food crisis. Roe v. Wade and The Myth of Human Rights by Bob Black. Global heat waves. Workplace stress. Earliest humans 1 million years older than thought. JZ columns for Eugene Weekly. Barry Lopez empty suit. Project Unabomb podcast series. Action reports. Metaverse news, other tech projections. One call.

Transcript

Speaker 1: Check this out. This MC ice tea. You know I'm saying I'm cold lounging on KWV, a campus radio 88.1 FM man here, Boy.

Speaker 2: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of KWV radio or the associated students of the University of Energy. Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 3: That's right, you're listening to KKWVA Eugene here with John in the studio. Live 5413460645. Looks like we have somebody who's like trying to ring us already. We haven't even really started the show yet, but we'll get there. We'll get to you in just a moment, but we need to settle down and get ready. Answer this phone call so we're going to listen to a little test their logic.

Speaker 4: Chester logir Follow, follow, follow, follow. Thing for your thing, for your thing for yourself, follow, follow, follow anybody else thing for your thing for your thing follow anybody else thing for your thing for your thing. For yourself, follow, follow, follow. Teams for your teams, for your teams, for yourself, your own place, your own trail. Go get your goals whether succeed or fail. And if you fall down, you gotta get back up again. Any leaders, any styles, any trans gotta support each other, family or friends? Each one teach one of me center and talk. And listen to the propaganda that they try to. Send through the airwaves. Your brain waves, you gotta defend thelping hand. Every single one of us can land to each other. We're all sisters, brothers. Father, his mother's love for us. My life on. This planet wouldn't choose. Any other time to be alive? It's a blessing. It's mine. I'll follow the crowd. I won't see in alive happiness or the fire. But don't listen to me. Listen and see. Follow, follow, follow anybody else. Thing for your thing for your. Thing for yourself follow follow. Follow anybody else thing for your.

Speaker 5: Video for June 28th. And without an engineer for next week. But I think that will be remedied. Carl wants to be elsewhere, but maybe Jimmy or Elijah. Not sweating it. I'm not cancelling out because I think that can be fixed. But otherwise no engineer, no broadcast. Monkeypox global hunger crisis are on the threshold of. The usual dire challenges. Well, I think there is somebody calling. That starts us. Off right away with a comment I think. Get to a few things. Get some interesting news and announcements and. Happening to get to later on.

Speaker 3: So we have koyan on the phone.

Speaker 5: Thank you Toya.

Speaker 6: Coyan KOYN

Speaker 5: Oh, right, right how you doing. What's happening?

Speaker 6: So hey, so just wanted to longtime listener sometimes supporter of the show. Did some info shop stuff in Denver a while ago. And here in the northwest, checking you guys out. So I'm so I just wanted to bring up a book that I found. I don't know if you've. Mentioned it before in. Your show indigenous Paleolithic of the Western Hemisphere.

Speaker 5: Oh, I was going to shut that out tonight.

Speaker 3: What's your take?

Speaker 6: So I was just made aware of it. I don't know if you've brought it up in the last year or so I was wondering.

Speaker 5: No, no, it's not me.

Speaker 6: OK, yeah so.

Speaker 5: Well, that's Stevens or Paulette Steves.

Speaker 6: Yeah, and she.

Speaker 5: Right?

Speaker 6: She's in Canada. Like in just in the middle of nowhere there so.

Speaker 5: Sounds good, the announcement the promo for the thing sounds really good.

Speaker 6: Yeah cool yeah, I just wanted to see if you caught that obviously and I'm thinking about maybe calling the show and probably giving some better news of what's going on.

Speaker 1: There you go.

Speaker 6: I wasn't I wasn't able to really find much today. You know? The only thing I was just randomly thinking about was that. This COVID thing. Just I think we're really. Still dealing with the after effects of it and. Just the importance of face to face communication with people and how important that is and being around people is very important because these I talked to so many friends and people I know that are just breaking down.

UNKNOWN: You know and.

Speaker 6: Therapists are booked up. I mean you can't see anyone from. You know, for months and. You know, it's sad, but at the same time. You know, maybe it's a way to people, just. Wake up to really. Get off of these computers to. Really be more face to face.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah. I like that.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: There we go.

Speaker 6: Yeah, so OK yeah so just wanted to just mention that book and try to call in and try to bring some more cheery stuff.

Speaker 5: Oh good for you. Thank you, Karen.

Speaker 6: Yeah, all right. Thank you.

Speaker 5: Be well. Well, the Roe versus Wade reversal. Certainly important and. Strangely enough, we're not so strangely what one thing that's neglected and I haven't. Covered the media on this nonstop, but. There's a simple thing that I haven't heard referred to yet. This guarantee Roe was enacted in 1973 due to the presence in the early 70s of a very militant women's movement. Now there isn't one, and now there's no Roe protection. You know there's just this obsession with voting. This was 73. The N72 is the biggest landslide. In electoral history, when Nixon just swept every state but one, I think it was. And then Roe was just a few months later, so there's no connection necessarily at all. And there's no social movements. You get what you get. And by the way, Speaking of books. There is a new one out. This from 9 branded 9 banded books. Picked up by Amazon Amazon. Gave a shout out just to two or three days ago or so. It's called the myth of human rights by Bob Black. Speaking of guaranteed rights, and I'm not going to go into this much here, but. Because I do. Hope to get Bob to be a call in guest. One of these days trying to work that out, maybe it might have to be pre recorded. I don't know if it'll. Even happen at. All but anyway, he's arguing that this whole thing is a chimera. It's it hasn't. It hasn't made people freer or. Flourishing more. He calls it a myth and. He claims he argues that it's the ultimate cover for a boundless array of coercive agendas. In short, that every claim of right is a veiled threat of violence. And I'm looking forward to getting into that, but. After all, anarchy orientation is not a rights based. Set up or projection. Because, as I'm sure Bob is pointing out here, you need the state to guarantee those rights. They don't exist without that, anyway there's. There’s a lot to it and I. And I'm hearing that it's very, very typically. Sharp witted and. And well done so. Get into that. In future, ideally with Bob himself. I mean that I. Know that's a whole big topic and deserves some. Some thinking about it. Well, the global heat waves are just gigantic and this only what we're one week into into the summer. We got a lot of homeless deaths already due to the very high temperatures. And it's really something. And here. Here's a report from Alaska this month. Record number of acres burned in Alaska. Hitting indigenous folks up there. More than others and more than 1,000,000 acres. Gone up in flames already. More than 300 wildfires. In recent weeks this. And this about 3 days old or so. This story, so it's not any better I'm sure. Meanwhile, the Giant reservoir, Lake Mead. Which stops up the Colorado. We're getting closer to the point where that largest reservoir. Is less than 150 feet away from deadpools status. When the water is so low it can't, it will not flow. Downstream from the dam. How many millions rely on that across Arizona, California, Nevadand parts of Mexico? That's just a good measurement. And It’s dropping by hundreds of feet steadily. We're not there yet, but. This the. The looming mega crisis. Oh man. Let's see, this from the New York Times last Friday. From Janine Interlandi and Kahulugan aid. Twelve Americans die of an overdose every hour. 12 per hour in this country. And the rest of the title. Is this op-ed piece? We have the knowledge to prevent that. Why haven't we solved the addiction crisis? We have the knowledge to prevent that. I wonder what knowledge that would be. I have a feeling it's a very narrow. Idea of. Knowledge what about the knowledge? Of a crumbling, decaying society that causes people to be so desperate that they. They die in giant numbers. 12 per hour. This doesn't get to that knowledge. Yeah, part of that desperation. This from last Thursday. A Gallup study. State of the Global Workplace 2022. Workers surveyed 60% report feeling emotionally detached. 19 consistently feel miserable. And that estrangement higher than. The numbers from 2020. Which themselves set a new record for the proportion of. Workers who said they were stressed out on a daily basis. To no one's surprise, and the backdrop is the great resignation. And all of that. Well this not. This not your bleak news here. I don't know how this got. In here. Now this from the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Two days ago, one day ago. And they found. Sitting the signatures of particles from outer space. This the context. Of fossilized bones of the earliest humans. In South Africa they can. They can short the age. And this has to do with Australopithecus. Which is right at the and this this tricky stuff. I mean this all. A little bit up in the air this whole setup. When are human species? Appearing, how does that? How is that defined? Anyway, the story the bottom line is they are 1,000,000 years older than previously assumed. The bones of the very very early humancestors found in South Africa. It was thought that that stage these would be a. Afarensis, which are definitely not human species or pretty definitely not. You might remember the famous Lucy. Her bones date from 3.2 million years ago, so we're back in that period. Humans lived between 3.4 to 3.6 million years ago. Or the progenitors to humans? This a little. Cloudy . But I've, as I've said before, every finding pushes the pushes the dates back. Earlier humans and earlier capacities. And it to me, it just really unsettles all of these notions that. People human. Beings of 1 species or another at least back to Homewreck tus. And probably before that even. They didn't know how to do anything, actually, until Homeo sapiens, which is completely stupid. That's that's so wrong, it's. But it's still out there. It still lets the. Gold standard if you will, to use an ugly expression. Of what is human? And it's just a way off, and this the thing that. Really undermines that all the more. Already well. There's another thing that goes back a ways. And is not. Any pleasant news. This from the LA Times. Has to do with bark beetles. And the bristlecone pine forests in the in the White Mountains. Of California His storm battered White Mountains where? The bristlecone Pines. We're doing just fine. Thank you for thousands of years. Bark beetles. Either didn't exist there or they were held in check by the harsh conditions. These Pines in the White Mountains anyway. That's no longer the case. Hotter droughts and. More bark beetles are for the first time in recorded history, killing Bristlecones. These trees are just living symbols of longevity, strength and perseverance. Over thousands of years. Oh boy. And I hate to dip into this the. Vein of mystery illnesses severe. Conditions like thepatitis severe hepatitis among very young kids. Which ain't supposed to happen. Now there is a. There's another scared drug resistant gonorrhea. The strain of super gonorrhea resistant to antibiotics. This from the peer reviewed medical journal Euro surveillance last week, this. This European Journal. Pretty scary. And it's showing up in. While it showed up in Austria, a man in his 50s. And now it seems to be something that isn't. Likely to be checked. OK. Yeah, I just want to mention. How glad I am to be pretty much a regular columnist for the Eugene Weekly. Column is called from A-Z. And I've got one in. This week's issue. The current issue. I've been having one about once a month. Every four or five weeks anyway. Yeah, very nice and is even is it even a mention? On the top of the front page called Domestication page 4. So I'm very happy to be. Working with them over at the weekly. Yeah, this the one this week. If you haven't seen it, it's called civilized, all too civilized. A local anarchist calls for a return to primitive living to avoid catastrophe. We've got extra time. I might even read it, but there it is in the weekly. And this the one I'm I've sent them. As the next offering. And I will read it. It's not very long. It might come out next month. Any social media? It's called. It is a madly accelerating techno world. One of endless interruption. So-called social media. Have clearly made social existence worse. Popular books and articles treat online immersion as a threat or an affliction. Outsmart your smartphone by Chiky Davis, 2018. Overcoming Internet addiction for dummies. By David Greenfield, 2020. And an article I gave up my phone for 30 days to tackle my screen addiction and it changed my life by Anonymous 2012. Maybe that's 2022. Anyway, it's instructive that the designers and purveyors of social mediare very likely to keep their own kids away from it. App to send them to Waldorf schools where electronics are banned. Detox programs and camps proliferate, especially in summer. The negative and addictive effects of social media can hardly be more widely known. As per countless studies and reports. In the Rush Technosphere do folks Daydream anymore? Who writes letters? They've been pretty much replaced by tweets, likes, and the rest of fast food type quote communication. Even though that we know, even though we know that outside social media people have more time and enjoy better mental slash emotional health. And a further regressive move his texting had turned against the human voice voice messaging. Unadorned representation and nothing else. Another step toward the uninvolved and impersonal. I don't do social mediand I do not text. The machine stops is an EM Forster story written in 19. Nine Forster envisioned people averse to human interaction and living in separate underground pods. They communicate electronically. Via network called the Machine until it begins to fall apart. Jason Lanier, who, ironically brought US virtual reality. Finds hope in the storied collapse of the machine. As he tries to imagine a reformed model for social media. This could somehow be realized by a big changeover called for in his 2018 book. 10 arguments for deleting your social mediaccounts right now. And that's the steel he admits from the four arguments for the elimination of. Television back in the late 70s. By Jerry Mander. Yeah, 10 arguments. For dropping your social medias right now, social media needs a makeover because after all we can't afford to ditch it. He asserts we can't afford not to try to fix it. Quote, because otherwise we'll eventually have to gut a whole universe of digital technology. Can't even. A whole universe that is carrying us further and further into the isolated, unhealthy, deskilled surveilled alienated dimension of technology. Lanier is desperate to salvage this universe. But my hope is that it will collapse like the machine in Forster's story. It really is up to us to decide what needs to go. Always wired ever more so or. We're not, let's see. Oh got some interesting stuff in the. Or political department. And enjoyed it back and forth from a. Quote long time anarchy radio listener from Holland. Anyway, we're talking about the COVID nothing. It's nice to know that. That he listens and. Take the time to send a message. By the way, this a little bit. Down the trail. But just if you want to put it on your calendar already. On the last day of July, July 31st. At Sam, but this Sunday. Mark Seeley. Anarchist writer from. So-called Washington State will be down to present his book old dog. If you've heard anarchy radio lately, you've heard me rave. About old dog. And I'm more of an old dog basically and. And more of that. More along those lines. A wonderful book. Yeah, he'll be on deck at bonds. On the 31st. Yeah, well to go from the wonderful the supplier to less so. This in the New York Times Book Review, and I think elsewhere. Embrace fearlessly the burning world. Posthumous essays from Barry Lopez. And as the reviewer points out, and it's, I'm sure that's accurate. I haven't seen it yet, but. He says there's zero details or specifics. So you got this wide-ranging or vague. We got to change everything and know. Not even a hint of step one or what would be the targets. To save everything or nothing. And I have to say it, just as in life he steadfastly avoided taking sides or. You know, getting down to brass tacks in any way. Yeah, I remember some years ago there were. Some indigenous people in Canada who were mounting a save the world save the wolves type project and they contacted. Barry Lopez Seeking his endorsement. And he got furious. How dare you compromise my? Integrity as a writer. By asking me to do such a thing. You know that is just straight up white settler, privileged talking. That is so bogus and here he was the darling of. The environment that's just really. It's really a joke. He just really. Would never get down. He just never. So yeah, that's my reaction to that book. And the aforementioned the indigenous Paleolithic of the Western Hemisphere by Paulette FC Steves. Sounds like a heck of a good read. She's she in her intro. Where it says. As indigenous, she says, I walked paths of immense loss, justified through archaeological discussions, denying the civility, intellect, humanity and heartbeat of indigenous nations. As a member of a colonized indigenous population, I have a very personal and intimate understanding. Of this history. And this goes back in her book, over 130,000 years of history and includes the colonial history of racism. Which often ignored. It sounds like they're really. Worthwhile serious book. I'm glad to see this that this has appeared. And I just want to mention, once again. Alex Dunlap. And his essay. About decolonization and the anarchist critique of civilization. By the way, on June 17th he organized this webinar on Green extractivism and violent conflict. At the University of Helsinki. And he once lived in Oregon, by the way, as I probably mentioned. He's going down that path and It’s wonderful, I think. I'm going to be in Vic. BC This a ways off this. Late August is it? And I want to. Think I'll be giving a talk at the campus bookstore there. Great bookstore. Anarchist collective bookstore In Victoriand. I want to bring up the Dunlap piece there. It’s so well. Phrased is so well. Oh boy, going up and down here with the good and the bad. Something came out yesterday, rather the first three episodes of something called. Project Unabom which is a Unabomber podcast. By Eric Benson and others. And I listened to the first three. Boy, they're always digging up something about the Unabomber case, almost never getting to the meaning of it, the validity of it 25 years later. Well, did it make sense, is it? Is it panning out? Does it look like what he is? Predicting and describing. The answer of course is yes, but anyway. This being released by Apple TV Plus. Like I said, I. Curious stuff man. I listened to the first three episodes with the 1st 2. And it was all about it was. A lot of stuff, a lot of inside details about why. In the fall of 95. Did the Washington Post decide to? Upon the Unabomber's demand to publish the entirety of industrial society and its future, and talk about these industrial or these editorial discussions and the FBI weighing in and blah blah fairly well known story. And it's a. I don't know just to a nuts and bolts narrative of different parts of the. Story of the so-called Unabomber. It’s nothing. It's nothing offensive, it's some of. It's just trivially, trivially. And in the third episode, I didn't. I didn't listen to the whole thing because it was just, I thought, zany. Here's angle that nobody picked up on, and It’s interesting in its own way. It's called episode 3 is called Roll of the DICE. And it has a lot of inside stuff about people that the FBI was grabbing up. In that long period when they had no clue and were squeezing various people and how apparently it ruined some people's lives just really put theat on them. And these people were just guilty of nothing, just started out thinking it was a joke. And then they found out otherwise. And it starts out with. We go on and on, but there's a dungeons and Dragons club in Chicago that they that the FBI got a hold of. And there were one or two. Mildly coincidental things, but. These were these dungeon and Dragons nerds. They had. They wouldn't know how to make a bomb or have the slightest motivation to send bombs in the mail. It's just wacko. But it went on and on. Anyway, roll the dice. I didn't listen to the whole thing, but interesting. I'm going to be in episode 8 because I spoke with this guy. Episode 8 won't be out until August 1st. Which focuses it, says Eric says. Focuses on Ted's legal proceedings and his legacy. So OK, there may be something. In terms of the meaning of. Of what he wrote. Why he did what he did all? That stuff. Well, here's some cop stuff. And you probably. Got this if you. Check out the news this horrific story from Uvalde West, TX. Where this guy comes in with his AR15 and. Goes into a classroom and starts slaughtering children and two teachers. Well, first they said. The door is locked. They didn't have a key. They didn't know how to proceed, and actually they were cowering in the hallway and there's no video that shows them even trying the door. Amazing, that story gets more. It terrible every every time they talk about it. Meanwhile, he's in there gunning down these kids. This in the news. Last Thursday the 23rd. Federal judge sentenced a 25 year old man who threw Molotov cocktails at police in Portland. During mass protests against police brutality to 10 years in prison. Yeah, it's supposedly in September 2020 through Molotovs. That police broke windows. And the worst injury or damage? Well, there was no injury, but it is stated that one of the Molotov. You know they go off when they break. It created a fireball which set the pant leg of an officer on fire. It doesn't say that he was. Burned or anything but. That was the that was the size of it. Got 10 years and on the same day. A former Eugene department. Pig pleads guilty to sexual assault. Christopher Drum was an E PD officer for about three years. Found guilty of rape. He got maybe 30 days. It says. Sentenced to 30 days jail with alternatives as an option, this pig might not even serve one day. Meanwhile this. Person up in Portland got 10 years. This so disgusting. Pigs on parade. The injustice system. Well, the next day on the 24th, that was a Friday night last Friday night. We may be seeing the rebirth of black block. Anarchy we may be seeing the rebirth of that militant. Movement, that action. This had to do late Friday night to build as night of rage. A digital. Announcement advertising the protests instructed participants to block up meaning to wear black. Black block stuff to. Void being incriminated. And there was quite a set to. Many pigs and. They pigs fired. Pepperballs remember. Rubber bullets. Yeah, this quite a quite a deal. I've went on for quite some time, so maybe black block is back. I pray that it. Is and I pray that it's everywhere. OK, going back a little bit backwards there. June 17th in Philadelphia. We use paint and glass edge to mess with windows on luxury apartment construction at 48th and spruce. And Gentry construction at 51st and Baltimore. Smashed out the front doors and windows. We did this to fight gentrification and to contribute to the new wave of anarchist attack in the US. They're seeing something too. New wave of anarchist attack. We also did this. Have fun, happy pride. And let's see also, well, June 24th. Arson attack at a Eurobank ATM and Thessaloniki. Greece's second biggest city. 24th Anti Abortion Center in Glendale, CA. Which is NE Los Angeles? Covered in graffiti and the ever popular if abortion isn't safe, you won't be safe. And the crowd in Phoenix. This wasn't much reported by the Liberal press. Almost broke into the state capital. There was a real confrontation. Ended with the volunteer gas. There was a lot of pigs. Inside trying to hold the line. It was this AP story variously described Saturday. Or late Friday night. As either peaceful or driven by anarchists intent on destruction. Could be some of both. All right, in Vermont on the 25th, police at the Vermont. Vermont State house. In Montpelier, said the building was vandalized early Saturday when seven windows were broken. Messages painted outside the main door course reacting to the Supreme Court's over turning of Roe V Boyd. Vandalism took place around 2:00 AM Saturday. Once again, if abortions aren't safe, you're not either. Estimated damage. $25,000 plus. The fight goes on in Athens, in Exarchia Square. That lovely. Square next to the Polytechnic University. They're trying to put in a metro stop. They're trying to bust up that community space. And they've been fighting that in street feet hill. I was up there part of. Public talks nearby. Strefi hill. They want to. Develop that private interest moving into the park. There aren't many, many. Parks in Athens by the way. So they're fighting. Against gentrification, evictions, political denationalization, state repression. This from Athens Indian media. And in wahaca, the indigenous Minisat community of Fuente Madera. Are mobilizing once again defense of their common lands. Against the construction of Industrial Park. One of 10 industrial parks. Proposed as a corridor mega project. In Taiwan, tepec, the ismus of 21 tepec. This. A statement put out just yesterday. To the indigenous peoples, organizations and collectives of the Isthmus of Zantec, Oaxaca, Mexico. The fight goes on. Oh gosh, we're way past the music break. We can squeeze one inch and we.

Speaker 3: If you want to, yeah we can, it's ready.

Speaker 5: OK, great.

Speaker 7: No no.

Speaker 5: That was Alex hills. And yeah, interesting deal. abstract, pretty weird, but. Outside in, it's called. Something a little different. OK, let's get back to work. NASA is pausing their project psyche. That's the name of a metal rich asteroid. Also, the name of this space mission. Problem due to the spacecraft projects navigation software. Which means the mission may not reach the asteroid until 2029 or 2030 rather than 2026. Thank you, Adam Ken mining. Not be far behind a metal rich asteroid. You know, mining the ocean seabed. Yeah, was going to come next down the trail. Well, some interesting full page ads in the New York Times. Last week for meta. One, the first one was for. Virtual instruction for heart surgeons. Yeah, work on a virtual heart. And we'll be all ready to work on it real hard. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2: What's the difference?

Speaker 5: And then a day or two later, later in the week. Virtual instruction for jetliner mechanics. Let's just hop on a jetliner that's. That's been tooled and inspected and worked on. Yeah, what could go wrong with that? And that the Current TV ad, by the way, of TV commercial. The metaverse may be virtual, but the results are real. Just what we're afraid of. Well, Mark Zuckerberg, this last Wednesday. Rolling out meta pay, which is another name for Facebook pay. A wallet for the metaverse. It's just it's really the same. Thing before with the different branding different name. But how much more fun to? To do that stuff virtually. Through the digital world. No unpleasant human interaction, for example. It's going to be scoping out with a single wallet experience might look like. In terms of making payments and stuff like that. More on the miniverse. This a piece in last Thursday's New York Times the Avatars wear Pradand other fashion. Fashion line accessories and so forth. Manna opens a fashion store for its metaverse. Yeah, the fashion soon to be digital only. Well, of course it's the miniverse. If somebody at Intel. Another little bit of irony. A senior VP at Intel. OK, with the metaverse well it's going to take several orders of magnitude. More powerful computing capability to make it possible. Like Bitcoin mining, right gigantic energy drain? Stuff don't come free. And they have all these fantasies. But yeah, to make it real, Chris. Real isn't the word, of course, but. That's demand for computer computing power. They're scrambling. Can't realize that without the actual cost without the. What makes it happen? Well, here's switching gears again. There were couple of stories in The New Yorker magazine. First of all, there was a profile of Matthew Wong. Who committed suicide? He was an artist. Of the Internet, long developed his practice and his career largely through social media. UM? He bases on looking at an image on his phone. To move that somehow into art. And they ask. You know, in a obituary, how did this machine devour him? And there was there was. A pretty good letter, one letter. From Jonathan Almayer in Bronx, NY. Pointed out how bereft it is, how how. I mean, you can't say I don't think you can say that was the direct cause of his suicide, but. It was the bankrupt. Way of doing stuff if you ask me and it didn't sustain him. Anyway, without getting into the whole question of art. Such is what I raised in the case against art. This fellow Omar says. What about painting? It's that sort of online techno stuff is. Getting to be normal in the art world, but it does not have much. To do with. Painting images on screens are highly commodifiable and abstracted, but looking at a painting in person is a true and full experience. It requires the observer and the observed to share a space so that both were implicated. It is an encounter with another point of view. And its celebration. Not a denial of reality. In our age of unreality and alienation, we need paintings more than ever. But these same conditions make us less and less able to produce paintings worth spending time with. Matthew Wong tried to make real paintings in an unreal world. The crisis he faced is increasingly shared by all artists and non artists alike who value meaningful experiences. Well, that’s really. Speaks to something. Yeah, how? Impoverished that sort of thing is. And how it led to a tragic end. It was part of. Part of that trajectory. From the guardian. Thursday, June 23rd. Amazon plans to let people turn their dead loved ones voices into digital systems. With the company promising the ability to make the memories last. Yeah, they'll trick out the with the technology, Alexa. Can mimic the voice of anyone who hears from less than a minute and provided audio. You can hear the voice of. The deer departed. Wow, this just so nuts. Yeah, this not exactly arriving right now, but. The underlying technologies apparently have been around a while. Get this. From the piece the company gave a demonstration where the reanimated voice of an older woman was used to read her grandson a bedtime story. After he asked Alexa, can grandma finish reading me? The Wizard of Oz? Yeah, the machine can do everything. I think that's grotesque. Here's a piece from the Daily Mail end of May. About virtual children. The so-called Tamagotchi kids. Virtual children this the rise of same. But don't children to play with you cuddle you and even look like you will be commonplace in 50 years and could help combat overpopulation. AI expert predicts. More wonders.

UNKNOWN: I mean.

Speaker 5: Anything means actual children, I mean. Don't be stupid. Computer aided computer generated offspring. Will exist in the immersive digital world known as. You got it. The metaverse. All right, this from Business Insider. Also late May. And it didn't provide much details, but thank you Jim for this story. A-Team of neuroscientists was really surprised in quotes by the results of a gene editing experiment on hamsters. This CRISPR type stuff, right? The tenants expected that the elimination of vasopressin activity would make the hamsters behave more peacefully. Instead, the gene edited hamsters displayed displayed high levels of aggression. Yeah, it couldn't go wrong. And I'm not going to get into the welter of tech fails and recalls, but this. This 1 Toyota issued a global recall. Of its electric crossover SUV. Less than two months after the vehicle was released. Automakers said the humboldts on the wheel can be homeless and their tires flow off the vehicle. Naturally, Toyota is warning owners not to drive their vehicles until the problems are fixed. The recall represents a set back for the world's largest automaker. Which has pledged to spend $17.6 billion. To roll out 30 battery electric models by 2030. Yeah, that's going to go so well. Well, pretty darn sure. There will be. Anikey radio next Tuesday. We got a lot of tips. Carl, just give me a lot. Of tips On how to find said engineer. And so it might be a nice reunion with somebody I haven't seen in a while or somebody else. So anyway, we'll go out with some. John Coltrane, yeah. I'll hang in there.

Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

06-21-2022

[audio]

Jan. 6 Committee side-show. How now, anti-vaxxers? World droughts, dead penguins. Congo rainforest ravaged; recalls. Australian activism. Fifth Estate locked into "radical solidarity" (the Left as albatross, fail). Ecology Contested: primitivists are eco-fascists:more leftist garbage, Full-page NYT ad: "Meta - Virtual Hearts Will Help Real Doctors Save Lives." Action news, more tech fails, falsity, lies. "Everything is crashing."

06-14-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Who can gun laws locate, shooter-wise? Weather getting increasingly extreme. Varieties of denial and lies to cloak systemic ruin. Lithium mining = "irreversible air and soil contamination"; "green sacrifice zones." Highlights of Oak#4. Language chat-bot (LaMDA) is sentient, has consciousness of a 7-8 year-old, says Google engineer. Anti-abortion offices attacked, anti-militarism, ant-tech action in Sardinia.

06-07-2022

[audio]

(NOT Ohio State football game) Even more mass shootings. Congressional hearings on Jan. 6 attack. Enviro catastrophe news. Diseases rising, work culture questioned.Techno fakery, U of O study on smartphone effects - conducted via smartphone. World "rapidly becoming one giant farm." Internet hall of mirrors: where is meaning/truth? Walmart bans cocoanut milk made with forced monkey labor. "I Don't Want Your Progress!" essay.

05-31-2022

[audio]

Uvalde, endless mass shootings. Pig culture. Two recent anarchist events in Eugene. Disease/ health hazards news. Extreme weather, herbalist aspects. Can plastics be recycled? Critique of Bored Reason, by Dimitri Nikulin. Virtual Abba, AI for your poop. Anti-civ and de- colonization. Anti-military resistance in Russia, local rioting, action briefs. One call.

05-24-2022

[audio]

Hakim Bey (1945-2022). Interview with Steve Kirk, Oak editor. Event at Sam Bonds tomorrow. Erratic, extreme weather; droughts, fires, scary hurricane season ahead. Poverty, isolation. pollution news. Rotn call. "Autonomous sensory meridian response" in museums re: "our increasingly isolating digital age." OnlyFans is an employment agency app: "how easy it is to simulate online intimacy"(!) Resistance briefs.

05-17-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Mass shootings, racism on the rise. Cryptocurrency collapsing. What canarchy contribute? (Eugene discussion event 5/25) Space polluted by rocket launches, satellites. Wildfire season already underway. Cliodynamics journal trashes Dawn of Everything. Happy for You by Claire Stanford: an app/algorithm to tell how happy one is. Civ crumbling on all fronts..

05-10-2022

[audio]

New anti-tech CD from Arcade Fire. "In Grief Is How We Live Now" (NYT 5/8). A shredded social, personal fabric in late civ. Over a million in U.S. have suffered and died. Raging fires in American SW. "Metaverse, Number, Philosophy" by JZ. Actual cost of electric vehicles, deep sea mining: ruin has no limit. Birds die of heatstroke as India sizzles. Another new low for anarchistnews. Action news.

04-19-2022

[audio]

Tech failure: the broadcast was fine, but it didn't get recorded.

04-12-2022

[audio]

Mass shooting of the week. Hundreds more US billionaires, many thousands more homeless. "All the Lonely People," by JZ. Kathan reports: Birds' self-liberation and more. Baseball, Florida's manatees face extinction. MatureDose is a U of O app that measures one's time in nature(?) Four Eugene high-school suicides in 12 weeks. Metaverse, cryptocurrency problems. Endless navel-gazing at anarchistnews.org. Resistance news.

04-05-2022

[audio]

Two excellent quotes about civilization. Just today's news alone reflects environmental catastrophe. Conversation with Jamie re: his upcoming Anarchy After Graeber, and more; much needed! Kids as young as 5 on social media. Drought, valley fever in California. Mass shootings, selected recalls. Alcohol-related deaths among women up 85% since 1999 (pre-pandemic). "Why Are People Acting So Weird?" Resistance briefs.

03-29-2022

[audio]

Giant ice shelf collapse in E. Antarctica. Microplastics now in our bloodstreams. Call-in with Jason Rodgers, author of Invisible Generation collection, on anti-internet DIY culture. "How Did This Many Deaths Become Normal?" (The Atlantic, 3-8). Prevagen, NeuroQ, etc. Is cognition going downhill like everything else? Severe bleaching event hits Great Barrier Reef. The Boundaries of Human Nature by Matthew Calarco: strongly anti-domestication re: Donna Haraway. Dematerializing human existence: the Metaverse.

03-22-2022

[audio]

"Sweet Jane." Sad, shredded social landscape. Conversation with Mark Seely; his new book is Old Dog. New psychiatric illness: "prolonged grief disorder"(?) New Houllebecq novel, Annihilate. Literacy crisis; kids' reading levels falling. Tech show a big fail at SXSW. Digital detox in Japan, dumbphones on the rise. Extreme weather, action news.

03-15-2022

[audio]

"Best Hope for Ukraine Lies with its Cities" (Bloomberg 3/14) (!) Remember Makhno. Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: "Global Collapse is in View." Discussion with rotn re: Black Blossoms at the End of the World (new book). Carbon capture, energy independence - ways to guarantee further productionist ruin. Next Nature is planning a holiday in space, "How Do You Date without a Dating App?" More pre-metaverse tech horrors. New Path, a new anti-civ zine. Action briefs.

03-08-2022

[audio]

First 20 minutes was of last week's episode due to tech changes at KWVA.Kathan co-hosts. Death of a granddaughter. War on Ukraine "first social media war." Covid toll nears 6 million globally. Amazon rainforest to turn into grassland. Space junk slams into moon. Tik Tok faces suits: its negative effects on youth. Teledoc offers "telehealth." Internet soon to be fully AI generated: bots not humans at thelm. Buy a car, a house from one's sofa. Drought deepens for California. Climate scientists may go on strike because no-one is listening. Acts of resistance.

03-01-2022

[audio]

War on Ukraine, grass-roots resistance. Pentagon: "Nintendo Generation" new recruits weak and fragile. Global water cycle, wildfires crises. Musk's Neuralink human-computer bond development based on animal torture. Moxie robot for kids "to build social-emotional skills"(!) Replika, #1 chatbox companion." JZ at The Computer Room with Katya, a fine conversation. Galactic Starcruiser tech fantasy hotel. The myth of sustainable fashion, rise of plasticulture. Black Blossoms at the End of the World book. Next week: after two, years, back live in the studio, with Kathan.

02-22-2022

[audio]

School shootings and other violence reach new levels, youth mental health in tatters."The Meta...What?" by JZ. Are we edging toward it? Ethanol dirtier than gasoline, solar inadequate power source for EV charging stations. More lithium-ion battery fires. More tech fails, anti-work zeitgeist. Encouraging new interest in primitivo. Mega-drought in U.S. West - worst in 1,200 years, as seas rise. Resistance victories in Canada re: pipelines, and other action news.

02-15-2022

[audio]

Even Elon Musk sees civilization crisis, as he talks Mars getaway. New Book Network interview Feb. 17, The Second Sleep, post-collapse novel by Robert Harris. Anti-vaxx truckersjoin hands with neo-fascists.Koalas face extinction, % of kids who read for pleasure at lowest point ever. Open season cops, year-round fire season So. California. Resistance news.

02-08-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Some positive news e.g. simple stoves for the unhoused, the good energy of Bound Together Books in SF. Murder of Amir Locke, a pig video presentation. "Apocalypse Whatever" (02-06 NYT);current failure of Metaverse roll-out. Discussion of what's at stake: namely, everything. Tech imperialism aims at dominating every sphere of life. Resistance briefs.

02-01-2022

[audio]

More species face extinction; 123 degrees in western Australia, all-time record for southern hemisphere. "Mining" by JZ. Fire at Big Sur: year-round fire season in California. Antarctic iceberg A68a, world's biggest, moved north and melted, releasing 152 billion tons of water. Senegal beaches awash in plastics, 9,000 barrel oil spill off coast of Peru. Reality+ by David Chalmers: hooray for virtual future. iPhones, social mediat war with authentic connection. AI, suicide rate both on upswing. Winter Count primitive skills camp v. popular, sold out. Resistance news.

01-25-2022

[audio]

Overheating world, part of Java being submerged. Excerpt from Mark Seely's remarkable Old Dog, JZ's preface to Russian zine Egalite questionaire. Metaverse promises new horizon of experience as its merger of digital and virtual would extinguish actual experience. Attention span, focus undone by ever-encroaching tech. "This no Way to be Human," states Alan Lightman about a natureless world, but can only advise being "mindful" because "technology will not stop or even slow down"(!). AI chatbots for "conversation" in the global, barren techno-sphere. Anarchist news, development.

01-18-2022

[audio]

A first: kids 12-17 now prefer being alone or online to being with friendsor family: the crushing estrangement of tech. Two op-eds on same day about political and social disintegration (NYT 1-14). Oceans warmest yet. The Real Anthony Fauci by RFK Jr. - dumb conspiracy dodge; Fauci, the devil? CIV is the devil. Mass shooting in Eugene. Tech failures, delays, propaganda. Resistance reports.

01-11-2022

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts; maybe our last remote broadcast in 2 years. Jan. 6 anniversary hoopla -more distraction from the actual crisis. Covid rages and new, 'mystery' diseases appear (e.g. in New Brunswick). Boulder CO not a forest fire but an "urban firestorm." Superb new children's book: 24 Hours in the Stone Age by Lan Cook. "Waste colonialism" - plastic waste to poorer countries. "Focus Mode" (The New Yorker, 12-20): writer-machine interface. Action reports (esp. Kazakhstan, Serbia, Paris).blockquote>

01-04-2022

[audio]

Covid and other diseases. "The Land" by JZ. Dirty mining (lithium, cobalt, nickel) for a "Green" future! Alexa tells kid to electrocute herself. "Untact" - hideous new level of estrangement: Anti human contact. The Making of Incarnation by Tom McCarthy(life usurped by technology). More say they'll never have children. Mass shootings, winter wildfires,recalls. Taste the TV, a wonderful tech breakthrough. Arsons!

2021

12-28-2021

[audio]

Teen immiseration and despair. Dave Eggers' The Every: A must read. Anti-vax follies. Homicide by cops stays high despite protests. r/antiwork has 1.4 million members. Anti-Alexas privacy concerns mount. Worker resistance, some of it outside Organized Labor control. Big far-Right threat?? Action news..

12-21-2021

[audio]

Podcast interviews. Covid news. Schools closed Friday due to TikTok alarm, against backdrop of more school shootings. Arson attacks in Japan, mass violence spreading. Global warming now officially an "emerging threat" to U.S. economy. Tech vulnerabilities. E-sports gain ground in a tattered techno mental health landscape. Resistance news, victories.

12-14-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. "Birds Do Not Exist" - brilliant. A "Black Box" for the planet (NYT 12-11). Increased anxiety, suicidal ideation, depression among students. Suicide attempts among girls up 51%. Dream: instant "art" from an app. Mega-tornado in month least likely to see tornados. Young Latinos dying of COVID in alarming numbers (LAT 12-04). Multiple fires in dry Idaho. Re-sistance briefs. Solstice - new light - ahead.

12-07-2021

[audio]

Once-radical Kingsnorth hits new low. Anti-vaxism as conspiracy 'theory'. Dire enviro news e.g. blizzard in Hawaii, prairies burn in Montana, NE Brazil becomes desert, world's worst pollution. The existential gamble of the Metaverse: tech uber alles? Miami's Art Basel now digital, virtual. Artificial Intimacy: Virtual Friends, Digital Lovers, and Algorithmic Match- Makers by Rob Brooks. Mass shootings resume. Theartbeat of Trees by Peter Wohlleben. Action news near and far.

11-30-2021

[audio]

"Time, Domestication, Stress": Laylabdel-Rahm presents. Hunter-gatherer references on rise. Pandemic death toll marches on, anti-vaxxers have blood on their hands Falling faith in basic institutions. Delphi: AI designed to make moral choices. More on recent books. "We're Longing for the One Thing the Metaverse Can't Give Us" : human touch. Yassification(?) Varieties of resistance.

11-23-2021

[audio]

Deep Adaptation: shocking surrender-to-catastrophe movement. Anarcho-primitivist review of Graeber-Wengrow book by JZ. Sign of the times: LA's Staples Center becomes Crypto.com Arena. Desert tortoise next on extinction list. Qanon: "a threat to American democracy"(?) The Every by Dave Eggers. All glaciers may be gone in 20 years. Mental health in tatters, especially among youth. Panopto classroom surveillance. Resistance reports.

11-16-2021

[audio]

Excellent a-p get-together in Portland. Phoney climate summit in Glasgow. Geo-engineering our only "hope"? The Machine marches on. Seoul city govt. signs onto Metaverse, as 3 out of 4 Americans think Facebook makes society worse. Much distrust, anti-civ ideas make headway, scaring Graeber-Wengrow types. Powerful "Zuckerberg" poem. A Hunter-gatherer Guide to the 21st Century - nothing of the sort says Mark Seely, rather a thinly -veiled transhumanist effort! Mnemophrenia movie - what is real in a VR world? Resistance news.

11-09-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Save the Atlanta Forest campaign presentation at U of O. "Metaverse? Are You Kidding Me?" (NYT 11-1). "Is the Problem Facebook? Or the Internet?" (NYT 11-4). Tech's effort to control everything. "Work? I Think it Numbs You Somehow" (NYT 11-2). Seamus McGraw's From a Taller Tower: The Rise of the American Mass Shooter: no greater silence than that between shootings. Mass society, mass violence. How to Blow up a Pipeline: Learning to Fight in a World on Fire by Andreas Malm: why are we not seeing property damage, sabotage? U.S. life expectancy declining. Action briefs.

11-02-2021

[audio]

Intercontinental Zoom conference on time and domestication.A radical thaw? Something's in the air. More erratic and extreme weather as Glsagow climate summit convenes - "the last best hope" (NYT 10-30) (?!). Being a Human by Charles Foster looks wonderful, nails domestication. 70% of Americans think social media "do more harm than good," only 20% see it the other way.Elon Musk's SpaceX has leaking toilets problems,Roblox games site down for days.Resistance briefs.

10-26-2021

[audio]

Preview opinion of Graeber and Wengrow's new book, The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Everything. Climate crisis impacts across the board, in every field.Anti-work pervasive, Squid Game repulsive. Dune - a cautionary tale? Micro-plastics, "forever" chemicals" EVERYWHERE. Extreme heat deaths way under-reported. Byung-Chul Han's latest, Capitalism and the Death Drive discussed.Resistance notes.

10-19-2021

[audio]

"The Great Resignation" (The Atlantic 10-15) and related 'revolt against work' aspects. "Presence" poem from Bill in California. Rising plastic, rising seas, rising dis-ease/disquiet. Various tech fails, outages. Upload, an opera that blurs distinction between humand machine, a popular theme. QR code tattoo popularity. Annual weight of e-waste equal to that of China's Great Wall. Wire your brain to short-circuit depression, literally.Byung-Chul Han books. Action news.

10-12-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Report on Sojourner Truth book launch In Gary IN. Two global Facebook outages last week, as it becomes even clearer how FB and its apps damage society and teens in particular. 6x more heat deaths in California 2010-2019 than thought. Deepening "eco-anxiety" according to British Medical Journal. Glaeser and Cutter's Survival of the City book is pro-city even as it acknowledges the "demons that accompany density"(!) Earth, moon dimming ("earthshine"),absorbing more heat, worsening climate crisis. Action news.

10-05-2021

[audio]

Baudrillard, Biyung-Chul Han discussed. The cancer of "infrastructure," less than half of deaths by cops reported. Infants' poop has 10x the microplastics of adults.' Huge craters from methane explosions in Siberia. Amazon's Astro home robot sees, hears all. Massive carbon footprint of computers. Melting face emoji perfect fit for anxious, exhausted life-world. Action briefs, nature strikes back.

09-28-2021

[audio]

Half of world youth think "humanity is doomed"(The Independent, 9/14). Mass shootings in Russia, Tennessee. TikTok news: indigenous woman, culture now media hit; trashing school bathrooms big craze. "Mark Zuckerberg's 'Metaverse' Is a Dystopian Nightmare" by Jacobin's Ryan Zickgraf. US Covid deaths surpass that of 1918-1919 flu pandemic. "Ebooks Are an Abomination" by Ian Bogost. Workers quitting in droves, action news.

09-21-2021

[audio]

"Are We In the Last Days of Civilization?" (Vice News, 9/18).Latest global overheating catastrophe news. The great resignation continues. Potty-trained cows; zebras escape. Thousand of birds slaughtered by NYC high-rises. Covid deaths; ozone hole grows. "Virtual Reality Will Conquer Your Face" (NYT, 9/18), as metaverse spreads. Resistance news.

09-14-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. 9/11 and the world system. Local columnist wonders whatever happened to connection, place (R-G, 9/11). Always a tech "solution" to every manner of alienation. Workers still not working. CBS's "The Activist" series: online idiocy. Irish robot teaches many subjects (Irish Times, 8/30).Climate disaster marches on. Osaka, Japan cafe: no face-to-face contact allowed. Giant rodents attack luxury Buenos Aires gated community, LA bank trashed.

09-07-2021

[audio]

Impact of overlapping disasters. Civilization itself begins to enter awareness(?) "The new norm," "the new dystopia." "Grace"by JZ. Playstation's "Season" game: experience last moments of dying cultures. Emergentism: will robots attain consciousness upon further development? Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke: massive, literal iPhone addiction. More on "metaverse" from Facebook. In Dixie Fire wolf pack survives, cattle herd perishes. 54% of youth have suicidal thoughts (CBS News, 8/26). Resistance news.

08-24-2021

[audio]

David Rovics controversy: a basic tactical question. Afghanistan - history, resistance to Taliban rule. Mounting Covid death toll among cops - too stupid to vaccinate. Benefit cut-offs NOT easing work avoidance. Rainfall on highest point of Greenland's Ice Sheet, 1st time in recorded history as Greenland loses 800 billion tons of ice per year. Global inflammation at all levels. Believers: Making a Life at the End of the World by Lise Wells. Resistance briefs.

08-17-2021

[audio]

FOIA request update. Two poems. Heat, fires, drought. UN Report: climate crisis getting much worse, much faster. e.g. July hottest month ever. As Covid onslaught worsens, Left remains blind, irrelevant.12 Bytes by Jeanette Winterson: hymn totechnology, techno-future. Google's Find My Device for the phone-addicted. Wired: "I Think an AIs Flirting with Me. Is It OK to Flirt Back?" (!) Mass shooting in SW England. Action reports.

08-10-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Covid rages, kills last Awa hunter-gatherer. What do we owe each other? Are fires becoming "unfightable"? "What if Humans Just Can't Get Along Anymore?" Internet deepens the problem. (NYT, 8/4) Robot "Pepper" a big flop at faking being human. Atlantic current weakest in over 1,000 years: dire consequences ahead for Northern Hemisphere."Suburbs of Surveillance" (Bloomberg City Lab, 8/4). Resistance briefs.

08-03-2021

[audio]

Immiseration and technology go hand in hand. Olympics R.I.P. Devastating extremes of weather. Greenland ice is going fast. Loneliness breeds bad health and pushes authoritarian thinking. Great Salt Lake drying up. Facebook moving from social media company to "metaverse company."[VR] TERF hatred of trans folks. Tech failures, tech future (e.g. total surveillance,total plunder of the earth). Action news.

07-27-2021

[audio]

Pessimism sets in as pandemic and climate fester harshly. Olympics fiasco. Covid deaths likely top 3 million india. US life expectancy falls 1 and 1/2 years in 2020. Eric Clapton won't perform where vaccinations are mandated, a nice add-on to his notorious racism. Chris Hedges: "the great majority of antifand black bloc folks are cops." "The Jessica Simulation: Love & Loss in the Age of AI (SF Chronicle, 7/23). Google tweaks emoji designs to make them more universal/standardized. Hyundai Ad of the Week: robots dancing with robot-like BTS K-pop band. Action news.

07-20-2021

[audio]

FOIA follies. Covid marches on; thank you, anti-vaxxers! Letter from Serbia. Major study finds 1972 MIT prediction of probable collapse right on schedule. Recalls galore. "Simplicity" by JZ. Drug deaths set record, sea of shootings. Loneliness epidemic. Impacts of severe heat, flooding in Europe. Amazon now releasing carbon, not storing it.. Pathologies of late civilization and Left's basic blindness e.g. Wayne Price.

07-13-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts.Severe heat, West on fire. Covid realities vs. white privilege. NY subway system, city of Chicago: bleak futures. Where is consciousness? Brandeis U. cancels 'trigger warnings' - may themselves trigger (!) "Why Can't We Be Friends" (Real Life, July 1): social media "parasocial" interaction is false answer to disconnectedness. "Trees Give UsLife. The Fake Ones [cell towers] Give Us Tik-Tok" (LA Times, June 30). Indigenous groups stop Harvard geo-engineering project and other resistance news from all over.

06-29-2021

[audio]

Tang Ping ("lying flat"): Chinese anti-work phenomenon, aspects in other countries. Robots as companions: debased response to loneliness. Mega canal planned for Istanbul area, more dead bodies of water, desert plants dying at alarming rate. Heat waves, other weather extremes. 12-story Miami condo collapse. QAnon invades New Age circles. Simlish, BTS for the brain-dead. Bismuth - clean energy of the future! Resistance news.

06-22-2021

[audio]

Earth's trapped heat has doubled in just 14 years. Closing in on 300 mass shootings so far in 2021. Growing global mental health crisis over enviro devastation. Digital pet toys; robotic pets for the old who are "Home and Alone" (The New Yorker, May 31). "Regression" by JZ. "Should We Be Concerned that the decisions of AIs Are Inscrutable?" (Aeon, June 14), "Where Are All the Wild Things, Daddy?" (NYT, June 20). Climate refugees, mounting Covid-19 deaths, work refusal. Action reports.

06-15-2021

[audio]

Kathan reinstated! A-p gathering in Portland. Sri Lanka's worst beach pollution ever,"sea snot" hastens death of Turkey's Sea of Marmara (already a mainly dead sea like the Gulf of Mexico). Almost 50 million Americans have only one - or no-one - to run to for help. The odyssey of an elephant herd in China. Further zombification for smartphone zombies. Apple can tell you how you are. Gigantic energy drain of cryptocurrency mining. Julian Cribb's Earth Detox: How and Why We Must Clean Up our Planet (25,000 die of contamination daily). Horrors of biotech, war on nature discussed in 2nd Nature: Scenes from a World Remade by Nathaniel Rich. Resistance briefs.

06-08-2021

[audio]

Anarchist anti-vaxxers? (reply to "free spirit"). Cyberattack frenzy. Kids with zero contact with natural world. Miami needs 20' sea wall. Tech is constant enveloping context e.g. Amazon providing high tech "ZenBooths" for stressed workers; "Tell It To Woebot" (NYT June 1); Walmart employees to be online 24/7. Lurking: How A Person Became a User by Joannes McNeil (online culture). Action reports.

06-01-2021

[audio]

Fossil Men: The quest for the Oldest Skeleton and the Origins of Humankind by Kermit Pattison. "A Snarky Anarky Poem" by Jen. "The Great Resignation" (NBC News May 30): Work? No thanks. New Chernobyl problem. Shootings coast to coast. Pilotless planes? Worker blues at high-tech firms. Action news.

05-25-2021

[audio]

Cease-fire reached one day after Italian dockworkers refuse to load Israeli weapons ship. The pig Chauvin charged with murder day after Minneapolis police station torched. "The Flight of Abstraction" by JZ. Civ. is a work machine. Half a billion are overworked. National parks, reserves fail to protect re: species loss, deforestation, etc. Drought, fires in West as planet overheats. Moor Mother, resistance news. "How the Personal Computer Broke the Human Body" (Vice Motherboard) Seeing Silicon Valley: Life Inside a Fraying America by Meehand Turner.

05-18-2021

[audio]

Zionist assault on Gaza, latest Israeli atrocity. Cyberattacks have free rein. 'Help Wanted' - Is there a revolt against work? Blackouts threaten entire U.S. West. Universal contamination of American women's breast milk. Zooming worsens epidemic loneliness. IBT Fast Start, May 11: "The advent of social media came with claims that it would bring people together and harness a new-found sense of unity. Two decades later, we couldn't be farther apart." Smartphones the "death of proximity." Oak#3,Yes, Human out now. Action news.

05-11-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. 23 ton space junk "tumbled out of control" - rather like civ is doing. Global pandemic rages on.6th-grade girl opens fire at her Idaho school. Major mining required for 'green, sustainable'(!) technology. "Why Are So Many Children Nearsighted?" (May 4 NYT): kids online not outdoors. Techo-king Elon Musk hosts SNL: The purveyors of the Industrial Revolution were hated, spat upon, not celebrated. Permalink and other bio-engineering Franken-horrors. 11 states have abolished death penalty in past 16 years but state murder continues. 'Road rage' spreads to airliners. Resistance news.

05-04-2021

[audio]

"Zombie Apocalypse" india first-hand. These are the plague days. Bone-dry West: fire season begins. California's carbon offset credits increase pollution not reduce it. "A Stark Inequality" with each breath (NYT, 4/29): air pollution and Blacks. "Driverless" cars require constant surveillance. Toyota builds a city for self-driving cars. American musical about mental health a hit across China. Crohn's Disease on rise everywhere."Be Skeptical of Virtual Medicine" by Elizabeth Rosenthat: a partial critique. The rise of big data psychiatry. "Hunting for Stone" by James V. Morgan (Oak journal #3). Action reports.

04-27-2021

[audio]

Police killings, mass shootings not slowing down. How not to understand pandemic, India, Brazil reeling. "Four Lost Cities" by Annalee Newitz: Failing civs marked by "political instability coupled with environmental crisis." Sound familiar? 3 billion fewer North American birds in past 30 years. Peak sand, drought looms in the West, more autopilot car fatalities. Cryptocurrency is mega energy drain. UK postal workers exonerated after bad software convictions (false data). New podcasts, books. Action briefs.

04-20-2021

[audio]

"'Mental health' of the shooter? How about the 'mental health' of the country?" (CNN!) Johan Eddebo's review of Don DeLillo's Silence. Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less by Leidy Plotz. Potato energy. Commies in the park. Muldrow Glacier races toward its end. Katy Perry: "Social media is trash." 87,000 O.D. deaths in one year. "Eccentrics, Artists and Luddites Find Community on a Remote Scottish Peninsula. Resistance news from Portland elsewhere. Cancel culture?

04-13-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. CO2 levels highest in 3.6 million years, cherry blossoms in Japan earliest in 1200 years. 4,000 Covid deaths per day in Brazil. An explosion of mass shootings; 30,000 children and teens dead by gunfire in past decade. Direct action resistance near and far not to be overlooked, as April 11 "White Lives Matter" rallies flop. Revenge porn, high tech horrors (e.g. Neuralink brain-computer interface). Big seller in Japan: single serve rice cookers, as iso-lation rules. AlphaDog is a Chinese robot "just like the real thing." Raft of Stars by Andrew J. Graff: anti-civ novel to lift the spirit.

04-06-2021

[audio]

New books by Laurent Testot and Mansoor Khan. Mass shootings: "Permanent Half Staff."Megafauna overkill extinction myths. Wildfires already. Netflix: as much co2 released as 2.7 billion miles of car travel. AI for emotional learning, dependant on grunt work of thousands of "ghostworkers." Trust in tech companies way down. Kaczynski's "thorough" and "well-supported" (anews.org) critique of anarcho-primitivism uses falsified evidence. Action news.

Transcript

Speaker 1: And if you are the dealer, I'm out of the game. If you are thealer means I'm broken and lame. If thine is the glory then mine must be the shame. You want it darker. Kill the flame. That sanctified people holding him crucified in the human frame, million candles burning for thelp that never came. You want it darker. I'm ready, my Lord. There's a lover in the story, but the story is still the same. There's a little. Path of suffering and a paradox to blame. But it's written in the Scriptures and it's not some idle claim. You want it darker. We kill the flame. The prisoners and the guards to take an aim. Our struggle was so deep and they were middle class and I didn't know I had permission to murder. To me you want it darker, my Lord. Magnified, sanctified in the holy name, crucified in the human frame. Million candles burning for the love that never came. You want it darker. We kill the flame. If you was a teaser, let me out of. The game, if you are thealer, I'm. Broken and lame, if thine is the glory, mine must be the shame you want it darker. I'm ready.

Speaker 3: Welcome to Anarchy Radio for April 6th. Let me start out by. Just promoting something that I think can be very. Very positive, but I know it's not available to everybody, but what I'm talking about is I'm referring to our local monthly reading group. And now that the weather is nicer. It's a pleasure to be outside. I actually took a couple of months off in the middle of winter. I didn't want to be stationary for two hours. That weaning out, even though I do wear shorts here around anyway, yeah, really satisfying and renew connections with people. You know, kick ideas around. We've been reading the books of Richard Manning, by the way. We read his prairies book. I think it's just called grass and let's see last Friday when we met were talking about his against the grain, how agriculture hijacked civilization. And by the way, I find that sometimes the books that are halfway don't quite make it or even worse than that are just as. Inviting or just as stimulating for the discussion? As are sometimes really good books, but this one let me just mentioned the subtitle on the cover, how agriculture hijacks civilization. Well, that’s a muddle. Obviously, as if civilization was just fine. But then agriculture came along and messed it up, hijacked it. Because look the civilization is agriculture. If it had a heart, that would be theart of it. So and he. It the whole book is about the,, horrible record of agriculture. In many many. Ways, but he also explicitly says, oh, but I'm not against civilization or agriculture. Oh no, and one of the thing. By the way, if you if you do read Manning or not his views on megaphonic. Extinction more than once. He says very plainly. People just will kill off everything insight anytime they have the chance, they'll just waste whatever other species is available every time. Well, that's nonsense. And by the way, it's a staple or pillar of racist, colonialist thinking. You know, we gotta have somehow enlightened white people will come in and prevent. The extinction of whatever it is. That's been debunked so many times. It's just embarrassing and offensive. I mean, what about the millions upon millions of Buffalo and the North American planes? And by the way, just last week there was a story about big. Horned sheep. a classic species in the sharp cliffs of the Rockies. That's a big Curled horns they have. Well, once they were very plentiful and not just up on. The peaks. They were down on the plane, not at the numbers of Buffalo, but turns out that they are now approaching extinction and not because of. Indigenous hunters or even modern hunters. The reason why they've they're now just dwindling like crazy is domesticated sheep. Domesticated sheep are the main reason they're facing extinction, and herds of sheep have just eaten the edible ground cover. So now they're driven to. Well, they're driven to extinction, but they've been driven to these uplands. These strikingly seemingly inhospitable parts of the landscape, anyway, that could go on about Richard Manning, but I've got a new book. From Lauren testo. Catastrophes and environmental history of humanity. It's quite ambitious. This came out in French. And two in 2017, and there's a chapter about the last 2 1/2 years, so it's very up-to-date. It really covers a lot, and this joins the ranks of. Books which end like this. This the last part. The book we urgently need to declare an end to this war against the planet. If we want things to end well, if we want our children to see real real owls in real forests in the future. I mean, it's just., he says tomorrow will be too late. This really we're just up against it, and,, it's I don't know. I'll find out if it's. Fails a little bit in terms of. How specific? What is his analysis and what is his prescription? It's it seems vague to me so far. Well, one other book and this not available yet. It's called one the story of the ultimate myth. This a new and unique novel from India. By Mansoor Khan He's actually from a well known Bollywood family. He has seen the light. This I'm I've been honored to trying to write an introduction to it. I'm definitely going to try to provide. It's a story of a woman who is suffering from something like it's unspecified, but I think it's probably a bipolar condition, something like that. So that's what she's up against, but even more profoundly as the book goes on. She has to face. Being turned crazy because of her anti civilization ideas. And the book I'm going to get into it more later, and when it's available even more, I think. It's a little bit like my name is jealous and I'm in recovery from Western civilization. Although this a bit more tragic. A story. She has to face all kinds of,. Serious opposition for her views and as well as on a more personal level her her own condition. And it's interspersed with parts of her notebook which is just referred to as the book, and she has. She's talking about the basics of civilization, which she mainly defines as a boundary problem, as it that's the bottom line problem with civilization and. And she shows you these diagrams, so it's. It's operating on a couple of different levels, that least so. Very overjoyed to see this book and to also to find out that hey, it's time for these really strong books. They don't need to come from the West. You know they don't need to be usually Eurocentric or North American centric works as I've mentioned. Several times sand talk by. Tyson Yuka Porta the Aboriginal character and that's an amazing book, OK? COVID showed the world slowed the world. Talking about contamination. And deforestation. Deforestation actually speed up during the when we're still in it, we're still within the pandemic thing, but. Including the increasing rate of destruction of tropical forests globally and it kept on going. And among the. Ohh what a welter of alarming stuff but we got wildfires already. There was last week early last week 81 degrees in Aberdeen, SD last Monday. A mere 33 degrees above normal. Mount Rushmore National Memorial was closed. This the wildfires in the Black Hills. Of South Dakotand then toward the end of the week. A Big North Dakota wildfire. You know that was taking place. We're still in March. And I won't say too much. I know with my big tires and you keep talking about the mass shootings, but. You really are at an astonishing level. There was a political cartoon the other day. Showing a flag at half mast. Mass shootings permanent half staff? That's that's the deal. Isn't it permanent? What's going to change that? That's going to make that improvement. That's going to make that horrific pathological phenomenon go away. And we'll see Sunday the 28th. The gunman killed his parents. And two others at a convenience store and then killed themselves. That is, apartment on fire before this rampage. This was a legally purchased gun. No criminal record. All this stuff about background checks. It's just basically it's hotter. The problem is so much deeper than that. Last Wednesday in orange. The town, just a little southeast of LA Orange County. The City of Orange. Multiple victims, yeah. He had a business in the city of Orange. And well, this coming out of retirement. Remember the end of the week? Well, this a good one. This was a full page ad in the week one of the news magazines weekly News magazine. From Deepak Chopra, MD. He's the new age healer. Guru Pema Guy, he is pushing the firm Personal Capital. Yeah, wealth management. You know he's all about personal transformation. I guess the bottom line is dollar health. Keep abundance in your thoughts and focus on financial well-being. Yeah now he's a shill for. Straight up capitalism, that's lovely. Shouldn't come as too big of a. Shock I suppose. Well, let's see. On the weekend. Friday, I think. It was. There was a piece in the New York Times Code 19 killed the last Yuma Elder in the Amazon. Yeah, and the Brazilian. Rainforest He died he was. His name is Aruka Deuma. Also the story of the world's largest rainforest. Which is also dying, but. Here's the extinction of the Yuma people. In amazonia? Yeah, they're disappearing. As is degree to forest. Helium broom. A very strong story. Very strong piece. Well, just to. Back up just a little bit. To the problem of what's going on with the kelp forest along the California coast, especially the north Northern California coast. More than 95% of it. Has vanished these underwater kelp forests, which do a lot to combat acidification in the ocean. The latest was from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. kneeling that down. Who would you want? Salmonella contamination announced on the 29th March 29th. The biggest pet food recall ever the covering. All kinds of. Brands this dry. Mostly dog food. Yeah, huge. Yeah, lots of dead pets. And terrifying disease menaces Australia more. This just, into the more spectacular problems. But flesh eating ulcers. This a berulie ulcer technically. It's called it's. Caused by a flesh eating bacteria, and it's been reported in 33 countries. And cases are spiking in Southeast Australia, the Melbourne area. You know it's just more. Basically, it's just another zoonotic disease. As humans encroach increasingly on. Other animals habitats. It's impossible to prevent. Of course, the prevention would be stopping the cancer development. So that we wouldn't be wiping out habitat. And over the weekend I'll close up with this the endless encyclopedia. The week's Terrible stuff from Manatee County and Central Florida. There is an evacuation order. This weekend Over the Easter weekend, it turns out there's a big old phosphate processing plant pond. Yeah, a wastewater pond which could collapse at any time. Could create a 20 foot wall of really contaminated water. It's this process. It has to do with radioactive waste as well as all kinds of carcinogenic. Metals and other toxic stuff is bad news, and it has a significant leak. And maybe by the time you hear this. That will have happened. I don't know. Well, let me switch over to for now. Some of the more political stuff . I'm really having trouble. I don't know if. This going to be continuing, but there's some of my sources for the Action News stuff my briefs reports. On that act for freedom now not possible to get in there. It's got some a warning thing that prevents me from opening it. Also 325 no state which is a big strong staple in terms of news. Of resistance all around the world couldn't get into that, it's just I don't know what the problem is. So I don't have a whole lot of stuff, but I wanted to. Mention first of all. Last week I think this was from the 30th of March at Eric's News. Dot Org There was a story that a feature called for and against primitivism. That was the main part of this deal, and it let me just read for read from it. Ted Kaczynski's thorough critique of anarcho primitivism. And it goes on to say and. This,. This article is well supported by all kinds of end notes blah blah. In other words, they're very pleased to hear Ted's critique of. Anarcho primitivism, which is very largely attack on my work. So it's not surprising anarchist news won't carry this broadcast, although I send it to them every week. Anyway, I've mentioned this before in public, but I don't know if I've ever mentioned it on the air and now finally with thelp I got the particular I had mentioned that I had a serious problem with some dishonest use of evidence. Misuse of evidence. In Kaczynski's treatment of the primitivist literature. And this what there was a quote. In reference to rights surrounding a period of mourning and it's from Australian Aborigines, I think the main source there was Elkin. Talking about what was about sexual activity being proscribed during this period. And the quote was homosexuality was not permitted either. But what Kaczynski left out he cited homosexuality was not permitted, as if it's just a they that these people. Had a ban on *** ***. It's just exactly not what it was referring to. It was. Referring to that, there was a cessation of any sexual activity. During these days of mourning, so that's really. So if that's the level of honesty with which he. Dealing with stuff., yeah. You can take that for what? It's worth. In terms of how thorough and how well supported it was, that's really offensive. That was the end of our connection. I was actually helping him write this piece. I was were discussing these things even though I knew it was going to be anti primitivist piece. And I wasn't the only one. It turns out Kevin Tech was also in correspondence with him and trying to assist, because originally I felt, well, you're in a maximum prison, . You are gonna be. You got an uphill battle in terms of the literature you're access to it. You know, I knew what his biases were and this yeah, as well as dishonest. It's just offensive. It's objectionable the anti-gay, the homophobic deal, the women. He's trying to show that it's somehow the natural state of things. Before or outside of civilization to subjugate women? Man that's crap. And underline crap if you have to lie about stuff. Yeah, I think maybe some of you have heard this, but I don't think I've ever said it on the show. I have some other news. Also alsome zany stuff. This out of New Orleans. How a progressive people's coalition? Helped elect a progressive. District Attorney, yeah, the progressive prosecutor. Yeah you wanna you want a nice guy to wield the guillotine or the axe? Yeah, you don't want some conservative. I mean yeah, that makes all the difference. Yeah, the people's DA coalition. Yeah, that was that was always big in San Francisco. DA or the sheriff's position? All these lefties would come out and promote the. Some very liberal person who operated exactly the same as the one who wasn't liberal would a joke, come on, let's let's have a little. A weakness here. Well, there was a story in the Atlantic April 2nd through by Graham Wood. About something that's developed from Cincinnati. It's called the not ****** around coalition. About a black militia. And man, they are way more militant than Black Lives Matter. Interesting piece. I hadn't heard of this group and. Anyway, we are getting to the place. Where people come, they're going to shoot back. Straight up. It's not only the random shootings of white pigs. Now maybe they're going to.

UNKNOWN: And I.

Speaker 3: I'm not so sure about the politics. Of this nfac Grew, I don't really know all about it, but. That's what it's. That's what it's about. And they know how to handle firearms anyway, there'll be. More about that. I think. On the 1st, the Myanmar government than the military government has shut down the Internet. Social media shut it down indefinitely because of the protest movement. So it brings up that questionce again of dependency on the Internet and social media. You can just turn it off. As they've done in various places in Europe to foil protest maneuvers. You know, and how obvious can that be? OK, March 15th. This just came out more recently than that. There was a rodeo ring near conception. In Chile, heavily damaged by fires and good photos at by back. And a promo of Puche Liberation pamphlet was left behind. I think they're trying to make that connectionce again. Animal liberation and human liberation. As if we're not. Animals, but they go together. The cages involve. All species. Some more than others, obviously, but OK in Salem. Last Monday the 29th. And I noticed the news stories left something out, but it was pretty obvious from the details of the stories about 200 Antifa folks showed up to prevent a so-called freedom rally. Right? By right wing racists at the state Capitol, which has been often. A place where tussles and conditions have happened well, what actually happened was there was no rally. It was just a drive by these fools and they got and some of their vehicles were. Oh man, they came out of force against these right wingers and one guy one right winger. Was his truck was getting pelted with rocks and I think he was even spray painted and so he jumped down and pulled out his gun. And then the cops. Ended up intervening there. He didn't shoot anybody, but man, the Freedom rally. They had their tails between their legs. Very nice here in Oregon. Oh I I gosh, I'm glad I didn't forget this entirely. Next week Catherine is going to co-host. She's helping vaccinate people up there in the Rose City, but we will be connected by phone and the audacity app. She doesn't do her shift until later. On the day we recorded that so. It'll be very fun. Find out what's going down up there in Portland. Well, here's another. There's more and more. You know. It's as artificial intelligence rolls out. In different ways, the various claims that are made. All about machine learning and so forth. There's a piece from Futurity March 29th. Well, now supposedly AI has developed emotional intelligence. There are algorithms. In place. This what researchers are up to. Algorithms that provide the ability. I'll just quote this from. This a PhD student at Stanford. This ability will be key to making artificial intelligence, not just more intelligent, but more human, so to speak. So to speak, they are developing. Where we've already collected a new data set called. Yeah, not only maybe doing art and even music and. So forth, but. Yeah, it's so AI will not be will be able to not only recognize objects. In activities, but they can tell. What is going on? In terms of how. What feelings are involved? What emotions? On offer well, the good news. There's some good news here from Axios March 31st was the study provided first to Axios. About trust in technology. And how the tech sector globally? The favorable views have fallen. Really quite a lot. There once was fairly high public esteem for technology, but man, that's it is really falling. This trust is called the Edelman Trust barometer. Survey 31,000 people in 27 countries. Yeah, this a pretty much transnational deal. A significant decline. And . What really is the question is not just the policies of these tech corporations, but. Are we talking about trust in the technology itself? And I think that's that is what's going on. Yeah, there’s. There's more on that. And Sophia remember Sophia from Hanson, robotics. Out of Hong Kong, there was a digital artwork. That Sophia. Sophie and the robot created. It's sold for $688,888.00 last month. And you might remember that Sophia was granted Saudi Arabian citizenship. Back in 2017. The world's first robot citizen. You know this lovely stuff. But the creative artwork. I envisioned Sophias a creative artwork herself that could generate art said. Hanson, hence the name Hanson Robotics. Quote Sophia is a combination of a lot of arts and engineering, and the idea that she could then generate art was a way for her to emotionally and visually connect with people. Yeah, emotionally connect with the machine. Here it is in black and white. Well, along with all the AI stuff the machine learning developments and. So home developments BBC early last week had a story about these so-called ghost workers. They do all the grunt work to enable the rest of it. You know they classify and label data, wrote stuff that, but these bonded machines aren't bright enough to do it, so humans. And as the piece says, this a very good line as we train the machines to become more human. Are we actually making the humans work more like machines? Yeah, bottom line. AI systems that are increasingly controlling every aspect of our lives. Well, this in the most direct sense, and this and thank you for our C. Yeah, how about the control? Involved in this. Onerous tedious. Work to make the flashy stuff go insofar as it does go. OK, middle of last week. I think this was Tuesday for the 4th time a SpaceX rocket blew up. Yeah, Elon Musk's, he's they're firing up hundreds of satellites. They're they're getting by with that. But they're just having one. Disaster after another, and this also from last week a pressure vessel from a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket. It's about the size and shape. Of a water heater. Fell onto a farm in Washington state. Looks pretty scary. A black item if you do obviously killed anything in its path. Yeah, this was after sending a payload of Spacex's Starlink satellites into orbit. Grant County, Washington. The farmer didn't want to be identified. All right? Well, we get to some benign stuff. You know, we all need to do some streaming I guess. And Netflix and so on. Well, that's another piece. Grateful for our C. This from the Daily Telegraph. For UM, March 30, Netflix released as much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere last year as 2.7 billion miles of car travel. The company has revealed, yeah, they’re admitting it, and meanwhile they, they put out a statement. Part of the statement said we aspire to entertain the world, but that requires a habitable world to entertain. So yeah, we're just working on it. You know we. This incredibly. Yeah, and this the global warming it's you think Netflix you could just sit there on the screen and. There's no. Greenhouse gas emissions. Yeah, it's not. It's not causing global overheating at all. I mean, this pretty amazing. I had no idea it was that much to tell you the truth. 2.7 billion. Miles of car travel. It's the equivalent of your nice safe. Netflix operating. Well, this not a news story either, but. In fact, there's been some evidence on this going back a few years, including. This story on Russian cosmonaut. So what this about is. The damaging health effects of being in space. And more and more evidence, muscle atrophy, including theart muscle. Also brain size shrinking of the brain even gene functioning. So yeah, we're just going to take a ride out to Mars. I mean, this among the other. Problems, shall we say? But it's basically the weightlessness thing. Prolonged periods of weightlessness. It has very bad effects, very deleterious effects. The latest from. The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. And the director of Texas Health Presbyterian's Institute for Exercise and Environmental Medicine in Dallas. Yeah, more stuff coming in on this. Yeah, do you think that's value free or cost free? Yeah, and it's hard to cover that up. These are public figures and you can. I don't think they want this to be that available. The facts of the matter, but there it is. Well, by the way, last Thursday, April 1st, and it wasn't an April Fools joke. Just there's all kinds of this sort of. Info out there, but Microsoft Teams, Microsoft Teams, and Xbox Live were down for a few hours. Just the everyday life failures. Of technology. And there was a story. Where did I see this? Complete with photos. In Monterey County in California. They have approved a giant mega pack. Addition to a giant solar farm and this the photo they didn't tell you what the average, what the total acreage is involved, but vast. So if you think this not an industrial deal. To get this technology, this mega pack battery system, it's just it looks much like the solar panels that stretch. Well, not completely out of sight. I mean, it's not huge, huge, endless miles, but Enormous that's taking up land there. There are other of these big battery storage. Deals like in Australia South of Houston and Texas. Yeah, because they need to store the energy. You also need to transport the energy whether you're talking about solar or wind or battery, that's only part of it, and it's a big part right from the get. This look at this. This what the landscape is gonna be looking like if they. Approach what will be needed to keep the cancer of development going. To keep this suicidal. Blake called civilization roll. And contaminating everything. Of course, in the process, including. The soul. Yeah, when you when. You break it down. UM? It's a fantasy to think this just gonna be some wonderful. Almost magical green solution. Yeah, it's ugly and it's gonna have to happen. On the massive industrial scale, and this there's just no two ways about it. Well, there are some good things but and I want to mention again oak #3. The layout is underway. Might be able to see that by the. End of April. And again, I recommend if if it's available to you. It's a really cool project to have an informal. Book crew or book club? Reading group whatever you want to call it. It's a fun way to connect, especially. When it's face to face. As long as the faces shouldn't get too close to each other yet, but you can just you can be outside and It’s safer and. And there you are, having a stimulating time. I'm sure you've thought of other things and we're starting to come out of this condition and. And cross their fingers against more mutants, more variants as they call them. And whether or not there'll be another one just around the corner has been. Pattern lately, but. Anyway, it's springtime and more things are possible. Anyway, thank you for listening. Have a great week. Bye bye.

Speaker 2: They say everything can be replaced. They say every distance is not near. So remember everything. Of every man who put me here, I've seen my life from the West. Help me really. And say every man needs protection. They say every man must fall. Here I see my reflection. Somewhere inside these walls. I see my life. Any day, any day. He understands a man in this lonely crowd. Man who said he's not to blame all day long, I hear him hollering so loud. Just crying out that he's not to blame. Now any day now. Shall we?

03-30-2021

[audio]

Pandemic of mass shootings, pigs add toll. Fine anti-tech lyrics from The Divine Comedy (2019) and Public Enemy (2020). Rethinking Food & Agriculture: New Ways Forward, by Amir Kassand Laila Kassan. From butterflies to Manatees to elephants: extinction looms. Mega-ship blocks Suez Canal in mega-globalized world system. Where we've gotten to:"We have to make talking about suicide a part of everyday life." (3-27 NYT). Resistance briefs.

03-23-2021

[audio]

Pandemics to come. Theat, the rising seas. Climate refugees. "Why Not Now" by JZ. "Ghost forests." "Your Face Is Not Your Own" (NYT 3/21): facial recognition technology - the further erasure of privacy. Tablets wreck toddlers, songbirds can't sing, rubber trees facing extinction. Chris Colin's Off: The Day the Internet Died. Resistance news.

03-16-2021

[audio]

Peter Werbe is guest. Talking about his Summer of Fire: A Detroit Novel, 1967 context. Four Lost Cities: A Secret History of the Urban Age by Annalee Newitz. Cities sinking under the weight of civilization. Singapore "diabolically" overheating. Gulf Stream slowing (could mean disaster). Paul Kingsnorth now a Romanian Orthodox Christian (reason for his decline?). Globally: allergies booming, freshwater fish facing extinction. Hunt, Gather, Parent: What Ancient Cultures Can Teach Us About the Lost Art of Raising Happy, Helpful Little Humans, by Michaeleen Doucleff.

03-09-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Peter Werbe is guest next week. More on Klarand the Sun. All things covid. March 1 dust-up in Portland's Pearl district. Sherry Turkle (The Empathy Diaries) and Paul Kingsnorth (Alexandria) seem to be all in for the techno future(even as basics of tech are failing) (and the Brave New World presents itself as ever more alienating). Queens of the Stone Age lyric: "Is it too late to go back?/ Is it too late to go?"

03-02-2021

[audio]

Vagaries of dying civilization, disasters far and wide (e.g. entire coast of Israel hit by big oil/tar devastation). Blockbuster novel by Kaguo Ishiguru,KLARAND THE SUN: Are we losing true humanness to the Machine? Far right groups on the wane? Anarchism--autonomy over democracy. Ever more invasive technology, methane blow-outs in Siberia. Zero accountability for murderous cops. Action news.

02-23-2021

[audio]

Texas (biggest power outage in US history) and 2-21 NYT's front page "Storms Exposing a Nation Primed for Catastrophe."The next pandemic, varieties of coastal Australia die-offs. More racehorse deaths, suicidal children. "Why Do Humans Struggle to See Themselves as Animals " (2-18 The Guardian). Mars rover called Perseverance; why do we persevere on a suicidal course? Sophisticated barbed tool in Africa: at least 800,000 years old. Important Crimethinc. report: "From Punk to Indigenous Support," action news.

02-16-2021

[audio]

Are we at a pivotal moment, a turning point? Tyson Yunkaporta's Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World vs. Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future by Elizabeth Kolbert. No contest. "The Next Pandemic is Coming" (2/11 WSJ). Global warming news, shootings, earlier pollen/later rain. Oysters, sea otters die-offs. "Revenge bedtime procrastination." Resistance briefs.

02-09-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. New (anti-tech) tunes from Weezer, Spark. Industrial ag and the climate crisis. Heavy metals in baby foods, no plan for "green" technology disposal.Himalayan glacier bursts, killing hundreds.Wildfire smoke not only contains toxic chemicals but "mind-bending" levels of fungi, bacteria. In and outs of pandemic reality, need for grass-roots alternatives, resistance. No More Cities, Zundlumpen, Gather,Loire estuary ZAD, war on cars in Portland, other action news.

02-02-2021

[audio]

"A Note on Permanence" by JZ. Sharks & rays, bees way down, as seas keep rising. High-tech Japan has 'concretized' the country; cannot safely 'decommission' Fukushima reactors. Industrial disasters, scary lack of thiamine in Pacific. Alexand robots displace human agency & presence, amid general dysfunction. "When every company from Facebook to garage door openers is racing to collect as much datas possible, we can't really opt out unless you want to cut yourself off from 21st century life." (1-31 NYT) Lauren Oyler's debut novel, Fake Accounts, plumbs the existential reality of cyber life.Uncivilized Podcast, action news.

01-26-2021

[audio]

Culture of nothingness: "Into the Void" by Kyle Chayka (01-24 NYTM). The loneliness pandemic. Stephen Leahy's "President Biden Refuses to Make our Climate Crisis Worse"(!) as CEOs are happy, boardrooms relieved with Joe. WSJ reports "A Bid Bet on antiseptic Future." Orbital congestion points to satellite collisions with dire consequences. Ongoing collapse of world's aquifers. How To Blow Up a Pipeline by Andreas Malm. Action news.

01-19-2021

[audio]

Jeff Hendricks, fairly young anarchist, dead of Covid, one of two million. Racist pro-Trump groups splinter with Trump in disgrace."Animal Planet" (1-17 NYTM): ICARUS project tracks tagged species via satellite "to bring them closer to us." (!) Insect apocalypse: 1/3 may be gone in 20 years. "A spectrum of new anxieties" for remote workforce. Japanese man for hire, presence of one human being who does nothing. Fiery batteries, 92% of Arctic microplastics due to polyester pollution from clothing. Resistance news.

01-12-2021

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Crimethinc:fascist USA(?) NYT 01-10: Silencing a President, Big Tech Shows Where Power Now Lies."NBC News 01-03: "a lot of negativity around technology"- 'maybe the answer is MORE tech'(?) A record number of billion-dollar disasters in 2020. 40% of hospital construction in 2020 was psychiatric facilities. Salmon farming gets worse. 60,000 flip-flops found on Seychelles island. Cities globally on course to become ovens by 2100. Dutch book to introduce anti-civ, anti-tech ideas. Action briefs.

01-05-2021

[audio]

Politics of the Nashville bomber. Barry Lopez: Ain't no Thoreau. Vaccination began in 10th century China. What is the anti-vax reality? Conspiracy 'theory' and racism. Covid-19 races on. 2020: hottest ever? Obesity in China, dancing robots. Online 'learning' a flop. Anti-Line 3 movement and other resistance news.

2020

12-29-2020

[audio]

New Years resolutions detourned. Nashville detonation: apparently anti-tech. Shootings galore and not just in US. OD deaths far outpace covid-19 deaths in SF. A record 3 million Americans died in 2020, increase mainly due to pandemic. Tech failures. Dimitri Orlov on technosphere threat to everything. Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World by Tyson Yunkaporta. Ad of the week: Powerlegs - "deep muscle tone without moving." Unions as police agents, action news.

12-22-2020

[audio]

Dark days. "Facebook is a Doomsday Machine" by Adrienne La GFrance (typical cop-out ending). Joseph Tainter, who has shown how and why civilizations fail, is now into "sustainability"(!) Crap: A History of Cheap Stuff in America by Wendy Woloson (how we become crappy?). 9 mile-long traffic jam in Japan. Sandal of nursing homes: "an era of institutional rot" - or is primary problem the institution (mass society)? Streaming in HD is 8x worse for environment. Major glitches re: videogame craze.Sunflower sea star nears extinction. Music of Harold Budd.

12-15-2020

[audio]

Has the Singularity already arrived? IRL: Finding Realness, Meaning, and Belonging in our Digital Lives by Chris Steadman; Is 'In Real Life' obsolete? U of O Knight Campus for Acceleration of Scientific Impact [e.g. bioengineering] unveiled. Great Barrier Reef receives most dire rating. 130,000 year-old stone tools found near San Diego. Unidentified illnesses on the rise. Doom-scrolling. California water now a commodity traded on Wall Street. Anti-gentrification autonomous zone in Portland, Beyond the Dark Horizon zine, other resistance news.

12-08-2020

[audio]

Due to a technical SNAFU, the recording of the 11-08 show was unusable. Instead, KWVA rebroadcast the 11-10-2020 episode of Anarchy Radio with Kathand John.

12-02-2020

[audio]

Indigenous folks across U.S. fight to reclaim their traditional lands. From review of Cynan Jones' Stillicide novel:"...its theme of endurance in the face of loss hints at how the genre may evolve to reflect our own continuing catastrophe, for which the most dystopian fantasies may turn out to be nothing but a dry run." "Can Sending Fewer emails Really Save the Planet?" (No). Line between real and virtual worlds increasingly blurred as hypercomplex tech is increasingly vulnerable to failure and attack. New cockroach emoji - death of the human race anyone? MORE urbanization obviously the answer. Forthcoming: Wild Skills and Immediate Return books by Jessica Carew Kraft. Action news.

11-24-2020

[audio]

Hunger, opioid deaths, homelessness crises, not to mention pandemic and ecocide"-Civ Is Crisis."Why Artsakh Still Matters to Americanarchists" by Nicky Reid: radical decentralization should be our destination. Ad of the Week: Medical Properties Trust: "unrivalled" investment opportunities in human misery! The Mutant Project: Inside the Global Race to Genetically Modify Humans by Eben Kirksey. Amazon, Google expand their reach. Action briefs.

11-17-2020

[audio]

"World Past the Point of No Return for Climate Change" (Scientific Reports) as Covid-19 cases shoot up. China's glaciers disappearing. Art of Caroline Turner, possible Ish production luddite perspectives. Global hunger pandemic, measles deaths soar. From cars to 'smart' video doorbells,batteries cause fires, recalls. Education serves Dataverse. Social mediand depression. Anti-tech "California memory" (LAT 11-10). Indigenous Action of election. Action reports.

11-10-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Voice of Amazonia woman, Nemonti Nenquimo, (10.12 Guardian) much more profound than Crimethinc.'s "Anarchist Program." NYTM for 11-8 features Joseph Tainter's Collapse of Complex Societies, albeit with weak,wishful thinking conclusion. Metropolis by Ben Wilson surveys urban history, with weak, wishful thinking ending. Pratt's "Output" performance: dances with robot. Distance 'learning' a failure - and a means of surveillance, like 'smart' TV.Antarctic iceberg the size of Delaware on collision with island. Woman hunting large animals in Peru 9,000 years ago challenges gender stereotypes. Murder hornets, Godzilla wasps. Action news.

11-03-2020

[audio]

Covid cases soar, weather ever more extreme. Heart attacks up 67% within two days of presidential elections. UK Minister of Defense: mindfulness, breathing techniques for better killing efficiency. Plastics, staple of modernity,fed via baby bottles. Genetic engineering (Crispr) destroys chromosomes. "There's Still Time to Fix the Internet"(The Verge 10/30)(?) Warming: less arctic ice, more methane released. Geo-engineering schemes gain ground,Tidal Basin DC submerging. Resistance news.

10-27-2020

[audio]

I am a bad voter. Pandemic, opioid death counts rising. "Conspiracy Theories Are Threatening America" (NYT 10/23). Colorado burning, Siberia melting. 'Smart' cities are wastelands. Another enviro time bomb: abandoned oil tanker off Venezuela. Seabirds leaving Falkland Islands. Nature Matrix by Robert Michael Pyle: idiotic liberal blindness. Stefania Milan on "technosolutionism": excellent. Oak Journal #2!! "It Is Google's World. We Just Live in It." (WSJ 10/21). Resistance news.

10-20-2020

[audio]

Psychology of conspiracy 'theory' addicts. Giraffes down to 69,000; freshwater mussel die-off in U.S. Mt. Kilimanjaro burning. Heat gap pushing global inequality.Ad of the Week: IBM Watson, 'AI Sees All.' Phoniness of Sustainable Investing. Chinese high-rise "hotels" for pigs: extreme of domestication in face of epidemics. Movies, TV series about tech taking over everything. Recommended: "Alaska Subsistence: Spirit of the Ancestors" on YouTube, "100 Days Wild" on Dis- covery channel. Action news.

10-13-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts.Extreme weather getting more extreme, electoral politics more beside the point. "It is no exaggeration to say that what the next president does - or doesn't do - on climate change will affect the world for millennia" (The New Yorker) (!!!) Scores more communications satellites, service worsens ("The Trash Nebula"). Social media ruins mental health. Barbara Ehrenreich on cave art. Dental school training robots. Action briefs.

10-06-2020

[audio]

How do we cope? How do I cope? The catastrophe is upon us.But whales sing in cruise ship-free waters, greyhound racing is ending. Tech failures abound.Deepfakes threaten history, reality. Work Mate Marry Love: Machines Shape Our Human Destiny by Debora Spar. Brain-eating amoeba kill in Houston, toxic giant hogweed ravages central Russia. 40% of plant species face extinction. Matthew Cobb's The Idea of the Brain (always a tech model). Dishonesty of robo-pets. Resistance briefs.

09-29-2020

[audio]

JZ books in Catalan. Bruno Latour's Down to Earth on the massive failureof modernity. Liberals retreat to Resilience Coordinating Councils, having caved utterly on the collapsing environment. More shootings, including cops. Ocean heat waves. California, a heavily manufactured place, more subject to the crises. Six times more plastic by 2030. All rivers in England polluted.Indigenous anarchism e.g. K'e infoshop in Window Rock AZ. Resistance news.

09-22-2020

[audio]

Warming seas - melting polar ice, severer weather. Skilled butchery of horse 480,000 years ago. Rumor-mongering abounds. Can't Even by Anne Helen Petersen: debilitated millennials. If Then by Jill Lepore: tech is all about prediction (control). 5G: claims and arson-minded opponents. WIRED:"Is the Internet Conscious? How Would We Know?" "Imagine What You Could Do If Technology Pulled Out All the Stops" (Citrix ad of the week). Jason Gay: "Hi. It's Venus. Please Leave Us Alone." New anti-civ zine - Black Moon, from Sweden. Action briefs.

09-15-2020

[audio]

The West burns, worst air quality on earth. 'Gotta vote, it's a matter of life or death!' No, it's a matter or death or death. "Once and Future Humans" by JZ. Worse pandemics ahead, as with wildfires. Ad of the Week: GE: "Building a Better World." "When there is decadence, it is the experience of late modernity," Ross Douthat.Suicide rate among the young soars since 2007. Answer? Lithium in the water supply; drug the population for "community mental health." Climate crisis threatens "entire financial system." Wild-life in "catastrophic decline." Resistance reports.

09-08-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Vagaries of conspiracy theory "thinking." David Graeber: progressive, NOT anarchist. Industrial disaster of the week: livestock ship sinks near Japan,6,000 cows. "Augmented reality" depletes reality and the senses; age of cyborgs is here. Portland other cities carry the fight: courage and perseverance. Mass shootings, opioid deaths spike in North America. Rising prevalence of dementia "global emergency." Algorithms removing human agency.Action news.

09-01-2020

[audio]

Pandemic realities (e.g. domestication, density). Hurricane Laura lessons (e.g. coastline being financially abandoned). "Sapient paradox" - why so very recent appearance of symbolic culture? Industrial disaster of the week.Mind-machine obscenities. Poverty of art today. Coastal cities of the world subsiding. Action briefs."

08-25-2020

[audio]

Election mire. Facebook ad: "Every Vote is a Voice Heard." Responses to pandemic. A plot to increase govt. power, says Darren Allen."Uncertain Times" by Flack and Mitchell: "an unprecedented opportunity" for tech systems to open a "better future." Alexa can discipline kids. California inferno. Primal Roots music video: "Send in the Clowns." Light pollution reaches ocean depths. "Grading by Algorithms Results in UK Debacle." Resistance news.

08-18-2020

[audio]

HOT! World burns but it's OK because we can be virtual! Dependency on grid grows. Industrial disaster of the week: Mauritius tanker. Facebook abandons sea floor equipment, chemicals. On Time and Water: Climate crisis slow motion disaster but moving faster than many think. How Everything Can Collapse by Servigne and Stevens. Contradictionsof "Fairytales of Growth." The Right To Be Greedy. Air pollution pushes covid deaths. Major flames of resistance.

08-11-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Techno-world meets real world of disaster and resistance. Mars mission is "gloriously enthralling" (NYT editorial 8/4)!! Ad of week: "Learn to be CEO of Mars Inc." (Quantic). Alloparenting by robotics; Robots to develop kids' "social skills"; Robot to star in $70 million-dollar sci-fi movie. Hurricane season to boom. Homeless in LA hanging themselves at alarming rate. Touch the Sky film on Ferguson 2014 riots. Action news.

08-04-2020

[audio]

Society is contagion. Extreme weather meets pandemic. Let's not pollute Mars! ("Tread Softly," The Economist, 7/25.) "The City is a Lie" by Sam Grinsell. Virtual fans. Stock market on a 4-month high as economy craters. Online zombie? Go to SelfControl app! Teen caused massive Twitter outage, Cloud computing costs spiral. "How Do You Know a Human Wrote This?"--new GPT-3 software. Dying for an iPhone by Jenny Chan et al. 325 #12 new anti-tech collection, indigenous Nasa in Colombiare the Liberation of Mother South, more resistance news.

07-28-2020

[audio]

Portland does NOT knuckle under to federal pigs. Aspects of the pandemic. Remote working, like online learning, not a success.Gates and Dr. Fauci push our species becoming GMOs as answer to pandemics. Jibo is robotic response to lack of emotional connecting. Google providing emoji replies to messages. Next financial crisis likely due tech/cloud breakdown. Maine lawns turn black. Soon: more plastic than fish in seas. No More Cities zine new from Vancouver. Joscha Bach, Laylabdel-Rahim, action news.

07-21-2020

[audio]

Brave New World streaming: dull because it's already happened. Fed police state tactics in Portland. Major social media hacks and failures. Record heat, floodings. 1.4 million year-old finely crafted bone hand ax found in East Africa. "If Life Feels Bleak, It's Because Civilization Is Beginning to Collapse" by Umair Haque. Ai Weiwei: "When science and reason someday give us the key to everything, that may be the moment we lose everything." Recommended books, good news from Belgrade, resistance news.

07-14-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts, in sorrow and anger. Coronavirus and the separation that is the technosphere. Almost 50 consecutive nights of BLM courage in downtown Portland. Alien civs die upon reaching the tech levels required to communicate with us; sounds familiar. Bicycles take over Euro cities; Civante e-bike from Yamaha - "fitness-focused" (!) Together Mode from Microsoft: unlike Zoom all are in the same VR space. Koalas, right whales face extinction, pink snow in Alps. When will anarchism turn definitively against mass society? Action briefs.

07-07-2020

[audio]

On the 4th of July fewer than 1/4 of non-whites feel "proud to be American." Virus infections surge in U.S. as new H1N1 epidemic grows in China. BLM movement energy not going away. Insanely warm Arctic and fast-warming Antarctica. Flesh-eating bacteria + worms on 3 conti- nents. Global e-waste sets record, video gaming pushed as Olympic "sport." "Finger on the App" contest called after 70 hours. Mindfulness - Find the Right App. "Utopia of Free Software" (!) Raymond Tallis rips neuroscience hubris. Elephants mysteriously dying in Botswana. Hegel, Ainriail zine, action briefs.

06-30-2020

[audio]

Victor Cirone + JZ on Youtube. Apocalyptic weather + "Global Warming Is Melting Our Sense of Time" by David Wallace-Wells. Saharan dust storm hits U.S.; mega-lightning bolts. Goodbye, Segway. Ad of the week: "Science Will Bring Us Back to Normal" (Pharma). "Racism and the Symbolic" by JZ. Gates pushes global surveillance and Biomilq projects. Resistance news, reviews.

06-23-2020

[audio]

Destruction of racist, genocidist statuary goes forward. So does the cancer of development e.g. in Australia, Israel, Kansas to cite horrible instances. Sharp drop in Antarctica sea ice. Americans unhappiest in 50 years. "Actual Nihilism" by JZ. Deepak Chopra goes techno, Replika chatbot provides "companionship." Chomsky urges: Vote Biden! Microsoft ad: "Now our customers can unlock ever more critical data insights on the way to digital transformation." GM mosquitos approved for U.S. Resistance news and ILWU phoniness.

06-16-2020

[audio]

Seattle's Capitol Hill autonomous Zone in Seattle and other advances - as killings go on. Profile of pig violence in LA. "Worries That the U.S. Is Facing Problems an Election Can't Fix" (NYT, 6/13). By a broken window in Memphis : "Artist Unknown. Civilization Unrest 2020." "Life as Civ Begins to Crumble" by JZ. Robot waiter in the Netherlands. "Reality Check: Artificial Intelligence and its Limits" (The Economist, 6/13). Action briefs

06-09-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Glories of the anti-racism groundswell. Militarization, scapegoating of anarchists nothing new. Spontaneous, leaderless explosion. Protestors may be moving past voting (NYT, June 7). Warmest May in history, highest CO2 levels in history. Massive diesel spill in Arctic Russia, national emergency. Gulf of Mexico 'Dead Zone' grows. Mass killing sprees. Failure of remote learning, more against 5G. Resistance briefs.

06-02-2020

[audio]

Racist pig murder of George Floyd sparks nation-wide fury; liberals counsel 'obey the rules'. 80 degrees in Arctic Siberia. November global climate summit in Glasgow put off (O no!). Locust plague now hitting India, a la east Africa. Blood business booming: high prices. "Lockdown Weighs on Poultry Production" - chickens as products. "Why Does Zoom Exhaust You?" The Internet of Medical Everything will bring "brighter, more promising future." Action briefs.

05-26-2020

[audio]

Jared Diamond on epidemics; Rx?: 'more of the same'(!) Wonderful Werner Herzog interview. "Death and the Zeitgeist" by JZ. Weather extremes & predictions. Shootings resume. Artificial eye, robot sheepdog. Online child abuse surges, email medical reminders 100% ineffective. Action reports (e.g. cell phone towers ablaze).

05-19-2020

[audio]

Industrial-scale density = pandemic toll. "Covid-19 Could Reverse Decades of Global Progress' (!) "The New Secret to Success? No expectations," Jason Gay. 18-ton space junk falls. Seair full of microplastics not just sea. 5G, pushed for more than 3 decades, subject to more attacks/arsons, say feds. Desire for more tools, candle-making, etc. "I think our soul craves a simpler life." Online education failing, how about life skills. "Hunter-gatherers cannot domesticate anything, it's against their world view, which is based on equality and trust. Once that ideology changes, the entire structure of so- ciety is transformed and a new world is born." A new world of death is born.

05-12-2020

[audio]

Zoom fatigue; social media detox needed. MORE liberal whining over Planet of the Humans. Climate change pushing pandemics. Greater CO2 rise despite pandemic shutdowns. Elon Musk's son named X AE A-12: hello cyborg techno-fascism. Extremes of global temperatures arriving sooner than expected. Robotic graduation ceremony in Tokyo. End of Black Mirror: "Life is the Black Mirror," says show's creator. 5G tower attacks not abating. Google drops Toronto high-tech neighborhood plan. Action briefs (e.g. wild elk destroy "Danger: Wild Elk" sign.).

05-05-2020

[audio]

Is the pandemic "fake" (at base about social control)? More on 5G. Ad of the week: "Are We Doing Our Best for Future Generations?" (UBS). VR still doesn't deliver. More on Planet of Humans vs. green liberals skewered and angry. "Ancestor Dreams" by David Yearsley, Losing Eden: Why Our Minds Need the Wild by Lucy Jones, Little Eyes by Samantha Schweblin. "Alexa, Help Me Meditate." Hackable humans; Party Royale game "a true social space." (Yes, a GAME). Politics and action briefs.

04-28-2020

[audio]

Penguins on Cape Town streets. Turkish anarchists + Collapse Chronicles turn to primitivism. Oak #1 - get it! Wildfires soon and April's 1st ever tropical depression. Rising carbon dioxide levels make us stupider. Mass shootings spread from US. You Will Never Be Forgotten by Mary South (digital toll on women). Terra Nullius by aboriginal woman Claire G. Coleman. Planet of the Humans by Jeff Gibbs. Arctic ice, global insects lose out. Virtual babysitting. Action news.

04-21-2020

[audio]

Mutual aid projects flourishing, wildlife re-emerging. "Wild Ideas" (NYTM 4/19): animals point to a better world, which we are desperate to see..Only 9% of Britons want return to "normal" life; want the cleaner air, sense of community, etc. to continue. 5G is not safe, cellphone tower arsons spreading across Europe. Global drought worst sine 1200. Sudden collapse of ecosystems likely. Fantasy video games, magic feed denial. But revival of human voice (phone calls). Industrial disas- ters, excesses go on. Samsung adds hand-washing app to smartwatches for those too dumb to know how to wash hands. Resistance news.

04-14-2020

[audio]

Don't shake hands ever again," Dr. Fauci. More on anti-5G arsons - will censorship follow? Edward Snowden: Coronavirus surveillance sets up "the architecture of oppression." Great Barrier Reef battered, mega-plague of locusts in E. Africa. Beyond the Dark Horizon, another new anti-civ zine. Dying virus patient: "Alexa, Help me." AI claims, promises. "Our trashed and overheated world is a slower pandemic," Timothy Egan. Facebook offers "Tuned" - an app for couples to talk to each other

04-07-2020

[audio]

Aspects of the pandemic, aspects of denial. Continuities with pre-pandemic life. WIRED: we will triumph "through brilliant science and research, and through social cohesion." (!!!) "The land is the biggest health-care system." Wildlife, clean air re- turn for now, not emotional health as suicide hotlines are busy. Online 'life' is weak, thin. Ad of the week: Samsung - " television that will change your life." "Out with the New" by JZ. Action reports e.g. UK cell phone towers torched in anti-5G attacks.

03-31-2020

[audio]

Is it Time to Postpone the 2020 Climate Summit?" (!!!) Warmest winter. Motorized leg exoskeleton--no unpleasant running effort! Anti-plastics efforts indonesia: cups, bags, etc. from seaweed, cassava, sugar cane fiber. Dr. Thomas Cowan: modern epidemics set off by tech developments (e.g. 5G). Bob Dylan's "Murder Most Foul." "Withdrawal--and Re-Entry?" by JZ in new Fifth Estate. Ad of the week: the Veil-intelligent toilet from Kohler.

03-24-2020

[audio]

Who couldn't see the pandemic coming? Time for a REAL anti-globalization movement. Online 'life' advance gravely while "A Wave of Viral Anxiety Washes Over the Internet" (NYT 3/21). '. "Machine Psychology" by JZ. 'Plague dread' meets terror of climate apocalypse. Will this even greater separation, isolation remain the norm? Action reports.

03-17-2020

[audio]

Conference call with Malik Rahim, Jamie, Kathan on the coronavirus pandemic and what it telling us. Plus shootings, ad of the week (Lexus: hi-tech steering wheel for your soul), "AIs an Ideology, not a Technology (WIRED), "4 Reasons Civ. Won't Decline: It Will Collapse" (CounterPunch). Resistance news.

03-10-2020

[audio]

"Primitivism" seminar at U of O today. "Unabomber: In His Own Words" now available. Coronavirus - more tech distancing. "Also A Spiritual Movement"by JZ. "Dying of Despair in America." Apocalypse Chic fashions. Robot hand can "sweat." Ad of the Week: Huawei - Connectivity Makes Modern Life Possible." Action news.

Speaker 1: Guys a cramp in towards the end but I'm happy with what we got. Good basketball talk Mens and women's good interview with Joy McMurray. But we're gonna have to call it the quits on this one. I've been Assessmen joined by Jonah Rosenberg and Matt Lichens. Thank you very very much for joining us. Be sure to check back tomorrow's quacks met with Sean McPherson from 6:00 to 7:00 PM. Kubilius and the quacks Mac and KWV Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: You've been listening to quack smack on KWV a. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus we're on Twitter at kW a sports. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM. Right here on KWV a Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 3: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read, and we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the. But maybe there's another answer.

UNKNOWN: Beep beep beep beep.

Speaker 4: Hey B 888.

UNKNOWN: 11111

Speaker 5: KWV a Eugene. You suck suck.

Speaker 6: You're listening to KWVA Eugene. And hey, it's time for what's wrong with this thing I got to. So think of. I have to I have to contort myself to use the microphone, but you're listening to KWVA. Eugene, and it's time for Anarchy radio. We have music to start off with from Darryl Grant.

Speaker 5: It's a record called the territory.

Speaker 7: Darryl Grant for your listening pleasure. Yes, this March 10th edition of Anarchy Radio Carl and myself here. Canton will be joining us to get behind the microphone next week the 17th. And I wanted to throw this out. Finally, the. This Netflix thing is out, change the title once again. This this documentary Unabomber, in his own words. Of course, the hook is that given the tapes. This the first time the public will get to hear Ted Kaczynski's own voice. The backbone of it is the long interview that. Teresa kentz Head with. With Kaczynski, shortly after he went away to the federal joint, the Max joint in Colorado. And people were saying, oh, this you're touting this like crazy because you had a small part in it and. To raises you for. I'm not touting it. I haven't even seen it and. I don't believe that well, Theresand I both tried to get ideas in there. We didn't succeed very much. So It’s mostly a procedural. I understand it's mostly about the family, his brother and so on. I think there's a little bit in there that's has to do with. The anti authoritarian scene and. And the anti tech ideas of course. Yeah, we'll see. It's a four hour deal, four parts, and now it's available pretty much. Well, I just came from a great seminar called Primitivism Professor Joyce Chang. Just this afternoon here at EU of O and very stimulating. Really enjoyed it. I was invited to meet. The last session. This week ten of winter. Term and then we. Then we adjourned afterwards to Rennies to drink beer and for further conversation. Very good, very open I. I think the thing was. I enjoyed it a lot and got to. Interact with the people there it's I think, essentially a graduate seminar, and in a small way it's another aspect of the. I would say growing interest in the anti civilization ideas. This used to be called green anarchy and. And our Co primitivism that's just primitivism. That's that's about what it's mainly called. Also, primal Anarchy and an Academy. It's I think it's often referred to as civilization critique, but. Yeah, enjoyed that it was. Glad to have the chance to get together with these folks. Short months. Well, let's see what do we got here? Oh, I wanted to mention, I forgot to show this. I'm just going to do a little show until Sunday. New York Times big article fleeing Babylon for a wildlife. Some people wary of civilizations prospects are preparing for a one way trip to the Stone Age. And this about mainly about links. Building in Washington state. Learning earth skills, primitive skills, and the philosophy behind it. It's so it's a decent pace. It's going to give them. A lot of room. Lot of good photos. More more of that idea of interest. Is this one last civilization? Shows its colors, ruining everything. Gotta say something about the coronavirus. It's all you hear about. Yeah, various things. You know one one thing and by no means don't get me wrong. That I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theory here, but the impact and we'll see. It some of this going to be a lasting impact I'm afraid, and that is things at a distance. Now there'll be more and already are more people, more students. Having to be online rather than be with others, more of that rapidly. That's rapidly happening in a lot of schools, especially on the West Coast. I think, and telemedicine. Part of the How life has gone. Into cyberspace and. You know it's not direct life. It's not direct experience. And that's I'm afraid, good deal with that is not only being pushed, but it's going to. It's going to last after this over, probably to some degree anyway. Well, along the lines of this. This piece primitive skills. People preparing to live outside of it wanting to live outside of the civilization. Just wanted to mention this from the. Current economist. This week's edition. This a little an odd. Part of it I guess I'm talking about is the Southeast England preppers. Little piece is called Apocalypse soon. And they call they call this disaster hobbyists. It's a survival group, and so we're seeing this emerging too, and probably not in not only in England. Yeah there. They think they're going to live in the. Woods and well. They were, thisn't. I don't know that much about this group at all. Nothing actually aside from the article. But,. It this could be I don't know. Some of this seems valid, and they're not. They're not trying to get people to panic and. And run out there unprepared. You know they're people are going to get sick if they if they don't have any preparation and. They just have this idea. Yeah, they're trying to instruct people on how to how to do stuff, if they're. If they do go out there. I don't, I don't. Know much about the politics except. It's code survivalist. In other words, I don't think this quote primitivist. Thing, but there'll be all sorts of versions. I think all sorts of. Brands if you will. People are getting nervous. And it's this whole coronavirus deal is just a rehearsal. It's a. It's a reminder. Of how fast things could get crazy. We don't know how crazy it's going to get. We don't know how. Hard hitting it is. Of course there are. There are the usual answers, for example. Do not touch yourface.com is a website that watches your computer and yells at you when you touch your face. You know, of course, yeah. Well, it's technology that. Comes to the rescue. It's made by the creator of delete yourself, Mike Bodge. And two other characters. Yeah, that's enough on that. This has enough, and this reminded me of post Seattle 20 years ago after. After the fun up in Seattle at the WTO summit. And how? Young women black blockers were immediately. I think it was vogue. I think it was vogue that got a hold of them. They wanted to do a whole fashion thing. How do we get the black block to sell, just market this look. Of course, I think none of them had anything to do with it. That's just to. You know, that's the thing. The rapid fashion shifts and how they can. Market things and make money no matter what it is. So now this last Thursdays New York Times Apocalypse. Sheik arrives in Paris. Yeah, well. People are up against it, and they're reacting to this particular epidemic. And so you got this line of clothes. Yeah, it looks like. I don't know urban refugees, you might say,. We're wearing trashed clothes, but after all. It's the apocalypse for this week's apocalypse, anyway. Yeah, put me in mind of the I think it was vogue that wanted to. Get thelp of. And it gets women and it gets black blockers after Seattle. Oh my God. Yeah, there's a. There's along these lines. The smartphone will see you now. A COVID-19 epidemic has brought millions of new patients online. They are likely to stay there. Yeah, they see this already. As a. Surviving this particular epidemic. Boy, the epidemics just keep coming one after another all over this late civilization and. Each one and one SARS. All over the place. Not to mention Zika. Ebola, mostly in other places, but now it's like a cascade of. What you get in an unhealthy world, getting more beleaguered and stressed out? Thisn't going away until this whole lousy dominant order goes away. I'm afraid. Along the lines of these shootings not going away, in fact, spreading. It's not just an American thing. Anyway, BBC last Thursday reports that this winter was Europe's warmest on record, hard on reindeer in northern Sweden. And winter sports events in Sweden and Russia have required imported snow. And City Lab tells us that the. The continents coastline Europe's coastline. The sea is encroaching. And this. You know you name it from Ireland all around the place, Portugal. And seeing these eroding coasts Northern Wales, France of is it places having to relocate. Part of the whatever community it is. Started out with the reference to the Trump Doonbeg golf course. On islands West Coast. Oceans getting closer to the private bar overlooking. The 18th hole. Yeah, it's coming in about a meter of each each year. Yeah, that'll be swallowed up soon, I hope. Almost 90% of dolphins in the Indian Ocean have been wiped out by industrial fishing since 1980. Yeah, that's the size of it. Thank you RC, for this. The widespread use of huge gillnets. Factory fishing And my not being this to mention the shooting well just mentioned one of them. Four dead in South Reno suburb. A woman killed her husband their two kids. Yeah, it looked like a nice house, no known motive in the killings. There's all kinds of other shootings too, and Needless to say, gang shootings and so on. Religious fanaticism killings on offer in lots of places but. And what gets me the most is just no, no, no motive. Or very little motive. Things that wouldn't motivate people not so long ago you got to beef at work or whatever it is or normal would have. This family slaughter in this case and. It goes on and on. Moron in Sectomy garden Armageddon. Insect Armageddon. Yeah there I got it right. Yeah, they they continue to. Fill in that whole story. And sex are despairing largely because they are. Starving to death. There's a big long long list of species and so forth. Going hungry because there are no insects. So yeah, tied together there. Yeah, the disappearance is set in motion. It's a pretty basic level. Here's an interest. This a little bit of anthropology corner here. From Science News March 4th. This a study University of Connecticut. Study this pre colonial eastern North America. What happens from the beginnings of domestication and growth of agriculture led to unprecedented corporation and. Societies here, but also found a big spike in violence. Well, that's the nature of the deal really. The cooperation input at first, but domestication, which is basically the controlling those. The competition sits in the. Population as it always does with domestication jumps up hugely. And there you've got to start of. Violence, organized violence wars. Thank you Cliff. And I think I'm going to read this off. Promised piece on spirituality. Where that could be? Yeah, where where could it be? Yeah, I think. We may go past the break a little bit. It's not that it's very long and It’s sort of simplified because. It isn't very long, but anyway it's called also a spiritual movement. And a talk I gave in Turkey some years ago. Young woman said that the green anarchy phenomenon is a basis. Spiritual movement extremely intrigued and surprised by her gentleman. I wanted to hear more. She had to catch a bus for home, so this was not to me. But this view has resonated with me ever since, and I'm certainly not alone. Quote I think green anarchism is unique in that it finds importance in seeking out some form of spiritual connection was anonymous recent comment. A commonly made point. Arguably green anarchy slash anti civilization slash anarcho primitives perspectives more than seek out quote some form of spiritual connection. They pretty much are that connection. Sometimes referred to as primal anarchy, it isn't my opinion in its depth and the depths of depth of its yearning for an altogether different world that its basics are revealed. Basically, I think that are rightfully termed spiritual. To me, the primary aspects include wholeness, which means many other things as much as distance from. Distance of a division of Labor as possible. Presence or immediacy. Unmediated life relate to wholeness. Also, simplicity again related to the other values. Intimacy with nature can be countered as spiritual, I would say. Also wildness the freedom of that which is most alive. So much that is there embedded in the world beneath all that has been put upon it. What's still presented to us? In no need of representation ergibt. The world gives itself in Heidegger's words. For many of us it is the indigenous dimension, past and present. That informs and inspires of a real link to all we have left. The idea of wholeness and connection. Is often called spirit by native people. The association with breath and life is a little mark of spirit. Excuse me Found in. Many times in places spiritual sites were of course wild. For many of us it is. No, excuse me, indigenous spiritual practices are land based. As Gonzales and Nelson point out. Land is everything to Native American peoples for several reasons. This an earth grounded spirituality that does not lose connection to the land has a bond with all life on the land. For example. For the Upid society included both humand non human members. The sense of oneness. Kinship that is deeply spiritual and in which private ownership of the Earth has no place. We know what put an end to that reality and what has been the result. Jacquemont referred to the end of the ancient covenant between mand nature, living nothing in its place of that precious bond, but anxious quest and a frozen universe of solitude. Blamed or concluded that only human beings have come to the point where they no longer why they exist. They have forgotten the secret knowledge of their bodies, their senses, their dreams. Communion with the world was lost, and so very much with it. Many have understood this and have tried in various ways to find the spiritual within the barren cultures of civilization. Ralph Waldo Emerson Thoreau's friend was a pantheist transcendentalist who grasped the truth of his spirit infused nature. Gary Snyder Snyder's the practice of the wild. Summed up his Buddhist reverence for the for undomesticated land. In Daoism, an alternative to state oriented Confucianism. Many green anarchists have found anti authoritarian sources. A clear spiritual political crossover. Reclaiming the doubts. 18 for anarchy. Green anarchy 17. Spring 2004 and reclaiming Jiangsu for anarchy. Green anarchy 18 Summer 2004 exemplified this primitivist connection. To the dough. Zen Buddhism emphasizes being mindful in the world at every moment, not fleeing into abstraction or the supernatural ecology first formulated by oneness in 19. 73 articulates the spiritual vision of nature, but in my opinion it remains too abstract to be either very. Spiritual or political? There are a host of nons to a spiritual political orientation, but many of them, such as sustainable spirituality and Green Buddhism, seem faddish and lacking in substance. Spiritual tourism speaks the popularity of some forms of spirituality. Which can be flexible and thin, lacking a cultural context. And a religion. Into the categories of the sacred, the supernatural. Upon our separation from the natural world, that impulse arises to regain or even surpass that previous connection. The world religion derives from the Latin Religare to retie. To heal the broken bond, religion arises through, need the desire to reestablish what was lost. So often as it approached, it is approached by a common but entirely false assumption. Religion is verily a universal feature of human culture, pronounced Robert Lowie. Quote No society known to anthropology or history is devoid of what reasonable observers would agree as religion, say with Roy Rappaport. It is something that we have always done, according to historian of religion, Karen Armstrong. Always done unless one takes into account about 99% of our time as a species. Religion is absent among our non domesticated hunter gatherer. Forebears society was not divided into sacred and secular parts until resident relatively recently less than 10,000 years ago. Religion has greased the wheels of civilization making palatable. Or at least. Softening the blow of the hard labor involved in the shift to domestication. Slash agriculture. In fact, religion became a defining factor of the world's major religions. How is ordered to be kept? As the individuals diminished in civilization, religion advanced advances inverse proportion. From no gods to multiple gods to the one supreme being God of monotheism and Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In his creation of the sacred, older Burkhart adds that quote religion is generally accepted as a system of rank, implying dependent subordination and submission to unseen superiors. Nicholas Wade asserts that quote in marriage and reproductive practices in enforcing standards of morality and political movements and generating the bonds of trust essential for commerce and in warfare. Religion continues to play many of its ancient roles as effectively as ever. Richard Rorty goes so far as to conclude, I think, that if the churches gave up the attempt to dictate sexual behavior, they would lose a lot of their reason for existence. But the domination factor police role of religion is of course hardly the whole picture religion consoles. Belief in the teachings of religion served to answer basic hunting question. Is that all there is? Is one way to put it. Peggy Lee's 1969 swan song. We are strangers in the world. We no longer belong. We question the growing emptiness and long for sustenance. Within civilization, religion has played a crucial role in ensuring society's survival. But it is civilization that has made us dependent, Worshipful in need of consolation. Only a politics that aims at a reconnection with the earth with the holistic actuality of nature will address the spiritual hunger. The need for religion. Wholeness, immediacy, simplicity are not on offer with civilization. Victoria Hegner and Peter Jan Marguerie wrote of Spiritualizing the city. And David Lodge and Christopher Hamlin proposed ecology and religion for a post natural world and their religion and the new ecology. Both horribly missing the point. Meanwhile, millions seem to have found a spiritual meaning in the iconic poster enhanced photograph of the earth taken by astronauts from beyond the Moon. A shot only made possible by a massive industrial foundation. The progressive ruin of the planet. The spiritual certainly lies elsewhere. All right, thank you. I think we have some Robbie Shargel for the break. Good old Robbie.

Speaker 8: Ithala kiyan ithala kiyan. Tainu Vekh ke tainu ethe ke Aaja na jaan Mein chupa hiranda. Duro Vekta Tuchina, kinda si. Vainu chalega puthar Teri Jab de Mera Sabar patani. Sir Tenu ajattara nahi. Suspen mujhe patar. Sonu Ke Meri Sonu Ke meri. Fuji si machaya. Spice mera Siva. Theko Kulaba udina, tika. Fengjie Patan nahi. Sustain weje patan. Jali jali Bolasie Chamakh Japan tucupita Jateng kuje patani Jateng tujhe Pata nahi. Tum Karti Mainu Pyar Kainu Chalega, Puthar main polya.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

Speaker 8: Tu Ko Meri yaad boliya. Teri Jetbike Mera samaj. Roro homens besar I'll bring it.

Speaker 7: All right, and. Last week I referred to a book called the end of forgetting Lisa Icorn. How you can't get away if it's. If you go online, it'll be there somewhere eternally well, this week's. Eugene weakley. It was a very strong piece about a person who's now a student, but she was. Lied to and then coerced into sex trafficking. And that's underlines. The point of that book, she says. She was trying to get rid of take take the videos from the sex trafficking. Videos that were made take them off the Internet and she found pretty quickly was impossible. So there it is to. Follow you around. Well, the old. Now there are virtual reality games that are really climbing the. The ladder of. I don't know if you'd call it effectiveness, but being better at simulating things. And in the. New York Times magazine. This past week weekend. There’s a big article about 1:00 called Death Stranding. From hideo And this really something it's now, experience recedes even further and it's replaced by. They manufactured experience and I guess this really something they level. To which this. Happening or achieving? Deaths, drowning deaths, drowning excuse me. Pretty big deal these days, sadly enough. Well, here's the end of the week. Speaking of techno from Huawei. The most giant phone maker telecommunications company. From China, of course it is in the bad. Offices of the government. the US government this time, and anyway, they're still around. They're still going strong in the ad reads. What connects us is stronger than what divides us. Connectivity makes modern life possible. Yeah, that's the connectivity exactly that makes modern life possible, which is not connection, which is really more isolation. More synthetic. Connection that shows this. To people online. With their Hawaii machine. Yeah, it's connects us. It's stronger than what divides us. Never mind, that's the opposite of the truth is. Pretty clearly they're well, devs is they're rolling out an 8 episode series on FX. With this TV deal, and I don't know, it seems like. Silicon Valley is the big enemy. The big the big nasty. I don't know if it goes deeper than that. We'll find out. There's been a lot of publicity about it. The dependency and the bad. All over the place there's a. There's a piece today a piece story about the crash. In Ethiopia this March. Well, exactly a year ago, March 10th. Ethiopian Airlines The system, this the operating system called MCAST, overwhelmed the pilot's attempt to control the plane. Now you have it in a nutshell. It went straight down, killed everyone, Needless to say. Being powerless at the hands of the machine. All those things well, but VH tapes are back. Have you heard about? That what could that mean? I mean, I know about vinyl.

Speaker 5: Yeah VHS huh?

Speaker 7: Yeah, and I don't. Know what you do with the tapes. Or how they're being used, or I don't know. You haven't heard about that.

Speaker 5: I mean, I know some people use them as like because they have a certain look, decayed.

Speaker 7: Oh correctly or something.

Speaker 5: There's a. There's a filter one of the apple. Video apps that makes it look like. A decaying Videotape that UPS the contrast and adds a little distortion at the bottom of the screen so it looks like an old tape.

Speaker 7: What do ? I don't know how much.

Speaker 5: It's an aesthetic choice.

Speaker 7: Yeah, well, some people are buying it. I don't think this piece that no, I don't even know where it came from, but it was lacking in the details like who's who's wanting it and why it's. I don't know, but maybe technology can go backward after all.

Speaker 5: Video art people.

Speaker 7: Oh yeah, aesthetics hyeah. Well, here's a breakthrough. Been waiting for now. There's a robotic hand which sweats. Yeah, to cool itself down and there's even a video about it, but. This part of the problem with robotics you have to regulate theat. The temperature that's generated. Humans break into a sweat and now. Yeah, this secretes water on its onto its cold skin when it gets too warm and then it evaporates of course. That's the way sweat works. I'm sure this just going to open up every every wonderful thing. Oh well, let's just go on into. Some action Jackson is here of all kinds. This was. Oh Athens, of course yeah. This the Exarchia, the Polytechnic University is adjacent to Exarchia Square. In that neighborhood apparently have bit of a string of events. Concatenated took place here starting. Monday, February 24th. Apparently cops were hassling a street vendor and some anarchist students got into the mix and then it turned into a whole big deal. There was a protest on the 25th and by the 27th the university was occupied. They still have certain status that pigs are not allowed. On campus. That's not always honored, I know, but anyway, that's been going on and. A takeover by students. On the night of March 4th, several luxury cars were torched. In the Mercedes garage this in. Zurich because Mercedes is the supplier of the Turkish armed forces which attacked Rojava. Yeah, they shouldn't. Companies that directly, logistically and indirectly financially support this fascist war should not be surprised if their products catch fire all over the world. And in the late hours of Thursday, March 5th. We shut down the Greensboro Raleigh railroad line used by both Norfolk Southern and Amtrak. In solidarity with the whistle at the end, First Nations, people and their struggle against. The coastal Gas Link pipeline, which threatens their land. This action was done easily and safely in a remote area. By connecting a thick copper wire from one rail to the other, signaling that the line was blocked. No workers or commuters are put at risk by this simple tactic. Yeah, that's been used. With the to effect in Canada, well, I think probably lots of places. It's pretty darn safe. They don't have to be too. Handy with things to do that. Let's see March 6th March and run along Congresses have occupied. The Bulgarian Parliament they've They've had a tent camp outside. The Bulgarian Council ministers and they have barricaded themselves. In the Government Health Commission. Building there. Sunday was International Women's Day. There were demos all over the world. There were major clashes in Istanbul, the Istiklal district and in Latin America. Ten women are killed every day in Mexico and people are rising up against that. On Monday, this a pretty good piece actually. Monday the 9th New York Times the fight grows bloodier over indigenous lands. There have been 200 confrontations. Has to deal with indigenous communities. Have begun to clear ancestral lands. They're trying to get back. Their lands, and It’s yeah, it's gotten quite violent. 60 Indigenous people have been killed. I don't know if there are any. Any farmers? We speak for the land for the forest and to silence us. They kill us. Said one indigenous person that is the only way to shut us up. That battle certainly goes on. Quite a number of revolts. In Italian prisons, in the north of Italy they have really clamped down. They've cordoned off a lot of stuff and People in prisons. They're trapped facing the virus. They are receiving no no visits. So they've there have been uprisings there. They're certainly afraid of being. The victims of the virus. Caught there. And here's a pretty cool piece at good old, wonderfully reliable 325. No state. 325 No state really deserves a lot of credit. They've just hung in there over the years anyway, they report. A pretty nice piece of having to do with theory and practice of disabling police vehicles. They point out that the police really are dependent on their vehicles. And so they're talking about different things from. They feel like the optimum is to set them on fire, but it's also very easy to just puncture their tires and the simple ways to do that without. Without hurting yourself, check it out. March 10th 325 no state. Rather excellent stuff. Well, thank you for this, Jim, there's a. There is a rare buckweat strand. That is, in Nevada's pine desert. And there's an Australian company that wants to mine lithium. You know there's a greater effort to grab these rare earths and. That are needed for all sorts of E devices. E phones, electric vehicles and all that stuff. This a big open pit, mine projected and. This it's called teams buckweed teams. Look, we, it's a. It's a species that exists nowhere else in the world, so there's a battle to defend that against this great big mining thing. This. Trying to happen there. Well, Gee, if I. If I run out of gas rose. Said I don't know, maybe I have. You know what we didn't didn't. I didn't say it anyway. It's 5413460645. You can jump on in. Give us a ring. Thoughts about the virus? The politics of that. All the sort of side effects. Well, back to some health news. Yeah, this not. This was already come out in the last month or in the past week or so anyway. The World Health Organization is targeting obesity. It's a global deal, four in 10 American adults are obese it world Obesity Day was two days ago, March 4th. And they're predicting more and more. Adult obesities obesity cases worldwide and it just has it. Of course, a very negative. Impact on people's health. Around 200 countries have pledged to significantly cut their obesity levels by 2025. But research by the WTO folks suggest they have less than a 10% chance of doing so. It's always great to announce these targets. We're going to, reduce emissions or and none of it ever happens. It’s just geared not to happen. Oh boy. Let's see, this was March 5th in the New York Times. This a. Gallup study roughly. This a big surprise. Roughly 2/3 of full time workers experience burnout on the job. 2/3 according to a 2018 Gallup study. This about US workers. And that's become a sad. Constant thing the not only the term deaths of despair, but more and more on that. The deepening problem. Working class life in America. And it's especially bad in the US. It has to do with middle-aged whites primarily. And how fast they're dying? The death rate is really something. And yesterday in the news. It's called seeds of despair. Former suicide deaths. Or very very alarming. It's a USA TODAY story basically, but drawing on quite a lot of information. Well the small farm. I mean, that's just, they're just gobbled up. I used to I used to work in the fields as a kid and there were lots of small farms in this valley, Willamette Valley and. They were all bought up by Birds Eye. And so forth. And the ones that survived. Well, they didn't survive economically. It's just, economics of scale. And want to drive all these points into the ground here, but the suicide rates. Among all races of millennials and zoomers. Is still growing. Yeah, along with the police, killings and all these other things. Opioid epidemic and some of that. Some of those OD's are suicides. But. It's grim stuff to try to sort it out. Yeah, on the rise among young Americans of all races. This just a March 5th finding. Center for Disease Control. It's increased by 56%. That's huge. Over just 10 years, the past 10 years. How fast that's gaining ground. How fast people are losing ground? Yeah, this piece on rural suicides. It's really. Amazing, these people are up against it. They focused on a. Small farming town in Georgia. Southern Georgia or excuse me in Ohio. Southern Ohio. It's nothing new, but it's just got much more extreme. And as everything else fails to work. One of the most high tech to your basic industrial stuff. This was in the news last Wednesday. Yeah, March 4th. So it is. Toyota is recalling 1.2 million vehicles. Of all kinds fuel pump failures. I don't think there's a week that goes by. That's just a I mean, it's just a commonplace, and maybe I should stop mentioning about a. That's telling. The failure of things from one side to another so. It's certainly time to. Step up to the plate, see what we can do. Yeah, that's going to be it, and we'll have. Catherine here. Behind a microphone. Yeah girl says yes indeed. So that's going to be great and stuff on down the trail. I don't have it. Partly because they had such a good time with the seminar. Joining those folks here. On campus to talk about primitivism have a great next rest of your week. Join us again, please.

Speaker 9: Would have come through. You are return. What are you? Fighting for. It's not my. Security, it's just an old. Look at English. Lose your father. Your husband? Your mother. Your children. What are you? Dying for. It's not mine reality.

Speaker 10: Steps that.

Speaker 9: Said and bro.

Speaker 4: Look at it fighting for. What are you? Fighting for.

Speaker 9: Your return. What up? Iron 4 It's not my.

Speaker 4: Let's dance alone. Saving for.

Speaker 9: Mario fire

Speaker 10: There's a place to. Share the joy of your team winning it all and a place to share a laugh about skiing and taking a fall. There's a place to share photos of pets or singing in the choir or the time you ate a pepper, and your mouth was on. Fire, but we could all better at. Hearing how we're feeling inside 76% of employees. Has struggled with. At least one issue that affected their mental health. When you share, you're not alone. Ask about your company's emotional health benefits. Visitpart.org/sharing brought to you by the American Heart Association.

UNKNOWN: Let's go.

Speaker 4: Kwva, Eugene

03-03-2020

[audio]

Global air pollution pandemic worse than coronavirus. Election follies. Fires, already? Children, scientists find eco-grief. "Video Days" - chilling NYT story of e-emptiness. Action news. Lo-Tek: Design of Radical Indigenism by Julia Watson: indigenous approaches for living. 4 horses dead at Santanita in one day.

02-25-2020

[audio]

One call. Goin' strong in Canada! + other resistance news. Latest civilization epidemic. Kate Eichorn's The End of Forgetting. Colin Koopman's How We Be- came Data punks out. Seas reclaim steadily more, "Solar Farms Are Taking Over the World." Social network with no people. "Don't Want Siri to Listen?" - Get the "bracelet of silence." Robots promised to "feel" before long.

02-18-2020

[audio]

Kathan co-hosted. Even more erratic weather. IRL vs. cyber"life." Stampedes and pile-ups - mass society. Brian Babbs wrongful death trial (vs. Eugene Pig Dept.). Death of Aragorn! Ads of the week (ARAMCO, Lexus). In 50 years 1/3 of all plant and animal species extinct. Resistance briefs, 3 calls.

02-11-2020

[audio]

Mad weather, mass shootings spread globally. Pop music reflects the misery. Facial recognition the move. "The Civilizing Sermon," by Peter Harrison. Climate change predictions suddenly switch to catastrophic. Antarctica warmer than San Diego Feb. 6. Tons more satellites, much more light pollution. "The Age of Decadence." Pan-Canada pro-indigenous resistance! Oak Journal. Action briefs, one call.

02-04-2020

[audio]

Iowa caucus tech fiasco. Superb Owl as Miami sinks. Mass bus shooting, mass video arcade shooting join school shootings, workplace shootings etc etc. "One Nation, Tracked" You're Not Listening: What You're Missing and Why It Matters by Kate Murphy. Boffo ending to Civilization Heresies by Mark Seely. Seven S. on 'We know too much to go back' - what we know is slight, useless when Civ ends. Tech dependance ever greater. Action briefs.

01-28-2020

[audio]

Epidemic coronavirus, ODs, mass shootings. "Darkness Where the Future Should Be," "How We Lost Faith in Everything." Student homelessness up 70% 2008-2016. "Divided Life" by JZ. Rewilding conference with Peter Bauer. Action reports, two calls.

01-14-2020

[audio]

"Joker" and Houellebecq novels resonate. Why? Australian cataclysm, again. "My Problem with Adorno" by JZ. Peak Water. Shootings, again. Boeing/ car recalls fiasco. Ads of the week. Hideous new high tech wonders: Neon's "artificial human"; "living" robot made from frog stem cells. Compostable smartphone case! Action news, one call.

01-07-2020

[audio]

War scare. Oz still ablaze. "Can't Go Back' by JZ. Virtual physical education, e-rosary. The Longing for Less by Kyle Chayka. "Man Bytes Dog" by James Gorman. Why Nihilism? (Warzone Distro). "How Our Phones Became Our Whole Lives in Just 10 Years."

2019

12-31-2019

[audio]

Elijah co-hosts. Tim Ream/ Tom Hayden: partners in pacification. Decade of Distrust, Decade of Disillusion. Home in America: On Loss and Retrieval by Thomas Dumm. "It's Not Capitalism that's Driving Ecocide; it's Civilization" by Kollibri Terre Sonnenblume at CounterPunch(!) No more birds, more on suicide. Synthesizin

12-24-2019

[audio]

Elijah co-hosts. Way crazy ads-of-the-week (Xfinity, Hyundai, Michelob). "This Decade of Disillusion," new heights of obesity in the technosphere. Always climbing homelessness. Phantom Phone Syndrome. Say It Ain't So Dept: Greta Thunberg pushes "Fourth Industrial Revolution" madness. Action news. "Would You Let a Robot Take Care of Your Mom?" Ocean floor mining to push industrialism to the max.

12-17-2019

[audio]

Drop-out communities threaten democracy(?), "The Hottest August" review. Climate summit absurdities. Mediterranean Sea Is Dying. Civ as epidemic: "a gradually accelerating self-annihilation." The contemptible dishonesty of Chris Hedges and Sherry Turkle. Jane Austen fans as the "avant-garde of digital culture."(!) Resistance news. Coding Campouts for kids.

12-10-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. On the rising tide of shootings. Extreme weather and global food crisis. Coyote with rat in mouth on SF street. Hunter-Gatherers: What We Can Learn from Them by Alan Barnard. Bhopal disaster 35 years ago: still happening in this industrial world. Arabs are losing faith in religion and religious parties. Action news.

12-03-2019

[audio]

Americans are dying much sooner. K-pop moronism and death. Discussion of Joker with rotn. Air pollution horrors, new Fifth Estate. The Imperiled Oceans by Laura Trethewey. Madrid climate summit farce. Action news, one call. Last 10 minutes cut off by sports broadcast.

11-26-2019

[audio]

Exposing the scumbag Tim Ream. Word of the Year, Oxford Dictionary: "climate emergency." Steven S's Paths from Modernity. Moon of the Crusted Snow by Waubgeshig Rice. Call about the Agta hunter-gatherers in The Phlilippines, tech madness in China. "Gone to Croatan" by JZ. New anti-civ annual, Blackbird. One call, resistance briefs.

11-19-2019

[audio]

Rash of shootings. "How to Talk to Kids of Shootings." Steve on Oak Journal. Serotonin by Michel Houllebecq, Erosion by Terry Tempest Williams. Comic book movies: "self imposed state of emotional arrest." "The End of Babies...Has Modern Life Become an Obstacle to Reproduction?" Superbugs: more of a threat than thought. Global resistance briefs, one call.

11-05-2019

[audio]

New Delhi air: "apocalyptic." Gulf of Oman dead zone, the size of Florida. CA wildfire analysis. "Resilience work" - not resistance. New low points for Chomsky, Jensen. "World's First Poop Database Needs your Help." More eat alone. "Cali- fornia Is Becoming Unlivable." Global protests, action briefs.

11-12-2019

[audio]

Crazed global weather. "Burning in Dystopian Civilization" - California is our future. "Please Touch Me." Intimacy down, suicides up. Insane tech answer to racehorse deaths. "Self-partnered" to replace "single"? A la' marry yourself? Techno "health" care. "Smart" cities - more and more surveillance. Two (Canadian) calls. Kathan co-hosts.

11-05-2019

[audio]

New Delhi air: "apocalyptic." Gulf of Oman dead zone, the size of Florida. CA wildfire analysis. "Resilience work" - not resistance. New low points for Chomsky, Jensen. "World's First Poop Database Needs your Help." More eat alone. "Cali- fornia Is Becoming Unlivable." Global protests, action briefs.

10-29-2019

[audio]

California inferno. Oak Journal in process. "Ritual" by JZ. Air pollution worsens. 2/3 of world's industrial emissions from 90 companies. 51% of American diet is ultra-processed food. Russian soldier shoots ten. Data-fy your baby: learn nothing. Internet 50 today...new emojis - how far we've come! Action news, including deer kills deer hunter. One call.

10-22-2019

[audio]

Seattle Anarchist Book Fair comin' up. The News Shall Keep Us stupid. "Why You Never See Your Friends Anymore" - work. Religiosity on the wane but not suicide rates. Pope's first wearable is a $110 rosary. Over-heating Qatar now uses ac outdoors. Neanderthals in the Aegean 200,000 years ago. Ads of the week (Samsung and Splunk). Global resistance!

10-15-2019

[audio]

War on the Kurdish experiment. Mega-typhoon hits Japan. Pigs now kill blacks in their own homes. Oil spills, high-rise collapses. California fires? Shut down the grid. New books: Mark Boyle, Christopher Ryan, Andrew McAfee. 420,000 years ago humans preserved bone marrow for future use. Machine learning, driverless cars? Not happening. "Leviathan Alive" by Jason Rodgers.

10-08-2019

[audio]

4. Jensen/L. Keith hate speech in Denver - denied! Resistance (everywhere) news. Ads of the week: astounding tech lies e.g. "Innovation Has Changed the World, Moving Us All Forward." "Are We Living in a Post-Happiness World?" (NYT), "Electricity Doesn't Light Up the Soul" (WSJ), "Why Everything Is Getting Louder" (Atlantic). Iceberg the size of Oahu from Antarctica. Two calls.

10-01-2019

[audio]

Napoleon Chagnon, civ defender, dead at 81. V. extreme weather events. What to do about wildfires(?) "What Will Happen after the Last Fish in the Ocean Dies?" WeWork.com debacle: no magic pill to cure work after all. Most bizarre ads. Suicides up among cops, military. "Just What Does AI Think of YOU?" 27,000 kids under 10 arrested since 2013. Action news.

09-24-2019

[audio]

Global Climate 'Strike'. "Lost World" confusion. Back to school 'gear'. 2.9 billion fewer birds since 1970. Snowden's Permanent Record memoir. Ads of the week (all about DATA). 7 million displaced by extreme weather this year. The Economist: return to commons(!) Two calls, action briefs.

09-17-2019

[audio]

What is Anarchy Radio? Dino Giagtzoglou's anti-tech essay, The Government of No One by Ruth Kinna. Extreme weather, more brain-eating amoeba deaths, recalls at insane levels. Precision tools 500.000 years ago. LA street fair features e-sports. Texting rules, No Tech Backlash? Action news, one call. Indigenous strug- gles in Amazonia, Steve Cutts' radical graphics. Delicious 2nd Green Scare Anarchist Bookfair statement.

09-10-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. More heat and fire, shootings. More on waning legitimacy of the reigning disaster. Death rates up, "The Age of American Despair." Ads of the week (Verizon, Inovalon), recall of the week (FiatChrysler). Tech is failing schools, robot Buddhism, UK cows online, orbiting space hotel, 3D "world-building," and more tech madness. One call, action news.

09-03-2019

[audio]

Dorian: as Atlantic heats up, much more to come. "The Mad Rush to Bulletproof American Schools." "Do Something!" Savage Gods by Paul Kingsnorth: appalling narcissistic garbage. "Abandon the Death Ship" by JZ. Plastic snow in Arctic, lip-reading surveillance cams, recalls, sex robots may injure. One call; indigenous, anarchist resistance.

08-27-2019

[audio]

Eve of hurricane season, of global recession, of Burning Man. Amazonia catastrophe. Heat, plastics, bad air, e-scooters. Real villain is not tech companies but tech qua tech. Siri, Alexa listening, recording you. Brain-computer interface: no privacy even for thought. But Google's DeepMind not paying off. One call, action news.

08-20-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Stunted nature of cyberspace 'discourse.' More sedentism: football, golf, and now fishing, on the decline. Robotic shorts, A Short Hike (video game!). More dead cops. Anthropology corner. Contamination follies. Frailty of online/offline grids. More horrors of modern childhood. Resistance news, 4 calls.

08-13-2019

[audio]

Heat, water, food crises. Denial re mass killings, cop shootings, etc. Ag big and small destroys biodiversity. "Chernobyl" on HBO. Media then and now. "Data spills are like oil spills." Excerpt from Kevin Tucker's "Suffocating Void." Choked: Life and Breath in the Age of Air Pollution," by Beth Gardiner. One call, action news.

08-06-2019

[audio]

SHOOTINGS - ever-worsening bloodbaths, bullet-proof backpacks. "Deaths of despair." I saw a young boy begging. Nihilism and Technology by Nolen Gertz. Tech destroys nature, steals its names (e.g. cloud, apple, stream). Amazon "Deathwatch," fires next. What are we doing? Boars invade Barcelona, Rome, etc. Antifa culture - pro soccer fandom? Resistance briefs, one call.

07-30-2019

[audio]

Summer cancelled: Heat, Shootings. Bizarre current stuff from Lovelock, Kingsnorth (and Lyotard). Plastics everywhere, species not so much. Tech and its "vast digital underclass." S. Korean "You Tube Dad" when human connection has gone. "From Red Anarchism to Green Anarchy" by JZ. Action news, one call.

07-23-2019

[audio]

"Art City" evening. Moon shot perspectives. Steven Pinker/Jeffery Epstein? "O Lost...?" by JZ. Mass killings, mass homelessness. Back to sailing, no shoes & other non- or anti-tech developments. "Was the Automotive Era Terrible Mistake?" No to facial recognition, emojis. Anarcho-primitivism makes the TLS. "The earth is running a fever that won't break." Resistance news, two calls.

07-16-2019

[audio]

Oregon Country Fair - hippies uber alles. Moon shot's 50th anniversary. "Re-Enchantment" - new Fifth Estate. Wild restoration. Cow cuddling, "Please Touch Me," as intimacy wanes. Anti-work grows: disconnect/ discontent threat. Happy Meal toys are killing the planet (Or is it plastic straws?) Will Van Spronsen - our John Brown. Action news, two calls.

07-09-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Visitors. Call centers as therapy sites. Disaster of the week. Toxic waters rising. Heat kills. Disease everywhere. Digitized images of a digitized world, plus robotics. Brain supplements craze in a stupefied world. Facial recognition: tech always more invasive. (Samsung iPhone) ad of the week: "One Giant Step for Reality." Resistance highlights, two calls.

07-02-2019

[audio]

Protests everywhere. 2015 Eugene police shooting of Brian Babb going to trial. "The Last Black Man in SF." Latest contaminations, extinctions, sicknesses, extreme weather. "Experience" by JZ. Grid is shaky, malware take-overs abound. "Chat benches" in UK. Monopoly game gets computerized. Resistance briefs, one call.

06-25-2019

[audio]

The case of Paul Kingsnorth. Refugees, melting, heart disease deaths up. "Years and Years" TV series - dystopian reality. Industrial explosion of the week. "Fully Automated Luxury Communism." Cities can solve climate crisis? Crab shells to fix plastics plague! Horns due to being glued to the iPhones. Action news. Buncha fine calls - and maybe a troll or two?

06-18-2019

[audio]

Some dates/anniversaries of note (e.g. 6-18-99 anarchist eruption in Eugene). Heat waves, permafrost going fast. Rhinos, seals, insects, etc. also going fast. Brain-eating amoebas in New Jersey. Shooting of the week, (Lion Share Fund) ad of the week. Grid ever more vulnerable, undependable. Time for healing? Resistance news. Virtual celebrity, health slippages. Tech companies to lose trillions soon to cool off servers. One call.

06-11-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Bye to repulsive anarchistnews.org. Agency, Laura Drake. Plant extinctions, heat threats. On shootings/stabbings. Plastics, methane, Gulf of Mexico dead zones. Civilization ends by 2050. Recalls, new plagues. Office luddites, (IBM) ad of the week. Action news, one call.

Transcript

Speaker 1: This the transfer from New Mexico to the men's basketball team and we recapped and talked about the state of the PAC 12. Well guys, that's going to do it for. Us here on a. Wonderful evening for quacks. Mack for Adam Sussman and Sean McPherson. My name is Jonathan Rifkin, Matt and the guys were back tomorrow night for more quacks. Mack. Until then, enjoy the rest of your Tuesday evening. This has been quacks. Mack on KWV Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 2: You've listened to quack smack on kW, VA. If you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kW. Aradio.org Plus we're on Twitter at kW a sports? Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM. Right here on kW VA Eugene 88. .1 FM.

Speaker 3: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 4: Tape tape DUP DUP DUP. Www.bbb AWB a 88 point point point point point.

Speaker 2: AWVA, Eugene

Speaker 5: That's right, you're listening to KWVA Eugene. It's Tuesday night and time for Anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John and Katherine. And we'll be. Taking your calls in just a little bit at 541-3460. 645 But first we found this Gray album floating. Around the station last week, it's from Mystic Bowie. Albums called talking dreads, it's talking heads reggae band from the guy from the TomTom club, so.

Speaker 7: Here's a little bit.

Speaker 8: Of that

Speaker 9: At about the time. You must be having fun. You best believe. Try to recognize it.

Speaker 10: No no no. Turn like a wind.

Speaker 9: Where in the tub? They're gonna. How you doing? How do you do? Dun Dun.

Speaker 11: That's crazy, it's an all reggae broadcast tonight. Thanks so much for Co hosting. Catherine Catherine is here from Portland.

Speaker 8: Such a pleasure to be here in the heat with our reggae music man.

Speaker 11: Yeah, in the new school studio.

Speaker 8: There you go. Party on.

Speaker 11: For sure, and yeah, we might get some calls. I foolishly thought somebody could call Laura Drake last week, but. But as Carl pointed out, there's only one phone.

Speaker 5: We only got one line.

Speaker 8: 541

Speaker 11: 3460645 Well, I want to get to an announcement out of the way I just and then we get on to important stuff, but I it's just about people who want to check out American radio, but for various reasons can't get it live. They can get it at archive.org. Within the hour after the show, really and then. Or johnson.net my website within a day or so and until now at anarchistnews.org. But I've finally gotten fully sickened. By the a news crowd. And I guess for what three reasons, 1st and this continues to follow them around the scandal about their coziness with ITS. And its championing of random murder. Yeah, that's it's still blows my mind and we're currently for providing a big soundboard for those who defend adults. Having sex with kids. I think it's quite disgusting and. So lots of. Egoists have found a home. I guess that innocuous news and they. Big Blessed anyone who. Doesn't feel that great about that. Adults having sex with children. And so they they they attack anyone who has a problem with it as a moralist. Big cascade of anti moralism and also last week, Aragorn, King of the. Cynical leader of the bunch, I'd say. He was his question last week some. Form of his I forget which. When did you? Finally, accept reality. When did you admit defeat? When did you come to your senses and realize that we can't change things? So that would be strike three. I just won't have AR at Enterprise News and I told them why. Of course they. They didn't put up my statement. Yeah, it's just. It's just too much. You know, if you thought. About the ways to make sure that how to how to really smear. And put put anarchists and anarchy in a bad light you would come up with stuff like this. It's it's just kind of unbelievable to me. But then people like that it's irrelevant because they've thrown in the towel years ago. So what do they care? Whether it's. And I guess looked, looked pretty depraved. Anyway, on with the more interesting things.

Speaker 8: There's certainly a spectacular element to it and sensationalist. I think it's it's kind of in some ways it's sad. It's like you're trying to use sensationalism to rake up some attention or something. Because of lack of anything else. So, but certainly you know. Going for the sensationalism the the spectacular kind of approaches.

Speaker 11: If you don't stand for anything and you attack people who do stand for something, then I guess that's what you get. That's what you got and it never. It never gets better, it just seems to me it gets worse.

Speaker 8: Hard to see what's the line between narcissism and egoism. Maybe they want to put that on their side and give them a. What do you call it a educational?

Speaker 11: Here's the partake of both. Yeah, and in the real world there's we know trash in the very deepest oceans. Thousands of feet down, and it's been the news lately. All this stuff about the. All the litter. On the world's highest peak, all the garbage up there on Everest. The traffic jam of people and all that and. Extinctions everywhere, of course, one of the latest things to come out is the insect apocalypse. It's been. Now the latest. I don't know one more deal along those lines plant extinction needs. We've had to come to grips with this almost 600 plant species have been lost in the past 250 years and that of course coincides with the onset of. Industrialism 250 years and, of course, global warming. Yeah, this is the study. This is BBC News today actually. Thank you RC. And that we we know we've known for some time. The Arctic is thawing or warming faster relatively than any other part of the. Planet, and now there's a piece here about how it's flying so fast. It's saying it's are literally losing their measuring equipment. And then melting and disappearing I guess. Yeah, in a matter of days, several meters of soil frozen soil just to get destabilized and start to wash away. Permafrost collapse is part of this. In Siberia and other places. Already in Greenland, the ice sheets melt season began about a month early. And all of those things that. Go together in terms of the heat.

Speaker 8: That today's Wall Street Journal actually addresses that in there. Practically everything I brought today is about technology and and some of it I'll just have to acknowledge. I thought Laura Drake last week, Doctor Drake was just fantastic on the show. And every single you know every single piece I have here related to this 21st. Technology which she accurately points out is depriving us of agency. We'll give it up. We'll be melded with the machines. But your article there. On the Antarctica and Greenland in the Wall Street Journal. Maybe we're not doomed after all, and so top of the page they're talking about doctors and how, how tragic any humane healthcare. Would be primary care doctors spend nearly two hours typing into the electronic medical record, and that's kind of the the biggest culprit of the mushrooming workload of the healthcare providers. But then they nicely balanced the article with maybe we're not doomed after all. So one of the technological solutions, the one. For technological optimism is the extraordinary value of climate knowledge. So we can all celebrate how much knowledge, how much data is being collected. The second is the emergence of potential solutions. Avert the worst impacts of the greenhouse gases. That we continue to release into the atmosphere with technological measures. So the. Idea for Greenland in. And Antarctica has to geoengineer glaciers to delay their melting, and it picks up on the whole popular idea of building a wall. So we can, for instance 100 meter high wall could be built across the five kilometer wide fiord in front of the glacier in western Greenland to block the warm ocean currents that until recently have been melting. There's no proof this would work, and it would be hugely expensive, but the idea is proponents noted. That it already cost 10s of millions of dollars a year to build and maintain something. Rather, this price geoengineering is competitive, so don't get too down about the melting and warming of the ocean. We can just build the wall. One-size-fits-all.

Speaker 11: That makes sense. Well, we've got. Relatedly, these heat waves South Texas. It's kind of an amazing thing. Going on was reported on in the weekend quite a lot. The what they call the. What is it? There's a. It's not just heat, it's through the heat index up to over past 120 degrees in Brownsville area and parts of California having heat wave right now. And the. Speaking of currents and warmth and everything, the. They point out City lab last week pointed out that extreme heat in the US already. Kills about 1500 people a year, which is much more than severe cold or hurricanes or other things. And Yes, City lab is always boosting the wonders of cities and how everything will be fixed with technology. In fact, in this piece from the 6th, they say in terms of of deadly, deadly, or heat all the time, and this summer will be worse. The data isn't meant to be a cause for despair. Instead it should motivate city leaders to meet their climate goals.

Speaker 8: There you go, that just goes right. Along with we need to have. As waves of technological and optimism and.

Speaker 11: Sure, we can do it by golly, by ignoring all the fundamental stuff. And you know PG&E. Live in California. Power monopoly. They're they're taking now. They're getting close to what they have been pointing toward, that is. Shutting off power when we're we're into the fire season already. Right, so they're they're already. They're already trying to get straight on that, so which communities will be? Will the power be shut off and just in the Bay Area, California Bay Area? We're not talking about the more. You know forested remoter areas. Well, first, so since.

Speaker 8: Well, that that whole thing with the power cut offs I you know, I think a couple of things come to mind. One is the delayed recognition that that was causal in the California wildfires, and that's never really been attended to. I mean, back in the day. Corporate bosses or whatever who killed workers would be put in jail or on trial. Or you know, in certain countries there'd be some kind of accountability or whatever. But hey, the utility company, I think already proactively declared bankruptcy to save their butts and then now? This whole thing of they'll cut power proactively. Allegedly to make us safer or something, but it it makes me think of Venezuela and the governments use of power control control of the power grids and all to control the populations and affect the protests and stuff. And yeah, I mean just this whole depends on. On them to cut the power structure I mean to cut the electrical lines to prevent them. Wildfire fires just kind of ignores any recognition that that's real control. Who controls the power lines and and how that affects us and. Certainly if you're a person who's you know relies on your phone for everything, as most people in this society do now, that control of the power lines you know might not be safeguarding you in the end.

Speaker 11: Pretty close to the grid itself. Just lately, by the way I've been involved in this map, your neighborhood thing, neighborhood thing where you try to. Connect a little more with neighbors in case of disaster. What who has what, who knows what. Who has room. And so forth. For for you know, for networking to kind of pull. And you know, it strikes me that the kind of general assumption is with tsunami, earthquake, or. Flooding or something, but the. Probably the real one is going to be when the power goes off, period, and there's no people will be looking at their phones for instructions and some people will. And and they'll get the blank screen.

Speaker 8: Right, right?

Speaker 11: That's very so. Yeah, that's let's think a little more. You know, along those lines. I mean, it's the same question though. I mean, if. If people are in in that kind of dire situation, helping each other and trying to, you know, be a little more ready for things, that's. A good idea.

Speaker 8: Is your refrigerator in the heat? There goes your food. You know, unless you happen to have left the city.

Speaker 11: Oh yeah. Remember the I remember the Y2K thing. At the end of 99. Will everything stop because of? The rollover. Remember that, of course nothing happened, but. You know we were reminded that everything. And then that not everything. Well, most everything goes through a computerized thing from elevators to. Checking out at the supermarket or anything else, but it's even more basic. It's electricity itself, that's true. We had a little bit on shootings. I guess the one this five people shot in the Australian city of Darwin. Yeah, this was last Tuesday and five dead. This is reported yesterday in the Yakima Reservation. That's southeast of, well, it's about 2 hours southeast of Seattle to our N here, and maybe there'll be some more about this there wasn't today, but. You know, it really struck me, so I guess it's Indians. It doesn't matter. There's almost nothing on this was buried and and what they did report didn't really tell you anything at all. I mean, even though these things are inscrutable and have so much to do with society. Self, you know you look for these motives and backgrounds and then. You don't learn. Much, but yeah, just five people died after shootings and. Just very little. It just strikes me as just a little bit racist to one, would say.

Speaker 8: I was I was feeling the same thing in my neighborhood in Portland where there was a cop shooting on Sunday morning around the you. Know this is. Like two blocks from my house and. The only thing revealed. Up till now is allegations that there was a hostage situation. Someone was being held at knife point, maybe something about a bomb or explosive. So like this vague allegations making it sound terrorist. No, no information on age race. Sex of the of victims or perpetrators you know, just nothing. Lack of information. This is days afterwards. Pictures of the mayor there on TV saying that the chief of police is there and not, and in what they're looking at.

Speaker 11: And it at the very first thing what I saw on that was they mentioned that there was a woman nearby, but didn't say anything about hostage or any other details. And then they they arrived at this other story I guess.

Speaker 8: There's just like you know, and it's not even like a story. It's just like this. They kind of remind you that there's a War on Terror going along and you need to be afraid and. Oh my God, my local Safeway hostages and that or whatever to justify who is most likely mentally ill and resident of the streets.

Speaker 11: To justify them shooting somebody I mean. I wonder if we'll even find out. Much actually, you know. I thought this was pretty interesting. This is from the Saturday New York Times about Columbine. That's famous. Suburban High School South of Denver. 20 year Anniversary just last month. It turns out this has become a macabra tourist attraction for. Curious people from all over the world. They want to go into the high school they want to see where the killings happened, you know? And and now they're thinking of tearing, tearing it down. Because this is. So weird and. And people point out well what good is that going to do? I mean, anyway, it just seems. This is just another bizarre thing and everybody knows about these things. I mean, that's that's part of the picture. I guess that's this is and it's not just the US. In fact it isn't just guns, this is the piece. Last Friday in the New York Times. After knife attacks, Japans extreme recklessness are feared. So it switches over. There were a bunch of stabbings. I think 9 stabbed in Tokyo I. I think I mentioned this about 10 days ago. Anyway, in this case, this is where the story comes from the attacker. I guess now they find out what's one of these hikikomori individuals in the extreme withdrawal, they go into their room and don't come out for 20 years, and that's millions of people in Japan. It's a really sad pathological thing. And now they're saying there's at least 1.2 million. And it seems like they they even admit it's kind of a stretch to blame this on these. These sort of self hermit types. We don't even go out of the rooms. I mean it doesn't strike you as likely to go out and murder people, but. Anyway, more than one thing that's crazy tied together. Somehow I guess.

Speaker 8: Actually, yeah, you could add the another word like your one for the Internet. Reclusive the Kodokushi was another article in the paper about solitary deaths in Japan and basically the elderly being the primary inhabitants of suburban. Housing and dying alone being very very part of modern society there.

Speaker 11: That's so sad. Yeah, they don't, even they don't discover until months later. Just by chance that somebody just. That's that the end of. Their life, that way nobody knew nobody cared.

Speaker 8: Right to find this smells the body essentially then somebody looks.

Speaker 11: Yes indeed.

Speaker 8: Same society, which apparently is not having sex. Also, this is like you know. Well, let's get back to this wave of technological optimism. They're pretty connected society, they are electronically, yeah.

Speaker 11: Yeah, these things kind of pile up and and. And interact and back to the physical environment for a minute they. They're apparently anticipating bigger dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico. This time because of the flooding which. Is still going on. In the heartland and it's washing all the chemicals from industrial agriculture into the Gulf and speeding up how hypoxic you know how lack of oxygen it is and. That very, very warm. Ocean already. Yeah, that's. Meanwhile, they were reporting that methane emissions from ammonia fertilizer plants. That's that's your basic. Fertilizer NH3. I guess it is for many many decades, 100 times higher than the fertilizer industry's self. Reported estimate.

Speaker 8: What those yeah?

Speaker 11: Yeah, the emissions that are much worse than CO2 in terms of sealing off the atmosphere. Warming everything.

Speaker 8: So well, here was a helpful article you probably want to study John. It's called the trouble with office Luddites and it's a very supportive article in the Wall Street Journal today about how to help them. There are ways to reach the resistors and keep an operation humming.

Speaker 11: Yeah, they're it's. It's kind of cooler people still holding out. It's not just.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 8: Every office has one. That's the opening sentence, yeah?

Speaker 11: Yeah, the trouble with those darn Luddites.

Speaker 8: Another good in the article age is in the big as big a driver as tech resistance as many people believe and that that is another you always. It's us, us old folks who just don't get it and actually.

Speaker 11: Well, I think Cliff pointed out that's the the people that just are holding out aren't necessarily old. I mean that's part of it, but it's not the it's. It's not just that.

Speaker 8: Age, you know?

Speaker 11: And the ad of the week. This has been around for a while now, but I thought it's related to the trouble with the Luddites. You know it used to be. Let's build a smarter plant, but now the IBM mantra is. Let's put smart to work, working to change the way the world works. And of course it means working faster and faster because the machines go faster and faster. Thus you have Luddites who are not with the program. I mean that would be up. One obvious reason they they don't want that particular York, because in general everybody knows that's it's. It's making people. And you know everything for a long time now down to counting the keystrokes, they can tell if fast people are working. They can monitor that easily.

Speaker 8: Oh, it's all about quantifying and yeah, yeah.

Speaker

You know it.

Speaker 11: Yeah exactly white collar work the office. So it's it isn't. They make it sound like how irrational how, how weird that you'd have these Luddites.

Speaker 8: Resistance is a positive.

Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly resisting.

Speaker 8: Such a positive thing. So was that actually brought up something I saw earlier walking by a store? It was about resisting and it was a marketing strategy, resisting something rather. You know, I can't even remember the specifics that what more can I say.

Speaker 11: And really jumped out.

Speaker 8: Resistance, you know, like that? That's something to sell things. It's kind of like the Billboard I saw. That said, if you eat eggs, you are not a feminist. Right these perplexing slogans that just. Total nonsense and total. Evacuate any meaning or any any thought to what is resistance or what did it used to be.

Speaker 11: Well, if you were a strict vegan, you would. I guess you would try to connect the dots and persuade. It seems like it seems a little off beat. It seems a little strange, doesn't it do? But attack people are not true feminists if they're if they're not vegan.

Speaker 8: Right, something about eating eggs is anti Simon stir or something? Yeah, it's just a that was a billboard billboard on Burnside and it wasn't real clear who's the.

Speaker 11: Ah, and that's a. New billboard

Speaker 8: You know, sometimes they'll put small who's the sponsoring agency or whatever, but.

Speaker 11: Well, yeah, I've got a I've got to worry about the. Office, vegans, maybe two. I don't know. Well, we should probably take a break. We got some more reggae treatment of talking heads students.

Speaker 10: I can't seem to face up to the facts. Country that's on fire.

Speaker 12: Don't touch me, I'm a real. Live wire.

Speaker 6: Run, run, run.

Speaker 9: Conversation you can't even finish it. You're talking a lot.

Speaker 10: But you're not saying anything.

Speaker 9: When I have nothing to say. Say something, what, why say?

Speaker 10: It again now.

Speaker 12: Diskusi, PP.

Speaker 6: Run, run, run, run, run, run away.

Speaker 12: Are we on this?

Speaker 10: I hate people when they're not.

Speaker 6: Run, run, run, run, run, run.

Speaker 10: Oh, I'm sadder than anyone knows. I close my eyes and say something won't smite.

Speaker 6: Run, run, run, run, run, run away.

Speaker 11: Here we get a little Action News segment.

Speaker 8: Go for it and.

Speaker 11: OK, well I have noticed there are protests everywhere. Hong Kong, France, London, Caracas. Sudanian protein and Sudan and Kazakhstan. So I'm not going to try to sort them all out or anything, but it's certainly of energy. All over the. Place and from I think this is it's going down the registered Antifa outlet, kind of funny. It sort of undercuts. Maybe this wasn't it's going down. Maybe I got the room anyway, there was a Big Klux Klan demonstration in Dayton, OH on May 25th. And I'm quoting here. There were nine of them. The anti clan demonstration numbered 600 or more. You know, I felt that they kind of magnify. This sort of pan leftist thing about Antifa time, after time, they're like 2 halfwits surrounded by all these pigs to protect them against the giant. Number of people. People who want.

Speaker 8: To kick their *** and swing them drive for quantification kind of falls apart. They don't really register the numbers and you know you see the tear gas. You see the cops beating people and you know looks like great old confrontation there. It's like yeah 2 nincompoops.

Speaker 11: Close enough.

Speaker 8: Thousands you know?

Speaker 11: Yeah, it's and. OK, May 5th going back a little ways, but once again this is just posted much more recently. Members of in the Liberation Front from around US Australia came together to disrupt the opening hunt weekend of the Sydney Hunt Club in north in NSW who used enslaved horses and hounds to terrorize and murder. Anyway, they go in to save their horse stables and dog kennels were sabotaged with trucks and horse floats, disabled gates, clean, chain shut etcetera. We are not fighting to change the law. We are fighting against the whole system. Oh, and there was a very brief thing here about the yellow vest movements. This is from libcom. Quote more and more videos show special police groups attacking people randomly even in their own buildings. Police repression has had the effect of radicalizing, and bringing revolutionaries and yellow vests closer together. More and more the common denominator of this diverse movement is a hatred for the police and calls. For a revolution. Like hear that.

Speaker 8: No surprise there keeps on going.

Speaker 11: On May 28th. This was six post office post office vans in Paris were torched. And you know, it's it. Kind of reminds me of the some anarchists in San Diego. Chile are fond of burning public buses and it I don't know. I guess that shows that it's really society itself. Because, you know, if you you could say, well, the post office public buses, you could have better targets, but I don't know I. I guess I tend to. See all of it. They're looking at all of it. The totality. Of it and. I think it makes sense. You know, and that that that way, I guess. June 4th List Tuesday rent control activists blocked government offices at the New York State Capitol in Albany, clashing with cops. This was posted June 7th and I guess it happened within a day or so. Large a large transporter truck. Was hit by arson in Santiago again, and. Use the mail list of 100 deer liberated from a farm. In the National Park somewhere in Germany and shooting towers were damaged June 5th. Also June 5th. A police dog training school was set on fire somewhere in Germany. Excuse me on June 3rd, that's when it happened. And on June 8th in the Czech Republic, somewhere in the Czech Republic, 109 hens, chickens were rescued and near Namur, Belgium. This was posted June 8th, 49. Hunting stands were destroyed and an upstate New York hunting tower was down. Finally, something from the US. You know what this is? I'm mostly get this stuff from bite Back magazine and and they're almost always great photos. And then we can't show you the photos because you know it's great stuff. Big huge fires, you know. Very cool.

Speaker 8: Some of that right?

Speaker 11: Right?

Speaker 8: Riot **** the Greeks are famous for. Indeed, and they still in many bus ride, I remember sharing with locals and showing all the pictures and police on fire. All right, let's give out. That number again, say the phone calls.

Speaker 11: Ohhh yes 5413460645

Speaker 8: And say get it while you can before it's too late, so let's see, oh, just endlessly, let's see here, this robot is a mind reader.

Speaker 11: You got some more tech stuff.

Speaker 8: It's the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence. They transformed the game of Pictionary into a game. Iconic Mary instead of Pictionary. And you can play the game along. It helps the robot learn better on how to how to work with humans. You draw a man. The system produces an icon, and it's just the whole purpose of everything. Iconography is a more complex version of the language translation system.

Speaker 11: Where is that?

Speaker 8: So the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence. Where is it? Well, of course they would tell us.

Speaker 11: Well, we have a caller, I think.

Speaker 5: Yeah, me too this is.

Speaker 8: Hello Alfredo.

Speaker 7: Hey, what's going on? What's going on? Both of you? I'm afraid of I'm from occupied southwest. Just go. I'm in phoenix.

Speaker 5: OK.

Speaker 7: Like high, here's how my heat is. It was like 111 degrees. Also, my job doesn't have air conditioning, so man I come yeah bad. Let me tell you. About that, but you know. Hey I wanted to tell you about this initiative. Kind of doing out here like. You know we're a distro, you know? So our job is just kind of propagandize like get as much stuff out there you know. So mostly are kind of on that like anti. Tech Greener just so you know, I. I really think it's only. Reasonable position you could have. In a city that should should not exist.

Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, looks like Kitty litter, right?

Speaker 7: What you're talking about? What about you, Mr.

Speaker 8: When you go into. Phoenix when you drive into Phoenix. It always looks like it's a Kitty litter box to me.

Speaker 7: It shows the good. Kitty litter box. That's the truth, yeah. 120 degree Kitty litter box. So I want to tell you about this. Initiative we're doing here. We were thinking like what can kind of cut the. Monotony of the hot summer days. So we're actually raising money right now for ice cream truck. We're trying to buy an ice cream truck to like hand out ice cream and then hopefully kind of like expand the distro that way.

Speaker 11: Wow ice cream and propaganda.

Speaker 13: Right?

Speaker 7: Exactly, yeah, well, the ice cream truck lake is kind of like we're. Trying to I'm trying to get away from, you know, we're trying to get away from working for other people we're. Thinking of. You ever see the ice cream truck? You know you? Have you have those up there?

Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, you got the music too.

Speaker 7: Yeah, the music. Yeah we have the music. Yeah well we were just thinking of playing like I don't know if you're familiar. With like 21 Savage.

Speaker 11: Oh yeah, that's what your plan. You can play.

Speaker 7: Yeah, you like that John? Oh yeah, no. You should still listen to him anyway, but I just wanted to kind of talk about that ice cream truck. I don't know what you. Guys thought of it whatever, but I mean hopefully I mean I know like it. It kind of sucks because it runs on fossil fuels. But we're hoping maybe to like power it.

Speaker 8: You know what comes to mind to me is the Panthers and their free breakfast for children program. And another thing yeah yeah, another thing I was talking with John earlier about like food not bombs used to be a part of most of the efforts to feed people.

Speaker 7: Oh the free breakfast.

Speaker 8: And now you know, I just don't. Team around anymore. Don't know what happened there, but so your ice cream truck sounds like it comes from there are historical precedents. It's a good. Sounds like a good effort. Ice cream and propaganda.

Speaker 7: Yeah we would. We would charge money. For the ice cream.

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: You know what I mean, but yeah, I know for sure I mean. But yeah, we're trying to do that as kind of wanted. To talk, talk. About that I've been reading.

Speaker 11: Sounds fun.

Speaker 7: Been reading that book time, time and time again. I think the title it has got that I'm really, really excited. I'm glad to people all the time.

Speaker 11: Appreciate it.

Speaker 7: We got to get. Rid of like like if I see somebody. Wearing a watch I get. Mad, you know what I mean, it's like. Just checking the time for.

Speaker 11: To get away from that. Somebody said it should be called. Time and time again and time again. Because it's 3 essays, not just two. So we didn't think of that.

Speaker 7: It is very good. No, I know, I know, it's yeah. It's real. It's real good, but I just wanted to say hey, you know y'all, you know if you want to I don't know like I can e-mail you some 21 savage links just I don't know if you use e-mail. Whatever, but maybe.

Speaker 11: Hey, I'd love that I. I'm at Jay-Z Primitivo at Gmail. I'd love to see that.

Speaker 7: Z Primitivo ruparel wow.

Speaker 11: Yeah, for real, yeah, Gmail.

Speaker 7: I'm glad y'all you know it's 100 and. 10 degrees so. Yeah, I'm gonna get. I'm gonna go outside and actually make myself, you know. What I mean?

Speaker 11: Wow, hang in there. Hey, thank you for calling Alfredo.

Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you. Thank you both for talking to me. Have a. Good night.

Speaker 8: Thanks for your call, wow.

Speaker 11: Take care, wait. We were complaining about the heat here.

Speaker 8: Wow, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, drink water, drink water.

Speaker

Yeah oh man.

Speaker 11: Well, I'll be hunter here tomorrow still, but. Phoenix, who? And they've, well, they get their share pollution too. It reminds me it makes me think of LA the times I've been through there. As well, you know, just sprawling and.

Speaker 8: Well, we're going.

Speaker 11: To Alfredo and his friends, they've got a cool project going on. Well, you know, Speaking of tech, there are much more. And actually this I was reading this from Sandia Lab. Midweek last week about Baltimore. Under their their well, they were starting their 5th week. Under the malware thing, they malware, electronic siege I guess is the word because they just shut shut it down. You can't get building permits or licenses or anything from the city. It's the city that was what was attacked. The whole grid. For sending government. Yeah, I can't. All this routine stuff. You know, buying a house or whatever all the different paperwork and so forth. Hackers just kind of did away with it hasn't really been you think it's a bigger story, but it's. It's somewhat commonplace and not to this extent, but you know, things are always getting wrecked, hacked, and. Ruined and and of course the privacy thing. Is there too how you can open up anything and share? The bad actors do that all the time. And others I suppose, too. There was a Wall Street Journal last Wednesday, the 5th had a 10 piece section on cybersecurity. Yeah, it was called a journal report and it's just well, there isn't any server security, but it took it took 10 pages to. That and all of the new things that are, you know, the the race to be able to encrypt things. To hide your stuff, that's. Yeah, that's that's not happening either. That's that's not going to hold up. It hasn't held up now for that matter, right? But but a 10 page thing that is.

Speaker 8: Revelatory aspect of of the technology or the where you can. They can use the facial recognition technology to read. Let's see what was the. Got it here. Somewhere financial risk secrets that may be hidden in their faces, just the face itself contains a wealth of information about an individual's. Health revealed their emotional and psychological state expressions typically occur within fractions of seconds and therefore hard for people to control. So you know this desire for security and then the other side of it is total surveillance, so that if they you know. Quiver of a facial muscle, and they're like whoop. You ain't buying that. Home you know?

Speaker 11: Yeah, so invasive and and working on it pushing it every second. So this this is the piece last week's will Mr. Journal about the remember the mad scientist, the Chinese guy? In China last year. That he announced the birth of twin girls. They were designed. This is gene editing. You know, crisper and all that. The design to resist HIV, so this is that's cool, you know, then people won't. Get infected, well, kind of a small little article here called new worry over gene edited babies, a genetic mutation thought to make people resistant to the virus that causes AIDS, could also shorten their lives. Well hey you didn't get you didn't get aids, but now you're dead. Yeah, renewed concern over a Chinese experiment about Gene edited. Supposedly the first gene edited. Maybe then you got this whole concern? Industry handwringing, no, we're we're so interested in ethics. And who do we have a democratic control of? Blah blah, unless they're morons. They know that's nothing but hot air to cover up the on rushing thing. It's there hasn't been anything like that and there never will be. They they just these liberals. Want to? You know, act like they care or something and then.

Speaker 8: Well and actually. I've seen that one on the shortening the lifespan on the alleged prevention or or you know, elimination of AIDS as a killer for people. Couple days after that an article on Pakistan and that kind of epidemic proportion 2 to 5 year old. Children's AIDS infected in Pakistan really wasn't well explained, but the numbers were outrageous for you know, for like it just. They build this House of Cards where everything is allegedly known and and aids where you know that was the 80s and it didn't have a name. It was a new disease and mystery and then now, whoa, there's expensive, expensive drugs to treat it and everything's allegedly. Down and when you crisper it out of the you know if you're a believer, go down.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11: Feel more dependent. And we are more dependent and we're being held hostage. It's just an old story. Well, but after all life lifescience.com is telling us and I think you know RC for this human civilization will crumble by 2050. So why are we bothering unless we stop climate change now? You know one more. This is actually a report that what what is going to collapse the world's ice sheets and then fifty other things? The million animal species and. So forth. But yeah, by 2050. A near to mid term existential threat to human civilization collapses since 2050. One more one more deal on that.

Speaker 8: One more nail in the coffin. Kind of interesting article in the magazine section of the New York Times. On Mike Gravel running for president, which kind of just plays into the whole thing of technology and how it's how it's completely defined the electoral system and you can create teenagers can create viable candidates by just. Issuing tweets and twitters and and this and that. What can I say? Trump was the first postmodern politician. I like to think gravel is the second. He doesn't need to make appearances or anything. He just got a couple teams and. Internet going and you create a whole world and post modernism. That's we smile at the irony of it all.

Speaker 11: Virtual or what's the difference?

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, virtual reality. Put them, put them together and you totally stupefied and cannot function.

Speaker 11: And we we just seem to be rocketing past all the mundane, prosaic daily life things, except of course. And I'm always amazed by how much we're just awash in recalls. I think today the Big Kroger chain. Recalling 3 varieties of frozen berries, Tyson has announced tons and tons of chicken, chicken parts or chicken, whatever they are. Here today, Audi announced that it's recalling its electric car. Because the batteries catch for are likely they're very possibly catch for, and even this this whole thing about the Boeing 737 Max. Which was crashing, and they've sidelined most of it. I guess now it turns out it's parts. Defective parts, among other things, probably the whole computerized thing. That's the whole thing in itself of. What control do you have over the technology, including the plane you're on? That's going to crash because the pilots don't know what. To do.

Speaker 8: Because they don't have the power to change it, they're fighting the computer versus the yeah.

Speaker 11: Exactly well put, yeah.

Speaker 8: Well then there was a article on the Poor rap museum that was looted so heavily and now it's functioning. And apparently the people go there. It's a practically empty museum. Nobody's has an interest really in. The cultural remnants of this, it's almost empty, and all the literature on the history or audio visual or anything to explain what you're looking at or always just kind of emptying out there some museum for dating back to 4000 BC. Just perfectly empty. After all the outrage about.

Speaker 11: Yeah, that's that's telling those artifacts and that whole story.

Speaker 8: That was also the I guess, Williamsburg in Brooklyn. Gentrification of Brooklyn has come to this for the first time in 116 years. Our Lady of Mount Carmel has been forced to recruit out of Towners to carry their. Little thing, the room for the. First of all, the Williamsburg festival during the July Festival honoring an Italian St. and basically then not so many Italians left in Williamsburg. It's completely gentrified and to recruit from out of town.

Speaker 11: Remember the Kundera novel? Which one was it? Maybe it was the one, the joke. Where this person sends a postcard, it's just do some vacation and. Makes his makes a small joke and the party finds out this is behind the red card in Czechoslovakia, Days, 60s I guess. And he's he's ruined over just an offhand. That didn't mean anything, I guess. And I remember the final scene of that novel. These they're trying to have a similar I guess. Somewhat similar procession and the Communist Party was actually trying to get. We're trying to support the traditional stuff to show they care about the peoples culture or something like you know and the finals these these kids on scooters with their music blaring and these people are trying to win their way along with the to uphold the folk stuff and. And it's and he he doesn't. He's not coming around to say that the stall is for wonderful or anything, but he's showing that. That modernity is is kind of pushing it off the road. You know, in effect. It's written so much good stuff. I'm sure I'm glad you came down grateful. It's it's such a high point and July looks good too.

Speaker 8: July should be good going to be hot again.

Speaker 11: Second to Tuesday Yeah, probably, maybe we should move to Phoenix. Well, Carl, I'll be here next week and we'll be. I don't think there's a mystery guest unlike last week, and that was very strong, wasn't she?

Speaker 8: That was, she was very good, yeah.

Speaker 11: She covered so much. Orange drink and you can find you can you can. Get more and I mentioned that Green Street podcast, which is my first. Awareness of what she had to say. The two people that do the Green Street thing were very. Very welcoming and that that was a good. She did at least half an hour with them. It's great to find people that are.

Speaker 8: So her her personal history too was very good to see. You know, like she was, she was into it. She just stopped herself.

Speaker 11: She was a nerd. self-described nerd. Way turning the other way so.

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah. Those are the people who really understand when those people are worried you've been, they're worried.

Speaker 11: Yeah he he was sending me something just the other day. OK. He's trying to explain something. Some tech thing he said. I know this will be gibberish to you. Carl smiles. He knows he knows what he's talking about, and of course it was. There was some how to do something and oh, it had to do with some ebook connection because I couldn't find the book or I don't know, yeah. And yeah, he's he's a good friend and he knows certainly knows his. Way around the. The technological monster. Great to see you guys and.

Speaker 8: Thanks again, thank you. See you next month.

Speaker 9: You may find yourself living in a shotgun shack. You may find yourself in another part.

Speaker 13: Of the world.

Speaker 12: You may find yourself behind.

Speaker 9: The wheel of a large automobile. You may find yourself in.

Speaker 12: A beautiful house.

Speaker 13: With a beautiful wife, you may save yourself well. How can I get here?

Speaker 12: Let the water hold me down, water flowing. On the ground.

Speaker 10: After the money's gone.

Speaker 9: You may ask yourself, how do I work this? Where is that large automobile? You may tell yourself this is not my beautiful house. You may tell yourself this is not my beautiful wife.

Speaker 12: Let the water hold me down the water flowing on the ground after.

Speaker 10: The money is gone.

Speaker 13: Want to remove it? Harris wants us in the bottom of the ocean. Remove the.

06-04-2019

[audio]

Mass shooting of the week, "America, A Nation of Trauma." The malignancy of mass society. Mass flooding, mass near-extinctions (e.g. gray whales, puffins, curlews), mass psychic immiseration, mass homelessness. Conver- sation with anti-tech partisan Laura Drake. Kids' bike riding declining big-time. Experience Industry's latest: Star Wars World, resistance briefs.

05-28-2019

[audio]

MOVE prisoners released after 40 years - and a Phila. caller. "When Were Human" by JZ. Endless disease outbreaks, contaminations, breakdowns - health of all species bludgeoned globally. Army worms, African swine flu in China. Ebola, leprosy, measles, etc. Mass stabbing in Tokyo. "Will Robots Ever Better Caretakers than Humans?" Laura Drake blasts tech. Tech regulation, privacy: fantasies. Major mergers. Books, not e-books, on the rise. Action reports.

05-21-2019

[audio]

No more Game of Thrones! Zoltan boosts microchip implants "so long as it doesn't harm anybody else."(!) Comcast wants to track your bathroom habits. Disney World could build a nuclear reactor. 1st organism with a fully synthetic DNA code. Gene that fixes depression NOT. Millions of birds killed by industrial vacuum olive harvests. Seas rise even faster. Local landfill fires due to lithium batteries. Action briefs, one call.

05-14-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. More on "Done in from Within." Industrial excrescence of the week. E. Africa trashed by e-waste. Air Buds a recent e-crime. Ferlinghetti's Little Boy memoir. "Depression is a Disease of Civ," by Stephen Ilardi. Resilience, new phony buzzword. No military solution to mass shootings, latest suicides upsurge: teen girls. Social medias addiction and enemy of thought. Action briefs.

05-07-2019

[audio]

Devastating UN report on extinctions. Greenhouse Distro. Age of cruelty, no empathy? Academics discover anti-civ. A report on Us, Relative: Scaling and Plural Life in a Forager World by Nurit Bird-David. "Done in From Within" by JZ. Cocaine in UK rivers. Connection now a commodity. Action news, four calls.

04-30-2019

[audio]

What is the spirit - or dispirit - of the times? Fear, anxiety, grief...dominant zeitgeist vibe? Fredy Perlman on racism and nationalism. Eco-disaster of the week, suicide watch. Getting dumber in the techno-world. Ableism discussion. Modern Madness by Ed Lord. Birds, measles. Action news. Zuckerberg: "The future is private." One call.

04-23-2019

[audio]

Due to a screw-up at the station the recording is mostly that of a U of O softball game. But at about 15 minutes in there's 20 minutes of the show

04-16-2019

[audio]

Were "modern" much earlier than thought, before symbolic culture(!) "Intentional Mass Casualty Events." New books. "A Note on Freedom" by JZ. Global energy consumption rocketing upward. City Lab touts Technopolis as 100 Resilient Cities ends. "Machine learning" writes the scripts but cursive in schools makes a comeback. "Woman at War" film, resistance briefs. (Go to channel 2 at kwvaradio website for 4/23 show.)

04-09-2019

[audio]

"Filling the Void" - Bruce Alexander on addiction as response to the void of the culture. More cities submerging. Synthetic biology on the march vs. health failures all over the world. Reality too "depressing"? Instagram, Snapchat ruining memories; Google's Smart Compose: bots take over writing/thinking. Cognitive tech lined up to read our thoughts. Barry Lopez's Horizon: no resistance, no alternative paradigm. Resistance briefs, one call.

04-02-2019

[audio]

"Regulate" global social media technology? Weather, species, industrial calamities sampler. How to better deal with racism from anti-civ perspective; general approach or grounded? White by Bret Easton Ellis. Use, role of fire on Homo species. Shootings, always. "This Friend- ship Hs Been Digitized." Depressed? More video games to the rescue. Garfield phones pollute French beaches. Resistance reports, two calls.

03-19-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Rupture by Manuel Castells: the global crisis of democracy. Mass shootings: Brazil, New Zealand, Netherlands. Answer to racism within Civ? Mass cynicism, mass corruption. Whale woes, industrial mayhem. Why domestication? 6-day Venezuelan black-out: "No authority." Two calls, resistance news.

03-12-2019

[audio]

Latest urban disasters/growth of cities. New jetliners crash, pilots helpless re: tech. Oil spills, extinction news. Rise of conspiracy 'theories.' Homo hunted rabbits 400,000 years ago. I read my "Value and its Enemies." E-sports replacing sports, anti-depressants don't work, organized intimacy(?) Social Media Is Ruining our Memories. Those Stars in the Skies by Deba Ranjan. Action shorts.

03-05-2019

[audio]

Snowed in last week - no broadcast. Crises of the seas, ever-stranger weather. Control: essence, inner logic of civilization. Ardi hominins walked like us four million years ago. 131-car pileup (perfect metaphor). Longest oil spill. Sadder lives in a pathological world that breeds despair. Debora Spar's The Virgin and the Plow: technology, paternity, patriarchy. Two calls. Raptors take out mining co. drones. New anarchist zines, action news

02-19-2019

[audio]

Valentine's Day...and self-love(?) Weave: the Social Fabric Project. Pig shootings, mass shooting of the week. Mega-polluted city of the week: Bangkok. Eco-disaster tid-bits. Online instructional videos do not impart skills. Depression impacts, resistance. Email, iPhones misery. Online and failing, anxious. Nihilism not ideological? Actions shorts from here and there.

02-12-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Strikes then & now. Chomsky on "Moral Depravity." More on ASMR. "Becoming Animal." Rentafriend.com. Despair the basis of school shootings. "See Something, Say Something." Latest fashion is post-apocalypse-wear. Surprising allergies rise. "Fauxtography." Resistance briefs, one (nihilist) call.

02-05-2019

[audio]

Breakdown of a friend. Biggest mass shooting: "no motive." ASMR craze. Bye, bye, ocean blue. Colonization genocide caused 'little ice age' c. 1600. Half of US adults have heart disease; obesity- related cancers on rise among young. UK schools turn to meditation re: anxiety, depression. Kids: online but not lovin' it. Air conditioning alone will be overheating tipping point. Media sources, resistance briefs. And so much more.

01-29-2019

[audio]

LONELINESS - There's a pill for that! Sleepless in Society; Public Health crisis. Shootings; massive Australian drought, temps. Musk madness, Tokyo man weds robot. Super report from Rewild weekend in Portland. Conspiracy 'theories' thrive in post-truth/postmodern world. Resistance briefs, one call.

01-22-2019

[audio]

Whiteaker Tales event: most of the hour's 6 calls were about issues raised there e.g. snitch culture. Mary Oliver, eco lowlights of the week. Greenland Asia's glaciers melting fast. Bighorn sheep going under, global insect collapse. Ad of the week: Aspiration credit card. BAGR (now Wild Resistance) #6; #7 will be decolonization themed.

01-15-2019

[audio]

Events reminders, enviro marker of the week. Snitch culture. "Post-Left" foibles... e.g. strikes/unions and "How fascists Approach the Post-Left Anarchist Movements" by Dimitris Plastiras. "Whopping" American weight gains. Wichi hunter-gatherers in Argentina. Desalination hoax. Problem Solving Deficit Disorder. One call, action briefs.

01-08-2019

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. French uprising resumes, deepens. Outreach discussion; anti-civ needs to break out of current anarchist bubble. Cascadialive! TV shows 1996-2005 at U of Oregon archives. Monarch butterfly almost extinct. Industrial disaster of the week, mass shooting of the week. Whiteaker Tales event Jan. 19. Action news, 3 calls.

01-01-2019

[audio]

Report from NZ Deep Green Bush School. 50th anniversary of Apollo 8 "earthrise" photo - what ruin required for that shot? Dave Eggers on Digital Human Rights(?) Arizonans' luddite fury against driver- less cars. Electrocution threat to wildlife, vowels Go Walking. Native students abused still. Resistance news, one call.

2018

12-25-2018

[audio]

Holiday weirdness (e.g 10PM Xmas eve is heart attack time), "climate grief." New face of social movements 2019? Read "Techno Madness." Contamination, extinction news. "Civilization Is Like a Jetliner." Ads of the week (odes to super- passive consumerism), failure of 'green' agriculture in Italy. Face-to-face world fading. Resistance briefs and recommendations.

12-18-2018

Due to tech failure this broadcast was not recorded. End of the year, end of the world. The concept of holiday. Discussion re: openness/communication among anti-civ folks. Homelessness, isolation. New tools + networks 32,000 years ago, 1st plague 4,900 years ago. Online religion; Boy Scouts, 4H on the wane. Autism factors. Resistance news, 2 calls.

12-11-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. French uprising going strong, Polish climate summit even more of a bad joke than usual. Cambridge word of the year: nomophobia, fear of being away from phone. Dead Sea, Sea of Galilee drying up. No amount of drugs can cure depression. Grimes' disgusting ode to the Machine. Carbon emissions spike globally. Resistance briefs, two calls.

12-04-2018

[audio]

France on verge of open revolt; "yellow vests" eruption is uprising not protest, spreading. "It is Time We Civilised the Sentinelese," by Brendon O'Neill. Suicide, ODs, nihilism: life expectancy declining for first time. Gene-spliced humans are among us. Fortnite addiction as connection, intimacy fall off. As eco-disaster moves along, violence among caged humans increases. Resistance news. One call.

11-27-2018

[audio]

Deana Dartt last week: priceless. "Natural" disasters? "Earth is in a Death Spiral," George Monbiot. Oxford Word of the Year: toxic. I read my "Art and Meaning." "Ralph Breaks the Internet," the horror of online "life." Fewer in favor of social mediall the time. Arm-A-Dine is a robot arm aid to gluttony. Resistance news, four calls.

11-20-2018

[audio]

An hour with pro-rewilding Chumash scholar and activist, Deana Dartt. Insights on decolonization, native renewal, health, being a guest on the land much more. Two calls.

11-13-2018

[audio]

Mass shootings at crisis point, Californiablaze at an unprecedented level. Surviving hunter-gatherers under siege. Basic irrelevance of the electoral sand box. "Google is helping relieve the drudgery of email - by revealing how inhuman it was in the first place. Japanese resistance to robotics. Action news, 3 calls.

11-06-2018

[audio]

Election night! Yawn. Gary Hart, luddite. Collapse of ecosystems: another very dark report. Contamination of air, soil march on. Perfectionism in complex society: a curse. Screen time makes kids dumb + fat. Bitcoin, smartphones shipments down. Isolation bad for heart, nerve cells. Telemedicine: "Take Two and Skype Me in the Morning." Ads of the week (tech propa- ganda). Anarchist Film Archive: irrelevant, inaccurate, leftist. Action news, one call.

10-30-2018

[audio]

Nihilism not an ism? Horror show of this week's news. Americans spend more than 90% of their lives indoors. 3 million plastic bottles and bags produced globally - per minute.The Ringtone Dialectic by Sumanth Gopinath. The Language of depression and anxiety rules the internet. BIG recent push by Silicon Valley parents to keep kids away from all e-outlets at all times. Action news. Electric grids not only spread wildfires but caused them in CA. UK surgery students lack all dexterity skills. Google now completes your messages.

10-23-2018

[audio]

UK mobile phone network's campaign against growing anti-tech sentiment in society. ITS unmasked further. Liminal by Natashalvarez. 700,000 year-old rhino butchery found in Philippines. Oceans, health undermined. Microplastics in your stool. Art signed Algorhythm on sale at Christie's. Resistance briefs, two calls.

10-16-2018

[audio]

Against Art and Culture, by Liam Dee. "Twilight of the Evening Lands" read by JZ. BAGR #6 underway. Insidious moves by alt-Right. Frightful weather: price of beer to double. Global insect crisis. Resistance news, two calls.

10-09-2018

[audio]

Landmark UN study: Enviro catastrophe soon. Delusions of democracy. Robotics follies, academic journal hoaxes, orca collapse. Alarming health news - as Facebook pushes into remote Africand 250+ die in pursuit of perfect selfie. Action briefs, 3 calls.

10-02-2018

[audio]

Mark Harris, addiction counselor and local activist, for the hour. Dope, racism, psychology, health, anarchists, history. Three calls.

09-25-2018

[audio]

Why so much talk of tech on Anarchy Radio? US heating, sea turtles fading after 65 million years. No end to the shootings, OD's, or worsening storms. "Amid the Cacophony of the Modern World, a Quest for Quiet." Microsoft: "Em- powering Us All," Audi: "Progress Is Never Satisfied." Alexa everywhere. Primal Anarchy the answer to the totalizing Disaster. Action news, one call.

09-18-2018

[audio]

e-sex doll brothel in Toronto closed! Super storms, gunfire (pig and otherwise). Bay Areanarchist Book Fair, BASTARD conference: almost dead? Horrific impacts of air pollution, obesity. ITS supporters outed at 325nostate. Read from superb BAGR submission "Wolf Encounters." Black and Green podcast now at primalanarchy.org. Action briefs.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand. We read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

UNKNOWN: Pape Pape.

Speaker 2: WW. WB 8811.

Speaker 3: Kwva, Eugene. So you're listening to KWVA Eugene where it's Tuesday night 7:00 o'clock time for anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John. The number is 541-346-0645. Same as it is every week, and we're going to get ourselves all seated and situated here while we listen to. Some jazz.

Speaker 4: Anarchy radio yeah. September 18th. That was a group featuring Charlie Parker, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and a bunch of other All-Stars who were just looking it up 1953. Well, we're getting close to the fall equinox. Well, yes, I think I got. That right? And the big news, well, tongue in cheek. Of course. The big news you remember, I announced the opening of the electronic sex doll brothel in Toronto. The major thing, well, it's been closed. Health reasons. They didn't get any details, but Gee, that didn't last very long. The E6 doll brothel. Well, of course the big news was the Super Typhoon, Northern Philippines, South China. These storms, as they keep pointing out to us, are getting bigger and more. Severe, not to mention Hurricane Florence in the Carolinas and the environmental disaster to follow, which is already. Taking place due to the industrial agriculture and coal ash. Deposits and every contaminant that can be upset by. By huge flood. And sent every witch away. Well, otherwise in the news back to the violence back to the shootings. And we might say that here we have the pig murder of the month so far. In Dallas, September 6th, unarmed black man shot to death by a white cop in his own apartment. Wow, that maybe wins the prize. You know we're also seeing. I know these figures are going to be even higher this year. The number of cops getting shot. For example,, last Friday in Fort Worth. A cop was shot and in New York, in Queens. Early Friday this also Friday. A cop was shot at a red light. Some guy came up on a motorcycle and killed him. Meanwhile, 2 deputy sheriffs yesterday were shot near Sacramento, one fatally. And in your mass shootings, probably the biggie of this week was,. Last Wednesday last Wednesday night in Bakersfield, CA. 6 Dead Gunman kills 5 and Self in California rampage. Bakersfield just another freak out. And Israel seems to have something of answer to school shootings. An Israeli company says it has come up with a unique, unique item to protect against the threat of school shootings. A bulletproof backpack that transforms into a bulletproof vest. Yeah, the Masadarmor company. Yeah, deploys into a. Protective vest in less than two seconds. Wow, they and versions. Can stop handgun bullets. And the bigger the better. More expensive model. Can block rifle fire. That's the age we're at, and it isn't just America, it's the mass shootings. Well, I'm going to stick in some explicitly anarchist stuff. Some of it is really. Not so great, but. I'm curious about this and I besides the people who ponder. Putting through troll calls. I would love to hear from people who know something about. What happened this weekend, specifically the Bay Areanarchist book fair that happened on Saturday in Oakland? I didn't hear a thing about it. You know things are not going so smoothly. Not a lot of wonderful stuff happening. That's and I can blame myself to be part of the problem. I haven't been down to one of those in quite a while. For various reasons, but. I looked at the workshops and I was amazed this this really another sad benchmark I suppose. The workshops, some of them sounded real interesting. There were two or three that were Marxist if not Marxist Leninist. So when the Anarchy deal gets down to. Down toward empty the few mark Zoids that still are in existence still aren't. They extinct crawl out from under their rocks and then they are the workshops at the anarchist Book Fair. Apparently nobody knows nobody's paying attention. Nobody cares what anarchist means. It's that's appalling. He's this straight up. Marxist characters, it's really it's. And then the other thing,, the next day Sunday on the 16th. The old ******* deal. The Berkeley Anarchist Study group. Has its thing which is always related to the anarchist book fair. Same weekend and this happened from 2:50. With two days notice just like the anarchist book Fair, I believe neither of them posted anything. Before 2 days prior to the event. That in itself, but wow, that's probably pretty telling. And it was. It was held at the long haul in Berkeley, near the Oakland line. Not a very big space used to be on the UC Davis or UC Berkeley campus. UC Berkeley in a big hall. To accommodate people in workshops and so on. The workshops were. One was notes toward anarchist numerology. How about astrology? That's that's right up there in terms. Of serious No nonsense stuff I would say, and the this was the wrap up thing. In the afternoon anarchism in a futureless world. See, that's the that's the party line with some of these people in the Bay Area in the East Bay. Nothing can stop this horror show. There'll be no overcoming it, though absolutely not absolutely not. That's just. That's a given. That's dogma. Futureless world anarchism in a futurist. See, there's no point in anything. There's no future. There's no nothing, it's just a nightmare goes on and on. But we can still have anarchism. How ludicrous that is, you've given up everything. I don't know what anarchist means. If you just have already announced. No future. Wow, I'm brought down by this, but I'm not too surprised in. In either case, the book fair. At a real low ebb and now. Predictably, what happens at the ******* thing? Call in come on, you want to, you can. Because I cut you. Off if you disagree with me, that, not exactly. I'm afraid of still in this vein of. You know, in terms of. Unimpressive anarchist stuff. Or negative developments and this one. I thought of not even going there, but I'm going to anyway this. Is maybe we could park this in the bombshell? Department of the bombshell file. This from the website 325. No state. This came out on Sunday two days ago. And it has to do with our good friend Abe Contreras, who is called the show, not in the past year. I don't think, but a couple of times or so, way back., not that long ago, but., he's the editor of the pro, its journal Atass and its of course is individualists, tending toward the wild. Well, he's been outed. Supposedly his real name is [censored]. He's been outed because they consider IT has to be the eco fascist outfit. That loves random murder. And has issued death threats to Scott Campbell, myself and others. And they see [censored]. And his love affair with ITS as also rape culture and femicide, among other things. And they also boy, they gave the. They really did a number and I guess one could check it out because there are links. Connect with where he is, what he does, where he works. And his wife also. As the separate post about her whose. Of Vivisectionists, who's carried out various acts of torture on animals. She's another lovely person apparently, and. Yeah, it S the this 3325 people. It's just signed L initial L. And they point out that ITS has reveled. In the deaths of. Say Heather Heyer, who was killed by Neo Nazis last year in Charlottesville. And,, this,? This statement also says that Aragorn and his little black cart. Come in for will they give them a beating for complicity with its publishing. The eco fascists of Itts. Being buddies with. Abe Contreraz or [censored]. So I haven't seen any comment about this. I mean I don't do Facebook, so I may be missing a whole lot of back and forth about this, but it strikes me. There might be various things to say about this, and,. So it's 5413460645. If you want to air something, if you want to. Opine about this. Or something else? Think a little later. I'm going to been doing this a little bit previewing black and green review #6. Which you'll be out in a couple of months. Giving you a little taste of it, I want to read. From a really marvellous piece called Wolf encounters and this was submitted by one of our editors, said Ba GR. And they want to read from. Part of it toward the end of the essay. I think it's really great stuff. Oh, and Speaking of great stuff, black and green podcast. Kevin Tucker is now at primalanarchy.org. Some real substance there he really. Delivers a lot of stuff. And I forget where he's at now. #11 or #12 now. UM, at least an hour really worth checking out. Now it's at primal Anarchy. Dot org. OK. Oh yeah, well, let's go first of all or not, first of all, but some environmental news. This a striking thing. Was reported in the New York Times on Saturday the 15th. Horrible air. Terribly unhealthy air in Ukraine and Crimea. And a significant release of industrial pollution and ecological disaster which started in August. Thousands have been evacuated. Some acidified air like acid rain, sulfur waste thing. Is the biggest part of it apparently, and they're trying to. Shut down various factories before this gets even worse. Major health risks. Well, let's see. Well, the extreme heat all over Europe records all over the map in various countries. Outside of Europe as well. And the oceans, even the oceans are breaking temperature records. Now it's the things overall are cooling we're. Were in the last half of September, but. These dramatic Heat waves. And the backdrop of drought in many places. Part of it is the disruption of the planets, winds and ocean currents. So it's a lot of things. It's and the currents are. The directional ones and the also the up and down currents. Speaking of the oceans. So I don't want to really go back into that, but. You know it's affecting. All nature things. And the more on the coastal mega cities of the planet like Mumbai. They're facing catastrophe. You remember last month the coralla in Speaking of India South? Of Mumbai on the West. Side of India. Something like 250 deaths due to flooding. And wow, I don't think I got that much into it and I'm not going to go into detail tonight either. But Florida. The toxic algae just enormous. Especially on the Gulf Gulf Coast side. And it's not only Florida's very big disaster there, it's getting worse every year. It also invading New York Lakes. And it's somewhat something of a mystery. I don't know why, I guess it's just coming on so strong faster than. Was predicted, I'm not sure. Plastic, plastic, plastic again, this from the independent. In England we've heard about the garbage gyres these big swirling galaxies of garbage, garbage, patch zones, especially in the North Pacific. That's what we hear about the most here, I guess, but that's only one of five biggies. There are also these big garbage patch zones in the Mediterraneand Southeast Asia. We haven't talked about fracking a lot in. A while, but. The impact of fracking could grow by up to 50 * 50 fold. In some of the drier regions by 2030. It doesn't, predictably, is stronger impact and very dry places. The use of water as well as the contamination by hydraulic fracturing. Is is way up. Futurities has been announcing that a couple of times in the past months. The volume of brine laden wastewater that fracked oil and gas wells generated. During the first year of production, when they're used. All increased up by up to 14140%. So that's enormous. And with global warming as temperatures rise, Science News tells us so do insects appetites for corn and rice weed, et cetera. Hot or hungry or past likely to do. 10 to 15% more damage to grains for each warmer degree. It's quite a lot per. Pretty green. The puffins are vanishing. Plummeting numbers of those good old puffins remember that as a kid, seeing the picture of a. Puffin unique looking thing. Iceland the North Atlantic. They're disappearing there. The lamprey fish, not to be confused with lamprey, eels, lamprey fish in the Pacific Northwest. Also, hitting downward in numbers. Oh, and just today, the story about hypoxia, that's the oxygen free dead zones in the oceans. Those are going strong, lots of places, including there was this piece just today. In the Oregon Public Radio. For broadcasts Pacific Northwest Ocean floor and one doesn't think of that as cool as warm water or as having dead zones like, unlike the Gulf of Mexico, which is quite different way different than. Then the Pacific off the West Coast of North America. Anyway, they're bringing up a lot of dead crabs because of hypoxia on the ocean floor. Out West of Oregon. Out of the North Pacific. Haven't mentioned recalls in a while. Yeah, some whoppers there. Let's see, this,. Friday, the 7th Ford recalls 2,000,000 pickups. More problems with safety belts. Going to cost 140 million in. On the 12th, GM recalled over 240,000 vehicles to fix brakes. Rear brakes that. Increase the risk of a. Crash, it's nice that breaks. And,, let's see on the 13th. This just,, just auto recalls, not to mention food and other recalls, but GM. Another GM deal recalls over 1,000,000 pickups and SUV's because of power steering failures. Yeah, it's a good thing we have all this funded technology that can't. Build relatively simple stuff. Cars are more complex, but you'd think that some of these. Components or aspects like brakes. How hard is that? I don't know. Yeah, waiting for those calls come on. You can do better than trolls you can actually. Contribute to the discussion of some of these things. Doesn't have to be. About this outing of the Tasso duo, but it could be a challenge there. I know some people. Probably see this quite differently than the 325 folks. Probably do. Yeah, balls in your court. OK, well I think we'll take. The music break just a little bit early. I'm going to get back to this. I want to breathe this wolf thing, among other matters.

UNKNOWN: Signa fabrica Shut back down. Badoo star explorer.

Speaker 4: We are back. Carl and I waiting for your phone calls you had a while there. To ponder it. Anyway, let's go on to some health and happiness stuff. If you pardon the irony, well, there was a piece. End of August in the New York Times called gloom in world's happiest nations. Referring to Scandinavian countries. Which have been rated as pretty jolly, relatively, but this. The gloom here has to do with youth unhappy lonely youth and guess what it's related to. Social media. You got it and today more. Slightly more recent thing. New York Times Gallup Global poll didn't know there was such a thing. Talking about dark times in this pole, contact to 154,000 people from 145 countries. Survey of people's emotional lives. Well worry stressed. Sadness at the highest ever point and let's see getting back to some. Empirical, ? Explicit physiological environmental stuff. Air pollution global air pollution shaves a year off of human life expectancy course. This varies. It's the average. Global's take on this it shaves off four months if you live in the US. Or four years in the northern city of Patna. They single out that city is. Really horrible air. Yeah, data from the global burden of disease project. And there was something something here about how. Particles of air pollution. I think for the first time. Yeah, here it is. From the Guardian on Sunday the 16th. Scientists have found the first evidence that particles of air pollution travel through pregnant women's lungs and lodged in their placentas. This from. Doctor Lisa Miyashitat Queen Mary, University of London. It's the new study. City particles in the placentas of each of their babies? Quite possible they say that the particles entered the fetuses too. Yeah, even more frightening. Whereas this from fraternity. But 10 days ago, city dwelling kids who immerse themselves in a South American jungle. And ate the high fiber, unprocessed diet of local villagers. Villagers had more diverse gut microbes than before they visited. Yes, you can probably guess that this a study led by Gloria Dominguez Bello of Rutgers University. With possible relevance to. Those with obesity type one diabetes and other disorders or who are? Worrying about the onset of such conditions. Yeah, these seven. City dwelling adults and kids. Lived in a remote Venezuelan jungle village without electricity, soap or other amenities for 16 days. Well, that didn't take long for this to. That they could register such a change. Well, we've got the African swine fever. Which broke out in China. A little confusing there. But,. This causing a. Pork shortage in China? Hmm and deadly Ebola in Congo. That's for real. That seems to just not go away, or if it does. Ebola just returns. Rising levels of carbon dioxide. This just another. Sort of side effect of CO2 in the atmosphere. It decreases the concentrations of vital vital vitamins and minerals such as proteins, iron and zinc in crops. In vegetation. Remember350.org, that was the were. Were drawing the line. So lying in the sand won't let it go past 350 while it's just past 400 parts per million. This CO2 quotient. Certainly for the first time in history. Yeah, at Harvard School of Public Health. Warrants that if this keeps going, people will become zinc deficient, protein deficient, and so forth in the hundreds of 1,000,000. CBS this like a week or so old. Reports a steep and sustained spike in sexually transmitted diseases. According to another. New analysis cases of gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia. All increased in 2017, making it the fourth straight year in which STD infections continued to rise. You know, this absence of health. And vitality all these things. You know they? I don't know how you really separating any of them out. OK, just a little bit more on this. This from the Yale School of Public Health. Air pollution again this case causes quote a huge reduction intelligence. Toxic air. As well as. Other things making us stupid. Has to do with the fact that the world is 95% breathing unsafe air. 95% of the global population. High pollution levels led to significant drops in test scores. Language math so forth. Equivalent to losing a year of the person's education. And a global rise in cancer predicted this year almost 10 million deaths. Some a slight measure of good news futurity. The website Futurity announced today that. Americans are eating less processed meat and red meat still a lot, but it's going down. Meanwhile obesity. This came out last week. Obesity tops 35% in seven states was only five states two years ago. Remember well, this something very cool after all that. Necessary, but bummer news. I'm going to read from Wolf encounters. Pretty darn sure this will appear in Bagr #6. A lot of this very intense, amazing. Personal encounters with wolves that the writer has had. He just talks about them and what it was like and. And ponders various things. Really, really great stuff. This a little bit toward the end. He's getting into the question of dogs. A very noticeable incident occurred a few years ago while I was staying in a remote village in far West China. Numerous straight dogs roamed the village, some were friendly and until mid beggars some were shy and obviously suffering trauma from some type of abuse. Others were hostile, snarling and barking. Obviously suffering. Trauma from some type of abuse. One day I went for a walk in the adjacent forest and a small dog started following me. I recognized it was one of the beggar dogs that the locals had been hissing at and shoving away earlier in the village. The dog kept his distance but nonetheless followed my every move. I called. I called him to me and he just stood still. I kept calling and he slowly moved forward, unconfident that I was to be trusted. But he seemed to be following because of his curiosity about me. A stranger who appeared different than the village folk he was familiar with. He refused to come close and let me pet him, so I kept walking and he kept following. When we returned to the village, I went to my cabin and the dog ran down the. Code later this later that same night I came out of the cabin and the dog was there. I gave him some food. He let me pet him for a while and seemed happy. The next day I had planned to climb a high mountain just outside. The village. I left the cabin early in the morning after about an hour on the trail. I turned around to find a small dog there wagging his tail at me. He had tracked me down and ended up spending the entire day with me climbing all the way to the summit of the mountain and then staying with me for the entire return. This semi feral dog and I had developed. Bond at my cabin again. I fed him. I felt so emotional about my bonding experience with this dog so bad about him staying out in the cold. I decided to let him to bring him into the cabin for the night, but after about 10 minutes he began scratching on the door wanting out. He didn't want to stay in a confined and heated room all night. He was fully adapted to being out roaming with his pack of strays. But that did not stop him from verifying the mutually beneficial social bond. He and I had created in doing his daily rounds of visitation. Excuse me with me for the remainder of my stay there. I never had time for another big hike, but I'm. Positive when I went into the mountains for another walk or hunting and gathering he would have very likely showed up again. Out of nowhere to accompany me, this scenario was perhaps. Just a few steps forward in social evolution, between hominid and canid. From that of my later experience with the Tan brown wolf. The autonomous self-reliance of a stray dog has a lot of wildness about it, but also when it interacts with random humans and office and often simultaneous essence of social bonding and symbiosis mutually beneficial in regard to both emotional experience and species grounding even without a subsistence format. Yet I will attest that the subsistence. Component makes the bonding even more extreme. Various people whose dogs accompany them for hunting will strongly agree. Our relationship with dogs seems always to have been a special one, intimate, communicative bonding and socially binding. But we never needed to make dogs our dependents. This becomes the problem. When we make our pets helplessly dependent on us sapping the wildness out of them leading to their living in a perpetual state of fear. This also what self domestication is done to hominins tamed us, enslaved us to relationships of hierarchy domination and socio ecological alienation. That for our current survival, most now dare not break. In full cognizance of the offensive sensitivities involved here, I should be honest that what we have done to our dogs is an accurate analogy to our own domestication and highlights also how our relationships with domesticated animals shape us in our possibilities. It is ironic that for many who dedicate their lives to otherwise helpless pets. The capacity to break free of domestication at all becomes greatly hindered. I've seen this often with various dog owners. Every choice in life revolves around pet sitting. The now helpless and eternally needing dog needy dog. And it seems that once enveloped in this mutually reinforcing domestication, symbiosis neither the dog nor the human has much capacity for shedding domestication. Domesticated humans will make the same choices they do for themselves as they do. For their pets. Domestication is a mutually reinforcing positive feedback loop. My encounters with wolves provide something antithetical to this. The wolf genes know the long range, functional, sustainable and resilient symbiosis wildness. The wolf wants the relationship, but not at the expense of her autonomy. So it uses that relationship to its advantage both for subsistence and sociality. Sharing the power of its beautiful night song under a starlit sky. While some wolves and humans have been caught tricked into becoming tamed, and others have even volunteered in the momentary illusion that life will be easier on the other side of the threshold, others, both wolves and some hominins get it. They see the trick and don't allow themselves to be caught. They maintain their wild autonomy, autonomy, and run away howling into the night. Laughing at the naive domesticates who make attempts to control. Them, but we walk on shaky ground ever more vulnerable to the programmers and deceivers with the spirit of the wolf in its blood. The chained and barking dog is fighting for its life. It wants out to be free and run wild in this. With time it will learn not to snarl that the others surrounding it are not its enemies. To be perpetually feared. Likewise, the chained embarking modern human also wants to be free, but most of these have no mental baseline for how to get there. No reference point other than what they observe and are fed by the economic, digital, and technological world. Wolves are reference point hunter gatherers are reference point, wild autonomy is the baseline. Every experience I have while actually attempting to live in wildness, especially my experiences in shared space and relationship with wild others make this core reality continuously and increasingly clear. I love that and the whole thing, I think. Will be in black and green review #6. Pretty sweet. All right, well, she's a lot of. Text if I don't know how. I don't know how much we'll get sinking in just a little bit of resistance type stuff. Mostly Alf I don't have. Very much of this but interesting piece at it's going down called on the side of society against civilization subtitled. From Virginia to Roja. And this contrasts very strongly with the book I was talking about a couple of weeks ago. That I got from a friend. Via friend from Turkey that is. Who is saying? What's going this? Is this has to do with the PKK essentially? Led by Ocalan who's been in prison for almost 20 years now. And the offshoots like YPJ and YPG in Rojava. These anti authoritah. In resistance groups there and I just one more reason I wish wish Paul Simon were with us because he had a lot of. He had a lot of experience. He had a lot of insights into. How these groups are functioning? Well, get back to get back to the book. That was about the PKK and its boss. Ocalan, and his supposed shift to Murray Bookchin. And he, the book argues that's just window dressing, that it's still extremely authoritarian out outfit, even though it's no longer Marxist Leninist, it's. Supposedly social ecology oriented and he tried to show in the book that. The hierarchical top down thing was still there, very much so despite the rhetoric of the. Books and type anarchy going on so. You know, this guy Oakland has written 4 volumes of something called a manifesto for a democratic civilization and in volume one he talks about the roots of civilization and how civilization has been the same for. Its 6000 years fundamentally. So I wish this another call for help here because. While there he has some very good points that it's very clear and he talks. Ocalan talks about process community. In a similar vein as. Books and his shoes. Any blueprint, organization or anything else to be imposed. Yet the book I cited says that's just. That's really funny, so I think what could explain it as I applied before is that these groups are autonomous. They don't take orders from Ocalan, and what their views are as to the authenticity of how far Ocalan himself has gone, is somewhat irrelevant. Perhaps that would explain it. So yeah, and it really has sounded to me like. There are these groups that are very radical, very feminist. Very much. Very anti thorarin. So we'll see hope to get some more insight on that. Well, let's see. Three weeks ago a raid in Sweden HJOIS of the city or the town is pronounced or spelled. Great big. Action there thousands of mink released following anti fur demo. The owner of this big fur farm has thrown in the towel he's done, he said. Too much. Resistance, real resistance and. They put them out of business. Let's see, here's some pretty cool AF types of three hunting towers destroyed in northern Wisconsin. So much of this from Bite Back magazine comes from Europe. This a USA thing. Down with speciesism Long live wild anarchy. Yeah, they wrecked these hunting towers. Some of these things are really well equipped. It isn't just a little. A little stand but and another mink farm thing. This near Venice, northeastern Italy. An office and a warehouse of this mink farm were set alight €300,000 in damage. And last year at the same place, same outfit. A van was torched and thousands of mink were freed. They really target some of these things and maybe this going to be or possibly already is another ex mink farm. 5413460645 we're getting to the coral magic hour, the last-5 or 10 minutes. And getting those vibrations free phone call. We've got to get to a little bit of the tech stuff. Yeah, more on how game developers are making it hard for players to stop. Wall Street Journal piece on that. Wall Street Journal last Friday. Quite an article about smartphones and cars being tainted by the reality of cobalt mining in Congo. Really awful conditions. It's well known really, it's quite horrible. There's a growing demand for cobalt lithium batteries, everything high tech needs lithium or needs cobalt, primarily because of the lithium batteries. Yeah, front page piece. Of all places, the Wall Street Journal. Well, maybe there's a ray of life here there’s been a lot more written about dumb phones. Are super minimalist phones. Available to somewhat escape social media. Well, actually to escape because these phones don't have that connection. Yeah, apparently there's more. More of that under way instead of wanting the smartphone that haves every conceivable capacity and every conceivable hookup. No, that's Some people certainly don't want that. That's not what they're opting for. And all of these things. This a well known theme I'm afraid, but. If you want to control for example people controlling their children's access. To social mediand all the rest of it. Google has something called Family Link. Which involves kids under 13 having their own Google accounts. But Family Link allows the parents to set screen time limits and even lock the devices down when it's time for a break. Block different apps and so forth. Yeah, if you are Google you can. You can get this. Boy, thousands of what was the name of this thing today. No, I can't find the thing today, but. Well, never mind. It's there are all kinds of apps for everything in terms of Facebook and oh, there was a story today. At verge About how. About how Facebook has been getting financial data from banks through one of their apps. Dirty pool and of course they claim altogether,, protection and privacy and so forth. But yeah, this just came out today. That they've been. Is it? I can't think of the name of the particular app, but it's supposedly as I understood, it's supposedly an app to do more or less the opposite, but they're using it as a way to get into,. People's data. From the banks. And that's just pretty blatant. That is. Learning and memory. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, this. This good. This depends on. It comes from. Owing to studies of mice so. That is crazy to because anyway, the Journal of Neuroscience last week. Came out with the study. Having to do with the brains of obese mice. They found that rogue immune cells chomp nerve cell connections that are important for learning and memory. So yeah, it's an immune cell assault. Based on obesity., that's that? That's what they are trying to. Isolate this a function of obesity. These are fat mice who. Or dumb and can't remember anything according to the September issue of Journal of Neuroscience. Yeah, with some implications. Well, of course they're putting their hopes on drugs that stop the synapse destruction. Which may work to protect the brain against the immune cells cell. Not being obese, not being on your phone every second, then sedentary at the screen. This might be a more fundamental. Recipe or prescription? Well, oh gosh, I started to think somebody was going to call, but. You know it's predictable. You get this snarky stuff. You get the. You get the. The trolls and I'm got a minute. I think we're going to just bow out slightly early, but a friend of mine found out that the Bay Areanarchist news crowd. Has been coordinating the efforts to disrupt anarchy radio with calls. Somebody logged in to their IRC server. They found out that they have a channel as sort of a chat room. Involving people that are directed to listen to the show and comment, . Comment negatively, no doubt. But the but the real point here is the. Is that people would stoop that low to. To try to troll the show. That's it's awfully weak. But I guess they don't have what it takes to just phone and. Be straight up about something. Well, I don't know we've got somebody on the line and we'll see if there's time or. A reason to get on this thing looks like no. No, OK, Carl is not disclosing the nature. Of the call anyway. Thanks for listening. And yeah, I wasn't going to even bring that other thing up, but I had a minute or two to stoop to that sad. Yeah, and nobody comments they can't. Respond apparently to anything. Maybe that's why the book fair and the ******* thing are just,. Pitiful and nobody even bothers to not. Not that they have. To call this. This radio project, but I didn't see anything anywhere about that. Well onward and upward going to have some more exciting, uplifting things. I'm sure including a guest as were talking about that probably week after next. Can be pretty exciting. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2: I see the chance. I remember some. I see.

UNKNOWN: I see the white.

Speaker 2: Baseball diamonds Nice weather down there. I see the school. And the houses where the kids. Places to park. And those factories and building. Restaurants and bars. For later in the evening. Work together. See the Parkway.

UNKNOWN: That passes.

Speaker 2: Through them all. I wouldn't. I wouldn't do where most people do. I wouldn't live. If you.

Speaker 3: This itself.

Speaker 2: I guess the air is clean. I guess those people. Have fun with that. Neighbors and friends look at that kitchen. And all of that. Then they bring it to the store. They put it in the title. I wouldn't.

Speaker 4: You hate.

Speaker 2: I wouldn't live like that. I want to live.

09-11-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Nike bets on radical message for profits. Cartoon of the week: "What I did online this summer." Hyperobjects, by Timothy Morton. More on loneliness epidemic. Can tech be reversed? Emoji shortcuts, Rio Grande almost dead. "The Unbearable Darkness of Young Adult Literature." Hospitals' insane War on Superbugs. Resistance news, two calls.

09-04-2018

[audio]

Caller-host etiquette, the Mighty international reach of Anarchy Radio. JZ reads BAGR submissions on human nature and outreach. Resistance news (mostly ALF). Anti-Pinker "Rise of Organized Brutality' by Sinisa Malesevic. Birds on Prozac, thickest Arctic sea ice melting. Google moderates 2 billion, its Smart Reply thinks, replies for us. Kids conditioned by robots.

08-28-2018

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Early symbolism but Homo not defined by it. Lure of social media fading. North America's first high tech sex doll brothel. Apocalyptic forecast for California's environment, California student suicide string. Four calls.

08-21-2018

[audio]

Shudu, world's first digital supermodel, Georgia pigs taser 87 year-old salad greens seeker. Things WERE better before modernity. JZ reads "Age of Grief," Adorno and redemption. More on bad effects of sitting, iPhone addiction possibly waning even as Pacific Crest Trail hiking experience devalued by phone use. Resistance briefs, two calls.

08-14-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. AR listeners swamp free Fifth Estate offer! Neo-Nazi rally in DC: miniscule. Fires and civilization, mass shootings spread. From the Pleistocene to the Plasticene but social media corporations slide. Anarchy in Portland OR. Accelerationism? Resistance briefs, five calls.

08-07-2018

[audio]

Arcata weekend. FIRES. Schools now feel need of mass shooting insurance. Read my "The Puzzle of Symbolic Thought." In-depth report on CHAGS conference. Action briefs, two calls.

07-31-2018

[audio]

An hour with Peter Werbe, long-time Fifth Estate editor.

07-24-2018

[audio]

Corrosive Consciousness clarified.. Severe global temps, fires; heat boosting suicide rates. News from CHAGS, Faces of wage-slavery. "People Who Do Not Need People," "The Face as Technology," anti-mortality movements. "How Tech's Richest Plan to Save Themselves from the Apocalypse." Millennials skip travel that isn't Instagrammable.

07-17-2018

[audio]

"Breath at the threshold" by Joan Kovatch. 2.1 million year-old tools, pre-domestication bread. Over-heating, drought, fires, 4 mile wide Greenland iceberg event. Time now measurable at 100 billionth of a second. Good discussion of basic questions. Action briefs, 4 calls.

07-10-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. World heat wave, ways to poison planet. "Strikingly humanlike" foot of 3.3 million year-old 3 year-old. Human No More book: anthropology in an increasingly place-less cyber world. High-tech Nagano, Japan, a ghost town. ES-100 from Tanita tells you if you smell, renders noses obsolete. Should children be polite to robot voices? Hyundai - "a new mobility is coming." Action briefs, three calls.

07-03-2018

[audio]

Pixar movies very anti-tech future as tech engulfs reality. Mass shootings go global, planetary over-heating updates e.g. Arctic Ocean melts into Atlantic. Japanese island hermit forced back into civ. Timehop gives one self, memory. Robots and consciousness, manners. But mostly calls re: last week's phone-ins, five calls.

06-26-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. She reports on ICE occupation in Portland. "I Really Don't Care. Do U?" :What statement /meaning? Suicide watch, near and far, what it is saying. Eco disaster of the week, Racist pig murder of the week. Two calls.

06-19-2018

[audio part 1] [audio part 2] More on suicide, depression, drugs. What is AR mostly trying to do? Drought vs. flooding. Venezuela. Anti-civ getting some notice at last. (Un-)health news. (Google) ad of the week. Some resistance news, discussion of The Brilliant, Anews podcast. 5(!) calls.

06-12-2018

[audio]

Two offerings on "The Case Against Philosophy." Suicide news...a culture of suicide? Fires, drought, water woes, indoor pollution. Horror movies, comic book movies. Anti- work, anti-voting. Ever more isolation. The novel Break.Up. Swedish kid drowns while crowd takes photos, blocks rescue. Driverless cars to increase congestion as Hyundai proclaims advent of "a new era of mobility." Verizon: We Didn't Wait for the Future. We Build it. Enormity of tech, of distrust of it. One call.

06-05-2018

[audio]

Tribe by Sebastian Junger, LA Book Review's "The New Primitives" by Ben Etherington. Indigenous video and panel at U of O Longhouse May 30. Weekly news of the Onslaught on the physical, social, personal worlds. Barbara Ehrenreich's Natural Causes. Domesticated fish going deaf. Eating alone, Lynq vs. lynx. Stone tools. Ads of the week, political and resistance reports. One call.

05-29-2018

[audio]

"Space: The Final Socialist Frontier?" - In These Times (David Graeber's outlet). Black Seed #6: "ambiguity" its watchword(!) The Case Against Philosophy read by JZ. Almost incredible eco news briefs, ditto latest tech developments as civilization displays extremes of ever more anti-life aspects. (Suburu) ad of the week, resistance news. [Kathan co-hosted May 8 episode]

05-15-2018

[audio]

A fun and stimulating hour with friend and vivid anarchist Rotn.

05-08-2018

[audio]

Kentucky Derby and domestication. Oppositional energy on upswing internationally. Backwoods zine. 700,000 year-old sea voyaging to Philippines. Ad of the Week: Verizon: "We're Not Waiting for the Future, We're Building It." Disease epidemics now chronic, from e-coli to ebola. Massive pollution from international shipping. Geoengineering trashed; raves for Camila Power. Action news, one call.

05-01-2018

[audio]

May announcements. Avengers(!) Varieties of violence. Japan's 'rent-a-relative' phenomenon. Water, birds disasters. Even more on loneliness. Ad of the week: Splunk (Data uber alles). Disaffection with technology? More costs of tech. Camila power, Jerome Lewis: superb radical anthropology videos. Action briefs, 3 calls.

04-24-2018

[audio]

anti-civ.net, JZ on SPELLBOUND, OPB (May 2). Critique of Graeber and Wengrow essay. Ad of the Week: Dropbox (meaningful work"!), as Big Data means further deskilling among other things. People connected to nature take 90% fewer selfies, lower anxiety. Geoengineering madness possibly nearing, more on antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Extreme weather news, birds in serious decline, Atlantic circulation slows gravely, signatures disappearing. Action briefs, two calls.

04-17-2018

[audio]

Elijah sits in. State of Global Air study: over 98% breathe unsafe air as civilization poisons the planet. The Disconnect - "Join us on Twitter"(!) Singer The Weekend: death and decay in society at Coachella. This Land of Strangers by Bob Hall: epidemic aloneness with mass migration to online "life." 5G iphones: a massive radiation upgrade. Action briefs.

04-10-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Apple's lie about its clean energy. Zero privacy, digital lives. "Generation Z Already Bored by the Internet." "Ardi Walked the Walk [like us] 4.4 Million Years Ago." 58,000 homeless in LA, imperialism of modern medicine, enormous oil spills. Journey Towards the Abyss #4, BAGR podcast #6. Action news, one call.

03-27-2018

[audio]

Trump and Jensen Ban Transgender Troops. JZ reads "The Spectacular Growth and Failure of Cities." Earth Hour confronts climate change! World's largest cruise liner and other mass society disasters. Graeber, another disaster. Pacific plastics patch twice the size of Texas. Steph Clark, another black murdered by cops. Oxford prize paper: on genetic "disenhancement" of industrial animals. Consumer Reports: How to Quit Facebook." Action briefs, two calls.

03-20-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Stay away from Facebook! Teens, elderly anxious. "In Praise of ADHD"(!) Pop songs depict very dreary zeitgeist. SF Bay Area, Easter Island sub- siding. "How to Make AI Human-Friendly." Data is all. "Let's Put Smart To Work: IBM" "It's Time to Make Human-Chimp Hybrids (humanzees)." Two calls.

03-06-2018

[audio]

GUNS! DGR at E-Law; Trans hater Jensen at Eugene Public Library. Failed academic and bad writer David Graeber fails with new effort. The usual eco-horrors of the week (e.g. extinction, pollution news). Digitally interact with the dead. UK kids increasingly unable to hold pens + pencils due to tech use. "Will 2018 Be the Year of the Neo-Luddites?" Action news.

02-27-2018

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. FRR's send-up of Anarchy Radio. "What's Up With Derrick Jensen?" Hunter-gatherer story-telling. 32* at the North Pole - 50 degrees above normal. "Tech Eyes the Ultimate Start-Up: An Entire City." Alexa everywhere, action briefs, crypto-currencies NOT de-centralized.

02-20-2018

[audio]

Cliff and JZ on latest shooting massacre. CO2 is now 407 parts per million - hello, 350.org? ASMR: pseudo-intimacy. Orangutans face extinction, 13 year-old Gulf of Mexico oil leak, Bering Sea ice disappearing. More Dead Cops. Algorithms in law, health, etc. Jeff Bezos' 10,000 year clock, Elon Musk: we must merge with the Machine. Action briefs, two calls.

02-13-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Epidemic of loneliness, epidemic of despair. Life expectancy slipping. Pinker's new, nutso Enlightenment Now. Narcissism e.g. "The Bride May Now Kiss Herself." Few anarchists seem to notice what's happening in society at large. Missile proliferation - like the rest of technology. Open season cops. Sea level rise accelerating, extinction crisis in Australia, enormous East China Sea oil spill. E-skin. What is resistance? Action news.

02-06-2018

[audio]

Black and Green Review #5. Worsening media, recycling, mass transportation blues. My BDYHAX weekend in Austin. Childless futures, mercury from melting Arctic, species extinctions in Irish waters. Action news, three calls.

01-30-2018

[audio]

Last Wed.: 50 Years of 1968 at Oregon State; next weekend: BDYHAX in Austin. Oceans strongly warming as well as rising, acidifying. Shootings point toward collapse in America. Bad coral reef, light pollution news. Mil- lennials increasingly withdrawn, stay-at-home. VR soon to include "human" touch. Devumi: fake accounts, fake users in a fake techno world. Action news.

01-23-2018

[audio]

O'odham elder and activist Ofelia Rivas, by phone on increasing border militarization and surveillance. Crazed weather, (school) shooting of the week, cities in crisis globally, end of civ looming? Geo-engineering? Robot Holocaust survivor? Stores with no-one there, nature walks - by phone. Sex dolls the same as Facebook in terms of avoiding human contact? Minister for Loneliness in Britain. Wolves' comeback in Europe, action briefs, two calls.

01-16-2018

[audio]

Rising level of militancy (e.g. Iran, Tunisia, Sudan, NYC fast-food workers, forest defenders)? JZ on the road, getting published - despite postmodern nay-sayer. Shooting (stabbing) of the week, E. Antarctica unstable, snow getting scarce, fresh- water acidifying. 8 million tons of plastics into oceans annually. Infoshop.org is back - back to 1800s? Latest ITS extinctionist pathology. Craft, by Alexander Langlands. Action news, calls from OH and FL. Ofelia Rivas next week.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: Pape Pape Pape DUP DUP DUP WW BB. Hey hey hey hey. WBA 88.1 point point point point.

Speaker 3: KWVA, Eugene you

Speaker 2: Suck, suck, suck suck.

Speaker 4: Well, you are listening to KWVA Eugene once again on a Tuesday night. It's time for anarchy radio. I'm here with John and the palatial KWV studios. Where we're reclining in our deck chairs and waiting for your call at 541-346-0645. While we all get situated here, let's do this. Philip Glass and David Bowie thing.

Speaker 2: I will be king and you. You'll be crazy. We'll drive them away.

Speaker 5: We can be here just one day. Can you?

Speaker 3: And that's a fact.

Speaker 5: Yes, we're lovers. We'll keep us together.

Speaker 1: We can be heroes.

Speaker 2: I wish

Speaker 1: Like dolphins We can beat them. Never never.

UNKNOWN: All we can be heroes. Just for one day.

Speaker 7: Yes, sorry. We had heroes last week. We had the Motörhead. Version of Heroes alrighty, Okie Dokie it's January 16th Anarchy Radio. Get a number of announcements. And so for us to begin. Well, last week Catherine was here was very joyous. It's always highlight next week we'll be having Ophelia Rivas. By phone going to do an interview with her had her once before some years ago. She's a hotel. From the reservation in southern Arizonand one of the main things. We get to talk with her about is the integrated fixed towers. A further projected step on the militarized militarizing border. And the autumn reservation is half in the US and half in Mexico. And they need a passport to travel on their own land, and they've got the Border Patrol, the Homeland Security. The whole thing is. Is really something I've been. People like Ophelia has been harassed. By the different jurisdictions, including the tribal governance. But she is something else, and she's she's just hanging in there. It's just such a pleasure to know her and. I've had the opportunity to get together with her a few times. In recent years. So we'll be calling her up a little bit past the hour and getting to that. Yeah, this about the Toronto autumn. Folks in that particular. I don't know how to even describe it, but that they're really in the crosshairs. They have been for a long time. In many ways, and this just. To an even more focused rigorous. Assault that they're trying to publicize. The development of these towers. These surveillance towers. Radar towers, if there's a way to ramp up the way to spy on people and hassle people. They're doing it or they're going to try to do it, and she's she's talking about the impact and what this all about. What it has to do with them? What it has to do with the environment so? Anyway, next week. And this something for folks in the areat Corvallis at Oregon State University, which is 40 miles north of here. North of Eugene. Next Wednesday the 24th. I was very cordially talked into being part of a panel and discussion thing. It's going to be at the library the posters are coming out today. I don't have the exact details, but it's called 50 years of 1968. And It’s mainly a discussion and this they've been having this on different campuses as part of the platypus organization I understand. And I get the feeling it's how do we revive the left? When they contacted me I said I'm anti left probably got the wrong person. But they persisted, and so we'll see what happens. So probably a little fur will fly with these mainly Marxist people, and you never know who's going to turn up anyway. At 7:00 o'clock on the 21st. At OHSU campus, at the library, and. Well, next the. Next Tuesday's show. The 23rd will have more details, but anyway it will. It'll be easy to find and I think there's. Informationline already. And Saturday, February 3rd. It's the body hex thing. This crazy transhumanist festival of some kind in Austin. I'll be there to Duke it out with them. I'm going to stoop to another that I, ever fail to stoop to some lower levels. But one thing that's been bugging me and I know I'll never get to talk to them directly about this, but. Eric Gordon has been saying how over the hill I am, how I'm sore because. Everything's left me behind, and no one wants to hear from me and. Variations on that same theme repeatedly. It's a little annoying. So yeah, I've been a little busy. It's not like I'm gloating or whining or pining in the corner and. Growing my beard long, It’s not really the case. In fact, in this past week, actually just in the half of this past week, a couple of interesting things. My friend Devaraj india has told me that palmball. Which is the biggest and the biggest Hindi language literature and political periodical there? Is publishing stuff I've. Written and. And they want to do more. And from Turkey there is a cultural scene, which is apparently the most they say. It's among the very most popular. Publications in Turkey called Tuaf dergi. They contacted me. They want to do a niche issue and I said to say, well, I'm trying to think how can I work my thinking into talking about niche and I just quickly gave it up and I said I don't consider niche all that interesting or relevant or radical quite frankly. But thank you for asking. So they go well, we want to have your stuff we want to. We want to publish it. And forget about niche and so wow that was it was pleasantly surprised so. Just trying to get the point across that no, I'm not exactly finished up and I was thinking about AK Press which refuses to carry my books. Only the very first one elements refusal. I don't know why it's the oldest one, but there's another six and they won't touch them. And a news podcast. Some of the folks that think I'm just. Out of it altogether out of the picture they have been taking to, they give their weekly review of what's been happening with the podcast and so forth. They've taken to saying nothing about anarchy radio. Come on people like this. These these outfits you can't contend with ideas. I guess you just sort of suppress them, ignore them, and then deal at these cheap shots. So anyway, I've wasted a few minutes on that. The larger picture this week, I think, is somewhat encouraging. We will see what happens. We'll see if this goes anywhere, but you look at Iran, Tunisia, Sudan. Things are boiling up a little bit and they say the New York City fast food workers. They've doubled their wages. If there's a surge of militancy there. Other Wildcats in different places, and I think I'll probably save that. Any details on that for the Action News segment. So maybe there's a little bit of upturn here in the deep winter. Part of the year. And one thing that I always save, just feel so good about is black and green review. It's been at the printers for three weeks now. Yeah, three weeks, 4 weeks and it's coming out very soon. I think we'll be getting copies by the end of this week. It'll be shipped. Within the week, I think so. Marvelous 280 pages. Lots and lots of stuff in issue. #5, we're already working on #6 and I'm really excited about that. Let's see, oh I'm going to get back to the news podcast for a second. And by the way, I've noticed it's getting briefer and briefer. Every week I don't know if that's the long term trend of several weeks now, partly because they don't talk about this show. Maybe that's part of it. Anyway, the editorial I thought was interesting. It's called. Subverting the techno dystopia in a very excellent beginning, they do a good job and briefly sketching. We are in the techno dystopia. It's just so immersive and so awful and they give. They give good words to that. It's a marvelous, brief description of that. But they go on to say that. You got a choice between the war on technology or the primitivists. Of course war on nature. That's really absurd. That after all these years, you still don't get what the what rewilding means. For example, you still have no. Notion at all. Up from anthropology that. People were not warring. On nature for millions of years. Really quite the opposite. I mean, that's just anthropology 101. You shouldn't bring up this stuff if you don't don't know anything or don't want to know. Thing publishing things like against anthropology. No, I don't want to know how people have lived. I don't care about any evidence or anything we might contemplate in terms of. How we might? What we might try, or what we might be inspired by. Yeah, so rewelding means war on nature and that's just it's really incredible. It’s Trump level of. Of misinformation. Yeah, sorry about that. Info Shop is back. This a big surprise. I almost never checked because for years there was nothing there. I mean that was going several years ago. A very active anarchist. Website, Well, it's back. It's full of stuff just in the past week. I think it was. But I have to mention the lead piece, the big story. They give it the big prominence FAQ number one that's frequently asked questions number one. What would anarchist society look like? And sadly enough, it's just this leftist 19th century deal. It's all about equality and no hierarchy and freedom and blah blah blah blah blah, and apparently they're just fine with mass production with industrialism. And hence fine with mass society. Which really is its product. They don't touch that, so there's still. Back there, worshipping the factories. I guess that they'll. Of course they'll be. There'll be a lot of. Equality and so on. Yeah, that's really sad. They come back after all this time having. Maybe not learned anything, but there are interesting things there. But aside aside from that, I think there are there. There's some real. Energy going on and they have various stories and you can sort it out, but. Yeah infoshop.org, it's just been in hibernation really for a long time. Well in Montecito that rich suburb of Santa Barbara, the death toll rises. It's just another. Traffic, sad case of when humans have no contact with the land with the earth and they keep doing the same. And saying stuff and guess what happens? You see it. Over and over. In your. Detached from that connection that communion. Then it'll. And we get to the place where things will be uninsured as the whole. Climate crisis deepens. Property they won't be able to insure it, it just we'll get to that stage and then that'll really be. Anyway, we got somebody.

Speaker 4: There yeah, yeah, we have Ken here.

Speaker 7: Ken, OK.

Speaker 3: Hey John, how's it going?

Speaker 7: OK and real good, how are you?

Speaker 3: Oh, pretty good just representing Youngstown. OH for you.

Speaker 7: OK.

Speaker 3: It's been a while since I've called.

Speaker 7: Yeah, what's going on?

Speaker 3: What I call the recommended book. I haven't listened to your show few weeks that you might have talked about it before, but it's called a new path by Arthur Haynes. Have you heard of it?

Speaker 7: I have not your new path, Arthur Haynes.

Speaker 3: Yeah he's a plant taxonomist in Maine. He the subtitle is to transcend the great for getting through, incorporating ancestral practices into contemporary living. And it's pretty, it's all everything about rewilding and there's. There's a lot of good stuff in her nutrition. You know, restoring land.

Speaker 8: Your book.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I just he just. I just got it about six weeks ago and about halfway through it definitely recommend it.

Speaker 7: OK, well it sounds inviting it's subtitle really packs a punch. It's in itself, huh?

Speaker 3: Yeah he. He's actually starting some community. I think it's called. Wilder Waters community where he's trying to have some. Families get together with common interests, and I think he had. He still has what was called the Delta Institute. I'm not sure if he still runs it or not, but it was. You know, rerouting skills and things like that.

Speaker 7: All right, and that's Haynes.

Speaker 3: Excuse me

Speaker 7: Haynes Haynes is that it.

Speaker 3: Haines, yeah It’s pretty solid. He's he's pretty solid too. I've heard him before on. Couple different podcasts, but yeah, he's It’s.

Speaker 7: OK.

Speaker 3: It's certainly worth checking out.

Speaker 7: Oh yeah, that's new to me. I'm going to take a look at that.

Speaker 3: Yeah but yeah. And I, I still think you're relevant if you're talking about the podcast, yeah, so I've been. Listening for about 3. Years now and nothing has changed here so.

Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you Ken.

Speaker 3: Just one dollar.

Speaker 7: Appreciate it.

Speaker 3: Hey, you're welcome.

Speaker 7: Take care.

Speaker 3: How are you too?

Speaker 7: Well, that's nice. A new path. Arthur Haynes. It's spelled like canes, the underwear, I think.

UNKNOWN: Hey Jay hi.

Speaker 4: Andy, yes.

Speaker 7: I had it wrong the first time. Yeah, good to know Dakotaccess pipeline. Many leaks. There have been some stories about that because they said it would never leak. You people are just weird and hot heads and want to make trouble with. Here's a piece from Counterpunch, the good old progressive counterpunch. This was Friday the 12th Jeffrey Saint Clair, who I think is the Co editor of that thing. Peace called between the null and the void. It's typical and we started out. intriguing. He writes heavy cultures are all like, but this not a happy culture. Sullen and sour America seems like a country whose nerves are shot and then it goes on to talk about after 16 straight years of war. Of course, that's the case. Well, I don't know is that. Causes people to be swollen and sour and their nerves are shot. If there's no draft, I mean. I'm afraid that doesn't register all that much. You could probably point to the everyday terrorism. The mass shootings. It is possibly more. And even that is, you can you can cordon. That off, I think it's much deeper than. Political policy, even war and not, that's nothing. So nothing for the people that are getting killed in various parts of the world. As well as American troops. Obviously in this piece almost immediately goes into Trump. It's all about Trump and so. I guess it doesn't matter what you start with and it just goes into the old liberal. Trump routine 8,000,000 tons of plastic into the world's oceans per year, says science last week, and is reported in the New York Times Plastics. The essence of modern life. And the journal this well vie for the scariest. Piece of the week I guess, but this has. To do with the east. Eastern Antarctic the eastern coast. Of Antarcticand how it's only focus really has been on the western part. The calving off of giant. Masses of ice and now. They are worried about the Sabrina coast of Eastern Antarctica. This would just be fantastically bigger than the other stuff, just. It was thought to be rather stable, but now they're thinking of the catastrophic. The dramatic rise in sea levels all over the world. If that calves off that great mess of ice. It turns out it's not so stable. Yeah, from the journal Nature. And current biology this came out late last week from. Environmental health news and Scientific American. The talking about ocean acidificationce again, but now this piece. Is really about freshwater and how it's acidifying three times faster. Then the oceand that and the ocean soaking up. The CO2 is happening faster than we thought. There's just a list of a parade of articles amping that up. Ramping up the rate as they as they measure it, but yeah. Current issue of current biology. Yeah, we know much about the seas. Absorption of the CO2 and other gases but. And what it does to shellfish etcetera the reefs. And all that and now. Another place to worry about him. Snow cover. As the world warms is from Yale Environment 360 snow cover from the Alps to the Rockies and so forth is dwindling, having a profound effect, and it's much more important than retreating glaciers. It's a bigger, more profound impact. Such other species as lynx, Wolverines, snowshoe hares, etcetera. As reported by The Wolverine Foundation and other groups, other groups who studies. Regarding is an interesting piece about more highways. To the South American thing. Remotest parts of the Peruvian Amazon. Near the border with Brazil. So-called protected natural areas. Boy, these give way sometimes pretty fast and. Be a little. Bit more on that a little later I think. Yeah, they're going to run right through the. Also porous National Park and the Madre de Dios reserve. Both inhabited by indigenous peoples in quote isolation. And this. Big highway building. That means the highway would bring their deaths. Says a shipibo man. It's like mining. And a number of other things. There was. This the shooting the week I'm afraid in the Siberian city of Perm. Yesterday 14 actually 15 injuries. The mass stabbing incident. At a school. Yeah, 15 injuries. I don't think there were any fatalities. Well, let's see. Well, let's catch up on the. On the recall news. Yes, three January 10th. 1,000,000 Toyotas, Hondas and joined the Takata. Airbag recall that's been going on for a while and now it's. Even more. Even more on offer industrial safety. Yeah, it, that's like, an oxymoron isn't industrial safety and over the weekend, Fiat Chrysler. Is recalling 160,000 minivans? A software problem, but there's often it's a software problem. What was the other one? We'll get to it I guess, and it's more specifically about techno stuff a little later in the show last week I was mentioning and this part of the technology obviously coltan. Necessary for cell phones, iPhones and cobalt. Needed required for electric cars. And the squeeze to mine these and find other rare earths and so forth and now lithium. Enters the picture. Extraction an industrial scale in northern Argentina. Lithium for batteries and this. Harmful for indigenous people and other species. And they may be trying to go to battery production, which is even more toxic. Speaking of the rare stuff that's. You got to grab it up.

Speaker 8: Hey we have Frank.

Speaker 7: On the phone OK oh Frank. Hello Frank.

Speaker 8: Hey John, how's it going?

Speaker 7: Oh good to hear from you.

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I haven't called in a while, but I just thought I'd call in today because yesterday was Martin Luther King Day and.

Speaker 7: It was.

Speaker 8: Yeah, January 15th is actually Martin Luther King's birthday. I thought that was a. Cool coincidence, but yeah, I just wanted to share a quote of his that I really liked thought it was relevant. And yeah, the quote goes like this, it's. We must rapidly begin to shift from a thing oriented societies to a person oriented society. When machines and computers profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people. The giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered. And I just thought that was really, really anarchist leaning.

Speaker 7: Oh, that's on the mark. Yeah, it's good to remember. Him and that's thank you. That's the man. That's right, right with it. Isn't it good choice?

Speaker 8: Ah, just headed down here in Florida so. I'm just seeing so much just the continued uglification of. It's the environment and the air quality. So many trees are being torn down just to. Put up sidewalks and all this crap. It's just I just wish there was some way to put it into it all but.

Speaker 7: That's it, man.

Speaker 8: But anyway.

Speaker 7: You sound like you're doing OK, though you're doing OK.

Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah. So far so good. It just still every day is a survival test, .

Speaker 7: There you go really, yeah, and you can laugh about it too. That's great.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I gotta have a sense of humor. Everything is. Every day is a comedy and every day is a tragedy. You just gotta laugh.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I heard that.

Speaker 8: All right, I'll, I'll let you get back. To you soon.

Speaker 7: Thanks Frank, be well.

Speaker 8: Yeah you too.

Speaker 7: Ah, I guess it's time for a music break. We had some good concerts.

Speaker 4: Yeah, totally, we might as well do this. Leonard Cohen.

Speaker 7: We'll break it right there.

Speaker 6: If you are the dealer, I'm out of the game. If you are thealer means I'm broken and lame. If thine is the glory then mine must be the shame. You want a darker. We kill the flame. Magnified, sanctified be thy holy name vilified, crucified in the human frame. 1,000,000 candles burning for thelp that never came, you want it darker. I'm ready, my Lord. There's a lover in the story, but the story is still the same. There's a lullaby for suffering and a paradox to blame, but it's written in the scriptures and it's not some idle. You want it darker. We kill the flame. They're lining up to prisoners and the guards to take an aim or struggle with some demons. They were middle class and team I didn't know I had permission to murder. To me. You want it darker.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 6: I'm ready, my Lord. Magnified sanctified be the holy name vilified, crucified in the human frame. Million candles burning for the love that never came you want it darker. We kill the flame. If you was a teaser out as a game, if you were thealer, I'm broken and lame. If thine is the glory. Mine must be the shame you want it darker. I'm ready, my heart.

Speaker 7: Well, we did have some uplift after that. Derek Leonard Cohen track there. Let's see, but first a little more. As usual, some commentary on some contemporary intricate stuff that's going on. And then. Under the good stuff, the action brief. This a piece that's been getting around a bit called the postmodern left, and the success of neoliberalism. By Scott J. And really, It’s a little bit different from the my targeting of post modernism. In fact, this not about North America, even it's. The target is really leftist. Governments is the reference to postmodern left, but it does have a little resonance in terms of. The postmodern aspect in general, so to speak, is talking about. How the left is putting style over substance. And how there's a few references to what. Post modernism and especially as it is in culture. I just thought I'd mention it. It's there is some. It's something it's not forgotten. In fact, winds up. On this note, the postmodern left does not believe in post modernism. The postmodern left is postmodernism. That rings true with the. Something I've seen not talking about governments in power. This a lot of this a reference to the Syriza in Greece. But as I say, I think it. It really has another applicable. Aspect to. It well and ITS they never go away. There is the new piece few days old now against the world builders. Eco extremists respond to critics. This always kills me. They this an endless response, but they always say we don't care what anyone thinks and then they go on making a meal look like a. Punctuation mark or something in his lengthy. Usual deal, yeah, this our arragon. ITS the individuals pointing tending toward the wild. Yeah, they better know it in their extremity of their pessimism. They make that clear. Nobody's more pessimistic. And we're and So what? You get what I get out of this whole thing is. That means pathology. And now if you could take this even further. I guess it's possible to imagine that, but now it ends up as extinction ISM that full blown extinction ISM. And meanwhile the black card is putting out a toss of #2 so they don't mind they think that's hip and current to. Relate to this thing. And by the way, I'm not going to go off into this. It could take forever and would be a stupid waste of time. There's a reference to the hiker. The couple in the park and the National Park in Mexico that were shot. By them they the ideas takes they took credit for that they. Shot and killed the young woman. And ther companion, or whoever he was with her at the time. Got away, he was wounded. Apparently I think that was the story, but she was shot down just for being a hiker in the woods. And they, but they say in here the mail is being tried for the murder of his girlfriend. That's the way they put it in the media. So this really could be another case of claiming credit for something they had nothing to do with, but. It’s so bizarre if even if they didn't, they glory in this thing. They made a big point of gunning these people down and. So, but maybe it's nothing like that. Maybe they're just. They get off on this pathological stuff. Wacko all right it there's a call out. This an interesting thing. Late last week conflictual wisdom. Is they would be periodical. This the second call out. They're trying to get to more responses than they did. Last year And this person who's promoting this and inviting. People to submit stuff talks about helplessness. And how hard it is to keep going. The issue of keeping strong? Helping each other to get out of bed in the morning and in a horribly overwhelming era. And apparently this not. One aim of this. Project is to steer people away from the counter revolutionary directions of passive nihilism and post modernism. And I don't really know what the politics of this thing will be, and possibly the main editor doesn't either, but. I think this person isn't is a self-proclaimed insurrectionary anarchist. And anyway, I thought that was interest that. Doesn't want what has been a flavor of the month. Sort of a thing with the nihilism and the postmodernism is. As I've seen it anyway, so if some interesting actions here over the holiday season, several active sabotage against SLLN and nickel Mining Contaminator Corporation in South New Caledonia New Caledonia is in the southwestern Pacific. And there's been quite the record, not just over the holiday season, but 90 cars belonging to this nickel outfit have been stolen, burned, or damaged. And most recently a workshop was smashed, a cafeteria, vandalized and looted, and a truck damaged. They're really actively going. Going at it trying to stop this nickel mining thing going on. Wildcats this from libcom. December 21st, 1000 workers. The Ford plant in Romania is a Wildcat strike. And there have been other ones, other ones not covered over the last have been rising. Tide of mountain strikes, including Fiat workers in Serbiand Volkswagen workers in Slovakia. And the mediand the Union. Unions have. Tried to keep that quiet, yeah? And then the humbucker humbucker for us that they persevere. That's still going on. This a. A report from the 4th of January. 20182018 has begun and RWE are smashed and this. They attacked a. A a intelligence center of a structure that was fenced off and supposedly protected as part of the. Thing to get rid of the Hambacher forest in favor of coal mining in Western Germany. OK, the area was fenced with infrared cameras and alarm system guarded and it were material containers and a generator, and as partly readable in the police report itself, the fences were removed and the generator destroyed. Also, attention was given to the containers. This area is opened up by us again and given back to the forest. They're still aggressive. Yeah, there is going to be probably considerable action in Chile as the Pope. I think Pope Francis already there. Yeah, Oh yeah, as of yesterday, three anyway, three churches have been bombed in the capital and the President of the countries appealed. For calm. I'm not too happy with the Pope. Yeah, during the for example in Santiago during the early hours of January 12th. A series of five coordinated explosives and incendiary attacks. This 3 days before the Pope was scheduled to be there. Attacks on churches is what this against against five. Different churches head of an institution stained with blood and founded on torture, looting and inquisitions and posted on the 13th. More hunting setups attacked. This was a in particular hunting. It is. Hunt in northern France didn't give too many details, but there's a. Of photo and the graffito reads Alf is watching you. I thought it was strange that it was in English, but. Anyway yesterday. Prisoners across the state of Florida launched a strike, a work strike against prison slavery. Extortionate prices and other. And we will find out what's happening. I don't. I haven't seen any reports, it just started yesterday. And today, over 200 detainees at 2 detention centers in Australiand Sydney and Melbourne have declared 100 hunger strike. In protest of various awful conditions. And they've they had already started. Yeah well this ongoing into the news ends just today. OK, let's see what else we got here. This Oh yeah, from Louisiana. This an ongoing thing. Fighting Energy Transfer partners ETTP. This the southern end of the. What would be completed as the Dakotaccess pipeline down in Louisiana? The Bayou Bridge pipeline. Yeah, they’re boy. This a very. A very widespread stand here. Environmental justice. African American communities, indigenous communities. Fishers faith leaders, and they're all united. To stop this in support of 1,000,000. People and drinking water ecosystems. Food systems for plants and animals also. Yeah, this kicked off. This looks like. It looks like a strong start. And another ongoing thing, Cascade Forest defenders more seems to be a revival of forest defense. It was a story today. Blockades and tree sets. Particular thing in the McKenzie Forest Public land sold to private interests. This if trying to defend the Unlogged forest. And especially outrageous. Aspect of it. In this case, when you're just selling off public lands. All right, that's. Always tasty to find out. There's a lot of resistance and I refer to some of it in very general terms of the time of the show. Well, let's see, yes, here's a story. Well, referring to one study, some participants chose to give themselves a painful electric shock rather than sit alone without their smartphone for just 15 minutes. Thank you. Yeah, I'm not going to go off into that, but if you get that. Thing, meanwhile, The Verge said great Pro Tech website their mono is today is tomorrow. I love that very succinct, never in the hair now. Today is tomorrow. I guess that's what you what the deal is with. With technology in general, and this an interesting piece from the Sunday New York Times. Keep our mountains free and dangerous by Francis Subzero. In this ongoing deal, I've heard I've read about this. I've heard about this. For example, the cell phone deal. Requiring people to have cell phones and then there are the real rugged types. This just part of it who? If you have a cell phone. Then you’re cheating, and you're not really getting the. You know, the danger and the real challenge of it all. And I was thinking of something Ken Nab wrote years ago back in the 70s. He said you can have. Content, but no adventure. Or you can have adventure and no content. And I think what he was talking about in terms of content people. Get or try to get content from what they do from their work, that there's some. Nope, some real content there, it's not. Adventure, but then that and he was referring, I think, explicitly to people who climb mountains and. Maybe bungee jumping or whatever it is they have adventure, but there's no content there, it's just. Well, this Francis Subzero believes that it does. It does have content. It’s an existential experience and. Where as he says, we are free from the strictures of time, workplace stress of being told what to do, where to go, how to be. We can travel as we may. How we may? Mountains are thrilling because our lives there are not shepherded by another. Our safety not curated. It's freedom. Yeah, I mean this case. You can make for that. I've never done mountain climbing, but. The appeal was, I think, pretty obvious. But maybe a little bit more back down to Earth. Very interesting cover story. New York Times Book review. 2 days ago. The Sunday Book review. A review of a book called Craft an inquiry into the Origins and true meaning of traditional crafts. And the review is called some assembly required, as that was. Cute and it's talking, in generally antIndustrial. Terms here. And how? Everything becomes a machine. Whether it's. What is CAD withdrawing now? You don't have to draw, it's the computer does it? And the whole. Mass, he says the surrender of our lives to machines represents a regression factory manufacturer robs us of special some. OK. Yeah, think of my one of my very favorite novels, news from Nora by William Morris. Also the work of Edward Carpenter way back in the. In the 1800s eighteen 1670s somewhere on in there, there were always people who wanted. That everybody could have. The skill and the creativity of making things handicrafts. You know hands, not machines. And anyway, this a nice long piece that. That brings us up. Today it's as he says, today it's far easier and cheaper to find an ugly plastic container that will be filthy in the air cracked. A year after that, and in turn in a landfill year after that, presumably for eternity. The same species that made that first basket eventually invented the machine that cranks out the plastic 1 today. That is progress, and it has brought our fragile world nearly to the brink. Well, that process of course is worth. Looking at closely why and how that happens. Well, yeah. Here's if something,, once again, from the verge. Yeah, they're promoting a wireless MIDI ring MID I do. You know what that means? In capital letters MIDI.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's musical instrument digital interface.

Speaker 7: Ah well, it's a good thing to keep you around here, Carl. You always know. OK, this a wireless. Any ring I had no idea gives you musical effects with hand gestures, so I thought of air guitar. You don't really have to learn to play the guitar and but I don't know. Maybe it's even more lame than that. I don't know. Speaking of crafts, right?

UNKNOWN: want one.

Speaker 7: How do I shut off your microphone? Oh gosh, and Jason sends a story. From the Harvard Business Review this week. It's called it's one of these pieces. You see them fairly often. How this called automation will change work purpose and meaning. Meaning of life really. And this looking ahead to when people won't have to work, because technology will. Take care of that and remember in the 50s when they used to say that and it hasn't quite happened. People will be free to do whatever they want and. But when our machines release us from ever more tasks, what will we turn our attentions to? This will be the defining question of the coming century. Well, I was thinking of Hanna rent in the. 60s, she wrote. It was pitched the. Named, the starting point was that people were about to be freed from labor. Yeah, again, you hear this. Which never happens, but. What is the meaning of the work that you have? I mean, these things are tied. Together, I think these. Is there is there content satisfaction or are you just tending machine or the machine is tending you? Know that's. That's what this all about. In the. Weekend Wall Street Journal. The most recent weekend here front page piece parents dilemma when to give the children smartphones and it's quite a long piece and I was surprised at how much opposition there was. The variety of people I spoke to. It was a lot of stuff, some people. One mother said it's like cocaine. When should we start to get on cocaine? Because we know it's addictive and. Yeah, it seems like a lot of opposition. Registering there. And we found out this week. This also in the weekend. Once we jump, flu vaccines seem to be less and less effective, and this the hardest hit season. Since 2009. Well, there's no cure for the common cold. I don't know why we should expect technology to. Handle the flu. Although I get one every year. You know, just. And his from Germany, a new main naval vessel. Which doesn't work. It's a big old thing and software. Once again, software is a $3 billion fiasco, which will take years to fix. I have no idea why it would take years to fix, but. Yeah, and that large Iranian oil tanker. Since about 10 days ago now it finally sunk on Sunday. It sunk in the China Seand they talked about the AIS system. Automated ID system is what it is. Another techno failure? Or it's conceivable that they turned it off for some reason and then it rammed into that jade cargo ship? Oh, and one more. This also from the weekend Wall Street Journal. A good piece by. Jerry Z Muller called a cure. For our fixation metrics all about technological culture in the sense of the more or less closing line. He says not everything can be improved by measurements and not everything that can be measured can be improved. And once again, we're supposed to swallow all the. Stuff but. May not be so. Easy and. May not be happening, in fact. Well, I guess it'll just be calling me next week. But yeah, a reminder. We will have on the phone. A very special case, Ofelia Rivas. It'll be an honor to speak with her and get the latest on what's happening on the border in southern Arizona. She's an elder and an amazing person. OK, yeah, please tune in for that and those of you in the area. You might want to hit this thing a week from tomorrow at Oregon State, the. 50 years of 1968 could be interesting.

Speaker 5: Let the sun beat down for my body's stars. I'm a traveler. Sit with elders of the generation. World self saying. Top of days for which they sit away. All will be revealed. Song from tons of living grace. Sounds stressed.

01-09-2018

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Bizarro weather (113 in Sydney, snow in Sahara). Shooting of the week, biggest global oil tanker disaster since 1991, tech take-over of health industry (ads of the week). Indigenous as key to un- derstanding where you live. Domestication of kids, high fatality rates of US kids. Decline of anarchism in UK. Myopia epidemic in tech-heavy countries. Can't build a forest. Action news, one call.

01-02-2018

[audio]

Iran erupts, eastern North America in deep freeze. Joey from Deep Green Bush School in New Zealand reports. Late 2017 rampant violence: mass shootings, pig violence. Latest urban horrors, reefs dying, air worsening.The "Brilliant" episodes 59- 63 on technology critique: Huh? Action news, one call.

2017

12-26-2017

[audio]

2017 music: "Glummest." Urban reality ("The Mega-City, Unleashed'"), plastics in deepest oceans. Instagram a "facade," toys spy on you. "The Postmodern Now" by JZ. Junk food globalized, US life expectancy falls. Fred Moten: Black culture's mission is "to un-civilize, to de-civilize this country." Action news.

12-19-2017

[audio]

Elijah sits in. Somnox, the world's first sleep robot. California still burning, AMRAK and other mass transport crashing. Swiss prepare for end of civili- zation. World's largest airport loses power. World's largest cruise ship: "Inde- pendence of the Seas" (geddit?) Artists on VR. E-waste piling up, 1/3 of all food grown is wasted. Progress. Action news, one call.

12-12-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Fires and homelessness. Bizarre urbanism, pig violence under-reported, starving polar bears. Wind power waning due to warming. iNaturalist as forests die. Toll of loneliness. This the Age of Horror. Emptiness of popular terms. Action news.

11-28-2017

[audio]

[first 5-10 minutes did not stream, but full hour recorded] Insidious NazIn- filtration (a heads-up). The week's oil spills, epidemics, pollution news. Stress levels, student outbursts, girls' self-harm. Going fast, social media bad for health. Nintendo "reunites you with nature." New Hampshire dr. rejects "electronic medi- cine," loses license. Olympia blockade/occupation + mucho other action briefs, one call.

11-21-2017

[audio]

Anti-civ, anti-fracking blockade in Olympia WA. 21,000 gallon Keystone Pipeline spill in South Dakota. Urban Scout and Kevin Tucker by phone: rewilding, our ancestral being. Anti-digital currents. Oldsters in UK lament machine check-outs when shopping: one less area of human contact. Climate change drove ISIS recruitment in Iraq. Coastal kelp forests disappearing globally, Pacific Islands to lose 80% of marine species. Bird flu spreads in Asian cities.

11-14-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. The decomposition of just about everything. Shootings ever more deadly. High blood pressure, Zany Tech Tricks, primitivist feminism. NSA hacked. Family Romance in Japan sells fake friends and family. Digital meds (has sensors to report on patient). Dis- illusion with tech? Action briefs, one call.

11-07-2017

[audio]

Latest shooting massacre(s). "Lucky." Paucity of actual discourse in society. Homelessness crises, 8 million tons of plastics dumped in seas annually, climate refugees on tap big-time. "Bushman Banter," tech/media firms mer- ging, enormous recalls. Alt-Right failing, virtual treadmills: no movement necessary. Action news, two calls.

10-31-2017

[audio]

JZ reads "The Prison of Symbols." Record CO2 surge in 2016, Gulf of Mexico awash in oil. "Climate change is much, much worse than we thought." Anarchists fiddle while Rome burns. Human caring in pre-history. New AI religion: Way of the Future. "Leave Someone Behind? Your Car May Soon Warn You." Saudi Arabia grants citizenship to Sophia the Humanoid. Taro card fad. Action news, two calls.

10-24-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Rewilding Conference in Portland. "Domestikator" sculpture scandal in Paris: domestication nailed. Insect die-off in Germany called "ecological Armageddon." Power lines sped northern California fires; southern California heat wave. Global pollution mounts, adult-onset ADHD. Hello antifa, goodbye post-Left. Action briefs.

10-17-2017

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Fires uncover pollution in every case. Language 1.8 million years ago?? CNN: millennials unbelievably unskilled. Severe anxiety #1 problem for adolescents. Global obesity, starving penguins. Who volunteers any more? No way to spot mass killers-to-be. Quantum computing: a new gold rush. Action news

10-10-2017

[audio]

Neither the Las Vegas massacre or the dope OD epidemic (leading cause of death for Americans under 50) bring out questioning of this stage of social existence. Blade Runner 2049. Eve of "antibiotic apocalypse" re: global resistance to the drugs. Plague rages in Madagascar. Upcoming Rewilding Conference in Portland. Need for standardized emojis. Action news, one call.

10-03-2017

[audio]

Puerto Rico, Las Vegas: mounting crises in both spheres of life. Does anarchism offer anything? Blade Runner 2049, etc: apocalyptic zeitgeist. Ad of the Week: IBM "Can Offer Customers What They Want Before They Want It." Homelessness, plas- tics, extinctions, emotional dis-eases on the rise. Reality is stark, solutions are ob- vious but disallowed. Wolves near Rome, Eagles rip Drones from the skies. One call, action briefs.

09-26-2017

[audio]

(Last week's show pre-empted by unforeseen sports broadcast.) Kathan co-hosts. Puerto Rico devastation has silver lining: opens door to a more industrialized agriculture(!) Opioid scourge now lower- ing US life expectancy level. Lack of sleep, sitting kills. Oil spill of the week, mass shooting of the week. Deaths of desperation, death by distraction. Peak sand, chatbots for the dying. Chicago Tribune: "The New iPhone Proves the Unabomber Was Right." Action briefs, 2 calls.

Speaker 1: Check it, check it, check it, check, check it out. So I'm the past. The news plug one, y'all.

Speaker 2: I'm sure the 4:11.

Speaker 1: Dave, look on the chair for the LNS poster, trugoy The house and we'd be the one with the all the snickering and all the victor in because we are in the crew, but they're a soul view on fat tracks y'all up is going on Fridays 8 to 11 with who Shorty who else? On KWV a 88.1.

UNKNOWN: Word, word, word. When Jay Dub and the money. Jane Oregon so.

Speaker 1: Eugene, 1212.

Speaker 4: You're listening to kwva, Eugene. It's time for. Energy Radio it's Tuesday. We're back back. Back in the hot seat. Well, if you were, if you were trying to listen last week, you may have noticed that the show wasn't on. So I apologize about that as some last minute scheduling issues that came up and. There was some confusion going on. And anyway, it turned out that if. Were going to. Do the show. It only would have been over the Internet. It would have. Been over the. Air and were just like it was late. Anyway were like 5 minutes late starting. Could trying to clear it up so. Anyway, so we didn't do the show last week, sorry about that. But we're here this week and we're going to start with some music like we always do. This some stuff from Jerry Gibbs playing the music of Miles Davis.

Speaker 5: Hello, it's energy video time. It's the 26th of September. Catherine is here. Thank you for coming down Catherine. She's Co hosting.

Speaker 2: Hey, I'm happy to be down here. I missed my usual time and then last week I'm happy to say I didn't come down so it's good to be here.

Speaker 5: A bit of a snafu as Carl was explaining and we would have notified you all if we couldn't do any part of the show we would have said that the week before but. Not everybody was notified about what's going on. Well, Puerto Rico is certainly big. Big story from the giant hurricane that hit almost a week ago, somewhat of a revealing article in yesterday's New York Times that the September 25th. Photos of the of the landscape flattened. And well, what? You see what they showed was photos of industrial farming, the monocrops, the industrial, poultry, dairy and so forth. And some spokesperson, some officials, somebody said. Thisn't all. Bad because it's going to clear the decks for more modernization, which means more industrialization. A chance to wipe out these inefficient traditional farmers and they're little decentralized things. What a great idea. As if industrialization isn't causing global overheating, which causes the more and more dangerous hurricanes. Yeah, really wise really, yeah? What lesson do you draw from that? You know, just exactly the opposite. The thing that we should learn from.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's distressing the whole lot. We've had a whole series here of natural so-called natural disaster is complicated. By such things as the agro farms or the Puerto Rico also has a lot of pharmaceutical production, that and I don't know if that's currently the case, but that was a lot I heard on the way down the mayor of San Juan in tears. Talking about the people without with absolutely no electricity, no water you. You know, Puerto Rico is an island, and any because of those agro businesses and such people's ability to survive after a crisis seriously compromised, because a place like that is so dependent on imports. Very little stuff locally. It reminds me I listened to your show 2 weeks ago and you made the excellent point about when you look at these. Natural disasters what you see happen is you see mutual aid and you see solidarity and people working together to get by. And there's a lovely article I don't know. I guess it was Sunday's New York Times. It was the Mexico, Mexico, cities people power and that. Pretty much that was the whole basis of this article. My you and grio is something that was the handful of neighbors approached the wreckage and they immediately started digging people out and that really a lot of what the reclamation and the lives that are being saved in and in Mexico are. Self organization is not these. You know that you get the counter story of theroic first responders, which hey, I have great respect for such people. That's great, but very little attention to the actually. What makes the difference? And it's the people on the ground. And what happens immediately? And what happens in the days after? So I think, yeah, I think that.

Speaker 5: That's to get the money, yes. Spontaneously organizing self organizing and getting out there and. Dealing with it right? Away It’s always. It seems to like you said it always happens.

Speaker 2: And you look at that, the different, the different scenarios that happen in these in these disastrous situations, Florida the big talk about all the poor old people wear your house down there and just abandoned the lack of intact social groups and intact. Family so your old mother, your old father down there, sweltering away unchanged on some bed. In some metropolis. Certainly gives one pause for thought as to what what, what? What does mutual aid look like? What do ? How how does one survive in these situations? You mentioned on the last show about the rewilding something going to happen in Portland. I want to hear more about that all right.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we might get a call either tonight or next week. The first North American rewilding conference up in Portland, OR October 20th to the 22nd. So you can go to rewelding.com you found that right to.

Speaker 2: I saw last time you said it was rewelding.org so now I'm not sure if its.org or.com butthereisa.com site that I looked up. I'm just not. I couldn't really locate OK.

Speaker 5: OK. I think it's that I think it's the latter. Yeah, as we get closer to. And we'll fill you in a little bit more.

Speaker 2: Like every of the every alphabetic letter carries such weight. Nowadays they're so abbreviated you can't get the three wrong, or you can't know where. So, but I do want to tie into that another article, essentials for the apocalypse that really goes along this whole idea. Of cataclysmic or disastrous collapse versus the real rewilding container and approaching nowadays that softens the blows of what, when, when you're off the grid, was it planned or unplanned? And how does one deal? But it was an interesting, approach essentials for the apocalypse. Just rate raising like things that people should should be aware of. What do you do? Water shelter. What are the basics ? Because we are so highly, especially in the cities, so dependent on civilization and if nothing this summer should have should. That should make people think a little bit about that. This stuff is not you. Unassailable, it's not always there. It's you. Know your cell phone that puts you connected and all. Well, when the towers go down, you're not connected what . You be the old. I'll be the old lady laying in the nursing home in Florida or something. Or you can position yourself. Differently now to have an actual life in the in the present.

Speaker 5: More and more vulnerability. As the thing goes on. Well, another vulnerability was highlighted the last week. I would have gotten into this last week. It was certainly still going on last week in Saint Louis. Over the case of Anthony Lamar Smith. Who was murdered by a pig down there who was announced he was going to kill him, shot him five times, and then planted a gun in his car and then the judge let him off. I mean this.

Speaker 2: And that's the total total way it always is. You know to pretend that there's any idea that there's going to be justice found in the courts. Just just like it's never happened. There's never, I believe it's accurate to say there's never been a policeman. And convicted in the last. You know what is its last three years? Five years of hyperacute increased in reported. Shootings of unarmed black kids and not a single one. Not a single convicted, no convictions at all.

Speaker 5: This the background for the backdrop for the NFL players protest, which of course is spurred on by the further racist comments of the pig Trump. Yeah, this the background of it and people were shocked. That somebody does some quiet, dignified little protest. It's unreal.

Speaker 2: Well, and then you gotta put in about the cops chanting whose streets our street. And announcing that they are in control of the city. You know, I've been watching that Vietnam special they've had on and you see Walter Cronkite in Chicago saying it's a police state.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Well, we got something on.

Speaker 4: The line yes we do. This Jared Diamond.

Speaker 5: Jared Diamond as I live and breathe. Hi there.

Speaker 3: Hi, I'm calling and I really like your show. My name is Jared Diamond. How are you?

Speaker 5: I'm good you teach at UC.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, I.

Speaker 4: Oh oh, you got your radio on dude? Yeah, turn turn that radio down in the background.

Speaker 3: Yes, I'm just calling on behalf of the microburst that happened in Santa Barbara, CAnd on other weather terrorism that's happening all around the world and basically It’s seeding the.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it just confuses things.

Speaker 3: Clouds that they're doing.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I hear you, Sean.

Speaker 1: You hear me.

Speaker 5: Sorry to sorry to out you there man.

Speaker 6: I can't get over you guys to save your life. How you doing John Zerzanarchy Radio 88.1 how are you guys doing?

Speaker 5: All right, yeah, I've heard about these micro birds. out of nowhere, right? Is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 3: Yeah, we just had one down here in Santa Barbarabout it's been about.

Speaker 7: Three weeks ago.

Speaker 3: And basically they're blaming it on feeding the clouds, and they've create some type of climate on the ground climate and. It creates this type. Of thing that links to the seating of the clouds and it it's a. Some type of thing that they're doing, and Bill Gates is behind this. Supposedly he. Has patents for weather manipulation.

Speaker 5: No doubt. OK Hey, thanks for calling man. Be well down there.

Speaker 6: All right, cheers.

Speaker 5: Jared Diamond indeed.

Speaker 2: Yeah, really.

Speaker 5: We know who that is.

Speaker 2: So well, no, I don't know who is Sean?

Speaker 5: He was well. I don't. Maybe he doesn't want us to reveal the whole profile here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: The teams.

Speaker 2: OK, all right.

Speaker 5: And the shooting of the week. Not funny whatsoever. The church shooter on Sunday in Nashville and they still don't quite know what that's all about eight people shot, including the shooter, one dead. How how about the oil spill of the week in Greece, Piraeus the port of Athens, 2500 tons plus. Sinking of a tanker and that's what caused that to a little bit earlier in the month. Yeah, there's just an average week I guess.

Speaker 2: Just an average wage.

Speaker 5: An average crazy week. Yeah, the I'd love this. You know I mentioned this. I tripped on this the. The sand we have peak oil. We have peak sand now and my first reaction was peak sand you kidding me? You ever heard of the Sahara desert? Well, it turns out every little further on that you can't use desert sand. You know, for all the construction of the development all over the world, it's too smooth. You can't make concrete.

Speaker 4: You got to be like.

Speaker 5: Out of it, right?

Speaker 4: Jagged right? Oh yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: So, but isn't one of the big. Uses for fracking.

Speaker 5: That's one of the uses, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: That I think that's one of the things really depleting it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's not only well, for example, one other little part of that, China's largest freshwater lake. Poyang Lake is drying up because they're dredging all the sand out of it. So as the seas rise, I mean it's not only riverbeds and lakes, but It’s, beaches. Which it doesn't help too much. There's a warming rising seas, yeah, peaks, and that's for real. amazing. The little boy so.

Speaker 2: So, so you're going going so fast John. I can't keep up with you. Let's say you talked about the shootings. I wanted to put those under the title I had here. Desks of desperation and I think, yeah, a lot of articles on the opioid epidemic. And I think it, I think that terminology maybe even came from the government when they were talking about the opioid epidemic in the category. They put it down opioid. OD's suicides alcoholic liver disease, cirrhosis, and I thought it's good to throw in mass shootings. The whole homicide suicide joint thing, but they these are all that's a good title. Deaths of desperation and they're the predominant way people are dying.

Speaker 5: Yeah, something about that and they've just disclosed that the dope scourge, the opioid epidemic is. Reaching the well, it's reached the place where it's pushing down life expectancy. In the US. It's that it's that many people. Impacting it.

Speaker 2: Surpassed motor vehicle accidents. These things that are. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 5: Well and we have, once again the whole. Technological society things becomes more and more so with all of its promises and so forth. And yet. Well, for example, for the second year in a row, which is 2016, we're talking about record high for Americans with chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis. And you probably noticed this hip A was there's an epidemic in San Diego County which is now in Los Angeles County, that affecting mostly but not entirely homeless people. You know, and the vaunted cities which are making which are becoming more smart due to all the computerization of everything. Malnutrition is now an increasingly urban problem, so that ain't working out too well either. Speaking of crazy health stuff. And butting up against the claims. And oh, everything is being handled. And it's just we're sailing along. Well, you mentioned a little while ago. The thing about loneliness and isolation? That's that's becoming more. In terms of health in terms of impact of health, more people are lonely and depressed. There was a piece in the. BBC News late last week about that. Trying to get a handle on that loneliness. Chronic loneliness, not just among the old but. It's there, certainly among the elderly. The last taboo they called it. Thank you Richard for that.

Speaker 2: There's got to be a correlation with that lack of connection to peoples addiction to the technologies, because that's the whole, the whole idea. Be connected, be part of the. At work, people come pull, have to have their phone with them all the time. Check your check, check, check some. But somebody might have called.

Speaker 5: Well, and there's a direct connection. There was a piece in the Independent last. Said that, a lack of sleep is killing us. According to scientists in the UK. And they're talking about it specifically in terms of sleep deprivation. How many people have a problem sleeping? That's that's a visceral. That's a baseline thing, right? I mean if you if society have all these people that can't sleep that has severe health ramifications, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, Alzheimer's. Obesity and once again connected to the sedentism of techno life. You know that yeah, there's this. It's obvious the connection. It's obvious what causes these things? What makes it worse?

Speaker 2: Well, they. I think I saw study yesterday where they showed direct connection between how, how many hours of sleep at night, how many hours of sleep to lifespand how long you're going to live. And I think that another part of that is just like the whole cultural domination and oppression, the standardization. So sleep is basically an industry, and the way the way we sleep is the standardized, the way it's measured, 8 hours a night or whatever, and I think. In other societies other cultures, it's been like. People are aware of having second sleep sleeping in, like pack of dogs sleeping together. I mean there's a lot it's like diet, like everything, the effects of civilization are just. On any topic where something that's natural has become unnatural and defined and measured in a certain way and then become people have to take pills to sleep or whatever because they can't quite get with the idea. And society doesn't support like. To two episodes of sleep at night and socialize. In the middle or whatever but.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the way.

Speaker 2: It's like all got to be one way. Get your mattress.

Speaker 5: We used to do it differently, and of course the corporate quotient in there was. Peace and Sundays. New York Times. About how big business got Brazil hooked on junk food and then just Brazil. How the direct impact from the push from corporations like Nestle. Has delivered Western style processed food and sugary drinks to the most isolated pockets of Latin America, Africand Asia. The global thing and. Again, all these things are tied together. If you. If you're sleep deprived, for example, you want caffeine and sugar. You know you're you eat junk food, it's.

Speaker 2: Right, you got to be up for the day. You know you got to go to work or whatever, yeah?

Speaker 5: Yeah, oh man, well we sure have got some. Well, maybe I don't know if we could go on with thealth part of it, but alcohol abuse among older Americans is rising, rising fast according the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. And it has a stronger impact on older people. They can't handle their whiskey like they used to. No, it's a sad thing, It’s development it's. And once again one more. I just got one more health thing here. The thing about sitting sitting kills you. It shortens your life. You know there was a piece in the New York Times again. The Times Columbia University study and the story was called Don't just sit there and . Telling people standing up regularly may reduce. The risk of death due to sitting demolition. Yeah, lengthy sitting and among middle-aged and older even more. Probably than young people of course. So why is there more of that? You know? Well, we know why.

Speaker 2: Certainly some of our machines might have a bit to do with it.

Speaker 5: Here's a piece from fair warning. Leaf blower is still amid toxic contaminants such as carcinogenic benzene as well as surprisingly large amounts of other smog forming chemical. How about the rake as simple? Tool it's not loud enough exactly.

Speaker 4: It's not loud enough.

UNKNOWN: Not loud enough.

Speaker 5: It's not loud enough.

Speaker 4: Too slow, yeah. Your boss doesn't know you that you’re not working.

Speaker 5: Well, there are people that work that are forced to abuse those things.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

Speaker 5: As part of, breaking doing more work and get out there and. With your machines, I mean that's. That's a factor too, no doubt.

Speaker 2: You do it in half the time with a leaf blower.

Speaker 5: More money for the. For the landscaping business. Well, the whooping crane going under Washington Post reports that a Research Center that produced hundreds of whooper chicks for reintroduction into nature will now focus on other projects. Have given it up. It needs swooping grains, .

Speaker 2: That was that was sad. Like they really went to incredible efforts. There was, I believe there was a gentleman outfitted with wings to fly around to get the baby whooping cranes to follow him. At one point, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah they were.

Speaker 5: It's amazing.

Speaker 2: They were working hard to see if they couldn't. Use the existing technologies solve the problem, but Oh well. Who needs whooping cranes?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know what else they're doing, but. Probably something more worthwhile. Right drones?

Speaker 2: Who needs whooping cranes when you have drones?

Speaker 5: Drones, let's take a break and lots of stuff to. To handle, maybe maybe the real Jared Diamond will call. Us 5413460645. Yeah, we got some tasty stuff, some techno stuff for sure. Some really crazy techno stuff and some good stuff.

Speaker 2: What music?

Speaker 5: Hello, we're back. We got some Action News here. You know the whole DACA thing faded a little bit from the news, but I saw some footage. This a sign I really like. There are no illegals on stolen land. It's a little reminder about that. You know what I mean? Terms of quote, illegals. Well, a continued blowback for against those like little black card to Californianarchist publishers who were in bed with the psychopathic murderers of ITS course to object to random homicide, is to be a moralist man that's really abject and brain dead that really takes the cake. Yeah, that yeah, you're a moralist. That's the worst thing to be too, ? Well, Jejak has a new. Lenin 2017 and he edited the whole several volume. Stalin works. Speaking of brain dead anyway, 100 the promo reads 100 years after the Russian Revolution. Jejak shows why Lenin's thought is still important today. Good deal, yeah way to be cool. Alright, ours, there's just to get a few things. Some action brings here. Arson attack against the rodeo ring and Valpariso Chile in September 17th. That's some nice photos. And during that radio or that Rodeo Stadium. And let's see going back aways alfers in France, openly liberate turkeys and a pig. Very cool last. And they they did this right in the open 58 took part. And yeah, they're not even messed up. They just do it during the day, so they're going strong and. September 10th several hunting lodges burned down and several hunting towers destroyed in northern Sweden. September 11th. Barricades outside the University of Chile. They're always starting fires and. Barricading and stuff. This their anniversary of 911, the 44th year of the coup against the ending. On the September 13th, this referring to a July actually anyway, but it's just announced on the 13th 2 electric cars torched in. And that was signed by. This why I really brought it up by BMW, which stands for Black masked winners. The anarchist unit is down insurrection or Audi, and the suite and Hamilton sabotage. September 12th. The Andridge Big Old oil pipeline, folks. They've got their line 10 expansion. Effort going on started, we started sabotaging and drilling various sized holes in the pipeline segments. While spilling corrosives inside others September 13th in Rome, hundreds of manufacturers residents shut down a meeting between fascists. And the local council. Riot took place. Yeah they cancelled the meeting because of the non fascists who showed up in strength. Resistance announced. On the 18th Monday the 18th against Enbridge's Line 3 pipeline extension. Machua water protectors. Native folks there have delayed construction work. Let's see on the 21st, in Grenoble, France, this Thursday at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, on the second day of the burned car trial that refers to. Anarchist trial. Burned a cop. Barracks and garage. Which intervention burned 6 vans and two trucks? Big fire. Action in support of in solidarity people are going. On trial at the moment. And it is there in France and. On the 22nd last Friday in Turkey. A car was torched in Hamburg. Car belonging to the DITIB, the Turkish Islamic Union for Religious Affairs, which is an arm of the Turkish government and its Secret Service. And last Friday, the big books burning that theater in Berlin was occupied by radicals who plan on giving free performances. Let's see that there's more about Enbridge. But yeah, that's about it for now. And the this an important thing about the butche political prisoners. Hunger strike has been going on. For well over 100 days is still. Strong and. Good support for that. That's there, really. Courageous folks down there. Thank you.

Speaker 2: All right, well, I'll take the next one you have coming up the Chicago Tribune article iPhone 10 proves proves the Unabomber was right. That was a column in the Chicago Tribune on September 13th. Pretty good article by Steve Chapman. Basically acknowledging that the technology there's no going backwards once you go down that road, you're stuck on that Rd. I said the problem is hardly a new one he raises. He cites this book I haven't seen yet. Sapiens A brief history of humankind. You've all. Noah Harari argues that the agricultural revolution that took place 10,000 years ago was history's biggest fraud. So yeah, that was shocking article to find in Chicago Tribune of all places.

Speaker 5: Yeah, new iPhone proves the Unabomber was right and it goes along with keep going back to this. It's almost in disbelief. The peace in The New Yorker. For September 18th, how civilization started? Was it even a good idea which quotes Jim Scott and others? Yeah, it's very anti slavery, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah very much so yeah. Yeah no. I thought it was. I mean basically it's the same thing where you seeing more and more in popular mediand stuff. This whole recognition that hey. Maybe maybe things aren't turning out as we as we so desired.

Speaker 5: Yeah, more and more transparently so it's just there, and now I don't know if this going to keep on going, but that's a heck of a shift. Pretty nice to see what's in. These mainstream. Scenes the nice Liberal New Yorker for. As I said before, for nice rich liberals.

Speaker 2: Well, especially with the papers burning on just electoral politics, the whole everything.

Speaker 5: That they operate side.

Speaker 2: Just Dance and people acutely depressed and hooked on following the. Absurdities beyond.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, that's not even the right word for it.

Speaker 5: The fixation with every asinine thing by the hour that Trump does.

Speaker 2: Every I mean just that it's so. Really, I get a bit incredulous at how effective. The use of tweets and the whole manipulation of people of people, general ideas or thinking. It's just mind boggling how. How it how? How effective it seems to be and also just the whole. You know the lack of memory I mentioned before the channel, the public television doing a Vietnam, Ken Burns Vietnam special and. You know, watching it, It’s all so familiar. It's all compressed into a television show, but it's like the carnage and the hopelessness and all of that war and the way. Yeah, so I don't know once again.

Speaker 5: I've seen very little of it. It's got some amazing footage, but right off the top I notice who are the productions backgrounds.

Speaker 2: Oh, you can't.

Speaker 5: Whoa, the Mellon foundation. I mean, the most rich, really well.

Speaker 2: Koch brothers, Koch Priyaa, David Koch.

Speaker 5: I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: Yeah that's up there in big letters right there, so yeah.

Speaker 5: So politically very mainstream. Very not going to really get into the deep waters.

Speaker 2: Right, right? But the foot, but the footage itself is just like been here, done that. And did you see, like? Like I said, old Walter Cronkite, they're like good night from Chicago, where we're in a police state or something. And then the obnoxiousness and insanity of Richard good old Dick Nixon and Spiro Agnew. I mean some of this stuff, and I think the. The millennials, as they are characterized or the Gen X or the younger people who they you wonder like there’s no memory they didn't live through this they didn't see this and it was, it was retold and replayed as Forrest Gump and a movie. But the outrage and the indignation and the terror amongst liberals, with each racist tweet or misogynist tweet. Or that this whole. There's a certainnocence to think we haven't seen this before, or this hasn't this game hasn't been played. This the same old, checkers black and white. You jump my team. I'll jump your guy.

Speaker 5: Yeah, the thinness of that. The level, that's all. You think about or are aware of. I mean, yeah, like. Hey, It’s remarkable.

Speaker 2: And to just be able to manipulate or enthrall such a significant part of the population with the idea that has any relevance to what to do or how to act when the hurricane hits your town, or when who. Who knows what? What tomorrow's headline stories going to be? But when there's a real? Real stuff going on when malnutrition in the urban centers of the United States right becomes a leading cause or opioid. Deaths become leading cause of death and too obscure any real attention to deaths of death spiration You know what, what society what? What what civilization? You know? Where are you coming from? What can be done different? And that just all gets obscured in this drama. Incredible dramand it's like these clowns have been here before. You know the clowns, the whole charade. You believe which T-shirt are you wearing today, hope or make America great again which hat? Do you wear which hat or which T-shirt?

Speaker 5: We'll put, yeah, yeah. And they do just a little bit better, and that includes anarchists too. That includes us. What do we have to control? That's frankly, as I've said before, a low level of discourse and again the disgraceful, the outrage of. Being finding ITS all exciting and interesting and selling it, that's just almost unbelievable.

Speaker 2: Well and fetches dovetails into. I'm just going to keep hitting on that desk of desperation because that is nihilism that is where the two are hand in hand.

Speaker 4: Yeah we do. This great.

Speaker 5: All right? Mr. Gray.

Speaker 7: Yes, I am here.

Speaker 5: Alrighty, what's happening?

Speaker 7: I just wanted to say a quick thing to Catherine. I like her death of desperation. Phrase I think maybe what we're actually looking at in a larger scale is death by distraction.

Speaker 2: That's another yeah.

Speaker 7: All this just distraction from what's going on, and that's what we're mostly going to die from. As long as they can keep us distracted.

Speaker 5: Good point, that's part of the machine that's for sure.

Speaker 2: Sensory overload.

Speaker 7: Circus is not new.

Speaker 5: No, it's not new.

Speaker 2: There's OK, thanks, great thanks for calling.

Speaker 7: OK, yeah, right right.

Speaker 5: Take care man. Well, we've got. The answers though in so many ways, I mean. If you want to. Get in a little bit here on the tech thing new scientists for September 18th. Talks about chat bots and we've got the artificial intelligence, so to speak. With Siri Alexa, you can have a conversation. Here's a here's an advance on this. Chat bots for the dying kid you not. Conversations people near the end of their lives sometimes don't get the chance to have these important conversations before it's too late. That just is staggering. That's not a conversation. I'm sorry, but it's could instead, said this piece starts, could chat bots lend a non judgmental ear to people making decisions about the end of their life. A virtual age and helps people have conversations. Yeah, yeah, get your life in order at the end by talking to a machine that this really. I don't know how you drop that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah no and I would just put that with this. You know this whole latest thing about Facebook and the politics. So we've got somebody. We've got a whole crowd looking in live radio. But anyway, yeah, Facebook's.

Speaker 5: Clicking in the window nice.

Speaker 2: Algorithm problem was the one article I clipped on it, but it's this. This whole recognition, this whole all the chitter chatter about the election and Trump and electoral politics. And the Russians stealing the election or who stole what it or whatever and you've just got this incredible. Incredible relationship to Facebook and the. We'll have to quote from the article thing why Facebook matters is how I would phrase it. Facebook has become the go to site for anyone hoping to reach a big audience because most of its systems are either largely or entirely automated. Facebook saves money through community policing, relying heavily on its users to do the leg work of flagging their content. Blah blah blah. This, combined with deep surveillance based profiling, enormous scale automation, lack of sufficient human oversight and a tendency to react to public relations crises. Instead of making proactive changes, helps us to explain blah blah blah Facebook and their role in the election. And I, I think It’s worthwhile to pay attention. I mean, the focus is on the election and how it affected the election. But really, what you're talking about is the ability to manipulate people and systems, and so your little chat box to talk about dying. Could just be another way to enforce polity policy of euthanasia or something you can't not might like to listen to you and advise you a bit of you're not really productive to society anymore. You old sucker go die, but really, I mean that there is. There's it's like giving up human agency to machines. Just hand it over because what? Because I can take a picture of myself, a selfie that proves I exist. You know, because I have no identity. I have nothing other than my connection. The machine.

Speaker 5: Yeah, you certainly have no privacy and. I think, relatedly, there were. Let's see, this was the 18th. There were two Wall Street Journal articles on that same day. Ringing the alarm bell about what is hackable, which is everything. Driverless, cars, smartphone, or smart home the smart you have everything wired.

Speaker 2: Right, right, and this supposed to be news that it's all hackable, whereas every day there's a story. Somebody else hatch, oh.

Speaker 5: For sure, for example,, this from the BBC. Imagine a hacker remotely turning off a life support machine, any Brexit, death.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Whether it's a. Going to happen or not, or shutting, shutting down. Anything ? Again, the hacking. Oh, and here's a good. Here's a good piece of that from the Sun. A cyber security sign that has issued a bizarre warning that sex robots could one day rise up and kill their owners if hackers they could, they could breach the robot to defenses. The controls take control.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 5: Kill whoever is depraved enough to have. Sex with a robot in the 1st place. But yeah, there's nothing that they can't. Get into so. Carl, just the word of.

Speaker 4: The wise it's hot in here.

Speaker 5: Man yeah Gary. Oh geez, yeah. And like you said they the algorithm bit we started on that a little bit too.

Speaker 2: But it really really it. It is about control manipulation. You get all the information we people willingly give it. You know where you taking your picture of yourself with your selfie.

Speaker 5: It was about a week ago or so. Another aspect of that in terms of surveillance techno can there's now artificial intelligence in some application can detect whether people are gay or straight. What what their politics are, what their IQ? Yeah, this just around the corner. It'll be operative and all it is a photo of your face from that supposedly alone due to some algorithmic deal.

Speaker 2: Right, right? Right so you? I mean, you're supposed to. Your belief system is that, yeah, that. So they take a picture. They look on my face and they tell me, whoa, I'm I'm an old man. I had no idea but. That whole, going back to the whole thing of agency and control is just like you choose to. It’s yeah, it's a one way St you go down that you go down that road and the machine is going to tell you what you are and who you are and what you believe and whether or not your life support machine should be turned off.

Speaker 5: It is. And they even. If you make the claim that It’s diagnostic, the all this digital phenotyping they called do again with algorithms and all the rest of it with photo imaging and so forth. So the technological culture isolates and depresses. But then it comes around like it pretty much always does. It's created the problem that comes around. Oh, but now we can fix it because see where we can tell you need help, right?

Speaker 2: Right right, yeah no. I mean, it's a it's an ugly new world.

Speaker 5: Can tell everything. Yeah, and what does it depend on? That industrial energy production that never stops last Friday? This this from out of what field, I don't know, but. Nine elephants were electrocuted in East Botswana when they came in contact with the foul ball and power line. It's all technology. Sure it is. And but some people, they raise these timid alarms. Maybe you saw this piece. I think it was in The Sunday Times we could go by Nicholas Carr who wrote the shallows, ? These are not the robots were promised. You know. In other words, creepy. You think it's they're supposed to look like us and sound like us and everything and? Yeah, It’s the chat bots advance and all the rest of. It keeps on going. You know that old phrase, the uncanny valley. There is a little difference between humans and machines. Let us pray, yeah, I mean. Yeah, and he's talking about what does this tell us about society as we as we move in this direction these. Disembodied the machines that you're supposed to just keep us quiet and supply all these things. Even to the point of death, were just saying, whoa. Yeah, and man, there's a piece Sunday the 17th. In Amish country, the future is calling and this all about how these. Laptops, cell phones and everything. Yeah, this the Amish. They're losing their grip on the anti tech thing is pretty good article, it's it. It really discloses all this in a a cool way. And then it's it says. It refers to the kids chasing butterflies in the garden. How long they going to be chasing those butterflies. You know now they're going to be hooked. Up to the to the life sucking machines. Unless I mean it's not a done deal, but that's where it's going. The future is calling as they point out. 11

Speaker 2: Those butterflies will be little drones, surveillance yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, well butterflies are disappearing anyway, so. Young woman says she was upset by how people have become so attached to their phones. People are treating those phones like they are gods. They're bowing down to it at the table, bowing down to it when they're walking here we say we don't bow down to idols. And that's getting dangerously close. I think the Amish woman's noticing what's going on.

Speaker 2: I was trying to think who was who was isn't it that French author who lived back or something who talked about the position of submission and that's what the Amish woman is referring to? The same thing like the posture of the person with their phone and with their handheld device is in a. Submissive head down, bowing type position and you can see that if you just look around you where it is submission.

Speaker 4: I've read, do you ever hear this that the that same posture with your head down like 40 degrees like that? It's like a common posture that you have in church. You know about your head and everything and I've always heard that was a way to put you in a more suggestive state of mind.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: It's sort of. If that. Angle of your head and where the way your eyes naturally roll up in your head. That way, sort of induces a trance like state where you. More you become more into what's being told to you.

Speaker 5: Oh really, yeah.

Speaker 2: I would I would not be surprised if that wouldn't be another another aspect.

Speaker 5: Another part.

Speaker 2: Of just the whole.

Speaker 5: It yeah. I hadn't heard that's cool. I mean, it's. Not cool, but.

Speaker 4: Now everybody bow your head.

Speaker 5: Let's try this well. Curse is here. I think he's here. Probably he's in the building. Thank you so much, Catherine, that's so great.

Speaker 2: Ohh good to be down here good be.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we're going to slowly adjust the schedule, and hope this.

Speaker 2: And she'll be anarchic with me between now and the new year.

Speaker 5: OK.

Speaker 2: You'll never know when I'm going to appear.

Speaker 5: Well Cliff will be here on the 17th of October, and you'll probably be here on the 24th, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 5: There we go. Yeah, we're going to we're going to launch out now all the schools in session here at the University of Oregon and students everywhere. Some refer to them as rodents, but not be. Well, grab us next week. It'll be just Carl and me.

Speaker 2: That'll be good. I haven't heard from Carl for a while or Cliff.

Speaker 5: Yeah, cofidence surgery.

Speaker 2: Oh Kristen you yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, he'll be back before too long. And we're probably going to hear more about the rewilding events up in Portland.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say they didn't call in. We want to hear more on that.

Speaker 5: We're waiting a little bit closer to the actual event, which makes sense.

Speaker 2: Is it the end of October?

Speaker 5: The 20th to the 21st or 22nd right in there that. OK, here they're really good. I'm glad they have taken the initiative to do this. Already it looks really interesting. OK, see you next week. Be well.

09-12-2017

[audio]

Extreme weather/mutual aid. End times in the air, mass shootings. Plants vs. pollutantss. Android entered in portrait competition, online trust? Ugly art. "The Case Against Civilization," by John Lanchester, "Tech People," by Nagib Aminy @ Thisissomenoise.com. Action news, two calls.

09-05-2017

[audio]

Smoked out! The West is burning. Hurricane Harvey and the future of cities. "American Horror Story: Cult," Eden" TV series and what they tell us. Tech as the new religion - while civ reveals itself all the more fully. One call (about indis- criminate violence), action briefs.

08-29-2017

[audio]

Hurricane Harvey - a "natural" disaster? Chomsky now a primitivist; The Chiseler strikes again! Global over-heating/extinctions/air pollution/recalls news. Forest Defenders R back. Cliff at Seattle Anarchist Book Fair. Stephen Pinker: Enlightenment Now(!) Action news, one call.

08-22-2017

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Cascadia Cave. Rising fascist threat ??(e.g. Boston, Durham) Coral, kelp dying out globally. Barcelona jihadists "normal"! Anews editorial #25: Subjectivism 101. David Byrne, Zizek(!) on technology. A vaccine for heroin. LED eyelashes, NurturePod by Stuart Candy. One call.

08-15-2017

[audio]

Alice and John do the show. Charlottesville weekend; How big is the fascist threat? Scary civ news of the week. Our 8 days in New York. Modern humans in SE Asia 20,000 years earlier than thought. Google uber alles. Action news, one call.

08-08-2017

[audio]

JZ back from NYC, Kathan co-hosts. Global HEAT. Gulf of Mexico dead zone growing. Air conditioning killing planet, isolation bigger cause of death than obesity. More dead cops. Black Seed#5. The insanity of mental health via smartphones. Artificial Intelligence not panning out. Action news, one call.

07-25-2017

[audio]

Check out '80s movie "Cutters Way", Laura Dassow Walls' new Thoreau biography, Affluence and Abundance by James Suzman, and Laylat Revolutionary Left Radio(!). Major drought, disease reports. China goes for astrology. Nihilism expanded. True Companion: an AI robot one can buy and simulate rape. Action news, one call.

07-18-2017

[audio]

Show's over, ITS. New England Journal of Medicine: "The current level of air pollution is toxic." Full Stop. Delaware-size iceberg breaks off Antarctica. Breaking the Spell by Chris Robe. Leftist take on Hamburg G20. Death of George Romero, birth of zombie culture. Robot drowns in fountain; listen to podcasts 4x as fast. Ad of the week: Qualcomm/ in love with phone. Action news, one call.

07-11-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Hamburg!!! ITS hits new low (31st communique). Trap of high tech medicine. The proximity of an iphone - on or off - makes you stupid. "Biological annihilation" (6th mass extinction well underway). Tennis star too "bored" to win at Wimbledon. Digital theme park in Thailand opening. Air on cruise ship decks gravely polluted. Lots of action news, three calls.

Speaker 2: Who goes there?

Speaker 3: Yes, of course, who'd you?

Speaker 2: Think Oh well then that's OK. OK, who may I ask, are you? Where Rudolph and Hermie and you can't, Cornelius.

Speaker 4: Sir, who are you?

Speaker 2: I'm the official sentry of the island of Misfits.

Speaker 1: KWV AU.

Speaker 2: Yes, my name. Is don't tell. Jack no Charlie, that's why I'm a misfit toy. My name is all wrong, no child. Wants to play with a Charlie in. The box so I had to come here where's?

Speaker 1: Here KWB yeah Eugene happy holidays.

Speaker 5: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of KWB, a Eugene, or anyone else.

Speaker 1: That's right, you are listening to anarchy radio on kid with Eugene. We're going to start off tonight with what we promised you last week, but we actually have it now. Enrique galecki Symphony #3

Speaker 5: Alrighty, it's June 11th. And joining legend me Kathryn is here to co-host.

Speaker 4: Town from Portland at the regular going to be the second Tuesday of every month.

Speaker 5: Thank you. OK alright yeah. Second Tuesdays. From now on.

Speaker 4: Try that for a while.

Speaker 5: Well, I'd say the big news was Hamburg, Hamburg, Hamburg, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, and I don't think we have to go into details. It's available all over the place. Quite amazing 20,000 pigs were not enough. And I noticed the post mortem yesterday in the New York Times and one of the one of theadlines was German officials were caught off guard by waves of protests.

Speaker 4: That was Wall Street journals was. Germany seeks to explain how G20 riots spiraled.

Speaker 5: And they did spell Mark supermarkets looted and major damage and arsons across. All over almberg

Speaker 4: 476 officers injured. According to the bunch of vehicles burning.

Speaker 5: Yes, yes. Yeah, extensive war zone. And yeah, just when they thought and maybe some of us some of the. Rest of us thought. Things were really on the wane. These people, these fat cats, thought they could have it in a major city instead of some fortress. Some isolated place, or some island where. Where people would wanted to make trouble couldn't even reach, but they made the mistake of miscalculating on that one. I think that's. You never know these days things seem seems dead and then bang.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know how many years I think it was a decade that they only could go out of the cities. So this was, pretty big unexpected yeah.

Speaker 5: I think you're right, it was about 10 years.

Speaker 1: That's the first I'm hearing of it.

Speaker 5: Ah, you don't watch your cable news too much, huh? Well, it was pretty giant and it raged. All of those three days till it started on the eve of the thing and it was still going strong Saturday night. And the wow the footage is pretty incredible and just. Just to take it in and then there was the unrelated deal. All those Porsches still in their crates. Apparently somewhere on the outskirts of Hamburg. That was another. And tank had nothing to do with G20 as I understand it, they burned. I don't know how many brand new Porsches that has been shipped.

Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't see about the Porsches.

Speaker 5: Well, and yeah, there's I don't know if anybody wants to call us 5413460645. About Hamburg or whatever, we're going to get into a few things tonight, I know. And here's the latest. Speaking of pigs, the guy the cop in Minnesota who was acquitted last month. Killing the black motorist. Philando Castile shot the guy seven times. And today he got his. He got $48,500 from his local pig station. In the Minneapolis suburb. So there's a bounty on blacks. I guess you gunned them down. This guy was not doing nothing sitting in his car with his girlfriend and her daughter shot just point blank 7 times and he got paid 48,000 bucks for it.

Speaker 4: Get a reward, huh?

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the. That's the reward you get. OK. Well, I think we got a call already. I don't think there were any last week. Yeah, good deal.

Speaker 7: We have a.

Speaker 1: We have a. Call all right. We have Dave Townsend from the Midwest. Let me get him on here.

Speaker 3: Hey John, yeah Dave yeah. Dave Hansen Midwest calling in from yeah I did man I listen to you guys every week and I just I know you're talking about climate change a lot. I'm not too sure exactly. You know, if you think I'm. Pearson's a nihilist or not? I'm not sure. Do you think he's a nihilist?

Speaker 5: No, I don't know. I, I wouldn't say, but he's. He made announcement of what a couple of years ago now that there's no hope there's no, we ain't going to win thing. And maybe that's over shadowed. I think he's had a lot to say and I've but I've got to confess. I sort of fixated on that. That's come on man, don't slam the door in possibilities, I'm not.

Speaker 3: No no no no no.

Speaker 5: You know what I mean? But no, I'm not. I'm not down on him.

Speaker 3: OK well cool man because he's gonna be. I'm calling up. Because he's doing a Midwest tour, he's starting up in Milwaukee tomorrow. He's going to be in the South side of Chicago tomorrow night, which is Thursday and then he's going to go up to Madison. So nature bats last. If people want to talk to the man. You can see them live here in the Midwest big.

Speaker 5: And catch the radio show too. He's still doing the nature of bats last days.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's once. A month he. He's doing a he's he's doing like a video thing now. And I'm not so sure about the radio thing anymore because I think he missed it last. What was up yesterday or whatever but.

Speaker 8: OK.

Speaker 3: Either way, man. Hey I did your show and. You know the message. Is out man. The message is out. You know. It's like the radicals are here. You know we are the radicals, right?

Speaker 5: All right, hey, thanks for theads up man.

Speaker 3: You know, alright, great, I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 5: Appreciate it all right. Take care.

Speaker 3: Bye bye.

Speaker 5: Midwest going in.

Speaker 4: There you go, staying up late out there.

Speaker 5: OK, this something I know. Maybe we both want to get out of the way and not even go there, but the the thing. The reference to Homburg. There was a reference in the 31st ITS communique. It's a whole little issue in itself, whether that's available or maybe people have more or less wisely decided not to distribute. It I don't. You know, but. 325 No state was apparently going to do was going to offer their own critique of the individualist, tending toward the wild. But as you read, I think they didn't. They haven't yet done it, so these ITS people a little impatient.

Speaker 4: A little impatient they couldn't wait, so makes me wonder, was 325 no state going to do or not?

Speaker 5: They couldn't wait. Well, they haven't been around for the last two months and they've been around forever. They're very real. Well, I don't know what's up, probably no.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I just taken ITS at face value is how?

Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe they left town.

Speaker 4: To live the world.

Speaker 5: They thought they might get shot. Anyway, the reference to the vacation, the thing said. Yeah, well, maybe they went on vacation in Hamburg, yeah facing 20,000 pigs is a party is a vacation to you, but not murdering some young woman trying to make a phone call. Or two hikers a couple out in the woods. Well, that's real stuff there, and that's real come. That these people are more nuts than ever. This last one. And of course, they always say we're not. We're not about trying to convince anyone, so why do you keep pumping out these? These communiques It’s a bit of a joke and they actually said in the thing here that this latest one. They took credit for killing three people in May, but they were strongly implying, if not explicitly saying that they've killed more people than that than. They've taken credit for. So they're bad, they're totally bad.

Speaker 4: They, oh, they like to they like to carry on and boast and bloodbath is their thing. But oh Hamburg, ? Oh it's just.

Speaker 5: Yeah no. Well, in another death threat I got the first one and now this Scott Campbell Mr Campbell. You should value your life more. Tell me that's not a death threat. So I think some people are. Finally fed up with this psychopath stuff.

Speaker 4: For the whole communique was this step over this line? Come on down? Find us, come on down, thing, yeah, reminds me 1020 years ago, the.

Speaker 5: Yeah, bring your guns.

Speaker 4: Young males juvenile juveniles who were enchanted with snuff films. You know it is the same same dance focus.

Speaker 5: Oh my God. That's because yeah and how about the? The Gringo critics of the racial thing, they're gringo critics of ITS are ****** fagots. They're they're, they're just way, they've lost it. Whatever show they've been putting on, they're now just blowing it this absurd, homophobic bitter. The macho deal is, is even I didn't think you could get lower, but I think they maybe have. And of course it does have the nihilist punch line the I'm quoting the era, in which we find ourselves has no escape. Well, that's great. That's Trump couldn't have said it any better, right? No escape, no hope. So these people are already as if they weren't for years now already off the rails, but. Yeah, this just a goofy thing and the part of it that's not offensive is just rambling about various right wingers and leftists around the world. What is the? What is the point? What what is that all about? What is it have to do with anything? It's really something and yeah, and the people who I'm glad that various people have backed away from this. And there anybody is invited to if you think this 1 sided and wrong then pick up your phone.

Speaker 4: Watching more and more people are are registering in that it's not 1 sided and that it is that ITS is a bunch of loonies.

Speaker 1: We have

Speaker 4: You know pathological loonies.

Speaker 5: And we both noticed. This post to anarchist news. Which I and I've tried to get a message, tried to get answer from the news folks about whether this represents them. I don't think it probably came from anyway, it's very short. It says and this was yesterday the 7th. I mean the 10th check the Atassa blog. I won't link to it. It hasn't communicated the threatened violence against anarchist. I think this the second anarchist. They threaten to kill. I think that is enough to lose the ability to be published here. So I don't know if that's the editorial policy of anarchist news or just somebody else who feels that it should be. That it was at briefly yesterday at Anarchist News and then it disappeared. So anyway.

Speaker 4: That's undoubtedly a positive development.

Speaker 5: Yeah, and I totally agree with. You Katherine, it's just. We've been in this cesspool too long to even, to discuss it at all. Is is appalling and puts you in need of a shower. As I see it.

Speaker 4: Now I would say if people get their jollies on that and want to take it to a higher level, they could read some of the old Russian novelists like try Google or Turgenev just aski. You know, you could get a sampling of. Young out of control. Males would be my.

Speaker 5: Well, young and nutsy and I agreed with the point that Aragorn made on the recent the brilliant deal where he said a lot of this is almost verbatim from the Catechism of the Revolution or by nature. In the 19th century Russian it was just straight up nihilist. Thing, and I thought that was a very. Good point. I mean that in. Itself, you have to. You have to then suss it out well. What's wrong with that, of course is the next question, but.

Speaker 4: Well, I think there were some remarks on the archived show from last week of Anarchy Radio that. That showed showed to me some commonality. It was some challenger who didn't have the money to call in. With that, Aragorn or somebody was responding that they wouldn't be calling in the show because they don't have, .

Speaker 5: I guess I. Missed that.

Speaker 4: I guess they don't have unlimited calling or whatever.

Speaker 5: Oh well, I noticed Eric Gardens where you. Somebody said why don't you call the show when there isn't trashes on you and you never call? You know you don't call him, he said. We have a fine relationship. I don't think there's any need for any big debate. Which I found a little surprising, but fine. If that's the way.

Speaker 4: Well and I'm pretty sure yeah, and that's what I.

Speaker 5: It's not about a personal abuse.

Speaker 4: I didn't see a defense of the. ITS manifestation of nihilism and it was like I'm not a nihilist and interesting. That was what I thought was interesting. Making a correlation with spirituality. Trying to ? That then maybe there's some relationship. A blood sacrament. Or, that there's.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that well that was a little bit surprising. The Abe Contrera quote or his commentary that. That politics now becomes theology, and he is at some point or another. If not now, he's a a Christian. Theology guy. I mean that raises various questions.

Speaker 4: Theology and philosophy. You know it's like, yeah.

Speaker 5: One thing real Christian to go out and murder people for no reason.

Speaker 4: SO table.

Speaker 5: But anyway, yeah I. Wasn't quite following that. Alrighty, well go ahead if you want to jump in. I've been checking all that.

Speaker 4: Well, well, I guess I'll just go into a little bit of tech because that's what if you're all caught up in the ITS stuff and all that you there's no no acknowledgement, critique, nothing, just utilization of the current technology do. Continue the present situation perhaps. But no, the all this talk about Obamacare and Trumpcare and all that all about just funding of thealthcare system and it's like creating diversion. Nobody don't look behind the curtain and see what has has been going on and. Is going on at a hugely accelerated rate. And my sources this week they were Wall Street Journal articles last week, but especially about crisper crisper. Is the new way we can tinker with life itself, rewriting the code of Life has never been so easy. Christopher, I think somebody asked for. What's the acronym stand for? Clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats, but basically it makes editing DNA easy and cheap and it's being. Advertised as this wonderful going to cure sickle cell anemiand cancer all this great stuff with oh. But of course there's risks, but they're not really enumerated or looked at, but you can guess that disaster would be a consequence of. You know, replicating DNA that may be. Produced robotic type soldiers, aggressive ITS types, individuals but something releasing like something that reproduces like that life forms is just like never been there. Never done that. Going on the Uncharted territory contributing to. To absolute disaster and that. The article the gene editors are only getting started. They did an interview with Jennifer Doudna, who's the Berkeley scientist who's been in on zapping the DNA of and she's just written a book, a crack in creation. trying to explain more what's going on. You know what it is. It's being done. under radar because it's not considered or tagged as genetically modified because it's not genetic modification, it's just taking over the gene itself.

Speaker 5: Well, I wonder how long they're going to get away with saying they're only. Getting started, they've. Been making these claims which haven't produced anything, so it's accurate in that sense, we're only getting started well. So when are you going to, make good on some of these things. Not that I wanted to go forward, of course. Yeah, like you said it, it's it just opens the door. To all this stuff so.

Speaker 4: Well, I mean it opens like an unbelievable door in terms of people thought cloning was a little worrisome. Emerge genetic genetic modification of organisms, stuff. This like more of that accelerated technology. Just moving so fast without. Without really understanding what you're doing, one of the one of the things now the patent holders are going to pool so that they can release it faster. I mean, everything's on fast track and how wonderful it is.

Speaker 1: Well, the dangers of developing any technology have never stopped us before, so I doubt that they will this time.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4: The big players involved Broad Institute, University of California, Berkeley. They like fighting over the patent, so if they settle that then they all get to move ahead.

Speaker 5: They figure they'll be big.

Speaker 4: Right? Potentially revolutionizing the treatment of disease.

Speaker 5: And also in that same weekend, Wall Street Journal. Did you see that piece called the Smart Medicine solution? We need the tools of information age medicine. Well, that's another thing that hasn't paid off. I mean, It’s boosted healthcare costs enormously, and there's study after study that says it. It doesn't give. You better results than the than the older ways to do it. Isn't that right?

Speaker 4: I mean it's constant like that. Yeah, that was. I mean it is it's for investment in the cheaper sensors. Simpler and more routine imaging regular regular use of now. Widely available genetic analysis algorithms and artificial intent. Intelligence to make it possible for doctors to rapidly apply blah blah blah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, they're dreaming. They're just making more fantasy claims that the fact is it's enormously expensive. It's just hugely raised. The cost of medicine.

Speaker 4: Enormously expensive hands off go go go into, go into your provider.

Speaker 5: Hands off.

Speaker 4: And I mean I can't get over with all of this. They're always redoing thealth record so that they have up-to-date information and you still you better bring in your bottles of medicine because they don't know what you're taking or what's been prescribed. You know, but now they’re advising even. You know that constant updating that information the individual, so tracking your heart rate, your blood pressure, everything just day-to-day to day-to-day to intense but. Not listen to somebody or touch them. No, I don't think we want. To do that?

Speaker 5: Or have the subject the patient be more in touch with their own body instead of all these technical technical metrics that you're supposed to. Be computing.

Speaker 4: And then also don't forget the medical coaches, the Siri Alexa type.

Speaker 3: All right?

Speaker 4: That's also the other piece. Yeah, throw in your own personal coach, John.

Speaker 5: It is one of my favorites from UCLA News today. This. Things about depression. And the enormous cost of antidepressants and so forth. But now the similar Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior at UCLA is doing transcranial magnetic stimulation, which targets. Which beams targeted magnetic pulses deep inside patients brains and approach that has been likened to rewiring a computer? Isn't it unbelievable?

Speaker 4: No, that.

Speaker 5: Your brain is a computer, yeah?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah no that was that was the other one on.

Speaker 5: That's crazy.

Speaker 4: Basically there was a one of their little articles was telepathic telepathy by using that same technology, different article. But the same thing flashed light in the brain and then what's reflected back. You can measure neural activity, neural activity, neural networks. You know you're not seeing behind the scenes what. What this ? What is it we're just talking about Obamacare and how to fund this? You know, intense, intense machination, Mac. How would you say machining of the body, basically?

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the model. Have you seen little? Just one thing I constantly trip on is how? All of these promises all these claims that get more grandiose. They come and go, then they'll change the subject and boost something else, which may or may not pan out. Usually it doesn't. Meanwhile, today Takata is adding a new type of airbag inflator to the nation's largest auto recall, adding 2.7 million vehicles to the recall. Because of these airbag things you think they can't do that other stuff. How hard is it to make a safe airbag? Apparently it's impossible. It's just impossible. But you're supposed to believe in all these sort of crap. Part mechanistic model. Things like your brain is just a machine. We just rewire it as if it's a piece of equipment. I mean, it's that's crazy. But yeah, they can't even do. They can't build a car that doesn't get recalled, so why would anyone think? You know this the. I guess the wackier they make it really the most grandiose. You're supposed to believe it's. Foolproof or something when they can't do simple.

Speaker 4: Well, you're supposed to just buy it and let it happen. Then what then? The consequences that the planet is uninhabitable anymore? Well, you're supposed to be surprised. Where did this come from? The other one career? The future robots psychologist is basically along the lines of what you're saying. It's like the artificial intelligence. The way it work. Is through training experience into networks of simulated neurons. The result is in code, but an unreadable tangled mass of millions of artificial neurons and basically what? You program in the machine, begins programming itself, and then you lose track, so you don't even know how it's making decisions, and so that's like the self driving cars or whatever.

Speaker 8: Right then.

Speaker 4: It's like why it would choose to ram your vehicle head on into another vehicle. We're not sure that can happen, but we don't know what the robot, what the machine was thinking, where it went wrong.

Speaker 5: The control disappears in various ways I guess.

Speaker 4: It's important to know when an AI will fail or behave unexpectedly.

Speaker 5: Really, virtually guaranteeing it to start usord virtually. Here's a bit of a virtual thing that else notices for celebrity cruises.

Speaker 4: Yeah, really.

Speaker 5: You've got these fantastically big giant hotels. On the water. For that. Somehow move around and you imagine you're on the CPU or something I guess. The latest One Eden, is a transformational new space on Celebrity Edge. This part of celebrity cruises and I couldn't. I don't actually. Know what this all about, but the ad full page ad magazine ad there's no need to suspend reality. We'll do it for you. And this ostensibly an ad for taking a cruise ship.

Speaker 4: Is it a real cruise?

Speaker 5: Well, it is a real cruise, but apparently this these ships or this Eden line of celebrity cruises is. It changes, It’s the sort of high tech design thing and it's got performance, art and all sorts of stuff. It's like a big show. I mean, you, why not stay? Why get on the ship, ?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: I mean, It’s really hard to follow here, but they’re trying to peddle the same high tech stuff. Or virtual reality stuff. I guess there's no need to suspend reality. We'll do it for you. Is that where you want to go on an ocean cruise? I mean, don't you?

Speaker 1: Maybe you can sit in a virtual reality chamber that takes you on a virtual cruise while you're. On the cruise.

Speaker 5: While you're on the cruise, yeah, or I guess, yeah, It’s something like that.

Speaker 4: You'd be on the Willamette, and you think you're going down the Nile?

Speaker 5: Or you could sit on your couch and get fat and diabetic and the and the dream that you're not paying thousands of dollars to sit on your couch. But you're actually, I don't know. I don't even some of these things are so. Out there that it's hard to tell. There's no, there's a. There's a photo of the interior. It looks like a Arboretum or something in the middle. Lots of greenery and decks and everything lighting and stuff, but I don't see the ocean. It's got to be there somewhere. Well, we maybe we should take a music break. I think we have. We got Zappa for the break.

Speaker 1: Frank Zappa.

Speaker 5: Oh yes, the classic valley girls. The classic.

Speaker 9: Please and see what's so exception. Throws like the Galleria. I'm like all these like really great shoe stores. I like love going into like clothing stores and stuff I Like buy the neatest mini skirts and. Stuff like show pitching just like everybody. 's like Super super nice like so like. Anyway, he goes. Are you into apps now I got. Oh right could. You like just picture me in a like a leather petty yeah right hurt me hurt yeah. Sure, new way it was like. Freaking yeah. He called me a Beastie. That's like his topics list together like bag your face I'm sure.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 9: Really sad. Like my English. He's like. Mr booboo We're talking, I'm sorry. Lord God, Jesus. Like right like? This sort of like place with all this rain, he's been like all the guys in the class like this guys and I'm like so sure like bark me out yeah.

Speaker 3: Buying the fair, it's fair and square. Nails guys.

Speaker 9: So like I go into the Flex salon, place in here and I want like to get my toenails done and the. Lady like goes. Oh my God, your toenails are like so Brody. It was like really embarrassing. She's like Oh my God like bag this toenails I'm. Like sure she goes. I don't know if I can handle this, I. Was like, totally embarrassed. Like my mother's like a total space cadet. She's like make me do the dishes and. Clean the cat box. I am sure. It's like close. Work out.

Speaker 6: Hi my name, my name is Andrew Wilson Andrea.

Speaker 9: I know.

Speaker 5: And we're off, we're back, we're on to Action News and everything surprising these days, I guess. But it's we do have some good stuff here. Was a reference to the ongoing refugee solidarity occupations in Athens. This run by anarchists and there's been a battle over that, and I'd like to get an update on that. And let's see.

Speaker 4: Call us call in nothing.

Speaker 5: Yeah, call us from Athens or if something about it and we got a couple of things as usual that only appeared but are certainly not just from the past week, they're prior to that. England, the very the sort of the beginnings of the country's shale industry that they're starting up with the fracking, or they're going to try to, but. Between 18th and the 24th of May, somebody entered the facility. Regarding the onshore drilling. Yeah, this shale gas drilling major damage and it's caused a big deal according to a source, the rig was attacked with sledgehammers to smash its touch screen, computers and windows components were drilled out. Thematic pipes and electrical cables were cut. This got their attention. This like a major. Concerted deal and let's see. This also further back, but just revealed in English anyway. Eight or more vehicles of the RDF Corporation in France. That's an electrical power distro outfit in Grenoble. Explicitly anti tech. June 30th also June 30th in Christ, France. The offices of the energy company Anitys, which I think is somehow allied with the RDF. Was burned with 10 liters of gasoline and to communicate with this following this accompanying. This was not only anti tech but anti civilization which they say civilization itself at the genesis of domination. And domestication, which makes us civilized. Signed by kick. The conspiracy on individualistic complicity. K articles all and K's mostly in case which in English is conspiracy of complicit individuals and chaotics not the greatest name. Very cool. And it's the June 30th. Yeah, this the same deal and they go they I'm not going to go further into the communication. Alf stuff. June 30th in Santiago office. Office of the Government Bureau, Agriculture and Livestock Service hit with 10 fire bombs. Van Thorsted ink and the mink farm in Italy, near Venice, on July 1st. And various shooting towers were destroyed in various places in the UK. On July 5th, various groups were involved in the concerted. Thing and on the night of Thursday, July 6th, we penetrated within the enclosure of the Anitas building and, well, this. This the same deal the arson increst the energy supplier and they just. I guess. What is it about energy and technology? It's pretty good stuff. The question this at some real depth for sure, and I'll see also Thursday the 6th we set fire to signal cables for the coal line on the in the Rhine. While in Hamburg the cops were busy. We used the quiet of the night in the absence of our cops to pay a hostile visit to the to RWE, which is a coal extraction company and they burned the cables, supplying energy. Yeah, I mentioned the Porsche attack on a large number of Porsches. It doesn't say. That was yeah late last week Friday night. They were yeah in their original packages. As it says, the luxury cars outside the port center. And Sunday, July 9th fire destroyed part of the conveyor belt used to transport. The nickel ore. In Kaaua in New Caledonia, in the South Pacific. There was a fire in the wee hours there. Wasn't the first time that this outfit has been attacked. And or set on fire or people trying to stop the toxic mining down there and over the weekend I don't know why there wasn't much about this. Maybe it's just me who couldn't find it but Oakland this past weekend. 4 fire. Major fire in the wee hours at a construction site. Two days ago. There was another construction site, arson. And federal arson investigators. Being called in is yeah. People are taking these new developments. Great Big photo looks like giant. In the Burnley area in Central England June 8th tires slashed on trucks at slaughterhouses we sliced the tires of every single meat truck at the slaughterhouse. And Digbeth, which is near Birmingham and lots of other damage. Animal rights movement in Birmingham is gaining momentum. I heard that somewhere else too. Yeah, and one last thing last night. In Bigsby, Oklahoma, suburb of Tulsa. An explosion seems like it was a pipe bomb, struck a US Air Force recruiting office. In Bixby in northeast Oklahoma. Mom scrub short. I was the. It was the second time. This week that they that there was a recruiting office bombed. In Bixby OK, which is of course the big center of radical activity, amazing. So yeah, that's some of it. I know I never get it all, that's for sure, but. And Collins 5413460645. And Elijah is standing there, waiting, sitting there, waiting.

Speaker 1: Do it now before it's too late.

Speaker 4: Well, let's see been a lot of verbiage about extinction, so let's see the ends of the world is a new book. The fire last time about the five previous extinctions, and then the Guardians been giving some? Some coverage to Earth 6th 6th mass extinction event already underway, scientists warn.

Speaker 5: Yeah, there has been. Seems like all at once has been a bunch of stuff on that to biological annihilation is when? Called in a film about once again the Great Barrier Reef. The corals are dying all over the world. It's a film about the death of nature on the planet Earth. Point and again, tied together with the extinction news. The 6th grade extinction. It's not just an idea, obviously. Yeah, this proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences is sober sighted journal. They use the term biological annihilation. That the six mass extinction is definitely underway. Chasing coral. Yeah, that was the one and the line is.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: We're documenting the planet dying.

Speaker 4: We got nothing called.

Speaker 1: All right, we have Howard from North Carolina.

Speaker 4: Hello Howard.

Speaker 8: You were just talking about the mass extinction. I don't know if you're if you're familiar with what just came out today from the. National Academy of Science. About the six mass extinction. Of course there's nothing new, and that we've already known about this, but what is new? They their report said that the it's worse than they thought. They had previously thought. And they named-5 main drivers of this extinction. They said it was overpopulation overconsumption. Habitat loss. Toxic pollution and climate change. What they didn't mention was all five of those things can be traced back to. Technological developments over the last couple 100 years.

Speaker 5: Right, right? Yeah, why don't you realize this and what drives it, yeah?

Speaker 8: No, we're nothing.

Speaker 5: So how's it going down there? How's how's it going down there, man?

Speaker 8: It's been going pretty good. Hot very hot today.

Speaker 5: Huh, humid? I bet too huh?

Speaker 8: Excuse me

Speaker 5: Humid as well.

Speaker 8: Oh yeah, it's terrible today. It was in the 90s and. Felt like it's about 100 degrees. Most time tomorrow. And there was another related report saying that 71% of all greenhouse gas emissions. Can be traced to just 100 corporations around the world. And the leaders, of course, are the usual suspects like Exxon Mobil, BP and Chevron. So when. If he if anarchist wants something that's you on besides. Beating up on the fascists, maybe they can get on. Some of this stuff.

Speaker 4: There you go. Good advice, good recommendation.

Speaker 5: Good to hear from you, Howard. Take care man.

Speaker 8: Talk to you later bye.

Speaker 5: Yeah, this, but this something possibly related. If there's always some air pollution scariness going on this. This grab me this. This we could go in the Guardian. Check this out, passengers on cruise ships could be exposing themselves to dangerous levels of pollution. You're thinking well. Cruise ship. Cruise ships again, right? More than almost 2 million people from the UK, the Guardian Paper, right travel and Cruise each year. And they said it's the principal sign here. They're they're twice as polluted. As yeah here it is. Double the amount of particulates found at London's Piccadilly Circus. Obviously in theart of London. And these things are just grotesquely giant, and they carry thousands of people and everything but.

Speaker 4: They sound like airplanes. They must be, we're not getting the fresh ocean air, are you?

Speaker 5: I guess not. Yeah, the public areas and ships decks is where they were monitoring the air more polluted than the world's worst affected cities.

Speaker 4: Wow, yeah.

Speaker 5: I wouldn't have guessed it. They're gross in a lot of ways. You know in a. Anyway, that's just that was. It was always something top. How can you be poisoned by breathing story? And that's another one. And an old favorite. Obviously, of this program, for me anyway, is the shootings on Thursday. A woman in Georgia stabbed to death her four young children and her husband. And on Saturday night near Cincinnati, that's where that big nightclub shoot up was a week ago or so nine people shot. At a private residence, one fatally. Yeah, never never, never. Anybody in the mainstream medianyway. Talking about what this chronic phenomenon is saying about mass society and late civilization, not ever a word happens every day, but still. The enforced stupidity is being pumped out. I mean, usually it's just news. It's just in flat out news even and a lot of this doesn't even make the news because it's so common.

Speaker 4: Right?

Speaker 5: You know mass shootings? Well, what is there to say about that? Well, nothing has been said about it yet. Except in a few. Ours as such as.

Speaker 4: Ours, the only the only times really it's looked at is when it's. Funnels into a story on the War on Terror, but with the average, everyday workplace, family or school type stuff.

Speaker 5: Right, right, right.

Speaker 4: Well now it's like become people are used to it. It's not a story.

Speaker 5: It's quite amazing. Well this. I got one little thing here. I was thinking about the Ubik novels and how they're the two that I think of the first one and the most recent one about the end of the line. No more juice, just these deep seated crises that people don't know. What to make of it? You know it and very crudely summarizing. Anyway, this a story from last Wednesday. Bernard Tomic I think it's pronounce. Possibly the best Australian tennis player playing at Wimbledon. He beat this guy that he played in the first round recently. Just thrashed him. There was nothing to it. He lost to this. Guy and he said he was bored. You know, I mean, I don't really follow tennis. I mean, but Wimbledon. That's the World Series world. The thing about. Now maybe we're just running out of gas completely. He shows up and loses to this guy who is not. Even competitive, and in fact they said all three of the top three. Of the top Australian tennis players lost in the first round. I mean, why? Why even bother? I don't know why, but it struck me as part of the whole general entropy in some way or another, except for Hamburg. Don't want to forget, but it's just astounding it or stunning. They just said what, how? How could you have lost this match and he just. So I was bored. Anyway, and the others did too. I mean, it wasn't just him. If you're making too much out of this right?

Speaker 4: I don't know. I heard I think I heard something about that story and was something to maneuver their ways to hire. They proceed further in the tournament if they lost early or something. I didn't know.

Speaker 8: Well, they're gone, they're.

Speaker 5: They're back in Australia. They lost. They're they're done, they lose and you're finished.

Speaker 4: We're just too bored to deal with it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 4: Who knows?

Speaker 5: He just he wasn't saying any. I mean he wasn't making an excuse. Well, my ankle killed me. I've no wonder I lost or whatever.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Well, you get back to the tech thing you were bringing up here. Just I wish I had more on this, but there's a. There's a very extravagant digital theme park in Bangkok, Thailand. That just opened, it's just opened. Yeah, late last week. And I don't. Know what the digital theme park is, but. It shows the store where they saw all kinds of. E stuff toys and so on. And it says later this year. Theme park will offer virtual reality rides. It was like the cruise ship. I guess I don't know.

Speaker 1: Wonder if you can wait in a virtual line.

Speaker 8: OK.

Speaker 4: Yeah good so virtual ride, . That would be.

Speaker 5: Probably have to pay actual money though.

Speaker 1: Well then then you might have to talk to the people that are in line with you so.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: Maybe that's not so appealing.

Speaker 5: That's not good. Here's a great smartphone thing. This another. This from the University of Rochester. From Futurity is the. Is the place. New research indicates that our cognitive capacity is reduced whenever our phones are within reach. Whether it's turned on or off. Literally physically, if your phone is. Is is close you are dumb you just sort of yeah they conducted experiments with nearly 800 smartphone users in an attempt to measure for the first time how well people can complete tasks when they have their smartphones nearby, even when they're not using them. Or when they don't, when the phone is somewhere else. That amazing.

Speaker 4: That's pretty good. That's those neural networks you just be in the ambience of your smartphone and you're real dumb.

Speaker 5: It's just yeah we see a linear trend that suggests that as the smartphone becomes more noticeable, participants available cognitive capacity decreases. As this professor from University of Texas at Austin.

Speaker 1: So would that because part of their mind is thinking about if they would get a message or what they might like or whatever it is you do with the smartphone?

Speaker 5: That's yeah.

Speaker 4: Or I would think it's like you shut down because Google answer or whatever.

Speaker 5: Sounds logical.

Speaker 4: You just don't. You close off that part of your. Brain then you no longer can access that after a certain amount of conditioning.

Speaker 1: So the phone is going to have the answers for you so you don't need to think about it yourself.

Speaker 4: Right, right, right? Because it's all it's not about critical thinking or processing. Anything, it's just acquisition and throw it back. Regurgitation of information data.

Speaker 1: Not even accessing your own memory or experiences, yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no no, no, no. We wouldn't want any of that.

Speaker 5: Well, that sounds right, . And this piece didn't, even they didn't try to explain it, they were just strictly laying it out. The sort of the data part of.

Speaker 4: Yeah well no, that was what I found very learning in all the medical that I was trying to bring up is just this whole this whole feedback. Build upon that relates to the what's being financed in thealthcare system, but also in the AI and. It's all these these networks that are reproduce themselves, and essentially you lose control. You know it's all taken over for you.

Speaker 5: The algorithms take over thing.

Speaker 1: From Frank.

Speaker 4: Hello Frank.

Speaker 7: Hey hey, how's it going?

Speaker 4: Pretty good, what's up? You got a few minutes.

Speaker 7: Is it just you there tonight? Catherine oh.

Speaker 4: No, no John's here.

Speaker 5: We're here's here.

Speaker 7: Oh oh OK, yeah, I just had two quick questions John and a lot of your writings you talked about. You know the failure of symbolic thought and the the post modern. Whatever discoveries of language. Basically, I don't know impotent or meaningless, so I was just wondering, how do you find the motivation to continue writing and contributing to this symbolic culture and just confused about that? And my second question is. How do you survive day-to-day like what? What do you do for money you shelter or just? That's it.

Speaker 5: OK, well it is confusing. It's yeah, here we are in a totally symbolic culture and. Trying to figure it out. I mean It’s yeah there's and nobody is outside of it. I mean you can try to think. How it works or why it's here and all the rest of that stuff which I find fascinating, but we're still. Yeah, I'm writing and it's quite symbolic and painting, and we're doing these things. You know, and music and. So on and. Yeah, I'm just. Making an effort to come up with something, maybe some speculative questions that might. You know, come to. You know other questions? And the other thing is just I just live with everybody else. I'm so I'm going to be 74 next month. So I've been getting Social Security for a while. And we live pretty modestly and. But I I don't claim the slightest privilege. I don't live any differently. Don't have a don't have a credit card or an iPhone. I don't own a computer, few little things like that, but that’s nothing and it doesn't. There's no distinction there. So yeah, did you think I lived in a cave or something? No, yeah, like we're all in here together and so what's new with you? I’m kidding, I'm not.

Speaker 7: Nothing much, just I mean I got into a car accident back in. Back in April, but luckily I made it out fine and got a nice got a nice check out of that. Just trying to survive.

Speaker 5: Oh, like Carl's driving in foot biking in front of that car. Now he's getting a big check. No, I'm kidding. I'm glad you're doing OK.

Speaker 7: Just trying to survive by my wits, just trying to break into writing or something.

Speaker 5: Could I ask what part of the country you inhabit? Or is it this country?

Speaker 7: I'm in Florida.

Speaker 5: Ah Florida, right cool.

Speaker 7: OK yeah, thanks for the. Thanks for the succinct answers. I'll just keep listening to you.

Speaker 5: Thank you man. Thanks for calling us. Up take care.

Speaker 7: Take care.

Speaker 5: All righty, we got what have we got about a minute left and I know Chris trying to get in now with the automatic recording. It goes exactly from 7:00 o'clock to exactly 8:00 o'clock, right?

Speaker 1: Yeah, it starts a new file on the hour.

Speaker 5: You can't. And I'm glad how to do it, man.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here for you, John and. I would like to say it's been my great pleasure to be here with you and meet you, Katherine.

Speaker 5: And really appreciate it stepping up for that.

Speaker 4: Well, thank you.

Speaker 5: That lay about Carl out at the fair somewhere.

Speaker 1: You will be back next week to answer your phone calls and push the buttons and levers.

Speaker 5: Yeah, he'll be back, we'll. Right and your show is Thursday from. 6 to 8 eight.

Speaker 1: I am doing a music show with my co-host Hobby knife. Thursdays 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM on KWV Eugene. The station you are tuned to. Thanks for the plug.

Speaker 5: Well, yeah, sure, and thank you for coming Kathryn.

Speaker 4: All right till next time.

Speaker 5: Till next time the second Tuesday of August.

Speaker 4: Stay there you go.

Speaker 5: Sweet, alrighty.

07-04-2017

[audio]

Shooting sprees, environmentalism at point zero, daily op-eds on no confidence in govt. India choking, China becoming a desert, Siberian fires visible from space. Urban noise = bad health. The Brilliant with Bellamy (episode 50) and Abe Cabrera (episode 49): ITS losing its "luster," nihilists in retreat? Brain-eating amoebas in Louisiana. plague in New Mexico. Action news.

Speaker 1: Hey this Amy Ray and you're listening to music from around the world with Frau DJ Mandy on KWVA 88.1?

Speaker 2: Yeah, Anarchy radio is coming your way in just a minute we are going to start off with some Billie Holiday running slightly. Behind, but we will be with you shortly. You're listening to via Eugene.

Speaker 3: In my silent. You me. With Mallory In my salad tub. With me I'm sitting in my chair with this man. There's no one could be saying with gloom everywhere. I know that. No man in my solitude. I'm praying. Sand beg my love. Sit in my chair with this man. No one could. Be so sad. With blue everywhere I sit and I know that I will soon. Man in my. Solid 2

Speaker 2: Alright, and Mercury radio phone number here is 5413460645. Take it away John.

Speaker 4: Hey there we go yes we got it squared away I think. Were locked out of the whole complex, so we running slowly. Well anyway, if you're tired of saluting the flag on this 4th of July, relax with the. Enterkey radio see what we got here. Just do one thing in passing about today. Sometimes you get the Gettysburg address stuff. The Emancipation Proclamation and other. More or less patriotic things. I was noting that the Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 was the same week as the biggest mass execution in U.S. history. 38 Dakota people were hanged in Minnesota. On Lincoln's orders just a few days before. The Emancipation Proclamation. That had to do with the Santee Sioux Uprising a few months earlier, a few months. The summer of 1862. Well, I'm wearing the free radical radio shirt which I happened to run across. I've been displeased regarding its communique readings. Still am like, I presume they're still added, but maybe there's a retreat from the fascination with the. Individualists tending toward the wild and later I'll get to that. In terms of recent discussions, namely at the brilliant. So OK, Friday is G20 in Hamburg and Kathy will be here next week on the 11th. It's pretty much this not so much the news of the week, It’s almost Daily News where there's an op-ed piece, a call about the. Virtually 0 degree of public confidence in government and the political as a dimension, I would say and not just the US, but today's was founders. Wouldn't like what's happened to the US? By a moderate to guy. It's New York Times remembered, saying some same, same deal, same old stuff ain't going away. It isn't getting any better in terms of legitimation and let's see this week. We certainly had some shooting. Some mass shootings last Friday. The doctor in New York, who, when that say people shot 2 fatally, including himself and then that's. Same day or late Friday night that is in Little Rock. The nightclub shooting about 30 people injured. I think there were no fatalities. And by the way, that 24 hours or the 24 hours from, I think Friday, Thursday evening to Friday evening, late last week, cops killed four people in Colorado. I don't have the specifics, but in various parts of Colorado and. Well, let's see. There's a piece of New York Times on Friday, so you can Friday. China is turning into a desert tree. Planting campaign is. Has proven ineffective. There's always. It's only some bad news about China. And bad news in general because. Not because, but in part Stephen Hawking is only last November. He said we have 1000 years to go. We got to get off this planet because there won't be any it. Won't be livable. Well the other day. Well, actually last month he said if we have 100 years left before doomsday, we need to get off Earth long before that comes to. Pass so that's. amazing.

Speaker 2: So we're we're not going to fix things here. We're just going to go somewhere else and mess them up there.

Speaker 4: Right, right, we'll just get addled but we don't have nearly as much time as he was. As he was thinking we do oh man. And here's my favorite liberal environmental character of the week, and this where environmentalism is, and it's our local favorite, Bob Doppelt. You ever noticed him in the register guard?

Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't read that paper. Really much you're missing a lot.

Speaker 4: Well, he's a. He's a more or less a regular. I don't know if he writes every month or something like that but he's Mr Environment to Mr climate change. Global warming. And this one, which is last Thursday's climate change, is coming time to prepare. Yeah, solutions require expanded thing. I got to read this little paragraph. This really classic. And this what he has to say. I mean, he's he's been edging toward the it's too late category. Now we just have to adjust to it. You know, we're screwed. We're absolutely screwed. And so. You know, we got to prepare to be totally screwed. So he writes effective responses must therefore be ongoing, involve entire communities, focus on building and maintaining personal and collective strengths and seek to help residents use adversity to create new and better conditions for everyone. These are the keys to making wise and skillful decisions in the midst of ongoing adversity. Have you ever heard of more empty?

Speaker 2: The word that I hear tossed around a. Lot is resiliency. Right right, we're gonna have the resiliency in our community.

Speaker 4: Yeah, so we can be sustainable or something.

Speaker 2: Also, no one really wants to. What are we sustaining exactly?

Speaker 4: Well this guy's giving up the reform of the minor, pretty silly things to do. Or things to change now it's just hot air with no oxygen in it at all. That I thought that. Was worthy of a quote because it's just. Oh, and meanwhile, India's dirty years choking India's quest for clean energy. This has to do with the solar. But the air is so dirty it's just as simple as that you it's. They don't have a lot of capacity. If the if the all the particulates all the various kinds of pollution are lying across the panels. Amazing yeah. It's just they're heavily polluted. Does if there's anyone in the world that didn't know this? Yeah, and New Delhi have been there a few times so. Yeah, you can put up the panels, but while you're choking on the air, you notice that. That the old solar power from the sun doesn't get through very well. All right, well, we still have the unprecedented temperatures across the Southwest, the US SW it is. Unsorted territory they say. And drought in northern China is also record setting.

Speaker 2: Yeah, climate change is about to happen.

Speaker 4: It's about to happen. Yeah, and we've got to. Be prepared somehow. It's just so it's so bogus you wonder why they even bother, what could anyone get out of that? Could they be consoled or fronted off at this point by? You know there was one. Brand of non nonsense. And now there's just the total surrender nonsense. I guess it's maybe it's something to do with the. Oh dear, we'll get to that. We'll get to that, and the Siberian wildfires Speaking of fires everywhere, large swaths of Siberia's boreal forests. Can be seen from space. This was Friday. In the news, as Earth's boreal forest burn at unprecedented rates. But it's all good. We can. We can prepare, we just have to. Put our minds to and our shoulders to the wheel and other cliches. Meanwhile, homelessness in Los Angeles County is up 30%. Despite all their efforts and their propagandand so on. Yeah, it's all. You know when you hear one of the one of the staples of the anti primitivist? Crowd is look. There's 7 billion people to feed you. You're just talking nonsense. So all these people start well. The most obvious first thing to say is are they getting fed those 7 billion. This the UN thing from yesterday. Progress on world hunger has reversed talking about famine. In nine countries, the worst or nine countries. This from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN which. Is meeting now in Rome? So yeah, what about feeding those people is. Well, you're trying to pray for civilization, which is ruining the whole thing anyway. Our I what is Rai, do what it stands for?

Speaker 2: Recreational equipment incorporated I’m gonna guess.

Speaker 4: Wow, that's good. I yeah. I have no idea. It sounds right. Sounds right to me. This from last week. The biggest thing, the biggest seller. And this to me this speaks of isolation. Many skillets big enough to fry one egg. So what does that say about camping or?

Speaker 2: You're going it alone I.

Speaker 4: I guess you're going it alone, mini skillets. It's there's tiny little things and they’re a big seller. I don't know. I don't know what it could be, some other reason, but just the obvious one is you only got one person to.

Speaker 2: Cook for everybody wants to write a different ways.

Speaker 4: Maybe still good.

Speaker 2: You have to cook them one at a time.

Speaker 4: Lots of skillets, lots of profits. Well, in health matters, let's see once again, the news about the antibiotic resistance. They are trying to get a last resort antibiotic, but now they're now they're finding this from the Atlantic last Friday the 30th. The immunity to these different antibiotics can develop in bacteria that haven't even been exposed to that antibiotic. In other words, it's not a matter of overusing the same stuff and then it loses its it's efficacy, it's. They're finding immunity to these things where they haven't even ever tried it. You know they haven't even. Started up with. It, and along those lines Colliston is one of these last resort antibiotics. One of the final options left. They're saying that and. Anyway, it's just more on how the resistance. Could be found anywhere and can spread with frightening ease. Yeah, I just had to point that out. I've been kind. Of following that. And also in thealth news, we've got the government trying to. Come up with some Obamacare thing. Republican Obamacare, trumpcare. Whatever you call it, and. It's going nowhere, but they the last word. Over the weekend anyway, they're going to add 45 billion to get more support for it. 45 billion for states to spend on opioid addiction treatment. 45 billion. And this whoops, this shows you how how widespread this, how what a deepening deal it is. That is a big pot of money, meaning from the New York Times Saturday the 1st. But addiction specialists said it was drastically short of what would be needed.

Speaker 2: I think they should just call it. We don't care.

Speaker 4: Yeah, and billions to get nowhere. It’s deeper than that. You can. It's like how much money can we spend on the mass shootings? And could we somehow pretend that would they would stop?

Speaker 5: There's no.

Speaker 4: Whatever that would mean, there's no way anyone would even guess. What that might be? Well, see, here's some interesting noise things. Urban noise can trigger heart problems. You know, urbanism is not exactly new, but a new new study. This from the Telegraph in London, the science. They've found. Constant noise even at low level. Low levels had an immediate and disruptive effect on the patterns of heart rates. A growing body of research that shows everyday surroundings could be bad news for long term health, so that's the nature of cities I think for. Quite some time I would guess in a University of Athens, study those living near airports have more hypertension. So there's a definite link between airport noise and high blood pressure. As we try in vain to adjust to modern life, not to mention climate change well and you got your. You get your odds Gary help things too. NBC News last Friday brain eating amoebas have been detected in two water systems in Louisiana. Said the state's health department.

Speaker 2: That's enough, no rain eating amoebas.

Speaker 4: Details yeah, don't get water up your nose. That could lead to.

Speaker 2: Maybe all the lead will will kill them.

Speaker 4: Yeah my slow down yeah, feed them, feed them lead. And cases of plague in New Mexico reported today. So that's your sunny hills news. Let's see, it's 22 past the hour. I do want to get into this. It was obliquely referring to the brilliance. About ITS and how some people have really. Been more or less promoting it and publicizing it at. At the very least, and where that's at. A to be sort of a surprising change and I would say a healthy change. Well, we got some Action News coming up. Yeah, I don't. I don't think I'll maybe we'll go in after the break. Yeah, we'll start right now. And by the way, once again, as the lender has mentioned, 5413460645.

Speaker 2: Hey John, let me just sneak this in and our rush to get on the air here. If I neglected to do this so please.

Speaker 4: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand. The community at large.

Speaker 2: That's you 5413460645.

Speaker 4: Very cool man. You're on it. You're very much on it. Well, I'm going to. I'm going to start this off and just take a break. We're running since we're running slightly late. We'll just divide these into two. I'm talking about the latest two episodes from Eric Gorns, the brilliant. And I think I'll start with the most recent one rather than chronological go more recent and then the second one after that conversation with there going in, Bellamy used to be his. Partner at the podcast. He before that Bellamy was part of free radical radio. Anyway, there's really a. I think you could call. It a retreat from the. Embrace, so to speak, and I think they might not put it that way. Might not come to that strong word, but anyway. They tossed it around pretty good and came up with some new stuff. For example, Aragorn said he is not in favor of random violence and he said he had made the statement a while back. Not very long ago that he felt he had felt anyway that there that the only. Consistent critique of the ITS violence, referring to the discriminative showing people. Who happened by thing is from pacifist. Otherwise shut up. You know you don't. You don't score unless you're a pacifist and he said this time he said, well, that was before they started up with the indiscriminate violence thing about a month ago, which is laughably wrong. That's that's been in place for a long time. That doesn't cover it, man. That's just . And anyway Bellamy goes on to say that he feels that ITS is basically theology. And that. And everyone agreed with that It’s a spirituality of a sort that's near Christianity, but it macho spirituality. Anyway, that's that seemed to be what? What Abe Cabrera in episode 49 was saying in effect, and I'll get to that few minutes, but. But the main. Point of episode 50, Eric Garner and Bellamy is was talking about nihilism. They do not like the implication or more than implication in to some degree, for myself. Maybe ITS is the logic of nihilism? If you have thrown in the towel on everything and you got nothing to put forward, then why not shoot everybody it's is it somehow. Is that the? Is that the logic of it somehow? Well, anyway, they made some interesting points here. For example, Bellamy said that and this interesting, it's I think it's somewhat true. He said he claims that ITS isn't nihilist. So it can't be the logic of nihilism. If it isn't nihilism and he says he thinks it is again more theological, more sort of divine, right, righteous, very moral. Well, I think that's the tone of it. That's the flavor of it. But . It's also no hope, no, no program. More basically, I think you would say it is nihilism. They expressed that very clearly, it seems to. Me even though. You could say, I think legitimately, that it's that it's sort of dressed up in a. In a sort of spiritual garb to some. And the thing about moralism, just I'm not going to get way into this, but that's one of the things about egoism. And I think to some degree now is moralism. Moralism is bad. We can detect moralism here and there. Well, maybe this sounds dumb. But what isn't moralist? What isn't normative? What isn't about choices and values, including egoism? And that’s. I don't know if that makes it at all. And Eragon, by the way, said. Well, it might be nihilist, but I'm not a nihilist because he said for years that he is. And but suddenly now he's not. I guess ITS has fallen from favor and they know it. They. I'm not the only one who rants about it. But and it's somewhere in there and I don't. I didn't get who? Would have brought this up, although I mentioned in this episode of more than once, that's for sure. As if somebody is asking and I didn't get that anyone wasking why doesn't he? Everyone that is engaged with me on this show? And he just really got upset with that. And he said it's that would be nonsense. Use the word nonsense more than once, and Impossible more than once. Impossible to discuss with me. Partly because of my rhetorical flourish. That would which would defeat him. I mean, just I don't know what on Earth he's talking about, what? You know, by the way, Cabrera, because he's sort of seeps in here, he's called the show at least twice, maybe three times. And he's been, I would say, diffident. I mean he didn't rant and rave, and neither did I and. We I was trying to clarify things and I don't think it was. Oppressive on my part, or that I was pounding with rhetorical flourishes, whatever they might be, they didn't quite get that so. So yeah, they're so now they're not even nihilists. They're not even not only not pro, ITS but. Bellamy made a little bit of an effort to clarify because I know there are annoyed at my constant. What is nihilism? Can somebody help me with that and he was saying it's not accepting conventional wisdom, It’s saying that there is no necessary outcome to what we're doing well, I fully subscribe to those two things. What what, what is nihilism about that's just critical thinking? You know that's so. We still don't know what it is, but if they're abandoning it, maybe maybe nobody cares and I don't even know. And another I got to express my impatience with this thing too. A while back Eragon was up in Portland up here in Oregon and he. It was he gave a talk at the book Fair. I think it was the anarchist book Fair last summer. And the crowd was vehemently Antifa, very anti fascist, and they just jumped all over him. They just. Were hostile and so far, though, although he didn't say. He talked about it. He talked about his emotions about it. But he didn't. Say and he got around to saying what he said. Or what they said in response to what he said. And that came up in the conversation with Bellamy in passing. It wasn't developed, but he, he said. Ergon said Antifa can't be stopped or even criticized. And I don't know why he says that. That doesn't seem to be true at all. I mean, it may have be stopped, but it certainly can be criticized and. And we still don't know what he's critical of in terms of Antifa. I’m curious because I'm certainly critical and in important respects I would say. So there is a falling back from the fascination with ITS at the end of the show. Aragon said maybe it'd better to talk about Trump. He's more important than these few, ITS people and OK. I mean, I don't know. I don't know why they've been dwelling. On ITS. I found it repellent and I've said so but I wouldn't go anyway. Let's take a quick break and I want to get to the other episode and these folks are at a disadvantage. The brilliant is a podcast you can't call in, but this a radio show here at kW V8 and you certainly can, and you're certainly invited to go.

Speaker 2: In 5413460645 will be back after this break. All right, some Dizzy Gillespie there. From dizzy on the French Riviera with the Antônio Carlos Jobim track no more Blues.

Speaker 4: So fine, I think I sometimes save that for winter when you need the sounds of kids playing on the beach. I love that intro. Yes, from about 1960 or something. Well, the brilliant episode 49, Aragorn. With Abe Cabrerand he really. He really let it hang out. He didn't, maybe he figured he'd have a sympathetic host. And he wouldn't. He wouldn't worry about being. Clobbered, or anything? Doing what he's saying, and so he just talked and talked and everyone didn't say much for quite a while. Well, Abe, I think he. He said he lives in New Orleans. He's a Mexican extraction. He grew up speaking Spanish. He speaks Spanish. He was a Trotskyist. For a while and he. And the only trouble with the episode, it's me anyway. The his part of it, his his voice was muffled, like it was a bad phone in a tunnel or something. I didn't. I hope I didn't. I'm not going to misrepresent stuff because there were parts of it I didn't quite get. That well, they and this I don't want to invent a great big contrast and be unfair in that regard. I hope I'm not going to do that, but. What I was surprised about comparing #49 to #50 when I just talked about #50. This revealing in a lot of ways. And it and it shows. I think a fairly big difference between. The two different episodes and I don't know if there were only. A week or so apart, I'm not sure, but somewhat one following the other. Aragorn was very explicit about. Being excited about ITS very 21st century and I thought to myself, yeah, that family that's the very 21st century maybe and he really got down to something he often I don't quite get what he's saying sometimes or all the time maybe. But anyway, he said if you're. I'm these are my words, I'm paraphrasing. If you're so pessimistic then ITS starts to look good because let's face it, he said. It's likely that nothing's going to change before we die. We're we're stuck with. So why not be titillated by ITS? And I thought, OK, that’s what I was thinking. And boy, you laid it out there, alrighty. And one other thing that I really. I don't know. It didn't strike me as all that great the question of the indiscriminate killing came up and was dropped. They did not get into it. They avoided it. But Aragorn chuckled when that was mentioned. The indiscriminate killing. And then he said something about the so-called innocence. So even though they didn't get into it, that sort of seemed to me like yeah, what's wrong with that? You know, just the cynics thing like what's the? What's the problem? Wait, it's Cabrera, that's the main figure here and I want to mostly refer to what he said. He said ITS is a possible prank and this called the presses, right? Like how many are there? No idea? Is it a shifting number? Maybe it's nobody, maybe it's just a bunch of online stuff. One or more persons cranking out these communiques, and. Taking credit if you want to use the word for different things verifiable, we just don't know. No one's been caught. I mean, here's the guy he's making a living at this. No, I don't mean he's making money, I just mean it's his trade, so to speak. All I know about him is his Atassa book and. Calls about that are more or less pro, ITS and now it's maybe it's just a prank boy that had to make people look stupid. Maybe including all of us to be even talking about it, I suppose. Anyway, Erigone made an interesting point that Nietzsche's catechism of a revolutionary. Which is complete nihilism? Blind nihilism? That's this, ITS stuff in various places is pretty much verbatim. I thought he made a very a very interesting point there. Back to Abe. He said more or less. What is his? What is it that appeals to him? Why is he? Seemingly on their side because it's a group that says what it's going to do and does it. That's it, I mean, that's like deep deep green resistance and lots of DGR. People have fallen into this Maoist. The deal, which is wretched, not even to mention the trans hating part of it, but. It says what it's going to do and does it well. We don't even know that for one thing, but depends on what you're doing, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: National National Socialism said what it was going to do and then they. Did it?

Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, that’s really not to go. Not much to go on. I would say. And Evergarden came with another good point. He described a TS as violence first, not irrational or revolutionary program or ideology. It's I think that clarifies things. It's that's helpful. And another point that I think maybe the both of them made they were referring to Scott Campbell's. Much publicized critique. And one thing they said about that. I think it's quite valid. Campbell called ITS eco fascist. Well I've, I've never thought it was fascist. No more than I think, say Trump is fascist, but. The rest of it is more or less the idea that only left is like Scott Campbell. Who are not popular anymore? They've they've lost out so. So only left this are opposed to ITS ideas. Doesn't seem to be true. Doesn't seem to be true. And Cabrera kept saying you said it more than once. Anyway, people are not paying attention and part of part of that is the sound quality. I didn't know what the point of that was. People are not paying attention. They put out all these communicates. How can you miss it? It's not exactly hidden. They claim they're not out to persuade anyone, but while it communicates all that stuff. closing up with that. Abe Contra said that ideas isn't political, it's theology. In fact, that's the future of the of the class of ideas. It's really theology, and it sounds like he's still a Catholic to tell you the truth. I doubt that he is but. It's he kept going off into references to. To Christian theology, if not Catholic theology, he thinks that chaos is the future. It will be antisocial. Anyway, is this, like Malthus, the war of all against all? Well, it could be, you do wonder if is somebody still a Christian if they're down with indiscriminate violence for one thing, and complete hopelessness for another thing with the where does the Christian part come in? If he is still, maybe he isn't, I wasn't clear about that. Whether he's just talking about his past. And so he closed by saying that he's read all of black and green review and he always listens to this show as does they're going. They may be grinding their teeth. Right now, but I've tried to be fair, we've got a climate of nihilism that's, that's one thing that. You get to. You're going to have to. But how about referring to the actual world? One thing that all these fires more and more over the years. I believe this correct are deliberately set. Those are nihilism, right now. Now we're at this place where people that just want to burn down their world. You know, that’s pretty.

Speaker 2: I think there's a fine line between nihilism and apathy.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah it seems that way and they don't. I can see why they wouldn't want to cop to that or cop to maybe more often they would come to the pessimism part. But you be pessimist and not be a nihilist. You know, I’m trying to sort it out. And if this fading away along with the attraction of ITS. I'm happy to not even talk about it anymore, but I think that maybe the natalism part is still with us. Well, what I'm going to do. Well, what am I going to do here? I'm just going. To well, I'll get to some Action News. Yeah, let's just do some of that. And some of the related things that go along with the with the. And because Paul to. Interesting thing from from Spain from Catalonia specifically. About neighborhood associations, and I don't know if this. Really means they're making a comeback in this in the quest for community, but. There is this and I'm not going to go into a bunch of specifics here, but. There's some people that feel that the young especially don't feel identified with neighborhood associations, but. But they're necessary. This part of the resistance you've. Got to have. Some stuff on the ground besides ideas, and I think that’s healthy. I think that. Makes sense to me. Oh, here is a recommendation. GA Bradshaw her name is gay, Bradshaw, trans species psychologist. Among other things, she wrote elephants on the edge. What animals teach us about humanity. And the latest, her latest book is Carnivore Minds, who these fearsome animals really are and I think. Maybe just a month away or so. Black Man interview #5 will have an interview with her. This great stuff. I'm just now getting started on that I was not familiar with her work. What's her name again, gay, Bradshaw. Or G period, a period Bradshaw. I think it's pretty easy to phone her. Well, here's something interesting from Mexico's move toward more resistance type stuff. The Kay Huelga radio collective. Has come out against voting. They are against the. National Indigenous Congress, which I think was started by ZLM. I might be wrong about that, but I think it's something of a front group freeze. You know something? Like that or. Maybe that isn't right, but there there is. They're allied in their foray into electoral politics and running. Someone for president and. The Kyoga people strongly oppose that we've decided not to be participants in the legitimate legitimization of the state and institutions that caused death, war and destruction. In general, not just the current Mexican government, but in general. And from Brazil, no. There is stuff going on in Brazil. But first of all I wanted to mention. On June 3rd. Month ago, the first anarchist fair was held in Porto Alegre. And they've decided to have one. Every month, not just every year, but. That sounds encouraging as the first one was a good. Kickoff, we'll see also in Brazil the more striking news, I guess, is for example on Friday. Some amazing photos. Demonstrators blocked the main avenues of Sao Paulo, which is the biggest city. In South America, not just Brazil but. Barricades they did really come in on there hundreds of people block streets throughout the country in a general strike against the government changes. Anti labor laws and anti pension benefit changes which of course are always called reform in Russia. A few days ago. Group of animal rights activists held the first open rescue in Russian history. First, Alf thing they rescued some turkeys. I think we're going to be hearing more about that. Other Alf names. Tires slashed on trucks. At a slaughterhouse in Birmingham and Shield, smashed alive is growing in that area, they say Sweden. And so dalier, West of Stockholm. Window smashed at a fur retailer and more hunting towers destroyed and France, Italy and Germany. That's a staple. And this was just received on the 1st on Saturday, July 1st. But it happened back on June 24th. Kiev, Ukraine and you can set 2 excavators on fire. Heavy equipment and these are earth moving machines. Which for months were destroying nature? Bare building on the side of a. Fish Farm big Industrial fish farm thing. They torched torched them up real good. Yeah, they're well. It's in part roads. In this part of the Ukraine. And surrounding stuff heavily damaged by these dump trucks and. So they have found that excavators burn very well. And there is at Heathrow. An ongoing Protest camp against the third runway. They were given two weeks to get out. It's they got about a week left hope to follow up on that because they have been holding their ground. And in Toronto, the Parkdale neighbourhood of Toronto. A group called Parkdale organize. Has been successful in terms of rent strikes, a growing thing, spreading ongoing thing, anti landlord activity there. And this came in on yesterday the third. They've been, it's been action in Exarchia Square in Athens. That very cool inner center. Well, the dopers have been moving in. Mafia type gangs running dope out of there. Three young anarchists were stabbed by drug traffickers. In March, there's been a climate of violence and anarchist militant shut down one of these mafioso with a Kalashnikov, so they're battling the drug gangs there. And here's nature strikes back. This a nice one from Angela Chan writing for The Verge. Pods of killer whales are stocking the boats of Alaska fishermen stealing their halibut. Catches seems to be getting worse. And tail the boats all around Alaska. And just steal those fish just to yeah, leaving them in with no fish and thousands of gallons of fuel wasted trying to flee if they're being chased by the whales by the orca. Well, let's see. We got more stuff, but let's go out. I was talking. Were talking about this a little while ago. Derrick's third Symphony. This the. Last movement we get. Get a bunch of this in like maybe 9 minutes of it here. If you could start at 46 seconds in OK, yeah, this. The soprano part here is just exquisite. There's a big piece. About a month ago in the New York Times, this the 25th anniversary of the record, the 40th anniversary of the composition. By Henryk Gorecki, and it's just piercingly sad, and yet it's been very popular as classical Symphony music goes, and I just I found it just very moving, so we'll go out with that and. Catherine will join legend me next week so please come back. Join us next week. Whoops, whoops, whoops. You didn't put it in there already.

Speaker 5: No no no no.

Speaker 4: Oh man, all that run up and. Whoops, an empty case. Oh dear, oh boy. That happens, I do that on a somewhat regular basis actually, but. OK well. You can just sit there with painted breasts waiting until next week maybe. And I'll come back to that. If you happen to go for it during the week you will just be. Very captivated and I think the third movement is the real. The real stuff there. Meanwhile, I've been hearing about reading about bionic leaves, bionic trees, and synthetic DNA. That's our future. Yeah, separate stories won't go into it too much. The. The fake trees. The synthetic trees. This a story from BBC in London and the column they called city Trees. They're just metal tubing, but they put these this Moss around them and they supposedly. Well, there's still a victory, but there's supposedly. It cut down on the pollution which is so terrible and. In London so.

Speaker 2: How is that better than actual tree?

Speaker 4: You had to ask that question. It sounds stupid. It's it sounds nutty. It's just another wacko techno deal. Instead of tackling the problem. Yeah, it's it doesn't seem to fly. And University of Florida research. They are on the verge, or maybe they've already achieved this, triggering the process of photosynthesis in a synthetic material. A bionic leaf. And this too will is bound to solve our climate and energy problems. Both artificial leaf technology.

Speaker 2: Oh boy, or maybe not cut down the rainforest.

Speaker 4: Oh no, wait a minute. There you're talking nonsense. Yeah, and one other tech thing. This from the current Harvard magazine probing psychosis. It's about schizophrenia. The punchline of it is. All this stuff about hunting down the DNA, the track the trail would commit into DNA. Genes have an awful lot to say about understanding schizophrenia. This the lead into the article. You know it's hidden in our genomes supposedly, and then at the end of the article. It says we don't have a clue. We're not. We're not getting anywhere with this and It’s an amazing article. Yeah, and once again these things are far more complex and even complex is a clumsy word to use, I think. It's just much more past these reductive models you can't. You can put this on a blackboard and go a = b and it right it goes to Z and so therefore you get schizophrenia. They get nothing they. Yeah, the whole this a big long article and then it gets to saying we.

Speaker 2: The punch line is they don't know.

Speaker 4: They don't know. We are nowhere regarding under, understanding schizophrenia, all that tech and. What do ?

Speaker 2: But they got their research grants.

Speaker 4: Oh sure.

Speaker 2: Probably corporate money as well.

Speaker 4: I wouldn't doubt it.

Speaker 2: Maybe some new drugs will be developed?

Speaker 4: Yeah, and we'll make progress. If we like, we've never made progress before. Well, now we can say it so Chris can. Cite a lot in here, so please don't legend me and Catherine next week and maybe Henryk Gorecki too.

Speaker 2: We have some Chet Baker to go. Out with.

Speaker 4: Cool, very cool.

Speaker 2: All right, see you folks next week.

Speaker 5: I make a day for God. And you think that your life will bring? I try to give a party and the guy upstairs complain. I guess I'll go through life just catching colds and missing trains, everything. Happens to me, me. I never miss a thing. I've had the measles and the mumps. And when I play this, my partner always tries. I guess I'm just a few. Who never looks before he jumps? Crazy happens to me. At first my heart thought. You could break this change for me. That love would turn the trick to end this fell, but now I just can't fool his heart but thinks for me I've mortgaged my. Draft and fall and sudden air miles special too. Your answer was, but why? And there was even postage to. I fell in love just once and then it had to be with you. Everything happens to me.

06-27-2017

[audio]

Cops kill more blacks, dope epidemic rages, lethal heat waves e.g. in Southwest (street signs melt, jets can't lift off, AC fails, homeless die). My ten days in Italy. Lake Chad almost gone, democracy in death throes? Nihilism leads to ITS fetish? 2/3 of all traffic deaths due to road rage. Cars, homes are traps for toxic air. Completely baseless tech claims. Girl Scouts to become cyber cops. Binky: the app that does nothing. One call.

UNKNOWN: KWPN KWB a GKW. WKWBA, Eugene OR.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 2: Who you're listening to KVA Eugene. Anarchy Radio is going to be coming right in just a minute and my name is Gray. I'm here assisting. Happy to be here. And as always, here's some music to start the show.

Speaker 3: It's just. When I was just a man, I went around explaining things that I didn't understand I got myself in trouble. My supply I had known to man I was just a man that I was just a man. But I wanted to stay. Told me that. Let you set up camp for my left. I don't want you to try to put your life in my hands. Whatever you. Mind your step, the land masses whenever it starts to turn as you get up. When you don't wanna die. Guess that's the one I could never.

Speaker 4: Hello, I'm very glad to be back. Two engineers in here tonight. Mr Carl and Mr Elijah Gray, who will be covering for Carl the next two weeks. Well, it seems like I've been away from the microphone for a long time. I sort of have relatively. I mean, it's after 16 years I've. And you rarely missed. Of course, it was the. Italy trip And then last week we celebrated the daughter Monica's 50th birthday over at the Central Coast of Oregon. That was very great, that was. It was Tuesday the 20th. The show on the 6th were talking about this just a minute ago with Keith and Iand Cliff. And that was really enjoyable. Very lively, lots of insights for calls, I think just to happen an hour and I'm very grateful that they jumped in. All three of them made it happen. Check it out if you haven't heard. It's archived at my website, johnsersen.net, among other places. Yeah, we're having a good show. Well, let's see. I got a bunch of stuff and I'll try to connect the dots here somehow. It's summer time and one thing that never changes and it didn't start happening with Trump either. But cops murdering people of color. With no consequences. Minnesota, Ohio, Illinois recently. Yeah, and of course the big global overheating story. Still happening in the southwest, the What they call the Phoenix epic heat wave. Been going on a good week now. Friend of the program. Daniel, thank you. Daniel sent a photo letters on the street signs are melting. Yeah, white paint dripping on down from the street signs. This the 2900. Block of North Thomas, in particular. The air is too hot to lift some jets. The air conditioning failing homeless are dying. Fires in seven states. Yeah, and this it's not just the southwest of North America. Quite a big story about Asias the Scorchers multiple and Asia Mercury records fall and climate concern rises. Going back to the end of May. May 28th, in particular the Mercury claim to 129.2 degrees. Probably the hottest temperature ever recorded in Asia. They're not exactly sure, because in some places it's they have a regular access to. The electrical. Shorting with that thing. Yeah, anyway, and man, there's a lot of stories if you want to read the story about two months for takeoff. This news to me that a certain temperature. They can't get off the ground. Some of The Jets. That was in the New York Times last Wednesday the 21st. And according to the journal Nature Climate change. Lethal heat, deadly heat, of course is. On the rise. Currently, 30% of the world's population exposed to deadly heat. For 20 days per year or more anyway just to marry. Terrible news and in terms of the projections? Well, we're over here at 541-346-0645. I got a few things a little later that might provoke calls. Actually, they rarely do, and I'm thinking. Well, I've bugged certain quarters enough, they may just. Pick up the phone, but anyway, I think I'm going to just start up here a little bit with the Italy trip. Which is mainly made possible. By a group in Florence and this was. This actually a philosophy festival. That's what it was called and it was pitched toward high school kids basically, although. Maybe 1/4 of the people attending weren't high school kids, but it was. It was at the Puccini Theatre, which was built by Mussolini to give the working classes some culture to give them something to keep them up a little bit. Big old theater. And that was great. It was that was in the morning on the 5th June 5th. Monday the 5th that kicked off. They had a number of really interesting speakers and then the afternoon was more. Much more given over to conversations with the certain kids. Well, yeah and just the whole thing. I just got to say it was really encouraging. And it contrasts to, they would say it's course. It's hard to compare, different cultures and histories and so on. Things are at a low damn ebb around here. They really are. And by the way, black and green review #5 is in the works. It will be out this summer. Not exactly sure when but. One thing we're working on is an editorial talking about. More or less the sorry state of the anarchist milieu or scene or movement, or whatever you call it. But the but Italy and I don't want to take too much time on this, but it was. It was really fun from start to finish and the turnouts were surprising to the hosts in the different places. A little more than they expected, because, well, for one thing, let me just back background this a little bit. I was told by a few people that after Genoa G8, Genoa in the summer of 2001. There was a lot of interest in green anarchy anarcho primitivist ideas. It was very. Big for a while. And then that tapered off. And a lot of things tapered off after 9:11. That's but. The vacuum, so to speak, was filled by other things, including more revival of certain leftist. But anyway, I flew into Bolognand was met by Enrico Manicani, who wrote free from civilization, which is still. And the original is an Italian, but it's available in English the really one and only A-Z book. Big Fat book on the permit of his point of view. It's very very complete. It's very thorough and it's very readable to it's very accessible. So after so, first of all was the event in Florence and then. Then I got to go outside of Florence to Mondaiji. Which is an amazing squat group of almost 2020 somethings. Took over and abandoned 400 acres in the Tuscan hills. The beginning of the Chianti grape area. By the way, it was it had been abandoned and for the past three years they've been bringing it back. They've got 9000 olive trees, for example, lots of. Lots of grapes. And they do all kinds of stuff there. It's just huge. They really put in the work. And they've they are not recognized by Florence, the regional authority of Florence of the City of Florence bought this property in the 60s after it had been abandoned, and a very tiny part of it is a park. But nobody doing anything there. So these folks discovered this and then moved in and. And three years in, they've got a great thing going on and. It was for me a beautiful rest, but I got to spend a couple of days. There on and off and. Very quiet, incredible views on all sides. It's up on. A big hill. Very great people so, but after that there was And they could go on and on about the fun up there looking for herbs up in the hills. With some of those communards, and.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 4: Went over to Livorno after that in the middle of the week to meet with Matteo Natalis. Matteo is 2 mateos of the picture and Walter is also a publisher medalist. As you may know is the anarchist publisher in Torino. And we that was an interesting evening, went driving around, up, up in the hills somewhere near Siena. And were just like driving all. Night and we found this Hot Springs, and we slept in a cave. So that one of the perennial questions is, well, you talk about primitivism and the anti tech and stuff. So how do you live you? You probably just live this modern life. And everything which is absolutely true nailed me on that, but I have I said well, two nights ago the three of us slipped in a cave fitting the stereotype in a funny way. But it was true. And then went down to. Rome and this was a little bit of a. A little deja vu or a little bit of reunion. I was at the university. Of Rome 15 years ago. Pretty much exact. Almost the only other time I was there in Rome, but so if you go to the same place more than once, you can gauge the difference. I mean what? What is it like now as compared to before? And it was great. It was a. It was a nice turnout and I got a boast about this. I can't. That can't avoid it. There was a guy from Denmark that flew from Denmark for this event. And he was going back to Denmark the next day, and so that was thrilling many. Went to that trouble to do that. Yeah, then we drove all the way back. It's like a 7 hour drive from Rome all the way up to Turin the north northwest corner of Italy. In fact, a little ways past. And very close to Turin to Reno is the Alps. I mean you start climbing right away, you're in the foothills of the Alps. It's like 20 miles from the city of Turin. Where Nietzsche had his famous breakdown. And went to this. It's referred to as a village, but it was just some stone houses that you had to walk into. You couldn't drive there, but. More abandoned type stuff. These these buildings were taken over by. Various urban refugees, including my friend Matteo Nautilus, Matteo. So we had a great evening there. Slept there. And we then there was a talk in the nearby. Town of Torey Valpolicella which is north of Turin. Also it's close to this little. Sort of hamlet of buildings. And that was cool. It was. It was a former Workers Association Hall started in the 1850s. I think and. Taken over by this by the town, and it's just available for public events and so forth. And that was really good. That was very lively. It was very hot, but it was very cool and that very evening. Thanks once again to my friend Matteo. We took off and drove. North of Milan into Switzerland into Lugano, which is just across the border, is about of I don't know four or five hour drive. To meet Marco camenisch. Which is a great big honor for me, he. Spent 27 1/2 years in Swiss and Italian prisons. He was only released like two months ago or something like that. He came down for from Zurich. And we met in a friend's house and spent the night there. And it was. It was amazing. He's he's in wonderful shape, just full of life he's been through so much and. It was the thrill to meet him. We got there on midnight and. We embraced it. I swear I don't know. I think he felt somewhat the same way like were old pals like we'd. Known each other. For a long time, even though we'd only corresponded. Pretty consistently over the past few years, but. Well, I've past several years, but. So that was really good. And then the last event came down back into Italy to. The only big the only city in Italy I understand, which has a lot of suburbs, which is a big sprawling place is Milan. It's the big city. Rome is the political capital and the tourist place and the Vaticand all that. But Milan is the big. Is the big hub of a lot of things fashion commerce so forth it has a lot of towns around it. We made an app park and this particular deal was mostly. Young anarchist And another real hot one. But it was went on into the evening and it's a picnic affair and quite a lot of people showed up there. Saronno, which is really a part of Milan. And if you go to Nautilus, there's you can see in Italy, in Italian, by the way, a write up of this announcement. Of this little tour. And then flew out of there. Malpensairport was met by some people that. Came all the way up to. For the send off, which is just really nice, it was such great people. People going after it and. Ups and downs. Like everywhere these days, but. It just felt good. They're very healthy, lots of different projects and. Things going on so. Yeah, I don't want to go too long there. Well, let's see what else. Here's here's. Can't help but put in the contrast. As they sometimes do free radical radio is back on the air. With their podcast ride ride company and they are what they mainly do is you may know they read. There are different readings, commentaries on favorite books, and so forth. And they also they haven't stopped doing this. They're full into it. They there's another person there. Part of the project who's reading the ITS communicates the individual is tending toward the wild. And just doing the audiobook a thing like that so. I’ve expressed my big annoyance about that like so, now you're the mouthpiece for ITS these sociopaths who glory and murdering people like the two hikers. They gunned down. Or that's what they say anyway, I'm not so sure that this whole thing isn't somewhat manufactured. I don't know. It could be wrong anyway. So I made contact I addressed it to rydra because I know him. He's a friend and I said mainly, what do what, what? How do you justify this? Since I just can't. I don't even. I have no idea why you would be doing this. So I got a. I got a response. It was from somebody else who's he said it isn't right, right? Not that it matters. I mean that's the point is the. Same, it's the program. It's their choice, their decision. And went back and forth. This just the past day or so and I said, I said, I can't divulge this because I said probably going to bring this up on the air tomorrow night. And is that OK with you? And no, it isn't. So to me, they're doing this lousy thing and they don't have the guts to back it up and the back and forth wasn't especially nasty. It was just. Well, I guess I can't say what the justification and I don't know why that's sealed. The information or something. But I guess I can't say anything more about it. Anyway, that's. I ain't happy about that and I'm really appalled that some people seem to get off on this. ITS stuff is. Is that where nihilism goes? Is that just an aberration, or is that the logic of it? Or you tell? Invited this guy to call, but since he wouldn't let me say anything about our conversations then I doubt if you will. But maybe somebody else will. Maybe somebody will say, well, it's quite absurd to label. If you have, if you think there's some affinity with ITS that means all nihilists are that way. I'm not saying that I'm, I'm wondering as I've always wondered about what nihilism is supposed to be. And yeah, there's that’s still there. I mean, that's gets a lot of attention from anarchist media. And one other thing that does get a lot of attention, perhaps even more right now, is the Antifa thing. Everybody's well about Antifa, anti fascism. Trump is a fascist world. Fascism is on the rise. You know that familiar refrain and so everybody drops everything and is now. Antifa, including. As I think I've already said, including Earth first. In other words, pretty much everyone now is all. This leftist obsessing with the I think it's somewhat imaginary rise of fascism. If what happened in France, the elections a month ago or so. The fairly mediocre centrist Macron. Trounce the right wing Le Pen right and so. Well, we can go into cases, but so where is the big fascist rise? I'm not saying we should overlook it. Not at all I have. I've said publicly for years. What those people deserve. And what I support them getting. But it's another thing to make a total ideology out of it and. And create this whole thing which blocks out the rest. It does block out the rest. But there’s a lot more important stuff going on in my view. Anyway, I'm going to. I was pleasantly surprised that the new Earth First journal printed my letter. On the subject, I thought they there would be obvious reasons why they wouldn't and I'm going to read it. Deer blanked for Brains as their letters come has come. Think what would still remain if the loathsome Trump and his quote fascism did not exist? Man society homogenizing antIndigenous globalization. The technology juggernaut that deforms and isolates industrialism that destroys life from the planet civilization domestication that drives it all. The mass shootings, drug epidemics, chronic ill health, et cetera, et cetera. Obviously we must stand against the ugliness of today, the racist antisemitic misogyny, its blank that is present. But does the latter really constitute the fascist movement that we should define ourselves by the Spring Journal announces? A quote general agreement that Earthfirst is at its heart anti fascist movement. It's easy, it's cheap, it's superficial, it's great when Nazis get knocked out, but is that radical? Are we not opposed to the principles of government and civilization itself? Antifa seems always to block out of the picture. What is primary? What is radical? Thus it is limited and limiting, really. A posture for liberals to feel all militant and courageous. A serious step back for a journal that calls itself Earth first. Yes, and they printed it so. All right, what I think now I can sneak this in before the break. There's something there's well, there's a lot more basic going on in the what might be called late cap, late civilization, and some of this getting more more and more clear. In fact, Speaking of the French election, the Macrone victory. It was a record low turn out. A record low tournament, and so you get books like this. A brand new one by someone named Edward Loose. The retreat of Western liberalism and he's saying we're closer to collapse than we may wish to believe in terms of the whole political deal that enlightenment itself is in decline. The democracy is no longer seen as inevitable. Lots of lots of parts of this, but basically does anybody believe in democracy anymore? Is it just fading away? To a point where it becomes a legitimate and does go away. There's a lot of a lot of reviews on this. How democracy is defeating itself is 1 review in the New York Times. Yeah, I don't want to go on and on, but there's another Thomas Friedman Wednesday. Last Wednesday the 21st. Come where did we? The people go and it's in very similar terms really. That where the foundations of. Democracy and even society. Are. Eroding away in terms of trust in terms of the concept of truth. And we have a crisis of authority itself. He's he's quoting. People on that. Moral authority, where is it going? And this way deeper than Trump or any other politician. That and they're ugly. I'm not saying there's nothing to that. I'm not saying that all, but. You know, look at the more fundamental stuff that's going on. Look at consider what's driving it. Where are we really going? And of course, the question again, what is the anarchist thing doing? That's really not impressive. Adam Prince said, well, let's see. We got to what do we have for the break, Elijah?

Speaker 2: We have Richard Twardzik. He's just saying that right Richard Twardzik track called Albuquerque Social Swim and we started off musically with anarchy.

Speaker 4: I think so.

Speaker 2: Radio darlings car crash Lander. I neglected to mention that so we will be back shortly after a little bit of music from Richard Twardzik. Music there from Richard toward Twardzik.

Speaker 4: Dead of heroin overdose at 22. Quite a genius. I think of the piano. Yeah, which reminds us. Of course the dope epidemic rages on. That isn't letting up any more than. They're the multiple shootings, that sort of thing. Well, yeah, the something is tattering in lots of ways and some things are just plain funny from the old tech area. Some not, not much but. This something CBS News last Thursday. Just check this out. 2/3 of all traffic deaths are due to road rage incidents 2/3. I'm amazed by that. And the number of road rage deaths is up 60% since 2011. That's not that long ago. And a little bit. I suppose they're different health things here. I don't know how organized I am, but anyway, weekend Wall Street Journal. Talks about a new. Disease of sedentism. I would have to say that's what this. I've never heard of this. Something like 12% of people in the US have non-alcoholic steatohepatitis. Never heard of that Elijah.

Speaker 2: I have not.

Speaker 4: It's a fatty liver disease related to diabetes, obesity, and so on. 12%. Yeah, I this unmistakably. Associated with the more and more.

Speaker 2: Something to do with a non-stop. Sitting and snacking.

Speaker 4: I think so. I think so. And just today this NPR. I guess it was. Today that I. Heard a big story on pet obesity. So if you're fat and hurt on the old couch, your pet, your dog or whatever is going to be. And in sad shape, too prone to all kinds of diseases, some of which, like the steatohepatitis I've never even heard of. Yeah, it's a pretty scene. It's looking good. But if we go back a little I’m. Turned on by this and this goes back to June 8th. You may notice this they keep pushing stuff back. It's it gets more and more interesting to me discovering Morocco. Dates, the oldest known fossils of Homo sapiens. That's us modern humans at 300,000 years ago. You know, wasn't that long ago. It was like 50,060 thousand. Then it went up to around 200,000 years ago. That people like us first were around. I think it was there was one. 195,000. Years ago Well, that was that was another part of Africactually because. Morocco is northwest Africa. It's not sub-saharan. It's not the Olduvai Gorge, the usual. The original Homo sapiens or non homo sapiens but homeo species anyway. Yeah, this a mind blower and we keep it. You know further and further back we get to this place. It links up with the finding of Thomas Wynn and others that assert that. That homeo species 1,000,000 years ago had an intelligence equal to ours. Although that is hard to. It's hard to translate because we measure that in terms of manipulating symbols in a fully symbolic culture, well that it was not a symbolic culture back then, so but what they based this on? If you haven't heard this before, is a PRG? Exactly a thought experience, but experiment, but taking stone tools. And teasing out the different stages and conceptions and. Modeling and angles and everything else to turn a rock into a stone tool. Of the Acheulian handaxe variety, for example, which incredibly sharp fitted to your hand, there's a place for your thumb I. Mean it's you could chip away in a rock forever. You'd never get that if you didn't know what. You were doing anyway. We're getting back. We're getting way back and to me this just linked. I find it fascinating in terms of the whole question of the symbolic. Which I talked about in Florence a little bit. Back on June 5th. The question of why people started becoming symbolic? Where do symbols come from? Why do people? Represent the world that is presented to them. You know the whole the whole thing of time, language, number, art, so forth, which is very recent. It's way earlier than 300,000 years ago. For example, in light of this. This new finding. So it really undoes a lot of the assumption. You know people were capable of doing all kinds of stuff a long time ago, but they weren't symbolic. And that’s amazing it. Just we are nothing but symbolic. We communicate by exchanging symbols. We measure IQ by how good we are at manipulating symbols. Words and numbers. Anyway, I think this just opening up things even more and this was from the journal Nature if you go. Back to fairly early June, you can get the journal article. And this well established. I don't think there's any doubt because they have. Burned Flint blades. Date from the same time where people were cooking. With fire and. And just the fossil evidence itself directly, the physical evidence. Yeah, the skulls are the same and so. Hello hello sapiens of course the whole taxonomy is arbitrary. These these different. Distinctions that can all. Be reinterpreted or dumped or whatever, as some of these assumptions are shown to be nothing but. Nothing but the arrogance of civilized people that are projecting things and ruling out certain things because people weren't symbolic. Well, another thing in Africa Lake Chad is alarming. This just the latest on this from the New Republic, by the way. June 20th as Lake Chad vanishes 7,000,000. Or on the brink of starvation in 1963. Lake Chad spanned about 10,000 square miles, roughly the size of Maryland. And now due to climate change, it's shrunk by 90%. The wetlands are sand dunes. Yeah, that's the long and the short of that. Meanwhile, 1/4 of England's rivers are at risk of running dry. The data obtained by the worldwide World Wildlife Federation, very drastic. Thing and this you could file under no escape from industrialism, it seems. A startling piece from the June 12th Guardian, the London paper. Air pollution more. Harmful to children in cars than being outside. Than outside of cars. In other words, if you’re in the traffic. And the kids are in the back seat. It's just a big old tank for collecting fumes. Yeah, your children are sitting in a box collecting toxic gases from all the vehicles around you. And then I get. To roll up the windows because the air intake is gets where it's getting the. The polluted air the government is being actually legally sued because they are failing to tackle the overall. Air pollution levels of air pollution. Jason sent me this a while ago. A story about radon. Radon gas is the #2 cause of lung cancer because people live. Sedentary lives and closed up homes closed up. Cars closed up homes. Yeah, so once again we get the nice contrast. If it's a mobile hunter gatherer. And a gold standard, if you'll pardon the expression. And these levels are going up. Right on it's found. Naturally it's found in nature. Yeah, smoking cigarettes is the number one cause of lung cancer. Chris Ward Churchill believes It’s just a coincidence. It's not about smoking cigarettes. It's about plutonium in the air. He argues that it became a big deal about the time of in the 40s when they started the. Enriching uranium to get plutonium for weapons. For next anyway. And I guess that's pretty darn scary. So you're just sitting there eating those snacks. Getting fat. That's so dear. You can't escape. And more on the electromagnetic fields that pulse radiofrequency radiation. Well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sort it out, but more on that. About childhood development. Neuro developmentally challenged children. Something that wasn't widespread in former generations, whereas the magnetic field radiation. Certainly is widespread. Now it's just a quite a laundry list of disabilities, palsy, autism, seizures. Hearing loss. Not to mention carcinoma. I guess this 2017. Stuff that you could go to bio initiative 2012 website. It's not. This doesn't date from 2012, but it's the current website. If you want to look this up bio initiative 2012.

Speaker 2: Are you talking about cell phone transmissions? Things with things? When you say magnetic fields?

Speaker 4: Not just that. But I think that's. I think that's the the spear point on this. Have you got anything new on?

Speaker 2: That no, I mean, I've heard of it and people are supposedly developing allergies to it. Have to move to zones where there's no cell phone coverage and.

Speaker 4: Phillis Glendenning went to South America because of that because the South tower virtually in our backyard. This. It's wireless technology in general, and I think that’s only what we're discussing. Some of the aspects of it. How you? In the forest field of it.

Speaker 2: There's a letter to the editor in the weekly this week where someone's talking about the. The city of Eugene is going to be introducing some new. I can't remember what it was exactly, but something to monitor more. It's going to put more microwave transmissions into the environment if this happens.

Speaker 4: Well, it's up for grabs. Whether they're going to allow it.

Speaker 2: I believe so.

Speaker 4: I missed that. Well, we got to have the we got to have the radiation. You know we're going to have the wireless. That's for darn sure. I love this ad, another whopper of a full page ad. Magazine ad Microsoft cloud. What if technology could help stop the next epidemic before it happens? Yeah, that would be nice. We're awash in epidemics, yellow fever, Zika. Eboland they’re thinking. Yeah, let's fantasize about the stopping one that before it starts. What about the ones that are here that are get seem to be getting worse? You think, well, that's easy to knock down with all this technology that can't be these. These horrible epidemics but. Of course there are. And another one full page IBM ad picture of a worker. blue collar guy. I can be in 30 million places at once, he says with. With IBM Cloud and Watson, I OT engineers can use I OT data to predict issues before they. Help helping keep anything running smoothly. Yeah, issues again issues before they happen is if there's nothing happening now. And there's nothing that's not running smoothly now, but in the future, just a perfect example of the claims and promises of technology. It's just they just make these scenarios. And every media. Print, Radio, TV, etcetera. I mean you're just. With this nonsense, it's just crazy. I mean, do you think this stop and think for a second about it? That does make sense. Oh man, I just don't want to go on and on with hideous stuff, but I got to mention a couple of things are chronic wasting disease. I noticed that a while back it's spreading among deer and elk documented in 24 states now and it's a prion protein that's the cause like mad cow disease. And these deer and elk in the wild. They turn into zombies. They stumble around, they drool, and then they drop dead. Well, we're in the zombie culture, but. Doesn't seem quite fair. And Speaking of the glories of technology, this past winter, the flu vaccine, even though it was well matched to the flu virus that was the main cause of flu. Often it isn't, they're just guessing they. It turns out the flu vaccine isn't. Isn't targeted on the on the on the virus in practice? Well it was well matched and only 42% effective in preventing serious symptoms or meaning doctor visits. That's not even half, and that's another big boast. You know for vaccines. I love this. This from. Oh, it's from the Atlantic website, I believe.

Speaker 2: On this show, perhaps, but refresh my memory.

Speaker 4: I don't know if I hope I didn't mention before. If I have, my memory is really short. It's a new. It's an app that does everything it's got, posts, it's got likes, it's got comments, it's scrolling timeline.

UNKNOWN: Blah blah blah.

Speaker 4: There's just one catch. None of it is real, as if any of that other stuff is real anyway. BinkIs a ruse, a Potemkin village social network with nothing with no people where all the content is fake and feedback disappears into the void. It doesn't go to anyone. And it might be exactly the thing that smartphone users want and even need.

Speaker 2: There, there's a delicious irony there.

Speaker 4: Now you need an app that does nothing you mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like as you say, but what does any of it really do anyway, so?

Speaker 4: Right, yeah, but it's gotta go through technology one way or another. The answer is always technology.

Speaker 2: Like meta metabstraction.

Speaker 4: Yeah, like Baudrillard, there's no. Nothing has a reference point, it's just a copy of a copy of a copy or something. You know the way he was saying it's reality is. Ain't no reality, it's just we're we're untethered from stuff. I think he's he sounds like he's. Making more sense to me all the time. And maybe it's the ultimate nihilism. You go to this app even though it's just a void. Or whenever you call. But it's all working pretty good. I could every week I could give a list of recalls I just mentioned one. This from last Friday, Britax child safety. They make car seats. For the for the kidneys. They're recalling over 207,000. Because part of the clip can break and cause a choking hazard, well, the child is still in place, but it's been choked to death by the by the safety seat.

Speaker 2: And they're turned around backwards, so you wouldn't know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, won't be bothered I guess yeah. Oh geez, Wall Street Journal. Over the weekend, let's see. Is it this weekend? I think it's not this. Weekend, but anyway. This just a. This just a trope. It's a, but a truism I. Something that you already know. Does Facebook make us happy? Does sorry does make? Does Facebook make us unhappy and unhealthy? According to the American Journal of Epidemiology. Yes, it turns out the more times you click like the worse you feel the more isolated. Because there aren't real friendships or real interactions. Let's reach for that app.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you just go to Binky and.

Speaker 4: Thank you yes, hey.

Speaker 2: And like your pretend friends that don't really exist.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I hear you indeed. Oh yeah. Banality, that's the word I was looking. This a registered guard. While I was gone, let's see when is the date June 4th? A lovely story about a woman. Olivia Binder binder And her. And her young daughter. And yeah, the adventures they have hiking. No mother and son. She's on a quest to visit 50 waterfalls in the northwest anyway, the the punch line is. She was depressed. She was miserable. She was lonely and the tech didn't work. The counseling didn't work, but. What really worked is, as she says, we see far too many babies and toddlers who are being entertained by their parents, cell phones and iPads. 40% of kids by the age of 2 going to a recent study adept at using their parents cell phones. I meant rather, a baby. Explore the trails rather than explore the Internet. We'll put. I think we might have a call we have. A little time.

Speaker 3: So we can hit that.

Speaker 4: Oh, there we go.

Speaker 1: Yeah I heard some hissing.

Speaker 4: There we go. Yeah, got it. Yeah thanks.

Speaker 1: I just wanted to comment on that app.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 1: It's called a banking.

Speaker 4: Right?

Speaker 1: A Binky is a pacifier for babies.

Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. That's why it seemed familiar. Yeah, that's the word for the. You put like the.

Speaker 1: Hilarious, so you talk about meta meta.

Speaker 4: All right? Yes indeed you book.

Speaker 1: OK, I just thought I'd mention that to you from the e-mail and I of course know all these things.

Speaker 4: Very good. You do well. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1: All right, bye.

Speaker 4: Bye bye so you pop the app into your mouth like a. Like an actual Binky. Yeah, very good we got. We got listeners around the ball here. Well, here's. We won't lot of time we going to make. Room for Mr Chris pretty soon. Here's a new book. a mind blower to me. Anyway, ethnography and virtual worlds, a handbook of method. This the ethnography. Well, as the title says of virtual reality and they're treating this as. As you would do field work among different people. Whoa, it's. Oh, it's hard. To wrap one's brain around that. Seems to me and it's utterly seriously, how? What do we choose to record and what? How it shapes our ethnographic models and blah blah blah except. Except it's not real. It's like it's like Binky. It's the yeah online culture. It's not actual culture, I mean, well, it's it is the culture, but there are no. People there. So how do you do ethnography when? It's just you get the point, it's. It is pretty crazy, I think. Yeah, ethnography and virtual worlds. Four different authors. From Princeton University Press came out in 2012, so yeah, they. They've been doing. This ethnographic work in the virtual. Known space for a little while now anyway, but Ray for the hot Black Coffee Cafe in Toronto for declining to offer Wi-Fi. There's another piece about this. Yeah, this the June 12th New York Times about other cafes and so forth. Including seven of the eight New York City locations of Cafe Grumpy, I like that grumpy grumpy. Yeah, they yeah, take don't to. They're trying to contribute to better health and real interaction, real human interaction. It's about creating a social vibe. Said one hot black guy were a vehicle for human interaction. Otherwise it's just a commodity. You're just peddling caffeine, otherwise very good. But there's always the plus is always swatted out by the minus I'm afraid. Well, not exactly. Let's go back and forth for another minute. Or two. And oh, who sent this to me? I'd like to say thanks, but I forgot. And Jason anyway, armed with the needle and thread, US Girl Scouts who mastered the required skills can attach to their uniforms sash the first of 18 cyber security badges. That will be rolled out next year. So yeah, they can be. They can be your government, cyber snoops, there they will be the cops. Answering the cyber threats and they'll get a badge. Just the idea, maybe it was the original idea. It wasn't the Boy Scouts a Nazi sort of idea in. The first place. Be prepared right? Maybe the Girl Scouts will save us from all hacking or something. I have no idea. They're probably better around than I. Am it's Carl well knows, but we go swing the other way. Vintage typewriters game fans. Shipping story last Friday. Well, 10 days ago Friday I mean 1011 days ago from today, June 16 typewriter enthusiasts gathered at an Albuquerque restaurant. Anyway, they it leads into a whole thing about the once ubiquitous machines are coming out of the attics as resurgence spreads. like vinyl I guess.

Speaker 2: Vinyl never died. No good.

Speaker 4: Yeah, vintage typewriters. They have these big gatherings in public places. People try out all these different old machines. They were old. I mean that's even electric. Typewriters disappeared 20-30 years ago. I had one and I couldn't get it fixed because they looked at me like what is this? A buggy or buggy whip or something. Anyway, there is a review of that. It's the anniversary 20th anniversary of Radiohead's album. OK computer. Here and they review theadline is they had it right, and that's bad. In other words, Radiohead, they saw the tech alienation arriving. Well late 90s. I mean it's but yeah, along with the environmental destruction that accompanies that. Yeah, Radiohead. You know I was in Londonce actually in coming up out of the tube. In I think it was Bethnal Green, some stop in the east side. And there were these guys blocking the entrances. Big beefy. Sort of biker looking types. They look pretty. And I thought what theck am I going to? Get out of here. But it was a joke. They were just promoting a Radiohead deal and they were very friendly. But they looked real fierce. Like there were. Not going to let us down or something, but that was cool anyway. OK, one more thing this, the much ballyhooed DNA we will chart. The DNA will break down the code. We'll be able to deal with disease and so forth. Of course, that didn't. Happen at all. There's a piece in the Sunday New York Times, the June 18th New York Times that is the upside of bad genes and the whole point of this story is OK. You can pluck out a bad gene, but that might just screw up a whole. Complex interaction or. ecosystem if you will. It doesn't. You're not necessarily doing something good you may. It doesn't work that way. I mean, and that was the problem. The complexity, or even more than complexity of DNA. All the ways that these things do interact and work together. In fact, there's a new book. Steven J Heine DNA is not destiny. The remarkable, completely misunderstood relationship between your you and your genes. Very similar point. Now another.

06-06-2017

[audio]

Kathan, Cliff, and Ian host. Portland MAX attack as nihilism in action? R. M. Dunbar on friendship, indiscriminate violence and morality. Four calls.

05-30-2017

[audio]

"Nihilist" attack on Portland light-rail, two dead. Ads of the week. Everything is online - and often failing, paralyzing major services. OD's under-reported, mass shootings con- tinue. Birds, sea life steadily poisoned. Second Livestock, latest GMO madness, robot- ics for babies. Paul Kingsnorth: "Most of us don't want to change much."(!) Kathan, Cliff, Ian next week (June 6). International action reports, two calls.

05-23-2017

[audio]

ITS, ISIS claim responsibility for Manchester Arena bombing. No more Ringling Bros. Horkheimer on the circus and domestication. Ross Ice Shelf at risk, flooding threatens Global Seed Vault in Arctic. Anti-fat It's Going Down: pro-union, leftist, inflating the 'global rise of fascism.' Tokyo 2020 Olympics - 'greenest games of all' - stadium built of wood from rainforest indigenous Penan, destroying their lifeway. VICE UK sees pos- sible anti-tech counterculture emerging as online losing its luster. Action news, one call.

05-16-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Global hack by wannacry: no place to hide. Telehealth: be a virtual patient. Accelerationism. Murder of a young woman - latest fascist path- ology from ITS. Invisible Committee gets it re: technology; Adbusters does NOT. Shootings, oceans awash with plastic, coffee shops drop wi-fi. Action briefs, 3 calls.

05-09-2017

[audio]

The Great French election abstention. Further sickening ITS garbage: kill all hikers! Domestication is here to stay! Can't go back! Chronic misery of civilization, arctic melting faster, "alarming" Long Island water crisis, record heat in US SouthWest, opioid epidemic worsens. Indianthro- pologist regrets his role in domesticating Andaman Islanders. Resistance news, Feral Futures in SW Colorado, June 17-25.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kid. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: Pape Pape Pape WWBB. Hey hey hey hey hey. AWB 880 8 point point point point point point.

Speaker 3: AWVA, Eugene Good evening, you're listening to KWVA Eugene or it's time right now for Anarchy radio. Number here is 5413460645 I'm in the studio with John and we are going to get things rolling right after we listen to some music that's new to both of us. And not necessarily new. I'm going to investigate this while it's playing. This Anthony branker. Brunker branker

Speaker 4: Anarchy Radio May 9th. Well, I often feel this way, but possibly even more so tonight. Crazy stuff. It gets some especially crazy things and you can probably guess what one of them. Is from or about. Anyway, Kathy will be here to join us next week and I wanted to. I better get straight on this, I better figure. This out the Tuesday, the June 6th and Tuesday, June 13th will be. In Little League. So I think maybe one of those just guessing you one of those. Broadcast will be covered by. One or more other people, but. Going to try to figure that out before too long here. Well, it was a much valued French election Sunday. Le Pen got 11 million votes, 16 million were blank ballots or no ballots, 16 million abstentions. The biggest abstention percentage since. 1969 Yeah, democracy. Is fading and we see more of that going on. I thought that was possibly the most interesting thing about that. Thank you girl. Been a little minor ride going on out there or something. The sports kids. You know, I was looking again at the TV ads, the news cable, and Network News. Outlets because they say sometimes just scan that in terms of this program for one thing, but. You know I've mentioned this at least once. The chronic illness reality because in prime time I'm sort of guessing, but I think the more or less prime time advertising slots, it's amazing how you would think. Everybody has a chronic illness in this country, and they're making a lot of money evidently from that, but more specifically on a visceral level. And thisn't the dinner hour, I guess anymore, so I can talk about this. No, I mean the different ads for pharma for diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis. You know, these are the things Speaking of visceral, that's viscera. That's that's your insides, obviously, and it's usually thought of as. Has at least some emotional component and. Yeah, it's the massive toll of alienated life. I would say it's one way to put it. You know It’s getting us in a deep way down deep and a lot of other things too. At least who knows what exactly all the etiology or causation is. That's really don't. But and things like I think psoriasis eczema, there's a lot of stuff about that. I think those are relatively. More to do with the emotional component that's. Hitting everybody I guess. I've well, it's just last. Week I think I mentioned more. Cops are getting shot. And a constant. Let's not forget how many cops are shooting. People of color, especially unarmed black people. By the way, get down the line a little bit tonight. Going to be talking about the 29th communicate from the individuals. Tending toward the wild. And they've signed this latest one wild serial killers. So yeah, I see a certain conjoining of. The man is because, well, this different from the cops shooting. People are getting shot, but the random shootings? The serial killings, is what I'm getting at. Nothing new there. I suspect that's there's more of. But various places have been somewhat terrorized by crazed serial killers. It was nine random. Shootings in Phoenix. Recently, I guess they've just busted somebody. Yesterday I think about that, but anyway. And some of the. This just this just one day's insanity. Just a slight slice of 1 day's insanity yesterday. That is New York Times yesterday Den is growing in nations parks. Then as the background level is about twice. The normal background noise that you would get just being out somewhere. And 2/3 of the nation's parks. And that's owing to planes, cars, and industry. So all the different kinds of pollution, including noise pollution and a pretty wild piece. Also, today you have today, May 9th in the time Long Island sees its water go from bad to alarming. Suffolk County for example. Dead rivers closed beaches. Harmful algae blooms. That's that was new to me and also. Today, warmer Alaska may mean more carbon emissions. Actually, this story takes out the may part of it as Arctic tundra. Is going from taking in CO2 from the atmosphere to putting it out. And of course, that's going strong in the Arctic, the thawing and more tundra. More melting of the permafrost as well. And here's there's something also today NBC News. The geoengineering? Responses to global warming. They're just. There's a lot of. If they weren't. If this weren't so dire, they'd be historically hysterically funny. You know, zapping putting iron filings in space to, . Somehow deal with it and. Getting the lasers fired up up there. All this stuff, they just seemed like this real desperation and obviously. It's in lieu of really tackling what causes it. Needless to say, they don't even have to say it, but here's a new one that just came out. New now researchers at Arizona State University. They're floating a plan to save the thinning Arctic ice cap. That's that part of the global warming thing. And it consists of get this 10 million. Pumps supposedly. Wind powered water pumps. 10 million of them to cover 10% of Arctic ice at a cost of $50 billion.

Speaker 3: Does everybody have to leave their refrigerator door open too?

Speaker 4: That would probably be more sensible than this, and it shows a diagram of how they're simple deals, but picture 10 million of them and well, for example. What would the cost to the climate be of making 10 million of these things for starters and then installing them and so forth? I mean not to mention the.

Speaker 3: And drive them all up there.

Speaker 4: Try them all up there. I guess you got to. Get them. Up there and so the idea is they would suck up the cold sea water and pump it up to blow it onto the ice during the winter. So it would be they'd be forming more ice due to 10 million pumps. Oh yeah, that'll work. I'm just sure of it. Oh boy, in another part of the warming. Up north, for example, climate change of course, again, melting the permafrost soil. Well, they've been frozen for thousands of years, and as the soils melt, they are releasing ancient viruses and bacteria. And that's I know after all that dormancy, they're springing back to life. Yeah, we have. We don't already have enough problem with antibiotic resistance to all the bacteria we. Apparently know about but. Whoa, just one more. Carry thing in. Speaking of warming, record heat in the Southwest reported the last few triple digit temperatures in Las Vegas. For example, these are records. 100 and. Eight in Phoenix on Friday that was May 6th. I don't need in early May that's. That's fierce. What will it be at the end of July? I don't want to find out. Saturday a chemical spill in Charleston, WV. So there is a ban on using tap water that's familiar already too. And then there are the hundreds of leopard sharks dying in San Francisco Bay. And they're trying to figure it out. Once again, the mysterious deal. There, in fact there may be. Thousands and they experts believe the sharks are picking up toxins in stagnant saltwater. I don't know why it's stagnant. Well, partly they're filling in the Bay they've that's been going on for years and years. But large numbers of dead sharks along this short shorelines. Pretty much all around the. Bay, especially in the northern part of San Francisco Bay. Oakland, San Francisco Largest die off in years. The repertoire is the baby's most abundant shark. And Speaking of China here. Yellow fever epidemic spreading in China enters a piece in the New York Times on Saturday. The 6th about the dust storms. That are taking over China, especially in the east and the north. And that's because of the desertification you got more dust. New record levels of hazardous air. In Beijing specifically. The Chinese deserts expand by gobbling up roughly 1300 square miles a year. Yeah, they now these these major death terms are annual. Annual occurrence and making the pollution worse. There you go. And if you notice bike by journal Mulligan Park here in Eugene. Have you seen that the.

Speaker 3: New Deal I haven't been by there in a long time.

Speaker 4: Well, they completely click at the thing. And now.

Speaker 3: Aren't there like a baby trees there now?

Speaker 4: I bet they won't get very big if.

Speaker 3: Like they like, they cut down the real trees and put their trees there.

Speaker 4: Yeah, they didn't want to have homeless people sheltering from the rain, right?

Speaker 3: Under the trees.

Speaker 4: So when I saw this bike by there the other day, there were a couple of people that looked homeless. They were sitting at the picnic tables. Getting rained on it's.

Speaker 3: They didn't put spikes on the picnic table.

Speaker 4: That's probably next, but no shelter. It's and grandson. He's called it a desert. It's as he and Alice went by. He just looked out the window and said the desert. Well, 3. Oh boy, get some good Action News stuff. And by the way we're at 541-346-0645 as we cruise along here. Well, I'm just going to jump into this. There’s a couple of ITS type things and it's just sad. The phenomenon and the fact that what else is going on to talk about in a in a. Way that's not totally true. I certainly think it isn't true, but. Well, let's start with. Not the official 29th communique, but something from a website called Miko Yu. Which apparently is a canai word or word given to them. By this we're talking about Southern Midwest Canada. The Plains Cree named them this particular group, Miko Yu, meaning bloodthirsty so, and this this a piece called rewilding at the website, which is which takes the name miko you and. Yeah, they love the bloodthirsty stuff. And of course they repeat the ITS type. Nihilist refrain. The great wills of the past are dead, and that there is no going back to them. Now everybody says that yeah, Democrats, Republicans, nihilists, they insist on it. They repeat that mantra. No, domestication is inscribed in our flesh. Yeah, OK, right. It isn't the fact that we lived. Outside of domestication, for two or three million years, but. You know that's just that's an article of faith, but it's a really messed up faith with me, just. Just completely throwing the towel in every way. It's nonsense to talk about rewilding. Or think about what it would be like to not be domesticated. Yeah, this savage constant attack. On what they don't like, it's just it's. It’s strange in a way why they have to insist upon this, why they have to? Why are they so exercised about that? They that's their whole deal. You know, it's just. It's incredible. I mean, it's not incredible. It's been around for a while, it just keeps. They just keep repeating the same stuff and I would say getting even crazier, getting even more. Vicious and. Stupidly, nihilist, in my view. And here's the aforementioned 29th communique. Oh, there's some great stuff here. And I'm going to jump right to the punchline as I see it the most incredible thing about it. And who knows if this true? Who knows if any of these things that they recount? And take it, take responsibility for true. I'm not too worried about the death threat against me that they more or less put out a month or two ago, so I don't take it seriously, but it's the thought that counts, maybe right? It's the pathology in the mind that. Is the striking part of it outside of whether or not? Any of this actually well toward the end of this communique, they're talking about being out in a I think they called it a semi virginal wild part near Mount Taloc, and I don't know where that is. It's somewhere in Mexico. And they've been there. Apparently there's been some. Illegal loggers. And they said in the communique we thought previously to kill some of the illegal loggers. You know you. Getting to that like. Well, that would make more sense than blowing up passers by. Let me just read this. We thought previously to kill some of the illegal loggers on Mount Tilok. They're apparently at the base of this mountain or hill. Since they think they can just cut down a tree without any consequences, well, they're wrong about that. We will EFF up all of these modern humans who devastate the earth, but that will have to wait a bit because no truck was seen coming up to log. But a nature loving couple passed by where were stalking and finally the devil appeared. Well, were looking only with the eyes of. Only a detonation was heard, and in seeing the detonation and the individual falling gunshot, obviously their cowardly companion tried to flee, which was useless. They only got 4 steps before the other other bullets struck them in thead. And without further ado, we left that place, leaving no trace without witnesses. And so forth, and they go on to say the police and the mediare trying to say it was a. Mugging but they disagree of course, because they want to take. Credit and what they're saying is that. They make it very clear any human in nature should be killed. We won't hesitate. Yeah, if it isn't sickening and people are lapping this up and it really is something, here's a little contrast. By the way, free Radical radio is back. And they are putting up their podcasting that communicates. I don't know how many they're going to do. They're starting with number one and one and #2 Yeah, that's just great, that's. Way to go. Yeah, let's hear more of this garbage. I don't know people just get titillated by they're so far gone. And they're nihilist. Bag that. That's what they. Applaud and want to hear about more and more. That's just repulsive. Meanwhile, under theading rewild resist. Wild roots feral futures is going on 9 years running now and they're going to have the next one. From June 17th to June 25th. In southwest Colorado, they're trying to get it together now you can go to feralfutures.wordpress.com to find out. How to learn more and maybe maybe contribute? Maybe there in the mountains of. In the Rockies there in Colorado, great people out there. Yeah, but . Getting back to ITS yeah they signed to communicate wild serial killers. Which is pretty much all they've ever been. As a friend of. Mine noticed. Yeah, you can go to a Tulsand find this stuff. Is is a favorite passage from a friend of mine? We no longer take the position of being defenders of wild nature, nor that of anti civilization primitivist nor any of the other terms that you've heard applied to us. I don't. I'm not sure why people would apply that to them, but we have positioned ourselves as the enemy of the human being, without concerning ourselves about using civilization to carry out our actions. And this this stuck out too, for. I mean, they're the publicity hounds and they. You know, if you thought of this as just a big hoax. Just a big long running bad. You know? Somebody's doing a pretty good job of it. I'd have to say because it's pretty seamless, pretty coherent. You know, to just throttle this out. You know to take up this position to publicize this position. Here's another part of it that's getting to this quote. The human being is not necessary in the natural biological systems of planet Earth. The only thing that it does is modify it in a negative manner. Well then. That's the destructive power that they are wielding, isn't it? You know. They can. Yeah, whatever gets in the way of the nothing these nihilists idealize yeah that would in other words is a little bit contradictory isn't it? It actually can take any species out of the ecology overall, and you could still if it evolved that way, especially, you still have a functioning ecosystem. I mean. You could say everything is necessary or nothing is necessary. I mean, that's just that's just some rhetoric, . Anyway, I am buoyed up by the announcement from Wildwood's feral futures and again you can go to feral futures. That or feralfeatures.wordpress.com. And find something healthy that isn't surrendering. In a little. Self induced **** of indiscriminate violence. Yeah, gunned down these hikers this couple that was out there. Yeah, they should die. It's of course they should. All righty. Well, I've been having. I don't want to. Well maybe I won't even get to it. That's gripe about. Thell this show has been. Realized there was a few problems that anyway, but we know we're talking about, but domestication. Let's just go on that again a little more from people who are. They were humans who were worth being called humans. I would say an amazing story. I found this pretty amazing Saturdays New York Times. Anthropologist season of regret over helping tame a tribe. Team and tribe. That's exactly the domestication of course. A fellow anthropologist who's known as 80s TM pondit. And as his in his old age, he's thinking about the time he spent with the hunter gatherer tribes of the Andaman Islands, which are E. Of the subcontinent. And it's still pretty pristine area, although a lot of the people that were uncontacted. Well, to get to the point, he was very instrumental and he's and he does regret it. In getting these people to be contacted. And he thinks back about the primitive people living very simply, especially the ones on an island called N Sentinel. And so they were termed the Sentinel leaves. And the process of immigration. And how? How debilitating it was exposed to modern way of life wasn't easy. I mean, they didn't just jump for it, but. You know similar. Similar story mainly everywhere US, Australia, et cetera. Devastated by disease and addiction. Now they're mostly beggars. They've just been ruined their entire culture, the integrity of it is just killed. And so, yeah, that's but it's. But it's really a delusion to think about domestication, isn't it? To think about. What it would be like, what it was like outside of civilization and this guy ruins the day or the years. I should say that he spent. Doing that and just. They shouldn't have put down their bows and arrows is what he's saying. They should have kept the. All the garbage of modernity and civilization out. You know they should have been allowed to. Somehow allowed to be hunter gatherers? Now they beg for things. The negative impact of contact is inescapable and sad. Yeah, this guy he's he's come to terms with this. He. His face, the truth of what he did and he understands it. He understands the magnitude of it. The cultural devastation. Well, and by the way, here's another like to give a shout out to Leila Del Rahim's book. It's one of two books, but this book is called children's literature, domestication and Social Foundation. Narratives of civilization and wilderness parents. She hasn't drank the kool-aid to say that. Domestication is just ineradicable. It's just a. You know part of our DNA now. Well, that's just exactly what our Masters want us to swallow, but Leela certainly hasn't swallowed it. And I think it's struck me as a companion to this Indianthropology. Meditating on. On what he witnessed. And was actually a part of. Well, let's see. We got we better we better take a break here and wait for your call. Yeah, we got some. We got some dub, I think right. So was that it?

Speaker 3: I don't remember what this.

Speaker 4: We'll find out.

Speaker 2: Gleaming and twinkling in the night the night.

Speaker 4: That was dub zombies by a head case. Let's go on to something a little more uplifting. Take the crap taste out of my mouth anyway, some action, news and related stuff. Get a message just couple of days ago or so from. A friend in England's northern England. He reports local resistance is happening everywhere here in Sheffield and where I live, but I want to give way too many details. At all but. They're talking about saving trees. High speed rail opposition, high speed, high speed rail, and fracking. The fracking thing. Frack free Lancashire. Is the name of the. Deal there that they in support of, I guess, made me think Lancashire. That was really a very central the Luddite risings 200 years ago. near North England just to. So it lives on. I don't really have details about this, but this ongoing stuff and it sounded pretty good. OK May 1st brothers. I could have continued. We could continue now with more about Mayday, but that's in the past but just mentione thing. Costa Rica burning barricades. Insurrectional action in Costa Rican territories. For all the fallen and the anarchist prisoners they will never kill the idea were everywhere. We exist and we resist. May this society fall. In Vietnam, I remember seeing something about this a while back, so I guess this back because. The most recent thing about this, these are villagers holding officials and police hostage to fight off development. The latest piece of Saturday the 6th in the New York Times. Yeah, and the most recent round of this. Three dozen officials and police were taken hostage. This about 910 days ago. Don Tom Village on the outskirts of Hanoi. Yeah, they're fighting back because they just seized land for. Industrial development and other kinds of development. It's pretty major in Latvia. 400 Mink were released in a breaking at the Baltic, Devon, Mink Farm on the night of May 2nd May 3rd, similar to one and at the end of April at the Gauja for Farm also in Latvia. Several dozen cages were opening. Were opened. Yeah, several €1000. In losses to the people. Imprisoning the. And the teachers in Chiapas, yeah once again. Also, in wahaca this we heard about that quite a bit, but in Chiapas well fighting the government and the official Union. There was a piece and it's going down May 6th. Yeah, they've been really a lot of on May 3rd, for example, 72 hours of Hwy, toll booths, takeovers, taking of public buildings, closing shopping malls. And lots of stuff that's. On and off that's been ongoing, yeah? And let's see Buenos Aires. There was a solidarity demo. At the Chilean consulate, St St was blocked. Small fire, graffiti everywhere at the Chilean consulate in solidarity. With three Americans jailed in Chile. Speaking of Chile that this happened in Argentina but in Santiago, Chile. OK. Early on May 5th. We arrived at the grimmy with the horse track, a race horse track. Sealed all their locks and main entrance with liquid steel glue and there's a little. Graphic of the aforementioned steel. Glue easily obtained and they're going to continue hindering the operation of this place. And any other where animal exploitation takes place. We will always be there, disturbing them. That is our commitment. Alf, Chile and ELF Chile. On the same date actually. Noise bump inside a large car dealership in Santiago double dipping there in Santiago, Chile. Athens yesterday, May 8th we came to the Office of Perfect Clean. It's an odd name for a real estate agency, but. They're talking about the predators that gentrifiers, making it impossible to pay rents. Yeah, anticus collective rubicone this. Or something like that. In Athens this anti evictions outfit and there's a little bit of video. They some people just came in there and trashed the place. And let's see yesterday in Seattle, Chase Morgan no, JP Morgan Chase Banks, 13 branches of which were shut down temporarily in protest against the. Loaning by said bank to projects like Keystone XL pipeline. So that was a coordinated thing. And yeah, 13 different branches allowance. Climate News network reports. Today, actually a recent violent attack on a group of indigenous people in the Amazon rainforest in response to. Traditional people, indigenous people, reoccupying land. 1200 people occupying cattle farms. On what they what is their traditional land? And there we have the battle of domestication in stark terms. Yeah, violent, they’re trying to. They're trying to retake their land of course. Once the violence needed out this, this ongoing of course, and in the various areas. Where the forest has been cleared and replaced with cattle, pasture domestication straight up. But hey, it's a it's inherent in our DNA, it's just it's genetic now. So give it up. Don't don't have these delusions, don't. Put your life on the line. For something like that now, let's see this, that's no good. OK, also today Erica squat Rosa Nera which popped up in the news a while ago in Athens. Being defended defines that's the story which I hope to hear more about. How that's going on, but it's a battle. And 200 renters on strike in Toronto's Parkdale neighbourhood. That's into the second week. So there you have it. Some people aren't lying down and. All right? OK, somebody better call us hey 5413460645. Carlos checking the phone as we speak. Yep, no excuse. Well, here's a heart warming story. Getting into some tech stuff for the moment here. ABC News last Wednesday the 3rd. Yeah, heartwarming moment played out over the weekend in Seattle between a robotic cat and a woman suffering from mild dementia. But they put these stories out pretty regularly now. Because human contact human touch that's. It's passe. This a this a woman who lives. In an adult family home. And this fellow, who's identified well, is even they even have his name. Decided to present his mother with a robotic cat to lift her spirits, and there's a video of this. It closes its eyes, said his mother with amazement. You see, in the videos the cat shook its head and let out. A gentle purr. Oh man. Yeah, that's just her warming so you can just give her a machine and that’s the way that goes, yeah, alright, my so-called Instagram life in the Sunday New York Times there's a feature I forget what it's called but. It's sort of a. Is the love Lauren a deal? Then this one specifically. Is about. The sadness of. Of someone's Instagram wife? Main thrust of it is a continuity of dishonesty. This woman says I built her up that is the Instagram life that she installed without blueprints, not knowing she would become a wall with no doors. Once again, that's colonizing invasive addictive feature. Oh boy and let's see along these lines. In fact, in the same. In the same New York Times Sunday the 7th, don't let fake book make you miserable. And this details. Raw Google search data. Which proves that we are not who we say we are. On social media. How about that? Life online is lots of lies. It's I think that's not the first time we've heard that. People being made miserable. The images of other people, and then they're putting out their own images that. Maybe not all that accurate. There's a prediction by Matt Weinberg. Where did this come from anyway? Talking about oh from Business Insider. A little while back. He says the smartphone is eventually. Going to die. And things are really going to get weird. Yeah, they're already weird. He's he's implicitly copping to that. But wow, let's imagine that let's conceive of that. It would better than conceiving of. Life outside domestication I guess. Well and all this technology, the bonded technology that's making all these promises constantly and all these new developments by the hour tech trouble tops car gripes. This in the business pages AP story about the people's problems. With their cars. Dependability rankings of what's what's the problem with your car? Well, it's the technology about that. Yeah, these are surveys of and putting together how? That is the problem, not the solution. Well, boy, if nobody calls. He used to have a lot. Of good stuff here, but. This a little while back. Earlier the month I think it was early in the month. Cover of Time magazine. They had a they went back to they showed a cover from 1966. Is God dead? Apparently bunch of stuff about religious affiliation and so forth. Well, the cover the recent one cover of life is truth dead. So the postmodern world. And boy, there is no escape from that. It's just unrelenting. And it's just. It's just begging for the answer. As zany as things get, you always, it seems like what is expected implicitly as well. Who are you to say what? What, what grounds do you have no grounds for? Any real judgment or meaning, or any fixed or stable sort of assessment. We know, in the postmodern world, that's not. That doesn't exist anymore. Well yeah, and I know I've referred to this before, but it becomes absolutely. I mean, you don't. You don't have to puzzle over and scratch your head over it over and over again. What you do, I think you should, but. We already know. What what the entire ethos, the entire climate. Makes for this sort of reality. If you want to call it a reality. You know, and to. Get back to. The physical stuff that's going on there was Credit Guardian article. And thank you Austin for showing me this. May 4th Guardian the Great planet silence. We are on the edge of the abyss, but we ignore it. And of course there's a lot of denial. This absolutely nothing new, but. At least we're getting more stuff that really even where it comes out in different places, and some of it doesn't come out much. But we're getting the stark picture. You know we're getting. It's filling in the blanks. And this well, just I'm going to read just a little bit from this piece. Yet the earth sign has continued to haunt us following us around like wailing apparitions. While we hurry on with our lives turning around occasionally with irritation to hold up the crucifix of progress. And further down, perhaps the intellectual surrender is so complete because the force forces we hoped would make the world a more civilized place. Personal freedoms, democracy material, advanced technological power or in truth, paving the way to its destruction. Or you could say the fullness of civilization is we have, but the powers we most trusted have betrayed us, that which we believe would save us now threatens to devour us and a punchline. Our bottom line thing. So today the greatest tragedy is the absence of a sense of the tragedy. And if you want to get more on this from the from the author's book, Clive Hamilton, it's an excerpted thing from. A new book by Clive Hamilton. Defiant earth. The fate of humans in the Anthropocene. We'll have to check that out. And as it is, we find that nothing is natural. You know, you can't. These are just illusions, it's just all social construct. an interesting piece. In the journal Pediatrics. And there was. It starts out. It's a piece about mothers breastfeeding. it goes from one thing to another in a sort of interesting way, and they're talking about the tendency for people to believe that what is natural is better. You know, there's this powerful thought. And again, if there is no nature, there's no natural technology is good, and that's what they're getting at here, because they’re feeling that it sort of undermining. The text of the belief in the technological approach of course part of. This would be the. The anti vaccine people and I don't. At that point, so slow that not that I know a lot about it, but anyway, this piece rails against that. See if you want to make the whole big thing about breastfeeding and it's so wonderful because it's so natural and it doesn't really talk about the benefits for babies. Although it sort of alludes to them, but anyway it quickly. Gets on to. The thing that. The what they're concerned about the breastfeeding promotion. Works to praise the natural. And the implicit thing is. It ain't it. Doesn't mean it's good just because it's natural. They're on tricky grounds or anything, but. But what they're really getting at is. You know you don't have any. You're undermining things and you don't have any basis. Once again, it's like classic postmodern. You look out, if you think something's natural. It's not only an illusion, but. You won't have technology to save you if you if you're under wearing it. Yeah, the. Idea of the. Natural evokes a sense of purity, goodness, harmlessness, and so forth. But anything synthetic or technological is, of course, seen as unnatural and should arouse suspicion and distrust. And what's natural. Is supposedly safer and healthier, and of course they scoff and all that. It’s bizarre. Yeah, they don't want people to just to go nuts with that or to move really down the road all that much. And what? What seems to be getting worse in this society anyway? Is the opioid epidemic? They how many OD's. All the time, it just it's just a constant. Flood about that. It's a piece of oil back. New York Times in nurses room. Tylenol bandages and antidote for heroin. This New Rochelle, NY, which is a suburb of New York about. Naloxone for heroin OD's Yeah, just that's it's. A typical thing you need in a. In a school, the school nurse will. Necessarily be. You know I was talking about the all the different maladies. The chronic things that. Account for millions and billions of dollars worth of big pharma sales. The. What you get in this society in terms of the illnesses and complaints? D Scene which is a. Design journal architectural and design scene. They're talking about how. Well, it's a design thing, but basically secluded pods for office workers to meditate, smash things, or scream. Will be commonplace in two years time. According to these different people and research and so on, stress related illness cost the US economy $300 billion a year and it does. Issue forth in these different physiological. Illnesses, but yeah, they're going to have these so-called breakout pods. In workplaces, in the near future, to combat the epidemic levels of stress. Experienced by office workers all around the globe. We have to it's urgent that we reduce. The this stress level. Yeah, this from Europe and the US and as they say. Probably everywhere where you have the techno industrial. Rat maze of work. And meanwhile people are talking about sleep. Sleep is the new status symbol. Once we would brag of not eating very much sleep now deep slumber is coveted through apps, gadgets and classes. Because it's a rare thing you don't get much of in the general sense. In the terms of the overall culture, glorious sleep. Yeah, you got the dyspepsiand everything and you have the sleeplessness. In large doses. Yeah, well, I won't even go into the I could deal out some recalls. Of the week, but here's one that it was. This a tasty one in Florida. A dead bat was found in a 5 ounce solo wrapped salad mix. Packaged at a Walmart. And two ate from it. Rabies shots were recommended. And dead bat in. Your in your salad mix.

Speaker 3: A poor bath.

Speaker 4: Yikes, yeah, the poor bet. Yeah, geez, air pollution in London, No2, nitrous oxide no no not nitrous oxide. That would make everybody happy. I think this nitrogen outside. One of the very major pollutant in. From from traffic. In London, study shows that it produces as much life dissatisfaction. That's their term as the death of a spouse. Yeah, the pollution in the cities is oh, we conquered that years ago, right? Nope, Nope. Nope. OK, I figured that Chris in the building area so I can see through. The window here. So we're going to scamper on out of here. I think we. Got a. Considerably yeah, join join us and Katherine next week please.

05-02-2017

[audio]

May Day action! ITS #28 and Wandering Cannibals proclaim hate and death for all humans - except themselves. Humans in So. Cal. 130,000 years ago. "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning (Online)," "Pope Tells Tech Leaders to Nurture Ties With Others." More extinctions, power outages, shootings, anxiety "disorders." Head of AMA: tech HARMS patients. Resistance news, three calls.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: Www.bbb Hey hey hey hey. WB 888 point 1.1.

Speaker 3: KWV, a Eugene

Speaker 2: You suck, suck suck suck.

Speaker 4: That's right, it's. KWV a Eugene. You're listening to anarchy radio. As you do every Tuesday night at 7:00 PM, we're until 8:00 o'clock and it's just me and John in the studio today, the phone number. Of course, as always. In perpetuity, is 5413460645. We'll be taking your calls after a little bit of a music break. This from Northern Ireland it's a group called Citizen Nobody. This song is called born again primitive.

UNKNOWN: Rising from the. Water like a.

Speaker 2: All the.

Speaker 5: Primitivo from Belfast. We like it. Yes Ray, this May 2nd Anarchy radio. Well, I get some knockout stuff here. Knockout material where to start. Well I guess that's obvious in light of what happened yesterday. Yeah, there is medical energy out there. Talking about Mayday, that's for sure, and of course, the Pacific Northwest leads the way Portland Olympia. Oh man, yeah. From from the AP story about Portland. In this morning's paper, anarchist destroyed a police car, set several fires in the street, damaged storefront windows and attacked police.

UNKNOWN: And wow.

Speaker 5: And several cops were injured in Olympia by black clad protesters throwing rocks and smashing windows. Man, they went off and. The front page of the New York Times shows the line of. Riot cops. And two or more of them are on fire, and it was reported that six cops were injured. Yeah, they use the big old Molotov landed in the line of the cops and. And the local paper also front page here. Concerning Portland they could see. The what looks like the police, the police, the police cruiser in question is. Burning and the cops are sort of standing behind the flame. It’s a dramatic picture indeed. And then there's the usual. Sad litany of shootings. And as I was saying, spring time seems to really be. When it fires up. Sunday in San Diego. Two dead eight people shot. As the guy opened. In an upscale Apartment complex near the swimming pool there. He was killed, he killed. A womand there were. Several others wounded and a couple of them in critical condition then just yesterday. In Austin, TX, student minutes of the large hunting knife stabbed at least four people killing one. Yeah, and also along the lines of violence. Out there New York terms last Wednesday the 26th firearms and driver is a lethal combination, rapid rise in road rage since 2014. Really a big number. And then we've got the violence, the violent attitude, and the claims of violence from. Individualists tending toward the wild are good friends. 28th communique. They love to put out those communiques. Well, of course denouncing. Publicity and mediand so forth. We attack, we attack all that has to do with the human being or hate is the same for all humans. Well, you've heard all this before. And they report this they report is happening on Thursday, April 13th. In Mexico City. On the let's see the Alameda. It's a Blvd I think they left an explosive envelope of some kind. And 16 year old girl. Found the envelope. Apparently she wasn't really injured. The press states that the explosion did not wound her. It seems like the bench where the envelope was abandoned served as a barrier between her body. And the blast. But of course, they're disappointed that the 16 year old girl Didn't get blasted by this. A curious girl took the bait. The envelope was addressed to no one and whether it was opened by a young girl and an old man, it would have been all the same to us. Taking the misanthropic course. We have plunged ourselves into the abyss of the indiscriminate so forth. We kill our inner humanism for indiscriminate attack. May explosive love letters proliferate. Yeah, very nice stuff and an echo. Of that from this from a. Wandering cannibals. Which is a website I think a spin off of the Atassa. Publication I think it's. Put out by the same person it's called. Of angels and cyborgs. And very similar deal. You know I don't need to read from it. Part of it says even the primitive is the so-called species. Trainer is bound to the illusion that the salvation of the human. Will be the salvation of wildness, which is laughable. The only thing that the human can do now is bleed, die and decay. You know, it sounds like Hitler at the end in his bunker. Germans deserve to go down in flames. They have betrayed me. They're not worthy of. National socialism so they should all die. With me as I. Approached my suicide in the bunker in Berlin? Yeah, it's just as it's just as ridiculous. The final destiny of techno industrial society and perhaps of humans themselves, they're hoping. Well, and by the way, hope is that word pops up again. Jason in Philadelphia. Regarding these nihilists who decry hope, that's one of the mantras. Of denialists in general, he says they have hope by the evidence that they have not killed themselves. That's a good point. Hitler killed himself my God well. This this connected to. I think a piece in Salon magazine. From Sunday the 30th. Phil Torres. He has a vertical called. It's the end of the world and we know it. Scientists in many disciplines see Apocalypse soon. And it's a pretty informative piece. It really goes down the list of all the. All the ecological disasters and we're getting to the end times. Kevin Tucker has mixed it up with this guy. He says Kevin and I'll get back to the article. Sounds an awful lot like anarcho primitivists or eco anarchist. But this the weird thing, in the middle of this article. He's the writer. Torres is talking about that. There are people that might even want the end. They celebrate the end. Of course, that's this. ITS outfit for one, I guess. He writes what sort of person might actually want to do this though, that is see the end of everything. Unfortunately there are many types of people who would willingly destroy humanity. The list includes apocalyptic terrorists, psychopaths, psychotics, misanthropes. OK, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And ecoterrorists anarcho primitivist eco anarchists, violent technophobes militant Neo Luddites. Et cetera. So of course I didn't see this. I hadn't seen it until Kevin showed it to me, and he of course takes issue with that. That's that's exactly wrong, and he identifies with the last four groups. The last four named orientations. You know you got it absolutely wrong as he's and they've had they're having a back and forth about this, which is good, I guess. But they're we are precisely not trying to see everything destroyed. With our with our illusions and our hope and our other idiotic delusions. But as I just referred to and the latest things that come out from ITS type folks, yeah, they willingly destroy humanity. They glory in it. But this guy. The piece overall got a lot of good stuff in it, but wow, he sure missed the boat. On that. And it ends up sounding like a postmodern liberal, in terms of the where, it's really coming from. Despite as I say, some good information. Oh, do we have a call?

Speaker 4: We do this boogie from the Bay.

Speaker 5: Boot you from the Bay, alrighty? Hi there are you with us.

Speaker 3: Fitting them good evening, John there I had a question about getting my hands on black and green review but not using like PayPal and electronic forms of payment. Is there either a way to mail some money? For all the. Copies that have come up. Until this time or. Find somewhere local. Like either in either in Pennsylvania or California, where they can be obtained just because don't quite like going through credit cards and stuff for that type of area.

Speaker 5: Well, well, that's if you were in Eugene. I could give them to you myself, I could. I could handle that. Well, you've probably seen black and green review. Press the main website.

Speaker 3: Right?

Speaker 5: I don't see that in my mind at the moment, but you don't want to contact them that way at all. Is is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3: Well, The thing is I am. I tried to send some mail to the PO Box that was listed on the old WordPress version of the site but it came back as returned to Sender.

Speaker 5: Really, the Salem Missouri PO Box.

Speaker 3: No, it was actually the Pennsylvania one. Should I use the Missouri one?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's and I would think that's up there. It's very public know.

Speaker 3: OK, I think I might have just been looking at an old at an old site that might not. Be the official one now.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I think if you were to contact because several of the editors now live in Missouri. OK, almost half of the editors do so. Yeah, that's for sure. They will get that stuff to you.

Speaker 3: OK, right on thank you very much and I. Keep doing everything you're doing.

Speaker 5: Thank you appreciate the call.

Speaker 3: You're welcome bye.

Speaker 5: All right, yeah, I know people can be apprehensive about. Giving out information that way. Well, something else this week. Pretty hot stuff. The finding this came out the middle of last week. I think it was news on Wednesday and Thursday. Humans lived in North America 130,000 years ago. Study claims. I mean, this just gigantic that's that. Puts like 100,000 years onto the. Main most popular version. Of when humans got to North America, either through the Bering Strait land bridge or. And some people have speculated that human humans were navigating on the oceans a long time ago, and that's probably. How this happened? Where this where they came from to? Evidence to be found near San Diego. Southern California Yeah, It’s really remarkable and I think overall it shows that almost every single thing needs to be put back further in terms of human capacities, human presence. **** and it's different. This was if you haven't seen the thing it was. Found that Mastodon bones. And along the freeway, the what is now in San Diego County and the way that they put this together was that the. The bones were handled in such a way cut and so forth that made it very much. Reveal or resemble the way you would do it if you were. If you were doing something with these bones to. Get the marrow. Out or what have you to cut them? Yeah, this really quite incredible. In the journal Nature that came out last week and came out last Wednesday. And it's just that it's a mind blower. My friend Jonathan in Canada. He said if this confirmed, it would be a huge discovery. It would completely rewrite all the textbooks on North Americanthropology, human origins, the out of Africa theory as well as megafaunal extinction theories. 130,000 years means there will be so many ramifications. I think that's a very apt summation. Yeah, they found these rounded stones nearby. I mean, there's just it really makes it look human habitation accomplished this, and they're dated. You know, to that date. It's quite astounding, It’s, so it's always cool to see these orthodox things. blowing up these taxonomy Orthodox statements just out the window. Apparently there may be. I, Imagine that there's some people that say, well, thisn't conclusive. It could be something else, but it so far it seems like the consensus is that. People were there doing this with these methadone bones. Well, let's see in the weekend Wall Street Journal the big story about Big Rise in anxiety disorders and it's, this thing always hits me the same way. It's a disorder to feel anxious. Society has a disorder, . Civilization has a disorder. It's pretty darn normal that, and I’ve certainly known people that have anxiety attacks and different forms of. A pretty strong anxiety. Who doesn't have some anxiety these days? If you don't, you're not paying attention at all, I think. Well, we sure have more severe. Weather and swings of weather. This came out yesterday, rare late season, Blizzard in western Kansas. And in the same story, at least 14 have been killed by tornadoes and flooding in the South and Midwest. Same storm. Well, it's not that there are no tornadoes in that area in the spring, but this getting stronger. This thing, and they have a Blizzard in western Kansas. As we move into May. Is bizarre and needs of extraction. Let's see, this came out last Thursday the 27th. More than 3000 petroleum wells are being shut down in Colorado as a precaution after a house explosion killed two people. The oil and gas company said. Yeah, the. Something's going wrong there. That ain't right, but. You know, as I've said before, we know very little about these explosions and leaks. There's a lot more, especially the leaks. You know, it's hard to hide up, hide a big explosion. It's killed people, but. Yeah, it came out right away that what culprit was involved? Well, and the impact the general. Humpback whales have been dying in extraordinary numbers along the eastern seaboard. Since the beginning of last year, unusual mortality events. Which means that marine biologists don't know what is going on. And so the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is opening an investigation. And see a lot of that. I think I mentioned the leatherback. Turtles last week, which are also endangered well. Impact whales are not yet endangered. I don't think. Unless they're killed. And but a lot of this apparently. It's industrial shipping collisions with ships. More and more of that. Whales colliding with said vessels in these shipping lanes. Meanwhile, from Mexico also reported late last week the rare vaquita porpoise has gone extinct. Entirely by quote human action. Yeah, the species event. Just keeps on rolling along. Well, 10 days ago, the power outages in New York. New York City and San Francisco. Made the news and last Thursday night 20,000 people lost power in LA County. And that was due to a windstorm. Certain things are not. So reliable, all parts of the grid, for example, are not as we know, I guess not really. Fail safe. Yeah, my friend, you turned me on to. This I had someone acquainted with this book, but I don't remember this passage. David Noble, the book, about 10 years old, I saw the religion of technology. I grasped the point right away that the attitude. The way technology in general is apprehended can be compared to religion, religious. Religious feeling surrounds the thing, and he's there's a passage in here. About Edward Bellamy and I'm familiar with the looking backward and very popular book. Came out in 1889. It was a socialist utopia. Very bureaucratic, very pro industrialism, just a really clunky lefty. a deal, and I thought. What a turn off. It's pretty much the very opposite of William Morris's news from nowhere. And I just can't get enough of news from nowhere. If you haven't checked it out. And strongly recommend that. Well, it turns out noble. Found out that toward the end of his life, Bellamy changed his thinking altogether. He just completely dumped the whole love affair. With onrushing industrial technology, and he wondered why, how anyone could be. Taken by it what? What's the appeal? What this not good. This so that's really nice to hear. I was not aware that Bellamy he's he's so famous for. Looking backward if you. And anybody who looks into the literature of. Of utopias or the left, or anything like that, that one pops up. Well, ABC News last Thursday reports that new climate change findings, meaning the Pacific Ocean of California, may rise higher and storms and high tides hit harder than previously thought. And we know that some areas are more subject to rising oceans and other things than than some other places. It's not a uniform development in terms of vulnerabilities. But, and they probably have more people studying it. In California, I would guess so. Boy, there sure is the same as in these. Stories, it's. Almost virtually everyone I can't think of 1 off hand. There must be some, but. That doesn't say. Well, sorry folks, it's worse than we thought. It's getting this in this direction faster. And more severe and so forth than than the last report we gave you. Meanwhile, once again I'm trying to keep track of this super bug thing, the. Any sort of thing? Well, the bacteria that is that any any any biotic available cannot handle. That's the scary thing, and it's becoming more prominent this has to do news. Last week's AP Story Super Bug fungus provides new minutes. And of course it's related to the bacteriand the fungus, but it's. Candidauris, it's a form of yeast, and in this case commonly used antifungal drugs have no effect. So it's acting like a super bug bacteria. Oh man, that direction is obvious. And other health stuff. World Asthma day. I didn't know that today was world was World Asthma Day. Today or yesterday. I'm not sure India chokes. Sales of medicines rise 43% in four years. That's the news from India. Indeed, this the sale of any anti asthma medicines. Went up to almost 50% over the past four years. New Delhi Hindustan Times. And once again, the microplastics in the rivers and oceans, mostly we've. We read about. The oceans, I guess, but. There's a piece called. From above the fold environmental needs fishing for microplastics in the Rhine. Scientists in Switzerland are concerned about microplastic pollution in the river Rhine. Tiny bits of plastic can end up in. Our stomachs by a. Fish, no, that's not the only problem. From Deutsche Villa. Oh yeah, I got some. That's some amazing tech stuff, some more anarchist stuff. And before the break I think probably everybody this to anarchy. Radio knows about national. Public radio or national Pentagon radio is Catherine. Well, they're fundraising again. And they. They announce themselves as unbiased and in-depth. Of course, it's neither. And meanwhile we just saw the end on the weekend of free speech radio network. It's done after a 17 year run independent outfit. Unlike NPR, it never got corporate NGR or government funding. Yeah, that's gone I wasn't very much acquainted with it actually, but. That's pretty bad news. Well, I think what we've got a little bit more from citizen. Nobody we're anxious to play some of this. This called. What is it called?

Speaker 4: This the patriarchy Blues.

Speaker 2: It's never gonna. Money banking.

Speaker 5: Yeah, some good stuff from Belfast. And let's see when we go into some Action News here. You know, I've taken some shots at antiva. A little bit. And I was going to be saying Victor will say it, that maybe it's lowered the bar. I don't know. Maybe maybe in light of the wonderful Mayday action. Maybe I'll take it back a little bit. Anyway, I was noticing that anarchistnews.org. They there was more weak non anarchist stuff there it struck me and maybe that has nothing to do with the big popularity of Antifa, but. It probably doesn't. I take it back, but now I was thinking about several stories about weed and the anarchist. Episode 7 the fight for better wages. Election news whistleblowers. I mean that they couldn't be more liberal, that is, is it? You just have to be. Assumed to be a Trump hater. That's all we need. That's all you got. I don't know, but it's I'm going to keep my eye on that because. It does have this somewhat lowest common denominator. Forest by it I think it did.. It tends toward that, I think. And but who knows, there's it's not a super wild time except yesterday. That is, again, that some things are on. The on the Wayne. Some projects have ebbed and even gone away. If you're considering them in general, such as the Free Speech Network news. And then we had the Portland OR pothole fixers. What about a month ago? Yeah, some more photos of that. And now Buffalo red and black clean sweep. This was, I guess, this was on Earth Day. I think it was back in the 22nd. Of April Picking up the trash. Sweeping the sidewalks. I don't know. I mean, so that's OK. If you want to do that, there's nothing even slightly radical about it, it's it seems like more like nice liberals desperate for approval. But it's not. It's not a bad thing to do, it's just man. Are we down to that? That's that passes for. Anti authoritarian or somehow? Into that bag well, but I digress. You know, I just wanted to mention sources of anarchist resistance. And boy, I forgot a sure long list of people that have helped out this radio project. In general, not necessarily about Action News, but. I could just run down a whole long list, but anyway It’s certainly much appreciated. It just helps this thing go. In a very big way. OK, but specific sources online sources for the action briefs. You know the. Pretty much illegal stuff that I. Like to highlight. A movie there used to be there was social rupture. There was war on society. You know, and these these outlets come and go and nobody says you got to do it forever. But now, but by the way, just for information that you might want. The current ones that are so very helpful information wise it's going down insurrection news. Earth first newswire and a real stand by man. They've got the longevity award here. 325 no state. Very solid, very long running. I think that's in Europe. And whoever does that is certainly hung in there. Well, this was posted last Friday the 28th in English from indigenous folks in Oaxaca. There has been. A blockade of the Trans Ismus highway. Between Quantec and Hoodslam Hochatown that is. Entire community opposing the latest Mega project. Yeah, they’re just. This another mining thing. Flagrant violations of every kind that's been going on. I'd like to get an update on that. And a little. Bit of Alf stuff. Many hunting towers have been destroyed in both east and West. Of the Swedish woods during this winter spring, the nature and all life is under attack. For total liberation, all of Sweden. Also, swinging 11 rabbits were freed last week, rescued from appalling conditions. And sometime last week, another ATM was torched in solidarity with the intricacy cues of the Archan bank robbery in German in Germany. This arson was in Basel, Switzerland incinerated. The photo can tell you about that. In Rio WOW last Thursday, Friday. I have a feeling it died down a little, but it surely surely hasn't gone away. Want to update on this too? Resistance to propose anti labor austerity measures. Gigantic more than eight buses were burned in Rio de Janeiro's downtown. Lots of barricades clashes everywhere with the cops. There was a huge repression by the military police, but libertarians and anarchists bravely resisted in the night of the barricades. And Brazil isn't really well. There's the landless movement that's pretty major. In Brazil but. You know, if you speak with people there, they'll say there was never any revolution in Brazil, and sometimes you get the feeling they're not sure there will be one, but. But this pretty. Pretty strong, pretty insurrectionary. And I bet it's still going on actually. And Speaking of Brazil, squats in occupied in central Sao Paulo. There is something like 50 occupied buildings. There housing some 4000 families. And people find a way. Yeah, then these there is a. There's a great awareness of too. This a. Great consciousness. No alcohol, no drugs, no violence, mutual respect, real estate prices have shot up enormously and people have taken. To solutions that are available when you go for them. Mayday in Moscow, a group of autonomous senators walked through the streets of Moscow and made sure that Big Brother is no longer watching. Surveillance cameras. Big Brother watching you then smash out his eye. We are constantly under the supervision of the state, et cetera. Yeah, and there's a photo going along with that. And Mayday also, as well as the big demos and that resistance in the streets. Joe Moreno is a is a ward is an yeah Ward Alderman in Chicago. He's wants to claim to be a progressive politician, but. He's a real gentrifier and. Families being torn apart and pushed out of the neighbors. So they certain people. They don't care about about BS marches. We smashed out the windows of Joe Moreno's office. Unless I'm a night note. A nice note on the facade explaining why. In spray paint, no doubt. Meanwhile, 6 out of 10 Angelinos thinking of the ride is likely in the next five years. And we just passed the 25th anniversary of the 92 uprising in various parts of LAnd this sentiment. Is increasing for the first time after two decades of decline, so that's towing. That's what's out there about that. 5413460645. We've sure got some zany old tech stuff and other things that I think are somewhat related. Is the piece in the Sunday New York Times under cultural studies? Oh what a beautiful morning online. It's quite amazing. I think we they wait for this call and get on to this story. Of a very gripping video game. Hello there hi hi hi there. How's it going?

Speaker 6: Hey, just a quick question to follow up on the Black and green review. Is there an outlet here locally where we can obtain physical copies of that for cash?

Speaker 5: Well, I don't think it's I mean I. Yes I can do that myself. Actually, if you're talking about Eugene.

Speaker 6: There's no brick and mortar shop, it's.

Speaker 5: No, no, not anymore.

Speaker 6: Where it's available?

Speaker 5: It's we're working on more distro. More outreach, but I don't think so. If you'd like to e-mail me. Is that something you might want to do?

Speaker 6: Or you can read it online too, I suppose right?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, sure.

Speaker 6: OK, can you give that info?

Speaker 5: Oh my e-mail address.

Speaker 6: Just where you can read the publicationline.

Speaker 5: Well, there's. You know there's been four issues #5 will be up this summer. Number one is sold out completely and that's online, but not much else is online. But for anyone I've given out my e-mail address before anybody wants to contact me.

Speaker 6: If you're comfortable doing that.

Speaker 5: Sure, it's Jay-Z, primitivo. PRMITIVOZ Primitivo at Gmail.

Speaker 6: OK, thank you John. I just wanted to.

Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for your interest.

Speaker 6: See how we could.

Speaker 5: Yeah, there should be.

Speaker 6: Look at it.

Speaker 5: We there was an info shop at the boreal, but the person that was talking.

Speaker 6: Right?

Speaker 5: You know that's not there anymore. Because it's somewhere else.

Speaker 6: Oh, that's too bad.

Speaker 5: So yeah, it is too bad. That would have been one easy way to do it.

Speaker 6: Yeah, seems like an alternative. Book Store Info Shop is sort of missing here in town right now.

Speaker 5: Maybe we'll get there. Maybe we'll get back to that.

Speaker 6: All right? Thanks John.

Speaker 5: You're welcome, take care. Alrighty well Gee, black and green review and on the subject. July is the deadline, but so once again, we'd love to hear from you if you have. If you want to write a letter or an article or what have you, we 7 editors are would be very interested in hearing from you. Oh, we got another call.

Speaker 4: It's another unique color. This Steven.

Speaker 5: Steven, yes hello there.

Speaker 7: Hi can you hear me OK great this Steven.

Speaker 5: Definitely yeah. Can you hear me?

Speaker 7: I called Ben last week about the weather. You know the cold and the rain here in Eugene, OK.

Speaker 5: Right, right, right yes.

Speaker 7: There has been another development, I just thought I'd mention here. I live downtown right at 11th and Olive and. Starting just a few days ago, I began to notice the trees outside certain trees, ones that are all the branches they make a shape that resembles like the flame of a candle., upward and the ones they're on W 11th St. And it's just directly S. No, not S. What am I saying directly? East of Olive St they.

Speaker 4: By the.

Speaker 5: Bus station there, huh? By the bus depot there.

Speaker 7: Yes, yes, right across the street from that and on that side of the street as well.

Speaker 5: Then there will be heaven.

Speaker 7: Actually on both sides of W 11th they are. This my first spring in this location so I don't know whether this typical for these trees, but they look very odd right now. They're turning as like there's this sort of pale green that they're turning, but then, as you get further out the leaf. They're turning red. It looks more like autumn like November. October, November than it does. You know, April, may and I called the urban forester here in Eugene, and I haven't got answer back. They were checking on it. I called them yesterday and still haven't heard from them so I don't know what's going on. I myself don't know what trees they are. Except they're deciduous, but Hazel.

Speaker 5: Did you notice when they started?

Speaker 7: No, I'm not sure I really there. The leaves are fairly small at this point, so they haven't been there that long. But I know that some trees turn a deep. You know they're already out, leaves with this very deep red. That's not what's going on here. There's something else and I. I think you. Ought to take a look at this. It's really, really strange. Anyway, I wrote. Last week, after talking to you, I wrote up essentially what I said to you on air, and I sent it in to Z net. You may be familiar with that. It's a leftist website, although Noam Chomsky. Does publish a lot of his political stuff on that? And he's he's some anarchist. I mean, maybe not the variety you care for, but he is. You know he has written some things that and he says he's anarchist and everything. But anyway, I sent it to the. Them and they didn't publish it and they never said they.

Speaker 5: No, they probably are not very aware of Eugene, but there was some very severe weather this winter and it could be that the two very cold. Nice sessions we had in December and January.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. I don't know. I don't know what this point but.

Speaker 5: OK, well keep working on it and yeah thanks.

Speaker 7: OK.

Speaker 5: For calling man.

Speaker 7: Sure, OK bye.

Speaker 5: I didn't even know there were trees down. Still living down there. They can be very.

Speaker 4: Big can they W 11th and olive.

Speaker 5: Between that would between olive and Willamette. He was talking about. Trees anyway, we'll. Take a look next time. We're down there. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if something new is going on with it. But online oh, what a beautiful morning. I started to save by Virginia Heffernand then she writes for the New York Times. On occasion, she's talking about this. It's website, called Stardew Valley. And how Speaking of addictive stuff this a game of the video game and. It’s from steam, which I guess is the biggest digital distro platform for computer games. And how, how amazing it is just a sort of a longish piece. And part of the story you get into this. Stardew valley. Started do there's a grandpa in the picture. Having trouble picturing this, but. Grandpa wrote a letter telling me that he wants quote lost. What mattered most in life. Connections with other people in nature. This a video game telling you that and so. Anyway, she goes on with her experience with her daughter and they're playing this thing. And she's trying to. Do my grandfather proud by staying on line. I mean the whole. Thing is, is really convoluted and crazy anyway toward the end. On a whim, I glance out my apartment's real window. It is magnificent spring day in the real world, rich with highly realistic graphics. That's what it is. Reality is just graphics. No, come on. I've been playing this game for hours. It hits me like a sock to the gut. I seem to have lost sight of what matters most in life. Connections with other people and nature. How about that? Gee, do you think that's the nature of this? And this it's almost just goofy. OK, you’re that far gone, but at least you copped to it. I guess I don't know. It's pastoral video game. That's what rivals nature and you don't have to actually go outside. You know it's a. Good part of it. Let's see, just wanted to mention this. This from the journal Research Ethics. It's about. Facebook emotional manipulation. The paper seeks to understand what autonomy in quotes means for Facebook and what Facebook means for autonomy. I don't have time to go. Into this too much. That's from the abstract. And the negative impact of Facebook that brings in Jacques Lowe. Who's quite brilliant on technology? Yeah, that fits right in with the. Stardew Valley, I would say. Slightly different deal, but meanwhile this. This probably the most preposterous of the week in the test tanning. Glove is what I just. This from last Thursday the 27th. Pope. Francis urged an audience of technophiles and entrepreneurs to use their powers of curiosity and inquiry to explore and nurture the relationships that bond human beings to one another. And theadline of the piece, Pope tells technology leaders to nurture tie with ties with others. From the Vatican to a Ted Conference, have a human touch? Yeah, that's just exactly it, it'll Papa. Boy, no lie you have correct the whole thing, you just. That's the most ridiculous and it, reminds me of the Dalai Lamand he showed up here last year. I guess it was and people flocked to this to hear these bromides. These witless generality sounds nice, but it means nothing. But this even worse. I would say can you see this crap with a straight face? Exactly what takes away the human touch? The bonds between humans and nature. Or are you that? I don't know brain dead or I don't know what. I don't know what I'll explains that it baffles me. Meanwhile, last middle of last week, a man in Thailand broadcast himself murdering his 11 month old daughter in a live video on Facebook before turning off the camerand hanging himself. Yeah, I'm on Facebook, yeah. The gruesome case is the latest in a string of violent crimes that have been broadcast over Facebook to a wide audience, sometimes millions. And I was stretching in pure. But I heard most of a broadcast on Saturday. The 29th Interview with thead of the AMAmerican Medical Association's Doctor Who's currently the president there, and the long and short of it is that technology has harmed patients. Not only by wasting doctor's time on the computer. But the actual physical techno stuff? In every hospital. Has not helped. It has not improved healthcare, super costly, more and more remote from the human touch. As the day goes by. And this thead of the AMA. Probably wouldn't identify as a primitivist. Or even a Luddite, but. Anyway, and the National Geographic, this something I saw just a little bit of I couldn't couldn't stomach it, but I noticed. I had a chance to see this. They have. I guess it's a series called Origins. About human origins, I have a book called Origins. Anyway, it was so remarkable it started out, or the part I saw. I think it was the beginning of the thing. Over and over was the mantras the species we are always exploring. We are always looking for new things. We are always pushing. We are always exploring that the narrator must have said this six times in a row. This the very same point. It happens to be completely false. That's that's not at all the case. That's a very modern, relatively recent thing. Always exploring, never happy with the way things are. And I just mentioned one. Little datum. On the subject as is. From the archaeologists, who I think are continually still absolutely vexed and baffled by the fact that for one million years the design of stone tools did not change. 1,000,000 years and what is what is sort of baffling is that we really do know that a million years ago. **** species had the same intelligence we have, and actually we know this. I mean, I think this really. I think it's beyond dispute actually that what goes into making a tool out of a rock is various stages and conceptualizations to do that. You have to have. You have to have intelligence to do that. Equal to ours million. Years ago So it's just stupid to say as a species, we're always exploring that's not the case. We nothing was changing much at all, not just stone tools, but bands society, small face to face, groups of 50, or whatever it was. Yeah, no, we didn't branch out into tribes and. Villages and cities and empires and all the rest of it. There was no rush to do that was driven by domestication. Which is only nine 10,000 years ago. You know, and it's just preposterous to say things like that. Well, it rivals the Pope for the weeks Preposterousness well, one more, and this the add of the week. We could file this under preposterous as well. TV ad for Samsung. It shows a group of ostriches. One of which is very is wearing a VR. If you can picture an ostrich with the VR over its face, well they all start running and the VR equipped ostrich takes flight. You see the shadow on the ground as the other ostrich is running along the ground. So yeah. Totally goofy, and here's the punch line we make. What can't be made. So that you can do what can't be done. Wow, ***** ** the VR and you can fly like an ostrich. Zany upon zany to zany. Well, let's see. Carlin will be here next weekend in two weeks. Let's see, that would be the 16th Kathy. Will be here. Yeah, so yeah. There's always great stuff and so. Chris ready to come on in, so we'll see you next week.

Speaker 2: Who let the sun beat down for my body? Dollars 2,000,000 I am a trapped.

04-25-2017

[audio]

Anti-fa? Yes, but...Zombies of the week. Documenta 14/postmodernity/March for Science. No more play for kindergartners, groundwater going. Acid attacks on big rise in UK. More nightclubs are anti-cell phone. Website best way to con- nect with ill friend. Where's the post-left, anti-civ pulse of anarchy?? Latest from The Brilliant. "Panic Attack": "society is a stew of unease, fear, rage, grief, help- lessness and humiliation." Action briefs, three calls.

04-18-2017

[audio on KWVArchive: navigate calendar to 4/18/2017, click on the date, then click the 'play' icon next to Anarchy Radio. There are several minutes of music before the show starts.] Kathan co-hosts. KZ reflects on the 47th anniversary of her felony arrest and the course of her life. More on anti-fas a weak, lowest-common-denominator liberal approach. More spills, shootings. Earth Day?? "France in the End of Days." "How Western Civilization Could Collapse" (BBC). The ever greater lies and swindle of technology, its ever greater colonization and reach. Resistance news, one call.

04-11-2017

[audio]

Shootings on rise. Creeping fascism?? Abe Contreras attacks JZ for ITS. Friendship - has it gone? Munich's Blitz nightclub bans cell phones but tech is ever more totalitarian. Kevin Tucker's "Peak Civ" column at It's Going Down. Robots for old people provide a more "deep" communication than "human-to- human" interaction. UK toy company called Technology Will Save Us. Action news, three calls.

04-04-2017

Anarchy Radio...No recording due to failure at radio station.

03-28-2017

[audio]

Orange County Anarchist Book Fair says. "Abandon divisions" - anarchist trend back to leftism? Springtime rise in shootings, polar ice at record lows. US white adult death rate up sharply. Climate change worsens massive China smog, Seattle pumping millions of gallons of raw sewage into Puget Sound. My ITS death threat, theme parks going virtual. "What would your 'model' society look like?" Action news, 3 calls (2 on-air).

Transcript

Speaker 1: Days, but for me, Austin Craycraft for Greg Kelly and for Alex Castle doing the producing and in a different chair than usual. We appreciate everyone for listening and we will see you back in 23 hours.

Speaker 2: You can listen to quack smack on kW, VA if you miss any portion of the show or just want to listen again, you can find the full show recordings online at kwvaradio.org. Plus we're on Twitter at kW, a spa. Join us again for our next episode tomorrow at 6:00 PM right here on KWV, a Eugene 88.1 FM.

Speaker 3: We're listening to KWVA, Eugene and it's. Time for anarchy radio. This Tuesday evening once again. Number here is 5413460645. John is over here getting getting his act together getting ready and I'll be sitting here waiting to take your calls. We're going to have a little music from Taj. Mahal to start our evening.

Speaker 5: I had the Blues so bad.

Speaker 4: One time I meant put my face. Now I'm feeling so much.

Speaker 5: Better shall I can peek wall.

Speaker 4: In the town, honey I won't. Up this morning feeling so good, back down again, throw your big leg up my nephew this good.

Speaker 5: My baby, my baby.

Speaker 4: I'll be with you all. I love that we should be. Getting scared.

Speaker 5: I've been out, work it, done that.

Speaker 4: From the rich folks. I will love. To take their country. So bad one time.

Speaker 5: It with my face and I permanent side so much better child I keep walking.

Speaker 4: Out of town.

Speaker 6: Radio was March 28th next week, April 4 or Clifford. Mr Cliff will join us. You've been coming down here from Portland. That'll be very cool. Man, we got a bunch of heavy stuff to impart tonight and some absurd stuff to be sure as well. Let's just start with this. Here's here's a sort of anarchist challenge. Put that into that department anyway. The 3rd annual Orange County Annie's Book Fair took place last Saturday in Anaheim, Southern California, and it was a heavy Antifa theme. All it's going down. For example. Big fascist scare. In other words, you would have to read that as Trump scare. And the fixation Trump. Not that there's nothing that there isn't any. Terrible stuff going on. Along with that, it certainly is but like elaw, I was mentioning that earlier in the week. When Iand I tabled there, the official thing was unity. And with the Orange County folks quote, we must abandon divisions and join a common struggle to free ourselves. Well that's just that old lowest common denominator. Again, it's really. infectious, evidently from Ella to Z magazine to. It's just let's just bury the hatchet and just settle down and let's just retreat back into good old leftism that never went anywhere. But now. It seems to have come back to life if you want to put. It that way. Stretched the word a little bit. Including for example, and this just. This how. Uncritical, this can get if that isn't generally true enough across the board. Reference to the John Brown anti Klan. Committee I think this mostly in the South, but I'm not sure the you might remember the John Brown Book Club along with Prairie Fire. This was in the 70s as the as the movement of the 60s faded out and you had these. Marxist Leninist group, still hanging on. So now when I hear John Brown. It's always the name if you ask me, but that’s really. I think that just that's theritage of that. That's the pedigree that's Marxism, Leninism. If that isn't disgusting enough, are we just going to? Yeah, let's not have any divisions or disagreements. Anything goes, including that putrid type stuff. I don't. I think we got to be aware of that. Well, it's springtime, and sadly enough, one of the things that seems to me in recent years is the violent violence. Amps up is just a little bit of it. Let's see. Last Wednesday the 22nd 4 dead in northern Wisconsin, including a cop shooting spree there. And the big Cincinnati nightclub shooting late Saturday night. I think it was some like 18 people shot only one fatality so far. Several people blasting away. And Central Florida. Monday early yesterday. One dead, five others shot, including two young kids. It was a supposedly a domestic dispute thing that broke out and. Two of the people shot were children ages 7 and eight. Two cops in Miami were shot today in some undercover operation. And this a goodie. This a man talk about spring time Maryland high school student who was quote meticulously planning and quote a major Columbine type schools shooting. Big time massacre. She so this not. Totally gender oriented I guess. A funny sweet honors student is what she was according to people who knew her. Yeah, just and she was ratted out by her father who happened to look in her. Journal and saw a lot of plans to. OK, yeah, that's pretty sad. And Speaking of violence, I guess the gloves are off even more. This thing which came out late last week about the. About the civilians bombed over 200 dead in northern Iraq. Well, we know that yeah, the invasion of Iraq in the 1st place. Thousands dead trillions spent only to create ISIS. So yeah, if anybody didn't know that. Yeah, there's some grim stuff going on. This one of the things that sort of came up out of nowhere, and it's a it's apparently a distinctly American phenomenon. The death rate for white adults. Is is something? And indeed, troubling after decades of steady decline, death, death rates for white middle-aged Americans has been climbing at a startling rate since 2000, and it's cause it's called by some this sharp increase. Deaths of despair and it a lot of that is suicides, drug overdoses, and. Alcohol related drinking yourself to death liver failure. All that. And surprisingly, similar for white men and women, especially those with the high school degree or less. And this the. The people protesting with their vote for Trump. And it really is a picture of hopelessness and, well, death, . It's a deep trend and it's yeah, there was of course a big economic turndown around 2008 or so now. But it seems like according to And, well, even the economists who've who've studied this. It's not so much. Economically driven, it's a sort of accumulated despair, sense of insignificance, sense of being disconnected. Yeah, what? How about that? Again, the increased social isolation. And this the piece that, well, several people have written about it. But no campaign slogan is going to solve this anytime soon. It only makes it worse, only underlines the. Particularly bad condition of folks like that and. The weakening of connections and relationships and the. Stress and so forth, and that's not a good picture. Meanwhile, of course, the old opioid crisis rampaging, and especially I don't know about especially, but I suppose it stands out a little bit in terms of rural America. Which heretofore wasn't thought of as. A place so susceptible, but by now. We certainly know that's not true. Piece in the New York Times. A little while. Ago overdoses are churning through agricultural pockets of America like. Like a plow through soil. To complete the metaphor. Well, yes, Carl told you it's 5413460645. And yeah, there’s some interesting news along with all this horrible news, It’s interesting, plus or minus, I guess, but. You know, I've been certainly referring to the very grave air pollution. Conditions in China, especially Eastern China, and there's a story. On Saturday, this the New York Times story about how they're they were trying. They're announcing that they’re putting in. Certain things to try to reduce the pollution. There's the smog, but it's being checked by climate change. Specifically, there's a dearth of wind. Especially in northern China. And of course, it just blows the stuff around. It doesn't. It's not like it gets rid of. It, but it. Can prevent the most severe pockets of. Really death causing pollution. It’s just really getting awful. And now whatever measure is in there, I think a lot of them sound like they're quite cosmetic in the 1st place, but. They don't work because these most populous cities are poorly ventilated. Let's put it that way. Nature is not helping. The usual winds. Ain't there no more so? Very bad news. And here's some absurd news this was. See what day was this? Oh yeah, Sunday. New York Times. Two days ago, what you can do about climate change. And it might have been subtitled and what you can't do according to. The writers here. Well, what can just one concerned person do. And yeah, drive a. Yeah, this just full of nonsense. The biggest thing you can do nothing you could do would come close to doing as much as driving a fuel efficient vehicle. Because they're not. Going to tell you. That building fuel efficient vehicle in the 1st place is hideously polluting. And yeah, it doesn't pollute as much as some other cars. I mean, obviously it doesn't. These claims have some basis in fact, but. Yeah, and it actually says a car that gets better gas mileage cuts greenhouse gas emissions. Come again, the car that gets better gas mileage cuts greenhouse gas emissions. No, it doesn't. It adds. It adds admissions, it just doesn't add as much. It’s a slower growth, but you can't say it. Cuts does the car take in noxious gases or something as it drives? I don't think so. Yeah, this the usual little all-purpose shell game thing and all the usual deals. You know what you can do? Replace your light bulbs and so forth, I mean. Absolutely ruled out is tackling the machine that's killing everything and has been since. The industrial revolution over 200 years ago. No, no, you just keep on you. You can be the perfect green consumer and that'll work, isn't it working? Oh no, it's actually not, is it? Well, up in Seattle and here's your it's a technology thing when you think about it, but. There's been since February 9th electrical failure. In their water treatment. Plants up there such that millions of gallons of raw sewage and untreated runoff have poured into. The nation's second largest estuary. Yeah, the message sewage treatment plant has had equipment failures and so it's only partially been working and it's been a disaster. February 9th we're still. Yeah, 30 million gallons of raw sewage. So far poured into Puget Sound. There hasn't been a treatment plant spill of this magnitude in recent memory. And it sort of makes you think of Fukushima. Yeah, and when you're going to fix it, I mean, it's well, it's not. As relatively irreversible as Fukushima, but. Yeah, they hope to bring this plant to full operations by the end of April. They hope and whatever we still in March, aren't we? And a companion story. AP story Saturday the 26th about whales study finds orcas collecting dangerous bacteria in water. Yeah, this this doesn't even talk about the what happened in Seattle. I mean this. Example, what they're pumping into the water in up in Victoria, BC. Not that far from Seattle anyway. Yeah, there, there's all kinds of bacteriand fungi. Being inhaled by orca whales. Including salmonelland a whole bunch of stuff. They've been sampling. Orcas breath And revealing microbes capable of causing diseases. Some are resistant to multiple antibiotics, frequently by people and animal. So which suggests human waste is contaminated, contaminating the marine environment in. In new ways according to the Journal Scientific Reports. Yeah, that's where they're. They're getting a read on that, and it's not good. And some people think specifically Michael Osterholm and Mark Olshaker. This today's New York Times. No, I'm sorry Saturdays. New York Times, the 20. 5th that the biggest threat around. It's not necessarily the one that comes to mind. 1st and this has to do with the. What they call the microbe wars. It's the infectious disease. Is the real threat to national security, they assert? And MERS. Evicting people on the Arabian Peninsula. Yellow fever and Brazil's largest cities. On and on, it's got a big list which I've referred to pretty often. And three years after the 2014 Ebola crisis, still no vaccine or a plan for how to deploy one, even if they had one. To prevent future outbreaks. And then there is the conscious part of it, or potentially conscious bioterrorist part of. To go ahead and introduce. These microbes. Goose the whole thing along. As if it isn't unhealthy enough, just the way it functions without bad actors getting in there. Arctic sea ice dips to record low for the winter. Yet another record for low levels of sea ice. A signal of an overheating planet. Yeah, that's extent of floating ice now. Hit a new low. It's what they have left less than 6,000,000 square miles. That's above the areabout the size of Maine below last year's record. So all this is pretty stark. Yeah, more regions very likely will be completely ice free year round. We're losing the ice in all seasons now. Said the director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center. Yeah, it's up there with what's going on in the Antarctic. Which also hit a record low mark in terms of how much ice there is. Up there or down there I mean. Well and we got the usual the usual stuff about. Outbreaks of listeria. About a week ago deaths from Listeria, in terms of cheese, was getting out there and. And the typical recall. Also, earlier in the month, Mercedes recalling 1,000,000 vehicles. Over a starter part that can get overheating and set fire to the car. Traffic deaths nationwide hit the highest level since 2007. Rose 6% in 2016, yeah. Well, let's see here. I'm not going to. I think we'll do the Action News on the other side, but. Just get to one thing, maybe this. Maybecause it's all about me, or at least a little bit of the 26th. ITS communique I referred last week. I do believe to the 25th ideas communique it's once again it's funny how these people pride themselves on we don't care what anyone thinks we're not. We don't see any movement. We don't want no movement. We're not trying to persuade, and yet they cannot stop talking about how wonderful they are and part of this latest one. This new one is about the vast cover up by the mediabout their supposed many exploits. You know, it's really quite a conspiracy. You can't really find any media information like I think that points to things as having happened and or having happened at the hands of ITS people. People that have been injured or killed. I think there are only two deaths that they claim. I think that's yeah, going back to. 2011 or 2012 but. Yeah, they just are very upset about how they're not getting enough coverage. And they also is a bit. I cut my eye, among other things. Some of this exactly what they always pump out. And they're going. They referred to. Somebody named Joaquin Garcia who's in jail. He's a leftist of some kind and part of this. Part of this community is whining about how. The informal Anarchist Federation and its subgroups around the world, or at least around Europe and to some degree other places get all kinds of coverage. And they don't. So it's really come on guys. I mean, you're just giving it away. You just. You know, like whining, stupid. If you really don't care, then shut up. You know, I meanyway they referring to this fellow one, Joaquin Garcia. They write in this communique when you get out of the clink, maybe we can contract you to hit that senile hippie szerszen. It should be a piece of cake to find him and hit him. And you were sure to find him riding his bike in the parks of Oregon. I am terrified I've never been so terrified. Yeah, well or I would be if I weren't a senile hippie. I probably would be terrified, but. What a joke these people are. They're just making themselves look ever more stupid. Yeah, this. I'm just going to leave it. At that's. What can I say? It's a good thing I'm heavily armed at all times and I might just start shooting out of senility or I don't know. I don't think hippies are too, yeah? Well, that's the point they're making, right? I'm a simple target, an easy target because. That's pretty cool. Yep, there. And getting there, yeah, we got some good. We got some good Action News. Oh, and one other thing I'm going to mention this before the break. Alice and I were over at the coast Oregon coast on the. Weekend and we. Went to the Marine Science Center on Equinal Bay there in Newport. Pretty interesting, they've got really good exhibits. I think we both feel that I'm certainly no expert on. Museum type exhibits but. And they're not hiding things. They there was a display about hypoxiand how much that's. Increased off the Oregon coast since 2002. These are dead zones where basically there's little or no oxygen. In the water compared to what there was and this bad news for various species. As we know. And had one about invasive species or. References to the growing problem of invasive species. The growing problem of what's happening to the coral reefs. Up in the Pacific Northwest, we don't so often think about coral reefs. You think of that as more of a tropical thing. But and how marine biodiversity? Globally, is going down. But one display I thought this a little bit. And even this one was fairly honest, but they had one of the things you see first when you walk in is a pretty large. Exhibit about wave energy and how it works and the great potential. Power source than it is. I didn't know much about it, so it broke that down, but it also pointed out. That the best place to install the wave energy stuff the apparatus to get the energy is exactly where whales migrate in the spring and. Fall and it shows beneath the surface all the cables and different stuff. I mean, if you just went by it. On the surface you see these things floating and so forth, and it's sort of magic. I mean, I don't know anything about it, so, but then they show you that there's a lot of infrastructure and not too great for whales. Just then they were honest enough to point that out. If even if they seemed to be very pro wave energy. Got to have that energy. Got to keep doing all that stuff that should have never been started in the first place. Well, Sir, let's oh we've got the conjugal visitors. And even if I didn't like their music, I would have tried to work that in just because I love the title and they’re local, right, Carl?

Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, local favorites. The conjugal visitors.

Speaker 6: True OK?

Speaker 7: Meaning once again, like we made it once again.

Speaker 8: For my. It looks like we made it once again.

Speaker 7: Yes, it looks like we made it once again.

Speaker 8: A very extraordinary scene to those who don't understand but. What you have.

Speaker 7: Seen you must believe. If you can, if you can. And it looks like we made it once again. To the end.

Speaker 6: Hello we had a call off air about Earth first. So let's push on and just see what happens here. Oops something, going maybe this will be on there. And let's see.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 6: Yeah, let's take this. And then maybe.

Speaker 3: Yeah, we got.

Speaker 6: Talk about some.

Speaker 3: We got Curtis here in just a second.

Speaker 6: OK. And then we'll move up.

Speaker 3: There we go.

Speaker 6: Curtis are. You there, yeah? Yeah, how you doing?

Speaker 10: Good, how are you? I've been writing this. Sean Swain, the anarchist prisoner.

Speaker 6: Right, huh? Good for you.

Speaker 10: And I'm asking him. What would anarchist society look like? And the answer I keep getting is. That there needs to be like a 90. Percent die off. Of the population and go back to a nomadic lifestyle. And it just seems to be an oversimplification. I look at I consider myself a prude, holy and anarchist, and I'm looking at. You know, even the nomads would meet up once a year and exchange information at least. So I'm looking at. I'm thinking about mutual. Aid societies, but what so? What do you think of an? Anarchist society would look like.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that’s a good question, and I suppose you'd have all kinds of answers even from, say, green anarchy types or anarcho primitives. I mean, I would I would agree with Sean in a sense. I mean, I think that's to me. It's more the direction. We should go into get away from the unnatural population levels and population growth, but I don't. I mean, I just don't think you would even want to. Prescribe that as some sudden thing, or overnight thing. That just would mean the deaths of. Enormous numbers of people, but if your goal is to is to have an egalitarian face to face world, that would be a radically decentralized world. And if because for some of us, the well, let's just speak for myself. That is exactly the goal to get back to where. Were for a million or so years. Something like that anyway, where where it was actual communities, small groups that. That work together and live together and they weren't trying to run the world. They weren't trying to run big mass societies. They it wasn't anything like that. If you if you do want.

Speaker 10: I'm having what do you do with? What do you do with bad actors? You know, like you decide, you can't just exile people or I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with just exile and execute.

Speaker 6: Well, it seems that in banned society and hunter gatherer society, which is what I'm referring to, they did exile people, they would just kick them out of the group you can.

Speaker 5: Yeah, right?

Speaker 10: Right and leave them behind. That seems harsh.

Speaker 6: And we don't, sometimes we assume. That there's the level of pathology then that there is now, and maybe that's not so. In other words, I'm not saying everybody was perfect and there weren't no. Bad actors, as you put it, but now it's of course enormous reality. You know millions of people in prisons and all all the rest of it, but. You know, if you.

Speaker 10: I'm trying to come up with a way of rewarding people for good behavior.

Speaker 6: Sure, sure, and that's there's a whole lot of literature on that. You know, in terms of how do you keep a non hierarchical society from becoming complex and hierarchical and with a lot of division of Labor and reliance on experts in the whole 9 yards that we're stuck with now? Well, they’re conscious. That were employed in it's very cool reading if you ask me how they avoided that and how they would. Not let people assume power or get a big status or a big Rep. You know they would consciously work to keep that from happening to you. Knock that down when it started to appear very as I say, very conscious, but that's assuming that you have a group of functioning small society like that in which that happens.

Speaker 10: We are reading that.

Speaker 6: So obviously we have nothing like that now, but I think if you want to, if that's what you want, you figure out the ways to move. In that direction. Otherwise, what? What the anarchists? The classic leftist 19th century anarchist, and they some of them still do this to them. It's more of a question of. Well, they answer that the supposedly always answered question. Who's going to take out the garbage? Well, that's assuming that's assuming you have garbage and all the rest of it. I mean, that's assuming we're going to have the same old world we just self manage. It but. That's to me, that's no answer at all.

Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm reading about the Paris Commune or the experienced civil war, and it says that they elected. They would elect somebody to run the to manage for one year and they would just have a one year term because they just they needed someone to take it in a direction. I guess rather than just have a mob rule so they would have one person, a manager that would be elected for one year, then they would switch.

Speaker 6: And of course, it only lasted for a few months. That was a very extreme situation and. Such as some indigenous people have found themselves when they went from bands to tribe, tribal organization in the face of the onslaught, they went to measures that they wouldn't have taken otherwise. I think most people see it that way. But I'm talking about if you're asking what would it look like in terms of the future perfect, not perfect, but the future society. That would be anarchist thing in every respect. And then you. You again, you're not trying to figure out how to run this world. You want an utterly different world.

Speaker 10: Well, one more thing, and then I'll. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but what? What I'm looking at too is the . We used to there used. To be a bulletin board in every grocery store. And I'm looking at it as. Like At the farmers markets, you would go to the farmers market to find information. Of and there would be someone there that had information of where you would get the supplies that you needed and direct you in direction. Or I mean people would just leave. Notices that, hey, I've got this. And so I'm just going back to the basics would be the grocery store bulletin board. Type of thing and I don't know if that makes sense and expand from there.

Speaker 6: Well yeah, that's disappeared right? Because everybody's on their iPhone and they're doing it in isolation. They just go online. But what if you don't want stores? What if you don't want buying and selling? What if you? Don't want the whole. Grid all of this stuff which. Takes us further from. Community, that's.

Speaker 10: Well, even if you're going to share. Though you'd notice.

Speaker 6: Well, sure, yeah, we live.

Speaker 10: Notify people that you have something to share.

Speaker 6: Right, right? Yeah, that’s a little closer. I mean, were moving away from that. And yeah, as you point out that whatever happened to that? It's the, but it's disappearing in the. You can see the direction it's going in and I think people start to untangle the whole thing and they realize you're. You're dealing with a whole lot of stuff. It didn't happen overnight.

Speaker 10: Yeah, I think. The localization movement is a step in the right direction.

Speaker 6: Well, yeah it can be. Yeah, that's for example. In Italy and France, yeah, provided it keeps going. I mean it's because yeah, I think you it implies a direction obviously and then. Yeah, that's it's got some potential if people. You know, are honest and serious. You can see the obstacles almost instantly. All the traps well turn it into a political party or all these different ways to keep it as is. As a mild reform deal, and it goes nowhere. Or you can see the logic of it. I was thinking of I mentioned just by the way, Marco Kaminis, who's now free, and he's been in the Swiss. Prison for decades, he started out as anti nukes person and then he realized it isn't just nukes, it's the whole industrial deal. It just goes much deeper and then he so his his own thinking evolved and got more radical.

Speaker 10: Yeah, that's where oppression. Starts with.

Speaker 6: Well, you can see if you followed the thread then there you are and it's. It's a big challenge. Thanks for calling Curtis.

Speaker 10: All right, thank you.

Speaker 6: Take care. Alrighty, here's some action briefs. Some short deals reported last week about the Allegheny County Jail. In Pittsburgh, there was a city in city in strike, about conditions especially. The lack of any medical care. One of the worst in the country in that sense. And anyway, there were a couple of noise demonstrations that followed that and I think right after that. This was March 18th when that happened. That during the second noise demonstration, someone or a group of people apparently broke several windows at the jail and smashed out the windows of some of the police cars in a parking lot. So that jumped out so we got another call.

Speaker 3: Yeah we do, this.

Speaker 6: Great great hey hi what's up?

Speaker 9: Hi John. So thanks for that answer to the previous callers question. It's always good to take it back down to. You know the assumptions that people are making.

Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks.

Speaker 9: We do want a completely different thing than what's going on now, just not how to fix this. So I've been rereading nature and madness by Paul Sheppard.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah.

Speaker 9: I think last week someone asked you about books to read and Paul Sheppard is certainly a great. Place to start.

Speaker 6: I think so.

Speaker 9: And this may seem fairly trivial, but. It really struck a chord with me. I'm going to read just a couple of sentences here, pet keeping virtually a civilized institution is an abyss of covert, covert, and unconscious use of animals in the service of psychological needs lost over his play and companionship. And I see what he's saying. But I have two cats that I. Love very much and. Give me a lot of comfort and companionship, so it's I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. I mean, we are obviously estranged from nature, but I love my cats.

Speaker 6: I heard that yeah, it's yeah that can be. I don't know, It’s just one of those, maybe. I guess it's a contradiction. We you have a. A very clear critique of domestication. Well, we're all domesticated and we all need some companionship and affection. And I don't know I’m sure. You know, again, there would be people that say that's just tedious. You know you’re a complete hypocrite if you if you. Had a cat or a dog. We have a dog.

Speaker 9: And they come and go. They go outside. And they kill mice and stuff and.

Speaker 6: Right and cats? They always say they're they've domesticated their humans. You know it's not the other way around.

Speaker 9: I'd like to think of them as. As companions and . They don't do work for me.

Speaker 6: Right, right, right. No, they got a good deal in some ways, but it's.

Speaker 9: They do. They have found a good way to be with us.

Speaker 6: And dogs, as it's been pointed out there was a a Co domestication. Dynamic of it. Li think that's the reigning ideabout that dogs came to the humans and the humans came to the dogs and they had some beneficial. Mutual stuff, they each gave something. It's a watchdog feature or whatever it might be and. Vice versand. You know it wasn't so much at all, like evidently like domesticating cattle or. Or what have you, goats? They just rounded him up and broke him as they say, breaking a horse. You know that's not a free. There's no mutual thing about it, .

Speaker 9: Yeah, I feel like there's less of a control. Thing going on. Yeah, I don't know. I just wanted to get your. Thoughts on that?

Speaker 6: None of this so pure, I guess as far as. That goes. Glad you brought that up, great.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

Speaker 9: All all praise and respect for John Brown and the curse on anyone who. Takes his name in vain.

Speaker 6: There you go, yeah, you can appropriate somebody's name and. You know, come up with something quite a lot different than the original. I'm glad you mentioned that.

Speaker 9: Yeah indeed all right. Thanks John.

Speaker 6: Take care man.

Speaker 9: Right?

Speaker 6: OK, onward two with the. Thanks in briefs here. Although I'm glad for the interruption authorities in South Dakotand Iowa confirmed. Last Tuesday that somebody has been messing with the pipeline. The different parts of the Dakotaccess pipeline. Empty sections, well most of it's empty still at this point. But blowtorch burning holes through there. And a couple of counties and a couple of different states. And Thursday. Last Thursday the 23rd. In Akatsuka Outlaw Chiapas I know I'm murdering that one, but a town in Chiapas. There was a March demanding water. And that well residence there. This a. The municipal. Demo where they went to the municipal water and drinking water system and converting that into English and they got no response. They were getting nothing and so they occupied the town hall, set fire to the entrance, several offices and a car they found parked outside and they even captured some of these. What are bureaucrats? So they were not taking nothing for answer, just they were not. They were not too happy. Friday the 24th and Sofia, Bulgaria. There was a protest that also got interested. Interesting over unpaid wages at the front of Max Telecom. The office of Max Telecom's fourth biggest Bulgarian cell phone operator. 150 people were not being paid. Add baby seeds to building. And blocked the road. And stormed the place. The management had to flee. So they stepped it up too. And also on the 24th last Friday we the partisanarchists take responsibility for the symbolic attack on the building of the expectorate. Inspectorate, sorry of the Ministry of Taxes for the Republic of Belarus. In the Gomel Region 2 mulitas. Thrown in the window. One of the offices in. Yeah, there was a there was a huge amount of support apparently and they pointed out attacking any specific building isn't the point any. Any building would have done because they were aware of the of the depth of this thing. People in Belarus crushed by economic extortion. So they're down on taxes and outraged. OK, Sunday the 26th of victory for 105 migrant workers. Looks in the cards following a two week occupation of Samaris Tower in Paris. They were demanding that these 105 and another 23 be given. Full rights at work. This of course is a migrant thing. They want some legal regularization and they. And so they moved it up to a takeover. Hamburg when people are pumping it up already three months away from the summit in June. And yeah, some people are champing at the bit. And along those lines on the 26th we attacked the police station in the green. Strauss in Hamburg, sit. Set the vans on fire. The police vans. In the yard, and there's a photo of a bunch of. Smoking burnout hooks Last night in Paris, three cops injured lots of arrests after cops killed a Chinese father of four Sunday night. I bet that went on tonight. As well, but I don't really know. OK. Oh man, she's quickly running out of time. Yeah, well. All is not lost we do have some time and. The Who knows somebody might call again. Especially if we hang up the. Phone I. They never catch Carl at anything. Oh boy, put this on the counter. Well, the some of these theme parks. There's a piece Sunday in the LA Times about Knott's Berry Farm down in Southern California. They're joining the trend. The Knotts Berry Farm never been there. Ever been there. Knotts Berry farm.

Speaker 3: No, but I've been near there.

Speaker 6: Orange County isn't it. Well, there's the trend is computer simulated thrills. You just. It's a VR deal. It's a virtual world. Mirrors instead of carpenters and welders making rides you can go on the roller coaster or something and just. ***** ** the thing reality headsets.

Speaker 3: Roller coasters are dangerous.

Speaker 6: They are. I mean, you could. Why even go to this place? What what's? What's the point?

Speaker 3: Just you could get killed just driving.

Speaker 6: There you go, there you go. It's a good reason to just sit on your couch, get fat and stupid, and imagine you're having fun. All right, and Cliff told me. Sent me this thing, Elon Musk. Good old Tesla. Rocket guy and everything. Well, he's got a new thing. His latest venture brain computer interface company called Neuralink. This today at the Wired website. It's called. Yeah, it's called Neuralink. It is a neural lace technology. Symbiotic union of humans and machines. That's what you got to have. That's where we're going. Yeah, the good old interface. That melds us with the machine. And thank you. You know who you are. Self-driving Uber crashes in Tempe last Friday by the way. Yeah, everything is so slick and. And perfect and so forth. But it actually isn't, and I was surprised by this one. Ross douthat. I think that's the way you said. well known liberal columnist New York Times, he, he writes the usual liberal stuff he wrote a thing. This back on the 12th Sunday the 12th called RESIST the Internet. You are enslaved to the Internet. And it goes on and on like that we got to. Take back control. We need a social and political movement. And then it gets a little vague. A digital temperance movement, if you will. Yeah, we could. We have to. We have to pull back. Our devices we shall always have with us, but we can choose the terms. It's it just Peters out like yeah, right? So it's just another you. You come on strong, but then it's just like don't there's too much TV watch and we'll watch less TV. You know you're not even thinking about why that is, how that. Mounts and mounts and why I mean, just it's just silly, but at least. But it's got a great start. We have nothing to lose but our electronic chains. Pretty hot there, pretty strong and here's something that ties it together. We still have a minute or two here. This was interesting. Huffington Post last week. Shared prosperity principle. And this addresses the idea that we've got this great. We have these technological advances and they're going to help. The economic status of people are going to help out. With the day-to-day. Reality of do you have enough money ? Are you going to be OK? Not quite, this the aerial con. Interview with the MIT Tech review. This some interesting stuff. That tech advances have exacerbated the problem of inequality. In this MIT journal, economist Eric Brynelson said, my reading of the data is that technology is the main driver of the recent increases inequality. It's the biggest factor. So yeah, that's a something to keep in mind, because then I fall into this too. You can treat these things as wacko things. In the sense in a vacuum, or at least a partial vacuum. But you don't link it up with more everyday life stuff. Wow, it's actually driving. The deepening. That's pretty amazing. Well, it's the other. There’s a lot of. Recharging hoverboard? Caused a deadly house fire in Pennsylvania little while back. 3 year old girl was killed. And that's because the batteries in the hoverboard burst into flames., oh. OK well. Not time to go into details on anything here, but. This an interesting piece. In the latest New York Times Book Review, the Sunday edition of the. Times 2 days ago by Ray Kurzweil and he's reviewing 2 books. One is Luke doornails. Thinking machines the quest for artificial intelligence and where it's taking. Us next and. Heart of the machine. Our future in the world of artificial emotional intelligence. And what do ? Everything is fine and these fantastic claims are just the beginning and unprecedented acceleration of progress. Everything's cool. There'll be a net positive gain for humanity. In every way, employment and youth can think of 1. It will better because of an interaction between our emotional lives and our technology. This will be splendid. Yeah, it will be great. Virtual reality. Links to sexual applications that will enhance sexual experiences. Wow, this guy's just nuts. We will merge with our technology, though the latter book heart of the Machine, Richard Young says we will merge with our technology. Merging is our best strategy for ensuring a beneficial outcome. And of course, Kurtzweil is all over that. The best strategy is just to give up and just surrender to the machine. Yeah, now that's. I think that's probably pretty valid. That's probably right. Oh my God. Well, more and more people seeing through this and not actually getting so happy with what they quote experience in the. In the technological world, in the in the world. In the society that's becoming more technological by the minute. One can see the costs the toll on every level. Well, as I say. Mr Cliff will be here. He will join Carl Me next week. That'll be cool. He always brings in stuff because he knows that old tech stuff. like Carl, he knows. It so join us and please do take care.

03-21-2017

[audio]

Marco Camenisch is finally out! World Happiness Day, US not so happy. Who is healthy? Maldives sinking. Latest insane tech developments. More on Harari's Homo Deus book of horrors. Sleep in America. Stem cell treat- ments blind 3, selfies kill more in 2015 that shark attacks School shooting in France. Is anarchy confronting reality? Resistance briefs.

03-14-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Portland's anarchist pothole brigade. Alexander Kerensky in 1917 and 1966. Ted K's new book: Anti-Tech Revolution: Why and How. James Oberhelm, Irish art provocateur. Who's voting anymore? London air worse than Beijing's. Alaska's Cook Inlet gas line leaking since December. The Void: "truly beyond VR." Action news, one call.

03-07-2017

[audio]

Tabling at ELaw with Ian; good stuff. Read out "Death." Anarchy Radio is "gossip and NYT reprints"(?) YouTube: a billion hours a day. Bird flu is back, French towns "fade", zines not obsolete despite internet (see Black and Green Review!) Action news. Irresistible: The Rise of Addictive Technology" as social media produce more social isolation. Sleeplessness, spills, Colorado River declining, two calls.

02-28-2017

[audio]

Local Girl Scout scandal: need for AUTHORITY. Facebook calls for "global community" (read integration into world Machine). Age of Disbelief, More Dead Cops, Peak Sand? Walden Pond "stillness" from a video game; Toxic online "discourse" - Rx is more tech- nology; sense of smell - AI's algorithms are better. Toys spying on families. Anti-authori- tarian resistance - not nihilist enough?

02-21-2017

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. How urbanism fails globally. How fixating on Trump fuels science and technology. Homo Deus, another hideous, tech-worshipping book. Scurvy makes a comeback in a disease-ridden world. Older Americans hooked on mind drugs. Elon Musk on human-machine interface: needed to keep up! Are egoists and nihilist anarchist? Resistance briefs, three calls.

02-14-2017

[audio]

The Brilliant on Atassa/eco-nihilism. "Thoughts of the Week on Anarcho- transhumanism"? Zoltan's "Immortality Tour." Chemical pollution in extreme ocean depths, biodiversity expiring, addiction as a condition of society. Antarctic ice shelf nears end. Work of LaylabdelRahim, Chellis Glen- denning, Zygmunt Bauman. Action news, seven calls (two off-air).

Speaker 2: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read, and we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 1: Cape Cape Www.bbbawbh88 1111

Speaker 3: Kwva, Eugene. That's right, you're listening to KWVA Eugene. It's time for anarchy radio. Right now I'm in the studio here with John. The phone number is 541-346-0645 and we have some. Music from Shostakovich to start the evening out.

Speaker 4: Happy Valentine's Day to one and all. Anarchy Radio February 14th and that was just a COVID 7th. The Leningrad Symphony having to do with the Siege of Leningrad, 1942. 44 in which 2/3 of a million people died. I heard this just recently that the story goes. There was a German veteran visiting after the war. And by the way, at the premier shows the COVICH had the music. Blasted out toward the surrounding Nazi German troops. And this veteran said when we heard that music, we knew we'd never break the siege. So that's cool. And now I switched to something way less heroic. Let us say few words. Not that much going on, so I'm going to spend a little time. On this. Somewhat reluctantly, they're brilliant. They podcast the brilliant #41 all about. The Atassa collection. It's apparently ongoing journal. It's now it's available from little black cart, their latest commodity. There were there are three people discussing it, Aragorn, Bellamy, and somebody named. I forgot his name. He said almost nothing. He didn't get his two cents in very often, but. Anyway, they're describing they're discussing what is in this collection called Atassa. I think they're I don't know. Maybe 10 pieces in there. And for most of the hour. It's informative, like a book report. There's not much judgment going on. They're bringing cloth trays somewhat. Somewhat a little off base in terms of his theory. Of the state or resistance to the formation of the state, but anyway. It brings the peace in question. Brings in clusters stress on violence at the society and the state. That's the OR society against the state. Where the argument, roughly speaking, is. Based on the Yanomami and Yanomami and Amazonia in Brazil. But that's what heads off the state's pretty much ultra violence as they described it. I'm not going to go into how. How accurate they had it, or how accurate the article has it in terms of the ideas of clusters. But because for one thing you a little bit handicapped, Bellamy said he's ignorant of. Anthropology and Ergon says he's hostile to anthropology, so. How much? Confidence can you have in that area but. Anyway, they're trying to stress the violence part and to would justify. The eco extremist extremist that's this. ITS syndrome should have said that in the 1st place those who don't know. We've been getting these communiques. The Florida rhetoric. Over the past few years. And so they’re discussing this as a collection. The first collection of articles about and by. Some of these? Eco extremist eco nihilist. Whatever, they happen to be called now. And as I say, it's just the the meandering discussion telling you what this article is or that article is, and. Anyway, they getting a little bored with it and but toward the end now it comes clear. Yeah, they finally take off the gloves. And this book is great. The eco extremist people are great because they're nihilists, they're cool because they're nihilists after all. I mean, it's just amazingly uncritical. Listen just for a moment. Part of part of this. Thing to me is. We don't know if you take these these anonymous statements from people at face value. Or why would you is what I'm getting it? Did they do these different attacks? These setting of bombs or injuring people and so forth? We don't really know that. In fact, we don't even know if they actually happened. Because in some of these, in some of the commentary they take pains to say, well, you'll never find it in the media because the media covered it up so well. Possibly they did. I'm not saying they didn't, but. It’s a little murky. It's a little hard to. Say exactly what is going on. What are they claiming and so forth. Well, and the two punch line things are. Bottom line things, Eric Gorn says he's all for this collection. It's wonderful because it expands. What is anarchism? Which is odd, first of all because. These people are explicitly anti anarchists and time after time they say they're not anarchists and. So how are they actually anarchists? I think this stuff is pretty hideous to tell you the truth, it's more like fascist. And it does remind me of denialism right before right after World War One, which starts to become fascist, especially in Italy. This glorification of indiscriminate violence. We've we've seen that before in other places. I'm not equating the two, but. So that's why this collection is so important. I just get this overall picture to tell you the truth. If you get post modernism egoism. And nihilism. What you get out of that? Stew is garbage in my view and the one closing thing. Bellamy argues that only pacifists. If unless you're a card carrying very, very consistent pessimist, you can't condemn this. You cannot. Trash the eco extremist. Theory and practice. No way. And this somewhat based, or at least it's related to 1 to one article I've I have. I saw this before some time ago, in which somebody I'm sort of guessing at the name, so I won't bring it up. Lists a whole bunch of anarchist acts. Acts of violence mostly in the night in the 1800s. In which. Pretty much bystanders were injured or even killed, and so therefore. What's wrong with these people doing it? Well, for one thing, they didn't glorify it. And in some of these cases, if you're if you're attacking the stock market or a super expensive restaurant in Paris or something like that. You could also argue that they're not exactly the same as the postal worker or somebody walking down the sidewalk. It’s a little bit loose with the facts, I think. And one is reminded too that. It is possible to take action without killing people. Look at the Earth Liberation Front or the. Animal Liberation Front and their main. Litmus test is. If it involves taking of life, it ain't us. We don't do that, and all the government could do for years and years is to say, well, it will sooner or later somebody's going to get hurt. Well, it's never happened so that rings rather hollow. But that they didn't want to bring up the case of these actual existing anarchists who. Who have the courage to do things without? Without just getting all giddy and happy if they if they want to kill more people, because after all they're all civilized, so they're just dude doesn't deserve to die. And this a great thing. This really this like this a new low. For these people, it's just really. Yeah, I’m. That's enough of that. And as Carl said, this 541-346-0645. This not a podcast. This live radio. So call in and people pretty much never do because it's. I think it's too appalling to try to defend it. Well, another thing I think this going to be, we're going to be getting into this a little bit more down the road. I predict this something. Black and Green Review gang. That we've started to discuss a little bit and it's. What I understand as Guy Macpherson's latest hypothesis. And it's basically that we are really close to the end, even very close to the end of human extinction. He says it's now likely by 2026. So that's less than 10 years. And he says when? If the ice keeps thawing and you get more and more ice free periods in the Arctic to where it's totally ice free, not just in the summer, there's going to be an unbelievably massive release of methane from the sea floor, because it won't be. It won't be held down by ice and temperature, it'll just it'll create. The catastrophic spike. In the temperature. And there'll be crop failures. They'll the civilization will collapse. It's going to be just all over and. I think Jim Person calls himself anti civilization. This a this a thesis that maybe more. People will comment upon I have to say on just off the top of my head it reminds me of the peak oil folks. And by the way, I'm not saying that Guy MacPherson is wrong that this ain't going to happen. I don't know it could happen. But the peak oil people we're at the imminent point of fossil fuels is over. We're now on the downhill slope, getting more and more. Vertical that slope where just going to run out of the fossil fuels and then everything will stop because it depends on fossil fuels to keep the whole machine going. And it I don't know I might, so my first. feel about it. It's the same desperate desire to have. Some external Deus Ex machina thing come in. From off stage and just come out and just do our work for us, which I always tend to suspect. And but again he might be right, he might be. That's just what's going to happen. With the thawing of the Holarctic. Well, one other thing, just going on here a little bit in the anarchist corner. Not talking about news at all here at the moment, the thought of the week at Anarchist News is interesting. In a depressing way, and it's not worth much talking about it, but thoughts on anarcho, transhumanism? Yeah, what do you think about transhumanism and? Yeah, what do? You think about technology and will it save us? We'd like to briefly have you briefly share your journey to transhumanism. And of course, somebody points out there's nothing anarco about it, there's nothing. This the desire to. For the machines to take over completely and for humans to become machines. And all these other. Massively alienated fantasies that these people have. So that's that. Seems like if you have to get to this backward place, maybe you should drop this weekly themes weekly question, or topic that invite people to Mull over. It's just it's quite stupid to. And by the way, that's. And it sets up the piece in this past weekends. New York Times magazine, February 12th. Pretty good, it's about my own body. OK. Zoltan Istvan yeah the immortality campaign he was running for president last year. 600 miles on the stump with the transhumanist candidate for president by Mark O'Connell. This really hilarious. Great picture of him, he's he looks like a frat boy. Actually very nice friendly person. I mean he's not a doesn't act like a jerk but. The writer doesn't have a lot of. He thinks it's preposterous, but gets he gets a laugh out of it. He's they've got this bus. It's called the immortality bus. It looks like a coffin, actually, although. Their whole their whole thing, his his main emphasis. And as it is for a few others of the transhumanist thing. Is that we can live forever. No reason we can't live forever. Science is just cracking it and it's soon we'll live forever. In fact, it's criminal if you're not on board because you're, you're preventing various people from becoming immortal if you. Are trying to delay this. This a Ray Kurzweil thing. He's he's way into the Kurzweil. Emphasis in transhumanism. Yeah, it's a long article. It's pretty amusing he and I had this debate a couple of years ago at Stanford. And he's he really does. Like any mediattention. I don't know how anyone who was there and this. Is a little. You could just stick on my part. But I thought everything he said and refuted utterly and just mopped up the floor with the guy. But he was all happy afterwards and. Happy to have the event and shook my hand everything. I just thought Wow did you, were you here for this debate? Anyway, the article is pretty funny and it's I don't know what. With Zoltan thought about us not literally friendly, but it has a lot of factual stuff too, though I guess. Somebody here, eh somebody?

Speaker 5: Excellent hey John.

Speaker 3: Yeah we have.

Speaker 4: Great great oh how you doing?

Speaker 5: I'm doing all right, so I heard something on NPR which does unwittingly report interesting information from time to time. About shrimp, like crustaceans that live at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. The deepest. Depth of the ocean currently being loaded with PCB's and other. Toxic substances, so apparently those things are fall to the deepest depths and then get concentrated so.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I saw that as a journal article and then carried by the Guardian. Yeah, terribly scary because it was thought that that depth thousands of feet there's no pollution down there. There's nothing that could really get going.

Speaker 5: But apparently it's just extremely high concentration.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, this just a new horror that came out of nowhere. And yeah, they've apparently. Verified this and it's. Also, it's not just the Mariana Straits, It’s other depths of the ocean that were had to be. You know, somewhat proof against the pollution, and it's not at all the case.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we have. We have left no stone unturned.

Speaker 4: Yeah, sadly enough, sadly enough.

Speaker 5: All right, well, all right carry on John.

Speaker 4: OK man you.

Speaker 5: Too OK bye.

Speaker 4: I guess connected to that big story a week ago about the crack in the Antarctic ice shelf that has something to do with the ocean. Which grew 17 miles in the last two months, and they're talking about. Nearing its final act, this the 4th largest ice shelf. And getting real close to the final full break. And it's not the only one that's showing cracks, it's melting underneath these things more or less, always as I understand. They're they're melt theat, the weight. Causes the temperature to be even more magnified the. The higher temperatures that they're seeing. Not as much as the Arctic, but they're on their. Way as well. It's called the Larsen B ice shelf. These are warning signs that the remnant is disintegrating. It's becoming unstable and breaking up bad news for our planet. It’s been there for 10,000 years. Soon it'll be gone according to somebody from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Is that a? Notice or something somebody else calling. We had somebody last week you kept calling but it just that made a lot of sense. Maybe we'll, maybe we'll have better luck. This time, yeah, I think this probably a judgment call from yeah. All right hello there. Hey wait. OK, oops.

Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta, I gotta give me. It to press all the. Buttons this non Raven.

Speaker 6: Stuff selling into my new life so it's nice to finally get a chance to. Talk to you.

Speaker 4: Oh great great hey, how you doing after the move?

Speaker 6: Yeah all good very British weather we're having right now in California, but I'm looking forward to hotter and better things.

Speaker 4: Yeah, sure. Yeah, from drought to flooding.

Speaker 6: So you. Yeah, lots of floods at the moment yeah, so I've got a couple of points for you and your listeners today. The first is to remind people that as you kindly mentioned a few weeks ago, discussions are open at antidev.org anti hyphen. Org and I'd really like to welcome you. Know anyone who's listening to contribute to those discussions and to emphasize that they’re not there just to be read and consumed but to be joined so. If anyone wants to discuss a topic and there's no thread, or if there is and they feel it's not getting enough attention, they should just, go ahead and make a new thread to prompt people.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 6: My second point is like a question for you. Could you perhaps highlight what are the two or three most important reasons why you're comparatively more hopeful than other anti civil broadcasters about the possibility for like a widespread rejection of civilization? You talk from time to time about a gathering momentum or you hint. That's it, and obviously your last book was about hope, and that's something that comes up so you're certainly a lot more optimistic than me. Maybe you can tell me what am I missing and I’m happy to take my answer off here.

Speaker 4: OK, thanks LR. Thanks for calling and yeah good heads up there about antihyphensiv.org. Well, I'm becoming. I'm becoming a little less hopeful to tell you the truth. And partly because our own scene is in sad shape, but. I don't know. I think partly and probably said this before, but just sort of a generational thing in part, just personally, because the movement of the 60s came out of nowhere. And there certainly are a lot of reasons. Graphics darkly presented. Realities that cause people to. Two more questions. This whole ball game then then we see. Or allowed to see. So I'm not I'm not. I'm not so quick to just rule it out it's an open question. It may never happen. There may not be any break there may people just things will just become. Worse, on every level, and that could just keep on happening and then and then the environmental thing will. We'll keep going as it does, and. That will be the that'll be it, but. But I do. I still hold out hope if the H word that. Quite possibly people more people will say, this really this really a dead end St here isn't it? You know and for our kids and so forth. It's not, there's no. There is no defensible thing. There just isn't. You know, I mean. And when you run out of the alternative ways of looking at it, for example, the left. Which is really a joke which has contributed to the crisis, the general crisis we're in. Then you may start to question things at the real depth at the level of civilization and domestication it I just think it's not inconceivable. Given again, that everything. Really, at least on the face of it, argues for doing just that. There is no. What are thealthy signs, what's? Oh, it's not so bad. You know. There's look at this. This going well and. So for the well, you don't. You don't see that, you just don't see it. Sadly enough, It’s not there. Anyway, that's very vague thing, and It’s vague with me, but. I think surrendering and just falling into despair and cynicism is no answer at all. So I don't think. We have a lot. Of choice, but thank you for calling on Raven. Guess we have another caller. Yeah, that's probably not that cogent or persuasive, but it's. Maybe it's good to hear a somewhat different take on it, personally.

Speaker 3: This Dave.

Speaker 4: OK Dave, how are you? Are you there old boy? Hello Dave, can you hear us?

Speaker 2: I yeah.

Speaker 4: OK, go ahead.

Speaker 7: Over the past few months I've noticed you do bring up the subject of peak oil and one of the dynamics of peak oil that people are missing now. Is the question of energy return on energy invested and? Have you ever heard of that?

Speaker 4: Sort of, I’m not, I don't.

Speaker 7: Part it.

Speaker 4: I couldn't tell you. Exactly what it means.

Speaker 7: Well, well, It’s an interesting aspect, and I think that's really what has thrown the monkey wrench in the works. As far as the idea of peak oil, so I mean I would anybody interested in peak oil look up energy return on energy invested and what that amounts to is that it takes. Energy to get energy and the amount of energy we're using today is much greater than it was twenty 30-40 years ago. And as that diminishes, we're going to have a harder and harder time to get the energy to use, which is the net energy at the user end. There's plenty there. It's just that it takes a lot more energy to get it refine it and put it in your tank, so to speak.

Speaker 4: OK, so it's just gets so very much more expensive than the it's. It's virtually the same as not having any is that is that what you mean?

Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, that's the that's the whole concept is the idea that 100 a 100 to one meaning one unit of energy. You get 100 back now. That's our grandfather's time. Back in the 20s and 30s and then say back in the 70s and 80s. It was somewhere around 30 to one and then nowadays what they're talking about in the United States. We're at about 11 or 12 to one. And it's falling fast.

Speaker 4: But isn't it? Isn't it also true, though, that they’re finding these vast reserves of gas and oil in the in the past very few years?

Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely, and those vast reserves have been known. It's just that they're very difficult to get out of the ground, and that's where the energy return that comes into play where it takes so much more to process that.

Speaker 4: OK, OK.

Speaker 7: Take, for example, the tar sands.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: You know they're. That's a great example of a low ROI of something like 3 to one.

Speaker 4: Oh, right.

Speaker 7: It's almost not, It’s almost not even worth it. Same with the fracking business. It’s very low return on investment. There's also things called stripper wells out there where they get. Upwards of 10 barrels a day per well, but they're not worth getting the oil out because it takes more energy to get it out than except that we want that liquid fuel so . I mean, we just. That's our shot in. Our arms, so to speak. You know for the addiction.

Speaker 4: Good point and thanks for that reference if to so we can check that out. Find out a little more.

Speaker 1: Yeah I would.

Speaker 7: Definitely say it's an interesting subject. Look up it. You could you can check out sun. Weber has a great site that explains all this stuff. That . People talk about windmills and solar panels and these things, but it's a very dispersed energy. There are no factories run on solar power that make solar panels. Put it that way.

Speaker 4: Ah, bottom line. Yeah, that's.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it takes a lot of.

Speaker 4: That's rather pithy.

Speaker 7: Yeah, all those energy inputs.

Speaker 4: It's not, yeah.

Speaker 7: That add up and. And yeah, so the peak, the peak oil dynamic has changed in the sense that they're not so much worried about that point where we can't get more of it. It's the return on the energy investments, and it's not the money and that's and that's something people mix up to is.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 7: That they think it's the money part of it that well. It'll just cost more. You know It’s the laws of physics.

Speaker 4: OK Dave, thanks very much.

Speaker 7: All right, Jen bye bye.

Speaker 4: Take care. All right now we got some music and maybe even more calls. Well, several calls and two off air in addition. Well that was Dizzy Gillespie and James Moody fronting the Monterey Jazz Festival. Orchestra few years ago. Well, let's see. You know these changes not just the ice melting and the rest of it, but. Now we're hearing about. The connection between the emotional life of people and what is. What is happening in the physical world? In other words, it's driving despair and now it's being called pre traumatic stress disorder by some. Yeah, this. I don't know how much literature there is on this, but. The point is, it's becoming mental health issue, not just the not just the actual environment out there, but. You know outer nature and inner nature. There certainly aren't connected. This was a piece in Vice that Dan Oberhaus February 4th. Oh man. Well, yeah, I've got well, I'm going to get into some news here. Were talking about the. Huge fires in South Central Chile. Yeah, this. And the backdrop to that the. All these big plantations. By a few very big corporations. You know there's the social part of it, as well as the increasingly high temperatures. Anyway, that's become very drastic in Australia. As well, at the moment 50 fires in the current heat wave as of a day ago. And the side stories bats are dying by the thousands because it's so hot, because this the equivalent of our August. If you're in the north. If you're in North America or northern hemisphere. Yeah, those fires in Chile. They've been raging for weeks. And Reuters pointed out on the 9th that the increasing droughts having to do with the temperatures, that's not the only reason for droughts, but will double the size of epidemics like the West Nile, West Nile bug, that virus. Over the next 30 years, becoming a much more major problem and a more severe problem. And the temperatures involved. The increasing temperatures make smog much worse. For example, in Chinaccording to the South China Morning Post. In a related thing, this. I think this. Was yesterday or today that now india they have caught up. With China in the race to poison the air. And the 1.1 million people die prematurely every year because of air pollution. Hey, let's see we got. Honey bees hammered again the monarch butterflies in Mexico. That's where they winter down 27% from last year. As many as 500 whales beached in New Zealand. I don't know if that's over, but that was late last week, the third biggest beaching in recorded history, that's. That's new. Oh boy and we have mentioned before the. The looming threat of drug resistant infections. The fact that antibiotics are losing their punch, to put it mildly. And there’s more on that all the time, and now It’s just ramping up the reality of that. OK, we got another call.

Speaker 3: Yeah, this Aiden.

Speaker 4: Hey hey John. Hi Aiden, how are you doing?

Speaker 8: I'm good, I have this article from the Guardian. I saw it today has to do with air pollution headlines, air pollution, masks, fashions, next statement. It's about, I guess it's some company in Sweden. I think that's making us designer breeding map. They call it the urban breathing mask.

Speaker 4: And it's a fashion accessory, huh? A fashion accessory on top of it.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it costs $100 for the adult version.

Speaker 4: Yeah, great stuff. Geez, where and where are they selling that?

Speaker 8: It was a company called Arenium. IAIRI NUM. Really fascinating website.

Speaker 4: Wow, OK, I'll put in my order.

Speaker 8: Yeah, so yeah, the future of air pollution is just another commodity.

Speaker 4: Right, yeah, there's always a solution. Thanks for that, Aiden.

Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4: OK, well let's see on to some Action News. If we're lucky, we can squeeze that in there among the phone call. Well this not. This not resistance wise. This anti resistance wise it looks like the standing rock thing. I hope I'm very wrong about this but. It seems like the rug has been pulled out from under that. Most especially since before done in by the. Standing Rock Sioux tribal council. It's it's. These tribal governments, which I think have already also said not to be confused with elders, elders and no expert in this but. My understanding is they have a lot more respect than these government agents who are paid by the feds to crack down on stuff. It's good to know these things. It's good to know going in. Maybe next time people will be a little more. Wary of what game is being played. All right, 2 cell phone towers in the Milan area were burned on January 26th. Quote Attack the power now it's increasingly widespread technological and telecommunications control. In solidarity with the anarchist locked up in Italy's operations script Manent. Another big sweep and put these on rather often in Italy. As you may know, also January. In Australia. Australia day. Celebrated every year while 10s of thousands took to the streets across Australia to protest what they call invasion day. So there’s strength there. There's opposition there. February 2nd. Let's see, this. Getting a little blast in Mexico City. We concentrate our discontent inside a drone containing 8 liters liters of highly flammable material combined with explosive material and a simple detonator. Replaced it right in the middle of two ATM. And they give the address total destruction to both machines with the money inside burned. Branch will barely be closed for several weeks. Yeah, also in solidarity as well as hatred for Citigroup and the rest of the banking. Thursday, February 4th. This some nice graphics here, so there's that. It's going down. In Minneapolis At the National Guard Office, place that just covered with. Painted Graffiti Circle A's no DAPL, no justice on stone land. They're nice, look at things. And this post to February 8th. A Bundeswehr vehicle that's the German army. Boone is very incinerated in Bremen, Germany, and nicely done. Completely done. And this was somewhat in the news, although not as much as. One might have thought. Thousands in Bovini which is a Paris suburb of Banlieu area. They rioted over police, rape of a young guy named Teo. Enormous uprising here. Lots of damage BP station gas station was attacked burning barricades. Police vehicles smashed up with rocks and lots and lots of stuff. Shopping center invaded and McDonald's devastated, including the tills were stolen. Decathlon stores robbed other looting and vans. Burnt or otherwise wrecked. And this a nice one. Posted Sunday the 12th, claiming responsibility for causing the disruption of the Pacific Northwest Corridor rail line north of Vancouver, WA. On several occasions over the last few weeks, 6 gauge booster cables were attached to rail junctions and several points along the rail lines. Which triggers the railway signalling system. This a low risk and easily reproducible form of sabotage. That can potentially cause massive delays and economic losses. To the everyday functioning of extraction industries. And this particular railway is the key. Route for crude oil passing from the back end. Region of North Dakota. On to other places. So there's just a few little things. There's more I know, but it's a little bit of it that I saw. Yeah, I was just mentioning, I think when the phone rang. The rise of antibiotic resistance. Is now shaking things up. It's not brand new development, but It’s being taken more seriously. We're getting close, and that could really. You know it's like plastic if you don't have plastic, you can't do surgery, and even if you have plastic, you can't do surgery. If there's no way to deal with any infection. If we're getting to that actual point. There's a lot of things. That are. Of course, tied together. System holds everybody hostage in various ways. Various interconnected way. Well we have to have this and that. We just have to and well, yeah, that's how we're kept in place but you have to break through that thinking. And go to different. Options apparently there's a radio drama on Radio 4 in England called resistance. Written by the crime writer Val Mcdermid. And this the. This the thing about the antibiotic threat. Now it's getting into the pop culture awareness. It seems. Oh, and the yeah. But Speaking of people being hammered emotionally driven to despair and so on, there's a graphic deal. OD cases in Louisville, KY are spiking late last week 52 calls in 32 hours. Not that all of these are fatal OD's, but. It's just a new reality, one official said. And of course it's in no way limited to. And there was a note here. This one of my favorite books. Upon the death of Sigmund Bauman, who died last week at age 91. Been a lot of good stuff, some of it wanders into the postmodern zone. It seems to me, but the book I was thinking of wrote it came out in 89 modernity and the Holocaust. And it's all about the hookups. It's all about how is that set up. Anne Bauman describes it, the genocide as an all too characteristic creature of the modern era. And I'll read from one of these obits. The early 20 early 20th century, he noted had brought us large scale factories, efficient systems of transport, huge enterprises with disciplined workforces. And a lot of other things, including pseudoscientific stuff like eugenics, but that wouldn't have happened that wouldn't have been possible without the without industrial modernity. You. Or, well, conceivably, it would have happened, but it would have been extremely difficult if we could not have happened in the way that it did in the time frame that it did, at least, and. Oh, I'm looking out there and seeing Chris he. He had a little surgery last week and he missed, but he's he's on the deck. He's in the building. Well, just getting back for a second more about air pollution. It's a theme that's is somewhat unavoidable I guess. There I've mentioned its impact, air pollution, excessive air pollution. Causing being a real causal factor for dementia cases. And now there's a new study. The first to find a correlation between air pollution and diabetes. Scientists at USC in California. The study of Latino kids. It just it just ties it up. Yeah, this was under the aegis of the Environmental Protection Agency. You know It’s one thing to all the people that are. Well, kids and others more and more sedentary. More overweight you can see the setup for. For the onset of diabetes. But this about air pollution. They found that's how many hundreds of kids did they study. Anyway, they found that when the children turned 18 they had about 36% more insulin than normal, meaning their bodies were becoming less responsive to the insulin. They were the body's insulin, and that ain't good. Apparently, addiction. Let me hear a lot about addiction Internet addiction. Opioids and so forth, but. Interesting piece in the University of Chicago magazine. Winter Edition just came out. Behavioral addiction now psychiatrist John Grant, who's a degree in Chicago. He says just a little bit of this here for his patients relatively commonplace activities such as shopping, eating, or Internet surfing have become all consuming. Yeah, financial ruin, legal trouble, marital problems and the point is that this an addictive. A society, It’s just. What what drives that? What is the why are we seeing so much more of it? Gambling addiction. Lots of things like that. Yeah, it's a little troubling. Well, we're going to. I don't know why we probably have time for another call, yes, suddenly. It's the reverse of what? Usually you say girl.

Speaker 3: Right?

Speaker 4: Now it's quiet, at least at the moment. Oh, this a question from a friend of mine. Up in Victoria, Canada, he wanted the just wanted me to throw this out. Who are the best or most important women writers in relation to anarcho primitivism antitype anology and anti domestication? And please jump in on this. I too. Certainly come to mind right away that are. Have works that are quite available, quite accessible. One is Leilabdel Rahim. And she has two books. I think they both came from Routledge. Maybe one is the University Press. Anyway, and just the past few years in her emphasis. Is on the domestication of children. Children's literature and, and more than that, I mean It’s she. She really goes into the depths of it. And Chellis Glendinning in her book back in 94. My name is Chellis and I'm in recovery from Western civilization. Is is quite a classic. And it's a very good thing she's not writing about that so much anymore, but. Those are those are two. Really important figures you've contributed and there. Are lots more. But we could start with those for sure. Well, yeah, the biodiversity deal. Oh man, hedgehogs are disappearing in England. The crickets and the grasshoppers are going to, according to the Telegraph and BBC stories. And here. Today in the New York Times. Reference to the 10s of thousands of common murres. That's the seabird. Disappearing on the West Coast. No food. Speaking of destruction of habitat. Yeah, that there was a there was a call off here about this. We mentioned early on the levels of contamination of some of the. Some of these oceans deepest trenches PCB's is 1 specific thing. If you're wondering, well, what pollution would that be? What do what's? What's up with that? Yeah, chemical pollutants. And some of the worst, such as PCB's and it was reported in the journal Nature, Ecology and Evolution. And then carried by the Washington Post yesterday. If you want to. Run that down. And we got the recalls that mentioned that lately. See, I think it was yesterday. Sargento cheese being recalled due to Listeria. Today, Mazda is recalling 174,000 cars to fix. Faulty seats. Yes siree. Well, yeah, we're we're we're about out of here we're getting close to the hour. And we'll make room one more thing. Raymond Tallis a favorite writer of mine. He's a he's written about consciousness. I drew on him for the piece that I wrote a couple years ago. Losing consciousness. He has a book that came out a year or two ago called the Black Mirror and it's a strange memoir. And he's he's reporting from RT, which is his corpse, and he's it's he's musing. Back through his life, really a great writer. And here's a delicious little point. He's recalling these different things in his life. These different objects, and so forth. In the middle of the. There was a moment when what he had because he was referring to himself in the third person a moment when what he had hitherto called the phone was renamed the Landline. When meetings were specified as face to face, as if that were a rather special subgroup of human encounters, speech had not yet been rebadged as throat mail. But it was only a matter of. Time, that's a lovely book. It’s. I'm working on the topic of death and I'm so I. And red it's called the Black Mirror. Well thanks a lot for tuning in. We're streaming in or whatever and Catherine will join us next week. Take care.

02-07-2017

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts, Super Bowl ads of the week. Severe eco assaults in China, India. US attack in Yemen echoes Obama. Anarchist action in Berkeley tops the charts. Resources online damage to kids. "Dark Night" details "numb, narcotic mood" across America. Internet source of global warming. Action briefs. Desire and hope ...and egoism.

01-31-2017

[audio]

Trump, anti-Trump...any significant anti-authoritarian quotient? Will there be? "Our Dissolving Social Glue." Latest oil spills, primate extinctions. Chile on fire, Bay of Bengal's giant dead zone, superbugs winning against antibiotics. Dutch orangutan on Tinder. Ad of the week (hermes as nature). Action news, 3 calls.

01-24-2017

[audio]

Alice co-hosts. Global over-heating is accelerating; "Experts Foresee Profound Threat to Civilization." Super-rich seek safe redoubts. Pipeline news, including repression and theft by Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council. We discuss our three weeks in Egypt. High-tech isolation mounts. Ads of the week, anarchist action briefs, two calls.

01-17-2017

[audio]

What was anarchy in 2016? Shootings, extinction news, drought in French Alps, pollution in London worsens. New issue of Black and Green Review. Is the Invisible Committee "commie"? Latest Earth First! Journal. Massive global corporate corrup-tion - a new stage? Human-robot marriage by 2050. Three calls. Egypt with Alicenext week.

01-10-2017

[audio]

Kathand Ian discuss approaches to spirituality (e.g. animism)and technology. One call.

2016

12-20-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Standing Rock comments. Disturbing China news. The Brilliant, IGD. Crazy Arctic warming, porpoise extinction. Spike in drug use, mental dis-ease. Mark Boyle goes anti-tech, digital "education." Ad of the week: $720 self-lacing shoes. Action briefs.

12-13-2016

[audio]

Heretofore hidden politics of Standing Rock. Eugene Weekly and DGR organizer Sam Krop. More of "Fake News," spawn of postmodernism. Denver "Autonomous" Assembly vs. actual autonomy? Artforum's empty "Imagine a World" feature (Nov. issue). Extinction news, opioid epidemic. Ads of the week e.g. ask Google how to make your infant laugh. Why driverless cars. Action briefs, three calls.

11-29-2016

[audio]

Read my "Night" and "Black Friday". Maddening high tech ads. A very violent week. SF's Millenium Tower sinking, tilting. "Fake News" - who can say(?) Third Stage en- vironmentalism after 30 years. India bans fireworks to reduce pollution(!) Chess vs. computers. roblosricos@wordpress.com. Anarchist (mostly) action news, two calls.

11-22-2016

[audio]

Fifth Estate, Submedia-TV, even Leonard Cohen, come under scrutiny. More Dead Cops. North Pole last Thursday: 36 degrees above average. Post-election hate acts - what to do. Peak Oil?? Apps for doing good, for avoiding death-by-selfie. Philosophy Talk, Ad of the week. Action news, two calls.

11-15-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts and reports on awesome Portland resistance ($1 million damages Nov. 11). Ayahuasca: a consumer fad? Hydro power = mercury poisoning. The South is burning. Polluted Danube, need for our own resources health-wise, not techno "solutions." Artificial daylight. Bank of No Money touts autonomy, not leftoid organization fetish. Action news, one call.

11-08-2016

[audio]

Voting is not the way out. Air pollution severe in Asia. Children made dumber, fatter by technology. Suicide rates, mass shootings, cops getting shot - all rising. New books. Again, "Will Standing Rock Give Anarchism a Soul?" Mono- polization increasing, Chomsky a self-described Bernie liberal. Action briefs, two calls.

11-01-2016

[audio]

A tale of two occupations; inside Standing Rock. Earth First! review of BAGR#3. Low energy pop culture, labor unrest. "Will Standing Rock Give Anarchism a Soul?" Modern Madness by Ed lord, Feral Consciousness by Julian Langer. Every company a tech company. "Opioid Poisonings Surge Among Children." Tech ads of the week. The Rhino GX. Call- out for G8 Hamburg July 2017! Action reports, four calls.

10-25-2016

[audio]

Local pro-cop media. Tom Hayden vs. Eugene anarchists (2000). Excerpt from Don DeLillo's fine Zero K novel. Desertification of China, mammal extinctions, shootings of the week. EZLN now firmly Left: politician land. Black Mirror, oil and chemical spills. "Disappearing Middle Eastern Neighborhoods Find New Homes Online", Toyota's new Kirobo Mini, a robot baby. Anti-authoritarian news,

10-18-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Trump=fascism? "Sully" movie is anti-tech. More clown hysteria. Resistance in Portland. The Moth Snowstorm celebrates nature and its continuing beacon. "The First Farmers" - domestication was imperialist. More cops shot. Children of the New World (They Delete Their Kids). Space travel and dementia. Latest v. diluted product from Derrick Jensen. Action news, one call.

10-11-2016

[audio]

Nihilist jokes, "Someone Mailed Feces to Four Philosophers." Clown panics: jumpy people. Regresion #5: Saving the world is the "highest form of domesti- cation," in latest ITS-style lunacy. Worsening cities, air, as robotics marches forward. Cops killed in So. Cal, anarchist/anti-authoritarian resistance. Five calls.

10-04-2016

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Re: last week's call from rotn: nihilism and what's the point? Anarcho-primitivist Ria Montana on Which Side. Exploding batteries, cars, washing machines. Technology weakens us, displaces human interaction. iPal robot keeps kids quiet and surveilled ("companionship"). Stress overrides diet in terms of general health. People reading much less over past ten years. Anarchist resistance briefs.

09-27-2016

[audio]

Tulsa, Charlotte - and next week? More rampage shootings. Dispossess #5: egoist vs. primitivo. Rotn calls in re: nihilism. Ben Rivers' "Two Years at Sea" film. Dodge Charger: "Domestic not Domesticated." "Machine learning" solves problems that need not exist. Resistance news in brief.

09-20-2016

[audio]

Ode(s) to nihilism. Egoist-nihilist offering from Greece: Anti-Social Evolution (self-indulgent despair). 1 or 2 things about The Brilliant #32. Some of the week's violence, water woes, 1.5 billion birds gone. 3.66 million year-old footprints: walked just like us! LA man who walks people for a living, child suicides, resistance news.

09-13-2016

[audio]

Vagaries of 9/11, including Ward Churchill's fate. Standing Rock update. Nicholas Carr's Utopia is Creepy: And Other Provocations e.g. "Technology promised to set us free. Instead it has trained us to withdraw from the world into distraction and dependency." Ayuhuasca craze. Yet more anti-anarchist ITS crapola. Violence, eco-disasters. Resistance news. "Multinaturalism." (Dell) ad of the week and other astounding tech developments. One call.

Speaker 1: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. You're listening to KWV AU gene and it's time for anarchy radio. As it is every Monday at 7. Well, John and I are both have been in our respective Leon Russell kicks lately, so we have a bunch of Leon Russell to start off with tonight. But the number here is 5413460645. We'll be taking your calls in. Just a little bit.

Speaker 3: Well, how have you been? My blue eyed son. Well, have you been my darling young one? I'm stumbling upon sign 12. Misty mountain. That highway I stepped out in the middle silvam Sepphoris. I've been. Out in front. The dozen little oceans I'll tell you, it's hard. Good, it's hard. Will it harm? Get the. Hot rain. It's gonna fall. And tell me why did you see my blue eyed son? What did you see, my darling young one? Saw with black friends. Dripping and with the blood all around it. A ballroom follow me on with their hand, birds bleeding all in white. Later all covered with water soft 10,000 talkers, whose tongues were all broken up with his heart. It is hot.

UNKNOWN: Oh you.

Speaker 3: It's hot rain. They're gonna fall.

Speaker 1: September 13th, September 13th. Time to get your anarchy on with us. Kyle and I are here taking your calls at 541-346-0645. Well, let's see two days ago, 15th anniversary of 9/11. We are almost 3000 died in those twin towers at the World Trade Center. Several ironies involved in this, of course, but one is the fact that the cancer cases keep soaring. They are soaring among the responders so that they're going to be if they're not already. It might already be the case that more fatalities. Among these folks due to cancer then were killed. On that morning. Oh sweet, I've got two microphones now. Count them two.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in stereo.

Speaker 1: I like it. I can hear myself. Well, anyway, so that's the built world for you. All of. Those kinds of modern toxins and otherwise, by the way. Otherwise, getting back to the old fashioned stuff, there's a piece. In the economist about cement, the cement industry is one of the world's most polluting. Cement alone accounts for 5% of man-made carbon dioxide emissions requires vast quantities of energy and water to make cement, which is the maingredient of concrete. Billions and billions of tons of cement were needed are needed every year, especially in China, for instance. Anyway, whole lot of cement in the World Trade. Towers as well. Well, oh I wanted to add to that I just thought of this going back to this. Some of about this or remember this, indeed. Or Churchill wrote an essay called on the Justice of Roosting Chickens. Right after the 9/11 thing and it's a reference if you didn't already know to Malcolm. X Malcolm X wrote something or gave a talk. Right after the assassination of JFK in 1963. And he referred to it as the chickens coming home to roost. This what you get in the weird violent society. Too bad thing anyway. Ward was fired in 2007 when this essay began to get some circulation. And yeah, tells you a little bit about freedom. All those innocent people killed in this land of freedom. Well, his point was of course that in the boardrooms up there in those towers. Decisions are made that kill hundreds of thousands of people. All the time, so, but the what hit the fan when this became public. It was really. It really wasn't noticed for a while, but anyway he was fired professor at the University of Colorado. And they tried to cover it up by calling him a plagiarist, that his scholarship was largely or significantly plagiarized. Well, there was a jury trial about that, and the jury said, no, there wasn't any plagiarism. But then, the state of Colorado upheld his firing anyway. They just, think there's a jury system of your peers or something?, some due process. Yeah, they just doesn't matter what the jury says and. So this a six year saga. In 2013 went up the line in terms of appeals and the Supreme Court refused to hear his appeal. In 2013. Case closed. So yeah, that's what you get in this land of the free. If you want to say something that isn't authorized. Well, another very big thing where it's talking about a little bit is of course, what's happening. In southern North Dakota, the standing rock. Intervention whatever you want. To call, it turns out on Friday. As this thing was building and I've referred to this before, I mentioned that thousands. I think 5000 a week ago already there and more people on the way. I've heard about some of those people anyway. The government, the feds Obama pulled the plug on it on Friday just before the weekend said no because it was he could see that’s the Liberals. They're they're a little bit more farsighted. That is not quite as ham fisted as the. As the Conservatives and so. It was, of course intended to, as the New York Times put it, reduced tensions. Or, just pull the plug. What are you folks here for it? There's no construction, It’s stopped. Stopped temporarily, probably until the winter when it's freezing blizzards up there and not so many people are going to be there as they would be in early September. And what and there's a. a. There's another aspect, which is simply that it hasn't stopped all the construction, only on a small part of it. So, and they wanted to put it off as well. The whole thing is over. You know you can go home or stay home, . It’s. Yeah, so we'll see. I think there were. There are people who are not so easily fronted off who are there or maybe on the way there and they know this not over. This not victories yet. By the way, last week, two days before this announcement by the government. The two biggest pipeline companies. In North America merged. I just thought this was an interesting little sidebar. Enbridge and Spectra Energy signed a deal where they will merge course. We're going to hear more about what's happening up there with this. This four state oil pipeline that is being. Strongly resisted by. Native folks representing. I read yesterday 280 different groups, different tribes. And their allies. So this thing was getting huge in a hurry. All right? Well, there's a new. There's a new book I'm dying to see by Elaine Glaser. Called get real. How to see through the hype, spin and lies of modern life? And here's a quote. Technology along with turbo capitalism seems to me to be hastening the cultural and environmental apocalypse. The way I see it, digital consumerism makes us too passive to revolt or to save the world. And I see this. In the context of a. An article is getting around some. It was in the Guardian. On Friday the 9th by Stuart Jefferies called. Why have forgotten 1930s critique of capitalism is back in fashion. Talking about ad. And the boys, Horkheimer and Marquessand company. Actually Adorno wrote his most important work in the 40s and 50s and even 60s, but he certainly got started in the 30s, and it was more than just a critique of capitalism, too, by the way. But anyway. Yeah, it's interesting if this guy's right. It's back in fashion I'm not. That's probably a good sign I’ve drawn so much from a door. Not all of it, but. Some of it, so maybe there are some things in the wind that are. Pretty darn promising another one, and this a little off the subject I guess, but I've been hearing. From people whose friends or kids or others. Just to at random, turning on to ayahuasca, and I have a good friend here in Eugene who knows a lot about it. Jesus does and he's been in various countries checking out this phenomenon. In this week's issue of The New Yorker, is a piece called The Secret Life of Plants. The green juice generation finds its drug of choice. Ayahuasca used for centuries in South American jungles is booming in the US. And I if anybody would like to call about this. I'm just real curious what I was. I was sort of thinking. Maybe It’s compared to what it could be compared to LSD's in the 60s. And I always thought about that the time as appropriate to when things are expanding, such as the possibilities, the movement of the 60s, and whatever you call it. Was coming on, things were changing. It was. In the air. Not just the music, but all kinds of stuff. And it was great that were pretty amazing moments in there so. And my own personal feeling was that is really a good time when you want to open yourself up to the world when the world seems to be maybe turning and. And going in a good direction. But otherwise not. That's just my personal deal because I've dropped out since then, but. It hasn't been fun because it's a. It's a terrible closed down world. It's not expanding. In the good sense, only in the bad. Sense, and I thought I wondered if this true or I wondered how it could be that this so popular. I was. Is it not a welcoming world to open yourself way up to? And anyway, I'm really curious about that. Jesus was telling me It’s more of a personal thing, although Alice is a personal thing too, but I guess. It isn't linked to anything necessarily, but he was contending that. The experience makes you way less likely to become some corporate. Clone or military clone or whatever, but. Oh, I guess that's that sounds plausible, although I think the people that would take Ayahuasca probably aren't on that track anyway. Even before they take it, probably, but. Anyway, I'm really curious and it could be another sign that people are. Are reaching out in. Opening up and so on. Well, the Super bug thing is still haunting us. More stories was one a piece story last Saturday the 10th here. 4th US person has been diagnosed with bacteria resistant to the last resort antibiotic. This really getting to be. Pretty scary if you if it's resistant to the top antibiotics, the real killer. Kinds, then woe. That's been coming on. I guess I have to get this out of the way a repellent thing, but a recurrent thing. The latest its type thing. This was put out by Atascosa, which is a new sort of publishing thing. September 10th and this particular piece is called hard words and eco extremist conversation. It's an interview. By a spokesperson for the Itts thing, the. The nihilist extremist Deco people and stuff. They are so into into publicity. They're so worthy they as somebody else said it. You think nihilists are just? I don't know. Sulk in a corner or something or blow. Blow up something blow themselves up, but these people are all over the media. But still it remains to be seen. I know some people feel like they're taking credit for stuff that other people did. I don't know if that's true or they're taking credit for stuff that never happened. I don't know that either, I mean. Some of it has happened. I think we know that much, but. I thought there's just a there's two or three points I wanted to make about this. This particular interview, for one thing they have announced here that they're not going to make references to Indigenous people anymore. They were starting to try to make their case. Trying to link up with the. With so-called ferocious hunter gatherer people, and that was completely. And you can look it up. There's a response. To that approach, which in which they use the Calusa, people that Southwest Florida. Anyway, it's at anarchist news for August 20th and. I didn't write it, I wouldn't know where that came from, but it just completely savaged their misuse of the Calusa. And so I'm not surprised going to give it up because it was clueless. It just like every sentence was just. Wrong, ? Let's see what is. What is the other point or two? I wanted to make. Well, this just the same one, they’re really doubling down on this as they say. It they repeat the charge that I have and other people I know have. Advocated that they, especially in Mexico. I guess as a reference supposedly go into the woods and fight the drug cartels. That's what they should be doing. They've repeated this over and over. I have never said that I don't know any one who has ever said that, so they've switched from making up stuff about indigenous people to making up stuff about other people. You know it, it's really. I guess it's just, I have to say it again. Part of the old post modern world where it doesn't matter if it's factually true or. And the other thing they repeat this as well. I am the boss of the different primitivist people. I am El Hefe, I'm the chief and the all the rest are my clones. My disciples, that these people are anti anarchists. They're definitely not anarchists, but they're also just ignorant of the anarchist. That anybody could do that in anarchist context, it's just craziness. It's just, it's moronic. But they pumping out stuff that defies any. Well, let's see here. Oh, a little bit of this and that. New study published last week this announced yesterday in the journal Cell, Cpl Humans have managed to destroy 10 per cent of Earth's wilderness since 1992. And this comes from University of Queensland. In Australia study. In terms of how. How much has been lost? 1.3 million square miles of wilderness, which is defined simply as areas that are largely free of human development. And that's a big old chunk of it. 10%, namely. And these intact landscapes of course, are hugely important for biodiversity, to put it mildly. They're also incredibly important for people's indigenous communities. To maintain their ways of life against all odds. There will be no significant wilderness left in less than 50 years at this pace. And despite the fact that deforestation in the Amazon, which is a huge thing, the rates have been dropping. In the past ten years or so. They're still doing it, but not as they're not raging. It's not as virulent as it was, and yet. But that’s a false image, too. They're they're reducing their destruction, but the destruction is still happening. It's like saying, well, we can put all these devices in the smokestacks and the filters and everything and so they're less toxic. The air and the water or whatever it is except the fact that. If you've got thousands more of these, the industrial plants and so forth. It doesn't even hardly matter if it reduces it because you're not. You're not keeping up, they're just keep doing it. And yeah, each one poisons the planet less relatively, but it doesn't mean overall the aggregate is less. It's certainly not less, it's anything but less. Well, just a word or two on violence. Maybe just a brief word. There was a piece in the New York Times today. This actually happened in late August, late last month. A womand her four children dead. In Agusan village in. In northwest China. She killed her young children and herself. This the fruit of urbanization and poverty. So much is being decimated and also of course polluted in China to fear some rate. And it's interesting to note it's hard to get the whole picture here, but. It's clear that with all of the unarmed black people getting gunned down, they're more cops getting shot lately. Last night in Detroit, Cop was shot, not fatally, but. And over the weekend on Sunday, in fact, gunmen? In LA, in Eagle Rock, just north of LA's center of northeast. Early Sunday morning. On the 11th had to close the 134 in both directions. He was shooting at LAPD vehicles or vehicle. And since the. Since the terror attack at the end of last year in San Bernardino. Which is also part of LA County. The violence there has really surged. It's a level quote unlike any. That they've faced in years, according to the LA Times. Last Friday. Just amazing number of shootings and fatal shootings. There been 150 shootings so far this year and the town. This San Bernardino is only about 200,000 people. Way more cities on track to have more slayings than in any year since 1995. And there's no clear explanation for why it is happening. Well, getting back to 911. My friend Ron and I were in Spain right after that. We planned to go. Before 911 happened, so we had our we had our tickets. And when we got to Barcelona this was still 24/7 news there as well as here. It was just non-stop over the big, especially the Twin Towers attacks. Yeah, what I remember one reading one graffiti thing it said you sow the wind you reap the storm. That was of course pointed at the US and another one was where was Superman? So of course some people were shocked, some people were mourning about that. In Spain, some people were thinking. I don't know how many people, but some people are probably thinking well. Hey for once the US got a kick. Got something back and I don't know how many people thought that but. There was, you could see on off for graffiti that,? They weren't exactly as. Upset as some people almost revelling in it so. When we're getting close to the break. Ohh I wanted to get back let me just throw this in here haven't said anything about recalls one of my little favorites. Indicating maybe that we're now at the place where they can't even handle basic manufacturing. I always wonder with all these recalls. For example, August 25th Ford recalling 88,000 plus vehicles over stalling issue. Saturday, August 27th. Mazda recalls their CX Sevens SUV. Because his steering is dangerously defective. August 28th or 27th, GM recalled 368,000 vehicles because of wipers would stop working. Last Friday the 9th, the door latch caused Ford to is going to cost Ford 640 million. Because they're recalling 2.4 million cars. And also on Friday Mazda, another Mazda deal. This time it's not the steering, it's the rear hatch can pop open and fall on people. I mean, yeah, that was good for 2.2 million cars. You know it's just obvious, isn't it? They can't. They can't make a car that isn't that isn't a death trap. It sounds like if you've got. Millions and millions of cars in a space of like 2 weeks. That's crazy. And yet the technology is so vaunted and perfect. And zooming and transcending and they. And what about your old basic car? I hope we see the end of them. Anyway, let's see. Well, we got some more Leon Russell on call.

Speaker 2: Yes we do.

Speaker 1: Let's do that and we'll come back soon.

Speaker 3: And across. The gas. OK. I will drown.

Speaker 1: Hello there, we have a caller on line one.

Speaker 3: Yes hi.

Speaker 1: Hey Craig, good you can. Hear me, huh?

Speaker 4: Yes I can.

Speaker 1: Alrighty, what's happening?

Speaker 4: Oh well, I've been looking at planetary boundaries research. And that's pretty interesting framework, and that it takes ecological problems and puts them in different categories. And I think it's it. Does have a? The goal of ultimate goal sustainable development. I don't know how that's going to workout but I think it's pretty useful.

Speaker 1: It's called sorry, it's called Planetary, what?

Speaker 4: Planetary Boundaries framework is resilient. Stockholm Resilience center.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 4: It published a couple of papers, a bill, one in 2009. And another one in 2015. And when you were talking about the and, I looked at the same study about the 10% of the wilderness vanishing in the last 20 years. You know and climate is a huge deal. I mean 20. We just got the numbers from NASAnd it's another record year. In fact it tied to lie and normally July is the peak. And so .

Speaker 1: Well, I'd have to I. I haven't looked at this. I'm not aware of what you're referring to, but I think. Straight up I'd say. Sustainable development is A is a clear case of oxymoron. There's no, it's. It's by definition. It's not sustainable, right? It's just a.

Speaker 4: I agree I totally agree. You know the actual, the actual framework. The boundaries are interesting because they. Look at the. Climate, they look at biosphere integrity. Biogeochemical flows land system change, ocean acidification, freshwater use and novel entities. Which are, ? And made pollutants and things like that and atmospheric aerosols saw loading stratospheric ozone depletion. And then they get into boundary crossover and I've been following the stories as they're coming out. And, I flagged them and a lot of the new science coming out falls into multiple categories. But this great acceleration that started like in the middle of last century used to really be kicking up, and . And the. Stockholm Resilience Center it's. Johan rockstrom A talks about a. You know that It’s a planetary crisis, but I . I wonder, with everyone's focused, climate change is a huge, huge deal, but I'm wondering if we're all like myopic, just looking at that. And not looking at everything together. Or if everyone.

Speaker 1: Well, there's certainly a whole syndrome of. Consequences, but I think everybody knows there's no dispute. No disputing the fact that it's a function of industrialization. It really kicked off with the Industrial Revolution itself. So if you don't want to confront industrialism, then you're just you're just joking. You know, I think.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah well.

Speaker 1: Is count the ways? I mean we can just spend all our time counting the disasters as they mount, but it isn't. You're not really allowed to say, look the whole damn thing is the whole paradigm. The whole dominant order is crazy and it's killing everything, and otherwise, don't waste our time with these foolish things like,. Sustainable development? That's that's just a crock.

Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we'll see. This where I'm doing. A little project where I, I start off with that, but I'm going into like the system of domination and then the struggle for liberation. Rewilding and. And I really need some good sources on Paleolithic humans. And then I want to go into. You know what's the likely future and an unlikely future?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: Don't know I and I’m. I'm seriously into from this. And I actually. Bought all your books this year and have them listen to your radio radio show, yeah?

Speaker 1: Thanks so much.

Speaker 4: So in. Yeah, just and just I think and I started your book why hope? And so I want to, not write everything off. But find. You know I haven't read enough of your book yet to be able to. To come up with and tell us a comment on it? Yeah, but I would like to. From like the dystopia that we're we're actually in understand, but just hope you too, too hope and I think, I think definitely the beginning of hope would be.

Speaker 1: Yeah, how true, yeah?

Speaker 4: The end of that system of domination and.

Speaker 1: Wow, I like that. Yeah, well, thanks for calling Craig and you think it's a good it's worth it's worth checking out this planetary boundary framework.

Speaker 4: I would. Yeah, if anything else you can. You can well this. This what I do and and I see I saw the. The scientific findings as they come, and then I flag them in these different areas and so I think it. You know there are so many reasons. Reasons good solid reasons to throw off what's causing all this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the bottom line, isn't it? Well, I've got to move on here. I appreciate your call, Craig.

Speaker 4: It's an honor talking with you, Sir.

Speaker 1: Oh, thanks you thanks. Same here. Very good bye bye. All right? Because you needn't read anything else than me. There’s no reason to, . Well here we got some Action News. Want to definitely want to squeeze this in here. Some of it has to do with prisoner work prisoner solidarity. End of August, of course, was prisoner Solidarity Week in various places. And during which in Bristol, in the good old UK, 9 Guards cars were damaged, prison guards or scratched badly, tires punctured, and one guard residence which they call screws over there, spray painted. Highly decorated thing and in France this was September 7th. I'm going to sort of take this just chronologically that vincy construction company again vincy in the news is sometimes a big old target in Western France. Three big construction equipment vehicles were burned in a quarry. And they were definitely arson, according to the police. And by the way, in terms of that sort of thing, contractors, construction outfits, Vermont rising, tide in New Haven, Vt. Have used they are using at the moment big machines to blockade work by the Michaels Corporation which is a standing rock contractor. By the way, this a solidarity action for sure, and Carol Irons, an Abenaki elder, said it's time for an uprising. Yes, that's great. And another thing in Western France this past weekend, over the weekend, four vehicles. Had their tires slashed, these are these belong to? Three or four different outfits. Different corporations. In western France and in a few different places there Athens last Thursday the 8th Greek anti Fascists played a visit, paid a visit and literally demolished the new offices of the Nationalist Socialist Party LE P En just a few days before their planned official opening ceremony. All right, they jumped on that hurry. And Speaking of the prisoner stuff, on Friday the US prisoner strike was called. And I don't have a whole lot of specifics yet on that front. Of the 9th. There been noise demos in solidarity with that in other countries, for example, Melbourne. So more will unfold about that. Another thing that happened on Friday the 9th in Portland, right up the road from us. Dozens protesting low prisoner wages and other incarceration issues is the way that. The media thing was announce. Demo lasted through rush hour. Downtown disrupted light rail and vehicle traffic. Cops say some threw things at them stood on the hood of a police SUV and scratched anarchist, anarchy symbol into the rear of it. And the man they're carrying on, all right, Portland? Doing it up there, just rush hour. That's ain't the middle of the night that’s very bold it's. So welcome to see that. Let's see what else. Well, I just thought I'd mention this. Colin Kaepernick. The quarterback with the San Francisco 49ers. The professional football guy. That protest is not only public, but spreading members of teams across the country. Carl knows well about this because he studies. He follows sports so much.

Speaker 2: I study sports yes.

Speaker 1: Student sports there it is. Yeah, that's interesting and that's. Again, people are free to do this in this land of freedom. Of course, they take enormous amounts of what because of it, but they're doing it anyway. And here's here's one to finish up here. This there were three non contacted Amazon. People, yeah Amazonian people young man, his mother and an elder female relative were led out of the forest. Where they lived their whole lives and taken to a village where they contracted TB, by the way, anyway, this a Washington Post story from Saturday a year and a half later in an extraordinary twist that two women have escaped back to the forest. They left the clothes they had been wearing strewn on a. Path and their escape left a very clear message. We don't want your civilization. Instead we choose our ancient way of life. Yeah, that was in the Washington Post on the 10th. That is a lovely thing. To get to put in there. Well, we're we're going to be. A little squeeze, but we got some. We got some more. Wonderful crazy stuff here, especially in the techno zone. This a new book. This another new book that I'm going to just really try to get my hands on ASAP. Nicholas Carr again. He's written, he's he's written some good stuff, some of it. Is a little. He pulls his punches a little but overall pretty good. He's got a new book called Utopia is creepy, and other provocations by Nicholas Carr. Just came out from W Norton. And here's a quote technology promised to set us free instead, it is trained as to withdraw from the world into distraction and dependency. Oh, I would repeat that if we had time. And but here, toward the end of the what he's written as a promo thing. And this I would have to say is a little weak. I think what I want from technology are tools for exploring and enjoying the world that is. We might all live in Silicon Valley now, but we can still act and think as exiles. We can still aspire to be what Shamus Haney in his poem exposure called Inner Emma Grays. Well, I don't think it's much of a tool for exploring and enjoying the world that it is, in fact. He has really said as much. Just in this article alone to dump on that idea. That's not what it does. And we can still act and think as exiles. Well, that's giving up the game is. You know that means you're done you’re defeated. You live in an occupied country or you're just a refugee in exile. We can still do that, ? Well, what about getting rid of this? What about tackling it and destroying what it is? That's caused us to withdraw from the world into distraction and dependency as he says. This from a friend of mine, just got this Huffington Post yesterday. Reports a new app for finding friends in the high school cafeteriand I think this app was made by a high school kid. It's called sit with us. It helps students who have difficulty finding a place to sit locate a welcoming group in the lunchroom. Now what I I'm trying to run that through a few times here. In other words, you don't look around and see who's there, make eye contact or something like that. Now you need to get on your screen. So you can. Ah man, it just. It is really as if people are just making this up, this. I don't know, and here's an ad. Here's a great. This the ad of the week from Dell. Well, actually it's an OfficeMax ad, but it features Dell computers. And here it shows somebody it shows a parent. The father is looking in on the daughter and he's he's saying all summer she wrote mostly in emojis. Soon she'll write the best essays in the entire 8th grade. Really, from emojis to the best essays, no, it's she'll be she'll write crap because she's she's just doing emojis and she doesn't know how. To express herself at all. Could there could there be any more obvious? Wow, it's. And here's a great tech 10. I got a pile of these. It’s great. It's amazing. This from last Thursday's New York Times Beijing Journal called. Burnt out in tech jobs and turning to Buddhism, it's about the Long, Quan Monastery. Northwest of Beijing And this a real growing. The photos. It looks definitely like a Buddhist monastery and It’s all about how yeah, people are burning out, they’re finding the tech thing empty and. The trouble is reading this significant article significantly long anyway. Well they have they have all these. For one thing, this monastery has they're introduced to a 2 foot tall robot named Zanier to field questions from visitors. So right away the temple gives you the old AI. They use chat apps to trade mantras. So how is this getting away from technology? It seems like they're bathed in it, and,. Yeah, they want deeper meaning. They want serenity. They want all this stuff and. So you go to their websites. As all these IT people. a joke. I would have to say I have to really have to say. And, well, I did refer to this last week. I'm pretty sure the good old. Samsung Note 7. Which which. It becomes incendiary at the wrong moment. Now the FAA is saying you can't fly with one. You cannot take one of these on a plane on the plane because of the lithium battery. Which can burst into flames. So just another big old recall because of the fire hazard. Yeah, seems pretty cool. You just had to buy the latest thing, even though it's garbage and dangerous. On top of it. OK, Oh well, here's another, but there's another ad of the week the runner up, shall we say. And this Dell delltechnologies.com. We are Dell Technologies, a collective force committed to driving human progress. There it is a full page ad and various newspapers. Yeah, how much more of this progress can we stand is? an obvious question there, and in the Atlantic this the current the September issue of the Atlantic magazine. Sam Keane. And this chilling. This all of a piece I guess. But head transplants are not so far away. Head transplants. And see this Frankenstein. Come to one's mind. No, they’re interviewing these these guys that are just hot to do it. They're going to. They have the whole surgery set up and they're going to. Connect if you got nothing but a head. Somebody dies and I don't know how it works. I don't I can't even. I can't even trip. It's just a little too much.

Speaker 2: Is that a head transplant or a body transplant?

Speaker 1: Ah well, I don't know. I can ponder that one. I couldn't even follow it. It's a long. Peace and the like. Very long but. Yeah, just exactly. And then what happens if you when or if you wake up just what's that all about? Yeah, it's. It's just bizarre. Well, here's another I'm going to throw this out. We don't have a lot of time, but in case somebody can help me, this a new thing. Partly it is pretty new is new to me called multi naturalism. There are many different natures. There's not just one nature or some agreed upon nature, and this just vintage classic textbook post modernism. You know it's just another version of who can say what anything means, right? Yeah, post modernism is alive and well and maybe even deepening when you when you see this kind. Of thing. It's it. A parallel would be or, or a connective would be what I've read from certain of these post modern types. Who can say what technology is, what it means? You know in. In fact there is no technology. Like with the capital, there are only specific technologies. So this really. One level, I don't mean necessarily consciously, but it's designed to keep people in a debilitated state. You can never grasp what the whole thing is about, what where it's going, and why . You just have to fiddle around with the little details. And who knows? Who knows what civilization means. You know it's just no nothingism. And there's it's somewhat popular. You can get that and it's just a It’s a dumbbell approach you don't know what it means. You could look in a dictionary, I mean. With some of it, it's that obvious, but anyway, there's, but nobody can say. And I ran across in a fairly new book by someone named Harvey Ferguson. And I think this worth quoting, very apropos. From a postmodern perspective, all categorical distinctions are dissolved in a symptomatic a historical discourse. That's that's the nub of it. Yeah, not only oppositions binary oppositions all oppositions because they don't oppose anything to switch the metaphor slightly. They are, they are, It’s what you get in a period. Of defeat, you get this liberal slop where. You can't distinguish anything, therefore you. You can't discern. What the problem is, or who the enemy is, right? Oh, this. I thought this was pretty good just today. And New York Times column by David Brooks. A middle of the road conservative guy. Yeah he is. I'm not. I'm not going to disguise that all. Today's column is called the avalanche of distrust. And the context,? In large part is the electoral craziness. But it gets down to. Deeper waters, he gets down to some other stuff and he's talking about. The rise of distrust. If you don't trust these these phony candidates. It's more than that, and it's. It's a lot of stuff that doesn't get any. Trust or confidence. He says the rise of distrust correlates with the decline in community bonds. That's exactly right. Among other Bad outcomes when there's no community. You get everything. You get these shootings. And so you've got the It’s in part having to do with chronic loneliness. When there's when there's no social bonds. That meanything, just machine, Facebook bonds or something. So I think he really hit pretty good and he this guy has no radical. Outlook or a solution at all, but he at least is able to. Somewhat confront with the reality. That we're losing intimacy, we're we're just more isolated we. We don't trust anything, you're just cut off, you're adrift. I mean, that's a big general thing, but I think his column. You know he starts by saying distrustful politicians. Nominated by an increasingly distrustful nation, and it's just all going to hell. There you have it. Oh yes. Hey, you're not Chris? OK, well I think we're going to bow out here. Let me just toss. In a couple of. Eco things,, this a striking one. From last Friday's Siberian mines. Caused a river. In the north of Siberia, to run bright red this week. The nearby Russians are calling the tributary the Blood River possible leak of industrial waste. It's it's possible, I don't know. And meanwhile in yellow the Yellowstone River in Montana fish are dying. And this from biofuels just to I don't know why I'm ending on this. But they cause more emissions of climate change. Carbon dioxide than gasoline. OK, if you think that's some green. Solution that's cut to the chase that's. That's what that's about. So Carl and I will be back next week. Cliff will join us in early October. I'm not sure which it is, but again. Sadly enough, Catherine is in Spain for a while, so she's now with us now. Thanks for listening.

09-08-2016

[audio]

Isaac Cronin on The Brilliant. Read my "Two European Thinkers to the Rescue!" No stopping motorists texting while forests, elephants, mussels, handwriting, health, coastlines disappear. Quakes, air pollution, loneliness on rise as Johan Norberg's Progress says things couldn't better. Tech promising everything, solving nothing. Action news, two calls.

08-30-2016

[audio]

Interchange and live music with Nazel Pickens! Green Anarchy and Black and Green Review. Elon Musk on "unborn" cars; elusive nihilism; "emotionally fragile" students." 13th ITS Communique: hydrochloric acid in the Coca-Cola. Online = "digital heroin." Resistance News - especially growing Standing Rock, 3 calls.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: Pape Pape Pape WWBBAWB 888.

Speaker 3: AWVA, Eugene

Speaker 2: You suckers good.

Speaker 4: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 5: That's right, you're listening to anarchy radio here on KWVA, Eugene. I'm in the studio tonight with John and very special musical guest. This nasal Pickens.

Speaker 6: Just fine bowing down. My love you baby you got to understand when the world may made rambling. Some folks might say I'm no good that it would settle down if I could. But when it'll open, roll. Start to come. Falling me. Well, there's something over there. Better got us, or sometimes it's all you got to understand. Blame, blame. To see the times Payson. And ride these rails you need. Wild Blues this land from the mountain to the sea because that's the life I believe. There was man for me, and when I die I'm grave. You stay just say they've called. Your rambling They've called home your rain.

Speaker 4: Yes, and who was that masked man?

Speaker 8: I'm nasal Pickens.

Speaker 4: Ocanas rotten. Who OK? Well, we've got live music in the studio and this anarchy radio for September 30th. Very special, we can have some more later. Wow, that's great. Well, I get the number of questions to put to my old friend Ron, who of course was a very very much a mainstay of green Anarchy magazine. Between 2000 and 2008, but I think we'll get on to quite a lot of things. I just wanted to stick in. One thing I forgot. Week was talking about lo and behold, thertzog film that I do really. It was, it was the part part of the film where they're talking to Elon Musk of Tesland SpaceX fame, and he's talking about driverless cars and Tesla. And how he's he's going on about how the data from each car, if there's any interaction, is shared by all the other driverless cars, and even by the unborn cars. How did I miss that one? Yeah, the unborn Christ.

Speaker 8: The unborn cars save the unborn cars well.

Speaker 4: What a concept? Yeah, think of the unborn cars.

Speaker 8: John, I'm back beautiful. It's not, it's nasal pickings is my alter ego.

Speaker 4: Been too long.

Speaker 8: My alter boy ego.

Speaker 4: Hold your boy. Were both older boys.

Speaker 8: Were were.

Speaker 4: amazing, so it's been has it been 10 years since you lived here.

Speaker 8: I left I left here 11 years almost of the day it was it was the end of July. Early August of 2005 I left Eugene.

Speaker 4: 11 years.

Speaker 8: And I've been living down in a mysterious little town. I won't mention now only because we have a pirate radio station down there that we do. And I probably shouldn't even say that, but at Micro Micro managed station in Southern Oregon, and that's where the nasal pickings guy came from, it's my alter ego. Cosmic anarchist cowboy side.

Speaker 4: I like it tasteless, but I like it. There you are.

Speaker 8: Well, I know Carl fully appreciates it as.

Speaker 5: Appreciated absolutely.

Speaker 8: Absolutely with the blood. On the blood on the saddle man.

Speaker 4: You know, like it's a gentle 1 here.

Speaker 8: And if you didn't know that's an old Hank Williams song, ramblin man that was a fitting 1 to. Creep back intown with.

Speaker 4: Oh indeed.

Speaker 8: And what a town and I, when I left 11 years ago, I thought I'd be back every couple of months to come. On your show and bug you would challenge you.

Speaker 5: Did that like ohh.

Speaker 8: I did it once at once and I make it back every couple of years really. Eugene's changed You know the Whittaker's changed?

Speaker 4: The Whittaker's changed.

Speaker 8: I mean, I love Ninkasi beer. I don't love Ninkasi bill. Yeah, we drove around the block the blocks.

Speaker 4: Oh, I know.

Speaker 8: Just to see what the old neighborhood was like and it's nakasi as far as you can see, and then two other breweries.

Speaker 4: Yeah, you never think of. The old haunt there, which is equal long gone.

Speaker 8: It is.

Speaker 4: Yeah, Dickey's is already gone. But I mean you would have no idea where that even was.

Speaker 8: The Shamrock house

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the info shop site for two or three.

Speaker 8: Years it was a different time and everything's changing. You know it is and some for the better, most for the worst. Everywhere, not just here.

Speaker 4: They're people that are not happy with the gentrification and the hipster Ville. The Whittaker, so it's.

Speaker 8: See what happens when I leave town, John.

Speaker 4: There you go. That's what I always. Say he had a concern. Here, so that's right.

Speaker 5: You're the only thing keeping.

Speaker 4: Ohh man.

Speaker 8: You're still here doing your show and Carl's still here. Working the dials.

Speaker 4: We're having fun with it.

Speaker 8: In a new studio.

Speaker 4: Brand new and by the way, we get callers Carl Carl's hearing knows how to make it work. 5413460645 call and insult our guest here.

Speaker 8: Gentrified gentrified? Give us a call. Well, we're going to talk about some stuff, what? We've both been up to and also maybe throw some ideas around.

Speaker 4:, well, one thing I wanted to ask you right away. I know you've committed the first three issues of black and green review to memory, so you can.

Speaker 8: Oh yes, yes. Recite it backwards. It makes more sense back. Now I'm just.

Speaker 4: Well, Kevin Tucker is involved in both. He wasn't an editor of GA, but he was a big contributor of course. Do you think it's fair to say that the GDR is the real sort of rightful heir of?

Speaker 8: It's interesting, I think . It GA green anarchy was the scope of it I think. Was pretty broad. It was anti civilization to the core but it went in various directions and one of the main components was anarcho primitivism for sure. So I do think black and green took up that portion of green. Working really well. You know there's there were other parts that I think green anarchy that were important. I think the insurrectionary anti civilization stuff which is still part of I think Black and green for sure some of the. Other tenants that work its way into the anti civilization perspective for me GA was a was a bigger umbrella I guess than Black and green is which is fine. I mean, I, I think it's great for people.

Speaker 4: That makes sense.

Speaker 8: To put out what parts of it resonate most with them. So in that way, I think they're holding down the anarcho primitivism.

Speaker 4: And maybe as we move along, I think maybe several of us there editors are thinking that. It may be more seemingly approachable by other people, because it started out the idea of it started out. It's not just last year, it's not like a big long history, but to be a debate thing and that didn't quite happen the way we thought. And but I would like to say if it's personally I think it we would like to have more voices.

Speaker 8: And maybe with some ideas that seem conflictual primitivism like for me. Personally, I find. Value and you could call me wishy. Washy people do. Ecumenical some have said I looked that one up. I didn't like it. But I find value in lots of different perspectives that contribute to a momentum against civilization. So I do think there's value in, say, an egoist perspective on civilization. I certainly wouldn't want that as my perspective solely, or even partially. I mean, I think it influences me. I think anarcho nihilist. Anti civilization perspective offer something interesting for me. I think country music adds something.

Speaker 4: Well, it was nice having you here come back again.

Speaker 6: There's so many different.

Speaker 8: Ways to approach civilization that I shy away from a more ideological approach that all those perspectives do fall into, including anarcho. Primitivism tends to fall into a. This this the way to look at civilization, and while I tend to agree with a lot of the analysis of anti of a primitivist perspective I for myself. I want other influences in it, and so that's where green anarchy I think was because we did have multiple people coming coming to it. But I do think black and green is great for putting out the anarcho primitivist side of things. It would be great to see you. Yeah, I’m not as interested in the egoist side of it. I think that's more of a dead end as surprisingly as it sounds, than a nihilist perspective, because I do think there's value especially living in 2016 in this country to figuring out where nihilism could have an influence in anti civilization ideas. I mean cause for me personally you. Know we joke about this a lot. The idea of hope is. A big question and. I don't want to. Put out false hope or some sort of. And I'm not saying you do or Kevin does or anything like that. I'm just saying I don't want to be a part of putting out this cheerleading. We can do it. There's hope perspective because I look around the world we live in. And I don't see where that would. That would be an honest way to approach it.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and that could be a tricky line. And I agree with you about the egoism thing. I think. For one thing it's more clear cut. You know what where it comes from the sterner and the it's you can. You can state that position fairly clearly, but nihilism. As I've often said, is a lot more elusive and I'm trying to figure out what is meant by it and. So yeah, in that in that sense alone, that I would think people sometimes it's been surprising. See that. Some folks I didn't know identified pretty much as nihilist not exclusively. But it's intriguing. I know some parts of it I don't like some versions of it I don't like the more, the more post modern one, which I think is there. I really don't much care for that, but generational.

Speaker 8: I think. Too, like I think you come from a generation where nihilism is like you scratch your head at it. Like a more hopeful generation in a way. I think people under 30, especially under 40. I'm over that too. But there's we're born into a world with less of an idea that some substantial change could happen that we can be a. Part of and. I know I've had glimpses of it in particular my days here in Eugene in the early days. Of Eugene, we all thought were invincible. Were going to bring down civilization. And very, I mean, some of the most. Exciting days of my life, Seattle. But then look look what the Whittaker is now, so not to say that everything's going to go that way, but I think sometimes in the moment you we have the delusions of grandeur that I'd like to take a step back and look at things in a more honest way. So my actions can be more strategic and more connected with my own personal desire. And that's what I do now. I, I hope, I’m still rabble rouser.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: I just don't offer sort of a glossy end product that were. I think doing with green anarchy.

Speaker 4: Yeah, times come and they go and who knows what will happen? We're all wondering what's going on and what might happen next or is unlikely to happen next or however one puts it. I agree with you, it's a generational thing because I can draw on the 60s of all things as ancient as tennis as well. As late 90s, early 2000s, there was certainly had its moments. Very certainly I mean in the larger.

Speaker 8: Cultural perspective like I look at I, I had this conversation briefly today in town at a coffee shop with a friend of ours and I brought up the whole question and she was bringing up the idea. Well look how open minded people are now. Look what they accept. You know look at these things that before were ? You were putting a back back alley for thinking and I said, well, that's true. Yeah, like now, I think generally there's a more open minded perspective of the world. That being said, I think what people do with that perspective. Is often shallow and empty, and through a device by every. Everything in this world. Now it goes goes through this device and I don't think people they're losing their ability to take in that information and do something with it.

Speaker 4: It seems so. Yeah, that's a key factor. Probably the key factor. And we. We know that. I mean it's but there it is, . And as I've said before, air guard deserves credit for. Wait, what? No, he brings it out and his relationship in the past with anarchist news and as a publisher, he's. He thinks about these.

Speaker 8: Things and then I think that's one of the ways that Aragorn offers something to the perspective that's interesting. Like for me, I think the debate. As far as our own personal connection to things are great for us to have with each other in our journals, but I think there is more commonality in those who identify as anti civilization than there are divisions and it might be more of more value for these various tendencies to figure out. OK, let's have our debates. But let's also. Figure out where there's common ground to move ahead and be strategic.

Speaker 4: Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. Well, we all. I think we pretty much all aspire to be honest and try to avoid the almost unavoidable trap of ideology everyone. Has one if they look closely enough. I suppose in terms of the assumptions that are very important to one, but maybe you're not so explicit.

Speaker 7: That's true.

Speaker 4: But well, I wanted to. I mentioned this very briefly before you fortunately haven't been subject to following the all this so-called eco nihilist specifically, ITS individualists tending toward the wild and the and their offshoots where there's a 13th. OK. Just the other. Day a brief. One for a change, and I think this one comes from Argentina. So they have branched out a bit anyway. It is brief, and it's it just rehearses their general thing. Society is destroying wild nature and a number of other other things that I think none of us would disagree with, but here's there's the thing that always is the problematic deal, I think. Thus, after they talk about what they demand so forth. Last July 12th, in an act of antisocial savagery, we poisoned dozens of 600 milliliter bottles of Coca-Cola with hydrochloric acid, and we left them in the refrigerators of two large supermarkets. So now hyper civilized if you bought Coca-Cola in the. This, I think this. I think they're talking about somewhere in Brian's areas, and you felt a bit ill. You can think of the. Initials ITS. But actually reading it over, if you felt a bit ill. I mean, in other words, I don't think they were really trying to kill people despite some of their rhetoric, their hyperbole, a little you feel a little ill. Or maybe they were trying to kill people I. Don't know but it. You could read it as so they got a little sick to their stomach. It's a little reminder of. ITS or something so.

Speaker 8: You know, and I understand some peoples problems with that and I and. I guess if. It was me or my family, I mean. I would I would have some issues with it being removed from the situation and understanding the world we live in and how huge the dilemma is. It's hard for me to get upset about that. You know what I mean? Like it's hard for me. Of all the things going on in the. World like some people putting some hydrochloric acid and making some bellies upset.

Speaker 4: Yeah, if that's if that's all it is, and you could perhaps read it different ways, but they have gloried in actually real serious physical injury that people happen to be walking by as one of their bombs went off, so it can be more serious and they, aspire to that so they embrace the misanthropy. On a. On a pretty stupid scale, I would think, who knows.

Speaker 8: I mean, but the same could be said for like for me personally I think the ideas of sabotage. Infrastructurally are going to do for our greater, I think are valuable things to look at strategically. Infrastructural damage are going to create far more devastating so-called collateral damage. And the coke.

Speaker 10: That's what.

Speaker 4: Right, right? Well we. We'd have to project that though, because as you well know, Alf and Liberation Front end and Earth Liberation Front have certainly made a. As a sort of dogma of injuring no life at all, and they never have injured any life at all but I guess you're referring to what is implicit. If they're going to blow up the dams and people downriver aren't going to. Be over the power or the power.

Speaker 8: Goes out for.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8: Weeks, people who are hyper dependent on it aren't. Going to survive that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, if there. If there are people who. Are serious about doing that with no warning or something that would be a different case for sure. You know just one. This a random thing, quite random, but. It's the column did they? David Brooks a mainstream sort of center, right? guy. New York Times today wrote a column and it was all about his interaction with teachers and trying to get a fix on what are the kids like? What's what is their mindset or something. And the upside of the column is. Emotionally fragile, say the teachers and I was thinking about that. You know what? Among other things, I mean, I think they were also saying they’re accomplished. They're not stupid, but emotionally fragile. Now and I'm wondering what all that might relate to is that kick off anything in.

Speaker 7: Your head.

Speaker 8: Emotionally, well, . I think in general people are getting more fragile, unable to deal with the simplest things, whether that's emotional. If they have, if they feel a certain emotion they have to go on their. Device and figure out what issue they may have. That may help them with that. I think more and more people are losing any ability. Ability to deal with any of their issues they may have, like I like to think of myself as someone who OK with friends around me telling me what my issues are. I can work on that. But I'm not going to let that guide my life. I'm going to. Live my life I think more and. More people are living in this other world. Where they can fall back on emotional fragility, they can fall back. On the whole. Array of problems. They can just chalk themselves up to having and not have to deal with their.

Speaker 4: Reality, in other words, the kids. Are no damn good. No, I’m getting there. But yeah, you really wonder and what the different kinds of tolls that I think it takes on. Not just kids but anyone when you're when you are really stripped of your. Autonomy or? Whatever that means. Whatever skills you have or whatever you think you can do, and you can't, maybe that's part of it.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean like we try to we go to some place we've never been to. We've we've been on a road trip me and my family and we look at maps and we ask people for directions and people look at us like we're from another planet. Wow, we just look at your GPS. Just look. At it just go well. We don't have any. That we don't have devices. We don't do that, and we're the we're the odd ones and I think on every facet of our lives that's the case at this point. Whether that's buying something to learning about, something to communicating with. Each other to. Having a party. You know, like I live off the grid and a couple of years ago my friend was having a party and I didn't know about. It because he. Facebooked it.

Speaker 4: Yes, yeah.

Speaker 8: On the same land as us. And it's things like that are becoming the norm. No face to face connections, no. Being able to figure things out for ourselves.

Speaker 4: I guess you're too fragile if you can't even do phone conversations, that's a big, almost unbelievable trend to me anyway.

Speaker 8: You know they don't. They don't even. I don't answer my phone because I don't want to talk to you. I don't answer my no. You know like not you. But in general, but I will talk to you if I need to. I'm, I. Don't do the texting thing.

Speaker 4: So like we're going to have some more fantastic music and just get ready, yeah, OK, get ready and. And we do have some very delicious Action News, including. Well, some outstanding stuff, so that’s one of the hopeful things that's for sure I would. I would put it that way. There are. There are some amazing things going on.

UNKNOWN: Is that OK?

Speaker 8: And I don't think I'm going to use. Theadphones because. I think that messed me up OK.

Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's a Pickens getting. Ready to go here.

Speaker 6: Well, this a.

Speaker 8: A song I wrote. And don't worry John, I'm not part of the. Tea party. It’s not a two party song. It goes out to my friend Andy.

Speaker 6: And it's sort of my tongue in cheek rural.

Speaker 8: AKA libertarian.

Speaker 6: Well, I don't dial 911. I don't pay taxes or keep my guns. I make moonshine. I've been known to smoke a little weed. Leave me alone because I'm alright and I ain't looking for a fight and I'll be just fine if y'all just let me be don't tread on me don't tread on me living wild and living free I told you once don't make me tell you twice will tread on me don't tread on me won't. And you don't bother me. Next time I might not be so nice I ain't left and I ain't right I sure is ain't afraid to fight to me gun control the steady hand. Here it smells like black powder smoke. I like me a good dead cop joke fight the world, but I'll defend this land don't tread on me don't tread on me live in while and living free I told you once don't make me.

Speaker 11: Tell you twice.

Speaker 6: Don't tread on me, don't tread on me won't. And you don't bother me. Next time I might not be so nice. Well, I love my Mama. I eat red meat look. Both ways far across the. Street and I'm gonna go anywhere I damn well. Please never go walk that straight never line never going to give up my wine never going to live up on my knees don't tread on me don't tread on me living wild and living free.

Speaker 11: Told you once, don't make me tell you twice.

Speaker 6: Don't tread on me, don't tread on me when. You don't bother me. Next time I might not be so nice. Like a rattlesnake eating up a mouse, got booby traps all around my house. Me and my friends don't like seeing you around. You think you're big and we so small because you think you won't it all day. The world's. Gonna come on crashing down don't tread on me don't tread. On me living in the wild and living. Free I told.

Speaker 11: You once don't make me tell you twice.

Speaker 6: Don't tread on me, don't tread on me warning you don't bother me next time I might not be so nice. So you can call me an outlaw Sam, a rebel. I'm just trying to put some food on the table. I ain't trying to be no modern day Robin Hood because I don't care about their big mess. I ain't never going to pass their test and try and change me now wouldn't ain't no good don't tread on me don't tread on me. Living wild and living free. I told you once, don't.

Speaker 11: Make me tell you twice.

Speaker 6: Don't tread on me, don't tread on me won't. And you don't bother me. Next time I might not be so nice. Yeah, next time I might not be so nice. Well, next time I won't be this nice.

Speaker 4: Very fine, very fine indeed. All right, let's let me sneak in the resistance news segment here. And Chris, I would say that the outstanding development which is still developing is in southern North Dakota.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 4: And the fight against the. Pipeline, which is slated to go under the Missouri River. Lots of native folks and their supporters their allies. This the Standing rock that's known by various names, but this becoming huge and maybe maybe it's signaling we're finally getting to deoksugung. Moving from the leftist dead end to. Seeing what it's really all about and seeing. People who are. Certainly resisting. OK, a few other things. August 18th incendiary device on the 110 Trans Santiago bus. In Santiago. Not too much in favor of people working and commuting and all that transport of mass society for a couple of weeks now. Up in what's called British Columbia, British Columbia, Vancouver Island. Escalating tactics against the feedlots against the fish farms up there that are killing wild salmon. Number of groups one and one I think is prominent, and I know I'm going to mangle the pronunciation, but. Miss gamag The water enochs. Those folks have been carrying on, and as I say, has been going on for at least two weeks. And in France, the various people firing fireworks at the cops and their helicopters. This anti nuclear waste thing in the muse. Unfortunately, the projectiles didn't reach the. Helicopter in question, but anti Nicks people stepping up stepping it up there and then.

Speaker 8: We'll give them an A for effort.

Speaker 4: Yeah, he's get bigger rockets next time. I guess . And in Spain August 22nd, hundreds of people blocked the N 620 highway in Salamancanti mining. Protest against an Australian corporation that has started construction for uranium.

Speaker 8: Did you say anti mining? Because I have a couple rockets saved. For that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the mind.

Speaker 5: So we've got a. We have a phone call.

Speaker 4: Just a second I'll be, yeah, if you can hang tight there just a couple more things straining training. My being strangers, that was true. Striking miners in Bolivia have apparently kidnapped and killed the country's deputy interior minister last Thursday. Mining action there. Work stoppage August 25th in the Amazon. This up in the Peruvian Amazon. Area stopping all mining activities quite a lot of anti. Extraction stuff here and there. This. They've lost their permit to make a Long story short, these activities have caused the government to revoke. The mining permit. So they've made it stop. Let's see one more, one or two more Montreal. East the Energy E pipeline. The big hearing about that was canceled after people stormed into the room. Let's see wave of anarchist graffitIn Melbourne down in Melbourne. Always a good sign when there's a whole lot of that going on and this in support of the current weeks International week of solidarity with anarchist prisoners, world world worldwide. And I wanted to mention Abdel Leilabdel Rahim's good friend. On the which side podcast episode 199, the current one. She is indiat the moment with the mutual friends of ours and the anarchist bookfair in Victoria coming up September 9th. Alrighty and call. Are you still with us?

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm still here.

Speaker 4: Great, great how you doing.

Speaker 3: Good, I was just I just heard that last song that was played and I'm a bit confused why Anarchist would be. It's more of a right wing thing. The whole don't tread on me and. And as far as the history goes of that slogan, I believe it. Comes on a flag that an old colonialist created for the Revolutionary War and it's. It just I know every everyone's anti slave and beyond left and right but celebrating a. Celebrating our famous Indian killer and slave owner flag is. weird for anarchists, if you're doing so, yeah, I'll just take my answer off off.

Speaker 8: No stay on there.

Speaker 3: If you guys want to discuss that, I'll get.

Speaker 8: Stay on there.

Speaker 3: Off to you.

Speaker 8: Well, I'll just say where the where the song came from, it mostly when I moved to this little town in Southern Oregon, I noticed a huge anti rural perspective coming from mostly urban people, mostly liberal left wing. Urban people who moved here and had such disdain for the rural people who lived there, and obviously like you could look at any. Any part of history and not only in this country, but all over the world, and you can trace it back to something colonialist or imperialist or messed up. But I noticed that leftists and liberals would cringe with anything that had the remote taste of right wing or not. Leftist sentiment. And I noticed my neighbors in particular would cringe with the don't tread on me flag. And I thought about it. And obviously it came from somewhere, but the sentiment. Behind it that I when I researched it wasn't the same one that the caller came up with. It was one of. I looked at some of the people who used that flag throughout history and the ones that I saw were people who, during the Revolutionary War times, not only were standing up against the British Empire, but we're also stating and we're not going to accept another power structure. Outside of ourselves to have jurisdiction over this place, so either we're going to have. Autonomy and so that's That's what it always meant to me. It is sung tongue, in cheek. I also know it tends to push some buttons and if that gets you to think about things in that way too, that's great. I have no problem pushing buttons I’m not. I'm not going to follow any PC party line and just because Wikipedia says that the flag has these tendencies. Or history that doesn't make it necessarily true. And if someone who actually. Was offended from a certain perspective. Not. Not anarchist who's who's looking out for other people, but actually their own personal history was offended by it. I might take, I might look at that a little more seriously, but.

Speaker 6: It's tongue in.

Speaker 8: Cheek on some level, and it's mostly to ****. Off the Liberals and. Leftists, which maybe? That last color was, I don't know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we can say all right. There you go. Well, I think we had another caller, but Carl has fled the studio. It's hard to say. I wonder what happened?

Speaker 8: There is another caller, I think.

Speaker 4: Well, we'll just have to wait. He's going to. Hook us up so.

Speaker 8: They probably don't like Hank Williams.

Speaker 4: He's complaining, I don't know. Well, I don't know if we'll get too much technology stuff. It's not a necessary segment anyway, but I thought this was interesting with the most high tech countries in the world. It's not the most high tech or wired country would be South Korea. Japan would be up there and others . But it's reading about Seoul. Is there a caller? No.

Speaker 5: No, no, that was it was Chris.

UNKNOWN: Oh no.

Speaker 5: He wanted to be let. Into the building. Building buildings all locked up. You know, as soon as they saw this guy, they got rotten coming in the building.

Speaker 6: Well, let's take that.

Speaker 5: It was they locked it down. And like sorry despite the.

Speaker 4: Well, I just wanted to mention something about so this as they started to say the in The Economist magazine for this month or this week. How dreadful it is, it's just amazing pollution. Air pollution story in the most high tech place and it's just now. How does that work? You know, we're we're so advanced, we just have transcended all this stuff somehow. You can't breathe air, it's just amazingly bad. It's up there with Delhi and Beijing. Well, now we do have.

Speaker 8: A car there but with self driving cars we don't. Need to breathe either right?

Speaker 4: Yeah, turn on the AC.

Speaker 5: This.

Speaker 4: This Greg Greg. Greg Greg.

Speaker 12: Hey John, the standing rock thing just for the listeners and possibly for you.

Speaker 4: Hi there, how are you?

Speaker 12: There was a the last counter spin. Which is a. Weekly broadcast through the Fair fair.org Fairness and accuracy in reporting. They interviewed one of the organizers of the Standing Rock camp and it is amazing and I would encourage everyone to find that. At the fair. If a fair.org and listen to the last most recent broadcast of counterspin.

Speaker 4: So that's like today's news.

Speaker 12: What's that?

Speaker 4: It's today virtually.

Speaker 12: I can barely hear you there.

Speaker 4: It's the latest news. Tell us about it.

Speaker 12: The latest broadcast of Counterspin, which you can find on thefair.org site.

Speaker 6: OK.

Speaker 4: Can you give us? Any hints?

Speaker 12: Yeah, It's.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 12: It's an interview with one of the organizers of the Standing Rock camp in North Dakota.

Speaker 4: Right, right?

Speaker 12: Yeah, and it, it's amazing. It's really worth hearing. Yeah, yeah, so I just I would. I'd like to invite everyone. To find out what?

Speaker 4: OK, but can you give us a quick take? What is your? Read in that.

Speaker 12: They're coming from a very spiritual place. And the spokes. The woman who was speaking on the show. It's very moving. I don't know. People should just listen to it I. I wouldn't want. To paraphrase it.

Speaker 4: OK, thanks very much Gray.

Speaker 12: Yeah, I hope I hope people find that and listen to it. Thanks John.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds really important. Wow, this makes it sound even better than what I was trying to get. The very latest stuff, but I know it's building and I have been hearing from people that intend to go there by the way and be there. That sounds very good. That's I look forward to hearing that ASAP.

Speaker 8: So the technology question, John. I think that for me is one of the one of the. Touch points that I think overlap a lot of the different anti civilization perspectives that I think. I think nihilists egoists primitivists can all agree what technology does to our lives, what it turns us into, what it, what it strips from our from our beings and I think it really is the most important question of the day. You know me, I appreciate your critique of symbolic. Thought I, I agree with it. I I thought about these things before I even met you and it was. That's why it was one of the great things when I met you we. We connected along those lines and the other ways of alienation in our lives and in the mediated ways we communicate and express ourselves. But technology is something that is unavoidable, and so I think one of the values of a primitivist perspective is that coming back to that over and over and over again, and I give you credit there, John. Because I mean, that's really where we're at. We're in the hyper technological age where It’s becoming difficult to see where. Human beings And machines like people are glorifying that blurring. And to me like to all over the place in. Pop culture in everywhere around you. They glorify that blurring of that edge, and I mean it was bad enough when the edge was clear. And to see people happily embrace that. It doesn't really offer me much hope.

Speaker 4: Well, I don't know how happy they are, but they it certainly is all consuming now. It's just so pervasive. It's so ubiquitous. I totally agree with you. It’s amazing and there it is. I wish. Actually, I wish more anarchists would take this. Up, yeah.

Speaker 8: I agree. I mean, I think we all have our own individual focuses, but that's something that's All in all of our faces in our lives.

Speaker 4: For sure.

Speaker 8: And when I left here 11 years ago, it was not nearly as bad as it has become in the past few years. It’s tremendous how how rapid the increase of the. Singularity is that what? What it what people have called it before?

Speaker 4: Yeah, some people are hoping for even more of it, so we can really get outside of the real world. Yeah, and one of the sort of madding things about it is it's not exactly a secret. There was a piece in the New York Post which is a horrible rag I understand on Saturday on the 27th about how iPad smartphones, Xboxes, and so forth are literally a digital drug and they would talk to various neuroscience. People and physicians. And it goes. Into the whole thing about what part of the brain? You know the dopamine levels, the neurotransmitters, and all, but the point is several of these people are calling it electronic cocaine or digital heroin. They become psychotic junkies. According to Doctor Nicholas Kardaras, you couldn't and that's like over the top, but these are the people that study the brain and what's going on. It's not like they're out there ginning up a lot of rhetoric, but it's that bad apparently. And we see it everywhere. You just like you were mentioning before the Pokémon Go thing where people are even more zombified than ever. Can't can't even do something like that without taking their eyes off the screen.

Speaker 8: I mean if they if they show up in my place playing Pokémon, I'm going to have to pull. Out my 45.

Speaker 6: It's good to.

Speaker 8: See a lot of them falling off. Cliffs and running into traffic but there's only so many that could be taken out. That way not enough more of a need. To drink coke.

Speaker 4: Meanwhile, these millennials I'm, I'm, smearing the whole thing by calling them millennials. But a new report from next Gen climate. It's for this in here global warming will cost millennials 8.8 trillion. So thanks to rising temperatures. We're all going to be dead and also poor.

Speaker 8: And stupid.

Speaker 4: And stupid I guess yes. Whoa, yeah.

Speaker 5: We'll have a rich virtual life.

Speaker 8: Nice, I mean I think that's part of a lot of people's, even if it's in the back of their mind, they're not consciously thinking this. I think a lot of people accept it because they realize how messed up the world is that they're in. And they just accept that’s what's going to happen. We're all just going to become this virtual world, and. Why fight it? And that to me. Is is sad.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just. I mean, we're we're in that box too. You know, we're. Here we are. In the studio here with Carl and doing this.

Speaker 8: The robot you're.

Speaker 5: Right I try.

Speaker 4: We call him Carl.

Speaker 8: You upgraded the model. The next Carl #5.

Speaker 5: The slightly grayer model silver highlights.

Speaker 4: Yeah, unshaven. Looks somewhat human even. Yeah, I mean we're all trapped in it.

Speaker 8: We are, we are and I don't. I don't fault any in particular in anyone in particular, or even . I used. To I traveled this winter and I used to get so upset at the airport when I'd see whole families on their iPods, just like eating food. Using their device not communicating with each other and it flashed on me. And this maybe is a nihilistic tendency, but it flashed on me like why even why am I going to bother getting? Upset, like all the sheep are walking off the Cliff with their iPod in their hands and there's I'm not going to try to save them like they obviously are fine. That they're. They're OK with it, so all I can do. Is offer my critique live my own life? You know my kids. I have a two me and my partner have two daughters and we live off the grid in the woods and I'm not saying this a solution either. This what we're choosing to do, but we're not hooked to devices. You know we don't. The screens aren't really a part of our, they’re an oddity in our life that we occasionally interface with, but It’s by far the exception. And to me I feel I enter the zone where that's not the case and it is hard to deal with. I mean, I used to joke and going to Babylon, but really like it does have an effect on me.

Speaker 4: Yeah, and to try to keep a cool head. Because yeah, you can. Freak out every minute, but oh, I know. I used to yell at people and now you couldn't do that, you'd just be carted away. I mean you, you would be a nut job to. Tell somebody to shut up when they're talking in your. Ear on the phone.

Speaker 8: Cahoots would be on you in. A second.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's crazy. I remember being in the post office years ago and I yelled at this guy, does this look? Like a phone. Booth too well. Now of course it's a phone booth.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I used to get mad at the yuppies when I worked in a deli and they'd be ordering their food to me, telling me telling me what they want, talking to their partner on the phone, having conversations, asking me if.

Speaker 4: You know it's.

Speaker 8: There's peanuts in. It and that was 15 years ago. And it's only gotten so much worse.

Speaker 4: Yeah, more total somebody here.

Speaker 5: Yes, we have Tracy on the line.

Speaker 4: Tracy hello Tracy.

Speaker 8: 15 years ago so hey John.

Speaker 4: Ah, Tracy. I was hoping it was the Tracy I was thinking of. How are you?

Speaker 7: Yeah, we saw each other at the stall.

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah I was telling wanting that.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I wonder if you met with Dana today.

Speaker 4: No, no, I always think about her. She's in town, huh?

Speaker 7: Well, I don't really have much to say except poverty and not being of the technical age or and the Standing Rock deal. So I don't really have a lot to add, but I wanted to let I was listening. And rottens music.

Speaker 8: Thank you.

Speaker 4: Wow, yeah.

Speaker 7: I'm very excited about the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation and the solidarity with other Indian nations. I think that it's revolutionary because. That's that's where we should be standing behind. To protect the earth. So I'm just really twitterpated about it.

Speaker 4: Very good.

Speaker 7: I didn't know I was on the air. High rotten.

Speaker 8: Hello and I thank you. I think they're going to John's going to play one more song.

Speaker 7: You sound good.

Speaker 8: At the end of. The show and you could and you can check out the distilled Spirit rebellion and that's the band I play with and I'm and I hate to plug plug my band.

Speaker 7: OK, good.

Speaker 8: But we're also on. I guess ReverbNation.

Speaker 7: Whatever that is. Oh yeah, well, I'm I live outside and it's hard to stay in power and I want to also say the homeless community is very face to face because we don't. We don't do Facebook, .

Speaker 4: Well, you're right.

Speaker 8: And I, and I think that’s a getting back to that, too, is like the one thing . We shed ourselves with the ideology that separates us and the technology that separates us and what we have left our relationships. And the more I believe at least the more authentic those relationships can be, the better off we're going to be both in ourselves. Our own personal our spirit, for lack of better terms. What we can create together any problems we may have with one another are going to be more obvious and maybe able to be dealt with in real ways. That's so. So for me, it's always about coming back to their relationships with each other.

Speaker 7: Ohh I find that inspiring and I'm glad. I heard it.

Speaker 4: And you do great work, Tracy, thank you for calling us.

Speaker 7: All right, take care you guys bye.

Speaker 1: See you.

Speaker 4: Well, maybe you should or you need a minute. To get going.

Speaker 5: It's almost a big old anarchy radio reunion, where's Dana?

Speaker 4: OK, well if we run out of time, you're thanks for joining us tonight. I'll be here next.

Speaker 8: Well, it sure has been fun. It's been a nice reunion. I remember last time I was in. Town a couple of. Years ago were all in front of the new day bakery. After a night of night of inviting in the spirits and bill, that's the name right over any bakery he. Saw us all and. He was like what is this anarchist reunion? And I said, yeah, but we're nicer these. Days which window? Do you want broken? We didn't break any windows. Someone's kid broke a plant, I think. Anyway, here's a Tom Waits song that I love to play because it reminds me of our. It brings it back home.

Speaker 6: What doesn't matter? Love all lies. We're all going to be in the same place when we die. Your spirit only knowing your face, say your name. When do your bones. Is all that remains. We're all gonna be we're all gonna be yeah be all gonna be yeah we're all gonna be just turning the ground turning the ground turning the ground. From a Buzzard, blood writes the word I wanna know my skyra bird because hail's bowling over heaven is full. We changed the world. We all gotta pull we're all gonna be out gonna be yeah. Hey I'm gonna be yeah we're all gonna be just a gram gram gram. The killer was my. There's made a stone climb the stairs, the gallows grown. The people's houses were pounding and throbbing in red. He swung over the crowd. The Hangman, saying we're all gonna be yay all gonna be, yeah. Yeah, we're all gonna be just turning in grand grand during the grand. We can't sleep. People killed him with a stone sky, cracked open Thunder grown along the river of flesh and dry bones live has came over bigger. The answer they'll give? We're all going to be. Yeah, we're all going to be yeah, we're all going to be. Yeah, we're all gonna be just judging the ground judging the ground during the ground. I said we're all. Gonna be just dirt in the ground. I said we're all gonna be dirt in the ground I said we're all gonna be dirt in the ground I said we're all gonna be just dirt in the ground dirt in the ground, dirt in the ground.

Speaker 9: Hi, this Ozzy Osbourne. For many years, I've had a drink problem. I’m trying to battle that problem every. One day, but one thing I don't do, I don't drive my car when I'm drinking, I get someone to drive me, to, not drink and drive me. It's the stupidest thing if you drink. Just don't drive. Not only are you gonna hurt yourself, you may hurt some other person and you wouldn't want that on your conscience, would you?

Speaker 13: A public service announcement brought to you by the US Department of Transportation rate, the National Association of Broadcasters and the AD Council.

UNKNOWN: Every hiring manager knows that a company is only as good as the people.

Speaker 8: It's made from.

UNKNOWN: So where do you find the best?

Speaker 8: People that may surprise you.

Speaker 10: Meet the grads of life. Young adults have unique determination and experience. An ideal fit for your company in an entry level, position, internship or even mentorship. They might not. Have every qualification you typically look for. They're exactly who your company needs.

Speaker 8: This talent worth knowing about.

Speaker 10: Go to gradsoflife.org to learn how to find, cultivate and train this great pool of untapped talent brought to you by the ad Council and gradsoflife.org.

Speaker 14: When I grow up. I want to be a new pair of blue jeans when I grow up. I want to be a kids first. Place on. I want a big. I want to be a bike that races around the country. I want to be a bench on a forest trail when I grow up. I don't want to be a piece of garbage and if you recycle me I won't be.

Speaker 12: Give your garbage another life.

08-23-2016

[audio]

"Lo and Behold," Herzog's fine critique of the high-tech pitch. Read my "Meaning in the Age of Nihilism." A-p reply to the ITS-type "The Calusa: A Savage Kingdom." "Dispossess" and the anti-primitivist anarchists who claim to be anti-civilization. "Hand Writing Just Doesn't Matter." (Samsung refrigerator) ad of the week.. Resistance news, one call.

08-16-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Role of Anarchy Radio. Tattered spectacle: Rio follies. Milwaukee uprising. July hottest ever, Californiablaze, explosive rains seen globally. Yellow fever to follow Zikas scourge as tech marches forward. More violence in all directions. Anarchist responses in terms of projects e.g. architecturally? Artificial light weakens us. Action news, three calls.

08-09-2016

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Rio Olympics debacle. Eco-Nihilist critique of Black and Green Review. "Fifty States of Anxiety." Varieties of violence. Despite phone problems, 4 calls; 2 counseled more attention to affirmative projects. Brain-eating amoeba, complexity=breakdown. Resistance news.

08-02-2016

[audio]

Who is "JZ"? Troll of the week. Debord: ideas should be used up in battle. Aragorn! on internet and anarchism. Flash flooding, heat waves. New Panama Canal not big enough for bloated globalization. Mass shootings 50 years old. Cannibal gulls, space travel bad for hearts. Action news, two calls (AR,MO). Good faith interaction with anarcho-primitivism: let's have some. Reminder: deadline looms for BAGR submissions.

07-26-2016

[audio]

My "Concluding Anti-History Postscript." Istanbul anarchist on post-coup situation in Turkey. Cop shooting of the week. Water woes, "natural" disasters? Are we at the end of anarchism? Done in by technology and nihilism? "Binge TV Watching Can Kill You." Ads of the week. Merger mania. Wild birds help African foragers find honey. "Depression is a Disease of Civilization." by Sara Burrow. How to set a Fire and Why by Jesse Ball.

07-19-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Vets shoot cops in Dallas, Baton Rouge. "terrorist" label too easy. Much discussion of nihilism in general and ITS-type nihilism in particular. More hiding in dis-abling, dis-connecting technology. Facebook aims at total planetary reach; drive to produce synthetic 'human' genome. Hello Kitty infantile consumer culture. More tech, even more epidemics. Anarcho-primitivism the target of those who preach giving up.

07-12-2016

[audio]

Less Afghanistan troop removal, more to go to Iraq. 5 white cops killed in Dallas, dominant society goes crazy; 9 blacks killed Charleston church last year, not a crisis. Billboard of the week (China): "Civilization is the Most Beautiful Scenery!" Computer perception requires reality to change, not the machine. "What Americans Drawn to ISIS Have in Common." World's lakes, forests drying up, dying off. Action news, 3 calls. Recording failure: last 14 minutes lost.

07-05-2016

[audio]

Fear of slaves, indigenous evident in Declaration of Independence. Adventures in podcasting; Hillary-booster Chomsky declines dialog with JZ. "No Going Back" - really? Rio Olympics "catastrophe". The answer to VR's fake world? More VR! New ITS interview: same no-hope-ism. Income inequality still growing. Floridatlantic coast fouled, global air worsens, dam-building craze continues. Ad of the Week (afiniti). Fine report on Fireflies gathering. Action news, three calls.

06-28-2016

[audio]

Brexit - phoney anti-globalization. The "anti-globalization" movement at its peak 15 years ago. Nihilism and its close cousin, post-modernism. Peak sand? Local fat cats cash in as poor lose health coverage. Eugene Anarchists for Torrey (2000). Europe's growing army of robots may become "electronic persons." Internet "Stirs grief...we're all more alone than ever," Virginia Heffernan. Man marries phone in Las Vegas. Ad of the week (Cylance), one call.

06-21-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts, at new KWVA digs. Cities sizzle, California burning. Orlando, etc: Why Does This Keep Happening??" asks Obama, but not anarchists(?) ITS/RS pro- claim dead-end nihilist meaninglessness. Hunting for alien life i.e. tech life(!) Have a "true African cultural experience": go on a safari to see hunter-gatherers in Tanzania (!) "Russian Robot Gets a Few Hours Freedom after Escaping a Lab(!) Shanghai Disney opens: truly "cross-cultural"(!) Action news, upcoming events. One call, two attempted calls.

06-14-2016

[audio]

Orlando massacre, related enveloping violence. Fearful, anxious children. Failure of anarchy to face challenge, offer analysis. Internet of Everything not succeeding, not even arriving. "Hobbit" species seafaring 700,000 years ago. PTSD - even war preferable to dead civilian life. Center for Applied Rationality - think like a computer! "The End of Reflection" by Teddy Wayne. One call, resistance news.

06-07-2016

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Muhammed Ali - how out of fashion. Varieties of violence and heat. "Kill button" for robots? Already internal one for species? VR better than this "grey reality." Fabulous new products: LucidCatcher e-headband for dream control, Bedtime VR Stories for remote parenting. Action news, one call.

05-31-2016

[audio]

Memorial Day and our FREEDOMS. Giant Fort McMurray fire unleashes contaminants. Trump=Fascism?? Transgressing species divides with Thos. Thwaites and Chas. Foster. The Four Dimensional Human by Laurence Scott. Last resort antibiotics failing, world's biggest dam slated for Congo. Great Barrier Reef dying - Australia tries to censor UN report. One call, resistance news, ads of the week.

05-24-2016

[audio]

Most insane product of the week : smart shoes. Facebook follies - who does JZ's? (not JZ). Political dis-integration? Paiutes vs. liberal "defender"? Huel (like Soylent); Fast Food Aid in Tokyo (to junk food eaters). Horrors of pollution india. Heat, emissions rising sharply. Ad of the week (Cisco), resistance briefs. Utter irrelevance of new issue of Anarchy magazine. Four calls.

05-17-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Movement in Brazil, zika virus globalizing. Rydra's statement at anews. RS-type arson in Helsinki: nihilism. Role of the spirit. World cities and air pollution. Anti-civ comics at gabbysplayhouse.org. Action news. Four calls.

05-10-2016

[audio]

Canada burning, nihilism spreads (e.g. Rome bombed by RS-type group, suicide rate climbing). The usual eco disasters, weasel brings Large Hadron Collider to halt. VR sex suit unveiled in Japan, VR used to treat severe paranoia - one flight from reality replaced by another. Robots R Us, ISIS collapsing? Stabbing sprees in past two days. Inner peace options: Dalai Lama or smartphone app. BAGR#3 out this week. Resistance briefs.

04-26-2016

[audio]

No broadcast next week (5/3) due to travel. Earth Day? There's an app for that. Shootings, recalls news. Suicide rate climbing, life expectancy slipping. Read my "Modernity Takes Over." DeLillo's "Zero K" novel questions tech's ultimate claims. Lies about urbanism courtesy of techno-ideology.

04-19-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Quakes in Japand Ecuador: crushed by civilization. A nihilist talk in Portland. AK Press won't carry BAGR, Zerzan. "A New Dark Age Looms" as warming reaches ever new heights e.g. year-round fire season. Anti-civ perspective grows. Minecraft, chatbots, wacko high-tech ads. "Connectography: Mapping the Future of Global Capitalism." Tasty action briefs, calls from Arkansas and Ohio.

04-12-2016

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Virtual Reality and other tech colonization, impoverishment. Digital sweatshops. Scary water news world-wide. Indigenous suicides in Canada spike. High-tech Ads of the Week. Social media hold-outs, drop-outs. Action reports. Superb spring issue of Earth First! Journal. Order Black and Green Review!

04-05-2016

[audio]

Obesity reversing life expectancy, "Global Warming Making U.S. Sick." Fear is endemic, future seen more and more negatively. Emojis are "the new language of theart," kids learn less due to technology. OD's spread, Zika heads north. more train accidents despite new tech, Great Barrier Reef dying, Antarctica ice melting faster. Resistance news, three calls.

03-29-2016

[audio]

(The first two or three minutes of the broadcast did not get recorded.) Report on Rojava: Paul Z. Simons in studio. Radical developments in northern Syria discussed, also collapse, nihilism, what is at stake. 2.7% of American kids are healthy, 3/4 of UK kids are outside less than prison inmates. AI-produced novel almost wins Ja- panese literary prize. Eugene Morozov: tech firms now run things, not govts. Action news, two calls.

03-22-2016

[audio]

Primitivist week at anarchistnew.org. Postmodern twins: Trump and Aragorn!. Self-lacing sneakers, wired homes that "listen," automatic brakes vs. Marshall Islanders who've navigated for thousands of years without instruments. Infectious diseases increase, traffic everywhere worsens. Huawei ad: Decades of patient investment for a moment of divine clarity." Resistance news.

03-15-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. My Arcata gig. Time to kick Trump ass? Ads of the week. The Age of Fact is Over: postmodernism and technology have erased the quest for truth. Pigs being offed, for a change. Increasing obesity, diabetes. UK is fragmenting, isolation rise. Seas rising faster than thought, action news.

03-08-2016

[audio]

Recent gigs: Tucson, E-Law (our BAGR panel, horrid DGR recruitment effort); on to Arcata 3/11. "The End of American Idealism", "Use of Heroin Plain View." Killer germs, "Seeking a Zika Dividend." Robot art critic and other Stupid Tech Tricks. China most dire, South Korea's juvenile pop culture, Fiji sinking, lithium batteries exploding. Action news.

02-23-2016

[audio]

A single Universal Time coming? Seattle trip (Left Bank Books evening). Interview with traditional O'odham resister, Ofelia Rivas; Upcoming Speakers Series in Tucson. Toxic blooms head north; seas rising, heating faster; selfies kill dolphin. Action news, Kesey Square fight (Eugene), three calls.

02-16-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Zika virus may be caused by anti-mosquito larvacide(!) Science/tech claims/projections so often fail. Scaliand "the Air We breathe." Records fall: wild tem-perature swings in US. Mekong Delta gravely imperiled. Rampage shootings - now in Saudi Arabia. GPS, etc. "erode our cognitive maps." Action news, one call.

02-09-2016

[audio]

82 degrees on Oregon coast February 8. The stink of big money everywhere. Adorno on freedom; Mandylas on nihilism. Recall mania, runaway pollution, suicide stories. Results of stress; the joke of voting. "Facebook friends almost entirely false." App of the week, re-sistance briefs.

02-02-2016

[audio]

Zika scourge spreads. "The End of Food Has Arrived, Finally" (Soylent); "my" Facebook page; new ITS communique. Nihilism, decadence.. Google now #1 in the world; Coca-Cola Pushes into Africa. Bolivia's second-largest lake is gone; US urban homelessness rises. Microsoft wants to cool big servers in ocean - but it won't add to ocean warming! Action news.

01-26-2016

[audio]

Cliff is back! (No stream/radio signal first 15 minutes.) Marvin Minsky: death of a techno-nazi. Killings in prehistory (E. Africa): hunter-gatherers or domesticators? GMO monkeys in China: how to confront autism(!) Mass recalls, Zika virus surges, plastics swamp oceans, record addiction levels. Anarchistnews suppresses Anarchy Radio. Action news, one call.

01-19-2016

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. More on Malheur occupation: govt. bows to white racist scumbags. 62 own as much as 3 billion others Massive gas leak in San Fernando Valley? Air as bad in rest of LA! Nightclubs fading out in Europe. Japanese addicted to cutesy mascots, retreat to tiny VR spaces. Tesla creates full-body VR: no unpleasant outside reality. Why journal? An app can do that. Scary health news. Action briefs, two calls.

01-12-2016

[audio]

Read "Decadence and the Machine." Right-wing occupiers in e. Oregon, David Brooks predicts "giant cultural explosion" from millennials, new opera composers are dystopian. Whales beaching globally, record heat wave in S. Africa, friendlessness=ill health, etc. Action news, one call.

01-05-2016

[audio]

Reactions to AR and JZ. anarchistnews.org - how to run? Gerald Vizenor in Black Seed!? McDonald's as China's new community; Raccoons Invade Brooklyn; School make kids standardized - and sick. An app to prevent deforestation. Supermines. Rush to exploit Antarctica. Adorno: "The freedom in philosophy is nothing but the capacity to lend a voice to its unfreedom." Key question - What does that unfreedom consist of? Resistance news.

2015

12-29-2015

[audio]

Anarchist discourse--is there more than conversation? Animal Theory by Derek Ryan--how to ignore everything that counts. Urban air worsening everywhere. Weather getting more "freakish," murders by cops, murder-suicides this week. Data replaces reality, silent headphones, an app for break-ups. Coloring books for the stressed-out. Blocks beat e-toys for learning. Resistance briefs, two calls.

12-22-2015

[audio]

Special guest Alice: our Czech outing (Brno Eko Film festival and four days in Prague). Jihad as community, "anti growth" lies, more China horrors, industrial breakdown in LA. "Handwritten" notes in the digital age, complete vulnerability of online energy grid. Re- sistance news. "How iPhones Ruin Your Posture and Your Mood."

12-15-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. COP21 - the usual fraud. Shootings - NOT about guns. Free Radical Radio and East Bay Anarchist Book Fair. Jackson Hole, China. The friendless dance with food. Failures of tech health. Action medley, ads of the week.

12-01-2015

[audio]

Iand Jeriah filling in for JZ--- ISIS recruits find Western ideals to be empty, Planned Parenthood shooting and the antiabortion movement, Zuckerberg and tech titans band together to save the world(!), property rights and asteroids, nihilism and egoism.

11-24-2015

[audio]

Soon to Brno and Prague; Iand Jeriah next week. More on Houellebecq's Submission (the void in the West). 350.org psychosis, Bellamy's death drive diagnosis of anarchists. More: illiteracy, resistance to drug efficacy, recalls, whales beaching, mining dams disasters, VR nausea, nukes and cloning in China. Resistance news. One (off-air) call.

11-17-2015

[audio]

Kathan here. Paris massacre: nihilism, Houllebecq and Islam, colonial history, everyday "terrorism" in US, the void of techno society. Tech is always the answer; as avoidance, as that which generates problems. Ads of the week, cartoon of the week, action briefs, one call.

11-10-2015

[audio]

"Tribal Survival" film by Thomas Toivonen. Urban survey (e.g. toxic London fog returns), U. of Missouri protests, cop shootings, resistance news. Tecumseh on postmodern avoidance. Phoney XL Pipeline issue, "Despair, American Style." Three calls.

11-10-2015

[audio]

"Tribal Survival" film by Thomas Toivonen. Urban survey (e.g. toxic London fog returns), U. of Missouri protests, cop shootings, resistance news. Tecumseh on postmodern avoidance. Phoney XL Pipeline issue, "Despair, American Style." Three calls.

11-03-2015

[audio]

More on dying alone. Extreme weather on rise as oceans over-heat. Mexico City air pollution + Alzheimer's in children(!) Latest Reaccion Salvaje (RS) document - two discussions on violence, hope. Ideological language, misuses of. Illnesses mount; mortality among middle-class whites rises. Tech ads of the week, three calls.

10-27-2015

[audio]

Kathan aboard. Ad of the week: IBM's "outthink" series. Horse Nations by Peter Mitchell. Edward Butynski's copper mines photos, implications. Action news. Zizek, shootings, recalls, sad techo end for old people, world pollution. New Sesame St. character is autistic. One call.

10-20-2015

[audio]

Again, "To Change Everything?" Being Human, edited by Broglio + Young: an "animal turn" in philosophy? Alaska governor says drilling in protected Arctic "urgently" needed to pay for climate change costs (!!) Dire water news from all over, urban homelessness emergencies. "The Lonely Death of George Bell", zero privacy or e-security. Ad of the week, action news.

10-13-2015

[audio]

"To Change Everything" tour...everything? "Dedications" by Adrienne Rich. Technology is "the world telling its own story." 50 lane freeways in China, SE Asia burning. Turkle's phoney "Reclaiming Conversation" book. Resistance news.

10-06-2015

[audio]

Three-way conversation among Urban Scout, Kevin Tucker and JZ about rewilding projects and outlooks, Two calls, two emails.

09-29-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Utne's "Curtain Call" - more join the ranks of the no-hopesters. Popester visits US. Latest family slaughter: 6 dead in So. Dakota today. More, hotter droughts + fires means forests won't recover. The Age of Intelligent Cities - lunacy of the week. "Let's Not Move to Mars" a touch of sanity. Action news, two calls.

09-22-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Utne's "Curtain Call" - more join the ranks of the no-hopesters. Popester visits US. Latest family slaughter: 6 dead in So. Dakota today. More, hotter droughts + fires means forests won't recover. The Age of Intelligent Cities - lunacy of the week. "Let's Not Move to Mars" a touch of sanity. Action news, two calls.

09-15-2015

[audio]

California burning, Pinker at it again his blind defense of civilization. Many amazingly insulting Ads of the Week. Homo naledi: buries its dead almost 3 million years ago, looks like us. 1 million UK oldsters haven't spoken to anyone in a month. Civ makes us stupid, isolated Action news.

09-08-2015

[audio]

Anti-cop blow-back heightens. Future drought/fires aimed at oil/gas pipelines. Unprecedented sandstorm covers Middle East - not a "natural" disaster. "The End of the Tour" - David Foster Wallace story. Political/civic institutions flailing. Medicalization of alienation, denial of arriving catastrophe. Man kicks robot, action news. Two calls,

09-01-2015

[audio]

Off the Pig (it's happening). Reviewed: Behold the Black Caiman, Rush Hour, Speak, Geek Heresy, Purity. New Orleans fantasy safeguard, only $14.5 billion. Next: mining the seabeds(!). Dating yourself: the answer to isolation. Action news.

08-25-2015

[audio]

Rydra, of Free Radical Radio fame, co-hosts: history and theory of FRR, what's up with SF Bay Areanarchy, report on Seattle Anarchist Book Fair. Remove those unsightly sweat glands (Sweat Experts), this week's round of modern disasters, tech ads of the week, action briefs, two calls. anews.org. Tech failures abound, up with internet hold-outs and fiber optic saboteurs. Action briefs.

08-18-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. China explodes, oceans worsening, glaciers disappearing. Amazon workers at breaking point. ISIS winning in meaningless modernity. Internet killing activity, says 'worker', leaving anews.org. Tech failures abound, up with internet hold-outs and fiber optic saboteurs. Action briefs.

08-11-2015

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. DGR, Jensen exhumed, exposed. Industrial disaster of the week, ad of the week, mass murders of the week. Escalators, cars fail, dementia in one's 40s grows likelier. Techno manipulation at ever deeper levels. Ec Machina discussion, one call.

08-04-2015

[audio]

Western US ablaze; oceans weakening. Signs of ascendant anarcho-primitivism. The Wayfarers as classic cop-out. "Primitivism as the New Opium for the Masses: Reading Zerzan through Zizek." Kurds, too, prey of ISIS fundamentalism. Online panopticon, window to one's consumer soul. Sex, love with robots approaches as the virtual proceeds. Resistance briefs.

07-28-2015

[audio]

In the Words of Elders excerpts. Fredy Perlman, d. 7/26/85. Whither the "Rojava Revolution"? Industrial devastation; warming, rising, acidifying oceans. National Parks pollution, salmon dying, mass shootings. Black & Green Review. Festival of Code vs. Forvilda (Rewilding) camp. Action news, two calls.

07-21-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Horse Nations by Peter Mitchell. Cops have killed 634 this so far. Anarchist news.org and toxic posts, Earth First! Rendezvous and disruption. Kayaktivists paddle while Earth dies. Laruelle: Against the Digital by Alexander Galloway. Action briefs, one call.

07-14-2015

[audio]

Collapse of leftist fakery in Greece, the 4-hour tech collapse last Wednesday. 'Terrorism' toll in perspective. Free Radical Radio interview with Bob Black. Re- call fever; water warming fever; decimation of birds, including fowl; Canada burning. Early humans cook with fire, Nicholas Carr's The Glass Cage. Action news.

07-07-2015

[audio]

"When I Say Anti-Civilization," Wall St. Dead Heads. My latest archaeology piece. Google IDs blacks as gorillas, "Does Giving Control to Machines Make Us Freer?" Resistance briefs, two calls.

06-30-2015

[audio]

Derrick Jensen's "Resistance[!] Radio," robots marry in Tokyo, "To Our Friends" again. "Face It, Your Brain Is a Computer," sitting causes anxiety, Museum of Boulders. Heat waves, "Golden Age of Pathogens," action news.

06-23-2015

[audio]

"To Our Friends" - important tech critique. It's Goin' Down - alternative to anarchistnews. org? Anti-civ essays at Ritual. Appeal of ISIS. 60 million refugees, eco-crisis deepens. Resistance briefs, three calls.

06-16-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Invisible Committee on technology, The Atlantic's "All the Happy Workers." Uncivilized Animals spears Graeber: "David Wants to Fly." Virtuality madness, techno-"health." Ads of the week, action news.

06-09-2015

[audio]

Hacking, fracking, warming, polluting. "Ex Machina." Oxford Junior Dictionary loses nature words. Sandinistas push mega Canal, rightists applaud. Action reports. MERS hits S. Korea, daily cop ugliness, toxic artificial lawns. Fire Alarm!

06-02-2015

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Weather ever more severe; species, drugs, technology failing, 3-D printer for a new world? FIFA scandal, "The Robots Are Winning." Modernity exposed; an end can be seen, contra Zizek. Action news, announcements, two calls.

05-26-2015

[audio]

Stone tools 3.3 million years ago: the start of human (non-symbolic) culture. Oil spills. Cops still killing; others going off, too. Read "Not So Close Encounters." "Agency" project, new AJODA. Action news, "health" briefs. One call.

05-19-2015

[audio]

"Mad Max" or viva the end of civ? Gender equality among hunter-gatherers - new study. Phila. Train wreck, continuing failure of technology. Fracking rolls on, over voters. No rhinos left? Action news. Politics of book fairs. Kathan co-hosts!

05-12-2015

[audio]

Pro sports and Collapse, Sea Levels Rising Faster, invisible obesity. Another Oil Train Goes Up in Flames, more trees dying globally. "If We Want Power Everywhere..." holo- gram protestors, younger and younger stroke victims. Action news briefs.

04-21-2015

[audio]

Kathan on board! Rick Bartow art, a don't- miss. Conversation with LaylabdelRahim about her Children's Literature, Domestication, and Social Foundation. Disease outbreaks, industrial breakdowns. Action news, three calls.

04-14-2015

[audio]

Zoltan for President! Microsoft Cloud Turns Data into Excitement! Human satnav tells legs where to go, "Ex Machina": Embrace the Machine! Anxiety, teen suicides, Siberian methane on rise. Lots of resistance around the world.

04-07-2015

[audio]

Cliff and a well-tanned JZ co-host. Nicholas Carr's The Glass Cage on automated life. Ads of the week, new industrial disasters, compounding the California drought. Nihilism=niceism? Action briefs, two calls.

03-31-2015

[audio]

Guest host Dane. Review of BAGR, Fifth Estate, and anarchist media. Are infoshops/radical spaces important ? Eugene Infoshop. Upcoming anarchist bookfair. Synthetic pesticides=ecological destruction. Marxist/Capitalist Dalai Lama. "This Artificial Life" music project and Spanish-language songs too. No calls.

03-24-2015

[audio]

Invisible Committee buffoonery. Action news briefs. Fierce Dreams on nihilism. Visitors by Godfrey Reggio. WIRED: Sex in the Digital Age. Drought crises, more shootings than ever. Lang Gore's Hunting Seasons novel, now as audio book. Three calls.

03-17-2015

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Civilized "health care" and ebola, trans-species health crisis. More on egoism e.g. 'grounding' is authoritarian?? No more circus elephants, bemoaned by domesticators. John Gray trashes S. Pinker's "Better Angels" nonsense. Endless list of pigs murdered by the pigs; 4 cops shot last week. Action news, one call.

03-10-2015

[audio]

Bellamy from Free Radical Radio for the hour. Egoism, Jason McQuinn, nihilism dissected. "I'm surprised more anarchists have not adopted the term 'anti-left' to describe themselves," a South African listener. Godfrey Reggio interview on Sin- gularity website; anthropology corner.

03-03-2015

[audio]

"Light" reading. Latest pig murders and rampage shootings. The hilarious Freedom Club at UNC. Free Radical Radio interview of Jason McQuinn and discussion. More dis-ease news, severe weather news, action news, calls from Ohio, California.

Speaker 1: Views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 2: Yes, you're listening to KWVA Eugene where it is time for anarchy radio right now in the studio with John at 541-346-0645 and we'll be taking calls in just a couple minutes. But first, I think we have a. I think there's. A call already.

Speaker 3: Through the far away sound, the war is declared and. Battle come down. The world come out of the. Calling that don't look. Only Videomania is better. We ain't got no. Swings, except for the rain.

Speaker 4: Felt down expected.

Speaker 3: To the imitation zone. Forget it brother, you can go it alone to the zombies. And I don't want a sentence. But while were talking, I saw you nothing else. We ain't got no high except for. That one with the yellow eyes.

UNKNOWN: A nuclear.

Speaker 3: Error, but I have no clear.

Speaker 1: And oldie biddy goody The class is indeed Our Calling. 5413460645 but don't call just yet. I'm going to read something that I just finished and I think that. It's worthwhile once in a while to. Have something that's more direct, less sort. Of political conceptual. So I'm going to jump into that in just a second. Kathleen will be here in two weeks on her regular third Tuesday date and next week. Going to have Dan Todd, also known as Lang Gore on the line. We're going to have. And exceptor 2 from the audio book version of his hunting season's novel is now available. That away and. And so we're going to talk about that a little bit. Live from Tucson. All right? Yeah, I've got this piece. It'll just be called simply light. like silence. If any of you. Saw that one. So yeah, if you want to call. Please do, but I'm going to try to get through. This first. Simple, supremely commonplace, ever present this light that is nowhere else and everywhere else? Life giving living. It is the aura of each winding day and also a dimension. A key to our place in nature. No accident. That a yearned for revelation state destination seems always depicted with dramatic light. Present at the origin of light and omnipresent within it the 9th century Duns SCOTUS Erigena declared that all it is light. Coextensive with the air we breathe, and yet nothing is less than all or neutral. In our experience we are in it, and it evades our attempts to grasp it. Light is mad. It gathers and scatters and arrives in all guises according to time, place and countless other condition. Light pervades our senses and meanings to an unparalleled degree. We want to be seen in a good light. I have seen the light enlightened rather than benighted. Like the ripening dawn, it has dawned on me. Matthew Arnold coined the phrase sweetness and light for what we strive toward. Luxurious comes from Lux Latin for light. Lucid similarly. We know what is meant, even if all of us all of life season feels like differently. Many kinds of light to be sure. Yet John Keats asked. For what has made the sage or poet write. But the fair paradise of nature's light. A plant in the cellar will grow towards the light. That light whose smile Kindles the universe, wrote Percy Biss Shelley. The light of which Anima sings copious's stars in Gladys Morning Light recounted Walt Whitman. Gertie's last words were more light, more light. Our planet's fundamental rhythm is the alternation of light and dark day and night. Sunlight is basic to all terrestrial life. Less obvious is the fact that we once responded with delight and wonder. To the radiance of Sun, moon and stars. In an intimacy with such celestial bodies, how this has changed? As Ralph Waldo Emerson put it. The sun illuminates only the eye of the man. But shines into the eye and theart. Of the child. Domesticated we have been turned away from this communion, but in a sense we also still worshipped the son. Thou son of this great world, both I and soul, in John Milton's words. The sun is a bright galvanizing point, and for some a center of incomparable value. From the warmed primordial ocean, we are the Sun's children. We are made out of sunlight, even if we mainly take for granted its unbounded gifts. Excuse me, one SEC. Hey, could you shut the door please? There we go. Is bugged slightly by that? Luminous, luminous where sun bitten and it's downpouring Ojibway writer Theresa Smith describes being on a rock as the Sun broke upon her. I felt I was going to be able to live a new life from that moment. Who is going to be able to move into a new light? The unmediated sun can cleanse and heal. Our own solar power and vitamin D. Seasonal affective disorder is, of course, lack of sun. Lawrence Durrell summed it up pure affirming sun. Again the sun anew each day and new and new that comes into and steadies my soul, proclaimed Marianne Moore. Walt Whitman observed that it burst through and unlooked for directions. Busy old fool, unruly son according to the sun rising by John Dunn, the Sun knows secrets goes on past the ends of thoughts. The shadows, its creations hide nothing. Cummings noted that this amber Sunstream with an hour to live flows carelessly and does not save itself. Rulers, at least from the Pharaohs of Egypt down to France, France's son King Louis the 14th, have identified themselves with the son. There are also countless associations culturally between Sun and agriculture slash domestication. Just as there are even more sun references minus that connection, including men many sundances. A Seneca story. However, three brothers who followed the son has it that the son loves war. In the context of growing tobacco and corn. Coextensive with the very air we breathe. Light is also commonly linked to spirit in many traditions and religions. In the 14th century BC, Akhenaten. Offered a famous hymn to the sun God at the beginning of monotheism. A theme in Chinese religion is. The idea of objects, places or mythical beings of perpetual light. And the light in me recognizes and honors the same light that is within you is the standard greeting for yoga practice. The first book of the Bible 8th century BC includes the famous and God said let there be light and there was light. Genesis one and three. According the Gospel of John, Jesus claimed to be the light of the world. John 95. The reverse aspect is of course darkness. In Milton's Paradise Lost, for example, Satan Reigns in hell seed of desolation, void of light. In a more philosophical vein, it is clear that here too, light has been a powerful metaphor, and more. The sublime, for instance, became a key philosophical and aesthetic focus in the 18th century, with its link to the idea of light. That light was the essence of the sublime was a commonplace, which later George Batai resented the Platonic son of cool Reason and celebrated instead the burning sun, which to him stood for the thwarting of icarus's yearning for transcendence. Heidegger's lumen naturale. Is an intuitive. Faculty of meaning within us. While darkness appears in the writings of Sartre as nauseannihilation, that which is closed off. Maurice Merleau Ponty said of Primorial ontology of vision prior to the split between subject and object. Lived perception was the key to his phenomenological search. And light was never far from this active perceiving the world. For feminist. Philosopher Luce irigaray. Merleau ponty Lulu pontaise stress Correcting something here on the tangible wasn't tangible, intimate enough quote I see only through the touching of the light, she declared. In his vision of nature, Michael Tobias observed that despite the hundreds of Western art history books with light in their titles. There are quote. Surprisingly, they are surprisingly silent on the topic of life. Perhaps lacking in the literature, Paul Hills is none the less correct, however. In noting quote, the preoccupation with representing light that is a characteristic of the Western tradition. From the Renaissance to the Impressionists. In the early 15th century, the van Eck brothers brought an extraordinary clarity of light to their paintings. And in the following century toward the end of the Renaissance, masaccio's light was a preeminent feature of his work. Representational purpose becomes somehow lost when light becomes a prime subject in a satisfying move away from what representation is always trying to achieve. Centuries later, Renoir and Manet triggered an entire movement in the 1870s as Robert De la May summed up with some exaggeration. It is the birth of light in painting. From the sun drenched pre impressionist canvases and JMW Turner to the even more focused intent of Manet. Light is the principal person in the picture. In America, the Hudson River school. Had a closely related emphasis slightly earlier, albeit in a quite different style. As in France, artists were drawn to the light as industrialization threatened it decisively. Pierre Bonnard Captured the radiant light, the sunlight streaming through a window as a secular grace in the early 20th century. Later in the century, Mark Rothko brings us back to the sublime. The depth of his rectangular forms, pulsing with light. Light is a presence that evades representation. It knows so many tricks by which it prevails. The image, by contrast, is but the ashes of what was active. Man's Man raised 1934 essay the Age of Light makes this point. Light is light and dark and dark dark is dark and if. As the twilight, they appear to blend. They do so without either of them relinquishing anything of itself to the other. According to philosopher John Sallis. In the June 13th, 1851 Journal entry, Thoreau seems to approach it in a similar vein. Then is night when the daylight yields to the night light an interval a distance not recognized in history. There is so much to think about and discover. In this silent all-encompassing realm. Luminous Knight touch with the Quickening whose denseness never appears in the light, is a meditative insight from Irigaray. The intangible radiance of deep space in the night sky is inescapable to anyone somehow able to avoid the always growing light pollution. Our moon blind Queen bright ghost of the Sun holds us in its steady light, which seems hollow and yet not. Moon that makes the seas tilt pulls the seas after it. We are moon blanched by its silver gleams, made restless. When it is full. The moon hangs like a hook, Lee Hochu wrote. And the sun puts Daybreak noon away moon away. A Dawn moon hard to hold its light. In Meng Chao's 8th century words. In the silky sea of night, there is a surf of stars. Civilization has steadily obscured them, but the luxury of fire spilling stars remains its fantastic sifting. Seamus Heaney's oysters gives us some sensuous lines. My tongue was a filling estuary. My palate hung with Starlight as I tasted the salty plates, Arion dipped his foot into the water. Mary Oliver more simply. I look up into the folk faces of the stars into their deep silence. As Milton put it, it is the morning star that guides the starry flock and announces the impending dawn. Black Elk, referring to a crucial turning point in his maturity. From that time on, I always got up very early to see the rising of the Daybreak Star. For many, this has been a time of deep significance. Native author Paula Gunn Allen. Referring to important awareness and memory found that you can hold it if you hold it lightly, like sunrise. I have watched the morning break in many quarters of the world. It has been certainly one of the chief joys of my existence. Mused Robert Louis Stevenson. Don is a private showing and it is also what lasts, which is the meaning of the title of N. Scott Momaday's novel House made of dawn. A new day dawning is of course, another sense of the word. One we may yet experience, provided the number of cynics and nihilists doesn't grow too great. Nature gives an array of kinds of light here in the Pacific Northwest, there is generally a liquid light, a soft marine light. Sometimes noticeable in European art is the difference between the wetter north. With a slight shimmer or Sheen in the air and the drier dustier S the difference of the. And one of the variations of shooting stars of Aurora, Borealis rainbows and other such spectacular lights. Artificial light seems best suited for conveying the alienation that it embodies. One things, for instance, of Edward Hopper's famous Nighthawks, his 1942 depiction of lonely figures in a late night diner illuminated by harsh lighting. A more abstract starkness is brought out by Richard Ross's 1998 photograph, restrooms Shoreline Park, Santa Barbara, CA. As the sun sets over the Pacific, artificial light floods out of the foregrounded public restrooms in a striking contrast, as if the forms of light are pitted against each other. Like technology light is non neutral, its modern history, the acceleration of non natural lighting sources can be a reminder of lost meanings and values. The emergence of gas lighting around 1800 and electric lighting several decades later parallel the development of the rest of the technological juggernaut. At base, the development of artificial light was called forth by the factory system, the Industrial Revolution. Bloom and Lippincott noted in the second-half of the 19th century light seemed to be everywhere and in immeasurable quantities, just as industrialism was everywhere. It was precisely this onslaught that the inspiration is the excuse me, the Impressionist painters reacted against. For the factory owners and all their ideological defenders on the left, as well as the right. It hasn't been acceptable for more than two centuries to awaken with the sun and sleep when it has set. Now light overcomes the sun. On the global treadmill, melatonin is suppressed by electric light and Williams, Wilhelm Rick's dead light of fluorescent fluorescence, rains and office buildings. Women living near bright streetlights are far more likely to develop breast cancer than those lit by the moon and. Stars, computer screens, ebooks and the like are just the latest rest robbing sources of light. Colex of Italy, and this just in the past week, by the way, has developed a new form of artificial light that is able to dupe humans, cameras and computers alike losing using a thin it's encoding of nanoparticles. Supposedly replicating sunlight itself. Who needs the natural world at all? Click strands bring on the dark regrets that night, which once held back unrelenting and exhausting enterprise. Has been made to submit. The lights are always on. Light is a form of electromagnetic energy. It is both particle and wave. It is what makes photosynthesis happen among other well known features. Recent science has shown that the speed of light can be exceeded. And researchers have managed to slow down the speed of light. Wordsworth wrote of Sirius and the Seven Stars of quote Orion, with his belt, and those fair 7 acquaintances of every little child. How many children now have that connection? All things that love the sun are out of doors was another more enduring statement of his. To live in the old ways to live with the sky as Elizabeth Marshall Thomas beautifully. Referred to the traditional Jew Wassi hunter gatherer wisdom. We are always drawn to the light, sometimes rapturously Pacific Northwest painter George Innis collapsed and died after raising his hands to his sunset and declaring my God. Oh how beautiful. Turner's last words where the sun is God. Meng Chao wrote a similar, if less, dramatic in a similar, less dramatic vein. Looking up. I am moved by the light of newly cleared skies that shines down on me, making me doubt my sorrows. Thoreau puts us in sharper focus. Only that day dawns, to which we are awake. There is more day to dawn. In this sense, the light depends on us. Or, as Lawrence Durrell, put it right out at midnight, you will meet your son. So how to proceed with great passion but lightly? All right well? That took a while. I'm gonna use up most of the show. Oh, OK. Now the phone will be ringing like crazy. Or they'll wait till the. Last five minutes as usual.

Speaker 2: It could be.

Speaker 1: Well, let's see. Some sad news, . Just lately. Especially since what few days ago the another Putin rival was gunned down. So Russia is a mafia state. I guess Mexico is a mafia state. I'm not sure, but. With the latest pig killings happen every day here, what do we call this society with this culture? New details revealed in shooting by police. This was,. More than a couple of weeks ago, Mr Zambrano Montes up in Pasco, WA. He was allegedly throwing rocks at cars in an intersection. Video captured by a bystander showed that Mr Zambrano Montes ran from three officers who chased him, shooting him from a distance. As he turned to them and raised his arms sound familiar. And this fellow in. Los Angeles on Skid Row. As a yesterday I think it was. Yeah, unarmed black guy Skid Row electric pigs roll up. Hassle him anyway. The story was so then he shot to death as if I had to tell you. This guy was on his back on the sidewalk. First they said he grabbed a cop's gun and then they changed it to. He tried to grab a cop's gun. There were three pigs standing over him with their guns drawn the 4th. And there were a couple of others nearby. So yeah, they just. They just had to murder him. And they'll make up the story and stick by it. But there apparently there was some video on that one too. Well, the other shooting that's. A great deal. That's a great deal difference. Different in one way, but perhaps not so different. Well, here's a connection. A retired police officer apparently shot his two teenage daughters to death and then killed himself in suburban New York. This was February 21st. And on the 22nd. Four people were killed, including. The suspected gunman in the shooting spree. Near Fort Hood. U.S. military post. This was Saturday night, the 22nd. And let's see out. This was just. Well, this was the same time I don't know for sure if it's the same day, but police in Texas searching for a gunman believed to randomly attack five people, including one who later died in Houston and a nearby suburb. And in the Czech Republic, this of course is spreading. This was,. It was no. It was Tuesday the 24th. Shooter kills 8 then himself at a restaurant in central Czech Republic. Shootings are rare in the Czech Republic, but they won't be that rare much longer I do predict. On Thursday, the 26th last Thursday, gunmen killed 7 commit suicide and house to house rampage. In rural Missouri, southern Missouri. Swath of murder. In a tiny town in the Missouri Ozarks. Yep Yep. Yep, all right. Who enough of that? Well, I think we'll maybe we should take a little music break and get some funny anarchist stuff. Maybe lighten the mood a little and some Action News and other stuff as usual.

UNKNOWN: I will be king.

Speaker 3: And you.

UNKNOWN: You'll be crying.

Speaker 3: We'll drive them away.

UNKNOWN: We can be hero.

Speaker 4: All the time.

Speaker 3: Caldwell lost.

Speaker 4: I haven't said that.

Speaker 3: Yes well lover.

Speaker 4: Give us together.

UNKNOWN: We can be heroes.

Speaker 3: Like dolphins and swim.

Speaker 4: No nothing. We can lead them now ever and never.

UNKNOWN: Theroes.

Speaker 3: Just for one day. The queen.

UNKNOWN: One day OK.

Speaker 1: A little glass and Bowie there. Well selection is, but first I find this funny crazy. And they've been getting some attention. I don't know how much attention they deserve. But the Freedom Club people at the University of North Carolina, I think it was two weeks ago or so. They there was a story at Anarchist News primitivism without the anarcho Which revved up a fair amount of discussion. And they promised they'd have a. This would be a three-part thing, a big exploration and. Bringing in the whole thing of. The anti authoritarian nature. Of being anti civilization? I mean I, I thought they didn't come up with very good reasons to. To kick down the. And arco prefix. Anyway, a friend of mine submitted an article they have a. They have a very short journal. A brief thing called the FC Journal Freedom Club Journal. And it was rejected because they mentioned my name and it was just in passing. It really didn't have much to do with the thrust of the piece. And I told I told him, hey, take it out. I mean I don't care, but he was peeved that they would. That they'd be so weird about it that they mention. I mean I have people who love me and people that hate me, and that's fine, but it just seemed weird. What what has that got to do with anything? Anyway, so. I don't know and things got stranger from from there on I. I believe if you stay tuned it'll get more odd. I'm predicting the FCC journal, by the way, has now been renamed the WILDERNEST. like wilderness. Wilderness exist, but it's wilderness. And they're no longer primitivists at all after. After all, they are fluffle about whether we're the end aren't and arco primitives, no, we're just capital P primitives or some. Basically silly stuff, no, no other conservationists. And I'm just thinking. Or is this just pure opportunism? You're just swinging this way and that way. Do you imagine that conservationists as a group or? Are likely radical allies or something? I'm afraid they're not. I don't know, maybe even more to the point, and maybe we wait a few minutes. They'll rename their publication and their. In their handle as well, they’re going to be royalists or something. It's too bizarre. I guess it's slow these days that this would even be noticed. And why am I noticing it? Anyway, another thing that just in the past week is a one hour free radical radio interview with Jason Mcquinn. Which was conducted by Bellamy. And in a way I have just some quibbles, along the lines of. My feeling about the interview they did recently with Lawrence Dirac. It's the reverse of the way. Eric Gordon would do it. I mean where where the interviewer does most of the talking. Well, Bellamy hardly said anything and that can be good. I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, but there's no it. Cuts down on the follow up questions that the probing thing that sometimes you want in an interview. Not to be combative, but just to clarify things and, get a little deeper maybe. But I think it was a good session overall and I do want to say that. I've known Jason since the late 70s. And he was editor and publisher of Anarchy magazine for 25 years. He was just starting that project when I met him in San Francisco. And he's in the Bay Area now. But over the years he mainly did not live. Out West he lived in. Missouri and he's one of the most modest, honest people I've ever met. A real fine person. I remember that in gatherings sometimes I would notice that lots of people talking, and there he was doing. You know pretty central stuff pretty. Pretty key stuff in my opinion. I think that Anarchy magazine was even more important than that. It is now. But you would never know that he was the person who did. That was the the guiding energy behind that for you. There is. You know he wouldn't make it clear that, oh, by the way I’m Mr Anarchy. Magazine you no no, you'd never know that. Well, so the interview. He's talking about the key thing. For Jason these days is critical self theory. He's trying to develop that all the more he talks about that a lot, taking control of 1's life. It's anti submission. Except what I what I found in. This nicely extended conversation. It was that it was conducted in a pretty abstract plane, I thought, and he didn't mention, for example, any social institutions. Which I found. A little off putting in fact, it even reminded me of deep ecology people. They put out what you might call precepts. But they don't have any interest in the history of society or any institutions. They never mention any they. Just they just say these are the key. Whatever it is, 6 or 8 things. We should conform to them, and that's just an abstract moral statement of sorts. And I'm not saying, by the way, that Jason is dogmatic. He's certainly not. He's not laying down the law. But it's a it's a matter of. Egoism and he says he doesn't use the term much, and that's fine, but It’s a classic egoism. If I can call it that. And I think there was some good feedback at Inachus News, and it's almost,. Quite unusual to say that to observe that. But anyway, if your ego is a means, really that any experience is really a projection or a construct of the self. You get to the conclusion that there's in fact nothing. Of substance outside one's own self or life. And that's the. In a way, the dead end of Negroids M you could say you could put it. That way. And the other side of that or another question, is the one about. Yeah, so given that view isn't that solipsistic, if not narcissistic. And Jason's response was well. It's not consciously self critical. That's that's the key part. It’s self oriented, but it isn't critical. And it's he refers to that as a function of a tiny self, whereas he wants to expand the demands of the self. Outward so that the. Constraints of modern slavery. It's the name of his magazine, by the way, which is a book that comes out every couple of years or so. Then fall away under the pressure of this unrelenting egoism. But,. Yeah, it's it just seems sort of remote and somewhat self enclosed. But,, I do look forward to. What he's going to do with this and. And he he was pretty articulate. I think he just avoided a few things. To my taste anyway. If there's no one who heard that and would like to come on in. Maybe your egoist, who wants to defend the colors? Be welcome. Some Action News and of course this always just a sampling. Very early, and I'm not going to go. Sometimes things come to light, but they end up being in the almost distant past and I don't. I don't usually bother with them if it's too distant. Very early Monday morning, February 23rd, 2 ROTC vans were found on fire at Kent State University in Ohio. 15 passenger vans. And the military folks there,, told the cadets, the ROTC students not to be in uniform on campus until further notice. So that's sent to. Message I guess. And let's say February 25th, that would have been last. Wednesday's truckers in Brazil set up 99 blockades in 10 states. 10 states of. Brazil the. Truckers are on strike across Brazil. We'll see where that goes Wednesday the 25th, also Wednesday. A fiber optic cable was cut. Cut through, . In the case of they concluded zombies vandalism north of Phoenix. Ending all Internet service throughout a large part of Arizona for several hours. And let's say Thursday the 26th of riots erupted following anarchist anti state pro protest in the Exarchia. This kind. Read out of the good old Exarchia neighborhood. Near the university. And this the reaction that I think people are waiting. This new leftist government Syriza supposedly against the austerity measures that have been hounding. The regular people of Greece for quite a while, they pretty much have all ratio, and they're not going to do anything. And hence the riot if you needed that excuse. Also on Thursday, the 26th Indigenous people in Coke, Colombiare defending or we're defending their occupation of farmland. Three cops injured. Also, last week students strike in Spain demonstrations in 40 cities. This has not been much in the news, if at all. Some clashes with cops. Mostly these were not militant, very militant ones, but some definitely were. In a very interesting development in Algeria, oh, I think we do have a. A great deal of anti fracking. Militancy against the anti fracking pilot project going strong. This somewhat in the South, not on the Mediterranean, where in the South they're not known for. For coming out strong, they're there. There's the cliche as there's sort of quiet and submissive, but this really something and this directly about the environment. By the way, obviously all right we have somebody on the line.

Speaker 2: Miss wombat?

Speaker 5: Hello oh hi there John. I was just calling up earlier. I had called. I don't know several episodes ago about the seaweed book Land freedom. I was trying to send it to you. I was going to do that exchange information about that later, but I wanted to go ahead and plug Kevin Tucker's new forum Black and green forums like there's a lot of new discussion that's going on trying to handle.

Speaker 1: Oh, I have. I have got a copy. Black and. Green review

Speaker 5: Like different, things about rewilding. Obviously his new book coming out Black and Green Review and stuff like that. And trying to handle topics that are similar until that gets out there and everybody starts reading it and such. Figured I'd plug that real.

Speaker 1: Good idea, I heard just this evening that it's done at the printer so they're going to get their hands on it soon and start shipping it out.

Speaker 5: I'm excited, I'm gonna see if I can get myself an order here, pretty myself.

Speaker 1: Oh cool, how are things in the Midwest?

Speaker 5: They're they're all right. Trying to figure out how to get some sort of thing going like I've been trying to run around and get a small group of my friends to go up to local parks and practice some printed skills and such like that, like mainly with bow drills and stuff like that. Nothing too big, but . Just doing little things.

Speaker 1: Good stuff, good stuff. Yeah, I know you've been. Real involved for a long time man.

Speaker 5: You know, bring a make things go.

Speaker 1: Are you doing radio? Sure, are you doing radio now?

Speaker 5: Right now, no. Like I've been thinking about it, but with all the all the radio shows, there, there's a few of them that had to overlap on how I formatted my previous show. And so I just figured I'm not going to worry about it right now and all that. And, just don't have a partner really to team up with. And it's more fun with a. Partner, for me at least.

Speaker 1: Ohh I know yeah true.

Speaker 5: But,, yeah, like we've been just kicking it out here. I've been actually trying to come up with some good ideas to do some sort of more like Northern Appalachia, gathering and talks about it. Obviously it's just still in the works I'm talking. I'm not an organizer or anything, but hoping to drop some. Enthusiasm on the idea because I'd love to connect with other people in my areand such like that.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hear that gatherings are always real upper I think.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Oh yeah, and they got one that's happening not too long ago North Carolina. It's a little out of the way. But Southern Appalachian Northern Appalachia is similar environment, so it would be good crossover for learning the wilderness down. There would probably apply pretty close to up here.

Speaker 1: I see. Well, I'd really like to hear more about that if you can. If you think of it, share the news.

Speaker 5: OK, no problem. Yeah, the Kevin Tucker's forum. You can find that blackandgreen.freeforums.net.

Speaker 1: OK, could you repeat that once more?

Speaker 5: It's blackandgreen.freeforums.net.

Speaker 1: Thanks warmbad.

Speaker 5: Alright, have a.

Speaker 1: Good one, you too take care you too. Yeah wombat OK. Whoa, another call. Hunger strike in Greek prisons announced today, including Domokos Prison that High Security Place whose warden was shot to death as reported last week. Oh, there's somebody else, all righty hello there.

Speaker 6: Hello John, can you?

Speaker 1: Hey yeah.

Speaker 5: Hear me.

Speaker 6: Hey, it's Bellamy ears were burning.

Speaker 1: Oh all right OK. To the four. Good to hear from you man.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really hard to. Hear you for some reason you're really.

Speaker 1: Quiet, is that right? I think.

Speaker 6: Oh, that's a little better now. But yeah, I wanted to. Touch on the interview on some of the comments. That you're making.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 6: Yeah, and I've found it very useful recently and what I've been trying to talk about on the show is draw a really clear line between narcissism on the one hand egoism on the other. Because I take narcissism, what the ethos of the culture of the bourgeois narcissism. Is a reification of the self. The self becomes a fixed idea that we then aspire to whether it's through socioeconomic achievements or the self as this sort of independent completely. Free willed agent that therefore deserves the property that it acquires, like the myth of capitalistic so that all is based on a really fixed idea of the self. Whereas egoism, I think I don't want to speak for Jason, but what I was getting from what he was saying and what I find more interesting is egoism. As a way to be against all reification, which includes the reified self. And so it can act as a corrosiveness to break down the subject object dichotomy or the self other dichotomy which then. Leads us to see. Ourselves as inseparable from the biosphere. We are the biosphere, and the biosphere subsumes. Us and that's why I think. It rather than suggesting a solipsism that's apathetic toward what's going on. To the to the. Ecosystems around us. The people around. Us, it might take the view of saying actually these are a part of me as I'm a part of them and therefore my interest lies with thealth of the biosphere and with thealth of the people around me.

Speaker 1: Well, I like that sounds really healthy. I didn't hear Jason put it like that. My question is more about the solipsism than narcissism and. You know it doesn't. Doesn't border on philosophical solipsism where you're. There is a self enclosed. Aspect which is pretty strong when you say I mean you're on the verge of saying that's. It's just itself and that's it. I mean it. There's he didn't even mention anything else. I mean it. Maybe it's just a connotation that I was getting because I do like the way you put it. I think that's much more that gets out of that box.

Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I. Mean if you go back to excuse me if you go. Back to Stirner I. Mean he even rejected the carts. Coach Ato right he. He said I'm creature and creator and I don't presuppose myself. I might posit myself in each moment when it's useful to me, or one might. I might posit my the self as just body, or I might posit the self as biosphere. Or I might posit the self as part of a social group of friends and there's no. I don't see a necessarily fixed self that collapses into solipsism. I think. That how unfortunately it gets twisted and I, I think a lot of that has to do with the name as Jason was getting at and maybe the name is something that should be dropped because of the strong connotations of ego in English.

Speaker 4: So I don't take it that way.

Speaker 1: And maybe he will. Yeah, that’s useful to think about it that way. I think very much so. And maybe this,, long term essay or even more. Lengthy than that he's working on will bring out will bring this out and make those.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I was curious. About that we didn't so much. Get into that, but yeah. Anyway, thanks for doing the show. As always John, and I'm going to keep making dinner and listen. Yeah thanks, thanks David.

Speaker 1: Be well. Oh, part of the fantastic Free Radical Radio. Group that is. That's an awesome broadcast. You get a lot out of that just. Just create energy for one thing and humor and the and the whole thing. I mean they just, they just really roll with it. Well, let's I'll just try to finish off. I can finish off the Action News here. Yeah, the 10s of thousands in Algeria. There's a. It's a mass movement with a lot of teeth. This anti fracking thing. Riots on Sunday in the district of Bensalah. In which 40 officers were injured and the police headquarters, the Chiefs House, some police barracks and a police truck were all set ablaze. I'm reading. Reading that out from. One of the releases. Students at the University of Amsterdam. This, yeah, lots of stuff in the middle of the week too. As I've already mentioned, launched a protest against,, a new authoritarianism or privatization is probably in there too, and it's has to do with forced testing imposed from the outside. This even worse than the university doing that I guess. So there been some occupations. And I think that's ongoing. And let me just say I did say this last week, but in terms of announcements on Thursday the 5th here on campus at the University of Oregon at 8:30. Willamette Hall Room 100 wrenched. Referring to monkey wrenching., that's 3830. On campus since Saturday, this has been moved. This rebel revelry and annual. Benefit type thing., it's going to be at the REACH Center 2520 Harris that's in South Eugene. Not at the boreal, which is not in South Eugene. This just local news. Civil Liberties Defense Center Eric McDavid will be on hand, and the Wagner County All-Stars. I found out there is. No Wagner county. I was a little bit. Where is Wagner County anyway? fun. Oh boy man. The severe news that’s one of the standout things I was talking about health things. Global health or the lack of it last week, and it gosh. Oh, I don't know. But the severe I'm not even going to go into this much. But the there was a photo. Last on the weekend on Nantucket, surfs up if you're part Penguin and it's actually frozen, It’s slush. It's this big wave. I've never seen anything like that, and I didn't know that there was any ocean. Look at that and 2nd.

Speaker 2: I saw that yes.

Speaker 1: Is that amazing.

Speaker 2: It's pretty like. God, it's like a slushy.

Speaker 1: A slushy right don't surf in that probably just gets swallowed up in a heartbeat, and It’s obviously well below freezing and salt water freezes something like 4 degrees below 32 Fahrenheit, so. Yeah, the Northeast in general record lows just even the South. Now this just going on. Past your usual late winter stuff obviously, and OK. Couple of more words on thealth thing. Been hearing about the opioids, Oxycontin and all that supposedly leveling out. It's just been booming. Way up in very recent years. Wall Street or excuse me. New York Times editorial brought out some of this yesterday. Including this, people are not just using more opioids, they're using stronger ones. And they've also brought out the opioids. There's no evidence that they're effective in relieving long term chronic pain, so it makes the thing even worse and people get hooked. Whether it works or not for that matter, but it doesn't even work. And more on the fact that antibiotics weaken people more super bug deaths. Almost a half a million infections a year and nearly 15,000 deaths in the US. That's going up according to the Centers for Disease Control. Yeah mand I wish we had time to go more into some of the. Some of the specific things in terms of emotional. Disabilities and debilitating thing. More a little bit more Washington Post story today by Brady Dennis Wided. Over 100 kids that caught enterovirus last year, late last year become paralyzed, none of whom have recovered totally. Right? Mystery paralysis. They keep talking about it that way. It just it just seems like there's. More and more. You know the mad cow thing I mentioned last week and West Indian cities banned most public gatherings in an attempt to halt the spread of swine flu. Which has claimed almost 1000 lives nationwide. In the past couple of months, India. And a psychiatrist in New York. This an article called Medicating Women's Feelings in The Sunday Times. Julie Holland One in four women in America now takes a psychiatric medication. There's one in seven men, which is a lot, but. Women are nearly twice as likely to receive a diagnosis of depression or anxiety disorder than men. Abilify that is the number one seller among all drugs in the US, not just machiato trip ones. And she says, as a psychiatrist, practicing practicing for 20 years, I must tell you this insane. I mean, it's some of this hard to sort out. I mean, it's one thing to say. Emotion isn't a disease, it's a sign of health. But when people are messed up so much by what interferes with, we might what we might want to. Natural, emotional, affective life. Then people you don't want to get some help? I mean it's you can't just say have too many drugs. Well, what are you going to do? What are you going to do for people? It's I, of course I would say it's a much deeper condition. Then over medicating people, I mean it's . Again, you're left with the with the problem. Well, I guess we've run out of. Time here more. I guess it was just going to be more. Bummer news anyway. Some more interesting than others, but just bringing out some of these things. Yeah, we'll have Dan Todd by phone. We'll we'll do that next week and then in two weeks, Catherine. Good to have calls tonight. We'll find calls, have a good rest of the week.

02-24-2015

[audio]

Nihilist Arby's is the best. Homi Bhahba, postmodern zero, FC interviews IRL, anti-tech graffitist. Avalanche of health threats, "The Global Flight from the Family." Robotics, e-book failures, tech classrooms. Action news.

02-17-2015

[audio]

Who is postmodern? Adbusters=incoherence+worship of technology. Severe weather, New Delhi choking, Sao Paolo thirsty. Madness of biofuels, geo-engineering. "Escaping the Void" by Steve Kirk. Terrorism spreads, modernity and democracy wanting. One call.

02-09-2015

[audio]

Black and Green Review is at printer; excerpt from Kevin Tucker's "The Suffocating Void." Robotic news, urban crises. Govt. looking into geo-engineering! New anarchy media offerings, post-left is a dodge. Google Glass is an Edsel. Harari's Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. Actions news.

02-02-2015

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. "Primitivism without the Anarcho-?" Black Mirror, sign of the times. Troubled sleep in the techno-scape. What is thinking, consciousness? Crazy health claims. Action briefs, two calls.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. We played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: They suck. AW, BH-88 Point Point point point point point.

Speaker 3: KWDAU

UNKNOWN: Gu

Speaker 4: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of kW via radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of Johnson and the community at large.

Speaker 5: Right, you're listening to anarchy Radio right here on KWVAUG. We're here in the studio today with Cliff we're going to get started in just a couple of minutes. We have some introductory tunes that I have yet to plug in, and we're going to do that first, and we'll be back after this little musical interlude from Anna Tijou. This, I remember this, this. Really good stuff.

UNKNOWN: Turn off this. Olivia Susan brother poker.

Speaker 2: And I'm not. And a man.

Speaker 7: What was anatis you so much Sir, which I believe translate to we are the South. That's about resistance to globalization. We'll say the West.

Speaker 6: It was all right. Happy you're here. Cliff, thank you for coming down.

Speaker 7: I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 6: On February 3rd, Anarchy Radio. Boy, there's a lot of let me just hit you with something we talked about. Anything we've avoided any rehearsal or anything? How about? Black Mirror, have you got any of that?

Speaker 7: I I watched the first one. I haven't watched any of the others, but yeah, I know you and Carl talked about it a few shows ago and I think there's seven episodes total. I'll check some more out, but have you have? You seen any of them, yeah?

Speaker 6: One or two I thought they were really well done. I mean just yeah, I can see why. I've heard people just rave about it and including Carl. There was a piece in the New York Times Magazine and it's really catching on and It’s coming from the UK. It's a British TV show if we didn't happen to know that out there, and I thought it was an interesting piece.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: And if we this something we could get a call on, conceivably 5413460645. This was February 1, the weekend's York Times magazine. This stranger in the mirror brilliant British TV show reflects a high tech dystopia made in America. And the main it's it seems somewhat of a weak article. But I don't know I'm not so versed in the show, but it's the writer here. Jenna Wortham makes the point more than once that it's about a future gone technically, technologically awry. The technology goes horribly off course. That kind. And I was thinking, well, isn't it more that this the nature of the technology? This exactly where it's going. It's not going off the tracks, this it, it's.

Speaker 7: Well, even the first episode I saw, I think it had a lot to do with like being transfixed to the media, right? And so they had released the this captive or whatever, and she was free. But everyone was so transfixed on this act that was going to take place on national TV that no one even saw that the. Was some political figures daughter or something was released and in no harm and ? So everyone's just so transfixed to the screen they don't even pay attention to. What's going on around them?

Speaker 6: Yeah, right, right? Exactly like.

Speaker 7: There was a video I saw a couple of weeks ago about a bear being loose and. Los Angeles somewhere, and they had like a video of the bear coming down the street and there's a guy coming down the alley right at it on his phone paying attention. And then he looks up and the bear. It's there's a bear and he takes off running the other way, but yeah. I mean, that’s the nature of the beast, so to so to say.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it seems so. And if anybody has caught the show and has thought to share.

UNKNOWN: Did you did?

Speaker 5: You hear the news I, I just heard it today. It was about the plane crash in Colorado a while ago and they determined that it was caused because he took a selfie at night in the cockpit. So it's a picture of himself and it flashed and it disoriented him and he lost the perception of yourself in space and the thing went to a.

Speaker 7: Tailspin and crash. My goodness. I didn't know about that. I hadn't heard about that.

Speaker 5: I just saw the news today. It's right there.

Speaker 6: I don't know, maybe it's a different one, or maybe it's the same one, but I thought I saw a story about taking a selfie. There were only two people on the planet, Small planet course and they're doing a selfie in the controls. Get away. Maybe it's the same story.

Speaker 5: It may be, yeah.

Speaker 6: I can't remember where it was. Well, OK. Let's see, oh, I wonder if you've got any of this stuff and it became somewhat interesting. Discussion at Anarchist news. Just in the past few days, the primitivism without the anarco effects.

Speaker 7: And I I think I took. A look at that. Today, but I didn't read the whole article. I'm familiar with the writer, I think that's from North Carolina that FC club or something like that, and I’ve read some of his. I think it's John. Jacoby is the writer's name and. I can relate to it and I think like I said, I didn't read the whole article, but to be honest, I think that's maybe. Is something that I struggle with a little bit too because there is the whole like red anarchy versus green anarchy thing and you I don't know almost want to. Like Primitivism is implied anarchy anarchical set up. I guess you want to say. But the but the other stuff like red anarchy. To me it seems almost. I don't know how to describe it, maybe some like systematically enforced or something like that approach to anarchy, whereas with primitivism it's it, it's. It goes together more naturally. That's not it. It's not being forced or systematized. I don't know those are my initial thoughts on it.

Speaker 6: Well, I thought he. I thought he raised some fair points as well, but then. And I didn't read all of it either. It got a little tedious. When people would say well, don't you subscribe to this anarchist thing or this what the Anarcho deal brings into the picture and that's why it's anarcho primitivism, not just primitive.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: It seemed like every time he would. Agree, I was getting that hit that well then why are you insisting on taking it away? I mean, right? He didn't have much. To back that up, he said he didn't like or they didn't like some of the anarchists in North Carolina. But what has that got to do? With anything that's.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't if it gets.

Speaker 6: Seems bad.

Speaker 7: And then to be some sort of semantic thing where you can't use specific words to? I don't, I don't know, it's. Like I said, sometimes it's uncomfortable because a lot of people will. Lump their own assumptions in about what anarchy is, or anarcho means, and you end up fighting that stuff more than than talking about what I would say is the positive side of primitivism or what this has to bring to the. Table, so it's almost like a distraction. Times, but you can't ignore it because it is definitely a. Part of it so.

Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think he let off with that. That's there's a lot of baggage. With the anarchist thing, and as if there isn't in terms of dismantling all of technology and civilization which seems to be where he's at. And I could be wrong here, but I also got the fit the hit that he's trying to set up his own stand, ? Mark it out with a capital P.

UNKNOWN: Oh yeah.

Speaker 6: So now I've got my little accent or something.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I definitely I've even. The other stuff that I’ve read from. That group or from I don't know if there's more than just one person, but. There's some good stuff in it, but I feel like there's someone there trying to work out their own ideas and that's fine, but it'll, it'll just take a while of hashing that stuff out until you come to whatever sort of realization it doesn't. It doesn't have to be any rigid. Ideologically defined movement or thing like that right off the bat. So it's good to good to question all that stuff I think.

Speaker 6: I think so, and it seemed like he was open to that he. Was glad that people. You know I saw one thing just before the show, possibly as of now, and he had the Last Post on this topic. Signed by someone named Sue Doe and she. Presumably she said if you don't. If you don't want to have the association with the anarchists who do you suppose? I'm paraphrasing, of course. Who do you suppose is going to carry the load? I mean, who is it that's out in the streets? Who where does the resistance come from? Because the this John. Fellows seem to say at one point I'm more comfortable with the conservationists and the lists a few people, but they're not going to fight assistant.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, right right.

Speaker 6: They none of them are well known. So we say for resisting. So she raised the question though who's going to do it? You know, the question agency.

Speaker 7: Well, that's and that's exactly what he needs to hear you need. I mean, that's part of it. You put something out there and you’re obviously going to get different interpretations and people are going to disagree with you and it's. It's up to you to. You know, react to those. Those interpretations of what you put out there, either you, it makes your position stronger or it makes you reevaluate your position and you change the direction and so that's.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: I mean, that’s the good side of it. The other thing is with anarchist news. There's a ton of trolling up there which doesn't doesn't add much to the conversation but.

Speaker 6: No it doesn't.

Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean if you filtered through some of the stuff and actually some.

Speaker 6: This did bring out a little better level unusual I thought, yeah so.

Speaker 7: Responses yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6: It's yeah, as you say, it's not closed.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: Yeah, more on that. I must confess that my first reaction. Even starting with the FCC deal, I was thinking to myself, I hope he's he's not going to be another Ted clone another slavishly, bomber. A person, and but I don't think he is. I don't, really.

Speaker 7: That's not what I mean. It's he's probably influenced by those ideas, and I think he's admitted that. But yeah, I think he's going to. There's still hope for him. We can use that word even.

Speaker 6: Really hope indeed.

Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: We will see.

Speaker 6: You know what one thing in the mass media today? Big time? Maybe you won't last very. Very long, but this the thing about measles, the vaccination and the different politicians. A lot of it was just centered around that. Taking the stand that. You know? No one should be forced to be to have the vaccine for measles, but yet measles. Is back and so forth. I mean to me it brought up the question. Just to How little people trust experts at a time when we're just so dependent on experts for everything that’s the nature of complexity. That's that's the sad one of the sad parts of civilization. But when you think of it. And of course, one could say you don't trust anything. You don't believe that there's global warming. You don't. Maybe you don't even think the Earth is round or whatever. I mean, could go to obvious absurd lengths, but it has to do with the fact that people I think people used to trust doctors. And they don't anymore. It's not just drug companies they don't trust, but. You know, you wonder people don't have any trust or faith in anything, I mean, and this this maybe an odd example of that to bring up because it's like there's not much basis that evidently for. Being afraid of measles vaccine, right? Anyway, what going too long on this? What were you thinking about that?

Speaker 7: I don't know if I was really. Trying to formulate formulate a response now. But so the question you're. Raising is that people have lost. Faith, or if you want to use the word for trust doctors or yeah, right.

Speaker 6: Yeah, they don't taking a.

Speaker 2: Vaccine for me anymore?

Speaker 6: And it I think it is related to the deeper stuff. You know that. It's just erode it away. Trust in any institution or sector that's supposed to be good for you.

Speaker 7: Sure I well, I know there’s been. Stuff in the news. Over the past few years. Wasn't there something in South America? Maybe it was Chile where they the Americans confess to? Going down there with some, they said it was a vaccine or a treatment or something like that, but they were actually introducing a they were introducing. Some virus or something in order to treat it with something that they had lined up. I can't remember though the whole story, but there's been some. Stories that have come out like that from the 50s or 60s or 40s or whatever about these large scale. Basically, experiments with scientific experiments that medical American, Western medical companies and organization organizations were doing. In these, we'll call them third World countries. For lack of a better term, but that they could go in there and like have experiment on a large. Population base right under the pretense is like, oh, we're going to come in and vaccinate your kids for this stuff or whatever, but they would introduce a virus or issue into the population and then they'd have a treatment for it, right? And that's how they would keep track of it. And there's I. I believe there's been. Quite a few of those things have happened and people have come forward to say, yeah, that's what it has happened in the past, and so that definitely is going to undercut some trust you have in the scientific community or medical community. So I mean, I don't know if that's part of the backlash, but I could. I could understand it from that perspective.

Speaker 6: Sure, sure, especially subject people of people of color have been experimented on.

Speaker 7: Yeah, right sure.

Speaker 6: These horrors have come out to.

Speaker 7: They're they're poor and they're taken advantage of by these by the richer countries. We're going to do this for free and. It's going to help you, that's.

Speaker 6: And obviously the distrust in general, I think, is healthy, and that's and getting back to dark mirror. That's the popularity of it. I mean, it's well made for one thing, but. There's a lot of this. There's a lot of. This in movies. I mean, it's there's the spreading of. Fear or disquiet about the techno scape we're entering in it into it with such speed and it had. At these levels, it resonates.

Speaker 7: There's all this technocratic solution to everything. It's just a matter of how you administer, administer the. Actually, it's almost it's almost Marxist. If you think about it at the the administration of things. Well it all comes down to a technical problem. That you just have to administer and. For it in the water and all this other stuff, vaccinate your. These large organizations have to do to keep things running and everybody safe.

Speaker 6: And meanwhile, what is left for people? Nicholas Carr in terms of the Black Mirror thing again, of the shallows, it's an excellent book, wrote a fairly long piece of just in this past week. He says either. We're the most bored people in the history of our species or the ubiquity of distractions has made us act that way. And similar deep questions also in the piece he asks. What is it about our current reality that is so insufficient that we feel compelled to augment or improve it, that the quest of technology always well?

Speaker 7: I said yeah.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll fix that though we'll put out something on the market that will. Attend to that . And this is the case. Anyone misses this not satire built on laughs or something. It's very deeply melancholy. It's a dark thing and. It brings up her well and Cara brings up some of these other examples. Virtual reality is arriving. Anyway, if yeah, I think this has caught on to some degree, so give us a call if you like. Here's a piece that Speaking of people that are. That are resisting that are maybe thinking it over in one way or another. There was peace. By Ken Hill gunas. About a week ago in the times called this cold house. Fellow in Colorado decides to reduce theat turned down thermostat and it keeps turning it down and it's the subtitle is the my experiment with daily life at 45 degrees. It finds out it's not so. Bad and here we we expected we're going to have. 70 degrees or whatever. Not very healthy, not very healthy. And he, he says, I'm not going to say that I liked living in a 45 degree house, but eventually I didn't mind it and he begins to rethink the whole thing. And then the question of obesity even touches on that. I meand the primitivist thing you think? Oh, we'll all freeze to death. We'll all starve to death but we live in this unnatural thing that the problem now isn't starving. It's obesity, . It’s ironic, . So I mean, not that provides the answer just because of this unnatural deal. And we. We go to primitivism but it, it's another way of putting these things into question and this guy does it in a very practical sense. He keeps lowering the temperature he goes down to 55 and then even 45.

Speaker 7: And yeah, I mean that's I've thought about that before and then how how we manipulate all the environments we're. We inhabit right? And so yeah, you go to an office or you go to the grocery store or whatever. All those environments, the temperature is regulated and so your body doesn't really have to adjust to temperature changes. Maybe in the way that it would if it was in a more natural. Outside situation where you have the seasons or night is cool and day is warm whereas now. And I think I brought this up a long time ago about about lights. You know, indoor lighting and how if you don't see the sun, your body gets out of out of rhythm and then also if you're always in the same temperature range while your body just gets used to that doesn't know how to adapt. And so there's all these natural. Biological reactions, I suppose. To your environment or to the natural environment that our body isn't experiencing anymore. Because we spend so much time indoors looking at screens in an air conditioned room or heated room. And so you're taking away all these, quote UN quote. Uncomfortable aspects I guess of living outside I don't know what of how to put that. But yeah, you live in this condition environment and your body doesn't react to that stuff anymore. Your body changes. I mean, the biological function is going to change.

Speaker 6: As we try to get around what it's usually thought of as natural and this writer, this canal Gunness also mentions another point. How how fewer mountain tops need to be removed and how much fracking when you're when you're not overheating your house and the rest of it.

Speaker 7: Sure, sure right?

Speaker 6: You know, of course, it's.

Speaker 7: No have you. Your heater running your AC, running or your yeah all that.

Speaker 6: We may have a call here just before the break. I know you've brought.

Speaker 7: I got a whole bunch of stuff, but I know we you do too, so we'll see what we.

Speaker 4: It some stuff.

Speaker 7: Can do with it.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah, well, we just let it flow and somebody may want to come on or wait for the wait till after the break.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 7: I think it's coming here.

Speaker 6: OK, here we go.

Speaker 5: Yes, we have David right here.

Speaker 6: Alright, thank you.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 6: David, are you? With us

Speaker 5: Guess not.

Speaker 6: Oh, he hung up. OK thanks Carl.

Speaker 7: Let me just jump into some of the real quick I I sectioned off my stuff here so I got an environmental news. Article that's related to what were just talking about. This articles from nature.com and it's the title human adaptation manage climate, induced resettlement, and so they're talking about. How Papua New Guinea, Chinand Vietnam have already relocated. Communities are vulnerable to flooding, and so now now they've got a bunch of developing countries like Ugandand Bhutan submitting adaptation plans to the United Nations to help them move by.

Speaker 2: Thank you David.

Speaker 7: 2050 to avoid flooding and soil salinization coastal erosion, droughts and so. You know the March goes on not going to change anything, just going to move inland. So you're going to move everybody in.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that’s the solution. On offer is David with us.

Speaker 5: Yes he is.

Speaker 6: Alrighty, hello. Hi there. You're on what's.

Speaker 3: I just wanted to say that to make a Long story short on anti civilization. Civilization requires jail cells, which is torture and therefore civilization should be abandoned. That's all I want to say.

Speaker 6: It requires torture.

Speaker 3: And but I'm wondering what your response would be on that.

Speaker 6: I might have missed the first part, but he was saying.

Speaker 7: Well, I think yeah, he's saying that.

Speaker 6: It requires coercion, torture.

Speaker 3: Civilization requires jail cells.

Speaker 6: Oh, right, right right.

Speaker 3: Because the law has to have law enforcement and the law. Enforcement has to. When they arrest somebody, they got to they. Got to hold them. So they'll they'll put them in a jail cell, but jail cells are are torture in my opinion. And just on that alone, civilization is completely undesirable and should be abandoned.

Speaker 6: Well, makes me think of. Of the great quote from. In search of the primitive civilization rests on repression at home and conquest abroad. It sounds like the jail cell. Idea you're mentioning? I agree completely.

Speaker 7: Just thinking of how maybe indigenous cultures would deal with.

UNKNOWN: I don't know what.

Speaker 7: The word is infractions or, but there's nothing like jail. There's nothing like that.

Speaker 6: But you. Thanks for calling David.

Speaker 3: OK, good luck. Take care.

Speaker 6: Thank you yeah be well. Well, I think we're going to. Take a music break.

Speaker 7: Take a break.

Speaker 6: What have we got?

Speaker 7: I've got Tame Impala with apocalypse dreams.

Speaker 6: So Cliff, I know you're a big jock up there in the Rose City, but I was I'm curious about your.

Speaker 7: I like to play with some stuff. Yeah football. What's all the new thing, yeah?

Speaker 6: What about music? What are you doing in music wise?

Speaker 7: It’s not a whole. We're trying to get together once a week and play some originals and some covers and so it's a new a new thing for me is I'm trying. To play. I'm a bass player. I play bass and sing and I've never really thought I was much of a singer and playing bass and singing at the same time is weird because you can't really. You got to lock. You got to lock into the groove right? And the bass is almost like a separate melody, so you're. You're playing a melody and singing a melody, and if you make a. With the feel of the song that stands out more than strumming a chord, I think on the guitar so it's been a challenge. That's what I've been working on. Outside of collecting all these articles to bring down here. You want to you want to jump into some stuff. So I sectioned it off here, I got this tech news thing that I like this one. This from the Atlantic and it was an article called the Cathedral of Computation. And the subtitle was we're not living in an algorithmic culture so much as a computational theocracy, which I like that it's a. So it's a little bit of a critique of how big big data or big data is overwhelming everything. All this quanta quanta is a quantification of everything. So there's a couple. It's a pretty long long article. You can find it atlantic.com it's from last month, January. But let's see, the scientific revolution was meant to challenge tradition and faith, particularly of faith and religious superstition. But today enlightened lightmen ideas like reason and science are beginning to flip into their opposites. Science and technology have become so pervasive and distorted. They have turned into a new type of theology. He goes on to try to say or define what an algorithm is, and he's saying like you can replace the word algorithm with God and it basically turns into a theological. Statement so he was saying, like metaphors, algorithms or simplifications or distortions. They're caricatures they take a complex system from the world and abstract it into a process that captures some of that system's logic and discard others as it's just a you’re focusing in on what can be. Quantified and throwing out a bunch of other stuff. So it's,. I thought that was an interesting article. And of course, at the end he says, oh, but we, a culture with computers is OK, but he doesn't want a computational bureaucracy where everything is. So I will want to go. A little further. But, and he does bring up Nicholas Carr quite a bit in the in the article, so it's it was.

Speaker 4: A good read.

Speaker 7: Got some good ideas. In it, yeah.

Speaker 6: Well, those questions, I mean when you. Sometimes it leads into those questions of what is thinking, what is thought and how, how little we know about any of these things.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: You know, despite the vaunted claims and promises, and. And even to some degree achievements with AI and so forth still.

Speaker 7: Yeah, AI's so built on these algorithms and processing datand coming up with basically predictions on what to do next. And that's it's computation computationally based, right? It's, but I think it's qualitative, qualitatively different than.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so too. And so far, Speaking of AI, the plays a mean game of chess, but that's recognizing patterns and. To make some computational predictions right of moves, if you can do hundreds of millions of moves per second, you can run that it through a machine, which of course is what it is.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: But that's not thinking. There was a piece somewhere.

Speaker 7: It's not aware of anything else going on around it, whereas the person sitting there in the chair would be aware of the other person there, the audience, if there is an audience and that all has an effect on. I mean, you wouldn't think directly, but indirectly the environment is going to have an effect on what that person is thinking at that time. Whereas the computer is like in a vacuum, it's alienated and only processing this specific. Is number crunching. Basically it's not thinking and that's it's dislocated alienated computational.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. Whereas A3 year old can recognize a cat that they haven't figured out a way for a machine to. Do that.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: A young child with a giant brain port brain.

Speaker 7: Yeah, there's all kinds of.

Speaker 6: Of course it's not a brain. And then when and then consciousness not to get way off in everything here but. That always just I just find that so fascinating. No one has the slightest clue what consciousness is, meaning that the general sense of self consciousness mainly where. If you want to say it's just that £3.00 of stuff up above your eyebrows.

Speaker 3: Well, but we're.

Speaker 6: Able to be looking out from that £3.00 of meat and aware that we're doing that and no no, and that's what consciousness is, but that’s a very.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 6: That's not much of a definition, and it's no explanation for it. And it's to me, it's remarkable how how many people try to get around that with the very quote scientific mode? In other words, I think it's Daniel Dennett who's whose thesis there really isn't consciousness. That's one way to do it, you. Just deny it's.

Speaker 7: Yeah, just get rid of it. Sure, yeah.

Speaker 6: An illusion the brain sets up these deals and then we call it. Not just that, that just seems ridiculous to me. It just doesn't seem adequate. Why aren't we zombies? I mean, you could imagine zombies who can. Do, do everything except they're not aware of their that they are the eye that's doing these things.

Speaker 7: Anyway, yeah, alright well yeah I. My thought process broke down to be honest. I had something to say and then I lost it as I as I was thinking about what you were saying, so that's no breakthrough in consciousness, right?

Speaker 6: It's funny stuff, maybe you'll maybe you'll go back to.

Speaker 7: That computer wouldn't do that, but I would.

Speaker 6: No, the safe engineer. You know we're all. Unplug you. Then we think about some of these awful. Well we have a phone call, which I'm sure.

Speaker 5: Won't be awful. Yes, we have Alex here.

Speaker 6: Hi there. Only half an hour a week, hello. Hi there, I didn't hear anything.

Speaker 5: Hey I can hear.

Speaker 7: You yeah you mean beauty, yeah?

Speaker 6: OK, what's up?

UNKNOWN: Oh Oh well I.

Speaker 8: Was just listening to your discussion. Of AI and I. Really liked what Cliff had to say about the computer. Sort of operating it avoid a stimuli that is. Pretty much the case for how. They operate right now and like. You said John as far as playing chess goes through the. There's a finite parameter space South. Of course, the computer with sufficient resources can extrapolate a persons moves out to all the potential possibilities and choose the right move, but. As far as object recognition goes, actually Google has gotten to the point where they have a computer that is able to recognize objects visually with a high degree of accuracy. It's not like you said thinking, but the other point I wanted to make. Is you're right? We absolutely have no idea what consciousness is or where it comes from, but of course there is always theory and I think as we see AI develop we'll. Be able to somewhat. Test this a little bit. Consciousness is an emergent property of the sufficient concentration of computational resource that, as sufficient density of information and processing of that information, occurs that you sort of get out of the emergence of those chaotic relationships, something that resembles the self-awareness that we do that I was curious as to what you think.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, well, that's

Speaker 6: Well, that seems like a real leap of faith. That's that's the. That's the gamble. That's what these transhumanists say. We'll just get to this point where there'll be a quantum leap. A qualitative change. But that's like magic. I mean, it's there. There's no basis for it, it's there. I mean, I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I don't know is that much. About it, but why?

Speaker 8: But that. Also reminds me of the. Debate between the Neo Darwinists and the intelligent design slash creationist people on irreducible complexity is consciousness. One of these phenomena. We want to identify the irreducibly complex or is. It possible that. It can emerge as. Something less complex.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean so far they haven't made good on much of this and they don't have the answers with this. They can. They can promise something but. You know, very little of this has come to pass so far, and that's that. Seems like complete if you want to believe that. I mean that, and certainly for people, do you not?

Speaker 8: Oh, I don't personally know. I mean, that sounds awful. Hope so.

Speaker 6: Personally no.

Speaker 8: The test is going to be really at least from my perspective. The big push toward exascale computing, the DOE just threw a bunch of money and companies that already have enough, surely, but they threw money. IBM, Intel, AMD and I think Invidialso all these big. Computational companies, because what they want to do is drive down our requirements for computation so that. They can ramp up. The scale of the. Computing within the same power budget and.

Speaker 7: Right, right, right.

Speaker 2: So it's going to.

Speaker 8: Be interesting to. See and honestly, I often wonder about if there are things going on within these. Massive architected systems. They are a little bit autonomous a. Little bit weird. If you will, outside of the control of engineers, purely from a practical perspective, less even in the speculative domain of intelligence. Like you said, there is the ever increasing dependency on experts. Also the reticence to trust them, but we're also seeing in a lot of these. Literatures that you. Guys bring up. The residents of. Experts trust systems itself.

Speaker 7: Right? Yeah, I think you brought up the emergence right? So this the idea of emergence is really catching on. That's really strong, and I think also when you're talking about the increase in computational power, this all going towards quantum computing. If you want to get down to the technical stuff which. And it sounds like you probably understand. What I'm talking about. So the yeah, I mean, so they're trying to change the basis I guess for computation to go to this quantum direction so they can process even more stuff and have a whole right a whole variety of things be processed at simultaneously basically and.

Speaker 8: Orders of magnitude. More yes.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and then you're looking for this. Emergent like and I think what you're pointing at is consciousness, maybe as an emergent phenomenon from all these other processes that are.

Speaker 8: Well, in the same way that I mean clearly.

Speaker 9: Going on.

Speaker 8: Consciousness, because we're experiencing it and we're biological, it emerged out of biology somewhere down. The line but.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 8: We can't identify that either, of course, because that's so deeply buried in the past.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 7: The I guess the issue or the problem I have with what? Maybe transhumanists are doing is they're always trying to create? It's all based on a model, right? Because you're not going to. It's unless they.

Speaker 3: It's the whole.

Speaker 8: It's that high Church of scientism you're talking about. Oh, really.

Speaker 7: Right, it's around, but they have to. They have to have a model and then work towards that model and then you got to keep.

Speaker 8: And that's almost.

Speaker 7: Going back and right.

Speaker 8: Backward, at least from my perspective. From the Xbox perspective, it's like should we start with observation, ?

Speaker 7: So I mean their whole approach. It doesn't seem like it's ever going to, you have something, maybe that models consciousness, but it will never be consciousness.

Speaker 8: Right, it'll be a good mimic.

Speaker 7: I guess what I'm trying to.

Speaker 8: They have those now the talking devices. You type something in, it comes back to something that's semantically correct, maybe even via believable response or an actual person. But like John was saying earlier about the chess, just because they can programmatically generate a situationally appropriate response does not. Make it thinking.

Speaker 7: Right, yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 6: Hey thanks very much Alex.

Speaker 8: Yeah no, I just wanted you to bring that up and John it's great to speak to you again. Hope to keep listening.

Speaker 6: Oh, thank you. Man, yeah, and of course what we stress a lot is the techno escape itself. The techno culture and these people are really good at ignoring how bereft society is getting while they pursue these gleaming.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 6: Ideals are something they don't know anything about it and don't want to. Know anything about they've been right for that?

Speaker 2: The cost of.

Speaker 8: It well like. It's set off and someone has to. Go down into the mine.

Speaker 6: Yeah, there's that.

Speaker 8: It was a Baptist organization in Australia last year, published a report basically about the corporate accountability for supply chains in the electronic industry and the one thing. That they found. Of course, is that this information is very deeply. Married deliberately, only Nokia could account for much more of their supply chain the final assembly stage, everyone. Else basically said. We don't know what you don't know.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's off the table.

Speaker 8: Where everything comes from.

Speaker 6: Yeah, OK well. Take care man.

Speaker 8: Yeah you too.

Speaker 6: Be good, that's a good one. And this my little example of the week on this one, and I haven't got a hold of this book but Franco Berardi. Someone sent it. A book called Heroes Mass Murder and Suicide about the shootings. About the. Unending speed of the shootings, the. Chronic shooting sprees ask the question, what is the relationship between capitalism and mental health? Well, let's assume. It's all about capitalism and or mental health, which I don't think is quite exactly, but here's the punchline. According to the description, Berardi develops the psychoanalytical insights of his friend Guattari, the psychiatrists of those and country. And proposes proposes dystopian irony as a strategy to disentangle ourselves from the deadly embrace of absolute capitalism.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6: This guy is a Marxist he doesn't see. Deeper than capitalism, but distopian irony.

Speaker 7: That sounds like djax approach.

Speaker 6: Yeah I guess so.

Speaker 7: Dystopian irony.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right, Chief Jack. Also Eric Gordon and his nihilist friends. It's just all, a joke. There's no Stan, there's no, there's no values. There's no conclusions. There's no, it's just let's have a laugh It’s just a bunch of irony. And of course, it's just hoping at least they realize that. But how could it be? That's the solution that this doping party.

Speaker 7: So it's almost like a coping mechanism that I don't know. You're shutting yourself down to.

Speaker 2: There you go.

Speaker 7: Seriously considering stuff.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah. And as the color brought up, here's a little bit of the civilizational blight of the week stuff very quickly, just to almost at random mercury levels. And yellowfin tuna caught in the Pacific have been rising. The mercury levels and added 3.8% annual rate since 1998. According to the LA Times. Sturgeon in the Caspian Sea declining. To about a zero level, according to the Azure News from Azerbaijan. 37 cancer villages are called in central and northern Vietnam caused by contaminated water in China. 90 per cent of cities failed to meet air quality standards in 2014 and the Moscow Times yesterday. Reported that the Emergency Situations Ministry. That's the new ministry I guess. Or maybe not, reports another mystery stench and warns Muscovites to keep their windows shut. Once again, it's so it's just a mystery. It's just poisonous, but we don't know what it is and just one more. From Montana underground oil and gas leaks cause. Arsenic spikes according to the US Geological Survey.

Speaker 7: Yeah, that's great. I got something really similar to that. This from the Guardian. It's the rate of environmental degradation. Puts life on Earth at risk and there's some great quotes in here. I'm going to read a few. This I don't know who it's from anyway. He says we are clearing land we are degrading. And where we introduce feral animals and take out top predators, we change the marine ecosystem by overfishing. It's death by 1000, cuts that direct impact on the land is the most important factor right now, even more than climb. That change and then it's a if the Earth is going to move to a warmer state 5 to 6 degrees Celsius warmer with no ice caps, it will do so, and that won't be good for large mammals. People say the world is robust and that's true. There will be life on earth, but the earth won't be robust for us. I just every other couple morning. Some people say we can adapt due to technology, but that's a belief system. It's not based on fact. There is no convincing evidence that a large mammal with a core body temperature of 3437 Celsius will be able to evolve that quickly. Insects can, but humans can't, and that's a problem. History has shown that civilization has have civilizations have risen, stuck to their core values, and then collapsed because they didn't change. That's where we are today.

Speaker 6: Ohh yes well. Very succinct. And now for some Action News. I don't have a lot here.

Speaker 7: Yeah, do it.

Speaker 6: But might as well fire away here. What is her name? Emma Shepherd in Bristol? Was I think busted and convicted, but on New Year's Eve she allegedly positioned 3 homemade traps. Nail filled pieces of plywood. Near 3 police cars and disabled them. Who bristled? Crown Court looks askance at that? And let's see. After after cops killed 2 betel nut vendors, there was a five day blockade of commerce in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea. Last week power plants had to be shut down among other. Functions of January 28. Villages blockaded a road in Oinam Or yeah, or india for two days in opposition to government. A government moved to take over communal pasture, ground burning logs and tires blocking the highway, January 31st in Deep Slute, north of Johannesburg, South Africa. About 100 stones throwing people attempted a mass squat of vacant land barely subdued by stun grenades, rubber bullets and tear gas. And another from. India February 1 Sunday. International highway. Between Indiand Myanmar was blocked for the third day by women demanding the removal of the army, which was controlling. The highway near Imphal. India late last week. This a little out of order. Late last week in the Turkish village of Saurier near Istanbul. In fact, I think it was originally part of Istanbul anarchists and Alf has destroyed the gate and fences of a compound established to kill St Anna. There was a lot of support for this action, which was seen as part of a wider resistance. To Urban Development, which is ruining Istanbul. And today in the Pereval Amazon hundreds are blocking a river flowing into the Amazon over oil operations. Reed contaminating their home operations cables. They put up cables that have stopped any oil vessels from passing. Oh, and here's a great one. This in closing little and a little bit lighter vein. Missoula Mt Police Department hasked for Homeland Security money due to an upcoming extremist hazard, namely the Rainbow Gathering.

Speaker 7: It sounds pretty violent.

Speaker 6: I think so dangerous as hippies, I guess, so it's it. It is the security state that. That's where the pigs kill unarmed people every day. Probably not among rainbow gatherings, folks, I don't imagine. All righty. You we we hardly, I thought we're really going to talk about technology a lot more studies we did.

Speaker 7: You got a. Well, we did, but we do.

Speaker 6: We did somewhat in a general sense.

Speaker 7: But yeah, we both have a ton of other stuff.

Speaker 6: We do, why didn't they give energy radio another hour?

Speaker 7: I know we need another hour this week.

Speaker 6: We demand another hour. Yeah, the. Well, we don't have much. Time, but here's a quickie about sleep.

Speaker 7: Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 6: You know there's. Well, there's. An article. Last month about. Sleeplessness if your if your sleep is of poor quality it really is a contributing factor down the line to dementia. And then. The probably more well known of the studies about smartphone exposure and kids and teenagers and so forth, ruins their sleep patterns and has a marked impact on sleep quality, as well as increasing depression and anxiety. Probably heard this before, right?

Speaker 7: Yeah, I've got stuff on that. Similar stuff, yeah?

Speaker 6: And it's just and then. But if you turn the page, I'm looking at an article. Actually, in the New York Times.

Speaker 3: Yeah, this.

Speaker 7: It's exactly the this exact.

Speaker 2: Take it away.

Speaker 7: Well no, that's not the one I have, but it's go. Ahead and say it.

Speaker 6: Well, it's just that this a big article personal tech column called bedtime technology for a better night's sleep. In other words, you need more technology.

Speaker 7: Monitor monitors your sleep activity when you're sleeping, so it'll give you an idea something like. That it gives. You quantitative feedback on how you can sleep better.

Speaker 6: Never mind again, it's the technology that creates the problem in general.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and this this all the. stuff that I brought up to or have listed here, so my health news just these real quick. One of these. Articles cancer among under 80s could beaten by 2050 and there's some quotes in here about oh, they're big gains and against infectious disease, probably through antibiotics, right? second-half. Of the 20th century Big drops in vascular. These, that's like blood pressure medication and surgery and things like that. OK, and then you go to this next one. Next article I've got super bugs, could kill 10 million per year by 2050, so the same year they say under 80 will beat cancer were and then I didn't read the rest of it. Super bugs, super bugs. Would kill 10 million per year in 2050, more than cancer, and so the superbugs why are those happening? Because they're are resistant to antibiotics, which what were the big things that we gained in the first half of the 20th? And then there's another one hybrid super mosquito resistant to incesticide treated. Insecticide, excuse me, it's not incesticide insecticide treated bed Nets so. It .

Speaker 6: Yeah, crazy.

Speaker 7: There's all this, yeah, it all counteracts each other.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and I had stuff on tech too about the CES. The big Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. They've got like smart guns, guns equipped with Linux operating systems, and you can stream your hunt and so then this company tracking point that says they're famous for precision guided personal firearms, allowing even the lousiest shot to kill moving targets from a mile away. And then there's all this Internet of healthy things. CES, like you were talking about Bluetooth, enabled Pacifier to track child's temperature. Sensor laden children's mattress to monitor a child's sleep habits. A wearable baby monitor to monitor an infant's well-being.

Speaker 6: Because they're too busy on their smartphones to check on their child.

Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you just feed it all into the computer and the computer tells you what to do and.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 6: And the people are the sleeping monitoring. So many more people live alone. They don't have a partner or anyone else to would who would be doing that. So it has to be a machine which is the reason in a in a sense why there's no partner.

Speaker 7: It's really so ridiculous. It's just, oh, we're out of time at the end of this. There's this technocratic political statement. I think it's just hilarious. Policies policymakers need to understand that the rules they make will impact consumer access to the technology. Given the importance of the Internet of Things. Policymakers should tread, tread lightly and avoid unnecessary regulations that might impede innovation in this space.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll go out on that.

Speaker 6: Wow, OK. Thank you Cliff. It'll just be Carl with me next. Week, so join us.

Speaker 9: The wide wide ocean I have dreamed completely covered in gasoline. Never seen the rainbow so slick and shining. Never seen the rainbow so violent I've seen that. My faucet drips into the sea, but I can't let that bother me. Ocean claims cities and spat back well for garbage bills. All the prisoners were freed from the jail, so many drowned beneath the sails, capsized, boats and Navy coats occupied surfaced online afloat.

01-27-2015

[audio]

Contemporary indigenous writing, new exhibit. Aushwitz. Autonomy, redemption. Ad of the week. Anti-civ = "deathist"! "green syndicalism"! Scary news, why so many threats, signs of collapse? It's a MYSTERY! we are told. Action news.

01-20-2015

[audio]

Choctaw poet Jim Barnes. Spill, disease outbreak, shooting recall, torture chamber - of the week. Keystone XL is a decoy, George Monbiot's phoney "rewilding." Oceans dying, terrorism spreading, but action reports.

01-13-2015

[audio]

Kathan on point. Paris hit. Terrorism or resistance. The emptiness of civilization, dire symptoms increase, Franz Fanon, M. Houellebecq, Pico Iyer, Ulrich Beck. Dodge commercial: "Driving is a holy endeavor." Action reports and new developments.

01-06-2015

[audio]

Is Wagner's Parsifal operanarcho-primitivist? 2014 hottest on record, Snowpiercer best movie of 2014. "Black Mirror" series critiques techno-future. Zuckerberg TIME's Man of the Year, year of selfies narcissism. Cops get a taste of the gunfire, mass society gets more unhealthy. Resistance news, including new ITS-type action groups (Chile, Argentina).

2014

12-23-2014

[audio]

Cyberwarfare with N. Korea - just the beginning. "Why Sit on Santa's Lap, When You Can Use an App?" Ads of the week. "Raising Beef is Good for the Planet." More eco-collapse, recalls, shootings. New EF! Journal. Action news, three calls.

12-16-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Sydney hostages, Pakistan school massacre, US rampage shootings: it's all terrorism. Peace police and identity politics racket vs. Berkeley/Oakland resistance. Weather politics, anti-work, more disorders from technology. Action briefs, two calls.

12-09-2014

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. MAJOR resistance, especially in Berkeley. Suddenly a "New Age" of contestation? Tech ruins memory - so what? Humans didn't drive Mastodons to extinction. Nihilism no substitute for liberatory anti-politics. Let's play "Really??" Action briefs, two calls.

12-02-2014

[audio]

Morales and nukes: indigenous opposition. Anti-misanthropy from Uncivilized Animals. Pluses and minuses of anarchy milieu as 2014 nears its end. Corrosive cynicism of anarchistnews.org; nihilism as retardant. Action news.

11-25-2014

[audio]

Second half of Roman civ essay. Riflebird on Black Seed: "depressing hangover." Wild Reaction blows up telethon for disabled kids in Mexico - wtf? Farenheit 451 as anti-tech novel. Action reports.

11-18-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Zoltan KO'd at Stanford! Much discussion air re: Stanford event - and topics not discussed there e.g. trans-humanist fetish of immortality vs. dealing with death. Action news, two calls.

11-11-2014

[audio]

Reading "Arrivederci Roma," some weekly news. Black Seed #2 on anthropology. Resistance to online "life"--and even to electricity. Action news.

11-06-2014

[audio]

Autism and civ; Alzheimer's and isolation. Cars, rockets, Zizek, Kingsnorth fail big. Whither Girl Scouts? New films. France explodes, pro-ZAD-wise. Lots of other action news, one call.

10-28-2014

No show tonight. John is out sick.

10-14-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Key role of Kurdish women fighters. Politics of AIDS/Ebola. Gaming discussion. Isolation, withdrawal in tech society. Siri as unhealthy response to autism epidemic. Action news, one call.

10-14-2014

[audio]

NPR vetoes JZ interview. Ebola raging, Cindy whining. Eco news, suicides up. Illusions of green energy. Action news, our media news. Three calls.

10-07-2014

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. News of anarchists in Turkey in solidarity with Kurds, fighting to smash ISIS and Turkish state. Spark by John Twelve Hawks, The Human Age by Diane Ackermain (thumbs down on the latter). Lets play "Really??" Techno-follies, action news, one call.

09-30-2014

[audio]

Kathan is co-host. Wisdom Sits in Places by Keith Basso, "Swimming through Garbage" by Lewis Pugh. Half of earth's wildlife killed off since 1970. FBI: mass shootings on the rise, as are health crises, recalls and sites of resistance. Action news, four far-flung calls.

09-23-2014

[audio]

Heat, emissions set new records: 300,000 in NYC demonstrate their impotence. And There Was Light by Jacques Lusseyran, Treblinka by Jean-Francois Steiner vs. nihilism/cynicism. Report from Whiteaker 'hood, Eugene. Planet of unhealth, new anti-industrial voices, one call.

09-16-2014

[audio]

io9 interview responses (!) "Were We Happier in the Stone Age? (The Guardian 5 September). Civilization and violence, drive-through funeral parlor. Climate Summit farce. Add lithium to drinking water? Two calls.

09-09-2014

[audio]

The Double Life of Paul de Man by Evelyn Barish, reply to Wolfi's "On Radical Moralism and Wildness." io9 interview questions, Ward Churchill interviewed on Fox News. Rampant disease, violence. No water? Paint your lawn green! Action news, ITS is now Wild Reaction.

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: WWBBBAAA Hey WV 888. 1111 kW.

UNKNOWN: VA, Eugene

Speaker 2: Sup, Sup, Sup Sup Sup.

Speaker 3: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 4: Alright, you're listening to KWV AU gene. It's time for anarchy radio. John and I are in the studio at 541-346-0645. We'll be taking your calls in just a few minutes, but first we have a little something from Los Lobos.

Speaker 5: Slowest to me because the places. Say something to me. It is better than white with a mansion love. Along the side of the pickup truck. Out of the night, just never think seen man, another headline written down in America. The guy then lived next door 305. Took the kids to the park and disappeared by. Half last night. Know how much you love them soul. Night alone in America. Something about the home of the brave. Playing ball in the parking lot. A preacher, a teacher and the other. Became a cop. Get it into the rain, making the little. One more light. She gave away a life to become an American. So much faith.

Speaker 3: The graveless levels. He's still a. If anything, radio coming away on September 9th we just compare. Were comparing smoke stories as. It burns. To the east of here just a. Bit well, OK, come along down the road council will be here on the 30th of September and Cliff October 7th. It's a little ways. Away and I happen. On to something this afternoon you might be interested in Ward Churchill. And today and. Tomorrow, and I'm sure you can find this. Find the recording of Fox News. Megyn Kelly is one of the flatter societies anchors over there. A two-part thing. And of course it's. So far, it's exclusively about what he had to. Say about 9:11. And responsibility and. It was good. I saw the first half. The part one anyway. And yeah, he was definitely holding his own and I have to say she wasn't interrupting. Sometimes they just keep jamming you and interrupting and. You don't even get to. Give out a complete sentence, but. Yeah, I mean it was the IT was the usual right wing. But ended sealed Ward holding forth. I don't know when that is it's afternoon. Hey, I'm not sure which hour. Pacific Daylight Time. And pick up on the rest of it. Speaking of interviews, I got one to fill out for IO9. Have you ever heard of Iona?

Speaker 4: Yeah the website, yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a web magazine science and science fiction and stuff like that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, It’s sort of. It's a little heavy on the science fiction gaming fandom. I don't really read it regularly, but something interesting comes across on it.

Speaker 3: I see the name sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it.

Speaker 4: I haven't decided whether or not I'm annoyed by it.

Speaker 3: Right, so there ain't too much science called science to it, huh?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. It's mostly like fandom and comic books. Oh, great see. Even the good ones.

Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. Maybe it's better than Fox News wouldn't take a lot. I thought I'd throw out a couple of questions I have to do this. Tonight I guess it's just great. I mean they have definitely pro science, if not transhumanists here. Yeah, I thought I'd mentioned a couple it cracked me. Futurists argue that things are getting better and that through responsible foresight and planning we can create their future. We imagine tell us why you disagree. Wow, how many many days you have. And then there's one. Some futurists argue that ongoing technological progress, both in robotics and AI, will lead to an automation revolution, one that will free us from dangerous and demeaning work. It's possible that we'll be able to invent our way out of the current labor model that you're so opposed to. What do you have to say? About this Wow, yeah it's less and less work all the time, isn't it? With tech with more and more technology. I just wonder what do they ever have they ever had any brush with reality and one more? There’s several here. But transhumanists, they switch from futures for some reason. Advocate for the iterative improvement of the human species, things like enhanced intelligence and memory, the elimination of psychological disorders, including depression. Greater physical capacities. Gee, tell us why you're so opposed to these things. I'm not opposed to those things at all, but the point is, the technology produces precisely the opposite result, isn't it? There’s no enhanced intelligence, it's making people Dumber all the time. Memory what's the that's being erased you don't need. Any memory anymore? Elimination of psychological disorders. That's that's hilarious. Yeah, in greater physical capacities, we're just these flaccid beings sitting in front of a screen, when once were strong it's just unbelievable. It's like it's like, they’re doing a parody here, but they're not aware of it. OK, we'll have a little sport with that and see if they. Yeah, they probably won't censor it while I'm reading or I'm just about finished with the double life of Paul Demon. The brand new book by Evelyn Barrish pulled him on. He's usually paired. He's often paired with Jacques Derrida in the Deconstruction Department, and at one point I think, especially in this country he was practically worshipped. He was the acne. The apotheosis of theory, literary theory, which which was extended past literature. Or say, but he was just a God. He, he invented all these fabulous postmodern things. And he discovered it came out in 1988, that he'd been a Nazi and occupied Belgium. He's. Belgian, they got over here through various scams anyway. Yeah, he worked. For lace war, which was the big collaborationist newspaper? I mean just a really nasty past. They made-up his past. He was always forging resumes and so forth. And anyway, this book is not. About that, and it's not about ideas either. It's about his life, the double life of Palma. The guy is unbelievable, I just couldn't. I had no idea I. Mean I don't know how you top what he did in the wartime Belgium. I don't think you could, but. Also a few manners of bigamy, forgery, theft, constant lying, he defrauded an endless stream of friends, relatives, colleagues and unbelievable. He was just a complete sham, a complete bogus guy that he was what the possible relevance. Is that? You can hear a lot of nonsense. And but a lot of people take it seriously. That's going in that direction here, anyway. Yeah, how on earth? I mean, he was. I guess he was pretty charismatic and he could be charming and he could make up a good story and then skip down on people and all the rest of it. It's just an amazing story. Quite a case. Also a complete narcissist. And be bringing in the egoism just a little bit. One of his wives and he was married to several people at the same time. At different times he would. Apparently stared at himself in the mirror. If that isn't Narcissus and went for hours. And he was a complete freak and, and worse than that, anyway. It's quite a fascinating new book. And you and then you. You think back? What is deconstruction? You know the whole idea that there is no stable truth or meaning, that language itself is so unstable. It's not really possible. To fix anything to make anything firm. It's just an old.. It all sort of scatters it. It scatters away and so it's an illusion to think you can really say anything. And you'll hold the whole deconstruction is staying the undecidability the all that stuff? It's that's what's at theart of it. And it reminded me, and maybe this conceivably pertinent to this. The story of Alan Sokal back in 1996, by the way, demon. Died of a brain tumor. I think in 94 as the scandal broke and actually had he had various defenders and hard to believe. Even with all of this, his record. He did have definite. Alan Sokal is an NYU physics professor. In 1996. Maybe he still is. And he wrote a piece for social text Speaking of theory, quote theory, the postmodern. Stuff everything is. Everything is equal to everything else or nothing. You know,. It's a nihilist point of view when you think about it. That whole general way of thinking and thinking in quotes I guess. They were he. They published this piece by so-called called transgressing the boundaries towards a transformative hermeneutics of quantum group. Pretty, that sounds pretty heavy use in physics guy. And you wonder what this sounds like a physics piece, right? The social text does nothing to do with physics, but the point of it. I think the bottom line is gravity, like everything else, is a cultural construct construct. You know, right that’s classic post modernism. There's no name. You know, it's all cultural. Construct and there's always been culture. There's nothing before culture, so therefore it's all just text, and you can play with it, and it's some of the. Main lines of this stuff. So yeah, so that's the thrust of this piece which they published. Gravity is a cultural construct, right? I mean. Does any did they have anybody with tiny? Two atoms of brain matter to rub together anyway, he came out and said, this just outright nonsense, but he packaged it in a postmodern in terms of postmodern phrases and buzzwords, and all the rest of it. And it really burned people because it was exactly that. It was just a perfect illustration of all this gibberish that amounts to nothing. The whole cop out of postmodernism. Yeah, gravity is just. It's just a literary thing, it's just on paper. It's just the culture decides what's real. You know that all that sort of thing. And yeah, then he, he had. He had the fact that he had to point it out such complete. Remarkably blatant crapola. Yeah, gravity and there was swallowing and then. So then all these people were burned, burned off. For example, he was sore. He said what a bad joke or this was written in bad faith and absolutely avoiding the point. Absolutely missing the point. Well, So what if it's whatever you think about it was a joke or the. The good faith or bad? The this the point. This what he wrote and everybody swallowed it. And yeah, it was just a a marvelous. Little scandal back then and. And now I mean this stuff is even wrong. I mean you can. You can find all kinds of articles saying, well, that was yeah, post modernism. 70s eighties maybe into the 90s? That's been dead for a long time. Oh no. Oh no, it's infected, the culture and we're still getting a dose of that no matter where you turn. It is not over. Something in reality has to change for it to be all over. I would say I mean sure there are fashions. There are fads in academia. So-called theory, but yeah, I don't think what's the evidence for that. Is that not still current? And with all this nihilism like the call or a couple of weeks ago it was said, oh, Niall isn't could meanything. And Eric Gorn up in Seattle at the anarchist bookfair. It's all just stories. My story is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. They're just sneering at any serious stuff. I mean, that's. That's funny I guess, but at times he's maybe he would like some. Analysis, Or, trying to get somewhere instead of just joking about it. So in this way, I brought up those two things and. Oh, it's 5413460645. We didn't have any calls last week and maybe we might.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 3: We might break through. Carl was checking the phone. Ah, yes, it's operative.

UNKNOWN: You have a.

Speaker 4: Thumbs up.

Speaker 3: Good we will see. Well, there was a recent let's see where did. This pop up. Oh, I know. Of course I do. The one year anniversary of free radical radio down in the East Bay? They've they've run a few interviews, a rather terrific 1. With Natashalvarez, who wrote luminal and he's accomplished various other things and is working on other things as well. Anyway, they had a thing with me. I was I was talking with Bellamy a while back and. So they used some. Of that And there was a throwaway line. Yes, I'm afraid there was a little. Snarky comment about egoism and one or two people said in the anarchist news posts. You know the responses thing. How come they were? It was a challenge to me. You can't do anything except these little one liners. These little trash talk. Where is the content? I mean what? That doesn't really cut it. You know you should come out with something if you have analysis of egoism. That might be a little better than just these little jabs. Well, I did write something about that not too long ago, is it? And I think I'm just going to. Is it the response actually short? It's a response to something we'll be land striker wrote called on radical moralism and wildness. And maybe this unfair. I'm not going to read that. It's a little longish. But I'll try to do justice to the main lines of it, basically. It’s a. It's a critique of primitivism of Anarcho primitivism and the and the watchword, the main mantra here is that everything must come from the self. That's repeated throughout Wolfie's article and so. Getting back to the tunnel and radical moralism and wildness, the piece argues or states that anarcho primitivism is moralistic, even religious. Definitely a part of civilization, which is news to most of. Us, I guess, and that. It even puts and it puts in the question what does wildness mean? And he says I don't know what it means and civilization is pretty elusive. You know what? What does that mean? And I find that ridiculous. It's there's no mystery. You know de domesticating if you're moving away from domestication. If that hasn't been said often enough, I don't know how we missed that and civilization. It's the it's the classic definition. It’s the the dictionary definition. There's no, there's no tricky stuff there. It’s domestication. And the rest of it. But the other parts of it, the emergence of. Cities upon sedentary agricultural modes and people starting to overpopulate all I mean that's no. There's no dispute about that. There's no controversy. Oh, this means. I mean, you can emphasize different parts of it, but the fundamental thing is not a not at all open to question. It's no mystery. Anyway, and the last part, the reference to wildness, I think basically to some. The point is, while this something set up above, over and above the ego, it's some outside conception or reification and therefore it's oppressive and authoritarian. Because everything has to come from the ego. But one thing you could say about that. Not egoism, that isn't an article of belief that whole set of ideas that claims that everything is about the ego, and it's the only value and everything. Well, that's your point of view, but You know, it's like the whole ideological thing, everybody, everything you disagree with is an ideology and but not yours because you don't. You're not ideological, right? I mean, that's. That's a well worn thing. And it doesn't. It doesn't really work that well, I don't think. I have to say it does. So I would I would have short things less than a page and you might you take it as you will. I mean, it's you might think it's excessive, but. It’s just a somewhat brief response to the article here we have textbook egoism, a classic bit of solipsistic worship of 1 sovereign self. How it can pass itself off as anti civilization is among the key mysteries. A few years ago in Olympia, WA, IG got into an argument with Wolfie Land striker. He claimed, outrageously, I thought that anarcho primitivism slash green anarchy is largely rhetoric, thinking that it was egoism that bore that distinction. I asked him if he had ever in speaking or writing. Use the word domestication. He said no. This par for the egoist course. If civilization has a founding principle, a core logic, it is domestication. Leading Egoist will be as ignorant about civilization. He chooses to remain ignorant, ignorant on the topic because only his sacred subjectivity is the measure of civilization as it is the measure of everything. This remarkable no nothingism overlooks the blindingly obvious fact that civilization exists beyond the ego. Another and quite related deficiency is the patented anti moralism tack. Of course the hip and lies are quite beyond morals or ethics. The latter stuff is there to be constantly mocked. Consult thoroughly postmodern aerogard, who never tires of such mockery. 1 irony is that Marxists have often levied the charge of moralism. Against those who substitute moral indignation for analysis, I'm no Marxist, but really, that's just what's on offer here. Substituting subjective feelings for analysis. Or even acknowledgement of real. And the authors opposed an opposition to civilization. Comes down to the same foundation. I'm against civilization because it gets in the way of quote my full enjoyment of myself. ** *** even then admits early on that he doesn't know what is meant by civilization. The writer seems to define himself as a monad as singular, quite separate, being consulting only himself. But whether we like it or not, and some of us definitely like it, we are connected to and to some degree define. By the rest of the world, past and present no one's vaunted self exists in a vacuum. Even if this rider wants to pretend otherwise. Interesting that ego has never used such words as nature or earth, for example. As for the wildness part of the tunnel and what follows, one sees more salts. ISM wildness, if defined, would thus be oppressive, domesticated. Much better to be in the dark about it as with civilization. But there is so much available to help us see what wildness or non domestication has meant in practice. What it still means to those attempting to live outside domestication and civilization? Reality, however, distracts from gazing in adoration at one's radical subjectivity detracts from its inviolate fountainhead of any and all resistance. This piece is almost too obtuse and ridiculous to merit comment. Unfortunately its narcissism and severe limitations seemed to speak to some. It's not that Sterner wrote nothing of value by the way, far from. Limit but his content should be obvious and commonplace by now. In any case, there is a world that demands insights about how it got this way, how it works in order to equip ourselves, to dismantle it. Self absorbed ignorance is unhelpful to this project. OK. And you could call up and. Object if you want well. I was. I was talking to Allison and she advised me why don't you bank down the fires of the horrific stuff that's happened during the week? It's very depressing. It's dispiriting. There's so much of it and you just. You know, deal it out in an unremitting and unremitting length so I don't think I will. I mean, but I'm just going to give you just a little. I can't help it and then. We'll, we'll have a break and then move on to and other things. One of the things, in terms of everything's getting better and we're improving everything on all of the iOS thing. For IO9 Point of view of the. Of the very pro technology folks. You know, I'd say it again, we're just awash in. This. Infectious and also degenerative diseases. Chronic illness I mean just and the latest thing that just started coming out this weekend. A could possibly severe respiratory illness, sweeping through parts of the US. It’s from North Carolina to Colorado as of this morning. It's a virus and yeah, just these that's not a. Plague, I mean we. Wouldn't compare it to Ebola, although it may, it may affect this. This in terms of children. That's the thing here. It’s really hitting kids and. And I hope we don't see this really deepening and spreading more because it's pretty serious. ABC News on Saturday. Yeah, more or less broke the story and all the rest of it. Increasing worldwide threat of dengue fever in the news, listeria outbreak in Denmark last week and I could just go on and on and I won't but. This other piece here. Struck me as apropos. New York Times. Friday, September 5th. Prane singer. Wrote a piece called why doctors commit suicide? And I've thought of this a little bit. I think surgeons are especially. notorious reporting suicidal. Points out that physicians are more than twice as likely to kill themselves as non physicians and female physicians. Three times more likely than their male counterparts. Some 400 doctors commit suicide every year and goes on and on. And why would that be these? These are healers, well, they're trapped industrial technological medicine now, and you might as well ask why do soldiers commit suicide? Well, they've they're part of something. It isn't very sweet. It isn't very edifying. It isn't very satisfying and your life becomes evidently meaningless when somebody takes their own life. The statement is obvious. And it well, another. Exercise thing and this even more obvious. This was in today's Wall Street Journal. Samanthi ready. Writes that the whole point is it's in the title. Exercise helps children with ADHD. And yeah, how about? Who would have guessed that and of course, as kids and others are more and more sedentary. And fixated and with the technology just sitting that has an effect's just one spin off affect. You people are kids, restless, . Can't pay attention. That's because they're not healthy. They're not having any. Movement and stuff. They less and less and. You know, but and. The whole point of This why is there so much of this and they're? At least they're pointing out. Pretty clearly the what's what's happening with that. Well, this a horrible thing. Speaking of well, this has to do with health and it has to do with violence. Just a word on this, but. You will report that came out last Thursday. Drawing on data from 190 countries, here's here's the whole punch line one in 10 girls worldwide have been forced into a sexual. Girls, children, and six in 10 kids ages 2 to 14 are regularly beaten by parents and caregivers. According to the Children's Agency of the United Nations. Then, whilst you think I've forgotten about the shootings, well last week, police arrest man suspected and killings of two men and two women. They found the bodies stacked on the ground. Let's see was another one here. Oh in Ohio. 4 dead at four different homes. Monday last Monday beaten to death. Missouri Shooter this was last Tuesday three people dead, two others critically wounded by now, one or both of those critically wounded may be dead as. Well, residential suburb of Kansas City. And this somewhat of a typical comment, right? The police have no idea why this happened. We don't see any rhyme or reason, Sergeant Thompson said. That's what makes it so tough. You got that right, and so it makes it so tough. And, well, there's some more, but also from China last Monday, also last Monday man stabbed to death three students and a teacher wounded five others before jumping to his death at a school. He forced his way into the classroom and started stabbing people with a fruit knife. Even if you don't have. Firearms. You can do it. In China. The commentary about Chinese authorities talking about a series of deadly attacks in public places, just like the one I recounted there. Including rampages and train stations. Distraught citizens setting fire to crowded buses. Little hear much about that, but anyway, now they're coming on with some high tech stuff to spot. Highly stressed individuals. At a distance. And that's the way they're going to resolve that. It's the society is fine. We're just going to need some more technology. Well, let's take a break. Let's and then we'll get on to some of your stuff and some interesting things. And maybe your calls.

Speaker 6: Meaning wintering in the night.

Speaker 3: Hello there, we had a little offer. To call but anyway. Well, let me just another couple of things here that it's noteworthy. There's been more on these giant dam projects all over the world and how massively destructive they are. One thing you can follow under, could it be more obvious? But anyway, at least it's getting clearer and a little more public. And it was a piece in New York Times yesterday called let the river run wild. About Chesapeake Bay. And how bad it's gotten? Thanks largely they say to four hydroelectric dams. And so they want to free this Susquehanna River. So yeah, they're I've just been noticing more along those lines. Anti dam stuff. And in terms of. The global destruction of the Earth's last wild phrase. We've heard about Indonesiand Brazil. Of course, the Amazon and so forth. Well, Canada, there was. I'm not going to go into particulars about the story, but the boreal forest in Canada. Some of I suppose. Is huge, and that's the worst case. So, and there are people resisting up there. I wanted to mention Leilabdel. Rahim has a two-part thing about racism. Putting it in the context of civilization. What civilization critique adds to understanding racism and why it doesn't go away? I recommend that. One more thing, moves wise will do anything. From last week's New York Times, on the second seeing discolored lawns, businesses applied DAB of green. Yeah, as if lawns aren't whacking in themselves with the drought in some places you get fined if you're watering your lawn, they can't. If they can't use. Afford to use water for greening up your lawn with water. So this about people who have spray paint business. Yeah, they just we can just still paint your lawn and then of course the dead. The brown grass will grow and then you just come up and spend more hundreds of dollars painting your lawn. I just really. How to outdo the original? Silliness of lua. Well, yeah, we've got time for a few things. We've got some juicy tech stuff, but I'm going to just whiz through some. Some good old action reports here. Early hours of August 24th, fences were turned down, cages were smashed and hundreds of mink were set free near Venice. It's Venice, Italy, not Venice, CA. Then in September 1st man, there's no end to what happens in Santiago more burning barricades tires. Wow, a real set to. They threw a rain of Molotov cocktails at the last part of this riot from the interior of the universities is on the. Border the perimeter of one of the universities there. Real action. And that range of Molotovs. Drew Drew a great hurrah, euphoric shouts of all the students and they said they apparently managed to set one of the cops on fire with the rain of gasoline. Yeah, the whole thing. They just went on for a while. This was. Last Monday. International Week of Solidarity with anarchist prisoners was a week ago and there were various banner drops, for example in Hamburg in Quito, Ecuador. They're spray painting on government buildings. They pulled down the Israeli flag at its embassy. A police cruiser was burned in Prague. So a very, and that's I'm sure that's just a little bit of it. But the international. Solidarity action. In the wee hours last Monday, the 1st, the police car was destroyed on Church St in Brighton. I wanted to. I was almost writing this down as Bristol because Bristol was. Is wonderful, but this Britain. To the east and in southern and southern England. And this posted in Turkish on Wednesday the 3rd, but quickly translated. Fortunately a wonderfully poetic communique. And I think this has to do with what it has to do with. The concretization of Istanbul. And they're building another bridge across the Bosphorus. Yeah, the. They called the Furious hookers militia. And they went at some of the machinery. And this also stuff using clear cutting and all the other urbanization things. It sounds like they did some damage, it's. I’m not getting the. This specific part here, but it was a real attack and it was widely noted, I think. Last Wednesday the 3rd in Keynsham. In England, and this Bristol, or right near Bristol. Attacks on mobile surveillance vans closer to TV vans. Three of them were incinerated. Apparently they or they. Yeah they were. Two of two of them were already aflame. They detected the authorities detected. The fires but. It was just a little bit too late an attack on the massive Keynsham police center. And they point out the communique points out. Despite increased surveillance, the police state is obviously very. Table and they point out the check. Eric has recently burned a closed circuit TV station and what they did in England there dedicated the memory of Claudia Lopez who fell to police bullets 16 years ago. A poet, dancer and fighter in Santiago. Reference to Chile again, our regards to everyone out there who's joyously. Causing their own ruptures with normality in the daily context against control and exploitation. Keep reclaiming your life in the many vital ways. Last Friday the 5th 80 plus foxes liberated by Alf in Poland. Yeah, oh, and this a. This a short general piece but. The Coupal people who live in northern Mexico. One of the Mexican states of Baja. And in Sonora, and also in Southeast Arizona, there are about 1300 people left, and what they are struggling. To defeat a battle led by women at points out that they are being told they can't fish anymore. This the code conservationist thing that really makes you scratch your head, as if these native people compared to the industrialized fishing that goes on all over the world are the problem. You know they've been doing that for centuries. For over 500 years. And along the lower Colorado. Which is so dammed and polluted already. But anyway? Yeah, let's let's crack down on these native people that sure makes a lot. Of sense. Well, just to shout out the Torch antifascist network will hold its first annual conference in Chicago this Saturday, the 13th Anti Fascist getting together. Under the this auspices for the first time. And I wanted to mention this came out, I guess Sunday. In English. A communique From what used to be its individuals tending toward the world and now. There is a new group which. Umbrella Group I guess. It's the plants ideas, it's called. Reaction wild reaction. Yeah, wild reaction Rs. And it would be this Spanish acronym and we're talking about some of the things that these small groups have done, and that now they're coalescing. And one of the things that really jumps out well, two things. One is their callous that this would make this absolutely point blank clear. They and they say it more than once. One quote is. If during an attack some citizen is wounded or killed, we won't care. We will be indifferent and indiscriminating because the mass of people don't merit our consideration. We'll meet you in touch there, I guess. And then they and they say it somewhere else to the one person that was injured. It was his carelessness. Yeah, his carelessness. Somebody,, a maintenance worker at the Polytechnic University. This back in 220 eleven. Yeah, he's still. It seems so. So what if we blew? Him up. And the other point they make. I think that the other, the only other point, really is that no, we are not slavish followers of Ted Kaczynski. I kissed him about it. Possibly that's a response to what I said what I posed there. And this rich. Well, we're in fact our position clashes with Kaczynski's. Since we do not consider ourselves revolutionary, we do not want to form anti technological movement as a quote from Ted, that encourages the quote total over the overthrow. The system. We do not see it as viable. We do not want victory., I mean wild nihilism. Pure and simple, yeah, just you're just doing it for no reason. That's that's pure nothingism And I got to sign with Ted. I definitely want to see an uprising against the whole techno cancer. And if you don't have that, nothing's going to happen. It will just deepen and debilitate people and make them stupider and so on. And obviously these Niles gestures really. You know well, and they don't claim it's going to do any good. They don't want to do any good. It's just a egoist nihilist thing. And of course not. Every egoist or nihilist agrees with them. I'm not, I'm not hinting at that. That's obviously not true. But there’s one version of it. They are definitely. Subscribing to some of that aren't they? Well, you better start knowing it's 53460645 over here. Some tech things that I thought were pretty interesting. There's a piece awhile back. It was in New York Times. And I think I referred to it in terms of Labor Day. This a clear. Yeah, some would. You know piece about how. If you're on, call. If you're attached to your cell phone 24 hours a day, your labor never ends and in fact . So Labor Day they should get a break. You know you should be able to get away from. Being called in any hour or texted and. Virginia billions this incentive, it writes. Maturity of emails should be ended not only in half hours, but in all hours and everywhere else our society is being held captive to the quick message, misspelled and grammatically incorrect, poorly thought out and frequently impulsively directed. Looks like angry drone. Yeah, she and she goes on to point out what's being lost with this with the Blizzard of emails all around the clock. And then there's the other letter, and it's subject from 1 Matthew Matthew Nimitz. Who used to be Under Secretary of State for Security Science and Technology in the Carter administration? Theory disagrees, this the age of globalism and affect. You saying get over it, you can't succeed in today's world. You've got to have 24/7 emails because it is global and you might be dealing with someone in Japand where it's 3:00 AM. Here they're on the job, there it's the business. Or is over there somewhere into. So it's difficult but necessary project for serious thinkers. Oh in saying that, Oh well, well, there are things to workout. It’s lifestyle stuff, lifestyle. That's that's a way of dismissing it. It’s more about life, the life world than just some lifestyle thing. This, has a huge impact. And increasing impact. And of course the other side of it is, well, that's this basically about business emails or a lot of this. What I just referred to is about, but. You know the piece. The thing I just referred to in passing about suicide among doctors. And how prevalent it is and the rising suicide in general for different categories of people and overall for that matter. So there is discussion which I won't go into, but what is the? What is the best treatment for people that are suicidal? You know what is? What is competent treatment? Anyway, Ravi Chandra writes to the New York Times is a recent thing that competent treatment is basically irrelevant. Isolation is the key thing. And what are we getting more and more of as we get more and more techno? And it's pretty obvious. Losing your touch. This a this a nice one. Also New York Times. This Richard Kearney. This appeared in the stone, which is a. The philosophy series of something. But we're being excarnation. I've never run across that word, but we're becoming a fleshless society, losing our touch, moving literally. Our digital life is compromised. Our essential. Feeling is, knowledge or actual. The. In the. Ostensible immediacy of, for example sexual contact. Is being mediated now digitally and referring to several things the ways that can be? The things like Tinder you, you're anonymous and then you hook up for quick sex and the number of other ways of. Of digital. Andy brings up her. The movie that the Spike Jones movie where the guy falls in love with his operating system. On the smartphone. And this with coding and It’s a fine piece and this really was at theart. Of it, I think. Certain cyber engineers now envisage implanting transmission codes in brains so that we will not have to move the finger. They come in contact with another human being to get what we want. The Touch screen replaces touch itself. The cosmos shrinks to a private monitor and fewer a disembodied self unto itself. It doesn't make you think of egoism at all, does. It I guess. Well, OK yeah, I thought that was a really a good one. This a more minor one. This weekend's New York Times Tech meet fashion so we got the smart list phones. Now It’s unclear as to whether they're actually selling, whether it's going to be. A wearable like you. Know that does that is successful. And the whole thing is, you should be styling when you've got this thing on your wrist, so you can look stylish while you're a zombie. I guess that's the point. And this something that we do have time for. This we have time for one more thing along those lines of the channels to get to another human being. The digital thing. There's a new thing called somebody you need to somebody. This an app. It's a messaging service that in this stranger is to verbally deliver messages. That's a little. Why would you want to do that? I'm not sure here, but then you can sign up on this mailing list. And then you can get somebody celebrity. I mean, that's this. This stranger, the point is it's somebody famous. And they'll read your e-mail.

Speaker 4: Oh, so they don't come up to you in person.

Speaker 7: I guess not. It's not like I get a buzz in my pocket that says like go to the person in the next room because that's creepy.

Speaker 3: That's grouping, yeah, but this more even more strange their way because you don't even get. They don't show up at your door and you say.

Speaker 4: Depends on the celebrity. I would go for it if like David. Lynch would read my text.

Speaker 3: Oh right, well they mentioned like Kareem Abdul Jabbar, I'd love to meet him. Princeville and goes and saying the odd thing from somebody. Who doesn't know? Yeah, wow and so this further is the distance, I guess because they mentioned that. You could consume consume. Use the service to break up. With one's boyfriend or girlfriend or just have somebody else do it. I mean, it's. It's different from just leaving a message, and which is bad enough I guess, but. Well, you can. You can have Mr. T like call somebody and break up with them. Right? Or yeah, they’re probably too afraid to fight over it. Yeah, weekly snippets of emails. Well, I guess you they don't. It's not,, it's not tailor made. I guess you pick the e-mail and the voice is reading some or some message some statement and then you can. Use it and I don't know it's hard to follow. But there's a little more of the water thing in the air, but probably very little, but from several people I appreciate. I appreciate the thought this was in the New Statesmand then in the New Republic. As I understand it, the. From in other words, the left is now noticing the anti tank thing to some degree because. This a a rambling article that. It seems to me it mainly shows that they know something about some of the stuff. That's going on. Dimension different dimension Dark Mountain Britain and so forth they mentioned, the Unabomber. So it's all about real realism and. The photo makes you think it's about people in the high tech industry that have become somewhat. Disaffected and is a little bit on that, but more it's about. It's a little bit contending. OK, well what are we going to do about technology? They talking about real nudism, right? But you can't have the crazy car and you can't have the ticket zinski kind, but it could be useful, though it could be good, it could be. It should be conceived of as a critical engagement with technology. Which tells you right away they there's no the slightest still thought of getting rid of it, or really tackling it. You're engaging with it, but critically, . Yeah, that’s it's a. A sleazy word that's been used in other contexts. You know you, we critically blah blah blah. In other words, you’re going along with it, right? But you're critical, so It’s a little shuffle there that. But the fact that they That they published this? I mean, I don't know, it just seems like a small. Case of the fact that they have to. I don't know they have to take him off to show that they're with it. And Oh yeah, well yeah, we're anti. Tech too, sort of maybe . That's about it. Well, I guess one here and there won't be since we have a surprise guest. We'll muddle through once again next week.

Speaker 6: I make a day when you think that you like to bring. I try to give a party. And the guy upstairs complained. I guess I'll go through life just catching. Colds and missing trains everything. Happens to me. I never miss a thing. I have the measles and mumps and when I play this My partner always changes.

09-02-2014

[audio]

Cops beat Eugene bakery worker. Global industrial cancer toll, new climate projections. Narcissism reports. Why do hundreds from West go to join ISIS fanatics? The delirious techno-fantasies of Michio Kaku. Rise of films about solitude. Action news.

08-26-2014

[audio]

Seattle and Philadelphianarchist Book Fairs last weekend. Nihilism and green anarchy. Fierce Dreams. "Sitting is the New Smoking", weather extremes, "climate swerve"? Action news, three substantial calls.

08-19-2014

[audio]

Kathan here. Ferguson and resistance. Civilization as failing pacification. Mercury up, elephants down; the terrible toll in every sphere of anti-life Machine. Action news, two calls.

08-12-2014

[audio]

Grusha from Moscow for the hour. His impressions of U.S., primitivists in Russia, anarchists and nazis. Our position + tactics in age of police power, outlook for new upheavals. Self-importance decried as well as sacrificial orientation. Two calls.

08-05-2014

[audio]

Toledo: don't drink the water! Liminal. Ebola, anti-trans creeps, "Nihilist Sect of Free Death"?? Peak Sand? Industrial disasters, action reports, three calls (two from Toledo).

07-29-2014

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Robotics vs. humanness (e.g. child sex robots, robot caregivers). "Ableism!" charge rebutted by Ian E. Smith. Horrors of the wacked week: shocking health news, Chinese river runs red, sense of dread, decline of golf! Action news. De Landand origin of language.

07-22-2014

[audio]

Enormity of loneliness, cuddle clubs. "The Tech Utopia Nobody Wants." New Bad Egg Books infoshop. "Wooden Ships" from Uncivilized Animals, critique of "Animals Dreams." Action news, child sex robots proposal, four calls.

07-15-2014

[audio]

KZ co-hosts. Health scares, uber-surveillance, Gaza, recalls, collapse, shootings. "Forget about Changing the World" - give to charity. New tech outrages, resistance news, Abyss, Michel Serres, no calls.

07-08-2014

[audio]

Michael Becker from Fresno co-hosts, reports on Earth First! Rendezvous. Action reports. Zoo madness. What do we call this zeitgeist? One call.

07-01-2014

[audio]

With Jimmy at thelm. Dane here, reports on Resistance Ecology and Eugene event. Egoism defended (caller), general news, VICE interview, Facebook turns users into "lab rats." Two new anti-internet books, two calls.

06-24-2014

[audio]

Response to "On Radical Moralism and Wildness." Over-warming news, dis-ease spreading among species, technology encroaching on humanness and human autonomy. Fine resistance items, one call (from UK).

06-17-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Dis-integrating Iraq. More on (growing?) sense of futility, ego-orientation, our sense of responsibility to persevere and overcome. Domestic drones, Chris Hedges: plagiarist scumbag! Action news. One call.

06-10-2014

[audio]

Planet pummeled and poisoned; entrapped by technology. Kinds of violence; water eclipsed. Kids turning away from "social media"? Resistance items, four v. substantial calls.

06-03-2014

[audio]

Afghanistan. "Faster! The Age of Acceleration." Culture of loneliness, death. Few are voting, "living" online, more robo-life. More obesity, recalls, apps for the stupid."Eco-terrorism" movies, workers opposing union repression. Action reports.

05-27-2014

[audio]

A bit more on Black Seed, Her. Isla Vista shooting rampage and other shootings. Recalls, sick planet news, anonymity question, Marcos changes name for the media. Action news, three calls.

05-20-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts, More discussion of Black Seed. What is rewilding? Why is Aragorn such a postmodern urban hipster? General disaster news, sterling action news. Grave new tech developments.

05-13-2014

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. Most dire climate change studies yet, culture reflects end-game ethos. Calls: Kevin on Black Seed, Leopold on hope vs. critique. May 13 Telegraph on next Unabombers. Action news items.

05-06-2014

[audio]

More on Transcendence movie (e.g. from Stephen Hawking) and Paul Kingsnorth. Industrial/pollution news, creepy techno-developments. Action reports, two calls (re: Black Seed tour; dreary, plodding leftism).

04-29-2014

[audio]

Adbusters, Sydney Anarchist Book Fair honchos really suck. Paul Kingsnorth surrenders for New York Times limelight. Artificial leaves, voices, expressions. Action news, two calls about veganism.

04-22-2014

[audio]

Dane, surprise guest. Transcendence movie (see it!), Obsidian Point (new ITS-like group in Mexico), Liminal novella (buy it!). Nihilist hope? General disaster news, action news, three calls.

04-15-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Discussion of the place of the positive, moral thinking. 'Anxiety' piece in new issue of Anarchy. Shootings spike. Resistance news, three calls.

04-08-2014

[audio]

Dialog and lack of it in our political culture. Read my 'health' piece. Sinking land, failing global health, mammoth recalls, spring shootings, industrial disasters. Action news, no calls.

04-01-2014

[audio]

Malaysian jetliner + oceans of trash; WA killer mudslide + industrial logging. Alienation and Acceleration book: modernity careens on, faster and faster. Megafauna extinctions, swordfish attacks BP, one call.

03-25-2014

[audio]

Cricket on board. Al-Jazeera on anarchism. Will the Left always predominate? Endless spills, leaks, mega-dams, pollution. Wild farming, simple solutions, new anti-social apps. Action reports, one call.

03-18-2014

[audio]

Kathan here. Language explored. Final thoughts on Portland Biennial 2014, BASTARD conference criticized. NASA predicts the end as industrialism trashes all. No more dancin, is choice of tech-addicted kids in NY. Two calls.

03-11-2014

[audio]

Cliff is here. New SAT test (technology makes you stupid). Enviro scourges; industrialism no longer able to successfully make cars, planes; tech crazinesses, including Michio Kaku's. Action news, one call.

03-04-2014

[audio]

Fort Lewis College visit last week, Portland Biennial 2014. News of the void, health/dis-ease news. Resistance reports, two calls.

02-18-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Donald Fagen: luddite! Barbie defends S.I. Swimsuit Issue. WSJ Spring Fashion lifelessness, global industrial blight. Resistance news, one call.

02-11-2014

[audio]

How to explain Keith and Jensen?? Books on Derrida, Adorno. Spills, heroin, pop culture at its zenith. 800,000-year-old footprints, e-diapers, action highlights, 3 calls.

02-04-2014

[audio]

Shootings spread to Russia, Sochi mess. Weather and water crises. Lierre Keith-at-E-law upcoming scandal. Union realities. Action news. Two calls (largely about "Her").

01-28-2014

[audio]

Read "Animal Dreams" (half of broadcast). General weekly news, resistance news. Two calls: Lierre Keith at E-Law alert; two poems.

01-21-2014

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Sandy Hook killer's call to Anarchy Radio/ mediantics in "Age of School Shootings." Message from Serbia. Action news, calls about chicken lobotomies, despair. Domestication uber alles.

---

[Music]

CARL: This hour of broadcasting is brought to you in part. By the olive juice. Where you'll find locally made clothing, costume and festival garb. Olive juice is located at 533 Blair Blvd. You can find olive juice on Myspace and Facebook. Thank you. All juice for your support and sponsorship of your campus. Radio station 88.1 FM KWVA, Eugene.

Advert: In the streets below, traffic had stopped. Pedestrians were lying on sidewalks and curled up in doorways so there was no sign of violence, no wrecks, nothing like that. It was if the people in New York had simply decided to stop whatever they were doing and pass out. Ice coated my stomach. The invasion that started to find out what happens next with Percy Jackson. Olympians by Rick learn, explore new worlds and check out more cool books at your local library and visitread.gov brought to you by the Library of Congress and the ad Council.

ZERZAN: The views expressed in this program are not necessarily the views of KWV radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Ted Baker Music: The night. It's like a lovely team. Take care. Constant moon. That can't be seen. For the. When you locked imagine. Much too close to mine…

ZERZAN: Ted Baker toward the end of his career, toward the end of his life, Catherine is here with us tonight.

KATHLINE: Again on my 7th year I think on this regular guest hood.

ZERZAN: Beautiful yeah Co host food.

KATHLINE: And happy New Year right 2014 here we are.

ZERZAN: Right? Let's have a better. Well, we're going to just jump into whattracted a bunch of mediattention last week. It's all about the Sandy Hook shooters. This just full of bitter ironies, and anyway, just to give you a little. Background on this.

On Wednesday the 8th, I think it was. I think it was, yeah, about 2 weeks. Ago there's a Blogger has a blog called The Sandy Hook Lighthouse. I would have never seen this, but the Blogger. Let me know he was about to post about to publish a story about the Sandy Hook shooter, the one who killed 20 little first graders and half a dozen teachers and his mother and himself. A year ago last month, so the story, such as it is, was that he called this show. Two years ago, two years ago, last month. In other words, a year before the carnage at Sandy Hook. And so I was talking to the other Anarchy Radio folks about what to do about this if it became a media thing. And it didn't for a whole week and I was thinking, well, the other shoe is not going to drop and we'll just forget about. It's not a story anyway and…

KATHLINE: Well, you were you were kind enough to inform me because you and I both recall the. So and yeah, and I had expressed to you. I was hoping that I'd be present when it was discussed. Neither of us were in a hurry to contribute to what . Who knows what would develop so…

ZERZAN: Right, so I didn't say anything about it last week on the show and I didn't really see what there was to say. Anyway, it struck me right away that the point of this in terms of media would be the titillation of hearing this guy's voice. It would be just the sensationalist level of. So he called the show. I mean, what's what's the story? I mean, what's what is what is very interesting about that? We don't screen the calls. Who knows who else he might have called in terms of truck shows or whatever?

KATHLINE: And yeah, and I mean, I would say my response was very much alarmed that any association of anarchists and baby killers would, is like distrust of mediand great concern about what . There's no screening of the calls and. What's going on?

ZERZAN: And of course, the possibility that. If some media outlets or some editorial decision. It's not inconceivable that they would have tried to use this, as, oh anarchists are down with this sort of massacre. Of course, well it didn't happen. Let me just point that out right away. But one of the ironies it struck me is that I have I. I think this valid to say no one has talked about this phenomenon as much as I have. Anguished over it. Pleaded and demanded that the denial stop and we start having the conversation in society about what is this growing. Incredible phenomenon saying about about civilization at this point about mass society. About this society in particular. Of course it never happens, it just so this was going to be possibly a case in point, and I mean it could have gone any which way. Anyway, last week last Wednesday I remember this quite specifically late afternoon. Last Wednesday the 15th. The shoe did drop and it was just an avalanche until late afternoon the next day, as it was almost exactly 24 hours. I think everybody from Good Morning America to CNN USA TODAY all the local TV stations and one Portland TV. Et cetera. It's just and I made the I was trying to keep in touch with you guys, but you weren't right. They're available anyway. But I decided that speaking for myself, I would. I would try to tackle it and make the effort there in this with this context to bring it up. And one of the earlier ones that happened this. This not exactly unpredictable. Here I was bursting right away with look. I don't. I'm not interested in all these questions. Well, how did that feel? What was his voice like? What did it? You know that sort of thing? How about the larger glaring question? And so I would try to go right into that. And the first one of these first ones was. Good morning. America, was it just a big network? Coffee clutch, sort of nothing, nothing. This show in the morning. Lot of people wake up to it I guess. So I. I tried to get right into that right away and he said we're going to lose this tomorrow morning. And then when I started into my wrap, there's this pause and it goes. I don't think we're going to use this tomorrow morning, so. Instant lesson as if I was surprised by that. No, we don't want to hear that. We just want to hear some triviabout. Will the shock of it over there's something in his voice or. Such a normal guy. Yeah, whatever I mean with the and still avoid the enveloping thing that we're seeing. And then anyway, it went on that way and. You know I have to. Say, and no one can. No one can make this out to that anybody. Of us has any sympathy with this almost incredible event that. And these? The killings that morning was that the call was actually very articulate in terms of anti civilization anti domestication thing. And it was and how. How to make sense of it? I don't know. I mean don't ask me, I just can't even. You know, but I’m stunned by this whole thing and the media thing is just the slightest part of it.

KATHLINE: You know my comment would be really, I thought I was grateful. It seemed to be only second rate news media. The talk shows and. New York Daily News, which was the one that broke the story, is a sensationalist rag, pandering to the lowest base. Of ideas period. I was greatly concerned that you would be quoted. You would be cut and pasted in unpleasant ways and I was actually pleasantly surprised to see an AP wire where actual quotes. Address the phenomena of mass shootings rather than specific episode. You know specific episode and dwelling on. Irrelevant, what's the word spurious considerations, but on the whole I was. I took it as a good sign actually, that more widespread news sources just had no interest. I felt there was certain. A certain amount of just. Refusing to go. There, which is, where the media wanted to go with this, which I felt maybe that's not a good phrasing, but I'd . I certainly was just very, very alarmed about association with horrific acts. As such, and it seemed to be that there was the reception was so cold that it didn't ignite, that it didn't go any. Anywhere and maybe that's a overly positive outlook, but I was highly skeptical that any media would be promoting anti sieve message or any critique of this. The mass shootings that are taking place.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah, and I don't want to be too positive either, but I felt like there was a. Not only did they not try to somehow demonize US anarchists with it, but there was a little bit of, as you say, that AP piece. And got hooked up with CNN with Don Lemon who's. Through a live hookup here at the university actually and I got right into the. The more fundamental questions. I thought and. In lemon off. Off air right afterwards said that was really good, and then maybe he says that to everyone and he was very brief. I didn't, they didn't give me much time, but that's all I talked about. Is is what is it telling us and how far gone is? Are we in mass society at this point and stuff like that? And they didn't? They might have they. Did cut it off, but I don't know if they cut it off. In the in the in the political vein. As much as just, they didn't have much time planned for it anyway. And anyway, Lemon thought it was worth saying. He said to me anyway, I don't know. Maybe we'll it's conceivable that we're getting a little closer to some of this stuff. Just cracking, cracking out, like how much. These these things have to just. Go on and on and on and know. One makes any sense of it even remotely goes there.

KATHLINE: Well, yeah, and I think also just some comment on mediand how how are people getting their information or how has that changed to a certain extent. And I know at the time of Obamas big elect. And there was, Jon Stewart was given credit. As this where the news. This where the upcoming generations are getting their information what's going on now the last decade easily. You know I'm not hearing that and I don't see that's the case, but I do feel the news sources that. The 6070 generation, the so-called baby boomers, are not listened to that much, and I don't think that is the source. You know that is the source of news. That, and to even call it source of news, is a little a little bit out there. Because It’s an ideological, way of what you need to be thinking about. And I think that was the one thing I did feel good about. Was that nothing ignited from this sensationalist approach to. Yeah, just seem to fall flat. Like you said it, it was a very short window, a little flurry, CNN. It featured it. I actually visited a friend in Olympiand she had heard it and was, had heard CNN saying something and any number of my female friends and. When they hear, they just turn off, they do. Not want to hear. The specifics of any of these of the specific gory details of horrific crimes of. Horrific of the terrorism of affluent societies and, and that's what I like to, I'd to launch off on their discussion here. Into into some. For their probing of what what is the real terrorism and? And yeah so anyway.

ZERZAN: Yeah, I think so. And if it's always to be kept out or treated as a a fringe thing, how how is that eternally possible? In other words, you see these stories all the time in age of school shootings locked down as new duck and cover that was. The New York Times piece at the end of last week not about this particular story, but just the reality.

KATHLINE: No, no very true and I will say I was talking to my granddaughter first grade and she just spin.

ZERZAN: That's the important thing.

KATHLINE: Yes, is not fire drills. It's not duck and cover. It's locked down and I'm also. So why are they locking the doors? You know what, what? Why do you have to be there? You know you probe the what's the kids idea of what's going on and it's like. Well then there could be a bad guy. Could be a bad guy out there.

ZERZAN: The age of school shooting and of course, the context. Yeah, a mand two kids dead at a Fort Hood, TX residence on Base Fort Hood this afternoon they weren't disclosing much. Except they were military dependents and one dead at Purdue University this morning, and the family slaughters in this past week. I mean, it's not just schools as we all know. 5413460645 if you want to come in on this or anything else.

KATHLINE: And let me just go pulling my New York Times from the Sunday edition terrorism and in an editorial in depth editorial. In the opinion pages from the Kenyan about terrorism and tying tying it to poverty, and poverty and terrorism and we see. And we live with this all the time. Islamic terrorism, fundamentalist terrorism and all that, but the mass shootings. The Fort Hood is that referred to as terrorism. But ask the first graders. Ask the kids . Lockdowns, that's the terrorism mall shootings and school shootings are the terrorism of civilized society, and that's the real danger that terrifies people. For it's the fear nowadays.

ZERZAN: And of course, it's all. It seems to be largely lumped under random. The things that are not assigned anything, which is what we're talking about, which is the phenomenon random. As if reality is just random, society is just random, don't don't you just that's a move to just put it in some other otherness that can't be explained.

KATHLINE: Random, random, and that's also denial.

ZERZAN: So it means like what accidental? It just keeps happening and it happens more and more just by random. That's not true. I mean it, it's it. Can't be true. There’s got to be. There's got to be an explanation, and the and the explanation lies in what society is.

KATHLINE: Regularity, regularity, regularity, and location right there. Walls and schools. Why why these locations? Why schools, what societies turn on their own peers on their young? You know what? Show me any non civilized pre civilized . Sure throw the virgins in the volcano. Hey they volunteered. For it, . I mean, not to be not to be loose and facetious with it, but it's just like this whole distortion and shift of. What is the terrorism? What is the real fear in it individuals lives in this society? And sure poverty, material deprivation is the peace homelessness. You know the economics. But in terms of real terror? If your kid goes to school.

ZERZAN: Well, just some quick news here. Perhaps at the end of the week last Friday, Obama gave a speech about mass surveillance and the only thing that Speaking of reality or linked to reality, he referred to a world that is remaking itself at a dizzying speed. Getting to the technological part. And of course, he gave this slippery slimy. Address, which means that they're not going to be any checks on it, and on a deeper level there aren't any checks on technology. I mean, that’s the most fundamental thing, and it and last week's National Security Agency announced that their software can penetrate any computer, even those not connected with the Internet. I mean, it's just forget about it. It's got to wake up to the political reality of technology, . Well, we've talked about that a little more and at the same time, this a story today from Mcclatchy Washington Bureau trains and spilled more oil in 2013 than in the previous four decades. So the frenzy to keep this machine running, it's just well. And the. Enbridge Energy yesterday reported that their Alberta Clipper tar Sands pipeline is being shut down because of all the leaks they've spilled over. 5000 gallons of oil. And this just the latest one. Well, and I've got a list of them. I won't. I won't bore you with the with. We've talked about them from time to time as they've come up. Meanwhile, California, most of it is the driest conditions on record. Today, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced 2013 the 4th largest on record and Mississippi River levels are dropping critically. On and on with all that Australian water quality. Is dropping precipitously due to the drought mainly? All of the all of this picture, and this this going to be the feature of the week. Little clip of the week. Sent by two or three friends of this station. Did you see this one? What they're doing at Tiananmen Square in Beijing?

KATHLINE: No, no I didn't.

ZERZAN: Well, they've now they have these big commercial TV screens, enormous screens and they broadcast the sunrise and the sunset because you can't see the sunrise or the sunset. You can just watch it on the screen and as a friend said, Can you imagine a more dystopic image and that's the other side of the coin. Besides what's happening in society, what's happening to the physical world? Of course it's that just was so, and I saw a photo of it too. You could, it looked like you. You could hardly see across the street, so. I guess you got to get close to the screen for that matter to even see it on TV incredible.

KATHLINE: As we talk here in air, thick fog that is new to the areand never seems to leave like what is that?

ZERZAN: Oh, but there is. And here's maybe this a runner up story China watch story from the South China Morning Post. We can somebody named you Shou Kai has come up with this solution. These the answer to all of this horrible air pollution, namely spraying water from skyscrapers and towers. That would get the nitric acid and the sulfur dioxide and all the rest of it out of the air. But wouldn't that create acid rain obviously? And then he says, oh, and by the way, you skipped over that one. And the problem of that they're running out of water to fuel industry. I mean, industry is that. 99% of water is used industrial. He says, let me just collect. You can collect the water and reuse it. Really, the water that's acidified by this horrific. It's unbelievable that somebody could say that, and they would print it as something to be.

KATHLINE: Something that will serve us right?

ZERZAN: It's no breaking, yeah, if it's even common sense blows it out of the water in 2 seconds. You know, they collect it and reuse it. Oh yeah, of course, why didn't they think of this before? Probably make things worse.

KATHLINE: Well yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have to have to throw in about sources of water in Charleston and the 300,000 without any because of the same what you referred to earlier. The oil and coal spills and devastation of the groundwater. And we're not even talking fracking.

ZERZAN: No, it's picking up speed in Fukushima. Yesterday, highly radioactive water. Building up, they've got a new leak at one of the crippled reactors. No surprise. Yeah, when you think of the logic of the whole thing, the impetus, the gathering speed and the question of technology. What is it right on it? It depends on the whole industrial base. And the madness that has to keep that not only rolling, but increasing itself, that and even. They even claim that it's got to. We've got to meet the challenge. We've got to have more energy. That's what quote energy means. All of these disasters. And then this interesting from Sochi as we get closer to the Winter Olympics at 2014 Olympic Games in Sochi and in the South of Russia. Well, lots of stories about the, the squalor, the environmental waste. And now the. The Olympic construction waste all these people. These poor people in the area. Homes are sinking into the Earth because of it. It’s a disaster and somebody named. I've never heard of this guy. Frankly, you have Guinea. Vitis petisco is an environmental activist and critic of the whole. When a games development, which is usually it's disaster of one kind or another, the development itself again three years in prison. Oh, no gaze and put the gaze in prison. This guy has got three years for opening his yap about it. And of course the real terrorists will be there. I mean some of the real terrorists will be there too.

KATHLINE: Right, the ones we will name and look at right acknowledge to be terror and yeah.

ZERZAN: Right the ones the only ones. We quote insider. Well, maybe we should take the music break now. Maybe we'll get some calls.

[Motorhead Music]

ZERZAN: Radiohead of Chris stuck here 10,000 years. They're anti civ band.

CARL: There's Motorhead.

ZERZAN: Motorhead, right, right. How did I get that wrong? Oh well. Motorhead.

OK, some Action News we just we don't have a ton of it, but some pretty good stuff. And again, some of this only recently disclosed and we hours of January 5th. Door of the Church of. San Marino and Sevilla, Spain was attacked with Molotovs and anarchist graffiti. For the churches, collaboration with state power. In terms of largely in terms of imprisoning anarchists, I think, and the statement part of the statement says not one step back if you touch one of us, you touch all of us. Pretty good and I preferred to Burgos Spain last week which is a little north of Seville. And the riots that began on the 10th in January 10th. About the gentrification of the working class neighborhood gamonal in Burgos and there were riots for four consecutive nights and it and they went on too. I don't know where it's at right now, but on the 16th. Protests turned into riots in Barcelonand Zaragoza in Barcelona. Masked protesters. Smashed over a dozen banks luxury hotel, Starbucks, Burger Kings and other businesses. Oh, I hope they trust that Burger King on the on, the Ramblas, there's one unsightly. All the junk is it's just ugly and bright and all the dumb tourists hang out there. It's the only one on the whole Rambla Blvd thing. And maybe they closed it up for good. I hope setting and setting fire to a number of them. Pelting police with trash bottles and unprecedentedly potent fireworks that set the police jumping in a city where riot police don't flinch when quarter sticks of dynamite go off at their feet. They're used to some action from anarchists. They're not protesters, they're. Last Friday, the 17th police cars at a pig substation in Bloomington, IN were attacked with rocks in solidarity with anarchist prisoners in Mexico and striking prisoners in Westville. Indiana it's a prison there. Up in what's called British Columbia luit. Members of First Nation angula to set up a blockade near the Fraser River. This the Cayuse Creek that I think empties into the Fraser River. They're they are stopping. There's they're stopping development which is destroying fish habitat, and they're only holding the contractors. Going to the work site so Hwy 99 is not closed to everybody. And Saturday the 18th in Durham, NC. This a long running thing too. Stems back to November. Jesus Huerta was. Thrown in with police cruiser and shot. They claimed that he shot himself with a concealed weapon. There have been several. Several forays several attacks on police substations. In fact, the third, the third one of these was this past Saturday where neighborhood people broke Windows spray painted police cars. So that's that, continues over the. Over that cover up over that murder Brazil. This a. This a. There's been stories in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times about. Thousands of kids. Going on raucous excursions through these new shopping malls, this Sao Paulo specifically. Brazil's class struggle is going to the mall is the way the right wing Wall Street Journal put it? About the deep divide between the rich and the poor, it's some say this just consumerism, but it has much more of a. Subversive aspect to these parties that they don't seem to be able to control. And of course, what's happening in Kiev in Ukraine? Last night and the night before Sunday and Monday, really amping up really accelerated. One of the features. The this the anti government thing and the stakes of which are not horribly interesting yet, but it's getting there. In the past two months they built a. A 10 foot tall catapult. Piled with bags of cobblestones, this could go. And they've been throwing fire bombs, beer bottles and gasoline. The cops. This could throw cobblestones 200 yards downrange onto the cops. This really becoming an all out thing. It's hard to. It could be contained in totally reformist grounds, but I think we've gotten to the place where it's way past that. We'll see today. Alf partisans broke out some big front windows at a McDonald's in Tel Aviv. Yeah and OK. Dark Knights #39 is now out news from anarchist prisoners and direct Action News and 325 that's the issue. #11 is coming out soon and one last thing the Red Coronado Tour has been firmed up. Thursday the 30th in Denver, Friday, the 31st in Seattle, February the 1st in Portland. Yes, you can. You can find these. The details also Sunday here in Eugene Sunday, February 2nd on campus at the McKenzie. The McKenzie Building Room 221. Nice to see Rod back at it.

Somebody there?

CARL: Peter.

PETER: Hey John, how you doing?

ZERZAN: OK.

PETER: Good evening.

ZERZAN: We're good, what's up?

PETER: Yeah, that's nice to hear. First of all, I'd just like to just. I just like to comment on the news articles trying to smear you. I think that's a name, so I hope you endured that. Quite well, but yeah.

ZERZAN: I wasn't really aware that there were so. These are anonymous blogs at Anarchist News maybe. Huh, where it's not interesting, really, but I'm guessing anonymous blogs and anarchist news. These would be the naysayers.

PETER: Sort of, yeah. I guess.

ZERZAN: OK.

PETER: Well, yeah, I just wanted to talk about the article I found interesting few days ago. It’s about a proposal and there are people lobbying for this. Apparently that the solution to animal cruelty specifically in the poultry department is to remove the. Brains of chickens.

ZERZAN: Oh no.

JUSTIN: Well, not.

PETER: Their entire brain, but their frontal lobe and whatever. Other sections make enable them to feel pain and I just I just found that completely inane. Like completely, completely laughable, because especially since a lot of no crusading animal rights. Activists like Peter singer. Oh God Peter Singer, the utilitarians say that the main reason why animal cruelty should end is because animals can feel pain and then they're like, oh, this a great idea. Just remove, remove their brain so they can't feel pain and pain and don't do anything about the domestication part like.

ZERZAN: Finding the bottom is the chickens.

PETER: Yeah so.

ZERZAN: Pretty preposterous.

PETER: Yeah, and it has a good chance of being realized because it's economically efficient to some degree.

ZERZAN: Domestication marches forward.

KATHLINE: I mean, yeah, this cancelled here. How is that much different than having the pregnant woman the dead brain dead woman kept as the incubator alive in Texas? For a 12 week old fetus, I think chicken, the bottom, maybe, maybe. Maybe that we can joke about that, but let's get down to reality. And what's happening here and now? Right now the partially out of what constitutes life and what's valuable, and what we reproduce. What we put resources into this quite alarming. You know, so sure. Cheap chicken lobotomy is on the list, but let's get our lists straight.

PETER: That's that's also I wasn't aware of that's pretty important as well. OK, thanks for your time John and. I just like to my friend Kaz is high so.

ZERZAN: OK.

PETER: All right, thank you.

ZERZAN: Take care.

PETER: You too bye.

KATHLINE: So well, I brought. I brought a number, just commentary on the mood of the New Year. You know some excerpts on things. Do you think we have time for that? There there was an art show by American Academy in Rome, some exhibits and they titled one the concrete ghost. They based it on some text. And I thought the concept the concept in some of the writing on this show was pretty pertinent to how I felt coming into the year. 2014 The text that they used to come up with the idea of the concrete ghost is a diffuse. Sensation of suspension permeating the present moment the. Embodied Ghost is the precise opposite of a vanishing body. It's a ghost possessed of a body, senses sensuality in a brain that comprehends. Anyway, just compared to the technological society and the screen, the virtual reality, the removal, the prosthetic bodies that are being created, the left coloring is lobotomized chicken thing. That there is, I just thought that was. That's a good concept. And the idea of suspension permeating the present moment. I think we you had a letter from a friend in Serbia who described a similar thing, and I'd like to quote from his letter, because I thought it was a nice way to start the January. My January appearance. And our friend says it was a pretty. Tough year for. All of us, but everything continues in many ways. The present situation is rather strange. There is some sort of quieting in terms of discussion and questioning, at least among civilized anarchists. But I think something is different than five or ten years ago. In October I was in Zurich to give a lecture about my publishing experience and my view of anarchy. And there I could see that once again. Then if ten years ago one had to spit the blood to explain what's wrong about technology, mass society, or with the very concept of society today, we could show that in a more precise way, but also with more help of others. I was confronted with the usual. Typical questions by some leftists, but after some initial remarks I was accompanied with the whole Greek chorus supporting my theses and.

ZERZAN: Ohh boy, that was worth reading so.

KATHLINE: Alright, I think we have a call here.

Music: Yeah, we have a Justin.

KATHLINE: Hello hello Justin.

JUSTIN: Hello hi John. So I've been,, listening to your show., for quite some time now and reading some of your books. And I was just wondering how you guys deal with the the spare that comes with. All the forms received civilization in today. So yes, I had two questions. That was the first one.

KATHLINE: How we how a person deals with the despair of today?

JUSTIN: Yeah, like how you guys deal with all the things you talk about on your show. And I mean it just. It's really sad and especially for someone here. Yeah, how do you guys deal with the person I because.

KATHLINE: Yeah, I I guess I stepped back a bit and because I would say not that long ago, I think John read his essay on why Hope and so I don't want to negate that. Actually I feel a certain amount of hopefulness in. In participating in this show in the future I, I think the situation we're in terms of the planet in terms of the environment, I could say, yeah, the technology marching forward, that despair might. Is an adjective that relates to that, but at the same time I think there is resistance. I think there is definitely more awareness by individuals. Maybe the last quote from my letter from my Serbian friend. You know is more about that. Hope that in small political circles there's something there may be a lot of trolling going on, a lot of irrelevant comments, but I would say in. The affluent society as a whole. I'm looking here at this National Geographic with a picture of big title defenders of the Amazon taking on the modern world and winning and the article itself is like, . It's the God, its strengths and its weaknesses, but whether it's National Geographic or it's the movie theater and the idea of her, which is a light hearted critique of. Human relations being operating systems, but I would say don't. I would encourage people. Don't be despondent and don't take the spare from their show. I would, I would say hope is the watch word.

ZERZAN: I want to 2nd that, there is a, we see a level of energy of resistance and you don't really see that. I mean, there are times when you don't have that. And the other. Thing to me, why I don't despair is that. The prevailing system. The When it's still raining is so threadbare it just doesn't have any answers. It's completely, it's just blurry in every way. There's no I, I just can't see how I can't see the strength, ideologically or otherwise, of the system which is failing so incredibly enormously. You know that’s. To me, that's an upside. It's not like it's sailing along. Working just fine, there’s. There's nobody that believes that so there you have something to start. Worth right there, it seems to me that's very vital.

KATHLINE: Justin, let me just throw in one more thing to just be a little concrete. Also, because I would, I would say the whole idea well then again, revolution in everyday life or attention to the everyday life, the present moment. So I think that also to me. Gives hope I have friends, I have grandchildren. Their daily life finds some.

ZERZAN: What about you, Justin? What are you mostly grabbed by the. By the negative thing we've confronted with or.

JUSTIN: I am yeah. I tend to. I tend to just be I don't know. I mean your work is very misanthropic in a way, and I mean I try to make the changes in my personal life and I'm like right at that point in my life where I'm. You know trying to live more sustainably and that whole thing, but I don't see any of my peers making the transitions that we need to be making. We want us to arrive in this, planning the. Long term.

ZERZAN: Where you could also consider whether your personal consumption is much to do with it. That's pretty good. crudely, maybe, but that could. That would lead me into despair if I thought my recycling was going to change the world or something. That's that's really not what it's about. I don't think.

JUSTIN: I mean, but even myself I feel so domesticated and not enticed by the idea of civilization but of.

ZERZAN: It is unfortunately.

JUSTIN: Of just growing up within it, so I. Mean I use. A computer every day and I use. I mean all the appliances and I mean everything, and so it's I mean there is that contradiction of what you talk about and how you live, because obviously we're not reliable there. Any like anything like that ?

ZERZAN: Well, that's true, but it's not our choice. It's not exactly freely chosen to just. I'm on the computer a lot too. And I despise the whole the whole setup, from top to bottom and what choice do you have it, ? I don't think it helps to be guilt tripping ourselves about that. Well, thanks very much for calling.

JUSTIN: Yeah, thank you.

KATHLINE: Alright, trying to let sometimes it's hard to keep a track flow going with phone calls, though I really really do appreciate the callers.

ZERZAN: Yeah, it's great. Well, there was one thing I was. That was don't read this all the time, but in the current issue of The New Yorker, the January 20th issue, the big long story called Death Dust, which is about valley fever. And not just the Central Valley of California, but that's that was that's the focus of San Joaquin Valley. I know someone who died of it, and it's a big long thing about where that's at and how. How many fatalities there are. This has been around for quite a while, and it's. It's not doesn't get a lot of publicity. The Valley Fever minutes is the subtitle. And it goes in depth in this to quite a large degree, and one of the things. And maybe it sounds like this. Broadcast project is strictly about domestication and nothing else has any bearing on anything, which is certainly not true. But anyway, you have to read this very carefully to notice something that's quite obvious until they started scalping the San Joaquin Valley. And now it's just dust. You know, that's because they just keep plowing the whole thing. There are no birds. You know you can go 300 miles and not see a single bird or hear a bird. I mean, that's what happens with that level of industrial agriculture and they talk. About hydro mulch. Soil binders that they’re getting close to because Valley fever. For those of you haven't heard of it. It’s some a spore that gets into the air when you disturb the soil. In other words, in this massive powling thing going on and now and they talk about the solar. There's a huge solar project there. 3.7 million solar panels. I think it's near. Well, it doesn't matter where it's here, but it's in the valley. And these solar workers are now. Coming down with this and it certainly can be fatal and they, but the backdrop the whole that it says the disk problems go back for decades. Well, they certainly do. What is it that goes back to decades? It's an unfortunate fact of life. In other words, you just accept the very context that creates this. I mean, I don't. I really don't think that the that the first people that were there were. We're swallowing dust. I mean, they weren't doing that, they weren't just, upsetting the whole thing that Dust Bowl comes to mind you. What isn't connected there with these with these mega problems? I mean . It’s that simple. But they sort of mystified and get lost in the details, although they as they said, they come close. To it in this piece.

KATHLINE: Well before we close out, I do want to announce that in Portland, we're going to start off the reading group before this month is over. So next Saturday, January 25th at 2:00 PM, we're going to start Reading Madness and. Civilization by. Pro and discussion see where we go with that. So anybody who wants start your new year out right show up at the red and Black Cafe, 2:00 o'clock Saturday.

ZERZAN: That's a great note to end up with Katherine. Thanks, yeah, very good. I hope that relief flies. Well, I think it'll just be calling me next week. I was thinking of maybe reading the animal dreams essay. Last thing I've finished up and. Maybe a two-part reading or something? But maybe much more exciting things will happen than that so. Maybe I won't.

KATHLINE: Well, I think that might be pretty cool. Animal dreams.

ZERZAN: And right here with some Austin Lounge Lizards.

Austin Lounge Lizards Music: Which I believe you. Said you can't afford to grow no more. You say you. Can't afford bread no. More well, this ain't no charity store. Say your kids are hungry too. I got good news. For you, you can eat that food. You really ought to try it.

You can think to see it. You can deep fry it, flip it all over, cook it anyway. Eat a lot. Three times a day. Let comes in a bag or a cake. Perfect game for working man. If you're down on your luck just now, it'll get through the day. But if you eat it in the afternoon. You might feel like howling at the moon. Buddy, you're complaining too soon. This all I got to say. You can eat. No, you really ought to trying. You can fix it. You can deep. Fry it, flip it on. You're getting away in a long room. Three times a day.

That is. Find yourself a vacant lot, lay in the garbage on the little spot. Ask the neighbors you can open up a can. Make patties like swell folks too. Have yourself little BBQ. Let the fun begin. We are trying, you can. You see, you can be fired. Three times a day.

You really ought to try it. You can bring a seed you can deep fry it.

It's its own gravy.

It's gone.

01-14-2014

[audio]

Earliest cities destroy environment (Jan. Smithsonian). Gillis' "Post-Primitivist Theses" and Badiou's "Philosophy for Militants" - equally nauseating. Mass sur- veillance, mass insomnia, mass contamination. Sterling acts of resistance, three calls.

01-07-2014

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. "Health care" reality, weather now dangerous, water running out. "Human nature?" How can we diverge from this catastrophic course? Action news. More on tech developments, two calls.

2013

12-31-2013

[audio]

What is a hospital? Nietzsche, Agamben, insurrectos. "Baka Pygmies Caught in the Maze of Modernity." News of the week, resistance news, techno news. Two calls.

12-24-2013

[audio]

More on the movie "Her"; Sochi Games jinx; food production and terrorism; erased memories; shoplifting, depression up with Holiday Season. Hunter-gatherer ethos of humility. Action items, two calls.

12-17-2013

[audio]

Ann from Portland co-hosts. Drones, robots, mass surveillance, Fukushima cancers, no more bananas? Reactive Foraging and traditional knowledge. Action news, two calls.

12-10-2013

[audio]

400,000-year-old humans. Mandela, spying gone wild, whales dying. Action news. Signs of disaffection with techno-life. Three calls.

12-03-2013

[audio]

Thanksgiving--indigenous say no thanks. Failures of modernity. China watch, waning of trust. Action news, four calls.

11-26-2013

[audio]

A Fire at the Mountain event in Flagstaff: momentous. Pope is anti-tech. Toys 'R' Us says nature is boring. Spying, droning, polluting. Action news, two calls.

11-19-2013

[audio]

Kathand Ann host. MEND movement for emancipation of Niger Delta. Prisons, Queen Nanny, Igbo Women’s War, one call (on hope), on-line surveillance.

11-12-2013

[audio]

Mega-typhoon Haiyan: just the beginning. World round-up: Chinall-out, walking bad for environment (!), dolphins dying. Action news, one (crank) call. A Fire at the Mountain: anti-colonial and anarchy event in Flagstaff.

11-05-2013

[audio]

"How Forests Think." Global spying, global technology vs. "Deserting the Digital Utopia." Global violence, e.g. ever-increasing shooting sprees in U.S. Action news, one call.

10-29-2013

[audio]

Mr. Cliff on hand. Successful LaylabdelRahim talk in Portland. Nostalgia. Ritual/myth needs (?). Report from Australia. Action news, four calls.

10-22-2013

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. One more school shooting. Industrial/energy toll everywhere, more erratic weather, globalized contamination, vast Pacific dead zone: civilization triumphant. Japanese trade intimacy for technology. Resistance reports, two calls.

10-15-2013

[audio]

Privacy, technology, Dave Eggers’ “The Circleâ€\x9D Creeping awareness of civilization as the problem. Global health worsening. Action news, two calls.

10-08-2013

[audio]

Jonathan Crary, Howard Stirner. Vehicular carnage, violence (DC and everywhere), wilder weather. Ups and downs of techno-world, opposition. Action items, three calls.

10-01-2013

[audio]

Domestication wars. Climate, weather, shootings, eco-disasters, urban plight globally. Resistance news. Meaning of the all-enveloping techno onslaught. Three calls.

09-24-2013

[audio]

Kathan on tap. Crimethinc. podcast #10. Shootings expose empty pieties. Landslides, Pacific acidification. American cities in decline. Action news, four calls.

09-17-2013

[audio]

Latest shootings: "security"? NSA, Syria, worst China excesses, American worker vs. medieval peasant (who works MUCH more?). South Korea offers permanent smile, etc. Lots of Action News, including major anarchist arsons in 3 countries. Three calls.

08-27-2013

[audio]

Cliff here. General resource crisis behind Egypt’s fissures, "Why Hope?" Techno-madness (e.g. sex robot Roxxy), failures of everyday mass world. Action news. Three calls (one from Australia).

08-20-2013

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. More on Ziggy Zeitgeist's "Disquiet"—or wired in the Brave New World. Shootings, suicides, Fukushima, extinctions. Action news, three calls.

08-13-2013

[audio]

Anti-measurement, society is now a Nothing Zone: "The Disquiet of Ziggy Zeitgeist" by Henry Allen: Reality itself is dwindling. News, action news. Nancy Richardson’s "Time Hog." Four calls.

08-06-2013

[audio]

A word on egoism, rest of "Numb and Number" reading. Extinctions, viruses, contaminations, shootings, fracking goes off-shore. Sports scandals, stem cell burger. Action news.

07-30-2013

[audio]

More on Monbiot, origins of war. Read part of "Numb and Number." Workout pill, smartphones read emotions better than humans. "Where are the canoe people?" Lots of actions. One call: why you hate egoism?

07-16-2013

[audio]

Kathan on show. Brazilianti-civ "Horde" steps up! Global survey of industrial toll. George Monbiot cops out, Chris Hedges: absurd liberal. Techno stupefaction, action news. One call: DGR alert. Please note: John will not be doing the show next week (July 23)

07-09-2013

[audio]

Signs of collapse mount on a daily basis. Turkish "anarchists" interviewed, Chomsky sees the light (?). Walter Bond on technology. Resistance shorts. Calls from North Carolina, Australia.

07-02-2013

[audio]

Even more spying, severe heat, fires. UK anarchist journals fail re: originality, technology. Digital dementia, Eco-poetry, global action news. Call from China.

06-25-2013

[audio]

Kathan here. No secrets safe for government or individuals. News, e.g. increasingly crazy weather, fires, urbanization. Last Train from Zona Verde, The East. Action news. One call.

06-18-2013

[audio]

Cliff here. End of privacy, environment, non-urban world, normaal weather, etc. Viva Turks and Brazilians rising up. Jared Diamond dissected. Three calls (one from China).

06-11-2013

[audio]

Taksim Square battle. Avalanche of government spying as technology marches on. Some general news, one call, plus Fifth Estate editor Peter Werbe on phone for last half hour.

06-04-2013

[audio]

Turkey rocks out! Report from Resistance Ecology Conference in Portland. Soylent, MOOC, burger-holders, drugs not working! Resistance news, two calls.

05-28-2013

[audio]

Language discussion: how best to employ. Food's value warning, Martin Amis, "The East", outlandish ads. End of privacy. Action news

05-14-2013

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. DGR self-destructs. Oklahoma super-tornado, other weather/climate crises globa lly. Suicides, loneliness theme, anthropology news. Action reports. One on-air call.

05-14-2013

[audio]

Dalai Lama here. Massive science and tech mean massive problems, not solutions. Deep Green disgrace in Portland. Guest poet, action news, two calls.

05-07-2013

[audio]

Wylden and Sumac on the show. May Day action = post-Left? Suicides increase, drugs fail. New tech madness. Life off the grid discussion. Four calls.

04-30-2013

[audio]

More heat on Pacific Northwest anarchists, Layla’s anti-civ economics. News (disasters) round-up, high tech survey, action news. Many calls!

04-23-2013

[audio]

Olympianarchist Convergence. (Another) week of nihilistic violence--its varieties. China, water crises, rape epidemics. What is the anarchist alternative? Action news, new books, upcoming events. A record-tying 7 calls!

04-16-2013

[audio]

Kathan on show. Boston Marathon bombing--and everyday shootings, terrorism. Robot bees, patented genes. 'Fragile' planet--why? Action news, five calls.

04-09-2013

[audio]

Cliff! Serbiand Houston: “meaninglessâ€\x9D violence erupts today. Human nature—or civilization? Action reports, Green Panther Party (?). Human No More: anthropology in cyberspace. Two calls.

04-02-2013

[audio]

Brazil anarchist conference. No more bees? More on China, Lake Erie. Action news, app of the week. Three calls.

04-02-2013

[audio]

Brazil anarchist conference. No more bees? More on China, Lake Erie. Action news, app of the week. Three calls.

03-26-2013

[audio]

Jimmy the kid—with daughters Saleh and Nico—discuss communication (clarity, real connection, etc.).

03-19-2013

[audio]

Kathan returns. Species extinctions, no pope extinction. Drones everywhere, Iraq 10 years later, technology driving us faster. Civilization and its growing, roaring madness. Resistance news.

03-12-2013

[audio]

News roundup: scarier and scarier. One (Midwest) call, about anarchist dialog. Action news from various countries. Ever more bizarre techno choices, how technology and capital feed each other.

03-05-2013

[audio]

Cricket returns! Global news: eco-destruction, police state direction, etc. Discussion of Barcelonand ITS communiques, including moral dimensions, choices. Action news roundup, three superb calls.

Speaker 2: And housewares don't forget to stop by brewing for home and garden projects. Next step. Recycling for phone and computer needs and Mecca for craft and school supplies reuse supports the local economy and saves you money to cast your vote for a healthy future and shop at Lane County's many nonprofit reuse stores. This message brought to you by Lane County Waste management. And Eugene area radio stations.

Speaker 1: Energy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of KWB, a Eugene, or anyone else.

UNKNOWN: Aisi Ameri Gaya Sai. Mullali. Won't be the. And when my. Any of that?

Speaker 4: Sounds good. This anarchy radio for March. What what date is this March 5th 2013? You can call the numbers 5413460645. I know that by heart I've been here now. I’m cricket. I'm here with Jay-Z or John Sears and the host and that was some Finnish music. A band called TV Arreza Story and the song is called Clumsy. And it's about bringing down civilization immediately at all costs.

Speaker 1: Whoa, that's great. I was sitting here waiting for a. Call to give the phone number.

Speaker 4: That was a joke, by the way. About the lyrics. But I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: That's what it should be. It maybe it is, and finish if there's anyone to contradict.

Speaker 4: Basically the lyrics of. All the songs which I don't know, so we're just going to. We're going to just say they're all about bringing down civilization, no. Matter what it. Takes pretty much.

Speaker 1: OK, that's that. Could be theme for the. Lively reunion man when were you here last?

Speaker 4: I think I was here in October 2011 was the last time I was here, yeah, so.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's nice to be back.

Speaker 1: Been a while.

Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: Geez, yeah, we're gonna have some fun. Yeah, there's the phone number. Let's just blast through some knees here a little bit. Get us warmed up today. The Dow Jones average went over 14,200. A new record. The Dow Jones Industrial average and yesterday was pointed out a bit. You've never you're not aware of this. Probably haven't heard this 100 times. That the split between American workers and the companies that employ them is widening ever widening. Courtney Nelson. Nelson Dee Schwartz on the front page of the New York Times yesterday. And the AFL-CIO. This was last week is backing the Keystone. Oil pipeline the Keystone XL. Another non surprise, also in the middle of last week. And you might have heard about this one too. This really is a is your wonderful catch 22 the suit or that is the attempted suit in federal court aiming to get the government to first of all, disclose surveillance and spying. That whole that whole issue, but the plaintiffs or I should say, would be plaintiffs were foiled that the judgment, the initial judgment, the ruling was they had no standing in quotes. And what that really boils down to? In case you haven't heard the agencies in question. Would not reveal themselves and they would not give out any information, so the so there was no case there was, it went absolutely nowhere in a classic catch 22.

Speaker 4: Yeah, basically that's yeah I had that on my little list too, and that's they've pointed that out. Some of the. Criticism like from. The Verge, the catch 22's come up in a lot of the legal battles around these surveillance cases that basically they're criticizing secret government programs requires the very information that the government refuses to disclose and. So that basically these cases are being shut down before they can even challenge the so-called constitutionality of these warrantless. Mapping, yeah.

Speaker 1: They're perfecting of the security state to maybe even use a euphemism. And right here, this, I think, the program, the feed right before anarchy radio here this evening Tuesday evening. I didn't hear it really, but just caught the. There was a reference to the Campbell Club bust a couple of weeks ago. Carl is nodding. I heard correctly and this week. Cricket used to work for the Daily Emerald. Now there's only one. What do you call a hard copy?

Speaker 4: You're embarrassing me, Jay-Z. Let's not. Talk about those things.

Speaker 1: It's called emerald. Mediand the rest of it's online, but the cover thing, RIP house parties and refers to the latest city measure. In effect. Getting rid of parties. You want to have a drunken, boisterous party forget about it. In fact, it wouldn't even take that, according to quite a few people. It's a new social host ordinance. Is it called as it's called? So I mean, it's maybe not the most major issue, but one sees. You can look all over the place and find more. General sort of police state things happening, and of course the green Liberal mayor piercey. She signed off on this. She signed it and.

Speaker 2: She will.

Speaker 4: She wasn't invited to those house parties when she was younger. Her payback.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just crush crush.

Speaker 4: We couldn't dance pretty much.

Speaker 1: Those students and their parties can be having that. Well, the sinkhole thing, the fellow who was lying in bed and then his. His bedroom fell away into a big sinkhole in Florida. Florida is well known for these sinkholes. You know, strictly though in terms of the coverage may have noticed this. It's all about limestones, because limestone is very porous and one of the people who commented on this said the condition that the sinkhole. started a million years ago, but it isn't quite correct. It's when you pump the water out of these aquifers. For industrial agriculture, that's when they collapse, I mean limestone. If they're full. Of water, it doesn't matter. It could be made out of tissue paper. I suppose it's the water that's holding them up and then more and more as they drain the water away, and that's of course happening in a global. On the global level, one way or another, right? OK China, just some more of this depressing and even more. Even more of it coming down the pipeline spill and channel lays bare environmental concerns. It's putting it mildly from the from the week from the Sunday. New York Times International worries over water use and pollution. Oh, just a number of stories about how the rivers are poisoned in today's. Financial Times Cancer Village Micro blog. Campaign puts pollution center stage for China's new leader. It's a mouthful for a headline, but it's about in particular an aluminum smelter. That belches pollution. And they're talking about a village. It has one of the highest rates of stomach cancer. All these villages people are being poisoned and just goes on and on. Here's a Chinese. Character with a. Little bit of money. This was in the epic times. A week or so ago. Offers $32,000 or CN¥200,000 for any. Chinese official to swim in a polluted river for 20 minutes. It they wouldn't take it as you'd be dead in 20 minutes. It doesn't even mention the river. I mean, you could probably throw. Dart the rampant poisoning of everything. It's unbelievable now it's I don't know how it could get. More scandalous. And also the well this from the weekend Wall Street Journal. Germany takes a. New look at fracking Because of rising energy costs, they haven't been doing the hydraulic fracturing the the extraction of natural gas from shale. It's just coming and the current issue of Harper's, by the way, is a big story on the fracking boom in North Dakota. And the destruction of that. When will the EPA is a piece from ABC News called EPA can't stop the quote. Acid rain. And this about. This about the Environmental Protection Agency, its efforts to reduce the amount of acid rain. And that’s comprised largely of nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, and mercury. Which has polluted. Thousands 10s of thousands of US water bodies. Well, they’re pointing out that’s about it, they can't. They're they're. They're not making any further progress against the acid rain, so we're supposed to believe that everything's being cleaned up and taken care of. But even the EPA says it's not true. Well, here's the AP story of what will be coming before too long terms of this summer in terms of forest fires. Because of climate change. Not only more and more severe fires, but more tree diseases more. Deaths of forest. Because of that, as the drought takes its toll, an Australian report. This was disclosed today from the government. Australian Government's climate Commission. And how it's it points out that Australia is rather well known for both droughts and torrential rains. That's not you can't just point to that and say that's because of global warming, but they are saying now it is the scorching and the soaking. It's gone way past the any of the levels where it used to have it in terms of those cycles. So now they've been very hesitant to point to climate change, but now they're doing it. 01 just oh I guess it's one more thing here. Mentioned this, I think in passing not too long ago about. We may be seeing the stalling out of the increased longevity. In the US, lifespan is falling. For some women, there's another study that came out here from the journal Health Affairs. Today's Wall Street Journal. And this in particular. Poor women. Their life expectancy is now falling so. And you're shooting the week in Switzerland. This was the end of the month Thursday, the 28th last Thursday. At least three people were killed and seven injured and a shooting at a Swiss factory. On Wednesday, the gunman was among the dead. Yep, and in just the US. Well, let's see. I know one thing were thinking about kicking around a little bit is at Anarchist News. Possibly some other places. There is something called the Barcelona. There we go. Thank you. Yes, Anna carried for anarchist actions in Barcelonand response to the nihilist comrades.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 4: Yeah, just it seemed kind. written. like the standard communique, but it seemed like they were also just talking about how you got to move beyond resistance and attacks to supports and creating a culture of resistance, and one that specifically is based on a shared history and a shared narrative and. Shared memory and. So they were they. Were kind. Of juxtaposing, . Their actions, these actions that have happened with also like efforts that support you. Know, for instance, at May 5th at night we told the story of the Mochies and the anarchist struggle against Franco and against democracy. May 13th we cooked a healthy meal for a comrade who has chronic illness. May 17th we rolled up. We wrote a letter to a comrade in prison for participating in a riot. That basically saying the attacks attacks against the system are essential to the struggle, but their struggle does not only consist in attacks and. I really enjoyed that. It just really got me thinking a lot about the Kundera. that book. The book of laughter and forgetting that's his famous quote that the struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting. And justice the need to remember things and just to not let them fade out with this really short historical amnesia that exists now in this day and age of hyperconnectivity. So collective memory of struggle was another term that they they are really. It's like a requiem. They said they don't want to lose our collective memory of strughold And I think that's important because without a history you don't really have a reference point to base or ground your actions off of.

Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah?

Speaker 4: I don't know that’s what I found interesting. I don't know. If you pulled something out of that.

Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about. I'm glad you that occurred to you.

Speaker 4: What was it that was that caught you?

Speaker 1: Well I just. Just on the face of it, I thought it. Was very healthy way. To link that and to as you pointed out, to use that standard. Last night we set fire to this bank you. Know there's also the other side of it, which they. I think really do a good service in reminding that the and also that they're way down with having a riot and setting fire to the bank and all that. I mean the way that they make that very clear, but. But they’re unafraid to point to the. These affirming things, and I think it was really healthy.

Second ITS mention(?)

and it's one thing I thought of in that conjunction that frankly disturbs me and. I'm still wondering whether anyone's going to maybe they won't, but regarding the. The folks in Mexico the individual is tending toward the wild. This. Recent I can't remember the exact date, but they sent an incendiary device in the mail and a postal worker picked it up of an afternoon somewhere in Mexico and it went off and injured. This guy and this what they said. This also. Warrant society or anarchist news or something. Mexico a brief note from individualists tending toward the wild. This a short message about claiming responsibility for the envelope with incendiary contents, which detonated on a curious worker of the Postal Service of Mexican Postal Service. This what I find disturbing. Further, if you read the thing it they say it seems to me the punchline. I'm quoting from the translation from the Spanish. We are aware that these kinds of quote accidents don't know why it's in quotes may happen to reoccur, but this only one of the consequences that the war against the techno industrial system brings. No, no, I think that’s seriously. You just send stuff like that and then and don't seem to doesn't bother you that. I don't know how severely this person was injured, but. Man, that doesn't quite cut it if you.

Speaker 4: Ask me so the context is that basically somebody was killed. And oh, no.

Speaker 1: Not killed, no. I don't think.

Speaker 4: Nearly injured, you said.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it says it was dynamite in this package is parcel and.

Speaker 4: That's some group claim response, yeah?

Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the individuals tending toward the wild. And then they're saying, Oh well, we're aware that these kinds of quote accidents may happen to reoccur, but. It, but too bad.

Speaker 4: That's the name of the group. The individualists, tending toward the wild.

Speaker 1: Yeah, ITS, they've they. This not so well known up here. I've mentioned it somewhat on the show here before they. They killed a nanotechnology engineer in Mexico as one of the leading lights of the nanotech stuff. Down there in Monterrey, he was driving and they plugged him. They offed him there. They're very much a. Quote Unabomber type group, in fact they're. It reads word for word with the. With that point of view, and which in general, I totally agree with, but this, I think this. Somebody mentioned that when they're reading these things from the ITS and its critique of civilization, I forget exactly how this worded, and maybe I'm pushing this a little. Too far, but. They're anti SIV, but aren't they exhibiting some of the worst civilizational attitudes? Don't know I'm. That doesn't really grab me very much, except in a negative way.

Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the individualist thing all about? I mean, what's why are they aligning themselves to that?

Speaker 1: It's just a name. I mean they’re very anti tech. They're making war on the high tech stuff, including or especially the nanotech. stuff and they’re out to do battle and they are, I mean they.

Speaker 4: How long is how long have these people been around?

Speaker 1: Oh couple of years going on three years. I think it's fairly new.

Speaker 4: And do they have any like affiliation with indigenous movements down there or no?

Speaker 1: I've seen nothing mentioned on that level. That's a good question. They're very fiercely critical of other groups. One could mention Ted Kaczynski, his. And is his allergy to leftist groups, which I certainly share. But they’re. I don't know just the tone of it. It could be something to do with the translation, but I think it's basically. You know, ruthless group, that's if they blow somebody.

Speaker 5: Up Oh well.

Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way that reads to me. You don't. There's no consideration of changing that tactic. I mean they killed that guy. You can't say that was collateral damage, they shot him meant to shoot him and they. Shot him and. Anyway, this leads into all kinds of questions, but. That stood out to me. Yeah, this we. This something you hadn't been too aware of. I think they've. I don't know how well known it is in Mexico, and it's certainly not well known here at all. Just among the anarchist websites and so forth. And it occurred to me that as I've thrown out some of this information. Some of these communiques there's a little book actually now of the communiques. Visavis radio it could well be that people are not my designate to pick up the phone to be talking about stuff like that. I mean that could. Be why there hasn't been a lot of conversation the show about it. Except for me, but.

Speaker 4: You're saying that people are afraid to talk about it.

Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that would. Be that. That would be understandable.

Speaker 4: Well, why don't we open up the phone lines? Right now and that's

Speaker 1: Let's do that.

Speaker 4: That's, let's get people's opinions.

Speaker 1: 5413460645.

Speaker 5: Dozen calls waiting already.

Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, tell us you're down with just blowing up random people or. Or maybe you're not. I mean I, I have to say I found it very exciting that this group has emerged and I said back in the Unabomber days there's going to be more of this. Maybe not tomorrow, but probably fairly soon. There will be people that will not tolerate this thing. Going on without a serious response. And that philosophically. That's I. I find that I'm definitely not arguing with that, but it's how you do it, for one thing.

Speaker 4: I think we've got a phone call.

Speaker 1: You did it good.

Speaker 5: We're going to see if this works.

Speaker 4: I hope so. I hope I did it. Who knows what this person.

Speaker 2: Is going to say this Keith from sorry I forgot.

Speaker 3: Where you from?

Speaker 6: From Boston

Speaker 2: There we.

Speaker 3: Go hey Keith.

Speaker 6: Hi yeah I was wondering if you have any input on the recent development by scientists from Brown University. Who recently developed the first wireless brain computer interface interface, which is basically they hook up a computer to. Directly to the brain of animal, whether it's a pig or a monkey. And apparently it can communicate with other computers wirelessly. I'm wondering if you have any response to that.

Speaker 4: I've this the first step I've heard of this. Is this a recent development? I mean it's not surprising, but. Was this in the news recently or?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well I saw something about mice. And they're even they're Speaking of wireless is. This the same story.

Speaker 6: It's a related story, but this a. Little bit different.

Speaker 1: Can you tell us about? It yeah, let's share that if you want. To kick that out there.

Speaker 4: Yeah, what's like the functional? What's the said functional goal of the that the scientist studies? I mean what are they trying to show that they can get animals on a Wi-Fi network?

Speaker 6: The basic the. The goal. Of it is basically. To that, the computer that's hooked up to the brain should allow people who are paralyzed to be able to move artificial limbs. That's that's what they say. But personally, when I hear about this, I sometimes wonder ways in which this technology could be misused. And I also think there's some ethical considerations. Too because. Think of all the animals who were affected in this research, which. Which I've been sort of thinking about.

Speaker 1: You know one thing that comes to me on that score, Keith is there is a there is a fall back argument. Which counters the General General anti tech. Critique and it strikes me as somewhat effective or somewhat compelling. That is, what about people who without technology would either die or have no mobility, or? So forth and so that if you're. If you don't want that, then you sound like you're. Callous and don't want them to have any assistance. While you perhaps presumably able bodied anyone, I mean that sort of thing in general. Comes in there and the stereotype against primitivists is going down the hallway in the hospitals. Unplugging people from their respirators, and so forth as if that would be. On anyone's mind that I know. Of that's for sure, but but we are being made more dependent by the minute on all these things. We simply are. I mean, we're held hostage in so many ways. I mean, we're. Were praying for some techno rescue in a lot of ways because of the condition we're in and because of all that technology in the general sense has engendered in the first. You know, so all these things are moving forward faster and faster. I mean the quest for artificial intelligence and all these different things. It's part of the general movement and I think even well anyway. Do you? Are there other? Does that sound like part of it to you?

Speaker 6: Part of it and I'm just wondering like how many? Life forms were. Crippled in the process of developing this, this these these technologies too, I mean. In this article that I read, they showed pictures of monkeys with. With these things hooked up to their brains and . Was it is it is it? Is it ethical to do that to? Monkeys, even if it. Might have some human application sometime down the down the line. I mean where do we draw the line in terms of in terms of ethics in terms of this stuff and. Was there other? Other ways of achieving similar results with? Going through, I mean I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the technology that involves hooking up a computer to a brain because. They say it's for. Helping people are paralyzed, but. Down the down. The road it might have other applications as well. So where would that end up, ?

Speaker 1: Yeah well yeah to get here.

Speaker 4: And I think that we should qualify that it's probably going to be for helping rich people who are paralyzed. I mean, it seems like that these these cutting edge technological developments it takes a long long time before they trickle down to the masses, so to speak. I mean, I can't see this being a inexpensive thing for them to deploy. You know, in the future that it's going to be helping all of these. You know, paralyzed people or something like that. And I, I mean, for me It’s not worth the price any anything that is inflicting suffering on something else. In order to prolong something else's life is not is not worth the price and It’s inflicting suffering. I mean, that’s not. You know, beat around the Bush here. That's that's what that's what's going on. It's inflicting harm and damage on another living being and just. It just happens to not be a human being, and. I just think that’s too high of a price to pay, and so you ask where where you draw the line. Draw the line there and at many other things really, because there's always going to benefits to every technological development that comes out. You could always see, oh, It’s doing this or it's doing that, but there's always the cost and the costs are are they? Tend to be. They tend to eclipse the benefits in my view of any of any of these technological developments you could you could see positive aspects, but you really the negative ones are hidden, and they're usually hide. Because they're externalized on the poor, the poor, whether they're animals, or whether there's they're poor people, or whether they're non industrialized humans. Those are the people who are suffering for these developments. That's that's how I view it anyway.

Speaker 6: Keith, I definitely recommend you guys check out the this new story because it's just, it's just.

Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the source? Go ahead, throw out the source.

Speaker 6: You know It’s. There's a number I don't have the source right in front of me, but there’s a number of articles online from from different sources. If you just go to Google and Type Brown University. The brain computer interface. You should be able to find.

Speaker 1: OK, we'll it, yeah? Because we, I think we should never leave out. What is the condition that sets the stage for this? In other words, we're talking about people who found themselves in Iraq or Afghanistan. We're talking about the million or so people every year in car crashes. I mean, I don't. I don't think we should. Think of chronic war, which is a condition of civilization as. In other words, it's part of this. It is almost assuming that we'll always have this mass problem of. I'm not saying that life isn't without peril, without even without those things, but one could easily think of the scale of this. It becomes attractive when you have a mass condition of people being killed and maimed in the. Constant wars and the and the constant industrial reality. I mean what? What about getting rid of those then? Then the other would probably recede as a major. It's something that's persuasive to people.

Speaker 4: And I think it's really appealing for the society to look for solutions that assuage individuals pain and avoid looking at the larger social costs. The larger social and environmental costs of these kinds of developments. Everybody's looking for the quick fix individualist solution and ignoring the fact that there's broader implications. There it's alleviating suffering for some people while causing inflicting misery on a much larger scale. So thanks. Yeah, maybe with that we should take a break and bring it to some music. And come back.

Speaker 1: Appreciate your calling all right. Thanks, yeah.

UNKNOWN: I want to come.

Speaker 1: It's finished, yeah.

Speaker 4: So that was some more finish music. I'm just going to grab the music player over here and.

Speaker 3: Going out.

Speaker 4: It's yeah basically the lyrics of the song translate to we need to bring civilization down immediately, no matter whatever the cost. So yeah, they say it in so many different ways and it the language is so beautiful.

Speaker 5: Those fins man.

Speaker 4: I mean I, I wouldn't even know that they were talking about. You know such intense things. It's so poetic and. Anyway, yeah this anarchy radio and we're back, and the number will just say we got a caller on the line, but the number is 541-3460. 645

UNKNOWN: We got Todd.

Speaker 1: Hey Todd you yes good what's?

Speaker 3: Up hi, I wanted to follow up on this. This point about anarchist or that individualists tending. Towards the wild. What exactly is their orientation? Because I've heard this brought up and I'm still trying to understand something myself. I, I think maybe I have a understanding. I think it may tie to a key point about your own ideology and I wanted to clarify.

Speaker 1: Little trouble hearing you.

Speaker 3: Yeah so. Yes, OK. Can you hear me?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're a little frank, but I'm but I'm. Getting you.

Speaker 3: OK so I I wanted to raise this point of what exactly is the ideology of individual intending towards the wild? And I understand that the distinction is that they advocate that there is no hope. That this they see their actions as only an instinct as sort of a. Bonds that they don't believe that there can be a transition to something better that this this animalistic response to technology and It’s unavoidable. I my understanding is that you, on the other hand, do advocate certain norms. I mean you advocate values that you believe in that you want to spread and. You write about it. And I, it's curious to me because you've raised the Kaczynski and is that also a difference? Whereas he just embraced wildness in the purity, where as you continue politics in the sense you, you, you can make the argument that you are the end of the last policy political critique active in sort of the dialectic of it all.

Speaker 1: That's a good way. To put it.

Speaker 3: If things go to the end, that's the last norm. To be good and value.

Speaker 1: That's an interesting way to put. But I confess I'm just generally puzzled. I guess I'm old school. I mean, I always. I always think what is the point? If you've seen if you have a hopeless thing and you as they do, I think you're quite right to they explicitly rule it out there. There's not going to be any change. We're not, we're just doing it as you say. Distinctively, we're doing it because we are wild and but not because we. We tendered the idea of having some a result or some shift or some a different paradigm coming in, and I know there's a lot of people that makes a lot of sense to but. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I haven't. I'm not willing to just throw down like that and just say, oh, it's just hopeless and but I'm going to kill people anyway. I mean that doesn't add up to me. I mean it. How do you say that?

Speaker 3: Well, I feel that I I have these beliefs. You know I think I also have the norms and that's whattracts me to your show and to your work is that I. I think there isn't something better and I'm inspired by, like you say, native. You know the native cultures, the cultures that still have some of this history left that shared history and so to say that. That were giving up when there's an alternative that we can see. I can't understand that, so I've I feel that we should should keep talking about other ways of life. And I the question of violence is I don't know, I’m. I'm not decided on that but I definitely think that to do violence without any objectives seems a little perverse I don't know.

Speaker 1: And to me it's. As animal as I've traveled along the road of thinking about what occurs to you and what you. What changes in? Thinking and so forth, they really the touchstone to me is community. And if we give up on community, we see right now what happens in advanced mass society techno society when community is. All but gone. And I think it's worth fighting for and to hold out. And what would it take to have community, the community that we want? Or are we just going to be absolutely isolated? You mentioned Kaczynski, who said really isolated he was. Either unable or uninterested in any social aspect and. You know, so he did what he did alone and.

Speaker 2: You know?

Speaker 3: And maybe it's.

Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with his 30,000 word industrial society's future. But are we just condemned to just thisolation, and which in a way reproduces the lack the isolation that is, keeps mounting that the fact of no community left? Are we going to do something about it?

Speaker 3: Well, the other the other thing and I this a difference that I've always wanted to pin down that he, he argued, was that we shouldn't. We shouldn't import any norms that we've had from civilization or from other any society about goodness about altruism. All these things that you value, that other that we all value. Into nature, and he felt that I believe my understanding is that he felt that your critique of civilization kept some politics. Baggage or some value imported that which was artificial and that maybe that's what this the individualists are saying is that if there's no hope and those values can never be could be advanced in the wild.

Speaker 1: But . But then, but then you're generally not looking at your own values. There's no value free place to be. I mean you they It’s not that they don't have any norms or values. It, I don't think that's I don't think that's possible, it's just that they're not the same ones and. Maybe they should be. A little more explicit about that. And what they what they want and.

Speaker 3: But it's wireless of value.

Speaker 1: What they don't want?

Speaker 3: Is the while the value itself is nature its own value that doesn't? That doesn't align with our value systems. I think that's maybe.

Speaker 1: They're arguing well, right? But then, but that's I mean, you could say that's valid abstractly, but what does it mean? For humans. Does it meanything? I mean you have to, you have to make the translation. It seems to me you. That's fine, I mean we. Could all agree on that and come. Out with different, points. Do different ways of applying that. In other words, you could say is Kaczynski did the natural order means that basically women are subjugated and gays are not acceptable. Well that's the complete political choice that's what you take nature to be. But that's I think that's not only groundless and objectionable, but it. Again, it's. There's nothing. There's nothing that comes out of that without it. Without a, that's a reflective point of view, there's. That's a conclusion. You can't get away with saying, oh, that's just that's nature. It's not true. I mean It’s weak in many, many ways to come out and then hide behind the well. That's the natural order.

Speaker 3: But hypothetically, if there was something in the natural order that didn't align with, a value that you would share you the conclusion of your program or your critique would have to be that. The transition or the movement toward the wild involves some normative importation of some norm, and if that's impossible and that's what I think the individualists are saying, that is impossible, that you return to the wild can't have, it's not going to be a movement.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 3: It's not. Going to be. A transition, then there's nothing but. Just action and activity and morality damn.

Speaker 1: Well, that's but again, I think you that I don't know whether you that really happens. That way you can say that it's just. It's a it's a correspondence without values or choices, but I don't think it is. It's you're deciding. For example, you're deciding that if you blow up some postal worker who happens along a package. That's a decision that's a valued decision.

Speaker 3: Right, right? And they and they want to take away any consequence by this saying, no, it's just.

Speaker 1: Our exactly, that's a that's really not very honest. It seems to me. You should be able to back that up and then then there can be a conversation.

Speaker 3: I agree with.

Speaker 1: I mean there's no getting. Away from social, I mean you. You here we are we're. Anyway, I don't know I. I'm really happy you brought this up. This real serious stuff.

Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think this key. This a key point and I want to. I'd like to hear you keep developing. This individual is tending towards the wild because I think it goes to the future of this whole question of what is what is going to happen for the next 5000 years.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah well. Well, this really helpful, this. Part of the ongoing thing that we have to face up to and explore. Thank you.

Speaker 4: Very much thanks for calling.

Speaker 3: Todd, thank you. Bye bye.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 1: I want to race through. I know we're. We've got some excellent calls. I'm going to go through some. Action News real fast and then then I hope we. Have 1010 minutes.

Speaker 4: Yeah, and somebody else wants to call in the meantime, while Jay-Z going off the Action News you. Know we can keep you in the queue.

Speaker 1: There you go.

Speaker 4: 541-346-0645 call.

Speaker 1: Up this some news from Brazil indigenous community fighting against the logging that's taking place. I'm having trouble. I'm sure this pronunciation is not good, but the members of a probe. Indigenous community sees. 4 trucks and a tractor. They get fed up with waiting for. Help from the government to stop the. Cutting of their of the forests there so they have taken action. I think that's pretty exemplary. In Russia, Black bloc containing crimes, destruction of police station and move move deniki, which is the Moscow region the night of February 19th to the 20th. Completely destroyed the contents of this police station in the village of Poveda, Nikki. Last Thursday, well, no Thursday February 21st Group of anarchists attacked the police station and at Clark, yet in Athens with Monotones. In solidarity with four anarchists arrested in the case of an armed expropriation, cops fled when they saw the attack unfolding and know where that police station is. And just before midnight last Monday, the 25th town halls is under construction. In the Central District of Seattle. They went against this quote, green. Developments set one of these townhouses on fire. Oh what ease. Oh what fun is front of our reads. Last Tuesday night. Week ago the 26th. This Montreal surveillance cameras. Were attacked. Filled with let's see. Yeah on the night of February 26th, fire extinguisher filled with paint. And on the night of March 3rd. This weekend broke a surveillance camera. By dropping a slab of concrete onto it from the roof, that sort of thing going on. And then let's say, last Wednesday's arson of a financial. Institution of Vancouver BC. I want to just really cut these make these very abbreviated here in. The end or. Clashes over land seas from indigenous folks. This basically. In the middle of last week, all we have is our land. Palestinians have stopped their hunger strike. 2 Palestinian prisoners. Were killed anyway. The Israeli Government are releasing. The strikers. They had to pay a price that's for sure and oh, very good news. As people up here probably largely know last Thursday. Matthew Durand Katio Olejnik were freed. The injury resistors. I guess District Judge Richard Jones ordered them released, concluding that there was so little possibility that they would agree to testify victory they held up for months and months, and they had. To kick them loose. They weren't going to. They were not going to quote cooperate last Thursday, the 29th Property Management Office in Oakland. This part of the Kono development of gentrification. Project connecting Downtown Oakland with the Tennis Balls shopping district. Breaking windows shooting pain the office of this development outfit, indigenous folks from the Ecuadorian Amazon challenging the government of Ecuador against the North American Prospect Expo, which is an oil. Outfit and an attack on the wind park, which is the largest in Latin America which would completely do away with habitat, natural resources and their food supplies. The indigenous peoples and the issuance of tewantin spec. In Mexico I have if anybody wants this. I have a biblio bibliography. Thanks to Danielle on Indigenous Feminism, 5 books and 12 articles. You could let me know and I'd be glad to shoot it to you. The rest of this 01 more thing. Of the second anti career Anti Civilization day. In New Delhi, the on Hillal network will be March 9th in New Delhi. They're having another one of these soon. We have we have.

Speaker 6: Yeah, this Sarah Paul from New Orleans.

Speaker 5: Hello hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1: Good.

Speaker 5: I'm just going to pose a question and. Then we'll get off. Here and my question is what is the word dignity you mean to you guys and why does it seem to be so scarce in modern society? Is it just another sort of throw away word that refers back? Bygone era of whole or more meaningful labor? Or is it? You know. Something more or something that might.

Speaker 6: Point point back.

Speaker 5: Towards pre civilized life and yeah interested to see what you had to say.

Speaker 1: See, you had some really good. Questions and comments. Well, I think it's I think we're less and less autonomous and less and less skilled, and I think that has a lot to do with one's sense of. Self respect or dignity. I mean, there's the condition in mass society is a degrading one, and it seems to me it's it. You could think of a lot of different ways to put this. But I think it's possible to be fairly specific in terms of measuring measuring the change. I just finished writing a somewhat longish essay about the. Luddite risings in the background in England between 1800 and 1820, where people were forced into the factories at the dawn of modern mass society and how much they resisted. And they knew what was being taken away from them, and it was their very dignity, and they were. It was just an all out. Well, three different lenite risings and other forms of resistance that aren't necessarily called Luddite at that time, which is a real turning point and a little. It's historically I think you can. You can try to ground that question of what it is. And what is happening to it? How does what is it? What does? It matter to you.

Speaker 4: He's off the line, yeah?

Speaker 1: Oh oh, right, right, sorry.

Speaker 4: You could ask that to me, though. You know I could try to fill the fill in.

Speaker 6: All good.

Speaker 4: Yeah, dignity, that's a pretty. That's a pretty big one, and I do think that's a really good question too. I feel I feel like all the calls have really brought up good issues. I guess I see that as. Deprived of a meaningful sense of choice, really in a society, and. It people. They don't have dignity if they, if they don't have choice, and I think that in within that there’s a much larger thing you could see that some people do have choice. Some people don't have choice, and then some people would see their choice as. As having choice when some people would view them as not really having a choice at all or basically. You know It’s. It's almost like freedom. You know it's like, oh, I feel free to be able to wake up in the morning and type on my computer or, go to work or go to the grocery store or something like that. What does that mean? Is that choice really? You know, is that is? Can there be? Can there be? Dignity as such in a society that is really based on actively depriving other other people of choice. And to me the answer in the grand scheme of things would be really no. So I think a state of dignity or human dignity or dignity for life as such would really depend on people being able to live in a way that they're not really depriving other people of choice. And I don't think that means a. And I don't know it's not to me anti. I'll just leave it at that. I think that's the best thing that I could come up with off. The top of my head while you were talking about it.

Speaker 1: Well, I bet that makes sense. Maybe we have consumer. Choice if have money.

Speaker 4: Yeah, you got consumer choice. You've got career choice. I've got some, I've got some autonomy within a certain economic framework. Other people don't. Other a lot of other people have a lot more than me, but I think it's just. It misses. The larger issue that the society itself is. And if. Predicated, I mean it's just the basic thing. It's the basic thing that you say every week on this show that nobody really wants to talk about, which is that this an inherently exploitive society, and all and most of the discourse that comes up around. Change in society, really. Comes up more around, talking about change within the framework of that exploitive apparatus. And it's not a very satisfying conversations and. You know it's it's just. It's, you would talked about the surveillance stuff earlier and I looked at that and I've been looking at a lot of tech. News lately and it's just really I. It's that there's even this like affectation that there's this choice between you can balance technology and privacy or something like that. You know it's somehow that the development of technology can somehow be tempered by these privacy concerns rather than understanding that the development of technology is inherently anti privacy, it's I think it's tending to. More and more of people's lives being lived in the public, not only amongst their friends, but amongst the government authorities too. And it's just. It's just this, this false. Dichotomy, really, that there's like, oh, we can bound. We can balance technological technological development with, . You know, whatever privacy. I just In the grand scheme. I just don't see it that way. And the same thing with dignity. I mean, I think that you could talk about dignity in a in a smaller scale of things like . Obviously we want people to feel like they're experiencing dignity and whatever aspects of their lives that they can right now. This not a dignified condition in mass. Industrialized, consumer society. And rant.

Speaker 1: Very nice yeah is it just a coincidence that the more technology there is, the more circumscribed is that field of choice and dignity?

Speaker 2: Yeah, this.

Speaker 1: In privacy, I mean it's there you could. You could answer that question.

Speaker 4: They're handmaidens, the development and technology and the invasion of privacy are handmaidens. They go hand in hand. And let's let's not pretend that we can have our cake and eat it too. But we can listen to some more finished music to close this out.

Speaker 1: Oh, OK.

Speaker 4: One more song about the collapse of civilization, ?

Speaker 1: There we go, that same old thing with those fins. They're really, they're really. On and on.

Speaker 4: They just hit. That thead on the nail. I think that's how you say. That phrase or I just did a George W Bush that yeah, thanks Jay-Z. It's good to be here.

Speaker 1: Thank you for being here cricket.

02-26-2013

[audio]

Cliff at the ready. All sorts of news, the culture of dis-ease, disconnection, desperate diversion. Discussion of the claims of technology and bizarre facets of the apps-world. Lots of action news around the world.

02-19-2013

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Chagnon’s Noble Savages, 7th Individualists Tending toward the Wild communiqué. Obama’s Brain Activity Map and other news, selected anarchist action news. Fine New Orleans call.

Speaker 1: Shut down your cell phone. Destroy your feelings. And listen. This the same civilization.

Speaker 3: Against civilization answer Sunny and true. But Kevin is here we can have some fun. She brought the sun. Down from Portland

Speaker 2: Always sunshine.

Speaker 3: Happy to see you. Very good, yeah, lots to talk about and it's called set 5413460645 and you give us a call. OK, it's about exactly 10 years ago, millions across the world gathered in the biggest antiwar rallies in history and some.

Speaker 4: OK.

Speaker 3: February 17th, the largest climate rally in history, happened on the National Mall in Washington DC and claiming 50,000 people or more. Some people said it was like an Obama rally. It wasn't maybe all that. Heavy, but one thing I noticed, what do these two things have in? Common, probably the idea that or the outcome will be nil, that neither one. No matter how many they have, it didn't do anything, of course, to forestall the second Gulf War. The war against Iraq in 2003. And I doubt very much that350.org and the Sierra Club and. The Obama fans their little rally. Their polite rally is going to have the slightest difference if anyone thinks otherwise.

Speaker 2: I would say what they have in common is they won't happen again any near future. Is that good or is that bad? I won't even go that route, but I think it's what strikes me. Is Valentine's Day was billed multiple places. Is some thing. A billion stand up or something against domestic abuse. A billion people rising a billion March or something because I heard on. News in Portland. Great concern on the February 13th about some unauthorized March that was going to take place downtown, and they were warning drivers the next day that they might be delayed coming home and come to the next day. Of course, thelicopters are in the air. Over Portland there's a ragtag group on the news. Maybe 100 women. You know, small group of women marching down the street. Helicopters overhead, and . Sadly it was called some like a billion people rise up or a billion against them. You know the number was thrown out there and that was more likely the unauthorized marches when and where they happen and how. I do think that since. 2003 she don't see that anymore, not.

Speaker 3: No, no people don't bother It’s. Antiquarian or quaint. For good reason for obvious reasons. It's probably nothing quite so impolite as domestic violence, but there's still. I guess people still want to believe that if they just follow all the rules and. Something like that will. Go away as hard as that. Is to imagine.

Speaker 2: Well, in tying that two to mass society, I mean a mass protest that volumes of people in the street who don't know each other, who little groups can't mindlessly their own local. You know mantra. Yeah blast from the past.

Speaker 3: Yeah, pointless. If those people were attacking government buildings and banks and so forth. Throwing the computers out the windows then. Of course it would be altogether different. We've got a bunch of interesting writings to talk about of at least one new book and some other things that have been posted. That just in the past few days here, yeah, I thought we might get into a little bit of that before news.

Speaker 2: That sounds good. I mean, my list really is theart of the press, the ITS individualist, tending toward the wild, their 7th communique. They actually I'm going to throw out four things. I know you and I both are aware of. We want to talk about and I'm hoping we'll get some callers because I think. All four of these are related, and they’re hot. Topics that its communicate. Jared Diamond's new book, The World until yesterday. What can we learn from traditional societies? New York Times article and I see you have a reference to it. Also, the Shannon anthropology controversy all was in the New York Times Sunday magazine. Information, on anthropology and in the past, and then randomly an interview that was reprinted in anarchist news of Rahul Vanagon from situation of Sarah so and actually on my way down I threw together. Just like some like I guess we'd call it in our society tags for the topics what? What do I think they have in common? Well, certainly war, violence direct action is a common throughout. Well, especially the assertion I think in the anthropology circles is something that there's a state of chronic warfare in tribal societies. And then that completely go, feeds into the ITF communique, warfare, violence direct action, and then the situation is Raul von again just a different slant or something.

Speaker 3: Right, a little bit not talking about violence per say, as I recall. Well, they're. Showing the book. The new book is Noble, Savage and there was a great big flap several years ago with and he was drummed out of the anthropology circles because there's some a throwback to some of these earlier types who. Were trying. To maintain that humans are inherently bloodthirsty and violent and a lot of that has been debunked, a lot of the evidence for that so-called evidence has been debunked. But he's come around from his field work with the on Amomo in Amazonia in South South America. And this new book is trying to. That's a memoir, and he's revisiting these battles. And his main line seems to be. He hasn't retreated from it. He says these people were constantly at war. With each other with other tribes, and that from this he concludes that violence is. The main motive cultural force in evolution and. Well, I just what struck. Me in there's been tons of reviews. This a. Big big sort of a bombshell. I mean, anthropology books are not bombshells, so. But this guy was already controversial and this his. Summing up the one. Thing I always notice and I know I've said this before in similar contexts, but. Who are these people? I mean, OK, if we can accept that he's not lying about the amount of bloodshed and their routine violence and all that, then It’s. It seems to me a little bit unusual that we never find out. Who the Yanomami are? What do they? How do they live? What are their institutions and their lifeways? Well, they’re domesticated. I mean, I hate to keep hitting that same drum, but they grow bananas and other things. They practice shifting agriculture, also known as slash and burn agriculture where you grow things and then when this soil is impoverished and often jungle soils are rather thin so they have to move on to another area. Clear that and form there and then and then. So they are not. They're not utterly sedentary because they have to move. But anyway, it that’s a cardinal thing and it just always amazes me that's left out and you don't have to go so far away to see this. You see it almost anywhere American SW. For example, one of my one easy example when the Anasazi. People and others began to domesticate corn. About 1000 years ago in the American SW, human sacrifice was not far behind. OK, I mean if there's a link, but he doesn't seem to get around to saying or even noticing or questioning the link where. If you've got 100, gather people who do not practice domestication, neither. Are they bloodthirsty so-called or always, ? I would have to killing the other people and capturing their women and all the rest of it.

Speaker 2: That's a different take than what I was picking up from the whole warfare, chronic warfare, and tribal society. Certainly the role of agriculture and. Which you're calling domestication. Isn't isn't any key in any of these that I saw on agriculture? Jared Diamond or Shannon is how you pronounce it. I thought it was interesting with him that he was on to evolutionary theory and genetics., like. Leading the way into these modern. Modern ways of understanding our world and the one article talked about in some ways that was a shift away from the cultural materialist. The Marxist Leninist basis of anthropology from the 68 or whatever. So I thought. That whole way of moving away from modes of production or simple Marxist economic type of analysis. Was to his credit. That's sort of getting away getting away.

Speaker 3: No, there have been. There were a lot of left wing anthropologists who were horrified and various people. And this one of the things that's still an issue. Various people have claimed, including Ferguson that you don't get there. There has there was there was some warfare. But it never was very nasty or violent until. Well, contact until Europeans began to influence them in terms of what we would call modern trade relationships so that they are not inherently according to that theory. They're not inherently violent, It’s the colonial contamination. If you will, that changed that and but it's it. It gets back to you when one tries to sort it out is so if you're saying that violence is the main motive for us in culture. Or is it? Is it a symptom? Is it an effect and not a cause? The same with population? I think it's much more valid to say overpopulation is the result of deeper things than I think violence is the result of deeper. Deeper things other institutionally, namely domestication? So he's it's not that there's no violence. But when does that appear and why? Yeah, it just like. Certainly there's overpopulation too, but what? What is its role? It is it an independent factor does it appear because of X&Y?

Speaker 2: OK, and I would say but also a piece of it to me is just our ways of seeing what is existence. OK, so when there are assertions that tribal societies, whether practicing agriculture or domestication. Or not, there's an assertion of this chronic warfare in. The in the past societies or other the other societies of that being a problem, chronic warfare, that's how you. Know so it gets to. It creased me OK, you take the Mayans or something. The ball games where I lop off your head and throw it through a hoop. And that actually isn't to resolve conflicts. That's a part of my celebration of life and or of being. That there are, it's you're eccentric to have these this view that the existence that we're in right now the rational existence. There's life, death. There's the separation of those whereas other. Social groupings will take a dream life. As life will take an afterlife, they'll put your wives in there and your jewels and stuff. When they bury you, . But these are these are not illegitimate or disproven. You know one's not right and one's not wrong. So do attribute to these societies that all.

Speaker 4: Their warfare.

Speaker 2: Is the same as our warfare, and really isn't a chess game. In some ways that It’s a distortion.

Speaker 3: Right, and we're always making these choices. For example, the it's appealing. I admit's appealing to me to have discovered that together life the ethos is one of sharing for various reasons. Sharing is a good thing. But that's a statement of value. That's a choice. I mean, that’s you like sharing? What if it isn't? I mean what if sharing is I don't care. About sharing, . It's and it's hard to get away from those things. I mean, especially if you're getting some impulse or influence from from somewhere else. In other words, if in terms of politics in terms of primitivism. Let's say you're drawing on those on things that you like. Admittedly, you are, you're not. You're not drawing on things that you find repulsive or oppressive, or subjugating women or whatever it might be. I mean, but like you say that’s that is a point of view of certain people and.

Speaker 2: Right, no, that's an excellent point because I would say the review in the New York Times Book Review of Diamonds Book the opening paragraph, eye-catching front page is, Oh my God, this woman was giving birth in this tribe. It was a bridge to livery and she was crying for. Help and I was with the tribe and they said, leave her alone. Leave her alone in the morning they were both dead and that was David Brooks. It was, very alarming and the whole tone of the review was, well, this it got a lot of comfort, he had nice front page, but the whole tone of the review. It's like well don't be. Out there from with this book, this book in fact, he even this paraphrasing him, but he said this book won't won't help you to understand what we could learn from tribal societies. It was this criticism and I picked up the book. I'm reading the book. You know, I think the book is definitely of value, and I think that one thing of note is that the fact of this book getting the reviews it does in the New York Times, the this discussion. Of so-called primitive societies or pre civilization is is to me, that's very promising. You haven't had this dialogue or interest in that these societies actually existed, not that long ago, and in some in some ways still. Continue to exist minimally and that in perhaps they are a bit better off than we are. Is the in the background. Let's not go there. But there's certainly more more attention to anti sieve theory.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm thinking of the Daniel Everett book too. Don't sleep. There are snakes. And then he was an evangelical missionary who, as you say, well in that case discovered it. It was very much more attractive. Of Lifeway society. Yeah, and he makes it pretty clear without glossing over some things that. We from our. Vantage point. Now I wouldn't want to practice, probably, but. Yeah, maybe we should. Should we go into the ITS little bit?

Speaker 2: I yeah, I think definitely the ITS I mean the ITS in there. That their whole thing rejects the chaos of civilization and ferociously defends the whiled order of nature. So I mean it's still the same part of this. This very new, very contemporary critique which. Really, the cultural materialists or whatever been pretty silenced or marginalized, and that's to me that egg is cracking.

Speaker 3: There you go. Yeah, I think that's very important.

UNKNOWN: We got Paul on the line from New Orleans.

Speaker 4: Hi Paul, go ahead please hi good.

Speaker 6: How are you? Guys, I guess I'm calling. I'm listening to prevent some frustrations I have with anthropology course I'm taking at the moment here in New Orleans on Hunter gatherers and sort of the School of Anthropology. That this belongs to. And then I guess get some feedback from you guys in the process. The woman who teaches it as an advocate of ideas for what they're calling scientific anthropology, and it's based on the coursework that I've done so far, and I read a lot of your stuff as well. I mean I, I have a lot of concerns about. Some of the trends I guess in. The scientific school. One in particular is this branch that views everything in these very strict economic terms, and I think. Called behavioral ecology or something like that, and these guys borrow terms from from economics like opportunity costs and net acquisition rates, . And there are graphs and formulas galore, and I don't mean to suggest that they bring to people. Aren't employing strategies when they're hunting and gathering, but. I kept wondering while reading this stuff you. Know what's the point. On dwelling in these strategies in this extremely technical way, I mean, what's the point of? Primitive people like they live. Like investment bankers or something? I mean what? What is the motivation here?

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 6: And I think what this discourse does, intentionally or not, is sort of ground. Today's fixation of pathological fixation economics into the sort of the deep. Human past it's. The ultimate rationalization of the economic way of thinking. It's like, look, we've been doing. This forever we've always. Had hedge funds, or whatever? The term happens to be. But this very illuminating part in this essay by Bruce Winterhalter. I think his name is a strong advocate of this view. And he talked about how useful use hunter gatherer economic strategies can be when designing things like search engines. And basically that it's just great. Resource for business, and I think here you can get an idea of really where the loyalties lie with some of these people, and they claim that they're perfectly objective. But in the end, they sort of have the same dispirited and fragmenting lens that the economists and the corporations do. And by helping to spread it intellectually into the most unlikely places, like primitive societies, they're very much in allegiance with what I think is the industrializing standardizing sort of economic machine. So I guess what I want to talk about is. It's not just the economic perspective, but the sort of the larger. A more empirical scientific perspective that includes that I think there are a lot of a lot of. A shared thing with like one the sort of unaccounted for fascination with variables and numbers. And with things that can be measured. And which is totally ideological. I don't think there's anything neutral about this sort. Of obsession with. Numerical data, but one of the things I've noticed with this, . The political scientists, it seems fundamentally uninterested in, or downright hostile to, qualitative difference, and I think the most outrageous example of. This I can. Think of in our class so far is when we very very briefly touched. And animism, and this idea of everything having a resident spirit, which I think to anyone that's at all familiar with primitive peoples nose, is a fundamental part of the primitive worldview, and she sort of stopped that dwelling on this would be retreating to a 1970s idealism or something, and . I think that these people you either Nor, or minimize qualitative differences between us and primitive societies. And if you don't, then you're you're an idealist projecting your paradise. Onto the past. And the reason I really think that the scientific community is so uncomfortable within the religious realm is that it because if it's true that these people lived in such an epistemologically different ways. If then the methods the methods they use which assign this fragmented and rationalistic motivation. To all of primitive. If you become irrelevant or at least what was appropriate, so I don't want to ramble. For too long I guess. My question is, how do we? Sort of, how do we? How do we undermine this sort of toxic notion of objectivity that these scientists are like claim to? How do we fight for the recognition of qualitative differences without being accused of being romantic and how do we fight this uncritical amassing of data without being accused of being, ? We're still doing empirical evidence because, . I'm certainly not hostile to evidence.

Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, I think when I think. One very useful thing here. It's so it's so closely related, it seems to me to the whole question of technology, and I think it's getting harder and harder to hide the non neutrality. The non objectivity of the technological choice. It is always value laden, and it sounds like it's the same stuff here. They're trying to pull this thing. Where it's just a neutral reality. Somehow if to talk about efficiency and maximize. Using product Marshall Solens is very brilliant on that. You know he basically was saying if they wanted to be efficient and maximize production they wouldn't be hunter gatherers they would. They would quickly move to private property and domestication and farming and the whole thing which they did end up with after. Quite a battle, but that's you're just transposing their allegiance to this. To this miserable system onto these people who really had no use for it for the longest time. I mean, it's it seems it seems obvious. I mean, that's you. You just wonder how they could talk that crap and make it sound like it's. It’s justified or persuasive.

Speaker 6: And it seems to be gaining steam weirdly. And there's this, the community of anthropologists that want to be increasingly more scientific that see that as being more aligned with the of the future and. And even as it more and. More obviously, projects our own values on. The past that. Has nothing to do with it. But Needless to say, being. In this class is very frustrating.

Speaker 3: Sure, well, they're they have to push this. This the. This the desperate threadbare thing that they peddle and are getting paid to peddle. And I just don't think it's. It's not tenable, It’s really. It's easy to blow it up. Of course. I'm sure it's depressing and frustrating to just get a steady diet of that and they have the power. Of course in their in that setup of obviously so. You know, but you can raise certain points that puncture it pretty much with ease, I think.

Speaker 6: I mean.

Speaker 3: And we gotta move along. Go ahead though.

Speaker 6: Alright, I don't know that's it. I just wanted to raise. That issue I'll call back another. Time thank you Sir.

Speaker 3: It sounds like you've got a very good take on the thing, like I don't know how you could say it any better that your analysis on that it's, but of course that makes it even a little more frustrating too, I suppose.

Speaker 6: I appreciate it. I'll go back to listening now. Thank you guys.

Speaker 4: Thank you Paul.

Speaker 2: All right, well, this comes directly from Paul's question. When we go into talking about the 7th community. OK, they state they issue it to make their stance clear and a direct quote from them is. This the only viable way for radical critiques to emerge in the public light that Paul. It sounds like Paul's asking how how do you get radical critiques in the anthropology? Field in the academic setting to a certain extent.

Speaker 3: Well, especially when the one he describes. It sounds like that is even more barren and closed off to these other debates than. Then I would have guessed. I mean that they were that they're that extreme in terms of what he's describing, at least with Shawn Young and all these others. This ongoing battle and it should be, we should be discussing this. You know all the time It’s not a closed book. But at least you're starting from some social reality. It maybe a little less than. Whereas he's describing a situation that's just imposed this fantastic. Non reality on the on the whole course.

Speaker 2: All right, well the ITS certainly certainly states straight out what how they think they.

Speaker 3: Well, what they're willing to do.

Speaker 2: What they're willing to do.

Speaker 3: Were both saying it. It seemed a little. Surprising that there wasn't more in terms of responses we're Speaking of. Workisnews.org it was posted there yesterday, yes?

Speaker 2: Posted there yesterday and then today. I believe the format for was changed on anarchistnews.org so maybe my looking at the site or maybe I don't know what's happening to the comments. Let me put in two. It's that I find the work that was put into the site to change it questionable.

Speaker 4: Ha ha ha.

Speaker 2: I like the straight forward way to go with it before, but certainly that it just was published yesterday, certainly. The final on this. The reason they can't they come through, I did very close reading. Went through all theses and at the end they announced that they took out where the took out. The researcher on nanotechnology. February, February 11th. There's something so certainly all this hot off the press. This an old news like the interview. With Raul was.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it goes back to well. This was issued in the fall and then translated. I think it was last September. You know there was one reply though. I have to admit I.

Speaker 4: I mean I.

Speaker 3: As with the writings of Kaczynski, namely industrial society and its future, I think all of that is very valid. That 30,000 word analysis. And so these people understand the monstrous trajectory of technology and have made it their. Target, but somebody wrote in. I think it's anonymous, but they point out they drew attention to the part where it says we're not interested in quote. Waking up. Waking people up in society to decide to attack the system, nor they're not interested in changing what others think. And nothing like this intended. And . I've read that and I think well. What then, is the point you're willing to kill people, but you don't even have. You either you don't see anything changing or you don't want it to change. I mean, frankly, I'm just I'm rather befuddled by that, and it makes me think quite frankly, the complete isolation of Ted Kaczynski and they’re pretty much word for word. Kaczynski and I'm not saying that's bad, I just as I just, stuck in it. I think that the. That's quite a very good treatise, but. You know, I, I just don't quite get it, I’m I'm confessing my I mean what you don't want you don't want nothing to change then are you just are you just posing as some niche and ubermensch you can go and, carry out these attacks and for no they are they are a target they are. A legitimate target let's we could. We could agree to that in general terms, without getting into all the tactical questions. But if you don't want anything to happen from that. I'm just a little in the dark and I'm sure other people could fill that in and express that. Possibly to my satisfaction. I'm just in the dark.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, I think they're trying. They're making their stance clear, and their stance is that what we have with civilization is going to. That the planet will be done in OK and the plan at one point they give the two options one. It's going to be done in by a meteor wild nature and they hope that's the way it happens, because then something will be recoverable or it will be done. And by Homosalate Piens attack on nature and techno industrial society.

Speaker 3: OK, so they are not ruling out the change that they profess to be indifferent to then, right?

Speaker 2: Right, I don't think they're. I don't think they're professing any indifference, I think.

Speaker 3: Well, they just I just quoted it. They we have no interest in the people changing their minds and deciding to attack the system.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 3: Well if they don't, if they don't attack the system, it's going to. It's going to remain. Right, I mean that seems to be obvious.

Speaker 2: Well, I I can't find it here right now, but I think they make clear that the organizations and especially the leftist organizations who are promoting programs they want. No part of.

Speaker 3: Right, right?

Speaker 2: But I seem to recall my sense. Because they're saying, look, this what we're doing. We're doing this and it's only us and we're doing it and for ourselves. And we don't know what thell's going to happen in the long run, but we're doing this. As we want. To be clear to other people who we are and why we're doing it so.

Speaker 3: That sounds good. That sounds like thank you that's a lucid thing. Well, let's should we take a quick break? We're a little past just a quickie. And then. We'll get back to.

Speaker 2: OK, and hopefully we'll get back with some calls on the communique or the topics.

Speaker 3: Good yeah.

Speaker 5: And under the thousand below. I'll hold it in a snowy shroud. She had no heart so harder. Launder the bouzan ball. Each feather it fell from the skin. To threaten. Baron and she grows in. How were? My eyes so blinded. Each fell and I will hang my hang my head low. I will hang my head, hang my head low. The grey sky with bitter skin. Whose reign horizon sky? Better ski. And I will hang my head, hang my head low. And I will. Hello and I will hang hang my head. And I will.

Speaker 3: I'm going to try to squeeze in a whole lot of things here. We've got another 20 minutes at least. And just to maybe walk it through some of the news I, yesterday it's a big story about the Obamadministration and their brain activity map. They want to spend. Several billion dollars on that over the next 10 years. And it just. It just made me think of the whole techno thing. Once again the where? They're they're presenting it as well. We could have all. These secrets to disease. To confronting diseases and artificial intelligence enters the picture and I noticed that one of the spokespeople said it's to find out about. It's to learn about how the brain processes information. And I thought of some of these people that I ran across when I was writing that consciousness. People thing the brain isn't an information processor. The brain is. Nothing like a computer. The computer is nothing like a brain, but you get this, you get this. You squeeze these things. Together, and if only we can have the right. Approach to it we can crack these things and move on to artificial intelligence which is there nowhere with that actually. And so more billions on the on the pursuit of all these techno dreams. Anyway, there's a new. This was last Wednesday a new medal to honor drone pilots and computer experts. Yeah this the 1st combat medal you get from sitting in front of your video game type console in Nebraskand obliterating people and the other side of the planet. Par for the course. In the techno world it is just a simple headline from the weekend US facing fire as it quits Afghan posts with fear that war gains may be lost. See that couldn't happen. It couldn't happen in Iraq either and you with the Invisible War women in the military are far more likely to be raped by servicemen than to be killed by the enemy. And I just one more thing on the enormous and the latest cruise ship disaster this carnival triumph. Cruise ship that was adrift in the Gulf of Mexico for five days, and. And all of the all of the rigors, shall we say, to be euphemistic about, and I. Guess there's you could maybe? Find a lot of different stories, some of them conflicting, but one thing I noticed some of the people were talking about how everybody's door was open and people would come into each other's unto each other's balcony. They didn't close the doors, they slept together on the decks and everything. And I was thinking. about the gun thing. You've got to have firearms because somebody might come in your door. You got to blow them away. Well, they were here. They were stuck on the ship. They were vulnerable and yet it sounded like rather the opposite were happening. They're talking about making life long. Well, that’s actually what happens in these disasters. These blackouts and so forth. Not this other.

Speaker 2: But that's not the story they want told. You know that rather should be. We should all be defending ourselves in their little underground shelters with their own MRE's

Speaker 3: Afraid of each other.

Speaker 2: On staff .

Speaker 3: Yeah, but instead you got some spontaneous community and very ugly circumstances. You know you wouldn't be in a very good humor with. With the human sewage floating down, running down the walls and you can't even breathe. So anyway, the Commission's most contaminated nuclear site, which is north of US, aways Hanford Nuclear Reservation of Washington, is leaking. And we got the coal miners who died in Russiand the Philippines this past week. And just this afternoon, a natural gas pipe blew up in. Kansas City Another one of those two and more. This just the same story here, but global TB fight hits a wall. India's new strategy actually makes disease more drug resistant. The drug resistance to drug technology is just a constant theme. Of the 31,672 gun deaths in America in 2010, sixty 1% were suicides. This according to Greg Pallas, the real killer is despair that sums it up. And published today. Today's Journal of the American Medical Association. Drug overdose deaths rose for the 11th straight year. A big problem has gotten much worse quickly. Said Doctor Thomas Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And this how this how paced the illegal drugs we're talking about Oxycontin Vicodin much more death because of that in New York City, drug overdose fatalities tripled from 1990 to 2006, and the most recent thing again prescription. Drugs and let's see, oh millennials are the most stressed out generation. According to a study by Harris Interactive, this. Via this an American Psychological Association thing. Stress levels had increased. And we don't have time to get. But oh, this another. This another thing that bobs up if you pardon the pun from time to time. This study about fish and drug tainted water we've known for a while that there's all this unmetabolized pharmaceutical drugs in the drinking water you can't water treatment doesn't. Care that so now what they've studied. This a Swedish study that just came out last Friday. These Swedish researchers are alarmed because it makes fish go crazy, and we're talking about this anti anxiety, drugs and so forth. Very small, like 2 parts per billion or something, but it's enough to mess up these. The balance, the and create all. Kinds of odd behavior. In fish, as if they're taking a lot of drugs, I mean this the massive nature of this problem is seen everywhere. It's that's one of the. You know, Oh well, it's just a. It's just drugs, flushed it down, the toilet or whatever, or just in your normal elimination stuff, . It doesn't it, and this one that stood out to me. This about elderly people in Koreand South Korea. The big rise in suicide. This from yesterday's New York Times. South Korea's elderly are increasingly turning to suicide. It's one of the highest among highest in the developed world. This also the most wired country in the world. And as we get more isolation, and this the place where they are really pioneering the use of robots for old people, interact with the robot. So how's that working out? It just becomes more empty and bereft. And of course, today's murder suicide earlier this morning in Orange County, Tustin, CA. Suburb 4 dead. Guy went on a carjacking spree, shot four people, three of them failed and then killed himself. OK, that was the news whoa. So should we go into another? Piece of writing. Did we have something else we? Were going to.

Speaker 2: Do we have said, well we didn't?

Speaker 3: Plow into.

Speaker 2: Yeah we didn't hit the we didn't hit the situationist document. That came out or what that was about.

Speaker 3: Well, a bit well, I'll tell you briefly what I thought and this was something that came out in 2009. This another one, a little bit of a time lag.

Speaker 5: Right?

Speaker 3: There I always like what Raul Vegam has written since the 60s. I mean, here's book treatise on living for the use of the young, which is called in a clumsy title, the revolution of everyday life, in English. That's in fact, there's a new addition out. That's in the Public Library today. Yeah, It’s. It's quite a book, but one thing I notice, it's still the 60s for him. I mean, he's still he and this I'm not saying it's invalid to talk about the market and the commodity system and the economics of it. If in broadest terms capital. But he doesn't yet have caught on to the rest of the picture. I don't think I would have. To say that.

Speaker 2: That's that was my take to read it in context of the. ITS document, it just seemed there was a certain naivety. It seems like it was a transitional. There was a transition there and it was moving from. Marxist Leninist Maoist indoctrinated heavy duty era era too. New theory really and new new value, but it sure seemed rather naive and so I mean he taught. I think his program was social networks or.

Speaker 4: You're limited.

Speaker 3: You know? Well, I don't want to take up a. This too bad. We could use two or three hours and I like the way you tie these pieces together. It occurred to me I'm just going to mention I'd like to just mention a couple of. High points from the Action News and maybe catch up on it next week. Because there's some really tasty things going on. It's always good to. Keep that in mind and I wanted to, well, I'm not going to even go into it too much, but the I was saying before KGW TV, the Portland I think it's ABC TV up in Portland came down. They wanted to talk about why the government is going after anarchists, and I thought that was interesting that they were picking up on that and we're more interested in that. And the anarchist thing and the repression. And they already had some ideas. In other words, the banks that are attacked ATM machines wrecked and also. So this one these these people knew about this one. This was posted last week. In the opening weeks of February, we have removed and destroyed 17 security cameras throughout the Puget Sound region. This act is concrete sabotage against the system of surveillance and control. Also, message of solidarity and wish of strength to the Seattle grand jury resistors. This act announces our participant patient in the game of camo over called for by comrades in Germany. They apparently started that in Berlin, going onto the subway trains and wrecking the surveillance cameras, sign Barefoot bandit Brigade, Puget Sound, USA.

Speaker 2: Oh, and Speaking of that, we should make note that Seattle actually. He was given a complementary, I think 4 cities or something got their own little police force. Got the drone program to use experimentally and Seattle all in the last month. I think rejected it. They opted out.

Speaker 3: Ah, OK. Yeah, that's the. That's a good sign. They're they're reading the tea leaves correctly. Well, here's here's one more. This from Wisconsin terms of action stuff, just to just to sneak in another inspiring thing. The Wisconsin Manufacturers and commerce. This a. Well, it's a lobbying firm for these types of industrial and commercial activities. And this from where is it in? Well so last Wednesday is the point. There is also there was, I guess, for awhile now annual day of action against the WMC because they're the bad guys there. It's like Alec, I guess they're. They're these corporators, and so people turn out and have and have some type of. Protest as expected. The day of action against WMC started out with the usual leftist circus. Professional activists did their routine speeches and unenthusiastic chants and sang a few labor union songs in their censored version free of the confrontational versus those union songs. Once had, they chanted for fair elections. You know, et cetera. Anyway, this. They actually some people here. Because of this, we knew we had to do something else and they did. They took off and did some wreckage. Nearby and put up their own alternative to the same dreary thing which which has done nothing to stop this industrial development. This the Lake Superior region and all of the all of the nasty effects this having. On the Ojibway and everybody else. More factories, more pipelines, more sprawling concrete highways. And they did damage there. They're not interested in these in begging for reforms. So we descended on WMC's, arrogant, enormous office, lobbed several paint bombs. And messed up. They're extremely stupid. Corporate artwork through projectiles through their windows and the glass door broke a light, disabled two security cameras, and then scattered into the darkness of the night. Solidarity means attack. Hey Wisconsin yes. It isn't just the Pacific Northwest, it's so completely cool. Anyway, when you good.

Speaker 2: Anyway, no, I'm still. I'm still here. Looking at looking at what the ITS was saying.

Speaker 3: Let's go back to that.

Speaker 2: So let's go back to that. I don't know there's a train of thought here that I can't put as a single sentence, but it had had to do something with.

Speaker 4: Let's say you were.

Speaker 2: Talking about the surveillance cameras and surveillance cameras and drones. You know, tie into what's entered into our modern society and the IT is very much they they identified the techno and dust. Techno industrial system, right is how they phrase it. TIAS techno industrial system that it is seeking total domination total domination is what the problem is and at some point in the document they said something about.

Speaker 3: You think so.

Speaker 2: Well, look at Jack London call of the wild. You know that explain. Things explains things so the thought occurred to me that the whole Jack London call of the wild is about the top predator, right? Buck is the top predator, and now in our techno Industrial society where man has become even a man. Is pretty much top predator becoming very much the top predator of all of args of the existence of the planet and. But when you put in the complex society and the technological aspect then. Isn't there a danger we're getting into now where the whole rather than man alone? We're getting into the machine man's extensions, man's prosthetic thing. We developed these machines. We developed these drones this then perhaps perhaps really what we're looking at is the top. Predator of the technology of the machine. And so I just thought I'd I'd throw that out that that there's a. There's a link in total domination.

Speaker 3: Right, right?

Speaker 2: To the technology not being really a tool of man, but becoming through Obama's program and mapping the humand this and that thing the whole doctor to echo Mr. High Frankenstein situation.

Speaker 3: Well, that sounds really up to me. It sounds like that. That would be at theart of their analysis, and I notice someone did not care for the call of the wild thing and. When they say. Wild Nature, I guess that is when they say wild nature, they have in mind that it's not just to warm and fuzzy and cuddly nature, and that's certainly what Jacqueline was talking about in. And not just in that book, but. You know that's a reminder they and they didn't discuss the book in the communique but and how different it is to these systems to this whole. Enormous complex that is, it doesn't have a face. You're not. You're not coming to grips with it as you were with the wolf or something. You know, It’s anyway I think quite right about that. Ohh well, Carl says we're done it's.

Speaker 4: My fault, OK, always good. My girl well.

Speaker 3: Thanks so much for coming, Catherine. Super come come join us next week, Carl. And Cook and I will be here.

02-12-2013

[audio]

"Even cops hate cops"- the Chris Dorner story. Goodbye, moose and caribou. Cruise ship fiasco, corruption news, collapse forecast. Action reports, one (very informative) call.

02-05-2013

[audio]

US: killer state, Israel ugliness, corruption of mass sports. Dissection of Adbusters. Lots of Resistance. App 'life,' DNAs data storage. Dung beetle guided by Milky Way!

01-29-2013

[audio]

Me and Karl. Black Bloc in Egypt! My 8 days in Arizona, global follies, action jackson, techno-bizarro, ads of the week.

01-22-2013

[audio]

Jimmy's excellent musico-political odyssey. (He does a mostly punk KWVA show called 'Songs of Love Song' Monday evenings at 10.)

01-15-2013

[audio]

Kathan here. Alice pinch hits for John. Collapse on all fronts, mounting techno-idiocy. Unschooling. Can intimate communities still be foundâyes! Action news provides some examples. Two calls.

01-08-2013

[audio]

Disaster news, including techno 'advances.' Action news. 30 minutes with FIFTH ESTATE editor Peter Werbe by phone.

01-01-2013

[audio]

More on shootings, general madness news. Syndrome E, action reports. Tiqqun's Theory of the Young Girl. Great (insane) ads. One call.

Speaker 1: Well, it's 2013 Colonel Meyer. Back with you. I've been here since the 18th. It is 2013, yes indeed, and we're going to. explore, not necessarily just in this broadcast, but what did we see in 2012 and what is the likelihood of something different or more the same? In 2013, yeah, two weeks ago, by the way, there were. I just checked this afternoon two or no 469 downloads. At my web. Website For the December 18th show. It's nice. Been doing this show for. 12 years now and real heartening that. That some people are listening and some people take the trouble to get in touch. They'll send me news things or comments. And as Carl said, 5413460645. If you want to call tonight back on the 18th 2 weeks ago when Catherine's here 5 call. They were sharp, succinct calls and. Is real satisfied with that with only an hour there was a lot exchanged? I think next week, January 8th Peter Wilby. I think we might call him a senior editor of 5th Estate, which has been around since the 70s out of Detroit. That dead scene goes way back and really has a lot of highlights to it, and Peter's still around. He's in Detroit. He wants to talk about the brand new issue and I think the 50 state. Project I hope as well, Kathy will be back in two weeks. She was here last two weeks she. And very. Grateful she takes the time and trouble to come down here. For the hours. Show about once a month. We'll see maybe just a little bit more on the shootings thing. Not necessarily, but. I think we got into that quite a lot last week and certainly more to say about it. If anybody wants to jump in on that. Please feel free one of the main couple of things. It seems to come down to and we get into this a bit definitely, but guns and mental illness, guns or mental illness. Somehow overlooking, generally speaking, that they've always been guns. Always been mental illness, but they didn't issue forth into mass unexplained shooting rampages. And I think, well, one of the file under shallow answers or ridiculous answers. A couple of other entries. For the explanation, what is genes? It's genetic and that's just laughable. In fact it was roundly laughed at. I'm not even going to cite the. The main thing on that I saw another local. Nominee here in Eugene might be expected in this. And testosterone, it's a function of testosterone, but. It's rather well known that testosterone levels have been dropping for decades now, and even if they weren't, how would that? How would that cause people to kill each other in large numbers? I mean it didn't. Anyway it's it just seems. The quest for stupid answers continues, and what do you think there's all this Cialis and Viagrand the low sperm count and everything else that we already know about. It's not the testosterone is out of control. I don't think well anyway continuing that just for a minute was this somewhat good article in New York Times on December 23rd by Andrew Solomon. At least he touched on the. Suicide part of it, and these are generally murder suicides. They end in the suicide of the shooter they talked about that and the. The tide of despair we need to begin by stemming despair, although he doesn't have much to. Offer in terms of how we do that I've, sometimes I've gotten real frustrated with this, but there have been some good letters and locally in the Eugene Register guard. One Gary Baron Said it's intimately connected to the larger culture the shootings. And so, at least he teaches that. And then another one, Ryan Brown, also from Eugene. Talking about. The alternative of more guns or more gun control. It points out that neither has worked. Maybe instead of looking at guns we need to look at how we interact with people. How people or families and so forth spend less time with each other and a real. Marvelous letter that was in last Friday's Baltimore Sun. A friend sent this art Rosen art Rosenbaum, who is a family and couples therapist and who teaches at the University of Maryland School of Social Work. It really this very. Excellent, I think talking about it takes more than gun. I'm just quickly going to hit some of the highlights. It takes more than guns to produce the increased frequency of mass killings. And he goes to on to discuss how we're increasingly disconnected from one another. Face to face interaction ebbs. We work longer hours and spend less time with our families and friends. And thanks to our devices we are never truly away from work. And he finishes up. This trend towards social isolation and atomization has dire consequences. Healthier people will simply have relationships characterize. By less intimacy, but for those who are already vulnerable and who may be predisposed to engage in destructive behaviors, there is a greater risk that they will turn further inward while those around them fail to notice the change. To truly honor the lives lost at Newtown, we need to call time out for a serious. Reevaluation of. What has brought us to this point and where we are going? We are in a cultural state of emergency and we must change direction. We do believe some people. Are engaging with the deeper reality here I think. And by the way. These these enormous ones are tender. Grabbed the mediattention, generally speaking, but. On the 21st last Friday was the end. Of the world. It was the end of the world for four people in rural Pennsylvania shooting along a country Rd left four people dead, including the gunmand three state troopers injured. No explanation and one other one that was in the news to some degree. Well, a little more in the news than that one anyway. Last Monday the 24th. So we could go yesterday the fireman. Killed the three dead, including the shooter, but two firemen. Responding to a fire that was set in suburban Rochester, NY way out West in New York State. Set a house and a car ablaze in his neighborhood to lure firefighters and then opened fire. And then committed suicide. OK, we want us some more general news. The pile up service only strictly. Every winter there are pile ups. There's fog. There are bad conditions, icy roads, and then,, . Multiple collision thing can happen. Seems like lots more of that. I don't know whether they. Just report, report it more for some reason but. The bodies pile up and. And so do the other species, by the way, not, not because of that type of traffic thing, but. And according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, estimated 25,580 Americans were killed in motor vehicle crashes during the first nine months of 2012. About 1700 more than died during the same nine month period, the year before. Speaking of that thing and pile UPS, how about runaway cars? The this? Long running Toyota recall. Over complaints of unintended acceleration. To put it to euphemistically. Motor Company agreed to pay about 1.1 billion. Dollars in compensation is about it. It was last week. Writing something that continues right on into 2013 evidently will a few things be on Friday last Friday. The 28th Congress gave final final approval. On the legislation, which extends the earlier law. Giving the government power to intercept. Emails and the like. With no civil liberties protection. This something that Obama. Squawked about a lot when he was a senator, but now. Push that through the same old thing. And it was reported last Thursday. Israel pushed ahead with aggressive new settlement building. Many decades we've been hearing that. Reported today at least three dozen people were killed in a string of attacks yesterday across Iraq. Bloody into a year of rising ethnic, political and sectarian troubles. That showed little signs of easing. That's the same old. That murderous project? Coming to not just like Afghanistan in 2012. Well, we saw that Occupy was toothless and was a flop. And to me one of. The cardinal aspects of that. I would say the cardinal aspect of that was the failure to move to deoksugung. The left is still in the saddle. In this case, the mild, slightly reformist left, but that's. With its other leftist allies, was able to block that everywhere. I'm not even aware of 1 Occupy. Project that became decouper. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I'm not aware if there is one. And over the weekend. Thousands were submerged in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta. It's a flood prone region, but this far worse than they were prepared for. Beyond anything they had prepared for. Yeah, this the. This the rising tide not to make a pun out of. Global warming and. New Delhi Journal reports that incredible smog in New Delhi. The capital, northern India, despite measures to improve air quality pollution is steadily worsening, worsening here without any simple solutions insight. And China part of their. Voracious hunger for energy minerals. Food security and so forth. Now the world seas are at risk. The reach of a massive Chinese fleet is cutting into the remaining fish stocks. Around the world. That's what happens when you have massive industrialization. The insane drive to mass society and I will, but I'm sure there will be a solution. One is Kirk Johnson writes about his startups. He's a gold rush among the stars, namely planetary resources. Which is a corporation intending to mine an asteroid near Earth. Within a decade to start mining in the asteroid belt. And they are showing all kinds of plans and drawings and so forth. Planetary resources based in Seattle. Yeah, plunder the other the rest of the Galaxy. The rest of the solar system, and then the rest of the rest of the Galaxy, I suppose. Any brand new research? Disclosure suggests that Western Arctic has warmed much more than scientists have thought. This so repetitive. But it's just from last Monday. Roughly twice as much as signed as previously thought, and three times the overall rate of global warming. Making it one of the fastest warming regions on Earth. That's western. An Arctic. Let's see, oh, and the drought. The drought causing shipping on the Mississippi very close to just to shut down there. One of the world's largest navigable inland waterways. In grave danger of stopping and. Everywhere trees are dying. This from the New York Times. Last week the boreal forests of Canadand Russiare being devoured by beetles. Drought tolerant Pines are disappearing in Greece in North Africat the Cedars are shriveling wet and dry. Tropical forests in Asiare collapsing. Australian eucalyptus forests are burning and it's predicted that trees in the American SW may be gone by the end of this. Century an astonishing transformation according to. The latest science. Oh jeez. Well, I've got a little more of it. Let's let's find something outside of all that and the 5413460645. And a lot of very wild technology stuff, which often they don't end up getting around to, but including some ads. And comments and so forth. But and this will probably take us right up to the music break when it catch up on Action News, were so busy on the 18th. Kevin and I. Over here and Carl on the phones and so forth, we didn't even do any Action News, which is rare and regrettable. Catching up on that and some of this, as usual, it isn't reported until it wasn't reported until this. Current week anyway. During the month of November, looking back a little ways. Over 100 luxury cars were arsoned. That's a verb. I love that arsenin. That's cool. I didn't know that. In 6 Buenos Aires. Neighborhoods affluent. Neighborhoods and a group called Friends of the Earth, which is part of the informal Anarchist Federation. Burning cars on Saturday, December 8th and Sunday on the 9th. And part of their communique reads we are going to do everything possible so that your cars banks that they address to their anyways across the ruler so that your cars, banks, political stations and yourselves are reached by our fire OK? On Friday, November 14th. Near the University of Santiago in Chile. A group. Proceeded to block traffic, then approached the enormous Christmas tree there in that public place. During approximately 20 Molotov cocktails at it, with the intention of completely incinerating it. And I guess they succeeded pretty much and they too have a wild communique. Yesterday is a failure. Tomorrow a mystery. Today a gift death to anarchism. Long live. M ****** anarchy and I salute the distinction there not a closed system but a free and open questioning something or another. We are for the destruction of the established and for the assassination of all authority. They list they've quite a little list. Including to our internal city to all the cities of the World fire arts and dynamite for them. For all of it. Yeah, and they're. They're doing something about it. We are born and raised as robots. Today we decided to be individuals. So went for the giant Christmas tree in the commercial center. Of Santiago, Chile. Posted on December 18th, but a little bit previous to this in Brussels, VincIs a big old transnational corporation from the uranium mines to the detention centers, passing the reconfiguration of every district of our lives. There's 1000 reasons to attack them. And so lately in Brussels. Belgium the construction engines. Of a eurovia side invinci were sabotaged solidarity with the individuals and struggle. On the ZAD, that's the huge airport. Project in northern. France and the conspiracy of cells of fire. Announces we are Luddites palpating with the Earth and they placed an incendiary device. Under a police car, I think this Mexico. But it didn't go off. It is important to communicate our mistakes just as successful attacks are communicated, because these can serve as a method of development. They certainly have achieved a few other things. And they these are very. I thought this quite poetic. Solidarity statement which reads in parts these these. This addressed to imprisoned anarchists in various countries. We hope to see you away from prison and we name you the nightbirds altogether in sheltered by. We will savor the spectacle offered by millions of sparks burning showers of stars that explode and light up our eyes. Pretty lyrical. And on Thursday the 20th, and this was quite widespread. This particular thing I have here. Is only about one of them. The city of Berosh, Argentina. The Argentine Government has sent hundreds of troops to the southern city after a spate of loop. At least three supermarkets down there. And this a resort. A ski resort city were targeted. Dozens of people meeting with their faces covered, broken in supermarkets. And still all and sundry, it wasn't just in Burrell, just about a week ago. Several incidents like that and back to Chile's barricades and clashes at the University of Santiago. This was a quick hit and run thing about 15 people. Set up barricades, paralyzing traffic shouting slogans. Yeah they had about 100 Molotovs and when they ran out of Molotovs they disappeared. The armed forces have capital made themselves present. And we received by a coordinated range of Molotovs. The combat went on for more than 40 minutes. And the combatants left. A lot of street fighting like that. In Chile is, I think. OK, and. And John said poor India. Nine people were injured, including civil security guards, and this a clash between. Casual labor is contract laborers and they're called and security guards at Tata Steel. Tata is the enormous corporate holding. They have universities, car, plants and everything else india. The company make a Long story short, the company ordered them to take company buses. Instead of riding their bicycles to and from Denny, right, is it no and they didn't think that all? Three of the guards were wounded when laborers threw stones. So I don't know where this now, but yeah, they were. They were with Carl, they were. We're done with their. Bicycles, and let's see. There's a little getting back to some more local stuff. Last Christmas, last week, on the 25th in Berkeley. We glued the locks on all four doors and all the slots on the two ATM. Devices at A/B of A. And right in the world, warriors stay silent and that's in solidarity with their three grand jury resistors. Up in Washington state. And the next day. Wednesday the 26th. Over 1000 tea workers in the Indian state of Assam. Gathered outside the home of the plantation, owner had known for. Exploiting even killing workers, they set his house on fire in his cars. We're set alight. They've had enough and posted on the 27th, but it's probably happened last Wednesday the 26th. Roughly a dozen luxury vehicles in the Milwaukee suburbs had their tires slashed. And cheers to the grand jury resistors Maddie, Katie and Matt. Give them their names. And so, in Bloomington, new Indiana. In solidarity, type attack solidarity with our jury resistors. On the 26th. The let's see the smashed bank ATM and shattered windows at a downtown private security company convey our solidarity. And show their contempt we have for a world that would. Jail us. And a great big. Graffiti attack in solidarity. With the same folks, yes indeed, across the country. You know, overnight. Graffiti campaign there in Cleveland Friday. The 29th and yesterday. About 70 immigrant squatters and protesters. Stormed the Vatican Embassy in Paris to protest the eviction of squatters from an empty church in Lille. That's northeastern France. And some of these squatters are now on hunger strike. Yeah, they. Then being considered every Christian to boot these people. Into the cold. The church was empty and last night in New Year's Eve played. This quite a thing in. Vancouver in the past week, a number of fur stores. Were attacked and one of them. This pretty cool. This I think announced us today. We learned this morning that individuals went to the front of the store. This spizer furs in Vancouver, BC to glue the locks and paste up leaflets. While were at the back of the store using hypodermic needles to shoot a foul acidic substance into the store through cracks in the door. And they've been doing that a lot. It just it just rots. It just destroys the furs. It's some foul stuff that is very important. Very important. So that's. I don't know for some reason. This what they get for boldly displaying the abused carcasses of fur bearing animals in their windows and a bunch of very strong noise demos I've been hearing last night. New Year's Eve from Durham, NC to New York to Seattle. And there was an end of the World Noise Demo in Atlanta, which was also pretty large and spirited. End of the world at the end. Of the and what? We sometimes what I feel sometimes to get specifics on. The indigenous resistance in Brazil in Chile. In fact, in this hemisphere, from Chile to Canada. In fighting the oil pipelines and the mine. These hideous mining and dam mega dam projects. That's where it's really going on. That's the as it's been going on for so very long. And I hope to get. Hope to catch up on that too. Meanwhile here Eugene Free school. Their winter calendar is out and you can just go to. Eugenefreeschool.com and find out what they're offering is still around Earth first is sent out. A message what they would like to be doing in this current year. They are up against it in terms of support. They're down there in Lake Worth, FL now and have been in the past few years. You can check that out, see what they're doing, see the new issue, and you may want to help. And oh, just one or two other things here. Here is the alternative in many ways. The Sheffield anarchist bookfair Is has been. And they've announced it's not going to happen until May this next upcoming May. Their next book fair. And they announced they didn't say a whole lot about where they're coming from. What's on offer because it's only early January. How could they? But they said. The aim at deepening our understanding of anarchist communism, historical materialism, and critical questions for resistance to austerity. In the UK, which. Well, if that's it's that better not be the future. Of anarchy, in my view, if knowing this old line. moldering. That's the old stuff you think. Isn't it time for them to get off the stage and for real resistance to happen they have these same old clunky stuff that goes nowhere but they have those in some places have a stranglehold. And if that obtains we're screwed. Simple as that. We're going nowhere. Meanwhile, alternative libertaire, and then we'll have a music break here in a SEC. It's just published a piece about industrial fishing and it's fine. It's informative. It’s not totally in depth, but it's fine. But it what it strikes me is these are the same left wingers who've been in love with industrialism from the get go. So now what are they suddenly agreeing without wanting you to notice the? Sell game and volunteer. I mean, I'm not complaining that they're pointing out the horrible toll of industrial fishing. Which is horrendous, but they've been a part of it. And if people leave that, that's marvelous. I'm not trying to. Stop that from happening and there are changes. I get one of the things in the mail. There's an Italian publication called Semei Anarchical. And this from the Milano areand It’s pretty standard. It's pretty traditional. Most of this stuff is from the 1900s, but there's a long review here. Of Enrico Medicare's new book Multimo Era the final era. Which is the brand new one following on his freed from Civilization Book which Left Bank or not Left Bank? Little black cart will be putting out in about a month. And so this nice to see several pages and they bring up Marco Cannon. She's another green anarchist. Anti safeguard, nothing nothing traditional there. OK, well I'll just get in one more thing, we'll just slightly delay the music break here. This a little baffling, maybe somebody can help me out. And if anyone wants to weigh in on this one, I haven't seen this yet. I read radical philosophy and I guess it's probably just available now at the Library University Library. Radical philosophy carries a review by Nina Power, of the new book, by Tikun. It's a lengthy review, so we can have something to go on. In lieu of the book, as yet preliminary materials for a theory of the young girl. That's the name of the book and talk about. We know about depression and other states of being the war on our emotional life and so forth. And he talked about the implications of cyberspace and cyber time as well. Here's the first problem, particular economic relations. Well, the economic relations. Are there but cyberspace and cyber time are technological, not economic per say. OK, and so anyway, this this theory of the young girl. It has to do with the depressed mind and body of the contemporary subject, and it's arguing somehow that we're all this young girl that their concept. Everyone is required to be. To permanently self valorize, and I'm not exactly sure what that means, it's that's our opinion of ourselves, our the value we said on ourself. I guess. You know somebody referred all this really is. It frankly reminds me of the thing that came out in the 80s, called my team SoCal. If you might have recall that somebody's signing T period SOKL. It was a postmodern. Take on science, a new. Theory of science. It was a complete fraud, a complete joke, but people fell over each other as oh, how profound. What a contribution. It was a complete joke and somebody called when this was posted. This review was posted at Anarchist News called it Postmodern gobbledygook. I just really. You know all this hyperbole and rhetorical flourishes that these some of these French pump out? I challenge anyone to say. Can you tell? Me one thing you took away from this, it doesn't have to be original, but one insight or contribution. And here's and I'll just give it up here and we'll take this call out. This review refers to one thing where it says the final part of the review. Referring this book. The idea is that unhappiness appears to be all there is, even as everything, shrieks of fulfillment and prickliness shrieks. So fulfilling and perkiness, I don't know what. Planet you in. Good, but. I ain't seen too much fulfillment and perkiness. For example, models from my favorite touchstones. The faces and models, men and women who model clothes have been sullen and blank. You can look at hundreds of them and you don't see a smile, so is that perky you talking about the 1950s maybe? I mean, of course you can crank out rhetoric. It doesn't matter what. But the reality is. Hello, this Kevin from Portland. Kevin yeah hi, how's it going?

Speaker 3: Oh, it's going OK. Better because I like you guys show a lot. 2 things one I just have a reflection when your guys book came out Twilight I think it was called twilight of the Machine. I was real anxious to get it and I. Called Feral House about. It and we just got in a conversation about the book and I said, well, how many do you think you'll publish and he said. Probably about a 5000 run, maybe not so much and I thought is that it my point about that is though, the weird thing about that is because. I think that the. More the standardization of culture and the pooling of the mainstream consumption class gets more and more fierce the more and more the interesting. The guys that are outside of that become more and more interesting and more and more like conscious reflecting creatures that people should listen to. My point is that I think there's and the and the. The people that think similar to him should have a lot bigger audience than. They do so that's my point and I appreciate you guys work my question. Here's the question and then I'll hang up and listen to you guys talk about it some. Or is it's a quote is a quote from the movie The Matrix. You have to understand this Morpheus speaking to Neo. You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many of them are. So inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system. That they will fight to protect. So anyway, that was, I don't know if that was a question, I just thought it was a reflection I want to share and say I really appreciate the novelty and the and the originality from compared to the stale machine culture that your radio show offers every week, even if it is a. Small audience, but.

Speaker 1: Thank you, Kevin. Thank you very much. Well as you OK as you as as you imply, It’s.

Speaker 3: I'll hang up.

Speaker 1: It's a political thing. They there are certain points of view. They ain't too happy to hear about way could swell, has a new book and I bet he will be able to make the rounds he already has on some radio talk shows to push. I'm blanking on the name, but It’s more about the promises of the singularity and artificial intelligence and. It's just going to be a wondrous, brave new world. You know, his usual. Embrace of technology. To construct a mine living, it's called or. How do you construct a mining? It's a brand new book and he comes across as very reasonable, rational, relaxed guy. I mean, he's not. He's not a screaming techno fascist, he's a humanist, techno, fascist, or at least he tries to come up so I’ve come. I've contacted various people. I mean, I've listened to lots of different. Radio shows and I'm asking would it be? Did you ever consider even once having a contrary point of view on this a perspective that isn't in love with this stuff, which I think is it is, I mean, just for laughs. I mean just once. And it's frustrating. I try to keep it very civil and polite because I would like to. Be part of the conversation so not a silly me, but having the contrary point of view, what is the reality of it? What is what is actually happening and more technology we have, all these things. So anyway, good of you to call Kevin. We will take a quick music break and then be back. A very brief bout of Vivaldi. Wanted to mention a novel I just read. This was huge in France. In fact, I think it's an international bestseller. It's a thriller in the murder mystery thing called syndrome E. By funk tillier THILIEZ. Translated from the French, it's really. It reminds me of Oldak that other French novelists, in terms of being. Fairly bleak, and the subtext is technology, although It’s really not. Overtly so, except toward the end where one line is. The main the main one in the book is says that these be her two daughters, the entire planet. She refers to the entire planet that's rushing toward its own genocide, and she's talking about the kids. She wants to stick with, say, physical toys and paper and paste and. That thing and. Not so much on the screen. She says everything was being lost so quickly with technological advances. Just another interesting aspect to this novel, it's although that's not really the topic, but. It's about. It's about evil. It's about violence in the modern world and how. And the threat in various ways of what, when you have again when you have more technology. Does that improve anything or is it actually? Really part of the problem in a. Very horrible way. Get a. E-mail been titrated. His fellow recently, Jimmy from Stockholm. I won't won't mention his last name as usual, but he was. He's been talking about the techno topic and. I'm just going to read part of this. I feel this constant nostalgia for the world as it used to be, and I'm not necessarily talking about the world of a very long time ago either. In parentheses I now feel nostalgic for the world of 2007, just before the smartphones and apps, and think of it. Think of this speed of all this, right? Because at least there is a little bit less of everything and it truly frightens me. Is that there are basically only two possibilities going forward. Other things just continue like this or there's some collapse in one form or another, and either way I'll probably end up feeling nostalgic for the world as it was in 2012 or as hard, though it may be to believe today and this from somebody who hates it. He's he's hating on it. He's not in love with his devices and thinking back to a slightly older model. Or something, but it just reminds one, among other things, how how truly dizzying the pace of all this. Two of them five years ago. Yeah, apps no, they haven't been around forever. You know that's. Oh, and Jose. This a couple of ads here out of many. This ad for the Nexus iPhone shows a little girl and her mother and the. The banner says the playground is open, meaning the screen, obviously of the iPhone. That takes the place of the playground and one this much more graphic. If you see any television, this a television ad from Verizon the 4G Droid DNA iPhone, who gets his arrival to the Apple iPhone 5. And it shows this guy being strapped into this thing and these these having these sort of electrodes implanted in them and it says it's not just an upgrade to your phone, it's. It's an upgrade to your brain. It's an upgrade to yourself. Upgrade your human specs. So yeah, it's just,, you get an infusion. You just. You have the iPhone stuff injected into you in some strange way, and there's these graphic shots that look like neural networks, neurons, and. Double Helix, DNA stuff all blasting away. Like in other words, it really gets to the inner stuff and there's the machine. Cyborg time, right? Well, let's see. Today it was announced that the FDA has approved drugs. For these multidrug resistant tuber tuberculosis. Instances, so anyway, to make a Long story short. The problem has been more technology. That's why they're drug resistant, right? That's that's low nature. So that the solution of course is more technology. It's just the insanity of it just is a remarkable. Everybody can see what is happening. How that doesn't work, it just makes things worse. And he said. You know the book about noise have been some pretty good ones, as obvious as they are discord. The story of noise by Mike Goldsmith, my new book. Although the rising volume of what a racket it is everywhere on the planet pretty much now the same old stuff, it's. I don't know if there's too much new. But here's the dumbbell ending. This a review by Catherine Bouton who quotes. The author, Michael Smith. That said, he hasn't lost hope. We already have the knowledge and the technology to solve the problems of noise. We really can have a quieter tomorrow. If we can work together and build. Wow, that's great. It's just more industry and technology and then it'll be quieter. And we wonder how could could you find somebody who can swallow that something so outrageously crazy. Oh boy, I was reading a new book and this really isn't worth talking about. The book at all, but Richard Wagner brand new book called Mind Society and Human Action, and then I won't get into. What it's about but. I was just. Going along, checking it out and. This something that's right at theart of the problem. It strikes me. Is this sentence on page 8 considers such simple technologies as cell phones or e-mail? As you get that considered such simple technologies as cell phones, or they're simple, are you kidding you? You don't know is all just held in your hand. There's no network, there's no. I think of all the components. I mean, just think for one second and you wouldn't say something that's stupid. Of course it means simple meaning, easy to use. Well, you could say that consider such easy to use technologies as cell phones or e-mail. Even I can use them. That's a simpler, but that's the point. It's not about use. It's about what they are. They're not simple technologies, even if they're simple leaves. I mean it just right there is a very huge error, and that's the general thing. It's all about how they're used. You hear that endlessly. But it isn't about. Just that far from it. Well, here's a here's a piece also today in the business section of the New York Times silencing the smartphone. Some companies see a benefit in switching off and there's tons of these articles. If you take a little break from it, maybe you'll be more refreshed and creative. You know that anybody can say that. They would never question the whole reality of it, but anyway. This piece ends up with. My good friend, Sherry Turkle, a professor of the social studies of science and technology at MIT. Author of Alone Together Way, we expect more from technology and less from each other. Et cetera. You know, as I've said before, she provides a devastating account of the effects of technology. This complete immersion, especially among the young of technology, with reference to her daughter starting with that and they're very good on that and then. Of course you get to the punchline. Quote, I don't use the metaphor of addiction, said Miss Turkle, who's also a psychologist. We're not going to give it up. We shouldn't give it up. It's more like food and being on a digital diet, the question we should ask are what are thealthy choices? I see. High tech is just like food wow the mind reels and it's so preposterous that you can't give up food. You might as well say technology is just like oxygen. You know why? Yeah, that's. Many thanks is good. Good add up. No they don't, and I've got such a stack of stuff here and. Yeah, this one from the Daily Mail, the UK. Paper rocket doors away from gadgets can boost brainpower by half. So we're, take. A look at your garden. And there are tons of these, and if it were just a simple discrete choice and to some degree it is. Otherwise you wouldn't say. Consider a world without this stuff. Well, that would require. The willpower of the conscious agency of people to do that, obviously. But it's about it's about the whole culture. And here's an article about Koroshi. The Japanese word, which means death from overwork, you'll probably run into this before the people who work so such long hours work so hard. In the cities in Japan, this. The most high tech. Place one of them. It's probably one of the three most wired most multi tech places on the planet. If not the number one. So you've got more and more technology and you have people dropping dead. They just work like dogs and you have these other in China. The phenomenon is called guarasci. I think I'm saying that right. Is estimated in 2010 that 600,000 people had been killed this way. 600,000 people. Then they go into Korea, which South Korea is, which is extremely. Wired and. Yeah, the insanity of it. But of course, Ray Kurzweil says and all the rest of them the answer is more of that. More of that. That's that's how we could be that his here's a. This was from the December 19th New York Times, Tom with Thomas Fuller. a long piece months lose relevance as Thailand grows richer as it becomes more consumers more technological. The number of Buddhist monks is disappearing. Consumerism is now the Thai religion. Quoting one of the monks. People to deal with high speed things, he said in an interview. We didn't have instant noodles in the past, but now. People love them. For the sake of presentation we have to change the way we teach Buddhism and make it easy and digestible like instant noodles. Right, the fast food variety of spirituality? Yeah, that’s probably. Pretty authentic, you can get done in department stores or even over the Internet, he said. I’m I'm quoting. One Frau Payson Vicelow, or at least I'm mispronouncing it, I'm sure. They are facing a dramatic transformation. In fact, it's already there. They've how fast this just can erode anything. It doesn't respect anything. And but hey, you can go online and be enlightened that way. Well, I've got to end with something positive here and my friend John sent me this. This from Newsweek. Let's see. Just a just a week ago. I think it was. Where is this, December 24th Newsweek? And it's an excerpt from Jared Diamonds. New book and the several pages excerpt is called how to raise a child. The hunter gather away, hold them, share them, let them run free. Why the traditional way of raising kids is better than ours and. Put together society together. Reading practices don't produce societies of obvious sociopaths. Instead, they produce individuals capable of coping with big challenges while still enjoying. Their lives this from the new one, the world until yesterday, and I have no idea what these strengths and weaknesses of the book. But I think it's good to see this available. That's something that's widely available based on your diamond's long experience. Well, thank you very much. And as I say, Peter Wilby or did I say yes, Peter Wilby will be calling in. You'll be talking to us and talking about Fifth Estate. See you later.

Speaker 2: Our prime with flamingos and waving black hair. Roses so red and lonely so fair. The leader. I will sing in my life shall begin. Heard in this crown I will sway. We're not.

2012

12-18-2012

[audio]

Kathan here. Newtown CT...what are the shooting rampages telling us? (most of the hour) Plus background news and 5 excellent calls from around the country.

Speaker 1: Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. We played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we. Tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: W WBBAWBA 88.

Speaker 3: AWDAUG

Speaker 2: Sup, Sup, Sup Sup Sup.

Speaker 4: Go go go.

Speaker 5: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV radio or the associated students of the university. Of Oregon anarchy. Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 4: To listen to KWVAU gene, it's time for anarchy radio. And there's a John and Catherine in the studio today. Taking your calls at 5413460645. Here's some Philip Glass to get you in the mood.

Speaker 5: Hello there, anarchy radio. For December 18th. We've got some somber stuff to talk about for sure, but it's a joyous thing that Catherine is here.

Speaker 6: Oh well, thank you.

Speaker 5: Hi cousin. Yeah Carl and Catherine myself 5413460645. Corianna skansi The Hopi phrase for life out of balance, and we've sure seen some of that. I think we're going to just. Jump right in. To talk about what happened on Friday, the 28 dead latest bloodbath Newtown CT 20 children each shot between 3 and 11 times. Which is why there weren't too many ambulances leaving. And the shockwave. I think more than usual because of the number of first graders 20. In the carnage. Well today I just need any we could come into this from various angles and talk about the. The reactions, the implications what isn't being said. I notice maybe just for starters. I could. Maybe just mentione of the watchwords here of this type of thing. Seems like one thing is always the same. Today in the New York Times and the front page talking about, well, referring to two of the six year olds who were buried yesterday. With the Y no closer. Or the. Featured op-ed. Piece today in the New York Times. It is, this just it's called the what drives suicidal mass killers. So right there you can tell the focus is just on the individual. And toward the end. This Adam Lankford writes it is tempting to look back at recent history and wonder what's wrong with America, our culture and our policies, but underneath the pain, blah blah blah. In other words, no, we don't want to do that. Let's look at. Let's try to figure out why this. Guy did this. And the same refrain that what I'm getting at is senseless. You hear the word senseless, over and over. The Australian Prime Minister the next day, sending condolences. This a typical comment. She called it this senseless and incomprehensible act of evil. That wraps it up since senseless. In a society with less and less meaning and more and more individuals who feel meaning less. The psychiatrist that’s what's left out if you ask me and Charles Krauthammer, one of the nastier right wing commentators, and a psychiatrist himself, there can be no explanation. You know, that's the refrain, or just a slightly different version of that. They were quoting somebody, a fireman, perhaps I can't remember who in the town in the small. Rural affluent town of Newtown. No one in this town could have imagined this and it comes to me. Why is that? How many times does it have to occur when nobody can imagine this, it's always just senseless, meaningless, no explanation. That's not quite adequate.

Speaker 6: Not quite adequate, and sadly there are just so many angles that need to be discussed about it. I mean, to me it's it seems to be in some ways it's a unique pathology of our society and if you look at I mean I really tried. He distanced myself. From the Clackamas, one was very the Clackamas shooting which two were killed was five days before or something, and the initial reports, whether true or not, were that there was a relationship copycat on. On the second one. So pat explanations. That put out, and then there's a. Ritualistic behavior that, to me, normalizes and accepts it by the society. We there's the media there. There's the wall of flowers there's the just this whole acceptance ritualization of how we deal with this when we should not be dealing with this. This an. Accept this some. There is something going on. There is some trouble here and I think. I avoided the New York Times that. I . Like to me, the horror of it all. The specifics of the young children was overwhelming and just for my mental sanity. The specifics? You know, I want to stay away from but pay attention to and discuss the the uniqueness. In many ways the. I looked at Al Jazeerand as they report. Afghanistan, Karzai expressing sorrow at what happened in the United States. Shortly after that, there's the 10. I believe it was females killed by drones at the same time, so just one to. As we start off this discussion and hopefully get some call INS just the whole way, we categorize who is Dad and who are the victims that on a daily basis or a number, there's. There's a specialness in our society. There's a specialness. That young males of 2022 uniquely will arm themselves. And go after civilians and that's the specialness. That's not that. Some analysisn't given to a nation state that collects taxes and builds drones and goes in and has killed. I think 2000 civilians in the Middle East, and I'm not a numbers person, so anybody can shoot me down. And my numbers, the dead is dead.

Speaker 5: Not exclusively young males, but pretty dominantly there. I think they've been a few very few middle-aged males in terms of some of these shootings, but I think you're right about that. And one thing that what you just said reminds me of the role of Obama with his. Well, there was apparently a fairly strong emotional connection to what he was saying. Severally in the past few days. But Speaking of Germans, who's the biggest killer of children, that would be Obama. And that it I just was appalled by the incredible hypocrisy of it. His entire existence as a public figure is predicated on the denial on no. On going nowhere near this reality and of course, now the whole conversation is about gun control. On the left and the right.

Speaker 6: Right, overwhelmingly overwhelmingly about gun control and. And I say, nobody imagined prior to or very few people have the imagination prior to 2001 to realize that a jet airplane

Speaker 5: And why should that? Be that's.

Speaker 6: Flown into a building became a unique weapon and so it's like there are airplanes. There are ways to use stuff, the guns are around. I remember probably 10-15 maybe 20 years ago at Willamette. Graduation Mark Hatfield talking about the arms race and the proliferation of arms. It wasn't the arms race, it was just the arms of manufacturers and Lonely Planet even has a place you can go and buy whatever rocket launcher, whatever assault rifle. Whatever this stuff is around and isn't going to disappear. It to me that's just a very much a big diversion. Rocks and stones, you can kill people with a lot of things, so get it putting guns only in the hands of the police state. People maybe is not where this discussion should be going, but. I have a very strong suspicion that. Young males are prone to schizophrenic breaks. That's that's the peak age for schizophrenia, and I think pharmaceuticals have side effects, antidepressants and all that of which many of them are homicidal tendencies. They're suicidal, homicidal. Illusions, these things that some of these people who. It's called mental. It's called mental illness. And why aren't we doing something about mental illness, blah blah blah. And the way we treat mental illnesses with drugs and those drugs. I suspect that I've just never seen anything on what's been medication any of these people, or is there any correlation that? To A to a psych break.

Speaker 5: That should be. Looked into, that's there's so prevalent that it becomes a. Quite a reality in itself, although I think it can also be one more way of. Of minimizing this. In other words, this individual apparently was somewhere on the autism disorder spectrum, probably according to what everything's been said so far. Asperger's, which is a mild form of autism, and they were it. This doesn't always fit what they. You know what scenario or script they would like to have? Especially because evidently autistic autistic folks are rarely, they’re among the least violent of people that have any disorder. It's not a mental illness, either. By the way, It’s. It's a neurological development thing. And this guy. I mean how many times have you heard this? And I don't have the source for this, but one of the. It was an endless string of shrinks and psychologists. All those. And nobody's talking about society, no sociologist or social. There is nothing but an endless stream of shrinks. Well, this guy was to just take this particular case here. Friends described as funny and good-natured most of the time. No signs of anything wrong. There was one shryke them and they're useful for something. He said, actually and again. I can't cite the individual or. Or the source of his information, but he said 16% of these shooters have had any signs of mental illness. So there you go. It's it doesn't seem because as I've said this before, how often do? You hear no. Problems no runnings with the cops. No meds, no nothing no. No reason to think that they would be medicated. And then they kill. X number of people so It’s something more evidently even more mystifying, although I'm not saying that, as you point out, when everybody's taking these powerful drugs. You know that in itself becomes a. Part of the equation. We got somebody on the line.

Speaker 4: There is.

Speaker 5: Hello Larry.

Speaker 3: Hi, my name is Kevin. I'm from Portland I called once in a while. I’m your discussion is fascinating. I was thinking about it and I was thinking about what the premise #10 that Derek Jensen. I hate to give him more press than he needs, but one of his premise #10 in the end game is the culture as a whole and most of its members. Are insane. The culture is driven by a death urge, an urge to destroy life. I wonder what you think about that, and I also wonder what you think about people being forced to use synthetic dope that causes neurotoxicity in their brain and causes personality problems. The denial of affect even worse, sometimes autism stuff like that, I'm what's called a psychiatric survivor. I've been chemically damaged by 4. Forced to antipsychotic medication, it's affected my IQ and my functioning level and I have nervous ticks because of it. But anyway, back to the. I want to know what you think about premise #10 that were raising a whole bunch of boys, mostly particularly boys who don't value their own life and see themselves as video game. You know, slag. Most of them. We have a lot of boys out there. Have these worthless ideas themselves and worthless ideas everybody else. So how do we regain this? I think this cultural shift is out of control and we ought to rebuild our local communities. But anyway, I'll hang up and listen to what you guys have to say. So I my favorite radio. Show of all of all. The weekend you guys so enjoy your discussion alright?

Speaker 5: Thank you, yeah, maybe we can trade off comments on this. It's important stuff that was raised. I could weigh in on the 1st part. I think what I'm a little. I'm less than satisfied with Derek's use of the culture he seems to. I mean, It’s true. I think it's valid to point to the culture, but it's I think we can get a little more specific. My view is this mass society in the total technological age. And that's why it has less meaning, less connection, less texture, less value. And then you start as it gets more and more technological. At this stage of mass society, you start seeing things like the most pathological at all of all. I would say is these mass shootings that keep occurring with greater frequency. It's the culture is just very vague that they there's the music culture that what you can. You can get down to the institutional. Basis if you if I mean as far as you might agree with that, that's. There's a reason for this, that the culture, I mean, it's almost as vague as saying that gun culture is too many guns now. There's too many guns. There have always been guns, by the way. Let me just add that there have been guns from the time that they were. You were every adult male, every white adult male that is was required to have a gun for the purpose of the militia. And as I've said before, I grew up in a house full of guns, years and years ago when I was a small kid. There will always been the guns. That's not the thing. It's just not the otherwise we would have had the. Same thing going on then. In the 50s, but we didn't have that. Now we're having it with more regularity, so this gun control thing is really a red herring.

Speaker 6: And I would go, I mean no question that I would. I would like to go back to a couple of weeks ago. You read an essay you wrote about consciousness and to me there is a relationship that maybe we can kick around here and get more clear on, but that there's a relationship of this to what is happening to our consciousness. And I've. You know when I talk about the psychopharmaceuticals, I think between that and technology that they're these. These are two critical new things that whether they're the young males who are schizophrenic prone, apparently at this age period. Or what they? These are new things in society that are are present in America on a very available much more mass level. And so it does seem to me there's a relationship here that the video games which keep get peripherally addressed. And then we're talking about gun gun control. And it's like what is happening to consciousness. We remember 10 years ago. Japan's comic strip was put on television, a cartoon that gave flashing lights and all of a sudden kids are having epileptic fits. You know wiring wiring of the brain? I've got an article here from end of November by not our friend, Kurt Weil Kurtzweil, who was talking about the whole this whole fascination with neuroscience, neurology, the ability to why you should. That build on bionic brains. How to create a mind. The wiring of the brain that's not well understood. To me that the biggest factor is like how that people read and get obsessed by this and trying to understand how could such a horrific thing happen? How do we explain it and? It is like there is a break there, something that you are no longer your consciousness is not being a collective member of a group of children of children that you were once like that yourself or something needing protection, I mean. I can't stress enough that there does seem to be some essential break.

Speaker 5: Right, right and probably existing on various levels. Various triggers if it's as deep seated as I tend to think that it is that It’s really a function of mass society at this stage of its. Advance or whatever you want to call it advance is ironic word I guess. But or and all the other things too like you just cited and the color as well that.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: You it's not so simple. In other words, there are these different things that are part of the rest of it. Just like pollutants and so forth. I mean the. It's all of a piece . In a sense. I mean it, it seems to me that there's this frenzy frenzied assault on the natural world on other species. And the whole 9 yards. Of the of the eco disaster, which is arriving quite fast and now we're actually having this killing frenzy.

Speaker 6: I mean, we unconsciousness. I mean what? What is the life of these people not talking amongst themselves? You're living in a world of relating to. Machine and for young so inclined mayos it's. Relationship to the car theft automobile or what ? Whatever the video game is, but it's this magical synthetic reality where there's no consequences where the violence that's thrown out there is. It has no consequences.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that. Seems to be a. A really good way to put it. And were. I think we. Just a little while ago in passing, we're referring to. The response is. I mean, that's a that's a theme I've been pounding on. I guess. Where are the? What, where? How do we know what questions to ask? In other words, when are we going to look at more things than? Well, there are people that are just mentally ill. They're just insane. And there was one of these columns in the past couple of days. We got a call about. More or less equating these people that snap and kill a lot of people to terrorists, like jihadist type terrorists who? So the question then is well so these terrorists, are they mentally ill too? You'd probably say no, they're not mentally ill unless we also say anybody who would do these things that would kill innocent children, for example, must need mentally ill, but that really doesn't solve anything that OK. But why didn't it used to happen? I mean it, you're still left with the same. You can do the shell game. Well, they're all evil, or they're all mentally ill. And there's guns but all of those things have always been there insofar as they have always been there and you didn't get this phenomenon. Which is it isn't just the personal choice as we as we know it's. It's also It’s that, but it's a social phenomenon.

Speaker 6: And before he takes this call, let's say real quick, I do want us not to get away from that point. The relationship of this or how it feeds into the War on Terror and more of a police state. So in that Clackamas, Clackamas Town Center. So let's take the call.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 7: Hi yeah I just tried the one that on the capitalist thing. I think it's interesting how we focus on the random acts of violence such as these. A lot of attention is given to these mass shootings. While we ignore the whole all the violence that maintains the order of civilization, whether that's eradicating weeds or. Killing off pests or killing off indigenous people or whoever is deemed as being part of the acceptable loss of life. The acceptable victims of progress and civilization. Daily Holocaust, when we focus on stuff like this and it really just shows how detached we are from the constant violence that we have. To have in order for all this to work.

Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that critical point. You last thing detached from the daily violence that it requires for this civilization to. What we call work and I think that detachment is absolutely critical to it.

Speaker 5: It's pretty amazing to me that there actually are people. Probably not very many who say, well, there's if you look at the statistics say this not such a big rising tide of. Of killings it that just seems both ridiculous and monstrous to say that when and you can get away with that if you depending on how you define things or what are your categories. But I think we know what we're talking about here, and just by the way, it reminds me this bobbed up from time to time. This Steven Pinker book last year the better the better. Angels of our nature and he was trying to say I think the bottom line is civilization actually is reduced. It keeps on reducing violence is actually way. Less violence, but referring to what the colleges said, yeah, you can get away with something that crazy if you rule out all kinds of violence. And I mean you the list is almost endless. You know the violence against other species. The violence against nature, the suicide rising tide of suicide. It's now the number 2 killer of young people on and on and on, none of which I'm not even scratching the surface. If you rule out tons of stuff, then you could jury rig a conclusion that. Oh, it's such a peaceful, happy world and nobody's suffering. There's no violence, I mean it, it practically goes that far, and I think it's the guilty conscience of people who are defending the whole civilizational apparatus. They're desperate. Put their finger in the diet and say, Oh no, we're everything's fine, no matter how, remarkably. Off that strikes everyone, I think.

Speaker 7: It ignores, like state inflicted violence on people too. That's that's never taken into consideration. Like the daily drone attacks that are taken against people that are doing countless numbers. And, . And agricultural policies that are, killing off a known amount of animals just because they're being beat, pests or whatever, so.

Speaker 5: Right, right? It’s almost well, it's ludicrous, but possibly it doesn't favor it's. It's like the people that, oh, there's no global warming or, and It’s a you'll find somebody will say that. And for ideological purposes they would all step up and tell us about it, . Let's pretend that's true what you're saying, there . Thanks very much for calling in.

Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.

Speaker 5: Maybe we could take a little music break. Now that's OK.

Speaker 6: Yeah, we should go ahead with that.

Speaker 5: OK, great.

Speaker 8: Leaves have fallen. Around time.

UNKNOWN: On my way.

Speaker 8: Thanks to you I'm much obliged. Such a pleasant stay. But that's time.

UNKNOWN: For me to go.

Speaker 8: Lights my way. But now I smell the rain and wind. And it's headed my way. Sometimes I feel so tired. Got no time for the time has come.

UNKNOWN: To be gone.

Speaker 8: Though I helped me drink 1000 times. Save that can't be. I hold dear. How years ago, in days of old magic. In the darkest depths of Mordor. I met a. Girl crept up and slipped away with her. But Gollum High chair.

Speaker 4: I did, nothing happened.

Speaker 8: I'm gonna.

Speaker 5: We're going to ramble on. OK, we're going to stick in a little news thing, but we I think we will get back to this. Shooting Biz end your calls 5413460645. Well, unless we get 2. Blocked out by this one of these the most horrendous of all shootings. By the way. Early this morning, four people shot to death. At a home just north of Denver, murder, suicide two men and two women. And a bunch of last week's three siblings. Dead in Southern California on Saturday. Gunfire at an Orange County Mall 500 rounds fired nobody. Wounded, three wounded shooter killed at a Birmingham AL Hospital. And again, the point about the about the assault rifles take away the assault rifles and everything's fine well in Chinat the same day as the Connecticut massacre 22 kids and one adult were hurt at. A knife attack in China. This the sporadic. Rampage at. Schools and kindergartens with knives and swords. This. Latest in a string of assaults against schoolchildren in China. Fortunately, no one is dead or. If they all survive, one hopes anyway. And the thing in Iraq. Same old story. Yesterday, wave of bombings killed 25 across Iraq and the West Bank. Same old story. They're stealing more and more land from Palestinians. There was a story today. The Tuesday New York Times, even the dead, have to go. There was a story here about more West Bank land, including. The removal they ordered the. Palestinians to remove a person's remains and burial elsewhere. Zionism marches on, and there is. There was a poll late last. Week it was used to be 73% in 2009. Believe that there's global warming now. It's 80%. That's at least some movement as we count. Registered today it's 333. Consecutive months. That global temperatures have topped the 20th century average 333 months of the high temps, and. Well, I got a whole lot of very gastly. Environmental news I think I will maybe say most of this, but the you might have read about the huge. Whale and the. Sands of Malibu About a week ago and the government wasn't going to do anything giant whales stinking up the place for all those rich folks. Upon the bluff Sir Malibu.

Speaker 6: I didn't hear about that.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it was just rotting away. Well, they said it's probably a victim of a ship. The commercial shipping, industrial shipping and one more story. And this also today in the Science Times section of the New York Times Sound pollution, a growing peril to marine life especially wails the racket. This throwing off the. The way. Whales and others navigate it's so loud underwater it's just part of the whole ensemble of pollution. The story about the two rivers in Sao Paulo. I've seen those two rivers. They're unbelievable, they’re just the most polluted. It's just makes people nauseous who walk by. They ooze along. They're just almost unbelievable. One guy who's made a bit of a study said he goes, he dives, he's protected when he dives in. But he says this sounds crazy, but the rivers are the most peaceful place in Sao Paulo. Death is very peaceful too, right when I drop to their depths it becomes absolutely quiet. It's like I'm in space, pondering a civilization which has pushed itself to the edge of destruction. Or past the edge in terms of those. In terms of those rivers. Caribbean coast of Guatemala is being deforested at a fearful rate. Britain has decided to allow fracking hydraulic fracturing. This happened Friday and a very very big story. About Walmart and its global, the global corruption. How they get these authorizations and permits. It really is something the in here. I mean, this like a four page story, but one was reminded right here in Oregon. There was a one day special. Legislative section session. I mean up in Salem called by the governor to hand over to Nike. You might have read about this. 30 year tax They're not going to get any higher taxes for 30 years. Nike will leave they're threatening to leave the state if the state doesn't. Doesn't kiss their what? And give them a big massive deal talking about more corruption as the as in Michigan their breaking the unions. Not that I think the unions are unions are the best way to go but. It’s just. It's outrageous. And one more thing here, in various places in the country. Hugs are banned in school and there is a hug in protest by 8th graders in North Carolina. Recently, but that isn't the main part of this thing in China, where this terrible slashing attacks sometimes happens. A Chinese kindergarten has begun charging parents about $13.00 a month for their kids to receive daily hugs from teachers. Wow civilization. Whoa, I'm not sick.

Speaker 3: It has anything.

Speaker 5: You yeah, it's only $13.00. You get a hug, I mean, and I'm sure that's. Most heartfelt just sign here and give us your check and get a hug.

Speaker 6: I think a couple of weeks ago when Cliff was on, he was talking about that book, The Shallows and the geometric progression in technology and technological. Happenings, the things that are. I'll say transistor radio was big in our time and then now it's like little teeny tiny iPhone or something can can accomplish all this stuff. And when I hear about Chinand the stabbing in the kindergarten, it's like what? Well, how many years has it been where the urban rural shift has happened in Chinand now there are Chinese kindergarteners? You know the this wonderful model of how to how to be a Western civilization capitalist. You know whatever you want. All the terms of it, it's like a way of life radically changes in a short period of time. And so now you get your kids stabbed quicker and younger than it took for this crap to happen here.

Speaker 5: Unhealthy isn't the word it. It just wonder. What next, you wonder how you could invent the craziness the. As progress marches on everywhere. The black male of the whole world system. I'm not saying everything is mandated, but they are becoming massive fied and. And, as weirded out as we are, they're trying desperately to get there.

Speaker 6: Right and weird it out. I mean even I would say even more damning. I'd call it, it's a blow to consciousness. It's an alteration in what? What do you? What is human? What ? How can you kill your young nobody? Kill their young brutally. You know like that. That's it's just such a distortion of. Of what it means to be human, I mean, violence, violence, we, we know there's violence, we know, but there's this. The whole scenario that's unfolded in the last week and to me starting very locally with the Clackamas Town Center. OK, I want to go back to that because that’s been wiped away and there's some finer points of what happened there and what people experienced that I think are lost. By the shift to the East Coast and. The young man there only killed two people, and he killed himself and I like to think a possibility was that whatever had broken in his consciousness or whatever there was breakthrough and he killed himself. He saw what he'd done. He killed himself. Maybe that's true. Maybe that's not at the same time as this had all unfolded the 10,000 people at the mall they're hiding away and frightened the mothers and their children. And the Christmas shoppers. Cops from all over the areare rushing independently to be appear to either be heroes or to get a piece of the action. You know now what was that about or why? I think I. I heard from someone in the Clackamas. County Sheriff was talking about the difficulty of. Of the situation of just no central organization or nothing, just armed assault weapon cops all over the place in that mall. One of the news media happened to catch in and broadcast all the shoppers leaving the Little 4 year olds. Mothers, grandmothers, children, hands in the air, strollers, purses, everything, abandoned hand in the air taken out like you were the criminal you were the shooter and that's all. Because it was noticed, it's been explained that's what you had to do because you didn't know blah blah blah blah blah. But it's like, hey, these got these guys and women. The armed forces head trained. This was an opportunity, no doubt, for many of them the adrenaline rush that. That people keep talking to about the shooters. How about our defenders of law and order? You know what,? What's what's bringing them and how much of a danger are they in these situations? I certainly, I think that's the piece that's just being lost is what happened at the Town Center.

Speaker 5: I suppose they on you see this in so many places. I've quite a while ago now I mentioned that our granddaughter Jane has and it's the school has the drill. It's not the duck and cover. The Russians are going to send the missiles over, but of course it's somebody. Possibly somebody who's armed who's going to break into their school and kill people that's been going on for quite a while, and that and they do drill. You know, as you might have noticed, for one thing, they don't. Columbine was surrounded by cops and they waited quite a long time and until after the two teenagers killed themselves. But now they're apparently, the drill is just to go straight in and try to intercept the shooting. You know that didn't happen in this case. Either the guy was or it, or possibly it did. In Connecticut I mean. He might have killed himself right when they.

Speaker 6: Well, but it gets, it gets to that same thing though the whole gun control thing right now is being a solution.

Speaker 5: We don't know that, but.

Speaker 6: It's like in the schools it's become lockdown lockdown. Hey, this school was locked down. There was all kinds of rumors about his mother. They said the other was like no, that was none of it. He shot out the window in the school, so same thing.

Speaker 5: Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you have that weaponry and but just before the call I just you just. I mean tragically there is no reason to think thisn't going to continue and worsen in fact. So the question is, are people going to be satisfied with this cosmetic gun control debate? In other words, you can ban assault rifles. By the way, these shootings are all indoors, and if you think about it, an assault rifle, that's really you're. You're much handier and I hate to use that word. But handguns. You don't need a long range weapon inside a classroom or wherever. I mean, basically speaking, you inside our handgun is. It's much more to the point, I mean whether or not they it's always. It's not always a handgun. I'm not saying it is, but that's really you start seeing. The futility we get just going to mess around with these little cosmetic things or at some point talk about what society spawns this dreadful stuff. It's almost unimaginable.

Speaker 6: What society and the solution that will happen? Unless it's addressed is there will not be balls. There will not be public schools. There will not be public gathering places you will be online. You will be connected through a machine and anything beyond that. Will not be acceptable.

Speaker 5: Oh man, I hadn't thought of that. That would be the logic. What are they going to do if they can't do? Anything about yeah, right?

Speaker 6: Right, OK, we've got a call here.

Speaker 4: You have zeroes on the phone.

Speaker 9: Hello yeah, hey John, the new low 0. OK all. Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 2: Good, how are you?

Speaker 9: Oh oh doing pretty well. I just tuned in a few minutes ago and I don't really want to talk. Too much about this sort of horrible tragedy that was going on here discussing earlier. I don't know if you mentioned it, but this Lanza guy he smashed his computer after this. And this like top of the news now and they're trying to find out, . If this going to reveal something about why he did this and I just. You know he can't help but to think he did this horrible these horrible things and with and then also the computer and you just wonder like what this connection is with smashing the computer and doing all these horrible things to these people but. Yeah, and then the solutions that they're talking about. Increasing mental health care and whatnot. Well, what that will mean. It will be more institutional pharmaceutical. Horrible stuff that they're already doing that probably putting a lot of people in these situations. To begin with, but I got to tell you that's not the reason I called I. I just sort of picked up on what? You're talking about there. Are you there?

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, please go ahead, Nancy.

Speaker 9: Sorry, I'm on an old Rotary phone here and I never call anybody so.

Speaker 6: Yay Rotary phones.

Speaker 9: Well, does the name Jeff Monson ring a bell?

Speaker 5: Yes, the wrestler, the Cage fighter guy.

Speaker 9: Yes, yes two times world submission. Wrestling champion nogi. Brazilian Jiu jitsu world champion. And an. Anarchist who shows up at the protest. And he speaks out in the media, and I was going to say, and this a little bit shameless here, but he's going to be doing an AMA on the anarchist news subreddit on Reddit. And I and I just wanted to say that and also I have an update. It was supposed to be for tomorrow morning, but something came up and it's going to be Thursday. So I just. Wanted to invite any of your listeners to perhaps go in there and ask any questions and I wanted to say on the subreddit anarchist. We could, use more green anarchist post leftist, voices in there to sort of balance things out because the forum, as it isn't isn't so great, but we it isn't so great all around for. Pure like anarchist thought and we could really use some hardline anarchist I. Guess let's say.

Speaker 5: OK, well thanks very much anzy.

Speaker 9: Yeah and let's see yeah, so I just encourage everybody to do that. And yeah, Jeff Monson, it'll be on Thursday morning and I encourage everyone to participate. Thanks for taking the call.

Speaker 5: Great be well. The Halo Zero that's the I just thought of this just now. The never ending nihilism debate. What is nihilism in the general sense?

Speaker 6: Right, right?

Speaker 5: I think it means you have no beliefs or values and then. You could be off to the races. That and I think I applied that in terms of the. Piece I wrote called we heard screaming. That was that energy anyway then, but the more political etiquettes now, they said, oh don't don't use the word nihilist like that, . So anyway, this fellow Nihilo 0. Very intelligent guy. Very committed guy. I mean, he's not nihilist in the sense of, just. Lost and no see another call. This would be. What four or five?

Speaker 4: Something like this Kevin from Chicago.

Speaker 6: OK, well hello.

Speaker 10: Hey there guys. How you doing?

Speaker 5: Good what's going on?

Speaker 10: Not much great show so. Far I wanted to comment about. What you guys were talking about? With guns earlier. I think it's more the virtual guns that we have to be worried about and the video games I wanted to share that there's been a lot of studies on screen technology and in particular. Violent video games and their. Their effects on the prefrontal cortex and particularly the left inferior frontal lobe, which is basically the part of the brain that controls you. Know your behavior, your compulsive actions, your emotions, and your aggression and they. On that people's on screen technology, they actually have a diminished prefrontal cortex while they're on that screen technology and from the case on Friday. With this gunman in Connecticut, and then as well as many other shootings, there's always been this connection with violent video games. I guess they said. With the government in Connecticut. That he was playing Call of Duty regularly. Was obsessed with it or something like that and. I think that this is really important to think about is that the technology here is really something that plays a key role in creating the consciousness of the killer, .

Speaker 2: MHM MHM

Speaker 6: I think that's absolutely true, and I think that's what's totally being lost. You know, you get occasional references or things to the video games, but hey, all the politicians want to talk about is gun control.

Speaker 10: Yeah, exactly exactly and. I find it ironic too. That one of the. Mom was getting interviewed and she said that what this event made her want to do is get her six year old child a. Cell phone right away. And it's just it's. It feels like we're just in a paradox now where we just need to add on technology upon technology. When what really needs to be critiqued is the technology itself, because I mean these are actual studies. This from Doctor Vincent Matthews from Indiana University, and he found that within just 30 minutes. Playing a violent video game, there is diminished activity in the prefrontal cortex and if this area of the brain is controlling your compulsive actions and your aggressive behaviors and your emotions, prolonged activity and being on that. And being immersed in. It too. I mean, you’re really, you're rewiring. Your brain and it really shows that. Neuroplasticity is completely true. You know?

Speaker 6: I think so and what I think of when you talk about the whole the mother and the cell phone and the solution is add technology upon technology. That's the same exact approaches with climate change. You know we're going to solve it fracking. Let's get, we get alternative energy sources or this or that. And it's like the. That's the road that's leading us to our doom.

Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah exactly. I mean, there's a really good book about that I'll recommend to everyone. It's called techno fix and I can't remember the author, but he was a I believe he was some a biologist and. And he. He basically. Shows that adding more technology. Into more technology is just It’s not getting us anywhere and it's just bandaging things and creating a super bug that will really be the final. You know the final straw here.

Speaker 6: Well, right or maybe that super bug that takes down the technology. Is that what you're talking about? Worm or something? Maybe that'll be the final, solution improvement.

Speaker 10: Yeah, right? I mean, it's just It’s really sad and that It’s sad that all of this had to happen this week. And I think we need to look at the systemic problems. And we need to look at the actual. Causation of it and not just the little superficialities involved around it. It's, it's really unfortunate.

Speaker 6: I second that and I would say yeah, especially not this, lock us up more, make, make communicating with each other in public spaces less and less possible. And that seems to be the direction more control.

Speaker 10: Right, right?

Speaker 6: More policing.

Speaker 10: All right well? Very cool, thanks guys. This a really good. Show tonight thank you.

Speaker 5: Thanks a lot, another excellent. Wow, that's super very good.

Speaker 6: So well before we go out, I do want to because I do think there's a very very.

Speaker 2: Important point.

Speaker 6: This like a heavy show and what we've talked about is pretty depressing. I want to go to New York Times today, ancient bones to tell a story of compassion. It's about, I guess, some thing now they're calling bio bioarchaeology. It's basically the. Finding of remains and looking at remains of skeletons and studying how people used to live pre civilization. Just read you a couple of lines. Well it is a painful truism. The brutality and violence are at least as old as humanity, so it seems is caring for the sick and disabled. Old finding very old skeletons of individuals who, for example, paralyzed from the waist down before adolescence. The result of a congenital disease. He had little if any use of his arms and could not have fed himself to, or kept himself clean. But he lived another 10 years. They concluded that the people around him who had no metal and lived by fishing, hunting and raising barely domesticated pigs, took the time and care to tend to his every need. As another case of a Neanderthal, contrary to popular stereotypes of prehistoric people, under some conditions, life 7500 years ago included an ability and willingness to help and sustain the chronically ill and handicapped. Another example, 10,000 years ago, people living by hunting and gathering. Taken care of by their people so.

Speaker 5: That's a beautiful thing to wind this up on. Very, very good to have that the end. Great having you here, Catherine once again on the 15th of January.

Speaker 6: Hey thanks a lot. Is that right?

Speaker 5: And move the third one.

Speaker 6: OK, that's it then alright.

Speaker 5: Right on? Well, we won't be here. There will be no show on Christmas Day only, if only because. Carl is sneaking off to Nashville, TN.

Speaker 4: It's not my fault.

Speaker 5: But back on the 1st. And that'll be thanks to Carl so. Oh, we got a happy tune to. Go out on.

Speaker 6: All right?

Speaker 1: Happy Jack wasn't told, but he was trapped.

Speaker 10: He lived in the sand at the island.

Speaker 9: The kids would all sing, he would.

UNKNOWN: Take the wrong key. So they rode on his head in the furry donkey.

Speaker 1: The stuff Jack on the water stuff man. And they couldn't prevent Jack from being happy.

12-11-2012

[audio]

Doha climate summit, more shootings, 'right to work' in Michigan, cyber snooping, other signs of the times. Action news, 'Two Cheers for Anarchism.' Revealing ads, three calls.

12-04-2012

[audio]

Cliff here. Civilization the wane, taking Earth with it in so many ways. The Shallows discussion. Shootings, Ad of the Week. Action news. 3 calls.

11-27-2012

[audio]

Read 'Losing Consciousness.' News: e.g. Egypt, Bangladesh, Mexico, Dubai, TB, industrialism. Action roundup, one call.

11-20-2012

[audio]

Kathan live. Gaza, U.S. military woes, Gulf pathologies, Sandy blow back. Action news, Occupy views, two calls.

11-13-2012

[audio]

Sandy, Part III. Veterans' Day: sex scandals, etc., in the Land of Denial. Action items. "Civilization is Like a Jetliner." Two calls.

11-06-2012

[audio]

Leah Plant, Leah Kelly. Cloud Atlas (!). More on Sandy. Industrial and techno realities. Action news, two calls, poem by Ant.

10-30-2012

[audio]

Mega-storm Sandy and global warming, nukes, India, China. How to live forever. Evil Media book, action reports. One call. Health and tech news.

10-23-2012

[audio]

Cordage, Rowan, Bison in the studio with Karl and me. Rewilding conversation. News of the week e.g. major shootings data. Call form so. Oregon, action news. Lively broadcast.

10-16-2012

[audio]

Kathan here. Election zaniness, Afghan disasters, doping and cheating, NPR. Portland call about consciousness/resistance. Much action news, Free Leah-Lynn Plante!

10-09-2012

[audio]

Meningitis spreads, surveillance, drugging the kids, GMOs, ads of the week. Facebook, oil sheen in Gulf, stress & depression impacts. Action news. App for sorting socks.

10-02-2012

[audio]

Education or naked capitalism? General news: drones, goodbye Great Barrier Reef, technology vs. food, etc. Anti-modern Brits. Action news, crazed techno-developments. Great call from Soda Mt. Wilderness.

09-25-2012

[audio]

Cliff at the ready. Smoke Farm Symposium weekend. iPhone frenzy, high tech energy drain. Dis-ease reports. Call about crimethinc orientation. Shock Lobster! Action news.

09-18-2012

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. B. Traven/Hedges debate. Muslim world eruptsâmany facets; more news. "Revolution" TV, ospreys fight cell towers, action reports. Berlin anarchists burn books! Check out anarchos.info. 3 calls.

09-11-2012

[audio]

Violence on the mall. Rest of "The Sea," more on Individualists Tending toward the Wild. Tech ads of the week, action news, 3 calls, poem by Ant.

Speaker 1: Now in Vienna there's 10 pretty women. There's a shoulder where death comes to cry. There's a lobby with 900 windows. There's a tree where the doves go to die. There's a piece that was torn from the morning and it hangs in the gallery of Frost. Hi, take this waltz take this waltz take this waltz with the clamp on its jaw. Fallout one you I want you. I want you. On a chair with a dead magazine. In The Cave at the tip of the Lily, in some hallway where loves may love. On our bed where the moon has been sweating. In a crime filled with footsteps and sand. Pick this wall. This wall take its broken waste in your hand. This falls this walls. This walls this walls with its very own breath of Brandy and Dale Dragon. Its tail in the concert. Hall in Vienna. We all know had 1000. The views there's a bar where the boys have stopped talking. They've been sentenced to death. By the Blues. Father, who is it? Claims to your picture with the Garland of freshly cut tears. Take this walls. Take this one. Take this walls. It's been dying for years. There's an attic where children are where I've got to lie down with you soon.

Speaker 2: In a dream of Hungarian lanterns in the midst of some Sweden.

Speaker 1: And I'll see what. Changed to your sorrow. All your sheep and your lilies of the. Snow oh I love that.

Speaker 3: It's 911 it's calling me. Had a lot to share on the program. Hey, we saw money rate and Mavis Staples last Wednesday night.

Speaker 4: Oh wow.

Speaker 3: It was so fine.

Speaker 4: Oh, that sounds really cool.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just dynamite. Just a lot of energy and Mavis Staples at 73 with her band. That was the warm up. And that. Body right, it was really something. It was great the old Cuthbert Mandatory. Really glad went well. Kathy will be here next week and then Cliff and then 25th. We got some stuff to catch up with. Didn't get to. Action News that's under that a little too late, but the only and the only action. Had to do with the individualists tending to the wild and I want to talk. About that a little bit more. Tonight in fact, well, very little. Let's just maybe I'll mention right now and. It was mentioning last week. It would be nice to have a discussion this because I'm just picking out certain things and possible. I hope I'm not missing the main. Thing here, because I do think it's very important and it's possibly becoming more. Important the more. Information there is. There's another. There was a piece this guy, Lee Phillips. Writing in the in the Weekly Nature magazine long article called Nanotechnology Armed Resistance. About these nanotech lab bombings and of course there was one guy was shot to death by this outfit, usually referred to as ITS for short. That would be the. The acronym for this for the original Spanish name in Spanish, that is. How the country became a target of eco anarchist and this OK. Somewhat OK. Longish peace, very factual, or very, very informative, so this becoming. A little more visible and I wanted to just. There's just a couple other things that stuck in my craw. Somebody on the line frogs here frog. Frog you fine fellow, are you there?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm here. I can barely hear you. But I'm here. I have a great 9/11 joke I'd like to share with you.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 5: What's the difference with 9/11 and a cow?

Speaker 3: Huh? What is the difference?

Speaker 5: People stopped milking the cow after 11.

Speaker 3: OK, thanks Roy. It's OK. We need a 9/11 joke.

Speaker 5: You're welcome.

UNKNOWN: Thanks bro.

Speaker 3: OK, back to itts. They see the fun of one or two things that may or may not be that key here. That's central to. What they're doing, what they're thinking and what they're writing, but. They their reference to nature struck me as odd and namely because they said. How wrong it is to think of nature as nurturing its savage and violent. And I mean some of this stuff. It's a little bit more like right wing survivalism. I was just wondering do you have you ever asked Indigenous people how they see the natural world or mother Earth? Do they see it as? In those terms I wonder, or have they read any anthropology? There's certainly not to. And generally speaking, the orientation in terms of the past in terms of prehistory. For example, I. Mean from what we know from ethnography and you don't have to go to prehistory either. Savage and violent. I think they lived. And the unity with nature most of the time, that's that is the bigger outlook. I would say. And also the reference to people that is. This almost like little footnote. It isn't. They're not taking this up very fully or very directly, but that humans are conflictual by nature. Let's not forget that, meaning I guess violent and savage like nature, which is strikes me as. A little odd. And anyway, that's just part of the picture. This, I think it's pretty important. It's going to be more on this. More in lots of ways I would say. Well, I. Want to this? Is a little bit out of order, but I was just talking to Tim Lewis this morning and I sure don't want to neglect this one. This a local thing here in Eugene. I want to recommend it. It's a 14 minute YouTube video called where the sidewalk ends hot dogs hooligans and heroes. And if you Google where the sidewalk ends Tim Lewis, you'd certainly get it. Maybe a little more easily and this relates to one principle incident, but it's not the only incident. Downtown Eugene is some of you locals certainly know there's been a lot of back and forth about homeless kids traveler kids, other people hanging out downtown. The various exclusionary ordinances and so forth. It's been going back and forth for some years now. Well, midnight August 15. Just about a month ago, already 2 Traveller kids and another young guy who's actually a small business guy downtown were assaulted by a fellow named Albert Brahimaj, also known as. And this guy has a sandwich place Albees New York heroes at 11th and Lawrence. It's long. Been a little sandwich place. I think Papa used to have his place there, didn't he? Before he moved up to the Whitaker? Yeah, a little place next to a laundromat down there. Well, this guy is a real piece of work. He is he viciously assaulted these three people downtown. He has a late night hot dog stand this guy is not only very anti homeless but he's he has a nasty racist past. He's been jailed for stabbings and. This happened and Carol Berg and knows she'll be OK with my mentioning this very public individual. Has been going. Around for a month now trying to get this. Trying to get some justice here and just been fronted off the whole way. They have done all this stuff that you do. You know? Filing complaints and reports and. All this stuff absolutely nothing has happened because this guy Albie is way tight with the local pig department here. They hang out with him a lot. He never has any problem no matter what he's doing and this going to be something of his story. It deserves to be something of his story this whole. Collusion and violence going on downtown, and I saw the interview with these. With these three people that were assaulted, and. It sure seems to me that's the story is correct that they weren't doing anything, but this guy is quite a piece of work, so this a picture Eugene. Presentation and you might want to check it out where the sidewalk ends. Very nicely done and pretty much a grabber. We'll see what happens and see what happens next to those stuff. Well, going to finish reading this, see I've read about almost half of it last week, I think and. And do that as well. In fact, I don't do that right now, and then we got. We got news. We got Action News, different things like that. So call us up at 5413460645. You don't have to have a job. You can have anything you want, let's see. Well, I was. This just a I don't know. Maybe pseudo poetic piece. I don't know what you call it but. Talking about the influence of the seand different peoples takes on that experience. According to an article in the American Historical Review from 2006, the maritime dimension has become a subject in its own right. Quote no longer outside time, the sea is being given in history, even as the history of the world is being retold from the perspective of the sea. Interesting quote from an historian. Unfortunately its arrival. On the stage has occurred on theels and in the context of another inauguration heralded by Godfried Ben. Now the series of great insoluble disasters itself is beginning. The fate of the once freshening sea is now that of crashing fish numbers, accelerated loss of marine and coastal habitats on a global scale. Garbage gyres hundreds of miles across dying coral reefs, growing dead zones. For example, the hypoxic zones in the northern Gulf of Mexico to site a few disastrous. Developments long in the mix. Water is the most mythological of the elements, wrote Charles Kareni and the literature of the searguably began with Homer in the early Iron Age. 8th century BP. He wrote of its lonely austerity quote, the sterile sea, a perspective that is certainly already that of civilization. Poised against the natural world, the sea was by now merely a means, a passageway to increase domination, new conquests, large war fleets were well established. Aphrodite, goddess of love, arose from sea foam but somehow failed to carry the day. Suffering is far older than history. It predates domestication slash civilization by hundreds of thousands of years. Humans were navigating the oceans vastly earlier than were riding horses. For instance, Homewrecker is about 800,000 years ago, cross scores of miles of ocean to inhabit the island of Flores in the Indonesian. And even today, long voyages on the open sea were made by people with no use for metals, David Lewis marveled at a Pacific native who found his way quote by means of a slight swell that probably had its origins thousands of miles away and made a perfect landfall in the half mile gap. Between two islands, having navigated for between 45 and 48 miles without a single glimpse of the sky. Tor hired all of the Kontiki expedition fame, made use of the Incas, simple and ingenious way of stirring raft on his impressive South Pacific Odyssey. Interestingly, while the ink is revered, revered the sea, the Mayas made scant mention of it, possibly because the Mayas. The written language and the Incas did not. Joshua Slocum's account of his solo sail around the Globe notes how the South Pacific Islanders quote took what nature had provided for them and have great reason to love their country and fear the white man's yoke for once, harness to the plow. Their life would no longer be a poem and is further South Pacific observation. As I sailed further from the center of civilization, I heard less and less of what? Would and would not pay. Meanwhile, Cannon armed sailing ships had heralded a fundamental advance in Europe's place in the world in terms of control of oceanic trade routes. In the late 1400s Portugal and Spain, the first global naval powers competed for vast stretches of the Atlantic, Indiand Pacific Oceans, the worldwide Commons of the sea was rather rapidly disenchanted and instrumentalized as the era of modern history dawned. Its relative solitude, silence, spiritual wealth and intimacy gave way to the onslaught of globalization and then industrial globalization. The quiet gracefulness of sailing ships and the seamanship skills of their crews were ushered out in the 19th century in favor of graceless vessels, noisy and forest. Like moving factories, how much globalized industrial existence is possible under simple sale? Voyages with time enough to know oceans and heavens. Taking what wind and wave have to offer adventures, not timetables and technological disasters. As sentiment opposed to the machine was to see as archetype and key source of the sublime and the romantic era. The powerful sea paintings of Winslow Homer and JMW Turner certainly come to mind. But celebrated or not, the oceans were being targeted for domestication and child herald. Byron wrote, man marks the earth with ruin. His control stops with the shore. Later in the century, his words no longer rang true. Joseph Conrad dated the end of the old scene from 1869 when the Suez Canal was completed. In 1912, an iceberg quickly dispatched the largest moving object on the planet. Titanic's demise was a blow to confidence in the complete mastery of nature, as well as the opening act of chronic contemporary disasters. Peter Matheson's novel Far Tortuga is a troubled meditation the sea with its background. Of a Caribbean strip region stripped of sea turtles, fish, timber, et cetera. By the 1970s. In fact, John Steinbeck described Japanese fishing dredges that work off the coast of Mexico in 1941. Quote literally scraping the bottom clean with a ravening wasteful industrial process. They are sold on the seand its inhabitants is nothing new, but is always being intensified by advancing technology. An IBM smart cloud ad of 2012 boasts of smarter computing systems that enable fishermen to auction their car. Their catch well still at. Sea to speed up the domination of the oceans. Long ago we had few things on the water, especially now we take our profusion of possessions with us. Mass society comes along on the voyage of industrial tourism. Voyage comes from viaway, but there is no moral way and is no coincidence that the survival struggles of indigenous peoples and aquatic life had reached. Have reached a generally similar level of extremity. All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full, but Ecclesiastes 17 is no longer accurate. Rising sea levels perceptible since 1930 are an alarming fact. Other sea cities have faltered and striven with the tide. Other sea cities have struggled and died. Observed HD. Trains of tons of water are now a steady flow polar ice cap melting. Many studies and new books recount what is starkly clear. Rising temperatures, acidification, levels and pollution. The North Sea is warm to the point of tropical fish and birds in the fiords of Norway. Thermohaline circulation vertical current movement in the North Atlantic is weakening markedly damaged, clearly but not domesticated yet. A couple of lines from 2 anonymous poets indicating the Ocean's give me feels that no man ploughs the farm that pays no fee. And the oceans fields are fair and free. There are no rent days on the sea. To what to find? Surfer hours to recall direct sensory experience and ponder its severe diminution, many have called the see the finest University of Life, free from the Never Satisfied network of speech and the symbolic. Paul Valery felt that the Quickening Sea gives back my soul. Most all the potency I'll run to the wave and from it be reborn. There is a purification motif that many writers have touched on visa via the sea. Rambo, for example, referred to the sea, which I loved as though it should cleanse me of a stain Jack Kerouac. 's first novel mentions the way this protean ocean extended its cleansing forces up, down, and in its cyclorama to all directions. The once scrubbed sea soaking up the crime of civilization. John Steinbeck saw that a breakwater is usually a dirty place, as though tampering with the shoreline as obscene and impractical to the cleansing action of the sea. For hired all the Pacific had washed and cleansed both body and soul. Echoing your rebodies words, the sea washes away and cleanses every human stain. Its own denizens show us so very much the purpose. Is that always prefer sailboats? The singing humpback whales, dolphins and their extraordinary brain size and intelligence. Did not whales and dolphins return to the oceans, having found land life unsatisfactory, there is some open telepathic connection among all dolphins in the sea. According to Wade Doke. I will go back. To the great sweet mother, mother and love of man, the Sea wrote Swinburne, the sea has many voices. Deep calleth unto deep, to quote Psalms 52 seven. All of life is connected and the oceanic feeling aptly expresses a sense of deep bonds of oneness. Not accidentally is oceanic. The term employed to denote a profound connectedness. Robinson Jeffers told us that mere use, meaning the technological the fabricated world, won't cover up the glory. The glory of the sea, the glory of the non fabricated world. He celebrated wholeness of life in the universe. Counseling love that not man apart from that. Also remember from the French May of 1968, sulie Pablo Plage, under the under the paving stones, the beach. And I think it inspired raft for higher doll discovered a deep truth whether it was 1947 BC or AD, suddenly became of no significance. We lived in that we felt with alert intensity. We realized that life had been full for men before the technical age. Also indeed Fuller and richer in many ways than the life of modern man. And we still. Have the sea just possibly too big to fail. Since not your moaning, your fierce old mother. Wrote Walt Whitman, his truest poetry, so often evoked the see. Let's join with Byron. Roll on thou deep and dark blue ocean roll. All right, this scene in two parts? Well, here's a this a little invitation. I got a couple of days ago. And I think this a web show. They claim millions of people checking it out, and it's called holistic survival. And they nicely invited me to do 30 minute Skype thing. So I looked at their website, holistic survival, green and sustainable move. I've never heard of it before, and. Will be this the prediction. I think it's the. The MC. Is the founder and CEO of Platinum Properties Investor Network. So I'm thinking. Oh and then the other part green and sustainable holistic survival and the and right on their big banner toward the toward the end of their big. There's sort of headline. About us page. Protect your profits and investments. So I had to tell them that Gee, the world of profits and investments. Isn't that why there's? Isn't that why you got to be talking about green is sustainable, even though you're anyway? I declined, so obviously there's all kinds of greenwashing and so forth. Protect your portfolio, be green. Well, let's see. Well before the break. This some ads for the week of the. Technological variety, Toshiba semiconductor and storage products as an ad in the Wall Street Journal. The other day Toshiba. It's more than a video. It's an expression of love. How we save love, storage, technology. Yeah, well, . On the other hand, I mean people have treasured old photos, so I don't know. It's not totally different, just the technology is the love part of it, ? Here's an Intel ad half a page ad. What is this New York Times? Few days ago next generation education, now preparing the next generation. Nothing new there. Flooding the classrooms with the high tech. Stuff training 10 million teachers to use technology to teach, not just teaching technology. Showing students around the world how math and science solves global problems. That's what it's doing. It's not creating global. Problems at all. And of course, this. The never ending IBM thing. Let's build a smarter planet. The latest episode. I don't know if they don't, they don't. They don't exactly number these things, but this a full page deal. The more we know, the more we want to change everything more of the same and toward the very end. Let's change the world. Let's let's change the way the world works across the world. IBM works with forward thinking leaders in nearly every field to put datand analytics at theart of their organizations and their decision making. We've observed that among these leaders, a distinct group is emerging. Leaders who talents whose talents are enabled by technology but go beyond it. These leaders are making bold decisions and advancing them on the basis of rich evidence. All that evidence, ? Yeah, I got got a lot of evidence to share with you. Maybe we need. To take the break now and do some news and other assorted things. OK, onward and upward Houston. Some crazy old news. Some of this really. As remarkable as the news can be, it seems like it's getting ever more remarkable. If you saw this one. This reported just today. I'm pretty sure the 10,000 square mile. South Coast Air Quality Management district. That's pretty much all of Southern California. Was permeated yesterday. I don't know if today as. Well, but it's strong. Rotten egg smell? What is that? Stands right, but there's a.

Speaker 6: The sulfur, some sulfur.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, It’s some chemical deal. If really have everybody gagging and crying and everything and they don't even know it could be coming all the way from the Salton Sea, which is, oh. 150 miles southeast of LA, it's South past Palm Springs. Were not so good and to go right along with that pretty much at the same time a stretch of the trying to turn as the longest river has turned red and the officials say they don't know why that. Is the Yangtze. Environmental officials say they don't know why it turned red. Gee, it could be. Could be industry. This was the biggest concentration near Corn Queen SW China's largest industrial center. And at other places as well, the environment officials are considering industrial pollution. And still turned up by recent floods. It takes a lot to turn the whole river, one of the bigger rivers, the red I would imagine. And yeah, alarming. Large scale stuff. Meanwhile, here's one that didn't get much attention, but 10s of thousands of dead fish. Have washed up on Lake Erie Lake Erie on the Ontario, Canada side. Had locals wondering if something or someone poisoned Lake Erie. They would. They were killed by a lack of oxygen. Yeah, this on the weekend. NBC News reporting that and oh, just so many disturbing deals and some of this I don't know. There's so much of it, I wonder how much of it you even hear about this. This really in the regional news or local news elk in Southwest Washington. Apparently there's a whole lot of elk and they didn't even say what species of elk. Elk with deformed hooves or no hooves, hobbling around visibly very painful deal. And then they and once again dunno. Wonder why that is all the way from Southwest on up into the Cascades? Apparently don't have any numbers, but. Real disturbing there, and meanwhile the at least three people who died from the virus at Yosemite. National Park and they're trying to run down all these thousands of thousands to see if how many more have contracted the deadly hantavirus. Which is a pulmonary. Type thing in West Nile cases is reported last Thursday, September 6th. West Nile cases of John 25% in a week, according to The Centers for Disease Control and there was a been a few stories about the rise of allergies. That was when the other day about epinephrine kits. Injectors were for in schools when children have an attack. Oh, we'll take this call.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, we got Justin on the line.

Speaker 6: Hello, how are you?

Speaker 3: Good, what's up?

Speaker 6: Hey, I just want to let I generally agree with everything you that you say and talked about on the radio. Ah, I'm just curious if you ever have anything like good to say about the world, is there anything that?

Speaker 3: Well, that's what Action News is about. That's about resistance, and I do find that very positive and inspiring. Any and the discussion about this group in Mexico? I mean, I've got some mixed feelings there.

Speaker 6: I missed that I just tuned in about 10 minutes ago.

Speaker 3: Oh, OK.

Speaker 1: Just got home.

Speaker 3: OK well that if you want to check that out, there's this. There's this group called individualist tending. Toward the wild. And that's a group in Mexico of the Unabomber variety. I've been discussing aspects of that, and we'll see what that augers, or as that unfold, but I do like to stress the fact of resistance all around the world and it's. That's what we got to have. Otherwise it is just a dire deep blank thing and we might as well not even talk about it if we're not going.

Speaker 6: To do something about it. So my question to you is that. For a form of peaceful defense in this global level that you think will be effective. Spiritually mostly.

Speaker 3: Well, no, I well that depends on what you mean by peaceful. I consider property damage to not be violent. Maybe that's just a choice of words, but I think that's necessary. And that in itself doesn't include acts of violence against life. You know, as practiced by Alf for ELF, for example, they have a very strict rule about that. Their targets are chosen with care so that they're not. They're not being violent toward life.

Speaker 6: This thing when things go right.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and they have so far. I mean, yeah, that's it's conceivable that they won't always go right. There are a lot of things to do, though I'm not just, I wouldn't. I'm not just picking up certain spectacular things that people do. There's a lot of things to do and a lot of. People are doing it, so it's.

Speaker 6: It's a lot of borderline. Anarchists are about 20. I feel like I have to hang on to something positive in a spiritual sense that gives me some level of hope for humanity to do something that doesn't require a whole lot in the way of violence by any means but. I agree I agree with. Wait, I don't remember if you I called. You a couple of years ago with my. My ideabout oil and green, I don't know if you. Remember that one or not.

Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes I do, I mean it. Comes back to me exactly man.

Speaker 6: Anyway, I thought this was on Fridays or something, usually, but.

UNKNOWN: No, It’s.

Speaker 3: We're here Tuesdays from seven days pretty much.

Speaker 6: Tuesday, OK Tuesday and. Sunday all right? Well, I'll have to tune. In more often then.

Speaker 3: Thanks a lot. Well, I'm not going to.

Speaker 6: Take anymore of. Your time I was just curious. What your what your ? I've never read your books. I'd like to read your. Book see what that's about? A little bit more, but. I agree with pretty much most what you. Have says more than, I agree.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 6: With most of what I hear on the radio. I just I always. I always wonder if you have any sort of. Positive view or. Hope for humanity that we might come around on a spiritual level that might not require so much. Damage of by of any means but I just always. I'm always curious what your thoughts are on that, so maybe you. Could share that.

Speaker 3: Well, I just briefly I. I think that's a very important component and I think what that's been overlooked, the spiritual dimension. And I think that in itself is possibly not enough, but I think we. It would be a mistake to leave out. The spiritual component, maybe that is, a very key thing that has been missing and that.

Speaker 6: I think it's the ultimate component that's missing from everything that's going on in our world right now. But we'll see what happens. I'm going. To keep keep listening, I keep an open mind. I like to, to listen to hear what you guys have to say so I just want to put in my little two cents and see what you think about it. And I'm going to get out there and. Let you get back to what you're doing.

Speaker 3: Good for calling.

Speaker 6: All right, best wishes.

Speaker 3: You too all right. Yeah, good deal. OK and oh I was talking about just mentioning this the ways at school. It's called turning lifesaver for growing worry. That they're called EpiPen kits and they can give a dose of epinephrine to treat allergic reactions and it just it just highlights the reality and one wonders what it is all about here. In other words, in 1997 one and 250 kids. Had peanut allergy and now it's one in 70. You know about 10 years later, it's four times as many and. A lot of such things, and this looks like a very interesting book. This just. I read about it today. For the first time, an epidemic of absence, a new way of understanding allergies and autoimmune diseases by Moises valesquez manov. And this basically the case against being too clean, and that's not for the first time we've heard this, I think, but we, our immune systems are going haywire. They're they're weak. We're less strong. In that sense, and one could say this this point of view means that the part of part of the war on nature, the war on nature. That's what you get when you are trampling the nature and the. Trying to eradicate it and. You know then then you end up not very robust and the memory having the visible. Outcome of that where there's just the everything seems people are much more unhealthy than before. I think that. And reading the epic time, 75% of children school supplies that were tested in New York City. A high level of toxic fellates. These are most of this made in China very hazardous. In terms of lots of different things, including cancer. And yeah, this along the same front here stubborn and expensive to treat drug resistant strains show growth TB again. If I had to collect all the articles on TB, making a comeback once again over medicated. And a new strain of pig flu first. Death was reported on Saturday. This here in the US. As well, and now this reflected in the popular culture in the sense of ads. I heard a radio commercial about a week ago for some supplement. I forgot what it was, but it referred to the age of the Super bug. So it isn't just picking stuff out at random here to riff on in terms of this phenomenon. It's now so widespread that they're marketing supplements and stuff based on that fact effectively. And it was announced today that the Navy can build $100 million offshore submarine warfare range. A training facility and the federal judge made this ruling despite the endangered right whale. Yeah, U.S. District judge. This would be off the coast of Georgiand Floridand Shell. This started Sunday began drilling and the trucks you see. Above the Arctic Circle, where there's pretty much no chance of cleaning stuff up once this bill happens. This was authorized by the Obama government, of course, and more on the record ice thaw and Arctic and Greenland this year. Melting season is a Goliath. The geophysicist Marco Tedesco, director of the Cryospheric Processes Lab at City University. Of New York. And in the front page and the front page of New York Times today, New York is lagging, as sees and risks rise. Critics warn that New York City is a 520 mile coastline. And in some ways could easily fill up with water. There's all kinds of vulnerabilities, and everybody knows the seeds are rising and this not just some theoretical thing, they're talking about the practical. What are you going to do about that right here in New York City? Well, well, a couple. Of other things, she's we're zipping along. Got to get to got to get to action. News shooting of the week. Missouri Woman said a goodbye meal to her ex-boyfriend and then shot and killed her three young daughters before killing herself. This was near Saint Louis. September 6th it was that Friday and one more from the Washington Post today. Investors can begin construction in six months on 3 privately run cities in Honduras. Yeah, these are private cities outside the jurisdiction of the government. Were funding people were civic groups where as others are horrified this going to be a catastrophe. Yeah, why not have the corporations run everything directly? That's what this would be. OK Action, news and let's see take. Some of this off. Oh, we got a call. I had to miss action days twice in a row, but sometimes it happens. Well, there was a column by Derek Jensen. the. I think the third. In a row. 3 shrill column that I just puzzled over. It's called to protect and serve when the government. There's nothing about pollution and so forth.

UNKNOWN: And this e-mail address.

Speaker 3: Communities must defend themselves.

Speaker 6: It's long and.

UNKNOWN: It's some weird letters in there.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean that's the point, and but in a very abstract sense, it doesn't refer to anyone who's doing the defending. And Derek says. Derek says if the Gulf catastrophe and the drilling doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. If groundwater pollution doesn't convince you, I don't. Know what will if. And so forth. If all these different things, the climate change data, I don't know what well it does feel a little good to rail at people, especially when you don't want to talk. He doesn't even talk about his own. Deep Green resistance group. So then you have sort of nothing. You just have this injunction to do something, but what? What are you? I mean, there are people doing stuff and Jensen ought to know that instead of just.. Yelling at people OK? Specifics there have been two Alf attacks in the UK. Quite recently, in terms of industrial chicken farms. Within a couple of weeks you could call it the Chicken Liberation Front. The freeing chickens from these giant, awful things, but it's no joke and these people are risking prison to do. Stuff like that in. On Friday in Perth, WA, a large sign at a big slaughterhouse business. Was piled up with eight or ten pain bonds, and the only reason I mentioned this the last part of the communique or the announcement says promoting animal abuse is not acceptable in civilized society, but the point is, that's precisely where it's acceptable. That's what it's called. That's what it's caused by. It's called domestication. As mass society goes forward. OK Marco, Camenisch is on a hunger strike in Switzerland. This well, I'm having to go back a little because they skipped last week end of August. He's anti civilization fighter. There's a big banner hanging across from the Swiss Embassy in downtown Buenos Aires and in Manado. Indonesia this posted Sunday, September 2nd, an electrical substation. Was attacked with an incendiary device in solidarity. With the Chileand other anarchists, among others, very late Wednesday night, going back to stepping back August 29th. This a 3 mobile phone masts. These cell phone towers in the. Vicinity of Parma. In Italy. We're set on fire. Excellent news, the major action there. This for you Marco, brother and Comrade may actually spread for all our comrades in prison. And after learning of Oakland's paid the Gay Pride event, a group of radical LGBT PTQ activists decided to take action and gather did an impromptu March went through the financial district. This in Oakland. Breaking bank windows and ATMs. The majority of the 100 plus marchers were dressed alike utilizing the Black bloc tactic to better conceal their identities. See, that's a thought. The property, the targeted property destruction, and there's a video I guess too. Inspired by the violence perpetrated on a daily basis by capitalism and its banks. So yeah, did a lot of damage there not part of the team? The gay pride thing on the 20th of August, this only posted a few days ago, but in Bern, Switzerland. This was the 2nd daytime attack on a fur shop they. Spray they like to spray the expensive furs with paint and smelly stuff to render them worthless. €150,000 in damages on that one. And let's see, Oh well, let's see the Malaysia rare earth mining plant has been. And militant protests there in Kuala Lumpur. Malaysia, as they're ramping up the so-called rare earth mining in Western Africa from Gabon, Togo, Ivory Coast, Guinea. There's a big anti government surge going on there. Discontent boils into the street of the big Long. Peace in New York Times on the weekend. Summer of scene shakes West Africa St. And in Palestine, spreading protest and this. This interesting. It’s against the Palestinian Authority as well as the Israeli occupiers. Gotten very strong there and just the past very few days a hacker. This a a mixed story. The execs at GoDaddy. That great big old outfit. Yesterday millions of websites were brought down, but now the GoDaddy folks are saying maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's just a power failure and I think they want to admit was a hacking job, somebody.

Speaker 4: There have a return of a caller.

Speaker 6: What's that, yeah? Well. Let him finish his Action News first.

Speaker 3: OK, I'll be. I'll be doing a second thank you and then we'll get on to you man.

Speaker 6: Not a.

Speaker 3: Problem OK, there's the X. The Keystone XL pipeline has given the green light by. Obama, that's long ago there's been. A rolling campaign of nonviolent civil disobedience. Various lockdowns. This reported yesterday. Some arrests on that here. I don't know what's going on with this, but I've seen posters right here in Eugene. Defend the forest, whatever it takes. Maybe there is a renewal of forest defense going on. Oh, and this an I just thought I'd share this announcement. October 12th and 13th. At Puri, Orissa, which is just not very far South of Calcutta on the eastern coast of India, there's going to be anti civilization gathering an invitation to the anti war anti civilization. It's a get together. There a two day thing. Friends india? Well, that’s some of the news. Thanks for thanks for hanging in there. Call are you still with us? Good what's happening.

Speaker 6: Well hey, it's Justin. I was just wondering what it would take for you. To send me a copy of your book.

Speaker 3: You know the fastest way to do that is. Go to Ferrell house. Yeah, Ferrell house, they’re. It's up in Washington. I don't even. I have like one copy of my new book. You might check out what they offer there. Feralhouse.com, I think it is, and it's probably the fastest way to do that if you're interested.

Speaker 6: How many books have you written now? Boblet and said.

Speaker 3: Now maybe something like. That and they have they have three or four of them there, yeah?

Speaker 6: How many? OK.

Speaker 3: They're all fabulous. You want to buy them all.

Speaker 6: I was wondering if you would donate one to.

Speaker 3: Let's check it out.

Speaker 6: The cause for me.

Speaker 3: Well, why don't you? Why don't you give me a give me a e-mail OK when we can pursue this. I'm a Jay-Z primitivat Gmail. OK can you give. Me a give me a line OK? OK, see you later. All right, she's got. Oh let's that's going to be a we're going to have a short reading in just a second here. Another fine way to. Wind up the show. Let me just. Mentione more. One more tech thing, this the cover of the current Wired magazine, wired for September Apocalypse, not climate collapse, mass starvation, deadly pandemics. Get a grip by Matt Ridley. So yeah, everything's fine, everything's just fine there. They are looking at their own. Fantasy and one more from the current issue of wired. Another IBM add another. Let's build a smart planet. This one really gets me how to build a car fueled by software. When you look at the Chevrolet Volt, are you looking at steel and plastic or are you looking at software? That's right, it's just software. It doesn't. It doesn't ruin the planet systematically to build cars. No, it's just software. These people are just sickening and the lies are just so stupendously crazy I. Mean doesn't they think anybody? Going to swallow that anyway? OK, we're going to go out with. The fabulous poem here.

Speaker 4: For Robert Coles Children of the dream. Ask doctor America. How do the futures threats and schemes to trade away your baby's dreams? Humans were once with nature when one was the sum of its parts, buying and selling takes it away tomorrow against today. Buying and selling tore it apart man against man against womand man Nature was once in theart. The business of business is war for a war by it and sell it, steal it possess it. Nature was once in theart. The business of business is master and slave mind over matter. Mind against nature takes it apart. Take matters into your hands mind into your minds hands. Take mind into your matters, hands into your matters mind. And credit to Janet Campbell Hale's ancestress Child of the never known Earth. I am one orphan brother with my brothers with my sisters on a river of overturning boats. May these orphan generations swim ashore. Child who cannot stand except to walk the miles on gravel, shoulders mark the years from stories. Lost in cities. Climbed the curbs of suburbs. Father mother country. Never knew its phantom Earth child of the never known mind. I am one waking to forget one, sleeping to remember dying, living under gleaming towers, rising towers, falling over smoke and noise. Ask my brothers. Lost our fathers asked my sisters lost our mothers, brothers, fathers, sisters. Mothers was our family of orphans at the end of a beginning or begin again. The ending did we always sit in circles? Did we think of silent language? Did we light the fires, trace our shadows on stone walls? Did we drink the wind and sing the rain?

Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you to please join us next week. Catherine and Carol myself. We'll be back here at 7:00 o'clock next Tuesday.

09-04-2012

[audio]

Conventions, droughts, drones, shootings, organics. Individualists Tending to the Wild collection. Call from Massachusetts. "The Sea" reading, poem by Ant.

Speaker 1: Chair of the music director at PO Box 3157 Eugene, OR 97403. All genres are accepted. Make sure you include contact information. Once again, send your submissions to KWVA radio care of the music director and PO Box 3157 Eugene, OR 97403. Send KWV, a Eugene your music and you may. Just hear it on the air. Kwva Eugene plays local music.

Speaker 2: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 3: You know?

Speaker 4: No, it's not. No, no, that was. Ah yeah. Get anything you. Nora whole thing is over all those beauties in solid motion, all those beauties.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 4: Swallow you up, Mr. One time. It's hotter than the sun.

UNKNOWN: Brave black man.

Speaker 4: I am the lover. The whole thing.

Speaker 2: Radio September 4th Summer is still going strong. It's 80s, just outstanding, just lovely. But we get some news. We get some readings just going to see how it plays out tonight. I might read part of the see the last thing I wrote or half of it. Or none of it. First of all, let's just do some news. And see what else we get to. We're going to have a reading. At the end of the show. I know that'll be good, so OK, several things happened last Thursday, thanks to the Obama government. On Thursday, for starters, the Justice Department announced that there would be no criminal charges about CIA torture. And of course, that goes along with quite a few other little breaches. Goes along with pro. Fracking goes along. Lots of things also. Thursday The decision to allow. Preparatory drilling by shell up in the Arctic. The Chuchi, seeing also controversial, but this hardly a surprise, and also on Thursday this didn't come to light until Saturday. The US government has decided to stop training those Afghan forces because they tend to turn their guns on. American troops Yeah, the intense surge of insider killings by Afghan forces against their western trainers just a little hard to take. Meanwhile, there is something called drones plus you might have heard about this an. App for iPhones. Cooked up by 1 Josh Bigley grad student guy,, this this shows you world that all the drone strikes have happened and Apple pulled the plug on this. They've rejected this software inappropriate, and it's not, and it falls under the wording as I understand it of. What generally is? Cut off because it's too graphic or it could be top secret. This not none of those things, it's just dots on a map. And thisn't exactly secret information. It doesn't, it's just, it's just. Apple being part of the government I guess. Well, Sir, there was a convention last week and there is another convention that started today. I thought one of the interesting things about the repubs was how few people were watching. 23 point plunge. And ratings that was at their wind up thing and it turns. Out that the. Of the people that were watching. Watching on the big screen, the great majority were 55 or older, so that's good. But all the articles, all the all. The mediabout this points out that, well, there was a lot of social media happening. There's all kinds of streaming and tweeting, but actually this there's been a decline in viewership. For political conventions for a good 20 years, so that's only. Part of it and I don't know there’s any number of things one could point out for one thing, how tightly scripted and controlled these things are, nobody. Thinks they're. Really seeing anything and, well, that's probably not totally new, is it? But it's just more. More phony and the one that started tonight. At the Time Warner Cable's Convention Center, the Barack Obama speech on Thursday, I'm pretty sure it's Thursday will be at the Bank of America Stadium. So that's all you need. To know It strikes me about that. Let's not waste any more. Time and Speaking of social media. More thinking of the face. Flagship, I hate Facebook. They stock continues to go down all these articles. Facebook shares hit new lows blurry future for Facebook and this bizarro this Saturday. The comic strip Bizarro. The dad pokes his head into the daughters room and says I'm worried about you, sweetie. We're you're too old to have imaginary friends and she says it's called Facebook dad, but no, they're imaginary, aren't they? Well Friday. Friday the 31st, it was a blue moon. And what accompanies this? The well, we have this web-based slew space camera which showcases those live views. And of course, the point is why go outside when you can get the great real time observation the screen. It's always much better, and the drought news crops india wilt in a weak monsoon. Season and just more and more. And more predictions, more reports on the intensification, the predictions in the coming decades. More drying out because of climate change and how crops are devastated all around the world this year. According to World Meteorological Organization and many other. Many other groups. Oh I overlooked one thing. Speaking of the conventions, yeah, I want to stick this in. There was an interview with Noam Chomsky in the September. Issue of Z magazine. This. This absolutely no surprise. It was about it's roughly about. Politics and administration political administration. In a general sense and in a. In a more specific sense, it winds up with the question what are your recommendations to voters in this election? Vote in Chomsky the vaunted noted. Flag bearing anarchist city as voters can have most impact on Election Day or any day by dedicating themselves to efforts that will mobilize popular forces to achieve important ends. Does that make any sense? That by voting in mobilized popular forces, no it doesn't. But here's the punch. Line As for voting. My feeling is that the Republican Organization today is extremely dangerous. Not just in this country, but to the world. It's worth expending some effort to prevent their rise to power without sowing illusions about the democratic. Alternatives, so you're urged to vote for the Democrat, but without slowing illusions. About the Democrats. That's another good trick. What a joke. This guy. This just straight up liberal nonsense just keeps elevating over it. Just keep playing the game and you could be anarchist like Noam Chomsky. Well, the shooting of the week early Friday. Ex Marine opened fire in camouflage gear at a supermarket, gunning down to Co workers ex coworkers before he killed himself. That'll have to. Do when you want to go. Way off finish shootings like we usually do. Well, we've got. We've got just to mention a few things that propose the general state of the biosphere. This a three page story, front page story. In the New York Times today, having to do with the fact that Africa is in the midst of an epic elephant slaughter. Yeah, and. This something came to light has actually happened in July. But a massacre of Yanomami YanomamIndians deep in the Amazon jungle by Brazilian gold miners. Another clash with indigenous groups mining, along with dams has just been. A fantastic onslaught against indigenous cultures indigenous lifeways on every continent. And I mentioned this last week I cited last week, the record melting of Arctic ice and then. The further the fact that this losing Arctic sea ice accelerates global warming, it isn't just that is accelerating, but that in itself. That is accelerating global warming. And ABC News on Sunday on Sunday, September. Second, had Peripherical called Michigand Bangalore. Global warming goes global. And talking about the records all over the world, driest on record, the continents beginning to dry out. The giant icebergs breaking off and the whole 9 yards, and here is what sounds like. A very good new book. The Great Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krause. This reported on as brand new. The Guardian out of England wrote about it. Bernie Krauss is Bernie Krauss that is a musiciand naturalist. He's talking about the sounds from. What is left of nature? What is left of wild nature? He spent 40 years now recording over 15,000 species. Some of which are gone. Now he's talking about the rate of species extinction. With specific focus on habitats that no longer exist because they've been so compromised by human noise. That's yeah, the great the vast orchestra of life. The chorus of the natural world is in the process of being quiet, quiet and. There has been a massive decrease in the density and diversity of key vocal creatures, both large and small. And I want to say, Speaking of books, this has just BeenVerified as much as. It can be. Enrico Manicare's book freed from Civilization, will be out in January. That's the. That's the focus. That's the due date as we understand it, the. Target date from Little black card and that's going pretty darn well. That's a major. Project this the big fat A-Z anti civilization book. Just the word on. And books and just as randomly. Your AP story from Friday the 31st. In Idaho Eastern Idaho, rivers and streams. State fisheries biologists reporting an increase in the number of mountain whitefish dying deaf is troubling. They don't. Know why when? More of those things, but some good news here. Manufacturing is down. In Asiand in Europe, so maybe we're getting a little. Break here slowdown in orders, its factories in Chinall over the place, eurozone contraction, et cetera. And here's an article. This probably not the last word on this, but today in the New York Times big story by Kenneth Chang, Stanford scientists cast doubt on advantages of organic meat and produce. The upshot of this. It’s analysis of 237 studies. It's like this mega study and the bottom line is that organic food. Organic fruits and vegetables are on average, no more nutritious than their conventional counterparts. Which tend to be far less expensive now, nor are they any less likely to be contaminated by dangerous bacteria like E. This a little bit shocking. I think the deeper reality not to go into detail with this, but I think with the deep reality is that you have massive fried monoculture domestication. The industrial scale. The globalized nature, whether it's organic or not, even though I do find it surprising that there would be no advantage to. To eating food that isn't sprayed, it's yeah. This the bottom line on this. I know that since I'm on the loan, by the way, Stanford is known for having a right wing slant on a lot of a lot of folks there. It's well known. It's the only. It's the only sort of top ranked school that does have that slant, so I. Don't know if. You if there are no effects from pesticides. And if large scale conventional farming is the same as large scale organic farming, and that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about some tiny patch somewhere. I guess this. Is this? The public, the general. When we talk about organic, what's labeled organic and is available at large. So again, we'll probably hear more about that. And one more thing, this from today's Wall Street Journal, how to live high on the hog during a drought. You could guess that's the Wall Street Journal that's. And yeah, the pigs that they are. This part of their piece here. In economic terms, livestock are farmyard refineries, converting grainto protein. That's a lovely way to put it, huh? Yeah, . And this how you can. You know manipulate hog futures and so forth and. And just come out just. Fine, even though a lot of people are hurting. Just dandy. Before the break, and this just meant to be a little bit of an intro thing I’m really hoping. To encourage discussion and open this up, by the way 541685413460645 do. Call us, we're going to have some a post Meebo thing.

Speaker 3: So we got the secret word the advance. Notice that there's there will be a new chat system.

Speaker 6: At the website in just a couple. Of weeks 3-4 weeks maybe.

Speaker 2: That would be great. Good, yeah, that'll be good to give have that happen.

Speaker 1: Let's say a month so to give us time to get used to it and figure out what works.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't have the bugs. OK, I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, we just got the word. Just minutes ago.

First ITS mention

Well, I wanted to just kick off a few comments. And not quite chosen at random, but I'm I want to say that. I don't want this to be taken as some big overview that I'm absolutely wedded to. I'm talking about a new book. A small book called “the collected communiques of individualists tending toward the wild”. And this was published by “War on society” with an introduction by someone called “plain words”. This is in Spanish, this is from Mexico.

Individual laudes teniendo alo salvay. Let's just call it ITS for short and again that's Individuals Tending toward the Wild, or it could be translated as Individualists Tending toward the Wild. I tend to think that's a little less confusing because individualist. As a member of historical political. At least may or may not apply.

So, what we have here is 100 and 10 pages, and these people truly are the eirs of Ted Kaczynski. They have sent bombs to various high tech people. With the special focus, it seems like on nanotech people, they killed a nanotech chief engineer about a year ago. So this is pretty heavy stuff and this is rare material this stuff. I think it really should be debated. And I do think back to the Unabomber days, when that was especially in 1995 just before Ted Kaczynski was captured. There was quite a widespread public discussion, fairly widespread. Not enormous, but and I'm hoping that this might kick that off again. And I don't suppose that as the earlier case, there is any real way to separate the ideas from the violence? That's the whole question itself. But I think that these folks clearly are vehemently anti technology and I just want to mention just a couple of things here. Maybe for further discussion I'm going to read something from. The very first communique, which was only last April April 2011, and they're talking about some of their some of their actions and what they have in mind. With this action we conducted, we have not struck powerfully at the mega machine and we are aware that with this we have not changed anything. Maybe the state or federal police now protect the university community. Maybe Nanotechnologists will realize that we see them as enemies. Perhaps the state of Mexico will begin more in depth investigations, but nothing more. And we say this because we know that all the efforts we make against the techno industrial system are useless. We have seen the immensity of this great massive metal and concrete, and we realize that all we ever do at one time or another will not stop progress and less so if there are still false radicals and left to struggles that. Name at the destruction of a target but have not yet noticed, nor have not viewed beyond that. All this does not do anything. Some may think that this pessimistic that we have fallen into defeatism, but no, if we had fallen into these traps of civilization would not be making explosives for technology staff. We say this rather because it is the reality and we know that reality hurts. What is needed is. To hit hard. From within a Unabomber list ideat the system that's a question to put nanobiotechnology telecommunication industry. Electricity, computers, oil in our city. And if we strike them unanimously with others in different countries, all that what would happen? Would we deter anything? Civilization is collapsing and a new world will be born through the efforts of anti civilization warriors. Please let us see the truth plant our feet on the ground and let leftism and illusions fly from our minds, the revolution. And never existed, nor have revolutionaries. Those those who view themselves as potential revolutionaries and seek a radical anti technology shift are truly being idealistic and irrational because none of that exists in this dying world. Only individual autonomy, capitalized exists and it is for this that we fight and all though. All this useless and futile. We prefer to be defeated in war against total domination than to remainert, passive waiting or as part of all this. We prefer to position ourselves on the side of wild faunand flora that remain. We prefer to return to nature, respect her absolutely and abandon the cities to maintain our claim as anti civilization warriors. We prefer to continue the war that we have declared years ago, knowing that we will lose, but promising ourselves that we will give our greatest. OK, now that is a mouthful and I just. I just seem to see that there’s really a lot of despair around, and then it could hardly be a great. Shock, but to absolutely rule out any change. It really strikes me as then you have this sort of private existential of. Sort of thing. Which I applaud, by the way, I have for. Well, we need to sort that out a little. Bit as well. But knowing that we will lose. I mean, you don't know that if you but you're making it so by declaring that you are contributing to that. And by the way I was talking to my friend about a friend of mine about this the other evening. And she said that. Part of the problem may be. In, in terms of well in terms of even criticizing these texts and this whole approach, that winning or losing is somehow a false choice or a false formulation. To even talk about winning or losing, but,, I’m confused by that as well. I have to admit, because I know what I mean by winning or losing. Losing is the continued existence of this suicidal. This whole ruin is dominant order and which gets more negative and unhealthy. And crazy all the time, and winning would obviously be putting it into. And I haven't given up on seeing an end to it. I think it's. Not as all powerful as some of these people seem to think, and you that you throw in the towel before you even started. I’m maybe. I need to. I'd like to hear more from other people about this and maybe for one thing simply to grok if it's absolutely hopeless then. You're you’re killing people and risking your freedom in your life for what? I don't really quite get that. And also I would say that there's something really ultra rationalist about this that I'm just put off a little bit by again though, I. You know, for a long time now I've been pretty vehemently anti tech myself. And when? A lot of people ran for cover during the Unabomber days before he was captured. Did not want to discuss the ideas. Did not even want to discuss the ideas out of fear there were there were not so many people who did so. I think there's this implication that you are somehow leftist or civilized if you don't accept that we're simply screwed. Full stop, period. No, I don't accept that, and I'm not a leftist. Anyway, there's something they even use. They even capitalize the word reason at times which.

Speaker 6: I don't know.

Speaker 2: You don't have to be in a rationalist to wonder about that. That's very anti spiritual. It's rather I don't know. It's rather cold, rather masculinist and I don't know why that's necessary. I don't know how that fits in with the rest of it, and maybe other people read this differently. I'm I hope they do actually because I’m not bringing this up to trash it, but I'm just a little. Mystified, I think they're critique. All the way through is on target, if you pardon the pun, I really do I think they their focus on nanotechnology just for just for a detail is part of edge stuff. You attack at the strongest point the more. Insidious and deeply colonizing point, I think that’s just fine, and I wonder. Maybe other again, can people can come in and they do proclaim their solidarity with other people and other imprisoned fighters who are anarchists and. Perhaps still all too leftist, and I would even say that. Not that I think everybody's leftist. I really don't. But anyway, this whole thing is just fascinating and I do think that, among other things, this could be. This could be somewhat momentous, even. Yeah, I don't know if it was a coincidence. When the when the Unabomber's ideas became prominent behind the fact that he killed three people, let's face it, and injured quite a number of others. It didn't take too much time after that there were a lot of folks, especially a lot of young folks that started. Realizing that you could do something and not that they were sending bonds to people, I'm not in favor of mailing bonds to people, but I'm not so sure that there wasn't some connection between. The this these ideas bursting out in the open and. And a certain upsurge that happened within a couple of years or so. I certainly saw. That here in Eugene, quite frankly I saw kids who totally got what Kaczynski was writing about industrial society and its future. They totally grasp that, and at that point I thought something really interesting could be starting or not. I mean there because there were some signs already and what we generally referred to now. As anti globalization. It didn't last that long. That was just a few years, but it was. It was significant. And it started a deepening in terms of the critique and the vision. It seems to me I just hope we're not at. The place now where. Where people? More often than not, might go on fighting with no hope whatsoever. That's I don't think that's necessary. So please, if I may bring this up next week, or you might bring this up next week, or you might call us tonight and. And weigh in if you've you're familiar with this phenomenon, whether you're familiar with this little book, which is quite new or not. All right, I think we're going to take a break. Be back catch you soon.

Speaker 5: Over heavy on the side to 12. Misty mountain. I walked in a crawl on 6 cricket highways. I've stepped in the middle of seven sat, farest. I've been in front of a dozen dead oceans and it's hard. And it's hard, and it's hard. It's hot and it's hot. Is it gonna fall? What did he see? My blue eyes are and what did you see? My darling young one. Baby with wild wolves all around it. I saw a highway of. Diamonds with nobody on it. I saw a black branch with blood that. Kept dripping I saw. Room for men with the hammers of bleeding. I saw 10,000 talkers. Whose tongues were all broken. Guns and shops. Swords in the hands of young children. And it's a heart. And it's hard. And it's hard. It's hard, and it's hard. It's gonna fall. Oh, what did you hear my blue eyes? And what did you hear, my darling Young 1 the sound of the Thunder that roared out? A warning. And the waves that could drown the whole world. I heard 100 drummers whose hands were ablazing or 10,000 whispering nobody's listening. I heard one person stop. I heard many people laughing. I heard the songs. In the poet. Who died in the gutter? Heard the sounds of a clown who cried in the alley and it's hard and it's a hard and it's a hard. And it's hard, and it's hard. It's gonna fall. Oh, who did you meet my blue eyed son? And who did you meet, my darling young one? I'm a young child of inside a dead pony. I met a white man who walked a black dog. I met a young woman whose body was burning. I met a young girl she gave me rainbow. I met one man who was wounded in love. I met another man who was wounded in hatred and it's hard, and it's hard. And it's hard, and it's hard, and it's hard. It's gonna fall. Oh, I need you now. My blue eyes. And what are you doing now? Darling young one? I'm going back out for the rain starts to falling. Our head full the depths of the deep.

Speaker 2: I can somebody's. On the line. Yes, Keith.

Speaker 6: Yeah my on yeah.

Speaker 3: Go ahead.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I'd like to ask what's your opinion is on the rule of.

Speaker 6: Psychiatry and civilization. And if it. Does anything to sort of? Perpetuate this world system that we're living that we're living under is I’ve sort of noticed that. It almost functions as like a sort of hidden like thought police or emotion police, where people like feel things that. For outside the reservation, so to speak. They're like, they're persecuted in a sense, or if they think in certain ways. That are considered abnormal. Then they're persecuted like a lot of the people who might be classified as schizophrenic by like a psychiatrist would probably have been considered like a shaman or something like that. But some of these indigenous tribes. Just curious what your thoughts are on that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's a big question. That of course there is a huge amount of psychic pain there's. There's so much anxiety there's rising autism and there's depression and. There's just so many people people are enduring so much It’s hardly surprising that people turn to heavy drugs. Even with all these side effects. I mean, that's what that's really what psychiatry or that field in general is now. It's just dispense. And all these more or less addictive drugs to people. Just, 10s of 1,000,000 and we see that just invading a lot of different spheres where people can't sleep without drugs. They can't. Males can't have sex without drugs and again the addictive. Aspect of all this, it's just. People are trying to cope. I mean I know a lot. I bet we both know. I bet everybody knows somebody who. Is debilitated by depression or whatever it is mostly depression. That's probably one of the. Big standout things, so I mean I'm not going to sit here and say, well you shouldn't shouldn't have anything for that, but. Of course, that's not the solution, it's the what society is it that the genders so much disease so much? Ill health and stress and then the whole thing. You know it's just. It's the picture is. It's not going to be solved by psychiatry or all the different strengths. I mean, I'm not saying they don't do any good, but as I think this just a, it just opens out onto the whole. The question of how society gets this way and how it could be some other way.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that’s sort of my feelings on it as well. Like I just know that like one of my friends he. He like, he ended up going to like a psychiatrist and ever since he's been on this medication that they're giving him for so-called bipolar disorder. He just hasn't been like the same person like he used to make jokes a lot and stuff and now his emotions have just sort of like flatlined. And I mean I'm not like. Entirely sure what he was going through, but. I like him better, but before he sort of resorted to this what he had to resort to. And I just wish.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and. That's why people drop the drugs. You know they don't keep taking their meds because they have this flattened affect. You know they. They become reduced to in a way to cope with the extremes of their condition, . So the it's no surprise why people. You know we end up going off their meds. Well, thanks a lot man. Thanks a lot. And yeah, if you've got any more on the subject you can share with us.

Speaker 6: But not, not really. At the moment I mean. Like the subject has really just come to like before front of the. Stuff that I'm looking at. Due to this experience that I've been having with this close friend of mine and it's just been sort of disturbing and. And so, and I've and I've. And I've read some of your stuff before and it got me thinking like, well, what's what's the like? What's the role? Of civilization in this sort of situation where some people feel they have to resort to this or how is this even developed to begin with? I mean, it's the questions that I've been really been not. Grappling with recently.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Heavy waters, well, good luck, good luck. We're all trying to. Bringing these things out and be of help to people that are in pain and or. Whatever their variety of pain is.

Speaker 3: We're all, we're all.

Speaker 2: Under the gun and it. But some of us are luckier, luckier than others, I think. Take care.

Speaker 6: All right, thanks.

Speaker 2: I think for right now I'm going to read. Half of my most recently I mentioned it before the C. Maybe get to the other half next week. I think we'll have more time than that. Simply called the C's last remaining layer of unparalleled wildness. Too big to fail. The whole world is being objectified, but Melville reminds us of all that remains there. You stand lost in the infinite series of the sea. What could be more tangible, more of a contrast with being lost in the digital world where we feel we can never properly come to grips with anything? Oceans are about time more than space quote, as if there were a correlation between going deep and going back. The deep is solemn linking in some way, all that has come before last things and first things. Heaven in quotes, by comparison, is thin and faintly unserious. All over. The face of Earth main ocean flowed, announced the poem by John Milton. Given its 71% predominance on this planet, why is our world called Earth instead of sea? Much of the land in fact, could be defined as literal areas where land sea meet the sea is a textured place infinite in its moods, forms, energies and not so easily detected. But we see what happens when culture is privileged over place. The sea, where all life began, just the sight of 4 billion years ago, must still sustain. Thus, not only are its waters the original source of life, it also shapes the climate, weather and temperature of the planet and therefore the status of terrestrial species. Conte saw truth as akin to an island surrounded by a stormy sea. Water might run wildly and drown. Reason chaos disorder were always to be feared and brought into control. In Milton's paradise. The sea is chafing under restraint, suggesting that it can yield truth. When freed, the power of nature is to be respected, not domesticated. We come to life and water in the amniotic fluid, blood and tears are salty like the sea, menstrual cycles like the tides and the maternal sea. Are mother the sea? Is mountains rolling? Sometimes calm and tempered for swinburne's quote the storm sounds only more notes of more delight, so many qualities even. Phosphorine phosphorescent at times. As I have seen on the Sea of Cortez. The seascape shows a magnificent array of fluctuating aspects and energies. John Ruskin found there in. To all human minds, the best emblem of Unwearied unconquerable power. The wild, various fantastic tameless unity of the sea. If the earth is alive, the oceans are its most living parts. The sea whispers croons bellows in its unnumbered moods, always the ground node of the planets under song, as George Sterling put it. The very pulse of the sea, not only its perpetual motion. Has us imagining that is drawing breath. Inspirations and exhalations of a living if unimaginably vast animal. Many have written of the seas a fellow creature. Malcolm Lowry recorded this meditation. Each drop into the sea is like a life. I thought each producing a circle in the ocean or the medium of life itself and widening into Infinity. In the deep there is beauty in music. The sweeping surge of it is a matchless strength. The tireless spirit of freedom writing in his journal in 1952, Thomas Merton noted that every wave of the sea is free. We might seek a heart like the sea ever open and at Liberty Loren Eiseley decided that if there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. Why does running water, even a fountain or an aquarium sewer or even. Far, far more potent and comparable as the spell of the ocean. I was born in the breezes and I have studied the seas perhaps few men have studied it. Neglecting all else, Joshua Slocum revealed in his late 19th century account, sailing alone around the world. For many, the sea demands a deep loyalty prompted by sheer wonder and the promise of peak experiences, a sense of being fully animal and fully alive, ocean hearted, the sea staggering presence presence is pure openness brings on very powerful sensations. Rambo perhaps went furthest in trying to capture it in words. I have recovered it. What eternity? It is the sea matched with the sun. As the young Joyce evoked to see. The South, the clouds were drifting above himself, and silently. The sea tangle was drifting below him, and the Gray warm air was still and a wild new life was singing in his veins, on and on and on. He strode far, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had. Cried to him. The sea, our deepest origin, calls to us Seaborn. We are drawn C word Alan Corbin discussing the work of Adolf de Costine. Recounts the latter's orientation toward that which quote instinctively relates to our origins. Namely, that the site of the open sea contributes to the discovery of the deep inner self. There is an exulting and revelatory experience possible in such a confrontation with the omens we are humbled at the shore on the waves. Our presence of question. The completeness and certainty of nature makes life bearable, less anguished, as Richard Nelson has written. When I was a small child at mid century, our families sometimes drove W about 60 miles to visit my dad's brother Ed on the Central Oregon coast. My brother and I competed to be the first to see the oceand cry I. See it, it was the thrill to catch that first glimpse every time. About 30 years later, I came back to Oregon from Californiand worked in Newport at a shrimp cannery near places called Boiler Bay and Devil's Punch Bowl. I don't think it's surprising that one can feel giddy at the massive site. The Pacific encompasses fully 1/3 of the globe's 64 million square miles, twice the size of the Atlantic. The absolute anti monumental there of it. It is not true. Is it not true that we're all somehow called to the sea by its lure, persuasion, gravity, until he was 40, John Ruskin was drawn to have quote merely stared all day at the tumbling and creaming strength of the sea. A century later, Robert Frost wrote the people. Along the sand all turn and look one way. They turn their back on the land. They look at the seall day. Where every wave is different and theart and soul expand. Lauren Isley felt the Gulf of Mexico pulling himself forward as he lazed in the Platte River, and more than that quote I was water. In 1826, Henry expressed a similar union. I love the sea. Is my soul often? It seems to me. That the sea really is my soul. Swimming in the ocean involves an intimate immensity. To borrow a term from Gaston Bachelard, it connects with vastness. And is inward yet also a vigorous and robust experience. There can be challenges and perils, of course. Robert Louis Stevenson. Described a Hawaiian woman who swam for 9 hours in. A high sea. Carrying the body of her husband home. Albert Kamuk invited. I have always felt I lived on the high seas, threatened at theart of a royal happiness. OK, I think. I think I'll read the get to the next half of it next week. Two weeks Council will be here. Well, we're going to close with the reading and we may have just a little bit of time left, but that's OK, yeah? OK, here let's let's switch chairs. I think you got a faulty chair there. Why don't you just sit here and Cory and Carl's better to have two mics working?

Speaker 3: Hi that which begets. That which destroys. That which begets the intent to destroy. That which intends to begets it to destroy. Did peace ever come? Take our country back. Some say from this absent presence. From the futures lie, every creature under clock face every stick man has its smoky sun. Where is the back to take it to in multitasking quantum time? Where's front? Where's back our country take our country took your dreams and sold you back. To country back to Indian Indian country, country, Indian, whose Indian in country whose country indian no Indian in country. No country indiand Indian. No country and country. No Indian. Take it back through all ghost ancestors. Dig up the graves, put dust in the museums. Take us all the way back into and before every false nation stole torch for the harbor. No welcoming, no myth. Making for occupiers for conquerors. My father had some little books I heard but did not read the words of war. My father was a soldier who came back to tell his stories how to disbelieve in heroes, buy and sell our evil buy and sell our good. They kill you, you kill them. Good men, bad men, good men, bad men. Kill you, you kill them. For the two cities hard rain burning rivers wrong voyage Gunter Anders was sentenced to obscure old age in federal mental hospital because he wrote a little book had flown, a plane had dropped, a bomb had banked the giant plane away, but felt theat. But saw the light that burns all blind men's eyes who looked toward a no man's son. A cloud rose 10 miles high. A cloud became a symbol. These are wars forever not to wind. Whole truth will not be told and now this story is old bleach white. The bone of conscience, whose not ours, not theirs, burn shadows into stone. You don't believe it's one man's nightmare. He rose perfect memory. His guilt, let's call it moral genius, lost to all but one. Shut up, go back to work, be bored, to die of disbelief, then make your reparations in the hills. Good men, bad men good men bad men kill you. You kill them, they kill you, you kill them. I sat in the last seat of the back row, barricaded my desk with piles of books I did not read and could not hear and slept through every jailhouse class and high school boot camp. San Diego turned to listen for the little birds who played and sang and flew between the pepper trees. Brazilian in their timeless every day. No work, all play in 1955. I felt the roar of Navy jets outside and overhead our endless drone of inside propaganda high school education. Not no wise men for a fool like me imagined I was one to hide and run like rabbit from the bad boys. BB guns and curses. Imagined I was one among coyotes over Mesa, down the canyons, up the boulder covered hillsides lemonberry homelands. Imagined I was one to hide and run, get sick, go home from jailhouse school, leave bullies in their hallways, chant, intimidate their victims, beat the bad boys drums. I dreamed that I was one to hide and run from every five day morning. Puffy eyed through workaholic ears, too shy to say hello I dreamed the pretty girls. The worst was yet to come under a smoky sun. I heard a thundering sky of Navy jets over our endless drone of inside propane. Amanda, Imagined I was one to hide and run. After the fallout drifted S conquerors, conquered and conquer.

Speaker 5: There's a lady who show.

Speaker 4: All it glitters is gold.

Speaker 5: And she's buying the stairway.

Speaker 7: She gets there, she knows.

Speaker 5: The stores are.

UNKNOWN: All closed.

Speaker 7: With the what she can get? Watch king.

08-28-2012

[audio]

Conventions and unreality. Neil Armstrong--adventurer? "Another Day, Another Workplace Shooting." Bison calls: excellent front-line report. Action news, techno-ads of the week.

08-21-2012

[audio]

Kathan's back! Her report from Rome. All-over news: army suicides record, U.S. anxiety levels, the corpse of unionism, worsening weather, etc. The specter of anarcho-primitivism, action news.

08-14-2012

[audio]

Alice and JZ discuss England trip (e.g. Raven Row Gallery event and outlook, London aspects). Dark Mountain: has it thrown in the towel, like Desert? World news.

08-07-2012

[audio]

Jacob and The Bird take the reins. Message from Syrianarchist. Grand Jury doings in the Northwest, update on Species Traitor #5 (call from Kevin Tucker). Tech and environmental news/comments.

07-31-2012

[audio]

JZ absent, Wylden Freeborne at the wheel. Calls for most of the hour, discussion of anxiety and its negative effects on our ability to live free. Report from Australian caller on Wild Roots, Feral Futures

07-24-2012

[audio]

Cliff at the ready. Aurora CO massacre-any learning curve? Call from Kansas City. Global capers. Ads of the week, action news.

07-17-2012

[audio]

Managing the dominant order. Eco-disasters roll out, so do the shootings: two sides of the same coin. 'God particle' or function of massive technology? Call from Texas. Resistance news.

07-10-2012

[audio]

With media prof Chris Robe. Weekly news. Industrial weather, industrial 'health' (isolation, drug epidemics, shootings). Anarchy in Florida, two calls. Resistance news. Mickey Mouse in North Korea.

07-03-2012

[audio]

Hedges, Jensen's new low, Occupy vs. De-Occupy, Asian Spring? Extreme weather. Report from Feral Roots, 2 other calls, MEEBOs. Action news.

06-26-2012

[audio]

Postmodern complicity, Jensen complicity. End of Arab Spring, end of Occupy? Drones, debris, droughts, digital deadness. Action news, tech saves us!

06-19-2012

[audio]

Bye, bye, Occupy (my date with Occupy). Rio + 20, solar industry, loneliness. Ads, books. Desert, Chomsky (desert of Enlightenment). Action news, MEEBOs, 2 calls.

06-12-2012

[audio]

Guest: Occupy Eugene's David Sierralupe. Indiana law: OK to shoot cops. Suicides/rampages, Ray Bradbury R.I.P., happiness levels, big fires. Anarchy and Occupy. Action news.

06-05-2012

[audio]

Me and Karl. Shootings, fracking, over-heating, advertising - 'new highs.' Announcements. God Save the Queen. Resistance is spreading, leftism is dying. More Ads of the Week. One call, MEEBOs.

05-29-2012

[audio]

Memorial Day fascism, continuing/spreading malignancy. Cliff here: Critchley, Zizek, Jensen; also Bristol robotics dystopia. Action news, tasty MEEBOs.

05-22-2012

[audio]

Kathan with us, pre-Rome. Seas still rising but not Facebook; ads of the week. Much discussion of anarchist upsurge and Occupy. Resistance news. Michael Becker call, many MEEBOs

05-15-2012

[audio]

Me and Karl. News: beaches bye-bye, binges, bullies, bozo ads. Occupy and anarchy, actions here and there, techno-follies. Many MEEBOs; sorry, insufficient time to get to all of them.

05-08-2012

[audio]

With Kathan. Perverse news. May Day news and opinion, Black Bloc victories. Action round-up. New films, blogs, events. MEEBOs.

05-01-2012

[audio]

May Day! Drone/empire/police state/hunger/enviro news. New books, action bits, (De-) Occupy, techno-reality. Good MEEBOs.

04-24-2012

[audio]

Kathan here. Wisconsin gigs, Amazing News. Loneliness of cyberspace. Action news, two calls, MEEBOs.

04-10-2012

[audio]

Chris Hedges spews again, is exposed. General Strike fantasy for Occupy. Umatilla rewilding project. Anxiety, isolation, industrial earthquakes, Google glasses insanity. Computer culture as terminal undermining of thought and poetry (George Steiner). One call, several MEEBOs.

04-03-2012

[audio]

Cliff on show. Calamity news. Progress vs. uncontacted people. Next Nature, entropy and complexity, the new Matrix (surveillance machines). Neurosis explained. Action news. MEEBOs.

03-27-2012

[audio]

Political science conference in Portland. "Tragic news," lots of high-tech/social network developments. Excellent Michael Becker tune, action news. Two calls, MEEBOs.

03-20-2012

[audio]

Kathan present. Even more shootings, extreme weather, major industrial assaults, drug technology frauds. Occupy. Action reports! AGAINST ECOLOGICAL SOVEREIGNTY by Mick Smith. Debilitating immersion in technology. Wiring problem prevented calls. "Arrowhead Laser Pointer"!

03-13-2012

[audio]

45-minute broadcast due to sports coverage run-over. Afghan shooting massacre--and domestic ones. Challenge to Jensen: open discussion in Madison. New novels, action news. Four calls from several states; MEEBOs, too.

03-06-2012

[audio]

News, the Lorax, K-pop. More on India, Occupy. My anti Hedges/Jensen "Vagaries of the Left." Action reports. Lotsa MEEBO.

02-28-2012

[audio]

News bits. INDIA trip. Occupy. Action reports, announcements. Parting shot at Chris Hedges/Derrick Jensen. Many MEEBOs, one call (Florida).

02-14-2012

[audio]

JZ still india, Wylden Freeborne and Will Feral filling in. Some calls, some meebos and a lot of ranting on the mind control of domestication, killer cops, federal raids for "computer crimes" in Portland.

02-07-2012

[audio]

JZ india, Wylden Freeborne filling in. More progressive garbage from Hedges and Jensen discussed. Critical response from caller. Laylabdel-Rahim (http://layla.miltsov.org) guest caller from Montreal, Quebec, discusses the myths of civ, the lie of civ safe space and the wildness of Black Bloc. Update on Wild Roots Feral Futures, 2012 www.feralfutures.blogspot.com. Music by Di Nigunim and Hayduke Lives!

01-31-2012

[audio]

Revealing news from all over. Occupy Eugene: its promise and internal enemies. Viva Tango Down and the Vagilutionaries! Action clips, ads of the week, life coaches. MEEBOs and call from New Hampshire.

01-24-2012

[audio]

Kathan at the ready. News observations, Occupy viewpoints and other politics (e.g. ABCs, Weinberg, Jensen). "Unfettered technological development [anonymous]," action news, MEEBOs.

01-17-2012

[audio]

Whirled news. Methodistss, industrial tourism, shootings, Occupy, Arundhati Roy. Action news, various Ads of the Week, MEEBOs.

01-10-2012

[audio]

News round-up. Conversation with Jamil, Occupy Eugene. Wired developments, action news.

01-03-2012

[audio]

News scan. 5th Estate, Sovereign Self, Insurgent. Action reports. Digital culture, Jensen culture, Occupy Eugene. Let's go 2012!

2011

12-27-2011

[audio]

Cliff here. Selected disaster news. D. Jensen's ultimate Fan Fundraiser. David Owen's Green Metropolis, Agamben's coming community. Action news and ads of the week.

12-20-2011

[audio]

Kathan here. My excellent Arizona trip (viz. O'odham benefit event). Facebook, end of privacy, digital imperialism. Fine Travis the Chimp story, Occupy updates, action news.

---

Comically sad real advert: Green, green, green. It's our home. It's our dream. Life and healthy and clean make it clean clean. My mom said making it green is making sure the air in your home is healthy for your family to breathe. Make sure you test your home. For radon, it's. Easy, just call 866730 green make it green, green, green.

Ronald Reagan: A message from the uscca. Let me tell you just a. Little something about the American Indian in our land. We have provided millions of acres of land. For what? Are called the preservations or the reservations I should. Say they from the beginning announced that they wanted to maintain their way of life. As they had. Always lived there in the desert and the plains and so forth. And we set up these reservations so they could and have a Bureau of Indian Affairs to help take care of them at the same time, we provide education for them. Schools on the reservations and they are free also to leave the reservations and be American citizens among the rest of us and many do some still. Prefer, however, that way of that early way of life. And we've done everything we can to meet their. Demands as to what? They how they want to live.

Maybe we made a mistake. Maybe we should not have humored him, in that wanting to stay in that primitive lifestyle. Maybe we should have. Said no, come join us, be citizens along with the rest of us as I say, many have many have been very successful. And I'm very pleased to meet with them. Talk with them at any time. And seeing what their grievances are or what they feel they might be, and you'd be surprised if some of them became very wealthy, because some of those reservations were overlaying great pools of oil and you can get very rich pumping oil. And the. So I don't know what their complaint might be, might be, might be.

Music: I've been trying to find. Gotta be. I gotta get away. I'm having inner vision of a place where no sin of prisons, real freedom, no inhibitions, life in abundance, no domination. Life lives amongst us. How it once was. Be and work with the trees of the storm coming just from the breeze till the wind. Blowing rain falls upon your skin showing. Realize how that man has been knowing the. Crime deterred us. Since I find the primal urges a place where no African nation not hear the dirt screaming bring down civilization, let me take shape to this land that you have made way from the valley to. Great, they I hear the stories of the place where everything is in the. People of majestic eagle. Sorry yes. Just give me your taste. I wanted to feel it. The bed. I gotta get away now. For extensive purpose no more than like you're less deserving. No more being intentioned service, every water for your toxins no more wants to keep us boxed and. No need to see. The exhilaration of the hunt, the deep emotions of the lovers touch are these instincts that made dawn. While our minds have nearly pink falling in this system, that's straightforward. I listened to the wise elders, they showed me the path where the lies led us. They showed me how to get back to the start, but first I'll have to end up with my heart. And no, then I'll hit my mom. They said it's worth the battle. Go for a child that Earth is fragile. Take what you need up with the earth of balance.

ZERZAN: Anarchy radio… on this deepest, darkest, longest night of the year. I'm not getting any volume on this thing.

CARL: Well, that’s cause you turn it way down cause because like you like.

ZERZAN: Oh, right, so you can turn it down. And now I can do it.

CARL: The music the music is.

UNKNOWN: So loud.

ZERZAN: I'm good sensitive ear pains.

ZERZAN: Yeah, that should be good.

ZERZAN: Thank you. Thank you very much. Carl always fixes everything Kevin is here.

KEVIN: I am here. I hear me in the headphones.

CARL: That was good luck for me.

ZERZAN: Or, you know, you can hear. Myself in the headphones, therefore I exist.

KEVIN: That's right.

ZERZAN: Well, first of all, thank you to Shane and Brian. Good good reports. They got bibos. They're probably rivaling us in the Meebo race.

CARL: Probably there were a lot of them. Last week, and let's get down. Here we'll be on Meebo here in. Just a second.

ZERZAN: OK, all right and let's see Cliff. Will be here. Next week and the website was down for a while. The domain name expired. And it was really gratifying that several people. We're aware of that and let me know so I can be aware of that and that, but apparently. They somebody couldn't just take the website name. Is it 30 day period or something like that? Or but I had no idea what's. Going on.

KEVIN: Which website yours whoa, you almost lost.

ZERZAN: John, there's another. Derek Johnson doing that? It just disappeared and people wanted to, and by the way that there was no recording. If you went to the website to catch last week's show December the 13th. For Shane and. Brian apparently wasn't a part. For them to do that, so we don't actually have it 5413460645. You know I wasn't here last week because I was in Tucson with Dan and Sharon and just want to say a few words about that. I just really am still. A glow over the. Over what went down there specifically on Saturday, Saturday night at Dry River Anarchist collective, December 10th. A really special occasion. It was a dinner and then speakers afterwards in the courtyard by the fire. Ophelia Rivas and her brother. Julian, who is an elder. And there was Julian Connie, who is who was. The chair of the African Studies Department at Arizona's a professor of classics. And he gave an amazing talk. a history talk. And brought us up to date with the situation of the Old Town. This is a benefit for them. They're facing corporate mining and now just very recently, this is another really ugly thing from Homeland Security of little project called the Integrated Fixed towers. And it's the office of technological acquisitions and innovation. Part of Homeland Security. 14 This is the idea here that apparently they've already got the tribal governments to sign on to. 14 surveillance towers with all kinds of capacities, cameras and sensors, and. The whole thing. And it's a funny thing that half of these seven of these towers are in a district where. Ophelia lives and it's. It's going to be peering over her shoulder. The police state to looking on even more. Well, the event was was just terrific. It was just a really special thing. I don't. I do not remember being at a more important event. What Churchill? By the way, couldn't make it. He did not arrive. He had minor surgery earlier in the week and thought he'd be able to fly. From Denver after that, but he wasn't ready to do it so. And everybody expressed their concern and missing him. Here's something I wanted to. Then we go into this a little more next week, but censored news, which is a really indispensable source of information about what's happening with the. With indigenous struggles in North America, Brendan Aurell does that, and this is, I think this was yesterday. A little editorial thing that she put in. She just added this and she's a. Former full time journalist or I mean, a professional journalist? And now she does this this alternative project since IT news there's nothing that terrifies the powers that be more than when the anarchists and traditional Native Americans team up. It's the news media had not been so terrified by the topic it would. Have likely made national news. First, there was the fine-tuned. As in Phoenix at Alec is about 10 days ago, now two weeks ago, organized by Navajo and Walton, where they were pepper sprayed pepper sprayed 2 days later. They pulled off a class Act protest of Salt River Project water stealer and coal-fired power plant operator. Native land, then there was the Docupace autumn lands event in Tucson. At Dry River, which I just referred to, she's well aware of the way the media works the corporate media. And there are recordings of the talks. And the part. The the beginning and ending that will fill you. Is is really something worth listening to and? You can go there. Just Scroll down a little and you'll get it censored news and this. Is the I. Was able to. Say a few words about to me, the absolute primacy and the central importance of this alliance. Between indigenous folks and. Because then they may be black block or or whatever the what is building there. And I think this is the thing. That spills over. In effect with this question of dear cupi or decolonized is the. The name change proposal or challenge to the Occupy movement, and I think that's going to be taken up. We talked about that a little bit. Two weeks ago would be more than. That I think. Just a couple of real quickie new things, you know. The usual deal there with some of the. And don't worry, there's there's going to be action later. It isn't all doom and gloom here, but. For one thing, this huge flooding in Mindanao in the southern Philippines, another one of these weather events that's unprecedented in terms of the course it took. And several other aspects are probably going to be 1500. Dead when they. When they tally that up, it's quite a surprise. They're certainly flooding in in Southeast Asia, but this is a of a different kind apparently, and what has been predicted for a while? Temperature rising trouble in the arctics is the New York Times talking about the permafrost thawing. In Alaska and Siberia, and so forth. Now it's happening. It's bubbling up there, the methane as the as that is melting in a big way, and. Oh, that's some major things happening in the Adirondacks of Upstate New York. No more bogs and moose. They'll be vanishing Texas the entire oyster crop has been wiped out by massive algae blooms and at the same time this is reported today year long drought in Texas. Has claimed as many as half a billion trees. In Texas, and here's something today. There was a book actually in 2007. No way home the decline of the world's great animal migrations where there's new studies and reports. This latest one from Wildlife Conservation society. About aerial migrations and land migrations from elk and all kinds of birds. And so forth well. The long distance migrations are not happening anymore and they are crucial to keeping these species and extant in the world, so it's about survival. Dozens of migrations and the latest update on that. Yeah, when you interrupt that because there's no habitat. It's just. In one way or another, interrupted by the industrial onslaught. What happens to these annual migrations? And of course, this last weekend pretty much the last of the American forces in Iraq where were pulled out some number is in Kuwait, and. The sick. Commentary by Obama. I think it was Friday about how glorious it was forgetting there was based on lies forgetting about black water. Bougrab torture over 100,000 dead Iraqis and so on. And it yeah, quite sickening more. Bush couldn't have done better with that. And also last week he announced that there will be no. Problems with this detention bill. Indefinite detention. We're talking about the police state this is a huge reach on that, and now you know, I've got to say something about shootings. I've been gone for two weeks, Irwindale, late last week. Three did it it so Cal Edison? Office in LA. Two dead shooters shot himself, two others wounded in in a tiny Eastern Illinois farm town. Five people shot to death, including a baby and two children. And you know what I'm noticing? This one of these didn't even make the papers, and did so belatedly. It was a Friday so maybe that's part of the reason, but it's just becoming such a commonplace. It's not. It's not actually such news anymore. And just one more thing. Just a little culture deal here we get to the end of the year. People's critics chime in with their 10 best movies of the year, for example. Well, Stephen Holden and New York Times, the resident movie critic. He's talking about the. How striking it was that there were so many big dark movies eschatological mood in times? Type movies and I've seen I've seen a couple of these. Yeah, I wonder when that would be using that.

KEVIN: Well, you missed. You missed the best part, the title of the article is riding off into civilization sunset.

ZERZAN: Exactly, that's the smartphones.

KEVIN: That's right, that's the punch line.

ZERZAN: That's a great title civilization Sension, let's hope.

KEVIN: There you go. Yeah, bold type. That's right.

ZERZAN: How are you?

KEVIN: Doing hey pretty good, pretty good.

ZERZAN: Thank you for coming down.

KEVIN: Hey good to be here. When you were going through the demise of many species and migratory patterns and things like that. I've got from the New York Times again for us humans, life goes on and on. The fine Ray Kurtzweil, author of the Singularity, is near when humans transcend biology. An article on longevity in humans and that contrast humans and are expanded life lifespans. And with technology allegedly contrast quite a bit with what we're seeing with the poor poor elk.

ZERZAN: No species is exempt, so now.

KEVIN: No species and then going on with their wonderful technology. The whole rise of the New York Times celebrating the the sensor on how we've learned from the intern. Get to get physical. The Internet likes you really likes you now this whole year maybe. People know this even on their own computers at this time of year where what they've looked for in the past now comes back to them as an ad targeted towards them. So this whole. Two way using a so-called computer intelligence and and surveillance of your habits and your activities to come up with the profile. Well and try and sell, you sell you something or what else you know. No, if you don't buy then what happens?

ZERZAN: Well that I think I believe soon the Supreme Court is going to decide the case about. Listening devices, electronic listening devices. That could be, say, slapped on a bumper of a car or something so so that they would have 24 hour information about anyone. And I think it sort of hinged on whether they needed any prior judicial.

KEVIN: Any authorization?

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah. And one of the arguments. And this has not been decided. But but I think, as I understand, the main argument was. You don't need any of that because nobody there is no privacy. Nobody expects any privacy. That's you're. You're talking about the past. In other words, they don't even bother with the legal sort of part of it, it's just that that's a that's come and gone.

KEVIN: Right, right?

ZERZAN: You know it doesn't even.

KEVIN: How can you?

ZERZAN: Make an argument about right to privacy when isn't.

KEVIN: It right, right? And I mean, when you said that about adding listening device? Well, already your phone is a tracking device. Your GPS, you know. It's like we can find out where you've been by check. This little chip here and there that you had no awareness of. Even in your. Clothing, you know?

ZERZAN: Oh yeah, that's coming on, yes. Yeah, in fact there's a. There's an outfit called optimize apps and the CEO of Optimize apps. Thomas Murphy is making a virtue out of that. Of course it's complete transparency. If you're doing something that's good to be. Doing doesn't matter whether.

KEVIN: Right, right?

ZERZAN: Or not, we see you doing. It isn't then the Nazis say that. That thing or or any American. And I suppose. Yeah, we we live in a in a society where we need to be comfortable with the fact that there are probably electronic guys on us at all times. Like it or not, today's kids are the document generation and with that fact comes certain responsibilities. We're empowering this generation with the tools to record misdeeds. That's life with technology. That's life as. We've created it. Boy, yeah that's.

KEVIN: So it's empowering to be surveyed all the time.

ZERZAN: It's empowering.

ZERZAN: And it doesn't even matter if it's not, because that's just the way it is. Like Sherry Turkle, that's not enough. What can I tell you it? It doesn't matter. Your quibbles are irrelevant. You know that's just to some other plan that you're talking about. That's that's really the. I don't know. I think the scariest. Bottom line part of it. But you know, I wanted to ask you this. I was reading a piece here. This is Wednesday last Wednesday's New York Times, the Facebook resistors. While the site has surged and actually there are 500 bills. And Facebook monthly views. And it was only 100 billion only 100 billion in 2009. So in a couple of years it's 500 billion. The way the point is, while the site has surged, some are content to sit out, and it's about people who are defecting their their. I don't want to do. Facebook do you know anybody like?

KEVIN: Anybody who doesn't?

ZERZAN: Yeah, he's dropped out of it, he's.

KEVIN: Do you exist? If you don't do Facebook? Yeah yeah. I I don't. Know us somehow? I don't seem to appear on Facebook, but I don't have microwave either, but I'm not sure I exist.

ZERZAN: So you ignore. Kevin Tucker

KEVIN: That's what we're talking about.

ZERZAN: No, if you yeah therefore I exist.

KEVIN: Yeah yeah, maybe not on Facebook.

ZERZAN: Kevin Tucker has dropped out just just above the two was reading this last week about and their feet. One of the people here. It says that this is pretty cool, I wasn't. Calling my friends. Anymore, said Ashley Elsa 24, is in Graduate School in Charlottesville. Virginia was just seeing their pictures and updates and felt like that was really connecting to them. And then the bones that are. It isn't, is it? So she's cancelled her Facebook. He's a guy in Oregon. Jason Balcom is college student in Oregon. It looks like the maybe the park license stop stopped using Facebook saying its effects were maybe a little unhealthy.

KEVIN: Oh, he stopped.

ZERZAN: Maybe this is a tendency.

KEVIN: I mean it will. Will it go over 500 billion or will it decline?

ZERZAN: It will decline to zero very shortly. Erica Gabel of Brooklyn says Facebook is virtual clutter. She doesn't need. I'm not into it. All right? Maybe it's just a little ripple, or maybe it's it's better than.

KEVIN: Yeah, yeah no. I I fear those stances will be illegal.

ZERZAN: We'll be forced to do it, huh?

KEVIN: You must be on Facebook.

ZERZAN: Seeing Facebook as essential or essentially vapid? That's another slide bar in the article.

KEVIN: But that you know, I mean the the sad thing to me is really if you look. Is 890 year olds or you know this iPhone the talking to the phones and all of that? I mean, it's nice they're talking to the phones because at least there's some voice at some point. But the Facebook really the having to have it in text only text people. They don't even use the cell phones. The younger they are, it's texting, so the dehumanization the like totally vacate the senses. You know you can't. I don't even want to hear your voice over the speaker. Please just send me those little 26 letters arranged in order to communicate all ideas.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's a further step.

KEVIN: And prefer I mean at certain points in time and ages and all. Right now there's an initial love affair with that way of communicating.

ZERZAN: Maybe it wears off though on the initial.

KEVIN: I mean, that's what's hopeful is like, yeah, it it wears off or it collapses. It's just not available. And then what do you do? You got to look at the kid next door and talk to him. Whoa, yeah, yeah, what happens now?

ZERZAN: Wait a minute. It's going strong in so many ways, not just Facebook. Is there a thing running against this psychiatric hospital in Istanbul? This is another. Is another clinic for Internet addiction and they just opened in their. They're looking to expand. Most stumbles towards the modern city turnkey. But it's but it's, it's everywhere. The the people that. Get pulled into that is a substitute for.

KEVIN: Just picking up still on this. The Facebook technology stuff. When you talked about the flooding in the Philippines, I went to I think I was in OfficeMax or something and they have a little placard on the desk that says some software or something. To the flooding in Thailand, now there's some problem in the whole global supply that some will niche in it with Thailand that's causing problems and I don't know what it is exactly that was produced there, but it's a big, you know it's a significant.

CARL: Right, right? Breaking parts.

KEVIN: That the flooding now is interrupted.

ZERZAN: Industrial parks so-called. Of the capital city. And yeah they it's it's a web, it's a network that's very very interdependent and interlocked. And yeah, put them out of business just to underwater.

KEVIN: Right, but a lot that you know, like it seems to me like, well, so there's some connections to be made here. OK, there's all this bizarre flooding happening now is that related to something happening to the climate of the Earth because of what we're producing, and you know, blah blah blah.

ZERZAN: Oh yeah.

KEVIN: The way we live. And then. So the flooding. You can't get the pieces to make your parts, and the only way I can communicate with you nowadays is by texting you through this piece of technology that can't be reproduced because we've trashed the planet. You know, it's like there's a catch 22 going on here that some people just aren't quite. They're little slow to catch on.

CARL: Causing the flooding.

ZERZAN: It's getting red. Yeah, because sure, there's there's flooding. There's there's storms and so forth, but they they know that over there, and yet they're they're. Vulnerable, and it's yeah, it's a soul free producing thing. Yeah, my teacher is an app. You know, the Wall Street Journal piece about how more kids than ever are. Just they're just plugged in, that's their, that's their educational experience. So and again, the privacy thing. How much do people worry about the loss of online privacy? Privacy in the digital age, you know what's that? That's what that's a meaningless. That's an oxymoron there the same. If you immerse the whole culture in that, then of course then the result is what you've done away with it so.

KEVIN: All right, it's an outmoded concept, you know, privacy that doesn't.

ZERZAN: Yeah, that's that's for sure. We're going to take a music break pretty soon. We might have somebody on the line.

UNKNOWN: OK, I'll put you on right before. The break.

CARL: Then all right this second.

ZERZAN: Cool and then we get to occupied. Maybe too. Huh, hello there somebody there?

Speaker 8: John, yeah hi, it's keeter I'm doing fine.

CARL: Yeah, thank you doing.

Speaker 8: I hope you are a little while ago on one of the programs I listened to. It's actually called on point. They had a whole hour long thing about drones and how much Obama has used them to kill. 30 thousands of people but one of the aspects of the drones along with the surveillance issue that you were talking about a little while ago, is that apparently the technology is developing very quickly for drones to be able to stay in the air for a long time. And they're miniaturizing them to the, you know, like the to the size of insects that will literally be able to fly into your house. You know, hover at your window. Keeping an eye on people. And that it's gradually happening. And that's something that we all may really want to try to pay attention to. And then I want to make sure that folks are aware. I heard on local FM station a little while ago that apparently the City Council. Maybe last night or today. On a five to two decision decided to revoke the exemption from the camping ban and the so-called homeless camp. The Occupy Eugene protest site.

ZERZAN: The agency meeting today an unannounced emergency meeting at noon, and I think they're they've just heard, beginning to dismantle it.

Speaker 8: So apparently the police.

ZERZAN: Yeah, once again, what's that OK?

CARL: He shuts this down. Did you see that? They shut some streets down there.

ZERZAN: They are blocking it off.

CARL: Yeah, yeah, it looked like they shut Jefferson going South.

ZERZAN: Another one there's.

Speaker 8: And apparently they're putting a lot of garbage containers over there, so I guess who knows whether or not they're going to be doing that right now tonight. I'm not sure what's up, but I just wanted to pass that along.

ZERZAN: Thanks a lot.

Speaker 8: Skinner yeah, take care.

ZERZAN: Thanks for calling. You know another real crazy thing about the drones. We saw this we we picked this up. In Arizona and Montana, senator, now that it's open season on wolves again use the drones to shoot the to kill the wolves. It's not just Arabs, you can murder them, you can. Kill anything isn't.

KEVIN: Anything anytime. Yeah yeah well on that.

ZERZAN: Happening yet, but that was a that. Was a brilliant idea.

KEVIN: Big production of drones. Up hood. River way up in. It's a local, you know. I mean, there's significant defense contract is totally in their neighborhood in your backyard. Produced up here and then just along the same lines you can see lovely picture Iran displayed one of those ugly, ugly death defying sick machines made that you know that's the drones. It reminded me when they announced that. This just may and and Obama asked for it back. I guess because that was the best he could do. Was you know? Would you please return my draw? It was just like the atom bomb, right? Oh, we made it. We produced it, you know, to end all wars or whatever and then pretty soon everybody and their brothers producing nukes. So now we brought the world drones you know and 66.

ZERZAN: Well, yeah, technology never goes backwards and everybody's going to get it sooner or later despite whatever political stuff goes on. It's that's the March that shows. What we're going to do about it? I guess we're going to take a little music break and just a short 13460645. There we go.

Adam Calls In

JOHN ZERZAN: Here we go . . . hello. We got the collapsible headphones here but, uh, we’re back.

CARL: [Unintelligible] . . . we’ve got Greg on the phone.

ZERZAN: Oh, Greg, okay, how’s it going?

ADAM LANZA: Hi, good. Um. I’m a fan of your writing. Um.

ZERZAN: Thank you.

LANZA: I’m sorry to [bring up?] such an old news story but I couldn’t find anything that you said about the topic, and it seems relevant to your interests, so I thought I would bring up Travis the Chimp, do you remember him?

ZERZAN: I don’t!

LANZA: Well, he was the highly domesticated chimpanzee who lived in a suburban home in Stamford, Connecticut.

CARL: Oh, yeah.

ZERZAN: Oh.

LANZA: And he was raised just like a human child, starting from the week he was born. By the time that he was fourteen years old, which would be somewhere around age twenty in human years —

ZERZAN: Uh-huh.

LANZA: — um, he slept in a bed, he took his own baths, he dressed himself, he brushed his teeth with an electric toothbrush.

ZERZAN: [laughs] Really? When was this?

LANZA: Um. Well, this happened in early 2009.

ZERZAN: Oh.

CARL: Oh.

LANZA: Um.

ZERZAN: Uh-huh?

LANZA: He ate his meals at a table and enjoyed human foods like ice cream and he used a remote control to watch television and liked baseball games. And he even used a computer to look at pictures on the internet.

ZERZAN: Huh!

LANZA: And, [chuckles] it goes without saying that Travis was very overweight. He was two hundred pounds when he should have been around the low hundreds.

ZERZAN: Mmhm.

LANZA: And he was actually taking Xanax.

CARL: [laughs]

ZERZAN: Amazing.

LANZA: I couldn’t find any information about why he was taking it, but it just seems to say a lot that he was given it at all. And, basically, I think Travis wasn’t really any different than a mentally handicapped human child.

ZERZAN: Hmm.

LANZA: But anyway, one day in February 2009, he was acting very agitated, and at some point grabbed the car — his owner’s car keys, went outside and started beeping from car to car, apparently wanting to go for a car ride, and he was acting very aggressively, so his owner called her friend over to get her to help him to calm down and go back inside, and once she arrived he immediately attacked her and his owner tried to stop him but couldn’t and she even resorted to stabbing him with a knife, but nothing worked. And she said that after she stabbed him he looked at her as if to say, “Why’d you do that to me, Mom?” Because appar- ently that was what the relationship was like, no different than between a human mother and a human child.

ZERZAN: Hmm.

LANZA: So after the stabbing, she called the police, who arrived twelve minutes after the attack, at which point her friend was pretty close to dead. And once the cruiser came up, Travis went over to it, tried to open the locked passenger door. He smashed off the side-view mirror, went over to the driver’s door, opened it, and the cop shot him. He fled back into the house, where he went to his playroom and bled to death.

ZERZAN: Hmm . . .

LANZA: And um, [chuckles] this might not seem very relevant, but I’m bringing it up because afterward, everyone was condemning his owner for saying how irresponsible she was for raising a chimp like it was a child. And that she should have known something like this would happen, because chimps aren’t supposed to be living in civilization, they’re supposed to be living in the wild, among each other.

ZERZAN: Mhmm.

LANZA: But, their criticism stops there and the implication is that there’s no way anything could have gone wrong in his life if he had been living in this civilization as a human rather than a chimp.

ZERZAN: Ah, indeed.

LANZA: [And?] I’m so interested in Travis, um, because he brings up questions about this whole process of child-raising. Um.

ZERZAN: Yeah.

LANZA: Civilization isn’t something which just happens to gently exist without us having to do anything, because every newborn child — human child — is born in a chimp-like state, and civilization is only sustained by conditioning them for years on end so that they’ll accept it for what it is. And since we’ve gone through this conditioning, we can observe a human family raising a human child, and I’m sure that even you have trouble intuitively seeing it as something unnatural, but when we see a chimp in that position, we [visually?] know that there’s something profoundly wrong with the situation. And it’s easy to say there’s something wrong with it simply because it’s a chimp, but what’s the real difference between us and our closest relatives? Travis wasn’t an untamed monster at all. Um, he wasn’t just feigning do- mestication, he was civilized. Um, he was able to integrate into society, he was a chimp actor when he was younger, and his owner drove him around the city frequently in association with her towing business, where he met many different people, and got along with everyone. If Travis had been some nasty monster all his life, it would have been widely reported, but to the contrary, it seems like everyone who knew him said how shocked they were that Travis had been so savage, because they knew him as a sweet child. And — there were two isolated incidents early in his life when he acted aggressively, but summarizing them would take too long, so basically I’ll just say that he didn’t act really any differently than a human child would, and the people who would use that as an indictment against having chimps live as humans do wouldn’t apply the same thing to humans, so it’s just irrelevant.

ZERZAN: Mhmm.

LANZA: But anyway, look what civilization did to him: it had the same exact effect on him as it has on humans. He was profoundly sick, in every sense of the term, and he had to resort to these surrogate activities like watching baseball, and looking at pictures on a computer screen, and taking Xanax. He was a complete mess.

ZERZAN: Mhm.

LANZA: And his attack wasn’t simply because he was a senselessly violent, impulsive chimp. Um, which was how his behavior was universally portrayed. Um, immediately before his attack, he had desperately been wanting his owner to drive him somewhere, and the best reason I can think of for why he would want that, looking at his entire life, would be that some little thing he experienced was the last straw, and he was overwhelmed by the life that he had, and he wanted to get out of it by changing his environment, and the best way that he knew how to deal with that was by getting his owner to drive him somewhere else.

ZERZAN: Yeah.

LANZA: And when his owner’s — owner’s friend arrived, he knew that she was trying to coax him back into his life of domestication, and he couldn’t handle that, so — he attacked her, and anyone else who approached them. And dismissing his attack as simply being the senseless violence and impulsiveness of a chimp, instead of a human, is wishful thinking at best.

ZERZAN: Mmm-hmm.

LANZA: His attack can be seen entirely parallel to the attacks and random acts of violence that you bring up on your show every week —

ZERZAN: Mmm . . .

LANZA: — committed by humans, which the mainstream also has no explanation for, and —

ZERZAN: No.

LANZA: — and actual humans — I just don’t think it would be such a stretch to say that he very well could have been a teenage mall shooter or something like that.

ZERZAN: Yeah, yeah.

LANZA: And —

ZERZAN: Wow. Thank you, Greg.

LANZA: Yeah, I —

ZERZAN: That’s quite a story. Yeah, that’s, uh, really apropos, isn’t it.

LANZA: Yeah.

ZERZAN: Travis the Chimp.

LANZA: It’s just that I’m a little surprised that I never heard you bring it up at all because [chuckles] maybe I’m just seeing connections where there aren’t any, but —

ZERZAN: Not — I think not, no, I just, I didn’t catch that one, I didn’t, uh — maybe I was out of the country or something, I don’t know but I missed it. Thanks very much, man.

LANZA: Thank you. Bye.

ZERZAN: Take care. Wow. Very well articulated, I think. Okay, well, uh, uh, I guess we better move on . . .

Some Action News in the early hours of Monday, December the 5th. The nearly completed but still. 50 Chicken Factory farm in Lower Saxony in Germany was destroyed to the tune of 50,000 pounds fourth time in Lower Saxony at such a. I don't know what you. Call it farms. Seems inadequate, but anyway 4th time. Arson attack in the last year. Wednesday, December the 7th police station attacked. With two canisters of gasoline and a fuse in Kirkkonummi, Finland. And last Wednesday night. The infra scutti part of Rome. Destroyed with a Sledgehammer, 6 windows in the ATM of UniCredit UniCredit bank. The unit credit agency. The circle way. And blazing in the building last Wednesday night in Melbourne at the Sydenham Train Line station subway station. I think various machines were sabotaged. And the the communique is good. About cramming ourselves into these stool teen tubes to be ferried to work subjected to constant surveillance and how sickening and humiliating it is. Last night, December 12th in Athens, riot police were attacked with. Gas land bombs outside the culture ministry and yes, the Exarchia district. This is shortly after a standoff of a demonstration at Korydallos Prison in western Athens, involving support for imprisoned anarchist prisoners. And China, this is really the big story I guess of the past 10 days or so. The village, which is now surrounded by the military, the uprising. Maybe this is the Chinese spring. This is Wukan. If it's the name of the town or the village, just northwest of Hong Kong and east, against the backdrop of all kinds of rioting against land seizures and industrialization. Also, outrage about air pollution, the the haze and the smog in the cities is just unbearable. And the government puts out these lies about. How it's improving? Yeah, the backdrop of that 21 of the world's the world's most polluted cities. 21 of the 100 most polluted cities. So the derision and the contempt for the government. Has been rising on a number of fronts. And of course this thing with the Chinese village is still ongoing. They have surrounded it. The thing I read today was that they were heading for another village to try to spread the revolt. They have not managed to stop this one. And they've stopped the development. They stopped the seizure of lands because of the because it's been stopped by the Chinese and evidence there last Thursday night. And this is, yes, a little bit out of order bit in Brussels. There was action taken against Vinki, which is a company that constructs nuclear plants, prisons, airports, high speed line. Surveillance cameras were messed up, locks filled with glue. Chain attached to block the entrance and other other sabotaging efforts. Here's something from Mexico, just a couple of these are not action things and just a couple of quick things here. This is from, I think this was translated and published at War on society. I hope I have that right. It's either war on society or angry news from around the world from Mexico. A statement signed by 11 different groups, including Luddites, is the English translation Luddites against the domestication of wild Nature Free, Dangerous, Savage and incendiary individuals for the Black Plague. Former members of the Eco Anarchist cell for direct action. And one or two others with similar. Primitive misleadings I would say, and this is a. This is a wonderful statement. We were against all domination and they tried to. Spell it out. And they in Arizona I was talking to somebody. As to whether they knew what was new in Chiapas, what was new, with the Zapatistas? Easier when it's been quite quiet and she she. Had the same impression. Haven't heard from this sub coming down to you or anything lately. Anyway, these people are not afraid to bring it on to call it what it is. They referred to the other campaign. Now try companion of a few years ago. Supposedly I created to confront the electoral charades in Mexico. Well, they point out that the sub commandante now is registering absolute silence toward the new. Politico Guy named Lopez Obrador who's an ex PRI guy. They had called the easy land called this guy a corrupt rat at the service of the powerful. But now apparently they look at him as the Mexican Chavez, Morales, or Castro. Thus they view with profound distaste the extinction of unmanageable anarchism. It worries them that contagion is spreading. That's again, that's in reference to. The easier one. These eleven these 11.

KEVIN: OK.

ZERZAN: So they say if there's a rat, it's from the left or the. Right? Either way, and they're against all authority, so they're calling they're calling the easier rental racket. And I'm not in a position to say that's totally correct, but you know, I've been voicing my questions a little about that. Well, one more thing, this is just this is maybe not even worth it, but at a infos who it's a service not to be confused with infoshop, but you know they're known for their hatred of primitivism, so they're publishing a little thing that came from somebody who tabled little for little black cart up at the Humboldt anarchist. Book fair. About 10 days ago. And I just thought, you know, come on now it's there's a real snarky little thing there there. There's laughing at these rooms up there and unable to. Who wear flannel? Have no fashion sense. They don't have well flannel, by the way, but and you know this is this is a bunch of primitives so. You know it's just a lot of it just strikes me as so perfectly urban hipster ish and nihilistic. Yeah, maybe you got to get out of the city once in a. While stead of making yourself seem moronic. And maybe there's there's some humor here. I shouldn't take it too seriously, but it found it annoying. And of course any infos was very happy to publish it since it was trashing on. On primitivists, wherever they might be found anyway, they are sort of unidentified, but. Sorry, I didn't really score. Well, geez, yeah, you're going to say something. The Chinese thing I'm not giving you.

KEVIN: Ohh no you.

ZERZAN: The chance I'm sorry.

KEVIN: Hid it on the fishing village you. You you can. You hid it.

ZERZAN: Well, one I got one. More thing. Talking about the technology. This is from the times of December 14th hospitals and doctor's offices. Hoping to curb medical error. Have invested heavily to put computers, smartphones and other devices into the hands of medical staff for instant access to patient data, drug information and case. But it goes on to say, but the doctors and nurses are so focused on the screen and not even the patient even during surgery and so forth and during surgery. For example, making personal calls, checking their messages, and somebody's on the table there. I mean, it's just it's. So yeah, it's working out really well. It's just distraction. You walk around the hospital. What you see is not funny, said Doctor Peter J Papadakos. In New York, they're just glued to their computers, phones, iPads. You don't notice the people there in front of you? Yeah, that's exactly just like it is in the rest of society, it's. Boy, there's 4 pages of this stuff, it's. It's almost funny.

KEVIN: Well, the article on the sensors to put the hospitals in as G is working on on developing sensors, maybe several cameras in the hospital patient room to check and see the movement of the doctors and the nurse and the facial expressions of the patient. And all of this better, better living through through technology so that. That'll back up too, you know, always improve. They're not paying attention. Well, let's survey them.

ZERZAN: Yeah yeah we can.

KEVIN: Get it on camera.

ZERZAN: Maybe we can look at the screen and then looking at the screen and the patient is expiring in the corner somewhere they don't know they don't care.

KEVIN: Yeah, it's there you go, so it sounds like Occupy Eugene is going the way of the other camps a little later than.

ZERZAN: Boy yeah they and another one of these unannounced politicians meetings. The emergency meeting today at noon here in Eugene. Sure, boy, there was a they fought back. There was real action as they were evicting, trying to evict people in Denver. We were talking about. That they there was some broken teeth and. They were for real and they said this. This is where you don't always make a phone call does not always guarantee your bail. In other words, the charges. There's some heavy charging that they were fighting the pig.

KEVIN: Oh, heavy charges and there was that a park occupation or was. That a squat.

ZERZAN: It's at camp, so I I had thought that they had gotten out of that because of the, you know, temperatures and everything a while back, but I guess they come back or some people come back.

KEVIN: Close down the camp, right?

ZERZAN: We're not about to leave without a fight, so as you were saying, it's a mixed bag that there's a lot going on that doesn't always match the media frame, right to tell you what's really up.

KEVIN: Right, right, the media is having a grand old time from what I see building this construct of an occupation movement that can be marching around Pioneer Square. They're seeking electoral reform or or some bizarre type things. And meanwhile, if you check on the Internet and different anarchist sites, you'll see them quite a few squats going on. Banks being, you know, bank machines being glued up and a lot of. Under the radar activity so that we'll see what next year bring. You know it's an interesting, interesting development from 2011.

ZERZAN: Hope to see you next year next month.

KEVIN: There we go.

ZERZAN: Hope you can make it in January and Cliff will be here next month. Thanks for coming on down and thanks to. Carl and Chase for helping out when we had when you had Shane and Brian here.

KEVIN: And thanks to our callers and our listeners and Ho ho ho.

CARL: And evidently thanks to rotten and Bill here for.

KEVIN: Off we go.

ZERZAN: Request request flight is always open.

CARL: Real request, yeah, for the decade of Steely Dan.

MUSIC: Feed us some hungry reggae. Tonight, as long as the this right. Music that treats you right.

12-13-2011

The 12/13 broadcast, with Shane and Brian, was not recorded. Alas!

12-06-2011

[audio]

Insane news of the week. Let's pretend: the liberal as 'anarchist.' Technoworld survey. Dan reports on Black Bloc and Indigenous at anti-ALEC in AZ. Other action news.

12-06-2011

[audio]

Insane news of the week. Let's pretend: the liberal as 'anarchist.' Technoworld survey. Dan reports on Black Bloc and Indigenous at anti-ALEC in AZ. Other action news.

11-22-2011

[audio]

Weekly potpourri, Occupy stuff (e.g. report from Portland). Ads of the week. Action news, periodicals. More Pinker critique. Two calls, many MEEBOs.

11-15-2011

[audio]

Kathan on board (stoked about Occupy Portland). Penn State, China, mega-mammoth energy projects globally. Action reports. But mostly perspectives on Occupy. Good calls, MEEBOs.

11-08-2011

[audio]

Chase at the board. Desert revisited. Extreme weather, warming spikes. Ads of the week, tasty actions globally. Lots on Occupy. Developments that Couldn't Possibly Go Wrong. Lots of Meebo and Facebook chat.

11-01-2011

[audio]

"A Ballad of Modern Progress," Greece, Pinker on how non-violent civilization is (!!!). More on the Occupy movement. Action reports, ads of the week. One call, MEEBOs.

10-25-2011

[audio]

Cricket returns. News of the weird week. 'Occupy' analysis, ads of the week, action news. Good calls (e.g. from O'otham land in Arizona) and MEEBOs.

10-18-2011

[audio]

Cliff co-hosts. News, Steve Jobs and JZ¹s anti-Jobs interview (see johnzerzan.net). "Occupy" stuff, action reports, Jensen watch, plus calls and MEEBOs.

10-11-2011

[audio]

Kathan present! Pretty much the whole hour about the Occupy movement. Several MEEBOs and calls.

10-04-2011

[audio]

Occupy ______ phenomenon. Hawaii trip. Omar Khayyam, solar and wind zaniness. Killer cantaloupes, drugs for everything (horrendous side effects). MEEBOs.

09-20-2011

[audio]

Ads of the crazy world. Health, Arctic ice, anxiety, technosphere developments/madness. No hiding from a totalizing reality. Some fine action news. Two calls, two MEEBOs. Blackout folks on deck next week!

09-13-2011

[audio]

Iraq, 9/11, ads of the week. Victorianarchist book fair. New book: DESERT, a document of surrender. Other, better new books. Action news! Two calls; MEEBO not connected.

09-06-2011

[audio]

Shootings, weather, Labor Day. Poop burger a fraud! Green pollution, action news. More on Jensen disgrace. Christianarchists' get-together. 1 call, MEEBOs.

08-30-2011

[audio]

The world at large (e.g. Irene, tar sands pipeline, oceans warming). Derrick Jensen goes to FBI. Action reports. Meebo, calls.

08-23-2011

[audio]

Next Nature. Libya, East Coast earthquake. Anarchist--and not so anarchist--ideas. Obese mice on SRT-1720 are JUST FINE. Mini-dinosaur chickens. Action news. One call.

08-16-2011

[audio]

Cliff with me and Karl. Somalia, Syria, North Sea oil spill, Iraq, shootings, "Life" on screens. Exxon: "smart gasoline, clean emissions!" Lots of action news, including Mexican "Unabomber(s)". Several calls.

08-09-2011

[audio]

Afghanistan, domestic family slaughters multiplying. England blazing! 'Social' networks, crazed ads, more action. Several calls. Poems with edge.

08-02-2011

[audio]

Debt 'crisis' extravaganzand Graeber's poverty of thought ('Debt'). Portland anarchists' counter-charges. Video games advance as some demand more of life. Ads of the week, major action news. Soli's 'Facebook' poem.

07-26-2011

[audio]

The rest of "Origins and the Trickster," JZ's busy weekend (in Portland Corvallis), PC craziness at anarchist book fair (a call), Norway, and everyday carnage. Drought realities, action news.

07-19-2011

[audio]

rot'n co-hosts, friend and former Green Anarchy editor. Lively show, including call from another G.A. editor and friend. High-tech madness, e.g. virtual touch (!) and Shadow Cities game in which the actual world goes virtual. Wide-ranging discussion, action news.

Speaker 2: Play my life.

UNKNOWN: His back.

Speaker 4: With you.

Speaker 2: For life.

Speaker 1: My heart.

Speaker 3: Accuradio for July 19th and yes indeed, Broughton is here as we fade out.

Speaker 5: You can call me diesel pickings if you need.

Speaker 3: To dieselpickings@gmail.com right?

Speaker 5: That's right, that's right. That's right, you can spell it either ENS or INS. I have two. Emails these days. Yes, I'm a cosmic anarchist cowboy now.

Speaker 3: Or a height impaired hippie or something.

Speaker 5: Like that, yes, I'm joining your. Age group though hit the Big 40. Good, yes, it's a homecoming here. It's good to see you Carl Jay-Z myself. It's like time warp. 5-6 years ago I left town six years ago, this six years ago went down to southern. Oregon had a couple of kitties and a little shout out to they just not and little ******. And Daisy Pickens is out in the car with him, came up to Eugene for a quick little visit.

Speaker 3: Let's see it. And six years.

Speaker 5: Six years. I had a flea.

Speaker 3: OK, I miss you. When you won't go away. That's a country song.

Speaker 5: Sounds like it. Yes, yes. I've been doing radio down there mostly. You know, probably pretty similar to Cranky Cowboy here on this.

Speaker 3: Station it admitted untimely end.

Speaker 5: Though right it did. It did, but actually it ran exactly the same time as this show. 7:00 to 10:00 o'clock. So I. Pulled it for three hours, ? So unless you have your bag or you can't, you can only. Make an hour. So I did 3 hours of country old time crazy stuff and Tom Waits made it in there for. Some reason all the time. Yeah, he sometimes he picks up the banjo and. Does weird. Stuff with Tom Waits.

Speaker 3: What a surprise. Tom Wade.

Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a cowboy, so that's. What I'm doing these days living in.

Speaker 4: The woods gardening.

Speaker 5: Playing music, raising kids, and but I'm still in a tight thorian as ever anti civilization as ever. Actually more so more so more so. Site even though I do have an e-mail. For the first. Time in three. Years wow, it's good to. Be here.

Speaker 3: Definitely well, this break up a little news. Some of those saying your two or.

Speaker 5: Three things that's great cause I don't even read the news or listen to the radio going on. So this great, but it.

Speaker 3: Was nice seeing you on. No, no, I'll be down.

Speaker 5: Thank you John, give.

Speaker 3: You any OK if I need you, yeah. Don't tell us.

Speaker 5: If if you're snoring on the air, someone come down the line and talk and come get me.

Speaker 3: Well, we might get a phone call. Who knows there. Maybe somebody want to connect with Rodney 541. Thank you Carl, amazing.

Speaker 5: I heard someone's calling.

Speaker 4: What's that phone number?

Speaker 3: We'll just see before we take off here might have. A might have a live call.

Speaker 1: From the program.

Speaker 3: Some puzzling call looks like Carl is wondering what's happening over there.

Speaker 5: I think someone's wondering. Oh yeah, Okie doke.

Speaker 6: OK.

Speaker 5: You probably haven't gotten a. Phone call in six years, huh?

Speaker 4: Yeah, we got Deegan Deegan Deegan hello there.

Speaker 7: Hey how y'all? Doing John when your show didn't open up with hey 19 I got a little thrown off and started to think I tuned into. The polling station.

Speaker 3: It did run and put you up to that man.

Speaker 7: But I gotta say as. A musical tradition, I think country is a better chance of surviving industrial collapse than the overproduced studio dependent sounds of Steely Dan. But hey, that might just be. My own pretzel logic talking.

Speaker 3: You haven't heard the program. In the past two years.

Speaker 5: No, no I don't.

Speaker 7: But yeah, I thought there was. A time warp effect going on.

Speaker 3: Here, well, I didn't want to admit that I'm not prepared to defend Stevie van, you understand anyway, Bill. Vegan, is there some reason you called besides the stray insults here or is? There some.

Speaker 7: Well, I was just wondering what the what's the haps up in Eugene is? Is DJ fleece still following the local atmosphere with the future slimy waves?

Speaker 5: You know degan you'd be happy to know that I actually saw. I'm glad they didn't have a whiskey bar when I lived. Here I'd be in the gutter by now. But anyway, I was walking in and I saw DJ sleeve and. I didn't think. I'd be able to talk about him on the air because you're not supposed to make fun of other DJ's, but he got. Fired apparently so we. Can say all? We want about all DJ sleep.

Speaker 7: Ohh, because he's a former DJ.

Speaker 5: Yes, and.

Speaker 7: OK great all bets are off.

Speaker 3: Well, he was fair, but he's back so.

Speaker 5: Ohh he's back.

Speaker 3: Not that I observed that rule.

Speaker 5: I'm sorry. Yeah, he was riding his bike grimacing.

Speaker 3: Grimacing, I let him know what?

Speaker 4: I thought of him then just leave.

Speaker 3: Me one good for you.

Speaker 5: Yeah, Deegan you would. I don't know if. You've been to Eugene. Lately, but it's definitely resembling more of a little Portland than ever. And like lots of yuppie businesses and.

Speaker 7: The way how so?

Speaker 3: The hipster Whittaker event, yeah.

Speaker 5: Everywhere it's I don't even remember the place like this at all. But I did bump into some more characters. I saw Rob Los Ricos and.

UNKNOWN: Oh well.

Speaker 3: It's still happening here. Don't you believe the reports man energy rules?

Speaker 5: We just need the definition of. What it is?

Speaker 3: What it is right?

Speaker 7: So when you describe it as a little a mini Portland, I mean are you? Saying there's a lot of self. Styled artists and bohemians on the scene now.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, they probably I.

Speaker 5: Mean it could.

Speaker 2: Use even a little more.

Speaker 5: Of that I guess. I don't know it seems. More just, I don't know, maybe it's that I've been away from it for so long and live in a rural setting and coming back to it and seeing it just really feels a lot different to me. It doesn't feel like the Eugene of 10 years ago.

Speaker 3: No no.

Speaker 5: You know, I. I was sitting in the whiskey bar, which is in the old new day bakery, and Imagine the first time I was there, which. Was like 98. I'm ordering, some sort of eggs and bacon or something and I lookout. And where there was the steakhouse, which had just closed at the time, there was a free space, and there was a chess board there, and sunshine and some friends were there. They're freaks riding all over the place, people. You know cards. On looking all dirty dragon carts and. Everything and. It really had a spirit of like. Liberation and. Freedom and. And today to sit in that same spot and our whiskey. The whiskey was good. I was drinking, but the rest of it. It just it just seemed like a different world and the cozy has their big big factory there and I love their beer too, but it's just.

Speaker 3: Ohhh change time for reading.

Speaker 5: There's a different reality than than the one.

Speaker 7: Wow, now how do you feel about that, John?

Speaker 3: Oh yeah, things are much much quieter. For sure, I'm just doing the show writing, traveling and things have gone to other places and I think everybody's looking. For what to do? What are we? I think the energy. I've said this before on the air. But I think. There is. Still a lot of energy, but it doesn't know where to go. It's it seems like more like that. You know it's not like people are. All defeated so much, it's just kind. Of what are we supposed to be? Doing right now.

Speaker 5: I think it's a more confusing time than ever for people who have all. That angst and want. To can see through the reality of what's going on and see the. What what, what they're up? Against and I think what we had going for us? 10 years ago was. There was a there. Was a lot of us at the time. There was, I could think of like 50 people who were all centered around here, and trying to get things going. And now it seems like there are people, but it's not that number and I think also. In general, a resisting spirit was sort of. Squashed in a. Way, but I think it's seeping up. I think I. Could see it seeping out.

Speaker 3: I've just been noticing that there seems to be solidarity in some ways that hasn't been seen in a while, like this Pelican Bay Strike Thunder strike thing. They're they're people doing stuff behind that it's scattered. I mean, it's all across the country. And I don't mean everybody in the country did it. But different locales. What does it seem like to you, Diego?

Speaker 7: Well, 11. Of the things I actually wanted to discuss with you was my experiences at the San Francisco Anarchist bookfair this spring. By the way, I. Was disappointed that you didn't make it. But honestly. You didn't. You didn't miss much. Yeah it was. It was interesting because normally when I've attended that event in the past, I've been tabling and haven't had much of an opportunity to go around and actually check out different stalls and see what. You know just what sort. Of ideological package other anarchists. Are peddling and but this year I was on. The hunt for two very. Specific out of print anarchist titles. So I and since I was down there more as a consumer and to socialize, I did something I'd never done before and I actually. Visited every single table there and all I've got to say John is. We are a long way from anarchy after leftism. I mean that was my take on it.

Speaker 5: That was.

Speaker 7: I mean, it seems like AK Press has a stranglehold on the anarchist imagination. And I mean, I encountered people who were peddling straight up unadulterated Leninist, and even Stalinist literature.

Speaker 5: Well, green anarchy, the magazine. Used to come out of this town was one of the main opponents of all that, and with that being gone, and even anarchy magazines seem is only coming out once a year. The other power force behind the anti left thing what's going to fill that vacuum. It's going to fill with what's easiest and most simplistic and what. There's I mean, there's there are far more leftists than there are anarchists.

Speaker 3: I think fading though there's.

Speaker 7: It's true, unfortunately, that they won't stop using the word though.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's true. They call themselves anarchists when there's very little anarchistic nature to it.

Speaker 3: You know I'm going up to the Portland anarchist Book Fair this weekend and I heard that they couldn't. They were they wanted a panel of different flavors, different tendencies of what is anarchist and. And I heard they couldn't find they found the green anarchy, anarcho permiss types? No, I don't think they were talking about just me. But and anarcho feminist, but they couldn't find. Any leftists to show up?

Speaker 5: I mean I'm.

Speaker 3: That I'm not trying to say they're not there. But I mean one thing I. I tend to see as they don't they. Don't come out. And do battle so much, but they still are. I guess they're still entrenched in some ways, they're old.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and we're I'm talking about the Bay Area too. I mean, it's a whole different reality down there.

Speaker 5: Kevin Keating

Speaker 3: So a couple of scenes. Coming out I don't know. If you heard of this Deegan, but blackout looks real promising and they're on the road to putting out number one in a few months. And I.

Speaker 7: Yes, I actually connected with that crew when I was at the book fair. They were staying at Aragorn's and yeah, it was great.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

Speaker 7: I was I was. Very inspired meeting up with them, they seemed like they had a lot of energy and. You know I got. I got the impression that they had followed through as well and we had a long. Discussion about. You know what their vision was and what they wanted to create and I. Walked away feeling. Pretty optimistic about my interaction with them.

Speaker 3: Good, good and good species. Trader #5.

Speaker 5: We'll be out next decade.

Speaker 3: Well, Kevin and I are working on it. It’s. It's slowly moving. Let's say that.

UNKNOWN: I mean.

Speaker 5: I definitely had hopes when green anarchy was put to. Euthanized that there would. Be more filling the void, and I think it's one of the dangers in doing a project that was big as that is that people get lazy and they always look to that to do everything for them. You know, it's like in the activist scene. There's always a couple of people who are doing everything and then when they drop out, everything falls because everyone's. So dependent on them and I think that's that did happen and I hope that the Lord can be filled with something. I mean, scenes are great, but something more significant than that. But then there's the whole, our magazines and paper is really relevant with it. Everyone going online for all their. Information I don't know.

Speaker 7: That's a trend that's really starting to concern me that I think we're in the beginning phases of seeing like the death of print media.

Speaker 5: And unfortunately the green Anarchy website is no longer up, which had all the back issues in the archives and.

Speaker 7: No, you can still get issues one through 4I. Mean get online? Well you might need an interpreter though, because everything is misspelled on this new website.

Speaker 5: If you hold it up to a mirror, I think it says a lot of deep stuff.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, it just.

Speaker 7: Came out of nowhere like news from nowhere. Yeah it was one day it just appeared on the Internet and.

Speaker 5: Well, for the listeners that don't know, they're the first four issues of green anarchy were done from someone who was part of the original green Anarchist project in England. And then after #4 it was handed over to a collective that turns it into something significant, something that. It was meaningful, was consistent, coherent.

Speaker 4: Go Karen.

Speaker 5: You know it didn't, just. It wasn't a collage of anything from Cindy Milstein to whatever.

Speaker 3: He said modestly.

Speaker 5: And it became something significant that went around the world. You know, 70,000 copies 1/4 and 100 pages. And unfortunately the person who started it, . And then there was 20 issues that went on in that format until issue 25, about two years ago and the editor who started it and left it #4. Is pretending that those 20 issues never existed and is going to start up? Again with #5.

Speaker 7: I mean correct me if I'm wrong, didn't he? He leave to go pursue a. Career working at a KO a campcraft.

Speaker 5: Yes, he was going into the Wilds of the KO, A campground to connect with his feral roots and be a dog.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I've just had a few heated e-mail exchanges with him recently because I the first thing that set me off was I noticed that. On this new. Green anarchy website. There's actually a copyright notice.

UNKNOWN: I was like.

Speaker 7: Hey, what's up with that, are you? Trying to copyright the. Two, the combination of the two. Words or the concept? Yourself and. Anyway, we had a we. Had a heated exchange and I suggested to him that. If he's gonna. Be putting out a paper, he it. Would probably be in his. Best interest to. Take a few. English classes, which is allegedly his native tongue and he countered by saying that. You don't have to know how to. Spell to have a. Belief in a. Society based on mutual aid and voluntary cooperation. But I do think you. Need to spell if you're gonna put. Out a publication, I don't know.

Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: How do you guys feel about that?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean if you're going to garden or like living in a living in. A community together? Yeah, that's not necessary. But if you're going to put out a publication, it's a prerequisite to, or at least a proofreader.

Speaker 3: Literacy is always helpful if you're yeah.

Speaker 7: You should be, you should. Know how to spell the word inner.

Speaker 3: There we go.

UNKNOWN: Well, I.

Speaker 5: Just want to put out to the listeners that. Don't be fooled by issue #5 of green anarchy, because it's it. It's just I. I think it's pretty disrespectful to the hard work that went in for four or five years. Putting out something and just to pretend that it never existed IW would have had no problem with. I mean I didn't like the idea that he was starting it up again under that. Name when he could have used any name. Because I mean when you think of it that magazine, the one we did was the was green anarchy. You know the other thing, I don't know what it was, but to pretend it didn't. Exist is really? I mean is that the type of society he wants based on mutual aid where you just pretend things you don't like aren't there? Or do you actually? Discuss them and debate them and appreciate differences of opinion.

Speaker 3: There you go, yeah.

Speaker 7: I don't, I don't, I don't. Think that's really the world he envisions? But I will say that I still there was a noticeable absence of like anti siev critique and theory at the book for the sheer but. On a positive note, I did, I do continue to encounter. People all the time. Who were very influenced by the real version of green anarchy that we all worked on? And people who. Who say to this day that it had a big impact on their lives and their worldview, and so, yeah, hopefully we'll we'll see a resurgence at some point.

Speaker 5: Well, we could just look at the new #5 the copyrighted #5 as the final statement against symbolic language, ? Since this one makes sense.

Speaker 3: And you get it, yes, well, do you?

UNKNOWN: Well, hey.

Speaker 3: You've been writing too, right? You've been. I haven't seen. I haven't seen something. You've worked on, but I've I'm. I'm hopeful I'm hopeful in that area I'm sure you're holding up your end.

Speaker 7: I am I. Yeah, I had something published, fairly hefty tone actually. Recently I was really the editor and researcher on this project, but. Yeah my I have a few psychotic scribblings in there. I'll send you. A copy.

Speaker 3: Oh lovely, thank you.

Speaker 5: And in his spare. Time he goes to bluegrass festivals. Ohh, John.

Speaker 7: Every once in a while I gotta maintain my connection with the hoi polloi. Well hey, I want to thank you, both of you for keeping it anti sieve and keeping it anti leftist. I'm gonna go eat some dinner now and hopefully kick back and be entertained by you both. So don't don't let me down, but John, I do want to say on a closing note regarding Steely Dan Fagan, and Becker came right out and proclaim themselves too against nature in 2000 on their comeback album with the same name.

Speaker 3: Very good. That's right, the Critics Choice album with its ironic title that went over your head. I guess. Hey, thanks for calling Deegan. Great to hear your voice.

Speaker 7: Alright, good talking to you guys.

Speaker 5: Hey you got time for a quick song John.

Speaker 7: Alright bye.

Speaker 3: Not yet, how about how about the little content for the program?

Speaker 5: Not OK.

Speaker 3: That was great. That was great. reconnecting there. Well, I'm just going to throw out a couple of new things,. Been leading with some action of the week thing instead of the bring down of the week the actual news or the news of the official last month. In fact, June 15th was the and I talked to somebody just the other day was up there, the so-called Hockey riot. Which sort of started as a hockey riot but. That was for real. That was very focused and the anarchists up there knew there was going to be a riot and so not having been there I didn't know. Well, maybe it's just one of these sports fans. Nutty deal with no but no. I guess it was. It was tremendous and somebody else who saw hours of footage who wasn't there. The same impression, but so anyway and then about a week ago a little over a week ago, Val de Souza Mateo or from Mateo. That's major action against the high speed train there. 200 people injured 188 of. Them were pigs and also.

Speaker 5: Only a couple of people injured.

Speaker 3: There you go, well only a couple of bipeds that are you, but that's such an uprising that's that's been going on for years.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: The villages there and they don't want that monstrous thing.

Speaker 5: We used to report on it in green anarchy. In the very early days, exactly goes back that.

Speaker 3: Way yeah, that's for sure. Well anyway this one the one this week that I'm thinking of anyway has a tragic start. This not is not an unalloyed. Happy days really, but Saturday this probably most of you have heard about this. The 19 year old who was shot to death in the Bayview Hunters Point area of San Francisco, shot 10 times. He didn't pay his Muni fare and paid his bus fare, didn't pay his. 2 bucks they murdered the guy and. There was. There was a big turn out spontaneously there in that part of town and then later on in the Mission District. 100 people took to the streets attacked. The went to the Mission police station were going that way. Attacked the 1st. Cop cruiser and protect ATM's. Wells Fargo and really ramped it up and nobody got arrested. They faced down the cops and this was only by the way. Speaking of the this blowback, in terms of what murder the cops are doing, the Charles Hill who was. The street drunk evidently was killed in. Let's see, I think it was July 3rd and 100 or so. People clogged the whole Bart thing, brought it to a stop for over 3 hours, vandalizing machines and blocking trains. Yeah, that guy was downtown and was killed. He was too drunk to even stand up and they just they just blew him away. So as with the Portland several months ago and many other places, Denver comes to mind, people rising up against the against this violence. For the cops.

Speaker 5: And let's hope they don't get roped into leftist politics when they do that.

Speaker 3: There you go.

Speaker 5: Let's hope it these are these spontaneous eruptions. Or truer to any. Anything then any political organized riots so they're always inspiring, yeah?

Speaker 3: Yeah, the ones that just jump off and people just get there and.

Speaker 5: Like the leftists are always there to try to Co, opt it and try to put it. In a box. As to why they did it and related to quote capitalism and imperialism when it's much deeper than that, it goes way down.

Speaker 3: Well, they’re still building that. Stuff, I'm sure.

Speaker 5: And the hockey riots, my always my favorite thing about hockey was always. The fights so. Yeah, I didn't. I don't know about the game, but. I like when they fight.

Speaker 3: Well, two other deals and these are, sadly enough, the two. The two themes. Guess which the first thing is. Close SHO.

Speaker 5: Oh, what shooting shooting? Shooting shootings.

Speaker 3: Well, not true. That's that's so passe. He's to trivialize this, but now we're seeing these family massacres and this the front page today of the garden. This down, yeah, down your way.

Speaker 5: Yep, close to me.

Speaker 3: Medford OR and Southern Oregon down South from Eugene here. Yeah, 51 year old guy in Medford stabbed his wife and their four young children to death. Just the family massacre right there in the middle of they don't know why. Oh, and the same. This also from today's thing. This the pathology 17 year old boy in West Palm Beach, FL killed his parents with a hammer and invited all of his friends via Facebook for a big old party. And they had a party while the bodies were in the next room and spreading one other part of this. This was Sunday guy got on a subway train Santiago, pulled out a gun and started blasting away, killed 2 wounded four. Or left the subway station and killed himself.

Speaker 5: This the.

Speaker 3: Thing I just said this.

Speaker 5: Regeneration of it all.

Speaker 3: Yeah, decomposing and that isn't politics though, is it? I mean, that's very important.

Speaker 5: And it's obvious people aren't supposed to be living the way that we're forced to be. Living to live. I mean we're crunched together stuff's thrown down our throats. You know It’s not a. It's not how we're supposed to be living. I like to think in terms of supposed to be, but it's not how biologically we evolved. It's not how emotionally and intellectually we. We evolved and it's we're stuffed into this cage and.

Speaker 3: We see how unhealthy it is and it more and more severe. The way it, it's just so it's shocking, but it's but it's chronic and this not something Oh well, that happens. It's once a year, not like every day.

Speaker 5: And something I, something I notice when I go to more urban areas than where I live is everyone is so dependent on their little things in their hands that they're punching them, punching into they're getting directions, they're doing whatever they're talking to. Their friends are texting, they're. I don't even know what they're doing really, but they have these things that they hold all the time and look at and they don't realize the world's all around.

Speaker 3: Just the screen.

Speaker 5: And it's getting worse and worse.

Speaker 3: More than spend your whole life before this screen. Have we got something?

Speaker 5: We got a song here for you. This Eileen jewel. She's one of my new favorites and she's going to be. On the West. Coast this here is if you catch me stealing.

Speaker 6: Well, if you catch. Me, Steven, I don't mean no. Well, it's my family and it must be carried on. I've got 19 men. One more I'm gonna let that go. Have you ever seen Peaches? Just get a taste of my. Alabama Chattanooga Specifically in Memphis, TN. Like my Peaches just. Catch me stealing don't mean no Steven, I don't mean. My family and it must be carried my family and then must be carried.

Speaker 5: Yes, yes Elaine Jewel keeping her roll and we're being based out by the ballroom.

Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some strange reverberations in here. Probably doesn't pick up anyway. Some Action News action besides San Francisco action. This was just in yesterday. But it happened. July 2nd Athens, where else four parked cop cars were torched and that. Some of the story is interesting in a sense. Were talking about snitches. Maybe we will talk about. Snitches a little bit. Oh yeah, cool. There were security guards right? By these four police cruisers they chose. To look the other way, although. Doesn't say oh many anarchists, but there were few and just. And just saying that was wise. That's wise not to notice, so forget to set fire to these. Girls, when they did OK in. Near Rostock, Germany, northern Germany, GM crop sites, raided and destroyed July 9th. You know, there's always often a lag. My dad just in the past day or two reported first to field up there. Potatoes and wheat. This all GMO stuff funded by the German Government two days later on July 11th, the dozen attackers threatened guards with pepper spray and bats at a different site in ubungen, which is a little bit South of Rostock in a. State and this had to do with modified potatoes, wheat and maize. $400,000 damage. Roughly speaking 2 or €250,000. So going strong in Germany. Another July 9th. Well I mentioned just in passing the. What's going on with the hunger Strike Security unit housing? Prisoners at Pelican Bay the worst joint in the California system. I don't know exactly where that's at now, but there has been solidarity expressed and this a case of some of that banners dropped in Philadelphiand other more noise demos, one in Kitchener ON at a women's prison. There it's good to see that. connection or network. You know that it's some tie. Last Tuesday, a group of masked people attacked a patrol 5 cops in the Exarchia in. In the middle of Athens, attack the cops with bats, wood stones and hammers. Two of them went to.

Speaker 5: The hospital saying we can say Eugene's mellowed out, but they have not known. Out there in Athens.

Speaker 3: Apparently not. Yeah, and this interesting and they just announced last Thursday. I think it was. Last Thursday that. The that it was revealed when were another in Montreal a special comp unit called surveillance of marginal and anarchist groups activities or gamma for short in French. That's the acronym. Something like that. Well that same night. A condo developer's office was attacked. Windows broken paints turn around. So maybe I have to reply to the new copy and I going on. Arson and a house burned. It was part of the Forestry Brigade and Oroko Forest, Chile. Down South in Mapuche territory and 4 4th St Trucks. Continuing resistance against forestry and mining in ancestral Mapuche territory. Don't know exactly where this happened. It was posted last Friday, also last Friday. 12 telecommunications vehicles torched in the Athens suburb of Morrissey belonged to thellenic Telecommunications Organization Cell conspiracy of Cells of fire and other urban groups, and back to Germany over the weekend and the Kreitzburg in Berlin. Police were pelted with stones bottles. And I'd forgotten this. It was ten years ago last week that the Big Genoa thing happened to G. 8 late July 2001. Just some weeks before 911 and in general, that's when Carla Giuliani was shot to death. 34 cops were injured in the Kreitzburg and the Glen Cove occupy. Mission that's in the north part of the San Francisco Bay. Native folks are trying to prevent a park from paving over a sacred site there, and native folks leading the way. They're they're still actively defending that this has gone on for several weeks now. Fire to the prisons issue. The love in the spring issue. I don't know one spin out. I just got it. It has been said that this wandered away from me. The green anarchy, or anarcho primitivist slant, but it does say that they oppose industrialism in their editorial.

Speaker 5: This morning the directional list.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, full of news. They put out a hefty thing full of reports and the brand new refers. This more melting.

Speaker 5: The first journal still comes.

Speaker 3: Out it still does. They're still doing it, they're hanging. On yeah, the buildings right? Just showed up here yesterday, interesting. And they're more explicitly anarchist, and it's full of news full of action reports and. Very cool cover. The Journal of Ecological Resistance, yeah, looks good. It looks like this not thrown together that if they're together they're they copped to the fact that they're not riding high versus not riding. High right now.

Speaker 5: Where are they at it these days? Too soon too soon.

Speaker 3: Still, I think so, yeah, and let's see ohh the black cat sabotage handbook is out here. This pretty delicious. You can go to black cat sabotage dot WordPress. This a this a scene. It's. Been floating around, but now it's widely available. And another one, Zane is called knowing the land is resistance from Canada from Ontario. It's has to do with being land based. You've read about that and moving to the resistance part, seeds of resistance is their focus now. So here we. Are we know the land the and what else?

Speaker 5: Do we do? We think it's an essential? Place to start.

Speaker 3: Having the readiness.

Speaker 5: Being rated somewhere well.

Speaker 7: As you noted.

Speaker 3: There was a. This I don't know if anybody wants to call in knows anything about this, but there was a there was a certain amount of news. News mongering for anarchist General Assembly in Oakland on the 16th. This past weekend. Never heard anything about it.

Speaker 5: I always cringe when I hear that word General Assembly.

Speaker 3: But it's going to be one in Portland on the 30th. This Atticus General Assembly. Maybe they didn't quite call it that in Auckland, but you wonder.

Speaker 5: It just sounds anarchistic and General Assembly.

Speaker 3: And I always think of Seattle where these great big spoke council, as if they're going to decide who can do what.

Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then the anarchy is what we said are there is anyway?

Speaker 3: Yes yes, oh, I remember being barred from the thing and they couldn't pass out this flyer. We had stuff in it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember but. We made it happen anyway.

Speaker 3: Yeah, you can have your assembly or whatever but anyway, I don't know what might come out of that. And I just got this from CB up in Victoria. The Victorianarchist book. September 10th and 11th is a little ways off, but the deadline in case you want to be. There table or. Do a workshop is the 25th. I think that's only three days away, July 25th. So if you just went to Victorianarchist before you get the details and this weekend in response to the caller in part July 23rd and 24th, Portland State University, Smith. Building didn't remember.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: Our friends from Philadelphia were there. Years ago I'm going to. I'm going to give a talk at 2:30 Saturday afternoon 2:30 to 3:45.

Speaker 5: I think it.

Speaker 3: Is beyond patriarchy. Margaret killjoy? A bunch of or first is going to be there too, and lots of tabling Charles will be there, I'm sure. Yeah, OK. That's about it.

Speaker 5: It seems like. Everyone winds up in Portland at some point. No, I went the. Other way?

Speaker 3: Yes he did.

Speaker 5: I'm the anti trend center.

Speaker 3: Carl didn't do it.

Speaker 5: Carl, didn't he's still here still sitting in that same chair. He was six years ago.

Speaker 4: I think it is the same chair.

Speaker 3: Right? Did you want to say something about this? Next thing I think.

Speaker 5: That's so important. Well, it's interesting. There's a. There's a market in the little town I live and I'm not going to give the exact town, but it's farm local farmers, organic farmers every Monday and usually go down there and grab whatever is and grow in my garden. And I live up in the hills a little more so I'm a couple weeks behind. So maybe my strawberries aren't ready when the people in the valley are, so I go down there and pick up some stuff and hang out with people. And this week I was disappointed to hear that see Suzanne Savoy, who lives a couple of. Valleys over from me show. Up there. And for those who don't know, Suzanne Savoy was one of the snitches in the green scare stuff that happened a few years ago. That put some friends of ours in prison and for a really long time, and. You know, I. I showed up when they were showing the if a tree falls in Ashland, which is the L the movie about the ELF and Dan McGowand she's in it and she showed up there and I let her know that she wasn't welcome there and I was one of the few people to let her know she wasn't welcome there, which seems to be how a lot of people are handling. Snitching as you come out of prison and they see it as though it's something they did in the past. What are we supposed to do well? You know I may be living out in the woods not being involved in the anarchy scene, but there's one thing I won't tolerate and that snitches out in public acting like they did. Nothing wrong, that they should be welcomed back in the community. So I was starting to gather some people but she saw me and left but I think it's important to let people know that they're not welcome and that's. The least we can do. I can think of a lot more we could do, but that's the least we can do is say, hey, you send a bunch of people to. Your actions caused people to have their freedom taken away for up to a decade of their lives, and you have the nerve to come out and act like everything's fine. You did your time and we should welcome you back. Well that. Doesn't work for me. You know, and I let her know that. Nashlyn couple months ago. She came up to me and said, well, right, and if you ever want to talk and I said. I got nothing. To say to you, just keep moving and her husband got aggro with me and. I said you're just a talker and I said well. That's ironic, I wasn't the one. Who talked but?

Speaker 3: Walked into that one.

Speaker 5: But ? These people should stay home. They should move away and . Whether it's Eugene, whether it's Ashland, whoever it is. It’s pretty despicable. To be a snitch.

Speaker 3: And it fosters more if there's. If it's, it's fine to go ahead and do that, and they look around and the so-called community doesn't have a problem. Well, doesn't that push us from? One of that right?

Speaker 5: Yeah, well, one of the one of the. Farmers there who. I thought was a little more radical than he actually is. I was trying to gather some support she saw me doing them left but anyway, I said well there's a snitch here somebody sent and his response was well, aren't they out of prison? The other people, so what's what's the big deal? It's over with right? And I thought, wow. What would you do if you were taken away? From your family for five 6-7 years.

Speaker 1: When you got out.

Speaker 5: Would just you just be like oh OK? That was Pat and Pat the snitch on the back and say well, you got me let's be friends now let's live in this community. Let's it that. I mean it, it goes across you don't. Even have to be political. To know that snitches aren't someone you want around you. I mean you go to any community. In this country where. People aren't, living all plush and they don't like pigs they don't like snitches. They don't like people who want to take their fruit. Little bit of freedom that they have away from. Them it I.

Speaker 3: Don't know if it's community if there. Isn't that minimum level of? Solidarity, ? Of being together and trusting each other. Yeah, that’s something to just gloss over that there's going to be more. There's going to be more. People in. Prison and so this not just. Oh, that was that, like you said, that's.

Speaker 5: I mean, anyone could be doing prison for any rent they could be doing something that's technically. Illegal or not? And they can be thrown in prison anyway. You know we live in a police state, whether it's an overt one or one that's more subtle at any moment. We can be thrown.

Speaker 3: In prison, people are being grand jury. They're being arrested now. I mean, and those people deserve our support and respect, and it's not support and respect to just. Tolerate the what's working. With the machine we're trying to stop with the whole combine of death that we're we're opposing.

Speaker 5: Interesting to hear that Jake is in prison and normally I am not in anyone going to prison but. You know, at least in prison, snitches get dealt with more appropriately. Than they do on the outside. I'll say that. Much for old Jake.

Speaker 3: That could well happen. OK, a little well 5413460645 still. Plenty of time to call. In speak to the right one if you're sort. Of there.

Speaker 5: Good time for a quick song, John.

Speaker 3: Please quote song. I got a couple of techno things and then there's every week in just a. Week you can. And sometimes you have the add of the week or Carl's feature ideas that couldn't possibly go wrong. I love that it's so good. Here's here's a just some of the stuff is. Just so zany. From from simsig. This a Finnish company, the latest stuff. It's hard to describe, but what it's? Here's theadline. Here, tactile sensations sensations on screen, no mechanical vibration required. In other words what this about, It’s interfaces where you're not really. Touching anything it's a. It's a virtual thing. In one respect it. In other words, it replicates the feeling of touch isn't that incredible. It just holds my mind.

Speaker 5: The feeling of feeling.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. It’s just I had. To reread this a few times. What's just going on? You know it just blows my mind. The feel of textures ranging from rough to smooth, sticky, slippery, whatever. It's it doesn't use pixels, it uses texels or tactile. Pixels wacko. I mean I don't know. Even quite what they mean.

Speaker 5: It's being embraced. I mean, people are embracing that and that's the scary thing that there's something. So lacking in people's lives, some sort of authenticity that's lacking that they need to embrace something like that.

Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it must be anything so wildly synthetic and artificial and far from the earth or anything called natural at all. I mean, it's almost if you if we sat around trying to dream up something. It would be that crazy.

Speaker 5: Yeah, like a like a spoof that seems like.

Speaker 3: Yeah, well, here's something from Sundays. New York Times. I thought of you in terms of music. So It’s a piece called. The songs have now sound a lot like then, and the whole point. And I missed this and I'm maybe not so current for one thing, but I always thought.

Speaker 5: It's one way to put it.

Speaker 3: In my advanced years it was the idea that you could hear a song or some songs and what period that was. It had these associations. It has certain sound and certain style. You know, even up to grunge or whatever. Anyway, the point of. This they're talking about how with something like this, part of it is auto tune where it's a pitch correcting thing for vocals, and that's part of it, but it's not all of it, it's the whole thing though is what's called atemporality. In other words, now there would be no way of identifying the sound now. It's so well I guess synthetic for one.

Speaker 5: It's like the end times and post modernism. The end point of it all, it's just all become this. That has no specific characteristics. It's all just an assemblage of everything mushed together and has no detail. That's that's recognizable.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's precisely it. They didn't mention postmodernism, but yes, that's a that's that feature. Just you just cobble everything together and it doesn't matter where it comes from and. And of course, process through the high tech stuff. It's very heavily processed, not just the auto-tune exactly digital gloss, .

Speaker 5: To smooth it all out and.

Speaker 3: So it's the sound of when it's, so we're even more. It's one more way of removing us from some time and place. Really interesting, it's and this person is mystified by like how did that happen? But it's a long. Piece and it just lays it out. You know that's what it is. It's interesting.

Speaker 5: How stuff does. Slip in, whether it's computers or these little gadgets or music, and you don't realize that as you're or even living in Eugene. And it all just creeps up around you. All these yuppie stores and restaurants and if you're living in it where it's a techno world or Eugene, you don't realize it. But then if you step outside it and you look back and you're like wow. I mean I remember. Being in I'm. Not that old, but I remember being in high school and computers were something you.

Speaker 4: Could take as an elective.

Speaker 5: You know it wasn't and now. In preschool, there's probably kids using computers as a mandatory compulsory thing, and that's one thing I draw the line with my kids, they don't. They don't go on computers, they don't you. Know they? I try to help nurture them in a way where they're living in authentic experience as possible.

Speaker 3: Despite the music you play. That's all.

Speaker 5: Actually my 4 1/2 year old can hear George Jones on the radio. She knows George Jones. She can distinguish George Jones from Lefty Frizzell from Hank Williams from all the greats.

Speaker 3: Amazing and Carl is all down.

Speaker 5: You can't do that Jones.

Speaker 3: With him

Speaker 5: Carl has great taste in music. Where's your show, Carl?

Speaker 4: Monday night from. 8 to 10.

Speaker 5: And I can stream that.

Speaker 4: You can absolutely stream that. People are probably streaming this show right now at AWVA radio.org.

Speaker 3: Thousands of perhaps millions, around the. Globe they're doing just. Perhaps, perhaps, but here's another. Well I've got. I'm not gonna just do all the tech stuff here, but I thought this interesting and somewhat related to these other ones. It's a new. It's a new video game called Shadow Cities, so now more and more in the. Arts and Entertainment section you. And even more on TV, I think. You have a. Lot more ads. For video games gaming well. This person here is saying this. Is this shadow cities the most interesting, provocative, innovative for reaching in the world? And now I'm thinking that's just another video game. You're talking about. But and you could I. Don't know, make your. Own decision about this, but. But the but the tricky thing about it is when you're playing a video game, and I actually never played a video game. As I understand it, the stuff on the screen.

Speaker 5: Did they have? Did they have video? Games when you were a kid, John.

Speaker 3: I don't think they had electricity yet. But anyway, I'm so I'm reading I'm trying to understand this. You know what are what are they talking about here when you log in you get the actual? Location, so in other words, the actual world becomes virtual. Isn't that strange? And another thing that I can't quite comprehend here and so like if you're at a certaintersection or something that becomes part of the.

Speaker 4: Game, it's that game called Go outside and we read that.

Speaker 3: Yes, yes exactly. That's the game you want. To get go outside.

Speaker 4: You can now buy the module to like backyard.

Speaker 5: And people become so alienated and then. Wonder why there's people slaughtering their families? You know and. During all sorts of things you would never expect, being addicted is all every substance imaginable.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 5: You know becoming the bees, whatever it is, like all the different things, all different alleys that people go down to, escape to escape their alienation.

Speaker 3: Or disembodied?

Speaker 5: You know, in a sense.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 3: Well, I was mentioning last night the novel by David Foster Wallace the posthumous. Novel the pale. It's quite big. A few months ago I don't. Think it's already. faded, but about this IRS agent it. Works at a. Giant IRS place in Illinois somewhere and. From the inside. Out and you're just thinking. What could be the most mind numbing? Tedious stupid thing to do. And it's true, I meand it describes. Anyway, the point is this modernity, and so people like you say I think got to be diverted from that got to be distracted. And it's like a 600 page novel, and I think it's really something because you and it's set in the 80s. What a more perfect decade. Although Chuck always says no, the current decade is always the worst one, and were saying that, I guess since. Somebody weren't here.

Speaker 5: I always liked that. What was that one book in that movie? It was in set in the 80s. American American psycho. One of my favorite movies. Of all times. has that going.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they read the novel. It's just the. Incredible and what a.

Speaker 5: Statement The extreme alienation and.

Speaker 3: Flight Corp.

Speaker 5: It seemed it seemed like the 80s was the pinnacle, but then. It got worse. The 80s was just setting the template for how bad it was. Going to get.

Speaker 3: But I think there's more resistance than the 80s. Maybe we're going to see if.

Speaker 5: I was the optimist.

Speaker 3: Just around the corner liberation. Well, another piece about Internet use. This something that is very unsurprising. It doesn't take too much to comprehend this one study from people at Columbia, Harvard and Wisconsin about about memory and how it goes away when it's on the Internet. What do ? It probably didn't require thousands of dollars to. Be spent on that one. And I'm glad you got to. Be up here rotten. Been a long time.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's good. I'm going to try to make it up more, especially if this resistance you talk of starts to pick up. And because of the. Whiskey Bar over there in the winter care.

Speaker 3: You two will get sucked in my phone and In Eugene who what's the problem?

Speaker 5: And maybe next time I'll come for a Monday and Tuesday. And sitting on Carl's show.

Speaker 4: There you go. You need to come up and do a guest spot.

Speaker 5: Yeah place on nasal pickings here.

Speaker 3: And disgusting and dreadful. Be on the. Show I don't know.

Speaker 5: You should . While I'm not here, Carl you should. Try to slip into countries right now and then.

Speaker 2: But yeah.

Speaker 5: I'm John show.

Speaker 3: Well, he won't let me slip in steely. Dan, right so I.

Speaker 5: Don't think for good reason as vegan pointed out well, yes, it is fun coming up here and. You know, I noticed today I was at the wandering goat, some good friends of mine and there was someone spray painted some anarchist propaganda on the outside and it brought back memories. Although I do love. Those people stay away from wondering.

Speaker 3: What is the spray paint on your hands there what?

Speaker 5: When it just.

Speaker 3: Is that about?

Speaker 5: It was a ploy to raise. Price is $0.10.

Speaker 3: Well, I think it'll be just me. Next week I will see probably Catherine and Cliff at some point. Probably not dog. Oh and oh, one other thing. One other thing is, since the amicus book Fair Sunday night at in Corvallis at Oregon State is the Society for. Philosophy in the contemporary world. I think it is having thankfully a several days thing but Michael Becker's going to be on tap. Michael myself andy Field are going to. Do a 3 hour deal. That evening Sunday evening the 24th, and I think it's open to anyone. Bump on in and get down to the academic conference. Fall asleep or not.

Speaker 5: Well John, thanks. For having me Carl always a pleasure. I gotta go feed the horse and get the wagon hitch so we can head.

Speaker 3: On home, thanks for listening.

Speaker 5: I'm going to play us last song. This Steve Earle from his album called Towns dedicated to the lake. Great Townes Van Zandt is with Tom Morello from Rage Against Machine.

Speaker 1: Won't you let your lungs to me? Mine are collapsing? Being bitterly breathe up times, passing for thou taking breath thou give pray the Dain poisons, standing among the ones that living lonely and deceit. If you try to take it on your hands. Better leave his dream alone and try to find another. And cross the seal from call the devil partner with the. Chief who killed the. Region cancer seal the river that it's map. Take the waters prisoner scream.

Speaker 2: Yes, Sir.

Speaker 1: You ain't got you.

Speaker 8: Man to a good looking girl. Well I've been around this big wine world that home on the hill that's mine. I've got the money. And got lots of time. I'm not too old to cut the mustard anymore. I can still get around like a deed before, so come. Along with me, my sweet sweet. Horn, I'm an old old man searching for fun.

07-12-2011

[audio]

"Origins and the Trickster" part one. The Pale King and modern tedium. Action news. Obesity, autism, weather, massacre shootings worsen and more people see through the lies. One stellar call (about the lie of technology).

07-05-2011

[audio]

The loss of our friend Jamie Owsley (see 5.4.2010 and 12.1.2009 shows). Ups and downs of the week. Art news. Technoplague threatens planet. Action reports, especially Val Susa, Italy! Four excellent calls.

06-28-2011

[audio]

Get a cyber hug from Sense-Droid! If A Tree Falls movie. Nuke plants under threat of fire, floods. Jensen's new low. New and continuing resistance, action news, upcoming events.

Speaker 1: Well sorry we had to end that a little early, but it's time for anarchy radio that was sounds of liberation. 1972 from Philadelphia. Well 7:00 o'clock. It's anarchy radio you're listening to KWVAUG. It's just me and John in the studio here and we're going to be doing Action News. All the normal things. 5413460645 is the number to call. We're going to start off with. Little Elvis Costello

Speaker 2: Anarchy Radio June 28th 20. 11 might have mixed Lieberman.

Speaker 1: Next week, it's conceivable he's still in the northwest.

Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. I want to say thank you for the messages for the support for thelp with the show. We all need support and I'm very grateful to hear from folks. It's real good. If a tree falls is now in regular. I guess art house. Theater rotation or distribution or whatever you. Call it saw it last Thursday. By the way, back in April, it was screened down in Ashland OR that was a. There was a Film Festival thing I think a small film. Festival there and the one or two of the green Scare people are from their neck of the woods. I just want to point this out. If some of you probably heard about this, but there's a bit of an issue because Marshall Curry, the director, invited pretty much everybody who was interviewed in the film. The even the timber people and various comps and Suzanne Savoy, who's a snitch who snitched? After Jake Ferguson did the other one of the other dominoes fell after that anyway, some people I know were not real happy that she was. She was there as if to say oh, join the party. You know you're welcome. Good to see you thing. Some people just. And I agree with that. And especially in light of Brianna waters a week or two ago, turning informant. That's one of the factors. Let's face it. I mean, if somebody. If people are fine with that if they're accepted, that just breeds more snitch culture, that is, that is definitely a factor. Oh, that's fine. What does it matter? Well, it matters a lot. If you're worried about people going to prison or doing a lot more time behind the snitch, that's that should not be. I don't think that should be tolerated quite frankly. Well anyway, if a tree falls, some of us saw it last week, it was it was full house, a couple for a couple of showings. Anyway here at the Bijou Theatre in Eugene. I think it's going. To be. It's going to show a lot of people, something they hadn't known much about. I mean, it's a mass market movie, it's. Very well done. Carey knows what he's doing. It’s. It's well put together. It's and it's got the human interest took. I mean, it's Daniel McGowan is the core of it what? How did he get to the place of deciding to do arsons in the general your left name? And so I think it's good for the general population that this will be in circulation. But there is. One thing that is funny though, and I. Got to ask. Marshall Curry about this on the air yesterday. He and Tim Lewis were doing the Jefferson Exchange show out of Ashland, picked it's picked up here by KRVM radio. Hour and a half movie. The A word was never uttered once and McGowan was anarchist. I worked with him here on projects back then and pretty much everything they pointed to. If not, I'm not saying everybody was a card carrying anarchist, but that was the name of the game. That was what was on the rise that. Was what was happening in Seattle. You know various types of being anarchist. There's there are different angles on that, but. So that could have been an accident, and even to the point this one was like that hilarious the contortion he went through. There's one place where it says in the film Eugene was fast becoming a capital of activism and I just laughed. Tory, the mayor said he was the one who famously said this the world. Capital of anarchy. I mean, it was not. It was not some secret or a dream of anarchism. It was like a. Huge huge as it got and not just in the media either so. In fact, the film goes to some lengths to point out that it's not about activism. It's about when activism fails, then what do you do then? And some people do this. Some people do that. Some people go home and give it up and whatever. But McGowan obviously sit forward to a few things. He certainly doesn't deny anyway 22. Some ideas. Got trimmed out of the film and he said, well, I decided to do that because I didn't want to have to make a whole separate even separate film to explain what anarchists are. And I don't know. I didn't find that completely convincing you. Know what? Why would you have? To . Go into some extended discourse about what that is. I mean, it's just saying that this was what was in the air and it and it's explained by what happened I. Mean, anyway, that was his. At least he copped to it he. Didn't say, oh I don't know what you mean. You're you’re being all sectarian or something. No, he copped to it but. OK, well here's some. They got some goodies tonight. Got some hot stuff you might remember. Maybe you can't remember just month or two ago. Remember the cyber French kiss that great cyber?

Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, some plastic. Deal you put your tongue in it and.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And then you. Like yeah, lick it.

Speaker 2: Back yeah, back in the spring that's a long ago from Japan.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, listen too long.

Speaker 2: Well now we got the sense roid. And this the ultimate companion for lonely singles. It's not a sex doll, it's.

Speaker 1: Oh, is that the armpit?

Speaker 2: No, it's well. I haven't heard of. That one it's a it's a thing. That gives you hugs to cyberspace. It's like a tailor's dummy. It looks like and you put on this. It's it goes back to the clunky old VR days where you put on all this gear and. And everything it reminded me of that Taylor's mannequin with silicon skin and it's packed with these sensors, and it replicates and embraces with thelp of air compressors. And isn't it crazy? It's just a we don't need actual French kissing or hugging. Same thing it's better.

Speaker 1: I saw a story today about a robot that in Nets the smell of human fear and it's supposed to make people in stressful situations work more diligently.

Speaker 2: Oh my God.

Speaker 1: They're talking about like bomb technicians.

Speaker 2: Who that’s highly weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the censoring is on display at the 3D and virtual reality Expo that kicked off last week in Tokyo. Much like robots, I guess this part of the claim here. This could give comfort to elderly people living alone. Yeah, they don't. They don't need any human companion to have or anything like that, but they couldn't have when they can have robotics and the sensory aid to give them a hug. Now and then, this an idea. That couldn't possibly be other than insane I. Would guess . Yeah, this techno fascist stuff keeps on coming. It's pointing the way It’s unmistakable. The direction of all this. Well, the left doesn't notice doesn't care the liver critique. What is what is this? Oh the robot, armpit oh, we're looking at the screen here and that's where the smell comes from, huh?

Speaker 1: OK. Yeah, you can Google robot. Armpit and you'll find it.

Speaker 2: Wow, so many good things. Well here is a good thing. I'm jumping this out of order from Action News Saturday night. You might heard about it up there. Saturday, 12th and Madison at midnight. A queer riot. This really something, yeah, what a. An amazing amount of energy and. And courage too. Reading from one of the various accounts. At midnight, crowd began to move quickly down. A quiet St. People jumped on the fence attempting to tear it down at a beer garden as others ran around attacking 2 empty police cars. Started out at about 200 people, then the police car windows were smashed. A fabulously queer and fierce crowd continued down. Broadway Capitol Hill District in Seattle. Penetrated the normally banal existence of the hill of Bank of AmericaTM smashed. In front of these defiant, queers cops were following them but unwilling to advance chance of we're here, we're queer. We're anarchist. We'll EFF you up. Excellent then toward the end, an American Apparel store was descended upon, and the majority of the windows were broken. And then they dispersed as the cops were increasing in number. What started out as a dance party quickly transformed into a confrontational presence of anti pride. Rowdy queers. You know the perspective of anti assimilation. Not gay pride but anti pride. Being out and proud in a way that pride was supposed to originally represent in the way of the Stonewall riot they these folks do not care for the yuppie LGBT agenda of assimilation in the capitalism tonight has made it clear again that there always us will never submit to the ruling classes. assimilation and tolerance. And as things continue to happen elsewhere, I think Senegal late last week. I think it was in on Thursday, Dakar, the capital of Senegal erupted in as part of the growing amount of resistance in various places on various continents. And it was surprising because. This W African country had never been seized in a coup somewhat democratic. They have elections that are considered to not fraudulent. Anyway, they usual stability. He was fighting in the. Streets on Thursday. And in Athens today, lots of riding general strikes started today against more quote austerity legislation that is imminent. It's about to be passed more E colIn Europe, another bout of the deadly German E coli. I still don't know for sure where that deadly bacteria has come from. I think about 50 have died so far. And also today the Los Alamos Nuclear Reservation in Northern New Mexico. Is threatened by wildfires, 2000 buildings and this a huge complex which was originally there to build the atom bomb in the 40s and also two Nebraska nuclear plants are being threatened. That by record-breaking floods along the MissourIn the latter 2 cases. Obviously it's has something to do with global warming. Extreme weather. The whole machine is making for more disaster, and we're reminded that global warming is the measure of total industrial output. Global warming is the measure of total industrial output. We repeat and in Iraq. After all this time, after all these years after. Half a million. Dead children after the gigantic toll there. May was the deadliest month for Americans in two years. All kinds of attacks. And one more thing, and. There was a G20 summit meeting on food prices. The 20 largest industrial economies gathered and this wound up on the weekend. They are still supporting food based biofuel production. Government subsidies for that which is a big factor in these spiking prices, especially of cereals and other cereal grains. 40% of the nations of this nation's corn crop went to ethanol, and Speaking of irregular weather, shall we say that's part of it too? All of this you can see you can see the dots connected. Oh yeah, oh got a lot of good stuff. And as Carl said 541346064. Another thing that happened last week, Kevin Kevin Tucker versus Allison Buss in Philadelphia was Wednesday or Thursday night. It got pretty crazy there. It could have been. It could have been a sober debate. Chris, you need two sides to have to have an interesting debate and there's. If it's a debate about what is radical and what should we be doing, what is what is? A perspective that's worth pursuing. That got pretty crazy. As I said there it just I think frustration rose for some people, certainly including Kevin. He wasn't getting any answers as to what. The syndicalist thing was or has been or should be or it was just he would, I guess on the East Coast. Well, I think on the West Coast the simplest would be the lunatic fringe. They seem to be acting like he is representing at ARCO primitivism there. There's a couple. Of things from. A long commentary that he wrote. Note, I'm not going to quote from the actual debate that he said. Because Kevin the goal of Sannicolas's Alexis presented it was to unionize all workers and let the workers speak and act how they feel fit. She acted as if anarchosyndicalist have no historic or contemporary vision of what that society might be. Despite the fact, and this the one little funny thing. She said that the end result wouldn't be industrialism, and implied that industrialism is not and has not been a central aspect of synical arguments worldviews. And he says that's just a lie. Plain and simple. It's just an outrageous lie. I mean, how could you make up something like that and pass? It off. I mean, it would be nice if she's right, but it's the definition of industrial industrialization that’s exactly what it's about. Oh, but really, we got it wrong. Were. Were not reading between the lines or something anyway and Kevin goes on later. He's talking about how we can. We can refer to our own lives to get a fix on what's going on and how badly it's going and what the direction of things is. He toward the end of this write up, he said, we live within a dying monster on a global scale. That monster has had many faces in many forms, but its central functions have always been the same. Capitalism is one of those faces, and industrialism is one of its forms. The history of civilization is countered by the domesticated. Fighting against those forms and faces as much as they could, sometimes failing, sometimes not. That happened, and actually Kevin is hoping for more debates. Possibly some of that might be more. More fruitful. And by the way, species trader is still on track and I hope we're getting to an actual deadline here. My book, future primitive revisited will be out next spring. Species Trader has to be out before then. Because you can take stuff from publications. And put them in a book, which is what? I always do, but you. Can't do it the other way around. If you do, then it's not really. It's not the best way to do it. Should we say? For obvious reasons, there was a story. There was a Reuters story last week. Yeah, from the. From the wire service somebody was commenting on the different kinds of uprising, the different resistance in the streets and so forth. That's been going on across North Africand in the. Middle East, it would be peace. I think it's. Hold something like do leaderless revolts contain the seeds of their own failure? I believe that's the title and argues that they can only go so far. You've got to have the. Usual respected official forms. You can't just. You can't just have this amorphous thing where you don't where you don't have leaders and structures around leaders you, because if you don't have that then.

Speaker 1: You can.

Speaker 2: Have a lot of disagreements and how would you. How would you really have control over? It and at the end of the article quoting. UM? Oh, quoting technical officer, Chief Chief Technical Officer of IT, security firm Imperva, and I think this in Libya in general. As a quote in general, not having a single leader makes an organization harder to track, but at the same time it reduces the ability to carry out. Complex operations. Well, to me that sort of fades into the thing. Of complex, it's a complex operation to run societies. In other words, if that's your goal, if you want. To take over state power and the other functions of a complex society, you probably do need a structure. You probably do need leadership. And hierarchy and. All the rest but, but that's the point. I mean is that the society you want to reproduce? I mean it, it does come back to one of those basic questions. I think that's the fundamental one you have to face that some point. Oh well, you don't have to. I mean, if you if your if your demands, your perspective is somewhat limited, then you might be fine with something along those along the road, but that doesn't really change society. To change society if you do want to change it then you do run up against. That sort of level of stuff of structural. What is society? How does it work? What is required to run it? And if you but if you don't want that society, then you look at it utterly differently. In other words, there's. No, it's not just some automatic seamless. Thing I mean. It's it just it you will run up against these questions insofar as the movement goes forward. And it is going forward. These things are maintaining themselves. It's month after month. It’s just quite impressive. Here's something that I found a little less impressive, and let me say no deep green resistance discussion tonight. What a relief. Although some people say there's been enough of that there's to do with it, but unless somebody calls about it, which is just fine, you can. You're certainly welcome to do that. Wait wait wait before I go too far in rolling out everything out. Today I read the brand new issue of Orion magazine. July, August Orion. With Derek Jensen's column, it's called upping the stakes and this column for this the scene comes and comes out of Massachusetts every two months. This culture is and they censored out the. Word, and you can. Guess what we don't say and why we don't say it. Well, it's making the point that there is censorship in terms of what we want to say, what we might be dreaming of, what, what we would like to have, and that self censorship is probably. Is probably the most insidious part of. It is probably the worst part. It's one thing to. Realize that surveillance is everywhere and there's a Patriot Act and they may be listening. They may be they may be more than listening at some point, and all that's fine. You know, that's fine. It’s sort of. It's a little bit cast against the right wing, and that's fine too, insofar as it goes. He mentions the Koch brothers Koch industry, which which funds corporate. The extension of corporate power and government power. But what happened here in this column I have to congratulate you, Derek, I have to. Say bravo you finally it looks like you've definitively reached your goal and that is you've washed out any trace of the critique of civilization, such as it was. It was against civilization and it was against industrial civilization and now guess what it's left with from the last three paragraphs. The. The main problem the main enemy. Is Corp is, well, corporate mediand a number of things, but it's capitalism, capitalist economy, capitalism, the stranglehold of capitalism, capitalism, capitalism and the industrial capitalist system. So 7 references to capitalism in the final three paragraphs. Yeah, nothing, nothing, nothing about civilization, so he's made. He's completed his trick into watering everything down and flushing it away if it has any unpleasant civilization aspect to it. Chomsky could have written this. It’s just so weak it's just. That he can. Sadly, he's continuing on this, and it's not just some blip that we're trying to make some noise about, it's just. It's unmistakable. Orion Magazine July August 2011. Check it out. Oh, and here's the little delicious part of it, and again, talking about self censorship. I'm reasonably sure that in many of these cases he's referred to if the writers didn't self censor, they'd probably lose their funding, their teaching jobs, or their book contracts. A bit of irony there, hunter. Yeah, you lose all that stuff you. Might have more. Liberals or progressives come into your talks. And weighed against the number of anarchists, I guess you compute that doesn't. That doesn't really matter to lose them. I guess you've already lost any anti authoritarian folks. Very regrettable and seemingly pretty unmistakable. Oh, we've got more. We got Action News. I'm going to talk about Casa Pound, which is a new radical right in Italy and I just found out about. I think that's worth talking about. And maybe maybe look at posev. Also have a deeper exploration. This a booklet by Usul of the Blackfoot. An awful have a chance to get way off into that, but maybe we could begin a discussion of what is positive as opposed to. Anarcho primitivism, we'll take a music break. And be right back. Somebody asked about the. New crime thing book called Work I'm. Not familiar with it, I haven't seen. It yet. I know they've unleashed a whole bunch of posters. And a lot of commentary about that. Well, let's do some action. News 5413460645 Earth Liberation Front of Russia claims responsibility for firebombing of the Lexus Toyota car dealership in western Moscow last Tuesday. June 21st, best wishes to Luciano. Also known as Tortuga. It's the Chilean guy. I think Chilean, who's bomb exploded prematurely and. And messed him up, but he has. Survived and I think he's. Out of this comma. So now this the solidarity action 4 luxury cars lost to a fire bomb explosion. Engineered by butane gas canisters, gasoline and a fuse according to corporate media reports alongside of their communique and there are some things last week that aren't they are not dated exactly, but this 1 from Buenos Aires. Argentina the Flores neighborhood. During the International Week for total liberation and that's nice news. And another week for total liberation. 2 ATM's were burned and with gasoline and incendiary device that then burned and destroyed and destroyed the thing more thoroughly. For the freedom of Walter Ball and Marie Mason and Eric McDavid. Sylvia, Billy and Constant Switzerland the war against the society continues in all places in Italy, France, Spain, Mexico, etc. Sometimes this a great little communique core, part of it sometime in mid June calendars. How do they? Work, their crew Evanich has rolled up and are usually calm. Strip mall in Calgary, AB. Once there they wasted no time in approaching the target of Royal Bank of Canada branch. They smashed out several windows, wrote thieves on the only remaining window. Sure, this was politically motivated. And the message was overtly political, but that's not really the point. The point is, you will not have your own power as a combative community until you put it into practice, which makes perfect. So they say smashing windows is surely not the road anarchy, but certainly is a very fun and effective gateway drug toward actual combat, which the very nature of civilization. Guarantees is inevitable, so get out there and do. Some smashing. Would spark an insurrection or maybe even cause your target that much trouble, that you and your friends will have a better idea of what approaching, attacking, and leaving an objective is like till next time friends Mark Twain and friends. Well, Train was antImperialist in the late 19th century here, but and maybe he went out at night and messed things up. I don't know. Chapel Hill Chapel Hill town council. Passed A6 month moratorium on all residential development in the Northside area. This was last Tuesday and this seems to be clearly a response to growing anti gentrification pressures. This Green Bridge area. In particular, years of actions and protests, including everything from media work to graffiti and broken windows, the Developers Office was taken over almost two weeks ago. Three people arrested last week. Several spray painted slogans. Yep, you go home anyway. They have made the town council. Crack down it seems. In the coastal village of Govindpur, india's eastern state of Orissa. There had been a strong effort, including around the clock, human barricade of mostly women and children their they have had to face the cops. This they're trying to stop a $12 billion steel plant. Which is which would occupy on this 4000 acres? The rest I mean a lot of forest land of 613 families would be displaced, so they've been fighting that protest of more than 2000. This late last week, I think. The villagers strongly engaged. And hanging in there last Wednesday. The Rio Gallegos police headquarters in. And Argentina, I don't know if that's a town or part of Buenos Aires, quite frankly. But the police headquarters there was set on fire. Weeks ago, a local government office was also torched. This a struggle. Yeah, this happened and there were no injuries by the way. Damage was extensive. I think this has to do with oil drilling and doesn't totally make it clear, but they've been. This another ongoing thing. They were trying to prevent the blaze from spreading to the premises of the presidential palace next door. Well, I guess this would be. I guess this would be where there is brought to. Which is by the war on Society blog. You don't need. You don't need a reason to take government buildings. Or police headquarters. OK, last Wednesday 200 signs were removed. This in Vic. Up there in. What is this anyway? Help Victoria like Wingham territories in what is now called British Columbia? The group altered signs and removed signs declaring private property, no camping, etc. And in some places they were replaced by signs saying public space, respect, justice. Compassionate community stopped the criminalization of power. Pasted over the old signs, the private property signs specifically targeted people who were living in poverty and trying to survive on the streets that an unnamed group member leading direct Action Group is called Operation Public Space Victoria. Well, there's been a lot about hacking. Including an arrest on Thursday of 19 year old Ryan Cleary in London and this has to do with the group Lu LZ SEC Lowell security. Which started out. I think I might have said this lesson started out as part of anonymous. And by the way, the Ponemon Institute is the New York Times piece. Last Friday, very brief said that these security breaches the hacking. Are occurring much more often than than publicized. In fact, Lu LZ security announced over the weekend that they were disbanding, but not giving it up. They're just dissolving as an organization. Because they've been successful in drawing a lot of heat so that site and that official thing, so to speak. Is is disappearing? Yeah, all kinds of all kinds of breaches breached Arizona comp thing. All over the place they just get in there and then publicize what they're doing. Open it up.

Speaker 1: My favorite was the e-mail addresses of the **** site.

Speaker 2: Oh really, what is that?

Speaker 1: Oh, is this some **** site they hacked into and they especially pointed out all the government addresses? And now this that.

Speaker 2: Well, I see the customers among the government people.

Speaker 1: We're in there, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent.

Speaker 1: Lots of dot nails dot. Like dot military addresses.

Speaker 2: I see. Yeah, how did they feel to be spied? Once in a while. Yeah, that's flourishing that the hacktivism thing is becoming a real thread in Nottingham in the good old UK last Thursday night prison guard was beaten and two prison vehicles were trashed. Remember the story about the prison guards complaining they don't get no respect? Now it's even worse evidently. And in Peru on Friday this. This has a definitely sad aspect to put him. Only three were killed as anti mine folks clashed with riot police. They tried to occupy an airport. This in Southeast Peru 1000. Mostly Omora Indians, which have been against mining. And back in May they blockaded the main Peru, Bolivia highway for three weeks. The battle is ongoing. And this was reported Saturday from the. Of what every Friday for six years now. Israeli anarchists and solidarity with Palestinians and then some other international people who are because of whatever they are anyway. They are not having their trademark weekly demonstrations, but one thing that happened they have. This the first tangible result. How many they forced the removal of part of the apartheid fence? At the village of Bilin and forced the land to be handed back. This was like a two mile section. It returned about 150 acres of village land in Berlin. This not a gigantic victory, but it's a concrete. It's a specific thing, Mohammed Khatib, a local Palestinian, said, even with the new routing on, all our land will be returned, but without popular resistance, none of this would have happened. It was reported Saturday the 25th. And here's some upcoming stuff starting Friday. Pelican Bay State Prison in California it's way north in California. You can breakthrough rock in Oregon from Pelican Bay. They're starting a hunger strike. Pelican Bay is truly notorious. If you heard much about prisons. California is very very rough in Pelican Bay. The roughest 1 Cochran may be second to people mutilating themselves going crazy just and they're talking about people in the shoe and security housing unit. This this as bad as it gets is so in fact this will be the third major hunger strike in the US prison in the past. Year they're starting. An indefinite hunger strike. On Friday the 1st, the 50 to 100 and they're. Hoping for solidarity is the call out for any and all courageous and creative actions. Be creative, do whatever you can do thing to back them up on July 16th. This a Saturday. There is going to be anarchist General Assembly in Oakland in the. East Bay, San Francisco Bay called by unconventional action in the Bay, usually known as just UAUA in the Bay. Quite a bit of discussion there. They're trying to do something there. There is one little thing that I noticed here that detracts a little from my Glee. My hopefulness this going to be held. At the Niebyl Proctor Marxist Library, Oh dear, and then it's it says yeah, we know and Prince, yeah, . But what thell? What's what's up with that? And then they have a BBQ. No, I wish them well, I bet there'll be a lot of people. And let's see on the 17th in Baltimore and next day Marine Bay Marie Mason benefit in Baltimore. I don't have all the details, but I know Peregrine is playing and I think Kevin Tucker will be speaking. Let's see what else the trial. Of Sylvia Guerin, Constantino Ragusand Luca Billy Berlusconi will be held in Switzerland on the 19th, 20th and 22nd of July. These are three green anarchy types accused of planning an incendiary attack against an IBM Nanotechnology Research Center under construction and possession of explosives. Register your solidarity and complicity. With the accused and shows a wolf howling, Marcos, Sylvia Costas, Billy Free now. On July 23rd, 24th. Maybe I'm getting too far afield here, but the Portland anarchist bookfair happens that weekend at Portland State. And also that weekend little more than a weekend a little bit before and after the weekend of the 23rd 24th at Oregon State University in Corvallis, OR philosophy and contemporary. World Conference will be held. That's the name of the conference. Michael Becker and myself will be part of that. Oh, and one other thing. Maybe if you're in the Moscow region the 28th of July, there's going to be an ecological camp called Kimki 2011, Speaking of another. Steadfast, if we're to preserve the forest. Stop another highway from being built. They've been trying to protect the forests of the Moscow. Region with quite a lot of support. And the. The government and. Corporations are threatening other forests in the in some other regions in Russia, so this fight is involving more. And one other announcements. Get your organic vegetable starts from critter warm and cuddly ex eco anarchist ecoterrorist. I mean ex prisoner and an ex anarchist. And anyway organic vegetable. Plants and get this weekend. So going over there to Van Buren, Van Buren and 8th near New Frontier market here in Eugene. While you stay get stuff left, not just tomato paste. All right? Oh, time is. Taking Tik T.O.K 5413460645. Well, well, here's Here's one more sickle. Take note thing and we can talk about post sales maybe. This there is a. There's some radio. Program or series called Dangerous Minds and these are singularity enthusiasts. And there's a film coming out of that general thing called turning into gods. You know, when we fuse with technology, then we'll turn the corner. This the transhumanist craziness. The movement to the machines but dangerous minds. And but the name of the film turning into gods. I just Adam sent me this. Yeah, there’s a pilot produced by Bill Maher for HBR. Anyway, there’s a lot of money behind this, and there are people desperate enough, or whatever. Enough to believe that's the right direction. Like the sense Droid or the cyber French kiss. It's got to be the way to go. It's going to be the right. Direction for humanness. And here's here's something. Yeah, this. Is a study that was in last week's issue of the journal Nature last Thursday study done in Germany? Published in the American. Journal Nature it shows that people living in cities. Have a higher. Risk of schizophrenia? How about that? In the big urban center it can be bad for your mental health. Gee, I would have guessed that one. And Neil Durkheim, in the 19th century, studied the new big Industrial cities and. And talked about the incidence of madness and suicide. So this this comes 150 years later and we need a big study to. To point out what? What Duke I'm found, we're probably not a whole lot of trouble determining that. Oh, gosh, and then we can just see we got tons of stuff there. There's so much on the in the area of. Renewable energy and how much new resistance there is. It very interesting thing in itself, but maybe just a word. Maybe somebody will want to jump in. I mentioned this booklet posted of a deeper exploration by Osula the Blackfoot. This the. It's a non primitivist take on the point is we can't go back but somehow we can be post civilization and that I don't quite. I don't quite follow that exactly, but part of it is and part of it. Has to do. In terms of not going back, they have. They talk about pre domesticated pre civilized societies in a very it says. Well, that they were largely egalitarian. They say most or all tribal cultures are inherently egalitariand non oppressive. Well, maybe a little more accurate to say most or all tribal societies, but then they changed that a little bit later, and I'm trying to do a little synopsis here that. The primitive societies, let's face it, are pretty oppressive. They're they're not so cool, and part of this comes from a reading of. War before civilization by Keeley. When is his first name? Lawrence Keeley? And The upshot of this that the vast majority of primitive societies were frequently conduct war and charge with great brutality, show little compassion and sparing non combatants and are often devastated or destroyed by the effects of war. Well, I haven't read that book in a while, but the key thing the slippery thing here is primitive societies. That's a very loose term, It’s really. There's no precision there. The question is, or a question is domesticated, societies or not, and they're in fact in the Kiwi book. He glides over this, but if you run down the sources. The sources he provides you find that primitive societies. Which he cites to make the case for how much war there was are all domesticated. I don't know if there's there, I don't know. There may be one or two I don't remember, but. Pretty much none of the primitive societies are of the non domesticated ones. In other words, that's the watershed. So very very often and I think Keeley is probably aware of that, but so he uses a slipperier term primitive societies. And yeah, and then some of you, some of you are well aware of this. You get human sacrifice, you get genital mutilation, you get heat drinking, you get on and on, but not before domestication. This an obvious point. So that if they're relying on that to bolster their the fact that they are, they're skeptical. Well, primitive society. They're skeptical by implication of having something like banned society, I guess I mean. They're very anti. All civilizations from their foundation are destructive, oppressive and unsustainable. Civilization is undesirable anyway. We might. We might pick this up more in the future. This has been around for a while and thank you CD for setting this down. It would be good to pursue this there. There are different takes on this. There are different takes. On what it means to be anti civilization? I mean there's the take that if you look at if you look at primitive society for some guidance or inspiration and wilfie land strike, for example, argues that if you do that, you are taking away from the subjectivity of people, in other words. What we should be drawing on and he seems to be saying what we should be drawing on totally is our own frustration and our own desire for free society. In other words, it detracts from that from that radical subjectivity to be talking about how people used to live in the past. I don't know why that is. Frankly, but that's one argument for being for adopting a non primitivist at the same point of view. So there are different ways to look at this. This maybe just a word on this. I found this interesting just today and I wanted to talk about health and a number of other things. Get to it next week or would might be even better is if there's a guest like Max maybe. And we won't get to. It, but hey, this an interesting thing. Something I'll Casa pound. Which means pound house occurs. As the new radical right in Italy. And there are some very slippery there or. Ways to peddle Neo fascist stuff. We've seen some of that in the US, much more slick. No, it doesn't come across as so brutal and racist. For example. For example, this article get this from libcom. Everyone's favorite libertarian commie.

Speaker 1: Side yeah, look at it.

Speaker 2: It starts out. You'd be forgiven for thinking that a group of Zine, publishing, techie, techie squatters into rock music baiting the state and defending the working class or part of the anarchist left. That writes the Moylette project, Italy's coza pound movement is symptomatic of the radical rights. Growing ability to assimilate progressive agenda into a toxic and populist political brew, and they talk about community. They've got. They've got some very heavy music and they don't look like ones image of. Of fascists don't look like mine in Germany anyway, not today I've been into. I've been to Italy a few times and one sees different kinds of fascists. But this the thing that.. Gets into people that are that are non conformist and tries to appeal. In a different way, and apparently with some success. They this an interesting thing and they pull from all sorts of people. Ezra Pound obviously was the American. Poet who became a fascist sympathizer, gave radio addresses in favor of Mussolini. For example, but JRR Tolkien is cited others that are more obviously from from the right historically. The range of intellectual influences also includes the recuperation of figures traditionally associated with left wing culture, with the most obvious example as tendency being in appropriation of the work of Che Guevara. Yeah, the work of Che Guevara. I wonder what work that is like shooting people that give you the regime anyway. All of this set against an ideological backdrop which is rife with anti capitalist and anti statist tendencies or rhetoric. They refuse, they are opposed to neoliberal worldviews, and they defend workers rights within the nationalist framework within a traditional family framework, so that some of these things are tied to. The historical fascist right in Italy. For example Colon Quay, which died out many years ago. Colon Quay went something like the common mand that was the OR the OR the. Social movement of Italy, and as I which is really a link to Mussolini and to the to the actual fascist regime. So this what they can come up with and try to peddle it in as in a a slicker way and bend the rhetoric to appeal to youth and others who are disabled. With the normal it's the. Same well, I don't know what's up next week, Andrew.

Speaker 1: Max here.

Speaker 2: Maybe next we'll see we'll carry on and that would be after the 4th of July, so have a good time. We'll be back we're going out with some cannonball analea. I guess it is, take care.

06-21-2011

[audio]

Kathan on the show. Ocean life collapsing. DGR debate, part 4. Vancouver hockey riot. Food from poop! Shootings, ads of the week, action news. One call.

06-14-2011

[audio]

(Only a 30-minute broadcast because of a KWVA scheduling foul-up.) Anarchy Finland! Police State USA! Japan! Another DGR critique and a good call about this phenomenon. Action news!

06-07-2011

[audio]

There's an app for that. E.coli and super bacterial strains. Mega-dams everywhere. The Kalapuya in Oregon. Deep Green Resistance and actual resistance. Calls and MEEBOs.

05-31-2011

[audio]

Carcinogenic cell phones. E. Coli outbreaks getting more severe. Indigenous news from C.B. in Victoria, B.C. Critiques of Deep Green Resistance. Actual resistance spreading, action news. Jonathan Franzen: technology vs. love. Two calls, MEEBOs.

05-24-2011

[audio]

Cliff present. More crazed weather. Kevin Kelly defends tech desolation. Deep Green Resistance follies. Action news. Caroline Wickham-Jones, Amondawa language has no use for time. 2 calls plus MEEBOs.

Speaker 1: We just tuned in. You're listening to dirt mobile radio on kwva, Eugene. If Connor Jay Sullivan here local DJ the live scratch session if you want to see any of. These videos. From live in the studio check. Them out on YouTube. They'll be up probably by tomorrow morning listening to Dermota radio with Mark Hoskin. This kva Eugene. That was local DJ Connor J Sullivan. He catch him on his upcoming Northwest Tour with Medium Choy or at the WOW Hall June 3rd. This Ben Dirt Mopper radio on KWB AG. I'm mark. Roskin TuneIn next week Tuesday. Wednesday 6:30 to 7:00 you want to hear a live? Archive for this show? Please go to www.thedirtmopper.com. You can find me on Facebook. At dirt Mopper or Twitter at the dirt mopper, stay tuned for left out with frogs the next half hour you're listening to K dot.

Speaker 2: No, don't TuneIn for flog this next half hour. This anarchy radio going on this hour. And we've got Cliff in the studio today. With us, we're going to have a ball. We're first. We're going to listen to some music this. Song is called. Fembot you're listening to anarchy. Radio and KWV a Eugene.

Speaker 4: It's 2000.

Speaker 3: You ready?

Speaker 5: May 24th in time for anarchy video Hello. Cliff hello John. Thanks for being.

Speaker 6: Here yeah, good to be here.

Speaker 5: We got a lot of tasty things. Here, by the way, 5413460645. Do give us a call. Don't wait until 5 minutes to the hour. Just go ahead and do it me bowl wise. You know about Meebo, you can just. If you're streaming you can see it, but if you go to kwvaradio.org and get the web page. It'll tell you how to. Do it just one thing,, we got. I think we got a record number of Meebo messages on the board last week.

Speaker 2: Yeah were meeboer like crazy. People were meowing theck out of.

Speaker 5: Even though Catholic expressed a little, she was down for years, she thought.

Speaker 2: She was doubtful.

Speaker 5: How do we become more mediated? But anyway, we don't think about those things . We just say alone.

UNKNOWN: Go on.

Speaker 5: Just one thing though, I wanted to mention it's better not to me blow a whole long. Thing is, if it's a chat board because we're in the middle of stuff and it's hard. To stop and read a whole thing while you're trying to do. A live show.

Speaker 2: Yeah, if you got a lot to say please.

Speaker 5: Forget about that guy right?

Speaker 2: Call please call in.

Speaker 5: That would be an option. Yeah, whatever you want to do, but short and succinct ones are probably the best.

Speaker 2: You're welcome.

Speaker 5: They're welcome neighbor wise. Well, when things become intolerable, it seems to some people like it's the end of the world. That's probably what that's about. But Reverend the reverend. Something and I guess he misjudged the his calculation or something, huh?

Speaker 6: It is recalculated. Now it's like GPS, huh?

Speaker 5: I mean G stands for God. In this case, I suppose, so it'll be October when it all ends. You know Dan Todd made an interesting point about the Millerites. If you have any notion of that 1844, one of your biggies in terms of end of the world. The Miller rights became the 7th Day Adventists and Dan was brought up in the 7th Day Adventist Church. And he said this a really good point. He said it in a way. It was the end of the world. It was the end of the non industrial Society in America. It really right around that time was the point of no return. You might say, and the same and maybe we have similar pressures. Maybe we're getting now to where? It's becoming so technified it that is moving so. So quickly and so invasive and the whole thing. Maybe it's somehow registering. I don't know, does that make? Sense at all. I don't think so, but. Yeah, it just seems like there’s a metaphor there, maybe. Well, what about the weather? I think as we speak there are scores of tornadoes in Oklahoma following the big Joplin. Make a tornado on Sunday. And I think it's starting to occur to people, even the flatter. There's no global warming people. It's not caused by the fact that the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter, which it is. It has something to do with hurricanes too. But yeah, that seems to be what it is about other. Changes, . Once again, the increasingly volatile extremes of weather just really lining up to point to that there may be in the Northern Rockies. They're now saying there may be really gigantic floods there. Coming on, I don't know well. Anyway in Iraq things are going anywhere in Iraq makes you wonder if the Obama regime is going to renege on the calling. All the last U.S. troops out by the end of the year I just took a bad feeling about that, but from to. Baghdad and other places. What kinds of attacks and one more report about the morale? Among American forces in Afghanistan, grim stuff just really. Morale highest rates of mental health problems in five years this was announced. I think it was Friday.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 5: Another big one, and. Well, we'll get to all kinds of stuff, but maybe two, and here's another weather deal. This was on the front page of the New York Times, yesterday, Chicago. Is preparing because they're not among the Flat Earth people, but the managers of. Our second biggest city. They're getting ready for when Chicago feels like Baton Rouge or Birmingham. The weather steamier future Chicago anyway? Yeah, they’re. They're facing up to that. OK, one thing that isn't quite so depressing here. Get this just today. This news to me. I'm not familiar with this writer. Just throw this in here. Caroline Wickham Jones Wickham Dash Jones. A British writer, she wrote a book called Fear of Farming. Sounds like not keen on domestication.

Speaker 6: Right?

Speaker 5: There was a piece in the Guardian. This was last Thursday. No, it wasn't. I don't know the date on this, but. Her she's an archaeologist. This chief coined the term deep archaeology as opposed to deep technology, and she's put she's another person who's really zeroed in the not only the way we live is not sustainable, but what started. It on the wrong. Course it was agriculture in Britain 6000 years ago. And she's talking about the long term implications. Again, Carolyn Wickham Jones. If you want to see her work, all of this stuff. You know climate change, resource depletion, food scares, they're all symptoms as she points out that she says over time, we have seen that economies of scale can be fake economies. Increasing specialization can be a loss of wisdom. Industry can reduce ability to gets right. To the. The way it works and the driving of population. We began to develop the power of control, so we learned what it was like to lose control. These, the psychological part of it too, even. Anyway, it's good to.

Speaker 6: See this and you get the name of that article.

Speaker 5: Well, one article is called what we can learn from our hunter gatherer ancestors, and the title itself is worthy. With world Yeah, for example, the introduction of sheep in Britain. Brought into the more sustainable hunter gatherer. Way of life she's not afraid to point it out. And so, by the way, she said she's colored, and genocide is too.

Speaker 6: All right?

Speaker 5: I don't know if she's any anarchist, but you can. You can wear that and be. Proud I guess. So hey, you were going to talk about.

Speaker 6: Yeah I got something here. Littering corner. Kevin Kelly. We're here Kevin Kelly and this book that he published last year called what Technology wants, and I know we've talked about it on the show before. I think I called in after I went and saw him speak in Portland at the Aladdin Theater, and yeah, that was pretty much preaching. To the choir. Over there, so I picked up this audio book and listened to it on my commute and So what? What's surprising about it to me is he does acknowledge problems with being dependent upon technology. I guess it's not that surprising he's done that in the past before, but. In this book he views it all as a challenge. You know we must overcome if we're going to survive and quote UN quote, better ourselves as a species species, which is basically, we're going to better ourselves by developing technology.

UNKNOWN: Something makes.

Speaker 2: It matter to you on that.

Speaker 6: I've got a couple of paragraphs I want to read from it that I think get right to the point and just two main points. I want to make. Should I do that or should we? We have a call coming through.

Speaker 5: Well, maybe.

Speaker 2: I think we do have. A quick call here from Skeeter.

Speaker 6: That's fine, go go ahead speaker. Hello, are you there?

Speaker 7: Hey John hi Peter.

Speaker 5: Yeah, how's it going?

Speaker 7: Hi, how are you? I just wanted to remind you again about that book by Daniel Quinn. The story of be where the so-called Antichrist who is actually thero and heroine of the story is reminding lots and lots of people who are willing to listen.

Speaker 2: I'm good, go ahead man.

Speaker 7: That so-called civilizations downfall began. Was agriculture and people going from primitivist hunter gatherer? People than lands and tribes to starting to acquire material wealth and act, surplus food and how that really exponentially grew. The population which is doubling in half the time over more and more anyway. I just wanted to remind you and listeners that is another very, very good backgrounder on how we messed up.

Speaker 5: Thanks very much, yeah.

Speaker 7: Thank you John, yeah.

Speaker 5: Very timely, appreciate the call Skeeter.

Speaker 7: Yeah, take care.

Speaker 6: All right, so I was just going to make two points on Kevin Kelly's what technology. It's a fairly long book and I think It’s long winded in sections but. So what technology wants? I think where he comes down as saying technology wants to be free and we want the freedoms and choices that technology provides. So one example he uses to showcase how millions have flocked to technological civilization is. Is pretty well laid out in these next two paragraphs I'm going.

Speaker 3: I want to.

Speaker 6: Bring up because I think they get. Right to theart of the book. So this from his book. Truly there is no. There is nothing as disturbing as the site of indigenous tribesmen saying Amazon Basin or in the jungles of. Borneo or Papua? New Guinea wielding chainsaws to fill their own forests when your forest home is toppled, you're pushed into camps, then towns, and then. Cities once in a camp, cut off from your hunter gatherer skills. It makes a weird sense to take the only paid job around which is cutting down your neighbors forest. Clear cutting virgin forest counts as cultural insanity for a number of reasons. Not least that the tribal people ousted by this habitat destruction cannot go back. Within a generation or two of exile, they can use key survival knowledge which would prevent their descendants from returning even if their homeland were to be. Their exit is an involuntary one way trip, in the same way the despicable treatment of indigenous tribes by American white settlers really did force them into settlements and the adoption of new technologies. They were in. No hurry to use, so he does acknowledge well this happens OK, but then of course there's. But what comes in, however, so his next paragraph is, however, clear cutting is technologically unnecessary. Habitat destruction of any type is deplorable and stupidly low. But also not responsible for the majority of migrations. Deforestation is a minor push compared to the tractor beam, like pull of the flickering lights that have brought 2.5 billion people into the cities in the last 60 years. Today, as in the past, most of the mass movement toward cities, the hundreds of 1,000,000 per decade. Is led by set of people willing to pay the price of inconvenience and grime living in a slum in order to gain opportunities and freedom in the form of into the city for the same reason, the rich moved into the technological future to head towards possibilities and increased freedoms. So that's where that's how he sweeps a lot of stuff under the rug. You know he's got quite a huge rug because there's a lot of resistance and he's he's. He's almost rubber stamping like genocide by those producing technology. As long as that. Produce technology is able to make our lives quote UN quote better, so he writes. And in another section, he writes that as long as there are good benefits and he doesn't really define good other than it gives us more opportunities to dabble with technology or be creative with. Analogy, so as long as the good benefits of technology are above 50% and less of less than 50% have bad effects and the net benefit of humanity to humanity is good and will compound and grow better as time goes on, it's really pretty bizarre and I think he's making. He's like updating. The philosophy of utilitarianism, which is like if 10 million people die because 5 million people want to pursue technology and all the quote UN quote freedoms and benefits that come. With it so be it. That's pretty much his attitude. And yeah, he writes a lot about how technology expands humanity, and I clearly recall him saying at the presentation and. In Portland, that was where's the quote? This exactly how I remember really stuck out. The more technological we become, the more human we become. And I thought. Immediately when he said that the unspoken flip side of that is the less defined by technology, we are, the less human we are, and so you can use that. And it's a really effective way to sum up all the atrocities committed by the civilizers over thousands of years. And the fact that. Selling various technology and utilitarianism isn't really a big shock. I remember Michael Becker has a great footnote in that Green Scare essay he wrote about John Stuart Mill. And how Jon Stewart meal is one of the most popular utilitarianism and he has this essay on nature which is just completely dismissive and negative about nature and how terrible it is and that we should protect ourselves from it. And so it really makes sense that Kelly is following that. Mine and just extending it application of utilitarianism to technology and civilization. This stuff. So I always think of Nietzsche and his potshots on mill as being a blockhead and his blind pursuit of happiness is like a psychotic view of life that. Neglects any feelings of vitality or taking any challenges or learning anything. Quote UN quote difficult. So I think in the end what Kelly is really getting at with what technology wants is that it's going to. This my interpretation of what he's going for. Is that it's going to provide a whole bunch of different poisons for us, and we just have to pick which one we want to take and get it over with. And that’s my take on.

Speaker 5: Oh nice fun guy.

Speaker 6: Kevin Kelly is with technology block.

Speaker 5: Oh wow, well, I guess these days you're loath to leave out the dark side. You can't really get away with it, but then you can't get away with bringing it into the equation either.

Speaker 6: Yeah you can.

Speaker 5: But yeah, what's the terrible cost of this? Exactly as you.

Speaker 6: Say to him.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 6: The I guess the cost is less than like he says, as long as it's 50% or higher. Good benefits than the bad stuff. We can just deal with and it'll get better as time goes on as we work out the kinks of this technological civilization being done.

Speaker 5: It always keeps getting better. We see that. Well, I was noticing and if anybody is familiar with this book I'm not. I just saw a review of it. Speaking of what? What sort of haunts? These people? A little bit in the in the sense of Michael Becker. The green scare? He didn't mean the prosecutions. He means the specter of. Critique of a total alternative point of view. It's,, it's a novel called American Subversive by David Goodwillie. It's structured as a. Split memoir chapters alternate between a media Blogger and a young ecoterrorist young Ecoterrorist woman. It's announced as a quick paced literary thriller which explores the motives behind radicalism in an age of disillusion. So it's still around. It's it hasn't been banned. You know it. It pops up, It’s there. It's articulated by some. Well, I can't wait to get to something juicy and really just see I don't know. Were kidding around. We don't want to block everything out by susany stuff here, but hey, any stuff is. With the programs about anyway, anyway there is this, I believe this brand new. We have mentioned the deep green resistance. Orientation of Leah Keith and Derek Jensen and their friends. Well, now there's a web page, a website, and it's just called deep green resistance and. As Kevin Tucker said, not Kevin Kelly. Not Kevin Tucker It's way worse than we made it sound and they looking it over. It's a full blown thing. It's got the. Whole outlook with an FAQ frequently asked questions and all kinds of stuff. There's always categories, always different to. Parts different pages it's. Well, and one of the things that strikes you right away is. And this the serious. This the actual resistance we've been waiting for it. The other stuff has been adolescent, and the ill conceived, and everything else. But so you go to DGR, start an action. Well, the first thing you get is there's a number of documents and things that you need to. Adhere to sign off on a statement of principles of Code of Conduct, and then the whole thing just is well, for one thing, just is almost as superficially, although it isn't. If you're talking about security being serious. There are people who are in prison. There are people who risk their freedom to. To actually engage in action. I think probably the first thing you would not want to do is sign your name to some document that you are. You know what is the point of that? I mean, that's and not to mention the whole command structure motif of. Of all these different things, you need to read this and then reread it and.

Speaker 6: I really I took a look at this and my initial thought was it really sounds like a corporation that you're trying to become a franchisee. With right so. You submit all the necessary paperwork and adhere to all their bylaws and then you can start your own DGR franchise out there with the blessing of DGR incorporated right.

Speaker 5: And only with the blessing you don't. You can't, and naturally there'll be no criticism.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I saw that too. Any kind 00 tolerance policy for abuse? Emotional physical. So yeah, you can read that as don't give us any negative feedback. Otherwise you're against the cause, right?

Speaker 5: The loyalty part yeah.

Speaker 6: That would look your franchisee ship. And yeah there's something else. Oh, last week on the show you had something from. Guy from the Alf who had this quote about you don't join the Alf. You become the Alf and so this the exact opposite of that.

Speaker 5: Right?

Speaker 6: You don't become the DGR, you join it by signing up and filling out the requisite paperwork. And agreeing to their. Structured principles and code of conduct, and.

Speaker 5: Yeah, It’s quite. It's quite scary and yeah, you're not an army of one. You are just a cog and you've subscribed all this and memorized the documents and have your. Cleaning pill ready or I threw that in. You know this already blown up in a way, perhaps blown up in their faces. I don't know, pardon the pun, but Derek Jensen has responded. And I think this was today as a matter of fact, a very long message to his followers. And at the end, this from their network, the Derek Jensen network. I don't know presently what that's called, but and then at the. End it's this. Is a long thing and I'm certainly not going to dwell. On it too much. But at the end it says he says to people who were the vetted, the people that pass through the screens and the moderators. And are part of this thing that this statement no part of it can be used without his permission. So,, oh. I guess I'm gonna using that provision, but his gated community has got a number of, shall we say entries and exits that to even now he doesn't seem. To know but. Well, yeah, so he's he's. Upset because people are making fun of it. Several people, I guess emailed. And they took him up on checking it out, but with the some rude comments lampooning going on and stuff. So he was upset about that. He says, well, in this sort of screed. He says he's not against hierarchy, which is maybe he wouldn't want everybody to know that, but oh, maybe.

Speaker 6: He wouldn't care. Heard him say it and that talks, yeah, notice you could, right?

Speaker 5: Well, I want to get right to the one point that connects the dots a little bit with not just with this but one or two other related things. Is that he says and Kevin commented on this at that very in a very apposite way that anarcho primitivism is racist. This a new deal. And as Kevin put it, that might mean that the term primitive from which primitivism obviously comes from is a pejorative, is a racist pejorative. It might. That's a guess. You know. I'm not sure he doesn't say at all why he thinks it's racist, but that would be one possibility. So then. If primitivist is a racist term, so is civilization, and the point is primitivism opposes civilization, so that's it's obvious. But in other words, if you say, well, we're all supposed to be civilized. We are not supposed to be primitive. Well, that's exactly what we're trying to get it. Get over, isn't it?

Speaker 3: Right?

Speaker 5: There's no. Around it you've you're valorizing, the one term that isn't valorized . And rejecting the one that. Is, that's the whole. That's the game, that's the. Entire deal so. But I don't. I have no idea what other possible meaning it could have to say it's racist, I don't. Know what? Just let us know.

Speaker 6: I have heard I've heard of that argument before. I think a lot of it had to do with the this go light. You remember this? This was a. Seeing, I guess that Kevin was distributing through parenting based on indigenous culture.

Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

Speaker 6: But there aren't so many indigenous white cultures around anymore, so all of them are people of color, and so you're calling them primitive or savage. And they're saying these are, terms that are racist and derogatory, but I guess that's the way you want to read those terms, but in the in the tradition of anarcho primitivism if. You want to. Call it that. Those terms are celebrated right precisely so.

Speaker 5: And who doesn't know that? I mean, you can disagree with that, but that’s entirely the point. It's not a negative thing, so therefore it's not putting down people who are primitive, it's just the other. Way around, right? Well, I guess we better take a break and so please 5413460645 or you can Bebo you can jump. In on this.

Speaker 3: Days come. You. That never. I should much. There's no one can be with gloom everywhere. I know that a soon go. Send back

Speaker 2: All right, we're back. It's anarchy radio 5413460645 we just heard from Michael on Niebo. He says he's on tour in Florida. People in every city are not happy at all with this new stuff. We'll have to say by Jensen, he says Chairman Jensen's Little Green Book is doing what we knew it would.

Speaker 5: I think we might have the. Got a message from a friend of mine in Moscow. I guess we got a call. We'll just hold on to this. Continuing on theme of anarcho primitivism and it's different interpretation.

Speaker 2: We have Michael from Meebo.

Speaker 6: We lost him.

UNKNOWN: Now I guess.

Speaker 5: We got his message.

Speaker 3: That's it.

Speaker 5: We gotta move on. OK, yeah, friend there. Had made contact with our good old friend. Scout from Portland, and. He's I don't know how they made contact but Grisha. I mentioned his first name anyway. This person in Russiasked him about anarcho, primitivism and urban scout, who's a firm, and he's a good old DGR. Very loyal to Derek. He's in preference to that, he said it's I think it's the worst of two fundamentalist groups, anarchists and primitivists put together. Oh oh, and they don't know anything about Indigenous people. They don't have any, they don't have any touch with anthropology. Chris, he doesn't. Bring up a single instance of why that would be true or valid to say that these these principles never do. Anyway, that's around the world in terms of Anarcho, primitivism and just.

Speaker 6: Go ahead, no go ahead.

Speaker 5: Well, in terms of the frequently asked questions on the deep green resistance, there's quite a number of them, and they flesh out where they come from and one of them I think it's the third one. The question is, you can't force people to change what we really need is a paradigm. Shift and honestly, if it modestly I think that might be aimed at me because I frequently wind up talks with a call for that very thing that there's got to be a paradigm shift, and maybe it's in the works. And our own different vision. Is is a part of it? You know is the. Do people not get it at all? Or are they already? Getting where we're getting to, but don't see any alternative. Well, that's a whole that's a whole thing but I wonder if. Doesn't happen where that puts us anyway. Derek answers this question and he trashes the idea of paradigm shift. And if somebody has a different reading of this, please feel free to offer it, because I'm just stumped by this as I read it, it goes through. And goes through Koon and a number of different people in terms of what a paradigm shift is and what I get out of this that people are pigs. They want to get rid of all the salmon. They're no good. They're never going to be any good. So forget about your pipe dream of a paradigm. Shift and so OK, that's one position. But then if that's so, where does that leave deep green resistance? I mean I, I don't follow, if it's hopeless, what are you gonna do about that? And you could bring something down. And if people are too conditioned and destructive to think otherwise, they're going to want it, right? Back up again. You can burn it up or whatever, but they've got to be some orientation shift that seems to me.

Speaker 6: Yeah, sometimes it seems like I think we've maybe talked about that or I heard it somewhere that. Eric tends to talk more about the positive things we should be doing for. Salmon rather than for people, and it's almost like he has a negative pessimistic view of human nature to begin with. If that's where this why he's rejecting the paradigm shift and. Or the idea of a paradigm shift, like it won't come because people are incapable of it or the majority. Of people are incapable. Of it, I don't know. But you have to believe somehow that they are capable of change otherwise. And yeah, exactly the deep green resistance isn't going to spread well.

Speaker 5: That makes sense to me, and I think in. Terms of. Anarchy in terms of being anarchist, that's a that's a founding myth. That's a. That's an assumption that people, fundamentally Or OK, they behave badly because of institutions they're corrupted by the by the movement of estrangement in terms of institutions. But if you think that they're no good from the get, go like Christians from something like that, then yeah, then you're left with. It seems to me you're left with why bother? Yeah, what's what's the point of doing anything?

Speaker 6: That's yeah, that's where the Hobbes comes from. With Leviathand all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Well, maybe I should. So we don't. Forego just some quick the usual sampling of action stuff, see, this was Sunday about 9 days ago. There was an attack near Bern, Switzerland. This has been visited before the. Alpac Corporation nuclear company. In Switzerland is the Sunday night to Sunday before last trashed again. And let's see what else the. Oh, this has to do with this the. Monday last Monday Yeah, in downtown Seattle intersection was blocked at a Goldman Sachs office during rush hour and the message in part was this. This brief act in the normal movement of city traffic was a small gesture committed out of hatred for this world. From the first sparks of rebellion, we conspire because the only reason to live is for a dream of what is not. We are with you, not out of pity or duty, but because solidarity is our weapon and they’re talking about solidarity with. With various people, including imprisoned Greeks, and there was a very interesting post at propo, this little report?, somebody. Yeah, from anarchist NEWS CENTER, the northwest has seen a blank ton of above ground anarchist activity. Right now it's almost scary. There have been three general assemblies held in Seattle that were open to anyone with the primary purpose of encouraging action and bonds and so forth, so that's Nice to hear. And let's see. Then there is in Sardinia there had been an occupation to try to block. The installation of military radar radar installation. While there has been a significant vandalism or arson, let us say the House of the proprietor, the owner of the land who is making this deal to provide these. The site for the installation. Was burned. It's Sardiniall over the place, just a sampling in Chile. This Friday night, it's just three days ago 40 thousands 10s of thousands of people massed in the center of Santiago, Chile's capital new protests against the government's plan to dam two wild rivers in the southern. Region of Patagonia 7. A billion dollar plan to build 5 dams in this roadless, beautiful area. Hooded protesters attack police, smashed windows, damaged other property, etc. And this not dated, but I think this just a couple of days ago. Just a little Alf victory. A restaurant in Guttenberg, Sweden selling shortfin soup that had the windows broken. Consistently this last attack, we smashed every window and the next day the menu did not have shark fins soup. But as you may know that it's the killing of sharks just to rip off the. The fins for this expensive treat. In Trinidad in Beetham, Trinidad this Saturday night. Beetham Gardens police shot and killed a gunman. The folks there referred to this person as a community leader. The cops called him a gang leader, I believe. Riot broke out. Yeah, this kind. Of went on and on. The highway there Saturday night and Monday, thousands of students in Burkina Faso. In the capital of Burkina Faso in Africa, burning tires and chanting in support of teachers. Teachers getting the short end of it. Students stormed the Education ministry, destroying computers, smashing windows, burning documents and also on the weekend to getting ahead of myself. This has been going on for about 10 days. The main square in Madrid. Has been occupied a little bit like the Tahrir Square square in. In Cairo, that's where it gets its institute, its inspiration, and this spread to Barcelona. They're demanding various judicial electoral changes and anti corruption moves and this ongoing for 12 years. Indigenous folks in the I think this east of Flagstaff, Northern Arizona have been holding off the development. In the San Francisco Mountains that to build a huge snowball resort. This will involve clear cutting 74 acres, killing off 30,000 trees, et cetera. That development is supposed to actually start today, so probably something of a showdown there. And yeah, that's about it. One this a little early warning thing, but I got this today from Ed in Wales. Thank you, Ed. And everybody else who sent stuff Uncivilization festival will happen in August 19th through the 21st of August in Hampshire. Dark mountain project. There's not much on this yet, but you could go to either uncivilization or Dark Mountain. .net So just a little sampling. There's stuff going on all over the place. And what is the picture? You know, what are the? There's the deep green resistance which is short on the critique of civilization, but long on a number of. Militarized bureaucratic stuff. I don't know what they're thinking and Winona Laduke, I think probably a very impressive person politician as well. She gave a talk in Portland the other day and at Portland State. The this. From Portland Indy media. We're gonna wraps up her presentation by saying that the various things need to be challenged, and while we change it, we need to keep doing what we're doing. And she referred to the enlightened. Path and she said the enlightened path, it is local food. It is renewable energy. It is a reduced petroleum economy. That's it that is weak. That is very weak. That's that's not much of an enlightened vision. I would say I'd say, but yeah, that's really not going very far or very deep. Well, this something else I got today, but there's a lot of a lot of lovely stuff. Again, 5413460645 from Emiliano. Leave out his last name. I don't know what countries sending this friend, but late last week I think it was Thursday. BBC News and loan dawah. Amanda is a people in the Amazonia which has no abstract concept of time. This study appeared in the journal Language and Cognition. Shows that the AMANDOLA recognized events occurring in time but does not recognize time as a separate concept that they don't have a notion of time as being independent of the events that may occur. So in other words, they have no reified. Time as we know it. And of course this another someone like the Daniel Everett findings also in Brazil.

Speaker 6: Maybe just something like presence but not, past and future.

Speaker 5: And but they know sequence. It's not like they're in the dark about the order of things.

Speaker 6: Right?

Speaker 5: That's that's not what time is. That's one of those. Confusion, since this seems to be another guest below, at the chomskian thing that says every language has the same structure and the same features and the same deep grammar. All that sort of thing, yeah? So there are people that of course don't agree like the people that. Refused initially David Daniel Everett's findings so. Not everything is that alienated. At a certain point. Apparently this group was had not been contacted from the so-called outside world until 1986. Now they're starting to learn Portuguese, and so they will be introduced or conditioned into. The modern modern. Languages which of course do operate with that concept. And wonderful concept that now punishing us punishes us and rules us.

Speaker 6: You said there's a rating of. I don't know how many people have seen this, but there's like a reading of from Daniel River's book. I think I saw it on YouTube. From NBC and it's. You know it's this small section of Daniel's interactions with the tribe, but that's one. It always stands out to me. Well, I always like the stuff where the tribesmen come up to and say hey Dan, what do you think of this? I think of that, but there's one where he made. A recording of. One of the. Because he was there, of course, to be a missionary and try to convert them and tell them they're living in sin and all that stuff. So he got he made a recording in their native language. Once he learned it some the new New Testament or certain parts of it. And there's one section there where they. Flipped repeating the tape over and over where they were cutting off thead of John. Baptist is it, yeah, and so he said oh why don't they? They've really taken to this section like they're getting the. They're getting the message and then he realized that they were just. Amazed by the absurdity of it, and so they would say, wow, he cut off his head, play that again like that. Was their interpretation of what he was trying to do? And then yeah, there's another part where they say hey Dan, we don't want to hear about Jesus anymore. We like you but we. Don't like Jesus? As always, I think that I'm reading is fun, yeah?

Speaker 5: Oh yeah. Yes, and as you say or as you imply, he went there to learn the language to so that the Bible could be given to them in their language.

Speaker 6: And then. Right?

Speaker 5: But along the way he began to.

Speaker 6: And deconverted him. I guess they pulled him away from his faith, right?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess. Well, I noticed a couple of things this. This this stuff is easy to find, but. I don't know. Maybe it brings up DGR in a certain way, but we're going to get this. This that in London there's a meet. Well over the weekend, I think 70 people showed up to kick off something called the alarm. And I guess this some group. This anarchist group there. It says. I counted 78 people there rammed into the room at the Calthorpe arms. The meeting was methodical and well chaired and the main purpose. This inaugural meeting was to establish an organizational structure. Sound familiar? So that's the main thing you got to have the you can't being anarchist about.

Speaker 6: It you've got to have a standards committee set the rules.

Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe some things to sign and documents to agree to. So forth, and then there's the wild rose collective. I love the name Wild Rose. Think about how much wildness there is here. This some outfit in Iowa. And it's platformist like what's his name Booth in Dublin? magnevist anarcho communist things from the 20s. There's some of these characters are still around libertarian communism, that sort of thing. They're three, their first three platforms. Key points are tactical unity, theoretical unity, collective responsibility, and of course. Normal organization, but my favorite. Well, can you pick your favorite? I mean, they're all they're all so enticing. Get this. And this might too ring a bell or cause a little echo or collective responsibility. The practice of acting one's personal responsibility should be decisively condemned and rejected in the ranks of the anarchist movement. Wow, Gee, is that the wild fascist collective? Or what is that? Isn't that? Well, how could you be more? Blatant one's personal. Responsibility should be decisively condemned and rejected. Well, comrade, well maybe they ready for DGR. Is that a little? And unfair. I don't see anybody stepping up to defend it. I think Michael. Probably is reading the tea leaves correctly. In fact, he's not reading the leaves. He was, he was me going from Florida, right? So he's been been finding out what's going on. Oh man, I got so much were going to. I'm sorry we didn't have time for this. My fault. Lot of high tech stuff and you could have.

Speaker 6: Oh, I could have.

Speaker 5: Really gone into that.

Speaker 6: Jumped in there.

Speaker 5: Yeah, well, maybe just when did you see this thing into the Sunday New York Times? The Twitter trap? By Bill Keller. It's really strong. It's from the New York Times magazine, Facebook friendship and Twitter chat are displacing real rapport and real conversation. Social network, he says it's some decidedly full about to come around to your Facebook. Something illusory about the connectedness of Twitter. Eroding characteristics that are essentially human. Our ability to reflect our pursuit of meaning, empathy, community that he's just laying it out. This we're just becoming cyborgs. We're letting machines take over the thinking. You know it's just boy, this just. The Twitter trap I recognize it's just a page.

Speaker 6: Yeah, Twitter and Facebook is, everything is distilled to these bite sized comments on your life. And of course you can censor them any way you want to portray. However, it is you want to be portrayed, so it's yeah, it's a. I think it's an in an alien. I mean, I guess there are things that you can do with it, but it's not a replacement for face to face conversation in fact, but it's becoming one. I mean, everything is becoming these bite sized small little slices of experience that happens so fast, right? Have you like something happens one day? The next? Today if you go back and read this Twitter or tweet or Facebook status updates like oh, that's old news. I've already posted 10 or 12 other things that I've moved on from there, so like just time gets compressed to these small little slices and the experience of whatever it is they're trying to get across is like cheap and. Trying to get it out or expressed in such a small light size and like fast food, fast food market for thoughts, experiences going. Nice and.

Speaker 5: There's a torrent of this thing, and through project expression torrent is a bear in mind, but how can you miss it and you were talking about Kevin Kelly and he's copying to a lot of this stuff even historically and.

Speaker 6: Texting yeah texting yeah.

Speaker 5: Maybe that's why, and again, maybe that's why we're getting at this end of the world end times too much. You know, it's just. It's just becoming too much. Well, somebody I don't know I. Guess if we can run out of time here. Well, just one more just to end of the week. This At one out of the week candidate here, AT&T. They're pushing their iPhone only. AT&T's network lets your iPhone talk and surf the web at the same time. Speaking of scattered well.

Speaker 6: Yeah, everything's fragmented.

Speaker 5: Fragmented thank you Cliff, thanks for coming on there.

Speaker 6: For having me yeah, good to meet you.

Speaker 4: Losing myself in the man who presides over me. What's playing on Friday? This ain't no no. I should pick. In the place, it's just say no, this ain't no this ain't no big no.

Speaker 3: Don't look down.

Speaker 4: Very thank you.

UNKNOWN: How's the drive?

Speaker 7: With the fields with his hands.

05-17-2011

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. Drowning Cajuns, exploding Chinese watermelons, French kissing via Internet. Action news. Herzog's Chauvet Cave film. Faster and faster goes the techno-immersion. Many MEEBOs (too many to cover).

UNKNOWN: A million in prizes. We have a touch of town. Java GTO wear uniforms. A lot of government loans. The million. Get your **** **** where the neck or hand jogs.

Speaker 1: All right?

Speaker 2: Well, you're listening to KWVA Eugene. It's about time for anarchy. Radio 5413460645 is the number here. We're going to be on Meebo in a minute. If you go to kwvaradio.org, you can chat with us, live there right from the website and we got Katherine in studio today. We're going to be listening to. I think this some Turkish music right to start off with and then we'll get the show rolling.

Speaker 3: Oh man. Sami kasmin

Speaker 4: 17th of May Anarchy Radio.

Speaker 1: Hello Catherine, thank you.

Speaker 5: Hello, good to be back I missed last month.

Speaker 4: Get it, get it, come down super. We don't want to get. Too much time elapse. Let me just sneak in a couple of housekeeping things. I'm trying to move away from Hotmail account and there were some messages that went to my Hotmail junk and I started to respond and they all disappear. So if you tried that, please try Jay-Z, Primitivo at Gmail at Gmail. Yeah Glenn, that rings a bell I don't know who might be a listener or reader or what have you, but please try again. I didn't mean to. Failed to respond and one other thing a couple of people have said. Sometimes you gripe about only having an hour a week. So what's with the music? You wait some time with the music and basically that's just for the. Takes more casts to clean up and get out, and Carl and I have to get in here as. A rule and set up. So that's the main reason, especially at the end when Chris has the noise show and he has two hours worth of music to line up and sort. Out and get it all get the. Board all. Going on, so that's it, just covers. That essentially. And of course the break in the middle so you can go to the kitchen and pour yourself another martini and not miss.

Speaker 5: Anything that sounds like a Stalinist was making that remark and get rid of the music just.

Speaker 1: And that's it. Whoa, yeah, no music, no humor.

Speaker 4: We got rid of the sound effects mixer, but. Weren't using an omen. Hey, wasn't that cool to hear from our good friend in Serbia? Alexa just recently.

Speaker 5: That was good. That was so good and he sounds like he has a lot going on in the publishing and the block 45.

Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that's the name. Of his publishing imprint name for the Communist housing block. That he still lives in. He's born and. Grown up there. Yeah, the and the news about the new people showing interest and showing up and more discussion. And he's he's letting himself go out in the public a little more the. Zagreb Book Fair and. Yeah, he needed that because I think I've mentioned the all the nationalisms in Serbia which gets him down. So he's he's good to see stuff happening there. More things going on. Well, little news, not much, just a couple of things. I was thinking about the. You know how the industrial world tries to blot out the indigenous cultures and the non mainstream cultures. Well, we're having that right here in the USA. The Cajun folks who seem to be 20 feet underwater. You know 3. Million acres it's projected something like that will be. Will be flooded. The whole thing is to save the cities like Baton Rouge and New Orleans so. With the industrial network of levies and everything. Someone's going to give might as well get. Rid of those Cajuns?

Speaker 5: Yeah, just put them underwater.

Speaker 1: Good morning.

Speaker 5: That's like same thing happened to the engines up here on the Columbia River Gorge. You know, just flooded flooded.

Speaker 4: Get the get those dams up there and. I'm curious, well just a little. I was looking at the some of this weather stuff. Massive drought in central China. Yeah, a lot of people with nothing to drink, and that's getting quite severe. And at the same time, and I like this one, Chinanother trying to think Eastern China. There are fields of exploding phones they've this great. They, they poured on the growth accelerant, which is for chlorophenyl Ron for. I think I got there at 4. For chlorophenol Ron. And which is used on the grapes and Kiwi right here in the states. It's wonderful chemical. Guess they put too much so they. All started blowing. Up under the makers of exploding watermelons.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 4: Probably less serious than the than the big drought, but and as people point out, this just common knowledge just later today. Doctor Eric Chivian, who's the director of the Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School. He's talking about the wildly fluctuating and increasingly unstable changes to the world's climate. You got the floods and the drought and the same at the same time. And there's no longer any serious debate as to the connection. He's he's just pointing out. And let's see. Well, Gee, I can regale everybody with the latest shootings, but I don't. Think it will. But throw the dirt at the map. This, I swear it's just a random thick oh, say Guatemala, two things. I just I think I got this from enterprise service. Lake Atitlan, which was once a beautiful Blue Lake. A popular destination notes laced with tons of fertilizer, pollutants and other pollutants, and a proliferating toxic bacteria, algae, cyanobacteria, cyano that sounds like cyanide, isn't it? It's covered the lake in 2000 and anyway they've ruined. That and now iron Sands mining is coming to the beaches of southwest Guatemala. Pacific side. Destroying nature and tourism and the name of the this an Australian mining consortium called Mayan Iron Corporation. A little bit of a. Slight irony, but when you think of mine civilization maybe not actually with a lot of Chinese money behind it, so there's a lot of opposition to this beaches thing for one thing, but. And we'll find out how serious that resistance is. So we're talking. About crazy high tech stuff. Maybe we should. And we should. Jump into that.

Speaker 5: Crazy high tech. That sounds like a good way to go. Throw start out, lightweight on it with the Hawk mand the webcam. A lovely story in the New York Times on Sunday about the idea was to spy on natures nest. Humans couldn't get out of the way. There's this another ironic little story of a majestic hawk hatching its eggs and putting a camera on. Next thing people are getting all upset. The nest wasn't pristine, it was being built with garbage by the poor little birds, then watching watching the. Surveyed Hawks became the dilemma. By the audience of they were concerned that the incubation had gone too long and worried about intervening. Then some baby Hawks were born and they saw that the identification band. They put on. Was strangling the leg of 1 and they send emergency team in and the emergency team met. And decided to that everything was probably better to leave it alone. And just like this crazy story of nature and man. But in technology just technology. And I thought that might be a good introductory way to just start talking a little bit about the what we're experiencing right now that I think a couple weeks ago there was outcry. The Guardian, I think initially covered that people were being. Tracked on by oh, alarm alarm surprise, when I'm using my cell phone. In fact, you can track me for the last year on every place I've been at. What time would have? Done, and I think people are beginning beginning to realize exactly this. The idea of surveillance or how much. How much is being lost in this and? I what? I feel is very much. We're in a transition state in the computer field, so rather than going into a monologue here, let me let you jump in and then.

Speaker 4: Well, that's yeah, that's it reminds me of that term. Flucos term, docile bodies. It's pretty. It's pretty insidious. You know you have to cooperate with it or you don't get to play. You know you don't get to.

Speaker 1: Be communicating, it's.

Speaker 4: It's but it is a disciplinary. thing where. We're just trapped in it, we're. Trapped in the web and the net. And that's. That's the name of the game and how and. To say. Oh, we should be out. Good, well that's yes. It's a nice cinema, but how exactly that will be? Functioning without it right now.

Speaker 5: No, I think even like I had last month or so, the last one of the more recent ad Busters and Michael White, I think did that. Did a long thing on WikiLeaks and. People got very enthused. Oh, look at everything. We found out about government secrets. This sentence from it at the dawn of 2011. There is again hope that technology can birth the barricades of the 21st century. Perhaps the most exciting direction for activism is with flash mobs and to see this dissident or resistance. Type magazine The whole. Lack of analysis that the technology is not a friend and it's not neutral. You know to the point of even saying, oh it's maybe even going to lead the revolution right? That it's a freedom, freedom and information sharing. I came across. Came across the BBC to whatever that is. It's not really accessible to me and Portland OR on cable TV or something that a program that I saw a brief review on is about to be. Release called all watched over by machines of loving grace by Adam Curtis and I. I saw this and was hoping to like get a glance at it because I figured it was. Purportedly very critical, but very analytical about currently what is the? State we're at. Currently and it led me on a little Internet search that took me to articles from 1996 about ubiquitous computing. I'll just throw out this brief summary. That the. This in 1996 she. I think it's Hewlett Packard Xerox. This Mark Weiser started talking and probably their listeners even who are very familiar with ubiquitous computing. This allegedly a third stage, the first stage of computing. Mainframe then personal computers and then the stage that we're going to is ubiquitous computing. Just a few things describing what that concept is. It's massive interconnection of personal business and government information will create a new field and new medium against which the next great relationship will emerge. Some of these computers will be hundreds. We may access in the course of a few minutes of Internet browsing is a. It's a change from. being in the state of personal computers and this one to one where people are in rainbowing us now and I've got my texting and that thing too. We're more we are a piece of the big computer. Phil, it's yeah. Here is the best people being shared by computers. I think that's a real good. You know, that's a real nice instead of we're not sharing computers anymore. The computers are sharing us. So welcome, welcome to the welcome.

Speaker 4: Yeah, the connections are very graphic.

Speaker 5: To new world.

Speaker 4: There was this Helen showed me this from the University of Chicago magazine. Thanks similarly of something that was posted in Chicago. It says it's just a hand drawn message. Neil Luddite society. The point Friday. The point is of work. I guess it goes out into. The lake 4. Mark, they want to meet. They want to have a meeting. Get the neon lights together. Our devices divide us. Our voices unite US text all your friends and there it is. I mean they. They put the critique, but then . To pull this off text all. Your friends, I mean. It’s a strange juxtaposition and then. Somebody wrote on the flyer. Find us on the web so it's these layers of being tied into it.

Speaker 5: And it really is to. Be. It's this. There's a radical detournement where the present, . I would say the present generation, whatever the stage, that we're in of the personal computer where people really do have the solution of having more power or being empowered by the technology. With a complete wall to what you're putting in, what you the contribution to the creation of just complete amassing of information way beyond what humans are capable of processing.

Speaker 4: Yeah, these I got a couple of examples. I think the tyrant and it I noticed the political cartoon from the Philadelphia Daily News that shows these two guys sitting on a couch looking at an image of bin Laden sitting in his room with the. That the clicker pointed at the screen and one says to the other. That dude was like so pathetic and they're sitting there doing the same thing. They got the clicker on the screen and they don't notice. And this a good one. There are these one is called blue, these electronic cigarettes. It's a nicotine laden vapor. It's not tobacco smoke. Some people have never seen this, but they're E cigarettes and now there's a device that enables if you have one of these blue. This it can find the other if there are any others, like if you're a party or something like that. So you can link up with somebody else who's doing the E cigarettes. In other words, the machine contacts the other machine and you're just gonna finish the machine.

Speaker 5: Exactly exactly, and that's I mean, that's exactly what you see is it's the machine contacts the other machine and you're just. You're just a little piece on the outside.

Speaker 4: It's not so subtle, but it's but you. It doesn't say that, but yet it does say that's exactly what it's describing, but it you don't see the gap or the the. Fundamentally, it's like were. Just saying, It’s the machine contacting the other machine. Or this one? In these examples, but Eric Whitaker or Whitacre, he's a composer and conductor, an American. He just pulled off the virtual choir 2.0 at the Paley Center in New York involving. Something like 900 voices and the meaning of virtual choir is that individuals sing their part in front of a webcam and follow his conducting on the screen and listen to the accompaniment in earphones. And then they put it all together. I can't imagine what it looks like. It doesn't say, but it must be. It must be pictures of 900 people on a on a vast screen or something. So in other words, you don't need to get together with people and sing, and stand next to each other and look at each other and . I mean. What else is in this choir here for 20 years and now we can just surpass that transcend that just to spend a little?

Speaker 2: Do you remember our friend last week who contacted us about the dilemmabout communicating with you through? The same technological system. That we're all trying to get.

Speaker 4: Rid of yes, yes, that’s the contradiction.

Speaker 2: Well, he or she would like you to. Elaborate yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh oh, on the thing.

Speaker 2: They just wrote back in and said that while you acknowledge that it's a contradiction, the time limitation last week prevented a more in depth response. I deal with this contradiction every day immersed in the digital wasteland of the 21st century. The fact that I am communicating with the with John Zerzan through a device called Meebo blows my mind and convinces me more than ever that thegemonic technological order is here to stay. Please convince me otherwise and elaborate on the contradiction.

Speaker 4: It's I think the only. Thing for it is just to expose it and see. Hopefully see the resistance, see the. Because if it's OK with everybody this shift, then I mean there's really nothing more to say. People are just going to be. We're going to settle for this enormously, deepening mediation. You know or not? I mean, it's I think The thing is to track it and expose it in the and we're we are forced to use it. I think. I think we are, I mean. And I'm sure the person there has had the same conversation. I mean, I've heard I've heard this variation for years and years. You should be in a cave, you're primitivist well. OK, yeah one level. But then what? Mean that doesn't. That doesn't seem to be the answer either. I mean, if you can't communicate otherwise, but you can communicate. And do the critique too. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe the caller is has a better angle on that one, but I don't know how you get around it. I wouldn't be doing this radio show if I was just going to. Categorically, reject it all. I don't think that's real.

Speaker 2: An option so another listener notes that one thing about all this light based technology that we're staring at speeds up occipital lobe and slows down critical front lobe brain thinking he says we're beta waved into passivity. Recommends that you watch someone who's been watching television. For more than 15 minutes, try to throw. A ball at them or something.

Speaker 5: But I think that is so that's. More and more. People are becoming aware it's being more and more documented about actual brain changes happening in upcoming generations that because of the fantastic imaging technology we have is being looked at and studied. But what does it meand what will that look like in the future? You know is anybody's guess. I would say it's not anybody's guess. I like when I was going through this and trying to prepare myself for talking on the radio today, I came across Michael Becker's article again and he. This was is a piece of cybernetic worldview, tending toward total artificiality, and that's what I think is this occipital lobe frontal lobe. All of this changes are just creating a homosassa pien that is not what was done before. And I think more functions as a piece of a big computer than the way we've known life in the past.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right. The evidence is there and the meaning of it is this being coaxed out. It’s an open question is a quick is a brief poem by Sherman Alexie, the Native American writer. The Facebook sonnet. Welcome to the Endless High school reunion. Welcome to pass. Signs and numbers however kind or cruel. Let's undervalue and unended the. Why can't we pretend every stage of life is the same? Let's exhume resume and extend childhood. Let's all play the games that. Occupy the young. Let fame and shame intertwine. Let one search for God become public. Domainletchurch.com become our church. Let's sign up. Sign in and confess here at the altar of loneliness.

UNKNOWN: I love that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's well done here. It's no good.

Speaker 4: Yorker, the current issue I think really he.

Speaker 2: I heard him read that. Yeah, well it was really, really cool. Really powerful.

Speaker 4: He gets it unlike another Native American writer, Gerald Vizenor, who worships the. The whole postmodern training it all he's. I think he's. Definitely in the minority in terms of indigenous voices. Well, well, what maybe we should take a quick break now. See forget what it is.

Speaker 2: It's Miles Davis.

Speaker 4: Miles Davis can't go wrong. You get that martini board we're. Gonna do some Action News and then go back to the high tech thing and one other things.

Speaker 2: Oh wait, before you do that, I just wanted to mention that there’s just been this flurry of activity about your living situation Nebo here, but I think that in amongst the people who are, talking about your. You know how could you say you're proudest if you live in a house, George says. Pretty well that going to live in a cave would be great if only there was a way to safeguard against the encroachment of civilization. Indigenous peoples are not inviting us into their rainforest. The clear cut civilization must be dismantled from the inside out or else retreating into the increasingly disappearing natural world is meaningless.

Speaker 4: Going George.

Speaker 5: Yeah, George sounds good, OK?

Speaker 4: Well, some people are taking action. We always like to just have at least a sample here in the Malaysian state of Sarawak, residents from 10 BU villages. That's part of Sara said four to five logging camps and 13 heavy machines. This was during the past week anti logging activity. Last Wednesday, one day general strike in Athens. Turned violent and the cops turned very violent and part of that if I forget the names here, but. A follow up on Saturday. The Exarchia neighborhood police precinct was attacked with fire bombs and fortunately three people were three bystanders were injured. And yeah, that’s heating up again. It's getting severe in Chile, in Santiago. In fact Wednesday and Thursday. It's a Wednesday. I think it was local Magistrates Court was attacked with Molotovs. That's where the prosecuting and the one of the bombs case. Had taken place and. An incendiary device was placed at the Banco de Chile in the Vitacura neighborhood. By anti new people and. There were barrel bombs placed against the Cultural Center. And roadblock with burning barricades. This was Thursday, ohhh in. She lay in on Wednesday. Rights broke out in Karachi, Pakistan over power failures. Major loss of electricity. People getting fed up with that it was exacerbated by the fact that workers were occupying the power plants and made it difficult to do the repairs. This has been in the middle of last week as of that time. Three days and had been occupied by protesting workers. And yeah, the youngest kafkas. I think it was the key Greek fighting for his life and the Wednesday the same day as the general strike. Several dozen anarchists stormed a hospital. He was being held there. This was before the. Take phone call OK and on Thursday in Augusta. In Italy, four petrol bombs launched against a branch of Bank of UniCredit. Yeah, let's see. OK and early Thursday morning 22 actions in Belgium in the town of alone early early Thursday, the car a hybrid car belonging to a prosecuting attorney. Behind the justice building was destroyed by fire Saturday night. Some vandals set fire next to a bank, damaging the bank, causing the windows to burst Saturday back in oh. I already said this one. The attack of the in the Exarchia police station in Athens. A thousands of people more than 30 cities around Turkey. Took to the streets on Sunday. In opposition to a new system, proposed system to filter the Internet to censor Internet reception. And on Sunday, least well, I think the latest kind is 13 people were killed on the borders of Israel. Palestinian refugee protesters crossing the border. It's over places and numbers. Some of them were shot and killed by the IDF. And this Sardinia, Italy. They were planning military radar installations. This has been blocked by occupations. This Sunday. This also Sunday darish along in Tanzania on Monday. A giant open pit gold mine. There has impoverished the area. The North Mara Gold mine, owned by Canada's Barrick Corporation. This happened twice in a week where hundreds of villagers invaded the mine for building supplies, and there was a battle I think 5. Five of them were killed. 10 cops were injured. An article in Monday's New York Times about a concept called Voop Burger Burger was named by the German Language Society as the word of the Year in 2010, and that refers. It shows how widespread this. White Burger means enraged citizen. And this seems to be escaping the left right dimension. One of the first signs of this I remember reading about this. They were going to in Stuttgart and conservative SW German town. New railway station, enormous opposition. In terms of a lot of things, new airport and this in the context of increasingly low turn out in elections. In various people are pointing out that they can no longer consider the quote democratic institutions legitimate because people are so turned off. It's a deep, politicized thing, but very militant. In various parts of various parts of Germany, for example, against plans by the army to. Hence the military base for fire for firing protests against nukes. All over the place it's that's happening in Germany and late last week in West Bengal. This just this. Not exactly resistance, but. The Communist Party there has been in power in the state of West Bengal for 34 years. They were trounced because they are exceedingly pro industry. And that does not go over. They want more steel plants and so forth, and they were totally kicked out. And let's see, oh, you mentioned investors, and they've announced that the next issue is going to be called. We jump over the dead body of the left. Maybe it will even be a decent issue. And then this one, the current majune one. It's quite a ringing statement by Walter Bond. There is an Alf guy. They printed his statement to the court. Which is quite extreme for AD Busters. He just he announces how much he. He burned down a sheepskin factory in Colorado and he's accused of other arsons in different places. Californiand in other places. He says the people own these outfits that torture animals. It's the whole animal liberation thing. They don't care about us well, he says, I don't care about you. I hope you choke on it being the Prophet and burning hell.

Speaker 5: They don't, they don't like. That in the court you're. Supposed to cry and say I'm sorry.

Speaker 4: Exactly, you have little and vague and stuff and he just.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: He just the ringing thing.

Speaker 5: Choke on it, nice.

Speaker 4: It lit the fire lives on every time the night sky lights up a blaze with the ruins of another animal, exploiters business. He says you can. You cannot join the Alf, but you can become the Alf. And it was the proudest and most. Powerful thing I have ever. Done, never compromise. Pretty ringing, thanks for the adjusters.

Speaker 5: Add add bus station is funny like that. I mean that's why I keep picking it up. It's like hitting this and sometimes it's you. Guess I'm just like wow then other times, yuck.

Speaker 1: Hmm yeah.

Speaker 4: Right, well, there's a letter that Chellis Glendinning sent to friends in public letter, Bolivia. Letter #5. She's been there almost a year now, living in Marquina in Bolivia. She says that 85% disapprove of the Evo Morales regime. Chomsky would be sad to hear.

Speaker 3: OK.

Speaker 4: And just I'm just going to quote a couple lines here, the concluding thing she says The upshot and something I know I'm noticing in other parts of the world as well. Is that more people are realizing that the nation state itself. Her emphasis, the entity that is not God-given, but rather born of conquest, corporate ravaging, and alienation from community stands in the way of human rebalancing and of survival. She says more people are getting that. Maybe that's somewhat connected to that German.

Speaker 5: And great citizen, yeah.

Speaker 4: Phenomenon yeah, yeah, but OK. Here's one clinker, clinker, whatever it's in the current Z magazine. Open any page. Here's a review by Randall Amster of Brian Tokarz's book toward climate justice. Took her directs the Institute for Social Ecology in Vermont, so he's a booking guy. He's talking very vaguely about justice. Whenever you hear the word justice, it's reform is drivel you.

Speaker 1: Know what, what any.

Speaker 4: Anything that goes before or after the word. This. This so such a powerful book and get this still tokar is no anti civilization nihilist. No, just I mean just through.

Speaker 5: That and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: And I think, as Becker mentions in his, that great essay of his It’s an idea that's stalking various people heading leftwards in.

Speaker 5: It keeps creeping into the discourse, and they don't.

Speaker 1: Left foot

Speaker 5: Want it there? But they end.

Speaker 4: Comes out.

Speaker 5: Up putting it in. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And 5th of the what we have.

Speaker 5: So blew it off.

Speaker 2: Listener inky Doo respond to the Greek police station attack. He says that you're someone in. From Greece says that the police station attack may have been done by agents provocateurs or fascists. As anti racist group and a bookstore nearby were attacked.

Speaker 4: Oh, I see. So those casualties maybe weren't to be Lated defeat of vanities.

Speaker 2: Possibly that's what somebody in Greece.

Speaker 1: Thank you, oh.

Speaker 4: OK, to get back to the anti tech thing. I love this one. Just see this one here. A Japanese lab has created a device that may let you French kiss someone. Over the Internet. It's called a kiss transmission device. It looks like a police breathalyzer thing. Sexy and by kiss we mean waggle your tongue on a plastic straw, thereby making another plastic straw waggle remotely on somebody else's tongue. Boy, that sounds ******. That sounds wow.

Speaker 5: Yeah, is a cure for alienation for educating on computing, right?

Speaker 1: Yeah alright techno.

Speaker 4: Salvation Tokyo's Katsumoto laboratory says it's just the beginning of what could become a full on person to person experience. Over the Internet. Oh, I can't wait. And the. The 3D stuff. Well, this the 3D stuff I was thinking of these avatar things like second life. You know World of Warcraft? All that stuff? Virtual reality? Well they've made they've made the jump. Now that's 2D you're looking at you're looking at the figure that represents you. On the screen with those things you choose, whatever avatar you want. You could be whatever you want to be. Whatever gender or anything. Well now. You can go to three-dimensional virtual meeting. And you are there, It’s. It's hard to imagine without leaving your living in your office. You'll sit at three-dimensional virtual meetings or classes looking on the table or the lecture hall at your colleagues avatars. You're right. In it, you're not watching yourself in it. It's a whole quantum leap here. There's a new book called Infinite Reality by Blaskovich and Bailenson. Yeah, consumer technology and you can. You can program it so. The professor you could control everything if you're if you're avatar is in a lecture, you can make it so the professor seems to be gazing directly at you and everybody it's the professor is gazing at everyone so you get that.

UNKNOWN: And then there'll be.

Speaker 5: French kissing you. The next thing you.

Speaker 1: There you go.

Speaker 5: Know put it all together well.

Speaker 4: Ideally, and you can, you can sleep. You can sleep through the class or the meeting or whatever, because your avatar is in there. And the perfect image of you and the making, taking notes and recording them.

Speaker 5: I'll have to go back to that because I do think this concept of ubiquitous computing is important and one thing when you talk about the virtual reality and trying to be clear to the audience and what is ubiquitous computing, they say it's roughly the opposite. Virtual reality. Virtual reality puts people inside a computer generated world. Ubiquitous computing forces the computer to live out here in the world with people, and so it's you, know that ubiquitous computing is many computers everywhere, and another name for it is calm technology. And so you don't even know all these computers are there and interacting all with each other is just in the background, just in the background. But in fact, you're just in that web.

Speaker 1: Great looks forward.

Speaker 4: At a revenues rate, huh?

Speaker 5: Crazy for it. Yeah, for the brave in this rate. So and then and then I'll put in a plug for her dogs movie, which is like, whoa, things could be different things.

Speaker 3: With who?

Speaker 5: Ones were different and beautiful. Beautiful the paintings to see the paintings as they're presented in 3D imagery.

Speaker 2: It's not here in Eugene.

Speaker 4: This. Chauvet Cave and it's Francis. 30,000 years.

Speaker 5: Shall they cave in? France is at this level, cinema 21 in Portland, but only cinema 21, which is a little independent theater packed.

Speaker 1: What is it, yeah?

Speaker 5: I saw the second week. I think it was showing people lined up to see it back-to-back showings. I do think that there is a need or there's something that this made people go and see it, and it's just the paintings themselves are stunning, just stunning. And the great Leap. In fact, I brought I brought in from the New York Times lead in to talk about Hertzog was the Venice Biennale and these crazy multimillion dollar US pavilions going to incorporate a tank. And this, very hip. Critique or something a lot everybody fabricating multi $1,000,000 and that is our art that is our contemporary art today. And just like the contrast to look at these charcoal. Animals from from 30,000, from way predating what was thought 10 years ago.

Speaker 4: Well, It’s the Upper Paleolithic. It's the we see these caves in France and. Spain I guess mainly. So what's her talk take is? He's just presenting, he's just taking you inside and. That's no particular theory on it or anything, it's just the. Stunning reality of it.

Speaker 5: Well yeah no, no. I mean, her dog's always got his his his take his viewpoint and. Yeah, very bad I. Mean he summarizes at the end the contrast between. An existent strand. A way of viewing life and then 20 miles apparently from these caves are albino crocodiles in the nuclear environment mutant tell buy new crocodiles and says maybe we now are like these mutant crocodiles and homosassa. Living in this cave at this time was a different animal.

Speaker 4: A different animal, but maybe not so far away from the genetic mutations. I mean, 30,000 years isn't much. There isn't the symbolic is so recent. The move to representation. You know that's a big question, what was what was that about now? Where we continue down that road of representation? So electronic. Now, not all. But in other words, you can argue that there's. A connection that wasn't there before that's not. Yeah, I know it's. The naturalist beauty naturalistic beauty is stunning, but it's also a move that. And open the door.

Speaker 5: But do you think do you think there could be a primal? Like a primal impulse for image making or dancing or music that is not necessarily symbolic, step of civilization and of alienation that it could just be, an enjoyment in the present.

Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean. It's, but I mean there is a correspondence if you look at the emergence of hierarchy and intentions in society. It’s about to. It's about to give birth to domestication. It’s, very close in time so. And it just raises the question it. Seems to me. Whether that's I mean it, bursts forth with all this powerful. And It’s I. I mean, I agree It’s incredible stuff. It’s fully formed, It’s there. They have perspective and. They have everything I. Mean there it is but and. That's in itself is really. It's something to think about, but there's alsomething about I would say in terms of how close that is to everything starting to go wrong, whereas I mean I was looking at this thing today. More this a column about all of these new books about that. That Pomo sapiens are the human family back well before the sapiens, including that anyway, the basic thing is that we are cooperators, not competitors, and that's the bottom line is it is a raft of books. You know, carry that outlook or that interpretation and the and the line at the back is. If cooperation permeates our nature, then so does morality and there is no escaping, ethics, emotion and religion. I don't think so. I mean, when you I think of that story of the woman 1.7 million years ago, they found the fossilized remains and she was cared for by others because her body was. She had this vitamin Osus A which turns. Bones to just calcify. You can't even move, and yet she lived considerably past that. She would have just been a carcass of the watering hole very quickly if somebody hadn't taken some the band. Assuming that that's one or more people took care of her, so that was that was a million point. Seven years before religion says it, So what does it? Don't chew? Horn the religion in there? I mean, that's not necessarily part of anything. Anyway, yeah, I'd love to see that.

Speaker 5: Well, I mean bringing that up. I remember 1 scene in the movie where there's maybe cave Bear skull or some one of the schools is placed on rock formation and her child comments that oh, this looks like an altar. And there's all these theories about the image making and religion that there's a relationship there. Is that I guess in some in some ways for whatever reason. I do question that it does it have to be a linear development or chronological that could? Isn't it still possible to believe that something like moving to music making? Or, blowing through wrist through a bone with holes to make different tones, or to pick up charcoal and swipe it on the wall and it reminds. Me of a. Mammoth, thing that couldn't. The possibility that there's a separation.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I see your point. Music goes much further back and it's not representational, so I think there's some difference. But yeah. I mean, It’s it. It sounds forced to reductive to just lay out the linear thing, and yet. There are these correspondences, and maybe they're just coincidental, but maybe they're not, that's

Speaker 5: Right?

Speaker 4: But it's. It might be more like that though I. Meand it's not like a conspiracy like consciously. Oh, now we're going to get symbolic culture going, and then everybody will have to work and.

Speaker 5: Right, right?

Speaker 4: And . Everything else but it's fascinating. You recommend seeing thearts.

Speaker 5: I'd recommend . I think he's provocative and just seeing the paintings are pretty good.

Speaker 4: Well, it should come down to the bijou then I guess. It's like the art theatre circuit. Probably it if the tree falls, it'd. Probably be at the. Vision, by the way, next month toward the latter, probably about exactly a month. From now the. The green scare. Thrown by Marshall Curry. Tim Lewis had. A hand in that. I guess we got to sign out. Cannot handle anymore memos or anything.

Speaker 5: But it was hot. I was looking at the computer.

Speaker 1: It looks pretty hot, yeah?

Speaker 5: There's like a lot lot going on nibo. We have to get a visual, .

Speaker 2: I still think we need a bell. We need a Ding.

Speaker 5: Ah, OK, for when one comes in.

Speaker 2: I I sent a purchase order and to get the approved and I never heard back.

Speaker 4: See, yeah we. You're having to handle that we. I guess we'll have to just figure it. Out as we go.

Speaker 2: So you discovered Richard Thompson?

Speaker 4: Richard Thompson to go out on thanks a lot, Catherine.

UNKNOWN: Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: She was.

UNKNOWN: They have.

Speaker 3: All the key and never ask.

UNKNOWN: I have brown.

05-10-2011

[audio]

My Arizona trip. Freedom blazes recent and current, in various countries. All-out development, asthma, autism. Invisible Committee Frenchies spotted in California. One call, lotsa MEEBO.

Speaker 1: And Rand jobs task machine. He's going to do.

Speaker 2: All right, you're listening. To KWVAUG and right now it's about time for anarchy. Radio John's going to talk about his. Trip to the southwest and there's going to be some Action News and more stuff than you can shake a stick at. You can call 541-346-0645 or check us out at KWV. Aradio.org, we'll have our Meebo chat up there in a minute so you could send us some. Some stuff that way too, all right. We're going to take a break right now. Listen to a tune, get all. Ready and we'll be back in just a minute. For another radio. A little bit.

Speaker 3: Of Nino rota. Get us rolling. For the broadcast Anarchy, Radio May 10th. Suddenly I have no sound in my. Headphones just like last. Week they were there a minute ago.

Speaker 2: Oh, really, that's too bad.

Speaker 3: Pardon me, well, I'm still on the Arizona beat. If you will. Still thinking that it's in the 90s and I'm just. Lazing around We're just here though. No, I don't. Think I'm not. Getting anything. We're on a tight ship, I just checked. It and then went away. Well, let me first say Kathy will be here next week on the 17th and then Cliff. We'll be here on the 24th, so it'll be interesting later. In the month somebody brought up, it's great to get comments to see what people like or don't like somebody that I truly respect said. How come you never have any prisoner news? You never talk about? You never talk about our political prisoners, and I think that's really important. I do correspond with always at least a couple of folks. Behind bars. And having some technical difficulties here over there, we go well. Thank you, Carl.

Speaker 2: That one works.

Speaker 3: It's always reassuring as I point out to hear my own voice, but. I don't know, maybe I should do that. Maybe I should. And you can also call in. About that, your favorite political person. Things like that if I. Had two hours, I know. I would really work to keep. It's a shifting scene, It’s really important to support is super important. In fact, in Arizona got together with Mark Hoy who's got our federal prison earlier this year. Well, no, when was it? Yeah, I think Stella's here and that was a great trip by the way the whole thing was tremendous to be down there to be back down with my friends Dand Sharon and also a driver collective. Saturday night we had a great event. Was a benefit for. For a native woman who had been evicted and was in prison, she's already relocated to Montana. The benefit for Angelita lot of fun. The bands ramshackle glory and bands of the Unicorn played, and there was a I did a little talk, and we had a fabulous discussion. In fact, at one point I said we know these bands are. Ready to play. You know they're waiting and they just kept going and it was just a great dialogue. Among the various people who showed up some. People are I guess are not normally at dry. River was really stimulating and then finally somebody finally somebody who's going to play said hey, when we get to play but it. Would have it. Would have gone on and on. I think that really nobody left and that's always. Cool to be a part of a sustained thing where people really engage and. We're listening to each other. Yeah, this this woman who. So evicted she spoke out against the Border Patrol brutality and he was in another state now. And we showed a. Little that trailer which I mentioned from the forthcoming fall and Winter Film bunch of people. And that was a nice trailer. I wanna keep track of that. I don't know when it's coming up. All the editing is mostly it to be done so it's going to be probably a few months, but they're. Hustling to get this full length thing out. Be worth waiting for it. It's somewhat like nsiv I believe, but we'll get that later. OK, well, the depth and breadth of the anti government energy continues. If the Syrian thing is continues to amaze us. I think it's. It's still an evidence, despite the sustained violent repression. Tunisiagain, and Oman, Yemen. It's not a new one but. Not that the point is whether they're new. Or not, but along folks. In Vietnam are getting together and clashing. Near the border of Laos they want to they're not happy with Vietnamese government, power over them, and at the same time this theadline front page USA TODAY. Yesterday troops morale and field plunges. troops fighting in Afghanistan are experiencing some of the greatest psychological stress and loss morale in five years of fighting, according to a new military study. But Geronimo has been slain. How about that for another low point of the whole? Assassination thing on bin Laden. Oh, is this something I mentioned? The how cursive writing isn't taught in the primary grades? And I was.. Thinking well, if you're speaking up for cursive handwriting, isn't that like you're boosting symbolic? The symbolic of course, but . But anyway, there were a bunch of letters and various papers. I like this one, referring to the article I cited. Wendy Olds in New York writes your article about cursive writing brought back the memory of the day. My daughter Jenny came home from 2nd grade and proudly showed me a lining paper in which she had written. Today we learned curse of writing firmly. Many people today would agree with sweet, the currency. Realization written language. And somebody else said civilization survived. Oh, survived the migration of shorthand to the history books. It will. It will be able to do the same with cursive now probably so the last. OK 5413460645. You are free to call or maybe. No, you don't have to wait for Catherine and Cliff to get on Danville. We actually have more time for it today.

Speaker 2: How do how do people Meebo US John?

Speaker 3: How do they? Thank you Carl. Will they go to kwbaradio.org? That's right, you were gonna catch me. Yeah, the old website and they're on that web page. The first page is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, you just you just.

Speaker 3: So I had to do.

Speaker 2: Start typing, you don't have to log in or.

Speaker 3: Anything you don't have to submit identification or password. Something like that. That's what always defeats me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why it's so easy.

Speaker 3: See, I want to be on Facebook. How do I do that? And then I? Can't figure out. How to do it? No, I don't want to. Be on Facebook. Well the Mississippi. I don't know if this record thing record cresting right now. In several states, the river untamable Yeah, I'm not going to get in this article, but we all know the point can't do anything about it. The Mississippi, as it rolls down across the farm lands and golfing homes and whatnot. It's also a river of pesticides and mass sewage and diesel oil when you, especially when you when it runs free like that, it just brings. All that way. So the question is, do you want it spread? Around the farm or. Do you want it or do you want it just to flow into the Gulf of Mexico which is? Already pretty messed up and meanwhile it has never rained so much in Colombia. Torrential rains to hundreds died and thousands made homeless record level rainfall and floods affect 3/4 of kilometer. This according to the Guardian. In the UK, at the end of last week, over the past ten months, we have registered five or six times more rainfall than usual. According to weather specialist Ricardo Lozano. Oh boy, thousands and thousands. That's I mean stone for its heavy rain, a pair of like the season and so forth. But this has been a continuing. Down for everything is under threat. Well, we get the energy stuff. We always have the energy thing and they've recovered more bodies. I think it was Saturday. Three more bodies from the coal mine in northern Mexico that sustained the gas explosion. Earlier last week, I think the toll was 10. And just a reminder, in the Ukraine the former Soviet state looks for technology to find its own gas. They're going to start the fracking. Through Fort Worth through some energy energy company there. American energy companies which have demonstrated they can produce natural gas economically from shale. Through franking, which is the Nice. Which is the way to. Do it, yes. It's green and sustainable actually. President Obama, let's say this from Friday, once nuclear energy, natural gas, and clean coal counted in setting a goal for 80% of the nation's electricity from clean sources by 2035.

Speaker 2: Coal is always clean.

Speaker 3: And you and so is nuclear radioactivity. You can't see it. It doesn't leave any dumpsters set or harmful stone pollution free. So that's the. Goal, it just depends on how you word it. I guess hcoming right along. Yes, here's here's a column just the goofiness of it. This the topic is of letters to the editor heading. The topic is balancing radiations, benefits and. Risks sounds like sanity. It's only saying, though, of course, if you have the prevailing worship of energy, the. The overriding. Goal the overriding priority. Well, the Ogallala is more on this the Ogallalaquifer in the Midwest, draining much faster than nature can recharge it.

Speaker 2: I think that.

Speaker 3: Goes away from Oklahoma to Canada. That's one of the biggest we already knew that. Actually, meanwhile The Canadian province of Quebec. Well, the pen is showing the way they want to. Well the total sands that's to the West Alberta I think mostly anyway. There aren't very many people in northern Quebec, so they figure it's time to start developing its vast but largely untouched northern. Regions, and that's part of the boreal forest that goes all the way through Alaska, Russia, Scandinavian countries. It’s an important reserve of fresh water. Yeah, this just an enormous. In fact it encompasses this plan that they're laying out comes as all of Quebec's territory above the 49th parallel. It's starting with a huge infrastructure. Project billions of dollars. We have every resource imaginable up north. Says, the premier of Quebec, but the proposal faces potential hurdles. Let's hope so, and it seems like every week instead of the end of week end of the week, we had to have the dam or the mine of the week because. Each successive week seems to be the world's biggest fill in. The blank is slated for somewhere now, $7 billion project to dam. Two of the world's wildest rivers. Talking about southern Chile. Patagonia, which is wild there. There is a groundswell of opposition. For that already. This would be just another enormity. And let's see, this was the middle of last week, and this another staple that every single successive study, some environmental study shows that it's the projections were faulty. They were, they were way too sane. And here's, here's the. Here's the deal, and one of the key ones, the ice of Greenland the rest of the Arctic, is melting faster, dramatically faster than earlier projections. Global sea levels could. Rise by as much as five feet this century, cording to a report from the Arctic monitoring and assessment program. Which is the scientific arm of the 8 Nation Arctic Council and right under that in the paper? I read this from right under that according the UN. There may be 10.1 billion people by the end of this century. That's the projection. And we need more energy to keep that growing. Let's see, that's the the twist there. Yeah, what makes all that happen? What drives all that so? I've mentioned them before. Well, this part of this whole thing and saw this in a couple of places. dramatic here, motion sensing cameras on the island of Sumatra captured video of two families of endangered tigers. In Lowland forest scheduled for destruction. They're going to clear this whole area. In Sumantra indonesia. To make way for. Asia pulp and Paper Corporation's plans. To make toilet paper and so forth? Yeah, they’re just they're caught on camera. The paper mill saws are coming coming there too, and climate change. This late last week the subject of feeding 7 billion people involves pointing out that it isn't that 7 billion people aren't getting fed first of all. In terms of the need for. For all the energy but all the energy. In other words, the warming climate is. Already cutting substantially in the in the crop yields. In some countries this from the New York Times last Thursday or Friday. May be a factor in the food price increases that have already caused worldwide stress. Especially since 2008. Weather is changing and it's changing everything fast. Billions of dollars of losses already in terms of feeding the world. So when these folks I wouldn't mention the name Noam Chomsky, but in other words, primitivism is attacking the security of people, the. The possibility of feeding people. No, the insecurity comes from the whole. Apparatus the whole biz which is which is threatening. Them more and more. Feeding people, feeding fewer people at higher prices. But technology, we know technology can save us one of the things that's been kicked around is how?

Speaker 2: Carbon dioxide.

Speaker 3: Can be pulled out of the air through technology. Well, I guess it can, but there's a brand new thing today. Actually from a piece by John Collins Rudolph. It's enormously expensive. It seems simple. The premise is simple, but it's very expensive, which would mean it would take a lot of energy to do it. Yeah, this nowhere near you. Can pull anything out of a hat and say oh this the answer. We can make a fire out of water or whatever it might be, but. It's it would cost. Well, I’m going. To figure, but it's a it's. A no win. Evidently, OK, maybe just a couple of things. Here before we. Have a break and do some Action News I'm trying to. I'm trying to cope. I'm still in the desert like I said, but anyway well, the brand New Oxford Handbook of Stress, Health and coping has come out. Yeah, there is a little bit of. Stress and impacting health. And Google search. This part of the. Intro Google Search showed approximately 1.4 million entries for self help books on coping with stress right there you get the picture and here's another. You got a couple of couple of health things, couple of major ones I think. This 1/4 life. Crisis crisis, not the mid life crisis. This from the Guardian. Newspaper from England last Friday the 6th, May 6th. New research by British psychologists show. Shows educated 20 and 30 somethings most likely to be hit by a pre midlife crisis. Insecurities, disappointments, loneliness, depression. Quarter life quarter life currencies don't. Happen literally 1/4 of the way. Through your life, the occurrent quarter of your way. Through adulthood anyway, this new. Generalized anxiety, that sort of thing, not just you could say, well, there's been a recession. Maybe that's it. But apparently it's something like that. And this a couple of things here. Autism and asthma. UM? There was a study. This from the well. This in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Which came out yesterday study in South Korea suggests about one in 38 kids have traits of autism used to be. That was about one in a. 100, which was more. Then back just a few years ago it was thought there is. This the all enveloping thing, and everybody's been scrambling about this for some time, and what to do about that? What to on in terms of education or whatever? That's a big job and asthma. This a this a baffling one too. Last Wednesday, record numbers according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are suffering from asthma. And the error isn't that much worse. Well, there's . There have always been a lot of theories as to emotional well-being or emotional. Health, emotional triggers and asthma. Not just physiological connections, it has really jumped. The prevalence this the thing from staying the rates from 2001 to 2009. Has increased sharply among all demographic groups studied, including men, women, whites, blacks, Hispanics. And well, without going into detail, and they said we don't exactly know why the number is. Going up but. Well, it councils things you can try to do prevent preventive rise. So jumping right up. OK, I think we'll play a little what is it gonna be? The Turkish?

Speaker 2: Yeah, Clara music.

Speaker 3: Good stuff.

Speaker 2: Well, that ended suddenly. That's where it.

Speaker 3: It's happening.

Speaker 2: All putting our putting our headphones back got.

Speaker 3: Tooling our thumbs here.

Speaker 2: But we had amiibo from Dead Sea in Madison if Anarcho primitivism has to do with people's comfort within the system and what being involved in the system. Does and is? Why don't you talk more about what it would be to survive outside of society, or if it fell some way? Or is that too much speculation? Seems like. It's a cool new show.

Speaker 3: It seems like. It's one that we're cool.

Speaker 2: New show

Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, thank. You, oh I like that yeah, they're we don't. We don't usually go there. That's a good point. Well, the thing about reconnecting with the Earth about having some immediacy. Or a lot of immediacy rather than all the mediation. That's the open question. I mean, well, it's more than one question. First of all. It's whether people. Want that, I guess is one question. Also what it would be like? To somehow reconnect in that way and do. Well, that's why I think it's worth thinking about? What was what? Was it like without symbolic culture, even or getting a little closer to home? What is it like when people do have a direct relationship? With this planet, and implicitly with each other, I mean is that is it. Is it eternally satisfying to have less and less and less of it to? Have to have more layers between us and everything else so that there would be more that some synthetic and virtual and artificial? That's of course the racing course. So anyway, go back to your point. What is what would it be like? I mean. That's it's an open question and it I think the answer is.

Speaker 2: How far people want to go? How people, how far?

Speaker 3: Would the sense of health calling us. Be to go further or to go to someplace so far from from this disembodied place. You know, that's. I've written about it a little, but I think there's. You know you don't. I think there's I feel somewhat there's of. There's a sense you don't want to start laying down some. You're defining reality. You were somehow putting down some static utopia. That's that's to be avoided. If there's anything about postmodernism, there's that implied criticism. Which I think should be heated. And of course they use it to wipe out any thought of change. You know, it seems to me, but. You know, I. Don't know if the if. You have any thoughts on that but? It's so wide open. I mean we are so far away from it so. In thinking of going in that direction, I think we're starting up the. The thought process of what it would. Be like why it would be. Qualitatively, better if that's the conclusion we're reaching. I mean, I think about it, I mean. And we are. Was thinking about this in Tucson the. How we're all so domesticated? Certainly starting with me. You know, I’m so used to civilized life, domesticated life so it's not easy to really think bracket that out and go to a place where we wouldn't be in this orbit. Anyway, I don't know, that's just that's just something I think is worth thinking about and bringing up. And if you have any thoughts, you can share those. That'd be great, thanks. For the question. And then we got a phone call.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Scott on line OK Hey Scott.

Speaker 4: Hey man is this everybody? Yeah OK listen, I just jumped in the just jumped in. I came into my work areand turned turned on. The radio wasn't exactly sure with what you guys were talking about, but to my understanding you were talking about. Say if people wanted. How far would they be willing to? Take this, what do you call it? You know getting rid of government or whatever quick question you made a comment last time I tuned in regarding the Noam Chomsky deal. And you were a little disappointed in. What he had talked about. And how he had no real solutions for a lot of the issues that were at hand today. I'm not challenging you by any means, but I actually wonder you being a primitivist or should I say anarchist is the proper term. What would be some of your solutions I? I have been listening to you on and off. For a year. And I really haven't heard a lot. Of your solutions, what would you think? Would be solutions for a lot of the problems that we have today and what do you actually see when you take? When you take in the sense of, having no government or whatever what? What exactly is your vision? I guess I could just take my answer. Off the air.

Speaker 3: OK, well that’s a big mouthful. Thing to jump into, but I think, for example, these are the Noam Chomsky. He accepts all the Givens of mass society. While including mass society itself, industrialization, globalization, civilization, domestication and some of us have come to the conclusion that the roots of this crisis. Go way back. Progressively down through these various things, even down to reaching well, even past domestication to division of Labor and even symbolic culture as beginning the road of alienated life. And so. Is and especially looking for some help or even even a type of explanatory model that would account for the crisis we're in. In other words, it's not just an abstract thing you could lay out, but look at what's going on. Can you account? For it by just talking about capitalism, and I don't think so. I because the implication to framing it all in terms of capitalism as well. Then you want socialism, right? Well, no, because they're both parts of they're both taking place within assuming. So they're not getting at the roots of it at all, and I think as we just as it really does unfold and the reality becomes so strenuous upon us then. You know, I think people were just forced to think more deeply what. How did this take place with? And it's very frustrating to see some of these people do their best to block discussion of things that go more deeply. I mean, that's it in a general sense. In other words, we know. Here's an example of a good one. I think global. Warming the ecocidal warming that's going on is a function of industrialism. It started. Essentially. It started 200 years ago. That's when industrialization the factory. System industrial revolution. Mass society. Whatever you want to call it. Took off, so did global warming step by step. Each one is a measure of the other. Well, doesn't that tell you that you got to get rid of industrialization? I mean, that's a simplistic answer, but how do you get around it? You can have. You can talk about emission controls, but the more and more and more factories and cars there are, it doesn't matter if you increase the controls, you're multiplying the number of units that are producing the pollution. Wildly all over the world, so it's. Not, it's not going to. Contend with it. So and when we think about, for example, when we think about what is mass society, how it's the absence of community, how it's starting to display the most incredibly perverse aspects as it seems to be decomposing, it's harder and harder. It seems to me to just say, well, you gotta have mass society.

Speaker 2: Well, do you?

Speaker 3: You gotta have industrial life you gotta have this barren technical. You gotta have all this stuff that nobody's. Questioning yet. Well, not nobody, but, in the mainstream way, Chomsky and everybody else. It's not working, It’s becoming a nightmare. So . Then we begin the talk about where to go. I think the where to go is getting rid of that stuff. It's practically all contained and getting rid of it to, I think, to put it bluntly, you take it away. You get a healthy. Situation you got community. You got responsibility. The at least the chance for community. All that stuff . Otherwise you don't. We're just going downstream with everything listening and that's like a doom. Saying the end is near what it is? I mean It’s. It's not just the apocalyptic rhetoric. I mean, how many ways do you need to count it? I mean, if things were working out. If people were happy, we would be one thing, but what part of that is valid? Anyway, now the. Color and I didn't went around to talk about it, but that . I think that's a little. Bit of a part of the shorthand. Thing that occurs to people.

Speaker 4: That are.

Speaker 3: Identified as green anarchists or anarcho primitivist anti civilization and we do see more. People thinking along those lines getting to that same point. Of view and. More projects in that way not nearly enough. At this point, but. You know this new I mentioned this I started to mention this. I think once or twice this David Foster Wallace his posthumous novel, which has been put together. I mean, I don't know if it's exactly complete.

Speaker 2: No, no. What's the pale king the?

Speaker 3: Pale King, right right? And this maybe this relates. The more I read about this I haven't seen it yet, but I've read great number of reviews. You can't really get around it. The point is, It’s all about these IRS agents. In Peoria, IL, who are, I guess by dying of boredom, and I think it's obvious that this not just about some IRS. Accountants in Illinois. But it's about the whole society. How how empty it is innervated and we need all these greater levels of distractions. All the time, that's not a healthy society. It's obviously.

Speaker 2: Not yeah, thing by Jonathan Franzen. A few weeks ago, New Yorker was in wrote about it. He was in that one, ohh. Did you see that? It was a nice piece by Jonathan Franz and it was a long pretty long. Piece where he went to the island that inspired Robinson Crusoe and hung out there by himself and thought about his friend. Dave, because he was. He was pretty close. He was always yeah.

Speaker 3: With another key American novelist.

Speaker 2: It was a good piece.

Speaker 3: What did he come up with?

Speaker 2: It was depressing.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah, bored of sitting with.

Speaker 2: But no, but it was. Yeah, he. Did he got? He was pretty unprepared for the wilderness, as only. A writer can be different.

Speaker 3: Ah, I see. Ohhh Franson is a. Heck of a Reiner, yeah. Yeah no.

Speaker 2: But I thought he. I thought he put it together really well. The whole like the remote. Island setting and the the memory of David Foster Wallace. Well, good it was. It was a pretty good meditation.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a. Poem here from The New Yorker magazine that. I've buried myself.

Speaker 2: Is it the Facebook one?

UNKNOWN: That was a good one.

Speaker 3: Ohh that was a great one though thisn't thisn't humorous. I'm always thinking well, I'm not going to have enough stuff to get through the cubic yards of stuff that I don't get around to, but I did bring. Oh man, I thought I had an excellent poem. We'll have to. Wait, another thing well. I'm going to quote this. From a column, windows on the world. Richard Frank and Matteo pericoli. It's just a meditation. This somebody lives on Bruny Island in Australia. Just just looking out on things. In front 40 spotted. Pardalotes sport in the white gum trees. They live off the sugary secretions of the trees under leaves. But because of global warming, the white gums are dying of these tiny birds no bigger than the giant moths that come out at evening, fewer than 1000 remain a decade. They may be gone. The fences that once kept the fairy Penguins from nesting beneath the house are gone because the last of the Penguins failed to return six years ago. No one knows why. All that remains is a closed gate. Below our sandstone Bluffs and kelp racked beaches. Reeking of forbidden things gone too from the sea or the fish like the trevally and cod and trumpeter, no one can explain that either. Sometimes I dive in the shallow reefs here looking for words.

Speaker 2: We have another response from Nibo. No one really knows how we will get back to a primitive stage. It could come from anywhere. I think John enough for laying out the problems. It's not like I need John to give me the answers too.

UNKNOWN: Oh, Gee.

Speaker 2: I think we know that. Green capitalism solutions are not the ones that we. That we have to take though.

Speaker 3: Wow, mostly done, . Well, thanks to some comments we I don't want to forget action is let me go to this right now. Something last week I was I was seeing this on the I think the anarchist news. That are there were. There were a couple of people from France. Some of these invisible committee coming insurrection characters have noted for their insurrectos stuff, and last week there was a get together public thing in the Mission District in San Francisco. Like this whole insurrectionary thing came up in the discussion in Tucson Saturday night. I'm not going to go into all this stuff, including the course pages of snarky stuff back and forth, but I noticed that Caitlin Manning was the chairperson. I don't know exactly where she's at, but I said I. I think it's an open question and I consider myself insurrectionary and my friends and it's not like I'm hostile to it, but that I think. There's been a lack of transparency universal theme I've mentioned. Over and over. Here on the show. But anyway, Caitlin Manning is the chairperson. Kaitlin Manning is an old commie in the 80s and I lived there way back. They have big Sandinista who cares about the indigenous people. It's the revolution and just a. Ultra left Commie, kinda hip coming out the but when you come down to it if you were if you were native in Nicaragua, you probably wouldn't see the big difference anyway. And not. And again, I think like a lot of folks, they are not so straight up with the comedy part even less than they. Ever used to be? And some of the insurrectos have that same deal. They've been around the block. Caitlin ensures have been around the block. Quickly, it's not like, oh I never thought about it, or Oh well, we'll get there through struggle or whatever. No, no. Some of these people have an agenda. I don't think most of them do, but ooh, that Caitlin Manning name jumped out of me and it wasn't the. Only one anyway. Anybody was there can call in and inform us? If they like. OK, this came in. This just a. This a communicate that only now got here. This has to do with the bombing of the Inland Revenue offices in Greece. Thinking of the IRS which happened on March 23rd. Anyway, it was. They said in the past they had sent bullets to E. Cujas, the lawyer of the cop who murdered Alexis Guruguru Uplus and to printer Reese, a major sold out TV figure. And had also taken the responsibility for the bombing in the General Secretariat of the press back in January. They remembered the mainstream press took a little beating from some of these folks. It was a 12 page communique, but you already get the idea. That's that's who did it. It was very consciously political and. We've got. I'm trying to keep this in. Order Oh well, some stuff right around Mayday. Had just come in, this for example. Which doesn't necessarily have to do with maybe some of this coming into that category. There, but late April starting late April and early May. In cities, in Belgian cities, these cities were along Glen and Antwerp. Hundreds of cars have been attacked in the space of about a week in Antwerp. Hundreds of tires of SUV's were punctured, and our lone 61 cars. Were attacked plus rocks thrown at cops and. Joined in to the. Against the thing and a fire in Galin at a diotti dealership meant that 11 cars were incinerated by Molotov's who were tossed in there. You know, Carl likes the entire girls, the girl thing. And let's see. Oh, this this a mayday thing in Bogota Colombia people there was a there was a general Mayday March 10,000 protesters in downtown Bogota toward the end of that civil people. It doesn't say several according to several media people threw homemade explosive. Tear gas and rocks and buildings and police. Some 28 shopping centers along the route were damaged by violent protesters.

UNKNOWN: While the while

Speaker 3: The President of the country's biggest Socialist Party, polo Democratico, complained about the lack of professionalism of police who were unable to prevent to prevent vandalism and project. A majority of peaceful protesters. They were upset about that. Oh, and I forget the point of mentioning or one point mentioning the French visitors. They went into. Glen Cove. I think this was pretty recently. Going to Glen to the Glen Cove occupation today with the Frenchies going to somebody I know who's been a consistent supporter of the native folks there. Oh see Monday May 2nd day after Mayday. Last Monday, Chase Bank in Seattle was attacked and attacked in quotes. No details in support of the Asheville 11 and solidarity with other. Anarchist prisoners here and there. And on the night of Tuesday the 3rd. Oh, backtracking for second Mayday. This the Mayday thing and this got going in Barcelona couple of days before three days before with the blocking of some main highways into Barcelona. And I don't know too much about what happened in Barcelona every May 1st, but apparently this was major much stronger than in preceding few years damage all over the city, all kinds of. All kinds of writing and action May Day. And let's see on the night of Tuesday the 3rd moving into last week, three vans belonging to the Police Probation Office near Bristol were torched. You may remember. Comment on the riots and the eviction battle over a squat in a neighborhood of Bristol. And Wednesday, during the night of May 4th, OH is another one. Another Big Tree harvester machine. Was lit up in support of the Kimki forest using theavy rain as cover. 15 minutes later it exploded. Yeah, the this was destroyed part of the Eco campaign. To stop the. Clear cut of the huge Kim K. Forest all of the. Polite protests, legal and liberal stuff have done nothing, so it's they have to act. They're trying to. Yeah, they're trying to draw support and spread the resistance to people that are connected to these corporations. AMC Saturday the 7th, just last Saturday this. Buenos Aires in the early hours of Saturday may since we set fire to the carbon official of the offices of military production, he left his car, parked the entire weekend at the gates of the government agency. We have much fire and much to burn. We are drawing closer. We are transforming painto RAID signed La Caleta which means rain. Today, in homage of the name of Companera Patricia Hatteras, she was a suicide in custody. Recently in Barcelona it was done in her name in here. Last Thursday here in Eugene. There was a demonstration outside the new Seneca Seneca is a Big timber corporation sawmill. Outfit they have set up a. Seneca Sustainable Energy is a biomass when burning plants and just north of Eugene. Three people were arrested. For locking themselves down basically and today in Huntington Park, LA, hundreds of students walked out of class to produce to protest. The layoffs budget cuts blows to the education deal down in the Los Angeles Unified School District. I got a call today from Stan Taylor who teaches here in Eugene, so Speaking of local stuff at Lane Community College. Asked to come to talk to a class next Thursday and I was just thinking that we used to get invitations to speak at high schools and out at lane and that started drying up it. It is basically dried up and now this thing is coming on again. I don't know whether this. Improves any big upsurge. But anyway, it was nice to be happy to. Whether next Thursday, to get that two hours of discussion and the Ottawa thing, I know if I mentioned is not going to Ottawa in the fall, but going in April, a bigger.

Speaker 1: A bigger.

Speaker 3: As it's part of an arranged series of speakers and discussions, so be fun to. Take part in. It meanwhile, I spent time with my good friend Dan, who's always mocking me and vice versa. Anyway, I'm. Prisoner friend been in prison since the 70s? Speaking of mocking stuff he writes I got a letter from him today. Ottawa sounds like a good deal. Imagine you will get one hell of a welcome. I don't think it much entertainment in the northern territories. People in real countries get so jaded. Don't you think they'll let them pay you in any of that? Canadian money it doesn't even work in vending machines. Speaking of the twilight of the machines. Oh oh, you?

Speaker 2: Got some Meebo action going on here. We have Dan was writing in from the autumn voice against the wall. We've got, I guess they have they. They got some stuff that they need and they have information about it at their website. I think it's solidarity dash project.org. OMG yeah he wants to thank you for a lovely visit and stimulating talk.

Speaker 3: Oh nice, OK.

Speaker 2: We also had Cliff right in. After he's gonna save his Kevin Kelly Steffer when he comes down in. A couple of weeks.

Speaker 3: OK, very good.

Speaker 2: Alright, and what else do we have? We had Meebo guest 945705 who don't know if you saw the latest nafac magazines at Northeastern.

Speaker 3: Federation of anarcho communists.

Speaker 2: The communist, that's right. It's the green issue with a review of Lear Keith's book and an interview with an indoor fish farmer.

Speaker 3: Wow, the commies have discovered the environmental crisis, gosh?

Speaker 2: You sure have and Meebo guest 897584 says my relationship with you is mediated through the very technological system you oppose. Does that raise any ethical dilemmas? That's that's to the.

Speaker 3: Oh boy, that's the end. Of the show right? Do so. There you go, that’s the truth. That's one of those contradictions do. We have to get out. Now, oh, we gotta get it, OK? I won't, there's I did find The New Yorker. Thing but one just one. Last thing,, attached to the Action News. There's a book called. It's a long title, humble homes, simple shacks, cozy cottages, ramshackle retreats, funky forts, and this guy may be simpler. Just Derrick diedrichsen. Anyway, he tells you how for $200.00 you can make a house. I thought that was pretty cool. This anyway. Brick deep breaks.

Speaker 2: $200.00 payable directly to him.

Speaker 3: Well, he'll tell you how to do it scavenged.

Speaker 2: I'll tell you.

Speaker 3: Materials you won't know how to do it, we know. How to do that in Eugene, don't.

UNKNOWN: There you go.

Speaker 3: Need no fancy book. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1: I was too sick. To roll over and see him, but I could hear him singing so beautifully. Began to subside and so my background. Voice come down from the having the bull. Forceful enough from. The new one, the streaking it up.

UNKNOWN: Like it was.

Speaker 1: The middle of the day. Lay there quiet. Listen to what you have voice had. To say, he said. You ain't feeling good, man. Bad man, you can pretty bad. Lucky for you. This ain't your time. Someone very dear to me has made another clerical error and we're hearing. A bit of a wild goose. Chase, but I want to tell you a few. Things that who are you? In good stead. What it is you better listen close, so we're going to say this once. The old table. And keep your business clean. When they. They keep your business. Don't want no backstabbing? Ask grab, exactly what I mean. We're outta here. Oh God call you spoke French. Champion uncore Now the wind entered the night almost immediately. I felt better, and I'll run here to see you, boy, we ain't living right and. A lot of. The stress I won't tell you what. He told me. They all team. They keep their business.

05-03-2011

[audio]

Disfigured celebrations (e.g. upon Bin Laden's assassination, royal wedding). Takes on resistance: good, bad, and moronic. Tech news, May Day, cave art. ACTION reports. MEEBO interaction!

Speaker 1: And that's the same.

UNKNOWN: We haven't thought down.

Speaker 1: GTO where are uniform Atlanta government loans? Jobs or with the Netherlands? Just a muffin guy because I had him. Loving us more life.

Speaker 4: Mr. Shane, ?

Speaker 2: What he's gonna do?

Speaker 4: Give me a tiny chicken.

Speaker 5: I know.

Speaker 6: That's right, we got a lust for life here at KWV, a Eugene. It's now time for anarchy radio. I'm here in the studio with John. We're going to be talking about celebrations resistance and all kinds of other stuff, action, news and more. Number here is 5413460645 you can. Chat us up. On the Internet at kwvaradio.org in just about 30 seconds since I log in there. So yeah, we're going to. Start off with a little music from a CD called. Let the world die.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 1: That's fine. That's theadline. Yeah, that's it. Like could ram work?

Speaker 3: It's anarchy radio. It's May 3 and that was the marvelous group. Let the world die. Or is it the world? Should die, which one is it?

Speaker 6: I think it's let the world die.

Speaker 3: Let the world die OK, and the first time? Boy, lots of stuff has happened, but it seems like there's only one thing that's happened. If you haven't been under a rock for the last 48 hours. Yes, yes. Everything else is in eclipse. Because of the bin Laden deal and interesting thing I don't know, I don't. Know of course. The basic stuff is still blocked out in terms of what all that meant in the 1st place and what the World Trade tower is. Was all about and all those forbidden topics not in favor of religious fanatics killing people. Don't get me wrong, but I remember Ward Churchill commenting on. On certain policies and. The global capital and all the rest of it, directed from places like the World Trade Center. First, that isn't part of reality. That isn't part of what that was all about, whatsoever. But the yeah, Sunday night came the news. Let's see lots of women and children. No guards. Bin Laden was not armed well, this obviously just a straight up strike by an assassination unit of the Navy Seals which are home for that in different parts of the world. They carry out this type of thing, nothing quite so. Headline grabbing is this particular assassination, and there have been other celebrations referring to the celebration and this one other public ceremonies too whoops. lost. OK, it was in my head. Tuning it, but last Friday this a local deal. The traffic cop killed Cullen. Who was shot to death? Apparently by a woman who is very, very tweaked out on meth. That's seems to be the story. And that's sycosis story.

UNKNOWN: Oh, really.

Speaker 3: Well, it's whatever.

Speaker 6: Oh, I didn't I. I didn't hear that if there's the.

Speaker 3: On that and a history of mental disturbance and imbalance and.

Speaker 6: History of yeah.

Speaker 3: None mentioned the facilities as everybody knows. Anyway, that was about 10 days ago Friday and I talked to some people who were there a massive show of force for one thing. And who knows what the general vibe was? I mean, in other words, the people I talked to are not necessarily representative of anything, but I was struck by the comments of at least two people. The only two I talked to actually how the main deal was just this power thing, just this oppressive. You know cops from all over the states, even all all over this state in Washington and perhaps Idaho reservation police low flying helicopters just this mammoth overpowering thing. And one person even said the lesson he got between the lines. Was somebody's going to get killed for this cop doesn't get killed and it goes down. And in other words, very threatening to some people near me. And because the traffic cop. I mean, I've don't have a big thing against traffic cops and. And I know people have had encounters with this guy. Very nice guy. But anyway so. I what I don't like though, is this gigantic. Outpouring because of this personality. And sometimes we forget the basic role of cops in society. Enforcing the code of society and we forget. We tend to forget at times what is the character of the cop culture, for example magania. And Laura remember them. The years of abuse and rape and extortion of women. I think Laguna is still. Yeah he's still looked up. He's doing 99 years. Laura is already out, so yeah, it isn't all just sunny. Jim traffic cop. Nice guy. I mean, it's too bad about him, it is. But there's a little more to. The story than. That it's, I guess it's pretty clear and what was it? Friday or Saturday? The royal wedding. And that was gigantic. It seems so overpowered by the other thing though. On the next day. And of course the monarchy. There was only ceremonial itself and. It rains, but it doesn't roll. And the parasitic global anarchy and all that stuff, it strikes me if people want some sense of community or some solidarity, even if it's a weird, . Disfigured sort of thing, which I think there would probably be a case of it in, well, both of these cases in terms of people supporting this comp. Or, getting a vicarious thing from. From billionaires getting married in London or whatever it might be, and one more, let's not forget Pope John Paul over the weekend. Took another big step towards saying it. Very, very exciting. Very many thousands of people in Saint Peters Square. Yeah, he was he, the Pope, the Pope, the Pope, the Pope who spoke out against the little boys being ******** around the world by price. Oh no he wasn't no because nobody was doing that. But hey, saying that is. Is on the is on the way. And it's 5413460645. It's called checks the phones.

UNKNOWN: Is it working?

Speaker 3: Yeah mine mine right?

UNKNOWN: You know?

Speaker 3: What's that OK?

Speaker 6: Take them off 32nd. I'll tell you no, no you can put.

Speaker 3: Going to trade info.

Speaker 6: Them on in a minute.

Speaker 3: OK, so it doesn't blow.

Speaker 6: I'll let .

Speaker 3: Out my air pan it's.

Speaker 6: Going to blow out two years.

Speaker 3: Oh, Yikes. OK, I like the comforting sound of my own voice coming in. My ears. Getting lost in that.

UNKNOWN: I'll let .

Speaker 3: OK, he's on the job. Well, let's see. We had an ExxonMobil out of the week touting natural gas, and I was mentioning the toxicity. Above and below ground with the gold natural gas, which is pretty clean burning after all. Well the end of the week this week they win again. Exxon Mobil oil sands yes. Good for our energy security and our economy. Even more toxic and poisonous. I think by far than even the fracking business with the natural gas. And late last week, the news came in. Speaking of our good old Exxon. 11 billion, almost $11 billion profit for the first quarter.

UNKNOWN: On the newscast, after days of.

Speaker 3: Whoops anyway, and meanwhile at the same time. Yeah, that's just frosting people, of course, as guests and just inches up toward $4 a gallon average and. The Obama government has decided to exempt a $4 trillion a day derivative market from regulation. Yeah, don't need no regulation. Yeah, this Friday. What's the 5th and at the end of the week? It's and it snuck in. It didn't completely, but this should have been bigger. There's scandalous stuff now, and one more Obama thing here on Friday. This. Something that happened about a week ago, or maybe a little more. There was a fundraiser in San Francisco. For Obamat the Saint Regis and the I guess they rotate the coverage and so the San Francisco Chronicle the local morning paper there got to cover it. And they also covered some people who spent who paid collectively $76,000 to get into this. Fundraiser and then did some sort of a skin or a song. Which really annoyed these fat cats and Obamand so yeah. Well, now they're being threatened. By the way, that by the White House they may be blacklisted altogether from the from. The press pool. They weren't supposed to let anyone see that not everyone is a #3 Yeah wow. And I still think that what now? It's at least two weeks away. 2 weeks ago when Obama got the openness and transparency award at a closed closed gala close to the press for all of his wonderful openness.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 3: Oh, do we have sound?

Speaker 6: Yep, you're you are fully in.

Speaker 3: Oh sound. Control old boy oh boy Oh yes, this much better oh what a voice? OK, let's see and. Well and a lot of random stuff. You know what? I think I'm going to get to because. I'm going to enjoy this the most, I think. Who cares about all the shootings and all the collapsing ecology? What I think I'll dive right into get some very tasty. Takes on different people's ideas of what is radical and what is the problem. What is resistance all about? I'm going to get into a little bit. Of that and read. Something just posted and it will be in species. Trader #5 A marvelous piece in my opinion, by Kevin Tuck. About revolution and his conclusion that ain't the way we're going to get out of this mess that’s the old failed leftist version of things. Yeah well, one one of the one of thead of the hits and misses. This one of the. Misses that I have to. I need to. Start off with this, but I will. David Graeber posted something about a week ago, infoshop.org on the national deficit. How a government budget is not at all like say, a family budget. You'll find valid, but of course, what is the framework for? One of the basic assumptions there. I mean, it's not. It doesn't go any in any radical direction. So that's fine if they run a deficit, meaning the governments are fine and ten other unexamined assumptions involved. They're OK, somebody somebody called them on this. There was an interesting little back and forth in the blogosphere. And his response was basically, well, I’m not one of these sectarianarchists. I'm trying to engage non anarchists in discussion, so what's wrong with this topic and? And they're fully on you and everything so. But I thought the. I thought the good response was and I think this wrong, but in terms of people like Chomsky and even. Jensen, I'm afraid. Well, I'm just going to read this short response. There was anonymous posting from one person who was remaining. Anonymous and Graeber decided to go go with that. You know instead of responding to criticism after the guy for being honest so they response from this guy he said my name is Derek Davis. I live in Chicago. I'm in the phone. Hamburg now have just one question for you, dawg. In what way are the ideas you presented in this article? As it was written anymore, quote radical, let alone anarchist. Then what one might find in any mainstream left liberal publication? What do you say in this piece? Would lead any reader not familiar with your reputation to conclude that you are anything other than apologist for defender of the bureaucratic welfare state? You know, yeah, I don't think people should just let it go or you have a you have a declining level of discourse. You have this lowest common denominator. Slop or anybody can be anarchist, even if they're not even remotely. So and what they write in terms of Chomsky I've pointed this out before, why he's constantly in the International Socialist Review magazine, the biggest Trotskyist line in the country. You know, I'm not, I'm not. I never thought about it this way, but I'm just going to say it may sound like again as well. The end here I haven't written with. This in mind, but. I would be pretty certain there isn't one thing I have ever written that would pass muster with the Trotsky AUS not even one, whereas anything. Chomsky comes out with and ends up there. It seems like so doesn't that tell you something ? When is the price of admission? And the same goes for and same goes for Derek Jensen. You know we're not. This something that we're not playing with. Oh, and by the way, another little lead up, this more of a lead up for letting you have a little bit of Kevin Tucker. He's going to have a debate evidently soon with a syndicalist in Philadelphia. And he said he sent me some of this stuff and he said this debate is going to be hilarious. And this the guy who is arranging this quite reluctantly reminds me of the Andrew flood thing. Last year in Dublin and we started to get cold feet and went out of it. So anyway, this Nicholas, an unconscious person, is set to discuss things with the anarcho primitivist direct to Kevin Tucker. And so he says that part of his thing is, he says this. I have not the slightest conception of what production ISM. Presumably it is one of the literally insane conceptions which the primitivists wrapped their hostility to the project of human liberation. Whoa, Gee pal you ever heard of mass production? Ever heard of something that's based on that would be roughly protectionist, right? I mean, are you so ashamed of that you have to? Produce this lampoon of the word. I mean It’s obvious what it means, I mean. Anyone could even could guess at it without the slightest familiarity with any of. This dialogue. But it acts like it's just a lunatic. Thing . Oh, so that so then you're against mass production. You're against this whole. Industrialized deal, I guess something is in it, no. Well, no way he anyway he goes on to say we are willing to do this if a date works out, so he's already looking for the exit of the. But fundamentally we would debate conceptions of the future and the need for a politics of struggle and. Management that is a revolutionary politics rather than one of surrender. I should be clear that for us the purpose would not be to be to consider the merits of primitivism as it has none whatsoever. Rather, it would be to engage members of the audience who might have been attracted to primitivism by some sort of romantic impulse without having thought through the implications. So that should be lerious. Yeah, this guy's already very threatened. And yeah, I wish I could be there. But instead I'll be in Arizona starting tomorrow, going to get up way early. Really looking forward to seeing Dand other folks there in Tucson and also going up to. We're going to go up to Flagstaff and never went up there. It will be fun. Back early next week though, to do the show. And I don't know if Clifford is listening again, but he was going to do it with us. Last week Meebo Wise right, was he going to tell us if?

Speaker 6: He was going to. He was, but the night is still young. You could be listening right now we are streaming KWV radio ORGP.

Speaker 3: There you go.

Speaker 6: So we have Amiibo Amiibo interjection. We still need to get. A bell so I can Ding it whenever I like analog bell, can we? Can we ask purchasing to get a bell for us?

Speaker 3: I bet they would.

Speaker 6: OK, there was. There's a person Nebo. He was saying that quote that you're talking was from beckon not the organizer.

Speaker 3: That was John beckon. I've heard the name. Long term, oh, so that isn't the current guy in Philadelphia.

Speaker 6: That is what it's let's see. Also, it will that event will be at the grind courthouse in Philly.

Speaker 3: Do the date?

Speaker 6: There's another Meebo user who is asking if there is a date. For the event.

Speaker 4: Oh yes.

Speaker 6: Or if a date has not been set so we do not know, maybe Meebo Guest 730196 or.

Speaker 3: Hmm, well, Kevin might call, he said if he doesn't have to work late, he's gonna call see how proletarian he's ohhh.

Speaker 6: Let us know. OK, well we., this Kevin. I think this Kevin. It's hard to tell sometimes, so if you are me, Boeing and you don't want to log in because you don't have to log in, all I can see is that you're MBO guest 730196, and so if you want to let me know who you are or who you want me to call you, we can go that route.

Speaker 3: OK, and we'll get the breaking news, and it's only thing if we.

Speaker 6: All right, absolutely cool. Thanks everybody.

Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm going to read just a little bit. Tucker's explaining why revolutions fail. And the flip side is why indigenous resistance movements have withstood so much overtime. It gets into a lot of things. This the. The last Couple of paragraphs or so. This Joyce. I'm just going to read it.

Speaker 6: Kevin says the date is not set OK.

Speaker 3: Thank you Katie. Politics are intangible, wildness is not. Community is not. These are things that we feel live experience and connect to. Personally, there are no sales pitches or revolutionary cries that can take the place of our primal anarchy. The spirit of wildness embedded in our genes, gathering hunter and horticultural societies, and have continued their resistance. Because this something they know, something they are tied to. Community is not a political ideal. The food they have foraged and harvested is not an ideology written by newspapers. The primal anarchy of their societies lived out rather than spoken. They fight because of what they feel rather than what they think they know. But there is nothing unique about any of these societies past or present that is alien to us. Despite the lies of the civilizers, domestication has not changed who we are. It is right destruction upon Earth. But it is a constant and fragile process. Wellness continues to flourish in spite of the domesticating hand of the state. It creeps up through concrete, grows through foundations, overcome structures. And it resists our sedentary lifestyles. Whether we like it or not, and it is freeing, unlike the promises and hopes of revolution, the vague possibilities offered by insurrectionists wildness is tangible and available. It is something we can connect with here and now. The refusal of domestication is giving over to wildness, the unlearning of civilized interpretation. Through simple humility in the face of the simplicity of ecological sanity, what I call the primal war counters the failures of revolution. And giving up. On the left and riding the shackles. Reading the shackles of politics, the world awaits. And within that recognition through our own attempts to wield rewild and reform community life. The key to understanding that the revolutions fail because politics have failed us. Domestication and civilization have failed us in recognizing the lives of progress, the twilight of power makes itself apparent. We merely need to join with the earth in overcoming this plague. And if we look close enough, we will see that we merely need to. Follow its lead. Oh, that's the tasty ending to the essay in question and. Someday species Trader Five will. Arrive it's being worked on very much so. Let me read another thing too much reading perhaps, but I read the brief letter to the end. That I wrote last week, maybe? And I'm so pleased that somebody back to them here. Jason Gonzalez from Walton. It's a town West of here. Called under the tech he writes. I think it's fitting the Johnson's letter ran last week alongside those of Shannon Wilson and Don McQueen. Zorzi's point is irrefutable. Techno industry must be undone. It will be undone at some point. The only question is how much damage it will do first. Concerns like Wilson's continue to advocate techno based full screen mine reliant short term solutions like heat pumps and like macqueens concerned about the loss of capitalism and its potentially devastating impact that. May have on. Us few privileged humans who benefit from it. Bring us further away from a planet that can maintain life. There's no time for such useless, useless, and privileged debate. How many species need to die off for people to recognize that? How many rivers, oceans, lakes, and land areas will be declared dead zones before you stop worrying about heating your home and your ability to conduct business. Bravo, Jason.

Speaker 6: If Staten Island anarchist who wants to know if have you heard of so-called national anarchism sounds just as fascistic as national socialism. Keith Preston

Speaker 3: I don't know. The progress of that I know it's been around for a while and It’s a little bit of a more sophisticated NEO fascist move where it's not. It isn't very brutalized, and its approach, It’s very. It's rather insidious and. I don't know, I don't know where that's strong and particularly I know it shows up in Californiat times. Some people considered quite a threat because it is. It is pretty sophisto it makes use of some of our own phrases. And appeals. So their salesmanship. I guess you could say in this regard is improved, but I don't know. I don't far as I know it's doesn't have big legs. I mean it's not. It's not exactly huge, but I could be wrong.

Speaker 6: Staten Island points us to an article at New politics new poll.org that dissects that. It looks like new politics. Keith Prestons authoritarianti statism.

Speaker 3: OK, good.

Speaker 6: Anybody wants to? Read that.

Speaker 3: Good yeah, good resource. Sounds like checking out. I was reading about The Cave of Forgotten Dreams very herzogs new film.

Speaker 6: Have you seen it?

Speaker 3: No, I think it's just now being released. It's it was eager to rear access to the Chauvet Caves in southern France, the one of the most dazzling Late Paleolithic art cave art locations. And now they're being very careful about the breathing. This CO2 and light and everything, and then its impact possible. Will negative impact on the drawings on these panels? I don't know. What actually would cut my mind about this? This. 30,000 years old. It's among the very oldest art and I thought it was interesting that there's along the lines of this thing. The earliest chauvet paint. They date from between 32,000 to 30,000 before present and same usage now before present on BC. But they might not be that old. And this curious. I think in at least two ways. One is that looking at the literature the archaeology literature, especially it seems like everything is pushed back human capacities and achievements and. Skill levels and what have you. It's always being discovered that they had these **** whatever species the **** was had had these gifts and intelligence levels and so forth. This one that goes. The other way, and. You know, brings up the whole question of. The symbolic and. Wind is. When do symbolic artifacts become symbolic culture? It doesn't happen instantly, but relatively, it seems to. Happened pretty quickly, one upon the other. And I don't know what the. I don't know if that's true. But it seems. Like there's a lot of thought that maybe these aren't even that old. Really very striking. But so when you consider what people were able to do almost 2,000,000 years ago or so, and that's always. Likely to be pushed back. Coming with firing and a number of other things, this extremely recent and maybe even less old than than were thinking. Anyway, let's see. 5413460645. Oh, we're going to take a music break.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 5: In my blood. Sitting in a crowded apartment. About 110. All I had was a match in my hand. Now I wanted to bite what I said. And no one to see. And now know where to turn and run. All President Johnson's on the phone. The secretary said he was not. I've tried to get in touch, Mr Humphrey. He couldn't find him anywhere. I went into the court room with my. Poor blood. Didn't have no money, didn't have no lawyer, they wouldn't leave my case. I said I'll burn David. Don't want to see? Burn burn baby. I really want it you somebody. I really want it some scratch, I really want it to have a decent job now. All I had was the night.

Speaker 3: So Meebo tells us that Kevin Tucker is gonna weenie out. It sounds like he's just gonna wink on out. He's gonna cough. He's tired well.

Speaker 6: Now you realize he's gonna call it I'm gonna. Have to deal with it.

Speaker 4: Oh yes.

Speaker 6: With this abuse this abuse.

Speaker 3: Gee, well he. Got all that airtime and now he's. Just going to sit back and. Just leave her then.

Speaker 6: I don't want to get in between you guys.

Speaker 3: OK, well I want to go. Back to some news one as well. You know the Chernobyl thing, we just passed that anniversary of 25th anniversary. Well, there has been some more on that taking advantage of the anniversary perhaps. The fuel You know they covered. That thing and they made this giant concrete sarcophagus. Didn't exactly solve the whole deal though. I mean, you can't. Evidently you can't get at the bottom of the thing. It's not too radioactive, so the highly radioactive fuel can reach the underground water sources. And eventually Ukraine's main rivers. According to a recent. Well, from the National Ecological Center of Ukraine. Talking about how one stable light is. 25 years later. And in spite of the catastrophic consequences of Chernobyl, you can't. Ukraine's energy strategy, which is the current plan. It foresees a significant boost in mix over there with the construction of 22 million units. Why is policy and at the same time in Japan, what about that Fukushima tragedy? Well, the listen. I think it's was a brief headline. Was there maybe something like that? But the largest nuclear power facility in the world is slated for India. South of Mumbai, I mentioned that. Not so long ago, and there's resistance to that they've been. Yeah, there's there have been protests all around there by different groups and clashes with the cops. And they maintain that they'll have all kinds of safety standards. And another thing that's gotten eclipsed by the by the whole the one story. These these storms and I don't even know what the death, what the fatality number is now. But it was way over 300. The all these tornadoes storms. Killed hundreds in the South. Tries to regroup and why is this the biggest thing since 1925? Tornado records are broken and broken again. Big storms Bigger storms It obviously has to do with warming. Various people have pointed that out. The Gulf of Mexico waters. Are really warming up. I was amazed when I was there close to 10. Years ago how? Really hot the water seemed. Of Florida, but yeah, it makes 4 you've got. You've got this heated air and when it interacts with cold air, if so, frank there and so this. This accelerating both the number and the severity of these things and. And of course that's going in. One Direction, not a very sanguine direction, and a lot of news around here. A lot of attention around here. We could go Sunday up in Vancouver, WA just across the Columbia from Portland, OR. Father sent a fire that blew up his home, killing himself and five kids. His wife and one daughter were away at the time, another when his family massacre. Just a fairly local 1. That isn't. Thisn't going away either. Well, let's get to the tech stuff and that's an interesting stuff. Lots of recalls, lots of interesting things. There was there was the story about tracking location tracking. In terms of Apple and Facebook in terms of customers, iPhone android cell phones. And so yeah, people didn't realize that any time of the day and night wherever you are, they know where it is and guess why they're interested. There's at least two jamies well in terms of that whole. That tenant development and the deeper culture deeper technoculture stuff. Big story last week. Can you read this? It's cursive. A story in the times by Katie Zezima. About phasing out handwriting cursive training. In the various school districts around the world. Who needs to have any distinctive writing? You know, It’s. Yeah we all heard about that and it's it is indeed coming to pass. Well, we've got people though that will stick up for the whole thing no matter what the. Different traits and impacts in terms of attention span, and. Whether you ever read a book again your life and that's passe, that sort of thing. Long term thinking and deep thinking. Intentions, well, here's one this Sunday in the Sunday New York Times quality, time redefined, and it's all about this family. Whenever they're together, apparently they're each on their own device on their Twitter and their. Fully wired American living room often seems less like an Oasis for shared activity than intersection of data traffic. Why this might not be such a bad thing. Oh, of course, quality time redefined. The room is quiet, but everyone is communicating with each other, and that's to say that the yeah, it's like the night of the living dead students here. If you're if you're walking on campus and kids come pouring out of the between classes. They're just staring at their thing and there was something might have happened the last 50 minutes, some trivia, but and they'll run you right down if you're not looking. Yeah, let's see there was there was another one along those lines that I have here somewhere, OK? And I might find it and add there's another out of the week. Actually from Acer any CER. You know these big Intel? These big high tech companies? You have to sort of read the code or you wouldn't know from the name you wouldn't have any idea what to do. But anyway, they make the Iconia tab 500 which is a. Rich multimedia gaming and web experience. That you can enjoy on. Your own busy ultimate fun. That's the key. Ultimate fun stirring in a screen is of course, ultimate fun. And we've learned. It's an article called the voting attention to a child and. A phone all at once. You know you can have the tech dependency, you can well basically ignore your child, but if you have the right app. There's one called baby connect, for example. And it's more. It's not so much, is it OK? It's not so much listening. Or looking at or interacting with the child. But it's. Baby Connect is a comprehensive app for managing the baby's life, and Red Rover is similar tracks at Child's Play dates. Including times and. Baby connect is easily operated with one hand on the phone, so you can log items while holding a child. It's great, yes, quality time redefined. Not, not everything is occupied or colonized by the machine. No, no no. It just seems that way. Oh man, yeah I could just compile with an endless list, but something more edifying and uplifting is Action News. OK, we got some. We got some good. And some of this comes in a little late, and I think sometimes it's a question. Of translating articles. Or any number of things. But again, if some of the stuff isn't exactly up to date, It’s posted very very very recently, and in March more than 80,000 workers all over Brazil paralyze the work of quote progress in the form of. Hydroelectric plants, refineries, and thermoelectric generating facilities. This I wouldn't say unprecedented, but the way it's couched is interesting. Really revolt against progress. And pretty darn big. More than 80,000. All over the place, all kinds of these outfits. Now everybody's on board. It's quite a story, but I'm just going to have to just run. We have so much time left. Posted today in English. This happened almost a month ago. The night between April 6 and seven in Rome. Tired of seeing the earth destroyed, we decided to act. We entered one of the many construction sites in Rome. The city ranked by the cement and speculative building of the big manufacturers. With the complicity of the Little Fascist Mayor alemanno, they are destroying any space that is still somewhat wild. To construct malls and so forth parking lots. So they approach 7 machines. Bulldozers and others with wire cutters or gravel and sugar in the tanks, et cetera. Action and solidarity with all everywhere and an all time struggle against all of that. Indeed and Monday the 23rd. Of April and Rovereto in northern Italy. A wind repeater mast was set on fire and in solidarity with the green anarchists arrested recently in Bologna. The repeater. It's a cell phone tower. OK and also on Monday the 23rd. Two fur shops and a gas station were sabotaged. In Amsterdam, also in solidarity with prisoners in Bologna, this an EF Alf. Early last Wednesday, getting closer to now explosion and a gas pipeline in the northern Sinai. Cut supplies of natural gas from Egypt, hitting for Israel second time this year. Said to be sabotage. Quite an explosion. I don't know what the status of it is now, but it was serious rupture, disruption of service, Stokes Croft. Mentioned that last week. The reaction to the telepathic heights. Raid the raid on that squad in the neighborhood of Stokes Croft in Bristol. The writing erupted again, this Thursday last Thursday night. Fighting breaks out of the activist ghetto other people. Joining in. Pigs and horses charge right unit surges, tension goes deeper. Running battles with police right units all the way. Up to Cheltenham. Widespread disorder again, yeah, it wasn't just a one off thing and last Friday the new City Hall in Olympia, WA. Was damaged the plumbing in both the toilets by quick drying cement. In solidarity with the Haymarket antiques that was on the verge of the eve of Mayday. More or less. Killer Kings and burn their Kingdom signed anew. And on Sunday, this was Mayday. Very early, Sunday morning Boston anarchists broke out the windows at three upper crust pizzerias. Because of their exploiting exploitation of immigrant employees and number of. Treating these immigrant workers there, the high end pizza chain, upper crust pizzerias. 3 locations. Yeah, the apparently rich outfit. And during the night this also mayday in Birmingham, England. Three banks were targeted and there's. ATM screens keypads, soaked and paint and front doors were locked up. So that they can open on Monday morning and in northeast Paris in the a place which has been somewhat volatile and. Resistive place of Algerian folks and others who've have risen and revolted times there, in this case, 300 to Tunisians without papers without any residence permits. Who had made their way there and have been harassed by the. Police for quite a while occupying a city building. Yeah, and they've been holding assemblies there. This a place for self organization at the moment, and so we've taken the initiative. And Monday morning. Yesterday, actually in Buenos Aires. 3 different. Three different rapid transit stations were attacked. 8 carriages of commuter trains were burned. And apparently this somewhat coordinated because the. Security cameras were damaged right away. And we have different stations were ransacked and vending machines vandalized, or a deliberate active industrial sabotage. It was called. My son and I want to mention Glenn Clove. If you have Glenn Cove, excuse me in the North Bay of San Francisco Bay. Adjoining Vallejo as you leave the Bay Area going north and you're going through Vallejo. From Glen Cove. Has been occupied by the original inhabitants since April 15th, and there's this occupation. I've been reading about it. I'm beginning calls from somebody who's been there quite a lot, and there's a call out for intercom solidarity with the with this indigenous occupation. They are. The local governance has made it clear that they want to extend a park. Into an area which has been a burial ground and a ceremonial ground sacred to many native peoples. This along a land in general, the San Francisco Bay area. Others have been involved here. It's 85% native. Project apparently. And it's yeah, as soon as third week. And apparently there's a lot of strong commitment there. Well, and yeah, it's the flames of resistance against governments in Africa. They're well not only Africa, Burkina Faso in Africa. Yeah, other places, not just a few in North Africa. Not that's nothing, but it seems like every week more people and more countries are in the streets and in the Maldives this was announced yesterday that's. Island group near the southern tip of India. Yeah, different continent 3000 people there. Second straight night. This over the weekend demanding the ouster of Maldives President Mohamed Nasheed. Yeah, they've been fighting in the streets there. Oh, and just to just to shout on here regarding Tunisiand Egypt. Moment of insurrection. At a moment of insurrection is a is a blown by an excellent Canadianarchist who's been there. He just came. And he's got some fun on the spot analysis and observation. And see what else. Oh got a booklet by Leslie James Pickering. And I think you have to e-mail to get this. There wasn't any. Andrews he has a blog. He has a web. He has a web page. This a referring to a see. I think it's eight page booklet called Earth Liberation Front burns the street of dreams and I remember that one in Seattle. I think three years ago we had 2008. A bunch of new mansions 5 they were about to be occupied. They weren't occupied, but they were full. Furnaces giant tub. Buildings from the rich, completely destroyed by fire, three of them and two others were also damaged. You see that was March 3rd, 2008. A very nice treatment of what that was. All about.

Speaker 6: We got some Meebo stuff. My couple of Meebo questions we got, Mesolithic wants to know if there's any word on an English translation of Enrico Mccardie's book and also is the preface that you wrote available in English.

Speaker 3: OK. Yeah I could. I mean, of course I write in. Italian as well as English, but I could probably. Manage this in. It's quite brief, but this a real slow process. It's a big old fat book by Enrico Matricardi and a team that's been working on it, and I think they're about to show the. The intro in the first chapter to A to a prospective publisher, but it's not going to be in English for a while since it's slow. Work and it's. Mostly all volunteer work, I think.

Speaker 6: We also have somebody who may or may not be in Arizona who wants to know what your appearance states are going to be.

Speaker 3: I believe we're going up to Flagstaff on Thursday. Yeah, but it's I think it's going to be Thursday. I don't have the details.

Speaker 6: So it's the 5th.

Speaker 3: Right, right, the yeah tomorrow's just a travel datings and it's a weekend thing. The benefit. For Lenny, who's under threat of eviction. My tribal. These should we say, and it's benefit for her at Dry River, and I think that's Saturday night, but it might be Friday night. You could. Go to dry river. Our collective and yeah, I should have that, but that's about.

Speaker 6: All we know can they Google it?

Speaker 3: I think they could think they. Could Google driving Recollective in Tucson?

Speaker 6: That's it.

Speaker 3: OK, now here's that's about the end of. That stuff but Mayday. I'm just going. To throw this out, we're getting toward the. End a little learning humor. You know it's the union. Day it's the Labor Day. And everything like that. The Sunday, the 1st. And yeah, all kinds of people and I what I said about the Saint Nicholas. Guy Beck and the work that I can sit with. John Becker. Trying to make. This point before that I have been so grateful to have been able to go to Spain twice. Two of my trips to Spain were sponsored by Saint Nicholas, Spanish Saint Nicholas, who seem to have a little more openness and interest in. Discussing things and building this information. Anyway, there was a call out in San Francisco for the many March in San Francisco. Come celebrate past Labor victories won over capitalism. And March in solidarity with other class warriors. And then it says we're not telling you what to do, but we're respecting the tone of the rally out of solidarity with our undocumented and more vulnerable comrades. Which is like. Sign to stay on the sidewalk advice and I remember in 2000 when. A bunch of people from LA just before the Democratic Convention came up and we got that same thing that undocumented people might be rounded up. If the anarchists are riding the streets now, what is the connection there? What what would the. You know, I think there should be different concern for people without to status with our legal papers, but I don't think that means do nothing. I do not, and so this just a feel anyway, and what somebody wrote in terms of wondering what these past victories over. Capitalism were and that they were actually failures. Putting one person, I'm not sure how boring rehashing of Labor failures and glorification of work and toil will bring us any closer to life for that capitalism. Anyway, that's one point of view about that is. It's well, that's syndicalist and an American version of it anyway, I guess. And other people too. Well, well we're fading up we're running out of time it could be that Cliff will be here next week and I'm not sure I won't be back until Monday or Tuesday but I'll be back call me back.

Speaker 4: OK, great.

Speaker 3: Make it happen. Have a good week.

Speaker 4: They will take off the coat.

Speaker 2: Yeah, slow.

Speaker 5: They'll take off shoes.

Speaker 4: Yeah, take the shoes.

Speaker 5: They would take off the trail.

Speaker 2: Yes yes yes.

Speaker 4: You can leave your head. You can't leave your head. Roll over there. Turn on the light. All life. Come back here. Stand on this chair. That's right.

Speaker 5: Raise your yeah. Given the.

Speaker 2: Reason to give no reason to give no reason to.

Speaker 5: Fish is mad at talking.

Speaker 4: China tears apart.

Speaker 5: This my.

Speaker 2: Love is wrong. They don't know what love is. Love you.

Speaker 4: They don't.

Speaker 2: They don't know where love is.

04-26-2011

[audio]

Chernobyl, Columbine and other wonderful April anniversaries. The techno-totality and the techno-leash. Chomsky, ads of the week. Dominant system losing focus, legitimacy. Action reports. Fine call and MEEBO action.

04-19-2011

[audio]

Sweeney Todd. Bizarre weather. Latest zines, action reports and communiqués. Chomsky coming to campus and other lefty dunderheads. Two calls and MEEBOs.

04-12-2011

[audio]

Filmmaker Philippe Borrel on board. Trickster tales. Global follies, action reports, new zines. MEEBO action, a few questions for Philippe.

04-05-2011

[audio]

Albuquerque symposium. Rising sense of crisis, unreality of techno promises. Action news. "Happiness" reading. One call and some MEEBO messages.

03-29-2011

[audio]

News of a crazy world. Action reports, ads of the week. Chomsky is a Trotskyist. Jensen watch. High-tech culture: ever more unhealthy.

03-22-2011

[audio]

Kathan co-hosts. The Arab spring, ongoing Japan disaster, the direction of the anti-civ dialogue, high tech media. Six calls! Not enough time!

03-15-2011

[audio]

Cliff on the show. Wisconsin. Japan: one more disaster. High tech dis-ease. "Deep Green Resistance" vs. approach of ELF in Mexico. Three calls.

---

03-15.2011 Advertisements: Showing you go away. Tell you what I do, I'll watch out for you. Make yourself. Take your selfie easy. We all fall down. Tell you what. You're my woman. Now make yourself. When the shadows. Tell you what, I'll watch out for you. Make yourself, make yourself, make yourself.

The nurse with wound list was compiled in 1979 by the original nurse with wound trio. It was intended as an homage to the obscure artists which influenced the nurse with wound project. It has since become a Thai pub shopping list for collectors of outsider and avant-garde music. There are 294 artists on the. Just as of September of this year, Kwva zone Doctor, Nothing completed his collection of the list, and on November 5th will begin A6 month Epic Journey, playing one song by each, a thrussy every Friday night from 10 to midnight, only here on 88.1 FM kW. Hey Eugene.

Kwva, Eugene Campus Radio is student owned and operated. Broadcasting from the University of Oregon campus. The station is partly funded by underwriting some local businesses. If your business would like to support trade Ava through underwriting. You can contact the marketing department at 541-346-4091. To support KWVA through underwriting, call 541-346-4091. KWBA thanks to Greater Eugene area for all of their support.

Zerzan: Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of KWB, a Eugene, or anyone else.

Song: Up and take a look at your life. You're breathing down wrong. Now try to stop this train wreck ride well, you can step out all the little fires at your feet. But the hills are going go. The only fate of me. Insider the trembling child. Who knows the corner? All my well enough not and smile if words work as well as you thought. The muzzle would be on and all. Your enemies caught. And the truth. There's a change of heart when I'm training up the battles. And the truth is that there's a change of heart when I'm cleaning up the battle too. Row, row, row. Row, Row, Row, Row and our boat full of Buckeyes to those hills of Gold, Row, Row, Row, row.

Zerzan: Anarchy Radio for March 15th is off the ground. Carl and I are here. Sebastian isn't here, but Clifford is down. From Portland I made it. Down and Chase is sitting. We get sort of a full house. Catherine will be here next week. I want to say thank you for people that send news items and also do several people who weighed in about the deep green resistance. Issue or orientation. I think we're going to talk. About that A little it's 5413460645. If you can call in about anything, we're going to talk about Japan. I think for a bit, but first. Just a few. Random Insano news points. I wanted to mention Wisconsin the Great Showdown with the unions such as it was the people was elevating with the general strike and everything, and boy that came and went pretty fast with another defeat for. Unions and yet people said this, will reinvigorate the unions this this drubbing how does that reinvigorate anything I don't get? It, and I think the parallel is that the recession was the end of capitalism for various left. This, but it's called the capitalist business cycle. There's reunion, there's a recession. Maybe there's a reunion too, but I don't know.

Speaker 7: It could be.

Zerzan: But about every dozen years, you know, that's. It's not remarkable history. It's kind of well. Known meanwhile, Robert Gates. Defense Secretary Robert Gates he. Only about a week ago, he said we can't possibly and more or. Less said going to Iraq and Afghanistan is a hopeless journey. But on Saturday he rebuked the US allies like Germany, Poland, Canada, Netherlands that are pulling out. So maybe they heard the first part and the because they were planning on getting out and private first class Manning who allegedly. Made the big leaks to intern wiki. And he's been humiliated and more or less tortured. Forced to have no clothes, standard attention, but no clothes. Well, Obama thinks that's just dandy, and yeah, he said that's perfect, that's fine. Meanwhile, do you hear PJ Crowley? I just think this is amusing. The the State department guy. He called it ridiculous to treat prisoners that way. He was bounced in a heartbeat. Obama canned him so fast for for criticizing the humiliation of this of this guy in the stockyard OK, OK and one other thing I was mentioning the amazing figures on a number of cops being shot and it continues to more or less spike I think. Last Tuesday. Three cops were shot in Saint Louis, two of whom are dead. Over the weekend in New York, there were two different police fatalities within hours of each other. Today I think this is today, or at least in the past 24 hours. A shootout at a salvage yard in Southwest Virginia. Two cops dead. So yeah, that was just we just seeing the the upswing on that and. Then the other side of everyday life, if you will very early this morning, triple murder suicide in Tarpon Springs, FL. And all these things might be contributing. I don't know if they are or not, but. This was announced today. That confidence in U.S. government institutions has dropped to its lowest point. They started measuring this somehow in 1974. Only 26% of Americans. Our feel good about our system of government and how well it works down seven points since October. The lowest of the low, I guess it. Keeps going down. That's encouraging, sure is. Yeah, it rots away. The trust, the faith, or whatever it is. And here's what I thought of Carl. Was this one? 4.2 grams of cocaine found today. That would be that part of. It oh, come on. No, no, I don't want to get you in trouble.

Speaker 8: That's where I left it.

Zerzan: No, this is just the 5th part. Now I didn't mean it that way. 4.2 grams. Of cocaine at the NASA Space Center in Houston.

Speaker 8: Heard it was 55 OK.

Zerzan: Couldn't couldn't possibly meet a problem like you're famous. Couldn't possibly go wrong here and get into the rocket design by some coked out engineer. Yeah, yeah.

Zerzan: And then there was funny scammed. Bigger scandal is the mega industrial reality of it all? Not not with how much cocaine there is that NASA.

Speaker 7: 's got to got to find an alternative fuel source of.

Zerzan: Yeah, get things going.

Speaker 7: At least for people like.

Zerzan: Well, Japan, I mean this is. I got a couple of quotes. Yeah, these quotes are incredible. There was an editorial MSNBC guy named Martin Bashir yesterday. He said very simply, Japan lives humbly with Mother Nature. I see you had all those nuclear plants and all the rest of the yeah. That's pretty humbly. Getting down with Mother Nature, but the general thing I mean now we're of course at the moment here Tuesday evening on the 15th, the four of the six reactors at this nuclear facility in northeast Japan are are going downhill fast. It's already more serious than three Mile Island. 79 and lots of predictions. Or you know, bad worst scenario things about Chernobyl of 86. It could, I guess mainly because there's so many more people nearby. Chernobyl was somewhat remote. It was horrible, but there were not so many people nearby. Of course, Obama is still strongly pro nukes. He's making that clear. That's a good idea. You know what I get? This is a New York Times piece here. The best laid plans. This is from the Sunday New York Times. John Schwartz, you know. And this is this, is really before the next thing got going. I must admit here, but. Basically, says technology can only do so much. You know, preparedness you know well, I heard.

Speaker 7: This from someone else, but the same kind of approach to it and you can't try to build everything. Did you see that? Are these catastrophic? Is that where this is going like you can't? So yeah.

Zerzan: Yeah, it only works so far. I mean it's not perfect.

Speaker 7: Right?

Zerzan: It's not perfect.

Speaker 7: Right?

Zerzan: Of course, the the reality is. It it only works so far in killing the whole planet. I mean it's the General March of Technology that we're talking about and all these little Band-aids they try to perfect those we're not supposed to notice that the the monstrous reality of of all of it. I mean, when you have an earthquake and a tsunami. Of course these are natural events, but you've got people trapped in factories. Cars, rapid transit systems and all the rest. That's the technology that's where they're at.

Speaker 1: Right?

Zerzan: That's where they're dying by the thousands. Right?

Speaker 7: There we built there a huge tomb. Yeah, I think we've talked about this, both us both on the Earth together and I, you know, there was a I have to say that. I'm on Facebook and one of my friends on Facebook. Had a link to something about the real heroes of this are the engineers who built all this stuff to withstand? The the the devastation that could have happened. It could have been worse. Well, OK, I guess you can look at it that way, but you can also not build all that stuff and cram as many people as you can into it and then.

Speaker 3: Right?

Speaker 7: Invite the situation on yourself.

Zerzan: Yeah, they're trapped in the tomb as you said. And you know, I was thinking of very naturally, and it did come up. I think here and there and the media stuff at the end of 2004 the great Big South Asian tsunami in Indonesia. And the salient fact that that among the dead. Species, including human species, none of none of them were, or all of them were domesticated. The people that died and the other species that died. Conversely, none of the non domesticated. Animals and tribal people and so forth that died I. Mean it's remarkable that's just incredible.

Speaker 7: Yeah I I remember hearing a story about that when that when the earthquake happened there in 2004 that the indigenous tribes sought higher ground. Not. I don't think they necessarily knew this lunami was coming, but. They thought it was a warning that something was going to happen and so they went to the room where you have people like fishermen or anyone who was out there and saw the I remember hearing about this too.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7: Is that the the sea receded and they saw the fish out there and so they ran out there to to get the fish because they were just there. And then you know 20 minutes later or whatever. Where they got completely wiped out by the tsunami that came.

Zerzan: In and I think it's fair to say might get some Flack about this, but the more advanced the techno industrial level of the society is, the more domesticated the people are.

Speaker 2: Right?

Zerzan: I mean, I think that holds true from Japan, the most one of the most the very most wired. Techno countries and techno culture. But here's the Glenn Beck quote. This is really some. This is yesterday on Glenn Beck's radio show. This is a quote. I'll tell you this, whether you call it Gaia and that strange big looking guy, or whether you call it Jesus, there's a message being sent and that is, hey, you know that stuff we're doing not really working out real well. Maybe we should stop doing some of it. Is it your primitivist or what? Is that amazing? I mean.

Speaker 7: Good yeah yeah.

Zerzan: I mean, seriously, I.

Speaker 7: Mean we could be that or he's talking about homosexuality.

Speaker 9: Yeah, atheists.

Zerzan: Doing some of that right? We're sinning too much, yeah?

Speaker 2: Right, right?

Zerzan: Well, this well. No, no, he's approved. But I mean it's it's are we seeing a rehearsal of the of the bigger collapse here and and it it is something deeper and more general than just the nits? As if that if something could be worse than that, I'm not sure, but I mean, you know there's a there's this. There's this movement of all of this, and how many more disasters does it take to delegitimize all this? You know how many, what more evidence and the way it keeps piling? It seems to be doing that in rapid order.

Speaker 7: Sure, I mean they're they're building a civilization that is attempting to control the forces of nature, and when it gets out of their control, it's just keeps right. Raising the stakes of how bad the devastation the catastrophe is going to be because of the of the amount of control that has been attempted. Like nuclear power and all these huge high rises. Cramming people into all these small quarters and and something goes wrong. And now everybody is affected.

Zerzan: Yeah, it's also interconnected, and of course it is global as well. It's just a. The vulnerability. Is you know it's this whole unitary system and let's see this is from last Thursday from the Independent newspaper the Independent in the UK. That the just another sign, I guess the decline of honey bees. The colony collapse disorder is it's called insecticides air pollution, and that's a global thing so. It's reporting that it isn't just Europe and the US where the where the bees are disappearing. It's also China. Japan first signs of African collapse from Egypt and. This is part of the part of this report. Human beings have fabricated the illusion that in the 21st century they have the technological prowess to be independent of nature. These underline the reality that we are more not less dependent on nature's services. In a world of close to 7 billion people going to underline what you just said, I think. Well, 5413460645. We had a number of calls last week about a certain issue. Which I think we'll get into. Got some techno stuff and you know your you and Carl know your stuff about this.

Speaker 7: Yeah, like I enjoy techno stuff.

Zerzan: You guys know something about it too. This is a piece. Mickey Meese writing about how. Of the Technosphere encompasses work. There's a palpable sense that home has invaded work and work has invaded home. And how little time we have to concentrate and reflect on the meaning of any of it, that kind of thing. This is this is 1. Where does this come from? The article is called Family Trades temper tantrum for iPad by Elizabeth Armstrong Moore, who writes for Wired and this is. I mean this is a growing phenomenon, it's another. Sad thing that's really mounting in its scope, and that is autism. And there she's writing about a family with a 3 year old boy who is autistic. They gave him an iPad. And and things went wonderfully. But as I read this thing, the it's the point seemed to me is. He's wonderfully relating to machine, but I mean is that is that the outcome you really want? I mean is that the is that. I don't know how is that helping with the autism. It's that's kind of the definition of autism. In a way you know you.

Speaker 7: Right stemming like yeah they call that kind of really yeah stemming is when you you get really stuck on one. I don't know what do you want to call it. One process, one activity.

Zerzan: Oh, I see.

Speaker 7: And so I mean, you can do multiple things with your iPad, but everything's mediated.

Speaker 1: I see.

Speaker 7: Through the iPad. So you're, you're stemming on your iPad. Yeah, I had a an interesting about a year ago. I went to dinner with my family and we were eating. It's kind of a quiet restaurant and behind us there was a family that had the iPod. Touch and on the iPod touch. They had cartoons playing for the two kids at the at the table and it felt like OK. Here's the babysitter for the two kids at the table. So so Mommy and Daddy can have some time together, but it's like it's a family event and. You're out at dinner together and you bring the iPod touch to play these movies so you don't have or the cartoon so you don't have to interact with your own children. And on top of that, you know we're sitting right behind them and you just hear this thing going the whole time. And it's. Distracting, so it's.

Zerzan: Oh yeah, jeez, yeah, that seems. Quite related, somebody's called. Yeah, this is.

Speaker 8: Dane from Madison he called last week and then he couldn't call back.

Zerzan: So oh good, thanks for calling back, Dan.

Speaker 8: Call him back now.

Speaker 9: Hey John, hey how's it? Going good. Hey, I'm just calling to from Madison, WI. I'm part of the Madison. Info shop here. And I wanted to call to say that that you, I think 2 weeks ago we had a call from somebody from Madison. To give an update about the. Whole quasi rebellion going on at the state capital.

Speaker 8: Right?

Zerzan: Yeah, raise some questions.

Speaker 9: Yeah, and now you guys kind of talked. About the critique of unionism and so forth. Yeah, I just wanted to mention that yeah, actually we had a we had a little info shop. We set up a little mini library within. The capital building. When it was kind of club. Occupied and actually had a bunch of your literature out. The one article of trade unionism our social.

Speaker 7: Oh uh-huh.

Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, and I wanted to like throw we threw that stuff out because we wanted to, you know, grab. People with the we had some pro union stuff. Stuff about like you know, capitalism, very general stuff, but definitely doing some of that had a couple of issues. Green anarchy had to. He broke running on.

Zerzan: Oh nice.

Speaker 10: So I just.

Speaker 9: I just want to mention that that we have to do and within the whole issue of Madison, WI and other issues like that with the unions we doing. Kind of a critique of unionism itself and even work.

Zerzan: Ah, well, even that great literature didn't cause the revolution, I guess, unfortunately.

Speaker 9: Yeah it didn't. Dawn of it went all that well over some people looked at and kind of frowned unfortunately, but maybe you'll slowly seep in like a critique of work itself, and at the very least critique of the the trade unions and their bureaucratic aspect.

Zerzan: Uh-huh yeah. You know, just getting some stuff from India, the group there? That's very anti work. This is this coalition against civilization and work. And they they've been focusing more on that lately, the. To trying to. Work on a culture of anti work.

Speaker 9: Against civilization, you had that guess like. Maybe three months? Ago I forgot.

Zerzan: Yes yes devaraj.

Speaker 9: That was, yeah, that was a very good I. Like that a. Lot that was cool to hear it from that aspect. It's, you know, it's usually been. So far I think any type. Of work has come from like the. First world. Kind of a Eurocentric viewpoint, and that's good to hear from. Like a person of color from like the other.

Zerzan: Yeah, that was wasn't that great he was he just yeah that stood out and. Before to hear that.

Zerzan: Yeah, it's no wonder you recall that. Yeah, it's wonderful to still be. In touch with him. By the way, hoping to go back to India this fall I've I've just been in touch with some of those folks just since Sunday. And maybe working on a trip trip. #3 and. In November, we'll see.

Speaker 9: That's cool, yeah, and yeah, I just wanted to bring up a couple of issues I didn't want to take too much time though. I really appreciate the critique of Lear, Keith. My last episode. That was, I think, very much needed because her book vegetarian. This is definitely not. I would not consider that within the frame. Of civilization critique at all because it's very much pro agriculture. It's throughout the book. She cites the Western Western a price foundation, which is a very pro agriculture pro. Domestication think tank I guess. You could call it. And they kind of. Like even though they advocate like. Organic quasi like biodynamic. Viewpoints of agriculture. It's still within the viewpoint that agriculture is a good thing. We just need to like, decentralize it, localize it. You know to have your. Domesticated cows for meats. Domesticated animals for chicken and not get for eggs and cheese, so it's unusual that she would be considered within the milieu of anti civilization when she's very much pro agriculture. It's almost like maybe a radical Michael Pollan or something like that.

Zerzan: Oh, I see, that's all the further it.

Speaker 9: Yeah, it's very unusual. Like I saw the documentary nsiv The one with uh by Frank Lopez, and he's a I really like that guy Frankie Lopez, but and I like the documentary a lot as far as they. You know trying to understand. The ecological crisis, the the crisis of what? Nature was going on in nature. But it was a very I think it was kind of like not determined and show you something besides ensive as the. Title feel like like. You had you had a? Uh, who's a professor at Fresno State? Michael Buckner I.

Zerzan: Becker, yes.

Speaker 9: Think yeah, like those and like the also the one guy his name kind of critiquing the nonviolence. How it kind of protects the states. I like those aspects a lot. And I mean, I think made the documentary A worthwhile documentary to see. But just like Lear, Keith like understanding what civilization is and so forth, kind of like. Modeled it, I would say because I. And also I like I I really like Derek Jensen. A lot. He's like a like a wonderful writer. But I sometimes wonder. Understanding of domestication is.

Zerzan: He doesn't. He doesn't really talk about this and maybe that's why I don't know. Maybe that's one factor and this that the crew seems to have kind of wandered away from the sieve part. You know, I think. That's maybe that's what I'm hearing. You say about nsiv and really well made film. And I love Frank Lopez. Wonderful person, but I was dissatisfied. It wasn't very. It wasn't very in sip. It wasn't much sip to it and it was less and less. As you go. Through the film, I mean it's just. That's what. It is. Yeah, you know so why call it nsiv?

Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think from my understand about Frank Lopez like he has his sub but I forgot. Called out Subliminal Media YouTube channel. He used to be a producer for democracy. Now I believe back maybe like four years ago. So it kind of. Shows that like he's going in. That direction I could say. But still, he's kind of captured in that straightforward leftist understanding of the ecological crisis. Based trying to trying to grasp the hold. Kinda, you know primitivist Green Attic is what we call it viewpoint of civilization. I think he's still held in there pretty tightly by the.

Zerzan: That sounds that sounds right. Yeah, that makes sense that would. That would account for it, you know. I think he was perhaps even evolving as he was working on the film. I mean, for one thing it was going to be 100% Derek Jensen, but it it kind of included other stuff but. Yeah, I think it fell a little short of the focusing on civilization and why what it is and why we must end it it. You know it ends up talking about corporatism and you know. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: Or more like change SIV yeah.

Zerzan: Same service there you go.

Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, yeah. Reform siv.

Speaker 7: All right, well yeah.

Speaker 9: I think guess we define the tagline we can just perform. Civilization doesn't. Now we can probably just handle, you know, handle for another couple of 100 years maybe or something.

Zerzan: Yeah, you know, come on, let's not be so doctrinaire about it. So ideological as some people say.

Speaker 9: Yeah, and then the this. Philosophical kind of underpinning. We're definitely missing. Is like I. Do wish if someone was to make a documentary about civilization critique. They definitely showing some like Lewis Mumford understanding of like the you know, challenging what time is like you know you do. Also I really like. The historical understanding of like challenge like the whole like how it slowly came about like Lewis Mumford the Jackal. Other writing like that, Freddy Perlman. I just like that how it slowly. Kind of, you know became this philosophy. Of challenging thing by thing like time, work and then eventually became this all-encompassing challenge of civilization. I really like that and I hope someone is eventually going to do. A documentary of that stuff.

Zerzan: I bet that's right. They'll probably be various projects, film or video projects, and there may be there may be some in the works right now. I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be out more of.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fine.

Zerzan: That rather than kind of watered things down. Well, thank you Dan, that's really appreciate your poem.

Speaker 9: Hey thanks yeah. Unfortunately I can't hear the radio right now I'm at work so it's what they call in to say is that I appreciate the show and especially last week's episode was a good challenge for people to see the kind of like the one caller. Nate was kind of justifying the authoritarian approach I believe in.

Zerzan: He was trying.

Speaker 9: Yeah, totally.

Zerzan: Yeah, well you can you can catch it. It'll be archived by tomorrow or so you know on my website.

Speaker 8: OK, definitely good, thanks. I hope you're getting paid for this.

Speaker 9: Well, I might I might be. I might be so. John, if you can send the. Check by tomorrow. No, no, I definitely appreciate the show and just the whole. Aspect of it all.

Zerzan: Thanks much.

Speaker 9: OK, you have a good day.

Zerzan: You too. Well, that was a paid.

Speaker 8: I hope so. And add.

Speaker 8: I hope it wasn't on break or something that was.

Speaker 7: Good, here comes another one. Your turn Cliff my turn oh. Well I just. No, I mean.

Zerzan: For the call. Oh, if if yeah, we're maybe we're. Yeah, we do have another call. I guess we'll have to. Take a break after this call.

Speaker 8: It's Michael, Michael. Hey, how about turning them up?

Speaker 7: Yeah, we can hear you now.

Speaker 10: OK, cool. What's happening to John?

Zerzan: Doing good doing good.

Speaker 10: I want to address the last call. Yeah, I you know I have to disagree. I think that I don't think that in SIV is is reform SIV I it's not called anti SIV and it's not really. I don't think it's meant to be a a deep seated. Philosophical breakdown of everything that civilization is, but it shows, you know, in a short amount of time, pretty hard hitting aspects of the extremes of the industrial civilization. Especially it doesn't really address a lot of the issues of domestication and things that that that we talk about or go into, but. But I think it's a pretty pretty baseline hard hitting critique for for the audience that it's that it's hitting towards, you know, having shown it many times on on our last tour, I saw the effect that it had on people and it really got discussion moving a lot more. Then then a lot of the other. You know a lot. More than just the the the Derek Jensen books did. Obviously man, I think it it's doing no small part to the amount of indigenous voices in the film, but I think it was a. I think it was a great hard hitting critique of of some base elements of civilization.

Speaker 7: Yeah, my my goal. This is Cliff and I know I'm the one who made who made that comment that maybe it should be changed to change that, but I was just basing that off. What what Dane called in with? I actually haven't seen the film, but John can. John can maybe talk more about it.

Zerzan: Well, I I. I don't know. I mean, doesn't everybody know about tar sands and you can show all the clear cuts? I mean that's that's kind of. That's not a critique, that's just. That's what.

Speaker 10: Yeah, exactly I I don't. Yeah, I don't think it's.

Zerzan: Well, so where's the critique?

Speaker 10: A but. No, I don't. I like I said I don't think it's it's a deep seated critique of of civilization, but it does. And you know, unfortunately, a lot of people don't know. About the tar sands. And you know, I'm not, I'm not, I don't. I'm not a fan of the jumping on board of Wake up the masses and if you give them the information, they'll they'll change their mind and jump on board on the fight. I don't definitely don't believe in that, but I but I do think that a lot of people. Are seeing things. That they've never seen. Before, when they see this film, you know most of our generation. The younger generation out there. Like it's a very specific audience, that is, that is Privy to this information.

Zerzan: Well, it's the same audience that comes.

Speaker 10: I don't think it's a wise thing.

Zerzan: It's the same audience that comes to see the film, though. I mean if if this was, I mean, that's right. I mean, do you think anybody who shows up for that doesn't know this stuff? I mean, that's that is a small slice of the population, of course. But you know, that's not new to people that would come to see the film. I don't think. And there's no.

Speaker 10: I think that that some of the people that are seeing things that they that they've never seen before on film, they're seeing a really hard hitting critique of pacifism and of. Of not, you know of the nonviolent crowd. I mean wet, the showing in Eugene. You saw that there was a a large crowd of people of social peace and justice, yeah, crowd at that, showing alone and and you know, I think that it it did it it does. It ****** people off, you know.

Zerzan: Yeah, that's that's fine. They think that that was maybe over long, but yeah, that's quite good. We shouldn't forget that. And because what are you? What is your approach? And yeah, there's a lot of you know there are a lot of liberals and so forth who. It's anathema to not be, and to not be nonviolent. But if you leave out domestication, if you leave out domestication entirely, it's not a critique of civilization, most basically.

Speaker 10: Yeah, because I. I absolutely agree with that.

Zerzan: Would say.

Speaker 10: I absolutely agree with that. But I still think it's it's a wonderful film and you know it it did. I did have some points that that you know that I that I would do differently or definitely points that you would do differently or or a.

Speaker 2: Lot of people.

Speaker 10: Would differently but but I think it did fill fill a space that that that was that was needed to be filled and hopefully his his next. Project that he's doing is going to. Extend deeper into it. I don't think that he's necessarily too friendly with with these ideas that's coming out from the DGR.

Zerzan: Yeah, no, we'll see.

Speaker 10: Or whatever.

Zerzan: Yeah, we'll we'll find out. It's yeah OK we got to move along. Thanks for. Calling Michael great.

Speaker 10: Yeah yeah, yeah bye.

Zerzan: Have a good trip. Well, we take a little break now I. Guess OK, be back soon.

Speaker 3: But the.

Speaker 1: *** ***** in the street. It's not your fault.

Zerzan: Interview Radio is an editorial collage made-up of the voices of guests, callers and its host John Zerzan. The opinions expressed are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of KWV, a Eugene, or anyone else. Hello there. Well, I'm going to squeeze in. One more thing, got tons of stuff, but this well now part. This for now that the the calls kind of segued into this almost unavoidably given last week's show. So, and anyway, I'm certainly talking about the reference. Last week was the workshop here at Elaw 10 days ago. The Archies talking about deep green resistance. And you know, I'm going to throw out a couple of things. This is just to add on to and. And please feel free to call. This is the whole point and. This is from Dan Todd in Arizona, part of a message to Frank we were talking about Mr Lopez here. This and of course it. This bleeds into the. The well anyway, I'm just going to mention. What he said after viewing the YouTube vid of of her workshop, Leo Keith talked with Ivo. Contained remarks were patently odious and disgusting. Our critique of individualism as adolescent impulsiveness was unconvincing itself. If I thought. But do we need to return to the Lenin, the 70s armed struggle mode of an underground organization with the hierarchical command structure in order to show we're serious or at least solemn? One reason I dump on this. He calls it pea green resistance is that these people make themselves so dramatic in their calls for. Dot dot dot more discipline more unity. More of what works so well for the Baader Meinhof gang A. I don't think so. Anyway, it that's that's kind of the that's kind of the heart of it. And mentions like so many people just recently have. In closing, let me just say that I'm very leery of people calling for armed attacks on infrastructure. On the one hand and collaborating with members of law enforcement on the other as Keith in particular seems. Happy to do. And Andy said. If you're anti SIV, how can you? Give a talk that quote absolutely misses the most basic analysis of power. In other words, you know the the point is there? How can you be a authoritarian and be anti civilization? How does that work?

Speaker 7: Yeah, I've just finished watching the the Elaw conference last night from YouTube and I just made a few notes and I picked out some of. I wrote down some of. The quotes I thought they were. Kind of pertinent to this discussion, and one of the first things that I remember we are saying was throughout history you have the culture of resistance that builds the new institutions that will be prepared to take over when the old system comes down, so it's. Already you're institutionalizing some form of power. I mean, you're getting ready to make a transition of. Of power and I don't see how that. Coincides with the with a anti civilization critique.

Zerzan: And I think to those who say, well, we need something that's somewhat hierarchical and authoritarian to combat the efficiency of the hierarchical. Militarized enemy we face. Well, there is another model that's, well, I don't know if I should use the word model and I didn't get to any Action News last week, but. Here's one from Bite Back magazine called Ecotage at Field Research Center. This is from Mexico Earth Liberation Front. An arson or rather 4 arsons at the Mexican Valley experimental field in. Texcoco Mexico state. And they they spell out what they did and why they did it. And they talk about their imprisoned anti civilization comrades. And they're and they explain, and I think they explain they not only show what what they and it starts with what they did, but it also gets into this gets into critique if you ask me. They say, and I won't read this whole communique when I have time, but the act was symbolic, act directed at Science and technology. The reality we live in must be negated in its totality, and so they this was an attack on the federal government institution responsible for forestry research and biotech. And they talk about how they try to sell this kind of project, biotech and all that. It has these benefits and so forth, but they point out. That that have a greater impact and are more unacceptable than the benefits, namely the artificial lization and domination of wild nature. Especially of potentially free beings, including human beings. Plus the denial of the necessary autonomy for free human self-determination. So that's why they're against these new technologies. Our proposal is to negate the artificial reality that civilization has constructed, not indirectly, but by seeking a way of life that doesn't involve domination. The most autonomous way of life possible within wild ecosystems and without intermediaries, especially those that are mere deceptions like science and modern. Dominating technology. Yeah, and this goes. This goes on and on. I think it's extremely well written and yeah, it ends. We continue to be the burning rage of a dying planet. Earth Liberation Front Mexico. Well, you can say that they're adolescent and impulsive and not disciplined, but but they're getting it done, and I totally respect that. And this is, this is not hierarchical. This is not the. This is not the way they do things, and nor Alf ELF in general. And these are not trivial targets either in my opinion.

Speaker 7: You know another just another thing that I I got from Liara was that she said she wants. Well, this was the quote stop thinking like vandals and start thinking like field generals and I think that's kind of the opposite way to go. As soon as you start thinking like field generals, which is quarterbacking this movement, you know against the dominant or the the dominant culture. You're already starting to think like what you're against. And really, the idea is to change the way that you think the and and the way that you approach living life. And if you're going to be so organized. Against things that are out there. I mean, it's already, it's it's already seeped into your thinking.

Zerzan: You know, we've seen this historically. I think. Dan maybe that seems like a reach to mention bottom line off, but that's exactly how that went. I mean, they weren't anarchists or anti save to begin with, obviously, but. You know, that's said several people who were part of it actually made that comment. They become. They become the enemy, they had to become straight for their. For the secret lives, I mean, there's just a number of things where they just were recreating that which distensible they were trying to get. Rid of. 5413460 645 I, as I said last week, I emailed the Air Keith to invite her to come on. Nate did pick up the phone, but if you have a different. View of this. You know, in in a certain way, I guess it never occurred to me or I hadn't thought about it anyway, that you'd that you wouldn't need to be an anarchist to be anti civilization. But I got to think you do need to be anarchist. And because that's a somewhat elastic term but anti authoritarian is. And the point in terms of domination, nature, domestication. That's that's the heart. Of the issue right?

Speaker 7: You know, I I, there's something that doesn't sit. This is just my personal opinion. I don't and expect to speak for anarchists in general or anything like that, but but any time you have any kind of critique that's based on like anti or. The opposition, I think that it exists because that other thing that it's anti or opposing exists and so it thrives on the. Existence of what it's against? So if it actually does succeed in in doing what it's trying to do, what's what's left for it once we're? Once it is achieved, it's it's it's goal of of fighting back or dismantling it. Now it it. There's nothing for it to fight against, so the the systems that were there that were created in opposition. Do they solidify? Do they stay there? Kind of like how the leninists did when they were able to overthrow the Czarist government? OK, now we have the power. Or are we going to wither away the state that didn't really work out that way? That centralized further to fight, basically a civil war anyway, but that's the the Bolsheviks. But that's what is a little bit disconcerting to me about anything that's anti or oppositional derived. It's kind. It's a critique. It's a perspective. But it's not the whole picture, so that's kind of why I like anarcho primitivism to. To play off anti SIV is because Anarcho primitivism has a vision of what life would be like outside of civilization. So you can use the anti SIV critique to to further the ideas of anarcho primitivism, but it's obvious it's very clear that. Like people who are back into the DGR, I like this three letter acronym. It's it's much different than that. It's that I mean they're not anarcho primitivist and they they are upfront in saying that. So what are they? And that's that's the problem I have with it. Well, what what are you you? You just don't like industrialized civilization. Civilization itself is OK. Maybe agriculturalist civilization is is better, but we just have to stop all the industrial pollution and. Species extinction extinction. Things like that and just reform civilization enough to where we can deal with it. I I'm not sure and that's that's really where I have the problem with where the going.

Zerzan: Yeah, this this communique from Mexico is CLF.

Speaker 7: That's pretty upfront.

Zerzan: Yeah, and I think it speaks to your what you said about a vision.

Speaker 7: Tell you where they're headed.

Zerzan: I think the only chance we have is to. By a vision or visions plural, to provide some kind of inspiring thing that that we see out of this that we see other alternatives, other directions. And if you don't have that. That's why I think it's just sad. This deep green resistance who? Who wants some kind of? You know? And I. Trying not to be just completely cliche about this or you know, reach for the easy ones, but that kind of grim command structure thinking that turns people on. I don't think so, but I don't know what turns me. On is is these people of Mexico. They've got a, they've got a burning vision of of something else, not just Being on the attack, but explaining. I think you know. I think it's not just by implication what what they want. What would it be like to live freely and not dominate nature? And that's that's the substance of it. That's the.

Speaker 7: Right, right?

Zerzan: Heart of it. And but you know, it's true. I think what Michael said as well, though. I mean, you know to there are there are a lot of things that need to be said. So and I and I respect Lopez so much. But you know, let's. These horrors that are being visited upon everyone now wherever you are, Japan is just the latest one. You know. If they talk about getting serious exactly. I don't think getting serious is having some kind of. You know old line deal that we've been through that one. And as Dan points out, that didn't come out too well. That didn't turn people on. That didn't go anywhere. And it's time that we did get somewhere, and so how would that be would. You know, just. Looking for an alternative, not probably not so much. And and when people asked I was so struck by this, really when Lear gave her talk, the two seemed like there were more than two questions. There were two main ones. I think the 1st 2. We're very forthright in terms of well where are we going with this? What do you want? What's the endpoint? Do you want people? To take these enormous risks and and you know, sign on. For all this stuff. But what's the endpoint? What what do you want?

Speaker 7: Right?

Zerzan: And and they didn't get that, they wouldn't have asked the question. And it's not, and I've gotten some of that response myself, by the way.

Speaker 7: It's interesting because I think it's like the opposite. I mean people I think. See understand your vision. I think for the most part, but when I've gone to see you speak, it's people don't understand how to. How to do anything to get to where your vision is?

Zerzan: More to more, how to get? There, that's yeah.

Speaker 7: Right, and that's all they're focused on is like how to get there through it's.

Zerzan: The questions are. More that's right, they they really are.

Speaker 7: So it's kind of it's it's.

Zerzan: It's kind of the.

Speaker 7: Opposite the opposite, right? So when.

Zerzan: It's yeah, it's more like sounds good. So what are we?

Speaker 5: Supposed to do, you know?

Speaker 7: Yeah exactly yeah.

Zerzan: And then that. That's the problem. You know that's the that's the other challenge, of course. But they they have something to say yes or no about or think about negatively or positively. You know I have maybe. Go on about that a bit more.

Speaker 7: No, no, we can.

Zerzan: It's OK if somebody's wanting to call about it. That's of course fine.

Speaker 7: We can move on.

Zerzan: This was last week, late last week a study. If you saw this, this is about banned society. And the thrust of it is. This is, where is this going to be published? I can't see here. Mostly American anthropologist working on this. It's from Friday, March 11th, New York Times. The main point is. That there was always a very big assumption among banned society that was kinship related that that nearly most most people were tied in that way. That was the. That was how they, the coherence of it was, that they were all related, well, apparently. They're that's not the case according to Arizona State University of Missouri. And another researcher. They're discovering that that isn't it. That isn't. That wasn't the case in general. Apparently members of band are not highly interrelated. It's kind of cool, but So what holds it together? And this just makes it for another question I guess is cooperation. Cooperative behavior, extensive cooperation that keeps stress stressing this whole point. That that's the distinctive human behavior that was emerging. Not dependent on kinship.

Speaker 7: You mean like participatory democratic economy? I'm just kidding.

Zerzan: But it's kind of. It's kind of nice. I mean, it's not that you can. You know your family, you've got, you're stuck with them. You got to stick together because you're related, but but no, I guess not, it's. And this has to do with the very evolution away from hominids away from apes. You know, way back.

Speaker 1: OK.

Speaker 8: A couple minutes.

Zerzan: Well, one more call. Hi there. Hi there, you're on.

Speaker 2: Hi John, this is Caleb from New Hampshire. How are you?

Zerzan: Good tailor from where.

Speaker 2: Enjoying New Hampshire.

Zerzan: Oh, OK.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm enjoying your show tonight. I just want to reiterate what I I I emailed you this week and. And I really I really have. Been enjoying this conversation. And I really think that you and Leah and Derek are such natural. Allies and important voices I I I would really like to see. I said it by e-mail and I'm just saying again I would really like to see you guys together in the same room having this conversation. Because I I don't think there are. Any more important conversations going on? At this time, so that's it alright.

Zerzan: I'd be I'd be real interested in that. That then maybe? We could just get into a direct conversation and and certain things might be clarified. I appreciated your e-mail very much and I'm sorry for the duplication. I had forgotten that I that I had emailed you, but.

Speaker 2: No worries, great. So keep up the great work.

Zerzan: Thank you, thank you for calling in. That might be interesting, so there it is for the GDP. It was it. The German Democratic Republic, no, it's.

Speaker 7: Well, that's pretty good. Our gross domestic product. You mean the the the Dr deep grain resistant?

Zerzan: No, sorry. DGR, Dr. OK, there you.

Speaker 7: Go was the olive green.

Zerzan: Or the pea green resistance, says Dan Todd.

Speaker 2: Right?

Zerzan: Puts it so cleverly and and frighteningly well, we're kind of running out of time. And I don't know it's, you know, it's kind of well, I don't know. Maybe maybe I would regret it if it wasn't one sided, but you know, it's kind of 1 sided and this is that OK.

Speaker 7: Sure, yeah, you know.

Zerzan: Radio so, but we're trying to make sense of this. And the you know. Give some intelligent points of view on it and we'll. We'll probably be moving away from this, but not not necessarily. I feel like there probably is more to say. And and I like Taylor's idea that there should. There needs to be more. Conversation I think. Thank you so much for Cliff.

Speaker 7: My pleasure, thanks for having.

Zerzan: Coming down here, man. Me yeah, I'm glad you're feeling better and it's a drive down there.

Speaker 7: Yeah, that really sucks. Being sick for two and a. Half weeks

Zerzan: Geez, yeah, bad news. Thanks for the sounds too. OK, Catherine will be here next week. Our good. Friend Kathy Say hi to her. OK, take care please. TuneIn,

Speaker 3: Makes a piece of trash move like an animal and take my eyes off the road long enough to wipe the smile. From a native person's face and now my welcome home will have to come with her. No, I don't know. But I'd like to make the train for the broken window. For all my. Sound of a racing as it will take forever. You can put praise of anything.

03-08-2011

[audio]

World news, memory, therapy, techno-developments, and, mostly, Lierre Keith's very authoritarian "Deep Green Resistance" approach (3 calls about it).

03-01-2011

[audio]

Uprising fever! The disaster of Afghanistand other Obama gifts. Rampant eco-cide. Action reports. Ad of the week, latest techno news. Call/report from Madison.

02-22-2011

[audio]

Libya, 'sustainable' development, local Food Justice Conference, Wisconsin anti-union effort. END:CIV review, action reports. Technology devices and deceits. One call.

02-15-2011

[audio]

Kathan on deck. Egypt, et al.! Abstract Expressionism, urban pathologies, drilling/pipeline disasters. Fine action news, "Why I Don't Call Myself a Primitivist" discussion.

02-08-2011

[audio]

My Vancouver/Victoria trip last week. Global food crisis; its connection to eco-crisis. Resistance news. Postmodern philosophy and the high tech ethos.

02-01-2011

[audio]

Taco Bell, Egypt, seas and factories rising. Car pools, gyms? Not isolating enough. Great ads, action reports, a wacky poem. One call.

01-25-2011

[audio]

Cairo uprising. Many US cop casualties; Alone Together, new Sherry Turkle book. Anthropology corner. Action news. four calls (including a friendly prank one).

01-18-2011

[audio]

Kathan here. Tunisian insurrection. Shootings, crazy weather. "What is Insurrectionary Anarchism?" (anon.), Michael Becker's 'Anarcho-Primitivism.' Quotes/ads of the week. Action reports, two calls.

01-11-2011

[audio]

Arizona shootings, mounting global ecocide. Ads of the week (Dupont, Panasonic), action news. Michael Becker (from Fresno State and Sierra Nevada Earth First! Radio) interview, second half of the show.

01-04-2011

[audio]

Steffi and Aragorn here from South Africa on their anarchist documentary odyssey. Deepening insanity at every level. Resistance reports, two calls.

Speaker 1: The trick.

Speaker 3: I think to myself.

Speaker 1: Let's take. A walk.

UNKNOWN: Where is. From them

Speaker 1: What is going age? Hopefully unification means everyone talks about the same time. Just me. That's a. By ourselves.

Speaker 4: Energy Radio June June January 3rd. You had some problems here in the studio, but not in Super Bowl 1. Very nice surprise. I didn't know about this for sure until. Just a day ago or so. But we've got Stephen Aragorn here in the studio from South Africa. They've been doing a. We've been interviewing people for a film documentary. Anarchists around the world intro. Think talking to.

Speaker 5: A lot of people, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: They were here today. I got the treatment, so I'm going to. Turn it back on them. Fire some questions. We have some discussion and your calls 5413460645. It's nice to be back if you were wondering where last week's show is. If you didn't hear that there wasn't one, Carl is. Back from Michigan, but he's sick. Chris has stepped up once again, thank you, Chris.

Speaker 5: No problem.

Speaker 4: And let's see what else housekeeping wise. Well, I'm not going to make any more pronouncements or projections about the whether this these broadcasts are going to be filmed. Let's just see what happens. I don't know if they are going to be or not. Sebastian's in New York right now. But anyway, whether they are or not. The KWVA broadcast will be happening and next week, by the way. Michael Becker from Fresno State. first. Very good character, very interesting. It was on his show, well twice I guess in the last month or two. Can I have him on the phone? From the valley down there, and I know. That's going to be good. I think it's going. To maybe follow. Up a little bit on what Cliff was saying when he was. Here 2 weeks ago. Thinking about. Michael's writings versus Wharton's. The ecology of that nature guy. And his threadbear you get a new book, by the way, but we'll save that for we'll. Save that for next week, and I hope Cliff will be back. That'll be back later. OK? Well first, just as usual, some of the random stuff from the week. You probably know person of the year, times. Person of year is. There's favorite Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Did you see the cover? You see what the zombies just staring at this. It's perfect for the disembodied stuff that he's helped us too. Yeah, in the film the Big film of the Year is social. Social network right?

Speaker 6: Yeah, network.

Speaker 4: Is that the next social social network and that was typical or timely as well? I guess it's about a person with no social skills. So as they say, he was picked because he's been changing how we all live our lives. That's sad, but true. I guess how we all fail to communicate with each other might put it that way. And his chase is saying I got this too. Wonderful exemplars of what's been going on. You might have seen this the 3000 plus blackbirds in the town in Arkansas. Near Little Rock. Fell from the sky and B Arkansas one square mile, Red Wing blackbirds began falling out of the sky. On New Year's Eve. No particular explanation. It could have been the fireworks. And at the. Same time, this uncanny in a grizzly way. Few days before that roughly 85,000 fish. Were killed near the town of Ozark in the western part of Arkansas. Biggest fish kill. That anyone can remember. In Arkansas also. Well, let's see there were dead birds in. New roads lost the Louisianand another case of well, this it's just. epidemic the unhealth of it all. That checking for toxins. The fish were diseased, but they don't know why. Anyway, it's raining dead birds and the dead. Closer to home in a sense, and Clyde. Ohio, this was last Friday a big story about the. The mysterious cancers that have sickened dozens of kids. Small town. And they don't know why that's happened either. We could have been the Whirlpool Corporation's largest washing machine factory. Or maybe the Vickery environmental waste site just outside town? Or even the Davis Besse nuclear plant, about 20 miles from Clyde, OH. But it could have been those things. It could have been any of those or all of those. Quite possibly. Nothing to do with it. And your latest. Natural gas explosion. In Wayne, MI Blast felt. For miles. Blew up the store. Killed 2. Well that’s very reliable. Yeah, there haven't. Been a lot of explosions or neighborhoods incinerated. And right here just to finish off this vein front page on Sunday in the register guard here in Eugene, dying on the vine, the story about wine grape growers. How how their grapes are poisoned by? The pesticides from clearcuts. We all know that. With your good old clear cut, then you poison the soil. To make room for the tree farm that's planted there, well, the poison spray drifts away. They do this by aerial application. It is a nice picture. You can see the clear cuts in the background and. In these severe. News of the week. In Brisbane, Australia, SE Australia. It's going to be one of the first major cities to be underwater because of global warming. They know they're having massive. Unprecedented floods. Floodwaters covered an area of the sound of France and Germany combined. And that's still going on and just one other thing here adds. Of the week. Cannot show them because we don't have video, but and thank you for people that have been helping out of sending things Damien for example. 2 great car ads here. Damian sent the one there's an Audi ad that has to do with the Audi season. And the line is progress cannot be stopped, but it. Can be driven. And maybe even better is a Subaru love. It's what makes a Subaru a Subaru Subaru. Yeah, that's what that's what comes to my mind about car plants love. In progress too. Well, thanks for coming in and so I thought I'd start with just if you could say a few words about. You are from Johannesburg, is that right?

Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm from Johannesburg. SteffIs from Austria.

Speaker 4: What's the energy thing like down there? You want to. Talk to that a little. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 6: An amorphous movement in South Africa.

Speaker 5: It's still pretty young.

Speaker 6: There it's pretty red and black. It's quite a big traditional left there, and It’s got strong crossovers with that. For better or worse. Cape Town, probably more. More of a scene than in Joburg. It's getting it bigger there it's. A bit more diverse. Yeah, I think things are really starting to. Happen there, but yeah, it's young and growing and I think it's going to be some while southern Africas a whole, though it's pretty inspiring and we started off our phone there and we spoke to one or two people from Zimbabwe and Zimbabwe. I suppose to sort of sheer desperation you've got a collapsed economy. 85% unemployment, agriculture, agricultural crisis there, or food crisis. They're scared there's like a huge general group. There's about 100 people doing 24/7 mutual AIDS, community development stuff, radical radical guys.

Speaker 4: Wow, continue that. I've really heard of his sumbala. Group, but we don't get much information. At least I haven't had.

Speaker 6: Many, many sources really of information. Yeah these we have that. Yeah, these guys are called Ohura network and yeah I mean apart from the community stuff they've, they've got five different newspapers that they put out weekly and different regions. They've got a library. They've got a radio. Station, I mean they really have.

Speaker 8: Call shagon.

Speaker 6: Big chemicals they really hooked themselves up there.

Speaker 4: Wow, it sounds like. There's a real basis. There's real projects going on. That's great and you so you started there and went to South America. Is that right?

Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe I should talk now. Yeah, we exactly two months ago we flew to Brazil. We spent two weeks in Sao Paulo and Rio and spoke to a lot of really cool anarchists there like some really nice. Projects happening and squats and squatter movements and landless people's movements is really inspiring. And we travelled around Brazil for a bit and then went to Uruguay, where where we met with the FLW, which is a really big his communist organization, very old as well and went to Argentina, Chile and Peru, and we saw some really. Great projects along the way, really inspiring, especially those anarchists that also work together with indigenous people there I thought were most inspiring.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I think that's it, sure. It gets. Gets to me. It's I've been. I just want to throw this in there a communication somebody had been in touch with so I won't even use the first name because they're under the gun and communications are can be monitored, obviously. But in the Philippines, they're. They have. They have a definite connection with some indigenous people and. I just think that is so important. And they're going to be providing more information than. People in long e-mail, but anyway, that's what's happening in various places, just as it is happening to some degree already in North America, I think.

Speaker 6: Yeah, I think there’s indigenous struggles. Should also act as inspiration for anarchists and anarchist struggle because I mean. You know the level of seriousness, whether it's out of desperation or the degree to which they face like. All these invading influences that these guys are really added. 24/7 seriously picking up arms like actively resisting, and I think that's that’s where we need to get to. Additional struggles definitely further along.

Speaker 4: I find it so funny and I think. Maybe it's Kevin Tucker for pointing this out. When you get this sort of condescending thing from. For modern leftists who as I mean in general of course discount the indigenous experience. And he said, Gee, when you look at resistance, you think the lift has been doing so well and it hasn't been actually indigenous people in various places who have been resisting for century. Trees, in other words, when you think about it, It’s obvious, but sometimes we lose track of that. In other words. Who is effective and who isn't? You know It’s striking. You know It’s just another modernist condescension, but. Yeah, and when things at the Mapuche and you were there, you were in Chile as well.

Speaker 6: Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah, It’s amazing stuff so. Who is carrying the ball anyway? Isn't you have a whole lot of? They have a global deal, the. Mapped out you're going north from from here from Eugene.

Speaker 8: Yeah, we're going. To Portland tomorrow. And then, we're going to Seattle and we're not quite sure if we're flying toronto after this to go to the North Americand case Studies network conference. But then we are flying down to Denver. Arizonand Texas, Floridand then New York, DC area, Boston. Within the next two. Months, yeah and.

Speaker 6: Then and then off to Europe for. Two months Greece, Spain Italy Sweden France Germany Austria.

Speaker 4: Wow oh boy, that's exciting.

Speaker 6: Well bunch of stuff.

Speaker 4: They're going to have a. A mega film and you were saying it's going. You will have the resources there, you'll have. Access to the entirety of the different interviews is that.

Speaker 6: Right, yeah, that's it. I mean we, we want to obviously make a really great 90 minute feature length documentary on because in history ideas contemporary composition, how it looks around the world and with as diverse range of voices as possible. But we also want to share the complete interviews and we're going to do almost 100 interviews all together, some with very well known anarchists and a lot with just, on the ground people doing everyday stuff. We really want to share all of it online to ever wants to see it? You know people watch documentary and want to get more. Information any. Of the people or ideas and so. It's all there. For people to view and use however they want.

Speaker 4: Wonderfully ambitious. Do you have a title so people can keep track of that and think it won't be available for some time, but just to keep it in mind, not tell yet?

Speaker 8: Well, until now, we always went and we still are going with the title Anarchism, a documentary. I think it's just going to be called anarchism in the end. We're not quite sure yet if that's going to be another title, but we have a homepage that's anarchism, documentary.net. Written together and we are also on Facebook.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's yeah that's about it. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 4: Right, that's great. Sounds like you got it covered and. It's great to see you up here and we're just in. The Bay Area, right? You were down. There with some of. The yeah.

Speaker 6: There were some fantastic people we talked to down in the Bay. I mean were not a before that. That was our first up in the US. We spoke some guys from Copwatch And in the Bay we met with some of the joda guys and exoda guys, which is really fun. I'm a long time fan so that was good. We spoke to Audrey good friend a 90 year old anarchist who's been anarchist for 90 years, . That's that's pretty inspiring and unusual. And yeah, a lot of cool characters down there.

Speaker 4: Oh great. Yeah, what you're doing longer, but you'll get a great reception all over the place and. You know, I've been I was still holding out hope based on nothing to be in the Middle East. One follows the other case against the wall and the internationalist aspect. Of that and. Talking about hanging in there. I mean every Friday. For what is it five years or something? Like that in some of these villages and go out there. And face down the IDF on a routine basis. And I see that Paul, like what is his first name? Is in jail. Now I had some contact with him. He's one of the spokespeople. Can't think his first name. Anyway, Polakov just Paul like is really. You don't have any plans to go to the middle. East, though on this trip.

Speaker 8: What we really wanted to, but time is really running out. The money is running out. As well, but. We did interview one member of Anarchist against the Wall. Who was visiting South Africa? And we got a really nice interview with him.

Speaker 5: Oh wow.

Speaker 8: We actually also interviewed a Russianarchist who was in the South Africa, which was fun. Because yeah, we hope we can get to Russia, but yeah. At this point.

Speaker 4: So let me know I have some friends in Moscow and terrific people.

Speaker 8: Oh, awesome.

Speaker 4: Yeah, they're Jordanianarchists who've made themselves known in the West once or twice. But anyway. Get all over the place. I hope to be. Able to host each other. If people want to do that. Sort of thing. OK, well before we get to the break. I just wanted to throw something out in case it occurs to me off the subject, but I'm trying to address the topic of happiness. And it's funny that. Anybody else if anybody wants to help me out there, give me your thoughts. And I'm finding. I was just about to think, well, I don't know where else to look for thoughts, . And I've been. Reading a lot recent months. Now it's sort of seems to me maybe it's just because I'm so obsessed with this at the moment. New books. For example, here's. A brand new one. It was found Sony called Mourning Happiness. Morning is in grieving happiness narrative in the politics and modernity I'm seeing. I'm seeing some titles coming up as if people are noticing. Whatever happened to happiness is one way to put it. And what would it look like if somebody wrote a history of happiness? Anyway, I'm just going to throw it out there. John's is anarchist. That calm is one way to get over to me. If you. Want to? Share anything I'm sure I'll be getting back to this at some point. And just, well, no, I'll just leave that for now. But why don't we just have a music break now? And let me remind you 5413460645. Anybody like to call and ask a question of Stephen Oregon?

Speaker 9: Hi, my name is Alex and if you like your music funky then tune into my Grandpa show that's best phone that's the oldest phone. The vintage punk show at Thursday night 7:00 PM KWV AUD. We got Mr. James Graham the funkiest man in town, so make it funky.

UNKNOWN: 123 make it. I got the.

Speaker 3: Tell me. You gotta find many ways to kill a CEO, slap him up and shake him up and then . Then I'm up the floating, beat him with the joke. You can do it Bronco. Yeah, this go fund me, wait to get a seat, eat them up, and then you can do it. I've got justified it with what you wait. I'm gonna turn debating how to get it for the late you working you well we happy just to work that day. But I'm gonna slap him to my blood. Elasticity did they cut off your electricity? Did you scream and yell explicitly complicity. I'm gonna like your residential. To help put that, they all Swash out that counts. Mother babies with their molars on the every other. Control the Pope. Dalai Lama holy Rollers and I and you might catch me on the scenic route with my penis out twice for the executives with the meanest mouth. Wanna know what this the meanest bounce that they try to clean this? Out clean this. Cloud set him down. I ain't never seen the calling you back. The record I ain't called it, the guy. But touch this and the small of your back when the bathroom start to attack. But you gotta say, eat out, slap up and they come up and then you can do it for you with this. CEO slap him up and take him up and then with the job you can do it Bronco. Get deeper if you can't get the crib, get the beeper. They made the scene before there was a corner.

Speaker 4: We are back and do we. Have Michael on the line. Hello Michael. Hello hi there, hey good to hear from you man.

Speaker 7: Yeah, you're really quiet brother.

Speaker 4: Oh really, sound is too low.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not on the not on the show it well it's a little low on the show. Actually we have the. Speakers turned all the way up and you can barely hear it, but. The only thing you can do to control that, but right now on the phone you're a little quiet.

Speaker 4: OK, I'll try to keep it. In mind we're having a little. Having some difficulties here with the equipment. Anyway, how's it going? You're back from your tour.

Speaker 7: I was going alright till last night went to, take a stand against the ******* pigs who were killing people we. Went on mayor are we?

Speaker 4: Yes we are. Oh no, yeah, just be careful with that you. Know It’s one of those things.

Speaker 7: Sorry sorry I was hearing the music on this thing that we're still on musical break.

Speaker 4: No, no, we're on.

Speaker 7: OK, yeah, so doing all right a there was a March last night that took place in Portland in response to the recent multiple police killings here in town and at this particular March was what was really interesting was to hear some of the new chants coming out where. Very much communist chance. In fact, one of the chants was anarchy and communism, something something smash your prison. I don't know what it was. Some cute little rhyme. Well it. Turns out it comes. Come back on the indie mediand all of these leftist anarchists. These Reds are. Are we're telling me on indie media that they wrote those rhymes thinking of me, and I hope that as a preemie I hope I got got the message and that primitivism is. Is alienates the middle of the working class. Thinking the whole time. Well, this hilarious that they're aligning themselves with the working class so strongly because number one, and none of these kids are really working class, and even if they were to align yourself with a group who begs for police protection because the police are killing homeless people, the police are killing people. Who are the dregs of society, the ones that the working class wants out of their way when they're on their way? To the job to kiss the bosses. And yet all these. Supposed anarchists are now declaring a war against primitivism, even going as. Far as to try. To align my name with some handles being used and out those handles on indie media, it's really quite interesting.

Speaker 4: Oh Gee, that's remarkable, and it's a good thing. The working class isn't turned off by communism. Can you think of a worse, more ridiculous? The thing that threw out there were communists. Clueless can you get so? This just this a new thing.

Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. Well the cop the cop. Killings are very. Recent they the long line. Yeah, just began again about five days ago.

Speaker 4: Two more.

Speaker 7: But yeah, this. This divide well, no, it's not a new divide. You know that the divide is old, but this these string of attacks are new and of course they're coming under cloak. They're people that will say hello to your face at actions or whatnot, and give you a hug. We'll we'll instantly run to their indie mediand start posting this slanderous crap. That's just funny. How this? How this works and It’s, it's actually the tactics they're using relating directly to COINTELPRO. You know the way they’re using using real names to address people that generally use handles to remain anonymous within certain postings. Yeah, It’s pretty interesting. To see this. These flagrant attacks that are taking place against against people that are, align themselves somewhat with primitivist thought all of a. Sudden, but at least they know that we know that they're our enemy. That's that's a good thing.

Speaker 4: That's true good. Point man

Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that those divisions need to be made more clear. I think there's always there's for a long time. I think that people have been trying to unite the two. It's like no, you can't really unite. Because they are starkly different from each other and they oppose each other in very many forms.

Speaker 4: Exactly historically and elsewhere, yeah.

Speaker 7: Yeah, but yeah, I mean It’s. It's been an interesting couple of months. John since we talked last on the show.

Speaker 4: You were last in Colorado when we had a phone conversation. Did where did you go then?

Speaker 7: After Colorado, went to Salt Lake City, which actually was quite quite a good experience. Now that. You know, there's It’s. It blew away many stereotypes that I had of Salt Lake we played at a small coffee shop that was not at all radical and its intentions and played to a mostly older crowd who were really receptive to the ideas that we. Were talking about. Within resistance and primitivist resistance and. What it looks like. To resist not just levels of social authority, but also the entire social existence of mass society and people becoming really receptive to those ideas and wanting to have deeper discussions and really trying to understand that. Week and these are people. You know that I have absolutely no attachment to any radical communities whatsoever. Really understanding where that critique comes from and coming back with their own stories and their own ideas to add to the to the discussions. That was really interesting and nice to be a part of. But I do have to say that the. One thing that I learned about the supposed anarchist community over the last couple of months touring around and staying in their house is. They're all drunk. It's a very, very bad problem going on right now where I would say a good 7580% of the people we met were just daily drunks. And I really see nothing productive coming out of this. Even people with really good critique really. Good foundation for their their, their resistance and the basis of why they resist are still maintaining this constant state of drunkenness and. And . That I see that there's probably. A little more that can make you non productive than. That being in that state, and that's something needs to be addressed. I think Kevin Tucker addresses it in many of his writings, but not full on. It's something seems to be more. Of a personal choice for him, he doesn't really attack the institution of it as a whole that much. Maybe he does. I haven't read it, but I think he's he's on to. It there with those critiques. Absolutely, I think that there's something there's something that goes hand in hand with modernity and with mass society and the. The urge to escape from it. Becoming internalized into our consumerism and how we consume their crap to as a form of escape from from the drudgery of their existence.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been there. You want that numbness from the. How empty and journey it is.

Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's quite sad the to. To put it together with. How little the fight is being pushed back against them and within these radical communities, not that the fight is not. Occurring all over. The world, but within these small communities of people who have radical intent, who are doing the brain work and thead work within their own lives to break down these these ideas. And get to the root of them. To see them stifled so much by social ideas of alcoholism being accepted, it's really. It's really dumbfounding, actually.

Speaker 8: Maybe I can say something here. Maybe you should check out Gabriel Kunz's latest book. It's called sober living for the revolution where he talks about the connection of being server server as a revolutionary, like the connection between straightedge anarchism, which is really interesting and also in our travels doing the documentary we met like lots of. Really cool people like really active people in South America who are straight edge. And making this strong connection to anarchism. Exactly exactly talking about. You know how often poor communities and indigenous communities, alcohol and drugs are infiltrated to keep the resistance down. And I see that a lot in South Africas well, like when you go townships like. Like you see. All the advertisement, all the Billboard advertisements are about alcohol and then you go to the rich neighborhoods and there's nothing. It's just about like our pets or whatever. So it's like really targeting poor people, and I think it's very important for anarchists to see that and not to because I'm with a lot of anarchists as well that think they're more working class when they get drunk. You know, drinking with the working class, so it's ******* ridiculous.

Speaker 7: Right, yeah it well and this alignment. Of anarchy and working. Class is. It’s relatively new, within within the existence of our of our breed, our species, and It’s detrimental. It's extremely detrimental. I mean, there's no nothing more hierarchical and order I think than than than the class structure and the working class itself. Aligning yourself within that class structure and maintaining that. That structure is is. Saying blatantly that you want to maintain this system of hierarchy. You know, and there's nothing more that there's not never been. A more destructive force on this planet than the working class. I mean, who clear cuts the trees? You know who destroys the rivers, who of course It’s poisonous ideas. Of capitalism and things like that to play a part, but it's always the workers that to do that. So maintaining this idea that anarchy and working class go hand in hand just seems so absolutely ill. Founded to me and that and to even in today's society in America, the belly of the beast is, we. Are the empire here? There is no real working class solidarity, are you kidding me? With everything is exported I see everything comes from the throats of the poor of the world over. So it. To align yourself with the working class seems to me to be ignorant of the fact that. That the. Consumerism that goes along with working class ideology is just absolutely hand in hand. And if. We're fighting for that. Then I need to know because I need to stop fighting on. That side immediately. And I just think It’s quite unfair that these people get to be. Get get to hold the stronger voice within anarchist communities . I mean, that's the strongest. The loudest voice that we see is the red and the red side of anarchism, and it's really. It's old, it's dead, and It’s not doing anybody any good and it needs to be called out for what it is. You know, for what it looks to do? I mean, capitalism is capitalism. No matter if you collectivize yourself or not, you're still taking part in a capitalist system and. That's inherently hierarchical and inherently oppressive. So why are we even playing with those ideas at this point?

Speaker 4: Well, that opens up a whole discussion and. I'm glad you're back and my best to Angeland up the fight right? Did you? Are you keeping that? Current so people can check out the blog and get some reports.

Speaker 7: We haven't updated it since since tour, but we're going to update because we have a whole new slew of musicians now for Holy, Holy, Holy, and our new our new charge is to. Smash smash, the PC liberal fascist tendencies of leftist anarchism and do that on a more direct scale. You know all of this. This identity, politics and working class mumbo jumbo. It's all got to go and we're going to take it head on with the next tour and the next. Album and the next inception of the band.

Speaker 4: Got it going.

Speaker 7: Yeah, good to hear your voice John. And it's good to hear that I've heard about the documentary from various various comrades and friends of mine from around the world are excited about this documentary. I'm glad you have these. Two guests on tonight to. Talk about it. Don't talking about it.

Speaker 4: You're right, been a real pleasure.

Speaker 7: It's great.

Speaker 4: Real lucky. Take care, brother.

Speaker 7: Take care.

Speaker 6: All right?

Speaker 4: And we don't. Have a monitor here in the studio, so we're just trying to keep ourselves hooked up to. Callers and ourselves I guess 5413460645 we got time. Let me just dash through action reports. It's. It's much more. Indispensable than what I used to come up with. But the It’s the direct goodness. And once again, there's a couple of things here. From sort of early last month, but they've only been posted. They've only been revealed very recently. Earth moving greater steamroller machines destroyed by incendiary devices. In netzel upon. Mexico this was this happened December 8th, but it was only. Disclosed just a few days ago, the Mapuche 100 Mapuche can't remembers. Occupied in a state of seized land of the Santa Fe Mining Company, this in the Chilean state of Eloko Province. And that struggle goes on against this particular mining project, among others. Let's say Tuesday this your, let's say Zurich. Bank get pretty well smashed up in Zurich on the on Tuesday the 22nd. That's two weeks ago. Various graffiti no cop will stop our desires to revolt. Portugal on the 28th. This was last Tuesday. There been protests against the installation of tolls tolls on highways in this particular case, the A 28 in Portugal. Austerity measure. Well, some people don't like these tollgate cabins or machines that some of them have been set fire. On Sunday the 26th, one was burned down and on the 28th put it in the right order. One was shot up two individuals with their faces covered, attacked the cabin of tollbooth, cabin. With gunshots at dawn, the police are investigating early last week and this showed up on the 30th, who showed up last Thursday. This also from Chile, Puerto Mont. Various bombings.

Speaker 5: Yeah we got a yeah we got Steve and he was talking about something about what the all what something was just saying about the like the left wing stuff and that.

Speaker 4: OK yeah, thanks Chris for interrupt Steve.

Speaker 2: Hi there. Hi there, hello, what's that?

Speaker 4: Did you want to go ahead? Did you want to? Comment on the call.

Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of working class people. Yeah, there is no solidarity in a certain sense. I was. Talking to my friend here who on the phone about. That everybody with a job, a car and a credit card in America thinks they're middle class and but for a lot of a lot of us who have who have to work, and keep a roof over our head or one thing or another. Sometimes it, it seems hard to break into. It's one thing to live. Hand to mouth or, couch surfing when you're young and cute, but when you're old. Where people aren't. So willing to take you into a community and if you're not into say like he's talking about just living drunk or smoking pot all the time. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it's very inviting. So how does he reach people? You know, like me, somebody maybe with a family they're struggling. And yeah, it's the very nature of the system that he's involved with. It's that's imprisoning him and killing. But how do you? How do you? How do you make contact with people like this? How do you? In other words, if a life of what looks like debauchery is repulsive, and I know and I’m not saying that anarchists are debauchery, I'm friends with many of them. I like them, I respect them, but It doesn't invite a community with these other people. It doesn't invite them in.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a tough one. The whole thing about being marginalized. I don't think Michael would mind my saying though. By the way, he and Angela have two kids. It's not like they're just footloose with no. They're they're choosing a different style, and yeah, I think you're right. Not everyone finds that very appealing or can relate to it in terms of their own experiences. So yeah, it's hard. And I think people have to ask the question. You know, we as we all do. I think all the time in various ways. What are we giving up in order to? Conform, I mean we. Of course the pressures are enormous. As you pointed out, it's not. It would be smooth sailing if you could just freely. Do what you like and not have to worry about survival. I mean you heard him talk about. The drunk punks thing. How many? How many anarchists are drunks and these?

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what. I that's when I come and that's when I jumped into the program.

Speaker 4: Yeah, not too happy with that. He's certainly not part of that so, but yeah, you raise an interesting point. Did you want to comment on that? OK. Yeah, that. I mean, I remember this not. Necessarily a proposed too much but. I'm not so sure. In other words, you can tell people. What would be more appealing to certain people, but you can't be sure? In other words, for example, one of the discussions that you may be aware of in terms of militant activity in the streets that say black bloc anarchist stuff. We hear from some of our. Review calling possible collaborators. Oh, whenever you do that, you just turn off everybody. That's so. Said to turn off it never. But then I think, well, I don't know about that. I think that maybe I've said this before, perhaps, but. Maybe you get the respect by taking it on by having the guts to go out there and instead of just being sort of a sheep like person who will stand on the sidewalk with the sign. And that's all. Unless you're permitted to do something else, you never do anything without permission. How much respect does that get? OK, so it's hard to say then what people we all want to be free. I think in any in any status or any situation. So they there can be resentment. I’ve seen that over the years. You know, people get. They get really bugged these what do these kids? They're all free and I’m slaving away and they're not happy with that. Well, you can. You can hate the kids so you can think about how you. Could work on your own. Make some moves on your own.

Speaker 2: You know, right that it's true.

Speaker 4: Easier said than done, right?

Speaker 2: And I appreciate the some of the kids that I see what? They do and. And I do appreciate it and it's got me thinking about doing different things so I do appreciate that, OK?

Speaker 4: Good boy, I appreciate your call and bring up an important thing.

Speaker 2: All right, I'll be in touch.

Speaker 4: OK, Steve, take care.

Speaker 2: Right bye John.

Speaker 4: Well, as usual the time is flying by. Let me we get back to things here. I just want to mention a few more action type things. Bulldozer was torched. By ELF folks. On the night of the full moon, December 22nd 23rd. In a region of most.

Speaker 7: You know?

Speaker 4: Wesco is a very huge region. Let's see what else we got. Well, one of the things that's really been in the media. Are the bomb blasts starting last Thursday in Rome the. Swiss and Chilean diplomatic offices. Two people were in. The next day in Athens, a powerful bomb went off their court building. They've seen some of the photos major damage. They alerted people so that no one was just strolling by at the time of the. Explosion and this has kicked off the whole discussion several levels. What is the efficacy of doing of sending bonds? And who's doing it and so forth. But I don't think we've seen the end of it end up in Buenos Aries. This also Thursday, I believe. Yeah, shortly before the Athens courthouse bombing, a smaller one at outside the Greek Embassy in Buenos Aires. That was the night before. And in Bolivia there is violence in the streets. Also Thursday, Thursday was a good day for energy I guess. Violent demonstrations in Evo Morales, Bolivia. And Tunisia, well, it's just that there's a lot of Jews out there. Asia has been known as really tranquil, nothing going on there. Well, that's changed a lot. They unrest there. Right around Christmas. Over squeezing the poor, I don't have time for the details in order why we understand the details. Let's see last Wednesday. This. Mentez in France. Let's see. Various windows blown out of the courthouse. And New Year's Eve demonstrations. It's mentioned those noise demos. In St. Louis, MO and in Vancouver, BC. And New Year's Eve prisoner support demonstration in England. Oh, and I think. Maybe, maybe more importantly, Saturday night New Year's Day. Inmates riot at the Low security prison. In, say, Arndale 60 miles South of London. So there's the prisoner action, and I had mentioned pardon me, my throat is choking up here. A very a very lovely communication from. Brazil about anarcho primitivist project there. Been a great one from Turkey. And the time doesn't permit me, but. This quite a thing about the different aspects of this. The different zones and the efforts there. By going by different names, one is one group is called the madness of the modern and another one is simply uncivilized or non civilized. From the green anarchist press. And so I'm not even going to mention first names, but also, and I think I just did refer to that the top of the show from the Philippines. Also, any sort of type people in league with indigenous folks. And they have been in contact with groups like solidarity with Solidarity South Pacific. And other groups on the ground. They're developing things and we'll get more information as it's vetted. Thought this was interesting. This way off April 20th. From the rising tide folks, rising tide seems to be getting more interesting and having a day of direct action against extraction. This straight up antIndustrial. This doesn't seem so conformist of extraction itself. Is the thing I want to. I want to mention. This a great film, English subtitled the conflict, who's loss, who's gained? By Debra Ranjan Sarangi, from Indiand you can find this, It’s available as a DVD. The conflict, and it's about the adivasi, the indigenous there, and the struggles against the. Well, against extraction, among other things, really moving amazingly photographed film. I recommend it. And if we are, if we resume filming with the show part of this, there's some bits of it. And one more thing. If you've seen this a post a few days ago. Anarchistnews.org from a site called Veteranarchy Vet. In other words, veteran. He's combining veterand anarchy. Obviously ex marine. Maybe he's still a marine, but the. Has switched sides. Very excellent stuff. This if you go to. If you look back just a little ways. That anarchistnews.org it's filed under economic nihilism, which I thought was a pretty apt term for it, and he's saying all this talk about this a very thumbnail quickly version of it, but. Two essays, the one I am thinking of the most, is against economy. All this talk about allocation and this in the economy.

Speaker 5: I mean.

Speaker 4: Thell with the. It's basically it. I mean It’s great it's it just goes back to some sources I would say. Well, I don't want to hug all the time, although I've hug all the time. Are you? Pretty encouraged so far, it sounds like this. Thing is rolling really well the.

Speaker 6: Project right? Yeah, the project's going pretty well, and I mean it, it's something we didn't think of when we started the project. Was that we're just getting such a great opportunity to meet all these different anarchist groups from all these different tendencies and definitions. Around the world and just to see really like. How it is on the ground and like? Whether that will leave us with a sense of pessimism or optimism. Once we finish. The project I think these will have a much better idea than we do now. You know, coming from South Africand not really having much engagement with international community till this point.

Speaker 4: I say I like your skill and your openness and. Real pleasure meeting you and thanks again for coming down. It’s a great opportunity to.

Speaker 6: Good from here. Yeah, thanks for the interview earlier as well.

Speaker 4: My pleasure. Well, were just about out of time. We don't have to break into the. This could be a hot discussion the technoculture developments. Mad as usual. 3D the big thing we just throw in one. We just squeeze in one or two quickies 3D TV 3D movies. Very, very big. You'll never guess what the impact is on children. And their whole vision of development, specially under 6. Don't let them watch it. Oh forget to tell us that incredible this just every single thing has this toxic. Side to it, as much as they peddle all this stuff. Anyway, there's a whole trove, I think. As I said.

Speaker 6: Yeah, the whole. The whole 3D TV thing is just to me is such a law of diminishing returns. You know the stuff is so inherently meaningless that they just add these ridiculous token things now. Like 3D TV. So you can like squint a bit, and it seems a little bit more visceral than. It used to be. And I mean, is that. The best that there is that.

Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not much, is it? That's sad. That you market thell out of it and flood all the different kinds of media. I guess you. Can make it go for a while. Well, thanks again. We're going to close it up and thank you Chris. No problem. Hopefully next week's equipment's working in here. You did a good job despite it. OK, yeah TuneIn next week, please.

2010

12-21-2010

[audio]

Kathan here. Drinking water & cancer, other industrial results; shootings. We discuss Merrifield's The Coming Insurrection-as-marxism, Rowan's weak demo/kettling/tactics offering, and Severino's fine critique of Morales regime and its deadly program. Action news, one call.

12-14-2010

[audio]

Cliff here. Fan mail, crazier weather, goodbye Antarctica. Ecology without Nature vs. reintegrating into nature. Ads of the week, wonderful action news. Four calls.

12-07-2010

[audio]

Beethoven, worker editorial, Derrick's 'no voluntary change is possible' mantra, Wikileaks, Cancun climate summit, and some usual themes of disaster and resistance, ads of the week, two calls (IRC and Atlanta).

11-30-2010

[audio]

Empire & Wikileaks. Child soldiers in Africa-OK with Obama. Earth First! at 30. Amazing technonews and declining health. Action reports. Psionic Plastic Joy zine, its anti-tech orientation. How stable is society?

11-23-2010

[audio]

Kathan here. Lethal stampedes: Cambodia to Black Friday. Technology uber alles. Ad of the week. Action review, Derrick watch. More on Anvil Review #1.

11-16-2010

[audio]

JZ and Karl. Pennsylvania talks. Kevin Kelly's What Technology Wants. Derrick Jensen on Democracy Now. Action news. Invasive globalization, invasive species, Anvil Review #1.

11-09-2010

[audio]

Mara, Jacob and Mark take over the show. Lots of action news, a call-in from Simon in Olympia. Brief forays into insurrectionary theory.

11-02-2010

[audio]

Three Holy! Holy! Holy! guys on the show, on tour. Deteriorating Iraq, voting charade in U.S. ($4 billion). Most unbelievable ad: Metlife's "Today the World is Waking up to a More Secure Tomorrow." Action news. Cliff calls re Kevin Kelly, tech worshipper, in Portland.

10-26-2010

[audio]

Mara, Jacob and Simon with John. Iraq, crazy weather, loneliness, high-tech/robotics re-doing of life. Action reports, especially Khimki forest struggle, France. Some theory, need for explicitly ant-civ perspectives to avoid repeating same old, limited militancy. Only off-air calls.

10-19-2010

[audio]

2010 NOT the end of world! More miners die: cornerstone of industrial life. Biodiversity falling, severer droughts on the way, anxiety disorders on rise. Action news e.g. FRANCE, Mapuche. Critique of gatekeeper Left. Pentagon fired on today. One call.

10-12-2010

[audio]

Kathan here. Red Sludge (all is in the open now as disasters multiply). right-wing Obama. More on encouraging meaning of Italy tour. Facebook follies & high tech immersion. Two calls.

10-05-2010

[audio]

Alice and I discuss Italy: 8 events in 8 cities in 8 days. Che un successo! Ads of the week, toxic sludge, Facebook rescues schools. Two calls.

09-21-2010

[audio]

Just me and Karl. Texting swallows all, Video Game College next. Bizarro ads, action news, William Gibson knows little. More shootings, calls from Calgary, Portland.

09-14-2010

[audio]

Kathan here. Bringing it all down before all is lost! Biofuels vs. food, global water crisis. Resistance news. Zizek, and Gungadin Lohar last week--what a contrast in approaches!

09-07-2010

[audio]

Gungadin Luhar from India: Coalition Against Work and Civilization. Wonderful interview/conversation. The CAWC perspectives and efforts in the Indian context. Extremely informative; GL an excellent individual!

08-31-2010

[audio]

Cliff co-host. Iraq, 9-day Chinese traffic jam, industrial-strength bedbugs. Warming, poisoning, resistance news. Assaults on the concept of nature, illusions about technology. Call from Chicago.

08-17-2010

[audio]

Kathan here. A bit more on Christian primitivist dialogue. International action news. Fakebook, disaster spreads, This Your Brain on cyberspace. How anti-civ narrative connects with the present. No show August 24; Cliff on deck in two weeks.

08-10-2010

[audio]

Extreme weather getting more extreme as mass society devours world...But mainly a conversation with christian primitivists, following the weekend's Roots of Resistance gathering in Portland. Three excellent calls.

08-03-2010

[audio]

Major shootings, oil everywhere. Extreme weather. Middle East, China, India. Development--high tech and otherwise--ain't it grand? Action news and views, but still no phone connection.

07-27-2010

[audio]

Afghanistan-Pakistan, Empire and its police state. Oil spills everywhere and earth's temperature setting new records. Action news. Islands going under, and so is faith institutions. Bleak scene but system is now a hollow shell. Avanti!

07-20-2010

[audio]

Collapsing faith in technology as we are yet held hostage. Anthropology news. Paleolithic vs. depression. Ways to hide from reality. Action reports. Still no phone connection.

07-13-2010

[audio]

Civilization means gassing the geese, âlifeâ coaches, robots, nutritionless food, cyber cheating. Action news, assorted books. Viva Kathan!

07-06-2010

[audio]

Just me and Karl, no phone lines. Ireland trip. Considerable resistance news (e.g. G20 in Toronto). Crazy ads, the usual carnage. Anarchy according to Trotskyists. Zizek, Fukuoka.)

06-22-2010

[audio]

Still no phone connection; just JZ. Government in disarray, BP and the rest of the picture. Technology leads to pathology, much on the subject. Would anarchy necessarily be non-industrial? (No 6/29 broadcast.)

06-15-2010

[audio]

KZ on deck. International action news. Ecology Without Nature madness. Books great (Pandora's Seeds: The Inforeseen Consequences of Civilzation) and awful (Learning Native Wisdom). How do we move forward as prevailing system shows us one disaster after another? Still no phone connection, sorry.

06-08-2010

[audio]

Just JZ, still no phone-in connection. More on the Gulf oil apocalypse and the overall death-trip nature of techno-industrial existence. Resurgence of Peak Oil thinking and preparedness, increasing awareness of emptiness/degraded nature of the immersion in digital mediations. More shootings, suicide -- is there no response?

06-01-2010

[audio]

Cliff here, addressing Zizek (confusion‹commie), artificial life. Industrialized desert, industrialized world. Action reports, the need to attack basics of collapsing system. Gaza flotilla murders, Gulf disaster, suicide plague. Phone still not functioning. Tim's birthday!

05-18-2010

[video] [audio]

Alice here. Gulf oil spill disaster, more Chinese schoolchildren stabbed to death. Our Sweden-Norway trip. Action news medly, further technoculture madness. New books (e.g. For Wildness and Anarchy, Born to Run). Phone not working. PictureEugene segment: forest defender Becky White sings about Geronimo's sisters.

05-04-2010

[video] Jamie hosts this week while John spreads the anti-civilization message across Sweden. Jamie plays a variety of music through out the show and speaks about the importance of being positive, addiction and the effects of these attitudes on water crystals. A phone call on the anarchist in Ohio who refuses to leave his home after getting an eviction notice. PictureEugene segment: "The Patrician", the fight of a retired community to save their trailer park from development.

04-27-2010

[video] [audio]

My fine Oly weekend at the NW Anarchist Conference. Gulf oil spill disaster, homeless man dies on NY street among passers-by. Tales of alienation in mass society; news of uprisings. Bizarre life in the technoculture, new books. Four calls. PictureEugene segment: Tasered: What a Drag, Man (Van Ornum pesticide rally)

04-20-2010

[video] [audio]

Cliff co-hosts, brings tunes, discusses limits of Zizek, mirage of Paleolithic diet. Iceland volcano occasions globalization vs. degrowth/localism awareness. Action reports. 11 years since Columbine shootings. PictureEugene video segment: young woman featured in AlienGardener, Running with the Pack.

04-13-2010

[video] [audio]

Return of Peak Oil (?) as supply falls. Lots of action news, environment updates. New books re: theory, technoculture. Calls about Portland, Sade. Division of labor: Marx and Adorno. PictureEugene video: "Mother's Day Special" (mother and son tell all at local tavern).

04-06-2010

[video] [audio]

Stream working(!) and now, thanks to Karl, our own server for when it isn't. More on excellent Portland black bloc moves. The shame of popes, presidents, industrial reality, the Left. Action news and publishing developments. New books: the biofuel delusion, and a non-approach to globalization. Calls from Portland, Pennsylvania, Montana, Eugene. A forest dweller's rant on the police state is the PictureEugene segment.

03-30-2010

[video] [audio]

Solo show, no stream, two callers. Societal meltdown, anarchists failing to notice? Action news, strong black bloc in Portland. Russian TV journalist says anarchism is the solution there (!). iPad as all-enveloping "ecosystem" vs. need to reconnect with natural/unbuilt world. M. Dumont: un marxiste? PictureEugene video segment: ¡Tchkung! show in Eugene 1999.

03-23-2010

[video] [audio]

School stabbings in China, suicides at Cornell, massive Hong Kong pollution. Global action news, including anti-cop anarchist riot in Portland, announcements, new publications, bizarro leftist perspectives (e.g. marxist "analysis" from Anarchist Studies duo). Latest techno and eco-collapse findings. No stream, but "blind" call from Atlanta, plus local callers. PictureEugene video segment: kids on hiking trail near Eugene.

03-16-2010

[audio]

With Kathan Z. SF Anarchist Book Fair and B.A.S.T.A.R.D. conference last weekend. Local call-ins plus calls from Kansas, Indiana, Pennsylvania. Subversive art news. More on Black bloc and indigenous.

03-09-2010

[video] [audio]

Politics as usual, latest shootings, eco-deterioration. International action news. Calls about Vancouver anti-Olympics marches, industrial collapse. ChatRoulette and related techno-estrangement. PictureEugene video segment: Eugene Copwatch captures cop harassment.

03-02-2010

[video] [audio]

Chile: industrial death; U.S.: unrestricted profits, bonuses, pollution: the age of arrogance (including pro-nukes, pro-Patriot Act Obama). Action reports. Five call-ins from near and far, e.g. gatherer-hunter gender relations, Melville¹s anti-civ Typee. Avatar. Leftist attacks on exemplary recent black bloc activity, excellent reply by Vancouver¹s Harsha Wella. Stream functioning again. PictureEugene video segment: 90s forest defense in Oregon.

02-23-2010

[video] [audio]

Micah Griffin guest re: recent closing of the 540 Fillmore Warehouse in Eugene by the City. Several supportive call-ins opposing this seemingly selective suppression of a wonderful creative space. Action news. Cowardly opposition to black bloc militancy. Toyota recall. Picture Eugene segment on the Warehouse. There was no stream, unfortunately

02-16-2010

[audio]

Kathan Zerzan co-host. No stream but two local call-ins. Resistance to Winter Olympics and other action news. Vortex rock festival, Oregon 1970. Widespread depression and nature of love songs today. U of Alabama rampage shooting. Postmodern corner: Castoriadis, Eco, Lanier. Audio only

02-09-2010

[video] [audio]

JZ back from a week in Arizona, discusses impressive developments there, e.g. indigenous-anarchist connection/alliance. Several calls, including two from Phoenix. Action news, announcements. Upcoming SF Anarchist Book Fair. PictureEugene video segment: child on a springtime swing -- pre-videogames.

02-02-2010

[video] [audio]

Cliff hosts this weeks show while John is on a speaking tour down in Arizona. More AVATAR, native peoples losing their language, Bill Gates on how he's going to save the world with modern medicine and re-educating our children, the importance of silence and how we're losing it. PictureEugene video segment; Matthew Mcdaniel pays a visit to a university of Oregon administrator on why they should take away Paul Lewis' PHD for sterilizing Akha women. (www.akha.org)

01-26-2010

[video] [audio]

New Eugene infoshop! Absurd stuff from Supreme Court, Obama, Osama, Mike Roselle. Call-in from Layla in Montreal about AVATAR. Technology swallows all, estrangement rising. Cries of nature rising, time to create Pandora here and now.

01-19-2010

[audio]

Kathan Z is co-host. Further discussion of AVATAR and a call from Nekeisha in Memphis on that subject. Report from JZ about Madrid and Brighton visits; comments on Haiti, Pacifica Forum protests. Action news.

01-12-2010

[video] Action news round-up. Latest techno madness. Four calls from near and far: pro-Avatar; back pain as symptom of contemporary stress-world; questions re: critique of symbolic culture; recommended readings. Mental health deteriorating, end of civilization the prescription! PictureEugene video segment: "A view from above," massive clearcuts in our national forests from above.

01-05-2010

[video] [audio]

More on Avatar, Yemen. More Obama outrages. My January travels: Spain/England, Arizona. Some direct action news vs. continuing devastation of species and habitat. Anthropology corner: Upper Paleolithic dyed textiles, alcohol use as response to domestication. Derrick Jensen in latest ORION: "Do something, anything." Anything?? Caller cites early diet shifts re: violence in culture. PictureEugene video segment: heated debate about a neighborhood tavern.

2009

12-29-2009

[video] [audio]

Yemen: US war, US torture prisons in Lithuania. Avatar: Anarcho-primitivist blockbuster? Report on wonderful 12-27 BURN live radio show; A Portland benefit for Franklin Lopez' ENDCIV film project. World roundup of industrial ruination, anthropology corner, two call-ins. Video of David Rovics singing "Burn it down" during BURN benefit.

12-22-2009

[video] [audio]

The debacle of the Copenhagen climate change summit. Is it time to get serious yet? Action news and announcements, e.g. Jeff Luers is out of prison and doin' well! Two calls, in large part about Derrick Jensen: his move to the Left, is he pro-cop? Updates on eco-disasters and massive alienation.

12-15-2009

[video] Guest: Alice Parman. Back from our three week tour we talked about India: highlights/impressions/friendships/movement of anarcho-primitivist ideas there. Such an encouraging memorable trip! Also action news round-up. Off air calls about India. Video segment from the movie Slumdog Millionaire.

12-08-2009

[audio]

Cliff and Kathan host as John works his way back to Eugene. Topics include: Copenhagen conference, anarcho-communism and Zizek, apocalypse theory, and Dubai financial collapse.

12-01-2009

[video] John Zerzan is still on a speaking tour indiand Jamie is guest host on this week's show. Jamie takes us back in time when Eugene had more of a radical reputation; Icky's teahouse, June 18th anarchist riot, the Vortex, Cascadia Free Radio, etc...PictureEugene video segment; "The Vortex" when a bunch of peace loving hippies run the Eugene cops out of a city park.

11-24-2009

[audio]

John Zerzan is on a lecture tour india for the next 3 weeks and Danielle and Madrone are guest hosts for this show. Subjects included Jeffrey "Free" Luers, relationships between elders and youth and trying to create community thru the use of the machine.

11-17-2009

[audio]

Anarchy Radio 11-17-2009, audio only. Kathan on deck for a wide-ranging show. General emotional state of society, more on christian primitivism, action news, crisis news (e.g. re: indigenous groups). More Left bashing, ads of the week. Excellent call from Minnesota.

11-10-2009

[video] Lots of calls, including Andy and Jessica with (some what differing) christian primitivist perspectives. Fort Hood massacre, acts of resistance around the world, latest local pig misbehavior. Call-ins concerning Fort Hood, war, cops. Many voices! PictureEugene video segment; Ward Churchill part 2, "Origins of Globalization."

11-03-2009

[video] Calls from Reggie, Kevin critiquing concepts of christian primitivism. News of social decomposition and action news internationally. Findings on climate, health, pseudo opposition. Julia call pondering reasons for minimal radical moves in the U.S. Anthropology corner: earliest humanity: new insights and sources.

10-27-2009

[audio]

[video] A multitude of international anti-authoritarian actions. Four call-ins: Are you for real about property damage as a tactic? Syndicalism as the path to primitive future? How about LSD as aid to liberation? Excellent report of christian primitivist gathering of 150 in Philadelphia 10 days ago, and some key critical challenges to the basics of christian primitivism from Kevin Tucker. A lively, packed hour!

10-20-2009

[audio]

[video] Guest: Kathan Zerzan. Anxiety, genocidal wars, rising suicide rates: civilization and its fruition. Action news and the energy afoot; culture of resistance? What is our practice when riots and sabotage do not seem generally available? KZ finding art-oriented folks more creative and potentially radical than leftists. Caller explored relationship between secessionists, militia types and primitivism.

10-13-2009

[audio]

[video] Adorno letter on friendship. Loony official news (Obama nobel peace prize, NASA blasts moon, Columbus day) vs. inspiring action news. Ads of the week, anthropology corner. Anti-climate news, Hadron Collider as civilization par excellence. Call from Pennsylvania. PictureEugene video segment, part two of "Ain't on Your Leash."

10-06-2009

[audio]

[video] Olympics, Afghanistan, resistance news. Eco-crisis impact on animals around the world; disease and emptiness in the technoworld. Column of the week, ads of the week. Role of criticism in our milieu. (Online radio stream is back but no calls, unlike last week.)

09-29-2009

[audio]

[video] General news and analysis (e.g. extreme weather, Afghanistan), action news (e.g. G20 resistance, luxury cars torched in Mexico), new films. Ad of the week: ceramics company touting titanium dioxide tile as the best thing for infants. "Zerzan on Chomsky and Jensen" and related exhanges. Aspects of non-health in the technoculture.

09-22-2009

[audio]

September 22 (audio only): Seth Martin, Portland christian primitivist, was my guest; performed three songs. Show was mainly an interview with him; fascinating discussion. Also action news, Ad of the Week, 1.7 million year old case of human caring, for an infirm fellow early Homo erectus individual...

09-15-2009

[video] September 15: Guest: Kathan Zerzan. International resistance news. ecoNvergence conference discusssion - Chomsky, Jensen speakers, related politics of event, apparent disinvitation of John Z. Ads of the week. Various approaches to liberation. (Online stream not functioning, no call-ins.)

09-01-2009

Source

08-24-2009

Source

08-18-2009

Source

08-11-2009

Source

08-04-2009

Source

07-28-2009

Source

07-21-2009

Source

07-14-2009

Source

07-07-2009

Source

06-30-2009

Source

06-23-2009

Source

06-09-2009

Source

06-02-2009

Source

05-19-2009

Source

05-12-2009

Source

05-05-2009

Source

04-28-2009

Source

04-21-2009

Source

04-14-2009

Source

04-07-2009

Source

03-31-2009

Source

03-24-2009

Source

03-17-2009

Source

03-10-2009

Source

03-03-2009

Source

02-24-2009

Source

02-17-2009

Source

02-10-2009

Source

02-03-2009

Source

01-27-2009

Source

01-20-2009

Source

01-13-2009

Source

01-06-2009

Source

2008

12-30-2008

Source

12-23-2008

Source

12-16-2008

Source

12-09-2008

Part 1 of 2

Source

Part 2 of 2

Source

12-02-2008

Source

11-25-2008

Source

11-18-2008

Source

11-04-2008

Source

10-28-2008

Source

10-21-2008

Source

10-14-2008

Source

10-07-2008

Source

09-30-2008

Source

09-22-2008

Source

09-16-2008

Source

09-09-2008

Source

09-02-2008

Source

08-28-2008

Source

08-19-2008

Source

08-12-2008

Source

08-05-2008

Source

07-29-2008

Source

07-22-2008

Source

07-15-2008

Source

07-08-2008

Source

07-01-2008

Source

06-24-2008

Source

06-17-2008

Source

06-10-2008

Source

06-03-2008

Part 1 of 3

Source

Part 2 of 3

Source

Part 3 of 3

Source

05-27-2008

Source

05-06-2008

Source

04-29-2008

Source

04-22-2008

Source

04-08-2008

Source

03-25-2008

Source

02-19-2008

Source

01-22-2008

Source

01-15-2008

Source

01-08-2008

Source

01-02-2008

Source

2007

12-04-2007

Source

11-27-2007

Source

11-13-2007

Source

11-13-2007

Source

11-06-2007

Source

11-06-2007

Source

10-23-2007

Source

10-30-2007

Source

10-16-2007

Source

10-09-2007

Source

10-02-2007

Source

09-25-2007

Source

09-18-2007

Source

09-11-2007

Source

08-28-2007

Source

08-21-2007

Source

08-14-2007

Source

08-07-2007

Source

07-31-2007

Source

07-24-2007

Source

07-17-2007

Source

07-10-2007

Source

07-03-2007

Source

06-26-2007

Source

06-26-2007

Source

06-19-2007

Source

06-12-2007

Source

06-05-2007

Source

05-29-2007

Source

05-21-2007

Source

05-15-2007

Source

05-12-2007

Source

05-08-2007

Source

04-24-2007

Source

04-17-2007

Source

04-10-2007

Source

04-03-2007

Source

03-27-2007

Source

03-20-2007

Source

03-20-2007

Source

03-13-2007

Source

03-06-2007

Source

02-27-2007

Source

02-20-2007

Source

02-20-2007

Source

02-13-2007

Source

02-06-2007

Source

01-30-2007

Source

01-23-2007

Source

01-22-2006

Source

01-21-2006

Source

01-16-2006

Source

01-09-2007

Source

01-02-2007

Source

01-02-2007

Source

Speaker 1: Energy Radio for January 2nd calls here. I'm here and good friend cricket is here. Just sneaked in at the very last minute here that's. Good, well let's see here. Kwvaradio.org on the Internet. If you can't get that signal, you can go to your computer. Archive.org, it's being archived and thanks to cricket and it well in the continued labors of a couple other people, including Carl. It's all fixed up now. I guess it's put in. Order and everything.

Speaker 2: Yeah, chronological order.

Speaker 1: Big alright and we might have a few more listeners tonight behind the publicity for. Benefit Friday night at 7 up a laughing horse. I'll be up there. And some people have been helping out with that and they mentioned. You could get a little taste of the what I'm going to say. I guess by listening to the program and. Some folks have mentioned that. And by the way, on kaboo if you were, especially if you were up in Portland Kaboo at 9:30. I'll be having a conversation with Kathleen Kathleen Stevenson. preparatory to the evening on Friday and the new Laughing horse. I haven't been there, but it's. 12 E 10th on E Burnside, just around the corner from Burnside. Or is it 10 E 12. No, I think it's 12 E 10th. Not far over the bridge. Well, let's why don't we kick off some news here? Let's see here. The this quite the New Year's. Thing the annual celebration in France. 25,000 cops failed to quell the most entrenched one of the most entrenched new year rituals. With vandals it says many of them children sitting on fire, 313 vehicles throughout the country, the worst hit region was all sauce. On the border where 106 vehicles were set ablaze, including 28 in Strasbourg.

Speaker 2: In Tel Aviv, anarchists blocked the city center with a razor wire. From separation wall and the story goes Basil St one of Tel Aviv's hippest coffee shop centers, was blocked by 20 anarchists. Using razor wire from the wall itself today at 1400, which is this on December 29th. We're stretched across the street parallel to each other in formation, reminding that of the wall. Oh, in a in a formation reminding that of the wall and red signs reading mortal danger military zone, any person who passes or damages the fence and dangers his life. Flyers explaining Israel's policy of restrictions on movement. Land grab were passed around.

Speaker 1: I have a feeling given the small size of Israel, there's quite a quite a number of anarchists. There's a. There's anarchist presence and. As you may know, every week the anarchists against the wall I think every Friday are out there and. Whatever happens, happens with that. You know we at green anarchy? We got a submission that I've seen. And by the way, the new green anarchy probably going to be more like the end of February has been a delay owing to the birth of a daughter in just the past few weeks to. Couple of the GA folks. Pretty good reason I guess to switch what you were doing anyway, this article. Part of it mentioned there's a lot of attention to. Anarchists in Greece. They get all the limelight and everything and they said what's surprising and doesn't get out to a lot of people. Is the amount of militancy the interesting actions that happen in Germany? And right on cue. From Spiegel Online and this something I need to pay attention to. I guess this and it was carried on infoshop. And this. I think this a lead up to the G8 summit. Which will be in June. There have been a series of attacks the a luxury hotel where the where the G8 summit in June will be held. Was there was an arson attack? On a politician's house. And there's been a lot of fuss about who's going to pay for all the massive security cost of that, but. Yeah, the politicians house this was. Who was it? Some minister? Related to the Ministry of the Interior. Yeah, this obviously. Already, I mean, this what six months away from from G8? The Kempinski Grand Hotel in. Highly gandom should have rehearsed this one before it on the Baltic was attacked with paintballs Thursday morning. And it isn't the first time, I guess that's. There was a letter sent to the German news agency DPA. Said that, this was a Prelude 2 series of other things. It doesn't matter how many police are on the ground, the police, the letter read. There are more of us than we want to be at the site and we will manage to do that. And then the. A house in Hamburg belonging to. A state security in the federal Finance Ministry was set on fire. And that house is also doused with paint.

Speaker 2: On January 2nd, this from today. Greek anarchists attacked a prison and a group of some 50 hooded motorcyclists threw smoke bombs and fireworks at police officers outside a how do you pronounce this prison name? John, you might better at that.

Speaker 1: Cordalis, I would guess it's just against.

Speaker 2: Cordalis prison shortly before midnight on New Year's Eve, one of the assailants was arrested and nine others detained after police gave chase as the motorcyclists headed along Era Odos The group of suspected arsonists also threw leaflets demanding the release of an inmate at the prison.

Speaker 1: In France, I thought this pretty interesting and this reminded me of something else here. Revelers in the New Year, or some of them. There was a there was a March, a strange a March, parodying the French readiness to say no. Demonstrators in Nantes, the western city of Nantes, waves wave banners reading no to 2007 and now is better. They called on governments and the UN to stop times Mad Race and declare moratorium on the future. This reminds me, I knew I oh sorry, I knew I had this somewhere. Speaking of France. Walter Benjamin wrote of time refusal and during the July Revolution in 1830 and early fighting, he wrote the clocks and towers were being fired on simultaneously and independently from several places in Paris. An eyewitness wrote who would have believed we are. Told that new joshuas at the foot of every tower number. Joshua blowing. His horn as though irritated with time itself. Fired at the dials in order to stop the day. So time is more and more palpable and oppressive, and of course it's speeding up. The Technologized world is whole point of it is to speed things up in. In a way.

Speaker 2: It seems like there's going to be a in Miami, South Florida. There is going to be a radical activist conference on January 5th, the 7th, 2007. This the second annual South Florida radical activist conference, and it looks like it's two days. In the first days, the noise not bombs show and it looks like there's some pretty cool workshops here. There’s one that's the South Florida United Queers and ******** performance and troublemaker. And then there's a film screening. Paint it black anarchism race in the media. And there's also another workshop, the feminist crew tales from the feminist scene in South Florida. It seems like there's a really good workshop list there. Sort of looking at the intersections of race, class and gender through anarchist lens.

Speaker 1: 34606455413460645 if you're not in the area. Call in, it's pretty quiet these days. I got this. There were a couple of things here and this. You've been away for a while cricket and you probably think I just foam at the mouth every single week about about Noam Chomsky, but yeah, well, first I read about this in another context.

Speaker 2: I knew it. Yeah I knew.

Speaker 1: The idea of especially especially. In Venezuela, I've actually been reading about this in several places. There was a a secret summit and want to sound conspiracy oriented, but actually there was a lot of above ground. Accounts or. Related stories and what I'm talking about is the effort to have a EU of the South, a. European Union and integration of countries in South America for development. And it's funny that. This this. Called s s integration. The countries that are outside of the colossus of the north, for example. And how to bring in modernization and industrialization, and for one thing, how to how to get indigenous people to become workers and citizens instead of having their traditional integrity and lifeways and so on. And by the way. Yeah, this to some degree it refers to a weekend meeting December 9th and 10th in Bolivia, of South American leaders and Noam Chomsky wrote about this last month. And he's he's the anarchist who salivates for not only industrialization, of course, but statism. And he's just he can barely contain himself over the fact that there may be in the works as continent, wide, South American unity. This this consolidation of state power and that. That development could really get off the ground. And what a wonderful thing. What a wonderful thing the left. I mean, I'm not saying this capitals play to just install these leftists. It certainly isn't that would be pushing it just a little. It isn't quite that. That way or that simple. But neoliberalism is actually failed to bring about the growth and modernization and. The industrial movement. Gee, who's who's going to do it? Well, Chavez and the other leftist they were. Drawing up plans to do just that and achieve what the right couldn't achieve. And yeah, there’s certainly more to it. Meanwhile, Chavez, this was last week late last week. They are shutting down Radio Caracas television. At private station that opposes his policies. Gee, that wouldn't be the. It wouldn't be part of the police state. In operation or anything with it. But that won't bother Chomsky either. I'm sure anarchist that he is. 01 other thing I forgot this about December. It's. It's extremely well known that this the biggest number of fatalities in the year, and a very bloody year for. American troops, the American occupiers. Also of interest got this in the New York Times. In New York, the first no free December since 1877. No snow at all in December, that's. goes along with about 1000 other. Pieces of data on global warming, everything melting and so on.

Speaker 2: In Ache temene Indonesia, widespread deforestation and illegal logging is responsible for last week's flash floods that left nearly 200 people dead and hundreds of thousands displaced and homeless. The majority of the aches for. Have been clear cut by the timber industry. Many of the logs were purchased by the US, Europe, Japan, Taiwand mainland China. Once the trees are cleared, the topsoil soon washes away and pollutes waterways, destroying those ecosystems. When there isn't any topsoil to absorb rainwater, it simply runs downhill and causes flooding. And of course, usually the way these stories are reported in the news is, just completely abstract like these things just happen. You know, like ohh, this flash flood just happened. You know it's just usually written in the passive voice, attributing no responsibility to the multinational corporations that are perpetrating this abuse of. The ecosystem, and so I appreciated this little new snippet and how it sort of called out. You know, some of the purchasers, at least of the timber. That the timber industry provided you. You know? At the cost of, 200 people's lives.

Speaker 1: It's yeah it could be the cascades here in the West could be Appalachia. It could be Asia. I mean It’s just the. It's the same global. Logic of clear cutting and the rest of it. You know, Speaking of industrialization, for South America. More McDonald's and Walmarts and less. Less traditional. Culture is, that's it. That's a good idea. I think W Bengal state india this has long been a communist state of India. By the way, it's a very red. Area I don't know how much autonomy. These states have, I think. I think there's certainly some. It may be considerable autonomy because they seem to be responsible for a lot of policy, including. Industrial growth And the. The leadership of this Communist W Bengal state. There's a bit of a showdown. They're promoting industrial growth. In fact, there's a fight going on over 1000 acres of fertile farmland. They want to. They want to give it to or sell it to an industrial conglomerate, and the first thing will go in there is an auto plant where potato fields and rice paddies are so. A lot of people are not so happy with the idea of auto plant there. Of course, in South Americand in many other places, there's a similar resistance to. The coming of mass society and. And the industrial. Underpinnings of it. You know there was something I. I sometimes wonder It’s. It's a little bit disappointing when you. Well, and I don't I maybe I should just preface this by saying I don't know this. I don't know the. Picture very well I only see things that raise certain questions and I'm talking about the CLN. It down in Chiapas and there was an article from today, Zapatistas celebrate 13th anniversary of uprising and of. New Year's Day. Of 1994 was the. Was the. Very dramatic unfolding. Of the Zapatista movements, seizing many cities, including the biggest one in Chiapas. And then the whole thing that's been unfolding. I want to read I'm going to read just a little bit of this. Marcos, we know who the sub. Commandante Marcos is a professor turned guerrilla has continued to champion a quieter social revolution for the jungles of Chiapas, issuing missives harshly critical of Mexico's politicians and government policies. Speaking in Totsuki La Mayan language spoken in Chiapas, he recalled on Sunday night this weekend how the movement was founded to end the isolation and misery of the Indians. I don't want to put too much on that, but I mean George Bush could say that the ice we've got to end thisolation and misery you need the factory you need to, you need the belt, but I don't know. OK, I’m pushing it here, but let's go on here it was the first time in many years that Marcos had attended anniversary celebrations. He was escorted by several other ski masked members of the. On last year's anniversary, Marcos began a nationwide tour in an attempt to forge a national leftist movement. Which didn't draw big crowds. His talks into her appearances did not draw large crowds, and he was criticized for straying from his principal cause of fighting for Indian rights. You can you could you could get it more commonly I'm afraid in the. In the New York Times than in the say, the progressive press. Probably because they've probably think it's a good idea to end the isolation and misery of the Indians. Meaning, let's let's modernize so, but it's interesting that there is this tension, and I think it's not going too far to refer to it. You don't have to rely on any one source. To get into that, we've got a. You've got a white urban leftist who came down there, and. And what do after a few years, it looks like there was an agenda there. That's now. Part of this whole thing to Co opt Indigenous people. Indigenous cultures and move them into out of their quote isolation. And that's why, and it's not going so easily it. That's no surprise. It’s doesn't take too much to guess at that. That's why they've been holding out for centuries against empire and against against what the? Modernity wants from them, including including what the left as a part of modernity wants. For them and the other part of this,, perhaps. Perhaps related that communique from the Zapatista National Liberation Army? In its Galactic Commission, this dated the day before Christmas. They're they're starting an in Quintero. Which is. Going to be involving a lot of people, including our people outside of Chiapas. The support bases and the authorities of the autonomous municipalities and good government committees. Good government doesn't sound too indigenous to me. Let's have some good government. If you if you want to weigh in on this again 3460645. If maybe you think integration and. The way some people define independence, for example, Chomsky defines it as well. You've got to have. They have to have power, power they these countries in the South have to be the equals of the industrialized countries, so they have to industrialize, they have to develop. So development is and integration would enhance that development would would. Further it you like the EU or any other. Of the monopolizing formations or tendencies that’s what you get in order to compete. You form these blocks again like the EU, and that's just what they're trying to do. That's what that's a very big struggle going on over just that.

Speaker 2: So much of. What I feel like needs to happen right now is just. They need to stop, really. You know, I'm for some reason I was sort of reminded of this line that a friend told me where I where. I've been staying in the last few months, he said. Nature's Default Mode is healing and. Really, what we need to do to ? And a lot of. You know the difficult destructive tendencies that are perpetuated against the natural environment by industrialized nations is just to simply stop. And let the natural world. And it's not industrialization that's going to create independence, . It’s basically selling the seeds for. All of our eventual destruction, and in that way development is really just hip, really a hypocrisy. You know it's a violence with language that term.

Speaker 1: Right, right that too exactly. On the 27th, advancing water poses threat to Eskimo Village, another somewhat in depth article about. The chronic flooding that's going on in the Arctic and is wiping out peoples that have been there. The Yupik for example. Various communities of Yupik. Up there. It's just going away. The permafrost is melting, and the. The riverbanks are. Are eaten away by erosion. These Native Americand these are native Alaskan. Villages, more specifically are. Just completely being undermined and this global warming and it doesn't. You know it does Chomsky as have you heard about global warming and industrialization causes global warming? I mean, I guess that's just there's just one more cost. That needs to be paid to have to have mass society. And that you can find any number of sources of the impacts. Needless to say, it's, it's just completely there for anyone to see.

Speaker 2: Yes, so. Often a lot of political people on the left that they don't really have an ecological critique. You know that they're very much looking at. At developing nations and peoples as sort of social units, and they're not linking that to an environmental critique at all, and that in that sense these nations just sort of exist on top of the natural world and the natural world is just sort of taken for granted. Something that's not really. You know? Important, . It's just like the foundation that everything is built upon, and I think that's one reason why a lot of that . Politicians, if I might even call Chomsky that, ? They don't have an ecological critique. You know, they just don't. And they don't see the natural world for what it is. And they don't understand what's going on for that reason.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and at the same time, in the same sense they discount or completely ignore indigenous wisdom. People that have lived in harmony with the natural world for. For thousands of generations, that is meaningless to them. They don't see any pertinence there or relevance there. You know, that's So what? What has that got to do? With anything that's just that's the. That's how scandalous it is. It seems to me.

Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and there's a very short attention span. You know what he Chomsky's? Probably analyzing a period of, what? 200 years 300 years in his political analysis, that doesn't look at anything in the way of origins or in the way of, . Pre pre industrialism or ? Pre Nation state even for that matter all of these things are just more or less taken.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 2: Taken for granted isn't in his analysis. You know that they're naturalized, you gotta have nation states that's the way it's always been.

Speaker 1: Simply assumed as with his discussion of the Middle East, it's all. Yeah, we wouldn't even. Funny thing as anarchist who wouldn't even imagine that the solution involves not having nation states, that's you think that's pretty primary.

Speaker 2: I don't understand why you keep calling him anarchist. That's what OK?

Speaker 1: Oh well, no. I'm trying to do I maybe I was not making that clear. I'm just pillorying that idea. That's absurd. You know people who keep saying that it's I think It’s ridiculous what? What on Earth is anarchist about him? But then when you have, this something I was. I don't know I this something I tend to. Bring up more than once too, but they keep serving it up, so I'll have. To keep Speaking of gatherings and you were mentioning that one in South Florida. We could we could have a whole list of them, and there's tons of things interesting things coming up more toward the spring, and we'll get to that later on down the road. But the New York Metro Alliance of anarchists. Well, actually, and this sounds a little easier on to me. Frankly, the 6th this coming up on January 20. 1st is a Sunday meeting in New York City, the Sixth General Assembly of the New York Metro Alliance of Anarchists. That's 12 words for anyway, they’re want to organize to build a better world, forge elastic, anti authoritarian presence and build anarchist communities once again that really scary reify. How do you build and forge? Are we talking about people here? This sounds like the Communist Party. Is there anarchists in quotes like Trump?

Speaker 2: You got to form a concrete structure and you get hammers and nails.

Speaker 1: I guess. Right, right?

Speaker 2: That's exactly how you build a community.

Speaker 1: Build the movement, build the yeah. Build the community. Yeah, It’s reassuring. It seems it seems very human to me.

Speaker 2: Steel and metal and barbed wire.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh yeah, we need to take a break. Thanks, Carl. We'll be back. I want to ask you after the break about your time in Southern Californiand things like that if I could.

Speaker 3: OK. 2:00 PM

Speaker 4: BN Eugene

Speaker 3: KW, kW, kW BA Eugene hootz Oregon.

Speaker 4: You know?

Speaker 3: Using who's got over there?

Speaker 4: Passing through something on the road.

Speaker 5: Listen to the music.

Speaker 4: A little bit.

Speaker 5: Till you get feeling. Until you can feel it when you don't. She's been a bad girl. She's like a girl and you try to stop it. You wanna talk to her? You wanna talk to? Her all the things you paper. The temperature. Till you can feel it when you don't really need it. Until you get to feel it.

Speaker 1: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large. Oh, I'm looking out looking out the door looking down the hallway and we're on. The air, oh, we're on the air oh I thought so, OK.

UNKNOWN: Yes we are.

Speaker 1: Yeah, cricket you spent a few months down South lately.

Speaker 2:, yeah. I've been in Southern California in a town called Ohai, and I've been a been sort of just spending time with my family and working at a natural foods grocery store and just. It's more or less an apolitical scene down there. But it was sort of fun to work. Work at this grocery store where where they're delivering food right down the street, ? Into the produce case every day and they were just really, It’s of course in the guise of agriculture because that's the way it works. But they, the owners of the store, really had a commitment to bringing food that was from local farmers down there. And it's it was just great. You know, every day eating fresh vegetables. From farm and. Yeah, organic food was sort of the most political thing there, but it was.

Speaker 1: People were open to some conversations, though you were telling me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it was.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 2: It was fun, within the first or second day sort of getting into discussions about civilization and sort of kept that line going the whole time. I was down there and really, really just tried to imbue my conversations with some political content. And a lot of the times I was really surprised at how receptive people were or how pretty much taken for granted. You know they accepted the analysis. Well, of course. You know, like Oh yeah, yeah, there’s no doubt about that, so a lot of the times it's just frustrating to just sort of. Even get a dialogue started in terms of what civilization is. You know, a lot of the conversations didn't really go beyond that Page 1. But yeah, there's a lot of a lot of interest in, . Like Eugene, there's sort of a lot of like. You know do-it-yourself projects going on. You know there's like there's like a bike barn and . Just stuff like that. You know it's not quite the demographic of kids like there is up here, but there wasn't very many people and they're like mid 20s there. But it was sort of a nice three month experience and the little bit of a. Wild food gathering. When I was down there and enjoyed the no pallay which is also known as the prickly pear and the Lambs quarters which is in the quinoa family which is also known I guess in its indigenous name it's called 1 Salt Lake and if you if you. You can eat the whole quinoa plant. Basically, not just the grain that it makes, so it was a good experience. A lot of questions about how how fertile that place would be if it wasn't so irrigated. But because Southern California, It’s very chaparral I guess is the is the kind. Of . What's the word, ?

Speaker 1: They cover the brush cover that's on a lot of the hillsides.

Speaker 2: I guess so yeah, but I think that there is, there’s herbs down there. There's wild plants down there. I harvested a lot of white sage and a lot of yerba Santand a lot of pearly everlasting, which grows up here as. Well, so wherever you are, there's always. There's always wild foods and there's always medicine to heal you. You know you just gotta gotta look around, even if it's coming up through the sidewalk cracks.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you're open to that. That's great. I'm sure you learned a lot about the edible and some of the original. Plants that are still going strong in those areas.

Speaker 2: Huh, yeah, It’s a very very healthy bioregion in a lot of ways and It’s sort of opened up a lot of questions for me about, what? What a, what a post civilization living situation might look like and it. It’s sort of illuminated me in terms of knowing that the answer to that question is very much based on what the landscape tells you and what the land base tells you and what the land has to offer. You and it's how to survive. You know past civilization is very much going to be a question of context. If there's not going to be 1 answer for the entire world, to build, solidarity or something like that. You know it's going to. It's going to come from, the land itself and the bioregions themselves.

Speaker 1: That's the only universal is not a universal right? In that sense. In that sense, that's all. The living. Natural world is full of such variety. You know, one of the things I've noticed and It’s really struck me in terms of and you were mentioning people comes as a pleasant surprise to me and a a revelation. Once I thought about it, you were you were saying. That you were talking to somebody. There was reading end game, Derek Jensen's end game and I and I said the I was. talking with this woman or indirectly, or a group of people talking and this young woman who's who's talking about Derek's book about end game and was recently in the service in Iraq. And I was I was having a. It was a a disconnect. It was taking me a little. I was it took me a little time to get that you. Know that yes. But then I thought later I thought well back in the back in the 70s. I mean the 60s and 70s. Who were the most radical people of all? They came back from Vietnam. I mean they were they were way open to stuff they were. They had their minds opened up in a in a terrible way. I mean basically, of course but they these were folks, they weren't. I mean, I don't know how I forgot that, but of course I mean what? Why would you think somebody like that wouldn't be reading Derek Jensen and turned on by it and was very conversant with the book too, by the way. Hope to get to talk to her.

Speaker 2: Again, yeah, I think that's it's really been important for me to remember that and see really that anti civilization folks come from all over the place. You know it's not just the eco radicals. In some, really small context. It's people who are. Like you said in the military service, Oregon people who are, janitors or people who have established careers. And who understand this analysis and are trying to make steps to live their lives based on what this analysis implies. And I think It’s very hopeful for me. When I when I see how open people really are. You know, as I travel around from context to context and that yeah, a lot of the times it's no longer, collapse isn't something that people are viewing as crazy talk anymore. Collapse is something that's very real, .

Speaker 1: And it's occurring to people because it's happening. As we've talked about before. I mean, there's a lot of things that are well underway and. And I got something right here, I don't. Know it's not too exactly a smooth segue here, but it's the question of domestication. See, this was last week I was reading piece in the New York Times by Martin Fackler, Japan home of the cute and inbred dog. You know when you think about how freaky the most developed countries are, especially I think especially Japand the US in a lot of ways. This an article about mostly about dogs, these. These engineered dogs, these, for example these. Teacup poodles that are little, just smaller than your fist, just these little tiny things and. This this nice, you just keep messing with natural processes and obviously nothing new, but it's just. It just becomes more grotesque. This article goes on to say they've been dogs and they spend 10,000 or more on things. You know, in the empty consumer. Their culture of utter domestication. They've been dogs with brain disorders so severe that they spent all day running in circles and others with bones so frail they dissolved in their bodies. Genetically defective sister and brother puppies born with missing paws or faces. Lacking eyes and a nose. I mean, of course this a bizarre case, but when you think about it, that's. It's domestication, it’s. It's inner logic that it just keeps going and it just it becomes just these grotesque things. I mean you, you push. It just gets further and further from from anything that is. That is occurring in nature, or, that has some connection to the earth to the planet. I mean what? What craziness is that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I just again to repeat the line so much about, . Bringing down civilization, if you even want to use that terminology is really just stopping. You know, let's just not do that anymore. You know, let's stop engine genetically engineering dogs. You know it's funny that not really funny at all. But I draw parallel to that to some of some of the descriptions of those dogs. That reminds me some of the birth defects that I've been hearing about. Coming out of, . The wake of the 1st and 2nd Gulf Wars. You know some of the same things are happening., and they're not genetically engineering. You know they’re from, you, know the pollution that our weapons are creating. You know, not our weapons, of course, but the United States government's weapons.

Speaker 1: That's I think that's. You got to get down to that basic thing. As you say, stop doing it and well got to make that stop. Leave it alone. I mean that's that. I think that maybe will be seen as a anarchist. Watch word in a way. Just take your hands off it. Just . Quit doing this. Look what it's leading to and you and I both saw this. This of course the awareness that looks for alternatives or is trying to cope with this. Everybody's trying to cope with it in one way or another. I mean, of course some. Some one mode is absolute denial I don't read the paper. It's just too depressing or I don't want to know. I'm just, going to the store or whatever. And then of course as we know. So there’s an endless amount of sustainability nonsense. This sustainable, that's sustainable, and it isn't at all in any basic way. And this piece here about. It's about recycling computers and find recycle if there are computers they should be recycled, it's. You know, it's hard to argue that but what gets lost is, well, the very title of this piece. When refurbished takes on an Earth friendly vibe. Earth friendly, I mean, come on, it's if you've got this virulent cancer and you can slow it down like 1%. Suddenly, that's healthy. That isn't healthy. The same stuff is still going on. There's still, destroying the world that you got to have the industrial base to have computers and the and the net and the web. And the whole. Grid of the globalized world. But if so, if you recycle some, then it's all Earth friendly. Yeah, right? I mean it's crazy. That's not true at all. It's you want to you want to. You want to think that it is. We'd all like to be comforted with such illusions, but. You know, think about it for 5 seconds.

Speaker 2: Well, it's just the question of, . Of assumptions, it assumes that the computer needs to exist in the 1st place, and computers need to be there. If you blankety assume that computers are important and we need computers and we have to have computers. In fact life is not complete without computers. Then then you're gonna start, with the rationalizations. Ohh yeah, we can make them, 5% less less polluting than . Then we could be 4, .

Speaker 1: There's no communication. There's no nothing without computers, it's just unthinkable rapidly, yeah.

Speaker 2: The importance it becomes, in analyzing these articles to question the assumptions, that they're framing. Them in the 1st place, . What are the hidden assumptions that's certainly being one of them?

Speaker 1: Right? Right? Just don't if you the internal consistency of something or its own logic, well, then yeah, that's that you reach a. You reach a conclusion that makes sense, but what if the, as you say? What if the assumptions don't make sense? You know, if they're if they're destructive, then it doesn't matter what you. Whether it reads OK and I was doing this for a while while you were. Away I was having fun. Were talking about ads and AD of the week or sometimes there were several in the running and. And you could even take this one. This a full page ad from the from the New York Times last Friday. It's a pharmaceutical thing for chronic bronchitis, Advair is the is the market name significantly improves lung function to help you breathe better. Well great, I mean fine if you've got bronchitis. I mean you, you would probably think. Well, I want some of that, but of course. You know it's the technological solutionce again, and I was just reading about the San Joaquin Valley, the Central Valley of. Californiand how it amazingly polluted it is. I mean, it's not amazing. It's not you wouldn't see it as a great shocking surprise if you thought about it, but you think of all that the rural California. It's not so bad. Well, it is. It's really bad. I mean the amount of asthmand chronic bronchitis is just huge in a lot of these places. Down there, especially the I think the lower half of the Central Valley, and that's what's called the San Joaquin Valley. It's just horribly. Polluted, but then you can go on to say, and you can look at the environmental racism involved too. And in so many places that's just they just go together. The racism and the pollution. And the picture for this ad. And by the way, it's two very white people blowing bubbles and they're going to take the new latest pharmaceutical technology will solve. And it doesn't. It doesn't say if you said, well, what about the pollution, they'll say, whoa, yeah, we're against pollution, but what has that got to do with this thing that helps people breathe better? You know, and so there's not. You know, it's not a totally clear one versus the other, but when you think about it and like you said, when you coax out the assumptions, is this the answer? There'll always be there. There's always a technological fix for something. Oh, you can't breathe. You can't see to the next. Can't see across the road down there, in the San Joaquin Valley. Well, they got this ad there. Look at this. Read this. Take some of this. You know It’s all.

Speaker 2: Without ever questioning like why there's smokestacks, emitting horrible industrial pollutants, giving people cancer, disproportionately to people of color, etcetera etcetera. You know there's this cartoon that's called Futurama, and I can remember in one. Episode and It’s sort of a satire in a lot of ways and the show takes place in the year 3001 of their solutions for global warming and the year 3. Cousin this of course a totally industrialized techno world is they? They have this giant ice machine and they make a giant giant giant ice cube and they pick that ice cube up and they drop it in the water and that's their. That's their answer to a. You know, global warming is just. You know the technological solution of the giant ice cube dumped them.

Speaker 1: Like the Gulf, the waters in the Gulf are getting so warm, and then of course it pipes up the hurricane or you just put it an enormous ice cube there.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's absurd, but I mean, that's precisely the way that the power elites deal with solutions to you. To industrial to environmental problems, as they look at a very like mechanistic. You know mechanical, . Quick fix solution when .

Speaker 1: Any institutions or any basic market stuff or anything else. There was a this was announced at the end of last week. While they announced that the FDA. Is going to give. The OK to sell products of cloned animals, meat cows and so forth from cloned animals. And when you think about the this, this theme of how unhealthy things are. Well and also the bit about the freaky little dogs that have blue hair and they weigh 2 ounces and cost $10,000 in. Japan, the government's assessment. The FDAssessment concluded that milk and meat from cloned cows, pigs and goats and from their offspring were quote as safe to eat as the food we eat every. Day unbelievable, right? So what was that E. Coli thing and ? 50 other ways to get disease from. From food to spinach and every every other thing I mean the.

Speaker 2: It was really interesting the whole E. Coli thing, seeing that as I was working in a store where there's there's a farmer there. You know every day and seeing people very freaked out about spinach and I forget what the other one was. Maybe green onions or something like that.

Speaker 1: The Taco Bell thing that comes to mind, that's One of them and.

Speaker 2: Yeah, It’s because they're using animal products in their in their fertilizers. That's one reason why and people. You know? Are are quick to blame? You know organic agriculture or something like that like that's the reason why E. ColIs in a, Taco Bell or something like that one.

Speaker 1: Well, actually the this interesting. We saw this and I mentioned it on the air the one in the Salinas Valley. This the. The spinach thing, not the not the onion. Not the Taco Bell thing. The one a few weeks before that sickened people in 15 states or whatever. It was an organic farm, whatever that. Right, yeah, no, that doesn't mean much I guess. But and the guy was really they. I saw the interview with this fellow and he was really upset, because he was hoping that they weren't just reproducing all of the industrialized practices and everything and giving food, healthy food.

Speaker 2: Thanks for correcting me on that. Yeah, that's true, and it's just a warning that even organic agriculture itself is not necessarily better. If they're, using the same methods of farming, yeah.

Speaker 1: Good to see you man. I'm glad you're back and I'm glad you. Joined us here tonight and I hope we do it some more.

Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks John.

Speaker 1: We're going to what do we have? Here Beck to go out with.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got some back. It's good old Southern California music.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, again, if you're up in Portland Friday 7:00 o'clock at Laughing Horse benefit for Laughing Horse.

UNKNOWN: We are aimless.

Speaker 1: And the target is the Neppy wall.

2006

12-12-2006

Source

Speaker 1: Do your youngsters ever ask you? What did you do before television was invented? Now sometimes it's hard to answer that question in a way that they'll understand we read. And we played out in the fresh air a lot more. At least that's what we tell the kids. But maybe there's another answer.

Speaker 2: Cape Cape Cape DUP, DUP DUP WW BBB. HWB 888 point 1.1.

Speaker 3: Kwva, Eugene

Speaker 4: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 5: It was at the April 1981 Brixton that it happened and has such a friction that it ring about action and it spread over the nation and it was truly an American location. It was event of the year and I wish I had been there when we're running. When we March aplenty pull these van when we mash up the wicked one pound. When you mash up this one beauty 131, they make the ruler them understand that we're not that Nomura demonstration, and when michico they get up real fine, they fire you. Know I like. To define every rebel, just are rebelling and story the power and the glory. The burning under Newton. This much. And one innocent getting mark what? So wait for some time in our war in Star. So wait for some time in our war and so we're going. To March or to wicked one another, or when we March 31. Interaction the plastic bullet and the water cannon will bring our dam dam. We'll bring our dam dam. Never mind. We'll bring her dum dum. It was in April 1981. It was a filter of the year. Every rebel jobs are revealed in the story.

Speaker 4: It's anarchy radio for 1212063460645 and we're still archiving at archive.org. And on the Internet kwvradio.org. Well, we've got a couple of unexpected guests here. We got Patrick and Jeff and they're sitting in they might. They might jump in at any minute. I might ask him what's going on.

UNKNOWN: Not if you.

Speaker 6: Hog all those microphones over there.

Speaker 4: They're mine. Nobody gets to talk to me well, what's that?

UNKNOWN: Dance with the bat.

Speaker 4: That's right, we can't hear you, though they're trying to mutter over there complain about the bow guarding of the mics. No, I'll I'll. Yeah, what am I? I was boasting of having two mics and it didn't occur to. Them that means they have no mics. Well, I'll I'll slide one over well, but first of all, we want to just do some news announcements. First of all, you probably have heard by now, Pinochet. Died on Sunday and there was ample partying that may still be going on. Sunday night, especially 43 police officers, were injured. Thousands spontaneously gathered started gathering. I guess it was late afternoon and. In Chile, especially in Santiago. It was described one radio reporter said there was massive destruction in a 10 block stretch of the downtown. And also in Madrid and today. I think the funeral was today coffins were tossed into the river as a further. For their celebration. And another ruler who is not who hasn't expired yet unfortunately. Imagina bad no. I knew I was going to mangle out and Iranian President Ahmadinejad there is any closer.

Speaker 6: I think it's Ahmadinejad.

Speaker 4: Oh well, and then there's wahaka, which is somehow it's mispronounced too, but that's another story anyway, in Tehran.

Speaker 3: Well, that's a good one.

Speaker 4: That fundamentalist authoritarian regime. Gave a speech. What day was this? I think it was Monday, yeah? And the students. Got excited, burned his photograph through firecrackers at him, kicked his car so good. I guess it's even better if the ruler is still alive when you abuse him, huh? And last Thursday in Istanbul there's, been in Istanbul a couple of times I didn't. See any action there, but this this pretty good. There was a human rights organization. That was raided by the cops on Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday last week in downtown Istanbul. Anti prison activists clashed with the cops following that, protesters burned cars built St barricades out of burning tires. And debris, and so they didn't let that one go by. I like this one from Iceland that's been. Going on for a while. But the. Iceland, of course, isn't a very big place, but. Apparently the most well, the biggest remaining wilderness in Europe, is in Iceland, and there's there are all kinds of plans for new dams, power plants, smelters. I think there's a big aluminum. Thing going on there. Well now there's the opposition. I think this interesting. It's explicitly antIndustrialization. To bring that to a halt, and I think that's a step forward, it reminds me too, of the root force folk. Who will be doing their spring offensive on the West Coast and? Give you information about that later. This something for my friend Kevin our friend Kevin. Yeah he's this will keep him happy. Maybe Kevin if you're listening. I don't, I don't quote from your emails. I don't even read your emails. Come to think of it, no, no. But he, he, he told me the other day here he was in Cleveland there was. Rod Coronado benefit. Really good gig. On Saturday in Cleveland, for which I had very low expectations. And but there was zero Flack and some genuinely interested. Folks, this a workshop you do sat through my complete smashing of leftist holdovers revolution animal rights, sustainability, et cetera. So a good surprise. And Melbourne folks there. Let us know that they had this anarchist festival. I think it was. 10 days ago. And fellow there that we know he writes our anti Civil workshop was attended by 40 or 50 people. One of the best attended workshops of the whole festival I talked for maybe 20 minutes, gave the basics. What is civilizations? What is civilization origins? Primal lifeways domestications. Domestication, singular that is, and then an hour or more of lively discussion. Couple of leftists raised all the usual straw man arguments, all of which were shot down convincingly by others in attendance. And not just from our crew. And he publicly mentioned the possibility of starting a discussion list. With a mind to organizing Australia's first ever anti SIV gathering and a dozen people came up and gave me their addresses. Heartening news from Australia. Something this like this. I got to say this even though it sounds very egotistical I guess. But today a letter from Deriva Editores in Portugal. Asking your authorization to publish future primitive in Portuguese. I know this book is free of copyright, but I think it's better to publish the book with Portuguese collaborations and illustrations, et cetera. That's good. I just emailed them back saying, well, that's Real nice to hear. I wonder when that's going to happen. Well, later on down the road encore, the National Conference of Organized Resistance, is that right? Yeah, in early March. The anarchist book Fair in San Francisco and a long running sort of conference. Number of activities in the middle of March and as I said, the root Forest Roadshow will be traveling the Western states. As Speaking of opposition to dams and industrialization. And striking a blow at colonialism. And this I got to I got to get to this one here the International syndicalist conference is going to be held at the end of April in Paris. They want a worker controlled world. And because all around the globe, people are searching for a living wage and a better life. Apparently they don't even pretend to be anything but reformist anymore. That doesn't surprise me, but this one. This a better one. This even more of a killer. For Marxism, run amok. Here, a piece from Counterpunch. Was posted on infoshop and I'm not going to. I'm not going to detail this. I'm not going to read any part of it, but a doctor. Jason ribal. I think I'm pronouncing correctly. Jason ribal. He's talking about exploitation of animals, fine, excellent and important. But his idea is that animals and it's it starts off talking about seeing eye dogs Guide Dogs that sort of. Thing are actually exploited workers. They're they're not animals, they're exploited working because he's a Marxist, and then there was top it. Tom Chisholm, also known as T. In Speaking of this piece called enclosure of animals as workers, which uses Marxist analysis, he says in response I defend Ribal's idea that animals can be considered exploited workers. But what her ball is missed is that the worst exploitation of animals is not working dogs, but rather the. Chickens, pigs, veal, calves and other animals from far. Oh OK, comrade chicken, should we? What should we do here? I mean, wacko, OK, what I'm going to hand. I'm going. To I'm going to concede one of these microphones. I hate to do it. But there you go, isn't it big? It’s intimidating. It was. It was meant to be intimidating, so you won't be interrupting me or talking or anything like that. How are you guys?

Speaker 7: Doing doing all right, doing all right OK.

Speaker 4: Hey step up Jeff.

Speaker 8: Oh nice.

Speaker 4: We can't hear you if you're not. I mean, unless you don't.

Speaker 8: I'm doing nicely, yeah?

Speaker 4: Want to be? Here this great. You've been getting around. What do you, I wanted to ask you and I. This a horribly general question. I realize, but I’ve been reading things. Some of these and I'm going to get to this a little bit. Maybe we can talk about this too. Some of these recent books analyzing how far South things are going and how what a weird culture it is and the whole the whole thing is just getting worse, seemingly at a rapid rate. But I'm wondering what, what do you? What do you all see out there when you when you travel around a lot like trains and so forth? I mean, what do you have any? General take or maybe not general take, but something that hits you the most, relatively like that's changing or maybe not changing or.

Speaker 7: I mean, I mean, my deal is that I totally recognize like the same processes going on as the. All of the Roman Empire or something like that and like it started going worse, but like it's crumbling and it's crumbling in on itself already, and I, I feel like I've been sort of mainly hanging out in places that are, like the ghetto or whatever in different cities. And mainly like people, have really had enough and. It's. It's almost hopeful, but not quite you.

Speaker 4: Know I see, I see you mean the conditions are getting there or people realize how bad it is sort of thing.

Speaker 7: It's sort of just getting so bad that like people aren't, they aren't really taking it anymore, . But like, but like still trapped, so it's sort of this weird balance of how messed up is, but like, it's sort of. It's sort of crumbling in ourselves because we've reached that carrying capacity, but. But still, like not saying we're pretty civilized. So like we don't know exactly what's going on, what we're getting ourselves into.

Speaker 4: You yeah, how to make the. Brick yeah. Are we good sound wise?

Speaker 7: Like I think we just know. We want it. OK, I think people just they sort of like know that something's up and they like feel like they really want something. But like not sure how yet because we're so civilized.

Speaker 8: Strikes me as like. Or today I was thinking of it as like unwinding a ball of elastics. And you. You think really intently about it. And this microphone is really big. And you're always concentrating on this one. You know, trying to get one elastic off at a time, but sometimes it's just like you can't. It’s trapped under all these other elastics and I don't know I was thinking about that. And like reference to my own life and problems and stuff, but I see. It like that this. Huge huge ball. Of work to do, but you can tell. And it seemed it, but it seems like. All the taking apart all these elastics people are like ****, this. A big ball of elastics.

Speaker 6: You got to. Watch it.

Speaker 4: Should have told you that right? You mean it's all? It's because it's all tied together because it's all interrelated, so you pull one thing and then It’s a bunch of other connected problems, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

Speaker 8: Yeah, and it seems like that the. I don't know like. the understanding of seeing. That all these other things are all these things are connected. Is what I'm seeing a lot of, and when I look around at people and people doing things. It's like.. Just realizing how much we have, we have to like.

Speaker 7: People realize that it's like much bigger, much bigger issue these days than than sort. Of maybe some past revolutions or resistance, like it's much something that's been going on for thousands and thousands of years that we have to.

Speaker 8: Any any one single thing yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh, you see, a bigger sense of that, or a bigger awareness of that. Is that what you mean?

Speaker 7: Yeah, I think so. Think so. I think so.

Speaker 4: Well, that sounds hopeful, huh? Or at least potentially.

Speaker 8: Yeah, hopeful and a little dangerous.

Speaker 4: Well, it's it adds to the weight of it I guess. I mean, if you think wow, that's how deep it goes, then it's a bigger load to have to imagine.

Speaker 7: Right?

Speaker 4: To change, huh?

Speaker 8: Right, but at the same time it's. Like it's also plausible to work.

Speaker 2: OK.

Speaker 8: Because you can see it's all connected.

Speaker 4: Makes sense to me. You know I was looking at this book here. I've been reading this book. Actually it's a new one. By Morris Bermand I remember his book, oh, I guess it was maybe even in the 80s. The reachmen of the world. I was pretty impressed, although it seemed. Well, perhaps vague, but it was. It's a reverse of the Max Weber. The disenchantment of the world, how the rational. Technological bureaucratic world disenchants it takes away all the mysteries and all that sort of idea, and he and he was talking about. Reaching it and. I thought it was quite good as I recall, well it seems like. You know when you talk about is you were just referring to the magnitude of what we're facing and the magnitude of the crisis. You can get books like this. I mean people are people are making a choice. It seems to me or forced may be forced to make a choice in this case. This new book by Morris Berman. It's called Dark Ages America. The final phase of empire. And I would say what's positive about this book is how, how adequately I would say in a lot of ways. Anyway, he shows how far gone it is and just it's just wretched and. Although there’s a number of things left out on different levels, I would say but, but what I was really struck by and the more I read, the more it was underlined. Here is that Berman is somebody who. He sees the. He sees this development of consumerism and technology. And but what he gets out of it, the OR pretty much I haven't quite finished the book, but it seems like that the sum of what he gets out of it is. It's all up to the individual, and people are just stupid. They're just they've been made morons by consumerism, and they'll trample you for the new video game. And you better believe it and nobody reads nobody. Thinks people are just too stupid to figure anything out, . And were talking about this very briefly before. Don't you want to say if you think that's somewhat true, why is that? But he doesn't seem to. He doesn't seem to close with that. He doesn't seem to come to grips with it, and I think for some of us we would say, well, what is this progression that leads to this sad state of affairs? I mean would doesn't it make you want to question and challenge these these? The whole techno cultural. Imperative and consumerism. And but someone like bourbon and it'd be easy just to call him a liberal but, but that's what he is, and he's one of these people that he's not going to give up. Being a liberal, he's just going to. Turn on everybody else and say, well, you're just stupid but he's not. He's not proposing that we take on these, these these forces these dimensions. These dynamics that are that are producing all of this negative result in the culture. I mean you think? Why even write a book if that's all you have to say? You know if you if you don't want to. You know, do something about what's causing the situation. So in that sense, it's a very weird book. Really, because he just gets more and more sour and in American history you see populism that becomes soured. I mean the populist movements of the, say the 19th century, late 19th century turned to and I'm not saying this applies to. Berman, I'm not saying this at all, but one of the outcomes historically has been racism. They just turned to this ugly. They go to this ugly side because they're not. Going to tackle the basic stuff so then they just turn on other people like you're the problem and they actually know better, but they’re not going to become radical. They're not going to question the real thing, and that's so in a way it's a very interesting book, but almost to me. A case study of what happens to people that. They know how bad it is, but they're just not going to really tackle the whole thing and so you get this weird book, I think, anyway. And there are other ones like this. I was noticing by the way, just off the top. This 1 by a Marxist professor, landscapes of the soul, the loss of moral meaning in American life for fairly interesting book, but the same cast in a way he talks about moral malaise. But why? What is the reason for this malaise? This postmodern indifference, and. Again, the consumerism. The no value sort of thing. There’s a lot of books that way, but they don't go anywhere. They just they just kind. Of point out the obvious. Yeah, people turn to buying stuff. What else you got? I mean we've got to show that there's some. There's some way to bust out of this? There's some reason to, and there's something outside of it and underneath it that you can go to and connect with. For example, indigenous wisdom, for example. How people live for millions of years before before all this started going so fast in this weird direction, isn't that interesting? Well, it's not to these people that they're just they're not interested. Anyway, ranting and raving here. Well, here's here's another one. The peace worker. The peace worker. Yes yes. I haven't talked about the peace worker in a while. This the December issue. Quickly three articles. The lead article Iraq war, undermining U.S. financial health. In other words, so if it didn't undermine quote U.S. financial health, then it's OK. I mean what are they? What do they do? It's just it's just dumb and then, well, here's another one. One of the one of the editors is having a nice community rake. The leaves thing led by this cop. And the article actually says this. Cop was also dismayed at the beating death by police of James Chass, the schizophrenic St person broken to pieces by rogue members of the Police Department. Unbelievable rogue members. Have they ever been held to account? I mean when you talk about Rogue Members, this exactly the ethos of yeah, this schizophrenic guy. They just jumped on him and broke like 20 ribs broke him just flat and they just killed him. Just mangled the guy. Yeah, I guess those are rogue cops. Yeah, they're all. They're all rogue cops. If you're a liberal that likes to rake leaves with some other. Pig up there. And then the other one this. This the editorial. Don't rest on your laurels election night. This year was a wonderful night to feel identified with Democrats, the sweep of successes made one feel heady, if not giddy. Whoa, you talk about credence. I mean unbelievable it. How canyone ? Maintain that for a second. I mean, that's how you guarantee things will just keep getting worse. You just keep playing the game that they set out for you and notice that changes nothing except for the worse.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I just want to say something about that. I got a ride from this guy who is going to see his brother-in-law in Palm Beach who just had a heart attack anyway.

Speaker 4: Where were we?

Speaker 7: He's like he was like this very interesting character I met that was talking about Social Security and how. That when the Democrats won and they changed a little bit, he got a raise in his Social Security to from like from 800. Something dollars to $1000 a month and then? But with all these other fees of other stuff like that, he ended up owing them money and ended up his Social Security going down to like 700 something and like sort of. He's like trying to live off like 7. $100. A month and like I don't know. It's he doesn't pay his taxes.

Speaker 4: Didn't didn't quite work out the election night.

Speaker 7: This House, no, it didn't quite work out, no?

Speaker 4: Oh, that's sad. You were this guy going to Florida to see his brother.

Speaker 7: This guy's going. To California, it was like Southern California.

Speaker 4: Yeah oh phone oh OK, we got a call.

Speaker 6: Yeah, Mel.

Speaker 4: Mel hi there we don't have.

Speaker 3: Hi there. I recently.

Speaker 4: Yeah go ahead go ahead.

Speaker 3: I recently picked up a copy of future primitive for just 350 at Smiths Family. I was enjoying it quite a. Bit and I've. Often struggled with the problem of people identifying as workers more thanything else., the idea of dragging people away from that as their identity and getting to theart of that and getting away from money. And I was curious what you would do in the situation of like direct destructive action where there's some bondings at banks and ATM's are disabled. And bringing in the National Guard, what would you do in that scenario? Would it be an opportunity to?

UNKNOWN: You know, speak to.

Speaker 3: Some fresh ears. Or would you have to go underground?

Speaker 4: Oh I myself, I don't think I'd have to go underground. I mean, are the people that are actually out there doing it? They're the ones they're taking the risk that strikes me offhand, and but I think, as you implied, yeah, it sure is an opportunity to. To start discussing a lot of things that were obviously prevented. From doing when, when law and order prevails, I mean it's any number of things that we could just try to jump on in that whatever space is open up. To do it and try to help. You know to be a part of that offensive against the. Against the prison of. Of what's ? Usually the case is that what you were talking about, that type of thing.

Speaker 3: Yes, people taking direct destructive action against the prison of ordered time and wage slavery. And for example, I remember in the context of the AIDS crisis there was an. Idea to cover. Up statues and so forth, maybe a day without art, because so many artists were dying from AIDS and it. And to me this was not going to have. Any effect on people, but in that context? If their TV's and cell phones and access to money where interrupted or taken out that this would have you. Know a real? Effect and what this involves, then, is the destructive impulse, which has an interesting relationship to the positivity. Inherent when you speak of indigenous wisdom, ways of being that is not the so desperate, but at some point a breaking through or into needs to occur. And this the destructive impulse will. Certainly play a part in which you may see as desperate, but that just was wanted to get your feelings on that. And obviously, yes, it would be a platform to.

Speaker 4: Yeah, this.

Speaker 3: Give you fresh eyes.

Speaker 4: I completely agree that's that famous Bakunin quote about destruction as a creative impulse. There are so many things in the way and they need to be broken through to, to go forward. There's so many things that the president would passes for opposition is just really reinforcing the chains that people have. I mean, when it there's just, there's just a million different cases of that, but when things do happen and that rupture is never is never predicted by anyone, then you. One thing people see is the fragility of the controls for example, I mean that many examples, I'm sure, but the technological. The interdependence, everything that it has the different ways that is vulnerable and starts to starts to implode that mean. These things that run smoothly, they that can be that can disappear in a hurry. And then it's up to people to decide what, then? You know, let's rush into that void and do something.

Speaker 3: Yes, well that's a very inspiring tableau you have there. Is there instances? Is there much of this destruction of ATMs or even bombings of banks that happen in the continental United States?

Speaker 4: No, I don't. You know there are different episodes, but in terms of opening up significant social space. You know you. You can look at different things and say that. This part of it. But in terms of society, I mean you, I think you'd have to go back all the way back, perhaps to. What happened in France in 68 when people and it really wasn't very violent? Because so many people were involved and up to 10 million people were just bypassing all the structures for a while until the unions and the parties and so forth. Brought it under control, but there are other cases of near to hand that happen. Sometimes they happen strictly accidentally, like the power blackout in New York or something like that where people come together and find that there's a liberated space or start to use it as such and create it. So there are. There are a lot of possibilities, but I don't. Maybe somebody else can think of. Others, other examples or other situations.

Speaker 3: Well, I just loved to see more of it. Have you ever read greil Marcus's lipstick traces? The history of the 20th century?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: I mean, it's sort of it's about music to some degree of course. But when you talk about the 68 riot they go into that.

Speaker 4: A bit, yeah, he's he's got. He had some of it there. Yeah it was. It was a good introduction to that I think.

Speaker 3: Yes indeed all right. Well, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 4: Thanks for calling Mel.

Speaker 3: My pleasure.

Speaker 4: Take care. Well, It’s if we had more. Headphones we might have been able to bring you in here. Sorry about that. I thought maybe there wouldn't be any calls anyway because it's the break, but I think next time I’m just going to pass off the my headphones over over your way. If somebody else calls, that was a pretty interesting call. Did you hear any of that on that?

Speaker 8: I couldn't hear it.

Speaker 4: Not really. It's hard. Carl was trying to. I mean, one example. Thisn't maybe precisely what the caller was referring to, but. You know what? What are we accepting as some things with radical possibility? I see on infoshop and some of these other boards and the stuff about the Wobblies trying to get contracts. And this the current thing the striking Goodyear workers. They're part of the steel workers, now they were gobbled up the rubber the tire makers mostly in Ohio I guess. I think they're still mostly around Akron. The United Steel Workers Union swallowed them up in the mid 90s, but and, I'm going to make it perfectly clear for what I was a I was a laborganizer way way back. I was a union organizer at one point and I'm sure as heck not against people getting getting a better deal. You know, changing their conditions, but. But what I do? Take issue with is presenting that as some radical thing when you're only reinforcing these structures. For example, this today. It was announced that Saturday, December 16th it will be the National Day of Action by striking Goodyear workers. And so this this support stuff by anarchists. This that's why this was here and the people are going to go topeka in terms of the Kansas region. And these are folks in Lawrence. I think that cooked this up. And anyway, what's telling about this. This just four or five sentences. This call to do this they're working lives are at stake, etcetera. As they've said before, and it's all about the striking good. Your workers striking Goodyear workers nationwide, striking Goodyear workers that phrases in three successive sentences. They never say the Union, and that's because. Everybody knows what the Union is in a lot of ways. It’s really a prison for workers and that's why they can't, even that's what they're supporting. Though they're supporting the Union and until people break through that and. They can rush around supporting this or that strike called by the bureaucracy of the Union. They all end up as identical as any cop, brutalizing or killing. Somebody gets exonerated. All of these strikes are totally under the control of the unions due to the structure of it to the very nature of it, and they don't seem to. They don't seem to care. I mean, it's just it's And then they presented as oh the glorious class struggle or something, but they haven't even figured out what unions are and then how that has to be. There has to be a rupture with that, but they never. These leftists never do that. They just never do and. It’s bizarre as if they don't want to go anywhere, they just want to keep playing the game. I mean that to me, that's just one example I've been seeing so much of this stuff. Celebrating the. Starbucks workers and again, I'm. I'm hope they get somewhere. I hope they get somewhere, but it's but it's another thing to say. This part of some radical struggle, it's. In those terms, it is not. Ohh yeah Gee, we're we should probably take a break. Good thanks Carl.

Speaker 9: Brown staples

Speaker 2: It's cancelled, yes the.

UNKNOWN: Big guy.

Speaker 9: It's just a few hours away. To do your shopping at the last mall. And the medicine for the flu. Sweet treats and surprises.

Speaker 3: The little

Speaker 9: All of the standard. You have to do it for yourself. Check out girls goodbye.

UNKNOWN: Ride the wrap.

Speaker 9: The sea way. Need the blood on sky. To do your shopping. We've got a sweetheart, something special. All of the standard. You have to prove for yourselves when we're going next. Oh, you can't think of. It's the check out. Ride the ramp. To the freeway. No shopping. No shopping.

Speaker 3: That's the last mall.

Speaker 4: The views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of KWV, a radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large. We're back and a deteriorating thing is the industrialized food supply. Always amusing in a macabre way. It's not amusing. I'm not amused. It's quite serious anyway. The ad of the week. Full page New York Times ad from today, December 12th. This a memo takes up a whole page from Taco Bell. Carlos is feature. Taco Bell food is safe. That's that's the title.

Speaker 6: Oh, is that why all those people were getting sick and diet from all that safe food they're eating?

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's saved, yeah. Very safe and we're deeply concerned. This great, . Yeah, and a bunch of them are still close so they don't even know if it's the onions or the scallions or. What I mean, it's all it's like the spinach it'll. It'll make you sick. It's just this factory.

Speaker 6: It's not all like the stuff they pump into, it is it's.

Speaker 4: Oh well, that's another thing they're not concerned about that.

UNKNOWN: Not, that's.

Speaker 6: That's good stuff.

Speaker 4: It says. Samples from our entire menu were collected from multiple restaurants in multiple states for testing by an independent laboratory, and from that testing all Taco Bell ingredients have come back negative for E. Coli, with the possible exception of green onions.

Speaker 9: Oh yeah, maybe .

Speaker 4: That'll kill people, but that's only one exception. I mean, come on, be fair, we're concerned. And if you and we have a toll we have. Established a toll free number. One 800 Taco Bell.

Speaker 6: Oh, jumping into action.

Speaker 4: If you can get there before you die of E. Coli, to sign Greg Creed President Taco Bell.

Speaker 7: All I can say on that is that near my hometown in Vermont there was this Taco Bell who this not A-fib who was busted for serving dog food in the burritos.

Speaker 4: Wow, we.

Speaker 7: And had to shut down, yeah?

Speaker 4: She Wiz.

Speaker 8: Wow, that's pretty low.

Speaker 4: Dog food well, maybe it's healthier than some.

Speaker 8: Yeah, very very true.

UNKNOWN: Of the others.

Speaker 4: Whoa, shut them down. How did they?

Speaker 7: Find out just like some health minister came through and blasted them.

Speaker 4: Wow, yeah it's and then there's the world's largest cruise ship for the second time. Another outbreak of some severe gastrointestinal. Distress, shall we say, yeah, the world's largest cruise ship keeps happening with industrialized tourism as well as. And of course, what this leads to. And if you don't have to be anarchist necessarily to be concerned about this, part of this just one. Part of it. What it's it just gives more power to the state because who wants to have this insecurity? Because never going to Taco Bell would be the first thing you could do, but so they’re going to be pushing for. A much bigger government. And for a good reason. I mean, the growers have resisted that, but they're not. They're starting to fall in line because. If nobody buys spinach or goes to Taco Bell, well, a little government regulation, they don't care about that and. I don't know why this why this vaguely connected. More and more articles about these energy drinks and how many. People apparently even addicted to this, the. I didn't know this. This was also today's paper, nearly 200 new energy drinks have hit store shelves since January. 200 new brands and that unbelievable the revenues have increased by 51% in the last year alone and they go into the billion. Billions of dollars. Apparently people really love to be wired. You know, I don't know what it is. And of course It’s. Also, I would. I would imagine it's another way to gauge how exhausted people are. I'm sure that's part of it. It isn't just teenagers wanting to get to. A big buzz from drinking. You know? 500 milligrams of caffeine, but there are, you working two jobs or you. You know you. You're just getting dragged by the whole treadmill, rat race stuff and so you're. You know they're getting pushed further and further into unhealthy. Crazy stuff does this include?

Speaker 7: The energy drinks that are mixed with alcohol.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it does. Caffeine and alcohol. Yeah, that in there too I think and they throw everything in there. I mean they and of course they don't know what the long term. Effects, I mean they don't know the long term effects of anything but this. This stuff, . Probably it might be quite horrible. They don't, they don't know. They don't. Care and peddle this stuff and.

Speaker 8: Gee, I wonder why their sales have increased so dramatically.

Speaker 4: Yeah, the most famous recent one is the one called cocaine. Yeah Oh yeah. Yeah, this this big. They had a lot of stuff on TV about this and it's big red cans. It's cocaine and big big. Letters, yeah. And they just and they said, yeah, we're. We're just trading on the shock value of the name, right? And endorsing, I guess. So yeah. Sure people were upset about that. You know, cocaine isn't that hip.

Speaker 8: From Coca-Cola.

Speaker 4: Isn't that cool and?

Speaker 8: What's that? They totally stole that from Coca-Cola?

Speaker 4: There you go. Yeah, you've been a red can. Yeah, that's pretty good. Well, this something I don't know if. Maybe you, maybe you all could shed some light on this. I know a guy who is a. He's a farmer north of town here, northwest of town, and he's he's one of these people that's in to. No power, that is all animal power and there are different. There are different things going on out there.

Speaker 7: That Marxist would consider that exploited workers.

Speaker 3: I think that.

Speaker 4: I guess so. Oh, definitely yeah, they're exploitable. Yeah, that's right, but this guy hasn't read this article, I guess. Anyway, he was telling me about this. I ran this guy's very sharp guy was. There's something called the National Animal Identification system.

Speaker 8: NIS Yeah.

Speaker 4: You heard about that news to me. Partly because of all of the salmonella mad cow, and all the rest of it. There's a million seemingly proliferating health threats to industrial food, especially meat, even more so in meat. And this, yeah, this too. I guess what do they have chips for? All the yeah.

Speaker 8: You're you’re required to. Get all your animals registered and I'm not exactly sure if there is a chip implanted in every animal. I mean, I can't fathom that, but. That'll happen soon. Yeah, right? The chips are getting smaller and smaller.

Speaker 4: And like the workers are all registered in the unions and everybody and they have control. And but they but one of the things among others. This friend of mine was pointing out that. This a bizarre little thing which isn't so little. It's really a means of getting rid of small farmers, right that are not the big ones.

Speaker 8: Exactly, they're ones here.

Speaker 4: In fact, the big ones are exempt. This in the legislation, hasn't been passed yet.

Speaker 3: No way.

Speaker 4: Yeah, really. The big the big giant.

UNKNOWN: That's the.

Speaker 8: Whole problem, that's where all this salmonella comes. From or what?

Speaker 4: Exactly, it's you think so.

UNKNOWN: What ends up?

Speaker 7: Putting with the. Verification system is that you have to. It pays you have to pay to register and you have to register every birth and death and so like for example chickens and moving for example like chickens like a lot of chicks die at birth or like not at birth, but like shortly thereafter right and so.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 8: And moving.

Speaker 7: You end up having to like cough up like in a week or whatever like cough up tons of money. So like you just end up getting sort of deeper in debt. Because you. Can't you can't do that.

Speaker 4: What because of the what?

Speaker 7: The paperwork no. If the you have the you have to pay to register every birth and death and so like in a week in a week in a farm you could have what like 15 deaths like.

Speaker 4: Oh, right, it's fee.

Speaker 7: If you're a small farmer, like.

Speaker 8: Sure, no. It really spells doom for the little guys, yeah.

Speaker 4: The little guys, especially if the. Big Agri business firms that don't even have? To do it at all.

Speaker 8: That's amazing, that's too blatant man that's.

Speaker 4: Isn't it something? Yeah, it just sounds like a parody. Or something, and yeah, they're they've been quietly pushing this.

Speaker 8: Yeah, it has been really quiet.

Speaker 4: And of course, they're.

Speaker 8:, it's true. It's. It's really scary.

Speaker 4: That's yeah, it's people should. I don't know. Pay attention to that, it's ah. When more. Bizarre thing. Speaking of bizarre things, another thing I found out today, I'm going to be up at Laughing Horse. In Portland. January 5th right after the. I don't even know what day of the week, but. That just got set. Let's see what else? Well Gee, lots of stuff here, but some of it takes a while. We've got less than 10 minutes here. Oh, here's a new book and I've only seen a couple of reviews. I haven't read this. I don't think it's I'm not even sure it's available, but the old way. A story of the first people by Elizabeth Marshall. And this about the kung of the Kalahari Desert and in South Africa. And I thought I didn't know that this writer was still. Was still writing and I turns out I was thinking of her mother. Lorna Marshall and this her daughter actually, and it sounds like it sounds like a marvelous book and this from you. Might want to keep your eyes open for this one. This from. A pretty good review, it sounds like, but the book is also a reminder that we ignore our biology and our environment at our peril. We are, after all, primates who depend on all the systems of the living planet for our survival. Although quote no human population lives by the old way any longer, Thomas writes. Even so, it clings to us still. In our preferences in our thoughts and dreams, and even in some of our behavior. Well, it describes in part anyway the breakdown of people that were still. Peoples's hunter gatherer collector. Whatever you call it and for example, described. Makes one think of. Of indigenous people on this continent. Tragically enough, she writes. Not a few people committed suicide by stabbing themselves with poison arrows. Talks about their angry despair when their when, their whole way of life, their whole. Material culture was. Was being wrecked and. Sedentism all the diseases come in the whole story of the whole story of civilization all over again. And also today new studies about the Arctic Ocean could be all open water. Several decades earlier than previously expected. The something called global warming. I think it is.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I think I've heard.

Speaker 4: Of that, have you heard of that? Yeah, also today I read at least half of the world's 250 turtle species are considered endangered or threatened. And it will be 2014 and this from. This from something called the Global Institute. In the year 2014, China will have passed or will have gotten to the point of the US. They will be crossing trajectories. At that point, in terms of how much. Global warming gases they produce meaning, of course, that. The frenzy of industrialization in China will. Produce that not so far away 6-7 years. You know I, I can't really talk about this at length, but I wanted to mention. I referred to this in the briefest fashion at the end of last week. A piece that I'd like to make. I'm assuming it's OK to circulate this. Thomas will let me know if. In Finland, if it isn't, he wrote a piece called a language beyond symbolic thought and part of it is a direct critique of theories of Noam Chomsky about universal grammar. And what is built in what is inherent? What is hardwired to humans? And Thomas talks about. For instance. He talks about a group that was recently. Well, I think discovered is the wrong word, but the piraha people in South America who don't have number or tense recursive sense of time in their language. Somewhat to the contrary of what is. Automatically or sort of generically human, and he points out that the Chomsky, in theory is smacks of racism and colonialism. If you, if you define human by these by this by these senses. The Piraha people do quite well without them. Thank you. Anyway, this this an excellent. An excellent essay. Where are you? What are you all up to? Do you were saying something about an operand hear about that?

Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I'm totally working on opera right now. That's the coolest thing in the world. It's sort of taking all these crazy characters that I've met over my travels in the past couple years and not necessarily home bums, but like, really awesome, awesome people who have these really crazy hysterical stories and. Sort of. Anyway, sort of taking that and putting that in. This really hilarious song format. And so a lot of like slapstick clowning and different things as well and. Yeah, I don't know, It’s just really really.

Speaker 4: Funny, so it's wonderful. Some folks in Californiare collaborating on that.

Speaker 7: Some yeah, some folks are collaborating in Oakland, CAnd it seems like we may be getting a warehouse and sort of doing two different things or one that's more permanently and then one they'll be traveling.

Speaker 4: Super, that sounds fun. Times exciting. Yeah, you'll be going down there you are, you heading South.

Speaker 8: Too, Jeff. Yeah, eventually I'm going to go back to Oakland, yeah? Trying to help him out with some of. The video end of the opera yeah.

Speaker 4: Ohh yeah ohh good that we video. Cool enough.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it's going to use some multimedia different things.-huh, shadow puppets and stage and music and.

Speaker 4: Hey Carl, is the shadow puppet person. Definitely yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6: Yeah, the shadow puppet stage I think is no more. It was at the Jawbreaker. I think it got. I think it got removed. We'll do it again. So I've been thinking about different like little panorama.. Video stuff, but in a panorama. Little diorama Dioramic panorama or a panoramic diorama.

Speaker 4: Right? Thanks for falling by, this great. This quite a happy accident. It's good to see you.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really sweet.

Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4: My pleasure. OK, we're going to wrap it up. See you next week.

UNKNOWN: Tickle me down to my toes. Oh my.

12-05-2006

Source

11-28-2006

Source

11-28-2006

Source

11-21-2006

Source

11-21-2006

Source

11-14-2006

Source

11-07-2006

Source

10-31-2006

Source

10-24-2006

Source

10-17-2006

Source

10-10-2006

Source

10-03-2006

Source

09-26-2006

Source

09-19-2006

Source

09-19-2006

Source

09-12-2006

Source

09-06-2006

Source

08-29-2006

Source

08-22-2006

Source

08-15-2006

Source

08-13-2006

Source

08-08-2006

Source

08-08-2006

Source

08-01-2006

Source

08-01-2006

Source

07-25-2006

Source

07-18-2006

Source

07-11-2006

Source

07-04-2006

Source

06-27-2006

Source

06-20-2006

Source

06-13-2006

Source

06-06-2006

Source

05-30-2006

Source

05-25-2006

Source

05-18-2006

Source

05-09-2006

Source

05-09-2006

Source

05-02-2006

Source

05-02-2006

Source

04-25-2006

Source

04-18-2006

Source

04-04-2006

Source

03-28-2006

Source

03-21-2006

Source

03-14-2006

Source

03-07-2006

Source

02-28-2006

Source

02-21-2006

Source

02-07-2006

Source

Speaker 1: This free speech. Radio news. It's Tuesday the 7th of February, 2006 from KPFK in Los Angeles. I'm audah bugado on Capitol Hill. Donald Rumsfeld praises the White House's proposal to raise military spending and ask for more. Haitian voters head to the polls today, two years after the US, French and Canadian backed coup d'etat. And the fate of 350 families lies on disputed land. We'll hear the update from the South Central farmers. All that post stories from Connecticut to France and more after theadlines.

Speaker 2: I'm Brian Edwards teechart with theadlines for free speech, radio news. The Israeli military has stepped up its assassination campaign against Palestinian militants in Nablus today, Israeli soldiers shot dead in Islamic Jihad leader. During an arrest raid. In southern Gazand Israeli air strike killed two members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. Last night, a similar strike killed 2 Al Aqsa members in northern Gaza. In Israel, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said today that if his Kadima party wins next month's elections, it will try to establish Israel's final borders within two years. Mofaz says he's willing to negotiate with the Palestinian leadership. But left open the possibility that Israel could pursue another unilateral withdrawal from occupied Palestinian 10. Story critics charge that such unilateral moves distract international attention, while Israel consolidates its hold on the most valuable occupied land. A new report released today shows that the number of Israelis living and occupied Palestine actually increased during theadline grabbing withdrawal from Gaza. Leilal Haddad has more.

Speaker 3: The new report, by settlement watchdog group Peace Now says that even during the much publicized withdrawal of 9000 settlers from Gaza last year, around 10,000 more Israelis moved into illegal settlements across the occupied West Bank. The report says there are now over 250,000 Israeli settlers living in the occupied. West Bank there are also 102 unauthorized outposts in the process of getting official recognition. None of them were evacuated last year. Palestinians expressed anger over the ongoing growth of Israeli settlements and accused the Israeli government of grossly violating its commitments under the stalled road map to peace under the US sponsored road map. Israel is obliged to freeze all settlement activity, including natural growth, and demolish all outposts established since March 2001 for free speech. Radio news in Gaza. This legal.

Speaker 2: Norwegian officials announced today that the Sri Lankan government and Tamil Tiger rebels will hold their first high level peace talks in three years. Ponya, Monika Vasum reports from Vavuniya.

Speaker 4: In recent months, over 150 people have died in escalating fights between Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers and government forces. Both have been party to a ceasefire brokered by Norway since 2002, but subsequent talks broke down in 2003 over power sharing disputes. The rebels want sweeping. Autonomy, but the government says that could lead to ethnic divisions in the small island nation. Of 19 million people, Norwegian officials said today the Sri Lankan Government and the Tamil Tiger rebels will hold a high level peace talks on February. 22nd and 23rd in Geneva. They will be the first such talks in three years for free speech radio news. I'm punya manika vasantham in Vavuniya. Sri Lanka.

Speaker 2: Many of the people displaced by Hurricane Katrina will lose the federal assistance paying for their hotel rooms today, KPFT's Renee Feltz reports that some still have no place to go.

Speaker 5: About 25,000 evacuees remain hotel rooms. 20,000 of those sought extensions from FEMA by January 30th that will allow them to. Keep their rooms. Roughly 5000 evacuees did not seek extensions. Others, like former 9th Ward resident Roosevelt, sought assistance and were denied.

Speaker 6: I had to come up with all a bill in my name saying that I was staying at this resident. I had to have ID some type of phone rent receipt and I didn't have. I had a rent. I had a lease. But I didn't have ID because everything was destroyed up in hurricane.

Speaker 5: Roosevelt was packing his bags in the parking lot of Houston's Summit Inn. His friend and neighbor, former Uptown resident Aaron Browser, will remain the hotel. FEMA granted him an extension to February 13th. He hopes he can return home by then.

Speaker 7: None have become available for me as of yet. But then it may. It may caught me. Tell me it's ready. I’m more than I'm ready to go.

Speaker 5: FEMA continues to seek housing for evacuees still in hotels who cannot return to their homes from KPFT in Houston. I'm Renee felt for free speech. Radio news.

Speaker 2: Eva Scott King was buried today. Her funeral drew luminaries from around the world. President George W Bush said she created a better, more welcoming. Three, but Bush winced visibly when southern Christian Leadership Conference co-founder Reverend Joseph Lowery attacked the invasion of Iraq, and the neglect of America's poor. Former President Jimmy Carter pointed out that Hurricane Katrina exposed disparities in American Society that persists to this day. He also pointed out that Scott King. And her husband, Martin Luther King Junior endured civil liberties violations in the form of secret government surveillance. I'm Brian Edwards techert for free speech. Radio news.

Speaker 1: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld praised the White House's proposal to raise military spending in its 2007 budget proposal, asserting that the money is needed to benefit the needs of the military. But in his testimony today to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Rumsfeld added that military spending should be increased. And some senators agree. Leanne Caldwell has more from CAP.

Speaker 8: Hill this year's proposed defense budget is up 7% from last year, but Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says it could be higher as defense funding is less than four per cent of the economy. A percentage, he says, is low, but many senators on the Armed Services Committee who were discussing budget proposals with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And other top military officials were cautious to criticize the defense budget, some going as far as saying that it won't adequately fund war efforts. The budget proposal for the Pentagon is $439 billion this year. That doesn't include an additional $120 billion for war supplementals, which is expected later in the year, a notion that concerned Republican Senator John McCain from Arizona.

Speaker 9: Are you going to continue to do business by coming up here with quote emergency supplementals which thoroughly bypass the entire authorizing process which is supposed to be the way the Congress the United States operates?

Speaker 10: Senator, as this an issue that the. Senior leadership in the Congress works out with the president and the Office of Management and Budget. From my standpoint, I could do it either way.

Speaker 8: That would increase defense spending at nearly $560 billion this year. But Winslow Wheeler, director of the Strauss Military Reform project at the Center for Defense Information, says that our military spending is misguided, as the United States spends more money on defense than the rest of the world combined.

Speaker 11: Our defense budget should be based on the nature of the threat and its magic. Food the shortage is not of money in our budget. The shortage of is of tough decisions to make important choices between potentially successful and potentially unsuccessful weapon systems and other forms of wasteful spending.

Speaker 8: One aspect of wasteful spending Wheeler is referring to is a missile defense program that is slated to receive large increases in funding. Ranking Democrat on the committee. Carl Levin from Michigan agrees.

Speaker 12: This operationally configured missile defense system has never had a single successful intercept test. The simple truth is we don't know if the system will work. The department is seeking additional funds in this budget request to build and deploy more of these untested and unproven interceptors.

Speaker 8: Senators are concerned with the major overhaul of troop alignment and which thus funding will be provided for the National Guard. Republican Senator Susan Collins from Maine.

Speaker 13: How do you intend to ensure? That there are a sufficient number of troops available without further stressing the guard.

Speaker 8: Responding as chief of staff of the Army General Pete Schoomaker.

Speaker 15: One of the reasons we surge National Guard guard presence over the last year year and a half, which will provide time for us to restructure. And modularize the active force.

Speaker 8: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld says the military's transforming from a Cold War era military to one that will sustain a war that could last a generation, which is now referred to as the Long war rather than the War on Terror. Many of this year's budget proposals, discussed with the Senate Committee today reflect programs from the Quadrennial Defense Review. And analysis of the Defense Department conducted by the Defense Department without an independent oversight, he said budget proposals are in line with priorities to fight this long global war. Funding for intelligence and counterterrorism programs will increase. The Pentagon will try to also increase the number of active duty troops and the budget for special Operation Forces will double from 2001 levels and funding to refurbish military equipment is also proposed. A few senators, though openly worried that although the budget is necessary. The country can't afford to cut other budget programs including education, Medicare and Transportation which could see the largest cuts for free speech. Radio news I'm Leon Caldwell.

Speaker 1: The Senate is set to decide tonight on whether they should vote on a bill that would set up a $140 billion fund for people harmed by asbestos exposure. The bill, which has largely been supported by Republicans and a handful of Democrats, has sparked controversy. Some Democrats are accusing Republicans of shaping the bill to support the corporate interests of companies like General Electric, while Republicans say that Democrats are being obstructionist by attempting to block the vote from taking place. Celina Masuta has more from Washington.

Speaker 16: Patient rights advocates trial lawyers, some manufacturers and unions are campaigning heavily this week to stop the asbestos fund bill, which they say is critically flawed. Peter Strayer of the United Steel Workers says that there is no automatic sunset provision that would allow asbestos claims to return to the legal system if the fund runs out of money.

Speaker 17: There's not enough money in this fund. It's going to go bankrupt, and overall it's just a way to build the companies out from their responsibility to the people that they've knowingly exposed.

Speaker 16: When Paul Siegelbaum was diagnosed with mesothelioma, a cancer only known to be caused from exposure to asbestos. He realized that his years working with General Electric Company as a power plant engineer may have caused his illness with his lawyer. Siegelbaum investigated and found that GE hid from their workers and clients the fact that they installed equipment that they knew contained dangerous asbestos ziego Bum says that under this new bill. The asbestos claims process would deter cases like his from being heard.

Speaker 18: The claims process will require people to prove occupational exposure up to a certain level of years of exposure. Equivalent level of years, and they're going to have to go back and find their employment documentation, find witnesses, find. Social Security records and there's no incentive for the companies to give them that documentation. The companies have absolutely nothing to gain by helping these people under this trust fund bill under the tort system. They do have something to gain. They have to live by what's by the rule.

Speaker 16: The bill, despite its bipartisan Co sponsorship, has drawn strong criticism from within both parties. However, Utah Republican Orrin Hatch is a big supporter of the bill.

Speaker 19: The litigation that these workplace injuries spawned now threatens to deprive the very workers who need compensation for their injuries of their due rewards. While crushing businesses large and small in every state. I find it surprising that there are those in this body who do not wish to address our nation's asbestos crisis.

Speaker 16: Celina Masuda Fsra N in Washington, DC.

Speaker 1: As Haitian voters head to the polls to elect a new government today, many questions involving Haitians both inside and outside of Haiti are pressing the political violence. Following the US, French and Canadian sponsored coup d'etat in February 2004. Has forced thousands of Haitians to flee their homes and many more have migrated to neighbouring countries in search of economic stability and a better life. FSR's Erin Lacoff has more from Port-au-Prince.

Speaker 20: More and more Haitian migrants are fleeing an unemployment rate of over 75% and turning to the Dominican Republic. An obvious choice because it shares a land border with Haiti after President Bush announced just prior to the coup that his country would not be accepting Haitian asylum seekers. Most political refugees who were bound for the USA. Were turned back by coast guards. Many other Caribbean countries see the upcoming Haitian elections as being positive and hope that they will address the issues of Haitian migrants. Caricom, which initially refused to recognize the 2004 coup and the Haitian interim government, has recently pledged support to the Haitian elections. By sending official election observers to the country Louis Harold Joseph, Haitian ambassador to the Bahamas, is hoping that the elections in Haiti will bring about a stability which will ease difficulties for Haitian migrants living illegally in the Bahamas. HaitIs suffering great difficulties in registering its own citizens, Haitians who migrate to the Dominican Republic. They have a hard time obtaining residency there without their own ID cards and the Dominican born children of Haitian migrants often remain without paper. One Haitian group in the Dominican Republic estimates that there are 400,000 Haitian children living there, and the majority of them are without papers. Machten, Dahl, Milas of the support group for refugees in the repatriated in Port-au-Prince.

Speaker 21: It must be said that people use other means cross the border, such as trade. Taking it's done without papers. Usually people have neither a passport nor a visa to go to the Dominican Republic, so they turn to traffickers to go when they show up in the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 16: That one.

Speaker 21: And they have kids there and want their kids to have birth certificates. That's where the problem starts.

Speaker 20: The Inter American Court of Human Rights has recently declared that denying birth certificates to Dominican born children of Haitian parents is illegal. Social and state discrimination against Haitians in the Dominican Republic is still. Rampant, William Chapatti, a human rights lawyer with the socio cultural movement of Haitian workers in Santo Domingo, explains.

Speaker 22: Not terribly Dominique, but it's not too.

Speaker 23: There are three main factors by which Haitians are exploited in the Dominican Republic, the first is illegality. If you are illegal, you have no means of claiming your rights. Secondly, Haitians are hard workers. They work very hard compared to the Dominicans.

Speaker 24: This.

Speaker 23: And the Dominicans exploit the Haitians because of their behavior. The Haitians are very nice, relaxed and docile.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 23: Furthermore, Haitians don't have a responsible stay at home working for them.

Speaker 20: On January 10th, 2625, Haitian migrants died as they tried to secretly cross the Dominican border hidden in a tree. Back some died from asphyxiation, others died as they were thrown out of the fast moving vehicle. An unidentified womand resident of a batay, a Haitian work camp outside Santo Domingo tells us how this tragedy touched her.

Speaker 25: That is a situation that makes us very sad that they did it because they had to. They left family behind. They have family back in Haiti, but they also have children here in Santo Domingo, but if they hadn't been sent there, they wouldn't have done what they did coming here hidden in that truck.

UNKNOWN: OK.

Speaker 3: You don't talk about missing.

Speaker 25: So what we want is to find a way for us to be able to stay here to be able to go out. Without fear.

Speaker 20: Rene Preval as the candidate expected to win today's elections. Preval, who was Haiti's president from 1996 to 2001, is campaigning on a platform of fighting government corruption, national disarmament and improving state infrastructure. This Aaron Lakoff, reporting for free speech radio. News from Port-au-Prince

Speaker 1: Students and workers unions demonstrated together in over 90 French towns today as the country's parliament debated a proposed new contract for young workers, which will mean that workers aged 25 and under can be fired for any reason during their first two years on the job on short notice and with a minor severance package. 10s of thousands joined the protests, although they weren't as well supported as last October's mobilization against the right wing government's policy on wages and public services. Tony Cross reports from the streets of Paris.

UNKNOWN: I don't want to fail.

Speaker 26: University and school students relay a non 2 plight threat as to what they'll do to Prime Minister Dominique Devilla if he presses on with his proposed first job contract. The sapeur. The Vilpas says that it will encourage employers to take on young workers. By removing all employee protections for the new jobs for two years. Bosses will also be excused Social Security contributions for three years if they take on youths who've been unemployed for more than six months. France has over 2,300,000 unemployed and nearly 1/4 of under 26 year olds are without jobs. They made their presence felt during last year's riots. An explosion of anger on low income housing projects which mostly housed families of immigrant origin. Silvie, a trade unionist in thealth service, says she's at the Paris protest for her two daughters, one of whom is 14 years old, the other 20.

Speaker 27: The 20 year old is a nursing assistant. I don't imagine that during those two years she'll be able to find a place of her own to live. That's already hard enough for young people, so if the job only lasts 2 years, her life is going to be even more insecure. Our kids tell us that bosses often tell them you don't have enough experience. I don't think that the CPE will help that it won't count as experience on their CVS.

Speaker 26: French Labour law does make it difficult to fire workers with full time contracts, but employers have found plenty of ways around that. 2 1/2 million French workers. That's 12 1/2% of the workforce hold the jobs which are officially temporary, leaving them drifting in and out of. Alan Toquen, who's a researcher of France's top social science faculty, points out that it protects a limited number of workers.

Speaker 28: In financial not enough jobs and the jobs are reserved to father to people with a family and neither young nor old. But people who are responsible for me. And up to a recent period of time. I would have had that very many people without saying it would say well among these people the young people, some of them come from outside. They should never have come because there's racist orientation and so nobody cares so much.

Speaker 26: Tohen argues that the new law won't change very much, either for job security or for job. Creation, he says that the Vilca, who hopes to be elected in next year's presidential election, just wants to be seen to be doing something the Prime Minister argues that the French labour market is over regulated. He claims that Britain and the US have lower unemployment because they have less legislation, although he doesn't mention America's battery of antidiscrimination laws. The argument that labour must be more flexible doesn't impress student union activist ferien.

Speaker 25: It won't reduce unemployment just because you can lay people off easily doesn't mean that you will take people on readily.

UNKNOWN: You shout.

Speaker 26: Comparison with all the Western European countries does improve the Vipal's case. Portugal and Spain have more job protection but lower youth unemployment. Italy has less job protection and higher youth on employment. It's unclear whether the Prime Minister has found the magic formula that will provide work for Francis untapped. Speech radio news. I'm Tony cross in Paris.

Speaker 1: As part of its effort to wean US residents off their addiction to oil, the Bush administration is proposing a new generation of nuclear power plants, even though most of the oil consumers use is in the form of gasoline in his state of the Union speech last week, President Bush did not mention increasing fuel economy. He did call for more clean, safe nuclear power. What he didn't mention was his plan to restart plutonium reprocessing as an integral part of the push for nuclear. Four but $250 million for the project is in his budget request released yesterday as Melinda to whose reports opponents say the project is fraught with the potential for environmental disasters and nuclear terrorism, and that costs will soar.

Speaker 29: In the 1960s, reprocessing plutonium was thought to be the way to get the most bang for the nuclear buck, but a facility in upstate New York closed in six years. After releasing massive contamination and proving economically disaster. There's an even bigger problem. According to Ed Lyman, staff scientists with the Union of Concerned Scientists.

Speaker 14: The major concern associated with reprocessing spent fuel, as opposed to directly disposing of it in a repository like the Young mountain repository that people may be familiar with. Is that the process extracts materials which could be used in a nuclear weapon?

Speaker 29: Not so says Energy Department spokesman Craig Stevens, who describes the new program called the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership or GENEP

Speaker 30: What's different about gene up is that it doesn't take to strip the plutonium out, it's. Actually held in there so it does. It makes it dramatically more difficult for anyone to use for all purposes.

Speaker 14: That is dead room.

Speaker 29: Lyman again.

Speaker 14: Technology at the Department of Energy is planning to demonstrate by providing $250 million in this budget is not proliferation resistant as they claim as a matter. Of fact, the product. That will. Be produced by this technology is not going to have any significant proliferation resistance compared to the conventional reprocessing that now goes on overseas and for that reason it is still going to be in extreme danger and increase the vulnerability of plutonium for theft by terrorists.

Speaker 29: Where plutonium reprocessing occurs, critics charge that radioactive waste is dumped directly into water bodies and at least one major accident has occurred in Russia. Department of Energy spokesman Craig Stevens insists there's no downside to the project.

Speaker 30: If we can lessen the competition for fossil fuels by expanding the use of nuclear power, which is clean, safe, affordable, we can spread more energy to more parts of the world and help more economy.

Speaker 29: The $250 million is a drop in the bucket of what will be needed to actually get these proposed reprocessing facilities up and running. Two different government analysis predict the final cost at between 100 billion and $200 billion, says Mary Olson of the Nuclear Information and Resource Service.

Speaker 31: One huge downside is for the taxpayers. The commercial nuclear industry will not reprocess. Says irradiated fuel. Because it is incredibly expensive and so the the upside for the corporate world is taking tax dollars from our treasury and diverting it to this purpose.

Speaker 29: The administration says increasing the percentage of energy that comes from nuclear power will reduce global warming. Since, unlike fossil fuels, it does not generate greenhouse gases in producing power. Olsen says if the administration were truly interested in reducing greenhouse gases, dollar for dollar energy efficiency is a much better deal.

Speaker 31: That $1.00 will deliver seven times. Greater reduction in CO2 emissions than the dollar put into nuclear.

Speaker 29: Olsen says the administration is misrepresenting many of the basic facts surrounding nuclear power and plutonium reprocessing. But she says there's still a chance to. Fight back.

Speaker 31: I think that the people of this country have a tremendous opportunity because it all depends on annual appropriations, and this a budget Buster.

Speaker 29: For FRN I'm Melinda tuhoe.

Speaker 1: The 14 acre South Central Farm in Los Angeles continues to teeter. In legal limbo. Farmers are still awaiting the outcome of a court hearing over a week ago on the ability of 350 means tested families to remain on the nations largest community garden. From KPFK. Kelly Barnes has more.

Speaker 32: The farmers and their supporters held a rally last Friday afternoon in the affluent LA suburb of Brentwood at the offices of Ralph Horowitz, developer and contested owner of the plot in 1986. The city of LA bought the entire plot, then owned by an investment group, one of whom was Horowitz. They paid $4.7 million under eminent domain to build a trash incinerator. After environmental justice forces shut that idea down. The land was later transferred between city departments for a price of 13.3 million. In 2003, Horowitz sued the city of Los Angeles, saying the original eminent domain purpose was moot and he demanded to buy the land back. The city did sell back the property, plus the remaining 25% of the original parcel for only $5.1 million. That's $8.2 million cheaper than the prior interagency price. Farm supporters refer to that difference as an unfair corporate subsidy. That 2003 sale has many critics. Among them is Rosa Romero of the Social justice group, axis of justice. Attending the rally, she points to the legal argument against developer Ralph Horowitz.

Speaker 33: City of LA sold it to him, even though Judge Chris Boe three times said that he had no legal right to the land, was a back. Your deal, because this an illegal sale of land, it's completely it has. It has no legal ground, and so we're here saying that they can't use our tax dollars to subsidize that.

Speaker 32: Mike Feinstein is former mayor of Santa Monicand Co. Coordinator of the Green Party in LA County, the LA County Greens just announced their official support for the South Central farmers.

Speaker 24: It's important for this movement, which is more on the east side to also be in other parts of the city, because I think it's going to need a citywide political force to make this happen, along with the ability for people to go down and stay on the land refuse to be moved. If that terrible moment comes.

Speaker 32: Fernando Flores is Co. Chair of the Support Coalition for the South Central Farmers.

Speaker 22: It's really been a test of patience for us. Still recruiting, we're still doing outreach. We're still building our pressure of people could continue to write letters to the mayor, make the phone calls, participate in our support coalition, which that meeting is held every Sunday at 3:00 o'clock at the farm. We're looking to end this in the most peaceful manner.

Speaker 32: For fsra in Los Angeles, I'm Kelly Barnes with the people Without Borders collective.

Speaker 1: Listening to free speech radio news. I'm Audra bogado.

01-31-2006

Source

Speaker 1: This free speech Radio news for Tuesday, January 31st, 2006. I'm Nell Abram sitting in for Ada Bugato, where Ron says it's referral to the UN Security Council would mean the end of diplomacy. The World Social Forum wrapped up in Caracas this past weekend. We'll bring you some of the. Highlights and we remember civil rights icon Coretta Scott King, and playwright Wendy Wasserstein. But first these news headlines.

Speaker 2: I'm Shannon Young with the Free Speech radio news headlines. Opening arguments began today in the Enron trial, with both sides staying on message. Lisa Cohen reports from Houston.

Speaker 3: Federal prosecutors told jurors today the Enron trial is a case about lies and. Choices not about accounting. Defense lawyers former Enron executive Jeff Skilling argued the case is very much about accounting. Attorney Daniel Petrocelli said when Skilling left the company four months before its bankruptcy. Enron was in fine financial health, Petrocelli said. Skilling will take the stand in his defense halfway through opening arguments. Jurors were given note. And some seemed to take extensive notes outside the federal courthouse in downtown Houston. What's known as the Enron trial is stirring up discussion in a city where thousands of people lost their jobs when the company collapsed and the Court of public opinion is also in session from KPFT in Houston. I'm Lisa Cohen. For free speech radio.

Speaker 2: The Environmental Protection Agency has agreed to let some factory farms escape fines for environmental pollution and exchange for data on the extent of their contamination. Factory farms are industrial scale feeding operations designed to maximize overall dairy or meat output. These operations produce massive amounts of. Animal excrement, which can result in serious water and air contamination under the terms of the 1st of 20 compliance agreement signed yesterday, the EPA will settle liability for certain past violations at factory. And will be able to develop new compliance standards, guidelines and enforcement policies. Meanwhile, the Iowa State legislature is considering a bill that could penalize a person for filing repeated complaints against factory farm operations. Under the proposed law, anyone who files three or more complaints within two years time could be labeled a quote chronic complainant if investigations do not find evidence of legal violations so-called. Chronic complainants could be forced to pay damages and investigation costs to the owner of the feeding operation and to the government. And other news. Israeli forces invaded a village near the West Bank city of Jeanine today, killing two people in the first armed clash. Since the Palestinian elections, Maynard Jabrin reports from the West Bank.

Speaker 4: Army special units. Backed by armored vehicles and Apachelicopters, invaded the village of Arraba this afternoon surrounding a local. House where members of the Islamic Jihad movement were thought to be hiding 2 Palestinians inside of the house and an IRA. 3 soldier were killed in the subsequent shootout. 15 civilian bystanders and at least two soldiers were injured. Ambulance driver. Yet Mortlock describes what he witnessed today.

Speaker 5: We have received information that least one Israeli soldier has been killed and at least two or three were injured. In addition, 2 Palestinians have been killed. We are unable to enter the area because the army has. Closed it, there are at least 15 Palestinians injured by live ammunition and we are unable to locate or reach them.

Speaker 4: Nadal Abusada, senior leader of Alcotts brigades, the armed doing of Islamic Jihad was reportedly killed. This military operation is part of a larger sweep of arrests of 22 residents through the West Bank. Cities who are said to be activists of Hamas Fatah Islamic Jihad and Popular Front for the liberation of Palestine for Afsar and this monarchy been reporting from Palo?

Speaker 2: In Britain, a report published today reveals how failed asylum seekers with children are going underground to avoid deportation. This just as a High Court challenge on the issue of access to public services for asylum seekers has failed from London. Naomi Feller has more.

Speaker 6: Last year the government introduced regulations that cut all state support from families whose attempts to seek asylum in Britain are rejected for families, then risk threats to take their children into care because they've become destitute. It was intended to persuade families to return to their. But today's report from organisations, the Refugee Council and Refugee action says in a pilot scheme, they were monitoring more than 1/4 of such families went underground when their support was cut. That means they lose all contact with services, leaving them and their children highly vulnerable. The first High Court challenge to the rules allowing the cutting of all state support, has just failed. A Congolese woman had argued that cutting off support breached the Children Act and the Human Rights Act, but the judge disagreed. Reed 100,000 or more destitute people who've gone underground in Britain are being assisted by the Red Cross and Medicines on Frontier normally associated with conflict zones and international crises. This Naomi Fowler in London for free speech. Radio news.

Speaker 2: Authorities in drought stricken. Kenya today rejected an offer of emergency food rations from a New Zealand dog food manufacturer. The founder of Mighty Mix dog food told Kenya's Daily Nation newspaper that she had originally planned to send biscuits, but decided to send 42 tons of a powdered mix. After learning of the magnitude of the country's food crisis, a spokesperson for Kenya's government told the Ajans France press quote. Telling us that you are giving us food for dogs and our culture is an insult of the highest order. Maybe she was trying to help, but I hope this offer is a result of naivete. The manufacturer has defended her offer by saying that the mixture is not dog food, but a modified recipe fit for human consumption. I'm Shannon Young for free speech. Radio news.

Speaker 1: Ben Bernanke was just confirmed as the Federal Reserve Chairman to replace Alan Greenspan. Greenspan served for nearly twenty years, and Samuel Alito is the newest member of the US Supreme Court.

Speaker 6: It's a major.

Speaker 1: Win for President Bush as he prepares to give the annual state of the Union address this evening, Leon. Caldwell has more from Capitol Hill.

Speaker 7: On this vote. The ayes are 58, the nays are 42. The President's nomination of Samuel, Alito Junior of New Jersey, to be an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, is confirmed.

Speaker 8: 4 senators crossed party lines. The Democrats voting to confirm Alito were Senators Robert Byrd of West Virginia, Kent Conrad of North Dakotand Ben Nelson of Florida, this sole Republican to vote with the majority of Democrats was Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, independent James Jeffords of Vermont opposed Alito. But anticipation remained high until the end, with both the lead of support and opposition groups waiting outside the Senate chamber to congratulate their senators for either a fight well fought or a win well won. Deborah Nassau's, president of the National Partnership for Women and Families, the overall.

Speaker 9: Vote is a very sad day. For the American public, this going to be a terrible vote for women's rights and civil rights, and our right to privacy. But I really applaud the courage of the Senators who stand up and voted on principle.

UNKNOWN: I think it's marvelous the American people have won.

Speaker 10: Because the majority do want to judge.

Speaker 8: That was Rita Warren. She says she is a lobbyist for God following the vote, Republican senators gathered to say they stopped liberal groups from sabotaging the confirmation process. Republican Senator John Warner from Virginia.

Speaker 12: My hope is that as some have forecast that perhaps the filibuster of judicial nominees is dead, this a recent innovation of when President Bush became President. It's something that had never happened before and should never happen. And that all nominees of the President are entitled to an up or down vote.

Speaker 8: But Republicans LED a vote stalling tactic that can be interpreted as a filibuster of Supreme Court nominee Abe Fortas in 1968. They defend that move, saying a majority of senators of both parties opposed his confirmation. Massachusetts Senators John Kerry and Ted Kennedy launched a push for debate, stalling filibuster late last week. They hoped to delay the confirmation vote. At least until after the state of the Union address, President Bush's state of the Union is tonight, where he is expected tout Alito's confirmation as a major win. He is also expected touch on a range of both foreign and domestic issues. Themes will include defense of the national spying program in the name of safety and security and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As for domestic issues, the President will speak about extending the tax cuts, health care reform, and new energy policies. The annual address acts as a yearly agenda for the party in charge of the White House, but newly elected Governor of Virginia Tim Kaine will give the democratic response shortly after the president. And the Congressional Progressive Caucus. A group of members of the House of Representatives laid out their progressive agenda for the year. Democratic Congressperson Barbara Lee from California said they will focus on poverty.

Speaker 13: He is the president. We asked him to submit to Congress his plan for eradicating poverty. The second cause on Congress for accountability and would require the Congressional Budget Office to report on the poverty impact of legislation. All legislation pending before. Congress and the third one calls for establishing priorities that would roll back tax cuts for the wealthiest and pay for poverty alleviation strategies.

Speaker 8: The state of the Union address will begin at 9:00 PM Eastern tonight for free Speech Radio News. I'm Leon Caldwell.

Speaker 1: Early in the morning London time Chinese and Russian representatives joined the United States, Britain and France in calling on the United Nations nuclear watchdog to report Iran to the Security Council. There was rapid response. Iranian vice president Agazade said there is no legal justification for such a move and that it would be the end of diplomacy. Celina Masuda reports from Washington, DC.

Speaker 10: Russiand China. Iran's allies agreed to a formal referral to the Security Council only if it would be scheduled to take place. After the International Atomic Energy Agency's regular meeting on March the 6th. This would give Iran one month to comply with IAEA's concerns and give Russian opportunity to work with Iran during their February. The eighth meeting, however, on Tuesday Iran responded to the five Big Powers, Germany and the European Union with their own threat, saying that if they are referred to the Security Council, they will no longer. Cooperate with the UN and plan to stop allowing surprise UN inspections of its nuclear site. Some Washington analysts like Professor Raymond Tantor of the Iran Policy Committee, think the United States should practice what he calls coercive diplomacy in dealing with Iran, including supporting Iran's main opposition groups.

Speaker 14: Empowering the Iranian people, not people in general, but through the Pro democracy opposition groups. But the only way you can do that is to take the main opposition groups off of the foreign terrorist organizations list. And I see a growing sentiment within the Bush administration for doing that. Very thing.

Speaker 10: The Iran Policy Committee, a group that advocates for regime change in Iran, accuses Iran of constructing a top secret tunnel as part of its nuclear weapons program. Alireza Jafarzadeh is part of the committee.

Speaker 15: This yet another indication that Iran is actually increasingly moving its nuclear weapons program underground, making it even more secretive while they are promising transparency in the in their talks and negotiations. Clearly there's a gap between the Iran regime's deeds and their words.

Speaker 10: Iran continues to say that their nuclear program is being used for energy purposes critics. Of the referral. Say that it is discriminatory to expect Iran to comply with the 1970 nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty when countries like Britain, Russiand the United States still maintain nuclear weapons in his state of the Union address Tuesday night. President Bush is expected to mention US concerns over Iran. Celina Masuda FSRU N in Washington, DC.

Speaker 1: Al Jazeera today showed part of a videotape of American hostage. Jill Carroll, a freelance reporter on assignment for the Christian Science Monitor who was kidnapped in Baghdad earlier this month. Jazeera reported that Carroll made a plea for the release of female prisoners in US and Iraqi custody. Violence continued in the country with the US military calling in an air strike against what it says was a guerrilla. Position in a soccer stadium following clashes with fighters in the western city of Ramadi. There was also an attack on Iraqi police in Nazariya in the South and a British soldier was killed by a roadside bomb in Missan Province, also in the South. Against this backdrop, negotiations over who will be Iraq's next Prime Minister continue. Clerk Mutatal Sadr, whose militia fought foreign troops last summer before a ceasefire was declared. Said Monday that he will not support any candidate that does not call for an American withdrawal. Salam, Talib and David Enders filed this report.

Speaker 16: With 29 members of Parliament loyal to him, so there has a powerful swing vote within the United Iraqi Alliance. The country's largest political bloc, which is made-up of southern followers and other conservative Shiite political parties, southern had in the past kept his distance from politics, but recently has been pursuing a largely political track and calling for a US withdrawal. There were some southern loyalists in the last parliament, and they spearheaded the signing of an agreement across party lines that the matter of troop withdrawal be addressed by any Iraqi government. That is the stance the group is maintaining. Since said the Fathel Shadda, a southern spokesman in Baghdad.

Speaker 17: There woman Abra silk elvino wood.

Speaker 18: All the political powers agreed to support a government that will call for the Americans to leave, or at least schedule the military withdrawal from Iraq. And we agree that rebuilding Iraq will be the main thing to support after that. And the Iraqis will know how to restore security to Iraq.

Speaker 16: So there's militia has also clashed with that of the Supreme Council for the Islamic revolution in Iraq. Arrival party within the UI. A soldier is also the only Shiite leader who has made repeated overtures to members of the disenfranchised, Sunni community, Al Shahada.

UNKNOWN: Huggy morality.

Speaker 18: Welcome anyone that has the experience to lead Iraq to be in the government without any discrimination.

Speaker 17: Omar al qadim

Speaker 16: It is unclear when the UIAA will take a final vote on the decision, but the candidates that have been mentioned so far are current Prime Minister Ibrahim Al Jafari of the Dawa Party. Although Abdul Mahdi of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and Nadim Jabiri Secretary General of the Fadilah Party, most of whose support is in the southern city of Basra. Hussein Shahristani, a current speaker in the parliament and an independent member within the UIA, is also a possibility. Both Abdul Mahdi and Shahristani have worked closely in the past with Western intelligence agencies. I'm David Enders with Salam Talib reporting for FSR N.

Speaker 1: The second phase of the 6th annual World Social Forum finished up this weekend in Caracas, Venezuela. The World Social Forum began in 2001 in Porto Alegre, Brazil. As an alternative response to the World Economic Forum held in Davos. England in 2005. The organizing committee decided to divide the form into three polycentric sessions. 1 concluded in Bamako, Mali earlier this week. Another is scheduled for March in Karachi, Pakistan. The third location, Caracas, Venezuela, was also the site of the first Americas Social Forum in 2000 and. More free speech radio news correspondent Norm Stockwell brings us this portrait of the.

UNKNOWN: I don't know if she.

Speaker 19: The differences between Davos and Caracas are visible in many ways. Unlike the austere, snow covered setting of Davos, where the world's business elite huddle to plan the division of the world's resources. Here in Caracas, thousands of activists with colorful clothes and banners gather in the warm sunlight to discuss ways of building another world, one in which justice and equality govern the distribution of resources and wealth. With nearly 70,000 people officially registered to take part in the forums over 2000 events this past week, Caracas was a very busy hub of activity participants from over 50 countries included several US delegations, while somewhat chaotic as participants tried to navigate the vast array of activities. The forum, All in all, was seen very fruitful. By those who attended. Each year a debate ensues on whether the form should take stands and make declarations, but many feel this would make the event something other than what its name implies. A forum for discussion. The real work of the world's social forum actually begins after participants return home to share what they've learned with others. Jacobo Torres de Leon. International coordinator for the Venezuelan Bolivarian Workers Union and member of the organizing committee for this year. 's forum said that one of the reasons Venezuela wanted to host this year's forum was to showcase the accomplishments and future plans of what they are calling the Bolivarian Revolution.

Speaker 20: Any resulting form of solidarity with the Bolivarian revolution that we have won is important to us. That the people of the world see clearly what is happening in our country without intermediary and without hateful chains such as seeing and twisting reality with this accomplishment, we are opening our door to the world in 2006 in this great World Social forum, and we are simply saying, listen to us. And to all who have seen what is going on. In Venezuela. It is absolutely not about whether another world is possible but that another world is necessary. And together we can achieve it.

Speaker 19: The week of activities kicked off last Tuesday with a huge March and rally in downtown Caracas. The crowd was addressed from the stage by several US anti war activists, including women from Code Pink, Lucius Walker of Pastors for Peace and Cindy Sheehan, mother of Casey Sheehan, who was killed in Iraq. Cindy Sheehan appeared at several events during the week and shared the stage with Venezuelan. President Hugo Chavez, who addressed forum participants on Wednesday evening in a huge sports arena.

Speaker 5: Incluso que dentro de Los Estados unidos.

Speaker 21: I also see that inside the US a new movement has begun each day. It becomes more conscious, more unified.

Speaker 5: You need.

UNKNOWN: Bueno abraca recordar Hindi.

Speaker 21: We have to remember that Cindy began alone in Texas outside the ranch of Mr Danger. She set up her ranch. The ranch of hope of morality.

UNKNOWN: Rancho de la Moral de la paranza. Paranza hope.

Speaker 21: How do you say Esperanza in English? Mrs hope.

Speaker 19: Dear Benjamin, co-founder of the US Peace Group Code Pink and the San Francisco based international human rights organization, Global Exchange, who brought a group of over 200 people to this year's forum, seized the lessons of Venezueland the forum as a crucial inspiration to social movements in the United States.

Speaker 11: People are so depressed in the United States and there's such a feeling of lack of empower. And it's just amazing to come down here because you get the surge of energy and you feel that this slogan of another world is possible is not just the slogan, it's a real thing.

Speaker 19: The World Social Forum concluded Sunday evening at the same moment the Caracas Lions baseball team was winning their league championship to head on to the Caribbean Series. The final polycentric forum is scheduled to take place in Karachi, Pakistan from March 24th through the 29th. Reporting from Caracas for free speech Radio News this Norman Stockwell.

Speaker 1: A woman is raped every 30 minutes india, a country of more than 1.1 billion people. Conviction rates are nearly nil in a feudal, patriarchal, underdeveloped society where factors like family, pressure, illiteracy, the might of the police and the unreasonably long process and application of law deny justice to women. In recent years, the abduction, rape and murder case of 18 year old Charanjit Kaur has become a symbol for thousands of villagers of the western Indian state of Punjab who turn out in huge numbers in protest. Now the leaders who fought against the rapists have been sentenced to life in prison in other allegedly false cases, scores of irate villagers are blocking roads, rails and making pledges of protest against the feudal landlords, police and judiciary. Our reporter, Vinod Kate, Joe's, spent time with the protesting villagers. And files this report from Bunju B.

Speaker 17: A movement has been building up around the case of Kiranjit Kaur Kiranjit, an 18 year old high school student was abducted, raped and murdered by two feudal landlords 8 years ago. The incident occurred when Kiranjit was coming back home after the country's 50th Independence Day. Liberations in school after the rape. She was buried in the sugar cane farm. Of the feudal. Lot a massive uprising by villagers brought the culprits to the court of Law. But now the incident has taken another turn. Darshan Singh is the father of Kiranjit Kaur.

UNKNOWN: Right?

Speaker 22: The value calling.

Speaker 23: My daughter was raped and killed by landlords 8 years ago. Thousands of people came forward to protest and the leaders who mobilized people against the powerful landlords are in trouble now. They're booked under false cases and locked in prison for life by the politically connected landlord family. This time people are agitating to release our leaders and punish the landlords.

Speaker 17: The villages in this part of the country are still ruled by feudal landlords. They keep a private army as well. Police and administration dare not touch them. The landlords who murdered Kinchit has 27 criminal cases against them from land grabbing to rape and murder. Diljit army is a documentary filmmaker. In the campaign or in the agitation.

Speaker 24: Actually, the family which committed this crime they were involved in such crimes of land, graving, murders, rapes and other things, and they have their terror in. The region and they were politically well collected. They were. With almost all the mainstream political parties, and they had their say in the administration and the police.

Speaker 17: But an alliance of teachers, farmers and workers decided to fight the kiranjit's rapists. Premkumar, a teacher in his school Narayan Tab and employing the electricity department and Manjit Singh, a Farmers Union leader, organised thousands of villagers against patriarchy and feudalism. But now these three leaders are booked under a murder case and lodged in jail on life in prison. Cement the thousands of villagers who still continue their protest believes the agitation leaders are booked on false charges by the powerful feudal landlords to break the movement. But the agitation is gaining more momentum. Villages are coming in big numbers, blocking roads, rails and taking pledge in protests against the feudal landlords and their private army. Recent in the British was a tractor rally organized by the farmers.

Speaker 20: Feudal Lords and police cannot succeed. We want our leaders out. We will fight and we will win.

Speaker 17: That was a leader speaking at the Rally Lieutenant Kennel Jagdish Singh Brar was an Indian Army officer. He is also taking part in the agitation.

UNKNOWN: We take the north.

Speaker 22: When were in the army, were told that the security of your nation was the prime concern. But if women in your country are not safe, how safe can the country be? 50% of the population lives under exploitation. Cases of abduction, rape and murder are increasing day by day.

Speaker 17: If you remember. The girls are asking where the rule of law is and would it be ever safe for them from the villages of western Indian state of Punjab india? This Vinod Kejor for free speech. Radio news.

Speaker 1: Today we note the passing of two American women who devoted their lives to change award-winning. Playwright and arts activist Wendy Wasserstein died yesterday following a battle with lymphoma. She was 55 wasserstein's best known plays written from a feminist perspective, with a wry sense of humor include theidi Chronicles, the sisters Rosensweig And an American. And early this morning, civil rights leader Coretta Scott King died at the age of 78. She suffered a major stroke and heart attack in August and had been in decline ever since. The widow of Doctor Martin Luther King Junior was a civil rights activist long before her marriage after her husband was killed, Missus King emerged. And remained at the forefront of the fight for equality for all Americans. A staunch pacifist, she influenced Dr King's controversial decision in 1967 to speak out against the Vietnam War. The following is an excerpt of Missus King's remarks at the People's March on Washington in 1971.

Speaker 25: Fear and hate pervades our society. This war is clearly an enemy of poor and black people. The war is an enemy to the American people. The war is an enemy of the national welfare, an enemy of a national medical plan that rids this country of infant mortality. Quality progressive education dies at the expense of the invasion of Laos and Cambodia. Subsidies for Lockheed Airfryer, but Trums for the empty stomachs of the hundreds of thousands of starving children. For several months now. The American people have collected signatures. To the joint peace treaty between people of the United States. And the people of Vietnam. 10s of millions of Americans opposed the war in Vietnam. Why can't we, the people of the United States and the people of Southeast Asia, make the peace? The 44 1000 young men who have died. There were our sons and brothers. The untold number that have been murdered. And napalm are. Our sons and brothers, so my quest is that the people make the peace. Let us declare that the war is over. And let us declare that the war on hunger and poverty and repression are in force.

Speaker 1: After her husband's murder, Mrs. King fought for more than a decade to establish a federal holiday. On his birthday. She also raised millions of dollars to establish the Martin Luther King Junior Center for Nonviolent Change, an Atlanta complex that houses her husband's tomb archives and exhibits. She served as its president for two decades. Thanks to the Pacifica Radio archives for providing the voice of the late Coretta Scott King. You've been listening to free speech, radio news, sitting in for auto bogado on Nell Abram at WMNF Community Radio in Tampa.

01-08-2006

Source

Speaker 2: Views expressed on this program are not necessarily the views of kwva radio or the associated students of the University of Oregon. Anarchy Radio is an editorial collage providing analysis and opinions of John Zerzand the community at large.

Speaker 1: When I got mine there when I got mine. I don't want to watch these things. I don't even want to be with me. I don't want to do anything I don't want to do, anything, anything, anything. Well, I don't mind live because I don't mind live well I don't mind. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. I don't want to watch the. Game I don't even. Want to do? This thing I don't want. To do. Anything I don't want to do, anything, anything, anything. But it's on Monday. Well, I just understand what do you got? I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. I know, I know why now?

Speaker 2: Anarchy Radio for January 8th. Also known as mindless contentment. The first thing's gotta say is the mighty show is moving to Tuesdays at 9:00 o'clock, not this Tuesday the 10th, but starting in 10 days. On 17th January, 17th will be the first program of any radio at an earlier hour. Every Tuesday from 9 to 10.

Speaker 3: So not next Sunday, not next Sunday.

Speaker 2: Right next. Not. So yeah, we're going through some changes. DJ Abuka was here last week to help out, and while you were while Carl was in the Midwest fiddling around.

Speaker 3: Yep, Yep. Yep I was. I was out in Michigan, Michigan. Yeah that bastion of enlightened thought.

Speaker 2: Oh, we can have your resolutions. Got any resolutions?

Speaker 3: Not to go back to Michigan.

Speaker 2: Oh, how about predictions? When Matt Mosier wasking about predictions and do you have any predictions for odd 6?

Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think that way, usually.

Speaker 4:-hyeah.

Speaker 2: Well, that's a slippery answer. Yeah, I don't think that. Way, OK, well another thing regarding the show and don't hold your breath here because the problem will work, but we're trying again for MP3 recordings and. The object would be to put them up on the website. Probably the green Anarchy website, where there was where there were a few until sort of late summer. I guess it was and then we ran into all kinds of crazy problems, but we might be going for that again, it's looking good and maybe. A timely announcement right here down in Sam bonds as we speak. California, California Cascadia Forest defenders are having a benefit. And not to urge you to go there or and spend your money or anything, but I bet that's just going strong right now, if anybody. If you're getting restless and don't want to sit around, listen to the radio and go over to bones and the Whittaker and they got a bunch of bands. And that’s a benefit for CFD, by the way, on the 17th the inaugural Tuesday evening time slot. Two people from CFD are going to be handling it, and Carl because I'll be in California so. So that's the name of that tune. Well, let's see. We got a lot of stuff. Oh well, this relates to another. This relates to another announcement. Oops, the microphone just fell over on me and that in turn of course connects to other things on Tuesday night. This Tuesday night the 10th. At I think this over at one of the. Hilton Hotel rooms. Yeah the downtown Hilton. At let's see 7:00 o'clock, Tuesday, January 10th. Richard heinberg. He is going to talk about peak oil. There was a one page interview in the in the local weekly, the Eugene Weekly. And I've had some. I've had some contact with Richard Heinberg in the past ten years. He's written some very interesting stuff about civilization. That was a big focus of his and some really worthwhile studies, and even his monthly newsletter was. That's not for us. OK, was largely focusing on that and I thought. That that's an important thing to. To get down to well, if you saw, or if you've maybe you've heard him on the radio lately, he's he's been. It's been more inevitable. And that brings up whoops, the phone gives me. Well, it brings up the question. Of what happens to people when they begin to be noted? In this case, and I think Richard Heinz Brinberg's a nice guy, but. Something is missing altogether. He's completely forgot about the civilization thing thing, evidently in favor of peak oil. Which,, I'd have to say is a well known refuge for liberals that the end. Of the oil. Thing is, going to just take care of everything else. Somehow it's just the big, bad ugly stuff is going to collapse and go away. And then we'll have a nice. Cool sustainable world or something like that with wonderful relationships? Evidently, and all the rest of it, but. You know reading this? Reading this interview for the weekly. Apropos of his appearance Tuesday night, he says he's asked, do you think the Bush administration understands the concept of peak oil? Absolutely, and that's a good question. Is this just like? Is this a sneak attack? Is this your surprise weapon that all the people that are? We'll just we'll see. The whole system tripped up the whole global thing. The whole machine will, just, come to its knees because this no and that's I think that's a good answer. That course the system knows all about it and all these ruling class figures have been working on it for years and years and anyway getting down to. This context. And putting aside for the moment how valid that may be, that the at the end of the nearing end, the drying up of oil. Will is going to happen and then further what is it going to mean? Well he says how do you respond to people who don't take peak oil seriously? And Richard Heinberg says, I think we need to focus primarily on policymakers. And I try to get these folks who are at home watching television, eating pizzand drinking beer. To sit up and start talking about peak oil, we need to get the city councils. People to state level prime ministers and presidents. In other words, Gee, he was. He was his critic of civilization. Perhaps is fundamentals you can get, and now he seems to be selling his services to be a consul. And for a soft landing for the system he wants to get, have the ear of all these figures and I think I already mentioned he's going to be introduced by the local mayor here, so that’s really sad. You know what? I don't know what accounts for that, but It’s a little bit like. Collapse the big blockbuster bestseller by Jared Diamond. Why civilizations fall and what we must learn? From them, and I was reading your review and I wish. I had brought it. But a woman in Austriat the university in Austria was reviewing collapse for an archaeology journal as a matter. Of fact, and she said, will it? And this the. Total of thumbnail read on this. I am not going to quote and go on and on with it but. She says it's pretty sound it. It talks about a lot of stuff, a lot of background in terms of civilizations and. The crumbling of various civilizations. And then she says. But the last third of it is positively silly. It has no connection with the first third. It's just it has no. Oh everything maybe will be fine. We just have to, look on the bright side and blah blah blah. Just just some sort of vapid hot air. thing with no, and I don't know. I guess that's the way you become a New York Times bestseller. You don't want to alarm people too much, don't. So, so it just goes away the whole the whole content of it, the whole. Backdrop and the whole learning that he has on the subject is just it just melts into air. It just. And I actually heard part of a radio speech by Diamond. He said the same thing. Well, if people can start talking, I think the Internet is wonderful and maybe maybe things will turn out fine. What you can? Say sure, I as I do I. I believe if there's a lot of dialogue that's absolutely essential. There's got to be public. Dialogue confronting this public discourse. Taking up these things. What's going on? What are we going to do, and what is the reality here? What's the nature of this and so on, but he didn't, but there was no content to his, just is just endless e-mail chatter or something and give us a hint what should we? Looking at which, where where should we be going with our? Active engagement with. If you're going to talk about dialogue that have some content or is it just doesn't meanything? Anybody can talk about anything, whatever, and it might or might not be helpful in terms of the crisis, so I. Just don't know. It's I see some very good signs, but I also see some notable washouts going on. And another one well. Chomsky is a is super. In so many ways, he's there's nothing very radical there. It's not. It's not a new phenomenon with him, but I noticed he had a brief interview in Newsweek. And of course, he's he's always complaining about how the mass media doesn't pay attention to him enough. And so it's. I think it's called the last word, it's it is a brief type of deal, so this what he gets to say. Here's here's your chance to really crack in with something if you're if you're being shut out, it's because you're way too radical, right? Yeah, maybe. So it's basically two things that I know. It’s. It's all about Iraq and. And what he has to say about Iraq, it actually is said also by right wingers. There are conservatives who feel like who have come to the view that the imperial adventure in Iraq, the invasion and occupation of Iraq is a mistake. And it should be. It should be cancelled. It should be withdrawn. That in itself there's nothing radical about that. I mean not that it's not a good idea. Of course, that people come to that conclusion and speak out. I'm not saying that, but there’s nothing radical about it. He's just pointing out what so many people. Of any political stripe or philosophical point of view already know. a wasted thing, and here is the. This coated a little bit I guess. For the humor his final little wind up thing at the very. And this Chomsky, the Bush administration succeeded in making the US one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. The talent of these guys is unbelievable. They have even succeeded in alienating Canada. I mean, it takes a genius literally. Well, again, that could be that could be totally a ruling. Class person is bemoaning this, I mean. What do you? Care if is that your perspective that you're so worried about the reputation the standing of this particular nation state. I mean, once again the guy is the farthest thing from anarchist. It's unbelievable and he gets to. Not, and he just cops out or well, I wouldn't even say cop out because that’s the limit of his stuff. Really, when you boil it down, it doesn't go. It doesn't go much further so. I think he should give up the whining about getting a chance to everybody else knows nothing except him and they and they won't let him talk to in the corporate media. Well, this what you get when he does. Bit of a joke. Well got a. Lot of news got a lot of stuff. 3460645. If you want to call in on the last Sunday. Rendition of Anarchy Radio. Or mindless contentment? Go ahead and do so also kwvaradio.org. Now see, Oh well, before I get into some of these, here's it's I was. I was hoping a friend move today is helping a. Friend, move up to Portland. You know it. It felt good. I was able to. I can lift stuff. I can drive a truck and wanted to give her a hand it was satisfying, . And but it also was. Ah Gee, I'm stiff and so we're gonna get tired. How do people do this every day that in particular? But all of the hard labor that. Of course, so many people have to do all the time for this for this technological. System this techno culture this industrial society. Here and globally to exist even for a few hours and. You know one of the perennial questions, of course, is, well, how do you get people to do that? And if you have a radical perspective and you want to continue to have if you want to preserve the technological stuff. The so-called conveniences and everything. Well then you got it. Then you have the problem of how do you get people to do all that grunt work and be exhausted at the end of the day and so. One and, and that's a good one. I mean, I keep coming back to that because, you just don't have it unless you get people to do it. And some people will say. And I don't know how they don't push this a lot and I don't know if their hearts really are, but they'll say well if people feel that it's for the. Good of the. The Society, then they'll do it, and. Yeah, I don't. Know for example, every Marxist system, every Marxist state that's tried it. All of the propagandand the appeals and the level having gone very far, and they resort to coercion. I think that's pretty true across the board. And of course people are coerced in the in the. In the world now by, of course, economic means by the pressures of wage labor you don't. You don't work. Basically, you go don't get no money and then you're in bad shape so. So you got this question and some people talk about it in terms of social relations. Of course, the more Marxist oriented, that's the if you've got the proper social relations in society then everything is fine and everybody will work. And then everything I guess. But I just feel like thinking about today. Personal relations, I think, is what it's about. That's why I was cheerfully doing that today, and as they said, it felt good, and that's why people did did work. Not certainly not industrial slavery like today, but would make some effort in terms of personal relationships in band society for the first couple of million. Is it? Yes it wasn't a question of. You know, devising some political set up for mass society. It was, it was real connections among. Or on a. Small scale face to face basis and that’s where you. You find out what you have and what the bonds are and what people want to do and so on. You in that society you got to have cohesion, I think that's. It's just one of those things. Well, I'm going to get into some of the news, and yeah, probably be interrupted. Take a break. Might be calls, but. We there’s been a lot of stuff, and some of it's. Some of it's pretty interesting it taking it chronologically from. From last week. Some 200 workers from the mural glass factory. Set fires South of Tehran in Iran. I hope this wasn't already covered last week. I can't actually remember, but. Wage dispute. They hadn't been paid. They went. They went wild, burned down a factory. Alf this this interesting Wednesday the 4th. From this past week, the Alf, the Animal Liberation Front, took responsibility for reintroducing wild boars to England. After a 300 year absence. LF folks cut the fencing around the board pens at a wild boar farm, freeing 100 animals. 41 were captured, but they couldn't find the rest of them, so there might be wild boars again. And on Friday this past Friday in New Orleans, a coalition of community members and anarchist relief volunteers. With the common ground collective stop, demolition crews from from tearing down her getting damaged homes in the impoverished lower 9th Ward. Good. Yeah, they stopped the bulldozing. They showed up and got in the way of that. Well, here's this. Is funny for the for the small flap or maybe not utterly small. Depends on the context. But in Istanbul's middle of the week this was announced on Thursday. A group of anarchists destroyed an ATM machine. They spray painted the walls. No compromise, anarchy and insurrection against civilization. And stated that they'll be doing more attacks against civilization. Well, fine. I mean, this just the thing that. It happens in many places and. Great stuff and but it's funny the reaction. There were all these. People saying oh boy, big deal, ? Oh, it's. Who as if somebody was saying this such an enormous feat? Or such a colossal turning point, and nobody said that, but there were. There were a lot of leftist exercise and then the and we're posting all kinds of stuff about how. How this nothing and these people are idiots and all that stuff. And this gives me the feeling that the anti civilization thing theory and practice primitivism whatever you want to call it. Green anarchy is certainly spreading and. And these leftover leftists know that, in fact, my prediction is there's going to be a breakout. This going to be a breakout year for that. They're they're just. There are a lot of cool signs and I want to talk about a new book for one thing and. Along those lines, but I just thought it was giving it away that people people got so worked up and so hostile about. You know if it was some. Revolutionary group for the building of the struggle or something they wouldn't. They wouldn't bother to. Flip out about it, but anyway Athens. One of our favorite little places. That little indeed, in terms of militancy, but more more bombs, more cars being burned just a whole lot of stuff lately, it's just can hardly keep up with it. And these are the just the ones we. Hear about on Tuesday a Finnish diplomats car was burned and. Greece's governing conservative party. Was visited, there was an arson spree that included that. Yeah, just could go on and on with this. List of stuff. They're they're always. They're always doing it with these with these homemade these little gas canisters for cooking or heating, you can. Tie some of them together and they make a. They make a very nifty, handy little explosive, apparently. Let's take a break. Should we take a break? There's a little music and come back. I think this this short.

Speaker 4: Well, that's all.

UNKNOWN: Now come on.

Speaker 6: Back home back home back home.

Speaker 7: Literacy is not just the ability to read literacy fires.

Speaker 4: For every.

Speaker 7: The imagination enriches the mind and teaches values.

Speaker 5: Into a red one and jumped.

Speaker 7: Read to your children and they'll enjoy books for a day. Teach them to read and they'll enjoy books for a lifetime.

Speaker 4: And that is a story.

Speaker 8: Hi, I'm Marlene Walden, my husband, Congressman Greg Walden, and I urge you to read with your children because literacy is a gift for life. This message brought to you by the National Association of Broadcasters and this station.

Speaker 5: Are you wondering where to find progressive news and community affairs in the? Southern Willamette Valley TuneIn to inform Radio News we bring you progressive news and community affairs by interviewing nationally known and local experts activists and helping people about issues, events, and alternatives to inform your discretion, your mind and your soul. Listen to inform radio each Monday at 6:30 PM just after free speech Radio News on 88.1 FM KWVA, Eugene.

Speaker 2: Actually, I'm not looking for progressive news. I'm looking for news. For example the four teenagers who stole 27 baby Jesus statues from nativity scenes in Sayreville, NJ and plan to burn them.

Speaker 3: But want to shake their hands. You want to.

Speaker 2: Shake their hands. It's far more interesting to be the progressive news today that you. Two of the suspects who ranged from 15 to 19 said they acted out of boredom. Authorities said maybe they were bored with progressive news and that maybe that's part of it. I don't know. Yeah, they plan. To bring and this great 27 baby Jesus. I hope my son and the others will come to grips with what they've done and make full restitution and get whatever help they need to get rid of those feelings, said somebody Olson whose son was one of them apparently. Yeah, Michael has been hanging around with the wrong people. He said he goes to college. He's an outstanding young kid. I think so. When you say it's outstanding.

Speaker 7: Yeah, sounds great.

Speaker 2: It's Gee. I think that's outstanding. Yeah, you should get some sort of award maybe.

Speaker 3: Extra credit.

Speaker 2: Extra credit. I have something from from the Walmart front. Is there's? That's certainly certainly an issue of. Well, it's an issue of cheap standardized. Crap, it's an issue of. Have very low pay, and so on and so on and. Well, there's something called the Walmart Workers Association. That was written about in labor notes by Nick Robinson recently. In fact, last week. They have at least 300 Members I guess. Among Walmart folks. And it's interesting. That they have been getting a lot done and I and I wouldn't say that this some revolutionary organization. But then you wouldn't say that about any union, but the point is they don't wait to be licensed by the government. They don't wait for. For all these government restrictions that then say that then they can be. An organization. Anyway, It’s interesting. Once again, I mean this has popped up. I haven't talked about this too much, but once in a while we've gotten some news. On these These more autonomous. Organizations self organization that are not these top down. Bureaucracies and they're not interested in leftist linking everybody tying them all up into the. Into those knots. Unaware, of course, that the number of people in unions keeps going down. And that's the whole thing in itself, but. They have certainly. They have certainly gotten a lot done, and I'm not going to go into the different grievances or issues or things they've overturned, but. When you look at some of these things like 2 weeks ago was the was the subway workers strike in New York City? And you could see all these people salivating. Oh, it's glorious classic class struggle. And the. Workers were. Well, they were up for three days. They came back with less than they were offered and this just the typical phony official union stuff that they pull all the time and. And the lefties always are the cheerleaders, and they wonder why. For the billionth time, It’s just another. Well to say sellout, it's not even. It's not even that It’s. It's worse than. That anyway india this. There's been a couple of things here. Pretty interesting. There have been hundreds of Indian tribes people in Orissa state india. One of the things was blocking a road and. This has been going on for a while to try to stop a planned steel mill. Lot of fighting people have been killed. And this week, in fact, this was came. I think this was Friday and it was announced on. On Saturday, I'm not totally sure, but it was this week. That 12 tribal people were killed after police opened fire. It's the same thing people of. The whole tribe. Were trying to stop controversial plans to build a steel plant on their land. One of at least 30 big mining and metal factory projects being forced through on tribal land by Orissa State government. This these industrialization projects have. Have displaced thousands over the past 20 years. Also dams. In this area. You know, maybe some people are happy because now they're going to be proletarians and we know how dangerous people have become since they've become proletarians. Don't we, yeah they've. There's way more rioting among. Workers and much more. Independence of action and. Autonomy then? Then prior to the factory system, huh? Or not well. I'm going to say this again. I don't. Well, I don't know why because this in Florida, but tomorrow the Earth first roadshow starts. And maybe we'll hear more about that. I think that includes a number of things that might be interesting. Some parrot radio news. The San Diego. Was busted down, but now they're back with the stronger signal. And they're sticking with it to free Radio San Diego. It was actually shut down in July. By the FCC., in the same vein, but,. Less cheery news that Tampa. An underground Station in Tampa. Pirate radio station was shut down last month and their equipment was seized $20,000 worth of electronic equipment. Hope they can bounce back too. There’s a lot there's. Still a lot of pirate radio out there. Micro radio. Yeah, well, more on seeing more news from Athens and because blowing things up. Always good. Well, this passed so the last half of this week has been one of those. A few day periods, which was especially bloody and other real spark in US casualties in Iraq. It was an interesting piece a week ago. In a Sunday New York Times the army, faced with its limits, it's all about the trouble of finding combat troops. For a long war or occupations, or. Imperial ambitions. Yeah, I mean there were people who. Who ended up in Iraq? American Military, National Guardsmen and so on. And they didn't. Little did they think that they would end up there and then end up, for example, having their tours just automatically extended and really stuck. And a lot of them are dead, of course, but. Yeah, it's going to make people think again when you when they get all these lies from their recruiters. Oh no, you can pick out what you want to do and where you want to be, and we'll give you all this money and. I'll have to have your limbs shot off and some. Someplace that the. That needs to be controlled or the effort made. Now I'm going to shift a little. Bit here to. South American once again. And I'm not saying this necessarily the greatest article, I'm I don't know and I've said before I'm not. A great expert on Chiapas on the CLN and. The whole. Zapatista political climate But I think it's becoming more and more clear the turn to the left because it's extremely explicit since last month, especially since November. Now we're in January. That's not last month, but. Some official pronouncements from the ZBLAN bureaucracy and now. Of course, what's been much in the news is Subcomandante Marcos and his nationwide political. Bandwagon, which in a way is not electoral, but of course it is electoral. It's it, doesn't they? They're not fielding candidates, but it is part and parcel of the presidential election that will be happening in July. And Fox, the current president has given him a pass, giving them a pass to visit all 31 states. interest and guaranteed their safe passage. You know you want to play the game good. Welcome you. And doing that, there's a big story here on Friday in the New York Times. Called the Zapatistas, return a masked Marxist on the stump, and of course, this guy was a. Was a Marxist college instructor, and. Most people think that he was and is and well, it's straight up that he is now. So dashing certain illusions. I guess part of this thing, they're talking about different rallies. And this in Palenque. Site of some noted Maya ruins. As they start winning their way N they're still in Chiapas, a crowd of mass supporters, many of them farmers bust in that morning, held banners with slogans like death to the free trade agreement and death to neoliberal globalization. A red flag with hammer and sickle flew in the crowd nearby. Someone strung up large portraits of Marx Engels. Linen installin And yet somehow this some a different. leftism, and there's nothing in this article about that this wasn't there. They're doing or their desire. There was nothing. Oh, we're not like that so. And they want a society. They want a world where workers deserve a place that they deserve. But there's a lot of. There's been a lot of. Let's face it, shifty rhetoric. This the other campaign. This you. Know just. But it has been as I say. More transparently leftist, validly leftist. I don't know. People don't want to see that, but that’s what's up with that. Meanwhile, Bolivia, the new president Evo Morales, who is a native. Indigenous individuals now. Going to have to do, I think. Very largely what? What Lula has done in Brazil, and that is run the modern industrial state. And actually, there's a pretty good piece from the AP. It just says the title despite leftist rhetoric Morales will do business. The apparent president-elect of Bolivia knows he must deliver on promises. Well, you don't run the country if you don't do that and if. If you're interested in running the country. And I'm sure that includes Travis, there's a little bit of a cushion there because of all the oil, but. But once again. What's different there in terms of? Status politicians who want mass society who want to rush right into it because it's because it is a pretty wonderful thing. We all know it sure does lead to some great results on every level. You know, we've gotten some. We've gotten some great letters. I'm talking about green anarchy, and now we're starting in earnest to. Work on green anarchy. #22 which will be coming out at the very beginning. We're almost the very beginning of spring. Well, probably actually before the end of February, which is earlier still but. Anyway, we've gotten some. We just grade we got. We got a letter. From somebody in MissourIn a prison there it's a whole story. I wish maybe I should read this whole thing I'm I guess I won't do it now, but an amazing I think I will read a little bit of about about a jailbreak. And he was hoping that if this was covered in green anarchy, but it actually happened in the early 90s before green anarchy existed, but. And we just get some amazing stuff and certainly not just from prisons. Me a little bit escaped from Chariton County Jail in Keytesville Missouri twice the first time was around September 92. I went over the fence. I left a cell full of scent masking paper pepper. And took with me a pair of sweatpants and a tank top under my jailhouse oranges, along with a pack of smokes and a lighter. I got a couple of miles away and took off all my clothes and wiped my scent off with my oranges. Then I this jumpsuit that is then burn them and changed or mask my scent with the smoke. I was trapped by the dogs later in a cornfield but still got away. I was seen by a spotter plane used by the pigs and later a helicopter. They had on loan to find me. I ate bugs, flowers and drank from rain puddles. I found my feral roots. For a few days and I never felt more alive. I was eventually caught in a bean field with nowhere to run or hide for miles with an escort escorted by 16 police cruisers. And so forth, and so on, and. And then. And here's here's the second. I can read this one too after being attacked in maize. I beat up two deputies and ran out of the jail's front door, 5 doors total. Sorry to say that I was caught within an hour after being boxed in with cruisers and foot pursuit. I fought once more and got caught. It was November and I had. And orange. Jumpsuit and no shirt. It was snowing a couple of do. Gooders also ate in my ate it in my capture. Both times I had no outside help. I was 17 and only about £130 and they had drastically under underestimated me. There was a couple of attempts discovered but no charges. Filed from me chipping bricks out of the. Wall with the lock. Hasp sweeping up the mortar. I would replace the bricks, rolled toilet paper, cover it with the light film of toothpaste and sprinkle the mortar dust on it and the wall would look normal. I worked on it for days before it got discovered, but the hole wasn't big enough yet. Anyway, I don't know if this part is true or not, but I heard they build a new jail because of me and that the sheriff looks lost the election because of me. I like to think this true. Anyway, and then he closes up this letter by saying that. He went to the hole because he was in possession of a book. That he got from the GA distro. He says green anarchy is like my Old Testament and New Testament. It's pretty darn good and. Not in prison in Brooklyn. Keep up the good work. I just got the new issue and loved. It always makes. Always making me think while inspiring me to live so much better. Much love. That's pretty great, that's.. Make us. Look as hard as we can to do the best job we can do. You know there's some interesting once in a while you see some interesting cultural stuff. Here for example. In the New York Times, that is mostly is where I find stuff here. There's an artist. Called Josephine Meckseper, she had a show somewhere in Chelsea in the city. She's anarchist and there's this sounds like an amazing show. Well, it's long. I think they should have brought it up, but it's interesting to see stuff that's explicitly anarchist in the art world too. And here's a dance troupe. Actually, this also performed in Chelseand Midtown Manhattan. The dance group called Body Vox and they have been doing a show. Modern dance show called Civilization unplugged. About the harm of technology. Well, I don't know what that would look like, but they get quite a write up. Taking on technologies discontents with a bit of whimsy. It didn't sound real whimsical, it sounds about. Like cell phone use can kill you and all. All kinds of stuff. That's great. 3460645 You still got time to call. Why don't we? Why don't we play that one of the real short one right now, OK? Because we got music to closeout with.

Speaker 6: Down to this method. Not just survival. I've got the future. I gotta gotta gotta. Murder you need. All the girl. Bring some God I wanna do need and what I've got for yourself. Use your brain for yourself.

Speaker 5: The plan is.

Speaker 4: Then on attack.

Speaker 6: I've got a lot of needs I've got. Knees God.

Speaker 4: High side. Modern OK word about books.

Speaker 2: Two that I know about that will be coming on before the end of the first half of this year, April and May the April book. Steve Best and Anthony Nocella have put together another book about another collection about resistance and I'm going to talk about that some more as we get closer. To its release I know it's got a wonderful intro. The very. Very solid intro that Steve wrote and that's something I want to make sure people. Are aware of when it comes out and then end game. It's a big Whopper 22 volume book. It's not. It's too big for one volume. It's that big in May. I think it's in May. Derek Jensen. And that long-awaited book. But here's one you don't have to wait for, but it's too bad it didn't come out in paperback. This a book from England called changing anarchism. And this was committed by. Jonathan perkinson James Bowen and it actually came out about a year and a half ago. Too bad. As they say, they were hoping it would be in pay. We're back. Interesting in several ways. Changing anarchism in the sense of changing an adjective, meaning that anarchism is changing and also changing. I think in the sense of active verb. What is changing anarchism? Anarchist theory and practice in a global age and this a collection. About a dozen contributions here. And what? One thing that this testifies to is how? This I mean this this a great artifact of this shift that's taking place, this. Virtually the whole thing is talking about anti civilization. Perspectives and no, not the whole thing that’s I'm overstating it but that's right in theart of what's changing, and most of these articles, virtually all of them take this up in one way or another. To discuss this and my reading so far is that most. Of them are. I find it a real positive development, an exciting development, and I actually heard from Jonathan Perkins, one of the editors. Just a couple of days ago I just wanted to let him know how much I was turned on by this book. And he said, well, it's just. He's just finding all kinds of people turning on to this. He's an academic. I think he teaches at. Liverpool University of Liverpool or he's. Anyways, and it's really interesting that these most of the people are not. Some of them are academics. Most of them are not from London. I don't know why. I don't know what that is, in fact. You know, sometimes we think in the US East Coast is industrial and there's no nature there, and it's more traditional leftist productionised worker is anarchism, anarcho, communism and all that sort of thing as opposed to the West Coast which is much more green anarchy. To generalize. Wildly there, but you might think that the north of England, Manchester, Huddersfield, the Lancaster, Liverpool and these different places where some of these people work. And again, not, not always in academe. And some of them are. Academics and quite a few of mark, but anyway, only one or two from London so. I don't know, maybe the. Maybe the new ideas? Are less in the in the capital where we. One would think that most things come from somehow, or at least I guess. I assume that but. If you can get this, I would say you could easily get this from interlibrary loan. Go to your Public Library and changing anarchism, Perkus and Bowen. Are the editors and it's got a lot in it? It's got these. These are really. Interesting pieces, and it's not just all. You know, I'm not saying it's the whoopee for green anarchy all the way through, although there's some of that. But It’s. I think it's a serious engaging with it. Couple of pieces have nothing to do with it. Either pro or con, but other things that are going on in the anarchy. Mill, you and it's. It's prospects. In a lot of different ways. In a lot of different spheres. These mandatory thing about poststructuralism one about that and sexuality. All kinds of stuff and. Quite encouraging to see that. Actually, somebody called three times and couldn't get the phone thing to work. Somehow the radio was playing and they seemed to be foiled by that.

Speaker 3: Huh, yeah, you always have to. If you're listening to the radio and you try to call in, there's a there's a slight delay, and so it's very easy to get confused. When when you're calling in and you have the radio on in your room. Or wherever you are and then you try to talk to us, that's right. Little known

Speaker 2: Little one, well, I think we'll sign out and we're. Going to go out with some miles some. Some classic miles boplicity and so next Tuesday. Not this Tuesday. There won't be anything really this Tuesday, but next Tuesday Carl and two individuals from CFD will kick off the new earlier views expressed in this program are not necessarily. The views of KWV radio or the associated students of the University of. Might be wild boars again.