Washington Saturday Journal (April 6, 1996)

Introduction

The annual cherry blossom parade is still a week away, but the blooming of the trees is in high gear as you can see from our live picture this morning. From the Tidal Basin, taking a look over at the Whitehouse.

Welcome to the Saturday Journal, on this Saturday April 6^th. House and Senate still out until April 15^th

President Clinton and Vice President Gore will be on hand later today in Dover Delerware where the remains of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown and 34 others will be returning. We're going to have live coverage of that at 5 p.m. eastern time today.

Here's what's coming up in the next hour and a half on the Washington Journal.

First of all, for our first half-hour, we'll have John Heilemann, he is the National Affairs editor for Wired magazine as we go through the newspapers this morning.

Then in our newspaper roundtable coming up in about thirty minutes. Deepak Bhargava who he is the Center for Community changes director of public policy. And along with them Jessica Guevara. She is the director of programs for an organization called. The new Citizen Project. And then later on today we'll have our feature segment for the Saturday Journal. That will be on juvenile and gang crime. And joining us will be two members of the National Coalition of bios to need us.

John Heilemann Interview

We begin this morning with the front page of The Washington Times; a story by Ralph hollow. In which they had line reads Engler's past may hurt the shot at the ticket. He says this; "In the wake of speculation that he is an early favorite to be Bob Dole's running mate. Old stories are surfacing about his messy divorce. And his having twice failed physicals. For military service. During the Vietnam war."

John how in the morning. How important is that story.

John: I'm not sure how important it is certainly certainly doesn't help. Anything any bad story any kind of. Damaging story that kind of comes out. At the moment when the candidate for the presidency is thinking about who's going to his running mate can't help I mean Engler has a lot of a lot of very strong. Qualities that make him. Very attractive to Bob Dole. At the same time. The stories I think the stories about his divorce which are have to do with him having had a mistress and him having paid her some money from a checking account or. Are not as troubling I think probably to the dole people as are the military draft stories which suggest that. Not just that Engler failed to drop a physical twice which he did. And he failed both of them on account of having been overweight. But that. He apparently told people at the University of Michigan at Michigan State. That he had. Perked up. So that he would fail those those physicals and if those are true if those rumors are true. They are. They're bad news for him in the sense that they kind of would take away. They would. Make it make for an unflattering. Contrast with Dole of course the great war hero and would take away some of the of the contrasts they would want to suggest with President Clinton.

How bad does John Engler want to be vice president. So bad it hurts so bad it hurts he. He aches for it and he's like every other. Like everybody else who wants to be vice president very badly he denies that he's campaigning for it I was with him a couple weeks ago. And he was denying. In an entirely unconvincing way his his desire to be vice president that he is campaigning for it about as hard as you can campaign for it then how is he campaigning. Always deny it. I why I think that there's the governor is obviously a major player in national politics he's one of the few. Governors who has emerged on the national stage as. As a a leader. Within the party as the. As the. When the Republicans took over Congress in one thousand nine hundred five as you know the. The number of the more innovative Republican governors. Took stepped up kind of in the National I'm light particularly on issues like. Welfare reform and Engler has been a leader and policy. Innovation or. Is is thought to be one in the Republican Party and. He has a lot of contacts here in Washington his staff is in close contact with people on the Dole campaign he's up very late Dole endorser but was. Was a tacit Dole endorser for a long time even before he formally came out the door in door stole he was working on his behalf in Michigan. Quite extensively and. Though. The Dole campaign was a little bit annoyed that he waited so long to endorse. He has been working quite hard for Dole since then and is making it clear that he he would be important for dole and could bring Michigan. Which is obviously an important state in the electoral map for for the in the general election. Regarding these allegations according to our piece he says allegations surrounding the divorce were revived by the Detroit Free Press last week. Mr Engler has denied accounts that he used his checking account. Which he shared with his wife to make payments to a mistress. As charged by his wife. In divorce proceedings. How long has he been divorced. I'm not actually sure. And then I don't really. I think a several years he's just he's remarried about I think two or three years ago. Now has these three beautiful triplet daughters. But I think that divorce was in the mid eighty's. I wanted to show our viewers a copy of the piece about you that appeared earlier this week in The Washington Post and it says. Live Wire on the web.

Was the headline What did you think when you woke up and saw that on Monday. Well. I didn't think much I was actually out of town and. Didn't wake up and see it. But I knew it was coming and it was of course again quite pleased to see it it's. It was a very kind article by Howie Kurtz. Do you write for. I write for. Well I have my primary employer. Is Wired magazine. And the wired family actually wired as. A San Francisco based magazine that writes about the sort of economic political and cultural fallout from the digital rights revolution. And why it has an online sister company which is almost as big as wired now called Hot Wired. So the companies are sort of. Are sort of. Siblings in a way. And I do. Monthly magazine articles for Wired. And then write for the. Hot Wired for the political Web site that. Hot Wired started at the beginning of this year which is what this article in the posts about. And I'm also a contributor to The New Yorker. How how why is this hot wired different how is it different from what the political coverage that most people see. Well I think that it's different in the sense that.

Well it's certainly different because it's online for one thing and. Only on line and only online ever appears on paper. And so in the year of the year of the net and politics. Hotwired is kind of. Doing some very innovative things. In the sense that there are a lot of print. Organizations such as The Washington Post and Newsweek and The New York Times who have all gone online and established Web sites to present various material. The difference really with hot wired is that. Whereas the post and. The Times basically recycled material that they've already printed in the newspaper. All of the material that appears in our web. Site which is called The net is and. Is original. It's coming. You know it's not doesn't appear anywhere else it's not recycled newspaper material it's stuff that we're doing writing originally. For the web and it appears they're only there. And it's you know they were there so I'm not the only one who's there are a number of people who are involved in that as and who are contributors to it some more regular than others but. We like to think that it kind of provides a fresh take on politics from the standpoint of people who are part of the online community. And not. And not necessarily part of the political community per se but also that it's a little bit more irreverent and kind of freed of. Some of the some of the constraints of traditional newspaper journalism. I want to show our viewers a page from the April section of the Wired magazine in an article written by you for and. What is this. Well that's a wonderful illustration by. The illustrator who does the illustrations for all of my pieces in the magazine. Who's named Luby choose a Californian. Illustrator and Lou The piece is about the. Tensions within the Republican coalition. And suggests that because of. Tensions between economic conservatives and libertarians on one hand and social conservatives and. Religious conservatives on the other that. The G.O.P. big tent is is. Is going to collapse in on itself and I think what Lou is trying to get across with this illustration. Was the fundamental absurdity of a party that has within it both. The be canonised elements and. Sort of Republicans who would have liked to see Colin Powell on the ticket. We're going to start taking your calls in just a few moments your ticket to getting on this first half hour's drive a newspaper article from this morning's newspaper or a recent article that you want to share with us or they do you think that we could learn something from it see the phone numbers at the bottom of your screen. Before we had our next story just want to say you had mentioned it you also like for The New Yorker in this section to TALK OF THE TOWN What is it. Well talk of the town is the. Is that one famously at the New Yorker is the first section with the calm. And Section which. Which runs before it in The New Yorker but really the first. Pieces of non commentary writing. That appear in the magazine every week come in talk and. It's use three or four pages every week. Which have a variety of short kind of sketchy stories in the usually focused on a personality. But sometimes not and. It's all the magazine's writers. Contribute to it. And they're kind of. Short as I say eight hundred to one thousand word pieces that try to not be terribly. Analytical obviously in that space but try to kind of. You know give a flavor of something and give a scene and kind of give kind of a taste of what's going on what's the buzz of the moment. And then I'd sort of do that for them. Every Other Week on politics more or less every. Not necessarily every other week the kind of on average I work for them.

You know kind of. Quite frequently. Russell Baker and you mentioned a reverend before this might be one one might say this is a little irreverent in this morning's New York Times. He writes a whole piece about age differences. A For people who might follow President Clinton. And people who might follow Bob Dole. I want to read a couple and get your reaction. Because of the family campaign he says. People who are Bob Dole is age. Look at Bill Clinton and think that we are now being governed by the people we used to spank. People who are Billick Bill Clinton's age. Think. We are now being threatened by the people who wouldn't let us have the card Saturday night. Well it's it's absolutely right and he kind of goes through the. He goes through bouncing back and forth throughout this piece with each of them kind of replaying back and forth off each other responding to one another and. I mean the conceit works very well because both Russell Baker both a wonderful writer and does it very humorously. But also it kind of gets at a basic. Kind of theme of what the campaign is going to be all about which is this. Generational conflict between the boomers and their parents. And there is a kind of drips. The the the campaign drips with that tension I think because you know the whole theme of Bob Dole basically is you know this comeback adults rather than the comeback kid and the notion that the boomers have kind of proven. Themselves to be incapable of governing the country not quite grown up enough. People who are Bob Dole is age think if they couldn't be trusted with a car on Saturday night. It's crazy to letting them have the atom bomb. People who are Bill Clinton's age thing if they couldn't understand a word the Rolling Stones were singing.

How can they possibly cope with the world of Snoop Doggy Dogg. Well it's yeah it's a scam it's quite true. And I think that. One of the things that. That will happen in the course of the campaign is that you'll see. You know Bob Dole kind of. Implicitly suggesting that he wants to kind of take America. Going to once to kind of revive the world of. Post World War two America. The kind of golden years of the one nine hundred fifty S. and Bill Clinton kind of suggesting over and over again we can't go home to that world you know that world is not going to come again this is a crazy world a time of crazy change and we're in this transition from an industrial era to an information age and and. Someone who's Bob Dole's age and who's lived. The last thirty years in a world that is as small in some ways as. The Watergate K. Street. And the Senate is not really cut out to lead modern America in this time of. Bath like phase change that it's going through right now and that you need someone who's a little more postmodern.

To do the very last one from the Russell Baker's piece in this morning's New York Times. People Bob Dole's age and do they know about our hardship and suffering in the Depression. Only what they saw in The Grapes of Wrath which most of them probably haven't even seen. Because it's in black and white and they can't stand movies they're not in color. People Bill Clinton's age say. This is the same crowd that used to bore us out of our schools talking about their macaroni and cheese diet back in the bronze age. Who wants to listen to tales of heartbreak when C.E.O.'s and baseball players can make five million dollars a year. By thinking. Big our first call this morning for John Heilemann is from New York City good morning. And good morning. What are you reading this morning that. I'm reading from The New York probably in the. I don't like to have a minute or two I notice that he and. I only seem to have the Whitewater scandal. Support. Bill Clinton and. You know they go on and on every day I'm not going to waste my time talking about how long you've done it. But I get what I've got gotten in the closet. By tamarind. And I'd like to go into. Some of the background. That is a round thing that I don't see an INSIDE POLITICS with Judy Woodruff. Nor any of the insiders in Washington seem to want to cover. And this is from The New York Post and. It is from this morning. Just let me talk about what's a grounding. OK. C.-SPAN never wants to talk about They'd rather focus on Whitewater. Go ahead. David Owen. He's a long time don't know why and. And he was a former chief fundraiser. At the Kansas senator. Now the bottom line on this whole thing is through. Vanity and deal. He made put one hundred thirty thousand dollars. But the senator. And then. He was indicted because the senator. This sound. And I want it. Said made to the take. Scrutiny off. Him. Campaign finance. By the way David I when is a long time friend. I've always said this whole by the way. Nobody seemed to want to scrutinize. We're all focused thing on Hillary but leave me out a little. As I would not have X.. Going to do. About what color. Something out campaign finance Wendell's nineteen eighty presidential campaign was short of cash. His wife. Out there. The thing has been done. From a bank. I don't buy. Oh and the guy that went to do you know at less than the prime rate. And he gave good money. To the campaign. How do you think that could be gated because the loan appeared to be. Only heard that. That was going down lower limit. New York City thanks very much for the call this morning let's get Mr Heigham his response. Have you heard of.

David Owen or any of these charges. I haven't actually. To be honest I haven't really been thinking much about the Dolan has. And his financial background having been discovered running around on the campaign trail the last few weeks but I mean it's. I think there's an assumption. In Washington that. Bob Dole. Unlike some of the other Republican presidential campaign Candy that's like Lamar Alexander. He's kind of been thoroughly vetted. But he's been around for such a long time that everyone has had a chance to look into his background and. Has has found if there were any skeletons there would have found them by now and. I think probably that that's not to suggest that there are skeletons in his closet but it's probably not true. To the extend that. Bob Dole has been a public figure for a long time. There is actually a level of scrutiny that is greater in presidential once he becomes a presidential candidate. Even for someone who has been a scrutinizes Bob Dole has been in the. You know earlier. The New Yorker. Published an article by Jane Mayer. Last fall or. This really this winter which. Which caused a lot of. Which caused a lot of consternation among the dull people about what he told finances. And I suspect that there will be pieces. Like that that will come out. Not. Again to suggest that there are skeletons and those closet but just to suggest that there will be a more careful. A much more careful and rigorous scrutiny of everything the Doles have done financially in the past and. It is clear that Senator Dole and Liddy Dole are both wealthy people. That Senator Dole has been in public service for a long time and. Given the salaries of the Senate that that's not a way to get rich. And that. The Liddy Dole comes from. Old money. That there will be given particular given those close ties to a lot of corporate donors that there will be as I say a lot. Very rigorous. A lot of very rigorous scrutiny. Trying to look trying to look at the connections between. Donations to the senator's campaign fund and the private finances of the goals that. We'll be reading a lot more about that I think than if the caller's concern about the fact there hasn't been very much compared to Whitewater that I think there probably will be a lot more of it in the months to come.

Clear Water Pennsylvania your next morning. This Clearfield Pennsylvania. Sorry clear field. Yet. Thanks what are you reading this morning. Went out. Night. That you went about. Corrupt and then yeah. It's by Jack. Anderson. And then Michael. Been saying. And where did you find that in our clear rock. And you know about the corruption there under the you and black marketing. Fuel. And. And there is rape and. Yes. In the corrupt thing you can think up. And then I bring my mind. To your brown. Sneaking in although the. The and. As you know. Very premature there's no way they could get up there. And that they are yet. But that this never would it be known that the good Clinton administration was playing footsie with corporate welfare and. Then when it would happen and job. Would go to Bosnia down that. In the future they would blame the Republican. Corporate welfare. So I don't think we should be. So in hand on the eulogy I think Mr Brown never did anything that he didn't get paid under the table. Mr Heilman. I think that's silly. Ron Brown. Had various ethics investigations about him that were that went on. When he became secretary of commerce and a lot of people have their various issues with him and his connection to the world of lobbying and whether it was. Appropriate for him to become commerce secretary. That said. It was nothing secret about what Ron Brown was doing. In Bosnia. To suggest that everything. Ron Brown did he got paid for out of the table is ridiculous. What was going on in Bosnia with the mission that was sent over was that. In addition to providing. Peacekeeping troops. That we've sent to Bosnia is that we're also realizing that we need to be engaged in political and. The political and economic side in the reconstruction of. Of what was once Soviet Union and. For that to happen there's going to need to be some private sector involvement there's going to need to be companies getting involved in rebuilding the infrastructure in Bosnia etc. And I think what this mission was about was trying to make American So American companies. Get interested in the notion of making an investment in the reconstruction of a country there's going to be a meeting in a couple of weeks trying to get private sector involvement from around the world. In the reconstruction of the former Yugoslavia and. What was happening here was. Had nothing to do with corporate welfare had nothing to do with government money it had everything to do with the government. Trying the American government trying to suggest to American businesses that there was. But they had an interest. Both economic and. And more broadly in the reconstruction of that country and then there was no sneaking involved or anything so I think the caller's just a little bit. Being a little paranoid.

Earlier in the week. Our viewers had asked questions. On this program. About people besides. Ron Brown who were on that plane. The Washington Post used today to. Cover its front page section. With pictures and stories about some of the other victims of the plane crash. The New York Times' chose as his front page. Left hand story. About the issue of high risk is raised in the crash of Brown's plane. And John Cushman writes this. In about the third paragraph. Military pilots think of themselves as different. Even if their planes like the. One are often almost identical to those in commercial fleets. Since. Other planes have landed safely in Dubrovnik before then it might be understandable if the officers in command of Mr Brown's flight succumbed to the dangerous aliment. That in aviation circles goes by the name. Get their I.D.'s. Take the next call from Washington D.C. Good morning. Fans think I'm reading that. Quadrant had forced out of command five days before Brown crashed on a date on.

I got here by Bradley Graham and John Phillips All right. Let me show it to our viewers here thoughts on that. Well I just hope a full investigation. Done I mean it. Stayed here that they are for squadron leader who had responsibility for the plane that Kerry carried Secretary Brown. And thirty four others to their death was forced to relinquish his command five days before Wednesday's crash in the heat. The article if you read the whole article it talks about that. This. Colonel that was forced down. Was concerned about the safety of the flights around there.

And here's a quote from him saying. It was unplanned in any time you change a leadership that way it's disruptive. Yeah exactly and also the very last paragraph of the article talks about the way back in Nineteen Eighty-Four it with her but recommended that Caspar Weinberger that all. Military passenger carrying aircraft be retrofitted with up to date recorders. And I find that very disturbing that twelve years ago that. They the secretary of defense and everybody was saying that all these planes should be have. Recorders. And now we find out this is one of. One or two of the only planes that. Didn't have recorders of those. So. Thirty four planes or twenty four of that version. I really hope we get a full complete investigation.

I just can't believe something like this would happen. Thanks. Straley. Yeah I haven't read the piece in The Post of callers talking about but. There are been tons of questions already raised about. About the safety of such a fly about the equipment on the plane. Again not not a story I've really been following. Very closely but it certainly I mean there are you know. Lots of questions about. About about what was about what happened I mean we still really have a cause of the crash. And I think there will probably I mean if the caller's concern about there being a full investigation I'm sure there will be because a lot of people want to know how this could have happened it seems kind of. Still I think to a lot of people it still seems slightly. Unbelievable. As you mentioned earlier the remains of the. Thirty five people will be coming back into Dover Air Force Base Dover Delaware. At five P.M. Eastern Time this afternoon and C.-SPAN will have live coverage as Pres the president and vice president go out there and have a short ceremony where you from originally as Angelus and had. What got you into. First of all journalism and then secondly into something in cyberspace. Now. I think at some point I realize that there were. There was only about one thing that I could do even more generally well when I was writing and so I sort of fell into journalism because I couldn't imagine how else to make a living in the in the world. Cyber Space came to me differently I was for a period of time I worked for The Economist magazine. And was the media writer for The Economist and cover the media industry and. At that point. The kind of fusion between the computer industry in the media industry. And the entertainment industry was all proceeding apace in the early one thousand nine hundred I was covering that. And started writing for Wired. On the side. And that relationship developed and then as the year I was in one thousand nine hundred sixty. Started to roll around at that point I'd come back to Washington and. Started writing for The Economist here. And. Wired And I started talking about whether. Whether it made sense for me to do something with them. For one thousand nine hundred six. That seemed exciting to me and part of the package in addition to getting to write these. Quite long analytical screeds in the magazine. Was to do this online column that seemed very exciting also because of course. The World Wide Web is a very exciting and and. Very innovative medium. And it also just from a personal standpoint. It allows one to. To kind of have a lot of fun. On the campaign I mean there's a lot of things that you. That if I was only writing. My magazine pieces there are an awful lot of really fun scenes and things that I that that one sees out on the trail that we can get used to the. The thing about the online column which I write daily is that. I get to kind of tell everybody about what the funniest most entertaining. And most stuff. Most revealing thing that happened to me that day was that for a writer that's kind of a rare or a treat about which.

Unabomber Story #1

A bachelor's degree in Political Science in journalism from Northwestern. Master degree from Harvard. Is so used to cover the media.

One quick question to you about this piece in this morning's Washington Post also written by the same gentleman who wrote the piece about you earlier this week how would Kurtz. It's about how C.B.S. handled the Unabomber case. It says that. C.B.S. was going to had plans to run the whole story about the the. Plans to charge the Unabomber. And here's a quote that says this whole thing went down because C.B.S. was going to run it Wednesday which forced our hand a federal law enforcement official said. We wanted to watch him at least a little bit longer we wanted to look at possible travel. We wanted to work further on his finances. There was another installment of the manifest are due in June there were lots of good reasons to wait and watch. Yet another face. A federal official said that C.B.S. has plans to air the story was the motivating factor in the decision to do the search warrant.

John: Well it's I mean it's really raises fascinating issues a lot of people have been discussing this mean from a point of view really more of a journalistic ethics in a sense I mean this issue of whether. As journalists our main. Obligation is as quote citizens or as quote journalists I mean what one person likes to think that the two things aren't mutually exclusive but you know the competitive pressures of daily journalism are such that when someone gets onto a story. And you know that your competitors are also one of that story. It's very hard to in the absence of some kind of a collective agreement like with the decision of the post of the Times to publish the Unabomber where they could get together and say OK we're both going to do this to publish the first section of the manifesto. And. Absence of that. It's very hard for one journalist one journalistic organization to say. We're going to be good citizens and not publish and not. Race To put this on the competition kind of gets out of control and. I think in a kit and so on some occasions. The unfortunate consequence of that is for something like this to happen. The question that I have although we all kind of agree that it would be nice if it didn't happen like that is what to do to stop it I mean apart from collusion apart from all of the networks getting together and saying OK we all have the story but we're not going to publish it in the interests of. Being good citizens and letting law enforcement do its work. How you can prevent it from happening. And. And for fairness to be as executives for their part to according the story. Say they delayed the story for several days while consulting with the F.B.I.. Just how many thanks for stopping by this morning I hope you'll come back and Sirius. Sure well again. Happy to here's a little bit about what's going on this next couple weeks as we said earlier the House and Senate. Out of session until Monday April fifteenth you'll see live coverage then. The president has his weekly radio address at ten o six A.M. Eastern Time. And as we mentioned earlier we'll have live coverage of the arrival of the remains of second. Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. And the thirty four other people of Dover Air Force base in Dover Delaware. Beginning at five P.M. Eastern Time this afternoon. And also if you're interested in staying. The speech by President Clinton who spoke yesterday in Oklahoma City. You can watch that this afternoon at three forty five P.M.

Eastern Time. We'll be back with our newspaper roundtable just a few moments.

Coming up our newspaper roundtable with. Deepak Bhargava. Director of Public Policy for the Center for Community. Change and Jessop a former director. Programs. For the new sever friendship. Contact the person in the past two years I plan on the City bombing. Yesterday to commemorate the event. President Clinton passed the families who protect them to you know. The City. You know.

Clinton: I come here today as much as anything else. To thank you on this very difficult and painful day for me. When I have lost a great. And good friend. A lot of gifted. Employees of the federal government. Some of them very young. And some wonderful members of our armed forces and. Some of our nation's most able business leaders. The power of your example is very much. With me. And I thank you for that a year ago we were here to join in mourning your loss and praying for your healing. Today. I asked that we not only remember your loss but. Celebrate the rebuilding you have already done. And the work you will still do. I have relived the moments of. Last year. Many times in my mind since I was here with you and I have wondered how you were doing and prayed for your strength and I was honored to have two of your citizens. At the State of the Union address and to recognize their unique contributions to our country. Through their service to you. Just a few moments ago I was honored to lay a wreath along with the first lady and. Some children who survived and their parents. And then do. Dedicate that. Childcare Center. That will be built near the side of the bombing. Thanks to the remarkable efforts of your public officials and private citizens together. You have shown how strong you are. And you have given us all an example of the power of faith. And community. The power of those Gods grace and. Human courage. On this Good Friday. What you have done has demonstrated to a watching and often. Weary and Senekal. World. That good can overcome evil. That love can outlast hate that the light of human life can shine on. Through the most terrible darkness. And so I thank you for that. Saturday Journal continues.

Newspaper Roundup

Joining us for a newspaper roundtable this morning Deepak Bhargava he is the with the Center for Community Change. And he's the director of public policy good morning good morning. What's your first story you had to share with us this morning. Well I have a story from Mother New York Times that's about the. Beating in Riverside California. The immigrants. And what I think is interesting about it. Is that it really hits. Kind of too hot button issues that are playing in the in the political arena the first thing that around sort of police brutality a particular aspect of minorities in the second. Of the immigration debate which I think has gotten quite. Virulent on. And they asked in this country in the last few months. Just as the story is by Julie oppressed in this morning. Under the headline beating increases tension on immigration. She says every night since Tuesday when the videotape was first broadcast here the beating has dominated the main television network television said this yes this is a story out of Mexico City. A private network that often serves to air government views Televisa. Has portrayed the Mexican immigrants as wantonly brutalized victims of American racism. Yeah I think it's. It's interesting that the level of noise around this issue. And the level of tension that it's created between the United States and Mexico is really quite remarkable. And coming on the heels of the Rodney King. TAPE I think it's really quite a live issue in California particularly. What was your first impression when you saw the videotape. Well I think the impression most people had which was horror that the level of violence that seemed on a necessary unprovoked. That was displayed by the cops towards. Towards the immigrants. Jessica Vores Also with us this morning she's director of programs at the new Citizen Project Good morning good morning your first story. I had taken a couple looks at some things I'm interested in this story that was covered by all the major media this morning regarding the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy. It was a case. Out of the Fourth Circuit Courts are great goals and. What is it that well it deals with a Navy lieutenant who was discharged for telling his commanding officer that he was gay. And the court ruled that the Navy was in fact within his purview. Into starting this. This gentleman. For violating the president's policy the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy compromise that was worked out how does this mean for you. Why did you choose that story first to say. Here it is in the front page of The New York Times today. I think it's an interesting. One more kind of interesting conservative ruling by by appeals courts. And by by the judiciary in general. With regard to. Judicial activism there was a blow for you to sow activism this ruling. And a real kind of confirmation of that though. The proper what I view the proper role in the political process and. In resolving these disputes the court said that they didn't see the it. To be the jurisdiction of the court to overrule the compromise struck by the president and the compromise that came out of the political process. This is you just saw the front page of The Baltimore Sun this is a dentist in Dennison's piece he writes a lot of. Of the court he's the chief court person. For the Baltimore Sun. He said that. Again that they said that the policy was strictly limited because military issues. Essentially are for Congress and the White House to handle. But no action is served by the Supreme Court. Is likely perhaps for a year but that this case is probably on its way to the Supreme Court did you see this story and you have any reaction to I did. I was actually quite disturbed by the decision there's been some conflicting decisions in other courts with respect to the administration policy. But the reality is that the policy has not fundamentally changed the the reality that. That many service members are being kicked out of the military simply for telling the truth about who they are. And I think it's bad for morale and. And bad for the country to to have people as a matter of policy and whine about. But their orientation so. I think it's a matter of. Real concern. Another story for you. Well if I could just be sure I have it was one thing there I mean both sides I think didn't like this ruling. Some of the family pro family groups. Didn't like this ruling. Some of the activists and gay groups don't like this ruling. But I think on the gay activists side. What they seem to be asking for in this policy is not simply. For government to stay out of their sexual preference. But for an affirmation of what it is I mean they seem to be seeking to seeking to to it to where their sexuality where there aren't ation on their sleeve in the military.

And going beyond simply of a posture of tolerance to something more than that. I think it's not tolerance of something if you can't talk about it. Can't declare who you are and I guess my concern is that. There are thousands of people who honorably serve their country who are being unfairly treated for for no reason having to do with how well they do their jobs.

Unabomber Story #2

Jessica: They start another story I saw I thought was interesting kind of an interesting dichotomy. I know you touched on it in their earlier segment with regard to C.B.S. as crafts having forced the hand of the F.B.I. and they you know bomber. Made you chose to try this low on looks like it's a Philadelphia fire I think. I think I'm sure I'd try to tell by the print in the wires that it was yes it is wires are separate however.

But you think this is interesting I just it just kind of points up you know there seems to be a conflict. Conflicting opinions within the F.B.I. with regard to exactly what happened here. And how aggressive the media was in pushing on this investigation. But this is a case in which the media has played a a great role seem to be that there has been a high degree of cooperation between the media and law enforcement in the Unabomber case since that letter to you know I don't I think it's entirely appropriate. In this case. Yes I don't think that there was a public's right to no purpose that overweighed the need to cooperate with with line.

C.B.S. as they say they held the story for three days. Because that distribute.

Well I think it's a really close judgment call but I think the network probably did the right thing in balancing duties of journalism duties of citizenship.

Another Story from you story for me I'm sure. It's this this is a story about the president though a president all. Hopeful that doesn't already insula. That's right. Senator Dole in Florida. Came out to support. Preserving the Everglades. But he also at the same time. Came out to oppose. Taxing the sugar industry to do it. And I thought it's interesting contrast between the environmental approach truth. Of the Republicans and the end of the administration. But also interesting that he felt it necessary to show some sensitivity on those issues which clearly play well. Sugar in the sugar issue was part of I think the farm bill that was signed into law this past week. I don't that well I think it's. I agree with Deepak I think it's said sign of the kind of schizophrenia with regard to Republicans out of our mental issues I think they see a lot of mileage for them. And I think they're a little frightened of these issues at the same time there are some powerful constituencies that they have to answer to that are dull took this helicopter ride over the Everglades. Yesterday as he's in Florida for a little vacation time. One more story. For jobs. Yeah. Lead story in The New York Times. Job growth. Picking up and. People are suspecting the Federal Reserve will look to increasing quick interest rates as we move towards November. But the basic significance is the economy looks relatively healthy and. Politically I think that bodes well for the administration for Clinton in the run up to the election. This story. By BOB her she says the gain of one hundred forty. Thousand. Dollars Excuse me. One hundred forty thousand jobs last month. Meant that the huge jump of more than six hundred thousand jobs reported in February. Was not a fluke economists said. The revival coming after a final quarter in one thousand nine hundred five when the economy was essentially flat. Apparently dashed hopes that the Federal Reserve. Would relax monetary policy again any time soon. And in fact there's a quote from one to economist underneath that it says make no mistake. If the rate of job growth that we have seen so far in one thousand nine hundred six were to persist. The Fed would move quickly to preempt any acceleration in wages.

Well it's interesting to see how this is going to play out with this administration support for an increase in the minimum wage which economists agree will hurt job growth and cut the numbers of jobs. And open up our phone lines invite you to join us this morning. With our two guests. Deepak Bhargava is.

I said that right denied Barton. Is with the director of public. Is Director of Public Policy for the Center for Community Change which is what the Center for Community Change provides assistance to. Community organizations working on low income neighborhoods to improve the neighborhoods and restaurant Bishes and affordable housing.

Reduce crime. Has consequences. Originally from New York City has a bachelor's degree from Harvard in social studies what got you interested in this. Well I grew up in New York City. And as all the best in the worst of America. And pretty real contrast between rich and poor and. I think that's probably what motivated my entry into the field. Just got a good Vora SCUSE ME director programs the new Citizen Project What is that. It is actually the new citizenship project using it we are a public policy group based here in Washington that has kind of taken it as our mission to suggest ways to shrink government and strengthen. Civil society. Those institutions that are. Apart from government like schools and neighborhoods and communities we take I think a less of a grassroots approach. Than it sounds like the pocks group. Does we. Deal on more the policy level speaking to policy makers journalists. Opinion leaders. You originally from Fairbanks Alaska that's right. Usually on Saturdays what we do is we bring people who are earlier in their career to the table to go through there and. Take a look at our newspapers. What age were you when you came from Fairbanks. When I came to Washington. And then I was just out of school so I was twenty two twenty three years old. What brought you here. I came to work for my home state Senator Frank Murkowski. I worked on Capitol Hill for four. Five years. And wanted to. I had interned in Washington. In college and. You know got the bug. Like so many people do. What are you how old were you when you came to New York City. Moved down after college as well. When I was twenty two and I came down here to work for some organization called ACORN which is a national community organization working on for the housing issues. What do you tell people your age who you say were younger. Who you see back in your hometowns or or here who want to come and make a career here in Washington. I tell them. For the most part to come. I mean there really couldn't be a more different. Mill you for a young person or an old person then. Washington D.C. in Fairbanks Alaska. But if you have an interest in politics and public policy I I I'm one of these people that. Kept promising myself I was going to leave Washington. After a few years and I haven't. And I doesn't look like I'm going to any time soon then I just. There is no better place in the world to work. Barca I'd agree with a lot of that for people of my political bent it's been a rough couple years and it's true they'll be coming to Washington hordes. Next. Last things change significantly. But it's a good interesting experience. Is it true that there's an then I mean from what you say there's an influx of the party in power coming to Washington at the time in which that party is in power.

And they. And the reverse would be true. Oh absolutely I think that after the ninety four elections. A lot of very young enthusiastic Republicans came to town hall look on Capitol Hill changed and. I can go back further than that I would like a mystery and. Regular ministration Yeah there were many like minded pleas fall with me. Young people in Washington.

Unabomber's mental health

Let's take some calls for you our first from Toledo this morning good morning good morning. Hello. Toledo Ohio Good morning.

You're on the air go ahead sir. You were those are been moved to the Unabomber.

Or whether that's going to be used with a plan.

Why does that interest you. What of that interest me. Well it's a personal concern. I have done for my advocacy I'm in the plea Doria on such issues. I think. You know. I don't want to debate the whole insanity defense counsel. This morning but. It's so good. I think he looks like a very distraught ma'am. I haven't seen any reports of it and just wondered if there were reports of a priest in anything.

I don't think it's clear what the defense's strategy is going to be.

Jessica: And we haven't heard from the family yet. Which obviously will. Would have something to say about his state of mind. One thing that's interesting I think I have a photo of the Unabomber I do. Well. I just have a gentleman Theodore Kaczynski Oh I just you know bomber has been charged the photos that I have seen in the past couple days of that. I think are interesting he's holding his head up high. Not interrupting to hide his face. I think kind of the posture of somebody who is. If he is in fact. The you know bomber. Is kind of showing a sense of having succeeded in his. And in bringing his message to the people.

Sharon Pennsylvania your next Good morning good morning Conny great show first I'd like to say I'm sorry I missed your show yesterday where you were trying to get like the like the want on the beat and coverage. But to get to the article because I know that was one of the things that we talked about you know I don't think I want to talk about the military officer or a man that was being released from the military because of his orientation. And apparently it was about it. Thanks to a preference. He had served the country with honor. Nothing to do with how they do their job. And I want to just both that what. Article two article in the paper. One to find. If you love child left. They thought of Frederick Maryland then they will. One of the people who had gotten the Nobel laureate. Nobel Prize winner if you will let the fifteen year old person. That was in the papers both yesterday and I think I have a follow up story on it today too I think I can find. And to thank an article agree with the same thing is the state agreed. Allowed. Tom laughter.

To be castrated you know whatever you want to call I don't. I want but other people to juxtapose what the military person who is being released. Because of his sexual preference. Wherein. Child molesters who have served with honor they will have the air in all walks of life here on EARLY. Angled out. I think they're opening a Pandora's box. When they start talking about any kind of life. Be socially acceptable. Because I don't really think that they can compare them. Though. To. I'm talking about alternative life too. I think like different. Then right. Or like that.

Thanks. Thanks very much. Action. Well I think that's a. If you're wrong to equator compare. Homosexuality and. Child molestation what happens between two consenting adults. Whether you like it or not want to be their business. What happens between an adult child. Is a social issue and. Is a crime that I would be a crime on the other big. Prosecuted.

So I really don't see any analogy between the two. Now I agree with Deepak I think we have different views on gays in the military but I don't think there's any quitting was too far if you're from Pennsylvania just a note if you would like to talk about a little bit about what the Washington Journal does and how it works and you missed that section yesterday which we were talking about it. Please feel free to drop us a line or fax us. With your thoughts.

Ideas boss Vegas. Good morning. Yeah I'd like to talk about that last point I want to manage that. You know bummer. And then there's quite a lot going on around the country like yours well. You know if you want to with a client bench try to get that news director. I want to watch they were used up. They were never held up in the papers or. On T.V. very much.

What are you happy with how the federal government is handling the Unabomber case. Yeah I guess. These are our graduate forty smart man. I don't know what I have to be got in that. The sure road stuff I guess. OK thanks very much. You get more this happens. Then we hear about more of this kind of terrorism. I think one of the interesting points raised by the I'm a rough you know bomber case is that it is such a case where just such and such a news item. And then in an open society in which we live a politically and kind of technologically. The opportunity for this kind of thing seems to be greater and it. I think is a good reflection on our society that it is the Unabomber is the story that it is.

Madison Wisconsin your next Good morning.

Madison Wisconsin Good morning. Good morning. I was just wondering. Last week I saw a new segment. About the Pentagon. Taking more stiffer action against a hate crime. And the military. Well what are they going to do. When they find out that the perpetrators of these a crime against gays and lesbians in the military. Also in a fake group. Well what response that they gonna do. Are they going to ask. These hate groups that are up in higher chain of command. Mr Brown Well I think that's a real problem for the military when. Service members are are members of outside organizations that preach racial hatred or other kinds of hatred. Clearly cannot be good for an organization where people need to work with diverse groups of people. But I don't know how you can balance that service members rights to join with they want to join Kentucky or next to the loop from a little bit Town Kentucky Good morning good morning. I'd like that both to your guess. About the story about the illegal aliens. That were stopped beating. I think we only get part of the story. I don't agree with what the police did and how they handled the situation after the. Not to be chased and if it would be been chased it speeds up one hundred miles an hour. And if the occupants of the vehicle. Began throwing all types of debris at the police. Including the camper shell which was on the truck and. I can see where the police were coming from like to see them losing their cool although I don't agree with the beating. Like to see if your guest could expound on that a little more. Well. I think this. Depok earlier mentioned here with the Rodney King beating and. We have to be careful the video tape. Does not tell the whole story. It's particular the segments that that we're seeing on the television of. The little thirty second bite. And there's more to this story certainly what I saw the police do on the videotape I was horrified by as well but. It is not the whole story it was a lengthy chase that occurred excuse me. And certainly there are other elements we have to wait and see what the whole story is here. Going to fall out of well I think the story that the with the footage showed was a. Was a pretty ugly one. And I think law enforcement as certainly as stressful and difficult. Occupation we can probably all imagine losing control but. I don't think anything justifies the violence that was meted out to those folks the fact. Go ahead I'm sorry I just think it. It does.

However point to a system really terribly under strain. In California particularly today with regard to the illegal immigration and. And a certain brazen defiance of that system on the part of these. These individuals that were at truck full of people crammed full of people traveling one hundred miles an hour down the freeway. Trying to evade.

A law full arrest by the police. Yeah I think one has to remember that the lives of most illegals. If you want to or riches and that mostly they're working on. Extremely poor paying jobs extra long hours and not getting rich. That doesn't mean we shouldn't force a lot of keep them out. But it's a miserable life and the police don't need to come down.

Distancing the Sierra Club from Earth First! & The Unabomber

Orange Texas your next Good morning good morning to your guest also. I would just like to. Point out a small discrepancy. One of your powers. Have said while ago when he said the Unabomber. Musta got into the Sierra Club stuff.

I'm a member member of Sarah club. I think he they. They're saying that he was part of. Perhaps our first group.

Which is a far cry from Sierra Club what is this here. It's an environmental group.

That's heard. On how I don't like some of the things that's happening with our first another but.

I just want to point that out.

We get enough. Bad press as of us from certain conservatives. About get what Peter Fox. That's really all I want it's like.

OK thanks very much let's take a call from Las Vegas Good morning. Yes. Good morning. Thank you for taking my call or. I'm a first time caller. My concern has been for the last. Everything on the Internet. Regarding the Mexico. Beating then California. Is that no one wants that the larger issue. I am an older woman. Senior citizen and I grew up in Arizona. Southern California a mining town I lived with Mexicans. All my own I Have a great deal. Section for them. But that's the reason that Mexicans come across that border. Not. Not because we pull them in we do. But why is there never any. Thought like a public opinion. Focus on the mic. Government. Why does someone more. And why the people are not given more opportunity. I have lived in America. I've traveled to Mexico. And it's a magnificent country. I love it dearly. But it seems to me that there could be more in Mexico. To produce at better living standards. So that the. People could be more content. They are proud. Nationally people. Get in my. Here's your chance. And I get their way a lot. And I hate to see the. Horrible thing. Keep coming up. Mr McConnell. Well it's clear that poverty is the leading force behind the immigration of illegals. Across the border I think the other point that's worth making is that our businesses. You know or really depend put it to the agricultural sector on illegal immigrants. And the latest. Immigration Bill. While it purports to be tough on illegals. Makes some exceptions for every cultural employer so there's. There's a need for better or for worse.

For these folks in some parts of the economy. What role should the Mexican government play in this. Well I think the Mexican government was particularly harsh we say. Courageous and that's that. That's a press conference that it held yesterday criticizing the United States and particularly for charged charging and blaming laying this all the feet of racism in the United States. I mean they have a. They have a responsibility to place their borders just as we have. And I think that they have a particularly porous border with California. And that. That needs to be addressed and in ways that don't simply impugn racism on the part of America. It's in Congress comes back do you think this incident will impact the discussion and. Budget possible legislation. Well what I hope it does. Is ratchet down the volume of this debate. A little bit. There are legitimate issues that opponents of illegal immigration. Have that we all share. But there's been a level of think name calling and then I see this in the debate. That's been destructive.

Washington D.C. Your next Good morning good morning. I was calling about. Yeah. But if you're talking about what the gays in the military and.

So is the court case. OK without the Rico. I was going to go but I don't agree with the Don't Ask Don't Tell I think that if they're doing their job. They're in our country. You know we should get what they do in their personal lives. Because you have people that they expected a bit of. Same thing in the military is a reflection of the things that I think that that is the goal that the policy was intended to achieve. Again a posture of tolerance and. A kind of a. Distancing from the government from someone's personal life. And I think that some of these cases involve people taking this a step further and wanting to to be more open and more. Kind of. Affirming of their lifestyle then and then possibly some of these institutions like the military can afford to permit. Now that I have my cough under control I want to show you the front page of let me see here this is the Baltimore Sun this morning it's a story I'm interested in getting your reaction to it is about. I mean Burger King. And in Baltimore and. A Burger King. Franchise which gave out this coupon. Shannon if you can see it read right here it says. Good for one free box of ammo. With gun purchase or ten percent off.

Is Within an hour this is a piece by Peter Herman within an hour of learning about the coupon from the Baltimore Sun yesterday the Burger King headquarters in Miami. Told the operator of the. Charles and Fayette streets. To go to an office supply store and replace the register tapes as we register tapes that were given to them freely. But the coupon was on it. It's not the image the Burger King would like to be associated with in any way. Said corporate spokeswoman Kim Miller. The president of the Baltimore Police Union officer Gary. McClenney. Said that the ads are particularly disturbing because the continuing violence in Baltimore which explain the continuing violence in Baltimore. Which experiences more than three hundred twenty slangs.

And twelve hundred shootings each year.

Beating of that goes on to say somebody at Burger King must have lost their mind I don't know why we're just not for me. I don't know if I think we have enough. Guns and Ammo out there without. People being able to get them a Burger King. Sticks come from Springfield Ohio next morning. Good morning. I just like to make a statement. And also to ask a question. Maybe of the lady. Reporter. The statement is that no matter how wrong. Mr. Came out of didn't you know what I thought he was. I do believe that the police in that instance and. This and and overreacted. And I just like to ask you a question Is there ever a tie. That you think that the police are wrong because I think they were very wrong and I commend. Mr Clinton President Clinton all the people for calling into question. The hobby. People overreact to the opera and we pay them. If they can't handle the situation.

And they should get out of fashion. Thank you it's good right now I certainly agree with the collar with regard to the need to demand a level of restraint and. Level of responsibility on the part of the police that. Thin blue line that separates us from from. Anarchy at the same time I really think that this. This incident. Highlights the degree to which the that the job that is being asked of these individuals. And the strain. This strange which they're being put under with regard to to controlling immigration into California and other border states of the country. Particularly when they've been. Again. You know. Put on a high speed chase that that went on for some time and. Gotten their their their adrenaline rushing I'm not suggesting. I don't know what happened here it certainly. Appeared to be a great use of force on the part of the police but I'm saying. It's a video tape it's a snapshot of an event. And not the whole story. The color. Mistakenly called your reporting his new citizenship project and again it is where public policy. Small nonprofit nonpartisan public policy group. And how do you interact with journalists. We do we actually interact with journalists and opinion leaders by the facts broadcast we have a long list of people that we fax. Memos to. Little policy papers. Our take on particular issues. Is that it gives me a new phenomenon in Washington. Oh my you know it's. It's appears to be it was a. I think a tactic perfected by our Chairman of our Board Bill Kristol. With his group. The Project for the Republican future they had some success with their health care faxes. A few years back and. We have adopted the tactic it seems to work well we get a little bit of a ripple effect with the media and. Get our message out. You use this as the facts. Not with respect to reporters. Although we do. Look. Low income groups know what's happening and what I have been a Washington through the facts technique and I think it's pretty effective technology.

Unabomber was a sociopath and a hypocrite

And to the West Coast Los Angeles good morning. I have a comment to you. You know about our case I think if they just think of his message as being part of what motivated him. Because there's a central irony in the case and that is that he was against all of that culture that he got caught with this that. At the threat of violence. That his manifesto that published. You know I think that that an irony I think it points out that this is more of a case of the. Of a sociopath than necessarily someone with a message to propose.

A lot of interest in the Unabomber did anything surprise you know I don't. Why are people interested in this. Well you know he's an interesting character I think the best way to look at him is sort of the last holdouts against the dirty. Technology. So it's actors. That's right. You know computers.

Perceived Unabomber Ruby Ridge Connection

To South Carolina good morning where it's nice it's about thirty five miles south of Columbia. Down in South Carolina How big is it. Oh it's small can spend account Paypal slow smile so welcome this morning what's your comment. Well I want to make a comment about they you know bomber same's based on confusion about what happened to him. They talk about the F.B.I.. And how long it took them to get the race to him. Exactly when called by the F.B.I. He was read it out by a predator and his mother who were to raise maybe I got on to him in the first place. In this debate about whether say be issued a white in another way Court. Should have waited another day is kind of. The point he is in fact that there may be I had twenty years to Kate sees the individual. And still would have caught him. Even now if they mean for the fact that he was turning in by some of you don't pay people so that the this debate about whether or not. C.B.S. was wrong or right to wait another day or two seem to be a little ludicrous in light of that when you say. Are you critical of the of the F.B.I. in not being able to catch him earlier. Well. I think they're just like you sound television no other day when they was baiting him people that they pulled over on the side of the road and are. It's pretty clear. There. I mean that we got a problem here in South Carolina with the highway patrolman not knowing what the law is and who's a who's able to enforce the law. Oh I've had some problems with him I say if it's been all over television where this woman was our car bait ever spading take it. Paper route tamely or shot. For failing to stop. For a police officer. I mean you can't lay of things you've got out of hand I mean you know this thing it really be reach for these people were shot. You know that kind of thing is it gets a lot of anger on television and. In the newspapers. But the fact remains paypal are killed every day. By placement all over the kind of free for legal or no reason whatsoever I mean people who fail to stop. Are already tamely shot today of by police for a little more than some traffic violation. And how do you mean how do you know that I mean I guess I need to ask you how do you know that. I ride over here in Springfield and Santa and I know about twenty five miles Wiley of a couple years ago boy was out of the car by a local placement. Over a traffic stop and shot today in film a sign of the road. And that's something I know from personal knowledge I have right here close by. It was also I won't go vision a couple times that are not out there in California where they shot some. There's a trial going on right now in our Los Angeles about. I thank you for Correia an individual or a some kind or you know he was serious or was on pay they he was shot that day and by placement. But because he felt there was a big long chats. And they called he made a parking lot and they ran him a couple times and he would stop. And it was a policeman stand all random away the list was on the national media...

Okay thanks very much. What do you... how do you reckon with that?

Deepak: Well I think it's hard for a lot of white Americans to realize how much it cost long counters with police are a part of the life of a lot of. Minority or city folks. And there's a different. For a lot of. I think for majority of Americans law enforcement is protector. There are tariffs. Civility and safety and for my North Americans it's a hostile force. That's I think responsible for a lot of the tension around us

Any further reaction?

Jessica: Just one. That is that. I think it might do something of a disservice to. Minority Americans to demonize. Law enforcement in this regard. In fact. Minority Americans are disproportionately the victims of crime. And they're disproportionately the victims of the people that are trying to be controlled by law enforcement and. I don't think that they. They all do or should regard. The police as the enemy. Destroyed the fact that the abuses occur.

Detroit Michigan. Yes my neighbors and I the first time I've gotten through to you ever. Welcome thank you are different. So the. Illegal immigrant community. I have an eighty nine no. I mean I'm ninety four cougar that I cannot sustain. At eighty miles an hour worth four hundred miles. These people were supposed to be in an old pickup truck free on an eighty mile to a eighty mile an hour today. Than I've been in a pickup truck at twenty five miles an hour. But. And I will bounce people out. So that's just the difference. I just had to say something about the trick Can I ask you a question about an unrelated topic. Had this is the story we showed earlier to our viewers. About your governor John Engler. It was in this morning's Washington Times and it's talking about the fact that he is on the list of possibilities. To be the vice presidential candidate along with Bob Dole. And it's the story says that there is a speculation that. As the in the wake of the speculation that he is an early favorite to Bob Dole's running mate. Old stories are surfacing about his messy divorce. And his having twice failed physicals. For military service during the Vietnam war. This is a story that apparently was reported last week in The Detroit Free Press. Did you happen to see it. No I don't get the free press because we have a major strike going on here.

So I guess my question to you is. Are you aware of these allegations against your governor and do they matter to you. I'm not aware of them but it seems to be that whatever his previous marital status well. Has no relevance once we got to the. Oh willingness or ability to run. OK or. In the office. Very much. I guess I would ask you both before we leave or what projects you're working on now specifically what you'll be doing in the next several weeks. Well. The new citizenship project. Launched a couple months back. A crime project. Council on Crime in America. Which is a council co-chaired by former education secretary Bill Bennett and former trade General Griffin Bell. And we are taking a new look at the extent of crime violent crime in America and what we can do in our communities to stop it.

And how well you will where you work on that kind of project is it again information or is it more legislation. We are having a series of field hearings in different cities across the country where we really want to look at how law enforcement can cooperate with communities and bring citizens into controlling crowded. Jessica Guevara originally from Fairbanks Alaska. Director of Programs for the new citizenship project. And also at our table. The director of policy for the Center for Community Change. Deepak Bhargava.

What about you. Projects you're working on. Well for the most part will be working on the spending bills that Congress is going to be considering these few weeks months. For fiscal year ninety six which isn't done for fiscal year ninety seven to. Prime get as much money as was with him for for low income. Related Programs they'll be my main. My main task force here. Thank you both for coming by today. Thank you. And speaking of crime we're going to feature on crime. In just a few moments but first let's take a look at some of the recent travels. At the CSPAN school bus.

All right now. When the inventors workshop at inventor place the national Venice Hall of Fame. Above us is the NASA that is whole fame where you see the lives of the inventors who basically changed our lives with done things that have been instrumental in saving lives. And making our lives easier. On the seventy's. Group of Pat attorneys decided that inventors were not given the recognition that they deserve. This country has role models. Entertainers and. Athletes. Really need to look at vendors because inventors. Really have made an impact in society and don't get the recognition.

Interesting in the nationalist Hall of Fame. The original inventors. Who were inducted. You know who they are.

Thomas Edison. You know you know Westinghouse. Carrier. Carrier.

This is you know these people. They were heroes in their day. People looked up to them. Nowadays. Does anybody know who invented fiber optics and I know who invented the respirator these people are people we need to make some household names a body knows who they are because they you know. I look at the guy. Comes here forest bird were invented. The respirator. He tells wonderful stories a wonderful man he should be known for creating something that has save lives or stuffy quality. A woman. Dupont. Who invented. Kevlar which vul professor made out of Kev lard she has done an amazing job. To save lives and. These are the people who should be the heroes. In this world. In addition to some of the other people now as seen heroes. Well every year we have induction ceremony. This year it'll be September twenty first. Here in Akron. People come out for it and it's really moving. It's a moving experience because it's not just another ceremony. But it's sort of like the grab your wards for investors. And behind me. Is actually there is workshop where people get their hands into stuff they can make things they can take things apart. They can explore their own creative thinking. And their own innovative. Problem solving. To help. You know. Get them to feel that they have some great ideas and kids here and adults explore and come away with great ideas. And a good feeling about what they think the inventors. A workshop. And the sea. Dance exactness to me calls them. One of favorites of many people. Which are these. Iron filings. Are Being responding to a magnets. You can really learn how things respond to different magnets. You have a laser heart to heart it's a matter of strings made out of lasers. And you cut your hand through the sort of create sound really. People just are really engaged and then exploring. Also you can take apart a V.C.R.. We can take part of a toaster. Or maybe a computer and then put it back together going another way. That's when people get to see the insides of things. They sort of hidden. All we do is provide our children to me see what's inside how things work. Our job here is two fold. One is to celebrate the success of writers. And to inspire people to be more involved in the event of a process. And then also to really spark. The American ingenuity. We are known because we've had. Intellectual Freedom for so long in this country. We do have a lot of great thinkers we allow people to come with new ideas. And we need to let people know that that's what's so special about this country. That Until recently many countries didn't have that freedom. We say people.

What are your ideas. And if you can make it work. And you can sell it then you can. You can reap the benefits of your success and that's what we're about.

Juvenile Crime

Saturday Journal continues. In our final segment this morning where we talking about juvenile crime what you're looking at on your screen. Is a set of statistics from the U.S. Justice Department about what's been happening. To juvenile crime that's the v line on the top where you see it going up versus. Adult crime in general which has stayed somewhat steady over the years of nine hundred eighty six through one thousand nine hundred four. Louise Cardona. You are thinking a lot about ways to help. Cut back or prevent juvenile crime do you think that these statistics are. Irreversible. I think it's going to keep trending up like this. Well. Yes I do. If from. Legislation. It keeps going the way it is. One of the things that that I've noticed in the work in terms of like legislation has been coming out of the hill. And to the ministration is that this had been sort of like a mechanism that has. Made the problem worse. So for us as they say the trying to push just new legislation the trust of thirteen year olds as adults. What happens is that's been going on for years now when you keep Lauren the a DEA agent and it's you know the young people that you're tried as adults. And so what you're actually contributes in to is to the development of more crime and violence among younger people. Because a lot of times what happens is if a mother you know a criminal enterprise and. My enterprise drives off the energies of seventeen a sixteen year olds and you lock all of them up. I have to go to the next market. Soper for me to you know what I'm operations and I would be the fifteen and fourteen year olds. And so on and so on. So what we're seeing I would have seen at least on the commute that way anyone on the national level is that there's been a lot of bandaid solutions to just try to illustrate just how issue on the carpet. You know just put it behind us and this move on and unfortunately it doesn't work like that. It takes years and years of. Of work and. The answers and. The hopeful solutions.

Come from the community and not from here. Yeah. We have about ten minutes on this topic of juvenile crime if you have some questions for our special guest Luis Cardona please do dial in on this issue. And we'll take a few calls during a relatively brief. It's a segment. You have been involved you say that it's really the community. Rather than the federal government that can supply the answer that you've been involved with a group called the Coalition National Coalition of Barrios. You need us now for those who don't speak Spanish what does that translate into. Neil stands for United neighborhoods. And what are you trying to do with the group. Basically the focus is rebuilding our communities. You know. We've hear so many times the whole thing about the African prover that it takes a whole village to raise a child. Raise a Child and. So many times I just turn around and say Wow Unfortunately the problem is religion we had to rebuild it. You know. So the whole thing in terms of the work we're doing is. How do we redevelop our communities. How do we rebuild our villages because they have been broken down.

And how is your group trying to rebuild. The village as you call it. Well a grassroots effort. Will be Done this is is going directly to to those young people who are disenfranchised and alienated and try to focus on dealing with their issues and perhaps trying to provide them with alternatives to violence. And we've done this to a series of things in the way we would put all these points into. Of the work that we've been doing. Into a peace plan. That we call the so so each I was. Peace plan. And is a National Youth Violence Prevention Initiative and we hope it's something that perhaps the federal government or. Congress will consider implementing is a national model that can be replicated around the country. And the unique thing about the initiative is that. It's focus based on need. Very needs assessments have been done around the country. By the young people themselves through previous piece some is that we had that now concluded to this one here in Washington D.C. were young people who are dealing with this menace were caught up in the crazy life worth of violence and crime in droves and say hey these are the things that I need for me to stay clean. For me to stop killing somebody else. You know for me to to walk in a positive light. And a very briefly what are the things that you've outlined that you think will work. OK. One of the points is the development of community peace agreements which provide. Political or social and economic opportunities to those young people primarily those young people who have been disenfranchised who never have the opportunity to come to the table. Those people out there. Right across the street here from source and quarters. Who are going through these were men this or those young people in Mel pose of those young people and he still lay or. In the Bay Area. You know. In the South Bronx New York. I mean basically bring them to the table and say hey look what we need to provide you with. or Support you with so they may be you know with our assistance. And our help. You know we can we can change things and we can redevelop our communities. That's one point. The second one is to develop and implement and then. Model that can be replicated around the country. And Stokely serve as a catalyst for. National Youth Violence Prevention Initiative and. Work. And what we're saying is that this is something that. Throughout the country. Is working in various different communities right now we have over thirty chapters. Around the country right now. And let me make it clear that we're not saying we're a solution but we're in an effort to reduce who Follett's and to stop our young people from killing one another.

Let's take a call from our audience will come back.

And I think it's more about this Pensacola Florida good morning. Oh yeah my name is Mike. I love the band finds a little cord to reality. In this area that I come from the children. Have almost no recreational facilities like park. That I lived a lot over California and they got really beautiful park. Places kids around here they don't. And they have organized activities and baseball football things such as that.

But it costs money for these kids.

To participate in these programs and quite honestly it's fairly poor community and I think you know Bill Clinton's effort. That he made. You know would put money into like the midnight basketball maybe that might not necessarily be the proper thing to do but. The kids need something to do. He's. right The kids need something that they get to thank you. You know one of things that I have a little story in the talk about. I was and selfies. Here in Washington D.C. when I was getting some guests and I happen to want to cause two little young brothers who had the gas station in the little football uniforms. And they were running for money they were asking for some money and. I said well you know what. I don't have any money on me. But I'll give you some of this Candy I just got. And I won let's OK man you know we really need money and I was like a little needed for so I would have practice as a football practice like yeah we have football practice and we're trying to get to our practice. And we'll have no money to catch the bus to get to our practice. He's insane. Because our coach can only pick us up. On Wednesdays. Because that's the only time. We can get our van. And our parents. Don't have the resources to be able to take us from the house. Drive us to our practice. Is insane so we're already. These young people looking for a ton of those already. But it is just don't have the resources. You go. You go up into Neysa through a neighborhood of Chevy Chase. That isn't the issue. Because you have a coalition of parents who on Monday. We have a certain group of parents to drive a group of young people. To their practice then the next group of parents drive their young people to practice on Tuesday and so on and so on so what's the solution to the story you've told that we were talking about the whole thing of providing those economic and social political opportunities. We put in resources into those communities. So they can focus on creating those alternatives like the gentleman was talking about where will the money come from. That. That's something that is big right now. We're talking about a serious financial crisis that. I know we're dealing with here in Washington D.C. But it's. This money that we can create in our communities. You know. For this piece of it. The D.C. chapter and we were really struggling we're struggling we've been running on a volunteer basis for the last year and a half. And even the mayor here in knowledge is. We run on a shoestring budget. But yet we've been getting all of the business sector involved. Because we've we've brought finally brought home message that says you know what to invest and what we're doing is investing in our communities because Will you do it is actually. Redeveloping and developing. You know the community. In an economic sense because crime goes down. Violence goes down. Business bulls a month prosperity for the community. Next question a lot of that New Jersey. Yes we want to do that in March time Callie Good morning Luis the morning. I was just reading the ad Great Park Press I live in New Jersey. And they had a. Peace in the your views section. And it says that. Everybody has actually ignored the reasons of violent crimes and it's probably. Poverty is really the main link to violent crimes. And it takes that to fix from historical statistics of the United States. And it's said that actually during the Great Depression. The murder rate was a lot higher than it is now. And it just says that racism and poverty. And the form is not easy read. But the latter is poverty. And it just seems that everybody seems to just you know they're not giving money to the social programs are not helping the children. And the other day I saw Les that's a row on C.-SPAN and he said that the actually the way to do it is to make an investment in our in our people and our young people. And it just seems that a lot of these new Republicans are common and they think they're going to change everything. But they're just going back to the same away. Thanks very much our time is short so I want to focus on because he raises the issue of Congress. You said that you want Congress to recognize your program created as a model program how would that work. OK What we're hoping that maybe they consider our peace plan is to some form or legislation. At a congressional forum on Thursday. We had Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton. From D.C. Washington. We had. Congressman idea of the Senate come in from California. And a couple other staff members from Congress who came in a really excited interested and would talk about in terms of the peace plan and. Want to have follow up meanings in terms of hopefully put in some legislation together. And I we've also been in contact with. Congressman Scott. Out of the genius. Who's really interested in. Hoping to put some of this list. Legislation together. When you say that you'd like the Congress to create legislation that would recognize it are you looking for.

in the national attention that would come from this are you also looking for federal dollars. The latter is the most important. You know this work is not about recognition. You know I mean. You know it's not about this is the guy they came. Of a solution. I work is about doing the work and making sure that we keep these kids out of prison. They keep these kids out of mortuaries of the funeral homes or. You know. Just basically focusing on that and make sure they would focus not about recognition. You know. What kind of reception did you get on Capitol Hill. Good reception. The members of Congress who were there. There was. Representatives from the federal government agencies. On the part of the Justice Department homers. We also had people from the local business community. Who came in and spoke about how important it is for the business. To and to invest in this. But also had representatives from the churches. You know because that's that's a big component of the work that we're doing a lot of people FOTA realize that there is a big spiritual big back would see in a lot of our young people. They've lost hope. And. Without this brutal foundation. You can't deal with the daily. Men this. You know you there's something that you had to have as an individual it with a spiritual base. Hopefully you can deal with and that's one of the focus of our work is you know rebuild the nest virtual foundation for the young people that he's cardinal as a regional director here in Washington D.C. of the National National Coalition of Barrios. We need us.

The group and others who are working on grassroots solutions to juvenile violence of. Have been having a national peace summit here in the suburbs of Washington D.C. today is the final day some six hundred participants. Thanks for coming in and telling us about it. Thank you very much. That's it for our program this morning you have a good weekend.